thats pretty funny…lol
I would have thought if you are there, it is better to go in and do some meditation.
what if he was banned?
But you may be right, despite so much controversy regarding OIF and the Osho Resort, I would still love to sit inside and meditate.
Its a strange dilemma, either choosing willfully to be not banned from the space Osho was present most of his life or being banned and taking Osho to new places with freedom?
Has anyone ever searched google blogs and “osho meditation resort”, you’ll find the experience of many newcommers very interesting and not what we’d expect…
“I want to remain part of the marketplace. And this ashram is run almost as part of the marketplae. That’s why Indians are very annoyed- they cannot understand. They have known ashrams forcenturies,but this ashram is beyond their comprehension. They cannot think that you have to pay to listen to a religiuos discourse. They have always listened free of charge-not only free of charge, but after the discourse the ashram distributes prasad, food and sweet. Many go to listen to the discourse not because of the discourse, but for the prasad.
Here you have to pay. What am I doing? I want it to be absolutely a part of the marketplace, because I want my sannyasins not to move into the monasteries. They have to remain in the world. Their meditation should grow in the world, their meditation should not become escapist. So whatsoever peace you are finding here, you will be able to retain anywhere you go. There will be no problem, not at all. I have been managing things in such a way that all that can disturb you anywhere
else is present here!”. OSHO
Very beautiful quotes Kartar.
And as far as I know, Osho Meditation Centers outside of Pune still charge a fee for entrance, meditations, dicourses etc. Osho Tapoban, Osho Dham, Osho Nisarga…etc (and they are run by Indians and Nepalis).
Even the meditations here in Canada, we are charging a $5 fee per meditation and more for full-day events.
So, I know you display the quote to somehow portray Sw. Keerti and the other Indians (Nepalis etc) whom are in conflict with Pune as the ones Osho describes above—but as far as I know, nationality is left out the door when you take Sannyas.
Osho says a meditation should be absolutely part of the marketplace, but I dont believe he has ever mentioned turning himself, the movement, meditation, commune into a commodity?
Can anyone expand?
This guy in the picture is Harideva (Californian). He is banned by the Ashram so he could not go inside anyway.
He used to ride a motorbike and have lots of girlfriends in Pune one, a real hedonist from what appeared to be a wealthy background.
He sort of organised things in later times, or did, like camps in Goa, Reunions in California, etc. but was seen by OFI as some kind of competitor, so hence banned. I think he also criticised them in public forums.
Like many others, he sometimes seems to miss that Osho is about going within, and doing something about the ego.
Harideva certainly had, and looks like he still has, an ego of some size, he was known in the seventies for hubris. One could ask why he has never chosen to address this, after all he has been around the master’s work for many years?
I wonder who Osho would have energy for.
The rebels who are out there doing and being all the wrong things,
or the spectators sitting back safely making commentaries and asking clever questions?
Harideva is perfectly Harideva.
Heraclitus is perfectly Heraclitus.
No reason for them to be compared, but it’s possible it now happens.
yea Heraclitus you seem to know the dirt on everyone lol!!
The policy of Osho International is to ban people who publicly critize them. What a good idea! I will immediately share this idea with the American government.
I am sure that other governments would also also be interested to hear about this idea – except China and other dictatorships, who already succesfully practice this policy and put dissidents in jail.
Maybe agood idea would also be if the resort in Pune can have it’s own jail,. Maybe Jayesh and Amrito will find this a good idea. They can even force people to meditate and be alone by putting them into the Osho Resort Jail.
Maybe the US goverment can even ban Osho International from the US as Osho critize the US government.
The Flower has disappeared and the Fragrance is been propagated, sold!?
Will we ever come to our own Flowering ??
do you know harideva was the first to use the name ‘osho’ for rajneesh? that osho served him tea? that they drank wine together?
he is a wild man and people like dr amrito are scared of him, as well they should be. the ‘inner circle’ are business people, not meditators.
which is fine, for what it is. osho himself unbanned hd whenever he was banned.
osho would have energy for ..all inclusive.
if osho was a holiday firm..
Osho travel.. all inclusive.
that would be a selling point.
the comparrison is your consequence.
No energy for Ronald Regan.
Only for the ‘Chosen Few’ – His ‘people’.
All inclusive feels good, but I don’t see it.
Heraclitus knows who (many) is missing Osho.
Smiles for you (your consequence)
>>>that would be a selling point.
Osho is Free! Even for idiots?
many are missing you say
infering that you are not missing.
the idea that I am right and I know it to be true is partly the reason for all this..
a handfull of sannyasins in positions of power laying their trip on everyone.
my position here is to aid the removal of any kind of control by a few people attempting to control osho for thier own power seeking and financial gain.
I also don’t see these people as missing or wrong or the enemy ..in fact I see them as friends and lovers .. just that they would benefit from taking a back seat and letting go ..and looking in ….
are you one of the handfull garimo.?
