Sannyasnews do not pretend to have gotten to the bottom of the goings-on detailed below. However unlike almost all our sister sites we invite punters to comment!
Pune Ashram/Resort: Current Economic Strategies?
Adapted from various sources
What is really happening around the real estate belonging to the Osho International Foundation (OIF) at Koregaon Park, Pune, estimated at a value of around Rs 1,000 crore.
In recent weeks, the community of mainly Indian Osho sannyasins – are questioning the apparent gifting of properties by the OIF to an unknown trust in New Delhi, called the Darshan Trust.
The claim from OIF is that maintaining and managing these properties has become a burden.
Questioning them are these Indian Osho followers who have accused the OIF trustees of maladministration and complained to the Charity Commissioner in Mumbai.
The matter came to light in recent months through Yogesh Thakkar (Swami Prem Geet) and Kishor Raval (Swami Prem Anadi), who discovered OIF’s application dated 19 September 2011, to the Charity Commissioner, Mumbai, under section 36(1)(a) of the Bombay Public Trusts Act, 1950.
This application, signed by OIF trustee Mukesh Sarda, proposed to gift six units in Little Woods Coop Housing Society, plot number 22, Koregaon Park, to New Delhi-based Darshan Trust with its registered office at A-34, Defence Colony.
Sarda’s application on behalf of OIF said that the Darshan Trust had approached OIF “with a request for some space to accommodate the teachers and participants of its activities in Pune” and that the matter was discussed in detail at a meeting of the trustees on 14 August 2011.
The OIF trustees decided at the 14 August meeting to donate the property to Darshan Trust subject to the approval and sanction of the Charity Commissioner. The condition stipulated was that the stamp duty, registration and other expenses towards “the alienation of the property” be borne by Darshan Trust.
Armed with documents obtained under the Right to Information Act, 2005, Thakkar and Raval questioned the gift proposal and filed a petition with the Charity Commissioner, challenging the OIF application.
The OIF has not as far as we are aware replied, as yet, to criticism of their initiative. Whenever asked for an explanation, OIF’s trustee and member (management team) Sadhana Belapurkar has restricted herself to saying that “the matter is subjudice.”
On 7 December 2011, Thakkar, Raval and Phulphagar applied for interim relief to the charity commissioner through an application alleging irregularities by the OIF management. The application alleged that some OIF trustees had formed a new company “Osho Multimedia & Resorts Pvt Ltd” in which they had vested interests. Those named as opponents in the application included Mukesh Kantilal Sarda (Swami Mukesh Bharti), Devendra Singh Devol, Sadhana Belapurkar, Lal Pratap Singh; Inner Circle Chairman Michael Byrne (Swami Jayesh); Inner Circle Vice-Chairman George Meredith alias John Andrews (Swami Amrito); and Inner Circle member Darcy Byrne (Swami Yogendra). (The Inner Circle are the remains of the group set up by Osho shortly before his death to run things at OIF).
All this may be a storm in an Indian teacup, but who knows?
one sugar please , keep stirring…
http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/reviews.php3?item=5
Sannyasnews, one of the main reason i love to write for you (other then my page at facebook) is, unlike all your sister sites, you are the only one who dares to look at Sannyas matters in its honest colors, and therein lies the evolution..
As i see, almost all other sites follow the same trend as other thousands of sites devoted to their respective religious and cult founders and that is….people on our path get rose petals while thorns are everywhere else around.
All the cults protect their status quo and established norms with missionary zeal and in the process simply put their dirt under the neighbours’ door!
Sannyas can be different only when we raise the questions about the motives and intentions of the high priests! Our high priests and not of others…
And see…all your sister sites will scream, ‘no no no we don´t have high priests..we are just bunch of individuals together…’
Oh..yes innocence and cleverness can exist together..just like Zorba and Buddha, just like the way one can have the cake and eat it too!
For a seekers resort of egolessness confronted by other egoless seeking seekers.. there’s an awful lot of egos…. how different from all the love in the therapy groups of yore. ( NOT)
it seems more like a typhoon in a tea cup . . . as for me it’s not about speculation but being watchful . . . & I see the law industry is booming
Th ashram I turned up to one balmy, early December night, in 1974 was at that time just a five acre site. But it did it’s job, seekers were well received, and the meditation camps ran well, and were well led. Osho gave discourse on his porch.
So having 5 or 22 acres does not seem to be the point. If admin, maintenance and other costs are prohibitive on the present 22 acre site, then it makes sense to farm off some of the marginal acerage – and that acerage is best in the hands of those who would be respectful of the Resort activities acting as a buffer to the upper middle class Indian lifestyles.
I personally dont see why critics automatically assume that the remains of the 21 are up to some mischief. They are going through correct channels, like the Charity Commissioners.
There is a problem with the Indian tradition. Hinduism is very rooted. Even Buddhism failed to take hold in India, and had to move on to China and Japan. The teacher/disciple tradition in Hinduism is prolific, and culturally ingrained. Osho did “allow” things like birthday celebrations, etc, but very little else associated with that part of Indian culture.
He was much more of a Buddhist Zen Master then a traditional Indian teacher. But that tradition never arose in India, it was an adaptation of Buddhism that found a home in China and even more so in Japan. The worship of samadhi’s, etc is particularly Indian, and whilst understandable, has nothing to do with the wordless communion that is not dependent on time and place.
Parmartha, it is not a question of 22 acres of prime real estate in Osho Pune or 22,0000 square Kms. of some country, it is about perception, it is about attitude behaviour and adherence to the mandate. People who were instrumental in building the ashram around Osho are feeling alienated by the coterie of hand picked yes Sayers.
It is true no dictator like Assad makes a pee around a certain territory, yet citizens of those countries are paying the price with their lives so that next generation has a contemporary governance.
Problem with Sannyas is, young blood is not replacing the old and grey, the people who are playing after the tea break and will not be on the creze next day are not willing to accept their time is up!
As far as wordless communication is concerned it is not the monopoly of O2 (O…O) subscribers, millions of our predecessors have lived it and felt it during all ages and times…..
‘Problem with Sannyas is, young blood is not replacing the old and grey, the people who are playing after the tea break and will not be on the creze next day are not willing to accept their time is up!’
I take it you have well documented proof of this proven fact, primary source material to back up the claim??
From my center I see the world of Osho growing and expanding. Internet hits are in the millions, as are book sales.
The problem of the Resort is that they are not attracting enough visitors to pay for their overhead costs.
Osho is more popular than ever, but people are not attracted to go to the Resort. If people don’t go there, then how will the Resort survive?
Raising prices does not attract more people.
Well Amrito et al can only do what they can do. Ten UK pounds sounds a fair daily entrance fee for a dawn to evening meditation program.
Book sales may be in the millions but it might be that not so many of these people actually want or need to do formal meditations or groups.
What to do?
Seems to me the highly visible Sannyas of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, whose people wore malas and red clothes, and whose lives revolved around centres, and Poona is pretty much over; but this more private, internet lead Sannyas of Osho is thriving, and is just not that visible.
Borat does it again…..this time as the Dictator….very nice bit of promo-sabotage…
if Pune wasn’t so ‘ffing venerational the whole thing could be a comedy show..but i guess we need our timeless first communions with the scared religious behaviour in whatever guise and identity on sale…indian dumbo or middle class protozen.. after all it is India..
did i say scared ?
long live Kim Jong Il… and Osho’s legacy of rebellious non religion, religion of anti-religiosity …that isn’t …or is…. depending on erm…. one’s point of view and how scared you are….
