Who were the original 21 appointed by Osho?
The original 21, thanks to Arpana’s research were - appointed by Osho, but one imagines advised by those closest to him are listed below.
Anyone want to relist them and say whether they `re deceased, left the 21, etc. I remember at the time the list was advertised as balanced between those who would foster Osho’s outward work, and those who would be responsible for the inner work. As there are a few here I cant place one imagines they were those in the latter category.
We await with baited breath Shantam’s research re the current 21!
Jayesh
Amrito
Anando
Amitabh
Anasha
Avirbhava
Chitten
Devageet
Garimo
Hasya
Jayantibhai
Kaveesha
Mukta the Greek
Neelam
Plotinus
Prasad
Tathaghat
Turiya
Vedant
Yogi
Zareen
Prologue – Tony Blair or George Bush, David Cameron or Barrack Obama, I have their images in my brain, images gathered from news media, but when I read the names in Osho’s games, they are not part of visual images. I have seen them talking, walking, working, hugging, crying, laughing, meditating and an opportunity to work with few of them.
Osho, His people and the work in His ashram are part of my passion, rather than greed to have fastest possible mean of convenience to reach the other shore. I am not in a hurry to buy the ticket to Nirvana from black market or Indian way of getting the things done through Bakshish!
Therefore I will try my best to share the history of merger and intrigue with utmost distance and objectivity. I had always a wish that someone who has lived Osho’s second homecoming to Pune will correct my facts and outbursts.
Sometimes there are no foot or finger prints, no wired telephone conversations, no hard evidence, only strong circumstantial evidence to point out about that missing something, which has just gone and disappeared. Business and corporate houses are more in tune with time where quaterly results shed the light how yahoo is doing and replacing the CEO’s and how Samsung has taken the No. 1 position.
No wonder, world at large has already taken the Osho movement into the footnotes of life’s continuity, just like Nokia!!
This is a party political broadcast on behalf of Shantam and the Raving Monster Deluded Bodhisattva party!
Our great leader cares not for his own enlightenment, but has devoted his life to making the world a better place for sannyasins, as anyone on sannyasnews will readily testify.
His integrity is as clean and clear as his metaphors…
His message as sharp and easily grasped as his satire…
Anyone who has read a bit of porn could not fail to notice that!
He refuses to accept backhand baksheesh trips to nirvana, off-cuts from Shri Halal Punyaji or prefering to wallow in ignorance for the sake of his fellow travellers…
He is undoubtedly our Mahatma Gandhi to Amrito`s Mountbatten…
Most do not understand Osho’s final phase (’88-’90)…So why not listen to a man who was actually there in the back row, trying to get into the knickers of the female of the species of the white-skinned colonial?
So…
If you want the pure Osho
vote for Shantam, CEO.
You know it makes sense….
Siege mentality
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Siege mentality is a shared feeling of victimization and defensiveness. It is a state of mind whereby one believes that one is being constantly attacked, oppressed, or isolated and makes one frightened of surrounding people. This can cause a state of being overly fearful leading to a defensive attitude.
Although the term evolved from real sieges, fortress of military defences, today it may refer to persecution feelings by anyone in a group that views itself as a threatened minority. This can be used in the field of sports, where coaches or managers often create a siege mentality in their players by highlighting an environment of hostility from outside the club (whether the hostility is real or exaggerated does not matter). Siege mentalities are particularly common in business, the result of competition or downsizing. Some religious groups may have this paradigm, particularly if they are not traditional mainstream groups. In addition to these sociological applications, this mentality also has political ones. For instance, dictatorships have been known to encourage this point of view among their own people, since it justifies the continuance of those in power.
An alternative name for this phenomenon is “bunker mentality”, a phrase used in analogy to soldiers that have taken shelter in a bunker while under siege from enemies.
Was just told Varidhi from Osho Afroz died last night. He left while dancing on his birthday party for the song, “Life is a Carnival”. What an amzing death. And it was a last day of Mystic Rose.
The 21? If this actually means something to you and has some bearing on your day to day life I’d take this a sign that you have mental health issues. I’ve met a few of the 21 and they are all special people, taking into account that every one else is also special. All Osho’s crap about the chosen few and such selective groups like the 21 seem to me like indications that he fell from the peak that he once attained, because it is all complete nonsense whose real place is in a kindergarten for mentally retarded adults.
Arpana, if you are so clever to copy and paste from the net, why just 20 names? You can post your research, what they are doing right now and at present who is who in the decision-making body of Osho Pune, a Billion dollar property purchased at right time with the total investment of not more than 50 million.
And also please check one German word, “Streber”. It is used quite often as adjective to describe the most obedient boy in the class, who is very proper to sing, ” Good morning teacher. Good afternoon teacher”
The boy who goes for private tuition for his homework and if lucky, gets his first chance with the sports teacher, Ms. Busty Nunn!
