SN’s old friend, Iqbal Singh, presents and comments on a video where the high-profile and extremely popular Indian guru, Sri Sri Ravi Shahkar, makes the extraordinary claim that Osho was ‘rescued’ from America by none other than Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (of TM fame).
My name is Iqbal Singh (fornerly aka Swami Shantam Prem).
I took sannyas in 1984, presently I don’t consider myself a part of the Resortist Sannyas Cult.
I am neither a sannyasin nor ex-sannyasin but a lifelong disciple of Cosmic wisdom and till now no other human being of our times has inspired me other than Master Shri Rajneesh. (I denounce the imposed name ‘Osho’).
The way the master tried to create a merger of East and West is simply far-out.
I am still in love with His thousands of people who gave their best to be a part of His Buddhafield, whether in Pune or Rajneeshpuram, USA.
Recently, a hugely successful Indian Hindu Guru, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, has compared Osho Rajneesh & Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Both from Jabalpur, both created their niche in the western hemisphere, one could say ‘Export Quality’ Indian Gurus. The rise and fall of their work deserves to be studied in business schools: how followers destroy the work of charismatic Gurus.
Through this post in English, I would like that sannyasins of various countries who were part of Rajneeshpuram share their understanding, whether there is some essence in Sri Ravi Shankar´s confident assertion that Maharishi bailed out Acharya Rajneesh.
I would prefer that Raviji prove his accusations in this video with evidence or withdraw his lies.
One thing is clear, science must develop hi-tech lie detection devices. Youtube likes and clicks are creating foot-in-the-mouth syndrome in guru types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb00JKCgv1w
Reply
Very funny, people calm and smiling, listening to a bit of folk wisdom, one that doesn’t create too much stress/anxiety, but also isn’t a fairy tale without villains that would bore even a child—the middle way, between yawning and snoring.
His sly expression had only a couple of flashes of cunning, for example when he shared his thoughts in response to an Osho’s remark.
In reality, the ego that was being directly targeted wasn’t that of the guru who, upon receiving the honor of an award, bowed to a politician, but rather the politician’s presumed ego.
Instead, he defended himself by speaking as if his ego were the target (maybe, it was, but indirectly), concluding laconically that even if he hadn’t bowed, egoistic motivation couldn’t be ruled out in that case either.
The other moment of complacency over his own wisdom (absent the playfulness and detachment of a conscious witness) comes at the end of the video, when he says that between Osho’s unethical and self-indulgent disciples and the rigid ascetic discipline advocated by MMY, he allows his followers small daily satisfactions…hoping that an Epstein won’t find his followers.
The story of paying bail or something similar to get Osho out of prison is instead an opportunity for this friendly and harmless guru to positively highlight MMY’s paternalism, helping Osho despite being judged badly by him.
It also seemed to me that the emphasis of the story alluded to Osho’s lack of pride, for example, by refusing financial help (assuming that this actually happened).
I don’t see why this money thing between Osho and MMY is important to Mr. Iqbal; perhaps because if it had happened according to the Indian moral code, Osho would lose his dignity? Perhaps men who get paid by other men become like women, losing their virility?
Indian mysteries.
The master of masters and the masters of a master….
It seems fairly obvious to me that a guru like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, when speaking of lineage, is addressing a community of disciples united by a value system that also includes the ethical tradition of previous generations; the possibility of short-term atonement for sins does not seem to be contemplated.
Such an orientation toward sainthood, which is the norm in the spiritual/religious world, can only create a neurotic tension regarding one’s own reputation that must be defended/flaunted, and speaking about that of others can be a solution.
It seems quite likely to me that the outcome of such communities tends to cause individuals to fall into the trap of private vice, which would not be a problem in itself if it did not entail the burden of hypocrisy of having to share public virtues.
Osho was not a hypocrite; if he had collected luxury cars, psychotropic or sexual experiences, even that would not have fuelled the level of moralism that conflicts with the honesty (with oneself first and foremost) necessary for harmonious individual and communal spiritual growth.
Striving towards such a society is the true “dream” that Osho left us, the only resource left today at the bottom of the barrel of so-called Western civilization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb00JKCgv1w
Had watched this video when it was freshly cooked up!
Seems Ravi jiji is trying to bask in Osho’s sun!
Do you think so, Kavita? I thought that Osho’s popularity was no longer what it used to be, and that in fact Sri Sri Ravi now has much greater reach than Osho.
Rather, I think it may be a step towards rehabilitating Osho, and bringing him again into the fold. Some of the things that SSR said were definitely forgiving-minded, conciliatory. It’s a question of making it ‘ok’ to read Osho, to accept him as a modern guru not different from SSR, MMY or Sadhguru. Even though they see him as a bit of an iconoclast and also a trail blazer.
NP, it could he is trying to get attention from Osho’s people / lovers / followers / disciples / market and bmaybe is trying to get some Brownie points, more so from his own people & also to expand his market.
From having watched the video, I quite like this Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, I like his energy and his humility.
Whether or not Maharishi bailed out Osho Rajneesh is something that I don’t really care too much about. I think gurus tell these stories to their followers in order to bring a bit of life to the situation, not necessarily because they are true. It’s a device, as in the story of the Buddha and the three visitors who each came to ask about the existence of God and received three different answers, which I quoted here not long ago.
I think it is interesting to examine what led Shantam to ask this question; perhaps it was a feeling that Shree Rajneesh is the superior guru and stands on his own? If this is all we can say about what Rajneesh means to the modern seeker some 30 years after his death, then that isn’t much.
Came a across a Hindi (with no English subtitles) response from a SSR discple’s video to Osho’s disciple’s video.
Seems a New Age Religious Crusade is going on!!!
Just sharing that video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lCXzJPviRo&t=69s
Gurudev Sri Sri Shankar has 9.44m. followers on the internet. OSHO has 1.52m. followers.
Who is the greater Guru?
Anyway, I still remember his words: “Every Master is a great liar.”
Frankly, I am not interested in anyone’s market value!
Those are numbers of followers for the YouTube channels I noticed. It’s just an indication that Raviji is much more widely followed in India.
However, Osho may well be the more modern guru, less connected to the Hindu establishment but with many more ideas.
I think it’s a good thing for these gurus to discuss Osho, because it brings his thinking into a wider circulation.
Probably what I am getting from what you are saying is:
Once upon a time, the original Acharya’s/Rajneesh’s teaching was like some uncopyrighted currency that’s more like today’s digital money, which now this and mostly every modern Master/Teacher is freely using – & needs to do this without revealing its source – maybe for a practical purpose!
I guess Osho is also more widely followed in India than anywhere else.
I think with this ‘rescue’ Osho, Sri Sri is just playing jokes on him. This one can more easily do if the person is dead and cannot react.
And just by the way…another K-Video:
“Why do your teachings have so little effect on us?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WZKmVc-FuE
Well, he is asking the same question that Osho said would be different through him and his work. In the end both knew YOU yourself have to transform, change, or even be what you already are. But the surroundings of such Buddhas may give you the momentary feel there is a change happening, true understanding, bliss and freedom is here and now. But that energy of the “Buddha-Field” is just in time…we will all lose it when the speaker has left his body and the primal quest for change may rise again, or just wither away in time…if you are lucky.
This is of course a funny and interesting topic to Neo-Neo-Neo-Sannyasins like us
yes.
First time I listened to this Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (not the musician) I liked many parts of this gossiping and also doubted some others.
The foolery about different gurus is part of the game anyway!
For example, also this video with another famous modern Indian Guru is very interesting. We can see and love the truth in it anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJdbj5d1v64
Good day, friends,
I wanted to talk about something important to me, and that is the expressing of one’s innate joy. My experience is that we are born joyful, and that we accumulate seriousness, anger, damage and trauma, which obscure that joyfulness and make us feel tired and serious and down at heart.
If you go and examine your childhood damage and trauma and what these things meant to your view of the world, just watching with kindness and love, these ancient hurts can be greatly eased, and your natural joyfulness again gets a chance to shine. It’s a meditative process which can bring a lot of happiness to your life.
Nityaprem, you’re asking indirectly: who would repress joy to express a little agony?
I don’t know if, as David Icke (who’s been discussing the horror of the Epstein files for decades before Mr. Jeffrey’s case) says, there are entities in the astral world who love “to eat” certain negative vibrations (fear-anxiety), thanks to an elite group of hybridized shapeshifters (Anunnaki) who sacrifice humans in their honour (in exchange for their position of power). But if I were you, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that there might be some human or demi-human who has never known joy, due to their constitution or a hard and painful life.
How would you feel about the idea that there might be people/entities who invest in your/my/our fear/suffering?
After all, even if such demonic entities capable of living by taking over our physical bodies don’t exist, what would prevent an elite of aristocrats who have passed down power for centuries from reaping benefits from blood rituals?
Even in your democratic and emancipated country, not everyone is joyful, perhaps due to some who prefer to be powerful like Joris Demmink.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making this a reputational issue; rather, I’m saying that the elite’s power system uses reputational arguments to hide their misdeeds, going unnoticed before your joyful and innocent eyes, the eyes of one with an excellent reputation — human, all too human.
I don’t believe in such things, Veet Francesco. Entities, fine. Thinking ones who have a voice, ok. Annunaki, definitely not.
The whole Epstein Files show that there is some sort of shady elite who do connect to each other, and that they get up to unpleasant things. It’s all stuff that is coming out now, about entitled people. But it seems to be all of this world.
Nityaprem, I don’t know what’s more unscientific:
believing that entities from other dimensions could exist, or
believing that there couldn’t be bipeds from this dimension who could contact the dimension where the entities (you claim exist) live.
I wonder what it would be like to wash the dishes or mop the meditation room floor with you, NP.
For example, if I should avoid talking about politics in your presence and always appear optimistic and joyful.
Everyone has their own way of managing their own and others’ energies.
I think meditating together is important, more important than doing it alone, but doing an Osho therapy group together (with the right therapist) could help us understand each other better, our belief systems, and love each other more.
There was something left unsaid in the previous thread, regarding the reputational criterion applied, with a synecdoche, to the Osho encounter groups of the 1970s.
Although Satyadeva, 10 years ago, in another thread on the same topic, expressed almost entirely what I also see as my point of view (Lokesh, too, was kind and protective towards Rajen, who had been criticized by some forum commentators, as a therapist in the 1970s encounter groups), I would like to add that therapy played and plays an important role in the community model envisioned by Osho.
If it’s true that the interchangeability of roles is already a “therapy group” in itself, because it inverts the perspective on the power dynamics among sannyasins working in the same community context, what (imv) group therapy adds, facilitated by expert and loving guidance, is the possibility of resolving (through observation and understanding) all those conflicts arising from the different cultural/existential settings of an outward-facing community (there are no exams to pass) like Osho’s.
I admit, attempts to talk politics would probably fall on deaf ears during the mopping of the meditation room floor (or at other times). I am largely disinterested in it. Although I did come across this which is an interesting group of political economists…
https://youtu.be/TGM5u23P12I
In terms of managing each other’s energies, I believe some good music would help. There’s some of what I like in pop, jazz, new age, r&b and soul, for example, I have a pretty broad range, though I like the eighties. Something like this…
https://youtu.be/NyUc2BrpiMk
https://youtu.be/PIh07c_P4hc
https://youtu.be/PgRafRp-P-o
Therapy groups I’ve always found to be a very human activity, and good for the soul. There is something of the confessional in it, although leaving out the influence of a father confessor.
David Icke had too much bad acid…Poor guy. He is that conspirator only famous for his weird reptile paranoia. Forget the rest.
But I’ve always found it funny that by chance science calls the oldest parts of the brain “reptilian”.
Icke must have combined his horror-trip with that psychological insight. A distorted mind lost in altered states and btw, essential MAGA bullshit.
Veet Tom, I envy your rock-solid convictions.
I’d like to point out that the conspirator is the one who creates the conspiracies, not the one who reports or suffers them.
If there’s one issue that’s occupied Western philosophical reflection for millennia, it’s precisely that of giving a foundation to the truth of what exists, since what appears depends on subjective sensory perception, an opinion among opinions.
For example, trusting in the five senses, seeing all those philanthropists like Bill Gates on Jeffrey’s Island might make you think they’re planning an attempt to save humanity from some viral threat.
For me, it’s not so important that philanthropists shed their skin like a chameleon; the important thing is that they produce powerful vaccines against the seasonal cold.
But that’s just an opinion, absurdly opposed to yours.
Yes, basically you have to put your ego on the cross.
And by going through suffering, you can transcend suffering.
NP delivers the spurious claim that “My experience is that we are born joyful.”
This is pure nonsense, and you can count me out, because I have no memories at all about being born. In fact, I would go so far as to say that we only know that we were born because we have been told that. Therefore, I do not believe that NP has any experience of being joyful when he was born, because NP did not come into existence for at least a couple of years after he was born.
Coincidentally, I read an article in ‘El País’ recently which delivered the following information:
“In the first years of life, an explosive learning process unfolds. Yet, paradoxically, we rarely remember any fragment of our existence before the age of three, and complete memories usually don’t form until around six. Some people claim to recall their first steps or being cradled in a crib by their mother, but these are almost certainly false memories — reconstructions shaped by photos or stories from those who were present. As memory researchers have demonstrated time and again, our capacity for recall is less like a recording device capturing reality and more like a narrative we construct to shape our identity and better navigate life.
At the beginning of the 20th century, Sigmund Freud coined the term infantile amnesia to describe this lack of early memories, attributing it to the repression of thoughts related to childhood sexuality or aggression — ideas deemed unacceptable to a civilized mind. Since then, various theories have emerged to explain this phenomenon. Some, like Freud, suggest it results from later reformatting, though not necessarily due to cultural repression. Others argue that the infant brain is simply not capable of forming memories.
This second hypothesis is based on the fact that the different regions of the hippocampus are connected by what is known as the trisynaptic circuit, a neuronal pathway that is still immature in a child’s brain. This immaturity would prevent the hippocampus from encoding episodic information, the ability that later enables us to recall personal experiences in specific places and times. Furthermore, this idea seemed to be reinforced by observations that children’s memory capacity is as limited as that of adults with hippocampal damage-induced amnesia.
However, an article published on Thursday in ‘Science’ challenges this hypothesis, providing evidence that children do form memories but later, when they grow up, cannot retrieve them.
One common explanation for childhood amnesia is that the hippocampus — the brain region responsible for memory storage — has not fully developed before adolescence, which prevents memories from being encoded. But a team led by researchers at Yale University has found that this is not the case. Using innovative techniques to study memory formation in infants, the researchers showed images of faces, objects and scenes to children between four months and two years old while monitoring their brain activity with fMRI. Then, while continuing to monitor neuronal activity, they showed them the same objects again along with others they had never seen before.
When infants had previously observed a stimulus, they were expected to look at it more closely when it was presented again. In the experiment, when shown two images — one novel and one familiar — if the infant focused their gaze more on the latter, the researchers concluded that they recognised it as familiar.
With this hypothesis in mind, the team investigated whether hippocampal activity was linked to infants’ memory. The results showed that the greater the activity in the hippocampus when an infant first saw an image, the longer they gazed at it when it was shown to them later, suggesting that the information had been stored in that brain region.
But where do these memories go if they are formed but never retrieved? That’s the question being asked by researchers like Nick Turk-Browne, the study’s lead author. One possibility is that they are stored in ephemeral memory. Another is that they reside in our brains, although they can no longer be accessed.”
NP then draws the following conclusion:
“We accumulate seriousness, anger, damage and trauma, which obscure that joyfulness and make us feel tired and serious and down at heart.”
This sounds like something he might have read somewhere. Paradise lost. I have observed many babies and not all of them were joyful. Some of them were upset and screaming their heads of in discomfort.
Then NP delivers his ultimate conclusion:
“If you go and examine your childhood damage and trauma and what these things meant to your view of the world, just watching with kindness and love, these ancient hurts can be greatly eased, and your natural joyfulness again gets a chance to shine. It’s a meditative process which can bring a lot of happiness to your life.”
So now we know how NP spends his days when he is not gathering book knowledge. He is busy in his living room, examining his childhood damage and traumas, so that his natural joyfulness again gets a chance to shine. What a load of shite!
What a load of shite you have produced indeed, Lokesh. I take it you are not up for a bit of self-examination then?
NP, what I wrote has nothing to do with being up for a bit of self-examination. My comment is based on debunking your ridiculous claim that “My experience is that we are born joyful.” What is your actual experience in such things? Can you share some examples? I suspect it is yet another of your mind trips, perhaps based upon something you have read.
My partner asked what I was writing. I told her. She laughed and showed me the ‘happy baby’ exercise she does in her yoga class.
All you have to do is think back to your earliest memories and feel what you felt at that time.
Okay. So, how far back do your earliest memories extend and what did you feel at that time? And how can you be certain that those memories and feelings are not the result of later reformatting?
NP delivers the claim that “My experience is that we are born joyful.”
Maybe the experience in the womb was joyful, but certainly not the birth.
The birth is painful, for the child and for the mother; there ia a reason the expression “birth trauma” exists.
My experience is that as we get older we move from innocence and cheerfulness and non-seriousness to dourness and seriousness.
Exactly when or what your earliest memories are is largely irrelevant, all you need is a sense of what you felt during your earliest childhood years.
In other words, NP, you just want to write nonsense on SN, and if questioned about it you simply write some more bunk to divert attention away from the fact.
Elderly people are often quite funny. Perhaps it is just a reflection of yourself you are seeing.
I can’t help it if you refuse to see the truth when it’s plainly stated and waved in front of your nose, Lokesh. I don’t have all the answers either, I just know a few little bits.
“My experience is that as we get older we move from innocence and cheerfulness and non-seriousness to dourness and seriousness.”
You are confused, NP.
There is no “we”.
It depends on the individual.
It is not a question of age, but of the inner.
Professor Andrea Zhok, in the article I’m adding below, offers a bitter reflection on the paradox of living in a world of billions of citizens seeking to cooperate on an ethical/reputation basis, governed by a pack of sons of bitches, cooperating on the basis of unspeakable crimes, committed together as an act of mutual loyalty, a blood pact that makes the ritual of mafia affiliation (pricking the index finger with a pin—used to pull the trigger—blood falling on the photo of a saint, which is then burned, and reciting the sacred formula, to burn like that saint if the code of honour is betrayed) seem like a Boy Scout game.
A. Zhok uses the case of the disgrace of an intellectual like Noam Chomsky (on the verge of 90, he met a billionaire criminal and tried to refute his racist theses, albeit by accepting gifts…from a racist) to argue that the form of cooperation based on ethics and reputation is much more fragile than the criminal one used by the elite.
This reflection also applies, to a varying degree, to what is happening in Osho’s world.
For me, using Osho’s “oddities” to decree the disastrous end of that social event — that is, a joyful, creative and compassionate awakening of human consciousness — is an attempt to discourage/stifle an original and effective cooperative model, a true alternative to the one that has dominated for millennia, based on double standards: one for the king and his court and one for the people.
It’s truly unforgivable that those sannyasins, despite having witnessed that miracle, now use the reputational argument, knowing full well that ethics and reputation have never been the cooperative foundation of our community;
A more or less direct contribution to that system of power that Osho always fought, knowing full well the roots of human misery, that structural hypocrisy with which he wrestled, until his dying breath, with those within his sight.
‘PRIVATE VICES, PUBLIC VIRTUES’, by Andrea Zhok
“Discussions like the recent one about Chomsky and the Epstein files have made me reflect on a profound problem in Western societies today.
To get to the point, I must digress.
Let’s start with a basic anthropological and sociological question. Given that what characterizes human beings in terms of effectiveness in the world is the capacity for cooperation, let’s ask ourselves: how can we build a network of cooperation?
Formal institutions exist, of course, but they in turn depend on a deeper motivational level: you can formally have a state and a judiciary with laws, and yet this can be completely empty and ineffective if people don’t believe in it, if they don’t feel a reason to recognize it. The world is full of states and institutions that exist only on paper, but which in reality conceal other mechanisms of power.
The question therefore becomes: what allows us to build networks of cooperation at a profound motivational level? In today’s context, I believe two factors should be mentioned. Models.
1) The traditional model is rooted in human nature and has a glorious past: groups of people organize, coordinate, and cooperate based on shared ideals, giving to others and receiving recognition from others. The emotional foundations of these systems are things like friendship, loyalty, honor, and reputation. All these values require time to consolidate: honor or reputation is not assessed on a single case, but on the overall pattern of behaviors over time.
The fact that they are built over time makes these values difficult to develop, especially in contexts like modern work, where people do not live and work in close proximity for long periods. It should be noted that these forms of reputational construction can also be used in criminal contexts, and therefore for purposes that we might consider anything but ideal. (This is the case of the “familism” present in various mafia-style criminal organizations.) The fact remains that even in those contexts, this cooperative model builds an internal ethic. Moreover, criminal organizations founded on family loyalty cannot extend too much, and the further one moves from the primary center of loyalty, the more easily they disintegrate: their power is limited.
For this reason, broad ideals work best as a basis for building solidarity, loyalty, honor, and reputation within a group: faith in God, the idea of nationhood, communism, etc.
These ideals are essential for obtaining the cooperation of large numbers of people, which is essential for those who do not hold significant amounts of power.
2) However, if we look at the other extreme of today’s society, we find other groups with an interest in cooperation. What we call “the elites” are represented by People who INDIVIDUALLY hold significant portions of power.
In the liberal narrative, the fact that these individuals are a plurality (hundreds, thousands, depending on their level) would guarantee their safety, because in the liberal system these elites are in constant competition among themselves. This competition would guarantee a mutual limitation of power.
In principle, coordinating the efforts and activities of a few hundred people is immensely simpler than doing so for millions, tens, hundreds of millions of individuals, for a nation. But for elites, there is another problem. Those who reach the pinnacle of power in a context of economic competition like the Western one are typically unscrupulous sharks, where appealing to loyalty, honor, friendship, or reputation would be pathetic as well as ineffective. Therefore, while numerically facilitated in cooperation, they are hindered by their nature. How can this limitation be overcome?
The answer lies in a stratagem found in some versions of the “prisoner’s dilemma.” You have to make yourself MUTUALLY BLACKMAILABLE. A financial shark who has reached a national or international apex doesn’t count on the loyalty of another shark. They swim in an environment where tearing a piece of flesh from those around you guarantees you’ll grow bigger and be able to eat other smaller fish the next day. But if you become complicit in something completely unmentionable, this guarantees long-term cooperation. Even though the only ideal that drives them is an antisocial one, an ideal that demands “mors tua vita mea,” they manage to cooperate steadily with this substitute for loyalty and reputation: complicity in crime, mutual blackmail.
At this point, my question is: which of the two systems of cooperation tends to be more successful today?
The first system has the entire history of humanity behind it; it is potentially inclusive, constructive, and ethical, but it must coordinate many people based on issues that are constantly being eroded, ridiculed, and discredited, such as honour and reputation.
The second system, thanks to today’s colossal concentration of economic power, can exercise enormous power by coordinating relatively few people, people who know each other face to face. These individuals may be perfect sons of bitches — in fact, it helps — but if they bind each other through mutual blackmail, they can operate with extraordinary effectiveness.
And here I return to the Chomsky affair and why it struck me.
Not for reasons of personal affection: Chomsky was a liberal, with very conventional views on the usual American “villains” who took stupid positions during the pandemic, etc. Not my hero. The only book of his in my library is on linguistics.
What strikes me here is an element related to reputational dynamics.
Chomsky appears as an idealist who fought against the system, and as far as I can tell, he firmly believed in it. He wrote something like forty volumes of severe criticism of the American system of power — certainly, criticisms within the framework of the American Constitution; he’s not a revolutionary, and yet he’s been perceived by two generations as an exemplary figure. He lectures all over the world, always with huge audiences. And yet, he doesn’t get rich (he’s wealthy, but nothing more).
At 87, he met Jeffrey Epstein.
At 95, he suffered a stroke that left him incapacitated.
At 97, his reputation was destroyed because a review of the Epstein files revealed frequent visits with Epstein, the acceptance of favours (a financial arrangement, vacations), a conversation in which he attempted to refute Epstein’s racist ideas, and private conversations in which he seemed to believe in Epstein’s innocence.
Well, as I said, I’m not interested in defending Chomsky or anyone else, but I can’t help but wonder. Is anyone clear on the tunnel we’ve found ourselves in?
I mean, if someone can build an impeccable, even glorious, reputation in the eyes of the world’s public opinion well into their very old age, and that reputation can be incinerated in a week by the wrong acquaintances in their old age, who exactly is safe?
Who can say that investing in the traditional values of honour, loyalty and reputation, working hard in the shared pursuit of an ideal, makes sense today?
Do you understand what’s at stake?
We’ve built a world where you can slaughter your neighbours, massacre peoples, plunge regions into poverty, rape, buy organs, do whatever you want, and in the end, if your circle of blackmailed co-workers holds firm enough, you get away with a side note, you retain all your power, and on your deathbed you can commission a glamorous director to make you a flattering biopic, which will make the viewer say: “yes, he was a bit of a son of a bitch, but a nice son of a bitch” – come on.
On the other hand, you can dedicate your life to ideas you believe are right, argue with everyone, never shy away, participate, sign appeals, write incessantly, maintain consistency even in difficult situations, refuse blackmail, don’t let those in power dictate what you say, and in the end, if someone lists ten “inappropriate” incidents in their senile phase, that’s enough to engender disgust for you and throw everything you’ve done in the incinerator.
Well, I don’t know if it’s clear what lesson the new generations are learning. Then don’t be surprised.”
Certainly this whole idea of loyalty through shared crimes is nothing new, it has been used by the drug cartels at the street level as an initiation for quite a few years.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if the Epstein Files end up having long-term consequences. I’m not sure enough of my history to say what started the French Revolution, but this sure feels like something that might light the touch paper.
Epstein, the Sexguru for the rich and mighty.
Good morning, friends,
I was watching a video blog by a Dutch YouTuber called Flora Gonning about her trek in Nepal along the Manaslu Circuit. It’s something that does touch me, the beautiful views of the Himalaya mountains, the valleys, the tea houses where she stays. I think it was a wonderfully well made piece of reporting, and worth taking an hour or so to view…
https://youtu.be/7PL5zb6GxmI
It’s amazing that one can just for free go on a visual journey through a distant place, be told the story of a long mountain trek at the drop of a hat. Ain’t the internet wonderful.
Another source of wonderful videos is the YouTube channel ‘Reflections of Life’, who make short 15 minute meditations on people’s lives in South Africa. Well-made, cinematic, colourful and full of wisdom. Maybe you’d like to take a look.
https://youtu.be/_qLPnHQ8kx8
Few years ago I searched the web for “Bhagwan” and came to a video that left me confused, because it made little sense to me what the background for this could ever be.
But the lovely way “Bhagwan” was pronounced in this great song touched me deeply and I had to find out what this crazy stuff was all about.
Ready to be confused too? Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6SutyLlzws
“The real opposite of your smiles are not tears, but smiles which are painted, smiles which don’t go any deeper than the lips, which are nothing but exercises of the lips. No heart collaborates with them, no feeling stands behind them. There is nobody behind the smile, the smile is just a learned trick. Tears are not opposite to smiles, they are only complementaries. But the false smile is the real opposite.
Remember it always, the false is the enemy of the true. If your smile is true and your tears are true, they are friends, they will help each other because they both will strengthen the truth of your being. If your tears are false and your smiles are false, then too, they are friends; they will strengthen your falsity, your personality, your mask.”
( Osho, ‘The Book of Wisdom’ )
NP, you are obviously confused. Not really my business. I trust you eventually sort yourself out. Nothing more to say on the matter.
Could be…as Osho says, confusion is a great opportunity, an excellent state of mind, as certainty is the death of original thinking.
“Osho says”! NP, have you not realised that Osho said so many things and then later contradicted them, that to rely on them for some form of back-up for your current state of mind is strictly for the numpties in the class?
For example, there are numerous Osho quotes about confusion. You can choose whatever one you wish to suit your needs. How convenient. Surely it is much healthier to examine one’s state of confusion and what is at the root of it, as opposed to finding an Osho quote to put a Band-Aid on your confusion. It might temporarily cover up your confusion, but basically, it is a form of repression, and therefore, it will eventually fester.
Confusion stems from identification with the mind. If one takes a step back, one can easily see that is the case. And in doing so, the confusion will fade. No mind, no confusion. For fuck’s sake. I’m starting to sound like Satchit.
It is our destiny to all become like Satchit, spouting one-liners and pithy wisdom…That is the endgame, where Earth is ruled by spiritual zombies engaging in wisdom battles on every street corner….
Na na, spiritual zombies?
Now you drop your peaceful mask and show your real face, NP.
Kindness gone?
Did not go very deep.
https://youtu.be/1-hYdihOEqI?feature=shared
“That is the endgame, where Earth is ruled by spiritual zombies engaging in wisdom battles on every street corner….”
Sounds like a gamer’s destiny, not mine.
I was actually thinking wisdom battles as in rap battles….
A strangely appropriate image, considering Shantam’s diatribe at Sri Sri Ravi Shankar which started all this off….
“Once a man asked me, “Are you an egoist or a humble person?”
I said. “Neither. neti neti, neither this nor that. I cannot be either.” He said, “What are you talking about? One has to be either an egoist or a humble person.”
I said, “You don’t understand. You know nothing; you have never gone within yourself. If you are humble, you are an egoist standing on his head. Humbleness is an expression of the ego. I am neither. I am simply whatsoever I am, neither humble nor egoistic, because I have seen that there is no ego. How can there be humbleness then?””
( Osho, ‘The Book of Wisdom’ )
I think the whole idea of using labels to identify oneself is nonsensical. Just be as you are. Once you use a label like ‘generous’ or ‘loving’ and you apply it to yourself, that leads to identification with a concept, to using that label as a mask, forcing yourself to be that. It gets in the way of knowing yourself as you really are.
Remember this shrinking EGO?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mFuq7rxksg
“But the time has come now for a great change. The future belongs to women, not to men, because what man has done, down through these ages, has been so ugly. Wars and wars and wars — that is his whole history. All the great that man has created is…Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, Nadirshah, Alexander, Napoleon, Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong — people like these.
Yes, there have been a few men like Gautam Buddha, Jesus Christ, Krishna — but have you noted one point? They all look feminine.”
( Osho, ‘The Book of Wisdom’ )
Well. not the images of Jesus that I’ve ever seen.
Yeah, there exists no image of Jesus.
Selfies had not been invented at that time.
I guess this quote is from before the breakdown of the Ranch.
After the breakdown, he blamed it on the women and their jealousy that the breakdown happened.
‘The Book of Wisdom’ is a 1979 lecture series on the sutras of Atisha, so you may well be right.
Atisha’s birthplace is actually in a place in what today is called Bangladesh.
He travelled to Tibet from there.
This is the problem with these quotes.
They belong to a certain time and moment. They are not true for all and always.
