It is common when anyone asserts that some event around Osho was a “device”, a cackle of bloggers immediately assert that to make out these things were devices is but to cover up simply failings on Osho’s part. (For example how often has one heard that the whole Rajneeshpuram experience was a massive device, or on the other hand, a monstrous and catastrophic mistake, and in the case of the latter, that mistake should be laid ultimately at Osho’s door.)
Nonetheless, and let’s be clear, Osho himself definitely considered “devices” legitimate within his work. He talked of “creating situations” within his Budhhafield in multiple ways to further the growth of individual disciples. He often reflected on the devices of the old Zen Masters with great approval in his talks.
It seems unwise to SN to simply excise the whole notion of devices from Osho’s work. But possibly in a more nuanced way there might be room to discuss whether any particular device was, for example, successful or not?
It might also be a view that Osho made mistakes, but also successfully planted devices – they were simply different modalities - and “discrimination” amounts to being able to recognise one from the other.
What think ye, dear SN blogger?!
(thanks Arpana for the idea)
Devices from the master like Osho are like digits of the number lock.
With the time and write climate impossible looking devices have the capacity to open the door of mystery for disciples of generations to come.
Try to be clever and think why not I reduce the number of digits; spend a dollar to buy a Lock and try to open it with the digits of your fancy, most probably it will remain as Contemplation on impossibility!
This is a load of Eastern mumbo-jumbo, Shantam.
Useless speculation, a total waste of time.
Find a good woman – she’ll be more than enough ‘mystery’ for you, sir….
Father Fumble is giving confession one day, when Seamus comes in and tells him that he has been
having an affair.
”I see,” says Fumble, ”but I cannot bless you until you tell me the woman’s name.”
”Okay, Father,” replies Seamus. ”She’s the most gorgeous blonde you have ever seen – and her
name is Pussy Green.”
The next Sunday, Father Fumble is getting ready for mass when a stunning blonde in a tiny skirt
wiggles down the aisle to the front seats.
Father Fumble fumbles for his glasses, slips them on, and takes a good look at her.
”Is that Pussy Green?” he whispers to little Albert, the choir boy.
Albert looks hard this way and that.
”No, Father,” he replies, ”I think it is just the reflection from the stained-glass windows.”
Osho.
Hyajaju.
The Everest of Zen.
Chapter 2.
Osho was way more cunning than the people immediately around him. He made sure of that. Allow me to elaborate. There is intelligence and there is cunning-ness.
Osho was playing “a long game”. He did that in two ways. One by knowing he was playing a long game, and two, by shortening the game of his fellow players even further (all the ‘put everything into now’ malarkey).
One of his favourite heroes was Patton who said, “If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you’ll be amazed at the results.” Even if there were no devices, just by implying on the possibility of devices, people will find them in bucketfuls, everywhere.
Osho was always playing to his audience and he could change mid-stream to adjust to a new audience. He had a bearing and he could direct all paths to it. It’s the old story that once you are the top of the mountain you can see where all the paths go …
Only mind can conceive of no-mind. No-mind cannot conceive of mind. Around Osho there was only one mind, his. His effort was to lockstep his people to his mind and that was what the authorities were afraid of … one, because he was unpredictable, and two, because they thought he could do it. What do you think?
Oh Bravo Shantam.
You’ve managed to fool SD.
He doesn’t realise you’ve written
a parody of Frank parodying you.
Hilarious.
But once you get the lock open, stop fiddling around with the digits.
Bapu,
You sound like another self -appointed wise man who has completely missed Osho`s message and uses Sannyasnews to wipe his bottom with.
Surrender to Swami Rajneesh and he will deliver you the Truth about everything,including black magic.
Listen to the words of the wise man Dhyanraj.
He may look like Neil,from the “The Young Ones” (now “The Old Ones”) with a jokeshop stick-on beard and malfitting lunghi,but you would do well to surrender to him.
He is big in Korea,but then again so are most westerners.
To me Osho was/is the Zen Master par excellence. In his pre-Pune days he played with Indian philosophies/religions, in the Pune1 period he played with the whole world’s mores, but he finished his life in Pune2 talking about Zen. He made ‘his choice’ to go forward with. Once he is seen as a Zen Master then it all begins to make sense. In fact that is where it starts to make no sense at all. It was all nonsense. Devices. But that is the magic of Zen. I am grateful to have been around to be spun even a little by him.