What to do with Osho’s ashes….?
hmmm what a tricky consideration twenty years later….
well if you missed it the first time in my comments above ..
and so that there’s that unforgettable daily laughter and less time wasted on tomb protection…
then, follow yesterdays; Borat’s Oscar Carpet interview…. take a look…
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
(remember the zenmonk with the fireworks in his pocket….kabooommm !..way to go.. Osho….!
be it the birthplace or the residence at the time of death . . . a Master’s place has been /is always a revered place & is a place for the old seekers who need to be recharged & inspiring new seekers . . . hope the managers of his place keep the glory of his samadhi intact
Ten UK pounds sounds a fair daily entrance fee for a dawn to evening meditation program..
Alok John, i agree with you..
Can the readers also get the presumption that you spend 140 UK pounds every year for two weeks of dawn to dust meditation intensive or they must avail such facilites, 140 pounds for two weeks of meditation in a luxurious enviornment..
just forget to ask, ” Is this an all inclusive package?”
Shantam – I like your unintentional spelling mistake -”… dawn to dust meditation intensive”. Dust rather than dusk … very apt. From the beginning til the final exit – all ends in dust.
Greetings. Oh no, same old same old. This is not a storm in a tea cup; it´s a wet fart in an Indian railway station toilet.
Time to write something of a more inspirational nature, before we all get sucked down into that aforementioned lavatory. Whatever happened to the essential spirit of Sannyas? Encapsulated so well in this biblical quote that the old man appreciated and hopefully some of us do too.
‘ See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.’
And not only that they don’t give a hoot about tomorrow either. Which brings us back to this thread. Anyone who thinks or believes Osho’s legacy has anything to do with a pile of bricks in Koregoan Park has missed the point of getting involved with him in the first place, because that is for the losers who want to build a church round Osho, something he spoke about in no uncertain terms…he was dead against it. He wanted us to take it to the marketplace, not become attached to a geographical location. What about the samadhi. Bulldoze it! Next.
I’m a loser and I also really believe in all things religious..(i know there’s an apparent paradox …..but hey no-one’s perfect….) I am especially fond of meeting a large percentage of humanity with psychological problems which they inevitably missname ‘seeking’ and a large wad of cash to spend on themselves because they feel ‘blessed’ and also I like to organise things around a few books or vids and some knowing looks making me believe everyone’s ok really…..and hugging to compensate for my innate alienation from others
…the alternative is meeting clones in an office somewhere in social democracy’s hinterland and drink beer on fridays whilst eyeing up the talent, without any knowing consciousness and no tofu burgers…
please help as i need to fill in my welfare benefits form for this Indian Charity that helps people like me…
Ps I missed the last episode of Star Trek: the Return of the Mime Artist OshKlingon the Klingeeshon and the Will to power.. Its all about taking over the worlds communes without a clue of anything . Especially no sex and no jokes.. .Like they land on a weird planet where everyone copies everyone else’s arm movements and beards .. .its really weird…
Did anyone see it ?
Pps Parmartha believes if we all play by the rules of cricket everything will be fine. Sounds good ! Maybe we should get out our cricketing gear in now ?
Everyone sing .. Red balls in the sunset….
everything will be fine
Red balls in the sunset
Just one of them is mine
Thought you might like this, think there was an old guy with a white beard who said something similar.
marvvelloso….
One can change the railway toilets, but the acidic smell of one´s own will follow every where…People may get old and white but their opinions remain more or less the same, even if they travel not just to far away lands but to far away stars…
And few think their opinion are so refined, there is no need for further refinement…
PS- Lokesh say my greetings to your imaginary young step daughter..It way joy to look her XXXass, as per her invitation.
Lokesh . . . agree Osho didnt want to have any organised religion around him but there are many other things he didn’t want . . . like maybe didnt want to come back to Koregaon Park . . . if possible could you put some light further ?unless ofcourse it is an esoteric matter
Well Kavita, as it happens, I was doing a wee bit of research in order to begin a new thread that might in turn have got us all going full blast and in the process came across this web page http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/rajneesh.html. I’m in sunny Madrid for a few days with little else to do but engage myself in such jolly pastimes…even though I know time does not really exist…there is only now, ommmmmm! The page contains a pretty damning report on Rajneesh…ho hum, but what I found interesting was an email exchange I’d had with the page’s creator, using one of my many nom de plumes…in this case Sandra Johansen. It was amusing to discover it because I quickly realized I was reading something I’d written some time ago and completely forgotten about…quite good, even though I say so myself. Just goes to show there is nothing wrong with a wee lie if it works and, on another level, when dealing with me it is prudent to bear in mind that I’m a prankster at heart so please don’t take anything I say too seriously, even though ‘nonseriousness’ is a tired cliche in sannyas circles.
Now then, you were enquiring ‘like maybe he didn’t want to come back to Koregaon Park’. I believe the truth is quite the contrary. After the collapse of the ranch and being a spiritual rogue and personna non grata on the international stage for some time, Osho probably relished the idea of returning to his peaceful a/c cave in Koregoan Park. A well deserved rest, one might say, after the terrible job he made of organizing a new commune in USA and having to do all those drive-bys in those cumbersome Rollers, most of which weren’t paid for….oh! and let’s not forget all the tranqs and laughing gas that he’d been taking…knocks hell out of one’s nervous system to say the least, not to mention taking those drugs in the company of Klingons (cling-ons…I like it). I enjoyed visiting Osho’s room very much (only once)…a wee bit chilly but all that marble certainly was host to a very light-up-your-neural-channels kind of vibe.
On reflection, I don’t think Osho was capable of leaving anything behind other than a disorganized religion. Mind you, after living two doors down from a large mosque with a very loud PA system for a few weeks in Sri Lanka, if I had to choose between a highly organized religion and a very disorganized one I’d go for the latter any day of the week…particularly on Fridays. Fortunately, I’m in need of neither.
Lokesh after reading the full link
I have to add that J. Krishnamurti once told my uncle in the mid 80′s that ‘ Rajneesh is ok its his followers that are not ‘ this my uncle revealed to me in ’95
And U G Krishnamurti said around 2004 in the presence of an Osho sanyassin friend when she was with him in New York ‘ these Americans will kill me just like they did with Rajneesh ‘
all / the whole . . . truth cannot be revealed verbally / literally at once . . . probably silence does
Shantam, Detective Shantam, that is. I’ve just peered into my crystal ball and I predict that lovely XXX my ass Sagara will returneth, and leave you with an mystery that you will have to use all of your deductive powers to explain away….in other words Kabam! Witchcraft!
Now you have something to look forward to.
Thanks for that link Lokesh .
Though the webpage you link to is overwordy, by about two tons, it has enough material to dip into to undermine that besotted ‘mentally addicted’ so called ‘heartful ‘(read sheep) sannyas manipulation which sabotaged and interfered with the only real dignity we have : the power to announce and act on one’s own initiative, the power to say and mean ‘sod off me old guru fan club nutters ‘ and the primary ‘sod off Osho me old fart.’ ……as and when necessary in full perfunctory freedom…
To put it simply Sannyas was such a crap training ground for anything but the most ambitious manipulators on all levels , that really a lot of it ..and I especially include the Humaniversity, Veeresh’s fascism, Ma Poonam and her henchwomen of the English commune, her ex husband ; the Paul Lowe’s sex abuse maniac Teertha; the psycho manipulation of the Path of Love by the Hanover-Windsor Princess Turiya who upwardly (morganastically) married into Europe’s most dysfunctional family..all of whom spread the sabotage of one’s own discernment in favour of the greater good…which wasn’t..and never can be..by using all their hypno psycho babble…which infected, in turn with serious religious acquiescent veneration , the whole commune at all levels from one’s willy to one’s point on the planet….and all points in between…
All drawn from Osho’s pathetic ……(gosh, no, he’s insulting the dead guru again.Whhatt ?is he allowed to do that here??) injunctions to push the barriers which really led absolutely nowhere, but led to a grand sigh of relief when any obeisance to them or him was finally sent back … by yours truly.