The science of researcing the Observation of thinking:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2026/feb/19/inside-voice-what-can-our-thoughts-reveal-about-the-nature-of-consciousness
Haaah.
On the Road to find out.
That’s very funny…That is The Guardian’s weekly Long Read article, which this time was an extract from Michael Pollan’s new book on consciousness, ‘A World Appears’, which I was saying below I was so much looking forward to reading.
Thanks, Klaus!
Good morning, folks,
I came across this interview with Michael Pollan in The Guardian, it’s interesting. He has a new book coming out about consciousness, which I am quite looking forward to reading. He always approaches his subjects first as a journey in learning, because he often chooses subjects with which he is only somewhat familiar.
He then starts from a scientific view, but later experiments on himself, and he says this book on consciousness was present in seed form in the earlier book he wrote on psychedelics. A new book by Michael Pollan is a treat for me, I have much respect for him as a non-fiction writer.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2026/feb/08/michael-pollan-psychedelics-consciousness
“Meditation is a state of silence; meditation is a state of no desire; meditation is a state of no past, no future; meditation is a state when you are not doing anything, just cherishing your being. You are just happy that you are, happy that you are breathing, simply happy for no reason at all. In those moments there is meditation.”
“Deep in you, meditation is already the case. So whenever it happens that your day-to-day turmoil is a little bit less…. Maybe you are watching a sunset, and watching the sunset your constant chattering mind has become quiet, the beauty of the sunset has made it quiet. You are in a kind of awe – the wonder, the mystery, the beautiful sun setting, the night descending, the birds moving back to their nests, the whole earth getting ready to rest, the whole climate of rest. The day is gone, the turmoil of the day is gone, and your mind feels quiet. The bird on the lower branch sits for a moment unmoving. Suddenly there are not two birds any more, there is only one bird. And suddenly you feel great joy arising in you.
You think that the joy is because of the beautiful sunset. That’s where you are wrong. The beautiful sunset may have functioned as a situation but it is not because of that. The joy is coming from within. The sun may have helped, but it is not the source. It may have been helpful in creating the situation, but it is not the cause. The joy is coming from you. It is arising in you. It was there; the surface mind had only to settle in a quiet space. And the joy started arising.”
( Osho, ‘Sufis: People of the Path’ )
This is my understanding also.
NP, this is probably your profoundest post. ❤️
The Osho quote above (which I think you mean) is from a longer piece posted on OshoNews, it just struck me so much that I thought I should reproduce it. But the longer piece is on this page:
https://www.oshonews.com/2026/02/19/meditation-is-life/
Thank you.
“Mulla Nasrudin was sitting with a beautiful woman on a full-moon night talking about great things. He was getting very romantic. But women are very earthly, earthbound, very practical.
When Mulla was getting really too high the woman said, “Mulla, your love is okay, but will you marry me?”
Mulla said, “Listen, don’t change the subject.” ”
It’s funny that I’ve never heard of sannyasin women reacting like that… I came across Osho’s take on the family not too long ago, where he first talks about the commune as raising all the children and the harm that the family unit has done. Seeing with the perfect eye of hindsight, I don’t think the commune is the solution, maybe there isn’t one and we have to be content with flawed systems.
The whole system called life is flawed.
Either there is frustration because one does not get what one wants. Or one is frustrated because one gets it and
cannot hold it.
Well, it’s true that if you view life as a system it will never be perfected. But I don’t think life is exactly owing us a smooth ride either. Much of how we view life is due to how we see circumstances around us, a truck driver in India might be continually worried that he might get hijacked, a pilgrim is worried that his tractor ride might overturn…but somehow it all seems to work out, existence provides what we need, not what we want.
People always try to make life go according to their plan, but the unexpected often shows up. In a way, a mind that looks to the gods and sees miracles everywhere is a mind more easily inclined to the spiritual than a mind that looks to cause and effect, the mind of a scientist. There is less room for the unexpected in the mind of a scientist, he sees systems everywhere, but in the end that too is a matter of faith, faith in the predictability of the universe.
It is interesting if you consider recent theories that quantum fields are conscious, because that says that at very small scales the universe becomes less predictable, more a question of thought, faith, miracles.
Nityaprem, I don’t see much difference between the minds of those who believe in God and those who believe in science, both involve an unquestionable dogma and a certain predictability, due to the trust in link between cause and effect…you should reflect on the relationship between prayer and miracles.
The best gifts of life came to me after I stopped praying, emptying miracles of meaning.
I’ve never really prayed. Prayer was just the habit of my Christian grandparents.
But I don’t think it is possible to believe that the world is ordered the way it is because of God’s will, or that prayer has any effect on it. That is just believing in magic, superstition.
The world is ordered the way it is because human hands have built on what nature provided, sometimes wisely, sometimes not.
The influence of miracles comes when the unexpected touches your life, in various ways.
I am also a friend of the unexpected.
Here comes:
Sadhguru on Osho
https://youtu.be/RlFlrG6JyJw?si=_Mpd9xO8Hd8fM1dC
Veet Tom,
In this video linked below, Professor of Moral Philosophy Andrea Zhok explicitly states that, in the light of what the Epstein case is revealing, the mindset of the so-called “conspiracy theorists” is correct: the imbeciles are the others, those who blindly trust authority, those who accredit philanthropists like Bill Gates or Epstein.
Indeed, it turned out to be correct to have intuited/thought/deduced that the intentions at the highest levels of political decision-makers are different from those publicly declared, while acknowledging that what could possibly be unfounded are the specific arguments used to demonstrate the true objective, beyond the stated intentions.
Therefore, be careful in the future about pointing the finger at those who appear to you as “conspiracy theorists”, because you’ll have three fingers pointing at you, judging you as an imbecile.
The Professor quotes Marx on class consciousness, when already in the late 19th century, with the same conspiracy-theorist mindset, he envisioned the asymmetry in which a population of ants attempted to counter the domination of a group of five capitalists anonymously gathered in a London pub.
Perhaps even in a community like the Ranch, a little class consciousness, to understand the kind of power relations we are immersed in, would have avoided some of the errors Sadhguru mentions.
I’m sorry that the automatic translation into English isn’t precise, although the underlying meaning remains, as in the case of “asocial” translated and transcribed as “associate” and a few haphazardly inserted question marks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-SE31sT3t8&t=540s
That commune was poisonned by politics: by those in power and those who let it happen.
USA with Trump is just the same problem, spoken in a generalized way now.
Many Americans resist – Communards did not.
A president of low quality can be seen easily compared to a secretary of the master of masters.
A country needs a leader, a commune needs a master.
Without them the whole thing falls apart…we fear.
So get ready for meritocracy – after Armageddon!
P.S.
Francisco, you are right.
The “conspirator” was the wrong word. I was too lazy to use the “lust for conspiracy” as Icke’s description.
Saswad scene…
“Many Americans resist – Communards did not.”
It depends, Veet Tom. It’s true that the Paris Commune resisted for a few days and the Ranch for 4-5 years, but the St. Petersburg Commune lasted more than 70 years, and in any case, Osho’s commune was not explicitly founded on socialist ideas (equitable distribution of resources).
The problem isn’t occupying a piece of land, conquering it or paying for it regularly, where one’s own law is applied, but whether one has the means to defend that autonomy.
A capitalist community like the American one in the 1950s proved capable of resisting socialist communitarian ideas, even though McCarthyite propaganda had sufficient means (in the hands of a tiny minority of Americans) to influence consciences clouded by too many Coca-Colas and hamburgers in their diet.
Today, those resisting Trump aren’t all socialists—quite the opposite, they’re capitalists, like those who support Trump. I myself thought that perhaps Trump was the lesser evil compared to Biden, but instead he’s turning out to be a gatekeeper too, with a narcissistic complication.
If I found myself in the freezing cold of a mountain besieged by wolves, and had to choose between a drunken bus driver with a euphoric hangover and a half-witted bus driver licking an ice cream cone, I’d get on the latter.
A political leader often seeks to please his followers, a spiritual master invites us to become leaders of our own lives. Consequently, you can’t compare a community founded on Osho’s vision with a stratified community like the American one. In terms of destructive power, there would be no contest, but neither in terms of widespread joy.
I believe that even today in the Sangha there is no widespread political awareness of how Osho’s model, implicitly socialist, represents a danger to the capitalist socio-economic model and its values that encourage greed, in the context of rigged rules.
Probably, there is no solution anywhere & probably only the random lucky ones will get this & I have come across many first generation sannyasins who have been randomly lucky; the second generation sannyasins probably know very few who get this!
After discussing the propagandist aspects, that is the attempt to attack a guru’s teachings/truth/witnessing/being through the unfolding of his/her private behaviour (a process that would be shocking in case of lack of grace, that isth e distance between a state of perfect inner fulfilment and a state of instability that makes he/she seek satisfaction in the objects offered by the market), perhaps another reflection would be on the limitations and physical imbalances involved in placing one’s body at the service of compassion/truth/being when around you, even within your inner circle of people who should be spreading your work, there is a coherent energy field determined to destroy the vehicle of Love/Grace/Truth that is your body-mind system.
I believe that in evaluating this we cannot even exclude the role/responsibility that each person, with their own energetic field/presence/thought/activity, plays in supporting or not supporting the energetic field necessary for the master to resonate with his/her being when the guru is under attack. Therefore, I am not only talking about enemies who get too close to the guru’s energetic field, but also about supposed friends who distance themselves when the master is under attack.
This reflection only makes sense if it is conceivable that Osho may have posed a problem for a system of power that based its success on the transmission of knowledge through a rigid hierarchy operating in the shadow of esoteric/Masonic secrecy; white or black magic does not matter, if ultimately it is about power and not compassion.
A spiritual vision, as in the case of Osho, without an ordering/creating entity (while belief in an entity, Satan or God, it doesn’t matter, is a requirement for any Masonic membership) that has proven to make the treasures of the inner world accessible, without the need to shut oneself away in a hermitage, is in clear contrast with the root of any system of power.
It is a real danger because it reveals the hypocrisy of those who speak of the greater good for humanity without placing the human being at the centre of the spiritual trip.
A text on the beginning and the unfolding of the spiritual path.
How do insights happen? When can insights happen? What method can be preparatory, i.e. letting go of ambition etc?
Which path is appealing to a person? I.e. bhakti, zen, or different ones?
Consciousness and involvement with its contents.
The witness is not the end.
The gap is not “nothingness”.
Written by Christopher Titmuss, meditation teacher.
To me, a striking text. In the words. As well as between the lines.
I feel calmness. Coolness. Openness.
‘Fit to Receive’
https://www.christophertitmussdharma.org/p/fit-to-receive-a-reflection-on-going
Quote
…
In our practice of equanimity and witnessing, we realise stepping back also means a step towards something else. At this juncture, one also becomes fit to receive. Insights and realisations come out of the blue.
…
Unquote
Huhhhhhhh.
For those who do not know much about Christopher Titmuss, here is his Wikipedia page…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Titmuss
He started as a Buddhist in the seventies, and his thinking has stayed very much in that groove if you look at the titles of the books he has authored: a lot on Buddha, mindfulness, politics and everyday life.
Actually, politically-minded people IMV must value this stance of Christopher’s – who is very supportive of and engaged in social activism:
https://www.christophertitmussdharma.org/p/we-welcome-our-first-independent-mp-for-totnes-our-conservative-mp-has-been-reborn
Klaus, re-entering the European Union through the window to better satisfy the demands of the working class?
What the heck? Is this a joke or a provocation?
I’m referring to my wages over the last 25 years.
Are they worried that people will start voting for right-wing, nationalist, and xenophobic parties?
But what if the European Union was born precisely with the narrative that individual states would not survive globalization, structured by supranational institutions (IMF, WTO, OECD, World Health Organization, WHO, etc.)?
And what are the ideological pillars of the global free market?
Free movement of capital, services, goods, and people… yes, because labour is a commodity like any other, and if a British worker costs too much, they’ll do everything they can to bring in an African or Asian worker to replace him.
What applies to NGOs, which fish for labour off the coast of Libya, a free port since the assassination of Gaddafi, could also apply to Nazi-fascist groups, as false flags used to pollute the political arena of true anti-globalization sovereignists.
The Maastricht criteria are calibrated to initially favour countries with the most competitive economies, with the largest trade surpluses, and therefore with the strongest currencies and lowest public debt.
But in the global market, as we saw with Germany, this advantage lasts only for a short time, because if you start competing with the most competitive country on the global market, China, then, gradually, German workers have to work like Chinese.
Especially when the ECB is a neutral investment bank like all the others, disconnected from politics and therefore from the demands of the people, over time it will end up indebting every single state, unconcerned with the Keynesian lesson on economic cycles.
Why not bring back the Roman practice of every so often cancelling out all debt? That should keep the oligarchs in check.
It doesn’t seem like a huge provocation to me when a Dutchman jokes about an Italian’s wallet; it’s like an Italian joking with a Dutchman’s wife; no one gets angry.
NP, thank the Sephardic Jews who brought diamonds to your country, otherwise you’d be selling tulips at the traffic lights today.
Hi Klaus, do you have any fresh news on whether the patient wait has paid off?
The risk is that if you do fitness for enlightenment, you’ll imagine there must be a role model to identify with, a role model that’s too apathetic for my tastes.
It might be this postmodern ideological wave that encourages this Advaita trend.
It’s interesting, the quote I gave above about “Meditation is life” also suggests that deep down, meditation is a state that already exists, and we are just creating the right conditions for it to surface.
I think with enlightenment also there is something similar that happens, we create the right conditions for it to happen and then we wait. In waiting we let go of an awful lot of things that modern life has encouraged us to hold onto.
I’ve wondered what Osho would say of social media, I rather suspect it would be along the lines of “when you are with fellow sannyasins, be with them totally; when you are alone, don’t hold onto distant friends through electronic devices.” In a way, smartphones are too good at what they do, they create an illusion that you have your friends in your pocket.
It is like there is never a sensation of aloneness anymore, and also no sensation of togetherness. Instead, most of the time we spend in a halfway house of social media. It is like our prehistoric brains being continually in the heart of the tribe, without ever going on a lone foraging trip into the forest.
I’ve heard it said that we have brains adjusted for World 1.0, while we live in World 5.0.
Nityaprem, the things you want to let go of aren’t always at odds with meditation/enlightenment/being; they’re part of life, often the most fun part. The question is how to live them gracefully.
You and Klaus seem a bit hasty with your “doing” to make things leave you, while I’m more concerned that the same things don’t leave me too soon.
VF,
You are of course right to a large extent:
I started my meditation practice in the Hinayana tradition – working towards enlightenment in this life.
However, I have been into Tibetan Mahayana (bodhisattva vows etc.), too.
And Sufism in the market place.
Therefore, there is a mix of all of it in my motivations…
Besides all sorts of therapy in order to clean out.
MLK (Martin Luther King) quote:
“Nobody is free. Until we all are free.”
Has an appeal, too.
“No one is truly free until he/she knows what to do with freedom.” This also has a certain appeal.
That’s true. 2 me too.
Short and sweet.
Thank you, Klaus, also for sharing your life as a spiritual seeker, written in the previous forum homepage topic.
I feel great compassion for that young man from the ’80s I imagine from your words; I find my own commitment to trying to quench my thirst, the same spiritual atmospheres, near a possible source.
I read it on my mobile phone; I believe you quoted some words from Osho regarding an invitation to have an outsider approach. I’ll go back and read it more closely on my computer, but…I wonder if those words were addressed to you personally or if you chose them because they fit your character, perhaps not very sociable.
It also makes a difference if the same invitation were addressed to a spiritual seeker grateful to his community of seekers, or if the same words were casually read out of context by a self-satisfied man successful in the world of material affairs.
Outsider compared to whom/what? An outsider always and in any case, like a solipsist?
Thank you, Veet Francesco, for your feedback.
Appreciated.
After the hard work of confrontation and “Who am I?” – (some) communion. (Some) understanding.
That is how it should be.
We were really digging into it? Weren’t we?
If we don’t learn, who would?
American Billionaires?
Take care.
The outsider text came with my Sannyas letter.
So it was someone of the admin in Oregon who chose it for me.
Well, you know, I once thought computer games were fun. Now I think they are almost entirely devoid of real meaning.
Similarly with novels, most are just vehicles for fun, without much depth or reality. Not much better than other people’s dreams.
Fun doesn’t mean it contains any measure of truth. Once you start paying attention to truth, you find that fun loses its lustre.
“Similarly with novels, most are just vehicles for fun, without much depth or reality. Not much better than other people’s dreams.”
So many are published, as so many paintings, so many pieces of music, so many films, plays and dance performances are created, but to condemn all artistic creations – which are always, in the first instant, attempts at art, experiments – and place them on the level of bloody computer games is just undiscriminating foolishness, NP. I can only assume you haven’t been exposed to much high quality writing.
And we all know from experience, from what he said directly to many, including me, that Osho placed much emphasis on creative activities, but pf course not only on doing but also on reflection, regarding studying literature, for instance, as thoroughly worthwhile, even a privilege, a means whereby one can enter, experience and meditate on many otherwise hidden realms of the human psyche through the integrity and skill of gifted writers.
He said that such involvement is an opportunity to deepen understanding of human beings, of human nature, of life in all its complexity and wonder. A valuable addition to and preparation for any spiritual life dedicated to truth rather than something to be rather arrogantly dismissed as essentially shallow, meaningless.
I’m quite widely read in the Classics, SD, everything from ‘The Lord of the Rings’ to ‘Great Expectations’ to ‘The Count of Monte Cristo’. No real impulse to read them or their like again.
That’s not a particularly wide-ranging set of genres, NP.
Apologies, by the way, for having been so late with the moderation on Thursday, which was due to a major computer problem that required expert treatment until it was finally solved around 9.30pm (Uk time).
Reading is inspiring.
Current reads:
Sir Peter’s short stories show a lot of knowledge. And his humanity. Besides sharp observations. As UN ambassador.
…
More books…
Prentice Mulford
‘Vom Unfug des Lebens und des Sterbens’
Hermann Hesse
Anyone like posting their list of current reads?
Buongiorno, Klaus, speaking of digging with the words of ants and digging with the shovels of millionaires, I’ll share a few clues about the gestalt that organizes my perspective on a forum inspired by a multidimensional Master like Osho.
1) What I perceive from my interlocutors is only related to what they write and how they write it; for example, here, whether or not they use their sannyasin name could be one of the clues for me;
2) Osho is a controversial Master, especially for those who isolate his teachings from the cultural and social context in which he shared his vision; an essential part of the context, to understand Osho, is placing the sannyasins in the frame, the people who surrounded him and ideally continue to express their gratitude. In this forum, there’s traditionally more room for criticism, judgment, and resentment, and it’s therefore not representative of the world associated with OMC attendees, who are more outsiders than insiders.
3) “Outsiders” (note: I use quotation marks here) like myself, who in the early 1990s became acquainted with Osho through sannyasins, books, videos, groups, and places, might feel grateful for the Master and our community.
Privately, I feel especially comfortable sharing what I experienced in the meditation room/groups, but I’m aware that there are also market people who today only visit the worst Scottish pubs. I can’t prevent the market mentality, with its values and cynicism, from taking over this forum. In that case, I feel an easy responsibility to affirm the value of what today can be a resource for consciously experiencing the market dimension: the Zorba the Buddha vision.
4) Since it’s increasingly clear that we live in a world connected and dominated by the Epstein and friends paradigm, where part of the conspiracy of these few psychopaths (against billions of atomized ants like the rest of us) is a mountain of available information and digital solicitations designed to distract us from directions that don’t serve the market, which essentially wants to sell us a docile consumer approach (from vaccines to the war against Palestinian children), then the question remains whether, even in this forum, it’s part of our spiritual heritage to respond like misfit rebels to the dominant model of society or to react avoidantly and give free rein to millionaire psychopaths who have lost touch with reality, the most important aspect of which is that it’s not a good idea to piss off billions of ants who are not outsiders to the common destiny that is being envisioned.
The question I ask you and anyone who wants to answer is whether Osho is a function of the market or an enemy, whether he has donated red or blue pills (Matrix, film), whether there are spiritual pills that stifle the cries of horror and dismay around us.
If domination is global, does it make sense for rebellion to be individual?
Do we realize that the average community in today’s world, to which each of us belongs through emotional ties, is no larger than a millionaire’s club?
Not only do they dominate us globally, but if they wanted, they would outnumber any of our social groups, should they challenge us to a street fight.
This is my POV, regarding the importance of a community aware of what happens in the market, so as not to abdicate our dignity as human beings, so that meditation is recognized as a luxury, the fundamental value of every social group.
My final clue: political analyses of the market must be related to the achievements of the meditation hall.
sVeet Francesco.
Actually, I get a sense that you can be quite funny…
Do you have any information on measurable progress made in the social reforms department worldwide? According to your analyses and visions?
You would get my vote as the CEO or General Manager in the case that RFI will introduce a new department: Sannyas Social Reforms. Or Social Reforms as per sannyas. (Monty Phyton is calling…Judäa National Front etc…).
My first introduction to Sannyas was via a quiet meditation session at Tapoban Medi Centre, Kathmandu. From all I have read and talked about Osho in the meantime meditation seemed to be #1 priority.
As from the last comments here, now I will take ‘all departments as equals’. Due to your efforts: Gracie mille.
(In banking, departments were like separate silos – working for the success of the whole – but often not communicating; thus making everything tedious.) Sannyas is different! Of course.
Why don’t we leave aside the personal for a while?
And go with the flow. Of energy – love – visions – whatever.
So many words.
Cheers.
I know, Klaus, it can be frustrating. I write more than you do in this Sannyas forum, because for a sannyasin like me, Sannyas is different. Of course!
Otherwise, you wouldn’t come here seeking a flow that would give your life a meaningful direction, but you’re not the only renegade here experiencing this condition. Don’t despair. If the registry office grants me authorization, I’ll be able to consider your request for reinstatement under your real name.
Even when I quote a long article, I use more words in the introduction than you do when sharing something personal, that is, behind my/your mask, without which there would be no communication, and you’d have to settle for the silence of communion.
I also understand your frustration working in a bank…so plan something fun using Biden’s mask. Give to NP the Obama mask, to Lokesh the Bush Sr. mask, Kavita the Hillary Clinton mask, SD the Lincoln mask, Mr. Iqbal the Clinton mask, and me the Kennedy mask, even if it doesn’t bring good luck during the car ride home.
Communion is exactly what makes Sannyas different. Of course! This isn’t always fun for those who confuse apathetic skepticism with wisdom, sorry.
Hey, Veet,
Kindly spare me from your given mask; if I have to choose my mask it would be Helen Clark!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Clark
All right, Kavita, granted, the important thing is that you make some tasty samosas, to distribute to all the bank’s staff and customers.
Klaus’s plan does not allow for the slightest error in the dosage mix of laxative and sleeping powder. Before bed, everyone must run to the bathroom.
Impv, you are getting carried away easily: interpretations, speculations, judging and so forth.
That’s in the many words: quantity.
Impv, you’re getting carried away so easily: posting links to long articles, which I’m humble enough to read all the way through, but then you complain about the amount of bullshit I’m highlighting for your interpretation, speculation, judgment, and so forth.
Your lovely EU is leading us into World War III.
Sw. ‘Vesuvio’ Francesco,
IMPO, your rage ranting about reality is certainly not helping you.
Or anyone else.
Most likely you have got more ‘hot lava’ to spill.
That’s how lovely Pompeii was destroyed.
Keep on overflowing. You must.
Dear Iceberg Klaus,
As Satchit already pointed out to NP, your quest for sanctity by avoiding aspects of reality you don’t like forces you into a defensive posture, which results in you taking refuge in the reassuring narrative of the mainstream.
When, in a context like Osho’s, someone applies the method of honestly mirroring your aporias regarding the available data on reality, the two of you, instead of responding on the level of evaluation/interpretation of the data, react aggressively, even, as in this case, invoking Vesuvius, as if to say: burn in hell!
In the future, don’t link to any article where you don’t feel available and open to possible rebuttals; otherwise, be prepared, along with your wife, for my offensive reactions.
Veet,
Sorry, if you feel offended.
I accept your rebuttal.
Iceberg. Ok. No problem.
I know about the European reality and elsewhere.
I just don’t want to discuss the details.
Why should I?
Why was your salary low?
My salaries were low in the beginning, too: 0.23 cents per line typed in a translation office, freelance.
Were you in a union?
My first job with a real contract after graduating was in Machine Engineering – continously rising salary every year.
That is reality, too.
“My” Europe is something you interpreted. Not me.
Let it be.
No need to write back more threats.
I will not answer your comments. Enough. Confrontation.
To me, it is not ‘mirroring’, but turning the tables.
Cheers.
Ah yes, Klaus, meditation #1, but what kind of meditation? Osho gave lots of different kinds of meditations to different people to do, and he talked about 112 types in the ‘Vigyan Bhairav Tantra’.
Personally, I am inclined to do ‘just sitting’ which is also known as shikantaza. But you may find yourself drawn to other types, the only thing is I once read Osho to recommend to do a type of meditation daily for at least six months.
Trial and error. I guess is the standard.
We are sure free to switch to another, if one is not suitable.
You big cuckold, Klaus, you approach me with your fake smile, saying you’re sorry if I feel offended. With the same smile, you then address my objections, only to say that you don’t give a damn about my salary situation since it’s not yours, implying that the EU’s macroeconomic failure on wages can be refuted by the increasing of your own, the only salary that matters.
And you also ask me, in a snobbish way, not to reply, from the height of your engineering degree and the list of books you claim to have read.
This is what I despise about renegades like you.
You haven’t managed to find inspiration in Osho’s rebellious spirit.
Now you continue to bury your heads in the asshole of people like Epstein and Friends, while the Middle East, where the Master indicates much of the conspiracy against humanity was born, is burning.
@MOD
sw. veet francesco says:
1 March, 2026 at 12:55 pm, 5th and last paragraph:
“Now you continue to bury your heads in the asshole of people LIKE Epstein and Friends, while the Middle East, where the Master…”
MOD, the same-usally son of bitch post edited my comment, now in place of “LIKE” you can read “ABOUT”.
The thing is:
Are most people capable of assessing whether a type of meditation is doing them good?
Osho gave such guidelines as “easy is right” and “follow your bliss”, but he just as often recommended the Dynamic, which is a stressful affair.
Often it is only by laying down your burden of trying to achieve something through meditation that an inner release happens.
All we can do is create the conditions for meditation to arise…
“In the Western mind, man becomes body; in the Eastern mind, man becomes God. In the Western mind, the world is just materialistic; there exists nothing else but matter. In the Eastern mind, there exists nothing but God, but soul. Matter is also soul – asleep. Matter is potential soul – one day it will become soul. These are different visions. And if you have to choose, choose the Eastern vision because it has reverence for life, reverence for truth. Fact is an ordinary thing. Don’t be too much entangled by the fact.”
( Osho, ‘Sufis: People of the Path’ )
Today I have been musing about getting older, and losing fellow-travellers along the way. In my family it’s been very noticeable, all the men who were of my father’s generation have passed away in the last five years. My mother is the only one who remains of the over-seventy year olds.
In a way it has been a passing of the baton, from one generation to the next. I wonder if the family traditions such as the summer barbecue will be upheld by the new generation of elders. It is certainly a time of transition for us.
In the wider sannyasin community this is less visible; those sannyasins who were in their forties in 1980 would now be aged 85 and over, a ripe old age, but those who were in their twenties on the Ranch might just be touching 65. That generation is passing, but has not passed yet.
‘Not Dark Yet (But It’s Getting There)’…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ1bzKISLBw&list=RDFJ1bzKISLBw&start_radio=1
My God, what a song.
This board sucks.
For example, the latest ‘updates’ by Veet Francisco are posted in ‘Caravanserai’…where no thread
seems to be clearly obvious. It’s a drag. Forget it.
This chaotic board is the only place where some sort of communication is wanted and happens.
Social media – mosty facebook – almost has retired.
Another GURU award – Oscar for Osho – is here…
Just for YOU:
https://youtube.com/shorts/bojhuxbdidg?si=Tm10jc9he9RzKiG_
MOD:
Yes, Veet Tom, the SN site has many flaws as it hasn’t been looked after, updated etc. for a very long time, as there’s been no one available with the know-how to do that. SN is technically on ‘borrowed time’, it’s pretty well down to the bare bones and could collapse any day, it’s surprising it’s still alive, so enjoy it while it’s here.
And let’s not forget Clive who has funded the site during this current phase and not even mentioned this to me (I’d forgotten about that completely).
But re your other point, I’m not sure which posts by Veet Francisco you’re referring to, unless you’re not saying his posts aren’t at the main thread, but simply pointing out that the Caravanserai serves no purpose. In which case I’d agree with you!
Ye, I know about that software problem.
But Caravanserai also is the only good way to see what is new and if this could be interesting enough to go for the thread.
So at least a last and good enough overview here.
But how can one do an update?
His Holiness St. Francisco knows how to do it. I don’t.
I can only reply below a post, or to a main article, so my post reaches the last spot down below, but still the chronology is mixed often enough – hard to follow.
Just in Time to See the Sun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxAqROTVo04
Ciao, Sweet Tom,
When I write a comment, before it’s published on the homepage, I also post it on the caravanserai, because in the past, someone (who isn’t the moderator) would edit them to ridicule me, making me say things I didn’t say, like inhaling poppers in a gay bar.
After my post is published on the homepage, it automatically appears on the caravanserai for the second time, so I’ll delete one of them. I do this so that, as in the past, if anyone manages to edit my comment, I can republish the original by copying and pasting it.
Hi everyone,
I’m not a sannyasin at all — just an outsider with zero connection to Osho or the movement. I read Ma Prem Shunyo’s ‘Diamond Days with Osho’ out of curiosity and got stuck on some passages in Chapter 16, especially after seeing the sannyas.wiki page on Sw Anand Milarepa.
Exact quotes from Shunyo’s book:
From Ranch period (when she wasn’t living with Milarepa yet):
“Each time I saw Osho privately to take him tea or to accompany him on the car ride he would ask me how Milarepa was. He would chuckle at me as I told him of Milarepa’s new affairs and my distress. Many times I asked Osho: “Should I finish with him?” but he would always say no. [...] But then Osho said: “But he will miss you….” What could I do?”
From Pune 2 (when they lived together):
“He was attracted to very young people and I lost my own integrity, my own worth, by comparing myself and feeling, of course, that I fell short. I did not have the bubbling personality of a teenager, and so I was feeling lacking.”
Milarepa (Sw Anand Milarepa) is mentioned on sannyas.wiki as a long-time sannyasin, musician in the commune, etc. But there are also references to Sarito’s letter/allegations from Ranch years.
As a total outsider, the timeline confuses me: Shunyo shared regularly with Osho about Milarepa’s “new affairs” and her distress during the Ranch period — Osho asked every time and advised not to break up.
