This Pune one extract from Osho features two well known disciples
One is Prem Patipada who was the most unusual member of Sheela’s gang. She even went again to Pune two after the Ranch debacle, and should receive praise for that. She was the only one of the gang who took up Osho’s invitation to reconnect.
The other is Michael Barnett (Somendra), the author of ‘People not Psychiatry’, a well known therapist in Pune one and an early candidate, for Judas, according to one Osho talk! Actually Somendra to be fair left the Ranch in 1982 and may well have had the insight to see what was incubating at that time. He subsequently successfully created his own movement in Europe, at the time called the “Wild Geese”, and always acknowledged Osho. His present website is at http://michaelbarnett.net He should receive praise for that. (SN)
Osho says:
WHY DOES TRUTH HURT?
Prem Patipada, truth hurts because we live in lies. Our whole life consists of lies. Friedrich Nietzsche has said: Don’t take lies away from man; otherwise it will be impossible for him to live. Sigmund Freud also says exactly the same thing: that man cannot live without lies; he needs many lies — religious, metaphysical, philosophical, political.
Just watch yourself — how many lies you need to support yourself, to go on nourishing your ego. Why does man need so many lies? — because the basic lie is the ego, and the ego can exist only surrounded by many lies to support it. Any truth hurts because it takes away a few lies, a few props, a few supports, and your ego starts falling down. And that is all that you know about yourself. You don’t know that you are something transcendental to the ego. Somebody says to you, “How beautiful you are!” and you believe it immediately. Nobody ever objects. I have told it to many people; nobody ever objects. I have never come across a person who will object, “No, you are wrong because I know my face. I see it in the mirror every day.” You say it to anybody, even the ugliest. Say it to a camel, and he will nod his head. He will say, “Right. I had always known it. You are the first intelligent person who has given it recognition.” Even the ugliest person deep down thinks he is beautiful. He believes, otherwise it will be difficult to exist, to live. The most stupid thinks that he is very intelligent. Hence you go on giving compliments to each other. All those compliments are lies — and everybody is ready to believe. And it is not only in the ordinary life. When you enter into your inner journey, there also you expect recognition.
Just the other day Somendra asked, “Why don’t you give me recognition?” Everybody wants to be recognized, told that “You are enlightened,” that “You have attained,” that “You have realized” — and you will be so happy! But that happiness will be only momentary because it is not true.
I cannot give you any lie; hence I am, many times, offensive to you, outrageous. I hurt you — not that I want to hurt you, but to take any lie away from you is like taking a teddy bear from a child who can’t sleep without the teddy bear. He goes on carrying the teddy bear — dirty, but he will carry it everywhere. That is his life; you can’t take it away from him. And you are carrying many teddy bears, Patipada; that’s why it hurts.
Now Somendra is very angry because I said that he can be a good candidate for Judas. Soon there is going to be a notice: “Wanted: a Judas.” And there are many people eligible. Somendra can do the work. He is so angry because I had said that he sits behind keeping his back towards me, so the next day he came to his old place.
Today he has disappeared, because today he has asked a very ugly question out of sheer anger. That’s why he has disappeared from here. Even though he has been sitting here for two or three days he does not look at me; he keeps his eyes down. He has not been coming to his group therapy darshan many times. Last night he appeared, but he did not look at me… boiling within. Today he has disappeared because of the question. He must have been afraid. He has put the question in somebody else’s name — but you can’t deceive me! And the moment I saw that he is not there my suspicion became absolutely certain that it is his question.
In his question he says, “Are you not a lazy person? And still, what chutzpah you have to tell other people to work and be creative.” I am not a lazy person — I am the laziest! And naturally, the laziest person can live only if others work; otherwise how am I going to live? So I go on teaching, “Work, be creative! Clean the floor meditatively! Clean the toilets!” That is simple. It is not a question of chutzpah, it is simple logic! A man like me needs at least ten thousand people to work for him!
