Veena was asked on one of her returns to the “Resort” in the nineties after Osho’s death - where she had spent many years when it was Osho’s Ashram in the seventies, to “edit” a book she had in fact edited in the seventies called “The Grass Grows by Itself”.
In it’s first incarnation Osho personally checked the texts that Editors produced and then came back with additions and revisions.
The response to the original text by the Editors of the nineties was hard to fathom as Osho himself had edited the original texts. Veena was told that the “Policy” was now to re-edit all the books because “the early Editors did not know what they were doing”.
This misconception had arguably arose in an innocent way as the original tapes of the lectures had been compared with the published text in the original books – but without the knowledge that Osho himself had re-edited his talks! Veena was repulsed in a similar way to many who had been, down the whole history of sannyas - by high handed people in authority, and told that this was her “ego talking” !!
Strange because in this case the hubristic devotees were actually “correcting” their Master!
Veena relates this story in her ebook called “Glimpses of the Master” (by Veena Schlegel) which can be highly recommended and is available through Amazon at a reasonable price.
The paradox she describes with this story litters the history of organised sannyas, and one wonders why? Any comments?
For years on this site, me and a few others have been raising the questions about the high handedness of the Soso Resort Management team. In their egoless state they can even suggest to the nature for taking those “unnecssary wings” away, which are really not needed for survival and reproduction of the birds.
Not just books, these alpha sannyasins have whitewashed every single footprint of Osho which does not fit with their idea of religiosity.
Grass may grow by itself but market compulsions require that it should be chopped with a certain specified blade, and wonder is mystery chopped by the good intentioned people simply loses its mystery…
Sannyas today does not resonate any sense of mystery. Basically, if you tell to your friends you are sannyasin, they will think you a bit cuckoo, who is reading century-old newspaper!
Bet you anything the resort management believe that the decisions they make, filtered as they are through their ego’s, are and will be every bit as valid as the decisions you make filtered through your ego.
They are not evil. They are at most, as self-deluding as you are. At most as fallible as you are, as fallible as the rest of us are.
Most of the criticism off them happens because of the position they are in, not because of who they are, and anyone in their position, you and your cronies included, Osho Rajneesh, the sainted Osho Rajneesh, would be subjected to as much criticism as they are in that position.
Those in a central position are always criticised by large proportion of those who are aware of them. Always.
I should qualify my attitude to the management of the Ashram.
I am neither for them or against them.
I don’t put them on a pedestal, nor do I demonise them.
I am sometimes disquieted by the things I hear, but equally I no longer have any particular idea of perfection, so no expectations particularly that they can fail to live up to
Someone has to do the job; and genuinely rather them than me.
I couldn’t handle the stress of running Sannyas News.
editing is a natural process perhaps since all that exists is transitory
one of my friends was doing a doctorate in comparative study of Buddha & J.Krishnamurty . . to me that is absurd . . anyway he is an Osho lover & he was encouraging me to do a comparative study on Buddha & Osho . . . I told him I feel Osho doesn’t stand a chance for such study . . thankfully / unthankfully . . wonder if this is my ego ?
A friend of mine once commented this sannyas world is a space for people to work through their ego issues, said in the context of all that was going, on or had gone on at the ranch; and added Sheila obviously had more ego issues than most.
Another friend remarked that some people who got involved with Osho had more baggage than others, which when considered is obviously so true, and I realised the other day in fact, we don’t all move at the same speed, work through whatever we have to work through with the same momentum.
In the particular case in point, an author must be given the last word on his own books, and with many, but maybe not all, of the “early” books Osho did give considerable feedback on the transcribed talks. The early Editors then had direct communication with him, and Osho sent his comments back, like a teacher in red ink, and these were taken faithfully on board for the final publication text. So forgetting about ego lessons, whoever dishes them out, the last word on the text of Osho books should remain with Osho.
On the current temporal sannyas movement as it is run, well, as Arpana implies whoever was running it would meet with criticism. However on the publication decisions, well I know from my own experience how in such situations job creation sometimes occurs – keep the workers happy is the name of the game as an idle crew is often a poor one.