So my question: Could Shunyo have mentioned anything about Milarepa’s attraction to very young ones in those talks, or did she not know/realize the full extent back then (since the “very young people” part comes only later in Pune 2)? Could Osho have been aware of any such patterns from her or others, or was it all outside his knowledge?
No agenda, just trying to understand the historical context from public sources. Appreciate any thoughts from those who know the book or the times better.
Thanks for the open discussions here.
Gregory, before expressing my point of view, I’d like to know if you’re an adult or a minor, and what you think of the story, as an outsider.
If, among many things you could ask about Osho, you post on the forum about a 40-year-old story in which the main character can’t answer because he’s been dead for decades, it’s likely that you’ve made some moral investment in good and evil, pleasure and sin, body and spirit…in short, tell us about your neuroses.
But above all, with everything happening regarding the recently begun Third Hot World War, thanks to the mutual sexual blackmail in which our leaders are held by the balls, you’re curious to hear about these old stories. Are you also an Emmett Brown fan, looking for 1980s psycho-cults?
Sw. Veet francesco,
Gon’t worry, I’m an adult, although I’m much younger than the people writing in this forum. As an outsider, all these stories seem wild and incomprehensible to me. They say completely different things about one person, as if they were talking about different people, and nothing is clear at all.
I’m not particularly interested in the psychocult, it’s just that Rajneesh always seemed to me to be a very deep and wise man, even though he periodically flogged complete nonsense. And what has surfaced recently, especially compared to the mawkish memoirs of the 90s, does not quite fit into my exuberant head. And no one really understands it.
But I’m just interested in the opinion of the people who were there, even though I understand that this is a kind of blind spot. But the mind can’t stand uncertainty, what can you do?
I have the woman who can satisfy your curiosity, Gregory, her name is Ma Anand Puja.
Her toy boy recently passed through this place. Try asking him or, if necessary, yourself.
Yes, I understand your confused mind, even though you expressed a clear opinion on the “mawkish memoirs of the 90s” that might imply that you are looking for something that confirms such judgment, for example with less sweet memories from the 80s, even bitter ones.
So don’t get down; with a little effort, you’ll be able to find that woman…just avoid accepting food from her hands…if you want to avoid talking nonsense and having bouts of intense nocturnal lust afterwards.
Hi Gregory,
Thanks for stopping by. Personally, I think that Osho did know, but didn’t particularly care. I mean, teenagers often married older men in rural India in that time, so the idea wouldn’t be foreign to him.
I’ve heard that Osho once said that the ashram wasn’t for kids, in the days of Poona 1, but there were always some around. I was 7 when I visited there in 1979.
I understand that ‘Children of the Cult’ is going to be shown on Dutch tv on March 8th, so maybe there will be other questions about this.
So this Swami Milarepa is supposed to be that evil abuser?
Such rare cases in Sannyas like “Epstein files” are an open secret?
Didn’t know that….
A lot of this material about Milarepa and what went on with the teenage girls on the Ranch came out first in private Facebook groups and later to the public in Sarito Carroll’s memoir ‘In the Shadow of Enlightenment’. It wasn’t just Milarepa, there were hundreds of swamis having sex with underage girls on the Ranch, according to the book.
The documentary ‘Children of the Cult’ interviewed quite a few of the people involved. A lot of the girls are now adults in their fifties, but their lives were substantially affected by these things. It’s been discussed on SannyasNews when the documentary was shown on English tv and was on Facebook for a brief while.
Nityaprem, I’d like to point out that you’re talking about teenagers while promoting a book whose title itself is about children, and not just sexually abused children, but children of parents who were themselves mentally abused by a guru, the leader of a psycho-cult.
If the book’s title refers to children aged 0 to 12, you’re talking about teenagers aged 13 to 19, not taking into account that the age of consent has since changed, raised almost everywhere. For example, the age of consent in Italy until 1987 was 13 (the biblically appropriate age for procreation); today it’s 16.
This should prompt some caution, given that if today you wanted to judge the same sexual conduct on the Ranch by people of different nationalities, you’d have to consider their nationality and culture. The same act would have been judged differently by judges of different nationalities; perhaps in some countries it wouldn’t even have been punishable under civil law.
You might argue that the law of the country where those events occurred applies, but then, if it’s just a techno-legal issue, you should stop acting like a moral avenger on your shiny time machine.
Otherwise, you’d find yourself in the position of some guardian of divine law sentencing to death a drunken Dutch sodomite who spouts nonsense during Ramadan, your own legal logic at work when you rage against an American, his only crime being that he doesn’t live in Holland, where the age of consent was 12 until 2002.
You continue this campaign to defend children abused in America in the 1980s, a country famous for its tradition of sensitive policies for the protection of children (policies that the US loves to export worldwide whenever it has the chance), but you don’t realize that while you’re hypnotized by the noun “children,” so charged with emotion, induced by the propaganda campaigns of your famous philanthropic heroes, from some orifice left unguarded by your already underperforming critical sense, the peaceful idea creeps into your brain (and others like it) that the adjective is “follower”,implicit if you’re part of a cult: children and adults did sex following the teaching of the guru.
Yes, because children are innocent creatures, even if they’re grandparents today, and if they say they were abused, we must believe them, even when they describe the context where those events occurred as a cult.
Perhaps you could feel less hypocritical and more sober by using a tenth of the energy you’re using to promote your anti-cult campaign, offering a few words of compassion for the children of the war cult, in these hours.
I feel a certain disgust for greedy people (they say the Dutch are greedy, but I don’t think all of them are; I’ve known very sweet sannyasins with big hearts). They tend to accumulate everything, even resentment, along with feces. They don’t know how to let go, forget, or forgive.
Even the justice system must be paid, even after years. The fact that this law is always recognized reassures them.
“Evil, as has been said elsewhere, is extraordinarily banal: it is the dedication of small, enormously frustrated men, capable of spending their lives — their own, but especially those of others — to “obtain profits”, that is, to gain further power without anything significant to do with it; that is, ultimately, to feel like winners, to avoid perceiving themselves as “losers,” “defeated,” “poor wretches.” ”
Dedicating one’s life and energy to the battle for profit is a real vocation, widespread among many small men raised in the great, mad menagerie of modernity, subhumans who find their revenge in it.
The resentful triumph of the lack of love.” Professor Andrea Zhok
(a big heart, despite having banned me on Telegram… perhaps he could scold me in this case too; at the end of the quote I translated his “nothingness” as “lack of love.” Around here, “nothingness” has a positive connotation, a condition of the divine’s precipitation.)
“Meditation is the only resource against nuclear destruction” (Osho, a bit from my memory).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom_and_Diversity
Veet Francesco, I am far from some avenging evangelist, I’m well aware of the shifting moral codes of the times but merely want to make sure the facts are not buried under a tide of indifference.
Many young women at the Ranch were subjected to extraordinary pressure by their environment to have a lot of sex, with different swamis, and it didn’t do their later lives much good. They weren’t given the time and space to find their feet in the world of relationship. It’s a sad story, that free love ends up doing harm.
There is a wider perspective, not all of the kids had this experience, and to overexpose the story also hurts the cause of a balanced view on the communes. But it should be mentioned as a cautionary tale.
Nityaprem, it’s not a question of indifference. You don’t have to have lived on a ranch to have been exposed as a child and adolescent to the social effects of the collapse of the millennia-old dam erected by priests and nuns of (others’) sexual repression, a high and long wave, unleashed by the sexual revolution of the 60s.
I was born in ’64, believe me, very morbid years, especially for women in my case…Imagine the scene:
July sea, Lazio coast, 197…6 (or 7?), she’s my age, adorable, I don’t know how to begin, yes, privacy, we walk, we walk…then, a free beach, wide, half-deserted, from the shore we go to sit where the sand is deep and hot, a little further back are the dunes and a bit of vegetation, we talk, we talk…
I keep my eyes down, trying not to look at her too much, trying to control my erection in my too-small swimsuit, according to the fashion and wallet of my mother back then, before the baggy shorts of today.
I lose all track of time; paradise awaits me between those thighs, those breasts, that mouth, in fact I don’t notice that there are fewer and fewer people strolling along the shore; The sun must have been incredibly strong, almost a relief compared to the lava swelling my cavernous, spongy tissues.
It’s about to happen; maybe I’ll find the courage to ask her for a kiss, if just I had the right language to do it, but there’s no rush; meanwhile, I try to bridge the gap between the poetic love I dreamed of as a child and this new, powerful thing happening to my body.
In the distance to the left, where a couple of kilometres ago I had the family beach umbrella, the reality principle draws my attention like a bucket of icy water on August 15th: the bringing near of the familiar silhouette of two women walking briskly, almost martially, on the beach.
One is the dark, tall, and austere figure of my grandmother, wearing the long black dress to mourn my uncle’s death, a couple of years earlier; the other, shorter, in a one-piece swimsuit, also black, is my mother; the end of the eruption, the snow starting to fall.
They arrive like two vultures on two paralyzed lambs, close enough to blot out the sky and the sea, with the inquisitive attitude of the many priests and nuns I’d met at school or parish, extinguishing the smile of that flower I’d nurtured and contemplated so carefully to my left.
My grandmother, with her contempt, targeted her, asking rhetorical questions about shame, while my mother blamed me for my disappearance, especially the wrong reasons for it, for my clean fingers, just moments before dipping them into the jam.
The girl, whose name I perhaps forgot in that moment, looked at me sweetly and vulnerably, with a slight expectation. I said nothing but looked down, before noticing the disappointment in her eyes. She stood up, and I didn’t even see her as she walked away behind me, among the dunes, that failed paradise, my personal Ranch.
I hope you and your group of victims are not indifferent to putting things into perspective, including the human and hormonal story of Osho himself, who in those years found himself riding the same tsunami, alongside the more or less young bodies of women in bathing suits, as they discovered a sexual pleasure free from guilt and the moral obligation to procreate.
Disturbing the spiritual framework of a joyful exploration of life, which claimed to include sex, imv, was the power system that for three years at the Ranch attempted to obscure the master’s vision, an attempt likely directed from places outside the Sangha, judging by certain clues.
A few years earlier: the matriarchal version of the same control of consciousness, which even when not explicitly repressive of sexual life, after a certain level of “interference” with what remains of community life, could awaken dormant defence strategies in the cauldron of the collective mind of that group of pioneers of consciousness, especially among men, pushing adult men toward softer and more malleable feminine energies…
just an intuition, to explain why the phenomenon discussed in the book seems confined to that temporal black hole of about three years.
In case I’ll answer you later, regarding the importance of critically examining the spiritual journey.
Yes, thank you, Nityaprem, I had already read about the feat, if it’s true he’s a champion, not everyone can stop the heartbeat while maintaining an erection.
A clarification to my comment from March 5, 2026, at 1:43 pm, penultimate paragraph, where I write about women in power at the Ranch:
“a few years earlier: the matriarchal version of the same sexual repression, awakening dormant defenc7e strategies in the cauldron of the collective mind of that group of pioneers of consciousness, especially among men, pushing adult men toward softer and more malleable feminine energies…”
From what I’ve read and heard, it might seem that Ma Anand Puja and her group of zealous performers weren’t against sex, given that the presence of gloves and condoms in the sannyasins’ quarters was a structural requirement. Formally, this is the case, but they weren’t.
In practice, even if one doesn’t follow a doctrine that ethically condemns sex, one can still be sexually repressive.
When the rest of one’s life, not dedicated to sex, is conditioned by the presence of an oppressive/controlling power, there is the possibility that that matriarchal or patriarchal “presence,” the primary source of neurosis, prohibits the free flow of sexual energy, leaving it confined to the genitals, satisfying the primary need for pleasure as compensation for a lack of recognition of one’s own dignity, which primarily requires freedom from the domination of the arrogant.
It reminds me a little of my resistance to having sex in a well-known therapeutic community, where intimacy was also supposed to be part of the therapy, at the times, places, and methods decided by the therapists present everywhere: in my tantric vision, the sexual act thus “packaged,” isolated from the meditative process, is weakened (castrated) by its potential to awaken other energy centres or regions of consciousness.
I hope this makes explicit what I had in mind when I spoke of matriarchal power.
For this reason, @MOD, you could correct my old comment I quoted above as follows:
“…a few years earlier: the matriarchal version of the same control of consciousness, which even when not explicitly repressive of sexual life, after a certain level of “interference” with what remains of community life, could awaken dormant defence strategies in the cauldron of the collective mind of that group of pioneers of consciousness, especially among men, pushing adult men toward softer and more malleable feminine energies…”
This was the piece I wrote for SannyasNews a few months after ‘Children of the Cult’ came out:
https://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/12898
I think now that the documentary is largely about the abused girls, and doesn’t represent all of the sannyasin kids of that time. There have been meetings on Zoom of a wider group with more diverse opinions, which I was part of. But the docu is still a valuable point of reference, for the abused and the abusers.
There was a class action court case against Osho International Foundation, but that has now been dropped due to statute of limitations problems, I saw in an interview in a German paper. It’s too old, people are dying, and so it seems there won’t be compensation and costs for therapy paid for through the courts.
“If you are sitting on the grass, don’t go on pulling it up and destroying it. I had to stop sitting on the lawn – I used to give darshan on the lawn – because people would go on destroying the grass, they would go on pulling on the grass. I had to stop it. People are so violent, so unconsciously violent, they don’t know what they are doing. And they were told again and again, but within minutes they would forget. They were so restless they didn’t know what they were doing. The grass was available to their restlessness so they would start pulling it up and destroying it.”
( Osho, ‘Sufis: People of the Path’, Vol. 2 )
“Spring comes and the grass grows by itself”!
Btw, searching “grass” I found this photo, a rare one, guarding the paywall of: “Frankfurter Allgemeine” with its article: “Pychologie von Gruppen: Die Anziehungskraft der Sekte” – von Stella Marie Hombach, 21.04.2023
Subtext:
“Gurus locken mit der Verheißung von Liebe und Erleuchtung. Was treibt Menschen dazu, ihnen zu glauben?
Google Translate:
“Gurus lure people with the promise of love and enlightenment. What drives people to believe them?”
Sorry, website journalism more and more is hiding its content, but the photo is nice. It obviously shows a therapeutic or meditation group (Poona?), mostly with NEWBIES before taking Sannyas. I know the boy on the left, he later on lived in my hometown, Bremen. I forget his name, right now.
And that famous green where Osho gave darshan later on was just open to workers and residents. But I prefered the samadhi (grave) of Osho’s father right beside that lawn. It was shadowed by bamboo and and so chilling to lay down there on the cool marble.
Satsang on the lawn with Osho in Pune, circa 1975
Just btw: ‘The Grass Is Always Greener’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-htnqmlgKE
It seems to me that to examine one’s spiritual journey with a critical eye is not really worthwhile. All the things you did and participated in brought you to the point you have reached today, and what seems bad to you today may seem neutral tomorrow. So to say “sannyas was a cult” and should be condemned seems foolish to me now.
The only thing you might say is “these things were helpful and I am grateful for them”, and leave the rest unsaid. That way, you build on the helpful things going forward and allow the rest to be forgotten. It’s not necessary to carry the deep markings of a lifetime’s exact memory and regret.
As you live, you accumulate a lot of debris. Things you identify with, things which grabbed your youthful enthusiasm, things you were encouraged to believe by teachers and priests. The spiritual journey consists of letting it all go, and that includes attachment to the memories. Eventually death also takes the body.
Nityaprem,
If a critical examination of the spiritual journey really isn’t worthwhile, how would you know if you’re going in the right direction?
How could you distinguish between experiences that enhance the journey and those that lead you astray?
On what would you base wisdom if not learning from mistakes?
Yes, defining and recognizing mistakes requires critical examination.
If you, or your friends who were with you at the Ranch, say you lived in a cult, you’re making a clear point: that experience in the Oregon desert contradicts the values that should underpin the spiritual journey.
The reader should conclude that if that experience caused so much suffering in those young people, to the point that after 40 years it has precluded them from pursuing alternative spiritual paths that could heal those wounds, then it’s best to stay away.
If that experience had centered on the existential compass offered by Osho, by YOUR inviting us, NP, to uncritically forget all the consequences of using that tool, you are denying the possibility that there could have been, or could still be, joyfully successful uses/applications of that vision, especially in matters of healing.
I share the solidarity and empathy you feel for your friends; this doesn’t mean that the victims of the past can’t become the perpetrators of today, the same lack of compassion and forgiveness.
Andrea Zhok:
THE DANGEROUS ERA OF MURDERING VICTIMISM
“When one discovers that the majority (73% according to the latest poll) of the civilized, educated, democratic Israeli population supports a sort of “final solution” towards the Palestinians, one cannot help but ask: how is this possible? How is it possible that someone, faced with manifest, ongoing forms of abuse and violence against innocent people (children, the elderly, civilians), continues to calmly defend these activities?
In the case of the Israeli population, it is a population that has internalized through education a vision of itself as victims of history, as fragile and oppressed individuals, who therefore have an implicit right to comprehensive “preventive self-defence.”
In essence, since “we” are indebted to history and humanity, we can afford what others cannot. The position of exemplary victim places us in an unsurpassed position of superiority, morality, which greatly simplifies every decision: I don’t have to weigh rights and wrongs because everything I do falls by definition under a form of “preventive self-defence.” It’s enough to assume that the other person could represent, from any perspective, a threat to me, and I am legitimized by my role as victim to resort to any form of suppressive initiative. Etc….”
t.me/andreazhok/651
Veet Francesco, is there even such a thing as a direction in the spiritual journey? A direction presumes a sequence of steps, where each one follows the next and ultimately leads to the goal.
Certainly from Osho’s discourses such a thing does not appear to exist. Often in Q&A sessions he tells people, this that you are feeling is a good thing, go more deeply into it. But steps and direction are not discernible.
There is a discussion in Buddhism about gradual versus sudden enlightenment, and you might believe that for those who believe in gradual enlightenment there are steps and direction. Yet I haven’t been able to discover such a thing.
I think it is because any idea of a direction or sequence of steps reduces enlightenment to a mechanical recipe, something of low consciousness within the mind. And how can a high consciousness result from a low consciousness recipe?
Nityaprem, you’re the one who mentioned a spiritual journey. I don’t know your map of consciousness and its value system. If you’re now telling me your spiritual journey has no direction, it could mean you’ve achieved what you were looking for, and therefore you’re stuck, standing still, or you find it comfortable to chase your tail.
You need a thorough critical examination to tell me which of the two options is the right one for you, so that more accurate feedback can follow. In the meantime, I’ll try to write a story about my argument with my former Ashtanga yoga teacher, now re-appointed by me as an IAG teacher.
A friend from the yoga group asked me to try Osho meditation techniques at the same gym, possibly at a time that’s compatible with those who want to practise yoga. After preparing the programme for a month’s trial, all that was missing was the yoga teacher’s approval, as she’s the only instructor at the gym who’s supposed to understand Eastern things (she has a degree in physical education, a scientific-logical-mathematical approach, and is highly skeptical of metaphysical subjects. During practice, she often speaks of “concentration” of the mind. She’s never been to India or read about it so she gains a broader perspective on the wealth of spiritual approaches, etc.).
I discovered that after hypocritically giving me permission to propose Osho to the gym owners, she actually refused.
When pressed, she denied it. Extremely disappointed not to receive a response, I speculated that the problem for her might be me, Osho, or money, since meditation techniques could empty her private Ashtanga classes.
Quite furious, and since it wasn’t polite to respond by considering the hypotheses about her lack of respect for me and her greed, I hypothesized the reputational hypothesis of the leader of a psycho-cult, which went mainstream with the documentary ‘Wild Wild Country’.
So I reminded her that her insistence on concentration has nothing to do with meditation, although those with a vague understanding of meditation can meditate during yoga practice with her, and that her teacher is also quite controversial, particularly regarding his brahmacharya claims.
I sent a few links about her teacher (including one from Osho who talks about toxic and nurturing personalities) to the gym receptionist’s chat and to the yoga class chat.
Then, this morning, cooled down, like every Saturday for the past seven years, I went to do Indian Acrobatics Gymnastics with her.
The people of the Italian provincial community can continue their spiritual journey behind their masks of ‘quiet desperation’.
How do they live without hugs, smiles, dancing, celebration, silence? (Every now and then I try to hug… but too many wary looks).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12A_mrdTI6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-gItiQUr7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIR0gdq3Tqg
In the same small town where I live, there’s a very nice disciple of Swami Rama; he’s supposed to be returning from a retreat in India next week.
I’ve practised with him, but I find it a bit tiring to follow.
There’s too much theory for me, as I tend to intellectualize. There’s always the risk of philosophical dispute arising…perhaps because Swami Rama had a philosophical background, as well as a monastic one?
Yet Osho had also studied philosophy…it seems the two met, and that S.R. saw a spark of enlightenment in that young man.
Maybe I’ll go and do a few sessions with the smiling Simone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvwucv8ZzCc
A goal-oriented mind was a no-no in Osholandia. A goal, as you more or less write NP, requires movement in one direction or another. If there is a step to be taken it must be taken back. Stand back and watch the show. If you catch my transcendental drift.
I can recall, during my time with Poonjaji, that he often had a theme to his talks that, on occasion, ran for a few days. One of those themes was throwing away one’s compass, because a seeker does not need directions. The abode of truth being here and now.
Of course, verbose windbags will create all kinds of mental constructs to illustrate how far along the spiritual path they are, which amounts to less than nothing. It is all just talk. People who abide in truth have no need to make a fuss about themselves by producing pages of blah-blah. They remain silent.
This is why Osho said, “When silence arises from your own heart with a deep understanding, by and by you become silent. In fact, then you don’t become silent; you by and by drop the talk – the inner talk, the outer occupation. Then silence is not the thing; you just understand that the whole talking is nonsense. Why go on talking? For what? There is nothing to say, but you go on talking.” Or in certain cases you go on writing, as if you have something to prove, when you don’t.
I wonder if among the sannyasins who shared the presence of other gurus after Osho’s death, besides the popular Poonja, they also considered sharing the presence of Swami Rama.
Possibly, if it’s true that Osho never commented on Swami Rama, even though he was asked the question a few times.
I agree with what Lokesh says, quoting Osho and Poonja, about throwing away compasses and sinking into the here and now. The problem is that even these indications can become compasses, methods for achieving a result, even the smallest one, by not thinking about the result.
In my opinion, Osho would have recommended different compasses to those overly oriented by minds sensitive to drugs, alcohol, food, sex, money, success, sainthood…
Perhaps he would have recommended the Primal group to me (40 years ago), a couple of months of Dynamic Meditation three times a day to Nityaprem, a placebo shamanic group to Lokesh (using a broccoli tea with the roots still holding some soil), and an intensive tantra for men only to Mr. Iqbal.
It is not a question of going into a direction but of the recognition that you are already the one you are searching
for.
Then it may happen that silence speaks. Or not.
I think that Osho was a great rascal. The talking was all nonsense, but he talked more than anyone. People kept on asking him questions, and he kept on answering.
For the few like him, perhaps Ramana said it best when he explained “when people can’t follow my silence, I direct them to self inquiry; when they don’t make progress with self inquiry, I ask them to sing bhajans at the temple.”
https://youtu.be/jPzP_zEuFwA?si=BoK7gfHER50gmWJu
Stumbled upon it again…a minor cineastic and spiritual outcome – that was my previous early judgement…but at least the best trial and error for a movie on Osho? Now – for the first time with subtitles – I will try again and I could sneak in for something promising…
First tune in to:
Subtitles: Set Direct Automatic Translation for your language.
This is the first time I found this film to be interesting. Because of its low-drama and low-budget nature, I wasn’t particularly interested. But now I’ve found some truly interesting things. The film is authentic and pleasantly simple in its production, and the songs, with their lyrics, are significantly more engaging this time.
The “rebellious”aspect makes perfect sense…many of these anecdotes are familiar from his speeches and books. He was always straightforward, strong, and un conventional—or rather, a free spirit and individualist—from the very beginning. The film beautifully illustrates this, for example, in the school scenes.
A very inspiring adaptation, strangely different at times, almost like a documentary, then again mystical. The film deserves to be acquired by television and perhaps receive a good dubbing, or at least good subtitles.
First, however, we need to find sponsors with a multi-cultural bent, like reputable channels such as Arte, 3Sat, etc., and editors who professionally acquire films. After all, India is now a wonderful new trading partner for our poor Germany.
Veet Tom, I liked the film (how many years ago?), the budget limitations you mentioned are evident on screen.
In Italy, I don’t think the conditions are right for your admirable project; our friend has never been as trivialized as he is today.
Journalists and politicians today only mention Osho to refer to a pseudo-political satire author who pleases the people in charge with photomontages and captions (he became famous for initially using Osho’s photos, before Pune lawyers stopped him, perhaps claiming the publishing rights), while there’s a very popular TV quiz show that makes a ridiculous parody of him.
I may have already posted the two videos below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRipnS6FaGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyj_Wi60yNU
What are these tv programme people saying here, Veet Francesco?
Satyadeva, in the first video, I don’t think the subtitles tool is useful. The song says, “Open (and close) fontanelles-soft spot (seventh chakra), take the energy (here, there) and put it on…(pointing to the genitals).”
The second video (an interview with “Osho”) has English subtitles to select.
I searched for Swami Rama on Sarlo’s guru, but the site is down. On SN, the search engine doesn’t seem to find anything. Have you ever met him?
Neither met nor heard of him before reading your post, VF.
I thought the interview with “Osho” was rather fun, that he posts fotos of Osho while making him say fun things in a Roman dialect is just chef’s kiss. Great that it went viral. Pity that OIF took exception and didn’t see that any publicity is good publicity…
Nityaprem, it’s one thing to desecrate a clown, but another to desecrate a master.
You’d be right if Osho had given three-minute talks and then an hour and a half of jokes.
It seems to me like a way to make him inoffensive, creating clownish expectations around him after he was framed as the leader of a psycho-cult—and I’m not just referring to the well-known documentary.
I’m not so convinced that this kind of publicity gets people reading more Osho books, quite the opposite, when “Osho” in our country is increasingly being referred to as “Federico Palmaroli.”
Obviously, the answer, given the imbalance of power between those who want to meditate and those who want to bomb, can’t even be censorship, especially since meditating under bombs is unwise.
@MOD
errata corrige at March 10, 2026 at 9:17 am, last paragraph:
“Obviously, the answer, given the UNBALANCE of power among those who…”
I believe (if I remember what was going through my mind) that I was referring to the fact that those who want to neutralize Osho now can also use the argument of sannyasins’ lack of self-irony, so the censorship was counterproductive. Then, I also implied (jocking) that even if, absurdly, that censorship helped to defend Osho’s image, his detractors, if frustated, would still have had the option of brute force (the allusion to meditating under bombs).
It’s interesting to retrace the thought processes, when something you forgot, written long ago, isn’t entirely clear, considering also that an automatic translator was used and seemed efficient at the time.
Swami Rama’s entry on Sarlo’s page:
Sri Swami Rama M 1925-1996 Breath control, hatha yoga, ayurveda. “Demonstrated under lab conditions precise conscious control of autonomic physical responses and mental functioning – feats previously thought impossible.” Renounced high poohbah position to pay serious dues in Himalayan caves, studied with many teachers, etc. Sober, somewhat institutional, methodological approach. Some sexual abuse dirt. Himalayan Institute
Yes, thank you, Nityaprem, I had already read about the feat, if it’s true he’s a champion, not everyone can stop the heartbeat while maintaining an erection.
When it all boils down, who is Sarlo, and what credentials does he have to rate anyone? Answer~ Sarlo is nobody special and he has no credentials.
I don’t think Lokesh adds much information about Sarlo, speaking of qualities Sarlo doesn’t possess, coming from someone who’s very sparing in his compliments, such comment isn’t easily decipherable.
Link after link, as a starting point for the vast panorama encompassing a Master and faded attempts at imitation, it seems to me that the site does a bit of dissemination.
I don’t think Lokesh sees anyone capable of carrying out the mission that Sarlo, perhaps playfully, has taken upon himself.
On spiritual journeys and organized crime in a psycho-cult in the wild country:
“An old acquaintance of mine, Swami Rajesh, affectionately known on the Ranch as “White Boy”, wrote a fascinating book about his experiences during this time called ‘The Day We Got Guns#, which was published after he died from emphysema at the age of 61 – he’d always been a heavy smoker.
In his book, Rajesh described his adventures as a spook, working for Sheela, thoroughly enjoying his undercover surveillance work on and off the Ranch.
With raw honesty, he also described the endgame, when his illegal activities were exposed and he faced imprisonment.
But the most touching moments were his conversations with FBI agents and his own family members, when he confessed everything and yet still, through it all, valued his spiritual connection with Osho.
He could not defend what he did in Osho’s name, but never lost that basic link.
At the end of his book, Rajesh described how, three years after the Ranch ended, he visited Pune to see Osho, who’d returned to his old ashram after his World Tour:
“On arriving, I write Osho a letter. I confessed that I’d been involved in criminal acts at the Ranch, and that I’d betrayed everyone, including myself, by not exposing the corruption I witnessed behind the scenes. I admit that despite my ugly actions, I had a great time.
Osho writes back, in his divinely detached way, that he’s happy I enjoyed it.
White Boy’s situation, and my own, reminded me of Alan Watts, a well-known Zen teacher in the 1960s, who once observed that, on the spiritual journey, during the process of losing one’s ego:
“The consequences may not be behaviour along the lines of conventional morality.”
Eloquently said! In other words, one’s own self-identity as a “good person” may go down the tube.
Reading Rajesh’s story and remembering this quote from Watts, I understood why I had been so interested in discovering what had happened.
I’d been trying to squeeze my understanding of events at the Oregon Ranch into the wrong box. I’d been struggling to find an explanation that would satisfy my own ideas about conventional morality.
Only one problem with that: it didn’t work. Not with Osho.
“Who knows why he let it happen?” Rajesh had mused in his book. “You can never second-
guess a master.”
To me, it was like a koan, which, after leaving the Ranch, I’d bring out and chew on, usually around three o’clock in the morning, when I couldn’t sleep.
It bothered me for several years: a koan that seemed to have no answer but wouldn’t go away.
But I was wrong. This particular koan did have an answer. It came to me in the autumn of 1987, when I returned to Pune and saw Osho after a two-year gap.
I was sitting in Chuang Tzu Auditorium, waiting for him to come out and give his evening discourse.
Osho walked in. Instantly and involuntarily, for the first time in two years, I found myself sinking into a deep state of inner silence and peace.
My mind stopped and meditation began.
Journey’s end? Well, not exactly. Not for this pilgrim. But it was the end of a two-year wrestling match inside my mind.
The koan had been answered, as all koans should, by a taste of No Mind.”
https://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/7709
I watch television, the feminists are talking, “Patriarchy is war”, framed by the camera on a mural in the city.
They criticize one of the laws passed by a government led by a woman, in the remaining time of her main activity as a lady-in-waiting to rich men… not all the law is wrong, harsher punishments rules are fine, but something more structural is needed, they want more seats of power, emulating the peaceful matriarchy of Margaret T., Ursula v. L., Roberta M….