And he asks, “How can you tell others to work?” For a man who has never done anything, everything seems to be possible. Even the impossible seems to be possible. I have never worked, not for a single day. That’s why I can say to you to do ANYTHING, because I don’t know the trouble. I have no experience about it.
Truth hurts. And then it comes in many ways, it expresses itself in many ways.
Patipada, remember, if anything hurts then meditate over it. There must be something of truth in it, something true. If anything hurts, respect it, go deep into it. Find out why it hurts, and you will be rewarded. You will grow through that.
Lies are sweet; they don’t hurt. So beware of sweet lies. When something does not hurt you it cannot become an impetus for growth; it is useless, not to be bothered about at all. But pay your total attention to anything that hurts, and don’t get angry. You are to understand here, to be aware, not to be angry.
Just a few months ago I told Somendra that he had attained his first satori. He was just joy. You should have seen his face that time — all laughter, all smiles, bubbling with ecstasy! That was easy for him to accept because although it was true, the ego jumped upon it, grabbed it, felt very good — and that is how he missed it.
When truth — any truth — becomes an ego trip, you miss it, you lose track of it. And remember: before samadhi happens, before enlightenment happens, you may attain thousands of satoris — and you may miss them. If one remains very alert when a satori happens, only then he will not miss it. If you become very gratified about it and you start bragging about it in subtle ways, you are bound to miss it. And many people are doing the same.
Sometimes it is very difficult for me; even if I see that something beautiful is happening to you I have to control myself not to say it, because there is every danger that just by saying it your ego may feel puffed up. And that will be the point when you will lose it.
There are many people who are coming closer and closer to the ultimate, but it is better for me not to say it to them. I go on blessing them as much as I can, I go on loving them as much as I can, but I don’t say it. Saying can be a distraction; it can take them on a different route, it can distract them.
So lies are dangerous; sometimes even truth can be dangerous. If it does not hurt, then it can be dangerous; if it hurts, there is no danger. If it hurts, it will wake you up; if it becomes a lullaby, then it is dangerous; it may take you in a deeper dream. You may start dreaming about satoris and enlightenment and becoming a buddha. And all that is possible — it is within your capacity, it is within your reach — but you can lose the thread many times.
Hence, don’t ask for recognition. If I feel that the time is ripe and by recognizing something you will not slip back, I will give the recognition. But why hanker for the recognition? The real thing is happening to you. The recognition does not matter at all, it is irrelevant. If you are becoming a buddha, you are becoming a buddha whether I say so or not. Sometimes it may be needed that I will go on saying, “No, you are not becoming,” just to help you go on in the right direction.
Patipada, anything that hurts, meditate over it and you will be immensely enriched.
The small cabal that ran Rajneeshpuram (the Ranch) were sometimes known as the Dowager Duchesses, especially after their fall from power!
Funny, because none of them were elderly, or had gained wealth through the death of their husbands. Maybe there was the association with widows who had poisoned their husbands to acquire wealth?
Anyway, they were usually ranked in the following way:
Sheela, Savita, Vidya – top rung.
Homa, Patipada, Dolma, Su, Padma – second level.
KD, the only man in the group, and Puja, though not part of Sheela’s formal structure, arguably had great power.
This comment is explanatory as someone I just spoke to did not seem to know Patipada’s place in the hierarchy.
I don’t think Somendra “always acknowledged Osho”, as I recall that when once asked about his inner relation with Osho (or opinion of him, or something like that) he simply responded with the neutral, “I am neither for him nor against him.”
That was some time after he’d moved to Switzerland and set up his Wild Goose centre.
Just seen that now he lives in Germany, in Denzlingen (5 miles north of Freiburg).
His website says:
“In 1974 he became a disciple of the Indian teacher Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho), and made a name for himself as leader of intensive seminars in Poona and other Rajneesh centres.
In 1982 he left this movement and set up his own Energy Field known as The Wild Goose Company.”
2015.
Let us talk about 1984.
