On the matter of Surrender vs. Inquiry
or more technically, bhakti yoga vs. jnana yoga (inquiry) — Ramana Maharshi used to recommend inquiry, but did allow that for one not cut out for that path, bhakti yoga (surrender) was good also. In inquiry, one seeks to realise the Self. In devotionalism/surrender, one surrenders to the divine, be that in the form of a symbol, or a living guru.
There was clearly a problem with the latter approach however, and it seemed to me that Osho was trying to address that problem near the end of his life. I recall him saying in Poona I, many times, ‘surrender to me’. But after the Ranch, that approach was dropped — in Poona II I recall him saying, ‘don’t surrender your ego to me — what am I going to do with all these egos at my feet?’ The whole emphasis on Zen, and meditation, in the last few years of his life seemed to underscore that point.
Ramana said that ‘total surrender’ to the divine is impossible in the beginning, but can eventually lead to a total surrender, which he claimed was good enough for dropping identification with physical form and ‘escaping rebirth’ (which I imagine can be understood as metaphor). But he always recommended vicara (inquiry) first. When Harilal Poonja went to him, he was having ecstatic visions of Krishna. Ramana basically told him to drop it and focus on his own consciousness instead — ‘find the one who seeks Krishna’.
In my view, the problem with devotionalism is that it can only really be done by a mature seeker. An immature seeker just ends up transferring unfinished parental business onto the ‘divine’ or guru — turning them into a glorified father/mother. In the Ranch years most of us were still relatively immature seekers, and so the devotionalism expressed then was probably not very mature. That could explain why so many of us fell hook, line, and sinker for the fiasco that happened under our noses.
I would tend to agree with your last paragraph.
total surrender to the divine…..
shaved or not ?
which whole are we talking about ?
teertha says.
“devotionalism can only be done by a mature seeker”
“the seekers in the ranch years were immature”
with the average age at the ranch being 36,(with the nature of averages,most were younger than that),most seekers at that point may have been in their iggy pop “gimme danger” “lust for life” “zorba” stage of life thing…
so what would you expect?
words of wisdom from a guy with his pants round his ankles and his ass bobbing up and down in the air?
devotionalism/enquiry are important sounding words.
people get important banging on about them.
really,you can fall in love
and you can try to find out what the hells going on around here.
and meditate while you`re at it…..
its not rocket surgery!
all this devotional/
ropes ? or ….?
i tend to drift when mixing my highest peak experiences….although thanking the master is essential if she wants to be released before supper…
not too keen on the mature though…. too much cheese in the association… either that or it would need ironing…
although the hook, lines and plonkers are very relevant
One story that Osho told has stayed with me since I first heard it. The essence of the story is that in life one never really knows what is in fact a blessing or a curse.
In 1981, when Osho left for America, I was pretty much ready to follow. Then disaster struck. To cut a nightmarish, two-year-long story short I became critically ill, and had to fight for my life, and on the road to recovery I had to learn to walk again after having been paralyzed from the waist down for a few months…thank god for morphine.
I can remember one day in an intensive care unit, holding my locket, desperately trying to get in touch with Osho, I soon realized my efforts were in vain and it would not work. I managed to garner the strength to toss my mala out an open window. A nurse later returned it to me. I had to crawl through the depths of seventh hell…alone.
In the seven years I spent with Osho there were a few months when I felt ‘devoted’ to him. The rest of the time I was a rebellious meditator. I was always in trouble and made to feel guilty by some of the zen mistresses. ‘You’re not surrendered, swami.’ I suffered mild pangs of guilt a few times when I packed in my ashram job and went to my old home, Goa, for a bit of fun. In retropsect I’m glad I really did follow my feelings and do what I really needed to do. I also feel that Osho gave me a nod and a wink for living my life the way I wanted to and not the way some thoughrally unenlightened people told me to.
By the time the ranch was going full tilt I was ‘mature’ enough to see that it was not for me. Even at a great distance it was easy to see that the rot had set in. I also had to struggle to get my feet again after a long illness and become financially independent. I’m glad things went the way they did and I did not have to waste any more time being tied up in the sannyas movement to the point that others dictated what I had to do in my life. Suffering is perhaps our greatest tool for growth as a human being. Once having undergone intense suffering it becomes easy to recognize those who have never undergone the trial by fire, which only goes to show you never really know what is a blessing or a curse, for had I not suffered I would still not be able to recognise those who have forged a soul for themselves. I don’t feel that having a soul is a given in life and suspect strongly that life in this world is soul nurishing time…so get busy and don’t waste this wonderful opportunity.