For me, women in power are more dangerous, because in the event of war, I wouldn’t be able to kick them in the balls. I project my mother, sister, girlfriend onto the women; no one should touch them, not even with a flower.
This could explain why the gang of women at the Ranch were able to spread so widely.
Does this mean that the only ones who could oppose them, the rest of the women (and mothers) in the community, identified with them?
I believe that in the narrow circles of conspirators against humanity they have understood this.
On Sheela in Poona 1 – from Facebook: ‘Sannyas Lost & Found
I remember the day in Poona One when all available guards found around the Ashram were urgently transported to an unfinished building somewehre around Boat Club Road / Bunt Garden Road (In that street was an Ashram house for groups as well). We had to stand around a shack where Sheela organized our troop to look like defending security quards – one man every 10 metres. That hut was to contain a baking oven and had been built quickly overnight. In those days in India a new building was legal if it happened overnight – we learned.
But the neighbours had been fighting this matter by aggressively attacking and damaging this shack. Sheela and a high police officer walked along the defence line of maybe twenty guards. We were positioned that way to significantly manifest our house right to defend property and building. Sheela excitedly reported to the commander about the previous escalation. I heard her say: “They even called me a bloody fucking bitch” …then both patrolled out of my hearing range.
A “Sheela presentation” – maybe a year before Osho left the town. The story had begun to take shape.
When I copied Chitbodhi’s chapter 27 where he wrote about the – in his eyes – “grim peace force agents holding their guns in Rajneeshpuram”…I remembered that early happening above, on a much smaller range of course.
I will now add another small episode with Sheela on Krishna Roof, Poona One:
Living around the Ashram and being a guard myself I was also aware of quite a few nutcases and criminal activities by a few lost Sannyasins, quite tragic and even deadly sometimes. Drugs and financial deals – horror trips – even a few suicides – and also rare murder – not always just made up by the press or resentful Indian politicians…
When Sheela called the guards to meet her for a special instruction, she demonstrated a rapid technique – a circular move – to grab hold of the mala of someone who just freaked out and went aggressively mad. This act was presented to take away the outside Sannyas connection from someone who might really create a bad press or a real police operation. If we should come across a dead corpse we also were adressed to quickly take the mala away, so no stories against the Ashram could be created out of this unclear drama.
We then trained a quick movement there on the roof for a few times. Grab it with one hand only, then twist and quickly lift it over someone’s head without getting tangled or stuck …
Sheela somehow was also the temporary “boss” of the “Shiva Guards” (internal term) but in those days such adjustements were still understandable and on a low scale of politics, but….
That image fits to part 1 – above.
Btw:
Sarlo’s Guru Rating Service is still available…
https://web.archive.org/web/19991128202942/www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ratings.htm
Grazie, Veet Tom, to your big heart.
This was placed on the ‘Vrienden Van Osho’ Dutch website (translated via Apple Translate):
“On March 8, 2026, KRO-NCRV broadcast the documentary ‘Generation Bhagwan’, a film by the Dutch filmmaker and author Maroesja Perizonius. This denounces the sexual abuse of minors that took place in some communes of the Bhagwan movement in the 1980s. Although there was no question of sexual assault or rape, the transgressive behaviour that some teenagers of some adults experienced in some communes brought them into great mental distress. The victims of that time now speak out as people over fifty.
Anyone who takes cognisant of Maroesja’s story wonders if Osho (Bhagwan) was aware of this aspect of communal life, what he thought of it, and whether he felt responsible for it. And since it is our primary task to inform about Osho’s vision, primarily through this website, we feel called to answer these justified questions.
Apart from exceptions, media coverage of Osho has shown a negative pattern for decades. Also in 2025, examples of this can be found in articles about the documentary in the national press. Sensational clichés such as “semi-criminal, totalitarian cult” and “systematic sexual abuse of minors within the sect of the Indian sex guru” paints a picture in which we, and many friends who lived in Osho communes or visited them regularly, do not recognise ourselves. It also completely ignores the fact that Osho still inspires countless people on their path of meditation in word and image and writing.
This does not alter the fact that we take the accusations of Maroesja Perizonius et al seriously and believe that they deserve further investigation in terms of nature and scope. We sympathise with the women and men involved who, after forty years or more, are still burdened by nasty memories of transgressive behaviour to which they were exposed as teenagers in Osho communes. Their voice, as expressed in the documentary, is heard and recognised by us.
Four things stand out in the documentary and in the reporting on Osho in general:
• Osho’s vision of sexuality (‘sex guru’)
• The suggestion that this vision inevitably had to lead to sexual abuse
• The disparaging designation of the Osho movement as a ‘sect’
• The lack of the notion that the zeitgeist of the 1980s deviated drastically from what we consider to be desirable and normal today. It emerged from the sexual revolution of the 1960s.
We will discuss these points in more detail in the next part of this message.
Do you want to respond? Then contact the board of the Friends of Osho via info@vrienden-van-osho.nl .”
The programme ‘Generatie Bhagwan’ is the same as ‘Children of the Cult’, and the next part of the message is a four-page pdf document which goes into more depth.
USARAEL is bombing schools and hospitals; it seems the AI that identifies military targets makes mistakes.
The reason is that the broader a machine’s operational language, the greater the possibility of error.
In logical-mathematical terms, an error is a contradiction between the implicit order of input and output information.
From this, it could follow that those who use a limited language tend to be more coherent, achieving mathematical perfection in silence, like a crucifix or a statue of Ganesh.
The limits of the mathematical logical system are also the limits of the principle of cause and effect and, ultimately, of the possibility of being able to say something definitive and universal about reality, whether it concerns the private life of a guru or his spiritual legacy.
Perhaps, then, the performance criteria applied to a computer before throwing it in the trash do not apply to a human being, to ourselves and our Master.
On the contrary, a Master is as different as there is from a machine, capable of recognizing its own limitations at every point in its flow of thought, from analyzing reality to synthesizing an opinion on it, the first one who does not take what he says too seriously.
The suspicion is that this caution-humility is not due to a fear of contradicting himself, regarding the practical effects of what has been said, but rather to compassion for those people who have invested in those practical effects, desperately seeking guidance to do the right thing, the only condition for them, in that moment, of feeling worthy of love.
Like children, fresh from dreams, I approach Osho, who does not judge me as underperforming machine, speaking my own playful and error-filled language, about a colourful world without war, a child among children, vulnerable like us under an anonymous military target decided by the implacable judgment of an algorithm.
I can’t stop thinking and feeling about that school (Minab) of little Iranian girls fresh with dreams…while in Gaza, schools no longer exist, not even a colourful world.
https://ilsimplicissimus2.com/2026/03/08/lintelligenza-artificiale-perde-la-sua-prima-guerra/
Dear friends,
Over the last ten years I have done a lot of letting go: news, television, novels, computer games. Recently I was considering many of these things were distractions from the spiritual path, but perhaps they also lent my life a joyful quality, and these last years I found I was losing my joy in life. They haven’t been easy years, but many things that used to give me joy, are now appearing as merely neutral. Even my morning coffee is no longer the joy it once was.
The process of letting go eventually leads one to live a life that is lean and devoid of the juicier aspects of lay life. After all Osho says to celebrate, dance, be joyful. So it now appears to me that this automatic living in the spirit of letting go is also a danger on the path — I don’t have to live as a monastic, even though my inclination may be headed in that direction.
I find it interesting, that when I was focussed on Buddhism all these things disappeared from my life, and now I am finding my life is too lean, and I’m seeing the need to cherish and protect the things that give me joy. To bring back the spirit of wonder. It doesn’t mean I will go back to computer games, I think there are too many negatives to that, but I may broaden my reading somewhat, for starters.
Also I thought it useful to pay more attention to what gives me joy. One thing I noticed was that I feel more joyful when I am not thinking, like when I am focussed on my breath, or when I am riding my bicycle and am too engrossed in the feel of my tires on the path. When I’m busy being in the moment.
Reading this, NP, makes me wonder who it is that believes they are letting go. Letting go is all well and good, but what you are doing sounds like the spiritual ego at play. You conclude that you are busy being in the moment. Who exactly is it that is busy? It is all mind-fuck. You think too much. It sounds like you need to sit down on a bench, forget about this spiritual path you imagine yourself to be on and simply watch the river flow, or maybe just observe the passing clouds overhead.
Hi, Nityaprem, I’m not sure if the letting go of the things that used to bring you joy-wonder-fun was part of a discipline you wanted to follow or if letting go was due to your “being focused on Buddhism”, whatever that means.
NP, this is not letting go. This is suppression.
Nothing wrong with things like news or TV, it’s just a question of balance.
If things become “lean and devoid”, it’s a sign that one is on the wrong path. Life wants you juicy.
No woman in your life besides your mother?
I’m touched by your concern, I was merely observing my well-being.
Hi NP,
The masses are often wrong but then again when 3 commentators also express very much the same feedback to you, I’d say it’s worth asking yourself if they may have a point.
If you are to express yourself on this site, be prepared to explore what others say to you. To answer their questions. To be more open to suggestions others make of you
I’m more concerned that a lot of commentators here “shoot from the hip” with their comments, without living in my mind with my concerns, and I can’t explain it to them without losing a lot of privacy and using a lot of words.
I do take what you all say on board, otherwise why do it at all, but I do so through certain filters. The thing is also, there are questions I’m not prepared to answer, just as Satchit evades a lot of personal queries and Lokesh subtly changes the subject sometimes. I think that is reasonable.
NP writes, “A lot of commentators here “shoot from the hip” with their comments, without living in my mind with my concerns.”
Duh? How can anyone live in another person’s mind, or live in their concerns? It is impossible.
All people inhabit their personal dream, live in their own mind. They are in an entirely different world from the world you live in.
The only timeless time we share the same world is when we step out of the mind and its limitations and concerns.
A perfect illustration of my point, thank you, Lokesh. By inserting a period where there was a comma you have produced a “shot from the hip.”
Anyway, a chat with Claude.ai was interesting, it suggested that it was all an effect from grief over my father’s death…
Hi NP, that’s all very well, but I am no wiser as to what your point is. Brownie points? I’ve no idea.
As for my punctuation, standard procedure with nothing underhanded. Truth is, I have not a clue what you are referring to.
I know SD sometimes tidies up punctuation and grammar. Not guilty, your honour.
“shoot from the hip”
Yeah, this is part of the game.
Friends provoke each other.
Nobody becomes enlightened by being nice. Breathing in, breathing out.
But Satchit, I’m a nice guy…
We all know that you are a nice guy, NP.
But did you not want to find a deeper truth inside you?
It’s difficult to apprehend deeper truth, it tends to get stuck on the way to the mind’s comprehension.
The Tao that can be told is not the Tao.
Maybe that’s all the truth I’m going to get.
Hi Nityaprem,
I’ll try to explain what’s stopping me from welcoming a nice guy like you.
I think I’m closer to your age than your parents’; the fact that you’re often at the centre of forum controversy may not be due to alleged paternalism, although it can happen that sometimes someone could identify himself with authority figures and wants to have the last word.
More likely, you’ve decided to write on this forum, a community mostly of your parents’ age, with the mission of making the me-too movement’s point of view known through a reinterpretation of events from 45 years ago, even though you’re neither a woman nor a victim of male power.
Mission failed.
You could turn the page and do something else, but instead you continue to justify your good intentions and those of the community with which you committed to that mission, exposing yourself to judgment/criticism from both sides, which evidently apply different analytical criteria.
Your attempt to remain faithful to that community is honorable, but evidently there is a larger community held together by something deeper than a sense of victimhood.
You have chosen to place yourself between these two visions, with the added responsibility of being able to influence your parents’ inner vision; they are not indifferent to the outcome of your mission, even though for them it is a lose-lose situation, whether you succeed in proving that you grew up in a psycho-cult or fail at it.
I just came across a bundle of paper in my father’s things which turned out to be loose pages from a copy of ‘The Sound of Running Water’. They were from the front of the book, including the title page and the contents, and when I sat down and read them I found much of an early biography of Osho. Fascinating stuff.
Hi Nitya,
Would you please copy a certain photo from that book ‘Sound Of Running Water’?
It is very rare and nowhere else to be seen.
If you can find it please upload it here.
It shows Osho in a strange mood that we never saw before and it seems almost unthinkable.
There he is in deep pain and misery.
I only have some of the pages, and not the entire book, unfortunately. I’ve not found the photo you were referring to.
This book and the follow-up are kind of summing up the movement.
That miserable Osho with obvious pain never ever got reproduced as far as I know because it doesn’t fit with his serene image.
We only know that “dark night of the soul” photo from his stage before enlightenment.
“The Tao that can be told is not the Tao.”
Right. Truth cannot be understood by the mind.
But it can be sensed in the body with its easiness and cessation of thoughts.
I will let truth be, it is what it is. The whole spiritual search seems to be collapsing under its own weight — seeking is no longer happening. For a while now I have not felt the need. Instead what is left is a feeling of devotion and gratitude to the divine in nature: I greet the sunrise, I take a cold shower, I feel the solid ground under my bare feet, I give attention to my breath.
Time for this at last…
Niets te geven, niets te nemen
Het lied van lege woorden
https://www.samsarabooks.com/boeken/niets-te-geven-niets-te-nemen/
Hi, Veet Tom, do you think this Kraut could say something fascinating to the average sannyasin’s intellectual taste?
Is there a community around him that feels the need to live together to preserve the light of his presence? Or does everyone go back to their own beer after the talk?
What interesting things does the Master do after the talk?
Your question compares two different approaches.
Karl is not on the Guru Movement Trail.
Call it Advaita if you must.
But your guess is right, you picked the surrounding picture.
Satsang these days is getting rare.
If new and open you might go to Tiru to find any freewheleing topsitter, or just wait till he/she visits your city and their impulse reaches you.
Same as ever if you are really met.
So it is about you – or not.
Hi, Veet Tom,
This is the forum that explores the 50 Shades of Brown legacy left by the guru on his underwear. So it makes sense not to raise too many expectations for those looking for the perfect guru.
It’s better to start the rating by picking the surrounding aspects of the picture, with the same subject framed at different hormonal moments in his life.
The most popular questions here seem to concern the relationship between biochemistry and the self, particularly the biochemistry of pain and sex: prostaglandins, bradykinin, histamine, substance P, testosterone and estrogen for libido, dopamine for euphoria, and oxytocin/vasopressin for attachment…
The community experiment that grew up around Osho also allowed us to investigate the biochemistry of hunger and power, with its paradoxes (according to studies, power can paradoxically reduce the empathic and cognitive abilities that helped an individual obtain it, a phenomenon often studied in relation to the neurochemical alterations induced by command. AI).
In short, for me, the balance between the physical body and the spiritual body is a delicate one.
No matter how wise one may be, a hammer stump on the toe or a slip on an icy road can always threaten homeostasis, interfering with inner ecstasy.
When the ultimate existential/spiritual realization occurs (the dissolution of individual consciousness into the Whole), the physical body participates in the phenomenon; it does not disappear, along with its biochemical structures that are activated by hunger, cold, pleasure, pain, stress, danger…
Who is the wise one? The one who exposes himself to the risks of worldly life, or the one who protects hormonal homeostasis by living in a cave in Assisi or Tiruvannamalai?
Is it possible to fail by remaining silent and always in the exclusive company of one’s Self?
Is there a virtuous behaviour that does not reinforce the “reward circuit”, making us addicted to dopamine?
Are there non-virtuous behaviours to counteract/inhibit the dopamine addiction of sanctity?
Osho didn’t exactly live in a cave…
I read a lot of Advaita Vedanta a few years ago, especially Tony Parsons. There seemed to be a lot of emphasis on the language, there seemed to be a few tricks being used to push people around.
Is there more to it than that? I was thinking ‘satsang’ is a sharing of truth, it doesn’t only have to be not-two-ness.
“The whole spiritual search seems to be collapsing under its own weight”
Good. Sounds almost enlightened. lol
Almost enlightened…haha!
What else can we say from the valley of deep, experienced thoughts? Right on.
I received an invitation from the Dutch ‘Vrienden van Osho’ to write an article about their response to ‘Children of the Cult’, as I had written a piece about it earlier for SannyasNews. But I’ve decided not to go into great depth about it, limiting myself to just these notes.
Now, they originally wrote “there was no question of sexual assault or rape”, but they wrote from the understanding that these things have to include violence, which of course isn’t true. They later adjusted their message to sensibly remove this phrase. It seems to me that the pressure to sexualise that teenagers on the Ranch experienced was much more harmful than if they had just been left to their own devices.
Grooming is something that has been in the news in recent years, and I feel it is relevant to this discussion, because there was definitely a large group of swamis who took advantage of the teenage girls.
Anyway, I think the damage done to their lives by this was considerable, as the docu plainly shows. OIF should stop faffing about and make funds available for reparations.
Just this small part of Guru Rating Service has survived.
This phenomenon (often called Shaktipat) involves several neurological and psychological layers:
Biological Perspective
Pressure & Sensory Input: Physical pressure on the forehead (the location of the pineal gland and prefrontal cortex) can trigger a vagal response, instantly calming the nervous system.
Neurochemistry: The combination of deep meditation and intense expectation may stimulate the release of endorphins, serotonin, or even trace amounts of DMT, leading to euphoria or altered states of consciousness.
Brain Waves: The touch can act as a catalyst for a shift from Beta waves (alertness) to Gamma or Theta waves, which are associated with peak experiences and deep insight.
Psychological Mechanisms
Suggestibility & Placebo: The disciple’s total faith in the guru acts as a powerful psychological primer, making the brain highly receptive to a “breakthrough”.
Transference: Psychologically, the student projects their own inner power onto the guru, allowing the ego to “surrender” and release subconscious blockages.
Hypnotic Anchor: The physical touch serves as a sensory anchor that induces a sudden, deep trance state.
Would you like me to dive deeper into the specific role of the prefrontal cortex in mystical experiences? (says Gemini)
Two posts somehow got mixed here.
Of course that Gemini talk has nothing to do with Sarlo’s Guru Rating.
I just wanted to add a note that the well-known Dutch sannyasin Ojas has added a piece on the ‘Vrienden van Osho’ website, which I will translate here for you:
Ojas’s text
“I was surprised. But now it turned out that Maroesja had found some people who I think could tell very honestly what had happened to them and what that meant for their later lives.
Shocking. And they couldn’t talk to anyone about it.
As far as the latter is concerned, it is a good thing that they were now able to tell their story and that they were listened to, not only by Maroesja but worldwide. The film has already been shown and actually seen in many countries.
I know it from people who have been abused in the Catholic Church: getting recognition and being restored, that heals many wounds. Unfortunately, Sargam and others have now had to wait more than forty years for it.
Does this make my view of the years I spent with Osho different? Then I didn’t see anything like it, not in Poona 1, not in Rajneeshpuram or in the City of Rajneesh. That’s why this doesn’t appear in my booklet ‘Can a caged bird sing?’ In which I put my memories of that time on paper. Stupid and naive? Maybe. But I was doing other things at the time.
Does this make my experience with Osho different? When I went to Poona I knew I was going to immerse myself in an experiment where everything I experienced could be consciously experienced. Nothing would be squeezed away – something that had seriously suffocated my life in my previous monastic years. That would also mean that not only the wonderful of life but also the misery and pain would be seen in this experiment. I would face the monster in myself and in others. That has indeed happened and for me that has brought enormous resilience and a deeply experienced contact with the universal Consciousness and Love.
A risky experiment that has realised a real leap in consciousness for many of us. Unfortunately not for everyone. And we get more clarity about that in this documentary by Maroesja. Fortunately, this could also come to the surface. The truth must be told.
But that does not mean that the incidents that are now painfully visible in this documentary can just be declared as ‘general patterns of the entire sannyasin movement’. That’s pure sensation for the sale. Because it is known that the hidden algorithms of our internet love this. These algorithms know the ‘likes and dislikes’ of us humans and they know that a documentary that hurts, cultivates fear and anger, accuses others of sexual abuse etc. just does well in the market. That’s how we humans are.
To name a few things that have stuck with me from the newspaper articles about this documentary from NRC, Trouw and the VPRO guide:
• the sannyas movement is immediately called a ‘sect’.
• it is a movement of ‘enlightened parents – abused children’.
• ‘The children were collective property of the commune’.
• ‘What was done to me under the guise of love and light was outright rape’
• Bhagwan emerged as the Trump among the gurus…
Terrible. So I can continue about how people like to see the past now.
But there is also something coming up about the present that is totally false: the fact that in the media it is always said that at the moment ‘the responsible sannyasins love the stupid’, giving no response.
That’s not true at all. Perhaps they are not heard by the press, but the Vrienden Van Osho have done everything they can to give a real response through the resources they have (website, letters, contacts). Also internationally, in the Sannyas Wiki there are a lot of articles and honest research on this subject. The current press should also read this.
Looking back on Maroesja’s documentary, I can now only say what Johan Cruijff once noticed; ‘You only see it when you realise it.’ The documentary has again given a more extensive view of the sannyas movement of the 70s and 80s. Painful, but what really happened should not remain hidden. And Osho has taught us to deal with it ‘consciously and with attention’.”
I was talking to the AI chatbot Claude about animism, about how animist people think about the world, and it pointed me to some interesting resources.
First, Joanna Macy’s ‘The Work That Reconnects’, which is based around a book and a series of workshops that are intended to create community. They do things like dancing and eating together.
Second, Robin Wall Kimmerer’s book ‘Braiding Sweetgrass’, which has a number of stories in it about how humans participate in the life of plants. She is an indigenous author in the US.
Worth a look….
Hi, Nityaprem,
Are you looking for a human community to connect with? Don’t you feel inspired and loved by your imprinted community anymore?
For me, one criterion for defining a community in its essence is ethical: whether or not there is an authority that decides about good and evil.
If such an authority exists, then there will also be a discipline to help achieve the appropriate ethical model.
The limits of this model are the possible presence of a double standard: “You forget about the losses; you exaggerate the wins.”
Somewhat the opposite of the tantric-meditative, anti-authoritarian model of the old guy.
https://oshoworld.com/vigyan-bhairav-tantra-vol-1-02
I’m not really looking for a new community at the moment, thanks Veet Francesco. I’m caring for my mother and living with her in a little commune arrangement, visiting my aunts and seeing my cousins every so often, it’s a cozy extended family.
There have been a few deaths in my family circle recently – my father, my stepfather, two uncles, the husband of my youngest aunt, my eldest aunt – but the people who are left are happy in each other’s company.
Hi, NP, I also take care of Mom (85), although it would be fairer to say that she stubbornly continues to take care of me, like an Italian mother.
I’m sorry for your many recent losses.
Here too, it seems, there has been an increase in mortality, especially sudden deaths (cardiovascular diseases) and turbo cancer. Perhaps not as dramatic as your description might suggest; perhaps the difference in latitude affects the preservation of vaccine efficacy, I doubt that in Italy they have always respected cold chain logistics.
Meanwhile, Bill Gates seems to be shirking public engagements.
“I am doing something really revolutionary, radical – I am trying to make you happy. It may not be very obvious to you how it is concerned with the revolution of the society – it is. A happy person is beyond being oppressed, exploited, because a happy person needs no promises. A happy person is already happy so he is not worried about paradise or after-life. That is all nonsense A happy person is not worried about tomorrow; the morrow takes care of itself. Jesus says: Look at the lilies in the field. They don’t think of the morrow, they don’t toil, they don’t labour. They live an unworried existence. They are just there. But I say unto you that even Solomon attired in all his beautiful, valuable dresses was not so beautiful as these lily-flowers.
That’s what sannyas is all about. I would like you to become a lily, a flower, unconcerned about the future, unconcerned about the past. The past is no more and the future is not yet. Only the present is there. Bloom in it, be happy in it, rejoice in it, celebrate in it, and you bring a great revolution in the world – because you will be getting out of all the traps of the priests and the politicians.”
( Osho, ‘Sufis: People of the Path’ )
Nityaprem, don’t take Osho literally, you are not a flower, if you see people dressed in white arriving armed with syringes, don’t offer the other buttock, use your legs and enjoy your inner ecstasy in another place, if one still exists…otherwise do the politically right thing, assert your dignity as a free man, do not suffer the violent consequences of the politics of a passing Mark Rutte.
Hmm, yes. I’m not so far gone that I would lose the distinction between me and a flower, whatever Tony Parsons might say about “being one with the all”.
But there was an interesting question in ‘Sufis: People of the Path’ about a German ma who discovered that being happy was a decision you could make… that really trying to peer into the future and ruminating about the past were sources of unhappiness.
“I have heard about a great Sufi mystic who was always happy, always cheerful, always blissed out.
A disciple asked him, ‘Master, you always look so happy. I have been watching you for many years, in many situations. Day in, day out, for years I have observed you. All kinds of situations have passed, must have passed, but you always remain happy. What is your secret?”
The Master said, “There is no secret in it. Whatsoever situation confronts me, I always have the choice: to be happy or to be unhappy. And I always choose to be happy.’ ”
This is an illusion.
In the world of duality, if you choose happiness, you get also unhappiness.
Assembling IKEA furniture is a peculiarly joyful activity. There is just something satisfying about taking a kit of parts, seeing that each bit fits just so with the provided nuts and bolts, putting it all together and seeing it standing upright.
Even if it is just a simple bookcase.
A few days ago, I was distractedly listening to a documentary on TV while reading news on my computer about the war of Donald and his puppet master, the genocidal criminal Netanyahu. Then a word made me look up: Thallium.
The attempts by the Evil Empire’s foreign agency to kill Fidel Castro, the documentary said, were numerous and highly imaginative, some only hypothesized, such as placing the famous powder, which causes the beard and hair to fall off, in the dictator’s boots.
I wonder if, in light of what even the laziest and most conformist sannyasins are realizing about the most cynical and perverse aspects of the authorities (particularly the Zionist-led US one), there is still anyone who rules out the possibility that Osho might have been poisoned.
Yes, I too was watching some news this morning that intruded on my YouTube feed about the Iran war. Apparently the worlds oil and gas markets have taken a big capacity hit from damage to refineries in the Gulf states from Iranian missile and drone attacks, and engineers on the ground are saying it will take years to repair them. Which is not good news for petrol, oil and gas prices in countries around the world, and also prices of everything that depends on them.
Trump seems to have made a big mistake in starting a war with Iran, there is no easy path to finishing this conflict quickly it seems.
In my father’s books I have come across one called ‘One Hundred Tales for Ten Thousand Buddhas’ by Ma Dharm Jyoti, which really spoke to me. She was an Indian sannyasin, who first encountered Acharya Rajneesh (as he was called then) in 1968 during a Bombay lecture. I only read the introduction and the first tale, but something about this book made me emotional.
NP, the recent French investigations into the friendship between Ariane de Rothschild and Epstein demonstrate once again that geopolitics is in the hands of greedy and unscrupulous people, who use politicians who can be blackmailed.
You’re Dutch, you follow the money, and you’ll understand that in this war, and in almost all wars, the people gain nothing, be they Americans or Israelis.
While for the Iranians and Gazans, it’s about defending their lives in their homeland, with the only guilt being that no Rothschild bought it for them.
https://ilsimplicissimus2.com/2026/03/27/violato-il-tabernacolo-bancario-dei-rothschild/
Rothschild again…and Zionism…
mumbles VeetFrancesco.
This and more again are the words about hidden right-wing anti-semitism and conspiracy-seeking paranoia of former Sannyasins who lost (previous) insight into social and political topics.
But this doesn’t just happen in lost spiritual connections towards someone with enlightened clarity that cannot simply be borrowed or imagined, this happens with many people in all dying democratic societies – right now – at least when voting for right-wing parties and their stubborn Leaders.
I have already dropped all connections to those who fall for these pre-fascism beliefs. Many Sannyasins have filled the empty seat with this pseudo-sceptic bullshit. So why even respond?
Sannyas has died for so many, especially for those who just cling to dead dogmata and can’t recognize their poor substitute for truth. -
«Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.
“His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour»
Veet Tom, I didn’t suspect you respected biblical precepts, I don’t.
I agree with Osho: God has become poison for politically manipulated consciences; it’s better to flush him down the toilet.
But your idea that God’s chosen people must return to Palestine, otherwise the Messiah could never return to earth, has a certain appeal. You’ll finally be able to know if you deserved eternal life or if you’re done jerking off.
The other possibility is that you’re too lazy or too old to inform yourself, now guided in your judgments only by the sense of guilt of a German, for believing the bullshit written by a psychopath 100 years ago, a cultist of the Aryan race (not chosen by God) who loved to exterminate “blacks, fags, gypsies, deformed people, anarchists, agnostic anti-capitalists like me, and Jews.”
Your paranoid, pre-fascist friends, in charge today in Italy, who support Trump to the point of wanting to award him the Nobel Peace Prize, have passed a law that equates Zionism (even Christian Zionism?) with Semitism, so here you can no longer criticize the policies of Israel or the bankers who finance it without consequences.
In my opinion, my sannyasin friends in Israel cannot stand the criminal and racist policies of their current government. Your words do not help their plight, not even that of the victims in Gaza, the West Bank, and Iran.
In Israel, there is the same apartheid regime we saw in South Africa.
In my opinion, what is happening to the people of Gaza is a genocide, commissioned by the war criminal Netanyahu, supported by Jewish fundamentalists like Ben Gvir and Smotrich.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8_gjR0FUJsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evtMRyCWBo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cDIdkQyACc
You can call it a conspiracy theory, but it is becoming clearly visible that politicians don’t act out of their own volition, that often they act in the interest of third parties who fund their election campaigns. Follow the money, and the sources of blackmail.
The cries of anti-semitism ring rather hollow these days, after Louis Theroux’s expose on the settlers in Israel and their tactics for invading the West Bank and now Gaza. It seems that the Israeli propaganda machine’s weaponising of the term ‘anti-semitism’, especially in the USA, may at long last be turning against them.
It’s best not to pay too much attention to these things, once you start caring about what they say they have a way ‘in’ to manipulating you. Just keep clear vision, and don’t take things too seriously. Practise letting go.
Nityaprem, I haven’t seen Louis Theroux’s documentary, so I don’t know in what sense it might be manipulative… it’s clear that if the author isn’t driven by the critical spirit to provide an honest account of the facts observed, this would immediately stimulate my critical spirit.
I would ask myself, for example, if Louis Theroux had racial prejudices, what kind of cultural operation it would be to have a Nazi make a documentary on Israeli settlements, asking myself what contribution a journalist who flaunts (pretending?) to be afflicted by such a cognitive bias would make to the cause of an oppressed people.
In any case, I don’t need your manipulative-controversial sources to form an opinion on the damage God-dogma causes in the consciences of people, as in your case, possessed by the dogma of having grown up in a cult, like the one depicted in a documentary inspired by resentment aligned with the “me too” movement, and perhaps also with the related desire for compensation.