The comment on ego to Veena from the nineties publication dept does seem off. She was close to Osho, was not at all a power monger, and Osho had given her the changes he wanted for the Grass grows by itself text. Her outrage seems justified to me.
Incidentally my Osho bibliography shows that “The grass Grows by itself” was never republished with that name. I guess it suffered a name change also in the nineties, along with the textual changes! Does anyone know what name it is published under nowadays?
Well as usual I am quite sympathetic to the Resort Management. Osho had to work with whoever was available and it quite possible that the people who edited the first editions were not the best editors in the world.
P writes “Veena was repulsed in a similar way to many who had been, down the whole history of sannyas – by high handed people in authority, and told that this was her “ego talking” !! ”
But it was her ego talking. She had a desire that the book should not be re-edited….for whatever reason. Her desire was not met. She was “repulsed.” That is her ego. Did she not realise after all this time that the purpose of the ashram (Resort, my foot!) was to encourage you to drop goals and desires.
I agree with Arpana where he says sannyas is full of people with baggage and ego issues. It my opinion it is full of people with very heavy karma (myself included) who would find it difficult to get on in the “real world.”
In light of your comments Alok it is interesting to read Dhanyam’s last comment when he says the book was never republished anyway!
Maybe the Resort Management did think twice about it.
I’m not really interested in the ego stuff in this context.
I am interested in Osho’s books being “held” as he intended. I dont see how you as a devotee can disagree with that.
This vignette seems pertinent here.
BELOVED OSHO,
WHY AM I NOT IN THE FRONT ROW?
Anand Anado, before I answer your question, there is another question also which will make your
question complete.
BELOVED OSHO,
WHY AM I IN THE FRONT ROW?
Mukesh Bharti…
A Lufthansa airliner had to make an emergency landing at sea. The captain assured the passengers that they
would be picked up shortly and that the plane would remain afloat for at least thirty minutes. After twenty
minutes had passed no rescue boats had arrived, and the captain announced, “Everybody who can swim, get
on the left wing. And everybody who can’t swim get on the right wing. Now for the people on the left wing
– when the water gets to your knees, start swimming. And for the people on the right wing — thank you for
flying Lufthansa.”
Anado and Mukesh Bharti, those who are in the front row are the people who cannot swim, and those
who are not in the front row are the people who can swim. Okay?
Osho
Satyam Shivam Sundram
Chapter #20
The radiation of enlightenment
Not just with the books but with everything concerned with Osho, last word should be given to His words. it is not just with Osho, in the human history, will and the testaments of the dead persons are treated with sacred jurisprudance.
Osho has not left any successor, but an entity called Inner Circle,where 20 sannyasins from differnt cultures and backgrounds were suppose to take care of the day to day work. Osho was so sure about the power of the meditation therefore it is insructed that in case of conflicts and before taking some important decision,they will meditate at His samdhi to reach amicable decisions…
What happened after wards, is a testamony of intrigue, jealousy and power clinging out of insecurity.
Are these the attributes of New Man; Osho was working inspite of over all oppositions from all the sides.
I will be utterly glad, any sannyasin who has spend considerable time in Pune 2, the final phase of Osho’s work and a decade later, refutes my points.
Look, as regards the title of this book….this is a simple early 70′s, North Oregon , Pot growers manual… its what any self respecting marijuana grower would say to a police bust when suspicious weeds were found invading his patch of back door begonias…it really has nothing to do with editing but more to do with claiming that you never inhale…..(which is also a claim made by those half-hearted breath watching meditators who are just so ‘not spiritual’ ), …
anyway must dash as there’s some N02 gas left in my whipped cream can in the fridge…
life… what a gas….maaaan…
Shantam what you have written in your 5:24 pm shows your passion & you have made this point in so many different ways
even though I havent been physically present during Osho’s physicality but there is always a feeling /thought that Osho was not the type who could be forced by any-body / Jayesh /circumstances for what happened & is happening in his sanyas movement . . . & may the true essense prevail always
Kavita, my love and regards for your generation of sannyasins is much more than the people who came during Osho’s life time and also i am all in appreciation for that phase of Osho’s work(1990-2000), when master was not physically present but the energy pull and Charisma was maintained as if He was there around, playing hide and seek with the mystery school participants.We have many sannyasins of your generation who left their professional life in the prime of their youth to work on themsleves and in the commune. They were enhancing the value of that place and giving LIFE to the teachings..