The path of devotion might attract people but it never really attracted me. Wise people have something to give and as far as I am concerned I’ll take as much of that as I can and then move on. They can give directions but it is you who must make the journey. Some devotees I’ve known are simply conceited people who think they are holier than thou…others are sincere. I think the path of devotion is perhaps the most iffy, because it is relatively easy to deceive yourself that you are a very spiritual person when in reality you are not. I reckon it works best when you are working in close proximity to a living master, so that he can keep you straight and not allow you to entertain fantasies.
Papaji’s Krishna trip is the perfect example and I appreciate the old fellow having had the guts to share that ridiculous episode in his life. Dressing up in saris and wearing makeup to attract the lord! It is a great example of how absurd the idea of devotion can become if given full rein.
Me? I’ll walk the path of the alone to the alone. It comes naturally and having wandered the fire pits of hell there is little in life that frightens me on a personal level. I care more for others than I do for myself, which in a roundabout way has brought an element of devotion into my life, but this time it is natural, not something that has been imposed upon me.
So never forget that you never really know what is a blessing or a curse, and hanging out in the now is the best place to be and also the best place to learn how to deal with aging and dying. I’d say if you want to devote yourself to anything, service to others might be a good place to start, after having learnt how to devote yourself to being here now.
Hello Readers,
I’ve been trying to surrender to the Lord since learning this new technique from my online seekers magazine , ‘The Dandy ‘, as I found ‘The Be-No’ was getting me knowhere. It’s a great technique which has just one tricky passage which will often test how far a real surrenderer will go to achieve full annihilipilification….
If you are ready and waiting I shall give you this five thousand year old treasure for free, gratis and for nothing…..
What you do is that you find a police station……
Ahh…
I see some of you have direct experience of this already…
well, for those of you who would need the video of the book of the film of then…..
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Next week;
Out of body experiences and ladders… are they really something to DIY for…
Martyn…followed the link and found it very er..ehm…English. But it was appropriate.
Good topic..Without getting into argumentative side of it, I want to make the following comment.
Ramana like J Krishnamurthy reduced the whole journey into ‘ Who am I” (or “observe the observer” in case of JK). But the mystery of existance is really much more than that, its abundant, colourful, playful and that’s Osho’s approach.
I simply put it as understanding/knowing/experiencing (UKE) is important, whether you do it as a means of surrundering or inquiring. Luckily we have Osho available alive in the audio/video media. Every time you listen to him there is so much of UKE. There is so much beauty, a uniqueness. Such a uniqueness in even saying his disciple name like “Nivedano”.. bhoom bhoom bhoom.
Prem, as the saying goes, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. What you are saying about Osho is a projection of your subjective reality, which does not have anything to do with Osho.
The mystery of existence! Here we go. I see it that the idea is to demytstify existance by getting down to the nuts and bolts of who and what you really are; not simply run around glorying in the great mystery with a huge quetion mark permanently hovering over one’s head. Not that much in life is not mysterious..it is. Yet somehow I see this mystery to be lived number as being a part of sannyas programming, which can be a hindrance for those who really do want to wake up to who they are, instead of just talking about it. The greatest of mysteries can be solved by sitting down and silently witnessing everything, without getting into the witness, who is witnessing the witness, who is witnessing the witness ad infinitum.
big witnesses
have little witnesses on their back to bite `em
and so on..
..ad infinitum
Who am I, who am I, who the fuck …am I, surely not one of those who will make big bucks in facebook IPO!
Who am i, who am I and i found out, just emptiness behind the onion layers.
So..home work is done. Can i go now to play Adopted Daddy Ramana!
When Bill Clinton became ex. President, President Jayesh was still here. when John Major and many others became Ex. Prime Minister, PM Jayesh was still there.
Today when most probably Nicolas Sarkozy will be in the league of Ex. Presidents, President of Osho’s main piece of melting island will be still here..
