Osho Commune runs out of energy for the Osho Times
According to Swami Chaitanya Keerti, former founding Editor of the Osho Times, the magazine founded by Osho in 1975 to propagate his views will cease publication from August. in addition he believes that the Osho International Commune is doing its best to keep Indians at bay. asserting the two are linked.
“The main reason for closing down the magazine is that the Osho International Resort, that has its headquarters in Zurich and its publishing headquarters in New York, is least interested in Indians.”
Keerti, who was the spokesperson of the commune before he parted ways with the management after a bitter fight years ago, said, “It is shocking and painful for Oshoites in India that the magazine will shut down after 34 years. I had started the magazine in January 1975 with Osho. I could never imagine that the Osho Times that had a circulation of over 60,000 copies at one point of time would shut down. The magazine was a hot favourite among Indians.”
Ma Sadhana, spokesperson of the Osho International Resort and the editor of Osho Times, confirmed that the magazine was closing down, but denied allegations that the commune was against Indians.
“The allegations that we want to keep Indians out of reach is baseless and are spread by people with a negative agenda. Someone seems to be planting these stories to spoil our name.
The fact that I, an Indian, is working in the commune is testimony to the fact that we are not against any Indians,” said Sadhana.
She said going digital is environmentally friendly and makes sense in today’s fast-paced world. “We need to cut trees to make paper and publish a magazine.
By going digital, we will save these trees from being axed. We will make the content of Osho Times available to readers in the form of a monthly newsletter and on our website. Thus, we can reach out to millions of people across the globe,” added Sadhana.
However Ma Yoga Neelam, who was Osho’s personal secretary, had a different view, “It’s shocking that they’re going to close Osho Times. This goes against the very tenets of Osho who believed in expansion and not downsizing. Indians will be very upset with the move.”
Keerti and Neelam are members of Osho Friends International, an international organisation said to represent Osho sannyasins and disciples world wide. This organisation seems to compete with the mainstream Osho organisation in Pune, New York and Zurich. Keerti’s says their aim is to make Osho freely available to the entire world. In contrast they also claim that The Osho International Resort organisation is patenting Osho’s works and motivated by profit.
Osho magazines and newspapers are said to be available to more than 100 million people every month. It is believed that the number of hits to the new osho.com will increase from 10 to 20 million overnight because of its easy-to-use search engine when the Osho Times closes.
We all have read the story of a goat in our childhood,the moral of the story is Grapes are sour!
The clear fact is that Osho world publications have taken the bigger market share, it is a clear knock out.
Caring of the trees; salt pepper and sugar packings at “Donald Trump Resort” at 17, koregaon Park, consume more paper than Osho Times.
When a publication simply becomes a PR of the adminstrative power of some organisation or the country, it looses all the independence, all the beauty, all the fire. Readers simply reject these empty bombs.
Sadhana has a great capacity to write like Keerti, but she has surrundered her pen to the Sahibs!, the British Empire controlling the collective legacy of Osho…
so there it is
indian religion
versus
cowboy religion
sunni asins
versus
oshi`ites
come on,lets have a bloody good jihad…..
It’s the digital age right. Forget about the trees, why not live in the 21st century?!
And if Keerti and others think guys like me are just young…. I’m 64 and was there with him in Pune one….!!
The Indian stuff, actually I always felt the old Pune ashram way back in 1975 was somehow in the wrong place. Fritz Perls stuff going on around an advanced teacher… totally lost indigenuously.
It was always an International commune, and hence it was not actually Indian at all. I think that is the core of the problem. Geography cannot dominate the work of a true Master.!
I think Keerti is just paranoid. I was there last winter when they announced they were not publishing it anymore. The reason? no one was buying it. the energy and money that went into it was too much for the payoff. I do not think trees are the reason. neither being against Indians.
I have never heard anyone speaking so much against Indians and Indian culture as Osho did: When the book compilation “India my love” came out everybody was laughing because they put in one book all the positive things osho said about India. If they would have published “India my hate” they would have filled an encyclopedia of 50 volumes.
The magazine was discontinued in 2001, but it came out again two years later.
It was just not financially sustainable.
anthony
Osho was hated by the Indian establishment when he was alive. Later of course they took him for their own when he was not a threat and dead! All his books in the Indian parliament, etc, now, but in 1980 they could not wait to see the back of him, and considered him a devil incarnate! And he sure was reluctant to return to india, visiting as I remember around 20 countries to try and start an international commune again after Oregon, but of course they also all hated him and thought him a danger to the young, etc. Just like Socrates!
heraclitus.
fritz perls?
you really are an old 70s guy.
havent you heard?the gestalt prayer has been updated….
“i do my thing and you do your thing
i am not in this world to live up to your expectations
and you are not in this world to live up to mine
i am i and you are you
if we agree,thats beautiful
if not,you`ll be hearing from my lawyer”
Indian versus western logic is nonsense. Keerti and Neelam should use better logic and more powerful one. Osho and His work and His people are from all across the globe. The policies of present day management are not digested by most of the sannyasins in a broad spectrum.
Keerti should feel happy on the contrary that the publication editied by Him has completely knocked out the offcial copy. It is a victory of Passionate osho lovers with limited financial capabilities but a heartful attitude.
Sooo it became an article…cool!
Hmm..So I never really liked the India Sannyas vs. Global sannyas things to begin with. It sounded very isolationist, nationalistic and political: all 3 things Osho never really stood for. So I was doubtful when the allegations came about early on.
But…when I took the trip to Pune and the resort…even the Indians were bashing Indians. In fact, I was most offended when an Indian sannyas guard told me to lose the Mala in the rudest way. The other indian dude beside him tried to intervene but the guy was on a complete power trip.
I know a few western sannyasins who felt discriminated in the resort from all the staff etc. Their customer service is absolutely horrible.
I’ve heard strange rules like Indians can’t swim in the pool. Which sucks, cuz if I try I’m sure they’ll try to stop me even though I’ve long stopped considering my self of any race. In canada we’re so multicultural, race seems distant.
But…even friends who are here that went to Pune with my recommendation have felt discriminated for being Indian. Unless you absolutely assimilate with the “resort” lifestyle and western flavor, you’re segregated to Indians.
I remember watching a documentary on the break up of Rajneeshpuram and Sw. Niren, Osho’s lawyer, went on a rant about Sheela. He started saying shit like ” first we have to understand Sheela was Indian, and Indians are lyers and decietful people”.
It was amusing! Sheela was probably the most non-indian Indian within Osho’s sannyas at the time (,living in America with a white Husband etc). But damn…he just went completely rasict at that point.
And how about this recent incidient with Dj Krishna telling an Indian girl that shes an “indian bitch” and to get “bloody indians out of the resort”.
Look at the many blogs about newcommers to the resort on google: all of them describe some sort of elitist white-washed environment. Even white people are offended by it!
I just remember trying a bit harder to mix in, and really stressing the fact that I dont have an Indian accent. Only then did the people in the resort start opening up and becomming more friendly.
I don’t know about Sadhana’s views. She’s always quick to deny anything wrong with the resort. Its like asking a corporate PR person about shit they’ve done, they just respond with a script.
In the end, the thing that seems to get anyone above race seems to be money. And if you’re indian and you go the doe to show it, the Resort is heaven.
But any genuine Indian, Nepali, coloured person I send down to Pune, I make sure to tell them to expect a bit of arrogance and to ignore it.
MY God
I hoped from previous forum thinking i am going to be the first… all the seven samurais are already there..You Osho disciples are really something
Anthony Thompson says: “I think Keerti is just paranoid. I was there last winter when they announced they were not publishing it anymore. The reason? no one was buying it. the energy and money that went into it was too much for the payoff. I do not think trees are the reason. neither being against Indians.”
No Beloved Anthony, I am not paranoid. I am simply stating the fact that through the Osho Times ( newsletter or magazine) we could always announce the meditation camps and other activities of the commune, the 200 hundred Indian centres doing their events, and Osho lovers could participate in all these activities wherever it was suitable to them.
And it is not just Osho Times only, in so many other ways, the management does not want such common people from India flocking to the resort. The management does not understand this variety of Osho lovers who are probably not so much educated or tech savvy, but through reading Osho magazine which was not so expensive and available at railway stalls and such places, they could know the program and participate. Now it will not be possible for them so easily, as majority of them does not use the internet. It is my experience that participation in our meditation camps is mainly through the monthly magazine Osho World, and it is so important even to those camp leaders who are supported by the resort, their meditation camp organizers have been getting their information and advertisement published in the Osho world magazine, as they know that without this publicity, their camps would have poor attendance. Almost 50 per cent of new participants come because they read Osho world or Osho Times. Stopping these publications would be depriving such new and old Osho lovers.
And beloved, when I am talking about this Osho work made to shrink in India, I don’t mean, I am being nationalistic. Tell me where else you could sell 60,000 copies of Hindi Osho Times? It is just like selling German Osho Times in Germany. When it is not published in Germany, then Germans will raise this issue. It is not being paranoid. It is simply stating the fact.
The other thing you wrote: “When the book compilation “India my love” came out everybody was laughing because they put in one book all the positive things osho said about India. If they would have published “India my hate” they would have filled an encyclopedia of 50 volumes.”
When Osho was in the body, He himself asked us to make this compilation, and a year or 2 later, Osho left his body. It took almost 10 years to allow this book to be published. But nobody could say that Osho did not want this book. In 1997 I reminded everybody connected with publication department: Why don’t you publish this book when Osho wanted this book published? You don’t take 10 years for other titles. It is the wish of the Master that matters.” So reluctantly they had to publish it during the year of 50 years of independence, and the current Prime Minister Manmohan Singh launched it. It was also a good PR exercise for all of us—including Jayesh, and to make his work easier which he was doing with Indian politicians. It was just like Osho Teerth park which helped the Commune gain positive publicity.
By the way, The Osho Times fortnightly was 2 or 3 Rupees a copy. Whenever we asked Osho that we wanted to increase its price to 4or 5 Rupees, Osho said No. He wanted the newsletter affordable to people in India, so that thru this newspaper they get to know the information about commune and the centres, and they could participate. Similarly entry into the commune was not more than 20 rupees, when one could come to Buddha Hall and see Osho, listen to his talk. And now you know how much you pay just to enter, and Osho is not in the body. It is discouraging to not just Indians but other seekers also who cannot afford it. Only a certain class is welcome. Now those Indians who have no access to internet, they will not know iin remote parts of India what in happening in Pune or in a centre in the nearest town. We see this happening near us so we raise his issue. You are free to call me whatever you may wish—nationalistic or paranoid.
Love to you
I never found anything Indian in Osho times..
It was Osho Times. Nice magazine..thats it
From where this guy Keerthi picks up his interpretaions is strange
he is always there to jump on anything which Pune Resort does and gives it a India Colour
I am beginning to think He is a RASCAL worse than all the politicians who play that kind of game
Tomorrow he will come and say OIF is planning to relocate PUNE to switzerland because OIF doesnt want the city to be in India..
Real Crazy…
Like Heraclitus told we are living in digital age and we can live with e-magazines
I dont get my payslip in office..I see it online..thats true with every organization in the world..We are moving towards paperless soceity
But see the way Keerti paints the issue..Damn
One thinsg i may gree is Money… Differentiation can be made because of Money..,. And naturally the visiting foriegners have money which Indians dont have.
What about all those Indians living inside the commune…I have been there many times and found westners very plesant… The indians living there always treated others badly and they were noisy
If that quality is making PUNE take few steps then so be it..
Osho is neither Indian nor western
He is too VAST.. Too Global…Too beautiful to be categorized like that
Cant we just access and ask OIF why they are stopping the journal?
If they say it is because of ‘Trees ‘ etc then let us accept it on face value
let us not try to give racist colur to everything PUNE does
I am sorry for that one word Keerthi…That is not myself
But i dont agree with you on other points..
I also it doesnt matter whether i agree or disagree
Whether you are Paranoid or not.. I am
I am very worried about loosing Osho connections with all these conflicts
There must be more meditative way to work together
It is so frustrating to see THIS can happen to OSHO
Beloved Kranthi
Please go through my response to Anthony then comment. If you are so “worried about loosing Osho connection with all these conflicts” then it is better not to jump into such discussions. Opposing something is equally meditatative. Meditation becomes impotent if one is afraid of opposing something. Osho opposed all the nonsense that has been going on for centuries. Work together is not the issue–so many thieves, politicians, goondas, mafias work together. Osho says he is the majority of one.
I enjoyed your judjment about me tremendously: I am beginning to think He is a RASCAL worse than all the politicians who play that kind of game
Tomorrow he will come and say OIF is planning to relocate PUNE to switzerland because OIF doesnt want the city to be in India..
Real Crazy… ”
I am a Rascal I could go to any extent…but only on April 1st.
Just wait for that.
Keerti
Thank you very much for the Love
I was feeling guilty for losing myself for that language
Thought exactly what you wrote about
how Osho used to be fearless in opposing things and how he says feeling guilty is useless
I withdrew and was sitting in silence…
Came out of that with such silence and bliss
Think life tested me with that ..
And with your reply i am more at ease
thank you for the Loving reply
I am greatful..
Keerti
Your reply crossed when i jumped into that madness
I agree that Magazines have their own impact in reaching out to Common man and i have also seen how people come to know about meditaion camps through Osho times
I love every single OSho times magazine i have for their content abd beauty
But i also feel inceasingly we will move towards digital worls whether we like it or not for the ease of use and environmental reasons
Nothing like sitting in a chair and reading an Osho book though..
But i am not able to see that as a step against Indians and that kind of stuff
Infact from whatever experience i have in Pune it has been the opposite.. have never seen anyone looking down at Indians… atleast as far as i knew
On the other hand i have seen quite a handfull of indians there as very nosiy , poking nose into others relationships , gossiping and even treating sannyasins badly.. I have had my bitter experiences
But may be you know better …of things which are not in the public domain
Until recently i never participated in forums as i heard Osho say not to use his teachings as a towel which we put on our shoulders..keeping it whenever we want and throwing away when we dont want.. I used to feel all the debates are like that
now i have a different perspective and i am ready to participate and express myself
I have been a critic of you on the copyrights issue on various forums.