Pa!
Osho was this, osho was that. “Osho was a zen master par excellence.” Hyperbole and wishful thinking, you lil dreamer.
Osho was the best comedian the world has ever seen. Osho was the worst comedian the world has ever seen. Osho’s long beard was proof of his holiness. Osho’s beard was fake, a glue-on. Osho liked crackers. Osho hated crackers. Osho made soup. Osho never made soup. Osho backwards is “oh, so….” [punctuation added for emphasis]
Seemingly as if here on SN, often spiritual royalists dilute Osho and his devices. Perhaps they try to find a compromise between freedom and subservience.
Osho is a genius Rebel not a Priest. In this world all what an enlightened does looks wrong. His goal is freedom; the goal of the world yet is still repression – how will this come together?
Osho is a genius Rebel not a Priest. In this world all what an enlightened does looks wrong. His goal is freedom; the goal of the world yet is still repression – how will this come together?
Preetam, Are you Yoga Preetam, an Indian long time Ashram sannyasin who is doing the translation work?
Osho is(was) a genius Rebel not a priest, does it means no priesthood will grow around the legacy of Osho.
His goal is freedom; the goal of the world yet is still repression…
and where stand disciples….?
O Religious preachers,
For God sake, don´t show to the people glossy prospects of the eco friendly buildings, It could be enough if you could show just one small hut which is not leaking and also is not on the stolen land!
I reckon it would be a good idea for all of you to check out the new movie called Kumare. In essence it is about a fake guru and how even a fake guru can transform lives including the imposter’s. It is all about the power of projection. We see what we want to see. What people see Osho as, ie zen master, charlatan, general crazy charismatic master etc is all a projection. Also his devices and how the Catholic sanyassins can explain away any of Osho’s bufoonary as being a device for one’s awakening. I’m not sure if I agree with BV’s idea that Osho was playing a long game. He was a major player for sure and no doubt cunning at times, yet there was often a massive element of the spontaneous in the way he proceeded in playing the role of master of masters. From a certain perspective everything in life can be viewed as a device working towards some end or other. Much in life is mechanical, yet the spontaneous is always there. Osho was a very savvy chappie and well tuned into both aspects. He could be an ace manipulator yet always wise enough to alllow the spontaneous to unfold in the here and now, a place that requires no cunning or devices to enter, just the guts to let go into it.
Incidently, last evening I had a good chat with a young man. who asked me what does it mean to really let go. I replied, letting go means to have the courage to completely enter this moment, thereby dropping the past and future. In your esteemed opinion did I supply a good answer?
Lokesh says:
>> In your esteemed opinion did I supply a good answer?
The only way to know is by giving the same answer but using different words. What does entering the moment mean? There is mollusk (with a brain) that for the early part of its life moves around but at some point attaches itself to a rock and drops its brain. If you don’t intent to move, you don’t need a brain. If you don’t intent to move to ‘another position’ is space or time then you don’t need the mind.
Be here now, might sound great … but for how long? If we were to reduce the animus to its primary component and give it a word … that word would be “agitatous”.
lokesh, another answer could be:
when you think about the future or the past,when do you do it?
or
can you think about the past and future anywhere else but in the present?
I don’t really agree with the idea of real masters and fake masters .
acting the master is an artistic endeavour,in that it takes a performer and an audience.
its an act.a piece of real-life theatre,a real-time play that some energetically inclined humans bipeds do for the benefit of an in unison with other humans.
like any art ,what is good or which style,way or `device` `works` is wide open.
does rafael or banksy do it for you?
if you ask ravi shankar about the sex pistols he will say it is not real music.
if you ask johnny rotten about ravi shanker ,he`ll probably gob in your face(or come up with some sanskrit rhyming slang).
all over the world there is the idea of “wise fools”
once you have linked and entertained the co-existence these two polarities for yourself in one person.
as in crazy wisdom,rascal saint,zorba-buddha,beyond good and evil,`i am laotsu and ghengis khan both`,
etc etc
then the game of finding the `pure one` is well and truly up and we are in the realm of the genuine fake.