Why don’t you follow the money here and instead prefer to blame your parents?
Why do you continue to pay too much attention to a narrative that ends up manipulating you, losing your clear vision and becoming too serious?
Why don’t you advise your anti-cult friends to follow Ramana’s teachings and forget about sex?
Do you think Osho’s silvery aura changed while he was fucking?
Louis’ technique of making documentaries is to let his subjects speak for themselves, and only ask neutral questions, letting the viewer form his own opinion.
I’ve read about half the short book, and…hmmm…It is sweet, and carries that innocent Bhakti flavour of someone who committed heart and soul. It is a good reminder of what it was really like to sit in front of Osho.
It is described in the first few sections that Ma Dharm Jyoti also in her first meetings with Osho observed what I myself described as “a silvery light falling behind and around Osho, like the light of the full moon.” A glimpse of his aura perhaps.
The whole idea of the sannyasins as the Ten Thousand Buddhas also resonates with me. Osho himself said…
“You can become enlightened this very moment. Nobody is barring the-path, nothing is hindering you. But the problem is with you – that you want to become enlightened in the future. Even if I go on insisting that you can become enlightened right now, the question arises, ’Right now? How can it be possible? Give us a little time, we will have to prepare. We will have to get ready. We will have to do yoga asanas and Dynamic Meditation and Kundalini and things like that. Just give us a little time. How can we become enlightened just as we are?’
You are enlightened, that’s why I say you can become enlightened right now. You have never been unenlightened ever! You have always have been enlightened all along. You just don t recognise the fact.”
( Osho, ‘Sufis: People of the Path’ )
It is a key realisation, one of just a few that open the doors. Be non-serious, drop as much stuff as you want, but just remember, you *are* a Buddha.
I think sexuality is a personal choice… there have been spiritual teachers who have chosen not to be sexual, Ramana perhaps… and there have been those who have only talked about their sexuality when asked directly by the press, like Osho.
The fact that Osho discussed sexuality as a spiritual teaching and in many cases is known to have encouraged freer sexual contact amongst his sannyasins was in some ways healthy, you could see it as a kind of glow amongst the people.
But at the same time it wasn’t for everyone. Some sannyasins preferred to stay monogamous, and what happened to the teenage girls was tragic, as ‘Children of the Cult’ showed. The stories about Osho’s sexual contacts show he was not infallible in this area either.
It is an area where a lot of sensitivity is needed, because people attach importance to it. It’s always been a subject of gossip, who is sleeping with who. Perhaps that is why Osho chose to hide his sexual engagements.
An interesting short article covering what Ramana Maharshi said about sexuality…
https://selfrealization.blog/2020/06/06/ramana-maharshi-on-sexuality/
I came across this fragment of an interview of Adyashanti with Patrick Kicken during a visit to the Netherlands a few years ago, it mentions Osho so you might find it interesting…
https://youtu.be/g-oo35QbGIo
I’m sharing an article copied and translated from a Telegram account by Professor Zhok, describing the most hegemonic nation in the world (the same one that 45 years ago, with its power structures, infiltrated and poisoned the Osho movement):
“Today Trump announced:
1) that the US will withdraw in 2-3 weeks, even if Hormuz is not clear;
2) that the war with Iran is now won;
3) that Iran has asked him for a ceasefire (denied by the Iranian Foreign Minister);
4) that there has already been a regime change in Iran;
5) that the US is considering leaving NATO;
6) Faced with the threat of hitting American interests locally, just before the Amazon headquarters in Bahrain was bombed, he sneered, saying: ‘And what are they hitting us with? Air guns?”
Some might think that such a series of impulsive statements is an isolated bizarre occurrence.
After all, it’s April Fools’ Day, right?
A day of madness is forgiven for everyone, right?
But then comes this video where Paula White, president of the White House Office of Faith, conducts an exorcism session to banish evil spirits from the audience.
And one begins to understand in whose hands 5,000 nuclear warheads are available…”
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dQKOp3Fb2dE
Again, in the name of Jesus the Jewish, again in North America, dedicated to those who say that in Oregon Osho made the worst contribution to education because he was on drugs all day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsW8fgvhEPc
Dear friends,
This video is the start of a conversation about what makes a true Ayahuasca healer, between a genuine Shipibo Onanya, native to the Amazon, and Matthew Watherston, Western founder of the Temple of the Way of Light. So it might be worth watching if you’re interested in plant medicine and have encountered ‘gringo shamans’ in Western cities.
I found it interesting that the Maestro said at the very beginning that he doesn’t tell you how to see things, that he has his internal world and you have yours, which to me sounds like it might have come from the lips of a sage from the Indian subcontinent. At the most he hints and guides. It seems that wisdom takes the same forms everywhere.
https://youtu.be/FK0c9NMf9gE
Once again, NP finds something ‘interesting’, which means he is not fully engaged with the subject. You will never go beyond being interested in ayahuasca until you have actually tried it. No amount of book reading or videos will bring you close to a truly psychedelic experience, because it is an experience that is beyond words.
NP concludes, “The Maestro said at the very beginning that he doesn’t tell you how to see things, that he has his internal world and you have yours, which to me sounds like it might have come from the lips of a sage from the Indian subcontinent.”
Really, NP, you must be hanging out with the wrong kind of people to come to such a conclusion. Several of my friends could have said that.
It’s an interesting conversation around ‘gringo shamans’ and what makes a real shaman. The Temple of the Way of Light, who are producing these videos, are possibly the highest profile Ayahuasca centre in Peru. Although I can’t go, of course, because of my medication use.
Nice to see you too, Lokesh.
Cool, NP. An old friend of mine was at the centre of the Ayahuasca scene for several years in Ibiza. On occasion, a hundred people drank the brew together at their house. Various shamans from South America presided over proceedings, bringing canisters of the sacred brew. I never got involved, because of all the Christian aspects in the ceremonies, singing hymns etc. I am getting too old for extended psychedelic journeys. Too taxing on the ageing body. I was not part of that particular tribe. Those people were flying high. Some I knew quite well.
Time passed, and the cosmic dust settled. Most of the participants in the ceremonies remained pretty much who they had always been. I am not knocking it. Each to their own. I think meditation is the way to go. That said, I do take a psychedelic every now and zen. It helps blow away the cobwebs and is a good reminder of the atomic moment, where life is always happening.
A hundred people drinking Ayahuasca in one house, it begs the question whether they had enough toilets and bathrooms.
But also, there is the idea of psychic cross-contamination. A psychedelic does open you up, and who knows what you’ll pick up from the crowd?
It was a big house with extensive grounds.
Psychic cross-contamination? That can be viewed from multiple perspectives. Do you think hundreds of thousands of acid trippers were worried about psychic cross-contamination while attending the Woodstock Festival? No they were not because psychic cross-contamination was the whole idea. We are one etc.
It is well known that while high on DMT it is not a great idea to look directly into someone’s eyes whom you do not know well because if that person is in some way nego a transferance of nego energy can take place due to one’s openess. On the other hand, while super-high, it can be wonderful to look into a friend’s eyes.
Besides, human beings are programmed to survive. Our body /mind complex knows how to take care of itself. One might not be aware of what is happening but the subconscious is often hyper-vigilant in regards any form of potential threat.
My favourite Timothy Leary quote is the following:
“Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities – the political, the religious, the educational authorities – who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing-forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself, you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself.”
Learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself.
This must surely include being able to cope with most forms of psychic cross-contamination.
I have been in a situation where a psychic entity tried to take possession of a fellow tripper in a highly vulnerable state. It all worked out fine, and we learned something from the very strange experience.
It seems to me that, more than the falsehoods, the truly insidious thing is the small twists of the truth, as I’ve already read somewhere.
Mr. Timothy Leary, in a quote copied and pasted from Lokesh, after prefacing that human beings don’t know much about the chaos in which they live, other than that it’s the authorities (religious and political) who bring a bit of comfortable order, wisely invites us to question authority.
Then, however, he seems to describe the state of consciousness with which to do this (questioning), and it seems to me he’s describing a state of consciousness altered by lysergic acid.
So I’m perplexed.
I wonder, then, when is the time to question authority: during the trip or after the effect has worn off?
What remains in consciousness from the trip experience, just a state of vulnerable confusion?
I don’t think dealing with chaos by inducing confusion in oneself is an intelligent solution.
For me, adopting a confuse and vulnerable stance, when questioning authority seems a bit victimizing, leading authority, at most, to adopt a paternalistic attitude in its turn.
In reality, many other thinkers-philosophers-psychologists-mystics, before the seller of artificial dreams, had questioned authority, with less clouded minds; for me, those analyses should be the starting point.
What’s the point of questioning authority to conclude that there’s no need to change authority (maybe because political action requires a clear mind?), given that everything is one and therefore we are also the authority?
Who knows if the next trip will give me the answer? I wait, vulnerable and confused.
In my opinion, one of the dangers of this particular spiritual drug, synthetic or natural, is that it truly offers glimpses of a bright and joyful otherworld. However, it remains to be seen what happens when the body, with its perceptive system, recovers all or part of homeostasis.
Do you want to continue to make recreational use of those experiences, or do you want to change the conditions of your environment, managed by authority, to favor the natural occurrence of that experience of harmony and unity?
It seems to me that the recreational use of such drugs is mainstream today; authority figures can sleep soundly; the most political thing that can happen to them is to dream of an old hippie preaching Advaitism.
Unfortunately, today’s young people seem less grounded than in the past, in that reality that shaped the consciences of their peers 50 years ago: I’m referring to the formative aspects of family, school, and political and religious contexts.
Today, everything seems anesthetized by virtual reality, the place (Web) provided by authority figures, where they can amuse themselves by testing the quality and depth of how their power is being threatened (by such amoebas).
What seems to most motivate certain teenagers (even as young as 13, with knives in their pockets, in small gangs, ready to slit your throat if you don’t give them the cigarette they ask for) is to continue chasing in reality those adrenaline-filled sensations experienced on the internet, in front of violent video games or Bestgore channels.
Adrenaline…as a seventeen-year-old confessed, initially wanting only to break into a neighbour’s house at night, then experiencing the thrill of strangling, and finally experiencing the sublime by sexually abusing the corpse of a 98-year-old woman.
The perspective distortion of psychedelic ideology is so subtle and profound that such militants, to repel the feeling of their irrelevance compared to true authority (not the abstract one, but the one that holds the means that shape consciousness), whenever the opportunity arises, project the image of power onto anyone with even the slightest consideration to expose them, for example in matters of drugs.
This must be very bothersome to them; giving up that recreational aspect of existence means calling into question a large part of their life connected to it—experiences, friendships, creativity…
For some, we know well, who claim to have found in meditation an equally brilliant alternative to the use of lysergic substances, one way to remain consistent with their ideology and regain sufficient autonomy from those who had the power (and therefore the authority) to have given them something but taken something else away, is to feign a specious indulgence toward the “wise” ones, with respect to those things they like to see and recognize as their own recreational tendencies, so that after they could extend the same indulgence to themselves.
For me, the point is that there can be recreational activities connected to one’s ego and recreational experiences free from identifying dynamics, without any existential-ideological investment.
I believe that the children who grew up in Osho’s communes, before the movement was infiltrated by the same people who created LSD (for military purposes, interrogations, MK Ultra, and various horrors), experienced something profound and formative, receiving the grounding needed to understand that a life without love, joy, laughter, and celebration is meaningless.
When the effects of lysergic drugs (magic mushrooms) impact the lives of a young girl and two of her friends:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMAF9jsMD9k
“It is always a question for the seeker whether he is moving in the right direction or not. There is no security, no insurance, no guarantee. All the dimensions are open; how are you going to choose the right one?
These are the ways and the criteria of how one has to choose. If you move on any path, any methodology and it brings joy to you, more sensitivity, more watchfulness and gives a feeling of immense well-being – this is the only criterion that you are going on the right path. If you become more miserable, more angry, more egoist, more greedy, more lustful – those are the indications you are moving on a wrong path.
On the right path your blissfulness is going to grow more and more every day, and your experiences of beautiful feelings will become tremendously psychedelic, more colourful – coluors that you have never seen in the world, fragrances that you have never experienced in the world. Then you can walk on the path without any fear that you can go wrong.
These inner experiences will keep you always on the right path. Just remember that if they are growing, that means you are moving. Now you have only a few moments of thoughtlessness…It is not a simple attainment; it is a great achievement, because people in their whole lives know not even a single moment when there is no thought.”
( Osho, ‘Satyam Shivam Sunderam’ )
Veet Francesco said, “I believe that the children who grew up in Osho’s communes…received the grounding needed to understand that a life without love, joy, laughter and celebration is meaningless.”
I think you have spotted something. Many of the commune ex-kids are beautiful people — artists and musicians and psychologists. At least those who weren’t too badly damaged by the sexual shenanigans, which was a tragedy. But you don’t see them standing side by side… I heard that not so long ago there was a reunion of the Ko-Hsuan school kids in England, and some of them were saying their time there was the most beautiful years of their youth.
Nityaprem, if you recognize that in those years, the shared spiritual good in the orange world was antithetical to the abuse of power, in all its forms, then any events that contradict this should be considered exceptions, not the norm of a psycho-cult bent on sacrificing its offspring.
Supporting a victim of injustice, of any kind, does not mean encouraging their victimization through a public narrative aimed at unquestionable blaming of those labelled as perpetrators.
I believe this has nothing to do with the human support owed to a victim; rather, it is the exact opposite of what a private, painful, intimate, compassionate and conscious therapeutic process would require.
Only a rotten democracy like North America’s, which has infected all the other colonies of the empire, makes it possible to confuse the media process with the judicial one, where those labeled criminals must defend themselves from shitstorms before entering a court of law, with judges who cannot ignore the moral pressure of outraged citizens.
I don’t want to support such barbarity, even though I fully understand the cathartic function of it all and its political rationale, legitimizing the authorities who love this easy consensus by riding such indignation.
There’s nothing wrong with being outraged, when it’s not crowded with cameras searching for images for pre-written captions, written not by you.
No, Nityaprem, I don’t join the call to hang in the streets, by his balls, the alpha male, Osho. I don’t find it cathartic at all, but if it works for you, enjoy it, if it helps you heal.
These days I don’t say anything about Osho beyond that he was brilliant and not infallible. And I’ll let those who consider themselves damaged by the communes tell their own stories.
My story was that there were mostly good sides to spending some time in the communes as a teenage boy. I enjoyed the discourses, the freedom, the variety, the travel, the mix of cultures. I consider myself blessed in many ways.
Sexuality…at 13 I was shocked by the Ranch, and I felt myself pressured in this area. It left deep marks, was my sexual self welcome or not? I felt isolated from the girls my age, kept apart (which we were, the other boys and myself). It’s the area where I bear the most pain.
But be that as it may. My life has led me through a few twists and turns since, and a lot of the art of living is about knowing when to let go. Not taking things seriously.
Veet Francesco said, “I believe this has nothing to do with the human support owed to a victim; rather, it is the exact opposite of what a private, painful, intimate, compassionate and conscious therapeutic process would require.”
You’ve put your finger on the sore spot. A docu like ‘Children of the Cult’, with all the discussion in the public space that comes with it, is not an answer for these women. In a way it is a re-traumatisation, bringing out past hurts and pains into the media without offering a love that lasts.
It’s hard even to say that therapy offers healing, because the relationship with the therapist revolves around money. It’s a surrogate for friendship, a lover who understands.
Nityaprem, I don’t share your distrust toward the therapist profession, assuming it’s not an attempt to unleash the Bolshevik in me. (Btw, for me, the state should collectivize local resources and guarantee people a dignified life based on their merits and potential; the rest, including psychotherapy, should be left to the market).
You can do work with love and heart, while simultaneously placing a price on the material resources that work entails.
I’m not at all convinced that a girlfriend of mine would have explored and dissolved my internal blocks, as happened with the therapists I met in Osho’s world—the best money I’ve ever spent. Even when, in my latest groups, with my therapy process almost over, I experienced some projections or resistance (toward an inflated ego or a therapeutic model plagued by too many limitations and contradictions).
“But naturally, when the Ganges is in the Himalayas wandering in the mountains and in the valleys, it has no idea what the ocean is, cannot conceive of the existence of the ocean – but it is moving towards the ocean, because water has the intrinsic capacity of always finding the lowest place. And the oceans are the lowest place… so rivers are born on the peaks of the Himalayas and start moving immediately towards lower spaces, and finally they are bound to find the ocean.
Just the reverse is the process of meditation: it moves upwards to higher peaks, and the ultimate peak is no-mind. No-mind is a simple word, but it exactly means enlightenment, liberation, freedom from all bondage, experience of deathlessness and immortality.
Those are big words and I don’t want you to be frightened, so I use a simple word, no-mind. You know the mind… you can conceive of a state when this mind will be non-functioning. Once this mind is non-functioning, you become part of the mind of the cosmos, the universal mind. When you are part of the universal mind your individual mind functions as a beautiful servant. It has recognised the master, and it brings news from the universal mind to those who are still chained by the individual mind.
When I am speaking to you, it is in fact the universe using me. My words are not my words; they belong to the universal truth. That is their power, that is their charisma, that is their magic.”
( Osho, ‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’ )
Thank you, Nityaprem, for your timing in choosing Osho’s words.
These words are welcome, in these days when Zorba risks contemplating too many skeletons.
The no-mind put in relation to the universal mind is illuminating, so the correct dichotomy is not mind vs. no-mind but individual mind vs. universal mind (which evidently transcends the collective mind, made up of individual minds that resonate with each other and not with the mystery of existence).
I came across this Question and Answer…
“BELOVED OSHO,
CAN IT BE TRUE THAT SEX IS ALREADY OVER? I HAVE BEEN YOUR SANNYASIN FOR FOUR AND A HALF YEARS AND MY BODY IS THIRTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE. I NEVER PLANNED TO DROP SEX, BUT NOW IT FEELS LIKE IT HAS DROPPED ME. AM I A QUICKY OR WHAT?
Dhyan Satyama, the place you are in and the space you are in…four and a half years is really too long. You can understand by the laughter of the people. They are in the same boat.
If you meditate, sex is going to drop by itself.
Sex is part of your unconsciousness, and it is a blissful experience if it drops by itself. If you force it to drop, it never drops. On the contrary, it becomes perverted; it starts finding ways from the back door. Unless it drops by itself, it never drops.
Meditation is the secretmost method of going beyond the body and all that the body contains. Sex is part of your body, your biology, it is not part of your consciousness. The moment you start rising up in your consciousness, sex is left far behind. Naturally, at the age of thirty-one one starts wondering, “Something seems to have gone wrong…” Nothing has gone wrong, everything has gone right. You should feel blessed that you are free from the greatest imprisonment of your being.”
( Osho, ‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’ )
The whole answer is too long to reproduce, but I found it very interesting. Sex as part of the biology, an energy transformed by meditation, and that even children as young as seven in the case of Adi Shankara became sannyasins.
That’s wrong, sex does not drop.
The attachment to sex drops, that’s all.
Osho says, “Sex becomes perverted; it starts finding ways from the back door.”
Yes, Osho is approaching the subject from a truly existential level.
Osho continues, “The moment you start rising up in your consciousness, sex is left far behind.”
If that is the case, how come Osho did not leave sex behind?
Nityaprem, I was at the beach with a sannyasin friend of mine and asked him about the beautiful Swiss woman I sometimes saw with him.
He hadn’t been to Pune for a few years, seemed quite detached from the groups, and didn’t seem to show any gratitude for Osho. Only when questioned did he give tepid recognition to the Master’s role in introducing him to meditation — in short, a much less passionate approach than mine.
I liked her a lot, so within the code of conduct among Latino men, it was important to understand if there was a conflict of interest between us… so I asked.
His Swiss friend was just a friend to him, no sex.
He shared that he loved sleeping in her arms.
He wasn’t interested in sex anymore.
I think he’s 5-6 years older than me, so he’d have been around 45 y.o., which for me is premature for testosterone levels to decline.
What I love about him is his cheerfulness, playfulness, and the joy he expresses when he sings with his guitar, but the fact that sex had left him, or vice versa, made me think he was missing something pleasurable and healthy, even if there are no free lunches, in terms of relationship drama.
A naturopathic teacher of mine, after about 40 years of a vegan and mostly raw-food diet, shared that he went through a period in which he was deeply assailed by a craving for animal protein, giving in to it with great surprise.
I wonder if the human body can have such power, granting to the consciousness 40 years of dominion about food choices, only to then present the bill to the one who claims to be at the centre of consciousness, for an accumulation of failure to take care of its nutritional needs.
Urologists seem to recommend having sex with happy endings and not Tantra, with its stagnation of secretions that congest the prostate, exposing it to inflammation.
Here too, if the mind-consciousness-awareness somehow manages to existentially prioritise a certain use of energy, excluding the sexual circuit (with its glands, organs, and blood), is it possible that, as in the case of animal proteins, this creates an imbalance that accumulates consequences that will sooner or later explode in all their vitality?
As in the case of eating meat, the question remains: should these potential expressions of vitality, with the body demanding its share of the pie, be repressed or indulged-observed? But this is a rhetorical question for a sannyasin; it doesn’t seem to be the same for moralistic, embittered and resentful ex-sannyasins.
It’s possible that the body’s bill will become due at some point, seems quite possible. Certainly transforming the energy doesn’t seem as easy as Osho might have you believe.
It’s a pity we can’t ask him, Lokesh. By his own admission in ‘The Last Testament’ he was far from celibate and had sexual contact with many women.
In the end, we must figure things out for ourselves.
‘From Sex to Superconsciousness’ was a winning ticket for Osho in the guru stakes. Hardly surprising in a sexually repressed country like India. That said, many westerners had/have to come to terms with their own sexuality. Elvis the Pelvis got the show on the road, the hippies introduced the concept of free love, but the revolution was a long way from over. I found Osho very helpful with his take on sexuality…up to a point.
It seems for many that ageing will bring some sort of solution, or should I say dissolution, to the idea of transcending sex. All you have to do is act naturally.
You’re definitely right about that. During Poona 2 you could still be a disciple or a devotee and ask Osho for his guidance and insight into your condition. But these days they are all words on a page with only a semblance of life. Sometimes they come at the right moment, but often you have to be selective about how to apply them.
Buddha said, “Be a light unto yourself” and that’s exactly our task, showing ourselves the way forward. I still find Osho’s take on things occasionally illuminating, like the quote, “If you move on any path, any methodology and it brings joy to you, more sensitivity, more watchfulness and gives a feeling of immense well-being – this is the only criterion that you are going on the right path.” Those reminders help me not to get stuck in habitually picking at mental scabs and revisiting past wounds.
Sexual repression is still inherent in worldwide attitudes to nakedness and ‘covering up your shame’. In India you have naked sadhus but all video of them strategically leaves genitals covered…it is very possible that primitive mankind’s sexual style was much more like the Bonobo ape, who have a big orgy when they find a ripe banana tree. Growing up in the commune definitely left you with your share of sexual traumas, and didn’t automatically take you to a ‘natural sexuality’, whatever Osho said.
NP delivers an Osho quote that concludes, “If you move on any path, any methodology and it brings joy to you, more sensitivity, more watchfulness and gives a feeling of immense well-being – this is the only criterion that you are going on the right path.”
It sounds simple, yet I do not wholly agree that these are the only criteria that indicate you are moving in a positive direction. We are complex beings with multiple aspects in our lives. Perhaps, quite importantly, is the state of our relationships with the people around us. Simply being blissful and so forth might not cut the mustard in that department, and human qualities like trust, communication and affection are needed, not just feeling blissed out and being a watcher. Of course, those elements might promote such qualities as trust, etc., but not always. In the past, Sannyasins earned a reputation for being selfish and aloof, and being up themselves socially, a sure indication of an imbalance at play.
It seems to me that it’s useful to remember here that what should hold together a group of authentic seekers is the pain of a lack of love, or the pain of a love we can’t share, directed at those we would like to heal-save.
This doesn’t prevent the phenomenon of spiritual tourism by some egocentric people.
As much as we are “complex beings with multiple aspects in our lives” (Lokesh), there are still some things that bring us back to universal traits of our humanity, made up mostly of…human relationships.
Can we contradict our human nature? Of course we can, I speak from experience. If so, would this be a desirable outcome? Perhaps at some point it was right this way, taking care of myself without being watchful enough, neglecting the needs of others.
The sensitivity needed to heal myself, once the process was complete — that is, once I had experienced how joyful and celebratory life can be — remained with me, but no longer directed solely at myself, accepting the risk that that state of joy could be swept away, sucked away by the first glance of a human being pervaded by tragedy or dramatic despair.
This is why it seems to me that my joy is connected to the transcendent nature of human beings who, however, choose not to transcend the pain of others, applying selective sensitivity and watchfulness.
Yes, joy seems to me to be a good criterion for orienting myself.
Once again, upon further investigation, Osho confirms himself as the Master of Masters, Yahooo!
I’ve experienced several year-long stretches of being creatively shut down over the past ten years, surely that was not a good sign?
These kinds of things lifting and feeling more creative, joyous, buoyant… those seem to be signs of things moving in a good direction.
I agree with you, connection and relationship are also important, but they just need to be present, they don’t need to increase.
I just wanted to pass on to you the second instalment of Maestro Jose Lopez Sanchez’s interview covering authentic Amazonian shamanism. Here he talks about the limits of shamans who have had short trainings, the effects of mixing multiple psychedelic plants, adding substitute ceremonies such as for Kambo or Rapé, lots of interesting detail.
https://youtu.be/Q5OPW8TEALY
In this video, Yuval Harari poses as a meditator, then in his spare time takes money from Klaus Schwab to talk about the transhuman predisposition of humans.
Klaus S. is the boss of the globalist powerhouse (WEF, the club of multinationals), where they decide how ordinary people like us should live, what we should eat and what we should own to live happily.
Y. Harari seems to have applied the things he learned through meditation; for him, rejecting reality is suffering, so in a context of assholes who want to manipulate billions of humans, he provides the correct anthropological framework: humans are hackable (causing widespread erections in Silicon Valley).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3OlzK0rc48
Too much old stuff coming up here…for me.
And little and such few newer News…
Osho words repeated again and again and misused children endlessly…
Wake Up call for today Now?
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1792rRnco7/
Veet Tom, I really enjoy being surprised, challenged and enlightened by Osho’s words, which is why I come to this forum (thanks to those who manage it and to those who created it!).
Then I like to share with the Sangha what I’ve absorbed, what becomes part of my consciousness. Even if it’s a passage from Osho that I remember, it doesn’t mean it won’t come to me with a new light, with nuances I hadn’t seen before.
In the interview with Harari (linked above), he also talks about an information diet, that is, calibrating the amount of information to ingest based on each person’s capacity to assimilate, that is, process it.
Now, I ask you, has your television broken?
Do you think you’ve assimilated everything Osho expressed in words?
Is there nothing in his words that resonates with you anymore?
Or maybe you’re a bit of a bulimic with a need to vomit every now and then?
Bullshit.
The sannyas internet isn’t full of news, that’s true, but perhaps you might like to try Historias con Osho, if you want to hear new interviews with sannyasins? See here…
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJkn4-2hK_FAqrq1dP7JeL7_4wfodZIZA
And about the misuse of the kids, I don’t think it has to be a valley of tears. All of us have to find our own path to joy, peace and celebration, and for many that involves some therapy. Perhaps it is swings and roundabouts, and there is no way to miss acquiring a few dings on your way out of childhood?
Maybe it’s time to ask yourself, what made you happy (or unhappy) today?
Thanks, Nityaprem, how do you find all these interesting sites? So many friends…
It must be the search engine algorithms, which vary depending on the country.
I saw a while back that Historias com Osho had a few little articles on OshoNews, the rest is just my ‘little grey cells’ doing their job, to borrow a phrase from Hercule Poirot.
After the LoveOsho podcast entries moved to the SannyasWiki and were no longer accessible through the Apple Podcast app, the Brazilian duo picked up the slack….
You did not open that “news” link
so your comment is just empty.
Just talk to Frances….
I like it when you get angry, Veet Tom, you look alive.
By the way, I don’t have Facebook and I couldn’t care less about public money being wasted in outer space.
It’s the impact of the Earthrise photo from the sixties all over again, isn’t it, VeetTom? In a way that was a salutary moment in human history, to realise that Earth was all one and covered with just a thin layer of habitable environment, that nations were not as important as we had thought. Now we are sending men to the moon again in the internet age, trying to learn the lesson of being more human to men everywhere.
I was watching a few of the clips on YouTube showing off the photos from the Artemis II mission, and I think just for the photos the mission has been worth every penny spent on it.
I don’t know, Nityaprem, if Veet Tom found anything nostalgic in the video he shared. I know it’s gone viral on Telegram because as soon as this female astronaut lost her earpiece, she didn’t know what the hell to say.
The prevailing interpretation of this little episode supports the thesis that the US, through NASA missions, wants to sell the idea of technological supremacy for the increasingly fearsome geopolitical contenders, so communication is also a fundamental part of this attempt at hegemony.
Regarding the romantic idea that the world is a homogeneous whole that can exist without nation states, applying the Advaita approach (whose popularity these days “oddly” coincides with globalism) to geopolitics, this is disproved by the facts, since (democratic) national politics is a discipline that ideally allocates resources based on the economic-social-safety needs of citizens on their territory.
Are you so sure that the interests of a wealthy elite ruling a globalized world coincide with yours or with those of the majority of the world’s population?
Increasingly xenophobic parties are emerging in Europe as a reaction to romantic ideas like yours, encouraged by financial speculators like Soros and his foundations.
Without a minimum of cultural homogeneity, there can be no primacy of democratic politics. Between a working citizen and an illegal immigrant trying to survive by working for the local mafia, we need emergency laws, the same ones as the pandemic. Ask yourself who benefits from such chaos.
Also look at what’s happening in this Forum, regarding how difficult it is to find a common language, a consequence of different cultures, experiences and biographies.
The desire to realize the universal mind should not lead to ignoring the collective mind; to avoid falling into this trap, we need the individual mind.
And to think that all of that comes forth from a simple idea like ‘private property’. In very primitive cultures the idea doesn’t even arise…it’s only with agriculture and the protecting of one’s surplus that people get interested in having and holding.
More than private property, Nityaprem, it is the absurd idea of the limitless accumulation of a few that forces the many into a primitive life…a bit like the same theme with sex, one can be compulsive or detached, use sex or be used by it.
I recall my father’s path to Osho. It started with P.D. Ouspensky’s book ‘In Search of the Miraculous’ about his time with George Gurdjieff, really, which planted the seed in his mind about learning from a master.
But once he found Osho there was no stopping him, he dropped what was left of his academic career, and just wanted to be with him. I don’t think he ever cared about politics, wealth or power in the world.
Similarly I only ever cared about having ‘enough’ to buy a few books, live modestly, and have a computer. My archive on disk of Osho books as pdfs is one of my few luxuries. To live a spiritual life is more worthwhile I think than to understand Machiavelli’s ‘The Prince’ or the Epstein Files.