I dont see how Osho’s vision can be spread without the help of having an organization and copyrights..
You yourself run an organization
Pleasant exchanging these posts with you
I am little more mature now
And the most beautiful thing that could have happened to me is ofcourse OSHO..
With Love
Kranti
OIF is doing what every business does: Reducing cost to make up for decreasing income. And if you pick a Rolls driver for your master you can not call for social behaviour. Additionally print media all over the world are having the same problem, a worldwide competitor: the internet. And the “Osho Times” was juts kind of a nicely made up propaganda paper. In fact calling it “Times” as an allusion to other well known democratic papers is just a joke, kind of camouflage.
We need change! The question is not so much about “Osho Times”, East -West, ect. Osho tried to overcome all this (obviously without success). The question is, why do we see so much friction and decline?
Osho is dead and no one can claim authority. If you are not able to renew yourself, existence will do it. Decline is the way of existence, to renew itself. If there will be no significant changes, the whole process just will speed.
As long as things are not handled in a democratic way, the decline will go on. We need inelligent transparency instead of dishonest politics. For example you find a vast majority for copyright free Osho audio and video downloads all over the internet. And this is not only out of financial self interest, it is because these things naturally can not be copyrighted, legally maybe, this is the same kind of criminal intend as to copyright genes.
The internet is not only a threat for newspapers, it is a threat to all centralized and non-democtratic structures. Things are discussed thoroughly and no one can stop it. Trying to stop this is just a confession of impotence and helplessness. The most important thing is not a resort, some trust or a institution claiming pontifical authority. This way intelligent people just run away as far a they can, away from all the politics and lies.
I was laughing Andreas..
Even when you discuss something which is as general as power of internet you cant help inserting a line like this…
‘ And if you pick a Rolls driver for your master you can not call for social behaviour ‘
You are as mad as i am.. I madly adore Osho.. You madly deny his contributions to conciousness..
Hope our pendulams dont swing..
I dont see the possibility of myself seeing anything negative in Osho..Not in this life
Not sure about you Andreas
sannyas used to be like a ride in a brand new rolls royce.
now its like arguing about the price of the fare in a broken down rickshaw.
que sera sera………
On Target Frank..
You Got it right…
It is a painful ride now..
Without the master even the Rolls look like Broken rickshaw
It happens to every Master i suppose
Seems to be a dilution of focus ..
Looking at the Finger which is pointing to the moon
The master is not there to give a hit on your head and say .. ” Look at the moon Idiot “
Kranti, don’t mind because we all have done it on these forums…but, I think you went a little below the belt on Sw. Chaitanya Keerti, calling him a rascal and whatnot.
My opinion on Sw. Chaitanya Keerti’s work is that he has opened up another door, an alternative, for Osho lovers outside of Pune. If you go to Osho Dham, they are beautiful now as Pune and as Aesthetic. Majority within are Indians, but you won’t find them to be on a power trip like the ones inside the resort.
And Osho Nisarga…A beautiful space in the Himalayas, another opportunity to go within.
And apart from Sw. Keerti, there are others who rebelled earlier like Sw. Anand Arun and Sw. Chaitanya Bharthi.
Sw.Arun has settled Osho Tapoban, a beautiful commune in the dense jungles of Nagarjun Hills. Its a completely different atmosphere than Pune and you don’t need to worry about arrogance of race etc. In fact, its alot more international in Tapoban because different groups don’t segregate eachother, its a mix and dance altogether!
My 2 cents..
-Amrito
My god Kranti, you are such a holier-than-thou type. All your devotion seems to have nebulised your brain a bit. My statement “if you pick a Rolls driver for your master you can not call for social behaviour” was a jokingly reference to Keerti complaining about the fact that there are many indians without internet access. And Keerti, beeing an old sannyasin knows very well that this argument is not suitable to make anybody in the resort subsidize “Osho Times”. Rolles are created not by sheep but by very creative people with brains. By the way, if you are interested in the subject, there is a book by Osho called “Beware of Socialism”. There is even a site on oshoworld.com about it, so Keerti knows very well and by experience! So it was just to say, if you, Keerti, ask for social action by the resort, I think you won’t be very succesfull. They just will be turning deaf on this ear. Actually I think Osho Times is not much of importance.
But! I agree with many aspects of Keertis work, especially about his engagement in the copyright thing. Missuse of power can not be stopped by devotion, following, surrender etc. No way. That’s nothing but cowardice and impotence. And Osho was talking about meritocracy not abot mediocrity.
idiots looking at the moon?
that reminds me.
you skinny dippin in a lunar sea
rubbish in yo mind pilin up on grounds of diminished responsibility
wakin up an goin back to sleep is yo main ability
wakey wakey.just say no to neo-priests
save yo money,feed your own beast
preacher teachers fleece sheep as they bleach
and enlightenmnent stays well outa reach
dont sell yo soul to a leech
get some self respect at least
get yoself to a resort with a beach
read yoself some friedrich neitzsche
meditate celebrate
dont be a thinkin celibate
love your fate
dont be an ingrate
raise yoself to a higher state
-get a life unto yourself
cos down here on the streetless street
where they turnin up the heat
we the underground ubermensch elite
almost invisible keepin it discreet
down in our feet and in da buddha `hood
samsara is nirvana mmm..good…
I think the main Issue, at least the way Keerti argues, is the idea that Indians are being bashed from pune. and that they are therefore discriminated.
I would like to show some light on some policies regarding Indians I had access to some years ago and they came directly from Osho.
Indians have always been the greatest population of people banned from the ashram. I worked in the welcome center so i know this first hand. what was the reason? they were, all the time, jumping on western women. they did not approach them in a direct or seductive way, but they touch them right away. the women complained and the head security Dyanesh threw the guys out. This was happening every single day. We had a group of indian sannysins waiting outside the wellcome center, waiting for new coming girls. We had to tell them to go away, but they were there the next day.
Manu and zareen had to deal with hundreds of poor Indians who wanted to come in for” the party”.
In heart dance the leader asked a translator to explain in Hindi that they had to be respectful with women and if they had to hold hands, it was hands holding not hugging, etc.
Most indians are deeply sexually repressed, because they live in a sexually repressed culture. One time a newcomer Indian asked if : ” you wanted to have sex with a western woman. do you need her conscent?”
I am not joking.
Most of what seemed like discrimination was in fact a way to keep all this in line. up to the year 2000 Indians, unless they were full time workers were not allowed into the swimming pool. Indians were not allowed into groups that involved physical contact. This instruction was given directly by Osho. I had access to a secret folder used in what is used to be the counselor´s desk at the multiversity, where Osho instructions were in detail in respect to what Indians were allowed and what they were not.
Nowadays most of these regulations have changed. Indians can swim in the swimming pool. can participate in some groups,not all of them, certainly not tantra. and even there are a few Indian group leaders.
The entry cost for the resort is far cheaper for Indians.
If you ask me Keerti, the place is far less discriminatory towards Indians now, than when you and Neelam were in the office. I actually saw Neelam dealing with troublesome Indians many times. actually they were sent her when they insisted in participate in groups.
Now I see it a great opportunity for Osho world to take over the niche of the Osho times.
so far so good
anthony
Hallo Samurais of Osho,
Keerti has given a a long reply to Anthony, but the main logic is not very convincing that how people will come to know about the meditation camps. Poor ones!
The organisers can distribute flyers, can give the advertisement in the national dailies, even those people can taste the mediattion who don’t read OT.
Osho World is still here and one of ex. editiors of OT is going to Launch his newsmagazine dedicated to the vision of Osho.
Simple fact is that the OT doesnot ft into thr vision of present management team. It is easy to outsource the Playboy but to print Osho Times you need some one who has some passion and dedication for Osho, to keep such people continuously on the food passes and Air conditioned rooms is creating some dependency. Once this hurdle is jumped the remaining few long term sannyasin workers can also pack their bags.
I just wonder what is the need for the management to attract any kind of visitors. let it give job to three to four hundred other Indians, there only work will be to meditate. And as they say Alpha rays rediated by the meditation will be spread any way.
In the early times, weathy people used to hire the mourners, they will scream and cry when someone died in those aristocratic families or the way royal women used to hire the professional feeding mothers.
As Andreas has written, ” As long as things are not handled in a democratic way, the decline will go on. We need inelligent transparency instead of dishonest politics.”
When Osho created 20 members inner cirlce like a bucke of flowers and instructed them to meditate at His samadhi before taking any decisions…(Ref. I leave you my dream).
Why for honesty sake we don’t take our clothes off to check the skin cancer….
As a matter of my inner conviction, i have written to the authorities at the 17, koregaon park, to restore this trasparent inner cirlcle and i wish to be one of them. Few of my fellow Samurais should also join+
“Polnischer Pater hilft Paaren, bei denen es im Bett nicht klappt „
Sex ist ein Weg zu Gott“”
Just read in a German newspaper, A polish Christian priest is telling, ” Sex is one of the way to God.”
This is Intelligence. When you want to reach people, you must choose the language what they understand.
Osho is the master of this art..
In Osho’s world those who have the organisational machinary at their disposal, their arrogance is too big to speak people’s language. And if they wish to speak, first thing is to use Osho prefix with their names….
Priesthood is not existing in Osho’s world, because priests are mafia of the soul. We simply become enlightend…. Around 228 enlightend sannyasins are giving satsangs all around the world. Thanks Heaven.. their turn over is still less than a donar kebab shop.
Amrito
I did hit below the belt.. It was a moment of madness for me.. i apologised to Keerthi on that and he has laughed about that.. let me put that behind..
Andreas: I am certainly not holier-than-thou type
I didnt understand those words correctly
The moment i see a post from Andreas i make up my mind to read some Osho bashing…
What to do.. Within such a short time i conditioned my mind like that
Yes Anthony
Although i dont have much info like what you have…
I have heard people telling me Westners always have trouble with Indians staring at them and all.
Infact i have seen lot of young indians coming there only to pick up girls..
Plaza parties helped to certain extent
Being an Indian i know how a Indian mind works..
Every Indian is a walking Bomb when it comes to Sex
Anthony you described the subject well. It’s part of globalisation. The Pune ashram just was ahead of it’s time and had to deal with the “clash of civilisations”. And there were other “nations” with problems related to sex and violence too, e.g. Japanese.
whoah,man,yeah,and the germans too…
it was only through my native wit and quick thinking that i managed to avoid losing my testicles on my first date with a german girl!!
Blame Indians for sex; and problem is solved!
when we open the windows few Masquitos will definately come.
In my opinion when we try to be extra smart, some creepiness creaps in. For example guys from my country were not encouraging their sisters to be part of the ashram atmospahre. Naturally f there were few courageous Indian girls, they were treated as premium.
Just imagine the same international gathering of Osho misfit people, but in Africa or in latin America, results would have been almost the same, may be a bit more chaotic.
In Europe and America, it is impossible to cultivate such gathering, the whether as a collective mind is to hostile for such experiment to take place. India is stil providing the most hospitable atmosphare to the people of other cultures.
Thats a good point Shantam
Thats the reason India always has been the lab for all experiments in Conciousness
There is no denying that.. the vastness of the knowledge on this subject that this country has provided is gigantic.
But the topic above is about a smaller aspect of sexual repression poking its nose in running the Pune center .
re. racist story from the resort.
i have also heard that the DJ who allegedly racially abused rinky bali,the woman from delhi,at the plaza party,also allegedly threw a severed cow`s head into the crowd,flushed a copy of the bhagavad gita down the toilet and started singing `gora zindabad` to the tune of “god save the queen”……
does anyone have any more on this?
so Frank, you obviously don’t buy this story?
But Frank
Even If it has happened it is about an individual conflict. Isnt it?
Unless there is evidence that it is common occurence and the resort doesnt do anything about it , we cant make anything out of it.
Are these kind of incidents frequently happening there ?
execellent posts by all.
commentary, insights, jokes, raps, outbursts, apologies, musings, rememberances, criticisms…
all top-notch.
Shantam. The issue is: the reason behind any sort of discriminatory attitude towards Indians.
I gave you information about osho´s personal attitude towards the subject. i can fill pages with this. It is not a matter of a few mosquitoes. It is a matter of a cultural conditioning that resonated in the ashram policies. Many times developed and supported by Indians themselves. such as Dyanesh ( the guy who was throwing Indians out). Neelam ( who checked the ones that wanted to be in groups) Manu and Zareen in the welcome center and Laxmi in the old times.
I´m sorry to tell you that as far as sexual liberation the indian culture is where Latin America was 50 years ago. i do not know about Africa. But i can tell you that similar measurements were taken by counselors of the multiversity toward Asians: they were not allowed into confrontational, Psycho dynamic groups. the very idea of validating ones own resentment against parents is against most Asian culture, including Indian.
My final point is there have always exist a discriminatory policy towards Indians in Pune: and it came from the big man himself. Western managers just did what Oshosuggested them to do with the Indian population. I can bring quotes and documents if you like.
Now, for me, the ability to discriminate is basically an intelligent ability to see what is appropriate in a certain situation. It does not mean necessarily a racist
attitude.
anthony
Infact Anthony , sexual repression is not the only type of repression here in India..In so many ways morally , socially , culturally every Indian is suppressed..
Infact i used to feel Indians are always under a minimum level of stress.. Thats the reason we have very dispropotionate reactions to all issues
We find it even find it difficult obey trafic signals or any other civic regulations
I may be incorrect as to the rootcause ..but that is my impression
Other cultures may not be very different though..
well, you are right, but I know of no Indian being thrown out for not stopping at a red light.
The discrimination of Indians in the ashram had to do with the Indian conditioning around sex and personal space. and their disruptive behavior around that. and all that under osho´s guidance.
