How Many Osho’s?

This is a letter we received from Shantam at FB Group-Osho commune International. Sannyasnews does not necessarily agree or disagree with the letter but we certainly feel his view should be aired.

Beloved Friends,

In 2003 Osho´s brother Shailandra (oshodhara.com) with his wife, and a mentor, started a tradition of using the prefix “Osho” with their names. Not just that, they started some certified course of Enlightenment, and at the end of it you get an enlightenment certificate and a new name, for example, Osho ABC, or Osho XYZ.

Such is the hurry and such is the greed of this company to make an enlightened product they treat it as if it was and is a breast enhancement surgery. Maybe the guys in this particular spiritual business can feel a bit happier with their “wi wi” by becoming Osho. It is all a question of feeling good, feeling useful and, naturally, to enjoy admiration with humility.

But in these past five years, one guy has even gone further! He calls himself “Osho Rajneesh.” Is there a limit to human debauchery? Are the people who claimed to have found their original face, so dumb that they cannot get a suitable name for their firm?

“Osho or Buddha”, is not a question of copy right or trade mark, it is question of aesthetic sense, a basic question of ethics. People in the reality shows do not simply become Elton John or Madonna by singing their songs. By reading a remarkable novel, ShantaRam, is it appropriate that I Shantam Prem start selling myself as shantaRam.

At least Osho’s brother, with his 100% Osho dress and beard, and the same genetic face can claim to be playing Osho on the theatre of life. But With his attire, this new Mr. Rajneesh looks more like a carbon copy of the carbon copy of Acharya Rajneesh or Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.
Though personally, if I can suggest him a name, it would be “Hannah Montana Rajneesh.” This name really has much more global potential and fits very finely with his personality. Whatsoever his wish, I request him to show a bit of common sense and stop calling his made in China watch, The Rolex!
with love
Shantam
FB Group-Osho commune International

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324 Responses to How Many Osho’s?

  1. frank says:

    how does that old song go?…

    there`s no business like osho business
    i tell you it is so
    everything about it is appealing
    and any old nonsense goes

    and there`s no people ike osho people
    they`ll worship any guy who`s weird
    they`re looking for enlightenment
    but they just end up with a beard

    oh,there`s no business like osho business……

  2. Anthony thompson says:

    a friend did made thisa parody:
    I do not know if the pictures will come up:

    Personal pictures of Sw. Rajneesh “The Osho impersonator´s carrer”

    Here we have a picture of Rajneesh with the Gurdjieff impersonator at the International impersonator´s conference.

    Here with two Kabir Bedi impersonators at the same conference

    In a nice chat with Andrew Cohen look alike.

    Finally with the dalai lama best double.

    Three of the best “ Osho look alike” pictures. Note that the sandals are not so well chosen, neither the robe, but the hands gesture is almost the same… the eyes are not bad at all.

    A bit of history…

    Here we have him as Rasputín… early nineties

    Putting on a little weight for his early caracterisation of rasputín

    Making his best “I rule russia” face as rasputín

    As Andrew Cohen while living in LA. ( late eighties)

    As john Holmes in Debie does Dallas, the remake.

  3. Anthony thompson says:

    ok. they didn´t
    so bad they were really funny
    anthony

  4. Swami Shunyam Kartar says:

    You know, all sannyasins are going in the same direction, or at least trying to. So we need to live together, get along together, and give each other enough space to be comfortable on that road. Not everybody is perfect, and I don’t think we should be looking for perfect people.

    And let’s be honest. There’s not a business anywhere that is without problems. Business is complicated and imperfect. Every business everywhere is staffed with imperfect human beings and exists by providing a product or service to other imperfect human beings.

  5. oshobob says:

    “FB Group — Osho commune International” ?! Anyone ever heard of this outfit? Tony, you’re the Oshologist in Residence here…anything on this? Osho Commune International went defunct a decade ago, and morphed into Osho Meditation Resort, everyone knows that, I’m sure. Funny, this “Shantam” seems to be in a time warp of some kind, can’t even get it up to capitalise the “C” in his ‘commune’. ‘Full of Bullshit’ that ‘FB Group’ is perhaps. Casting aspersions on people using the name “Osho”, and denigrating “Made in China?” Come on ‘Shantam’, get a grip. Zen itself was Made in China, and your real “Osho” pinched his name (frank, isn’t that how the British say it when someone just takes something without asking — ‘pinched’ it?) , and all his Zen stories straight out of the Middle Kingdom. Not even so much as a “Thank you, Charlie Chan.” Aesthetics aside, Osho Shailendra and Osho Rajneesh at least had some guts to put themselves on a public stage, as did Osho himself. Who ever said spiritual work was aesthetic anyway?