I didn’t copy and paste from the net. I approached someone who had the information and asked.
I’ve always viewed the way Osho set up the running of the ashram, ie the 21, not as how he wanted to do things, but as the least bad of available alternatives.
“Mentally retarded adults are just wasting their time to discuss recession in Spain and banks bail-out. I don’t see such bad scenario. I have enough money to live and enough in the offshore accounts.
Who says there is recession, there is unemployment? All my friends are making handsome living through their bed and breakfast in Ibiza”
( Maharishi Lokesh)
It’s not complicated.
If you want to get rid of the present management, you are going to need more money than them.
Until then,
It’s all pissing into the wind.
Call Lady Gaga, for example.
She’s an Osho fan.
The biz would be small change for her.
Rename the place:
“The Oshogaga experience”
…that’s got a catchy ring to it…
And could be more interesting than the unedifying spectacle of ex-Raj dipsomaniacs battling self-righteous spiritually-overweight delusional semi-hindus….
Thanks for the info.All of this 21 are still in place? Do they take every decision about the place with unanimity, which means if a single one of these 21 doesn’t agree, they have to discuss again until each and every one of them agrees?
Youngman, I believe that was the idea…
You would have thought a quick glance at the history of the UN would have put paid to such a half-assed idea.
(Was osho off his head or was it one of his last practical jokes?)
By all accounts, what actually happens is that if there’s any disagreement, the other 19 notice Jack the Ripper in the background shuffling through his Gladstone bag and alternately sharpening his scalpels and taking large slugs from his bottomless bottle of Gordons…
Seems to do wonders for unanimity….
Quote from previous thread, ‘Shantam, ou seem to be an expert on the “21″.’
What to say? We all have our problems.
PS: Shantam, the only people who have bed and breakfast in my home are friends who I invite. The financial crisis in Spain is very real for many, but as yet does not affect me enough to have to charge my friends money to be a guest in my home. If it gets to the point that I have to do that it will signal to me that it is time to move elsewhere.
Ma Young sannyasin has a query,
All of this 21 are still in place? Do they take every decision about the place with unanimity, which means if a single one of these 21 doesn’t agree, they have to discuss again until each and every one of them agrees?
Ma Young, I can answer this question, first you let me know in the coming US Presidential elections, who is going to fight against President John F Kennedy?
Basic general knowledge is not a must requirement for the higher trips, yet it helps to know a bit by typing any question at google, for example: How Osho inner circle works?!
I’m a Swami, Shantam, not a Ma.
When I was talking about brahmin lap -dancers and Lokesh in chuddies I was just joking……..I ask this to compare what I’ve read on internet about the subject which you may have come to know more directly.
Typed Osho inner circle at google..
Taken from a supplement to the Osho Times International, dated February 1, 1990
“On April 6 1989, Osho gave instructions for the setting up of a committee to be called “The Inner Circle.” The aim of the committee, he said, was to reach unanimous decisions about the continued functioning and expansion of the commune and his work. “I am tired,” he said, “and I want to retire.”
Over the next few months Osho kept close watch on the workings of the committee members. Eventually he finalised the committee at 21 members, whom he said had been chosen to represent the commune departments and his work. He stressed that the inner workings of the committee were to remain a secret. He also said that the committee is not to be involved in spiritual considerations, but should look to the mundane work, the practical problems of the commune: “The Inner Circle” is not a club to discuss philosophy. It is a pragmatic and practical way to decide things.”
Osho said that when any member dies a new member is to be chosen unanimously by the remaining members”.
Please notice how many times the word Commune is used and how many times, the word resort!
In a simple language, almost all the changes enforced by the Jayesh regime are unconstitutional. Trustees have gone much beyond their mandate. Rectification is the must.
All this goes to show is that Osho wasn’t a very good judge of people’s character. Maybe adopting a non-judgemental attitude is a bad idea when it comes to choosing people to do pragmatic and practical things.
Shantam, perhaps it is a good idea to keep all this secret, otherwise the uninitiated among us might get the wrong impression and start thinking Osho was stupid. Oooooh!…I just realized something very important. It was all a device created by the master for our awakening.
The only inner circle worth learning about is your own. Unfortunately, you will not be able to Google this information. Osho’s inner circle is a manifestation of Osho’s legacy, which is basically a mess for underdeveloped seekers to wade through until they become exhausted and wake up to the realization they are wasting their time. Of course, many won’t wake up and some will take wading through the mud to be some bizarre abstraction, like doing Osho’s work.