Again, my point is that no one is being discriminatory towards Indians by not publishing Osho times anymore.
Discrimination has always been going on against Indians. for the reason discussed above.
anthony
franky, somehow you are starting to be predictable. I dedicatedly left the Germans out of the list on sex and violence, to give you the opportunity… you should have asked me before your date, german women are spoiled by womens lib. So I prefer japanese, traditionally repressed, sometimes bitchy, but better for the testicles…
I’ve never been to the Osho/Rajneesh Ashram/Commune/Resort in Pune, never even been to India, but I can say with ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, that…
human beings are sexually repressed and suppressed (and depressed!) everywhere on Earth, no exceptions. It’s because they are brought up in an unnatural world. Just observe animals and you can see the difference. The day that young people are allowed to be natural in their sexual desires at the time that nature intended, with all the consequences involved — pregnancies, motherhood, and new children — raised in a communal environment as Osho has so many times explained, you will not have these sex-generated problems. Either in India, America, or on the moon.
so, need to save trees,hmmmm…I AGREE !
why OSHO INTERNATIONAL does not stop publishing all osho books itself & brings the whole thing digitally like the pdfs that’s been hanging around on forums, torrents etc..???????
Am i too intelligent or wise ??
Much trees will be saved than a mere 60,000 copies of a magazine !!
)))
— raised in a communal environment as Osho has so many times explained, you will not have these sex-generated problems. Either in India, America, or on the moon.
Who has the first responsibility to create this communal environment, His people or the people who sit in the churches or the temples or in Vipassna..?
Few years back i was in Ashram and there was this American Beauty..
Like any other Indian i picked up a conversation and we just had Tea together
Oh! man.. You must have seen the jealousy burning in every Indians eyes
Wherever i went people started questioning me on my newly developed friendship and all that….
I would have got beaten up infront of Osho samadhi..I escaped.
I get an abridged edition of Osho Times every month online in my email — their Newsletter I think — and it’s very nice, well done, but it all seems to be very slick in a way. Articles with photos (of models, it looks like), usually the women are white women in power suits, and the men are usually white men in white shirts and ties, with an obligatory briefcase, or laptop at their side. Then the article progresses to the by-now time worn standard of “Stressed in the Rat Race of the Hustle Bustle Business World?–then come to the Osho Pune Resort and De-Stress, go swimming, dance a bit, “re-charge your batteries”, thank you very much, now you can go back to your high stress professional lives, make some more money , and come back next year, and remember, tell some of your yuppie friends too, that would be good.”
And they have some quote from “Elle” magazine from about 15 years ago, on how nice the Osho Resort is. They haven’t got an updated quote since then! And they identify Elle magazine as some British airline mag for their flying customers. And they throw in the Tom Robbins quote from about 25 years ago too for good measure, about Osho being the most dangerous man since Jesus Christ.
You would think the Osho Resort would be a little embarrassed by all this.
Is this what the great rebel Osho’s sannyas has come to?
God help us all !! Jesus, Jesus, come back bro’ !!
Shantam Prem,
Who should do it first? I guess his people, if they still exist ! They tried it in America for a short time, but…trying to create a communistic experimental enclave in the middle of the most capitalistic, nuclear family foundationed, controlled and managed society in the world, was….well, an idea doomed to failure from the get-go. Duh……!
I think Kranti points out my argument very well. I had an Indian male friend in the commune to whom i had to advise that to chase women who were not paying attention to him saying “Hallo, hallo, which country? was not going to get him anywhere. besides, women are very sensitive to the underling sexually repressed energy and escape from that like the wind.
I actually recommended him to jerk off before coming to the commune that would give him a more relaxed outlook. and perhaps his chances would get better.
Oshobob. the printed Osho times was a slightly less sticky than the e-version… and portrayed lots of Indian people, mostly young. But as Osho himself once discribed it: it was a propaganda magazine. Intended to spread Osho´s vision to non sannysins, nothing more. If you ever wanted magazine for sannyasins… Then Viha connections would have been the option.
anthony
andreas,
so you prefer donkey dick soup to bratwurst?
me too.
amrito,
i am careful about believing what i read in the papers.
`mid-day`,the erstwhile pune publication that ran this article,also advertises for sale: “paki joke” t-shirts.
that is,t-shirts with jokes printed on the front,(with a cartoon “paki” )like:
what is difference between a paki and a vacuum cleaner?
you have to plug in a vacuum cleaner before it sucks.
but,i can imagine some europeans in the resort saying such a thing about indians.especially if a bit of booze is involved.i have heard this kind of stuff.
the world is a kaleidoscope tho`
i can remember being taken in by poor indian people when i was wandering around india years ago and sleeping rough..they invited me in,gave me food shelter.they laughed,and communicated with me like kids.
i thanked them very much .they said:it`s nothing,of course if they were in my country,my people would do the same.
i felt deeply embarrassed. i thought of the reality of what the reaction of an english famly would have been to finding a scruffy indian guy crashed out outside their front door!!!
but Amrito, it is more than your “2 Cents” you are offering — tho that’s a cute sign-off….
You are a blatant PR machine for the whole Indian neo-neo sannyas scene — applauding and lauding everything Osho-Indian, from the Indian centers to Arun in the West. The fact that you had pre-knowledge of this thread starting exactly as your blessed Acharya Arun’s jet is landing in NYC for his month-long US/Canada juggernaut, does not go unnoticed, at least by my eyes. “Cool”, you say….well I’m sure it is for you anyway…
I hope Arun has a great tour, I actually like the guy. And his Tapoban site linked to mine 2 years ago in a blink of an eye, very quick, very ….uh, un-Indian. Gotta love him!
But still, Arun’s style will never cut the mustard in the West, except with a handful of young Indian expats like yourself and friends, yuppies in the New World, so to speak, looking for a connection to the Old World and it’s traditions. It is ‘nickel and diming’ your way along, in a freeway society. I think it’s good as far as it goes, but, in reality, it doesn’t go very far. Too limited, culturally speaking. Malas, sannyas intitiation ceremonies, satsangs with a white-bearded paunchy guy from Nepal, with squeeky-clean IT and science youth from the Mother Country….well, in the US, this will not really grip the attention of the people. America (which includes Toronto, whether you like that or not), is basically a hard-edged, cynical, rather sophisticated, and quite non-Indian society.
Good luck to Arun and his tour though, I wish him all the best. But, too, he seems to be tired a bit of the whole thing, by his own admission — he’d rather just stay in Nepal and relax and meditate. But someone told him to do this….I think his name starts with an O and ends with an O……….
btw, can you give us some info on how Arun’s Tapoban got some of Osho’s body parts to make a bona-fide “Samadhi” in Nepal. That’s really interesting to me…..!!!
hey frank, tho you seem to be obssessed with this “donkey dick soup” thing, if you look back to my original post on it, I mentioned cat-meat soup and dog-meat soup, but not donkey-dick soup. I said “boiled donkey dick.”
There’s a difference.
They just put the whole boiled donkey-dick on your plate,
d.d. con’t…..
….. and then, in Chinese, say “Enjoy!”
If you can’t handle it, then a very pretty Chinese girl waitress will come, and cut it into slices for you, so you can eat it.
Even if you are feeling a little squeemish about the whole thing, as the British are sometimes, the prettiness of the girl waitress will balance out the whole experience, and at least you’ll be full, in a neutral sort of way…
amrito,
you could try and get arun on `america`s got talent`.
did you see that laughing monk guy on there?
he was crap.
surely arun could beat him?
and dont forget,even egghead tolle,the enlightened german garden gnome(??!!) managed to get oprah singing his praises on US primetime!!
oshobob,
oh,i can handle it alright.it`s just that i prefer the donkey dick in a jumbo sesame bun with ketchup and mayonaise with a side dish of deep-fried dogs` bollocks.
ketchup and mayonaise are not real big in China, so you’de probably be outta luck there frank, but the dog parts — no problem. Even if they didn’t have it handy in the kitchen, to please a wandering “laowai” like yourself, they’d just go outside and collar the nearest dog running on the streets, and, well …. I’m sure you can fill in the rest……
To be honest, the food in China is delicious, you just have to get….uh….’used to’…some of the less well known local dishes.
that’s right frank, about US television, but what most non-Americans don’t realize, is that no one here takes any of these shows too seriously. Just a non-ending circus show. Americans are way too jaded to take in anything Oprah says without snickering. Tolle is a joke. With his namby-pamby sweater vests, and worthless new-age talk, he should spend some good quality time in an old-fashioned Chinese Zen monastery, with a master like Mazu — Tolle would come to his senses real quick. Mazu would give him a dose of the ‘power of now’ that “Ecky” wouldn’t soon forget….
I have taken the cutting below from a political essay dealing with the defeat of BJP in the Indian elections.
Instead of BJP, think OCI ( Osho commune International)and insetad of LK, think AJ (Amrito Jayesh)
“Can you please name for me two people who are LK’s equals within BJP, in LK’s vision? LK’s desire to stand as a tallest leader made him choose only pygmies for all critical positions in the party. The only way that one could rise up in BJP with LK at helm was to act as a subservient spineless dwarf.
The problem with dwarfs is that while they are very good for boosting one’s ego, they have limited use when one faces a war-like situation. ”
Once my senior fellow travelers AJ realise that somewhere something has gone wrong and try to find the solution in an holistic way,
if Jayesh and Neelam can meditate together and hug as it was once, once again if Keerti and Sadhna, Amrito and Satya Vedant sit in the same offices, we will be able to offer the unique prospective to the world.
Without that happening, we are the broken test tubes in the laboratory of consciousness.
In that case non meditatives like Barak Obama or Angela Markel or Manmohan Singh seem to be a winning bet. They are dealing with hundred time complex problems without doing any Vipassana or no mind or Path of love…
well shantam. If what you want would happen, if keerti, neelam and vedant would sit there again, we would have again a bunch of huge tough looking Sikhs singing in a high pitch voice: “Osho we miss you so much”!, as it once was…
Not the kind of place I would go for my vacations… as i do now
anthony
I´d rather eat boiled donkey dick…
sliced, please!
alrite here I go… I’m droppin one…
::Boka mystiks in the house:::
uh uh..what..
So I’ll let you cartoons know, I’m a fan of Arun yo,
rep my Maroon robe and fart on you old foes!
In the sannyas world, or the sannyasnews,
There’s one sannyas girl, and 100 sannyas-dudes,
It qutie the full-monty, Just Swamis, no Ma Jees,
Who would ever think “Kranti” is Swami?
Every other dude was going for that Punani,
Frankie’s got the vision, acidified religion,
drop-ur-pants-man, seems to be the mission..
Osho Bob, quite the knob,
Claims to be Zen Master,
But really deosn’t have a job !
Shantam does some Astro, hez got some crazy cash flow!
I dont want his service if I can’t get no ASS-YO!
Jayesh is the crook while Anthony cooks his books..
enough for today….
ok, ok, see there, we smoked ya out a bit, Boka M.
keep it comin, don’t be shy now, school’s out,
you’re in the big leagues now….
drop another
lay it on the table bro’……uh huh, uh huh…..
yea they call me Boka,
a mix of Eminem and some Deepak Chopra..
My flow is gonna smoke ya,
make your kundalini rise like a mother- fuckin cobra!
My chakras explodin, enlightenment unfoldin,
I’m waiting for my phone call, to confirm I’m in the ocean…
Shailendra calls me up, gives the green-light,
I can call myself an Osho..increase my fees like overnight!
Now I;ve got myself a beard, and some dumb disciples,
Need to up my game, re-use and recycle–some of Osho’s discourses–then ship em out like Bibles!
So Now I’ve got my target in this Guru Market,
Need some of them whities, finish off what Osho started!
Indianz can be lazy, many of them are shady,
they looking at my chair and wannabe-me ITS CRAZY!
The whities wanna fight-me, just trying to excite me,
I’m looking in their eyes, they pretendin they dont like-me..
I play sum telepathy: just tryna make ‘em happy,
they don’t gotta touch my feet,
Just my bank-book and I’M HAPPY…
hey yo
dats beauty
here in chile
trying to honor you
I try to rap like a cave man
althou I am 64,
still I appreciate yo folk
boka man., big man
like the one… one
My god that was awful
I´ll have some donkey dick now
ha, ha
My God.
You guys still dont belive Kranti is Male.
Kranti’s full name is Swami Kranti Devapatha
Sannyas name ofcourse
Shantam
I liked your vision of ” if Jayesh and Neelam can meditate together and hug as it was once, once again if Keerti and Sadhna, Amrito and Satya Vedant sit in the same offices, we will be able to offer the unique prospective to the world.”
I also posted a similar thought earlier
Irrespective these pessimistic guys i still think that will result in far better result for Osho’s work than anything that is happening now
Infact i will want to start a fesh article and throw a queston or challenge to people like Sw.Keerti why they cant do that
He himself tellS working together is not an issue. He says even mafia works together..THEN WHAT IS STOPPING THEM?
IF all these so called intelligent Oshites cant put aside issues and come together then what is the point of calling themselves Discples of Osho?
Hi Shantam
Question. Forgive me if i sound too dumb. How do you start a new topic/article?
Hey guys, great if you feel a bit younger and more vital by writing mean raps for a peotry slam no one reads. But a club of retirees won’t change anything, by dreaming about boiled donkey dick and enlightenment, reading the old propaganda in the osho times they don’t believe in anyway while secretly looking after the old girls at the pool who have had their menopause in the last century…
shantam, got a good point here… those outside the oshoworld are running the real show… and holy Kranti is right too… what is the point of calling yourselves disciples of osho (except the prof. who is bit too clever to do that) if all the meditation and therapies just lead to everybody being in conflict with everybody else…
Kranti,
For starting a new article on this website, write first to the
Info@sannyasnews.com
Editors have definately the veto power to check if it is worth as an article. We all have diagnosed the problem let us write to find the solutions.