Its also great training for listening to those other wannabe idiots on the ‘non-dual advaita path ‘ who gather all the hungry farts around them who can’t profane their new found oracle in any way lest it prevent them from becoming non-dual.
Its been a struggle here too on SN judging by the copious amounts of posts of mine which have editorially bit the dust, cos they crossed some editorial line. But I consent to that in the full knowledge that on the mini blog of the caravanserai I could jestingly and cleverly spittle my throat out without censoring. It’s a choice i make for better or worse to keep the editors’ privilege on my posts. And yes, sometimes I wish there was an even bigger forum of cowboys and pirates who could go to town on some virtual exchanges concerning oshoified nonsense…..cos I just like to play with my sense of idiotic fun….and here they wont let it through …and what with ‘Frank’ disappearing and jc Pennie being given the three strikes…. it can get a bit dumbo….like daily life i suppose.. not enough Borats or mirthmakers really…its all a bit precious….and linear….
and that’s without even mentioning the **sholes at Oshonews who still wont say anything about anything….ever.
their joke section is so sad .. removing people’s correspondence vitriol and replacing it with daft gags is like reading Womans Own in the dentists.
anyway mostly (here) it’s about Yes-terday..and that’s pretty objectively daft as I have no intention of doing any sannyas ever again in any shape or form..so i guess one day my jokes might even dry up when I find another target audience.(don’t all rush at once in hope..ok i said when, not if )
Still its good to think we tell it like it is for all the world’s innocent folk who just want to be a little bit happier in life or even ..enlightened….
but then ….why would anyone want that ? As there’s no-one home when it happens ….to enjoy it…and ‘it’ isn’t a thing anyway
)
duhhhhh
oh and listen to Osho now and again.. just stay completely free to chuck the video out the window if it doesn’t suit .. you can always start again from wherever you are .with no loss .. but a lot of experience….i did….and have only a few flesh wounds to prove the journey.. nothing really…i’m brave like that….
nite nite
and that’s from the inside looking out….if however you were on the outside looking in..(never laying your ass on the line for some ritual abuse, or rather interpersonal spiritually sponsored abuse.).. .then you haven’t paid the ferryman…and you’re not entitled by karmic order to use the phrase ‘told you so’…
Martyn, in the world of sannyas, were you like an helpless tribal girl getting raped, manipulated and sold on London streets?
I hope you can formulate at least 500 words paragraph which points towards some kind of gratitude for the sannyas.
Why we cannot see that first time in our memories someone has brought monastery and market closer to each other..where law of jungle meets with the law of angels!
I am looking for that lion who think jungle is his Pvt. Ltd company!
When in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf Heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself, and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featur’d like him, like him with friends possess’d,
Desiring this man’s art, and that man’s scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least:
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee,–and then my state
(Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth) sings hymns at heaven’s gate;
For thy sweet love remember’d such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings’.
William Shakespeare
(1564 – 1616)
Lokesh, Have you brought witchcraft from Asia with you or it is part of your heritage to slash the wrists of those who are nerving you, and that too through black magic kind of things?
Just to remind you, even to think about such things is cruel, brutal and cunning…Few things even as joke i don´t like..
Lokesh . . . actually since it’s all about self judgement . . . that link you posted here . . . sounds very much an autobiography of a grass eater . . . well frankly you & Martyn have been my Richie Benauds & see myself being more of a Tom Moody & Shantam is fighting to be Ranjit Singh . . . actually I am a bit outdated about this game these days
on how conservatives become less willing to look at the facts, more committed to the views of their tribe, as they become better-educated:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/this-tribal-nation/
A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”
“Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”
Accuse me thus: that I have scanted all,
Wherein I should your great deserts repay,
Forgot upon your dearest love to call,
Whereto all bonds do tie me day by day;
That I have frequent been with unknown minds,
And given to time your own dear-purchased right;
That I have hoisted sail to all the winds
Which should transport me farthest from your sight.
Book both my wilfulness and errors down,
And on just proof surmise accumulate;
Bring me within the level of your frown,
But shoot not at me in your wakened hate;
Since my appeal says I did strive to prove
The constancy and virtue of your love.
Sonnet 117…
William Shakespeare
Well played Sir.
(n_n)
bravo
Nightingale’s song
this morning,
soaked with rain.
Issa
This was meant as a reply to your sonnet Martyn but it seems to have slipped somewhere else …
One Zen Master used to say, ‘ When I reached my Master, for three years I was sitting by his side, and he would not even look at me. Then after three years he looked at me, and that was a great joy. Then three years again passed, and one day he laughed at me, smiled, and it was a benediction. Then three years again passed, and one day he patted me on my head, and it was tremendous, it was incredible. Then three years again passed, and one day he embraced me, and I disappeared and he disappeared … and there was a unity.’
And Home Is Not Far Away. ‘The Path of Love: Discourses on the Songs of Kabir.’ p75. Osho
Rajni,
I do love Kabir. Here was a wild man not in the vulgar sense.
You’ve reminded me how discipleship isn’t as simple as many make out.
As one ages one is less drawn to externals and one is dragged kicking and screaming, perhaps, to a silent space, dropping the noise out there. Like Osho I can cope with the music of Hariprasad. I’m also reminded of the wonderful lines of William Butler Yeats who served his apprenticeship and and produced great poetry up until his death and didn’t get lost in externals.
Sailing to Byzantium
An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul claps its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress,
Nor is there singing school but studying
Monuments of its own magnificence;
And therefore I have sailed the seas and come
To the holy city of Byzantium
There should always be Byzantiums for those who cherish monuments of magnificence.
Obviously the female equivalent of Kabir is Mirabai. I have a wonderful translation of her songs by Andrew Shelling published by Shambhala Press. The book also mentions a recording of these songs by Ma Taru. It is an unreleased tape from Pune One. It is a privately circulating tape without any instruments. Shelling raves about the recording which is so beautiful in Osho’s presence. Musicians have also raved about playing in the Samadhi.
Rajni, I’ve read page 75 and a bit more. The stages of being a disciple are interesting.
Reading this sutra,
I suddenly began to laugh….
without knowing why.
Went to see the captain, strangest I could find
Laid my proposition down, laid it on the line
I won’t slave for beggar’s pay, likewise gold and jewels
But I would slave to learn the way to sink your ship of fools
Chorus Ship of fools on a cruel sea
Ship of fools sail away from me
It was later than I thought when I first believed you
But now I cannot share your laughter, ship of fools
Saw your first ship sink and drown from rocking of the boat
And all that could not sink of swim were just left there to float
I won’t leave you drifting down but whoa it makes me wild
With thirty years upon my head to have you call me child
The bottles stand as empty now, as they were filled before
Time there was and plenty, but from that cup no more
Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few
Don’t lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools
Jerry Garcia
There is poetry as soon as we realize that we possess nothing
~ John Cage
Kavita,
John Cage was not stuck in the cage of age.
Have you got his book ‘Silence’?
Roman . . . Iam sure he wasn’t or else he wouldnt be writing what he did . . . have you read his ‘empty words ‘ ?
I wonder if Jerry is grateful now that he is dead?
Boethius knew his time was up in prison but he wrote some beautiful words. Inspired by ‘she’ to go within.
‘But it is rather time’, saith she, ‘to apply
remedies, than to make complaintes.’