    Cheers to all at Sannyasnews,
    have truely enjoyed your posts over the past few years,
    oshobob

  6. Andreas Roth says:

    Incredible India as they advertise… I have great acknowledgment and thankfulness for all of the carnival oshos: they making it clear to everbody what enlightenment is.

  7. frank says:

    that`s right,andreas.
    but seriously,you`ve got to admit -sannyas has got talent!
    in these days,with tribute bands and acts springing up everywhere,i would say that “rajneesh too” is right up there with the bootleg beatles,think floyd and retro tull.

    also its not a bad piece of method acting.
    maybe dustin hoffman could have done it better,but it would be close.
    i have nominated him for an oscar.
    the movie “osho”need look no further for its leading man.

    osho`s brother on the other hand smacks too much of the osmonds or the jacksons – too bubblegum for me.

  8. frank says:

    the perfect disciple

    by

    baba free frank

    a white guy,john,is talking to a black guy,winston whilst having a piss in a public toilet. he cant help seeing the size of winston`s dick,so john asks him:”hey man,do you think there is any way that i could get mine to be that size?”
    “oh yeah,”replies the black guy”it`s real easy”
    “how`s that?”enquires john
    “all you have to do is hang a heavy weight ion it for a while,say,a cfew weeks or so” explains leroy.
    “well,thanks man” john puts his tiny todger back in his pants and walks off ,vowing to put his new found knowledge into practise.
    three weeks later he meets leroy in the same toilet.
    leroy ignores him at first,but when john greets him ,he asks”how`s it goin?”
    “well,i followed your instructions,and my dick hasnt got any longer yet,but ,”he ads enthusiastically, “it has gone black”

  9. Andreas Roth says:

    Frank, you are right. I think these great disciples should open up a new actors studio in New York. Stanislavski would have been proud of them, as they easily cross cultural boundaries and developed an international reach with their spiritual realism.

  10. mulla says:

    So what u gonna do Shantam ?
    Just like u have the right to criticize him, he has the right to wear the osho name & all the mimics that follows. All these fighting grips wont lead to anywhere but feeding repression of the egos & the minds. People have now the CHOICE to choose what they want…osho mula, osho obama, osho shantam,osho international resort, osho commune, osho kuku, osho cat, osho mac, osho windows, osho tofu osho toilet….it’s their freedom. & u too have the freedom to continue criticize or bring facts about them… It’s real food for growth.

  11. Anthony thompson says:

    well,
    I have always thought that any lack of originality is a deficiency trip.,
    Osho used to take pride on saying he was never anyone´s disciple or follower, he took pride on discontinuing himself from any tradition, even his own; he took pride in dressing like a star trek dragg queen in the last years ( fabulous clothes he called it); on wearing a wool hat in 12 degrees celcious( that was the temperature of the atmosphere around him).
    He always was a bit concerned about his disciples calling themselves enlightenment, he even was worried that someone would say he was channeling him, so he said Anando would be his medium, to this day Anando does not know what that meant ( good he did not say “kaveesha would be my mediun”… think of the concecuences!!!)
    But what he could never predict was that people would actually impersonate him, like shailendra and rajneesh( archarya version). so now we have Osho for eternity. In a way it is good. It will be just enough to know that someone is calling himself Osho or rajneesh to know that he is not the right guy to follow… some kind of “all -proof guru-test.”
    greetings
    anthony

  12. Visarjana says:

    We can’t compare Madonna with Osho. The term ‘Osho’ does not refer to Rajneesh Chandra Mohan Jain (and Buddha does not refer to Siddhartha Gautama). Osho (like Buddha) is a state of total awareness. Our mind can separate Elton John from Hannah Montana (in fact we live in duality) but if we separate Osho from another man (or woman) is a nonsense.
    You’re Osho too!!! I’m Osho too!!! But we don’t remember our real nature…