Osho was a highly intelligent man and probably forsaw what would happen when he left the building. The priests would take over, along with the pundits, and they have. Eventually, a mini religion will form. People will make pilgrimages to worship at his samadhi etc. They will debate the meaning of the master’s words etc. The religion will not grow very big, basically because it has all been done before and any intelligent person will soon realise that is not bringing them any closer to the truth that lies at the heart of the human condition.
Look around and you will see experts like Shantam, behaving as if he is a conduit to something important, when he is utterly lost himself. You will hear fools talking about Osho’s presence in their daily lives etc. The truth is that Osho often told his people not to become attached to the finger pointing at the moon. Some understood what he meant and have moved on in their journey through life. Many, for one reason or another, are now worshiping the finger to the extent that they wish to build a temple round the finger’s ashes. I say let them, but if you really are a true seeker with conviction you won’t be interested in any of that because you will be busy looking at the moon directly.
Osho finds out that his bookkeeper on the ranch, Prem, has cheated him out of $10,000,000.
His bookkeeper is deaf. That was the reason he got the job in the first place. It was assumed that Prem would hear nothing so he would not have to testify in court when the shit hit the fan about illegal goings on at the ranch.
When Osho goes to confront Prem about his missing $10 million, he takes along Sheela, who knows sign language.
Osho tells Sheela, “Ask him where the money is!”
Sheela, using sign language, asks Prem, “Where’s the money?”
Prem signs back, “I don’t know what you are talking about.”
Sheela tells Osho, “He says he doesn’t know what you are talking about”.
Osho pulls out a pistol, puts it to Prem’s head and says, “Ask him again and tell him if he doesn’t answer I’ll kill him!”
Sheela signs to Prem, “He’ll kill you if you don’t tell him.”
Prem trembles and signs back, “OK! You win! The money is in a brown briefcase, buried behind Buddha Hall.”
Osho asks Sheela, “What did he say?”
Sheela replies, “He says you don’t have the guts to pull the trigger.”
“Osho’s inner circle is a manifestation of Osho’s legacy, which is basically a mess for underdeveloped seekers to wade through until they become exhausted and wake up to the realization they are wasting their time.”
Great synthesis.
Very good post by Lokesh. One interesting pattern that often unfolds with the death of an influential mystic is that the high profile successors (circle of 21, de Salzmann’s Gurdjieff Foundation, etc.) are initially thought to be the *inner* successors of the mystic, the means by which his wisdom gets legitimately transmitted. Ironically, however, these initial successors usually become the figureheads of the new church. They become the Peter the Rocks, the first popes, despite their sincere efforts to protect the master’s wisdom. It’s an essentially unavoidable process, like entropy. (Gurdjieff called it the ‘law of octaves’, or the ‘law of decay’).
It’s probably correct that Osho’s ‘religion’ will never amount to any actual organized movement of any significant size, because his teachings are essentially chaotic (as in ‘chaos magic’ — google that if curious). He left behind no detectable system. Gurdjieff’s work will likely last longer because it’s more structured. Osho was a commentator, not a theorist or a CEO. He was, in a sense, the Bill Mahr or Christopher Hitchens of the spiritual world.
As for the 21 (whoever they be), they will ultimately have two choices: either attempt to structure or systematize Osho’s work, or dissolve the inner circle. If they do the former, they begin a church. If the latter, the teachings are dispersed via his books only. I don’t think Osho’s work can be systematized so likely his teachings will ultimately disperse, and I think that would be consistent with what he wanted anyway.
In all honesty I think the resort is a good place for novices, given the various info that I have received from friends whose opinion I value, even though opinions are two a penny.
What I see coming through from the likes of people like Shantam is a desire to have a personal ‘this is my very own religion’ trip, wherein we have a holy site and an insider value system, secret linguistic queues, special meditation techniques, and all the other add-ons needed to create a cosy religion. Just the sort of spiritual muck the subcontinentals enjoy to wallow in, as they have been doing for ages. Such is the true nature of India’s great spiritual heritage for the main part. Such ideas lie in direct opposition and are completely contrary to what a radical like Osho taught. I recall him saying that God isn’t your uncle because he isn’t nice and therefore the idea of a ‘cosy’ religious movement would make his ashes churn in their urn, that is, if they were alive and were host to a few particles of life force, which they are not.
If someone is new to the spiritual game I suggest seeking out a teacher who is alive and in a body. It doesn’t matter if they are fully enlightened, just so long as they are further along in the game than you are. You can always learn a few new tricks and then when you have learned what is available move on to more fertile shores. I think someone like Mooji looks like a good bet. I’d steer well clear of old farts that took sannyas in the seventies and try and create credence for themselves by repeating those threadbare stories about their experiences with Osho, most of which were projections of their mind-set at the time. Most of those people are utterly lost and are playing the traditional guru game twenty-first century style, but it is still the same old bollocks that only develops a ‘spiritual’ personality that is just as illusionary as the one that you are having to deal with now.