So you can say that bar a few romantic ideas about democracy I have turned my back on the collective mind. As Osho says, priests and politicians are the maffia of the soul. And conspiracy theories are politics by the back door.
Perfect, NP, we have the same idea of luxury, but then I leave the house and meet people forced by priests and politicians to live a miserable life, while you prefer to read all day on the porch.
Can I not share your romantic ideas about Zorba’s world?
I also remind you (after VT) that if there are those who plot against humanity (such as mass vaccinations, exporting democracy, financing Hamas to justify genocide, etc.), conspiracy is no longer a theory but an ancient and widespread practice for the purpose of preserving and attaining power.
The question you raise is interesting, the same as Max Stirner’s: Why should you have a “cause” other than your own gratification?
It seems this kept Marx awake at night trying to solve it.
“And from all these illustrious examples (God, Humanity, a Sultan) don’t you want to learn that the
best path is that of the egoist? I, for my part, treasure
these lessons, and rather than selflessly serve
those great egoists, I want to be the egoist myself.
God and humanity have placed their cause only in themselves.
And therefore I also want to place my cause in myself,
I, who, like God, am nothing to everything else, and for myself
am my all, the only one.
If God and humanity are rich enough to be everything to themselves,
I feel that I lack even less and that I will not be able to
complain of my “vanity.” I am not the nothingness of the void,
but the creative nothingness, the nothingness from which I myself create everything.
So far from me any cause that is not properly and
entirely mine! You think that Must my cause be
at least the “good cause”? How good, how bad!
I am my own cause, and I am neither good nor
bad. All this makes no sense to me.
The divine belongs to God, the human to “man.” My cause
is neither divine nor human, it is not truth, nor goodness, nor justice,
nor freedom, but solely what is mine; and it is not a
universal cause, but unique, as I am unique.
Nothing is dearer to me than myself.”
(Excerpt from the introduction to ‘Der Einzige und sein Eigentum’: “I have placed my desires in nothingness.”)
Nityaprem, do you think that if Osho had learned Stirner’s lesson he would have dedicated himself to the evolutionary cause of humanity, knowing that there are Dutch people already quite evolved like you who know (by culture) how to cultivate their own cause?
I ask it with the eyes of a one-hit wonder philosopher with solipsistic tendencies, who then preferred to start a milk business by investing—and squandering—his wife’s money….
I think to have a cause at all places your purpose at one remove from just being. I’m not really a philosopher, I don’t have the kind of brain for it, I’m more a poet who sees into strange places.
To be natural, relaxed, like a hollow reed on which the divine wind is playing, that is enough for me. I don’t feel the need to solve the world’s problems.
It is just the mind, picking at unsolved problems and wanting to give everything a place, so that it feels that the world is under control and safely ‘known’. That there is a solution for everything.
As soon as you start thinking in terms of economy and systems, you fail to breathe with real freedom. Your thinking becomes constrained, you descend into detail…my advice is, just let it go and breathe.
“Nothing grows on diamonds, flowers grow on manure.” (Faber)
NP, for me, poets are among humanity’s most beautiful flowers. If you possess that fragrance, it’s a good thing you cultivate it and share it. I owe this to you as a gardener.
But I didn’t ask you to solve the world’s problems. If necessary, I ask you not to aggravate them, with your very relative political weight as a citizen (voter or not), by making “romantic choices.”
I’m not a philosopher either, although I try to apply a formal and ontological discipline to the things I say. But this isn’t love for the discipline itself, but for the person with whom I’m trying to communicate.
The enigma of Max Stirner (me, separated from collective destiny-action) kept Karl Marx (not me) awake at night, because in addition to being an economist, he was also a philosopher, and he couldn’t free himself from his “categories” (humanity, bourgeoisie, proletariat, capital) through which he viewed reality.
Neither Stirner nor Marx seems to have given an existentially valid perspective to Zorba, whether he walked alone or with others, pessimistic or trusting, stealing the egg alone or raising the chicken with others.
Here and Now, their Zorba, contemplating the chicken, like the chicken, does not fly.
But both philosophers are important in their honest and thorough attempts to give Zorba his rightful place in the market, with the right posture, criminal or industrious.
From everything I’ve said, you can deduce that I’m not a politician caged in a particular ideological or philosophical system, but rather a rebel who doesn’t want to suffer the criminal choices of those who are implicitly Stirnerian, like the elite in power today (well-known financial families, and toy soldiers like Musk, Thiel, Gates, Epstein, Zampolli, etc.). They, if in positions of power, have a mania for control, not me.
I’m not sure it’s always true that “power wears out those who don’t have it.” Giulio Andreotti, the eternal Italian politician, said it before you.
I’m not waiting for the revolution to break out to enjoy life. I’m not an orthodox Marxist, although I share some key concepts, which are useful for understanding what’s happening beyond the garden.
I just finished one of my periodic therapeutic fasts (21 days). I think that if I didn’t have some familiarity with the importance of breathing, I wouldn’t have lasted the time it takes your stomach to combine a hagelslag with a Stamppot.
I’m glad you’re not waiting for the revolution. I had to educate myself a little to follow you, but I do appreciate your perspective as a rebel.
In a way, the old tribal ways were that the family would come together at meal times and would share the food. That sharing is the root of collectivism. The hyper-individualism of liberal markets is an aberration driven by bankers’ hoarding.
What we have to cope with is the fallout of many years of private equity. At the moment we are seeing private money extending its sphere of influence beyond the stock market into areas such as home ownership, seeking returns on investment. The danger is that driven by cheap bailout lending by central banks, investment firms end up owning everything and will look to make the maximum return.
The result is a world where everyone is expected to work, everything has a price, everything is owned and rented according to what price the market will bear.
What is to live a spiritual life? Osho says it is to live in joy, creativity, dance and celebration, to drop the past and the future both. That means to no longer get lost in the mind — to ignore its tendency to bring up what happened yesterday or speculate about what will happen tomorrow.
I think there is something to it of balance as well, the Buddhist middle way. You can’t ignore the practical altogether, while you feel joyful and dance and celebrate. Osho would often say, trust in existence. To that I would add “but remember where you put your slippers by the entrance.”
There is something total to Osho’s definition as well, a wild abandon as you whirl in dance in Buddha Hall. I remember seeing a girl dance once in maroon robes, she was whirling and totally un-selfconscious. I think everyone should have such moments of totality, of being totally lost in the dance and in doing, because in these moments we are renewed.
If you are the doer, then you miss it.
And only ‘shoulds’ remain.
The example I like to use is bicycling, if it’s nice weather and you are going through the park with a bit of speed you can get so caught up in just bicycling that you forget everything else.
I see your no-mind is dependent on speed.
The more speed, the more no-mind.
Can also be an old habit.
What’s with the lazy ones?
No way to become enlightened for them?
Thank you, NP, for appreciating my “perspective as a rebel,” though I’m a little surprised that this recognition comes from someone who was in physical contact with a misfit Master like Osho.
It would seem natural to me that you might have absorbed more of his rebellious spirit than I, who was content with spiritual communion through the sound of his voice, the poetry of his words, the hugs and smiles with his disciples…but you’re not alone; in fact, quite the opposite. I’m almost the exception here, perhaps even the only one who hasn’t been vaccinated against critical thinking like a sheep.
“A rebel is always a rebel. It does not matter who has the power, he is always against people having power; his whole philosophy is decentralization of power. Power should not be centralized in a few hands, either political or economic or religious. It should be decentralized. It should be given to everybody – to every individual, his own power. Nobody should be in possession of somebody else’s power.”
https://rumble.com/v3ydx1p-osho-the-new-dawn-01-life-is-such-a-puzzling-affair.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp_v
Thanks for the link to the Rumble account, I enjoyed watching and have tucked it away for future visits!
You’re welcome, Nityaprem!
If I remember correctly, we owe Swami Shanti a debt of gratitude for that link, and for many others he has punctually shared on this forum over the years.
Ideally, in his absence (temporary or otherwise), I humbly try to keep his torch burning, also held by a few other commentators.
I believe the forum has been shrouded in the mists of cosmic pessimism for many years.
Perhaps the cultural reference that seems least approximate to me (as a non-philosopher) is that of the Schopenhauerian spirit: we (the human race) are driven by the will of a brutal-cynical nature that we cannot control, reduced to imagining a reality that we actually project outward (representation), reality already ordered by a mind that in turn is structured by three a priori categories (a continuation of Kant): time, space, and causality.
From this follows, philosophically and existentially (and ultimately shaping the atmosphere that dominated the debate on Sannyasnews), a fracture in such representation between subject and object (phenomenon and noumenon, what appears vs. what is) that cannot be healed…according to poor orphan Arthur, perhaps only art or some form of asceticism can alleviate the pain of such a vulnerable condition…giving in as little as possible to the illusory temptation of being able to be happy, given our condition of lack of autonomy and free will.
For me, those who have challenged the fog of cosmic pessimism that enveloped this forum are no less aware than those who fuel it with their cynicism about the fact that we are vulnerable and exposed to all human disasters and geophysical cataclysms; that’s not the difference.
The difference is witnessing that human nature is potentially not only a device for creating and understanding phenomena (epistemology: hence all the struggles about “you stupid idiot, you don’t understand a thing!”) but also a device capable of increasingly observing phenomena from within (Vipassana), as they unfold, and even moments before…that space, for me, is my essence, what is (noumenon)…that homecoming is joy, it must be shared, otherwise the burden of compassion would be unbearable.
The gratitude I feel toward Osho is for having encouraged me to use my mind to its fullest extent, thus opening myself to ontological responsibility of doing without the known, as a creator of reality.
In the case of a forum, the building blocks are words.
I think you are right when you say that the forum has been shrouded in cosmic pessimism. Very poetic of you! It’s as if a veil has been drawn over the spirit of sannyas, which to me has always seemed to be about joy and celebration. And good Italian coffee.
SN shrouded in cosmic pessimism? I do not view the situation on this forum like that at all.
What has changed over the years is that all of the good commentators have left. Once upon a time, the site hosted a lot of humour, insights, hot gossip, original views and big laughs. That has all disappeared. Leaving a few writers who rarely even raise a smile with their comments. Bring back Anand Yogi. Shantam was also good for a laugh. Now it is usually people’s mind trips you read about, or those poor in their fifties adults who were abused on the communes as children. Really, man, how much of that crap does one need to read? It’s dead…history, hardly.
As for myself, I pop in from time to time to view the latest comments on SN, and am sorry to say it usually amounts to nothing more than mind trips.
Where SD finds the patience to wade through some of that verbose shite, correcting punctuation etc., is a mystery to me. A labour of love perhaps. I mean to say, some dickheads think the nonsense they write is so important that they feel they have to post it on caravanserai and the current thread…as if it is hot news. For whom, one has to ask. And then small details have to be changed via the MOD, as if anyone gives a fuck.
So hats off to SD for the time he puts in. And that is about the extent of it. A once boisterous and fun site has turned into a dead zone. Nobody’s fault. Just the way it is. Maybe things will pick up again, but the hour is getting late and I am sure SD’s patience is not infinite.
“ontological responsibility”
Have you studied philosophy, Veet?
Or perhaps good Indian chai…I don’t recall the communes being great on coffee, that may be a personal liking.
But then coffee has come a long way since Starbucks started taking over the world.
@Lokesh…
Don’t you think you had to have a pretty thick skin to be on SN? I don’t see it as you do, as some lost golden age.
Yes, Lokesh clings to the past.
Times they are a-changing.
Better be here now!
https://youtu.be/90WD_ats6eE?si=-jkabcCeUukvK1Xy
“Individuality has a dignity…But man has been taken away from his individuality by a simple device. Put the individual in conflict – and you know the ancient proverb: a house divided cannot stand for long.
You are continuously fighting with yourself because you have been given such stupid ideas about yourself: you have to choose between either your nature, your relaxedness with nature, or thousands of years of conditioning – and conditionings go deeper and deeper every day. Pleasure has been condemned, non-seriousness has been condemned, playfulness has been condemned. The whole of humanity has been turned into utter seriousness, and seriousness is a psychological sickness. It can seep deeper and can make even your soul sick.
There is nothing to be serious about in the world.
There are only three things that happen in your life. One has already happened, and you could not do anything about it – your birth. Another is death; again, although it has not happened yet, you cannot do anything about it. So drop these two things completely, they are beyond your grasp. Between these two remains life, love, rejoicing.”
(Osho, ‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’)
That great flower child Donald opens up to the therapeutic use of LSD.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-signs-order-to-speed-review-of-psychedelics
That is a good thing. Still a long way to go, but it’s a step in the right direction.
Thank you, Nityaprem, now I’d ideally and gladly have a coffee with you, perhaps in one of those seaside cafes in Egmond-aan-Zee.
For me, that was mostly a place of solitary and melancholic walks, for a heart full of unspoken words and unsung songs. Those were the days of anger, in my ears, in my throat, a useful experience, once in a lifetime.
Seaside cafes also have vastly improved their coffee offerings, the better ones these days have Segafredo, Illy or Lavazza beans and a good espresso machine.
I vaguely recall visiting the Humaniversity once, a long time ago in the late 1980s, although I’ve been to Egmond-aan-Zee more recently to go to a museum. My memory is not very good nowadays.
My father had a favourite walk in that area, he would go with the train to Castricum, and walk through the dunes and the forest to Egmond. It would take him about three and a half hours, it was about 16 km, good for most of a day with travel time. The sort of thing you do when you are retired.
I used to live by the beach in a place south of Egmond, and I remember the beach walks well. I found them very healing, a lot of the time, although I came to pay attention to my mood, when I was in a darker state of mind it wasn’t always good for me.
Satchit, do you mean, did I do it in school, following a teaching method? I think I’ve already answered this question, and it’s a no.
Regarding the ability to handle the philosophy implicit in language and in the existential vision of which language is an expression, I believe it’s impossible not to be a bit of a philosopher each of us.
By “ontological responsibility” (before answering you, I Googled it to see possible meanings beyond the one I have in mind, and in fact this expression refers to the thought of a philosopher and student of Heidegger, Hans Jonas, who contrasts the ethics of intentionality with that of responsibility, where the agent of this responsibility is being itself) I meant the opposite of what is meant in philosophy by “I think, therefore I am” (in Latin cogito, ergo sum), where rationality is the human essence, proof of the subject’s existence.
Indeed, I wrote that only when thought is pushed to the limits of its own self-investigation is it possible to intuit that something unexpected might exist, beyond the known, there i found my cause, the foundation of my existence, love.
After flushing God down the toilet, the question remains: “Who am I?”, with its possible variations, consequences, and perspectives (the meaning of what I do and why I do it); it means assuming an ontological responsibility, recognizing that a life without foundation would not be worth living.
This is the essence of my religion, expressed in the only non-contradictory verbal form I know: philosophy.
I have gone so far as to speak in this way, I repeat, not because I am a technician of “well-formulated thought” who loves to show off his dialectical skills, but because I believe it is inevitable that each of us is the custodian of a culture whose fabric is made of values held together by a philosophy; without philosophy, the system of values collapses.
This is, imv, exactly what we are experiencing globally at the beginning of this third millennium (postmodernism), and with the looming threat of nuclear war: the rise of the criminal individualism dreamed of by Max Stirner, a cynical sentiment inherited from Schopenhauer’s cosmic pessimism.
One cannot pretend that a climate of playful brotherhood-sisterhood reigns only in this forum, and the effects of that social and anthropological dissolution are not felt.
Perhaps someone would like to exorcise all this with a few sneers on the same humorous theme, the village idiot, which for the two historic SN bullies almost always coincided with someone who harbored a sincere feeling of gratitude for Osho, that is, someone who for the two bullies was a fake Master, little more than a naive Indian on a school trip, dazzled by American colourful goods, suddenly suffering from compulsive shopping and a “fucking mood.”
Now the last remaining bully seems to no longer find this forum funny; I had to get serious to explain why. I don’t expect his gratitude, but it’s pathetic that Lokesh complains about the weeds he sowed.
Veet says:
“After flushing God down the toilet, the question remains: “Who am I?”, with its possible variations, consequences and perspectives (the meaning of what I do and why I do it); it means assuming an ontological responsibility, recognizing that a life without foundation would not be worth living.”
Jesus says:
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.”
Rock of faith vs. rock of love.
It doesn’t seem to me, Satchit, that Jesus threw the harsh god of the Jews down the toilet. Quite the opposite, he died to do his will. But the Jews didn’t agree.
Their faith was then, as it is today, rock-solid. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be able to contradict their humanity as the Zionist fundamentalists have been doing to the Palestinians for 100 years.
You interpret the picture wrongly with your political mind, Veet.
A political mind is a house built on sand.
Satchit, then next time try writing an extra line, so as not to stress my hermeneutic capacity.
Is there a non-political mind that isn’t built on sand?
This you have to find out for yourself, Veet.
No borrowed wisdom will help.
It’s called ‘The Search’.
Satchit, there’s an Italian expression for someone who is capable of deeply knowing someone else, capable of: “counting the hairs on his ass.”
This isn’t a pursuit I’m passionate about, especially with a private person like you. I can only hope you’re a hairless woman and there’s nothing to count.
However, if you have anything to share about your borrowed wisdom about Jesus, I’d be happy to read it.
Regarding your renegade Jewish hero, I don’t even know if you’d agree with a recent lecture on moral philosophy by Professor Zhok, where he discusses theological formalism, the cult of belonging, and the external rituals of the Jewish religion, which, with Jesus, were subordinated to the feeling of pity toward human beings (the horizontal dimension of pity vs. the vertical dimension of the feeling directed toward God).
This (imv) implicitly condemns the dark ages dominated by the doctrinal fanaticism of the Holy Inquisition, perhaps still lurking in certain Catholic circles—the same hypocrisy that the Professor sees here, inspired by the same doctrinal faith, at work among that band of war criminals in Tel Aviv:
“Four days ago, Haaretz, Israel’s only opposition newspaper, published an article titled “I Felt I Was a Monster” (April 17, 2026). The article begins with the presentation of a psychologically tormented Israeli soldier who claims to fear revenge above all else. Throughout the article, testimonies and documents recall some events that occurred during the demolition of the Gaza Strip (a drop in the ocean of what is known, but still).
It speaks of soldiers urinating on a bound and blindfolded detainee, laughing and joking. It speaks of interrogations where detainees are tortured by tightening plastic ties around their genitals. It speaks of an officer executing a Palestinian. An unarmed man who surrendered with his hands up, then covered up the incident by making it appear he was an “armed terrorist.” It describes a tank shooting and killing five Palestinian civilians crossing a line, followed by a D9 bulldozer burying the bodies in the sand. It details countless cases of IDF soldiers opening fire on unarmed civilians, including those scavenging for food during the famine caused by the Israeli government’s blockade. It details the looting of Palestinian homes, burning interiors, and urinating on the personal belongings of evicted families, for collective amusement.
The underlying thesis of the article is that Israeli soldiers are suffering severe trauma from what they have done or what they have seen their comrades do.
Two observations seem appropriate.
The first must begin with the observation that the atrocities recalled in the article are only a small part, and not the most revolting, of what the Israeli army has done. (Not I understand there are precedents elsewhere in the world of rape and torture of prisoners, confirmed by footage released to the international public, and followed by a court acquittal of the torturers.) That said, however, the events recalled in Haaretz are part of a repertoire that strikingly mirrors some of the most abject moments of Nazi-fascism.
And the only way Haaretz can present these events to the Israeli public (to the tiny critical minority) is to present it by appealing for human compassion for the soldiers traumatized by the horror they participated in. This narrative structure alone tells us how Israeli society has internalized the idea that the only human being whose gaze is worth caring about is an Israeli Jew. If he tortures and kills innocents, the victim remains off-stage, while we ask for compassion for the psychological repercussions on the torturer. This, I fear, is the underlying problem, from which everything else stems.
The second observation stems from the scandal caused Recently, the image of an IDF soldier in southern Lebanon smashing a statue of Jesus Christ on the cross with a sledgehammer has been published. The image has gone viral, sparking political reactions and even forcing, I believe for the first time, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu to distance himself and promise to impose sanctions against the soldier.
Now, for anyone with even a limited understanding of the Christian message, it cannot help but be astounded that no European chancellery would be moved by thousands of documented war crimes—rapes, torture, cold-blooded murders of defenseless citizens, shootings of children, firebombings of refugee camps, etc. (many of which were admitted and reported by the Israeli media)—only to then raise protests over the desecration of an image.
Indeed, if there is one thing that makes the Christian message stand in stark polemical contrast to the previous Jewish tradition, it is precisely its rejection of formalism, legalism, and the cult of outward appearances over human piety.”
Veet, your ego needs much attention.
Maybe time to go beyond ego.
Does not ‘veet’ mean ‘beyond’?
Although if Osho is to be believed, Jesus was rescued from the cross and went on to live a long life in Kashmir, having learned his lesson about getting involved with the religion of his homeland.
NP, I was replying to Satchit, if I’m correctly interpreting the placement of his biblical quote, perhaps a desperate attempt at exorcism, against a Zen communist like me.
I recall the story of the Indian exile of the Son of the Holy Spirit, rescued not on the cross by his father but after being taken down from it, without being finished off with blows that would have broken his bones, a practice still in vogue in those places.
Satchit, it was 1964, when I was born. Bob sang that times were a-changin’, JFK had just been killed, the Vietnam War would last another 10 years.
The tone of the song almost seems to warn those who try to resist change, prophesying drowning for those who don’t swim with the streaming… things didn’t go as the song hoped, the chains have become much heavier since then, the young losers of then are the same old losers today.
There have also been direct, i.e. political, attempts to change things, but in reality since then the power gap between the sovereign and the subjects has become unbridgeable.
We are living in a sort of conditional freedom, a temporary concession that can be denied us at any time.
They can lock us in our homes at any time and let us out only when we’re embittered enough to grab a knife and go on a thrill-seeking adventure, or a rifle and head to the front, where they say the enemies are waiting.
As special as that generation may have thought itself, having travelled the world and enjoyed drugs and sex, mocking their fathers and pissing off priests, that generation has lost, by continuing to invest in the hedonistic and recreational aspects of the horizontal dimension.
As for some of the most beautiful souls among them, the “spiritual ones” who landed in India, they would have had a chance to stop crawling, had they not found a valid alibi under the Master’s fingernail.
The lack of humility and cynicism of some of them is the clearest proof of this; deep down they know they’re losers…precisely the horizontal dimension of a defeat:
“… I don’t like fake cheerfulness
I can’t even stand dinners with friends
And I’m uncompromising with young people
I don’t give a damn about certain fashions, songs, and transgressions
And I’m also a little bored by those who moralize us
And extol married life as sacred
And then there are the gays who are perfectly right
But I can’t tolerate their exhibitions
… I don’t like those who are too supportive
And act like social workers
But those who speculate on the sick
On the disabled, drug addicts, and the elderly are real criminals
But I don’t see anyone getting pissed off anymore
Among all the addicts of the new breed
And those who invent a nice party for our good
He really seems destined to become a buffoon
… But maybe I’m the one who’s part
Of A dying breed
… My generation has seen
The streets, the squares crowded with passionate people
Confident of giving meaning back to their lives
But now it’s all things of the last century
My generation
Has lost
… I don’t like too much information
I also hate newspapers and television
Culture for the masses is idiotic
The line with sandwiches in front of museums makes me sad
And technology will take us far
But there’s no one who knows Italian anymore
The good thing is that schools are urgently updating themselves
And with all the new quizzes, they guarantee our ignorance
… I don’t like any ideology
I don’t even root for democracy
There are plenty of people who have something to say
Quality isn’t required, it’s the numbers that count
And I like my own country less and less
I no longer believe in the ingenuity of the Italian people
Where every intellectual creates opinion
But if you look closely, he’s the same old idiot
… But maybe I’m the one who’s part
Of a dying breed
… My generation saw
Thousands of young people ready for anything, who were trying
Perhaps with a little presumption, to change the world
We can tell our children about it, without any remorse
But my generation
Has lost
… I don’t like the global market
Which is the paradise of every multinational
And tomorrow, rest assured
There will be increasingly poorer and richer people, but all more imbecilic
And I imagine a future without any remedy
A kind of mass, without a single individual
… And I see our state, which is fearful and impotent
It is increasingly in disrepair and doesn’t care
And I also see a Church that is more pressing than ever
I wish it would sink, with all the Popes and Jubilees
… But this is an abstraction
It’s an idea of who belongs
To a dying breed.”
Gaber and Luporini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGpxyPmLH1g&list=RDtGpxyPmLH1g&start_radio=1
NP, you write, “I don’t see it as you do, as some lost golden age.”
That sounds ridiculous to me. A golden age of SN? Basically, all I said was that SN used to be a lot more fun. This is a fact as far as I am concerned, not some hankering for days long past.
You should be more honest, Lokesh.
You did not say “that SN used to be a lot more fun.”
You did not state the isness.
Basically you were complaining about how things are in your eyes. Like a judge from the hill.
There certainly used to be more people posting articles, that’s true. But people die of old age, or leave because they don’t like being the butt of too many jokes, or because people are inconsiderate.
A joke for today:
Doctor Klein finished the examination of his patient and then said, ”You are in perfect health, Mr. Levinsky, your heart, lungs, blood pressure, cholesterol level, everything is fine.”
”Splendid,” said Mr. Levinsky.
”I will see you next year,” said Doctor Klein.
They shook hands, but as soon as the patient had left the room, Doctor Klein heard a loud crash.
He opened the door and there, flat on his face, lay Mr. Levinsky. The nurse cried, ”Doctor, he just collapsed. He fell down like a rock.”
The doctor felt his heart and said, ”My God, he is dead.” He even put his hands under the corpse’s arms.
”Quick,” said the doctor, ”take his feet!”
”What?” cried the nurse.
”For God’s sake,” said the doctor, ”let us turn him round. We have to make it look like he was coming in!”
Gasbag
A person who speaks at too great a length, saying little of value and often with an air of pretentious authority.
So agree with Lokesh’s , 20 April, 2026 11:56 am & 21 April, 2026 at 8:40 am , comments .
Seems only Satchit, VT & NP are really having fun!
& SD is possibly in choiceless awareness!!!
If social workers also intervene on SN, it means that an old guy has been mistreated, and this time too it is not Osho.
Well, if Kavita says so too, maybe there was something to be said for the old days. Yet the forum goes through periodic revivals, last time when Frank, Dominic and Simond all visited.
On the whole I get more from Veet Francesco’s comments than from those of Lokesh, I don’t think the “gasbag” comment is at all justified, there is quite a bit of insight and a human touch there, if you’re prepared to invest a bit of time and thought.
Today I’m merely enjoying the sunny spring weather, it’s a balmy 17 degrees here, the cherry trees are blossoming, I can sit in the garden when I’m not busy tidying old boxes of stuff in the house. There is a bit of a spring clean going on….
A little joke for you:
The maths teacher turned to little Ernie and said, ”Ernest, if your father borrowed three hundred dollars and promised to pay back fifteen dollars a week, how much would he owe at the end of ten weeks?”
”Three hundred dollars,” Ernie quickly replied.
”I am afraid,” said the teacher, ”that you don’t know your maths very well.”
”I am afraid,” said Ernie, ”that you don’t know my father.”
Kavita, joining Lokesh’s complaint, and with this argument (only Satchit, VT & NP are really having fun!) demonstrates your intellectual dishonesty or cognitive bias.
This time, I won’t listen to the excuse you’ve so often used about your laziness, justifying your judgment by not having fully followed the debate.
The fact that a consensus of opinion can be created on a particular topic between people with a different philosophy than yours and those like you, seems to bother you, overlooking the fact that before to reach a shared synthesis, or perhaps just a moment of absence of controversy, we started from positions that were sometimes very distant.
This small achievement requires the commitment of an assertive proposal regarding the qualities of the spiritual bread we intend to share when we claim to be part of a community of disciples who post on a forum dedicated to their Master.
It’s much more congenial for a tired, bored, and apathetic person (and perhaps, you too, resentful?) like you to tell us that bread sucks because the person who kneaded it had long nails, and then too many years have passed, now it’s mouldy, while you never had any objections when your cynical hero suddenly became assertive for the bread made in Lucknow, kissing the ass of an obese baker Advaita pensioner.
Are you sure this Forum was more entertaining when people were ridiculed for trying to counter the then-rampant cynicism?
As I’ve tried to explain with my modest theoretical tools, such cynicism is the direct result of an existential philosophy, more or less explicit, marked by cosmic pessimism regarding the existence of a possible lowest common denominator of reality (ontology), and not just spiritual.
The effort required for my assertiveness, after that of many others before me, doesn’t seem to match your effort to understand how difficult it is to communicate when two interlocutors come from two different philosophical perspectives, seeking the meaning of a community still vital today around Osho.
For me, the quality and freshness of this bread has more to do with feeling than with gnoseology (a branch of philosophy that in the Anglo-Saxon world is confused with epistemology), but that doesn’t mean I’m unaware of how poisonous it can be to someone’s ego.
“The fact that I invite people to spiritual life doesn’t mean I don’t care about the welfare of my people” almost Osho quoted from memory, somewhere in his last lectures in 1989.
Quote found following Lokesh’s nostalgic suggestion, returning to an article from 10 years ago, and then opening a few links:
http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/5919#comments
https://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_Osho/Communism_and_Zen_Fire/Osho-Communism-and-Zen-Fire-index.html
Regarding Paritosh’s article from 10 years ago, there is a fairly shared and skeptical reaction among the comments regarding these words of Osho:
“But your growth is so slow, there is every fear that before you become enlightened the world will be gone.
You are not putting your total energy into meditation, into awareness. It is one of the things that you are doing, among many; and it is not even the first priority of your life.
I want it to become your first priority…
Immense responsibility rests on you because nowhere else in the whole world are people trying, even in small groups, to achieve enlightenment, to be meditative, to be loving, to be rejoicing. We are a very small island in the ocean of the world, but it doesn’t matter. If a few people can be saved, the whole heritage of humanity, the heritage of all the mystics, of all awakened people, can be saved through you.”
It seems to me that the analysis of the historical consequences of the collapse of the USSR, for which Osho seemed to intuit the projection of dark and looming shadows, 47 years later, is correct, consolidated year after year, leading to the abyss we face today.
The end of an alternative model to the law of the capitalist jungle has removed all physical and ideological limits to the predatory spirit that has since been injected like poison into the globalized collective consciousness.
I am not defending the Soviet socioeconomic system (neither does Osho), I am exploring the tragic tone of those words. Paritosh even speaks of desperation, which evidently concerned not the fate of a dying man but that of his beloved misfits.
Osho must have understood what became clear to me only fifteen years ago: that as long as the ideal possibility of a non-competitive and supportive society existed, this forced the Western world to concede something in terms of social justice — see the prosperity and quality of life in social democracies, not just Scandinavian ones — thus preventing the political rise of socialist-communist-revolutionary parties.