  13. Wow!
    My article is published at sannyasnews.com. Small town Indian in me is feeling happy.
    Right now sannyasnews is the most interesting sannyas portal. Hot discussions, leg pulling and Saturday night satires are the food for thoughts and no thoughts. Take these things away and seekers from the school of Osho loose their USP. Take the scratching and sarcastic tones away, even Osho will look like an accountant of “Mr. Crown Prince”, the sole custodian of His dream and a meditation resort private limited.
    When the main organisation propagates the truth of its founder in a selective and fragmented way, when one interpretation takes the shape of the whole, It is like eating a leg piece and saying i have eaten a chicken. I don´t really know whether the half truth is better than a lie or not.
    To open any kind of business or activity is a fundamental right of everybody.
    Within months of Osho leaving the body, one sannyasin Samdarshi arose from the ashes to fill the vacuum and to create his independent personality, many satsang givers followed him during the next years. Two of my Poona days colleagues Akhil and Divya (www.oshonow.com) are doing quite well in the enLIDLment business(Thanks Frank, for the name).Around five to seven Channels in India are bombarding wise lectures about God and Meditation 24X7.
    Eckhart Tolle did not even hang his flier at German Bakery Poona and still has created a well nitched place around Oprah Winfrey. It is all beautiful, it is all leagl. Competion around the different products give a better value to customers money.
    My bone of contention is Rajneesh and Shailandra, the two competitors joined by a common thread called “Osho” and the people who are running the show at 17, Koregaon Park, Pune. Something around their business model makes me dizzy and nauseatic. I am sure many others feel the same.

  14. oshobob says:

    As I told Ma Anando 2 years ago, Osho himself deserves the Academy Award — Best Actor, Best Producer, Best Director, Best Screenplay, etc. And his sannyasins should get the Best Supporting Actor and Actress awards.

    And the movie is not even over yet. It’s that good.

    As to Stanislavski, he told his students they needed 4 levels of skills to make the grade in putting on a performance — include the: 1, interesting and entertaining. 2, important. 3. necessary. 4. absolutely essential. I would say Osho was firing on all 4 of those cylinders.

    Bravo, Osho!

    Encore!

  15. Horatio says:

    Right on Shantam….. . it’s kind of sad really… like the guys who dress up as fake cops looking for power and attention….

  16. Ma Gyan Darshana says:

    On Sunday morning in the first week of October 2008 here in Perú, I had the opportunity to attend
    the Ceremony of Initiation into Sannyas twelve people, that the Initiation took place Acharyashree Osho Maitreya, we sit in a circle and called for a one of those who were to begin in Sannyas,
    was calling for one of those people, put his hands on his head and gave his name Sannyas. Then he told them to new sannyasins saying I am not your Master, your Master is Osho, meditate every day, and read the speeches of Osho.
    He asked his address, phone number and photo to each and they would send by mail to each of Osho Mala.
    As you will realize I am witnessing the work of Oshodhara International here in Perú.
    Beoshos,
    Darshana

  17. Anthony thompson says:

    As I said before:
    I have always thought that any lack of originality is a deficiency trip.,
    Osho used to take pride on saying he was never anyone´s disciple or follower, he took pride on discontinuing himself from any tradition, even his own; he took pride in dressing like a star trek dragg queen in the last years ( fabulous clothes he called it); on wearing a wool hat in 12 degrees celcious( that was the temperature of the atmosphere around him).
    He always was a bit concerned about his disciples calling themselves enlightenment, he even was worried that someone would say he was channeling him, so he said Anando would be his medium, to this day Anando does not know what that meant ( good he did not say “kaveesha would be my mediun”… think of the concecuences!!!)
    But what he could never predict was that people would actually impersonate him, like shailendra and rajneesh( archarya version). so now we have Osho for eternity. In a way it is good. It will be just enough to know that someone is calling himself Osho or rajneesh to know that he is not the right guy to follow…

    If anyone has something to share… no need to do it under anyone´s umbrella.

    ” There will be no succesor. I do not want to burden my people with this kind of Crap.
    If anyone says they are coming representing me, know they are explointing you.
    I can not come, I will be dead, gone. Once I leave this body, I will dissolve in existence.
    No one will be here to represent me.
    I want you all to be free, even from me.
    If you feel you need the guidance of a master, find a living one.
    Do not worship and image of myself.
    The sannyasins are just fellow travelers.
    beware of exploiters, they are always around… they are already around.”
    The last tement volume 2

    So I guess the old man didn´t need any after life P.R.

    grteetings
    anthony

  18. Heraclitus says:

    Anthony, you will know that someone called Judith Thompson wrote a book called “The way of the Heart” about sannyas in the eighties. She was an academic from Lancaster University, and visited Medina Rajneesh at the time. .
    Not a bad book, as books about sannyas go, though misses a lot too.
    Are you a relative of this lady?!?