Call it a hole in my devotional being, my inquiry is ” Is this the grace of the master or the power of meditation?”
Shantam.
Seems to me that when growing up, in your childhood,
you got hold of the idea, from one of your parents
probably; that if you bitch and complain long and
hard enough you will get what you want.
You need to look at that.
Shantam, you ask, ‘” Is this the grace of the master or the power of meditation?”
Answer: neither.
In my opinion it sounds more like psychosis.
You are comparing so-called democratic process with OFI? Forget it, Shantam. When was anything around Osho run on democratic lines?
dharmen,
democracy gives choice like kama sutra of many various positions then disciple will choose like customers in supermarket which items to purchase .
anyone who has read a bit of porn can see…
team of two are offering only one position to customers – the missionary position, which is typical of the white-skinned subjects of her majesty like john major and his koan hotline.
spirituality is needing many positions, twos, threes, group, animals, donkeys, s and m etc. like in the ancient khajuraho, not adopted bastard sons of half-naked fukirs in the hindu g-string offering only who am i, who am i, who the fuck am i single posture.
who the fuck i am, i am not wanting to know..
my enquiry is coming from the hole in my devotional being at the bottom of my back.
only “is this the grace of the master
or the disgrace of the master-baiter?”
That made me laugh. Is this the master’s blessing or is it who am I as in who am I talking to and is it the same who is listening? The spirit of the koan lives on.
This I feel is a rumour that “democracy gives choice”. We order peace, instead get “Agni V”. A strange democracy of those foul playing people who Osho condemned always, so-called politicians.
Osho gave us plenty of choice, from Tao to Sufis and Bauls, from Buddhism to Zen and more, plenty of choice. Infact, enough to leave one thoroughly confused. As for the structures around Osho, there was never much democracy and unless Shantam manages to bring in a revolution, I reckon things are unlikely to change any time soon.
“Is this the grace of the master or the power of meditation?”, more likely, as Gurdjieff once commented to Ouspensky, ‘everything is mechanical and goes the only way it can go…’!
dharmen,
i think you will find that the full gurdjieff quote is actually:
“everything is mechanical and goes the only way it can go..so i`m going to the booze cabinet to get some armagnac and vodders and get pissed as a grade 33 idiot, and then shag those disciples who hang around outside my room every night…”
in the generalised mythology of mainstream osho dreaming, gurdjieef is viewed as a kind of john the baptist of new fangled rascal saints, blagging and conning their followers with “devices”,
with osho as the full blown messiah…
now, in the resort they dont want “dead guys with beards”on the wall, so why have a dead guy with a walrus moustache on the wall, even in your mind?
this is all related to devotionalism and surrender:
osho spoke so highly of gurdjieff, as i see it, largely to validate and reinforce the idea of full-on surrender to the chief.
(ouspenski would have been enlightened if he had obeyed gurdjieff etc etc)
osho referred to the ranch as “gurdjieff work”
osho even came up with the farcical idea that gurdjieff had written “tertium organum” “through” ouspenski before he had even met him!
and so on.
after the ranch debacle, where surrender turned out to be largely a criminal scam, why feel nostalgic about such a natural born dictator as gurdjieff?
i dont get it.
his writing was incomprehensible rubbish.
and when he got rich, he spent it on booze, fast cars and birds…he sounds like a footballer!
oh, but it was all a device for the growth of his disciples….yeah,right,doh!
gurdjieff got a weird idea into his head that the invention of the sit-down toilet was the worst thing that had happened to civilisation and as a result
he predicted that the western world would be decimated by illnesses stemming from the belly and the sex organs.
these sort of prophetic pronouncements are part and parcel of masters who are larger-than-life objects of surrender.
(aids will kill two thirds of humanity)
it was a nice try, casting the net that wide…
as a teacher of self-remembering, this could turn out to be ironic as well as innaccurate, as there is an ever-growing perception that the disease that is threatening the modern world the most is now dementia, alzheimers…which is the forgetting and losing of identity….
Frank if you don’t like Mr G, guess Ramana might be a better option.