Osho made some major blunders in his career but more importantly he got a few very important things right. I am grateful to him for that, especially his teachings about being a light unto yourself and exposing the whole con that is organised religion. People trying to organise a religion based around Osho’s so-called legacy are delusional. Osho was dead against organized religion and all for a religious quality in one’s life. This means, amongst other things, that there exists no need to visit any shrine other than the one that exists in your heart. If Koregaon Park was bulldozed and turned into a drive-in movie theater it would make absolutely no difference to my life. That is because I have integrated the worthwhile things I learned from Osho into my life. All this crap about the ’21′ is just so dead that I can’t relate to it (never could). For me, sannyas was always about celebrating life today. Sannyas was never about the past, yet so many sannyasins appear almost completely engrossed in it. Take the beginning of this thread as an example. Does any of this 21 carry-on actually mean something to you? Does it seem important to you? Will any of this help you on your brief sojurn through life? Does knowing about any of this make you a better human being? If the answer to any of those four question is ‘yes’ I sincerely suggest that you get in touch with Reincarnation International immediately and request a life.
Teertha, I’m sure we could spend a very pleasant afternoon sharing our views. If it were to happen I suggest inviting Frank along to prevent us from taking ourselves too seriously. I don’t want to leave anyone out, especially Parmartha, Dharmen, Arpana, YS, Chetna, and of course dear Shantam, SN’s very own village idiot. As for the 21, well, they have had their chance to throw a party and look at what a shambles they have made of it. So, sorry 21, maybe some other time.
Lokesh, we can form our own circle of 21. Frank can be the leader. Shantam can be secretary to Frank.
Ha!!!!
Frank’s more than capable of forming a circle of 21 on his own.
In a better world, Frank and Lokesh would stay at the Gateless Gate at number 17, telling everyone who goes in how meaningless it is to waste their time there….This would have made the experience complete in one day, without having to wait for the collapse of the commune in the desert of Oregon,etc…a great service to humanity.
YS
Two hounds on either side the gates of the underworld.
I can see it…
Vicious sharp teeth, but if you stroke them, they`ll love you!!
It all may take a little longer than one day…
Although I`m sure that it’s possible by leaping around heavy breathing and all the other ways to watch your breath and reclaim your oneness with all there is, that it’s not strictly necessary to have to endure the the tragi-comic shenanigans of fat, thick Punjabis, slippy, slimy Gujuratis, pissed-up relics of the British Raj, Teutonics trying to set up the fourth Reich, Swami Richard Dawkins versus marble-kissing magic ashes guys and so on…
But, it’s good to be grateful for a little enlightentertainment on the way…
I am….
But really, Osho’s edicts about the 21 were so daft (21 people agreeing on everything, only dealing with mundane matters in a spiritual org whose main tenet was there’s no division between mundane and spiritual), you really wonder whether he had been knocked off his trolley by the drugs he was being dispensed by the erstwhile descendants of Jack the Ripper and Sweeny Todd!
Either that, or it was a device, zen master style, an impossible question to get disciples to bang their heads against a wall, koan-like, until reaching a dead-end, then breakthrough…
Trouble is, judging by the scenario, most of those guys have actually cracked their skulls and damaged their brains on the brick wall in the process…
Oh well.
Back to the drawing board.
Zen masters are probably past their sell-by date.
Not only Osho’s teachings will ultimately disperse, One day even this earth too, and i think that would be consistent with what we wanted anyway…
Is there a need to kill the child at his birth, because one day anyway he will die?
Few nuts can always find the right argument..
‘Few nuts can always find the right argument..’
Shantam, you are living proof of that.
Disperse does not mean ‘die’, or any such nonsense. Disperse means scatter, spread, diffuse, dissolve, etc. Many times Osho said, ‘I will be dissolved into existence’. His teachings must disperse — dissolve — in order for them to plant seeds in many. The option is to concretize them into rituals, statues, scriptures, churches, organizations that have copyright on his wisdom, etc.
Find it boring looking at the work of the Rationalists…Like in the rest of our world, basically an Overweight of rationality, it destroys lives spirit. Normally, the more Rationalist should serve the beauty, not trying to dominate, rule or making money from it.
Nothing is going to disappear…Hello!
Most of you are so cynical and only look at sanyas from “where I (!) am right now. I am doing this job, listening to this other guru, being in this relationship etc. What I like about Shantam is that he is trying to broaden the view for others too. You need to be open to fall in love with one person (boyfriend/girlfriend thing, remember), but you really need to be overly open to fall in love with the Master. And finally, you really need to be open to love all people, almost impossible. Love all fellow travellers…impossible. So, how to be one with everybody, if so cynical? Even accepting two other people’s opinion to be as truthful as yours…However, I enjoy this.