I thank you for the smile although a smile can be the mask to disguise many emotions.
best wishes to you garimo.
garimo // Feb 5, 2009 at 1:53 am
>>>that would be a selling point.
who is this idiot?
an idiot is someone that thinks different things to me ..
an idiot is someone who is not as far along the path as me…
an idiot is someone who is looking at the path and thinking shall I get on the path…
that idiot is you.. and me!
Follow along Swami.
I haven’t yet said anyone was missing anything.
But do look close at the words and who did.
I also didn’t write the title at the top photos exhibited here. Please look there too…
I have made comments on both of these things though.
Are you not having fun?
>>>if osho was a holiday firm..
>>>Osho travel.. all inclusive.
>>>that would be a selling point
If Osho were a travel angency… then we WOULD need a trademark!
.I am having fun!
we are indeed a travel agent! you an me…
come to me and go to you ..
and what a voyage..x
this comment is relevant here too:
They say hundreds of thousands visit OIMR (resort) every year. They say its been much since Osho was in the body.
But, disney land has millions of people visit every year and does that make a huge movement for Disney so that people who go their create mini-disney lands for themselves at home? No.
I have the impression that those orange people who were around Osho (few comparable to the proporrted large numbers now–who knows) had a larger exponential impact for Osho than the thousands that go now. Its simply a Disney Land for many, a vacation spot.. But even Disney land won’t ban you if you are critical of them..
In those beautiful books and darshan diaries Osho used to tell everyone who came to the ashram to start a meditation center back home. “You just start one…”
I think very soon we may see Osho Centers, but they will be more like franchises upholding the rules and regulations of the mother corporation.
But why so? Why can’t the wildfire remain wild? Osho was one wild man, and now to even wear his Mala inside the resort is considerred rebellious. In india I wore it everywhere except the place where it was invented…what an ironic situation!
And some will say…”you just go in and dont be concerned about the outside”—unfortunately out is in.
“I have the impression that those orange people who were around Osho (few comparable to the proporrted large numbers now–who knows) had a larger exponential impact for Osho than the thousands that go now.”
I think you are right Amrito, but I think this is just one of those mysteries we may never understand.
Maybe lots of old souls get born to be with the great Buddha when he is alive.
I think it is also significant that the era of the ‘Orange People,’ 1971-1985 is not much more than one generation after the second world war. The trauma of that war was passed down a generation and that is why so many lost souls needed to become sannyasins. And maybe many of those lost souls had committed terrible crimes in their past life in that war so needed to expiate those crimes through meditation.
I agree it is funny about the mala. There are lots of later discourses where Osho appears to downgrade sannyas initiation and the mala. Still if someone wants to wear the mala, it seems odd to tell him not to. I just wear mine under my clothes everywhere I go and that is what I would do if I was visiting Pune.
Malas were worn in Pune in Osho’s last months. If he had really wanted people never to wear them on the campus, he could have “ordered” this.
(Just as he “ordered” the dropping of the red/orange clothes in 85)
My criticism on Pune Resort is one- there is no main support, the support on meditation! No one seems to know anything. Maybe because they don’t meditate! I thought so! Actually, some guys that work there look very angry and irritated! Well, at least it was my experience with some.
Nevertheless, I loved the place, I loved it because of Osho and His energy and it was my dream come true to sit in his bedroom. I didn’t even care about those stupid remarks on mala. Once, I wanted to translate the group and I was told unless you take off your mala you cannot participate. I said why? “Because Osho said to ware it only in your meditation”. Ha ha ha and here I was just out of Samadhi , standing near Buddha Grove trying to get into inner journey group! Then the strategy changed-apparently now Osho says that you cannot ware it in Pune Resort full stop!
I did say to the guy, though, that Osho never told me this, so I will be wearing my mala.
And, now, when I choose where to go I will not go to Pune. I will go where my heart feels at home, where I feel love for Osho and feel Osho! And there are so many places like this!
Osho is free! And not only by the gateless gate! He is everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chetna wrote of Pune
“No one seems to know anything.”
Osho said in Hassidism,The Art of Dying, Chapter-8, First Question
“…And I would like you also to come to this innoCent ignorance, to this state of not-knowing. Because the state of not-knowing is the highest state of knowing; not of knowledge, mind you, of knowing. And this knowing is content-less — it is not that you know something, there is nothing to know.”
I wish it was that Alok! In my experience, when I started meditating many Q arose-spiritual, non-spiritual and more importantly about techniques. Those Q were not answered in Pune but answered elsewhere. Those answers were an immense support to me!
And mind you, what Osho did for all those years-ANSWERING QUESTIONS!
One can only answer through experience, hence my statement-not much meditation experience in Pune when I was there! Maybe I was just unlucky!