After all, Sannyas had interesting characters in the past!
Ya.
2015.
Let us talk about Jayesh & Amrito or the politics happening around the world.
After all, these topics are interesting for Shantam.
I don’t really know, SD, but I can quote a source or two with a different reportage:
One was Anthony Thompson, who actually went to interview Somendra sometime prior to 2009 and wrote:
“Of the people who left that I have interviewed, he was the one more open, honest and in my understanding, more integrated as far as his sannyasin story is concerned. He did not leave in sweet circumstances, he was expelled from the movement and lost everything he had, but there is no bitterness or victimization whatsoever. He is just profoundly thankful to Osho, even for that.”
In the string at
http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/291
Do you recall, SD, the source of your quote?
No, it was some years ago, but I think I must have read it somewhere online during the last 10 years or so.
Or perhaps in a magazine?
Denzlingen is 7 minutes by train from my place.
Bloggers of Sannyasnews are welcome to have darshan, satsang, retreat with Mr. Barnett.
I don´t have much luxuries but a guest sofa and Indian food will be there round the clock.
That’s very hospitable of you, Shantam….Have you thought of going onto couch surfing for silver surfers (grey-haired webbers)? Plus offering home- made food! mmmm + Use of the internet?!! & conversations that go round and round in circles, plus…Astropoetry-cum-Cricket Score evening readings! Playing Spiritual Argumental, where you can argue in teams and swap sides if you change your mind! I can see you fitting a revolving door for the guests.
I’m always amazed at how small the world is in coincidences. Obviously, 7 minutes puts you in the proximity of the energy of the Barnettfield. Great!
(SN gets people snoozing …on each other’s sofas…hooray!).
Wise bloggers going to Pune can get a warm hospitality in my good friend Kavita´s flat. She lives 7 minutes walking distance from Ex-Buddhafield.
As far as “Barnettfield” is concerned, even if I am a next door neighbour, it won´t affect.
After all, there were next door neighbours to Osho property too. For them, Mahavira or Zarathustra died centuries ago was nearer than the man revered as master of the masters.
Surely, my heart is ready to be the host of Osho seekers flirting here and there.
Disclaimer:
Sorry, Bloggers, I used to rent out only until 2007 & I have not had anyone since then. I don’t need to rent out anymore as I decided to invest the money I got from selling my personal property & have been living off it since then & it should be enough for me. I am not in a sharing mood to accommodate anyone in my space; even among friends, only few are invited to even visit right now.
And Shantam, I am capable of making my own decisions. I am sorry if they don’t suit you or anyone else.
Kavita, take my post with some sense of humour.
Any of these bloggers visiting Pune? The chance to win Euromillions jackpot is much closer. It is 1 to 251 Million.
It means there is half billion to one chance, some sannyasnews bloggers ever going to Pune.
Shantam, I don’t want to take a chance on that, dear!
Kavita????
What are we supposed to do with the flight tickets now ???? Telling us at the last moment like this, after Lokesh had already packed his mothballed 1976 orange lunghi, and Sharia Dave had cancelled his neo-post-Swannyas training in Tobleronestein. Parmartha had even planted his begonias early this year to make some time for the annual charabang.
I guess we’ll all have to nip round Shantam’s for a desultory weekend.
(Tskkk, sound of clicking teeth).
Yours disappointedly,
Maybe you all should request for reimbursement from Shantam for making any offer in the first place! Btw, he is very generous man!
Oh my God, this hilarious sense of practical humour is the Hallmark of global seekers who once went to Pune!
Thank you so much, Parmartha, for inviting yesterday evening, to make a (re-)round on the karma carousel, and enter May 2009, just some six years ago – there is ´no-time´ indeed…
Just some deterioration happening, how Satyadeva sometimes puts it. Or is it called ´entropy´?
And thank you, Prem Martyn, for giving this very Sunday-morning your spices to that. As spiceousness as ever. (I am still in the digestion progress to what you posted some days ago, and thank you for making that effort too).