Afterthought
Is this the pot calling the kettle black?
all these guys are ancient history.
it all reminds me of being stuck in a pub with a bunch of old geezers going on about how great stanley matthews and duncan edwards were in their oversized shorts…..
who cares if there was a guy wandering round the jungle in his underpants wondering who he was nearly 100 years ago…?
likewise, who needs to know what a boozy carpet-seller and self-confessed snake-oil salesman’s patter was in the early 20th century?
not me.
and those bauls were ok.
but you would think that after a few thousand years they could have come up with an extra guitar string.
those guys make status quo sound like ravi shankar!
and “the sufis”as we know them are largely the creations of idries shah`s fertile imagination..
and as for taoism.
“the dao that can be said is not the real dao…”
doh..!
when i was a lad, i was keen on footie.
i asked mr brain ,the art teacher.
“who do you support, sir?”
he said “they dont support me, so i dont support them”
i thought he was a miserable old sod at the time, but i see his point,now.
Well yes, these old geezers, but I don’t quite get it Frank, I mention one line from G. and he’s slated. From a certain perspective you’re right: What does all this matter now?
But what shall we talk about here? If nothing from the past, and presumably nothing from the future. Fuck Frank, that only leaves the here and now!
I like these old guys, I think they contributed something, maybe you see it differently.
It could be that some of them did more harm than good… but how do we know?
On Gurdjieff, almost everything I ‘know’ about him came from books and unless your about a 120 years old or have been travelling the astral realms, must be similar for you. Did we read different books?
Don’t know if you recall a politician called Margaret Thatcher.
( Wash your mouth out. )
Anyway, I hated her with a vengeance, and recall a very uncomfortable moment in the early eighties.
(On top of which I had a trip going that I shouldn’t feel that way, be interested in politics as a meditating Osho sannyasin.) when I realised that I danced around the Margaret Thatcher maypole as intently as anyone who idolised her, was as caught up with her as anyone who idiolised her, maybe more so.
(May even have been something Osho said got through to me. )
Against is as focused on the object as for.
no. read those gurdjieff and ouspenski books.
what a waste of time!
but i have to put those lost hours to some use!
so, thanks to sannyasnews for the opportunity…
don’t you remember his dislike of sitdown toilets and his ideas of how lost the western world was?(as he speeded in his citroen, quaffed some armagnac and lined up another snow bunny)
it was one of the reasons he liked and settled in france, because they still had the old squat toilets.
also, he sang the praises of having a bowl of water to wash your dick in in every time you went to the toilet. this was the wisdom of the east, apparently, and how venereal disease was kept at bay there.
i was impressed with all this mumbo jumbo at the time.
but i was young and stupid.
now i`m old and stupid.
oh well.
yes arpana.
secretly in love with maggie eh?
i`m not that surprised!
but seriously,
“speaking against the guru is another form of devotion”
—chogyam trungpa
those gurus are crafty buggers.
they get your mind by its bollocks.
and remember to try not to think of monkeys when you go to bed tonight!
Frank said.
but seriously,
“speaking against the guru is another form of devotion”
—chogyam trungpa
My point exactly.
so it turns out that i`m in fact a full-blown devotee of these oversized nappy/i am the walrus moustachio-ed nutcases!
to quote your beloved maggie thatch
“its a funny old world”
Frank,
If you had to pick a Tarot card, or cards, to represent your
obsession with the chuddies of mustachioed, bewhiskered
foreign gentlemen, which would you choose?
Arpana,
I’d pick an insect. They have an autonomous life which annoys us. You can’t control them or talk to them or change their minds. They don’t care about us. Surely they deserve a card? Real Masters.
arpana,
good game,good game…
i have just done it.
1st…crowley thoth deck.
queen of swords…
a bare-breasted woman reclining on a throne flying thru the sky.
sword in left hand.
decapitated head of holyman type with beard in left hand….
2.the fool,who in the thoth deck looks like a guy on acid at a festival,but in the marseille deck is a wanderer making his way along the road with a dog biting at his bollocks through a hole in his trousers….
what does that say to you?
sword–right hand
headless head—left hand
i`ve heard that ramana held insects in high esteem.
some of the meditators and devotees couldnt handle them
(you get plenty in tamil nadu.)
for those, he invented fairy stories about reincarnation to keep their minds off the bites.
a kind of hindu startrek enlightentertainment kind of thing…
Well Frank,
You’ve avoided the question, but your reply tells me you are more interested on getting your jollies off than meditating.
avoided the question? listen, pal,
you obviously wouldn`t know a magus if you fell over one…..
i actually pulled those cards.
ever heard of synchronicity?
