I am lukewarm about Arun because in fact I don’t want any religion created out of Osho’s work, or of Sannyas, on which he seems to be intent.
Lao Tzu, the first Taoist Master
All religions I can think of, except Taoism, seem to have created much backwardness and murder in men. It is not only Moslems who murder in the name of their religion, but Buddhists, Christians, and many more. I think that ‘certainty’ is at the back of it. Man is so insecure he cannot live with uncertainty. If his beliefs are challenged he just becomes murderous.
I see Sannyas as a religionless path and want it to remain so. All the outfits of organisers around Osho’s work are dangerous. That includes the Delhi people, the OI people, the Arun people and anyone else who considers themselves somehow to be “organising” Osho’s work. If any of them succeed in creating a religion around Osho, in spite of what seems to have been his wishes, then a 100 years from now, if humanity and the planet still survive, then there will be those who will want to kill in his name.
To “organise” sannyas is a contradiction in terms. But there are those who seem to make it a preoccupation of their whole lives. If one takes care of ones inner space first, everything else will follow, but it wont be what “you ” want.
I fear this basic spiritual wisdom seems to escape a number of people who consider themselves to be the organisers of Osho’s work, and they need to be encountered by it.
http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
Families who indulge in female infanticide have reasonably sound ideas based on their personal observation.
Parmartha is showing a part of that collective western mind on a table which has aversion for religion based on personal bad experiences or through leftist and anarchists thoughts in the society.
It also shows lack of trust in human wisdom and also sannyasins have forgotten that the leaps and bounds progress made by their countries have the roots in the Christian monasteries where best of the best in the society of their era were studying various subjects and contemplating over various issues facing man kind.
On the way to fitness on my bicycle, one thought came in my brain and I said, “Thanks God, million times thanks that founders of biggest brands of our time, whether in the West or in homeland are not influenced by the Indian gurus, masters and Avatars of last century.”
If they get some kind of spiritual nourishment it is from their roots and cultures and values. It is some kind of hilarious imagination that people who post Osho quotations on facebook consider themselves as seekers but will be hesitant to think founder of facebook as seeker.
The thought process continuous…
P.S:
I hope some bookworm does not take my last sentence and attacks, “You are still in the thoughts.” In that case I will say, Fuck the chap who is beyond thoughts!”
“I see Sannyas as a religionless path and want it to remain so.”(Parmartha)
A fresh and yet deeply inner familiar breeze has already acompanied the first read of this of your responses, Parmartha .
Good to see it as a topic now.
As I am also deeply concerned about the deterioration issue, how Satyadeva once chose to call it.
Of which some of them you named and on top of those…murder out of fanaticism.
TAO is a living ´thing, uncomprehensable by the mind , which we have to use to contribute here.
I loved Swamishantis pink graphic contribution the other day… the yin yang stuff.
Playful and light hearted.
Thanks for the topic to sit with it and to read what friends have to share.
walked
a cool rainy early summer night
adoring the rain drops on big leaves
translucent
this colour and fragility just stays for very few weeks
on some of them only for days
so precious
Madhu
Parmartha, this is probably the most truly ultimate – even though idealistic – thought about Sannyas, it seems very doubtful to accomplish this state of Sannyas; would be good enough even if 50% sannyasins at a given point of time get it, which too seems idealistic!
PM declares, “All the outfits of organisers around Osho’s work are dangerous.”
I do not agree. Dangerous is nuclear powers facing off, not an organization centred around a dead guru. I doubt that in a hundred years any such organization will still be in existence. Osho is not such a big deal in the world of gurus. He did his dance, left his mark and is no more.
To present a future picture wherein Oshoism becomes a fanatical religion is to project a myopic vision viewed through a microscope, creating the illusion that things are much bigger than they actually are. Osho’s people have always viewed Osho as being bigger and more important than he actually was/is. This is often symptomatic of spiritual egotism…i.e. my guru is a big deal and therefore I am also.
Agree 100%
Those who have passed, Lokesh, leave their traces in the living.
When I go, for example, to listen to a concert of some J.S Bach or a Mozart, I am sometimes in such an awe…and if then asked how I am going after the concert, and if the question was put up sincerely, it might happen that I say: “I felt that the creator of such magnificence was there. Alive.”