Otherwise, not only my mind but my heart is busy with the earthquake just having been happening in Nepal, and the refugees all over the planet – also here.
Being uprooted from all and everything is a challenge to experience just now; sometimes to be recognized and see-able, sometimes – not.
Quite some more as a device on what Meditation is all about, isn´t it?
Trying my best to come into the present moment, I would like to say ´hello´ to you all.
With Love,
Madhu
The entrancement of Osho’s language was always superlative in awakening and affirming the essence, that love, in each of us, in waves; the complete absence of any fear-trigger mechanisms in his promotion of the wonderland and states of presenting wonder.
That is the necessary complete antithesis of the legalised, incompetent politicking that is always prevalent amongst other terrified, fearful mortals, the disease of distorted, incoherent, social and genetic, assumptive relations of daily life, leaving dry sand running through the fingers of idiots who remain, as did Lot’s wife in Genesis, turned to salt for wanting to hang on to nothing.
There was, in the diary of Sannyas’ yesteryear, little or no prescription for a preventative remedy amongst us, the diaspora, given to the idea that you could be ripped off (or did the ripping off if that was one’s proclivity) even in 20/20 vision in hindsight. We just got on/do get on with that faith. Probably because that’s what faith does, in its entirety.
It made not a jot of difference to engaging in and with others. This is no failure, it is the very nature of interacting. One always moves from one’s inherent tendencies, and the only responsibility is to take responsibility evolvingly and ever lovingly. It is always the first time and it is always the beginning, and in the world of life as it is, surrender means exactly that. It is both the raising up and the placing down of all experiencing.
Osho gave me this treasure in many ways that remain inexplicable yet transmitted through and for me and each one of us. It is a supremely transforming quality in the contrastive world and keeps repeating by it and his very nature. Being blessed without claim is also part of our joyful inheritance and reclaims what our singular efforts tentatively illuminate.
P.S:
Clive James has written a poem, Lecons Des Tenebres (Lessons of The Shadows), on reflection and time and…
http://www.clivejames.com/poetry/recent/lecons
“Osho gave me this treasure in many ways that remain inexplicable yet transmitted through and for me and each one of us.” (Prem Martyn)
So much ME/ME/ME in that, Prem Martyn, and the last few words one could put into parantheses, isn’t it?
Well, I am putting all my social, psychological, ancient studying together, to just get your ever so eloquence, maybe get it after a few days, what is meant and what you are striving for. And therefore I first have to do a lot of dictionary work. Then let it sink.
Then forget all about it.
Then feel, if something comes as an echo in my heart. And mostly it comes; but maybe not to your contentment.
Also, I know I am not living that idealistic clean and pure life you are preaching and, maybe, also living up to (at least on the straight vegan path
The point I want to make here, that not all the internet-chat/internet-games may lead (interactive) to a good result for the whole.
Understand whole as holy, and holy as SANE. Sane for not only a ´ME´ or a singular entity, but for more than a critical amount (in a positive sense of the word) of contributors.
Otherwise, however, misusing an individual, for the means that a majority with ethical standards which MISS any sanity in terms of actions and so-called missions, is also off the wall. (MOD: THIS ISN’T CLEAR, PLEASE CLARIFY)
Quite a dilemma – isn´t it?
Ever sincerely, Prem Martyn.
Sunday evening post from
Madhu
P.S:
I was harassed today here by a bunch of obnoxious mean stalkers, very much but reminding me of encounter games of some Netherlands kind of school with a ´human´ flag…just to let you know ´out-there´.
There is no ME in YOUR chicken sandwich.
Some things are more relevant than others.
Thank Osho, this is just online-ism.
Standards about what is understood by majorities as `sanity`is changing rapidly these years and days and always depends on what morphic field you happen to be in.
Might tell you just one thing from only yesterday in a Munich quarter I’ve been in for years.