And just to add-answers were given to me but they didn’t feel to be right at that time and proved to be wrong over time.
i am so glad so see to true osho lover like harideva exposing
resort’s cunning management. all sanyasins should learn to expose inner circle. and bring old time back.
no temple, no church, no mosque is closed to disples to their masters. expect pune resort.
enough is enough
please before you make any judgement about harideva. i would like everyone to know this harideva has been growing his childhood and youth devoting to commune and its activities. he was banned because jayesh, amrito and couple of other inside management got jealous with his creativity and his wisdom, it is so simple, i remmber harideva working in creative arts in early 90′s. he has shared fun to sannyas world. we owe him some respect and love. please think about it before pointing fingure at him. or perheps try to meet him before you throw some stone at him or perheps look inside of yourself if you can not see him in person
the more this decision sinks in the more I realise how massive it really is! …it’s gigantic.
it’s close to the bottom falling out of the inner management circles world.
look at it like this…If the inner management circle had won the trademarks then any OSHO place/centre around the world would be answerable to them and a license given to them would be at the discression of resort!
so lets say hari deva was attending the cologne OSHO centre then the inner management circle would be able to request that they also refuse hari deva entrance to OSHO cologne… and they would have to comply under threat of license removal.
and if say our friend rajneesh wanted to open a centre for the misfits etc… a call it OSHO rebelious ones.
and do OSHO meditations there they would have been able to sue his ass and close him down… this they would have been able to do to anyone opening anything to do with Osho that sold anything….quite a dominating power isn’t it!
now that they have lost the trademarks…….
hari deva or rajneesh or anyone who feels to do it can open a centre and call it OSHO whatever and do groups and meditations and whatsoever they want ..
without even a nod or a wink to the inner management circle……
and this trademark claim in some other 40 countries
after the rejection of the claim in america none of the other countries will defend it ..it is totally impossible to enforce someones claim to trademark in another country when it has been refused in courts of america.
they do not have trademark anywhere at all they have only claimed trademarks and this has been contested in america and trademarks have been refused.
the inner management circle are powerless
OSHO is FREE! and WE are FREE of their domination.
It’s time to dance!
perhaps it’s time that all the rebels came together and created an alternative OSHO rebelious resort ….
a place sannyasins that are prepared to stand up for themselves and a place to realise that OSHO left us all His dream
I call upon hari deva.. swami rajneesh.pan of buddhahill….giten ..and all the hundreds of OSHO rebels and resort rejects to join the dance .
And if someone wanted to create Osho Extreme Encounter, with no holds barred violence, and occasional fatalities, this is also possible if there is no trademark control. Great for Osho’s reputation. (I am sure if you really wanted to do it, it is possible, say in lawless parts of Afghanistan, just pay the warlords enough money)
And what if Harideva or whoever goes off the rails and starts doing really crazy things.
In the big millenium party Harideva created in Goa, there was every activity under the sun except the standard Osho meditations and Osho discourses
Harideva or whoever could call his centre a Rajneesh Centre, a Bhagwan Centre, Harideva Meditation Center.
“In the big millenium party Harideva created in Goa, there was every activity under the sun except the standard Osho meditations and Osho discourses”
The one thing I really do respect about the OIF and the resort is the fact that Osho’s work is so readily available. I loved how his books were at cost price and that I could find books like “Jesus Crucified Again” and “I am the Gate”. Finding these types of books (and I actually did read the part in I AM THE GATE about Mala and noticed it wasn’t edited out).
So these things still are fantastic, atleast people can still get to know Osho directly rite?
I know its a bit inconsistent of me to flip back n forth….but mehh..
* finding these types of books sort of downplayed the whole theory about CIA within the resort because books directly critical of christianity and the US government were still available….
the inner management circle could get round that ‘danger’ of someone ruining osho’s ‘reputation’
by allowing people that reflected their view of osho’s ‘dream’ could pay to become affiliated with the osho resort in pune india.
you alok could open a centre in london called ..
alok’s osho centre (affiliated to osho resort pune india)
but you would have to represent their osho vision and not your own …and you would of course have to go to resort to do training …and so on…
This has a bit of a ring to it…
Alokalok Osho centre (affiliated with osho resort pune)
come on home .. first satori free.
Swami’s all inclusive european alternative Osho resort.
non affiliated and twice the fun of the original.
all original therapies and love-ins.
both of these are good alok …
so people looking for a franchise representative of the pune resort india they will be able to look for an affiliated centre.
Amrito wrote :
“In the big millennium party Harideva created in Goa, there was every activity under the sun except the standard Osho meditations and Osho discourses”
I did not go but there were big ads in Osho magazines with lists of activities. Conspicuous in their absence were Osho meditations and Osho discourses.
well I guess before assuming there werent any Osho meditations and osho discourses, we should atleast verify this from people who did go rite?? Ads arent usually the best at telling what the event may actually have done…
I would like to add a bit more juice to this story. i happenend to be in candolim in goa when harideva organized a huge event-celebration in Osho’s name ( at least that was the exppectation). It was a disaster. pathetic, in fact. the meditation camp lead by Neelam and Prem Jyhoti was deserted. The only thing that happenned was 20 guys dancing to some drums at sunset. One night there was a “Music group”. Some guys around a bonfire singing pune one and old ranch songs… just pathetic. the songs I still like…But the environment was that of a nursing home full of old people remembering the ” good old days”.
One of the beauties of Osho’s work today is that it is not about Osho, but about meditation and people personal process. i have been recently to pune and this is my opinion. there is no worship of a dead master ( something Osho was very much against). the focus is on every person personal process and Osho remains the inspiration. Any little sign of cultish behaviour ( that indians seems to enjoy so much) is gone… And i think it is a good sign.