However, I will not deny your reminding us of symptomatic traits of spiritual egotism here.
You could very well find such also from the ´Osho-quote-book of reminders.´
As you probably know….
Madhu
I didn`t really do any future-life progression therapy! It was an attempt at a bit of creative writing, mildly comic with a bit of caricature, exaggeration, absurdity, incongruity…
Then again, maybe in a few hundred years, psycho-jihadists with memory sticks of the full works of SannyasNews tucked into their ammunition belts will be blowing each other away in accordance with the vision of the epistles of Swami Frank?!
Taoists may not have murdered in the name of the Tao, but still there is some history of violence – just think of the Kung Fu masters, most of them from a Taoist background. And they can kill a man just with one quick move. Bruce Lee was, in fact, well into ‘The Way’.
And not all religions have killed or murdered – just think of the Jains, who will go out of their way just to avoid harming an insect, and some of whom claim that their religion pre-dates even the Hindus.
Newsflash!
Osho Times 31/5/2121
In what appears to be a co-ordinated global attack by IS (Indian Sannyas), dangerous religious factions have once again thrown possibilities for world-peace into turmoil…
On the Mumbai to Pune highway, a tanker truck full of Bombay gin heading for the headquarters of Oshco corp. was blown up by militants affiliated to Arunakirti al Bhagdaddy and Alcoholics Anonymous.
In the Pune HQ itself, an attempted bomber by the name of Ali Iqbal Shantam, who claimed to be the great grandson of the prophet`s greatest disciples, walked into the Welcome Centre dressed cunningly not in an explosive vest, but in explosive pants. When he pulled the ignition cord on his pants his bomb failed to go off but his pants fell to the ground. Survivors agreed that it could have been worse but it was still a pretty terrible sight.
The management moved swiftly and trauma counselling is being offered to the victims at Rs.10000R per hour.
Meanwhile, in London, the offices of free-thinking magazine Sannyasi-Hebdo were hit by a group of men dressed in lunghis shouting “Osho Akbar”, “Red-bottomed baboons” and “Perfectly correct”, and made a series of unreasonable demands, particularly that they be taken seriously.
Editor of the magazine said: “I`ve been warning people that this sort of thing could happen since about 2015. It just goes to show.”
Frank is becoming psychopath.
He is not, Shantam.
Frank, really fucking funny, man.
In the FMCG (fast moving consumer goods) sector, Aldi, Tesco, Walmart etc. are part of organised retail. Does it mean mom and dad shops are unorganized?
Evolution of civilization is all about choices. Past Osho era, spiritual-based business is flourishing like corner shops. It is like when Harrods will go bankrupt because of family feud, many employees will open their own stores and shops. Those who are going country to country for their meditation camps, lick ‘n’ love groups, are like traders in Italian village markets selling salami and shoes!
And I am curious whether those who claim Sannyas cannot be religion have the honesty to accept Osho is dead and leaving the body is just a poetic metaphor. At least I am not the one who has ever said, “I feel Osho is in air, in the flowers. He is everywhere.”
Those who are happy with such kind of shoes and salami on a van, I am not against. Why the piles start bleeding if someone like me says, founder of Harrods Osho wanted such flagships stores in every main city? Alas, it could not happen but one can revive at least the original store.
Am I imposing my own projection or it was what Patriarch wanted?
To be true, if I have to create religion I will do it in the name of J.Krishnamurti rather than one Mr.Jain!
What’s stopping you (apart from sheer laziness) starting a Centre according to your own particular specifications and preferences in your own area, Shantam?
Although you console yourself thinking you’re doing some great, anti-imperialist, highly spiritual work, wasting your precious time and energy dreaming about and impotently campaigning for ‘regime change’ in Pune is tantamount to pissing in the wind.
One day perhaps, you’ll wake up and smell the, er…as by then you’ll be saturated in it, to the very skin and bone.
SD enquires, “What’s stopping you (apart from sheer laziness) starting a Centre according to your own particular specifications and preferences in your own area, Shantam?”!
Answer: Nobody would go.
Far be it for me to “define” neo-Sannyas!