My Kudos for all of them…
If one step can lead to the journey of thousand miles, same way 10 years would have enchanted the seekers for other few hundred years, but then…who says “Cassa Concordia” kind of Captains exist only in the cruise ship industry!
Show us some compassion Exhalted one. Dont forget when we were starting out, and for years after, we didnt have someone all wise and all knowing and all seeing to show us the way.
Come on. A bit of kindness. Lead us from our darkness your wonderfullness
The book The Grass Grows by Itself was reprinted in 1978/79 by De Vross & Co in California, under the same title. I have not seen any further editions since then.
Here at Viha we stock and sell the book upon inquiry. It is also available in MP3.
http://www.oshoviha.org/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=the+grass+grows+by+itself
shantam …
I’m wondering by your judgement of things being marvellous after he died in the 90′s and your current swooning with kavita…could you be accused of being a ‘date therapist’ ? There’s a law against that sort of thing you know anyone typing ‘love’ here on SN can be accused of cooing and swooning .
kavita, love … (coo, warble ,coo ,swoon…).. I’m really a subconscious vegetarian… yes i gave up eating animals when i saw you…. when?.. oh this morning about 11.30 ………my love, i learnt a lot in ten years , more than in the whole history of time itself, coo swoon pant….would you like a quick dosa before some extra tiffin….I say waiter ….waiter.. ? Coo, such terrible service how about coming back to my place for a date… how about 1991 ? What a wonderful year.
…..
Coo-coo…. totally ….coo-coo
At the end of the old Osho videos, there was almost always a message saying something like
“This discourse is complete unto itself”
I always thought this was a good message, and also that it came from Osho.
Compilations, etc and major changes in Osho’s text, such as major deletions as happens in some modern texts are totally mistaken if one adheres to this, and Osho didn’t ask for that statement to be attached without due intent.
It is interesting after reading of Veena’s experience in the early nineties, that the book “The Grass Grows by itself” does not, according to Dhanyam’s last post seem to have been republished! Perhaps what she said then was in fact taken on board, despite the ego nonsense of the nineties publishers.
For those interested in the method Osho used for the editing of the early books it is well described in this much earlier article on sannyasnews.
http://www.sannyasnews.org/sannyasnews/Articles/Veena7.html
Just imagine, Osho has not spoken so much material for hundreds of books but was still able to initiate hundred thousands people in His neo Sannyas?
I wonder in the present context how his mangement would have taken umbrella of, ” Millions of people are reading Osho´s books kind of Alibi”..
Those writers also sell millions of books who have no single disciples!
What a pervert world sannyas has gone into, where human resources are put aside at the cost of paperbacks!
I think i should make an appeal to porn producers and participants, never feel guilty about your work on the contrary feel dignified, just start thinking, ” We are spreading the waves of Love…our work is, Love in action!
Wise men leave behind in books what they cannot take with them when they leave this world. Personally I am more interested in what Osho took with him. I find it foolish to be so concerned about who is editing what. Osho said much that can be useful to the seeker, but even taking that into account he said many times that the real message was contained in the space between his words. Putting it another way: truth can only be understood in silence…something that selfrighteous windbags will never understand.
What you say is true Sagara. But… as Osho himself did consider it important to get the finger pointing at the moon into a well refined state – as he insisted on seeing texts before publication – and often changing them, there would seem to be great value in getting in right for those many of us who still need the finger pointing at the moon. Dont you also need the finger pointing at the moon sometimes? Dont think you would be reading this site if you did not.
frankly Parmartha . . . I like this site maybe because its less crowded . . . & more so because I feel its kind of a creativity & as well as catharsis for me . . . ofcourse the bonus is I also get to see so many different views of the finger pointing at the moon
Charging around like a mad thing and the grass grows by itself.
The grass doesnt seem to give a buggar what I do really.