I have been to other Osho communes and in most of them there is this cultish flavour about the work.
I understand that the path of devotion can be a useful tool when the master is alive, but the most dangerous one when the master is dead. And Osho is dead. Nothing we can do about that.
Finally, harideva always seemed like an arrogant, shalow guy… more interested in parting than meditating.
I don’t remember the exact words from the Master but it was something like “if you decide that I am dead, I will be dead for you!”.
So if you anthony thompson have decided that Osho is dead-that is your little world! Enjoy!
“Any little sign of cultish behaviour ( that indians seems to enjoy so much)”
haha!! What bullshit!!
If i can recall—the most popular cultish behaviour and the word “cult” orginated in the western hemisphere!! Infact if you read any blogs about people’s experiences at the resort, they clearly define it as a cultish experience due to the tight-rope authoritarian rules of the place (shades of white are not even tolerated!).
Thers this overwhelming sense from western sannyasins (western europe and US) that Indians just have it all wrong when it comes to Osho or something.
Remember, India might have hated on Osho in the beginning, but has been the only country to fully embrace him today…
anthony, I respect how you research on Osho, but you are diving into a huge BIAS when you take the role of looking from one point of view only. Your next step will probably be to become the Press Secretary for the Resort and get rid of the “Indian” that does that job now…haha!
yes well said amrito..
you have a good unbiased rounded opinion…
I have also felt this indian story to be around and it is in my opinon racist!
when I was at the resort …there were no indians at all…. there were just sannyasins …
for me sannyas was/is above race ….
I knew devotional sannyasins from the west and the east…still do..
there is no right or wrong if you accept all the facets of the diamond.
and harideva likes a party and so do I and that in no way makes me or him worthy of your rather rude critical judgement antony…
good luck .
I did not intend to make a racist remark regarding indians. But from a cultural point of view devotion to the master is an eastern concept. we just do not have it in the west. which does not mean that westerns can not be devotional.
My point is that as a tool for personal growth has, or can have its place in the presence of a living master, but it can turn into a dangerous practice when what it is worshiped is an icon, an image or an idea. why? simply because you are being devotional towards your own projection.
When Osho was alive he could kick your ass, trick you, shock you or to use anything to wake you up. Dead masters just dont do that. they can´t.
regarding the quote from chetna. I can produce tons of quotes where osho suggests his sannyasins to leave the movement, to dissolvee or to find another living master once he is gone. But my idea is not to through quotes back and forth like evengelicals.
My idea is to share my opinion. I like what is happening in pune. i do not need to be press office for anyone. They simple agree with my point of view.
regarding harideva, it is simply my own opinion and judgement. It is not a universal truth. I think I am entitled to have such opinon. i never liked him.. I found him always showing off…doing things in public to be noticed… never found much depth with him. But this is certainly my propnlem… not harideva´s. It is simply my opinion.
dismissing someone you hardly knew as shallow
is a reflection of yourself..
if he ..harideva is shallow in your opinion are you a deep person .. or just deeper than hari?
let me help you…
every single person in the world are individual and original……when you can look at each and every one of them with a little love … then you are on the path .
I did not intend to make a racist remark regarding indians. But from a cultural point of view devotion to the master is an eastern concept. we just do not have it in the west. which does not mean that westerns can not be devotional. ”
Ok, let me break it down a little bit..
First, devotion is not an eastern concept. Its a human concept.
Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are the most “devotional” religions in the world and they are homegrown western. They are the most fanatical, cultish religious ideologies to ever exist.
They all believe in a mono-theistic belief system where there is one god, one life, one lover. Jesus is the only way–or take the highway–moses will kick your ass if you dont surrender–type philosophies.
What we see in the east is not truly eastern by any standard, they are all pseudo christian mixed. Hinduism is now christian-hinduism, same with buddhism and jainism. Indian society never had a split until Islamic and Christian invasions.
What we see right now in the west is simply a reaction-function to thousands of years of bullshit. The Christian ideology has polluted the west soo much that a large component are simply anti-religion. Even famous athiest authors like Dawkins don;t hardly touch upon buddhism (never had) or gnostic hinduism but STILL dismiss all religions (including any spiritual parts such as meditation).
So, your discriminatory statement on Indians is still proposterous.
Anthony also says:
“When Osho was alive he could kick your ass, trick you, shock you or to use anything to wake you up. Dead masters just dont do that. they can´t.”
This is the difference between a mere observors point of view and a sannyasins point of view.
I dont propogate nor wish to influence others, but my personal experience (having never met Osho in this lifetime), is that His energy is widely present and available. I need not produce evidence for this nor is that my intention, but my experiences on the path strongly indicate that the master-desciple relationship is very much available as it was 20-25 years back.
Osho has spoken on numerous discourses (i don’t believe in producing these discourses as evidence as this makes me simply a scholar), on how the body of the master is an irrelevant thing. Osho even confirmed that Buddha;s energy or Jesus’s energy can still be contacted for genuine seekers on the path. All enlightend ones are available if the seeker is available.