As Andreas wrote on the previous thread, Sannyasnews is not started by the Poona people but two sannyasins from England.
It shows the arrogance and the dumbness of the main organisation. Eevn white house and 10, drowning street keep the ears open, what volks are thinking feeling, doing. If Dr. Amrito or someone from the management commatee is reading these posts, they should feel the passion, they should create a page on the official website for intelligent discussion.
Osho was compassionate enough not to leave any one successor, the way many traditions do. He has left us to take initiatives out of our own eyes… and we few people on these pages are honestly trying for this.
I hope few more will bring their heart out..
corection
The e mail address of sannyasnews is
edit@sannyasnews.com
Heartfelt Thanks Shantam and Andreas
Let us start something..And let Life takes its course
If we all Oshoitse have to become History just because few Individuals who were with Osho , who breathed Osho cant drop their egos and come together
and give a fresh impetus to Osho’s vision
Hi All
I have written to Editors to start a new article..
To me it is an Invitation to everyone to make a positive beginning
I am just hoping someone who can make a change will understand..
Thank you all for sharing.
His Love and Blessings to you all
With Love
Kranti
How long it will take for Editors to post a new thread.
Couldnt wait to see..
thus spake rockythustra (part 1)
by
frankrick nietzsche
at the age of thirty-something rockythustra went up in to the mountains
and lo,he built his log cabin.and exceedingly happy in his solitude he was.
then one day,after 10 or 20 years he began to tire of his solitude,
“i am weary of my wisdom,i need outstretched hands to take it”
so he got up, flicked on his computer and logged on to sannyas news.
at first he was shocked-
“could it be that no one has told these people that osho is dead?” he asked.
then he chilled a bit,started reading rap poems,had a bowl or two of donkey dick soup,pulled the zenstick out of his ass,and allowed himself a little laugh.,and even cracked a couple of jokes himself,in a sour kraut kind of a way…..
“i love the despisers”,he said,”because they are the great adorers and arrows of longing for the other shore…..”
thus began rockythustra`s downgoing…
amrito,
that`s dope,man
great stuff
you are in the same league as tupac.
tupac chopra,for sure…
btw,what happened to keerti?
you dont hear much of him since tony claimed that he and his gang of fellow natives he had probably booted out more “indians”from the resort than the whiteys.
according to tony, the biggest “racist” turns out to be the indian chief himself.
well well.i wonder what keerti would say to that?
not much,i`ll wager.
yea, amrito I like it too, but tupac is dead like osho…
ok
amrito is oshoman.
the album:oshoholic
If the album is on the market tell me…
I don’t know what you are up to Kranti in your article, but thousands have tried for change. You don’t have a chance. But us it! If you manage I will put on my sannyas name again and even get me a stupid hat… so good luck. But it was the boss behind it, not Sheela, he wanted it like this. Osho just thought dictatorship was the most effective way. But the results and the last century as a whole prove dictatorship is a barrel burst! The silly thing is, who is able to change anything now… as osho “never died”?.
Frank, I do not think osho was a racist. But he liked dictatorship and the indians just were not effective in the business. And remember frankrick nietzsche is also a kraut. Krauts are good at dictatorship…
Even in zen moasteries they are changing. I for e.g. met Bernie Glassman aka Tetsugen Bernard Glassman. If he came in he said, hi I am Bernie and behaved like that. During the last years he “disrobed,” and started to play as a clown in the streets. Before he had founded a huge and succesfull bakery with homeless, doing retreats in concentraion camps etc… I can hear all of you murmuring “that’s not oshos style”, ok, but it’s up to date and alive and changing and growing…
Change will come when the inherited capital and the interest thereof is spent. Meanwhile it’s good to get your own shop running… so rockythustra is quiet relaxed, just waiting…
Andreas
I understand what you are saying
I am a nobody..just posting message in a forum thinking few people will read..I dont believe Kranti a small town guy can one day just wake up and post a message in forum thinking that things will change
It will be an Illusion like any other
If at all some change happens to resolve ongoing conflicts it has to be a Keerti or Amrito or Jayesh who all have capacity and position to make changes happen, if there is a need for one.. May be they think there is no need for a change except some adjustments in copyright related issues.. you never know
Those guys certainly know better what is possible and what not than a bunch of guys sharing thoughts in a forum
they certainly can decide on a viable organizational model for running all the Osho communes
Osho said 100 years from now major part of humanity will be in aposition to follow what he was saying
But the infrastructure to keep His vision alive needs to be there in order for that to happen
Osho’s vision and ideas were too big and the infrastructure also needs to be big enough to support that vision.
It has to go beyond few Osho centres
for more boka mystiks visit:
http://www.soundclick.com/bokamystiks
Props.
Amrito
“what happened to keerti?
you dont hear much of him since tony claimed that he and his gang of fellow natives he had probably booted out more “indians”from the resort than the whiteys.”
Frankly speaking, I had held no such position to ban anybody. I was not even a front man like today is Beloved Dhyanesh, who gets all the shit for banning others, and who merely orders from the “whiteys” you have mentioned. Dhyan gets all the condemnation of being in power trip, while he simply follows the orders from above, because in fact ( in fiction) all foreigners are tourists and hold no position in the commune, as a matter of fact ( fiction) they don’t live inside the premises!
People who donot live inside the commune, they ban others. It is all maya, an illusion.
You guys are flat out wrong, thinking that change will come to Osho’s vision when the old timers start being friends and hugging each other again. No one gives a hoot about any of that shit.
Change always comes from the young people.
Always.
You are right oshobob, but do you know what the youngster think? They give a damn shit on enlightenment, they have other problems. The word is staggering and the will have to live, when we old farts are in our graves. 10 billion people, no more oil, wars for energy, food and water, climate change etc, etc, all the nice rubbish we will leave to them… but oshoites are not at all pondering about this, they are babbitts, out for holidays and astrolgy.
Dear Kranti, don’t be so obidient, they just wil make mash mush of you. We are all nobodys, even osho. And infrastructure needs not to be big at all, spirit needs to be big. No one knows how these things work, its about improvising as it happens. And as Mojud, get out of this small town (if you don’t know the story of Mojud, find out, osho talked about it).
In response to Anthony’s posting on June 12, 8:50 pm:
Dear Anthony,
Thanks for mentioning that the Viha Connection magazine is an Osho magazine, dedicated to sannyas and sannyasins, their stories, lives, and experiences. After 23 years we are still going strong. You can check our website, oshoviha.org/connection. Although we have not posted any recent issues there, the magazine still exists (in print!).
Love, Dhanyam
Keerti, you write: “Dhyan gets all the condemnation of being in power trip, while he simply follows the orders from above”.
Are you serious? Everybody is responsible for his own actions. Being told to do things never ever frees anybody for the responsibility of his or her acts or omissions. If Dhyanesh does not agree to the orders given, he must object or sign responsible. Is this kind of obidience still what is happening in Pune? I am shocked, I just can’t believe it.
Keerti, good to see you’re up and about…as long as we’ve got you, how about turning the subject to something I think is far more important than all of this — Osho audio discourses on your site http://www.oshoworld.com. It’s been 5 weeks now since you have pulled down the entire mp3 pages of Osho’s talks, both in Hindi and English. You have not given any updates on what is the current situation on that, and when the world at large can, if ever, expect to have access to those jewels again.
How about writing a quick post here at sannyasnews before you knock off for the night there in India — it would be a “you heard it here first on sannyasnews”, that would be a historic post, overshadowing any of the claptrap we write here.
How ’bout it pal….? Any news for us?
Thanks in advance
oshobob
communication is getting directionless
And then the fight started…Simple ways..there or here…
My wife sat down on the couch next to me as I was flipping channels.
She asked, ‘What’s on TV?’
I said, ‘Dust..’
And then the fight started.
My wife and I are watching “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire” while we were in bed. I turned to her and said,
“Do you want to have sex?”
“No,” she answered.
I then said, “Is that your final answer?”
She didn’t even look at me this time, simply saying, “Yes.”
So I said, “Then I’d like to phone a friend.”
And then the fight started…..
My wife was hinting about what she wanted for our upcoming anniversary.. She said, ‘I want something shiny that goes from 0 to 150 in about 3 seconds.’
I bought her a scale.
And then the fight started…
I took my wife to a restaurant. The waiter, for some reason,
took my order first.
“I’ll have the strip steak, medium rare, please.”
He said, “Aren’t you worried about the mad cow?”"
Nah, she can order for herself.”
And then the fight started…
A woman is standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror.´She is not happy with what she sees and says to her husband, ‘I feel horrible; I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment.’
The husband replies, ‘Your eyesight’s damn near perfect.’ And then the fight started……
well, all this sounds like the renewing of the socialist party.
The change already happened. Go to pune and see. if what you want the back the osho devotional path with cutist mini-gurujis like arun… all that is gone.
there is no possibility of meeting… and there is no need. both ways and visions can co-exist with whoever feels closer to them. I do not belive in a “miss universe” vision of world peace all brothers and sisters. the world is big enough to have all the visions together.
regarding keerti´s comment on Dyanesh. come on! I knowe the guy really well. he is a mafioso, a beautiful mafioso. with dealing with the local police, bribing and all. and I personally saw him kicking Indians out without any intervention of the “tourists”.
Actually I would say the indians in the high asministration felt better than fellow indians. More sophisticated, more refined,more ” western”. And I would adventure to say that they took some pleaure being discriminatory towards the rest of them.
anthony
Anthony
When i said CHANGE i didnt mean we need to go bak to old devotional type.. I only reffred to two things
Copyrights / Trademarks related conflicts
An organizational structure where different centeres can exist and contribute
Dont go by the number of times i use the word Love for Osho and think i am a devotional type
I am not
Any true Osho disciple worth his salt cannot be devotional type
I totally agree with you that Pune has gone thru all the positive changes .. It is a beautiful place where only Osho’s vision is given importance and devotions and blind followings
read lastline as ‘ NOT devotions and blind followings’
well, that’s not exactly true, Andreas, that the “youngsters” don’t give a shit. Amrito is young and he lets the world knows what he thinks through words and raps, but you don’t seem to have an open ear to listen…maybe it doesn’t fit too well with your gloomy German overview of the oberman…
Hey, lighten up… how ’bout a rap for us, Andy…chill, bro’….peace….
Hello oshobob, I did not talk about amrito, not at all, it’s great, I have even visited his site and liked it. I prefer classical music, different kind of lyrics etc., so no rap by me, but this does NOT mean I have a general judjment about rap. Some rap is great art, some commercial, some megalomanic stuff… as it goes. I was trying to say that the generations to come are in a strange and dangerous situation. And the ever repeating nonsens in the osho scene somehow is very tiresome to me and to be honest also feels a bit dumb. All the esoteric hotchpotch is not inspiring to me. Sannyasnews is one of the very few places with a diffrent “atmosphere”. I feel there is so much illusion around. Like you saying somewhere, that coummune live was a solution for kids etc. Those who were kids then are adults by now and mostly they are very very critical about their parents and about what happend to them in their childhood. It’s kind of a romantic idea, which won’t help… these subjects are complex. I am not able to get it into the keyboard with just a few words. I’d prefer to meet, actually we invite people for discussion about these kind of subjects here. Direct communication is more inspiring on many levels, but what to do…
Of course, everything is complex, Andreas, as the very short-lived communal groups in the Osho world history proved. But when you say most of those kids were very critical of their parents decisions about that, I’m not so sure that’s true. Some were, but all kids are to a lesser or greater extent, no matter what kind of social framework they were raised in. Kids complain.
They got thrown back into a very different environment, so in that new competitive world, they might have seen themselves at a disadvantage, lagging behind their peers. Which is always hard. Also, most of those kids were not born into a communal situation from the start, they were usually young kids when their parents, many times single from a relationship breakup, went to Osho, and brought the child with her (usually the case — a single mother). And the small communes didn’t last too long either, as far as my reading and hearing accounts of them showed. So, it’s not really a very clean research paradigm to make blanket conclusions on. Also, I have met some of those kids, now adults, who thought their childhood was just fine — quite adventerous, and rewarding.
But, like I say, it was not a pure situation — are there any?! Of course the Ranch was definitely not — there was a NO-childbirth policy, NO-pregnancy policy. If a woman got pregnant at the Ranch, it was basically a crime, she was sent out to an outside city clinic for an abortion, tube-tying procedure, and maybe let back in, but with a black mark by her name. As Osho proudly proclaimed, there was no child born on the Ranch in 5 years — so that was not a natural communal environment at all.
So, yes, it’s complex, and yes, it’s better to communicate in person, face-to-face, about complicated issues, but that is not so easy — unless we all lived in a commune, then it would be quite easy!
And, to wrap it up — all generations are faced with a shitload of problems from the previous generation, but those were all bacially inherited too. Each generation did not create the package themselves. When Charles Dickens said in A Tale of Two Cities, “We live in the best of times; we live in the worst of times,” I think he was speaking a truth that transcends all eras.
Cheers
After creating a chit chat through the key boards, i will also prefer a bit of meeting, may be to meet Andreas is easy beng in Germany. Rest i hope one day we meet coincidently at Pune. I hope it is still mentioned on the back of the food passes, meeting place of friends.
I request Anthony Thompson to read his comments again, full of white supermacy. I am sure you were one of those, who beleived in the weapons of mass destruction because the people n the power wanted the masses to beleive.
If you think 17, koregaon park is better without the arche type people like Satya Vedant or keerti or Neelam than i will say ask the white mothers of Uk to produce a single man like Osho.
If it makes your head spin to listen heart throbing music with a touch of devotion than don’t participate.
If a certain food makes some one diarreha, it doesnot mean hotels stop serving that food.
By killing the music of Milarepa, Miten or Primal etc. in that place, admistration has suffocated the throat and heart.
If dry bones don’t come to the ashram it is fine. 98% of the regular visitors have stoped coming because of the arbitrary changes.