Yes, that’s why I am still for an ordeal, but maybe an ordeal by battle, one by one, would be the better show till one gets enlightened.
Its a joke
It would be more amusing if it were at least a little bit funny.
Oh yes, after posting, found it no more funny, too. People discus their concern about Commune/Resort and Osho’s heritage; I amuse myself with Comics about an ordeal at “Pasha” with Nintendo Wii.
What to say on that: “So, how to be one with everybody, if so cynical?”
The question of becoming one with everybody by doing ( need to be open ( that creates mental pressure ) ) and would be an outside approach; for me, it’s of self-realizing at the deepest core. From the roots, humbleness for oneness rises not from being open to an outside Idea of how one should love. Oneness is possible, I guess only by the inner understanding what the Self is. Anyway, Oneness is “One”, one Self, the same (Sâman) Self.
Came across a quotation written by one Charles Bukowski:
” The problem with the world is that intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence….”
Sounds quite true on a certain deeper level…And as I see, with Osho´s inspiration it is still not impossible to change the basic structure of human creation in matters related with religion and spirituality….
Shantam, Bukowski basically stole those words from W.B. Yeats. His were more poetic:
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
I think many of the writers at this forum, who are discussing those 21 Inner circle members are not aware that Inner Circle got cracks within days of Osho leaving the body.
How long tigers and donkeys, cats and monkeys in our inner self can entertain together, once ring leader is no more there.
As I came across one long-term western sannyasin’s comment on facebook group, ” Save Osho Pune and Samadhi”, five famous members termed as Hollywood Gang, simply went back home without making any fuss. They had a fear that their lives would be in danger in this messy affair when famous two were hell-bent to impose their dictates. Incidentally, one of them, Yogi was running a power pack group, ” Cutting the Roots of Fear”, with a subtitle, ‘It is not group it is not therapy, it is surgery!’
They were not replaced.
Chunk by chunk, many of the remaining simply lost interest in the joy imposed upon them by their compassionate master. Few group leaders just wanted to be leaders only in their group format.
One or two died too in the early years and one quite prominent member, almost the right hand man of big boss, simply went to Punja-ji with his girlfriend for not coming back to Pune again.
The way Indians are, sticky, clinging and devotee and soft-spoken diplomat type, it was not a question for them to leave the position.
The Indian power couple, Neelam and Tathagat, who created Osho Nisarga, Dharamshala after their unceremonious departure from Pune gave their best to bring Osho back into the multi-layered intellectual and cultural India.
It was during their tenure that best of Indian musicians and artists felt proud to play in Buddha Hall and felt wow! to see such global audience. These people brought much needed positive press and changed the opinion of masses.
It was a sheer jealousy on the part of top three western functionaries that how come these two are getting all the attention. The other Indian Ma in the Inner Circle did her best to pour all kinds of jealousy into the ears of Jayesh, so much so that out of fear that who knows, with the patronage of Indian politicians, Tathagat may make their stay difficult in Pune, so a pre-emptive strike, the man was stripped naked from his ashram-in-charge position before the house-packed gathering during the evening meeting, as he was accused of taking a gold chain from “lost and found”.
So during the first 10 years, i.e till 1999, 21 were reduced to 10, and here too, four or five of them have no duty but name, almost like ministers without portfolio.
I think during this time, two or three new members were added in the shrinking circle but these people also left without giving any reason.
Circle apart, the most shrewd and cunning man taking care of ashram finances, the CFO, Mukesh Sarda, who used to go to the bank every day with the bags full of cash, made his position strong once Tathagat was reduced to the books sale representative.
Interestingly enough, it was not just east-west clash but also Anglo-Saxon hegemony against the German members and an intrigue between calculative Gujarati and impulsive Punjabis.
As most of us know, during the terrorist attacks in Mumbai five-star hotels, Jayesh and Mukesh were present in their rooms. No need to say, top guns spend their time more in Mumbai than in Pune…As Mumbai is the hub of wheeling and dealing to buy favours and security at premium price.
From 2000 onwards, the term Inner Circle is not used any more. Instead, it is called Management Team, where at the front are three or four Indians whose strings are held by the close confidants of Jayesh, the most prominent is Yogendra, younger brother.
In nutshell, a Banyan tree is being uprooted and the space is filled with designer flowerpots.
“But this is one of the basic psychological insights of all seekers: that whenever you defend something, it means you are afraid”.
“Sometimes you just have to pee in the sink.”
― Charles Bukowski
‘Forget about the twenty and focus on the one.’