Boethius, The Consolation of Philosophy ( ca. 52 A.D)
oops nearly forgot ….Shantam isn’t vegetarian, so doesn’t really relish carrots.. still as long as he’s spouting being grateful i’m sure no-one will notice the lack of effect Osho had on his tummy…(bloody ungrateful if you ask me !! )
Don´t just blame Osho sannyasins, market is wide open and game to chase the babes and the bounty is always on the move….
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stewart-j-lawrence/anusara-yoga-scandal_b_1272471.html
In a brave new world, new Zen, Sufi and Buddhist stories need to be created. Why it is so that all these stories originate in that time frame which was just after the stone age.
The neo story about a Tibetan monk settled in Dharamshala is spreading like a wild fire.
In his own words, ” I was on the way to a friend for the studying of scriptures. Sun was rising and the mountain peaks were reminding me about my homeland, land which i have only heard about.
I was feeling sad and silent at the same time. Suddenly Buddhist ring tone of my mobile brings me back to the real life. For a second, i felt disturbed but then it was an MMS from my school days friend, now a priest in New York.
Surely he sends me time to time many messages to keep me up to date with the western world but this one just took me away. I was lost felt like disappearing in the big void. I was no more….
MMS was the once in a life time photo of Angelina Jolie´s right leg at Oscars!
I don’t believe the Samadhi should be bulldozed. I also believe pilgrimages can transform one. Rumi’s funeral in 1273 had ‘representatives come from every religion – Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus.’ In May 2006 two of America’s most important poets and translators of non- Anglo poetry, Robert Bly and Coleman-Barks, went to Iran. Among the places they visited was the sanctuary of Hafez’s walled garden. They also went to Saadi’s tomb. The experiences were profoundly moving. Both emphasised how Whitman’s grave and other great poets should be honoured in the same manner that these great Persian poets are in Iran. I don’t think I need to go through the line of mystics who have a Samadhi, however, two come to mind, Meher Baba and Rumi. Anyone been there? I’ve met leading Meher Baba disciples and poets who make the journey regularly to drink from his well. Places are important, getting back to place is important, the fate of place is important. A Thervadan Buddhist monk who is a close friend of mine has just returned from his meditation retreat in Lumbini where the Buddha was born. He belongs to the forest tradition of South East Asia. He has told me about the retreats he has attended, places where famous monks have their remains and passed to the other side. Ajahn Chah’s relics are contained in a Stupa at Wat Pah Pong, Thailand. Many lay and traditional monks go there. Theravadan Buddhism is the least ritualistic of Buddhist schools yet they honour their enlightened ones. Before my friend went to Lumbini he asked for an Osho book. I gave him the Diamond Sutra. When he returned it to my letter box just before the flight these where his words:
‘Rajneesh explicates the sutra with precisely the lucidity that I had hoped. The simple narrative capacity of mastery.’
If Robert Bly, who hasn’t put on his toga senilis, can visit places to honour genius, perhaps a few more of us can? The young people I’ve met who are into Osho feel no different from how I felt when I first met him. One can too easily become a cynical senex and ridicule the enthusiasm of the next generation attracted to Osho. I remember making the effort to get to Poona in 89/90 because we knew he wouldn’t be around. I only have to think of the courage of this man and how he came out to see his people in those last weeks. This was a gift. There are also sannyasins who were close to Osho over many years who I respect for their integrity. One can too easily generalise about things. This site certainly allows one to voice one’s spleen but what good is it to your heart to express your spleen. There is much more to Osho than a resort. There are now wonderful centres, particularly in India, which are attracting newcomers.
On the importance of places to meditate and reflect.
‘We will endeavour to shew how the aire and genious of Gardens operat upon humane spirits towards virtue and sanctitie…….How Caves,Grotts,Mounts, and irregular ornaments og Gardens do contribute to contemplative and philosophicall Enthusiasms’.
John Evelyn, letter of 1657 to Sir Thomas Browne
‘Our relation to the natural world takes place in a place.’
Gary Snyder, The Practice of the Wild
‘Architecture’s (ultimate) importance resides in its ability to accelerate society’s transformation through a careful agencing of spaces and events’.
Bernard Tschumi, Event -Cities
A lot of creativity has been put into Poona and other centres. If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen, don’t hang around.
I know you don’t have to be in a centre to reflect on a raindrop.
I’ve had some extraordinary insights, experienced some incredibly powerful meditative spaces staring in the Queue at the supermarket.
Have wondered if that idea of special places to be meditative is an egoist notion, as in ‘I’m special. I meditate and go to a special place along with the elite to meditate.’
Is that “staring” or standing in the queue, Arpana (or maybe both?)?!
I guess that idea of “special places” etc. can be used to think oneself ‘special’, esp if there’s any misplaced ‘elitist’ notion involved, but it doesn’t have to be, it could just as easily be evidence of great aspiration, couldn’t it? Or even both?!
As usual, it all depends on the individual…And only the individual can know where he/she’s coming from…
Self-honesty, common sense and a fair amount of humour would be useful re this little conundrum!
Both actually. LOL.
Shows how aware I am. I checked the damn spelling three times.
the nice thing about having an insight in the supermarket is that if it doesn’t make you happy you can always take it back and ask for a refund….which i find very reassuring
….why, i was just down at the bargain basement of Lidl the other day… in between the discount pasta .. when it hit me….
( i blame the stacking by the job centre spotty yoofs myself… can’t get the staff you know)
Satyadeva – you say, ‘… As usual, it all depends on the individual… And only the individual can know where he/she’s coming from…’ Yes. And No. We think we know where we’re coming from – as we throw together words to post, trying to prove a point, or else destroy someone else’s point. Or just trying to communicate a thought. But who’s talking? What baggage is being put into words? We fossick around in our heads stringing sentences together, trying to be smart or trying to act the fool – whilst trying to pretend we’re not – or trying to just be ‘honest’ – circling each other tossing out more words, often like rocks rather than petals, and we are like rats in a labyrinth – the same well worn paths being constantly used – the bell rings and we are off, looking back over our shoulders to see who is behind us with their rocks, or increasing our speed to catch up with someone we see ahead of us – there is always someone ahead and behind all of us. And that person is always ourselves. So we pick up the rock hurled at us and we hurl it randomly back. The labyrinth is crowded. And dark. And we keep running and hurling. When the odd rose petal sticks to our faces – stuck there with all the sweat from the running, we stop a moment. My God, a petal? Who threw that? Our minds start questioning the intentions of the petal thrower. What did they/I really mean? Is this petal actually a small sliver of rock in disguise? So when Roman talks of ‘special places’ and mentions the gardens of the ‘resort’, the rocks begin to fall on him. Ah, the voices say, he must mean this. He must mean that. He thinks he’s ‘special’. Why? I for one have not been back to Pune since Osho died. But that does not mean I cannot appreciate the efforts in creating the gardens there. The therapies, the zen tennis, the parties, the pool and events, the ‘chic’ eateries, all mean nothing to me. And perhaps it is the same for Roman. This post is becoming its own labyrinth. Of course. Has to be. I am talking to myself I realise. Using words again to attempt to describe something wordless. Another fool I am the first to admit. But then again, by ‘admitting’ that I am a ‘fool’ may really mean that I think I’m not a fool and that I ‘m playing some stupid ego game … and that I’m argggggggggggggggghhh
‘… Let the words pass, let them flow; it’s okay. You be indifferent, you be neutral. And they will buz around for a few days. Then by and by they will feel that they are neglected; by and by they will feel that they are not welcome. And when words start feeling that they are not welcome, when thoughts start feeling that they are not welcome, they start disappearing. You are no more a host to them. And one day you will be surprised: a few moments have passed – the rose has been there, the sun has been there, the green trees have been there, you have been there – and not a single word has crossed…’ Osho. p 128 Discourses on Songs of Kabir.