If some suited booted anglo sexon tells about the Chapatis, most rpobably he is going beyond his mandate. I am sure Anthony has tasted the chapatis in the ashram and also in the hotels. country of 1.2 billion people offer such Chhapatis to the dogs, cows and crows.
I sometime feel sorry for the humblness of the 50plus Indians, they buck under the pressure of Raj supermacy.
Dear Anthony, next time when you go to Pune please go just a kilometer north to the ashram and ask any educated Indian,” Where is the Osho resort”. most probably he will ask his companion,” By the way, do you know where this resort is.”
Osho is a unique master for the reason that he conceptuated a multi cuision inner restaurant to cater all kind of people, intellectual or intelligent, devotional or licentious. Take any ingredient away and you turn into simple fish and fry or rice and dal kind of thing.
For this no need to go to Pune.
shantam,
dont worry about tony,he is just some would-be macho dago guy whose only claim to racial supremacy is the english name!
when he gets off the plane at bombay he fantasizes that he is colonel thompson of the king`s hussars,sent to quell an indian “mutiny” in the resort….
it`s sad,really.
To Oshobob (what’s up with your name?)
You said: Arun’s style will never cut the mustard in the West, except with a handful of young Indian expats like yourself and friends…
Who’s style is suitable for the West in Osho’s world?
now, don’t be so hard on Anthony,
he can’t rap worth a shit,
but he freely admits to that inability,
and honesty is almost an Endangered Attitude these days….
TonyZ, you alright bro’, don’t let ‘em getcha down…
Chetna,
Mine.
I am would like to assert that I can not be a white supremacist because I am not white. I am a Latino.
I have only said that discrimination has always been part of the policy and it was installed by osho himself. and executed by the ashram-commune-administration, including indians. that is all. And I already discussed the reasons for that. as an Indian, shantam, you may not like that… I understand, but do not get angry at me those were not my policies.
Please read what osho said about Indian culture and conditioning and the reasons he ordered people out.
He was the one who said ” India is the most rotten society in the world.” he said that. not me.
I am just stating a fact. I have nothing to do with that.
I have fun in India.
I like the way pune is now. I am not a devotional follower, I am someone interested in meditation and personal growth. The style of the ashram, as it was before, simply does not represent me. I am sorry, but I am entitled to that. I think devoiding osho´s vision of cultist -devotional aspects is healthy.
I think if people need that there are hundreds of places to get that going. I just do not think it will happen in Pune.
And it is also my opinion… and I am entitled to that.
anthony
oshobob,quite the knob
claims to be a zenmaster
but really doesn`t have a job
Anthony, you must know by now that after meditation comes prayer (devotion)….maybe some way to go for you?
Crazy world of divison:
East and West
Pune and Ohso world
Meditation vs devotion
Indian vs white
women and men
no end…..and Osho tried so hard to merge divisions…the game goes on
well, look at that will ya, frank knows how to use the copy and paste function on his computer! Amazing what a closet sannyasin with a lot of time on his hands can accomplish on a Saturday night.
Boka, m’man, whatchoo say? Copyright infrigement? Yo or no?
Chetna, can I ask, are you a Ma or a Swa?
So. I decided to go evangelical shantam. here are some quotes from osho:
“The Indian mind is so sexually repressed that it cannot love, it can only lust. And once the lust is there you start looking at everybody else in the same way; that is your language.
When two Western sannyasins are hugging each other and the Indian–any Indian–sees them, the only idea in his mind is that of sex and lust; he cannot understand love. Not a single sannyasin from the West in these six years–and thousands have come, at least fifty thousand people come every year–has raped any Indian woman. But hundreds of attempts have been made by the Indians on Western women, and not only by ordinary people but even by police officers. Even to go to the police station is dangerous! Everywhere there are wolves–and these are very spiritual wolves, very religious!”
Theologia mytica
some more…
“An Indian friend asks: Many times when I see our friends hugging, kissing passionately, and caressing each other’s bodies, I feel that it is this sight which offends Indian society in general and creates great misunderstandings about you and your teachings. With this particular type of behavior, if the society is offended and great difficulties are created for the world of our Master, why shouldn’t we simply correct our behavior when we are in society, whether in India, America, or Germany?
This is what I have been talking about: the rotten mind.
What is wrong in hugging a person you love, in kissing a person you love? Don’t enforce your hug on anybody, that’s true; then it is ugly–and that’s what the Indians go on doing. And my women sannyasins are aware of it.
If you are there in the marketplace, then Indians behave really in an ugly way. They will pinch your bottoms. Now, that is ugly. They will rub their bodies against your body. That is ugly. They will look at you as if they would like to eat you. That is ugly. They will look at you as if they would like to see how you are behind your clothes. That is ugly, but that is accepted, that is perfectly good.
And, because they are so sexually repressed, whenever they see somebody hugging, kissing, holding hands, showering so much love on each other, their repressed sexuality starts surfacing. They become afraid of themselves.
The Indian mind has lived in control, discipline, character. It is a hypocritical mind. On the surface is control, deep down there are all kinds of things boiling. And when you provoke them they are offended–not against you: they are offended by their own unconscious, but they are not aware of that at all. They throw the responsibility wholly on you, that you are doing something wrong.
In Indian films, murder is allowed, suicide is allowed; kissing is not allowed. Just think and see the whole absurdity of it. Murder is allowed. Kissing is far more dangerous, far more dangerous than murder? What kind of valuation is this? Suicide is allowed. All kinds of sadistic, masochistic tortures are allowed, but kissing is not allowed. A certain distance has to be maintained between the lips–six inches, I think. Lips should not come more than six inches closer; otherwise there will be an atomic explosion!
It is just a very repressive society.”
Osho: The last testament
cheers
anthony
anthony
i agree with anthony.
“osho`s vision must be devoided of cultish emotional aspects.”
these are the forms of worship of lower types and races,which cannot be tolerated by more “sophisticated,more refined,(western)” people like ourselves.
we must push for a final solution to this problem.
I agree with frank.
A final solution. (I’m getting tired of this shit.)
hey oshobob.
.
you can`t tell the difference beween a man or woman these days?
too much donkey dick soup?
on this sannyasnews, frank, it’s not too easy to tell sometimes, the gender difference.
Keerti made no attempt to answer my question about the Osho discourse situation on oshoworld.com, on this thread today, if you noticed…
so I went to that article about it a few threads back, thinking maybe he put something there, but all I saw was this long, long, back and forth posting by Kranti and Chetna, almost like two people sending sweet love letters back and forth…well, since the Kranti claims he’s a man, I thought Chetna might be a woman. They seem so enthralled with each other, and their love for Osho…why not just clear it up, right in the beginning…
A short quiz for all —
For the following, are they “colored”, or “white” ? :
Barack Obama
Aryan Indians
Tamil Indians
Ashnakani Jews
Sephardic Jews
Russian Jews
Greeks
Libyans
Kenyans
Swedes
Canadians
British
Brazilians
Iranians
Iraqis
Israelis
Egyptians
Germans
French
Italians
Latinos
Mexicans
Chinese
Japanese
Koreans
Indonesians
Mongolians
Caucasians (i.e. Georgians)
Turks
Sammy Davis Jr.
Buffy St. Marie
Osho
Margaret Thatcher
etc. etc., I can’t go on anymore, the list will get too long..
But, the answer is they are ALL ‘colored’ — and the color is brown. From very light brown to very dark brown. Such a simple thing.
I meant “Ashkanasi Jew”, that would be like a European/German type I think, like Wilhelm Reich.
Beloved Anthony,
To defend the Indian mantality is not my concern. I agree 100% what osho says about India and how Indians have misused the freedom provided by Osho at His ashram.
From the age of 24 till 37 th year, i have spend most of the time at 17, koregaon park. I have zero tolerance in my heart, who have entered the ashram campus but have used the system only for self gratification be Indian or Europian.
I knew dozens of those Indians personally who used to start their day with the begging bowl, and were saying shamelessly,” go on asking the woman. don’t get discouraged by the rejection. Ask 20 at the end of the evening one will be sure on your bed.” One could vomit with this attitude, all this in the name of Osho, in the name of Tantra…
At a certain time there was even a joke in the states of Gujrat and Panjab,
” where are the embassies?.”
” At Rajneesh Ashram, Poona”
When my friends tell me in India about the Marcedeaz or BMW on the Indian roads. I always answer, real progress i will count when Indian cities dare to open sex shops.” I give them the example that in Germany during the summer, how women walk naked all around, and no body dare to wistle. Tell me will it ever be possible in the land of kamasutra.”
My blood boil for one thing, when i see that Osho’s whole concept has been hijacked by a certain group of people. They have imposed their version over the main stream. Neelam or keerti or Vedant are not less intelligent than the others. They are as much part of Osho as an Elephant’s trunk. When Osho himself has encouraged a certain kind of music, who the fuck some dare to take it away. He has alllowed himself to be photographed at every momant, call him maglomanic or narcistic, If you accept his words than accept the fucking message behind his photos too.
if you play His game than play His game.
World has done extra ordinarly beautiful without Osho. I am utterly happy that the guys who developed Google, they did it without any dynamic, without any master. Shit happens when some empoyee of theirs think google is a bit childish let this product have a better name.
There are people who will feel happy even in Burma or North Korea, because it gives them comfort.
Anthony, If you are not a devotional type than it means others have no right to follow their path.
You and your kind of guys are like that child,” Who go to the shoe store and tell to the owner. “Uncle, my shoe size is 39. why you are keeping all kind of sizes.”
I am not a confirmist kind of person, shit is a shit even when it is in the organisation i have lived my whole youth in. I can die for a country but not for some commander in chief. And i am sure this is the way most of His people live. I salute those thousands of sannyains or ex sannyasins who dare to walk alone than to say yes to a extra constitutional authoritity.
Correction- Women walk naked all around. I wanted to write all around the lakes..(FKK)
Shantam you say: “I can die for a country but not for some commander in chief.” I would not even die for my country, if you ask me.
Again two points: one, the discriminatory policies came from osho and were exercised by the administration weather they were westerns or Indians. The place is not more discriminatory now than it was before. actually I would say it is less now. there are hundreds of Indians living and working in the resort and many of them in high administrative positions.
Second. My view is my view and I can say what i agree or what i like. I am the measurement for me, not Osho´s work.
So of course I like the new style… it fits me and It agrees with me. remember I am not a surrendered sannyasin.. I have no commitment to anyone, not even Osho. I am a research scholar who has been influenced and impressed by the old man. But he is not my master. I have no master.
And over all I think the move is healthy. Temples, adoration and blind devotion have done a lot of damage to humanity…youcan read what osho said about that.
I know of no resort who has hurt anyone. so i think it is the right move. F the choice is a temple or a resort.. I´ll go for the resort. Even Osho can be improved upon.
If people want a more devotional trip, osho world, nisarga and hundreds of places are allover. 80% of the participants of the resort are not sannyasins and do expect to turn sannyasin. they are just interested in meditation and personal development.
Again, not a universal truth, just my opinion.
anthony
Yesterday i was talking to a friend of mine who has started off in this awakening path recently but has growm enourmously due to life situations forced him..
He admtted to me that ever india including him ( including the holy Kranti ,althogh awareness developed over the years & deprogrammimg have helped a lot to move beyond those struggles ) suffers badly due to repressed sex
Now if you are aware and you look at sex as nothing special than eating pizzas then you will go ahead and have fun and forget all about it
But it is not that easy for every Indian..It is the biggest struggle for him.. Most of the indians get married at the age of 30 plus and until then they would not have had sex ..
If i go by Osho .. he says after 28 no orgasm possible
This mean even if an indian finally gets married or meets a woman and go thru sex he is alwys going to be a dissatisfied idiot because things have gone wrong from the biggining
At the age of 17 instead of spending time with girls he /she is forced to sit at temples and worship gods who dont exist
What do you expect?
I have seen this utterly disgusting things in PUNE
Infact there is whole gang of young indians who are there only for picking up girls.. Even if you talk to one of the girls they are trying to pick up you are a dead donkey
They have treated Pune resort exactly for what it states. A Resort… they dont give a damn to Osho and meditation
I have known people who lived inside the resort for 5 years and did dynamic meditation alll the time with such low class behaviours
The situation just outside the resort is even worse..there are lot of westeners who come to Pune as part of their overall India tour..They are interested in coming there like any other Indian temple they visit.
These people hang around most of the time outside..and these are the targets for those indian guys hangging around outside
There is huge business outside in meeting the requirements of the visitors be it finding them a accomodation or smoke or drug or whatever it is.
So much stink iutside the resort and no one can control that
My feeling is , If things had gone rightly Osho would have disconnected himself from India…It is a sheer waste of time trying to wake up indians in ths past because of the too much luggage they were carrying from the past
And it is going to be even bigger waste of time waking up young indians
India is an emerging economy and most of the indians are too excited about the prospects of earning well and having fun in life.. Even if they hear about Osho they will use Him for time pass and move away.. The attractions outside are too big .
India may not be ready for Osho for another 100 years..unless social conditions push people to look at INSIDE
It is just my thoughts.. Never know
“If people want a more devotional trip, osho world, nisarga and hundreds of places are allover. 80% of the participants of the resort are not sannyasins and do expect to turn sannyasin. they are just interested in meditation and personal development.”
My perception was that those who run the show are not even interested in meditation.
No one to ask about meditation-only shouting what I am allowed to aware and where to go.
It is ok for you Anthony, and that’s fine, but there are millions of sannyasins to whom Osho is more than a friend! They should also have a space in the Master’s place, but they rejoice in love with Osho not in dry instructions how to do the technique! Hence, many go to other places like Nisarga and Tapoban. I actually cannot believe people just accepted it-old most beautiful sannyains are banned and those perverts described above are welcome now! Real growth in consciousness of those who run that nonsense.
What heals and transforms is LOVE, nothing else. One can do a technique till the rest of his days and nothing will change him.