in art terms,that means you can use any colour anywhere,it will be pretty far-out at times but it might end up a bit of a mess,too……
telling jokes,spinning tall yarns about his childhood , sexlife and pastlife blasted off his box,dressed up as a holyman telling sexist racist jokes and cruising in his 93 rolls royces and all the really scandalous stuff ,etc etc etc in a self-proclaimed circus?
device
or just vice?
from the perspective of no-mind,
never mind,it doesn`t matter….
one way or other,we are all “fans” here!
nobody likes all the creations of any particular artist,even the best and favourite ones.
no problem.
and guys like brian,the three stooges,kumare,egghead tolle,barry long,lbw papaji ,ram d`ass whatever.
all like singer songwriters doing their stuff.
if you insist on there being some “objective” measurement for all of them,(which is nevertheless subjective.)
then you are probably in zen-koan land.
and you`ll never get any sense out of those zen guys!
and in the same vein,
something I`ve mentioned before .
osho was like jimi hendrix.
whether you think he was a god taking us all to the land of the new rising sun, or just a flamboyant waster popping pills and dragging a bunch of mugs with him on the way to hell……
maybe you still listen to his albums, or sold or lost them long ago….
or you still have his pictures on your wall in your room or took them down a while back….
no matter…
the electric guitar will never be the same instrument again !
Good posts, Frank. I’ve always felt chuffed about meeting Jimi when I was 18 in the Beatle’s Apple HQ. I made a bit of a fool of myself, but hey, it was the sixties and yes Hendrix blew all the fuses when it came to exploring new musical avenues. As it happens I play quite a few remixes and edits of Jimi’s work at some of my gigs. And the band played on.
BV enquires, ‘What does entering the moment mean?’
My answer will differ with what moment you catch me in. Right now I say that it means being present in whatever you are doing, from washing the dishes to writing a response on SN. Can’t help but notice that your average human actually thinks they are the mind. If you remain rooted in the moment mind shuts down, because when thought has no customers it vanishes. For most this is a frightening idea for obvious reasons.
You know the cliches, use the mind, don’t let the mind use you etc. Doesn’t mean they aren’t right on the money. I enjoy the mind as a wondeful tool, switching it off when not required is the trick. People who are completely identified with the mind like to feed it with nego crapolla, like TV news etc. the programmers know this and are constantly on the lookout for the worst news possible. Klingons rape babies, while drug crazed hippies inhale sarin gas at drug-fueled slurp orgy etc. Never watch TV myself, so much else better and more creative to do.
There is something about the positive vibe that frees one from the clutches of the chattering mind. I like dancing to loud msic with groovy people. Still one of the best ways to slot into the cellular-organic dimension naturally. I always dig a good dancefllor when the shift happens that lifts the dancers out of the personality into the purely energetic.
Frankie boy says -
“I don’t really agree with the idea of real masters and fake masters .
acting the master is an artistic endeavour,in that it takes a performer and an audience.
its an act.a piece of real-life theatre,a real-time play that some energetically inclined humans bipeds do for the benefit of an in unison with other humans.
like any art ,what is good or which style,way or `device` `works` is wide open.”
Certainly Kumare shows role of guru to be show biz and performance art, a device to reveal all the projection that goes on.
Fake or real it’s all a device. But “for the benefit of” who? If the teacher comes from love it might benefit and help free the student. If it comes from his own self-aggrandisement and egoic delusions then it may keep him stuck and more lost. Ultimately there’s learning in both, but judgement in the form of discrimination, let’s us know what’s good for us and helps us on our journey.
I learned that Jean de Ruiter goes hunting, shooting game. Doesn’t seem to bother some people (I would say they’re in denial) it’s unacceptable to me and a sign of egoic delusion, not that I cared for him anyway.
Seems life is a pair o’ ducks (paradox) and quackers. At the energy or cosmic level, life (shit) just happens beyond ideas of right and wrong as the RUMInator says, with the idea of freewill as perhaps just another add on.
At the earthly level we choose and get feedback from life. How is this working for me? Does it bring me more peace, joy, love etc or is it a crock of s#%t, pardon my french.
So yeah nothing matters…and everything matters.
I’ll Meet You There
by Rumi
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing
there is a field. I will meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase each other
doesn’t make any sense.
You smooth talking rascal….
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I will meet you there.”