Rajni.
I rarely have difficulty expressing myself face to face with people, getting across a point to friends;, but so much is not available when writing, the absence of body language, visual clues is so problematic; and I certainly havent got the energy to write down something I might be able to speak in a second, speaking extempore. (I’ve edited this fourt times. )
You made a great job of expressing the difficulties in this post though
thanks – the weird thing about this site – sannyasnews – is that it seems to perform a strange function for me – after posting I wander off to ‘work’ and often find myself totally focused – whatever that means – I find that the workday ‘crap’ is less ‘crap’ and I’m just ‘there’ doing what I have to and just being ‘there’ – ; )
My inner landscape has evolved yet further, over the last eight, nine months, because of interactions here, to a degree which amazes me, and, loathe as I am to admit this, as much to do with the bits I would rather do without, as the fun bits; so warm stroke givers and cold prickly givers all, I thank you.
PS. This Zen Story says something about an element of all that is available through getting involved here.
“When I see smoke beyond the mountain, I know there’s a fire;
When I see horns beyond the fence, I know there’s an ox.
ZENRINKUSHU
PPS.
You lead the way to this one Parmartha Swam. Thanks.
Really struck a chord with me. Stayed with me.
thanks Rajni for this clear insight. It’s easier to throw virtual rocks than “real”ones. But even a virtual rock can “hurt”a so called virtual thought or feeling. I wonder if i, and fellowbloggers would express themselves meeting face to face, the same as on this forum. There would probably be more life expression and feeling. I see that s.n is a way to make contact, but actually,speaking for meself, it’s more a way to make contact with my own opinions and thoughts,and agreeing or disagreeing with somebody else’s.
I can conjure a picture of who is writing a comment,but i don’t know and i have’nt met any of you, only Parmartha and perhaps Martyn. But that’s all right cause then i see that i’m talking to myself, as i always am……,the only difference is that when i see a person in front of me i might have the illusion that i’m talking to somebody ! So vatt iezz die finaal konkluzioon????..Iezz,..zatt i am not gierr and… you are not gierr!!!
soo vatt ies going on????? All thiess forr notting?
Karima, the fact that you are thanking Rajni for her post surely means that, for you, it meant more than just ‘nothing’?
Roman,from a relative truth it means that i’m agreeing with her insight.
But i also want to look at it from an absolute Truth,which means everything comes out of Nothing. I also see that as soon as i say that or write it down it becomes a relative truth. So nothing can be said about the ultimate truth, but still i try,there is a desire to understand,which has it’s place i guess, and also the dawning that i don’t know anything! So coming back to this forum, i see that the responses of different people on a certain topic are all so varied and say more of the person themselves,than about the original topic!
Actually how i see it, is that the topic is more a disguised way of asking who are You? like in an enlightment intensive and then the mind starts to rambledebamble…….
You say you know me, Karima…. in what context? Maybe Karima is not your sannyas name??
Well, Rajni, I guess once we start thinking about ‘where we’re coming from’ we might well be more or less lost…
I like the distinction between thinking and ‘looking’, looking meaning to see directly into the truth of the matter. If we can’t do that then I suppose we might need someone else’s help?
You’re right. After all, I wasn’t born with the name Ma Deva Rajni …
I’ve had an insight…due to their rarity I’d better share it now as tomorrow never comes…
The full memory of the sannyas Osho legacy must be preserved, therefore the whole thing should be turned over to a theme park for adults.
As with all insights, details are sketchy but would include a ghost train ride for past life therapy, a helter skelter ride for re-experiencing commune relating, a wonky mirror room for seeing your real self, a bouncy bouncy bouncy castle for tantra sessions, animatronics of Osho supplied by the klingon corporation of osheesh rajnosh, a seventies naked group room just above the ashes run by the humaniversity..linking sex, death and superconsciousness in a multiplex venue, a room to exchange unreal money for contrived experiences by throwing coins into a therapists charity bucket quickly followed by a lecture on letting go, a radio interference room where everybody understands the message differently, a dress code room where you can strap on wings and a halo before entering a hall of mirrors,
A watersplash ride in the dentists chair and finally an us versus them glad-iatorial show of lawyers throwing everyone else’s cash at each other in a word exchange contest of who said what to who, finishing off with a bollywood zen dance finally where everyone sits around looking happy to be daft.
The venture would be financed by a sodexho-arun keerti neelam jayesh klingeesh multinational with a hot line to the Creationist museum of Utah,which has experience in running these types of family fun and faith centres
M – hmmm, I think The Simpsons did something like this already – or maybe it was South Park? But you could always pitch the idea to their producers hey. You might land a guest part …
btw, the most pertinent of your lines is this: ‘… a radio interference room where everybody understands the message differently…’ Certainly is applicable to contributors to sannyasnews.
Is their no Veggie group or therapy, somewhere in the world but not connected with Osho; where many of ex – sannyasins could go and heal their wounds of their sannyas period?
Somewhere it looks quite obvious that people feel their investment, their thirrst has been misused by the structure around Osho or it can also be possible these people have put their too much saviour expectaions on Osho.
always handy if you tried but can’t find the truth… try lying your way out….
even though I may sound like ‘ I know it all ‘ its probably just the opposite . . . and since I know Shantam personally I tend to take more liberties with him . . . I do wish it could be otherwise . . . I apologize here on this forum for doing so
I guess do or say whatever . . . there is no way out . . . only in
In the past, impact of master and massiahs were known through the followers and disicples around..Now that system is getting out dated.
Master and massiahs are known by the number of clicks” on the youtube!
Spiritual world has evolved..Hurrah!
Review: ‘Kumare’ shows how easy it is to become a spiritual guru
http://www.dailycamera.com/entertainment/ci_19987738
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
and if anyone finds a kumare ‘watch online’.. post it here please !!
Martyn, I guess we are going off topic but thanks for the post. R.K.Narayan, the great Indian writer, has written a novel called ‘The Guide’ where Raju, a tour guide, becomes one of the greatest holy men of India. The poor bugger is mistaken for a sadhu. Narayan shows how easy it is to become a spiritual guru but how difficult it is to remain one. John Updike’s novel ‘S’ is based on Rajneeshpuram. It is an epistolary novel where S becomes Kundalini and the guru Arhat turns out to be not Indian but an imposter whose real name is Art Steinmatz. The novel being a depiction of WASP self-delusion. One of the first Osho books I read, ‘I am the Gate’, has Osho pointing out ‘I’m not a guru but I recognize your need to be a disciple’. I also loved the story Osho told about his apprentice Nirmala Devi, who became an international guru. The Indian psychoanalyst Sudhir Kakar has written about Devi and her connexion with Osho. He also has an interesting chapter on Osho in ‘Mad and Divine’ titled ‘Childhood of a Spiritually Incorrect Guru’. I find Dr. Samuel Johnson’s account of Kit Smart, who was put in a mental asylum for his religious ‘mania’, very moving. As Johnson said, ‘If Kit wants to pray in the streets of London, I’ll pray with him. ‘
Btw Rajni you make a convincing read because of your use of your own language for the abandonment of a certain online interpersonal spoofery in regard to validating mutuality and establishing the highest common multiple amongst our values.
Twas ever so…..
In your analysis of what you offered as contradiction amongst bloggers , then of course in the world of ideas nothing is sacrosanct, not even solace, silence or spoofery.
Language attempts to confer upon itself ambitions beyond its uses. Hence organised religion.