Frank said.
frank says:
8 May, 2012 at 4:58 pm
avoided the question? listen, pal,
you obviously wouldn`t know a magus if you fell over one…..
i actually pulled those cards.
ever heard of synchronicity?
Getting snitty.
Sure sign youve been caught with your pants down.
LMAO
Roman and Insect.
Interesting point.
Yeah. I get that. Lot in that.
Arpana,
It is interesting how insects feature strongly in mythology. One is reminded of Egyptian and Hindu accounts. They appreciate the bugs. Being so autonomous, perhaps insects are a threat to the ego? We aren’t in control of them. Osho must have said something on mosquitoes or spiders. Snakes also are interesting ( so impersonal) and he said a a few things about them. Maybe there’s something to learn from insects and snakes. Our cats are amazing meditators.
roman,
even an awakened man cant keep control of the bugs in his own room, according to osho.
Possibly Osho’s heritage is that of all golden peoples, the Samadhi within our Self.
Just read the below words of Osho at facebook. Call it whatsoever, Osho was not one of those goody goody spiritual guys running Biri and Chai shops or giving cheeky smiles to see few westerners on the streets of some Indian provincial town.
It may happen or not, His vision was to be the founding father of a neo Multi-national spiritual movement. In spite of claiming to be lazy, every single step of His was in this direction!
” The ‘Word’ Should Reach. People May Understand Today or Tomorrow or the Day After Tomorrow – that Doesn’t Matter – but One Day They will Understand It.
One Thing I Can Say, that Whatever I am Saying is Going to Become the Future Philosophy, the Future Religion of the Whole Humanity ; and You are Blessed to be Co-creators in It.”
with deep devotion and after many years of enquiry,in which the most important insight i have had is:
from side view the human skull is shaped like a question mark,
i would like to offer these words of Roger McGough to our Osho….
” i wanted my castle in the air
but it disappeared without a trace
i wanted my pie in the sky
but you gave it me in the face”
“All you need is cash”
To the new generation of radicals and anarchists in any country i will suggest to hire Frank as the chief consultant. As i see, this guy is an expert by shooting through words for years under the cloak of anonymity and no one knows who this guy is!
Who am I?
I am frank, i am a man (If a woman can write as spicy as i, she will be the right candidate to replace woman CEO of Pepsi Inc.)
My age is around 54-60 years, but i am wiser then my age but younger also, depends upon who is enquiring.
I went to the same school as Lokesh, with the similar motive, to clean blackboard with spit on the palm.
I am not on facebook – sorry, i am on facebook but with different name. I have also some funny sounding Indian name, but i use it only when i want to annoy my parents.
After all, we all have an inner child in us!
Millions g0 to Facebook to find who they are and drink Thumbs up for a source of enlightenment, yet the white-skins still rule the roost and the nappy king still wears his chuddies. I have only one question and that is why after 30 years only me knows what is going on in the Macdonalds franchise of Rajputt-putt? My inner child had its soft ass whipped by those in charge of Osho’s legacy. And what is that legacy? I ask, am I all alone on this desert island? No chappati’s or roti left in daddy’s cupboard. Radicals and anarchists have stolen India’s greatest treasure and now sell in cut price shopping mall not knowing Poona two was only place to be with hobnail boots kicking infidel inner children in modern UCLA campus frisbee party of one, Sarkowski on the slopes. I will not stop breathing until I die.
it sounds like a code-language……
I felt Osho made some valid criticisms of Jung. He felt that Jung missed the opportunity to visit Ramana when he was in India because he was afraid and had too much to lose. Jung was well established and there was a lot at stake.