It would be interesting to understand how commentators today would perhaps correct their skeptical, cold and cynical reaction to the above-quoted words, having alluded, to who knows how many other hidden and sophisticated circles of seekers, beyond the one that formed around Osho, where the spiritual dimension was as important as the material, not excluding the political aspects of human existence.
Was there anyone around the world in that early 1989 who held their disciples in such high regard as to envision such a spiritual and political responsibility?
Osho said…
“If a few people can be saved, the whole heritage of humanity, the heritage of all the mystics, of all awakened people, can be saved through you.”
I think in a way it is true that Osho’s disciples carry the fragrance of the awakened people. It was a rarity that amidst the scientific materialist Westerners there still were people who came to Osho, for sannyas, for being with him, to be a commune.
But I always saw this as relating to the inner illumination of the world, not its political or cultural power structures. If you look at the impact of sannyasins on the world it is not so much, whereas if you look at their importance in terms of the awakening stream of consciousness and the people of free mind they mattered a great deal.
You can look at today’s spiritual fairs and non-dual satsangs as successors to what used to be sannyas centres. Certainly it is many of the same people who hang out at these places, and make the sense of awakening available to new folks. And so we contribute.
The West is dominated these days by materialist thinking, by the spectre of work, and people look for comfort and convenience first. The old idea of the sacred is disappearing, and what is coming in its place is “junk food”. It’s replacing one set of bonds with another, where Osho always advocated throwing off the bonds altogether.
It’s as if people don’t realise the truth of what Terence McKenna used to say about society: “Society is not your friend. None of us have been well-used by society.”
Nityaprem, I don’t remember who, in a Catholic context, said not to place limits on God’s providence, alluding to tempering the pride of those who presume to trust too much in man’s ability to externally control external events, especially political ones, imagining that effective actions on reality that go beyond the limits of politics are inconceivable.
If this is true, the equally arrogant attitude of imagining God always on our own side, pissing on all political possibilities of changing the things that sometimes make the world a horrible place, is probably also a mistake.
In my view, inspired by the old guy, I like to sing my song wherever and whenever there is someone who would like to listen. I have no prejudices about a potential member of my spiritual family. I continue to see people around me who are fundamentally brothers and sisters, under the guise of different cultural conditioning.
Encountering these people in their essence sometimes means discussing with them profound, sometimes millennia-old, identity processes, where religious values often intertwine with ethnic-national-political ones.
There’s no doubt that the old sage is right about that the authentic religious spirit implicitly make one a rebel against those barriers, on which the power of political-religious institutions is founded.
But there are concentration camps for noble souls. For example, there are monasteries around here that instil a sense of peace and eternity that rivals what I experienced in the ’90s in Miasto… okay, aside from the tantra, the laughter, the live music, the wild dancing, the best vegetarian cuisine in the world…
The problem you raise was posed in fascist prisons by someone before us (AI):
“Cultural hegemony is a concept developed by Antonio Gramsci that indicates the domination of a social class not only by force, but through the imposition of its own vision of the world as ‘common sense.’ Through culture and institutions, the ruling classes make their power natural, obtaining the active consent of society.”
For me, the answer isn’t always the choice of a hermit.
But you have a great poet’s heart, and if you feel the need for a place like this, I won’t judge you.
But since I don’t believe in divine providence, I invite you to place no limits on the power of your poetry, even that of changing the world in its (political) power structures, avoiding the same error of perspective as those afflicted by cosmic pessimism, with the symptoms of compulsive laughter due to the bitterness in their loser’s mouths, vivisecting man in two, separating him into two dimensions, in which one annihilates the other.
I don’t know whether monasteries are quite the thing for me, VF. I saw a video yesterday about Dutch culture and how it has changed in recent years, how many people create circles of friendship and loyalty in their teens and at university and after that don’t let anyone in, making it very difficult to make friends later in life. It’s here if you’re interested…
https://youtu.be/J3tberePEjw
I think it has a lot to do with indoors culture versus outdoors culture; if you’re used to living your life largely away from the home you have more encounters. But I find it interesting that there are people who say “I moved to Italy (or Brazil) and in six months I made more friends than in ten years in the Netherlands.”
But yes, living in close proximity to other spiritual people would be nice. Maybe to go and stay for a few months at Miasto, it looks like a nice place from the website.
Thanks, Nityaprem, I found the video interesting. Mr. Freme Kwame (is that his name?) seems like a wise and kind person, who cares about people who, like him, might suffer from socialization issues due to cultural differences.
It would be nice if we italians too had such a civilized way of addressing the problem of ethnic integration…
Even though when I happened to load-unload the truck in neighboring Belgium, at the port of Antwerp, the picture was completely different, with entire ghetto neighborhoods populated by Maranza*, I don’t know if the port of Rotterdam (aside from the very sweet Rwandan Ma Surina) would be much different.
If you decide to take a vacation, for groups, or to work in the Miasto commune, I’ll come visit you for a coffee (depending on my work commitments).
But you know better than I that Osho’s context is not typically Italian, just as Pune’s is not typically Indian, Hum’s typically Dutch, or the Ranch’s typically North American…
For example, in Miasto, if a group of friends sitting at the same table at lunch includes a non-Italian, then they will tend to practise the language needed to follow an Osho talk. This has many implications, leading everyone to let go, along with their language, of the comfort zone of their own ethnic origins, which resonates with that language.
What the video doesn’t explore are precisely the reasons, in a forcibly globalized world, that activate those centripedal forces of cultural belonging in social relations, and what the reasons, economic and political conditions might be for reversing this direction, opening up to new social possibilities.
Why open oneself up, for example, to the morality of fundamentalist Jews or that of the Taliban? I’d rather dye my hair blonde and learn the best Dutch accent for blasphemy, a thousand times over.
But I think I’ve said enough about the potential of the model offered by our Sangha; I don’t want to bore you.
An example (in the video below) of how the same issue of immigrant integration is represented on the radio station of the Italian Industrialists’ Association (the broadcast is a kind of zoo where xenophobia, stereotypes and chaos are fuelled…fuelling the consensus of right-wing parties who talk about order and police protection, thus tougher laws for street crime and unrestrained access to the owners of the means of production, including the market for immigrants, who are brought in as low-cost labor).
The show is hosted by a transgressive journalist (Cruciani) and a more serious and institutional figure, David P. (a Jewish Zionist). In this video, they pit a white Italian self-styled racist manager-influencer (Urso) against a Maranza* (Mimmo Blaze), who proudly claims to be a drug dealer and thief until he is granted Italian citizenship, since he is a self-proclaimed homosexual who could not return to his country without persecution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFCJZtqWaMI
Maranza*:
https://www.wantedinmilan.com/news/the-meaning-of-the-word-maranza.html
Wonderful projection perhaps!
I think the best way to listen to Osho is like a shower of words, let it all wash over you, and then let it drain away. A lot of it will just disappear, leaving you refreshed. Very little of his words stick, and that is as it should be.
In a way I have found all spiritual guidance in words to be less than useful. With words come an impression of what the teacher is trying to say, which is formed by a mixture of understanding and imagination, and that is a half-truth at best. You can’t expect to be able to think normally even, let alone make use of half-understood teachings.
Instead it seems to be best to move wordlessly, to seek the spaces where ecstasy moves you and delight finds your steps. To dance to the music only you can hear, the drums you feel in your bones.
“This small achievement requires the commitment of an assertive proposal regarding the qualities of the spiritual bread we intend to share when we claim to be part of a community of disciples who post on a forum dedicated to their Master.”
First of all, what is this small achievement? Agree we are the community of a master, and this master viewed achievement as a projection of the ego and hindrance to living, in which the present moment is lost.
Probably you need to break from your ramblings, to really see why Lokesh is saying what he is saying; Of course there is no hierarchy/dominance in that .
SN is a platform for all sannyasins, remember!
Anyway, lastly about my being lazy is not an excuse, it’s more about effortlessness. Anyway, wish you the best always, Veet.
Kavita, perhaps you’re distracted. We’ve already discussed at length the trend of Advaitism, the art of the here and now, only to achieve the goal of silencing someone, only to advance one’s own agenda on this forum—at best, the purely recreational one of interfering with the moral responsibility of those who express gratitude to Osho by sharing his gifts.
Read what Osho says about human multidimensionality…remember? Not just Buddha…abstract transcendence applied to all human phenomena makes you an amoeba. Cheer up, find yourself a toyboy!
As for your friends who disappeared from the forum to do things that are undoubtedly more interesting than describing more creative ways of sticking a mala up their own ass, like observing the incredible genetic transformations of a body subjected to a messenger RNA experiment, as I wrote earlier in my reply to Satchit, resonating with what Zhok says about the hierarchy of values in religions, the sense of opposition to them is caused by the arrogance in their attempt to make what remains of the human and transcendent story of Osho (and his people), preserved in the hearts of simple and innocent disciples, appear as a collection of contradictory discourses and empty devotional rituals.
Now, I maintain that this could be a mistake of perspective on their part, and even your return here to give me your paltry little lecture, culminating with an exclamation point, only to then go back to drinking chamomile tea to recover from your stress, doesn’t greatly alter the feeling that binds me to Osho’s lovers (and potentially such… don’t you feel that thirst around you?), the only “places” where I can rediscover, still intact, the grace and beauty of what a human being can be.
Does it seem like a small responsibility to defend such beauty and vitality in these times? But go ahead and mind your own business, if that’s your main achievement.
Now, I agree with this too!
Gasbag
A person who speaks at too great a length, saying little of value and often with an air of pretentious authority.
SD & NP, hats off to your level of patience & probably eflfortlessness, too!
Kavita, perhaps you’d like to actually write something for the forum that is not a quick comment? Maybe a piece about what you think about your experiences with Osho and sannyas?
NP, thank you for inviting me to write, but I have written all I could possibly share / reveal, whenever there has beena chance to. Right now also since a few years, I don’t find anything really worth sharing here, I probably have a very mundane life. Possibly earlier there were some relatively better topics which were more relatable here. Now there is no time to waste on matters that don’t really nourish one’s essential being & non-being!
After Dharmen & Parmartha died, existentially there has been a low tide on SN for me/many like me.
Frankly, thanks to you, there has been some activity here. SN is my virtual commune. Been nearly the same feeling here, like when the physical (Poona ) Commune ended for me then I interact with my only friend Pragyama, and whenever that happens we discuss mostly about our day-to-day life & sometimes her Bhagwan / Osho, for whom she cooked from Poona One days.
Anyway that’s all for now…for the rest you can fill in the blanks!
I find Kavita’s sharing interesting; it helps me better understand her groupie mentality, especially when she says that for a few years she hasn’t found anything worthy to share, perhaps because she leads a life that’s too mundane…
This could mean, if she’s not being sarcastic, that for a few years the Forum has been addressing topics that aren’t mundane enough, such as spiritual, religious, sacred, divine, ascetic ones… perhaps in a reserved, austere, serious tone…
Then she adds something that should clarify her point, better defining the topics that stimulated her sharing years ago, finding them more relatable to something that, for her, “really nourishes one’s essential being and non-being!” (the exclamation point again, expressing her impatience), when Parmartha and Dharmen were still alive.
I’m confused: were Parmartha and Dharmen too mundane or not mundane enough? Or maybe it’s just her who’s changed, in a direction different from the mood of this virtual community.
Kavita could begin by sharing her feelings about these changes, attempting to analyze the possible causes of the change, if by chance, what has happened in recent years, on a global scale, might be relevant to her as well.
Yet, living near the Resort, she could share valuable information, for example, about how the pandemic was handled, whether the same stringent hygiene measures adopted during the AIDS crisis were adopted.
She could share about the management changes, if any, following the death of big boss Sw. Jayesh, a topic that should have interested Mr. Iqbal in the first place, given that his criticisms of OIF’s management often targeted the Canadian himself.
Now I control my impatience, I breathe, I avoid tugging at Satyadeva’s jacket, inviting censorship for those who don’t satisfy my need to read the things that nourish me, satisfy my curiosity, or my literary taste, and I keep my frustration to myself.
I dedicate the most worldly song by the mystic Battiato, hoping to appeal to the tastes of wavering people like Kavita.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gj4ED79IAs&list=RD4Gj4ED79IAs&start_radio=1
Overintellectualization is a psychological defence mechanism in which a person overthinks and overanalyzes a situation, often to avoid or deny their own emotions or feelings. This can manifest in various ways, such as:
1. Overanalyzing: Constantly examining and re-examining a situation, often to the point of becoming stuck in one’s thoughts.
2. Rationalizing: Using logical reasoning to justify one’s actions or decisions, even when they go against one’s own emotions or intuition.
3. Intellectualizing: Focusing on the abstract or intellectual aspects of a situation, rather than the emotional or personal aspects.
4. Avoiding emotions: Using mental activity to avoid or suppress one’s own emotions, such as by focusing on rational thoughts or distractions.
5. Denying feelings: Refusing to acknowledge or accept one’s own emotions, often by convincing oneself that they don’t exist or are not important.
Overintellectualization can be a maladaptive coping mechanism, as it can prevent individuals from fully engaging with their emotions and desires, leading to feelings of disconnection and dissatisfaction. It can also lead to anxiety, depression, and other mental health issues.
I think discussing other people’s bad habits is not conducive to making SN a better place to hang out. It’s just going to push people away from the site. Why not write something positive, or engage in a discussion about Osho or sannyas or whatever the topic of the day may be, instead of this?
Awww, right, NP, you basically want deeper, more spiritual content in the writer’s comments. A good example of which you delivered quite recently:
“Seaside cafes also have vastly improved their coffee offerings, the better ones these days have Segafredo, Illy or Lavazza beans and a good espresso machine.”
Wow! Deep! I’ll see what I can do.
We can talk about that the whole of Germany becomes emotional because of a whale.
https://youtu.be/8mg_Kk51fHA?si=yhJAoLumpxSPiDlo
Satchit, I don’t want to sound too intellectual by avoiding the collective German-Scottish-Indian emotions over Timmy the Whale, but I’m much more concerned about German rearmament against the fear of a “Russian invasion”…have you ever heard such big bullshit? Oh…yes…it’s by von der Leyen again, when she spent 35 billion euros of our money to fight the invasion of a lab-created flu virus, buying toxic vaccines via WhatsApp.
https://ilsimplicissimus2.com/2026/04/24/si-scrive-von-der-leyen-ma-si-pronuncia-netanyahu/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizergate
People sympathise with its aloneness it seems, and it’s a rarity, Germany’s Baltic Sea coast is not often visited by a humpback whale. I think it’s a good thing that people can have their feelings moved by an animal.
The mainstory is that there are two groups. One tries to rescue the whale with the money of a millionaire. They have the idea to put him on a kind of boat to lead him to the North Sea.
The other group says let him die in peace on the beach.
Certainly these groups are great enemies on the internet.
Another interesting behaviour of our cetacean cousins, dolphins getting high off a pufferfish’s neurotoxins… even passing the pufferfish around….
https://youtu.be/msx3BAhIeQg
Nityaprem, let me enjoy the moment. I’ve finally taken Osho’s place. On SN, they talk about me, that is, about “I,” about my “bad habits,” as you define them.
Although there are plenty of less lazy and more lucid intellectuals who have already addressed the topic, it’s mostly an invitation to humility, to change pronouns, moving to “we.”
For goodness’ sake, a small step forward, an invitation to be welcomed, but only if we don’t lose sight of our individual responsibility to observe the white clouds.
“The word I
It’s an idea that slowly makes its way
In a child, it sounds as sweet as an echo
It’s a push to take the first steps
Toward an intimate certainty of oneself
The word I
Over time, it takes on a more precise tone
Sometimes it risks being annoying
But it’s also the sign of a childish logic
It’s a recurring but venial sin
I, I, I
I again
But the vice of the adolescent
It doesn’t fade with age
And in adults, strangely
It becomes more alarming and grows
The word I
It’s a strange cry
That hides in vain
The fear of being nobody
It’s an exaggerated need
And a little soft
It’s the poignant image of Narcissus
I, I, I
And I again
I who was not born
To remain forever confused in anonymity
I is for forward
I can’t stand the idea of feeling like just another number
Every day I expand
I can be The center of the world
I am always present
I am willing to suffer any lowliness to feel important
I have to hurry
Excited by this mania for asserting myself at all costs
I inflate myself, I sell myself short
I want to be the center of the world
I respect no one
If I need to, I can even pretend to be good
The musts dominate
I am a being without ideals, thirsty for power
I am the one in charge
I must be the center of the world
I am vain, presumptuous
Exhibitionist, boastful, pompous
I am proud, megalomaniac, boastful
Greedy and intrusive
Disgusting, arrogant, overbearing
I, only I
Everywhere I
The word I
This sweet, innocent monosyllable
It is inevitable that it will become widespread
In the logic of the Western world
Perhaps it is the last original sin, I”.
Gaber and Luporini.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlGAt0WJak&list=RDLUlGAt0WJak&start_radio=1
“The effort on the path of sannyas is to drop your mind, and your mind can be dropped only if your no is dropped. Let me say it in other words:
No is mind.
Yes is your soul.
You can choose; still there is no problem.
But remaining a sannyasin you cannot continue to have the no. Freedom will come, but it will come from the door of yes. That will be real freedom.”
(Osho, ‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’)
If nothing else, a wee Osho quote can come in handy. Unfortunatrly this particular Osho quote is not exactly a gold nugget. More like a piece of doggie doo doo. NP, are you really so underdeveloped that this kind of nonsense actually cuts the mustard for you?
“No is mind.
Yes is your soul.
You can choose; still there is no problem.”
Yeah, right, especially if you don’t consider for a moment the nature of the chooser.
‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’…it must be true.
Perhaps you had to see it in context. Quoting Osho can be tricky at times, because the context can ramble on for quite a few pages…
“Tricky” my boonga-boonga. It’s just nonsense for dummies who don’t know any better.
Anyway, giving you the benefit of the doubt, how about you put that quote in context? I’ll bet you don’t…not now that you are a great poet and all. A regular old VIP on SN…With a fan base of one.
“Initiations cannot be conditional. You are a sannyasin; you should have thought beforehand that you are going on the path of yes. And this path of yes will end in freedom. If you think you need the no also, then the whole world is free – everybody has the no, the yes, everybody has his mind.
The effort on the path of sannyas is to drop your mind, and your mind can be dropped only if your no is dropped. Let me say it in other words:
No is mind.
Yes is your soul.
You can choose; still there is no problem.
But remaining a sannyasin you cannot continue to have the no. Freedom will come, but it will come from the door of yes. That will be real freedom.
But many sannyasins go on writing to me, strange questions that surprise me. Just the other day in the newspapers, one sannyasin has given an interview. In the interview he was asked, “When Osho was in the jails of America, were you disturbed?”
He said, ”One day Osho is going to leave the body. He cannot be eternally in the body, so we have to accept it; it was a good opportunity to accept his absence.””
Here is the quote in a bit more context, just for you Lokesh, see if you think it makes more sense. I liked it because it was a straightforward piece of advice about sannyas wedged in between a story about Ananda and Buddha’s death, and a discussion about Osho leaving the body.
I’m not a great poet, or a VIP, these are just your projections, Lokesh.
“But remaining a sannyasin you cannot continue to have the no. Freedom will come, but it will come from the door of yes. That will be real freedom.”
Maybe the real freedom will be being free from the Sannyasin identity too?
Yeah, thanks for taking the time to respond, NP. Once upon a time, it was perhaps seen by some as cutting-edge. I no longer see it like that. Now it has become old Osho hat.
Take care, man, I know you mean well.
How did you do it, Nityaprem?!
You managed to make Lokesh doubt his unerring instinct for spotting dummies.
Good news!
A park in Rome, in the Talenti area, has been dedicated to a poet-artist, a friend of Osho.
https://www.romatoday.it/zone/montesacro/talenti/parco-remo-remotti-via-fucini.html
“AI: Remo Remotti (1924–2015), an Italian actor, writer, and artist, was a follower of the Indian mystic Osho, also known as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.
Guru Relationship: On his official website, Remo Remotti explicitly referred to Osho as “my great guru” (Italian: “Il mio grande guru Osho”), citing Osho’s teachings on the importance of having a sense of humor and avoiding people who are too serious.
Teachings: Remotti incorporated Osho’s philosophy into his perspective on life and artistic expression, which was characterized by irreverence and humour”.
I’m sorry that you can’t grasp the nuances of his Roman dialect, YT’s automatic translation is even more approximate than Google’s which I add after the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkNaF6XgOFM
“The century we have behind us is the Twentieth Century. A century of blood, death, sweat, tears. Of pain.
There was the First World War, a few million dead in a mess. Before that, there was the Libyan war. And then the Spanish Civil War: three years where men killed each other like wild beasts. The war in Africa. And finally, the Second World War. FIFTY MILLION DEAD. Twenty million in Russia alone. Six million Jews: the Holocaust. Hiroshima. ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY THOUSAND DEAD THAT MORNING. Ninety thousand dead in Nagasaki. The day the Allies landed, the Americans in Normandy, D-DAY. Saving Private Ryan. THREE THOUSAND DEAD. THERE, ON THE BEACH.
I am a former colonel in the Corps of Engineers. I am a genius. My name is Eugenio. I am retired, but I never stay. I think, therefore I am. And the other night I thought. I had a brilliant idea that will make me one of the most famous men since Einstein. They’ll give me the Nobel Peace Prize. I’ll go to the United Nations to explain my plan. Bullshit. A Columbus egg. Enough of these wars where we send these young people to kill at eighteen or twenty years old to enrich some oilman or some international banker. From now on, wars will be fought by old people!
“How old are you?”
“Seventy.”
“Get out of here, get into the army!”
These old people you abandon in public parks, so you can go off and explore the world in the summer with dogs, cats, and other animals, from now on… a kick in the ass! EVERYONE TO THE BARRACKS! EVEN THE OLD WOMEN! We’ll put all the old women in the Red Cross. We’ll get rid of these old women, fuck you! Go away, that old woman, go to the Red Cross!
“They’re shooting at the Red Cross!”
“We don’t give a damn!”
It’s in the nature of things. We’ll go to hospitals, we’ll go to hospices, everywhere. All the terminally ill: all suicide bombers!
“But I’m sick!”
“Fuck it, who cares? You have to die, and go fuck yourself! What euthanasia, euthanasia, my ass. What, do you want your nephew to die? He’s eighteen or twenty years old? Go fuck yourself, go away!”
It’s better to die with a bullet in the head, than to die without balls: inside a hospital, intubated like a snake after months of suffering. Mr. Marinetti, the futurist, said, “Wars are the hygiene of humanity.” An ugly phrase, I never liked it. But maybe in this case it might even work.
And then these wars at the front will be more easygoing, more good-natured, how should I put it?
Front line:
“Shoot!”
“Why am I shooting? I can’t see shit! I have cataracts, what am I shooting?!?”
“And throw a hand grenade!”
“Yeah, good evening! The hand grenade… I have a shoulder here that I can’t move… fuck you!”
“What are you doing, are you shitting yourself? Are you scared?”
“What the hell, I’m not scared! I’m eighty years old, damn it, every now and then I shit myself! What the fuck, didn’t you know?”
“Achtung achtung! Wait a minute! Brothers, enemies, what are we doing here, what are we doing? Translate! Achtung! Eh… what are we playing here for? We managed to live until we’re eighty, and now we’re killing each other like so many assholes? Let’s love each other, brothers! Let’s make peace here, give me a kiss!”
“Did you hear the latest?”
“What happened?”
“They took three Italian hostages?”
“Ah, poor kids…”
“What kids are eighty, seventy, ninety years old… nobody gives a shit anymore! And then if they send these hostages back to us, to get rid of their bad habits, do you know what we’ll do? We’ll take them back to the hospice!”
https://www.remoremotti.com/
Hilarious, wars fought by old people!
There was a science fiction novel by John Scalzi not that long ago called ‘Old Man’s War’, in which the premise was that old people were recruited for wars in space and given rejuvenation treatments.
Nityaprem, today it might seem obvious to say that war is big business for a few insiders and a huge rip-off for ordinary people who find themselves on the front lines shooting other ordinary people, torn like them from their families and their honest work. Yet, even with enough political awareness to understand all this, on two occasions I found myself in the position of being sent to two war zones: Lebanon in 1983 (during my compulsory military service) and Somalia in 1990, where a classmate of mine from the Tuscania Paratrooper Battalion (Paolo Pusinieri) was wounded at the Pasta checkpoint (luckily, a few months earlier, I had been transferred from the operational battalion to a Roman government building).
The Wiki link below is only in Italian, ‘Pasta Factory Battle’. The name came from the factory being near where Italian soldiers, on the road, blocked vehicles for checks.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglia_del_pastificio
However, to avoid being drawn into a battle, and not having to hope for fortunate circumstances, it would be better to avoid the problem at its source by not wearing a soldier’s uniform.
If I had followed my heart and become a non-violent conscientious objector at 18, I would not have been eligible to participate in the public competition for a military police salary in 1989, because this issue also arose at the time, with my father having recently died and me having responsibilities towards the rest of the family, as the eldest child.
But above all, choosing non-violent warfare at 18 would have strengthened my sense of self-esteem and integrity, nourishing my rebellious inner self, unwilling to compromise.
In those years, there was a whole macho culture in our country that saw the year of military service as a rite of passage that transformed dreamy adolescents into real men; in short, conscientious objection was something for faggots or sickly people.
Evidently, I didn’t have the guts to challenge that narrative, as the first Italian conscientious objector, Andrea V., had done in 1967; 10 years later, he would become Sw. Majid.
I’m not even proud of how I lived that first year away from home, treated like a machine that responded to orders shouted mechanically and impersonally, from morning till night, with sleepless nights exposed to the bullying of buckets of water reserved for those more resilient to discipline, like me.
I broke inside, I became tough on the outside, a bully among the new arrivals and a friend of alcohol and chemical highs with my classmates, broken inside like me.
It took me a few years to regain a decent relationship with myself, long enough for me to feel the need to revisit old wounds, returning to the crime scene of identical barracks, with my rather cold corpse, with that melancholy for an old idea of my soul, something that had been taken from me, which years later I would find intact thanks to the fragrance of our Friend.
There were poets and writers who found themselves on the front lines of the First World War (like Gadda or Ungaretti), almost none with the warrior spirit of Gabriele D’Annunzio (who, in fact, was no longer young but an adult fascist fanatic who flew over the trenches in airplanes).
In 1914, a Roman dialect poet, Trilussa, prophetically wrote one of the most, imv, powerful and moving anti-war poems, this lullaby:
Version recited by Gigi Proietti, a beloved Italian and Roman actor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5I29INt648
Here, the first 20 minutes of the video (afterwards, the author makes a political comment on current events that I disagree with: speaking about human rights in the abstract, that is, outside the context of social rights, means spreading the message that Italy has infinite resources to care for all those who arrive in the country irregularly, without this having a social impact or cost on the lives of residents, forgetting that they are often economic immigrants, that is, from countries not at war). If you’d like to delve deeper into the meaning and dialect pronunciation, for a yours possible future living in Rome, learning this poem by heart is more than enough to be accepted in most of the surviving Roman community:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0ne-swrm_k&t=778s
If you decide to run for mayor of Rome, you should also be able to sing the lyrics of the poem, here in a famous version by Roman Claudio Baglioni:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euEl_iBeSaE&list=RDeuEl_iBeSaE&start_radio=
Speaking of how money can mysteriously channel lives, even very different in culture and sensibility, into seemingly immutable military patterns, here is a lecture by Professor Zhok on the underlying economic mechanisms that the poet can perhaps only intuit:
“Analyses produced in a Marxist vein remain the most powerful in interpreting contemporary society, the most capable of accounting for and anticipating its underlying dynamics. However, they often suffer from a lack of “intuitiveness,” a lack of “figurativeness.” If you explain to someone that their actions, whatever they believe about themselves, are, in the long run, channeled or at least conditioned by the structural macromechanisms of capital’s self-reproduction, most people’s instinctive reaction is one of mistrust or disbelief. This is because they (and, in truth, each of us, with very rare exceptions) are not intentionally moved by those levers: they don’t want to “make ever more money,” they don’t want to “obtain increasing margins,” that’s not what motivates and motivates them.
This fact has always been an obstacle to a full understanding of that explanatory model, almost two centuries after its first formulations. If we look at the national and international movements that led to the First World War, we clearly see how the conflict appears as the fatal horizon of unlimited and necessarily expansive economic competition, which first exhausts its own internal resources, then spills over into colonial adventure (first globalization), and finally takes action, transforming economic competition into a full-blown war. However, although a hindsight analysis clearly reveals these processes (and although some, like Rosa Luxemburg, had already described them at the time), the vast majority of people on the threshold of the First World War (including prominent members of the ruling classes) interpreted those circumstances as “a quest for living space,” “national self-defense,” “patriotic pride,” “protecting their families from foreign barbarism,” etc. They didn’t go to war to please the Rothschilds, but for entirely understandable human reasons. The bitter wisdom of Marx’s Cassandra lies in the fact that, in reality, they were actually doing the Rothschilds and the Krupps a favor, not themselves, not their country, not their families, etc.
Today the situation is similar, with the added benefit of big capital’s far more refined manipulative capacity than in the past. Even today, we shouldn’t think that all “capitalists” act for “capitalist reasons.” In truth, they are a minority. The point is that “capitalism” is technically a very simple form of production and social reproduction: it is a system (an “algorithm”) that has a single “target”—the progressive average increase in capitalization—and therefore a single direction: infinite growth, infinite expansion. It knows no other goals, or rather, it can exploit all of them instrumentally, but they do not represent the real point of failure. It is therefore a social system that automatically generates unlimited consumption of resources, expansionism, and the universalistic imposition of its own paradigms everywhere, and thus cyclically generates crises, conflicts, and massive destruction, which merely rewind the clock of the same blind dynamic.
The point I want to emphasize here, however, is that the capitalist structure, over time, has also learned to construct its own “ideology,” which is slowly beginning to take on an increasingly defined form (see the “visions” of figures like Peter Thiel). This “ideology” is not supported by the crude and abstract prospect of “making more and more money,” a barren prospect largely incapable of moving even the sharks of finance. This ideology has some fundamental tenets, linked to the ideas that in the philosophical tradition have been called “nihilism” and “will to power.”
The ideology of capital is:
1) NIHILIST, in the sense of destroying any reference to natural, traditional, or historical values;
2) PROGRESSIVE, in the sense of conceiving of “moving forward” at any cost as coinciding with the “best”;
3) TECHNOCRATIC, in the sense of imagining a world in which wisdom is defined as competence in the exercise of technological power;
4) TRANSHUMANIST, in the sense of conceiving of humanity as raw material freely malleable for ulterior purposes, specifically for the purpose of “increasing power”;
5) MONOPOLISTICALLY UNIVERSALIST, in the sense of assuming that there can and should be only one true worldview, to be extended to the entire globe, excluding every other vision as essentially “inferior.”