What I described above cannot be compared to a religious fanatic saying “Jesus is my saviour and I Believe he will be resurrected”. In fact, this is completely a western point of view because this is the type of bullshit we hear from missionaries etc. But a spiritual connection to master is not a religious vow, its simply a spiritual connection. I’m sure some evangelicals do have spiritual connections, but these are manipulated and hijacked by the Ted Haggards and Benny Hins.
But for any sincere seeker, Osho is available and no one need produce Osho’s energy. It is everywhere one needs it, hence the symbolic truth of the Mala. It stays on you simply as a constant reminder that the master is around and to remain aware of oneself.
However, Osho’s words were so magnetic and clear that one will just love to stick to his words and forget the rest. Many would like to promote his meditations, but forget the spiritual connection to Osho. Osho could have done this in the very beginning and been a sell-out, he could have attracted huge crowds and crowds of millions—he had all the prerequisites to do this (speech, looks, eyes).
But unfortunately this wasn’t Osho, and Osho didn’t compromise with truth. But now, who cares–Osho’s dead so lets do what we can to bring the millions that never came.
So now, edit his discourses, remove his photos, remove his mala, re-brand him, re-market him and reduce him to a perfect spiritual product.
Ofcourse Pune will be flourishing, people can come, escape, and go. No need to be started and vulnerable to those deep eyes that send goosebumps down any living person.
But when there’s no water behind the plant, it’ll wither away and fake plants will have to brought in.
Amrito, on compilations see
http://www.satrakshita.com/osho_books.htm towards bottom of page.
Osho certainly suggested only to wear the mala when meditating at home, roundabout 85, I think.
I love Sw Arun, but Osho never gave the five rules that SwArun propagates. Osho had tons of opportunities if He had wanted to.
In support of Anthony I sometimes make judgments
No my specific references werent towards compliations. See this link here:
One of my favourite books, “The Book of Wisdom” has some of the best parts deleted on the new version.
Not only are chapters deleted, but specific paragraphs within lectures are deleted. Sentences are deleted. Words are added in.
And some of the edits are not purely grammatical, they are ideological deletes. They delete parts about surrender and sannyas, visitors, creative urge. etc.
When you delete a specific part of a lecture off and still agree to sell the book as a full-book not a compliation—thats called manipulation…..
Before I go too far with this critisism against OIF, I did a bit of research on Osho.com.
When I was in Pune 3 years back I bought Osho The Book of Wisdom:
The copy above is the edition I have, and this edition has everything in it—the parts that are shown deletd on Osho Friends International website i posted above.
Now, they have another version at the same time, the “international version-edition”, which is:
So, I believe the latter has the edits made on it shown by Osho Friends…
Now, I’m confused…..they have both the original and the edited one….
Atleast the original one is available I guess on Osho.com along with other books.
So, sometimes the battle between OIF and OFI does seem political–because neither aknowledges anything positive about the other.
Soo as the contradictions continue, so do I!!
Well… yes, i do make judjements of people, of my self, of the world…a lot. Actually, i am not the dalai lama.
My ability to judje and discriminate is what allows me to move in one direction or other. regarding my opinions on harideva, they are just that: opinions. not a phenomenological description of his true nature. And I do know the man… more than a little bit.
Regading my likings of pune. I do not like or agree on everything. In the same way that I did not like everything that osho said and did. And I think this is also my human prerogative.
I do not like banning policies ( and I did not like them when they were coming from osho neither), I do not like insistences on the length of a robe, i do not like secrecies, i do not like the editing, and most of all, i do not like the round about euphemistic way they express the new changes.
BUt as an over all, what they are doing is far closer to my understanding of the spirit of osho´s work, which is about waking up, witnessing and consciousness. And this was said by osho himself hundreds of times: ” I am a finger pointing to the moon… do not bite the finger”. he even joked about that some people loved to suck on the finger. In my understanting the esential of his message is not the master disciple relationship, that is only a mean, the essential is to develop the state of winessing, recognizing your buddha nature.
As far as mala wearing… yes, i was with Osho in Pune when he specifically comunicated through Anando that the mala was to be used at home and only for meditation. and that only if you wish.
You can check any of the filmed discourse from ´ 87 to the day of his death and see if anyone, i mean anyone is wearing a mala…none.
Finally devotion to a living being is definately eastern in concept and practice. In the west we have devotion to icons, with all the trrappings that it includes.
Devotion and surrender to a living master is not somkething that is part of our cultural heritage. First we do not have gurus or masters, just teachers, second the idea of surrender goes against our ego-centered conditioning.
This why for westeners, in general, it has been easier to understand the changes in pune.
that is all…
the way you operate your judgemental nature does nothing for you apart from accepting the front of something while rejecting the back of it!
did this judgement of another sannyasin as a shallow person come to you in your meditations?
you didn’t answer my question…do you consider yourself to be deeper or shallower than hari?
I find myself wondering what would you know about oshos teaching when you refer to other people as shallow?
and how can you talk about surrender to the master when you have no knowledge about it at all?