I was flicking through some books and I came across the following quote by Jung which highlights how he views Eastern and Western mysticism which I thought I’d share:
Between the Christian and the Buddhist mandala there is a subtle but enormous difference. The Christian during contemplation would never say, ‘I am Christ’ but will confess with Paul, ‘Not I, but Christ liveth in me’ [The Buddhist] sutra, however, says: ‘Thou wilt know that thou art the Buddha.’
i find the idea jung was “scared” a bit macho,
like: “whoah, you can’t handle being around enlightenment, mate, i can…”
why should he be scared? just a visit.he would not have had to renounce everything.
paul brunton, for example, milked his connection with ramana ad infinitum, and kept his daft spritual ego rolling for the rest of his life, no probs.
jung was a guy from the old world, a different world.
i would say that he was a mug for not checking out ramana.
curiosity at least.
but why would he neccesarily benefit?
brainy as he was, in person, i think by today’s standards he would have come over as a bit fuddy-duddy.
an old swiss academic redneck from the mountains.
i doubt he had much time for women, poofs or darkies, for example.
realistically,what he probably did miss out on was a nice big dose of acid.
that,probably even more than a meeting with the chuddy-king…..
If not scared of “being around enlightenment” Jung was, according to Osho (‘Mustard Seed’), terrified of death, hence his strong aversion to visiting Rome, home of a ‘dead’civilisation…
Might a fear of the one be intimately connected with the fear of the other? Wouldn’t require a Jungian analyst to agree to that one, surely?!
Satyadeva,
Interesting comment. The Jung cult is thriving. He saw himself as the Aryan Christ, according to an interesting biography. He made unsavoury comments about race and national identity. He virtually became the wealthiest man in Switzerland through his marriage to Emma Jung. He was involved intimately with female patients, who became disciples.Women adored him. The new Cronenberg film would cover this. The short quote by Jung highlights his thoughts on the differences between easten and western mysticism. As you’ve indicated, Osho’s criticisms may be very valid. Jung felt the ‘Chuddy King’ had an ego. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. St.Paul definitely had an ego, he was struck down on the road to Damascus by Jesus and spread the word. Ramana wasn’t struck down by anyone, Jesus or aliens. Also, Osho certainly wasn’t afraid of death. I felt at times he appeared bored being on this planet. Still, that could be my projection. There are times when life can be a bit like driving through the Simpson desert. Appreciate the response.
there may have been a lot of dodgy stuff floating around in jung’s personal shadow, but to take that cronenberg film, which is just a flimsy excuse to show keira knightly in period costume doing a few s and m scenes, as some kind of historical document is really ridiculous.
you`ll be surprised, i have already seen the trailer for cronenburg’s version of osho’s life: “a dangerous guru”.
the plot involves osho, sheela, keira knightly as vivek, some handcuffs and a very large mango…..
I certainly came to sannyas with an us and them mentality. Them being famous, important people, something along those lines. Very different attitudes to status compared to now, and I cant believe I was unusual.
Maybe his remarks were part of a demystifying process, demystifying those we see put on a pedestal. They’ve got just as many hang ups as those who look up to them.
Arpana,
I think you’ve got a point. He made one see the ridiculousness of so much.
arpana,
yeah,maybe his remarks were part of the de-mystifying process, but then again, i dunno, it’s a mystery.
the best way to get those guys we put up on a pedestal down off the pedestal again is to have a guy on a pedestal do it for us.
yeah, it’s mysterious, but it works fro me, i think.
I like that a lot.
Excellent.
I find Jung far more interesting now, understand him better. He says some interesting things.
Not sure I have put Osho on a pedestal.
I just keep feeling connected to him.
Have a friend who’s a barrister and another who is the boss of a rubbish bin collection gang in Walsall. They are my friends. I can’t help it.
Such things are just not that precise. People try to talk about these things as though it can all be said and finished with in a few words.
Some things just are and no amount of picking at them defines, encapsulates.
I have a pictorial biography of Ramana Maharshi which is about 40 years old.
Major A.W.Chadwick ( Sadhu Arunachala) is quoted as follows:
‘I felt the tremendous peace of his presence, his graciousness. It was not as though I were meeting him for the first time. It seemed that I had known him, though I had not been conscious of it at the time. Now I know.’
Under this quote there is a quote by Ramana which says:
‘Chadwick was with us before, he was one of us. He had some desire to be born in the West, and that he has now fulfilled’.
This seems to be a familiar story.