-Lokesh
Teertha, thanks for sharing the poetical wisodm of W.B. Yeats. Truthfully, I have heard Bukowski first time yesterday, but Milton, Yale, Yeats, Wordsworth…
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
PS – I don´t mind when status quo-loving, best-of-the-best of Osho sannyasins put me in the “worst” category!
Mmmm, yes, Yale is a very fine writer indeed – they don’t make ‘em like that any more, do they, Shantam? Have you read quite a lot of his work then? I’m particularly fond of his ‘middle period’…What do you think?
Middle period? Wasn’t that during the time he was flirting with Buddhism?
I do believe it was, yes, Lokesh. His earlier work had always resonated with a finely observant eye for the what one might call the psycho-spiritual undertones (motifs, even) in the most ordinary of human environments, but he really came into his own in that ‘middle time’, prompting some critics to regard him as a literary incarnation of that ever-elusive ‘eastern spiritual essence’. (their words, not mine!).
No wonder Shantam brackets him with Wordsworth, Milton and Yeats – Yale’s buddhist inclinations put him well on a par with those ‘giants’, don’t you think?
You would know, of course, Lokesh, that Yale was apparently particularly popular among the more highly-educated elite circles of northern India, believe it or not, which, I imagine, is how Shantam came across him.
It goes without saying, Satyadeva, that you are obviously a holder of the key to these great mysteries. Thank you for devoting your time to this important research. The world would be a sadder place without your esteemed presence.
As Mahatma Bukowski was fond of saying, ‘That is what friendship means. Sharing the prejudice of experience.’
Sorry for being (partially) off topic, but this piece from Rob Brezsny is too good not to share it, it seems he has written it for us!
Certificate of Exemption from Enlightenment
This document certifies that
_________________________________ is immune to the lust for enlightenment and is exempt from the need to seek enlightenment.
This document also certifies that
_________________________________ has seen through the fraud of the enlightenment con game and is excused from further clawing and scraping to own a piece of that specious reward.
This document further certifies that
__________________________________ is free from the temptation to be consecrated as enlightened by any guru, saint, holy person, or religious organization that claims the right to do so.
Finally, this document certifies that
_________________________________ has already been enlightened a million times in a million different ways anyway, and that seeking even further enlightenments would be redundant and even greedy.
To ensure the continued validity of this document,
_________________________________ vows to regularly renew these three understandings: that it is impossible to ever reach a complete and permanent state of enlightenment; that there is no single state of awareness that constitutes enlightenment; and that since the nature of reality keeps changing, the nature of enlightenment keeps changing as well.
If he was forced by his parents going for enlightenment and Master, but not because of his own asked question, I understand that he became frustrated. Who cares about enlightenment if man knows his roots? Those roots are permanent anyway. Awareness to me is the realizing of those roots. If I forget those roots I am unaware of my self. This Self is permanent and not changing. Many Sannyasins got frustrated with their search, went for marriage and now enjoying what has been given by society. Maybe it’s too a result of Sheela’s impact. What makes the search greedy are the expectations one has about his search and the so-called enlightenment.
Master was distributing confidence to the disciples, how to create the key to everlasting truth and happiness.
Disciples were beaming with confidence to reach the kingdom of Godliness as opening the doors will not be difficult anymore, they have the master’s key within…
Alas!
It did not turn out as desired.
Life decided to remove all the key-based locks and install Number locks!
I tried all that: meditation, Poona, at very young age for many years, then marriage, career…I could still go for the society. But it’s boring, Titanic boring. Even I do not want drop good living. I have such intense longing…If I drop dead tommorrow, meditation is only worthwhile thing that I have done…It’s also only thing worthwhile I have given to my child, “normal” friends, work..but it’s not easy, somebody here said it here really funny: “we are like monks, but get more sex..” I did like that one. So, tell everything the rest about 21!
Having read a few more posts since I made the assertion maybe I should have qualified that riff really…
‘We are like monks but [some of us] get laid more’
could be more accurate on reflection.
I like it that everything is talked here to the max. You have actually been really cruel about everything. So history is being written, excellent. To the smallest detail (sorry about spelling, writing this from bed, with iPad, being lazy). Then, what if…?
Are you sure you mean cruel?
People in their fifties, who talk asinine, specious, childish bollocks. That’s not cruelty.
Unrelenting bluntness, yes, but not cruelty.
The cruel posters have long gone.
Frank’s not cruel. He’s jus’ bein’ friendly!!
I also like that everything is talked here to the max. And cruel,yes,we are…But basically it’s what cannot be said when in an Osho center that is coming out here.Repressed feelings, not about your parents, lovers, etc…but this time about Osho and his organizations.The ultimate chatarsis technique…So everybody join the group and throw out everything! Be total!!