I kind of agree with Anthony. I feel many sannyasins get stuck in adoration of the master and do not go for meditation and their own transformation. I agree that our relationship with him was a means, not and end onto itself.
Anthony´s view sounds more clear than many so-called disciples.
Finally, whatever he thinks of Harideva is his thing. If it bothers you swami. that is your problem.
thanks for commenting shivani .
yes it bothers me
and that is not my problem ..
good that you and antony are affilated.
Beloved Anthony, Shivani, Swami and Alok John,
This discussion is beautiful because everyone can what they feel and not get banned from Sannyas News!
So although many may consider what we talk about here meaningless and useless “mind fuck” —-it still shows the diversity of sannyas.
I labbed you Anthony as a “mere observer”, and I apoligize—you have much insight from these last 20-30 years.
I love the Osho Meditation resort for what it is—-but why hasn’t the awareness come to them that people may simply disagree with their point of view. Well I’m sure they do accept this, but it itches them the wrong way when you disagree and start putting into action your own personal way of imbibing and feeling Osho.
Yes, the way is INwards—but its easy for the rich to say “money is meaningless–the truth is to be happy” —the same way many sannyasins say “The Master is meaningless—soo go INwards”.
I don’t say create statues of Osho and worhsip centers to exemplify this…no no!! Not my point at all—All I say is let Osho’s discourses on these things come about more transparently!! The new edition edits completely delete any form of master-desciple talk from Book of Wisdom—as if people will RUN RUN RUN.
But perhaps those who feel this way are down to small minority, those who still feel that twinkle in Osho’s eyes in the trees, the wind, the sunset…everywhere…
Yes it is great that there is this discussion.
If every chalet in Rajneeshpuram had internet access, I don’t think Sheela’s madness could have occured. It is a great thing, really, the web.
so,mr jayesh o`byrne o`beroi good ol` boy,an other peoples property developer from PO box 29374563,
who wants to be a millionaire!
the first question:
the last words of the mystic osho to his disciples were:
A i leave you my legal team
B i leave you my get rich quick scheme
C i leave you my trademark
D i leave you to fight it out amongst yourselves
er..i`d like to phone my lawyer,please
the next contestant:
mr harry lovebaba,a loved-up newage sadhu from joe banana`s chaishop,anjuna:
your first question:
the last words of the mystic,osho to his disciples were:
A i leave you my chillum
B i leave you hopelessly stranded on a beach in goa
in the 70s
C i leave you to hassle rednecks in red robes who are
messin with my trip,man.
D let`s party,dude.
er,i`d like to phone my dealer,please…
ladies and gentlemen.
they are ALL the right answer!
what a player
what a player!
Frank, stop this! You are making me laugh too loudly and I am sitting at work!
Isn´t it funny that the people we laugh at and somehow despise… are the very same people Osho, personally left his dream to. Actually, that phrase was uttred to Jayesh.
Weather we like it or not. these are the people he chose.
osho left his dream to all people.!
why do you despise jayesh?
“Isn´t it funny that the people we laugh at and somehow despise… are the very same people Osho, personally left his dream to. Actually, that phrase was uttred to Jayesh.
Weather we like it or not. these are the people he chose.
Hahah WHAT BULLSHIT!!
Comman, Osho had supposedly given Sheela “Prophecies of the world ending” and “Rajneeshism”.
Sheela delivered these messages on behalf of Osho too, later who would have guessed Osho would denounce such sayings by a person left in total power of the commune.
So, I am gnostic to this fellow Jayesh and Amrito2 (I’m Amrito 1-haha), who claim having recieved the final orders for Osho.
What a moment that could be for someone with a clever and cunning mind—the last moment of the master could mean the first moment of an empire and power…
So Shivani, “Isn’t it funny..” you say…its HILARIOUS—hahahaha!!
Amrito, in the end it is about judging character. I was in Buddha Hall on January 20th 1990, when Dr Amrito talked about Osho’s last hours and minutes. It is in a video called ‘I Leave you my Dream’ which is worth seeing. All I can say is Dr Amrito looked completely sincere when he said that Osho said ‘I leave you my dream’ to Jayesh in his last minutes.
As Shivani says these are the people Osho chose whether we like it or not, probably because of their considerable intelligence.
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 2
Chapter title: This is it
The last question:
WHAT ARE YOUR LAST WORDS GOING TO BE TO THE WORLD?
It reminds me of a story George Gurdjieff used to tell his closest disciples. The story is about a great past master, a buddha, who had a self-appointed right-hand man who was a faithful follower for year after year. And when the master was in his room on his deathbed, all of the followers silently waited by the door not knowing what to do and incapable of believing that their mystical master was really dying.
Finally, through the sorrowful stillness, the master’s voice was faintly heard to call the name of the right-hand man, and all of the followers looked at him intently as he made his way to the master’s door. As he reached for the knob he glanced at the peering faces around him and imagined their envy and respect for him at being the only one to be called to the master’s side during his final moments. He already imagined how after the master’s death he would slowly emerge from the room as the new head of the system, a veritable Peter-of-the-Rock.