All I know is that I am only interested in the inner search, and this has nothing to do with religion, all religions have hated such people. Also I am only interested in those who are similarly interested.
If there are others who call themselves sannyasins who want to create a religion, let them do their thing, but please disentangle people like me from it.
I am grateful to SS for the reminder about Jainism being rooted in non-violence, though as I remember there are sects within Jainism who do not talk to each other.
I am grateful to Lokesh for the reminder that within any movement there is always some kind of self-importance, some kind of ‘greatest thing since Jesus’ going on.
No-one knows how things will be in 2116; if the planet in its present shape and humans exist at all seems problematical to me. If it does continue I myself do think that Osho’s work and name will be there, and the sects within Oshoism will still dispute!
WHEN YOU ARE GONE, HOW CAN SANNYAS AVOID BECOMING JUST ANOTHER EMPTY CHURCH? IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT BESIDES THAT YOU WILL BE COMING BACK?
https://justpaste.it/uu68
Arps, good quote.
Plastic Oshos. That could be a good wee earner for Swami Arun.
Serendipitous as well. Read it this morning.
Reminds me of that very early ‘clarion call’ from Osho to his ‘potential people’, first seen, I think, in ‘I Am The Gate’ (1971?), something like:
“The Doors of the Temple are wide open. Such an opportunity comes only once every 2500 years. Know well they will not remain open for ever. Do not waste this opportunity.”
Great quote, Arpana…sweet fragrance of a rose…how fortunate it is to be with Osho.
We are fortunate to have connected to Osho, even if his Sannyas is not going anywhere in the eyes of some, even if only a handful of us feel this way.
Parmartha, somehow let me assure that this not any kind of deviation from the inner search. I should have mentioned that my 31 May, 2016, 3:43 am post/response was to your “to “organise” Sannyas is a contradiction in terms.”
But there are those who seem to make it a preoccupation of their whole lives. If one takes care of one’s inner space first, everything else will follow, but it won’t be what ‘you’ want.
“The Doors of the Temple are wide open. Such an opportunity comes only once every 2500 years. Know well they will not remain open for ever. Do not waste this opportunity.”
Surely boys from London, now cynical old men, have not missed such great opportunity. They went to Pune in masses! Bhagwan Shree did a good job to make a staircase in their inner coal mine!
For my part, not “cynical”, Shantam (nor, if I can help it, apart from certain current ailments, anything like an ‘old man’), just highly sceptical re almost all your confident-seeming pronouncements.
Ever considered consulting The Book of Changes? Might help you realise, finally, the futility of wanting to re-live your best years – and similarly, the waste of energy involved in attempting to create meaning in your life by campaigning against ‘the regime’ (not to mention the misplaced degree of responsibilty for your personal plight that you assign to those ‘imperialists’ out there).
Still, notwithstanding that, and much more over the years, I’ll follow Lokesh’s recent example (and I trust his positive response to meeting you in person) in saying that I’m far from being without sympathy for your plight, over there in Germany, 6000 miles from your homeland, disinherited (I think) due to your sannyas, seemingly pretty lonely and purposeless (otherwise why all the daily hours of effort at SN and elsewhere?), having done little ‘wrong’, as it were, other than renouncing the expectations of your family and culture by committing your life to Osho’s Sannyas at an early age, following wherever that took you, ie in the end into a marriage that didn’t last and a solitary life spent arguing with and being lampooned by a load of foreigners whom, ideally (I suspect) you’d like to be your friends.
So I guess you must feel rather like a ‘fish out of water’, ‘belonging’ nowhere, surely not the fate you’d have chosen when you risked all for the ‘golden years’ (Freudian slip – I wrote ‘golden tears’ at first!) of Pune 2, a period that I imagine, for you, given the binding traditions you came from, must have been akin to, or more intense, even more of a ‘revolt’, than going through the seismic upheaval the 60s and 70s were for young westerners. Maybe that might explain your apparent obsession with reinstating that past – impossible, of course, if only because the master has gone.