If we have a scale of implicit values it’s only transparency that wins out. In religious circles I found that transparency was , despite its virtues, late in visiting, and that mockery would provide for amusing interludes whilst waiting. It also offered the speaking of truths in brevity which acres of therapy/ guidance would fail to establish as a code or mores of reliability.
If I took anything from Osho it was that.
‘take freely the peace… and silence will follow’
To best effect only the producer of any genre of satire knows whether like a stand up comic , the humour is authentic and well received and generative or whether it hits a raw nerve…. and whether more humour is then applied as a dressing , or whether its left to fester. That is the art of satire. When used in non fascistic circles it is in the service of life itself and costs much less than the ambiguity of religion, is freely available and finds a mutuality much sooner than years of professed wanderings in aesthetics. It also opens the same wonder up. Or at least it can do , without collateral damage.We aren’t in playgrounds where the vulnerable are name called by bullies.. this is a free resource available to each person’s intelligence, by inheritance and freely exchanged. There’s no therapisseds microphone.
The validation of sincerity and heartful ‘hurtfulness’ has been vindictively abused by all manner of therapists and bullshitters in sannyas , until it became a joy to behold. By saying ‘one felt hurt’ was often a cover for ‘ if you don’t apologise , I’m going to break your neck , but as I’m religious I’ll start with the soft stuff first.’ Better to mean what one really means… its like drain cleaner then.
‘I feel hurt’ was hardly a sine qua non of getting someone to acknowledge how they just shat on you…… but telling them that if they didn’t suitably apologise and /or pay for the damage then there’d be hell to pay was more effective. Not exactly in the lexicon of sannyas with its ‘my stuff your stuff get stuffed ‘ routines.. but it made sure that lines were drawn sooner than later….. girls know this ‘stuff’ implicitly… and therapists used it all the time….and you see it at work amongst the hierarchies.. they knew what power demanded of the suckers who fell for their vulnerability routines. In fact I would suggest Osho’s henchmen/women were/are amongst the most .. and this is no joke .. most removed from admitting their failings than many many others whom they serviced….
and the test was mockery… they could never spoof themselves up in the service of common humanity… but used iconoclastic ambition acts of so called religiosity to perform sublimity where they lacked it.. in their humanity…..
osho and his words and sannyasins are many different things….one should not try by association to claim via him what we do or don’t lack…and thereby become burdened by in identity. Ambition and religion have co-existed for donkeys years….
Satire AND spirituality not such a long history I’ll wager…are not in the service of mammon… but are excellent bedfellows. Osho’s hilarious biographical tales of mockery are there not to be adored but to be used, just like his silences are. Strangely though he didn’t self apply this great talent on himself or asked others to do the mirror on him.Not even as a growing adult do we get anything more than his ability to be sincerely mocking others. there was no re-direct….Surely an imbalance in his own peer group which wouldn’t or couldn’t match him.No wonder he ended up just amusing himself, with neem baba his only mate.
I’d suggest that’s not a contemporary model for those mortals of us who have to rub up against each other everyday of the year.What with? Holier than thou without auto-self piss taking….purleeesssse
I’ve requested a ‘Take the Peace out of Myself’ national sannyas day of self recognition and reconciliation. here before on SN….I’m not sure many would get the joke..I’m happy to be proved wrong ..even at my own expense….a laugh’s a laugh even if i ‘pay’ so myself…
now back to those animals.. i have a cat on my lap as i type and a husky alsatian cross who thinks walking and smelling the pee and dogshit is far more important…..
he may be right…
Evening Martyn – your dog is right of course. I also usually have a cat, or two, on my lap as I post. Or more often than not, one of my cats is actually walking backwards and forwards repeatedly across the keyboard, trying hard to get my attention, so that at the end of my post, when I press Post Comment, I’m not sure who really ‘wrote’ the words. The cat or me. She’s looking at me now with that look cats have – all knowing. And speaking of the animals – Not sure where you live but have you come across those bumper stickers – Save a Cow, Eat a Vegan? Funny guys hey …(shiver)
Martyn,
We obviously read very differently and we all misread. I don’t think anyone has their own language and perhaps that’s the point Rajni was trying to make. Language could well be a virus.
Roman,
Is that an antithesis to my thesis?
… watch out here comes some synthesis to spoil the notion…waaaahhh…
(clanngg whooshhhhh….sound of previously held cherished idea crashing into invisible black hole )
you can never be too careful when positing a construct…
M – I understand the idea of positing a construct but in regards to some of your particular post(ings) – ‘positing a construct’ should perhaps be read as ‘posting a construct’ … Just leaving out the ‘i’ changes the whole meaning. Language is a slippery slope and gender is, as you know, but a construct. As indeed is sannyas.
Yeah Roman. It was William Burroughs wasn’t it who first said that language is a virus. And then Laurie Anderson ‘sang’ about it. I’m thinking that there’s a virus on sannyasnews Wondering just how many people on this (mostly male) site are in fact multiples of themselves. Just a thought.
After going through few of the critical comments about Soso resort management, the new arrival thought to confront the right hand man of the big boss. The right hand man answered, ” All non sense..these thankless people at useless site like facebook are just spreading the false information. We are expanding. Look at the Statistics , five years before we were paying 320 thousand rupees per month to Sodexo for their man power services. At Here and Now, this amount is almost half million Rupees per month. it shows clearly, we are expanding and going strong!
New arrival was not full satisfied. So he thought to take the enquiry few blocks away to the editor of new Osho magazine. Mr. editor replied courteously, ” I think Osho´s work is expanding. People have the thirst. Look three years before, when we got this loss making magazine from the resort, their were only few sannyas businesses supporting us through advertisement, Now even Pepsi wants to have the back cover. Would you like some Coke!”
Karima, the reply button didn’t exist after your post. Weird. You write in a way that reminds me of someone else on this site. A male. Perhaps you went to the same school? I did like the ‘rambledebamble’ We need to be entertained. The whole absolute etc can become a weary motif. All life long the same questions, the same answers. Starving off that nothingness.
Hi Roman, is’nt it more like starving off the somethingness? Yeah i know ,just words,untill we are actually left with no ideas about ourselves or others!
Rajini, thanks for sharing the contents of one funny* bumper sticker, ” Save a Cow..Eat a Vegan”. Many times such one liners on cars, auto rickshaws and trucks bring so much innocent wisdom, almost like words from Sermon on the Stones..
Most of the time, i eat meat not just it is convinient but also as a reaction to the value structure of so called Vegetarians, most of them concentrated in India.
For example, most of the money lenders in India are Vegetarians till the extent, no onion no tomato, yet many of the marginal farmers commit suicide or work as bonded labourers because of the unjust and unfair terms and conditions. Does their death and suffering touches their “senstive” heart?
I doubt, so i eat meat.
And yes…i love to eat pork,as more than billion and half treat this animal dirty, filthy, not eatable..and i simply don’t want to be clean & pure like them!
… … … …
Shantam nice try (cough).. but you didn’t study logic in your Law diploma apparently…
what will your nirvanaesque new Pune commune be called then..
Burger-Land ?
Porky’s ?