The Musks, the Thiels, the Gates, the Soros, and many other less famous ones all move within this nihilistic, progressive, technocratic, transhumanist, and universalist horizon. It would be wrong to think that they “only aim to make more and more money.” In their eyes, capital appears only as a necessary tool, which, as necessary, naturally, cannot be compromised in any way. But they consider themselves “idealists.” What they fail to grasp, as do millions of others who would like to be in their shoes, is that what appears to them as a “true vision” is simply the translation into an image of the workings of capital.
1) The triumph of capital (money) is the replacement of natural and traditional values with exchange value (price);
2) The process of capital is ideally a continuation of indefinite accumulation (progress);
3) Capital is the most powerful metatechnology in history: it is the means of all means, the instrument that allows the control of all other instruments and all goods;
4) Capital is the power of infinite and unlimited transformation: it has no form of its own, but can be transformed liquidly into anything; and therefore it seems it could retain value even if human beings were to disappear;
5) Capital is an abstract form, intrinsically universal. Capital’s worldview is to historical and anthropological worldviews what numbers are to the words of human languages: a universal, transversal, yet semantically empty language.
So, when today we see the world’s evil concentrated in the Trumps and the Netanyahus, let us remember that they will be gone soon (okay, never too soon), and that their lame excuses, their comedian-like justifications based on the Bible, the Holocaust, human rights, etc., will soon be gone, but the fundamental drive behind them (and many even on opposing political sides) will not.
The drive to think
that there are no objective values (neither in nature nor in history) will not go away;
that “moving forward” toward progress (that is, toward a further “moving forward”) is in itself good;
that the possessors of technoscience are also the possessors of knowledge and wisdom;
that humanity is a expendable accident;
that every other vision, perspective, or opinion is merely an atavism, an error, or a prejudice to be eradicated and displaced.
We will encounter this configuration again and again, in further international aggression, further humanitarian bombings, further preemptive strikes, further “wars of civilizations,” further genocides in the name of progress, further incarcerations in the name of good, further assassinations in the name of the idea that our way of life is non-negotiable.
Until, either we destroy it or it destroys us”.
MOD:
Veet Francesco:
1/ The link at the end of the first paragraph has been lost.
2/ I was tempted to leave out the lecture by Professor Zhok as being not really appropriate for SN, but have included it, depending on the response from readers, ie if enough find it interesting and relevant, then it will remain, otherwise it’ll be deleted
I waded through Prof Zhok’s lecture, I’m not sure it all sunk in but will give it another go later. The basic premise – that billionaires tend to see socioeconomic manipulation of society as a hobby – is a little suspect but interesting. Certainly when you look at Gates, Musk, Thiel and Soros, they meddle in world affairs.
“Capitalism is not intelligent, it is not beautiful, it is not fair, it is not virtuous, and it does not keep its promises. In short, we do not like it and are beginning to despise it. But when we ask ourselves what to put in its place, we are extremely perplexed.”
(John Maynard Keynes, 1933)
Unfortunately, at Bretton Woods (1944), the US economic vision, represented by Harry D. White, prevailed: the prevalence of the strongest, that is, the richest.
Despite the good intentions of enlightened economists like Keynes, his theories were only applied for a few years (until the 1970s), and perhaps only thanks to the political threat of the socialist model, before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Then, when the happy few had accumulated enough money to decide how to protect their purchasing power from inflation, they began restrictive monetary policies, which continue to this day, in the name of those who wanted to end the monopoly of nation states on issuing money, according to von Hayek’s neoliberalism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk&list=RDd0nERTFo-Sk&start_radio=1
“Remember one thing, I am the first enlightened man in the whole of history who accepts that there is every possibility of his committing mistakes. I don’t say I am infallible like the Pope; I don’t say I am omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent like Gautam Buddha, Mahavira, Krishna, because that creates problems. Christians claim these same qualities for God and Mohammedans also for their God. But their God is in constant difficulty, and Krishna and Buddha and Mahavira are all in constant difficulty because they claim something which is not right.”
(Osho, ‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’)
“Now it’s usually people’s mind trips you read about, or those poor adults in their fifties who were abused on the communes as children.” Lokesh, April 20, 2026 at 11:56 am
I’d like to return to the recent criticisms (by Kavita, Lokesh, and partly also Veet Tom) about the things that appear written on this forum…don’t worry, I’ll be brief; I’d also like to read something more interesting than the things I write; evidently, I already know them.
I don’t argue with the criticisms regarding the aesthetic form of the comments. Not being a native English speaker, I have no idea how, effectively or not, my (or others’) stylistic choices are translated into a language other than my own, to communicate content with what I intend to be the right expressive tones and colors.
The accusation about the content is that it’s mind-tripping and/or boringly repetitive, as in the case of the topic that was dear to NP for a while, about the documentary “Children of the Cult.”
Personally, I felt it natural to respond to such reiterated and generalized accusations, against the attempt to describe the spirit of Sannyas that structures our community like a psycho-cult that sacrifices children. I did so extensively and precisely, topic after topic, whenever NP or others gave reason.
Now, I’m not a philologist or biographer of Lokesh, but I don’t think I’m wrong in recalling, on this Oregonian topic of the misdeeds of Osho and his devotees, more than a shrug on his part, as if it didn’t surprise him, as if they were just more low-quality recreational things to be uncritically accepted as true events, events that really happened, events carved in the cold, hard stone of cynicism.
His usual paternalistic and pretextual indulgence, activated every time he’s given the opportunity to add to the long list of failures of Osho and his naive devotees.
It doesn’t even surprise me anymore that he joined the outraged-scandalized chorus, with an inquisitorial finger pointing at the sinner of the moment, Lokesh being a devotee of a brahmacharya baker.
Were those who subjected certain dossiers to critical scrutiny wrong, or were wrong those who missed to do so or even joined in the accusations and gossip?
If those who write to reject attempts to distort the spirit of the Orange Movement are driven, as in my case, by a debt of gratitude (which is also expressed by the love for the truth required to preserve that spirit so it can still be enjoyed), what is it that drives those who continue to write on a forum of Osho friends-lovers that this friendship-love is misplaced?
Resentment, perhaps?
Would it make sense to come here and pretend to be Osho’s disciples just to show that they have regained their autonomy from the Master by flaunting their ingratitude?
And if it’s neither resentment nor ingratitude (or a mix of the two), why come here to celebrate their own malignant cynicism about the private affairs of a man who can no longer defend himself?
Perhaps the “so funny” people who no longer write here have grown tired of being subjected to these insistent questions and in-depth analyses, which are of a certain usefulness, therefore, not just mind trips.
Finally, I would like to point out that the contribution of many friends and lovers of Osho on this forum has been lost due to the poisonous climate described above, thanks to the people who write things that make K. and L. sneer.
A homophobic closeted homosexual is a new one for me. It certainly must be a weird one to live with.
The power of homophobia is such that homosexual individuals often feel culturally compelled to misrepresent their sexuality (something known as being “in the closet”) in order to avoid social stigma. However, homophobia also impacts heterosexuals, as it is impossible to definitively prove one’s heterosexuality.
Accordingly, heterosexuals and homosexuals wishing to be thought heterosexual are compelled to avoid associating with anything coded as homosexual. This is accomplished through the repeated association with cultural codes of heterosexuality and disassociation from codes for homosexuality.
Conversely, the suspicion that someone is homosexual often is cast upon whoever displays behaviour gender-coded as appropriate for the opposite sex. For men, competitive team sports, violence, cars, beer, agro rants, and an emotionless disposition have been associated with masculinity (and thus heterosexuality), while an appreciation of the arts, fine food, individual sports, and emotional expressionism has been associated with homosexuality.
It’s a funny old world.
The very foundations of the first degrees of the sannyasin school are missing here… the scrotal sac risks ending up on the floor (Italian idiom)…patience is needed with old men before sending them to the war front.
I really don’t see what Lokesh finds strange in what is the rule of most religious ethical codes regarding sex. It’s called the rule of suspicion, usually characterized by the light-hearted allusions of gossip, a way to fuel guilt in others by those who feel above suspicion (in fact, being ugly helps) and the temptations of ordinary mortals.
I remember Lokesh being very allusive about dear Arpana on a couple of occasions.
But I don’t believe that “having a son is enough to be a man and not a rabbit-coward…how many deviations do you have?…Do you want me to believe that not even one deviation?” (Vasco Rossi: ‘Deviations’)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8GPJ7XTS28&list=RDo8GPJ7XTS28&start_radio=1
The whole topic of toxic masculinity has been doing the rounds for a while, and in my eyes is more relevant than hetero vs homo anyway.
Nityaprem, it depends on the context in which the topic of toxic masculinity is discussed.
For example, in a context of Nazi-feminism where everything emanating from the male is linked to the most regressive forms of patriarchy, I have good reason to think that such an ideological attitude (woke transhumanism) is functional to “divide and conquer.”
It seems to me that the political objective is the destruction of the traditional family, that is, the place where old values could still represent an anchor, a resistance, a filter, a place of archaic cultural development, intolerable for the will of a market, which, in order to sell more, must destroy all other voices that might interfere with its own.
This anti-masculinity-heterosexuality ideology can be equally toxic. Examples:
when they send transvestites to teach sex in elementary schools;
when they administer hormone treatments to children to change their sex, when it’s well known that penis-removal surgery forces a life of physical suffering;
when in the event of separation, children are always entrusted to their mothers, even if they’re crazy;
when I see a man claiming to be a woman win a boxing match;
when a man wearing a wig wants to use the women’s restroom because he’d feel discriminated against in the men’s;
when on television you realize that homosexuals are overrepresented because they need to shift the debate to civil rights, not to mention social rights, so people are distracted by the latest same-sex marriage with adoption included and stop “following the money”—ours;
when thinking of sex change as normal opens up further possibilities, like species change.
I agree with Gaber (song: “A Breed in Extinction”), who doesn’t tolerate displays of gay pride. In my case, my intolerance is due to the ongoing ideological attack, for the reasons described above, and has nothing to do with people’s private use of their genitals.
Usually, thinking about sexual pleasure obtained in ways that are too different from one’s own creates a certain discomfort, both for heterosexuals and homosexuals. Sexually intolerant people should reflect on this, if only they weren’t so self-centered as to not consider the discomfort they might cause in others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OKCiXmBofc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lili_Elbe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_Cat
“These two moments…Sandhya means evening, and sandhya also means the meeting of day and night. So there are two sandhyas: one in the evening, one in the morning when the day and night separate. In those gaps you can enter very deeply into meditation, and it is meditation alone which can help your witnessing self to be completely unidentified with all that is ephemeral, dreamlike. One day it is there, another day it is gone…only fools can go on playing with the ephemeral.
A little intelligence is enough to make you aware that the real search is not for the ephemeral but for the eternal. And unless you have found the eternal your life was a wastage. It was a tremendous opportunity given by existence to you, but you did not use it.”
(Osho, ‘Satyam, Shivam, Sunderam’)
Veet says: “It seems to me that the political objective is the destruction of the traditional family….”
Would the destruction of the traditional family be a bad thing?
Family is a source of widespread social problems (rampant child abuse, stress/illness, divorce, domestic violence, teenage runaways, alcoholism and drug abuse, etc.)
The family is the unit which perpetuates divisions of nationalism, race and religions — all of the things that are most ugly. The family does the work of transmitting loyalty to all these things.
Once the family goes, the destructive “family values” it instills will be gone — patriotism, belief in a fictitious God, reliance upon instilled conscience instead of intelligent consciousness.
It is not about MY family or my psyche. The family as an institution enforces a divisive identity onto EVERY child.
Perhaps one of the greatest crimes committed by the family is that the family does not help the child to really inquire. Family teaches BELIEFS, which are poisonous to one’s real intelligence, to a real search. It makes search unnecessary. The family conditions a child to a certain religious ideology, philosophy, atheism, political dogma, class interest, theory. The child is so innocent and dependent that he cannot say no. The child is so helpless that it has to agree with whatever nonsense the family is teaching. Once conditioned, the child moves into every inquiry with prejudices, presuppositions, with an a priori conclusion.
Everyone is subtly forced to be according to the ideas of others: Hindu, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Communist. The child comes with intelligence to see things, but the family makes the child mediocre. The family grinds down the child’s troublesome intelligence. The family wants someone ready to be obedient, to follow, to imitate, to reflect well on the family, to be “well brought up,” “don’t disappoint your mother.” A true full individualism cannot emerge in history until the sense of identification with one set of parents is lessened in society by structuring in wider childhood contacts in an extended, communal family.
The basic structure of the family is POSSESSIVENESS. The husband and wife possess each other and they both possess the children. The moment you possess a human being you have taken away dignity, freedom, his or her basic humanity. The family destroys that which is unique and beautiful. The family is a golden cage.
The family is the incarnation of THE AMBITIOUS LIFE. Parents want the child to have a better life than they had. It compares generations. The family teaches the child to compare grades with others or with yourself, to be competitive. The parents vicariously live out their ambitions in the child’s achievements. They give their children their heritage of unfulfilled desires, the incomplete ambitions.
But ambition and ego at some point bar the way to happiness, especially spiritual happiness. Yet, most often, the family neglects meditation and teaches the child to get good grades, “to be somebody,” to “make a name for himself,” which leads to sacrifices, jealousy, stress, etc. Then life becomes a tension, a struggle, not a rejoicing. The need to fight forces you into roles, falsity, pretending. This living in your social mask saps your juice, your joy, and leaves only dead people, skeletons, fighting for power, position, money. Life becomes a battlefield. And THAT is how messed up families are.
Samarpan, it depends on what you intend to replace the traditional family with.
I’m not sure if in the long run we’ll see any anthropological progress regarding children born via test tubes or surrogate mothers, raised by two mothers or two fathers.
Perhaps we’ll agree that we should hope for thoughtful and loving parents, implying the possibility for them to accept the hypothesis that nature intended a man and a woman for the birth of a child for evolutionary, not discriminatory, reasons.
In the esoteric realm, Family Constellation moves in the same direction as the traditional family structure.
I must admit that before training with Svagito in Pune, I was quite skeptical about the spiritual power of the entanglement we inherit from the roots of our family of origin. Now, I’m much more cautious; I would also invite you to be equally humble on the subject.
For example, regarding the news of the day I mentioned in the previous comment, i.e. how easy it is for those with money and influential connections to clear their reputations and get a child, it’s being discussed in more detail on TV right now.
I’m hearing that while the father is in prison, the mother of the Uruguayan child Nicole Minetti wanted to adopt has disappeared, while the lawyer who represented her burned to death along with her husband, in what appears to be a homicide.
We have a dysfunctional traditional family versus a wealthy family that associated with philanthropists who loved young people; old Bert Hellinger is stirring in his grave.
Samarpan, just to get a hint of your social and political sensitivity to decipher the codes of power of the world we live in, may I ask you how many vaccines by that philanthropist, first financier of WHO, Bill (hell) Gates, have you drunk?
Samarpan, just to get a hint of your social and political sensitivity to decipher the codes of power of the world we live in, may I ask you how many vaccines by that philanthropist, first financier of WHO, Bill (hell) Gates, have you drunk?
Those who have seen the horrific rituals contained in the Epstein Files say that if they were published, it would be a collective shock to discover the monsters who govern us. The risk would be that the entire system of institutional bodies, guarantors of the productive, financial, and media systems, would collapse, with private sector leaders themselves implicated in the same bloody orgies of power.
Some errors in the YouTube machine translation, especially in the proper names of people, places, etc., but what the author of the journalistic investigation (Minetti-Cipriani affair) says is fairly clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVtasLfMSFY
Samarpan, you are not wrong about the evils of the family, but there is also a good side, families pass on love and closeness as well.
Nityaprem, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that the same bad things Samarpan talks about could happen in non-traditional families, just as one doesn’t have to be blood relatives to convey love and closeness to human babies.
The important thing is to place abstract values within the correct ideological perspective, that is, to dig a little deeper to understand the real values behind those instrumentally declared.
Differently, it’s when the question of the best environment for educating young people is posed from an existential perspective, setting the necessary limits within which to encourage the development of critical thinking, starting with the function and scope of those limits themselves.
One of the limits that I think is necessary to place on children today is to prohibit premature exposure to virtual reality, to allow them to encounter and savor the sweetness-roughness of the limits of material reality (like playing football or climbing trees), possibly, when necessary, even that of a spanking, when it warns you-prepares you for the possibility of much more violent impacts, those that only happen in non-virtual reality.
It seems to me that children have a tendency of forming an emotional bond with the mother, and mothers form a bond with their children. That is just biology, hormones, and whatever Osho may have said about the evils of the family, it should be allowed to play out as it is important to the emotional development of mother and child.
With fathers steeped in sannyasin principles and aware of what they are passing on to their children, the difficulty may be more that not enough gets taught, rather than too much. Anyway, that was my experience with my sannyasin father.
I also believe that the mother-child bond, the original one that begins in the womb, is crucial for having a solid biological, vital, psychological, and spiritual foundation.
And in a perfect world, the mother begins to care for her child by providing oxygenated blood and the best nutrients.
Then, in reality, children come into the world who are unloved from the beginning or soon after birth, from biological parents who don’t love themselves and who perhaps weren’t loved in return.
This is where the debate about the best alternative destiny for children begins. I don’t see Osho forcing mothers-fathers to separate from their children, just as he probably never forced mothers-fathers who didn’t feel they loved their children enough to stay in contact with them… see the depressed mother who threw herself from the third floor with her three children (recent news story).
Sannyasin principles stem from a vision; they cannot be isolated from it. They are not rules to be blindly followed to please the guru or conform to the behavior of a majority.
I don’t think Osho was a person who instilled fear, emphasizing principles, rules, or rituals that disciples had to respect or face bad consequences.
I think the rules of coexistence were understandable, as long as they were reasonably functional to the shared vision of life and coexistence.
The worst thing that could happen, which has also happened to me, painfully, is that could happen that there is no place to stay in a given community in a given moment.
In the human effort to give meaning to existence, it seems to me, an amateur philosopher, that throughout the history of philosophy, attempts have become polarized between those who placed God, or the entity or entities emanating or not from it-him, at the centre of their speculation-searching and those who instead placed the man-humanity.
This has resulted in two traditions of thought, metaphysics and existentialist thought: the objective supremacy of a rational, eternal, and immutable being that gives meaning to reality versus the supremacy of human subjectivity in interpreting reality.
The two fields of research are not separate and incommunicable; far from it; they are merely theoretical starting points, where it is not uncommon for a metaphysical philosopher at 20 to become an existentialist at 50, and vice versa.
The limitations and intrinsic weaknesses that these approaches have demonstrated over the years, sometimes centuries, regarding the applicability of principles organized into a system of thought, useful for understanding and meaningfully experiencing reality, have been highlighted in both fields:
In the metaphysical field (AI):
The metaphysical approach, traditionally understood as the study of ”being qua being” and the search for first causes and supersensible reality, has encountered considerable criticism and limitations throughout the history of philosophy.
The main limitations of the metaphysical approach can be summarized as follows:
Kantian Critique (Impossibility of knowing the noumenon);
Lack of empirical verifiability;
Problems of language and meaning: since it is not possible to verify the correctness of the analysis of abstract constructs, what is stated loses its cognitive meaning;
Necessity of limits for definition (Aristotle): Paradoxically, the Aristotelian approach itself, while founding metaphysics, emphasizes that being is defined through its limit (πέρας), form (εἶδος) or end (τέλος), and that perfection lies in the finite and the delimited, not in the infinite or the unlimited (imv, therefore the idea of an eternal truth always valid for understanding a changing reality, confined within the limits of its forms, contains within itself a contradiction: it is not possible to know a part if the form of perfect knowledge of the whole is not first defined, which, being infinite, would at least take longer than the average lifespan of a philosopher);
Replacement by the human sciences: In post-Hegelian thought, the collapse of classical metaphysics paved the way for the ”human sciences” (sociology, psychology, history) and the social sciences, which seek to offer a more objective and nuanced reflection on humanity than metaphysical generalizations.
In short, the metaphysical approach is often criticized for its claim to transcend the limits of human knowledge and for the difficulty of integrating its claims into a framework of empirically verifiable knowledge.
And in the existentialist field (AI):
Existentialism, which developed primarily in the 20th century amidst wars and crises, emphasizes human finitude, precariousness, and the lack of absolute meaning.
Main critical points, both internal and external to existentialist philosophy, include:
Extreme freedom and responsibility (Condemnation of Freedom): Sartre argues that ”existence precedes essence,” meaning that humans have no predefined nature and create themselves through their own choices. This leads to radical anguish, as the individual is entirely responsible for their actions and their own meaning in a world devoid of divine guidance or objective values;
Anguish and despair: Existentialism emphasizes the inevitability of death, suffering, and despair, focusing intensely on the ”human condition” understood as precariousness;
The absence of objective meaning: The idea that the world has no intrinsic meaning or preordained purpose often leads to a pessimistic or nihilistic vision, where humans are left to construct their own meanin;
Criticisms of determinism and naturalism: Many existentialists reject determinism, arguing for free will, but this is strongly criticized by determinists, who believe the individual is conditioned by biological or social factors. Furthermore, the idea that human relationships are merely social constructs is contested by those, such as naturalists, who believe they are part of our biology;
Conflict with idealism: Existentialism rejects nineteenth-century idealism (particularly Hegel), denying the resolution of internal and social conflicts in a higher synthesis or in the Spirit;
Internal philosophical critiques (Heidegger vs. Sartre): Martin Heidegger criticized Sartre’s interpretation, arguing that Sartre’s existentialism misinterpreted the idealism of the existential world.
Now, it’s not insignificant to me that the humanity that comes to Osho is the same one that for millennia has been practicing, more or less consciously, the exercise of critical thinking, preferably logically correct, with a thirst for knowledge that assuages the anguish over the dangers to which the world exposes us.
Seeking answers in ethical, social, and political matters, for choices that often paralyze us between guilt and shame, between fear and the exhilaration of overcoming certain limitations.
The fact that in this small community, which gather us around the things said and done by Osho, there is almost never a shared perspective on reality makes me wonder whether the misunderstanding about the tantric guru’s teachings occurred at the height of his success and popularity in the 1970s, when many of today’s critics kissed his feet, or today, where, especially those who kissed his feet yesterday, are the most ferocious critics.
Was Osho a philosopher who provided the right answers at the right time to a segment of a youth protest movement that had strayed between politics and recreational disengagement?
Or was he a mystic who also used philosophy, with its paradoxes, to encourage an ecological use of the mind, suspending its judgment, observing its voracious intention to achieve truth-objectives that comfort the ego?
It would seem that a forum discussing the representation of reality, not just the vast and philosophically contradictory one proposed by Osho, fosters the same polarizations that have occurred in the world of professional thinkers, afflicted by the same horizontal malady.
A few months ago, another friend of Osho’s left us, the celebrated and sophisticated singer Ornella Vanoni.
She was ironic and lively right up until her last ice cream, enjoyed in her armchair at home before she died.
AI: “Spiritual quest (Osho Rajneesh): Ornella Vanoni often spoke of her inner turmoil and struggle with depression, which led her to explore various spiritual paths. Mystical experiences: In various interviews, the singer stated that she frequented the world of Osho Rajneesh and practised meditation. She described a search for an inner peace that went beyond artistic success, often citing the need to “entrust” herself to something greater.”
Her latest hit:
‘A smile inside the crying’
And now that I should pose for yet another photograph,
Can you tell me what the best shot is?
Now that with a selfie you show everything to everyone and let it be,
Shall we frame it?
Or shall I throw it away?
Words on notes have been my best companion.
To face stupidity, we still have joy.
If heaven granted a little grace to every soul down here,
I would be a saint.
A soul that sings.
That sings in balance over an emotion.
That turns people’s existence upside down.
That can’t be fully explained.
But that remains deep in the heart.
I am all the love I’ve given.
All the unconditional love.
The embarrassment behind the boasting.
A smile inside the crying.
I am all the love I’ve given.
Stormy sea and starry sky.
Just before a crash.
A smile inside the crying.
And now that you ask me to smile, I would like to Forget
Wounds to lick and great loves only to desire
If the universe disappeared in an instant and was no more
I would definitely
I would stay forever
Forever balanced above an emotion
That turns people’s existence upside down
That can’t be fully explained
But that remains deep in the heart
I am all the love I’ve given
All the unconditional love
The embarrassment behind the boast
A smile inside the tears
I am all the love I’ve given
Stormy sea and starry sky
Just before a crash
A smile inside the tears
And now that you ask me to smile, I’d like to forget.
Studio recording version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88pVkYtuaEU&list=RD88pVkYtuaEU&start_radio=1
Concert 2024, at 90 y.o., with some hesitation in reading the digital text.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Hw78p0tGo&list=RD9_Hw78p0tGo&start_radio=1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornella_Vanoni
Personally, I am not bothered by the idea of Osho using substances to manage his comfort levels, it’s all fine whether you take alcohol, caffeine or sugar, we all use substances of one form or another.
Speaking of sexual morality…
Little Epsteins growing up: Because in a world where double standards reign, targeting the reputation of a misfit like Osho is like shooting the Palestinian Red Cross.
A “small scandal” in Italy is coming to light and seems reminiscent of the same system of powerful people agreeing to make deals through cross-sexual blackmail.
It concerns the request for clemency from a former Italian politician, Nicole Minetti, to the President of the Republic.
The reason seemed honorable, given that the cumulative sentence of 3 years and 11 months in prison (in Italy, alternatives to prison can be requested for up to 4 years) precluded her desire to adopt a poor Uruguayan child, but in this case he isn’t not an orphan, so lady Minetti also needs to win a legal battle to remove him from his parents.
The former politician in question had been central to the boonga boonga affair, involving the exploitation of prostitution and the related Rubygate case: it was Nicole M who went to the Milan police for the custody of the 17-year-old Moroccan girl involved in Berlusconi’s elegant dinners, who was then under arrest for theft and lack of documents. The task of doing so was entrusted to Nicole Minetti by her Boss, Silvio, himself, after spreading in the police environment the fake news that the young prostitute was the Egyptian president’s niece.
Now, judging by the Epstein files, Nicole Minetti partner was a friend and associate of the Mossad man who perhaps committed suicide in prison, this man, Mr. Giuseppe Cipriani (nephew and namesake of the founder of Harry’s Bar in Venice, celebrated by Hemingway and the founder of a business empire comprising five luxury hotels in New York and Ibiza and about twenty bars and restaurants), has financed the Uruguayan orphanage where the child, in need of medical care, was being cared for. The couple, Minetti-Cipriani, covered the costs until his recovery.
It would seem like a beautiful story of repentance if it weren’t for a strand of journalistic investigation (linked to the US parliamentary commission anout E. Files) that reports that in Uruguay, on the yacht (Gin & Tonic) and at a very exclusive and controlled estate owned by Mr. Cipriani, the same social gatherings took place, featuring young models and the international jet set, with lady Minetti in the same role of “selector” of girls played for the politician-tycoon Silvio Berlusconi.
Now there’s a whole buck-passing between the President of the Republic, who initially granted Minetti a pardon, and the Minister of Justice, who signed the pardon request, regarding who should verify the applicant’s repentance.
Dedicated to Kavita’s friends, black belts in double standards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi_prostitution_trial
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Minetti
https://www.dagospia.com/cronache/uruguay-per-nicole-minetti-so-guai-i-siti-montevideo-si-buttano-pesce-472332
On the same topic, suggested by Mr. Iqba, with a slight variation regarding the direction of the attacks on Osho’s reputation, this time internal.
I was watching Osho in a 1984 talk, paying more attention to the tone of his voice, his facial expression, and the subtle movements of his hands. I wonder if friends who were close to Osho before the Ranch are seeing signs of a change in him due to any medications or dental anesthetics.
When I first arrived on this forum, about 10 years ago, a fact that was taken for granted, mostly in an allusive and ironic tone, was that Osho had become addicted to Valium and laughing gas, drugs prescribed to quell pain and anxiety, if not for recreational use, where everyone decides what is fun or not for them.
The sources supporting the hypothesis that Osho had become addicted to these substances were the dentist and the person who took notes during the sessions for what would later become a book (or perhaps more than one book?).
It seems a bit underwhelming to me to establish drug addiction from the cursory observation of a standard dentist appointment (30-60 minutes). I believe there are different tolerances for exposure to the same intoxicating substance, depending on physical constitution, frequency and quantity of the drug consumed.
Then one should evaluate the symptoms of that type of addiction, such as chronic drowsiness, fatigue, irritability, muscle weakness, dizziness, neurological damage, hallucinations, loss of consciousness…
From Sunyo’s book (My Days of Light with Osho), I don’t recall any indication in Osho’s behaviour that could be linked to an addiction, other than his obsession with Coca-Cola.
I’m not saying I rule out the possibility that Osho used those drugs, but the smoking gun found by those who claim the drugs created an addiction in Osho cannot be reduced to smug sarcasm based on hearsay. Rather, it should indicate, with all the available documents from Osho’s public life, where to draw the line between a before and an after, and how these two phases, if any, should be exclusively related to drug addiction.
Why shouldn’t this Osho be part of the “before”?
https://rumble.com/v50kukq-osho-video-from-ignorance-to-innocence-21-personality-the-carbon-cop-out.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp_v
Well, it was well known that there were three books dictated under the influence of laughing gas in the dental chair, these being ‘Glimpses of a Golden Childhood’, ‘Notes of a Madman’ and ‘Books I have Loved’. I believe they were all during the Rajneeshpuram period.
There was also a statement by Hugh Milne in his book ‘Bhagwan: The God that Failed’ that there were laughing gas canisters installed in Osho’s trailer next to his bed. So perhaps it is not only during his dental sessions that he was using the gas, but it was self- dministered. And there was a statement by Sheela on ‘60 Minutes’ in 1985 that Osho took sixty milligrams of Valium every day. An effective dose is 4 to 40 mg a day.
The thing is, heavy use of these kinds of substances does produce a wear on the body. Perhaps Osho was poisoned, and perhaps not, but it seems likely that substance overuse contributed to his death.
Nityaprem, I’m not interested in prying into people’s private lives either, but if malicious snoops use private affairs to delegitimize an author only to then have free rein to distort the meaning of his teachings, then for the sake of those who could benefit from that teaching, I have to ask myself how things really are.
What do you mean by “it was well known that there were three books dictated under the influence of laughing gas in the dental chair”?
Do you mean that Osho himself had these circumstances transcribed into books?
You use the verb “I believe” to locate the place where the transcription-recording of the three books supposedly took place, so you’re not sure?
The fact remains that your sources regarding the use of these two drugs are limited to two: Ma Sheela and Mr. Milne, two renegades.
You don’t even have a single source that claims Osho had become so addicted that the addiction interfered with his dissemination.
You yourself seem to be enough wary to say that at a certain point Osho lost connection with his inner light.