Nappy King is latest export import to babyboomers Wal Markt. Meanwhile British Raj is in Koregaon Park drinking country liquor. This is all Paul Brunton’s doing. He invades Mother India and is writing A Search in Secret India describing Nappy King in way dirty white-skins cannot resist promise of paradise, when the shoe fits. Flight of the alone to the alone begins as they steal homeland security’s supreme understanding and Osho’s legacy falls into wrong hands…alcoholic wife stealer. Osho’s bauls are soon cut off as he rolls his royce on a cloud of laughing gas, but joke is on daddy seekers in Jesus church. Now only I know ahat for beddie wallah in Bombay’s red light district. I have only one question for you. Who is that? Is it a computer? Eskimos with no igloos, because ice melts fast. Cheap bus conductor on Lon Avla run to the cheeky factory. Tell me now!
“koregaon`s wake”
“useless ulysses”
or
“portrait of the artist as a young man (88-90)”?
I wonder is there no website in the name of Shri Punja Ji, the energy fire cracker from Lucknow?
If there is one such like Sannyasnews, i am curious what Lokesh and other Inquiry versus surrender fans will write and how they will communicate with each other!
Problem with modern seekers is almost like problem of abundance. So many books, so many thoughts, so many masters and yet like a block of unfinished construction site, whose builder and architect have died in some kind of freak accident…
how come the women aren’t here eh.. i mean they have to surrender regularly… they should tell us a thing or two really …..
the only thing i ever had wiggling inside me was amoebas….and it was no surrender.. just an unfair fight…
as for the divine….does it want to penetrate all of me ? Will it be a shaft of light or a …..
I await holy instructions from fellow bloggers , on what to do with early morning surrendered shafting .. or premature emancipation…
martyn,
the local heroes around here are an old bloke in his oversized diapers who was wandering around the jungle mumbling who am i?
and a pissed up bald guy with a shaved head trying to shift a few kilos of rotting fish…
and you are asking why there are no women around here?
its not rocket surgery!
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well I’m bloggered..
There I was paying my monthly subscription to the Sun Sea and Sannyas classified advertiser for Spiritual Supplies, after I had been expressly promised the first three issues were free and all my small ads replies were to be delivered in a brown paper envelope.
And blow me down with a tranquilising mantra dart pipe…i get it in the neck. I mean the news .That actually Farmpartha and one of his yard boys Dharmen (there might be two of them) had actually spun me a ruse of very long bailer twine. Why, there were no long-haired girl fluzies awaiting my insights on masters i have loved ,which is always a bit dodgy with women as I admit it sounds a bit off- putting. Like what’s your highest experience of cosmic love..”well erm , i enjoyed a bloke with a beard once with a bald head ..best sex i never had with a bloke”
er yes i meant any previous women at all ?
Well none with beards , though a few had hairy legs, will that do…?
”Next ”
‘some kind of freak accident’….Shreek Shantam, this is simply a projection of your burbbleconciousness from when you were in the womb.
Or to put it in Shantamspeek, vegetarian or carnivore one still needs teeth. The orange and red flowers melt into the void. I am the source of your knockup. Problem with modern seekers is that there are many with season ticket, opening Coke bottle with false teeth, made by German dentist.
Martyn, time to get in touch with your inner Nancy.
“This is projection, that is projection”, an inner child was feeling annoyed to hear all this projection stuff.
So he dared to ask, ” Whatsoever i say is projection. i wonder what is reality, what is truth?”
“What a naive you are. Reality is that what i perceive. Truth is that what i say”, said the inner judge.
Shreek Shantam, inner plumbing is like sewage treatment plant. Nappy King seekers miss lesson of Osho’s legacy like driving wrong way on autobhan and having freak accident. I ask you one question: why does mud elephant leave no tracks as it wades through the mud of human existence, while 10,000 buddhas are controlled by British Raj lackeys in Koregaon Park?