Lard-asses?
there’s a special non-osho non-sannyas religion for you…it might suit better than all your somersaults
…>
‘never was… never tried’
( Its called …Shan’t-yas)
Hi M – I am resisting adding to your post to Shantam … resisting, resisting … squeezing my fingers into a fist so I can’t type … so … resisting resisting… but I am reminded of a dream I had many many years ago. I was walking down a street at night. A market place. I was barefoot. And as I walked I noticed that the earth beneath my feet felt strange – soft, pliable. Not like earth at all. On looking down I saw that I was walking on bleeding carcasses – sickened, I tried to run, but …
Perhaps the pathways in Shantam’s new commune, instead of being marble, could be likewise – this would be quite appropriate as the word ‘carcass’ also means ‘a ruin’, or the remains of something when all life and meaning has been extracted. Oh, and yes, before anyone posts back and reminds me that this dream was in fact mine and therefore the ‘ruin’ was mine – my ‘path’ being a ruin etc etc, don’t bother. It was shortly after this dream that – yep, you guessed it …
Hoi Parmartha, since there was no reply button under your question i’ll answer here. I used to live in London,and i know you from that time. I read once that you were introduced to sannyas by a nurse,if i remember well, was that meself! Since i’ve been living back in Holland i spell Garima with a K, cause the K here, sounds like the G in english.
Yeah, looks like I cannot reply either ! Your’re right.
Was in 74, I owe you!
Love
dear Parmartha, love too!
Hi Karima,
Did you know another Dutch sannyasin by the name of Ma Arihanto. I believe she made a doco on Osho around 1996. I knew her in the early 80s.
She had been involved in film production.
It was Amrito ( Jan Foundraine) the Dutch psychiatrist who introduced her to Osho in the 70′s. I liked his book on Osho and Krishnamurti.
I believe he’s still alive? I meet him in Poona 2. Intelligent guy.
I loved the Au Bout Du Monde bookshop in Amsterdam. Amazing how it still exists.
Hi Roman,yes i think i know Arihanto!,have’nt seen her though since we worked together in the ashram kitchen.
Birds are flying ,birds are flying..so what?
For millenuim it is like this, it is nature, not the Zen!
Zen is when you cut the wings and still birds fly…..
( Neo sannyas agenda)
Shantam – the birds say ………………………………………………………………… and …………………………. and …………………………………. and ………………………………………and
Karl Marx´s famous quotation is, “Religion is the opium for the masses.” If he is born now, quotation can be modified as, ” Neo spirituality is the Prozac for the everyday life.”
Is this a proven fact?
Karl Marx was an antisemite. Has with its incitement against Jews provokes what we know as history. He was a Mason, like his friend and supporting him financially Industrial F. Engels, too.
Karl Marx was himself a jew and whether he was anti-semitic is apparently open to question, not necessarily an established fact. You believe he was anti-jew, others don’t.
“Has with its incitement against Jews provokes what we know as history.”
What does this mean, please?!
And what does “Industrial F. Engels” mean?!
Will not enter the topic broadly. Find that the apparently positive influence of this communist construct of ideas basically destructive to the people, so I see Marx as a bad example, nothing more.
“Destructive” to all people then, not just jewish people? If so, why single out jews as his alleged major ‘victims’?
Apart from rejecting his ideas, are you suggesting that as a freemason he was necessarily aligned with the powers-that-be, therefore some sort of hypocrite, ie not essentially interested in the freedom and well-being of the people, despite all his writings proclaiming that he was?
“To all” because in the name communism are millions of people killed. “Jewish” they tried give the responsiblity the Jews.
Especially the ideology of Kommunismus has provoked a reaktion of Nationalsozialism in all its destructivity. Two brothers made of the same hand, made of the same long term interest.
That way are created two blocs, for keeping tension up, some small corrections for a desired Result. That way it seems easy of being a Nostradamus.
Not really hypocrite, they follow their Interest very loyal, but dancing on two wedding.
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/marx_k.html
There is no reason to suggest that Dr. Heinrich Karl Marx (1818/05/05 – 1883/03/14) was a freemason, although anti-masons have made the claim. The following interview by R. Landor1 proves nothing either way but does suggest, in context, that Marx was not associated with Freemasonry.
If Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were Member of the “League of the Just” a french secret society. If it was so they had Masonic ideas and goals.
Osho Gibberish and Let Go Meditation
Gibberish Meditation Steps:
First Stage: Gibberish
While sitting, close your eyes and begin to say nonsense sounds – any sounds or words, so long as they make no sense. Just speak any language that you don’t know! Allow yourself to express whatever needs to be expressed within you. Throw everything out. The mind thinks, always, in terms of words. Gibberish helps to break up this pattern of continual verbalization. Without suppressing your thoughts, you can throw them out. Let your body likewise be expressive.
Second Stage: Moving In
After some minutes of Gibberish, there is a drumbeat, at which point the Gibberish stops. Osho’s voice then guides the listener into a space of deep silence, stillness and relaxation, saying, for example, “Be silent, close your eyes…no movement of the body – feel frozen. Go inwards, deeper and deeper, just like an arrow. Penetrate all the layers and hit the center of your existence.”
Third Stage: Let-Go
Another drumbeat and, without arranging yourself, just allow yourself to fall down “like a bag of rice,” so you are lying, utterly still and relaxed, on your back as you are guided even more deeply into a silent stillness.
Fourth Stage: Coming Back
At the final drumbeat, Osho’s voice guides you back to a sitting position, with the reminder to carry the glimpse of silent awareness one may have had into everyday activities.
“Gibberish is to get rid of the active mind, silence to get rid of the inactive mind and let-go is to enter into the transcendental.” – Osho
“Remember, the first step of the meditation is Gibberish. Gibberish simply means throwing out your craziness, which is already there in the mind, piled up for centuries. As you throw it out you will find yourself becoming light, becoming more alive, just within two minutes.
You will be surprised that when Nivedano [the drummer] gives his second beat, to enter into silence, you enter into silence as deeply as you have never done before. Just those two minutes have cleaned the way. In fact in those two minutes, if you put your total energy … the more you put into it, the deeper will be the following silence.
Any child can do Gibberish, it doesn’t need any training. From the very first moment you are almost trained. Gibberish needs no training, nor does laughter need any training. If you can do Gibberish you are cleansing your mind of all kinds of dust that goes on gathering. And as the mind becomes silent…there is nowhere to go other than inwards. All roads are forgotten; there remains a single one-way traffic.
Just for a day or two you may hesitate to go that much inside. Who knows whether you will be able to come back or not? It is a playful, joyful exercise. There is nothing to be worried about, you can go as deep as you want… not knowing Chinese but speaking Chinese, not knowing what they are saying but saying it very emphatically, not bothering at all who is listening…. Nobody is listening, so you can say anything you want, you are not going to offend anybody. There is nobody other than you.
That will make you saner than you have ever been, because you throw so much garbage that you were holding. Do you think your gibberish is coming from the sky? You are carrying all that garbage, throw it! Just do it totally, enthusiastically. Don’t be bothered whether it is Arabic or Hebrew or Chinese; you are allowed to speak any language that you don’t know.
Just avoid the language that you do know, because the language that you do know will not bring your nonsense out, it will be very grammatical. Meaning is not at all the requirement. Just for two minutes give an opportunity to your existence to be meaningless. And you will be immensely shocked to know that just within two minutes you become so light, so ready to enter into silence.”
Source: ” The Miracle, Chapter 2” – Osho
Shantam,
‘Religion is the opium for the masses’ is a misquote.
Marx did refer to religion being the opium of the people but what he said needs to be seen in context. Why not do a bit of research? Your ‘guru’ was often taken out of context. Terry Eagleton, a fine writer, has written a recent book titled ‘Why Marx was right’ and it is written in layman’s terms. It is published by Yale University. Incidentally Prince Charles once said that people like Eagleton should be silenced. Eagleton’s autobiography is a moving account of how a member of the Irish underclass makes it to the most prestigious universities in England as an academic. Eagleton exposes the whole academic hegemonic system. Eagleton is one of the many Marxists I’ve come across who are the salt of the earth and help the down trodden. As for Marx being an anti-semite and a freemason well that is laughable. It would be interesting to use Marx’s ideas when looking at the world of sannyas. It seems we are all steeped in class prejudice and ideology is unavoidable.