Bring protection.
LOL
its a 13th century ode to dogging.
and ol` rumi managed to pass it off as mystic poetry.
he was good.
i don’t know how he got away with it.
i guess there must have been a few mullahs get mullered up in that field,too.
I’ve posted that before Frankie, and you used exactly the same line then.
Come on!!!
We hope for better of you.
Let’s all be here now….too late you missed it.
“I replied, letting go means to have the courage to completely enter this moment, thereby dropping the past and future. In your esteemed opinion did I supply a good answer?”
Guruji we don’t judge here so any combination of letters will do.
Gurudom’s answer 2day…
Letting go means relaxing into the now, being with what is.
dominic says:
>> Letting go means relaxing into the now, being with what is.
What is is always what is, what changes is the way it is experienced.
In Osho’s way of being … once you have found the inscape … the trick is to hold the consciousness ‘on the border’ … when with the eyes closed, not to be looking ‘in or out’ … and when with the eyes open, to be looking ‘in and out’ at the same time.
http://andrewcohen.org/blog/apology
Just came across this link at facebook.
Really interesting!
Yeah really interesting Shantam. I recently had the opportunity to speak to Swami Arun about problems that I have with people’s egos, especially the men’s. I don’t remember if Arun answered my question, but I was talking about this to a friend and he said that he heard Arun say that everytime he gets back to Nepal, after his travels, he has to spend the first week dealing with people’s egos whether damaged, or frayed, or overextended.
A. Cohen says, “Enlightenment has always been and always will be about transcending the ego.”
I disagree. Ego cannot be transcended anymore than sex can be transcended. But it can be held in check, and like anything else, it can be a tool to be used when needed. Personally I like the idea of occasionally putting one’s self aside and allowing something bigger to work through… But transcendence? No.
Transcendence, Transfiguration, isn’t the content of those words “conquer”. Guess our Human problem is more – the shift must be always a great or immense.
It’s like in this Cohan link, again he is asking for better and more. This greed eats the food of ten Mothers whom have no time for Transcendence… if they aloud to live in peace they are a natural transfiguration. Perhaps better starting a little bit lower with the realization? At a reality with understanding the “Body Temple” needs peace to grow high.
To me responsibility is the respect for worldly freedom of other’s life. From there much more will be possible, good to start at our material reality and a little bit of truth, so far my standpoint.
Hell of a leap from, ‘
‘cant transcend your ego,’
which means, you cant,
to ego cant be transcended.
Bit egotistical if you ask me.
(._.)
Interesting as a argument but not valid as an exercise.
‘My ego’ is created by ‘you’, meaning ‘the other’.
When a child is born it cannot separate itself from the world. At some point it acknowledges ‘the other’ and soon after that (but only after) it begins to see ‘itself’ as separate from ‘the other’ and that is the first step of self-acknowledgment (self-knowledge) which never finishes (unless the mind becomes closed through belief, or some other means).
It was ok for Osho to say that he didn’t need disciples, but without disciples, we wouldn’t be talking about him today …
I really need to see (experience) a transcended ego before I can accept it as a reality that can be worked with and passed on. In my experience, everytime I try to put myself aside, others see it as a weakness and jump in the created space.
Again, in my experience, the only way to safeguard one’s self from too much ego is, discipleship (i.e. accepting that there is someone, or something, that is bigger than the self).
Well as long as it makes you happy.
andrew cohen here
i would like to apologise on behalf of my kosher food company specialising in ego-free products which has,as many have continuously claimed,including my mother, been marketing pork pies with lashings of ego from day one.
I have finally realised a simple truth.that it is impossible,even for a ham actor,to manufacture pork pies without some hog content.
I apologise for being such a boar
and for all you customers who bought a pig in a poke and cast your pearls before swine,
don`t worry,i am going on holiday,and when its all calmed down,
I will be back with a new improved product
” andrew cons` horseshit pies,now with 100% more extra added ego”
My Green Curry Haiku (self.haiku)
by El_Guapo_Gordo
You make my head sweat.
Tomorrow, I won’t forget.
The exit will burn.
Nice one frankie.
Thx for bringing home the bacon and the customary SN ritual slaughter. (Hey it’s a god eat god world, deal with it!) Tough job but…
As AC’s mum says..