The decline of Life at Osho Pune is somehow connected with the rising real estate prices in India and specially seven big metros; Pune is one of them.
With rough estimate, the properties purchased and renovated from time to time with disciples’ money had not cost more than 50 Million US Dollars till 2002. I think today the price will be worth One Billion Dollars; 20 times increase in a decade’s time!
Wonder is that any business house based in Pune would not hesitate to aquire this at a short period of notice.
For Osho seekers it is a big drawback as people who were in the control of finance think they have the complete right over the activites around Osho..:.
I’ve gone all quiet because I’m reading the beedie wallah’s ‘The Ultimate Medicine’. And that it is. Highly reommended.
If they got an offer they couldn’t refuse for the Pune resort site it would be sold off tomorrow. Plenty of decent-sized Spa properties round Goa and Karnataka on the market. Less pollution, better tourist infrastructure and handier airports.
Fresch…your post above with the new coined phrase, “Titanic boring”…seems like longing of all those young ones who came to Osho Pune with pure heart and intensity and added something in their being which is asking for something MORE, that more which is unheard in the society which produces more and more..
For me, Osho leadership will be success only if they create that atmosphere which is welcoming to new and old, active meditators and pensioners.
with this i agree
from my point of view it would be already enough the first two points:
Entrance fee 100 Rp. and no more banning, everyone can come in again.Then we see what happens.
One of the comments from first, and one suspects, only time visitors to the resort is how unfriendly people are in general. A cheery greeting elicits suspicious looks. The teachers, such as they are, could do far more to engender group bonding but most of them are so far up their own arses that they either don’t know how to facilitate that happening due to them being useless teachers or they are so full of status ego that they simply don’t bother. Some degree of predation seems to happen too. Older men teachers with much younger swooning lovelies in tow.
I have the feeling yours is a very interesting contribution but i don’t understand much of it…….Translation please?
i suppose the “teachers” are the therapists…right?
Teachers. Therapists would have spent five grand-plus euros on Humaniversity training. Not sure many at Pune have done so. Source I cited uses teachers throughout.
Individuals employed by the resort who stand at the front of groups of paying punters doing ‘show and tell’.
HTH
I got a mouthful four times within two hours of arriving at the ashram for the first time in ’79, which I at that time took as a failing on my part, but one of the things I eventually got from the ashram was that I did not have to say yes to every twattus headus upus arsus strutting around, and by the time I had left, had resolved something to do with thirteen schools, in that I’ve not been bullied, nor do I bully, or did anyway, since.
(My friends and I in the Midlands avoided Medina is another point, because of the unfriendliness and snottiness. )
People come to sannyas having suppressed what I shall call nasty. That comes out first in people, or wimp, and takes as long as it takes to get past. (This is not meant as a definitive statement. Just a few quick words. Bit more to it than that, I know. )
Most old school gurus, Osho included, tend to either keep the boys separated from the girls or, in Osho’s case, encourage promiscuity. Both work in the sense that this generally prevents people bonding deeply on an emotional level. And thus the gurus receive what they crave, adoration and lots of emotions. Osho was a classic example of this phenomenon. Look at the photos of energy darshans…an ocean of wild emotional energy to swim in and play with. Osho often said he did not need disciples…perhaps a form of reverse psychology, because it certainly didn’t look like it. Up on a podium like the ZZ Top of the spiritual world and then into a Rolls Royce in time for an early lunch, the ladies fawning at the master’s feet. I don’t see anything wrong with that but I see it as a mistake if you think it is something other than what it was.
I also think it is all right if seekers don’t switch on the charm to newcomers. God (if such a phenomenon exists) is not your uncle, he simply is not a nice guy, look at the world he created for us to live in. Looks like a great party until you wake up one day and realize your so-called temple is just a bag of blood and bones that has planned obsolescense hard-wired into it and if you are in any ways attached to it you will put in some time in the suffering zone.
Well, a smile is a frown turned upside down, Lokeshji.
I’ve no axe to grind with the resort. Good luck to ‘em, but it’s a poor hospitality business that doesn’t encourage its staff to smile at the paying guests.
Medina seemed full of posh southern sorts and a few exotics, but I only called in the one weekend and we were all so young.
I do remember having my Lancashire accent imitated quite broadly by one twat.
Never went back.
I read the news today, oh, boy
Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall
I’d love to turn you on….
Yes, it was grim.
We might have been poor but, by gosh, we were miserable.
It’s quite easy to reason logically and still be wrong.
Logic is bollocks
[Bertrand Russel]
Bollocks!
[Wittgenstein]
God is Dead.
[Nietzsche]
Nietzsche is dead.
[God]
The original 21 names were put out at the beginning of this string.