Quietly he entered the darkened room and slowly he made his way and knelt by the bed. The old master nodded for him to come nearer, and he leaned over with his awaiting ear by the old man’s mouth, and the master whispered, “Fuck you.”
Enough for today.
jayesh …not sure what he did ..probably was counting cash in his mind.
but amrito with all his closeness to the master and having been left oshos dream couldn’t stop sobbing with attatchment and saddness for himself at the loss of his master…and had to be told to stop crying that is not the way…..
osho had so much time to set things up and he did .. the inner circle .. which am and j. were part off…. which they both against oshos wishes dominated and controlled…
they are dominators and controllers…sheela would have fitted in the same group.
alok john said.. In the end it is about judging character!
A Sudden Clash of Thunder
Chapter title: When you are Not, God is
12 August 1976 am in Buddha Hall
A man of character is the deadliest man in the world. He practises his knowledge; he tries to follow his knowledge. He is not spontaneous. He is continuously managing, manipulating, pushing himself this way and that; somehow holding himself together. He is not responsible — responsible in the sense of being capable of response. If you come across him, if you embrace him, he will answer it, but that answer will come out of his past experiencing — out of his character.
A man of character is predictable. Only a mechanism can be predictable. A fully conscious man is unpredictable. No astrologer can predict anything about a fully conscious man. He moves moment-to-moment, full of wonder. He acts out of wonder; he acts out of response to the moment. He carries no knowledge, he carries no character with him. Each moment he is new, reborn.
So these are the three steps: knowing dies; knowing becomes knowledge; knowledge becomes character. Be aware — beware! Don’t allow your knowing to fall and to become knowledge. And never allow your knowledge to control you and to create a character for you. A character is an armour. In the armour you are jailed… then you can never be spontaneous. You are already in your grave — a character is a grave.
Let your knowing be there, but don’t allow it to become knowledge or character. The moment it is turning into knowledge, drop it, empty your hands. Forget all about it. Move ahead! again like a child. Difficult, I know. Easy to say; difficult to be that way — but that is the only way you can attain to satchitanand — you can attain to truth, you can attain to consciousness, you can attain to bliss.
“Amrito, in the end it is about judging character. I was in Buddha Hall on January 20th 1990, when Dr Amrito talked about Osho’s last hours and minutes. It is in a video called ‘I Leave you my Dream’ which is worth seeing. All I can say is Dr Amrito looked completely sincere when he said that Osho said ‘I leave you my dream’ to Jayesh in his last minutes.”
Yes I have seen that video and have also felt a sincerity—but who am I to judge. I felt sincerity when watching a video when Sheela fell to Osho’s feet when he was comming out of a Federal Immigration Office—it also looked very sincere.
When I was watch great actors, I also feel there sincerity in the deepest parts of a movie—many cry with them too. Actors outside their role have been known to be complete opposites as well…
So, I am gnostic about who is sincere and who is not. I do know Sw. Amrito or Sw. Jayesh on a personal level so I cannot judge sincerity.
I may sound very much against them—but that is my shortcommings, my human nature to judge. I respect there abiltiies to transform and bring to reality things like the Osho Auditorium—no matter what n e one says, the structure is absolutely gorgeous for meditation.
But, I cannot take a desciples last word as the truth. I will only trust the master.
***I do not* know Sw. Amrito and Sw. Jayesh***
(i believe ‘swami’ is a banned term now though…)
yes swami is ..
non affiliated in all ways .!
non affiliated from all known and unknown organisations!
go to miriam’s and shout out …Swami!
to see who turns his head!
thanks, frank! that was fuckin funny.
hey, i didn’t even know i wasn’t a ‘swami’ anymore. i guess if stay away from the resort and their rules, i won’t know what not to do.
damn, i’ll have to think for myself then, though. who the heck wants to do that?
Amrito wrote : ” I felt sincerity when watching a video when Sheela fell to Osho’s feet when he was comming out of a Federal Immigration Office…”
Well I didn’t.
but you knew her and how she was like right? How is anyone else suppose to judge when they see a video? Ofcourse one knows the story aftewards…
But sincerity is a tricky adjective to guess.
No, I never met Sheela or saw her in person. But I was around European sannyasins during the Ranch period and saw her on video quite a bit. I have seen Dr Amrito in person quite a few times though I have never spoken to him.
Last words seem quite pathetic, cheap story to buy. Osho never wanted to leave any successors and all over sudden he has a dream which he leaves to some dude who is humble and so devoted that went to run the show.
So many recording of Osho and here is the main one missing!!! Show me where Osho says that Jaesh is the main playboy!??
He should be ashamed of himself! But truth will come out I am sure! Unfortunately I personally don’t know the truth, but the one with this dream (let me wipe my tears), I will never buy.
more last words….from OSHO….
The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 10
Chapter title: Transcendence — the true therapy
24 February 1980 am in Buddha Hall
The venerable old rabbi, known throughout the land for his wisdom, lay in a coma, very near death. On either side of his bed hovered his most worshipful disciples.