“He’s not the Messiah. He’s a very naughty boy! Now, piss off!”
What a wiener. What a pork chop. What an oinker. What a pinky. What a perky. What a sw….
He’ll be bacon a minute though, high on the hog again…
Interestink Shants.
AC – abusive, narcissistic, control-freak for people with yearning disabilities ? You decide.
We at gurubusters are pessimystic that redemption is at hand and that a softer humbled butterfly will emerge. He’ll be back faster than you can say ‘retreat schedule’, with a new improved messiah complex.
How will his sheeple “transcend the ego” now, perhaps ubermensch Wilber will step in and shepherd them over the cliff. Hope springs..
Poor old ego gets such a bad rap.
Infamy, infamy! they’ve all got it in for ‘me’. Someone’s always trying to transcend, hit me with a zen stick, use devices, or kill me. More militaristic male violence than call of duty black ops 2. When all I ever needed was you know… a hug (and maybe one of shants’ complete tantra massages … oh yeah baby).
It’s good, but it would have been better if he’d made a dick joke at the end. He takes himself very, very seriously!
I’ve transcended sausages for over forty years now, but am still puzzled by the enigmatic frozen beef pie. It is an ego trip to say the ego cannot be transcended. Of course it can. For simple instructions on how to not do this please send $500 dollars to UBS Account number 65456312666 along with a plain white envolope with your address clearly printed on it. The futre is here now.
You silly soul sage. What a bargain! I paid $5000 for some dicksha but this is the one, i know it. Transzendance here i come. Woot woot!
I’m high on hopium.
Yours
A. Seeker (one born every minute)
My sannyasnins My sannyasins my sannyasins..
The person who was saying it is no more…
Sorry to hurt religious feelings, He is every where..the way soon Nelson Mandela will be everywhere!
We’re just messing with you. Everything is everywhere. Or nowhere. I forget.
‘Device’ is one of those weasel words like surrender. Doublespeak used to bamboozle and manipulate you. A portmanteau of devil and ice. Never trust it. Unless it involves nudity of course.
Keep calm and Osho on.
Here at SN we dont shirk from asking the hard questions.
So why are sooo many ‘teachus’ jewish? Oy vey!
In almost every field of human endeavour, barring manual of course, relative to the percentage of population, jews faaar outstrip any other racial group.
Clearly they are the chosen people. Just hard facts for these pc times.
Here we’re concerned with gurudom. The most popular name Cohen (like our ‘smith’) means priest.
You heard the one about the Jewish mother who ran along the beach shouting, “Help, help, my son the doctor is drowning!”
There seems to be a lot of innate talent in the jewish genome but also the familial pressure to be someone. What greater someone than a guru, i mean look at jesus, messiah complex or what… talk about chutzpah.
What does our illustrious panel of cut and uncut ‘members’ and Talmud scholars think?
Mazel Tov
Weren’t the Jews not captured by Babylon and persuaded during prison writing the Babylonian Talmud? Interesting which structure stands behind the Jewish imprisonment because this Structure of repression still is in charge and running our History by the same tools.
Death doesn’t kill the Buddhas, it simply takes their wings away!
Or..?
What is Spirituality?
It is a state of contentment. For example you are above 50. You have a faithful partner who is still capable of providing marital bliss.
You have children who are happility settlled in their professions and personal lives.
You don’t pay rent or mortgage, but live in your own house with trees and a garage.
And you have found a perfect technique of meditation, and once in a while you look at the sky with sheer graitude.
With rough estimate, there are 300 millions such people in India alone!
Straight out of the Readers’ Digest!
Btw, how come you’re not one of that happy band, apparently so favoured by both ‘World’ and ‘Existence’?
Haven’t found “a perfect technique of meditation” yet? Shame on you, sir!
Tell us, please, Shantam…Where did it all go so terribly wrong?!
(Was it all Amrito’s and Jayesh’s fault? Better tell Swami R, he’ll know what to do (but don’t give him your bank details, ok?).
Spirituality is the Meeting Place with God.
Man, that sounds horrible. That sounds like complacency and cowardice to me.
Satya deva, i am a person who will burn his head in shame than to live luke warm spirituality.
With the grace of God, i have enough happiness according to middle class measurements, discontentment too, in the same proprtion.