(o_O)
Sitting silently,
doing nothing,
Spring comes
and the grass grows by itself.
for some reason some Editors of Haiku think this is a haiku of Basho. It is not. It is an Osho original!
Actually that quote is usually ascribed to the Tao Te Ching. At any rate, it is pure Taoism. I did a quick Google on the source, and found one site crediting it to Stephen Mitchell’s translation of the Tao Te Ching — this despite the fact that his translation only appeared in 1988, long after Osho said it, and in fact those words are not found in Mitchell’s version. So you may be right about Osho being the originator of it.
It would be fitting, anyway, as Osho more than once implied that Lao Tzu was his main man, his all-time favorite mystic. I don’t recall any other major mystic being free of critical remarks from Osho. He even knocked the Buddha once, saying he was a bit ‘tasteless’. Jesus he called a ‘stupid young man’, J. Krishnamurti a ‘useless master’, U.G. Krishnamurti a ‘phoney’, Muktananda a ‘dirty old man’, Dalai Lama a ‘politician’, etc. But never a bad word about Lao Tzu (and maybe Hakuin also).
My haiku’s original as well swam.
)
Also I think Ramana Marharshi, he did not criticize.
And Krishna, and the Sufi who was murdered (cannot remember his name.), Prob some others as well.
nah the old man criticized the krishna
krishna was a woman monger
had 16000 wives
war monger
etc etc etc
Well he did not criticise Krishna in “Krishna…. The Man and his philosophy.” Possibly he did elsewhere.
Thanks for your contribution Teertha.
I have further researched this by looking at Veena’s original editorship (1976) for the book “The Grass Grows by itself”.
It looks like we were both wrong. Page 43 of that edition Osho quotes a Zen Master called Zenerin as the original writer of this haiku, which he quotes.
Anyway I love this haiku. One imagines it must have been translated by someone, and Osho picked up on it during his reading. The translation strikes me as very good.
For some reason I remember a reading of the Haiku’s of Basho, where it was claimed for him. This is therefore not the case.
Have you googled Zenerin Swam.
Did you find this.
About an inch and a half down the page.
A real find.
http://boozers.fortunecity.com/brewerytap/695/Zenrinkushu.html
http://i.imgur.com/TWFuY.jpg
Thanks Arpana.
That R.H Blyth fellow … what a translator. I remember one day pre- sannyas at the end of my tether in a Crouch End library, and something he had translated seemed to reach out to me from a shelf, more than me reaching for it.
It changed my mood utterly.
Do you happen to know much about the fellow?
Those Haiku he translated should all be republished.
Completely new to me.
You set me of on this road.
I’ve just printed the lot out so I can hold them in my hand to read.
Near the bottom of the page.
When an ordinary man attains knowledge he is a sage;
When a sage attains understanding he is an ordinary man.
Cheapest on Amazon UK is £27
and on Abe Books . uk
Sorry about the size of the url
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=&tn=&pn=&kn=&sn=&isbn=0952239701&gpnm=&cty=200000169&bi=Any%20Binding&fe=&sgnd=&dj=&prl=&prh=&sortby=2&ds=25&afsrc=1&afn_sr=para¶_l=0
I tell a lie.
Wh. Smith have something for
£6.95
http://www.whsmith.co.uk/CatalogAndSearch/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=9780952239703
What Osho or other wise wo(men) have left is a human legacy to cherish or to waste. What they have taken with them, atleast i have no idea about it.
How can i know?
None of my friend works in the customs or border securtiy here on the earth or in the sky..
As far as mystic´s silence is concerned, many of us long for. But most of the time our strategy is similar to those, who want to have the heaven but without dying…
Dear Parmartha, you asked, Dont you also need the finger pointing at the moon sometimes? To be honest I donlt really feel or think that I do and I do not see the logic in that I would not visit this site if I did not.
What the world needs now is not aeekers but finders. How much longer do you need till you sawn the cloak of responsibility. How much longer do you need to hang on to that sticky finger?