Let me also add that I even have some admiration for your stubborn tenacity in withstanding such a continual barrage of criticism and satire, which, despite indicating a thick skin of monumental proportions, with, I’m afraid, as I’ve said many times, a concomitant foolishness, nevertheless manifests a strong native warrior spirit that I’m sure would take you far – if you could only see things the way others have urged you to! (I hear Ladbrokes are currently offering 10,000/1 on that outcome…).
So…that’s All for Now….
“Sannyas cannot be organised.”
Sannyas is not a copyright product, just like Osho. Stolen words and concepts are free from organised crimes.
“but it won’t be what ‘you’ want.”
Absolutely.
Can you elaborate what I want in your deviated imagination? Let us make the facts clear once forever in case you are open enough to see facts and distortions.
MOD:
POST EDITED.
How many bloggers were there?
We are free to project our mind on anything, on anyone, but some humility is needed to understand the mind of the story-teller who created the script.
It happens quite often, “People who read the crime story know better than the eye witness and even police.”
Shantam delivers some hot news, straight from the holy cow’s mouth: “We are free to project our mind on anything, on anyone.”
Perhaps such a psychological rule may come as a shock to some SN readers. I also wonder if Shantam applies this rule in relationship to how he views the Resort and the people who run it. Or has he gained exemption from this rule, due to his countless sojourns to holy Mount Lidl?
With due humility I give an open invitation to anyone who was in Pune 2 to refute any of the facts stated by me in any of the posts in all these years.
Metaphors have my intellectual copyrights but the facts are irrefutable. Anyone can show my any dishonesty in the facts, I will apologize and offer 21 euros for compensation.
Basic impasse here is the discrepancy between Shantam’s concept of Sannyas and that/those held by more or less everyone else around here.
As I said in my earlier post tonight, Shantam’s personal situation, ie where he came from and where he is now, is pretty extreme, which, I suggest, explains a lot.
Satyadeva, let us make us like this:
You choose a shrink or a neurologist, we go through all the testing together. Let our reports be study material for the students of psychology and beyond psychology.
And in case I am diagnosed more sane and balanced than you, we can request Meera to go through similar tests in comparison with a non-descriptive Osho disciple.
Whether this be scientific or live in your own castle of hollow wisdom.
Another way of avoiding the issue(s), Shantam – so predictable, such a bore.
If you seek any degree of credibility, get down to specifics, rather than impractical bullshine. Tell me, please, exactly what do you object to in my two posts of tonight (7.58pm, 9.54pm), point by point. Otherwise, shuttuppaayerface! (as some Londoners would say).
Back on topic…
I have been reminded by someone yesterday that Osho did ‘Have’ an ‘organisation’ when in the body, so he did not simply exist without one, like, for example, U.G. Krishnamurti.
Yes, and at some kind of level, so also did Jesus. In the latter case – well, giving the burden of his church to Peter, poor old Peter!
The more mystically inclined people around him seemed to go back into the desert, and the inheritors of the Essenes created their own inward communities. But of course they could not compete with an organiser/evangelist like Paul, and one assumes they did not want to compete!
Maybe it is ever so, that there are esoteric and evangelical groups that grow up in the wake of such historical figures, and they will always squabble!
“…one assumes they did not want to compete!” (Parmartha)
Quite so! We are not in a competition. How can we be? Things change, anything is possible, and nobody is exempt.
“But of course they could not compete with an organiser/evangelist like Paul, and one assumes they did not want to compete!
Maybe it is ever so, that there are esoteric and evangelical groups that grow up in the wake of such historical figures, and they will always squabble!” (Parmartha)
Yes, there is something very insane about the squabbe=ling issue, Parmartha, more so if people feel inclined to go even for criminal actions in civil life with their nowadays bunch of dump facebook-followers. Or with methods one associates rightly with regimes like former Eastern Germany or comparables on the Mafia lane.
Something very, very insane!
Madhu
Shantam’s concept of Sannyas:
1. Shantam was not in the consultation team who advised Rajneeshpuram in India.
2. Was it Shantam who advised Bhagwan to board a plane and let us go for shopping tour in Canada?
3. Shantam was not the one who advised the master for the formation of Inner Circle.
4. It was not Shantam who requested master to leave behind his ashes. Have Buddha, Mahavira, Ramana, Punja ji left behind their ashes?