There remarks about devotion, what’s wrong with it??? And if one is a true Osho sannyasin he is never a blind follower, but if love overwhelms him/her and he wants to bow down to Osho, put the ego for splits seconds away, what’s wring with that?? It is also a device.
When I talk about devotion and prayer to me it means silence of the mind and flowering of the heart.
Some say Arun is not going to be popular in the West, I think I agree with that. The simple reason is-no one is really interested in meditation here! Arun’s camps are 100% Osho techniques-nothing else! But Westerners are also like Indians are looking into picking up girls, touch each other and all that nonsense that is being offered by therapists.
West is starving for love hence any therapist that offers every 10 minutes a hug is a success. What a sheer nonsense! I hated in when I was told to go and hug someone. And I know for the fact that that someone is like to be a stinky old man who cannot wait to touch my bottom.
Unfortunately, Osho name is not corrupted only in the East, but also in the West!
Luckely, there are still sincere sannyains around who spread His love and vision.
PS I am a young woman, Oshobob and I thought Kranti was a woman…he he, a gentle loving woman, but he appeared to be a gentle loving man. I love India for this softness in people’s heart.
Good morning,
good thoughts from all the sides.
Osho has been talking a lot about these subjects. As we all know, a great deal of it is conditioning, culture and education. The whole world is affected by the shortcomings of local conditioning of all kind, not only sannyasins. My simple experience is, that people with some education, professional global experience easily loose grip of narrow minded patterns and behaviour. Some education, a little bit of open minded traveling and dealing with people. Some freedom. You don’t have to be enlightend for that. That’s why all the holy warriors are afraid of it. Unfortunately that is not possible for the vast majority of mankind. And even if it would be, the planet could not handle it for ecological reasons. Yet the internet is a substitute somehow and it can be used in many ways.
I think it would have been a good thing for osho also, to have done some travelling outside india. If he had been out of India, before he went to the West, things might have taken a different course. Most of what osho knew was from books given to him by sannyasins (even his talk on sex is highly acquire by reading). So he had not much of an idea about western constitutions, democracy, the age of enlightenment (not speeking in esoteric terms but about the frensh revolution and is consequences), about human rights etc. and the evolution behind it. In this way osho was very indian. He had to be the guru, the master, on top of it always. But that is a excessive demand for anybody in a complex world. His whole thinking was a reaction to the corrupt society he grew up in. And as most easterners he mainly saw the material side of of the western culture. But the west has also gone through a long and painfull history to create something wise like constitutions and human rights.
What surprises me, Anthony, is, that for the first time I read something from you like “Even Osho can be improved upon”. Wow! That’s really something to me, to hear that from such a stong osho-advocate like you. Now, what do you think could/should be improved? I am really interested. Certainly we are not talking about the renewing of a socialist party, but about our present time. Osho always tried to be up to date in his time, it is absolutely stupid to remain static. Holy cows just produce bullshit. My understanding of change is far beyond the (good intended changes) which have taken place in Pune. Highest priority to me was to trust a process like the one we have here. There is no harm to anything through democracy, except to static and everlasting power structures.
Chetna
I am Greatful for the love..
Think what Anthony means by devotion is that blind attachment and worshiping Osho like a god
I think he very well understands there is a place for HEART in all these..
YOu cannot be head oriented and if you are , then you are never going to stay long with Osho anyway..You will end up with another teacher who satisfies your mind
Osho keeps coming to your heart… not head..
When i say i love Osho.. I Love him out of gratitude. For the understandng he has given me about life and freeing me from all conditionings..Indian conditioning at that
I have certain attchement to his personality as well ..But i think it is part of growth.. I am ok with that
Again when i wrote that post about India.. it is a core problem Osho always talked about..
But Osho also talked about the fact it is not very different from WEST.. The difference is superficial
He also talked about the fact that Indian mind has its own advantages..
An Indian takes time to get attracted to Osho due to a heavy past but Once they get attracted to Osho they drop the resistance to grow more easily whreas the western mind initially gets attracted quickly but refuses to surrender beyond a point
After all it is the western mind which put an end to Osho’s dreams in US so quickly.
He was always welcomed back in India.. Imagine if that has not happned we wuld not have the PUNE 2 which is the most significant part..Whatever we have seen afterwards is just an extension of PUNE 2
Andreas
We are not into Psychology and modifications of mind..
In my opinion Osho’s understanding of the west is good enough
As far He was concerned a MIND is a MIND
Some superficial differences dont matter
He was not trying to change western mind into eastern or eastern into western
He was trying to make people understand the limitations of the MIND AS SUCH whether it is western or eastern.. deep down all MINDs are same
As far as the point Osho can be improved upon it is no surprise
Osho always said HE IS A NEW BEGINNING… he never said he is the end or he is complete..
Osho \’s work was to deconstruct or deprogram and allow a situation wherein people can live ife.. In that sense all growth and improvements are left to the individual
Finally discussion is coming again on the right tracks.
the last few posts are quite superb. Thanks God, Chetna is back, Ma’s are the most important part of spiritual pathway crafted by Osho.
Anthony, i really appreciate your dittached and very fair comments.
Problem is that in the non democratic set ups, people in the power listen only to the pigmys. They become color blinded. They cling to the power with the support of less than 10 percent of the population.
Thanks God the sannyasins or their organisation has no hand in the business or the political arena. With this mind set Osho people would have proved dedlier than LTTE .
When we look at Osho with the human side, it is true that His views about the world would have been different if He had the first hand experience of the western civilisation, its democratic institutions, its development.
Even after reading only the books, Osho has touched a very rare nerve of the west. His suggestions coming out from the compassionate stage are remarkable.
When Anthony suggest that His people should go to Osho world or Nisarga, it is as ridiculous as the guests telling the hosts please, go somewhere else.
This shows the systematic failure of the ashram machinary.
Again i say, it is a unique contribution of Osho that He left us with a multi product store. Curious on lookers can come, students and research scholoars are welcome, and for sure His people, as he says for disciples and devotees.” I hope Anthony has listened such lectures too, where Osho speaks in a braod way, about the four classifications of the seekers.
Take any product away and you destroy the taste. Management at 17, Koregaon Park and the Osho dhara are basically doing the same thing, Improving Osho…
It will be a delight if we are able to improve Osho. In the end it is the consumers who decide how much better is the new I phone!
As far as improvements in the world of Osho are concerned till now they look like as if child has mixed a spoonful of Marmlade(jam) and a bit of salt in a glass of Nutella.
I have my love and respect for Anthony and Andreas..
After all they are such intelligent and sharp human beings.. They have the ability to look at and live life intelligently
But they are the two prime examples of a western mind which gets attracted to Osho to startwith but doesnt go beyond a point
Anthony / Andreas: Apologies for the judgement. I may be completely wrong..But still i am expressing this as an example of western approach
Read their statements
Andreas
” My simple experience is, that people with some education, professional global experience easily loose grip of narrow minded patterns and behaviour. Some education, a little bit of open minded traveling and dealing with people. Some freedom. You don’t have to be enlightend for that ”
Anthony
So of course I like the new style… it fits me and It agrees with me. remember I am not a surrendered sannyasin.. I have no commitment to anyone, not even Osho. I am a research scholar who has been influenced and impressed by the old man. But he is not my master. I have no master.
There is lies a core issue..
You stay with the mind ..may be more sharper and sensitive mind.. it is mind nevertheless
But Osho asks us to go beyond mind and enter emptiness
Thats where the resistance is..
It is true for me also as i am not a typical eastern mind
My situation even worse.. a combination of western and eastern
We all go with Osho to certain extent and turn our mind into a better or transformed mind..then fall in love with that beter mind..continue…not beyond that
Kranti, I am definitely not talking about “psychology and modifications of mind”! That terrible nonsens. But all the talk about “mind as such” or “no mind” is terrible nonsens too. You need your mind even to type a single letter on your keyboard. If your brain does not produce any content you are dead. The only thing possible is not to be identified! You think surrender will do? Come on. That is a very old dirty joke. It’s businness and anyone to deal with, knows that. A mutual and very awkward business. That’s why they deconstructed buddha hall. The man is gone. Now what will you do, surrender to some chair, stone, picture or other nonsens?
Please stop blamming Indians, whole humanity is unconssious and all have problems, thas way or that way.
If Indian have there problem than western have there own.
I don’t see any point to comdemn any body. and yes Please don’t use Osho’s quote to prove your own ugllyness, what ever Osho say his porpose is not to codemn some one but yes Anthony is using his words to express his own shit,. Please be honest Anthony ans say what ever you feel for Indians don’t go behind Osho’s words…you are proving just cowerd….be couragious enough….and if you use Osho’s qoutes for Indians than one can use Osho’s quotes for western…and you will see how Osho hammer on western mind also…
Andreas
The problem is how we understand ‘ No Mind ‘
I had same idea about No Mind ..
Now that is changing
What Osho meant by No Mind is not absense of mind
He taked about the absense of a ‘ME’
Being very poetic Osho always left a gap where you have to make the jump..
I didnt understand that initially
thats the reason i started listening to Adyashathi and Mooji
What they say is your thoughts and mind which is required for taking care of day to day life will continue..but the ME which is trying to be in control and uses that mind will be gone
If you have not done it so far mu suggestion is to fill the gap in understanding by listening to someone like Adyashanthi
There is so much misconception about NO Mind
Even after i drop the ME i will continue typing wit the leftover part of mind ( if i call like that ) whih is enough to takecare of the daily living
I benefitted immensely by listening to Adyashanti in this
And your second point surrender is concerned again i depends on your definition
No one is asking you to kneel down and wash the feet of the master
when we say surrender we mean dropping out of that habit ‘ continously thinking mind’ or ‘ being head oriented’
If we start with wrong definition of words like No MIND or SURRENDER everything which follows will be wrong
Jadhav
Thanks for joining
No one here is hiding behind Osho’s words
Everyone is at different stages of growth and we all feel we will only grow and become more mature by this sharing
Everyone here is sharing out of intelligence and beautiful intentions
Kranti, Bob, Anthony and others,
For weeks we are now on this platoform.
I am curious to see the faces behind the names, the people who are pouring their hearts out through the words.
Do any of you are in the facebook or something like that.
In Andreas website, one can see him and in my fliers at my website is also my photo.
Life is all in the bonding…
Andreas has written
That’s why they deconstructed buddha hall. The man is gone. Now what will you do, surrender to some chair, stone, picture or other nonsens?
Who were the people behind the deconstuction of the Buddha Hall.
For sure old man is gone but Buddha hall was also a symbol of personal journey for thousands of people mostly western and many of them with an higher degree in an conventioanl education.
When taliban dismantel the thousands years old Buddha statue in Afgansitan, there was a bit of hue and cry. World goes on moving, still a beautiful mile stone is lost.
Everyday i go into one or another Goethic Churches in my area. These architechtural marvels are not used any more, still they radiate a sense of human inner journey. Buddha Hall is like these.
Anthony Thompson and some other friends here may enjoy this:
A man had come to see Sigmund Freud. Those were the days when Sigmund Freud was too much obsessed with the idea of sex; everything was to be reduced to sex. Just as Christianity for two thousand years had been repressing sex and was obsessed with sex, so was Sigmund Freud. He was almost a saint! If obsession with sex makes a person a saint, Sigmund Freud is a saint.
All the Christian saints have been obsessed with sex; they have created a very repressive society, ugly, sick, nauseating. Sigmund Freud is a revenge, a revenge of the unconscious; he becomes the mouthpiece of the unconscious. Now he was doing the same thing from the opposite end: everything had to be reduced to sex.
A camel passed. Freud and the man who had come to see him both looked outside the window. Sigmund Freud asked the man — as he was always asking people — “What are you reminded of, seeing the camel?”
And the man said, “Sex.” Freud was of course very happy. Whenever your theory is supported, a new evidence that even a camel reminds a person of sex….
Then to be more clear and on more certain ground he asked, “Do you see these books on the rack? What do they remind you of?”
And the man said, “Sex.”
Now even Freud was a little puzzled, and he asked, “What do I remind you of?”
And the man said, “Sex.”
And Freud said, “How is it possible? The camel reminds you of sex, the books remind you of sex, I remind you of sex….”
The man said, “EVERYTHING reminds me of sex!” Everything can remind you of sex if it is too much repressed, and everything starts taking a sexual color. Sigmund Freud was of course very happy seeing this man. He noted down the whole story. He used to tell this story again and again to his students.
Once it happened, when he was telling it to a new class of students, one of the students who had also been in his class before said, “But sir, you have told this story last year too.”
Sigmund Freud waited for a moment and then said, “Then you need not laugh, but let others laugh. If you have laughed last year, that’s okay, no need to laugh anymore. But I have to tell this story because it has a point.”
Osho:The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 3, Chapter #2
The fourth question:
Question 4
BELOVED MASTER,
THE WEST SEEMS TO BE OBSESSED WITH SEX. PEOPLE ARE STUFFED WITH ENDLESS TECHNIQUES AND PORNO IMAGES. WHY, IN ALL THIS TIME, ARE PEOPLE STILL STUCK AND UNABLE TO MOVE INTO THE TANTRIC EXPERIENCE OF SEX, OF LOVE AND OF LIFE?
Prem Karin, it is not a question of West or East. Both are obsessed with sex — of course, in different ways. The West is indulgent, the East is repressive, but the obsession is the same. And the significant question is: Why is the West so indulgent? It is two thousand years of Christianity and its repressive methods that have brought this indulgence.
The East is repressive; sooner or later, it is going to become indulgent. The mind of man moves like a pendulum, from the right to the left, from the left to the right. And remember, while the pendulum is moving to the right it is gaining momentum to move to the left, and vice versa. It appears it is going to the left, but it is gaining momentum, energy, to go to the right. When a society is repressive it is gaining momentum to become indulgent, and when a society is indulgent it is gaining momentum again to become repressive.