Many sannyasins are no different from those belonging to other religious cults and movements in that they are stuck in the seeker zone, For one reason or another they simply seem crippled or blind to the fact that they donlt need to seek anymore and are thus completely useless to others who might benifit from their help if they simply stood up and declared, Ilve got it. What we are talking about is the truth…their is nothing to be afraid of, existence equiped us with all we need, we are timeless and indestructable in essence. What are you all waiting on..,.not another master to finish the job….Osho told you that you are gods and goddesses…donlt you believe that?
You sound riddled with self-importance. Judgmental in the way I associate with Christians, fundamentalist Christians. Self righteous and knowing in the way I associate with fundamentalist Christians.
We were all as we were, when we came to Osho, because we had been judged varying degrees of cruelly. Takes some longer to unravel all that than others. If you are all that you have deduced yourself to have become, how can you possibly believe yet more cruel judgment will make people the way you think they should be?
Maybe you should stick to speaking for yourself, Sagara? How do you know many sannyasins have “got it”? Have you “got it”? It would appear so from your words here. Good for ‘you’ if you have.
My feeling (taken from others’ teachings, of course) is along the lines of it might well take a lot more than one or a few realisations before it’s advisable to declare we’ve “got it”. The road might be a fair bit longer than we realise?
Seems to me there is nothing to get, only something to lose but thats kind of scary.
How about sannyas is more about un-becoming, than becoming.
(@_@)
First thought was, same thing really but as your using the word sannyas, guess you mean Osho’s style (for want of a better word). Osho’s snannyas, for a lot of people, was about becoming, fulfilling potential and finding individuality, he encouraged it, but he talked on so many levels (or we heard him at different levels), you can’t really say sanyas was this or that, it encompassed so much. Guess it might be good to go with the old hippie saying,‘take what you need and leave the rest’.
People have personal relationships with Osho, I’m sure. He reflects people as they are at any given time, but, in my view, the major conflicts are between people who don’t meditate and have dogmatised what he’s said, or believe the dogma they are already full of is to do with him,
and people who meditate and are influenced by his words.
The difference is enormous.
The difference between being able to swim on the one hand, and believing that knowing all the names of everybody who has won an Olympic gold is the same thing.
Jesus earns,Moses saves and well…..tilopa sells
..
…….
..
and bhagwan buys
Hey Shantam.
Do you reckon Sagara has got it?
Your the expert about whose got it round here.
Do let us know.
(Fingers crossed Sagara. Your future career as a master hangs in mid air. )
Shantam along with Kavita are about the last people on earth I’d look to for any sort of clear reflection. Shantam obviously has some sort of agenda running with the farts at play in Poona, Kavita obviously is not getting enough of something important in her life.
As for the rest of you, well a mixed bag really. lots of cliches from old sannyas value system glued with super glue going by how stuck such tired phrases as,Maybe you should stick to speaking for yourself, You sound riddled with self-importance etc. Do give me a break…sounds like the stuff those old fogeys speak down on the beach in Goa, where old has beens from Poona one hang out having run out of scams, other than trying to make out that although they are failures in life…they are actully hugely successful in the spiritual world because Osho gave them a new name thirty odd years ago.
THat might be getting close to the bone for some of you people, coming away with all your spiritual knowledge which has got you where? Quote….The road might be a fair bit longer than we realise? What road is that exactlty? The one with a dead end? Sounds like it.
Get it straight…there is no road and you are not on it.
Talking of Osho books: just read a good one an toss the rest away…Why not actually practice what is taught in THE BOOK OF SECRETS for a change and then you would see that all that nonsense about who is in charge in Poona, or what is being edited don’t really make a bit of difference to who you really are…consciousness, god, the whole…call it what you like.
Dharmen says, Seems to me there is nothing to get, only something to lose but thats kind of scary. We have to use language but as for the kind of scary comment…why do yopu think O)sho told you to jump..Well, in case you haven’t realise…if you jump right now your petty little mind won’t get in the way because you won’t have any time to think about it. Stuff that in your old fogey’s pipe and smoke it.
“The Road” etc. is simply a phrase, Sagara. What I’m saying is suggesting that it’s possible to think one is further ‘evolved’ than is actually the case. One or two ‘realisations’ might well not amount to very much, in the larger picture. Self-delusion, I reckon, is a trap it might be easy to fall into. Especially if one tends to be somewhat of a self-righteous bent.