“You know what, our master is so powerful almost like an atom bomb.” One monk was saying to the press.
And he added further, It is his grace that in our ashram rice gets cooked in 90 seconds, at other places it takes 18 minutes!
Mmmm, that would appear to indicate your penultimate post was profoundly ironic then, Shantam…
Please confirm or deny!
Now, where exactly is this “discontentment” of yours, Shantam?
Not the ashram stuff (please)…
Can you pinpoint exactly where in your life you’re ‘unhappy’?
If not, well, you’re sort of, ‘doomed’, mate!
I can answer that.
Where I am unhappy:
1) My dick is too small and I don’t get enough sex.
2) My hair is brown. I wish it were infrared or at least ultra-violence.
3) People argue a lot about Osho, and it makes me feel stupid.
4) I like to push people onto the ground and laugh at them but I can’t because they’re fragile and I might hurt them which I don’t like.
5) Pi has an infinite number of digits. That’s just bad planning, God.
6) Apples. Actually, no, those mostly make me happy. Sorry.
Hope this helps. Nasty Namastes all up in yo grill.
My last post was ironic. Seems like i stitch only such kind of words.
There was definately one faliure.
I should have ended the last sentence with exclmation mark(!) rather than full stop.
Please see it in this context.
Sorry to disturb..but to the subject.
Ultimately everything is a device. I am sure all of you see your own life like that…?
It does not matter if osho or universe or destiny or karma or our mechanical behaviours is behind it.
But we do not need to be helpless Muppets about events happening to us.
However
we sanyasins, me I as individuals make same robotic steps in our life like everybody else ( love, friends, money etc). As a (even a loose community) we do make same idiotic steps and robotic moves as everybody else. We also have same “dreams” building better world like it was a n effort trying ecological model community in Rashneespuram and spiritual etc model community in Rashneespuram, the failing, then osho dying and puuna2 with it’s ‘dreams” ..now Resort is the dream for spa and meditation and other osho places are not so different: they are all centres, holydays with meditation for a week in the summer.. That seems to be the vibe right now; people want to keep their comfortable lives, normal work and steady relationships and get some inspiration in their holydays. There is nothing wrong with that. On the contrary it looks more grounded. It’s a device too I suppose.
I am tempted to think osho – at least as a philosophy professor – knew a lot how religions evolve. Further more he definitely knew how individuals evolve, and also he actually had a lot of his own experience how group evolves..(these are rational explanations). Just to be grounded of course he did not know actual actions people would make, but perhaps he did have a clue of the process how community/religion evolves.. His whole philosophy is about accepting life as it comes.. That is what we are learning too..?so, device is device: every situation. Love, disaster, serenity. what can I learn from it, how can I see my self..I have not met a sanyasin who does not see his or her life from that perspective..
Fresch says:
>> I am tempted to think osho – at least as a philosophy professor – knew a lot how religions evolve. Further more he definitely knew how individuals evolve, and also he actually had a lot of his own experience how group evolves..(these are rational explanations).
Evolution is not a gradual process. Seemingly unstable systems suddenly become stable. It’s called ‘jump evolution’. Rajneeshpuram did not evolve. It was a jump.
The next step may come out of this, but it will not look like this.
Good point Varti.
Device is so good when I am in deep shit; like what the hell happens, I am not in tune with existence, where are my blind spots? it already gives me dignity and strength to get out of the victim trip. The difficulty is when life is going beautiful, well or comfortable. how to expand the beauty without clinging or trying obsessively staying high etc..
dear fleschpot,
you ask:
“when life is going beautiful,well or comfortable,how to expand the beauty without clinging or trying obsessively to stay high etc”?
I would say:you cannot.
as soon as the idea comes into your head to expand it(extend it?),that is the moment that the high has begun to fade and the `clinging` has started.
maybe the difficulty is caused by having the idea that you must stay high all the time. that you can stay permanently “one-up” on life.
in fact, wanting to stay high all the time may be like being a drinker who doesn’t want to have a hangover !
a questionable idea!
possible choices:
*keep drinking and then battle through the hangover,then hit the bottle again later. (binge-drinking)
*carry on drinking and avoid the hangover by drinking right through it. (addiction)
*stop drinking (recommended)
You sound like you might be giving yourself a hard time
for not fitting with your idea of going with the flow.