Shantam (and no-one else) has offered a current list. We thought that Shantam was an “authority” on all this as he obviously wants to be the new broom CE of the Ashram/Resort.
To further elaborate:
Sannyasnews knows some of the 21 have left but are still alive.
For example
Anando
Devageet
Hasya
Neelam
According to Osho’s original edict, as we understood it, no-one should ‘Leave”, they should stick it out until deceased.
If anyone deceased then they should not necessarily be replaced.
We would be pleased if, for example, one of the four above, or someone close to them, could eludicate why they left, the “rule” about leaving which they broke, and whether they were replaced.
SN Editors.
I doubt there is anything mysterious going on. They probably had better things to do. One of them lived in our neighbourhood for a while. I like her, but we were not close friends. She was a straight shooter who found a wealthy lesbian lover. For a while they lived in a fab house that they bought from Maitreya (RIP) and his partner. It had one of the biggest private pools I’ve ever seen, replete with waterfall. Mrs 21 moved on somewhere else and I think opened a meditation center. She was an active meditator herself. She enjoyed life and I quite understand why she probably could not be bothered with getting bogged down in the morass of resort politics. She quite simply cut out a life for herself wherin she had far more rewarding things to do. Who could blame anyone for doing that? The 21? Ranks right up there with most uninspiring topics ever.
Yes, it would be nice to have the possibility of understanding something about it, in part of all the personal feelings and bla bla bla.
I don’t have much in the way of personal feelings concerning the 21 or the resort…more dead than the Dead Sea, if you ask me.
Unfortunately, you are not the only one being in the universe; not even in sannyasnews, beloved Lokesh.
Whatever gave you the idea that I believed I was?
when one types, Osho inner circle in google search, one of the top is the link below, the open letter of Neelam to the top three functionaries of Inner Circle; from ABC countries: Australia, Britain and Canada.
This letter is an historical document to shed the light over the power struggle and mind interpretation of Osho.
http://www.n0by.de/2/rst/neelam.htm
A historical document? What, like the Magna Carta?
After seeing the whole drama about disciples and Master around Osho, one thing I have learned, to have western women as disciples is ok, fine, beautiful, but to have the male species of masculine race as disciples…No, Sir!
A statement resounding with factual flaws and drenched in prejudice, Shantam.
Conveniently ignoring the arrests and conviction of western female ‘disciples’ for colluding in sinister, even murderous activities in Oregon.
And indisciminately damning all male western ‘disciples’…
To respond in kind: But what else to expect from a failed so-called ‘lawyer’, trained in India?!
Don’t worry, Shantam, the likelihood of you having any disciples, male or female, is extremely slim.
Male and female disciples both screw up in different ways. Males by competitiveness, seeking to prematurely equalize with the guru (establishing their manhood before Dad), or the ‘Judas’ complex (selling out); and females by getting too identified with emotional issues and confusing boundaries (Sheela’s weird obsession with the Lao Tzu residents being a classic example, Vivek’s death due to hormonal imbalance/depression being another).
The role of female disciples throughout history has been lower profile and less visible, but doubtless full of as much mischief as the more obvious male ego-activities. What made Osho more unique was his insistence in making his female disciples visible, higher profile. Accordingly, their screw-ups became more visible as well.
According to the man himself three times as many women as men took Bhagwan/ Osho sannyas, but I reckon most of us posting on here are chaps.
Wonder what the M/F sannyasin ratio is these days.
Resort attracts lots of life-laundrying-ladies for sure, but teacher/therapists working there possibly a different gender balance per capita with perhaps more chaps doing that job than women. Maybe out amongst the independent causes more men than women sign up these days.
Anybody know?
Someone did a study on this back in the late ’80s. The sannyasin gender balance ran something like 52% female, 48% male. The ’3 to 1′ ratio is exaggerated nonsense, like the ’1 or 2 million sannyasins’. (Was probably never more than 50,000).
As for why this message board attracts few females, that’s no secret. This board is contentious, edgy, even without the infamous JCPenny. Women seek harmony through fusion (group hug), men seek to define differences through competition (think rams butting horns). Huge generalization, of course, but explains why women tend to shy away from bar fights — unless of course you’re women around Charles Bukowski:
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Women tend to shy away from fights?
Man,that is so last century…
You should get down to any busy town or city in the UK on a friday/saturday night…
Those girls are worse than the boys.
They`ll `mash you right up before you have a chance to say “gender psychology”….
For many men, to bow their head before Osho was like a need-based act, almost like someone takes trousers off before the urologist, surely it hurts self-worth. Therefore it was just a question of time that surrendered ego will surface back with vengeance.
Now, most of such gentlemen in their 60′s and above are the ones who talk loudly for self-reliablity. They speak the same language, they felt repelled in their early years.