My problem was at least partially explained by a story of a man who was a firm believer in God, had always led a good life, and so he believed that God would save his life when a massive flood enveloped his home. He had to flee to the roof when his house became flooded and clung to the chimney as a rescue craft came to carry him to safety. He refused to accept the offer on the basis of his certainty that God would preserve him as a reward for his faith and good works. Soon the water was up to his neck when a second boat came by. Still he refused. At the point when it was up to his chin a helicopter came his way offering to carry him to safety. Still he refused and so he drowned. Upon his arrival at the Pearly Gates, he was shown to the Divine Presence and immediately began complaining to God that he certainly did not deserve to be abandoned after a lifetime of faith and service. God was sympathetic and said that He also was surprised to see the man there since He had sent him two boats and a helicopter.
http://jackmeier.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/healing-then-and-now/#more-56
but if i percieve the truth of your projections than my inner child can become annoyed by daring to ask “what is truth?”
then inner judge will ask inner lawyer to produce the evidence.
shri halal punyaji will then die in freak accident on building site involving whiteskinned disciples,mutton chops and cricket ball.
dualists will ask “ball or no ball?”.
then whiteskinned inner judges jayesh, amrito and major a w “chuddy” chudwick will fall at feet of adopted daddies and open new facebook account advertising spiritual underwear in global supermarket and make big bucks from onion layers of indian hybrid dishes with funny indian names like balti and tikka masala for annoying dadddy !
we are all having inner child!
Frank, I cannot compete with that one.
lokesh,
competitive gibberish…
the best game in town!
Lokesh don´t be humble. You can surely compete with Frank. It is just your projection that he is a strongman like Wladimir Putin!
Most probably he is a 60 plus ex. sannyasin from Pune one, who like most of that generation still think themselves as 16 plus!
Projection
Explanations > Behaviors > Coping > Projection
Description | Example | Discussion | So what?
Description
When a person has uncomfortable thoughts or feelings, they may project these onto other people, assigning the thoughts or feelings that they need to repress to a convenient alternative target.
Projection may also happen to obliterate attributes of other people with which we are uncomfortable. We assume that they are like us, and in doing so we allow ourselves to ignore those attributes they have with which we are uncomfortable.
Neurotic projection is perceiving others as operating in ways one unconsciously finds objectionable in yourself.
Complementary projection is assuming that others do, think and feel in the same way as you.
Complimentary projection is assuming that others can do things as well as you.
Projection also appears where we see our own traits in other people, as in the false consensus effect. Thus we see our friends as being more like us than they really are.
Example
I do not like another person. But I have a value that says I should like everyone. So I project onto them that they do not like me. This allows me to avoid them and also to handle my own feelings of dislike.
An unfaithful husband suspects his wife of infidelity.
A woman who is attracted to a fellow worker accuses the person of sexual advances.
Discussion
Projecting thoughts or emotions onto others allows the person to consider them and how dysfunctional they are, but without feeling the attendant discomfort of knowing that these thoughts and emotions are their own. We can thus criticize the other person, distancing ourselves from our own dysfunction.
One explanation is that the ego perceives dysfunction from ‘somewhere’ and then seeks to locate that somewhere. The super ego warns of punishment if that somewhere is internal, so the ego places it in a more acceptable external place – often in convenient other people.
Projection turns neurotic or moral anxiety into reality anxiety, which is easier to deal with.
Projection is a common attribute of paranoia, where people project dislike of themselves onto others such that they believe that most other people dislike them.
Projection helps justify unacceptable behavior, for example where a person claims that they are sticking up for themselves amongst a group of aggressive other people.
Empathy, where a person experiences the perceived emotions of others, may be considered as a ‘reverse’ form of projection, where a person projects other people onto themselves. Identification may also be a form of reverse projection.
Projection is one of Anna Freud’s original defense mechanisms.
So what?
To work authentically with other people, avoid projecting your woes onto them. When you see others in a negative light, think: are you projecting? Also understand that when others criticizing you, they may well be criticizing a projection of themselves.
When others are using projection, you can hold up a mirror to show them what they are doing. As usual, this may well be met with other forms of resistance.
oh,i`d be no match fer a glasgow hardman and razor boy like lokesh….
in fact, due to an accident last year on my 79th birthday when i took 3 tabs of acid and tried to catch what i thought was a butterfly, but turned out to be the number 38 bus….
i`m permanently wheelchair-bound now, and i can only stand up when it’s time to empty my incontinence pants….
but you`re right about my mental age….
i`m still up for a good time….all the time…
a few shots on my inhaler…a handful of viagra..then hit the horsepower… and rip it up in me mobility scooter… cruisin’ down to the memory clinic lookin fer chicks…..and a bit of the old ian dury…maybe initiate a few divorcees into some left-hand tantra….
…don`t fear the reaper!
….born to be wild !
…yahoo!!