Definitely stop giving yourself a hard time.
(n_n)
So, my difficult device is that when my high-energy starts to down to the valley I try to cling with it in every possibly way; I just never relax to the valley voluntarily.
So there comes the horrible suffering, not letting go (energy, people, friends, lovers, money, prestige…=ego), so then the pain comes. And if I cannot enter my pain, change does not come, but more suffering until I just have to let go. in a way existence takes care of it, even if I cannot.
Fresch, can you complete (and remember) this well-known phrase or saying?:
‘What goes up, must **** ****’
Existence needs your co-operation. Can you gently embrace whatever you’re feeling, as difficult as it is, without the pressure to change?
As if an upset child comes to you and you keep saying, “go away, i only want good feelings, you’re not welcome”. The child will get more upset or go underground into despair and loneliness.
Sometimes sannyas looks like it’s all about partying and getting high.
Using some catharsis and body energy and group techniques to release so as to get high. But this cycle can be addictive like anything else.
More about loving yourself than trying to change yourself or get high, though nothing wrong with that as long you’re not trying to avoid.
I agree with you life is the guru. Whatever devices Osho used, he is gone. Life has plenty more to offer.
Besides too much corruption and flaws have been exposed in so many guru/disciple relationships (usually their main device was the one in their underpants!) that it’s lost it’s value to me, if it ever had any.
Fresch says:
>> So, my difficult device is that when my high-energy starts to down to the valley I try to cling with it in every possibly way; I just never relax to the valley voluntarily.
Have you noticed how dogs are always in the same mood, and always happy to see you. Unless they are ill, they never say, “Not today mate, I’ll see you tomorrow.” Your answer lays in K9 psychology. These days the hospitals actually advice old people to have dogs because they help to keep them sane.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351526/Glastonbury-Bands-beer-baby-bumps-blazing-sunshine-Glastonbury-festival-goers-strip-rain-clears-sun-comes-out.html
we sannyaisns have always spoken in energy terms. So any one can tell me, what kind of energy these people are radiating.
At least for my eyes, energy is more real and alive than the so called Mansoon, New Year and winter festivals organised by international creative team of meditative seekers from around the globe gathered for their inner transormation using the most scientific meditation techniques developed by the contemprary spirutal mystic!
Just been watching the stones at glasto, shants. Biggest crowd ever.
Feels like pencil-thin mick jagger could still have his pick of young groupies at age 70.
Some people love these large gatherings. Looks like fun, but transformation of consciousness, communion … no I don’t think so for the most part. Just entertainment and/or getting out of it, which is ok but not my cuppa.
Tom dick and dominic baba…if one can ( an adult like us) somehow connect with the child within and live like one, there is no need of any separate spirituality. Where ever you are and with whoever you are it becomes a spiritual communion.
This idea needs explaining in more detail, Anand.
How, for example, would one do that in an ordinary daily life, eg as an office worker, teacher, social worker, market researcher, policeman, soldier, systems analyst, town planner, civil engineer, coal miner, scientist, journalist, public relations person, tv or radio newsreader, doctor, dentist, optician, banker, business executive, accountant etc.etc?
How does connecting with “the child within” help someone carrying much responsibility, for example? Or are you referring to one’s life outside ’9-to-5′?
Or indeed, is such a question largely irrelevant to most sannyasins as they tend not to have conventionally ‘responsible’ jobs?
I think I might know what you’re getting at, but such an idea can so easily be misinterpreted by any tendency – rather strong in many sannyasins (but not me, of course) – towards remaining a ‘puer eternus’ (eternal child), a ‘Peter Pan’ who refuses to ‘grow up’. In other words, it can become a blueprint for ‘galloping immaturity’.That’s why a proper explanation is required, if possible, please (ie preferably understandable by anyone, not just ‘us’)!
I will give it a try..To explain it in few words Child is TOTAL and PLAYFUL in whatever he is doing. And at the same time he is mindful of his parents because he needs the necessary nourishment for his survival. But he is not conscious of his behavior.
Doing the same thing consciously one becomes child like. be total and playful in what ever you are doing. At the same time mindful of your survival game. Spirituality is saying the same thing ” Life is only a drama and the earth is a vast stage and whatsoever you are doing is nothing but playing a game..”