If you are truly concerned about ‘waking up’ people, I think you’d better review your way of communicating, it’s far too much like angry preaching for anyone to gladly accept (imo).
By the way, who are you to say “what the world needs”? Perhaps it needs things to be exactly as they are? Might spoil your little preacher number, of course….
Oh hostile one, throw your judgements around if you want, but have you not heard the saying, don’t judge another until you have walked a mile in their shoes?
I see from your pic on the caravanserai your quite young so I guess a lot of us here will be old fogeys for you, what were you expecting – sages? You wait sweetheart another 30-40 years and you too won’t be so certain of anything.
Actually, you make some good points and we need someone to stir things up a bit since we don’t allow Pennie anymore -thankyou.
Sucking sound.
you look a lot like fried pinto..
oh wait…..so does that mean are you?
look like osho’s populariy is going over the roof……poor old boyle may have new plans after slumdog millionaries…
egodog sannyasins?
The strange thing is we have a newcomer who on the 1st day of joining the bootcamp starts writing so deeply that it looks like it knows the comrades from all along!
Or is it what Sigmund Tilopa used to say “refurnishment” where the ego after getting spent out or after being away on a holiday on a beach takes up new form and starts it over again?
First of all, my impression is Sagara is Lokesh in the new Avatara!
i can be wrong, who knows with the time, wife of Prince William may look as ripe and wise as wife of grand dad prince Philip!
I mean same experience can create similar facial and writing expressions!
Oh dear, you might be right, the posts are coming from Shree Lanka.
sagara . . . what makes you think I would like to show / share my clear reflection / whatever with YOU ? . . . & this ‘Kavita obviously is not getting enough of something important in her life ‘ . . . can you tell me how you know what is important to me in my life ?
dharmen that picture of sagara on caravansarai is probably of Freida Pinto
Dharmen,i am willing to bet photo of Sagara in Carvansarai is a stolen photo identity of some model. Otherwise also, why a young model looking girl will post her photo at this site, after all snews is not facebook, incidently this Sagara is not at facebook, where everybody likes to appreciate their photos and wait for the “Like” click.
Looked little more closely, i think the photos of Sagara is the lead heroin of famoud movie, “Slumdog Millionaire”. It provess my hypothes, that it is our Scottish Lokesh playing naughty!
well now . . . sagara aka Lokesh . . . can you buy me the latest Mulsanne . . . thats the only important thing missing in my life . . .
I’m sure that if you change positions on what opinion you have nobody will need to argue with anyone else…here is a brief video of some startling results of the latest auto-immune therapy meditation….where one is both the seeker and the sought…the answer and the question, the parking ticket and the fine, the toothpaste and the tube….i could go on but i risk deep and profound enlightenment if i keep speaking in paradoxical comparisons…
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Yeahh,so funny,wrestling with nobody,actually nobody is wrestling with nobody!
Surely you mean the sufi state of absence described by Al Zheimer…
Martyn,no i don’t. Although i have read that Richard Rose, a kind of American Zenmaster,who taught,lived and died last century had Alzheimer during his last years. So yes,perhaps being awake and Alzheimer can go together…….apparently.
ah yes Zen and Alzheimers …achieved by answering the old familiar zen koans , ‘where am I’ ….and ‘where are my slippers’, and ‘what am i doing in the kitchen?’
I suppose enlightenment really is an extended form of that most familiar universal experience :
‘ where did i put the keys ‘
for some oil is the Vietnam & for some its water there are very few who know its actually air
Ha ha ha..talk about letting the cat amongst the chickens,
Sat on the beach with Lokesh and his charning wife this moning. He was saying there is nothing wrong with a lie….if it works. I am his step-daughter from another marriage and we get along most of the time. He is not online at all right now but says he will return to Sannyas news in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime you can all XXX my beautifull smooth ass goodbye.
The Chamunda Mantra for Divine Mother in the form of slayer
of negative emotions such as Anger and Destructive Passion is:
Om Aieem Hreem Kleem Chaa-mun-daa-yay Vich-chay