We seem to be getting a lot of mumbo-jumbo about Freemasons. I’m surprised that no-one has referred to Swami Puja Debal’s ‘The Brotherhood’. Debal wrote a few interesting books before he died of a brain tumour. He changed his name by Deed Poll from Stephen Knight to Swami Puja Debal before his death. I still have a card with an Osho photo and the name change.
Yale, is the home of “Skull and Bones”
Yes, you are right. The great astrologer and master of conspiracy theories Ramaswami Krishnassawami Narayanaswami Suk has written an amazing book on the topic. He once said that the Moon twenty-three degrees of the Serpent promotes great Magical Ability of the Eye, to which the lunatic would easy succumb. Avoid exhaustion by speech. Intense Love nature prominent, rarely suspicioning by the Nasty, with inclinations to Purity. When Sensuality rules there is danger of Fits.
If only he was talen seriously. Thanks
Well I knew you could be eloquent Roman, but you have surpassed yourself here.
Arpana,
I’d love to take the credit. But the words actually belong to Samuel Beckett. Of course Preetam will no doubt claim that Mr.Beckett was also a Freemason and no doubt a member of the Illuminati, or was that the Spumati? Or perhaps the Spam-ati?
You mean he wasn’t a Freemason. You mean some people, apart from me, aren’t Free bricklayers. Holy Moly
I’ve not read the Becket. I will now.
))
Arpana,Harold Pinter has a wonderful story about being helped by Beckett. Claimed he wasn’t in Beckett’s league. I took a small extract from his novel ‘Murphy’. Beckett was one of the most generous souls on the planet. Spokesperson for the wretched and downtrodden. As you know Osho often quoted ‘Godot’.
‘Take care, we may not have much time to spare’. Mose Allison. Loved by The Who.
Roman.
I acted in the Dumb Waiter years ago, and tried out for Waiting for Godot, but didn’t get the part. (Am dram production. ) The guy who got the part is one of my closest friends, another sannyasin, who took sannyas completely seperate to me round about the same time, and we met up to tell each other about this wondrous sannyas taking phenomenon, without forwarning, came round the corner and were both in a mala and red. No words can exspress the feelings.
Arpana,
There was no reply button to your ‘Dumb Waiter’ message. What a moving tale about your close friend. I think you can download Pinter’s account of Beckett on Youtube.
Here you go Roman. Same button problem.
Those moderators are Zen sticking us I’ll be bound.
Pinter’s account of Beckett on Youtube.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Arpana and Roman – no reply button to the Pinter clip on Beckett – Just as Beckett would have had it no doubt … ; ) Just wanted to say – Thanks. Wonderful. Bravo. Superb! Encore!
Hi Guys, please be aware that tht reply button disappears after 7 levels of ’nesting’, i.e., a reply to a reply, to a reply, to a reply, etc up to 7 times. The comments structure is not designed as for a forum, so there are some limitations. Suggest you just go up to the next reply buton or better start afresh at the comment box at the bottom.
Actually I am also more for Spumati and sweet cake
Gurdjieff was right about Armagnac. Bloody expensive!
यदि मैं शरीर छोड़ भी दू तो भी मैं अपने संन्यायों को छोड़ने वाला नहीं हूं।–ओशो
Even if i leave my body, i am not going to leave my sannyasins….OSHO
I hope someone from the resort reads this..I have translated in English for their convinience…
Arpana, if we all would talk gibberisch to each other all the time what a different world it would be! There would be so much more feeling and expression,cause the so called meaning in the words has gone, what a relief,……………… hidishi makkushoni yastefootonah yobimah shokoh ha!
Better than dynamic:))
Karima, you are right about Arihanto. What to say about words!
Worstward Ho:
‘Worsening words whose unknown. Whence unknown. At all costs unknown. Now for to say as worst they may only they only they. Dim void shades all they. Nothing save what they say. Somehow say. Nothing save they. What they say. Whosesoever whencesoever say. As worst they may fail ever worse to say.’ Sam Beckett
Karima,
I got to know Arihanto in the 80′s. She was with a sannyasin who inherited a fortune and is a generous soul. Owe Swami Deva Vedanta a lot here. He was part of the scene. They gave me an insight into the power games before the shit hit the fan in Oregon. Amazing how the Osho circus opened up our world. No-one forced me to make my long pilgrimages and on a shoe-string. ‘Resorts’ have their place. How about one in the Westbank and Gaza? Any ideas about how to bring down the ‘Wall of Apartheid’? Take care
I like the magic and understanding of the Atharva-Veda. By reading it becomes more and more clear what the Blackmagic is, and which force and interests be at work. These people forcing humanty with all their force of pressure and fear into a wrong oblation. Because of the so -called “Goim” they fitted with all their means discord within our folk, and the result is evident visible.
Hoi Preetam, the story of good and evil,duality, has been going on for a long time,i read somewhere even before Adam and Eve there were “expirements”, always coming from the Source Who want’s to expierence Itself in everypossible way! And how can i point the finger to somebody else,if the same “good and bad”are in me too?
But it’s easier to point at the “illuminatie”the super rich and the bankers,and the “dark”forces behind it! But if this is all a play in order to wake up,then the bad guys are as needed as the good guys!
Karima, especially if we experience oneness of “Self”, a responsibility rises for the Whole. What you think Osho dit, a Pink Sunday
Yes, I know I am not Osho, but why I am not allowed being my/our “Self”? If we know the “Self” the Shadow becomes visible.
The response was little over motivated, but sometimes I can not understand why most, especially friends of New Age, just don’t like to see, and say it’s only conspiracy theory. It is not, what is happening within our world. A little Elite is sitting behind locked doors, called Bilderberger, Trilateral Kommesion, Skull and Bones and many more, and over all the hermeticism of the Freemasons.
Why all this, just for our best. Conspiracy,whatever we call it, these people are creating Walls and Ideologies for domination. Who is it always, not the so-called Mob, is making war? It is a Result of these groups, keeping their hermetic conspiracy. These people are criminals, Waylayers, Pirates they should go cleaning Fukushima, to show god will.
It would be helpful if you would list your sources for these statements, Preetam.
What about regimes such as those of Iran and North Korea, or Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, not forgetting China? Are they equally in thrall to this hermetic conspiracy?
Or is it just the Western world?
But why even bother to search behind appearances for evidence of dangerous folly when the world has been arguably descending towards destroying itself for many years?
Or are you going to tell us that these ‘secret societies’ are responsible for the dominance of virtually everywhere by Western intellectial materialism, with all its selfishness, greed and ignorance of anything other than matter?
If what you’re saying is undeniably the truth, how come Osho and other great Masters have never told us about this? Any ideas?!
Sorry, all i am writing sounds like accusation, is not wanted of me. My English maybe enough for a restaurant order, but for talking about causes and effect, no not good… better I am quiet.
SABBA DANAM DHAMMA DANANA JNATI — the gift of truth excels all other gifts. And my truth is love….OSHO
The satire below is dedicated to the majority opinion makers in sannyas community..sorry no bloody community just a little crowd of individuals-
I need a country whose currency and borders are secured. i also need a country where plenty of jobs are available and also health insurance is top class. I also need a country where relations are easily made and broken and children are still taken care of…
A voice came from the above,” And what you are going to sacrifice for all these demands?”
“I give my religion away”, said the new age seeker.
Hallo Martyn and Co..
Can you, please, post your latest photos, i am curious to see, how cute you look!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2111663/Fruit-veg-make-cuter-Best-incentive-improving-diet.html