Got in trouble with two totally unknown young males here in their twenties, grinning, and we didn´t exchange friendly words, which culminated on their side with yelling out of their car with running motor, that I am a woman for them who prays to the devil, and me yelling too that a Taliban and IS approach to a woman is NOT what belongs on the civil stage here, surely not!
However, even though no woman here is to be seen with a burka or similar stuff, we truly don´t know here what the very close-by situated trade sex market, which is booming like anything, shows up with – behind the closed doors..
And sure, man´s fantasies about the female and the female aligning with it, is in big change since very few decades here.
‘Truth’ about standards and people fitting, or not fitting, is more than less the number of Facebook and other neighbourhoods’ social network accounts, taking its way in further street work games (like this one I mentioned) and there where I am living, every day is full of such crap to face from totally unknown people.
Psychopaths, male and female, are very playful buggers and perpetrators in the streets as in online businesses, harassing people totally unknown to them, because that chills, to capture reactions. They simply love it.
Psychopaths, moderators (as I want to spare you, to ask for clarification) are for me, people who GRIN when they make it, to shock you, and believe it or not, at least here where I am, many youngsters are up to that street work entertainment. As well as clearly their Facebook friends.
Family style comes along in new-old values and some of it echoes the Nazi regime here in Germany (with appropriate male fantasies about what a woman should be – when ‘sane’ in their eyes).
Women also love it. The child is a lifestyle playmate. Quite often.
Sanity ?
Christian churches and cults love it; as well also muslim brothers and sisters. Finally they agree, finally back to ‘normal’ with the ‘sexes’. Well, a lot of virtual thumbs go up here; and quite often it just plays out as an Eldorado for psychopaths. With a very special ‘taste’ for interconnecting.
What’s ‘sane’ and what´s not is a question of quota. Has always been, hasn´t it?
But not so thoroughly uprooted from experience, as in ‘Information Age’.
Madhu
(MOD: SOME EDITING)
Mad-You, hello…listen to this tune…
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME…
Sung to the tune of ‘The Nutcracker Suite’, by Tchaikovsky. You can follow it by the calm and beauty of ‘Swan Lake’.
Parentheses follow…
(As you want to tell me how to write and how You want Me to tell you how to think, and that what you think is what I was thinking…obviously, thanks for the offer, how degeneratively provocative of you…So I will…and this is for YOU, and your request for MY attention…)))))) That’s not parentheses, it’s just lots of MY gloaty smiles…
(You-Wait a minute…patience now…) & it’s actually sung to the tune of your German-speaking neighbour Amadeus (Love of God) Mozart in his Eine Kleine NutMusik allegro. Here is the tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb_jQBgzU-I
And the source of his name:
Meaning & History of AMADeus
Means ‘love of God’, derived from Latin amare (‘to love’) and Deus (‘God’). A famous bearer was the Austrian composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-1791), who was actually born Wolfgang Theophilus Mozart but preferred the Latin translation of his Greek middle name.
Parentheses:
(Very god, very love, very much the name, very clever music and very lovely effect…( )
AMadhueus, try harder…you still have a lot of homework to do, but I’m sure you’ll get closer to vegan paradise if you actually give a shit, instead of wasting time competing to defend the indefensible.
This way, you don´t convince me, Prem Martyn.
Adolf Hitler, a very well known, very strictly living vegan aspirant; non-smoking, no wine either – and see what accompanied this, his ‘purity’, on that side.
It’s also well known that he loved to listen to classical music before giving his next orders for concentration camps.
Also known how much he loved to be amongst kids. And ‘let the children come’ projects.
Some more to ponder over, maybe also for you, before you rage here like a bull.
Madhu
So you’re hiding behind the carnist propaganda version of a vegetarian Hitler (which he wasn’t ) against animals for your egoistic carnal benefit. How very Madhu.
Am not interested. Go away back to psycho-fascist pretend disciple of a documented veggy Osho and disappear back to your spiteful, humourless darkness. Fe-MALE.