“Rebbenyu,” pleaded the spokesman for the grieving congregants, “please do not leave us without a final word of wisdom. Speak to us for the last time, dear Rabbi.” For a few moments there was no response, and the weeping visitors feared he had passed on to his well-earned reward. But suddenly the rabbi’s lips moved ever so slightly. They bent over him to hear his final words.
“Life is a cup of tea,” he whispered in a faint voice.
The disciples looked at each other in perplexity. What did he mean? What great secret of life was hidden in that mystic statement? For the better part of an hour they exchanged opinions, analyzing the sentence from every conceivable standpoint, but they could not decipher the deeper meaning.
“We must ask him before it is too late,” said the leader. Once again, he leaned over the still figure of the revered sage. “Rabbi, Rabbi,” he called out urgently, “we implore you to explain. Why is life a cup of tea?”
With his last spark of energy, the rabbi lifted his palms and croaked, “Alright, so life is not a cup of tea.”
The New Dawn
Chapter title: You fool around — then learn the lesson
25 June 1987 pm in Chuang Tzu Auditorium
“Did you hear that Dennis Thatcher died?”
“No, what were his last words?”
“He did not have any, his wife was with him to the end.
Do you know the one about the horse painted green? It is my favourite.
Now something serious….
Prince Edward, the queen’s youngest son, takes a horse ride every morning in Hyde Park. And every day he sees the same beautiful girl sitting on a park bench. He soon falls madly in love with her, but is too shy to introduce himself. Not knowing what to do, he consults his elder brother Charles who is more experienced in such matters.
“Simple,” says Charles. “Just paint your horse green.”
“Green?” exclaims Edward.
“Yes, green,” says Charles. “And next time you see her, she will say, `Your horse is green?’ and you can say, `That’s right, and my name is Prince Edward.’ And then you can take her for a drink and then you can invite her for a weekend in Scotland, and if you play your cards right, you may end up with a romp in the heather.”
“Great!” says Edward. And the next morning he arrives in the park with a green horse.
The girl looks up, sees him and cries, “My God, your horse is green!”
“Yes,” says Edward, and then he stammers, “well, er, well, well… I wanna fuck you!”
Continuing their tour of India, Hymie Goldberg and Becky Goldberg go trekking in the Himalayas. Walking along the path, gazing at the mountain scenery, Hymie bumps straight into a yeti, one of the legendary abominable snowmen. The yeti picks up Hymie and runs off into the hills, leaving Becky wailing and crying that she will never see her Hymie again.
Sure enough, a few minutes later there is a piercing shriek that echoes around the mountains and Becky fears the worst. But a short while later, Hymie comes limping down the path into Becky’s arms.
“What happened?” she cries in relief. “How did you escape?”
“Well,” says Hymie reluctantly, “I thought I was finished, all twisted up in the creature’s arms until I could not breathe. And then I saw this pair of balls hanging in front of my nose, so with my last energy I bit the balls as hard as I could. And you have no idea how much strength a man gets when he bites his own balls!”
Yes, Beloved Master.
Osho: Hari Om Tat Sat, Chapter 18
yes . thank you for the laugh alok john.
Please contact me at my email, firstname.lastname@example.org
Heraclitus // Feb 3, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Swami, you seem as always quite misinformed and out of date.
The Osho trademark US decision has already been appealed.
how is the appeal going?
do let us know!
‘Guinness is Free’ or A Tale of Two Beers,
an edifying and instructional story for lovers of Osho.
A man walked into a pub. On the bar was a bright sign ‘Ice Cold Guinness.’ The man asked for a pint of Guinness; the barman carefully filled a pint glass with the thick dark beer. The man took the glass to his lips and took a swig. The beer was horrible.
“This isn’t Guinness” the man said to the barman. “It’s vile. It’s the worst beer I have ever had. It tastes like the cheapest lager coloured with black shoe polish. What’s happened to Guinness?”
“Don’t you know,” said the barman. “Guinness is Free. The Guinness company lost the trademark on some legal technicality. Now anyone can use the word Guinness to sell beer, or anything else for that matter.”
“But I loved Guinness,” said the man. “It was the only beer I drank. How can I get a pint of genuine Guinness?”
“You can’t,” said the barman sadly, for he was also a lover of Guinness. “Every Tom, Dick and Harry is selling his beer under the name Guinness.”
The man sadly repaired home, never to drink his beloved beer again.
sounds like you need to get into some home brewing there.
do some DIY man…
brew your own,then you wont need to rely on dodge-pot conartists salesmen and their
Basically it is the Council of Nicea all over again. Writings collated by a group of people who want to take it all in a new direction for their own purposes, and cut out bits that they find won’t sell as well to their audience. Perhaps Osho did instruct those ‘directions’? We will probably never know if he did or not.
what is this dissucssion all about.i don’t understand.what i know is osho is for everyone and he is such unique master that everyone can associate with him with their views.
ira, it is just some guys with nothing better to do than moan on sannyas news
keep your cup clean and empty..water flows by itself and has no intrinsic ownbeing…it can be nectar or poison depending on your own perception.