So a strange thing is bound to happen, and in fact, it is happening: the West has been indulgent for a few decades and the repressive trend is arising again. There are many cults which preach celibacy now. The Hare Krishna movement preaches celibacy, BRAHMACHARYA, and thousands of people have become interested in it. And there are many cults arising which are all agreed on one point: that sex has to be repressed. In the name of yoga, in the name of Zen, in the name of Christianity, many cults are arising which are again repressive. The West will become repressive soon.
And in the East, the number of porno magazines is growing every day; porno movies are coming more and more. The East is a little slow in everything, a little lazy in everything, so it takes a little longer. The West moves with speed. But the East is becoming West and the West is becoming East, and that is one of the greatest problems. If this happens, then the misery remains the same. Again the pendulum has moved and again you will go on doing the same things.
This has happened many times in the past. A repressive society becomes indulgent sooner or later. When the repression comes to a point where you cannot repress it anymore it explodes: people go berserk. Or when a society has been very indulgent it starts seeing the futility of it, the sheer wastage of energy. And it gives no contentment; rather it makes one feel more and more frustrated. Then one starts thinking of brahmacharya — celibacy. Maybe the ancient RISHIS were right!
In the East also it has happened many times. The Hindu religion, in the beginning, was very indulgent; it was not a repressive religion. The Hindu seers were married people. Not only were they married, they were allowed to have a few other women also as their concubines. They were allowed even to purchase women — because in those days in India, men and women were sold in the marketplaces just like any commodity.
Osho:The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol 10, Chapter #12
Yes Shantam
It is not about a physical structure
Everytime i am there in Pune i stand at the podium from where Osho used to speak and feel good about it
And surrender is not to somone outside.. It is a Inner Letting Go
whether the master is there are not you surrender to the vision and let go of your HEAD..
Shantam I dont have a facebook.. I will create one shortly
I dont mknow much about this facebook concepts
Can we create a group kind of thing ?
Shantam
I created a facebook account in the name of Kranti Devapatha.. How to proceed?
I am very sorry but writing in this forum and trying to rap is as hip as i can come. Facebook? no way. I am 64 years old I am not a teenager.
I am interested to answer Andreas question regarding osho, and how In my opinion, he can be improved.
I ´ll tell you something. In 1995 Osho´s chair was brought to Buddha hall every night. the Indian businessmen outside where manufacturing small plaster chairs, a replicate of osho´s chair in the podium. We commented with some people that that is the way cheesy religions are created.
To try to keep the ashram as a temple or a sacred place was building the way to create what Osho spent all his life fighting: a religion.
when the master is gone. just pictures, and rituals are left to remind people of the old man. and here lies the problem.
Devotion as been uded as a method for rising the heart energy for centuries in India. It is called bhakti path. Such methods can be disastrous when the master is no longer alive, because people become attached to their own mind projections and fantasies.
A living master like Osho can kick your ass, change the way, demolish institutions, send everybody home etc.
an image in the mind of the devotee can not do that.
Now your question Andreas. osho should have dismantled the whole guru-trip game before he left. He knew the trapping and slavery that it had caused in the past.
he should have never said ” leave you my dream”.
He left intelligent people to do it for him, and that is what has happned now in pune. But you see the result.
Halve of the sannyasins think it goes against osho. I do not think so,I think it goes in favor of osho´s vision more than anything.
The old Man should have freed the people clearly, before he went away. He spoke about it many times, but he should have been specific at the end. he should have said ” Keep the place open for seekers and meditators, make a place for growth… But Kill the buddha… ans let him die. ”
I leave you my dream was an awful last line. If you ask me.
He knew what happened to Buddha. he said do not make statutes of me… and see the result.
I think the guru-game was extremely useful when he was there, because he helped people to grow… not like krishnamurti who was just surrounded by intellectuals.
He should have destroyed it at the end.
Keerti, I do not feel so evangelical today , so no quotes to answer.
anthony
Kranti,
check your facebook page. mail from me is there.
And i am looking forward for Anthony, Chetna,belovedBob, “ArunAmrito”, Swami Andreas Roth and and
Just remember a poem in Hindi in the 6th class school text book..
“Kavi Kuch aesi tan sunao, jis se uthal puthal mach jaiye..Ek hilore idhar se aye, ek hilore udhar se aaye..”
It fits with the name of Kranti Devapath.. May be he is able to do the rough translation for us.
Anthony you have written a nce piece above, in the line of a research scholar. If people want to worship Osho’s chair replica, why that manufacturar did not go further. You think he stopped this because buddha hall chair is not coming anymore, poor man cannot copy!
It is very dangerous when the guru dies as the disciples will put their mind projections. So one should search a living guru…1008 are still living. Please, let us know which one you find in the remaining active years of your life.
Osho has said many times that so much and so vast he has spoken that it is impossible to create a sect or religion around him.
Devotion and gratitude is another thing. This He has wished us to cultivate.
Every day i go to the chuch for meditation because buildings are utterly mind blowing, there is nobody to encash 8 Euros for one hour of Sashin or zazen. I bow before the Christ and the Maria, Lit the candle once in a while. by entering and leaving i also dip my finger in the water and touch my forehead. Many times i am there during the mass, Mostl my eyes are closed so i don’t know when to stand and when to go on sitting and many many times my eyes become wet with the music and when people pray something like, “Jesus Hör uns”…
I don’t miss a bit the whole thing called Buddha hall in the ashram. This is the reason i am adament for its survival because it has changed the life of many like me.
Will mail you Shantam
Unfortunately I am an Indian who cant speak Hindi
I will ask my friend to do the translation
Anthony
Even i never used something facebook or chatting kind of stuff.. not my cup of tea
But here i understand Shantam.. We share so much thinking… It is just nice to have a face against the names
Shantam
I confirmed invitations from you and Chetna
After lot of struggle i uploaded a photo of mine
Seems having ability to understand little bit of Osho doesnt mean you know how to use a Facebook..Haha
Not much luck with the translation
Understand it goes somehing like
Play music for us..world will shake..one wave is coming here and another wave is going there..
Couldnt make much out of it..
forgive me ..
Keerti,
Thanks for those copy and pastes from Osho. You seem to be very good at that skill, as you have had 40 years of practice at it now.
But wouldn’t it be better to just get all those complete Osho audio mp3′s back up on your website, http://www.oshoworld.com?
Then the people of the world could have access to the entire original discourses as Osho spoke them, without the filter of someone else deciding what is the right excerpt to use for their own personal agenda, opinion or current internet posting.
As you have given no updates, information or transparency to this situation of Osho’s audio discourses being non-accessable to the world’s internet viewers — either here at sannyasnews, oshoworld.com or your OIF website — everyone (but you and Ma Naina, I guess!) is in the dark on this subject.
Whazzup chief?
In limbo,
oshobob
Anthony, thanks for your reply. I agree to every line you wrote, with one addendum: It is not without reason, that osho could not dismantle himself. The reason is significant, but I am not going into details as you know my standpoint anyway. But may I repeat my question? What actually would you suggest in practical terms about todays situation? Or do you accept it as it is? Do you care at all?
To Kranti: I like to extend my last reply to you a bit. As most of us here, I have listened quiet a bit to osho and I practice zazen since more then 32 years. So I guess I am able to understand what you said about the mind. What I have found is very simple. It is so simple, that it is utterly boring for most of us, a nothing to sell. So to me the whole thing about enlightenment, no mind, buddha mind, call it as you will, is just completely overrated. Really. And there is no one in the whole history who has made such a tam tam about the whole thing as osho.
Shantam, I liked your view about churches. As you can imagine I am against any religion and I am not able to participate in any of their rites. But the buildings indeed are mind blowing, if you take your time. European churches and temples have been built by utterly creative people: the best architects, great craftsman and artists of their time. So if one is abel to separte the building from relgion, it becomes a very inspiring adventure and even a meditation. For example there are middle aged pictures of Maria, Jesus etc. The artists had to use these motives, to please the mafia of the soul. The essence is hidden to the stupids. It is found in the background, in a psycholdelic view, in aspects of nature, in a drapery or in the clouds in the sky. Only later in history artist were free to just paint the empty sky or even just extasy in colour, like Monet.
Beyond those efforts of meditation i honestly dont know what is in store Andreas..
W can only go by what masters say
I cant say anything about No Mind and all except mentioning i am trying to understand thru Osho and also by listening to teahers like Adyashanthi and Mooji..
I dont want to be very thoeritical
let us wait and see what life has in store.
Andreas. what do i suggest? I suggest what is happening in pune: a place for meditation , personal growth and meeting of people in an honest way, inspired by the vision of osho, but not focus on osho, more than any other participant.
even i would leave a room in the pyramids for bhakti sessions. devotional stuff and heart opening with the nice old songs. But as a method… as any other method.
stop any sort of banning policies, free copyrights and parties every other night.
Of course, keep low prices for youngsters… specially young girls, ha, ha.
anthony
Just spoke to Shantam over pone..
Shantam was very soft spoken true to his name..
We learned about each other a little more..
Opened a possibility of meeting in Pune in the later part of 2009
It was wonderful
Surprisingly we had a common interest called Osho..Haha
With Love
Kranti
Kranti, there´s no way in the world you are a man!
you are just trying to fool us all.
“We learned about each other a little more..
Opened a possibility of meeting in Pune in the later part of 2009
It was wonderful”
Does this sound like a guy to anyone?
Oh Anthony, you are nice tease.
For sure Kranti is a beautiful man i have seen his photo. I think we both are hetrosexual men with immense fascination for women.
But on the other side, as a student and practitionar of human behavioural Astrology, Kranti sun sign is the most faminine one, The Pisces. About Pisces man one can even say, ” He is the woman in man’s body”.
I know life and astrology is quite complex, its simplicity is based on the web of complexity.
Love and devotion are the key words for Pisces, the way Intellect and observation are for air sign persons.
We the human beings and organisations dealing with the humans work smoothly if all the four elements are blended properly. At Pune, this blend has gone loop sided, one kind of people have gone dominated. Amazingly the four famous pillers at present time ashram are simply from one element… some one can guess what element?
FRAAAAANK!!! I am getting diabetes with so much sweetness. I am alatino… PLEASE!!!
even Oshobob will do!
When tibetans chanted free tibet…i could not get it.
But, now i feel the same kind of chanting within. Definitely, osho didn`t want any religons established around him. He asked everyone to be responsible for urself and he has said ` the moment iam gone disperse ` ……coz. he knew it. Iam have no comment to the right holders, they are doing their work perfectly for what they deserve. Swami Keerti i `ve touched u, i`ve talked u…u r so simple and plain like a child.
it`s just a certain sympathy towards those who have used such ill words towards u. they are the characters to be felt pity…in their heart only tacticts remain.
love to u all…
My God
You guys have thrown a different kind of challenge to me!
I am a man and Shantam’s judgement is correct..I am very much attracted to women ..i always get into trouble because of that
All i said is while we were sharing so much about Osho in this form it is good talk to a fellow sannyasin and meet..
Where on earth feminie qualities come in that?
My god.. If we even get an opportunity to meet you guys are going to put me in lot of trouble .. i mean… come in the way of myself getting closer to a woman by using false propaganda that i am not a man
Amrito says:
And how about this recent incidient with Dj Krishna telling an Indian girl that shes an “indian bitch” and to get “bloody indians out of the resort”.
This is very far from what actually happened in fact it was almost directly the opposite
But hey why not keep blowing wind on the fire………anekant
Oh,please stop trading insults to one another! Unless love blossoms, we haven´t been aware and this is outcome!
Please let sannyasins be acquainted with Osho´s awareness!How about Soror*Terezinha du Petit Jésus! Pics of Osho´s love!
PS.Please read Her story and then meditate on love! I would like if Our Veeresh have something to say about this trading insults for copywrite!
You are inviting trouble Amrit
The Seven ( Possibly 8 ) Samurais will Hop back to this article
A lot of mind garbage without content on this page.
Why not stick to the issues?
Hey Anekant,
Sure it may be straite gossip. Can you let me know what really happned?
Yes Anekant , Amrito is right
Please let us know if you know some facts..We are eager to to know.. It will certainly help
Buddha Prem
I agree with you
Thats why i suggest we have genearl discussion forum also
It is very difficult to be serious all the time.. Nothing wrong in sharing some garbage . But we can do that in a separate forum not menat for specific topics..Let me write to the editors
Amrito …I was not in the disco at the time so I do not know word for word what happened but I did ask Krishna what happened a day or two later. Again it was his version and i cant remember the word for word explanation(forgive me krishna if i dont get it 100%). but my understanding is something like this: The indian girl somewhat agressively asked him why he did not play india music. He replied that it was an international commune with people from all over the world so he plays international music. She then called him racist and hysterically demanded that the police get involved. Krishna found himself at the police station tying to explain to the police. He told me it was very stressful. He said that the police gave him the impression that they thought the girl was somewhat over the top and eventually let him go.
Now this is my version of it 3rd hand….really for verification i suggest you ask krishna himself.
Certainly the way amrito describes it gives the impression that krishna instigated the ecxchange when in reality there was a context around it.
….And how about this recent incidient with Dj Krishna telling an Indian girl that shes an “indian bitch” and to get “bloody indians out of the resort”.
sounds like she was a bitch!
yea well its good to hear the otherside.
And it wasnt me who described the exchange, it was the newspaper!
“Certainly the way amrito describes it gives the impression that krishna instigated the ecxchange when in reality there was a context around it”
But I do admit that a one-sided story aint a good story.
Nonetheless, there are incidents of not “racist” attitudes soley, but ego-trippin rude customer-service clerks !
http://oshobytes.blogspot.com/2009/06/silent-osho-explosion-in-india.html
Hi Zen99
Thanks for sharing this.. i will put this in the other thread also..
Dearest Osho Lovers!
Certainly you are all Osho lovers no doubt, but we all are crazy lovers and its good. Osho sannyasins has this flavor of individual get togetherness, this all discussion is good and i hope Osho is more enjoying than us for this foolishness we are doing here in His name…….