I tried to separate my life from 9 to 5 vs the rest, but it didn’t quite work that way. Sannyasin can be in any of the professions you mentioned and still be able to deliver the best out of his/her profession to others and at the same time be child like.
Life starts where fear ends. If I have to add another quality to child likeness, it will be FEARLESSNESS . The dude who is putting the super power Govt in the corner can’t do it without this quality….
Fearlessness? What exactly does that mean to you, AN? Would it not be true to say that we need a bit of fear to protect ourselves in what is in some places a very dangerous world? I have a couple of new Siamese kittens in my garden right now. My big black female cat does not like them. She has claws like razors and if the kittens get too close to the big cat she hisses and lashes out at them. The kittens have learned through experience to treat the big cat with extreme caution, a caution that is tempered with fear, and hence their beautiful blue eyes remain in their sockets. If a person were to live without fear in this world I reckon it would not take long for them to end up in serious trouble. Fearlessness somehow has managed to get a spiritual rep in the spiritual warrior department. I reckon in most cases its hype.
Sorry, for interfering SD, isn’t it not another spiritual confusion? Is the spiritual Inner Child not just explained much to profane?
An inner Child maybe has the spiritual roots by the Vedas. The Veda talks about the great embryo to me the realizing of Brahman. This embryo of self-realization produces a “Child” of awareness, “Child” of Brahman our truth, perhaps. This “child” as a worldly expression perhaps can be a perfect enlightened Master, innocent rooted within Brahman.
Guess we only have communication problems.
I see your point but a little general and idealistic.
My inner child, sensitive feeling self, is telling me what environments it likes to be in. For example it doesn’t like tube travel much or very large crowds.
It is the authoritarian adult (aka spiritual ego) that says, “well if you were really spiritual, then you’d love it everywhere.”
Kind of oughtism which generally begins with “if” word, an idealized fantasy, which actually disconnects you from the “child within” and it’s needs.
Nice try though
When I call you the buddhas, it is not a metaphor. I really mean it – and you have to drop your suspicions about yourself. You cannot accept the idea of being a buddha, because you know that you smoke cigarettes. Now poor Hasya is trying to drop cigarettes. I have informed her not to drop it because there is no need to go into unnecessary trouble. She was even taking medication to try and overcome the withdrawal symptoms.
In my buddhafield just smoking cigarettes cannot disturb your buddha nature. If such a small thing disturbs the buddha nature, it is of no worth. Just think about it… such small things. And these are the things which make you think, ”How can I be a buddha?” Your reasons for not being a buddha are simply mediocre: because you have a wife, or because you have a girlfriend… A buddha with a girlfriend is simply inconceivable.
Osho.
Hyakajo.
Ch. 4
Lie down and Witness
He was using nitrous oxide to challenge the notion of what enlightenment means, being a budda means; and testing his enlightenment.
Sorted. Problem solved.
a non-smoking Buddha will still have better-smelling breath than a Buddha with a mouth like yesterday`s ashtray!
I was just wondering what it would be like if hardcore hindu yoga caught on in London.
“alright,yogi? i`m just poppin down the naga`s head for a couple of pints of me own piss ”
“bloody hell,mate,you`ve been caning it every night this week,you must be totally naga`d”
Arpana says:
>> He was using nitrous oxide to challenge the notion of what enlightenment means, being a budda means; and testing his enlightenment.
Sorted. Problem solved.
I occasionally read thru the Notes of a Madman (great book by the way, very brave of him) … and I can categorically say that he was using nitrous oxide because he liked it.
I’ve read that and I remember so vividly how often he mentioned the mantra Ohm Mani Padme Hum.
ohm mani padme hum..
that’s a high voltage mantra,for sure.
When interviewed in TV while in prison he said he was enjoying himself.
He said he experienced physical pain which is a physical sensation, so why would he not experience pleasure, enjoyment, which in this case would be also a physical sensation.
Duh. I forget, what was the problem that needed solving? Oh, yes, everyone thinks drugs are bad. That is a big problem. Haaahahahahahahaha.
Maybe he was using nitrous oxide because it was fun and he liked it. That’s sort of what he kept telling us to do, isn’t it? Have fun and enjoy? He always said he was human, why does everyone have such difficulty accepting it?