Its our ignorance that we claim we only good and rest are doing against Osho’s vision……..please let’s never quote that osho said this and that……..its better let’s we say, “this i heared” so it seems we are becoming honest………Nobody exactly can’t say what Osho is saying…….because these are an experiencing things……..we have to face it in silence …
Dear friends let’s new generation couldn’t be misunderstood by your all Quarell……
all are free to do their catharsis but no body can claim his catharsis is only right.
Samarpan!
Nepal
Ha!…….Osho talked and worked all his life to show the illusion of being Indian, westerners and whatnot….and lo an behold…whats happening…
Indian against western…this is so sad..
Vista,,
If this is your feeling after going through few posts, that it is Indian versus western football match, it will be a gross misunderstanding.
Most of the participants are talking from their heart, from their experiences on the journey with Osho.
Nobody is playing holier than the other, nobody is trying to preach, other than one or two posts. For example the swami above your post..
He looks a nice man but i will request him not to bring his preacher’s mind atleast here. Few Phd’s are here, not the school children typre, who need to be told about do’s and don’ts.
vista are you still secluded in that cave of yours in Namche Bazaar??!!!
First, I admit to only partially reading this thread because it seems to go off in a whole bunch of directions. But regarding the title subject, Osho Times – a magazine I have contributed to many times:
I am a professional photographer in New York who has shot for print media, online magazines, stores, and individuals. VIBE, a famous hip hop magazine that Quincy Jones started a decade ago suddenly shut down last month and its expected that they might go digital. Rolling Stone magazine switched to a smaller, less expensive standard magazine size last year. The entire magazine and print publishing industry is turning in this direction because of the worldwide economic recession but most of all because of the digital age and its effects on print publishing.
Major publications like The New York Times and Washington Post are regularly discussing whether they will survive these changes on NPR, in their own articles, on shows like Charlie Rose and in interviews.
Even old school broadcasters like Walter Conkrite, who you might see in the news recently as he died last week, have evolved (or degenerated depending on your opinion) into actor anchors who have never worked in wire feed rooms or even in location journalism. Some people say that CNN is better with live video being shown or home videos uploaded from people on the ground (which we recently saw coming out of Iran from cell phone videos etc…) And other people feel that the old school of broadcast news was better – all in the evening news roundup at 7 or 8 o’clock when people tuned it to hear about the world… rather than tuning in in little bites… as Conkrite put it.
I am sure there are both good at bad points in all of these shifts… But it seems to be a very simple change that is happening worldwide, not a battle against Indians or the fault of western powermongers, or a result of pune crumbling to ashes… there seems to be so much assumption and projection and simply scattered mind crap spewing out over a little change… its amazing.
As a professional photographer with friends who shot for Vibe and who work for Rolling Stone, I can’t say I like it, but I am open to this change. People move with change. We may not see it now but perhaps this will be even better for the magazines in the long run with digital advertising, it may also be better for photographers, writers, and readers because with digital pages there is no limit to how in depth the photographer and writer can go… cover stories can be there with a (click for full story) feature that allows for more than just surface tidbits but full stories and in Osho’s case discourses… the possibility for accompanying artwork and photography and other media is also expanded without print costs.
Perhaps the transition from print means a few readers miss a beat because of habit or a few photographers miss a paycheck because of the gap… but at least in the case of VIBE – contributors and readers are sad and nostalgic but at the same time optimistic and looking forward to the opportunities that arise out of the change… and that is coming from colleagues who have lost their jobs or taken pay cuts with whom I have discussed these changes many times. I agree with them… and I am still a fan of vinyl records and I prefer listening to LED ZEPPELIN on an old cassette tape over the mp3, even though I have to wind it back up with a number two pencil when the tape deck in my 1998 cabrio eats up the tape… yes I like old classic things… but you know what… deal with it… print media is changing and its not because OIF or Quincy Jones or CNN or whoever are horrible power hungry racists who failed at everything… its a world change happening.
I really can’t believe how many projections and silly rants this fact takes people on here on the Osho board (meditators and sannyasins??) compared to how the hip hop community, rolling stoners, and people who just lost their paychecks take the discontinuation of VIBE and the changes at Rolling Stone… It’s incredible and possibly sad.
That’s all I have to say about that.
Suparni
” there is no limit to how in depth the photographer and writer can go… cover stories can be there with a (click for full story) feature that allows for more than just surface tidbits but full stories and in Osho’s case discourses ”
Never thought from this angle..It will be beautiful
But you must admit though nothing like reading a printed magazine which is more than anything very easy on eyes..just picking up printed Oshotimes immediately puts in a relaxed state..although i also will flow with change ..
suparni you say
” I really can’t believe how many projections and silly rants this fact takes people on here on the Osho board (meditators and sannyasins??) …. It’s incredible and possibly sad”
No need to be that sad.. Everything has two sides.. As Meditators and Sannysins the people here are more natural , less conditioned when it comes to reactions , and more in touch with their weaknesses and vulnerablities.. So there is no comparion that these people express in a illogical / unpragmatic way or that the people whom mention show intelligence and flow with chnage etc.. It all depends on the context , forum and how the sharing evolves
Hi Kranti,
First, I appreciate your gentle and accepting invitation to participation; you are clearly a regular presence on this board, unlike myself. I enjoy your openness to my participation, my experience, as well as your response to my judgments in regards to our fellow contributors… hats off to your communication skills.
As I see things, you are correct, there is no need to be sad! And I would like to take it even further – everything is multifaceted, rather than “two sided.”
I chose to participate here because I have a decent amount of experience in the world of print publishing and the changes that it is going through (globally) at the moment. I chose to share my experience with what is happening on a global and commercial level so as to provide a little bit of perspective to the people here… a simple sharing.
I use my experience with VIBE and ROLLING STONE as a clear example of what is happening globally. It is hard to let go of Osho Times because we are identified with it… I simply tried to express my experience of what is happening outside of the hypersensitive world of identification, so that people may reconsider their accusations.
It is natural to identify with Osho Times (my face and story was published in OT when I was 21 and my first photo published was in OT and I read it regularly and bought it off Subuti in front of LTZ gate etc etc…) I get it…
And yet… I cannot understand how people can blame racism, incompetence, management, thirst for power… and all of the things I read above – for a change that is happening globally… ESPECIALLY when it is VIBE (a black magazine started by Quincy Jones) that is used to illustrate the change that is happening –
Imagine if the predominately black hip hop community were to say:
“Quincy Jones no longer wants hip hop to thrive because its black music, that’s why he shut it down.”
That is what reading a lot of the gibberish above sounds like to me.
Perhaps I do not understand the “illogical / unpragmatic way” of communication, but there seems to be a great deal of “illogical / unpracmatic” accusation going on… and it does not fit with the logical and pragmatic reality of what is happening in the world.
I am grateful that Osho Times existed through the ups and downs that have happened throughout the years since it started. I am grateful to those who made that possible… but “illogical / unpragmatic” accusations seem to be a bit out of line, ungrateful, and certainly far fetched considering what is happening in the real world of print publishing…
I thought to share my experience with Vibe and Rolling Stone so as to shed some light on just HOW “illogical / unpracmatic” some folks have gotten… especially in their accusations.
Cheers.
love
Suparni.
Suparni
Thanks for your beautiful comments.. This forum is not different from any other..Sometimes people come up with unreasonable comments / posts.. I have had my share of weak moments when i drifted into gibberish instead of healthy discussion..Expecting everyone to be serious all the time is not practical
Having said that i think you can help us understand one burning issue here since you are coming from publishing world .. Very sensitive topic..infact the only major issue between Osho Groups
TRADEMARK
Is there a way for two groups to come together on the usage of TRADEMARK rights
As you are aware one group believes in using Trademark completely to control publishing and another group believes in Free Osho and they feel Trademark curtails freedom..
I was just wondering whether there is a compromise formulae somewhere.. a trademark system where more space for people to contribute .. I dont even know to how to put it.. But ..
May i ask you one question just out of curiosity? Are you a sannyasin?
With Love
Kranti
Hey Kranti,
First, I do not want to be mistaken as a publishing world expert… for I am not. I studied publishing in college with Alexander Burke Jr. former president of McGraw-Hill, but my experience with magazines and publishing is now from the point of view of a photographer and reader; I am a visual artist.
This year I was published in the Italian print magazine MIND and also in the online version of MARTHA STEWART LIVING… both published works (3 and 6 photos) were taken by me for Barney’s New York display team. I am not a publishing expert… but then I really don’t think that one needs to be in order to understand the simple change that magazine publishing is going through.
Regarding trademark… after reading what people wrote here about Osho Times, I can only assume that the same kind of hype and exaggeration is going on around trademark issues.
I have my opinions about usage of the word Osho – but those opinions are just that, opinions – and they are not really worth going on and on about… but my experience with the breath energy group in mexico was just as good under the name Oceanic Breath Energy as it was Osho Breath Energy… same group, same experience… very simple.
I think it is easy to find things to complain about when you are looking for them… in regard to Osho Times or in regard to TM or whatever.
And it is also easy to do your thing and flow and share with or without the word Osho involved…. just like the Oceanic Breath Energy group in Mexico. Very simple. I liked it just as much as the Osho Breath Energy training in Pune… I don’t think its that big of a deal really! I just see there is a lot of fuss about it… hype and fuss… yawn.
I also feel that trademark (and certainly without a doubt copyright) was necessary for OIF to obtain so that publishers in the marketplace would take them seriously and print Osho’s books. I studied enough publishing to know that no publisher was going to even consider them without copyright and really they have done a tremendous job… all of the people involved.
I have plenty of friends and I have met plenty of people who have been introduced to and enjoyed Osho through those books and it is no small thing that they are even on the shelves in mainstream bookshops… in fact – its HUGE.
I don’t really think that these trademarks and copyrights are necessarily about power and corruption – just like I don’t think that OT going out of print is about racism and failure.
I think there is a great deal of idiocy going on around it though….
suparni
Thank you for the opinions.. But i value it very much.. I think you will not mind if i quote you from your post on another thread.. Hope you dont have copyrighs for the above post..
But we may see some adverse reactions also..With your permission i am putting you into trouble by quoting you
Hi Kranti,
I purposely contributed to the Osho Times thread because I feel that I have some insight from experience on the subject of magazine publishing – because I have contributed to both Osho Times and other worldwide publications on both web magazines and in print.
I do not, however, have much experience in terms of trademark or law, therefor I choose to remain silent on other threads… I don’t feel my input there can shed any light or provide any valuable insight, therefor I think it best to leave my comments IN CONTEXT – the context being Osho Times and what was said about it here. You asked me a question regarding trademark and I did the best I could to answer it – but its only the opinion of an inexperience and uneducated observer that I considered only because you asked me…
Thank you for supporting my contribution, but I don’t feel that quoting me in the context of another thread will do justice to my post or provide any insight. I do feel that perhaps my post should be left in tact and the place I see it as relevant – in the magazine thread – for I am not as experienced in trademark or the repercussions of trademark on individuals and Osho in the marketplace.
I do appreciate your asking… and I think I enjoy having a conversation in a less heated forum. I am going away on vacation soon and I don’t intend to go cruising around a whole bunch of threads on here to see what people said I said or think I said etc. This particular Osho Times subject is one of the few I feel experienced enough to contribute to.
Thanks. Cheers.
Suparni
I understand.. My main posts to these threads also about Trademarks and as such i felt i can quote you in a relevant context.. I did and It was alright..Most of the people active during this period are very sensible guys in their opinions..Even i am not an expert on this. But there are certain issues which lends itself for sharing opinions freely
Have a Great vacation..
Hi Kranti,
Wait… you said you would like to quote something I wrote in another forum – with my permission. I declined to give you that permission, and you did it anyway.
I know where not to share from now on.
Suparni.
Are you serious Suparni..? I told you i am quoting you and told people in the same forum , but another thread related to the discussion , that you also have similar opinion.. There was no problem.. It is just an opinion expressed..sorry about it if you are hurt
Cant believe this.. If as an individual you can hold onto a thought of you ,Then the whole copyrights conflicts is justified Isnt it?
When i said ‘ with your permision’ out of politeness i said.. Ofcourse it doesnt mean i will kee doing it..Common Suparni..Relax..Let go..
it is shocking that the osho times ,the heart touching and imotional magazine has ceased publishing from august.rourkela being a small place has touched the osho lovers.please try publish again.
I came across this site today:
http://www.antiprashantam.org
I wonder if people have something to say about this?
and what about this review on amazon/
Luke, bad boy!!!
I am writing this and I haven’t finished the book yet. I bought this book because Luke Mitchell was kind enough to review something I had written and he mentioned that he’d written a book so I thought I would buy it based on all the great reviews here…..
When I got the book my suspicions were aroused somewhat by the quotes and the authors of those quotes on the back of the book e.g. ‘Top Amazon Reviewer’.
Once I had started reading Mind Bomb I became even more suspicious as it is most definitely NOT a five star book, and it is odd that in 17 or so reviews there are no dissenters. The writing is okay apart from the obigatory Blackadder simile on every page and the desire to be over funny in descriptions but so far I would not say the plot is as exciting as all the other reviews here say it is.
And then I looked a bit deeper, and was struck that the reviews here sound rather similar. ‘Surely not?’ I thought – so I clicked on the ‘read all my reviews’ and guess what, most of them are that reviewer’s only review.
I think Luke Mitchell may have written all these reviews and either set up a lot of addresses or got his friend to post them – it is unusual too that so many of them, for an unknown UK author, are from abroad.
Perhaps I am ultra suspicious but it has put me off the book – I was expecting something like American Psycho or something written so brilliantly or with a breathless plot I would be left gasping, but instead on my daily commute it is an effort to read it, and it is only a page turner because I want to finish it.
Of course it was my decision to buy the book but I wish I had looked deeper into the reviews – caveat emptor as usual!