  19. oshobob says:

    I agree with Visarjana in the post saying the word “Osho” is available for anyone to use — just live up to the name! That’s the challenge.

    This word has a long and illustrious history, which I’ve documented on my website http://www.livingworkshop.net , under the page “What is an Osho?” Believe it or not, its origin could actually be the Indian “namaste”, translated into Chinese, and then transliterated into Japanese centuries later. Used by the Chinese Zen masters since the Tang dynasty era — circa 700 CE.

    Osho Shailendra is out there — he comes across as very clear and forthright in his insights. See his YouTube videos and see for yourself.

    Osho Rajneesh is way out there — running around Russia bare-chested in a red lungi with his silent woman shadow partner….I think he has more chutzpah alone than a convention of rabbis at their yearly national get-together in Las Vegas. You gotta give it to him just on raw intestinal fortitude.

    And Anthony Thompson…cutting and pasting your own lengthy previous post into a new post of the same day…it just doesn’t seem like something a published PhD academic would do. Odd. I’m starting to wonder about your purported identity just a bit…

  20. Anthony thompson says:

    I know Judith Thompson´s book… I read it.
    Perhaps we are related in a very distant past. But I am southamerican, born in southamerica… I just happen to have an english last name. My family came from England at the end of the 19th century. English is not my first language.
    Once Cristopher calder said I write like a ” gas station attendant”… I think he is right. My english is just not good enough.
    greetings
    Anthony

  21. Kranti says:

    Is this some kind conspiracy or something?..So many people trying to call themselves as Osho XXX. May be they want to frustrate current owners of copy rights & trademarks. Otherwise so many people cant go nuts at the same tme.. Ofcourse these guys can convince themselves that they had to save Osho by doing this impersonation exercise or they are in so much love with Osho that they have to do this etc etc. So much for awareness..

  22. Horatio says:

    Question to these Osho’s: do you think you are enlightened?

  23. Vishakha says:

    Never heard such stupid thing in my life. Putting Osho prefix in the names and certificate of enlightenment..how absurd ! So, I wonder how many people are getting enlightenment everyday. How sad !Osho sannyasins are selling enlightement certificates and there are bunch of fools out there, who are buying it….This is extremely hilarious than the Mulla Nassuridin jokes Osho used to tell..lol

  24. frank says:

    you are not going to believe this,guys, but when i got up this morning,i slipped over in the bathroom,fell hard on my bum.the impact of the fall seemed to hammer my base chakra,sending a rush of light up my backside and right thru to my skull and way off into the cosmos.
    i thought: “fuck me,i`m enlightened”
    and i am.
    fancy that.
    i`m in the club,now
    -osho frank

  25. Anthony thompson says:

    For me the subject is simple. Anyone declaring himself as awake and using as a promotion strategy the name osho, or rajneesh is simply a good enough argument to run away from the guy.
    Anyone ” falling” in the trap of this “successor” , for me is not intelligent enough to invite him/ her for supper.
    Actually, anyone involved in any klind of ” following” is just not intelligent enough to invite him/ her for a cup of tea.
    greetings
    anthony

  26. Andreas Roth says:

    Osho used so many things, it is hard to find something new now. Osho not only declared himself awake. Osho took orange cloth from traditional sannyas and applied it to men and women, thus upseting the public (east as west), he took the mala traditionally used in Hinduism and Buddhism and applied his own photograph (!). He also applied his name to a varitey of therapies without asking for admission, he changed his name several times and finally took up a japanese name which is a traditional titel in Zen-Buddhism and before even considered taking on the name “Buddha”. He declared people enlightened for politics and later on canceled it. He took from all kind of books, freely mingling his own ideas with it etc. etc… how come there is all this fuss about others using the title “Osho” or declaring themselfs enligtened or sell enlightenment certificates. You think that is awkward? No, it is all but consistent. That’s just the wheel turning. Don’t whine, be a fool all the way… I am shure if there is any nonsens left, it will be used by some oshoite for public agitation…

  27. Anthony thompson says:

    Dear Roth. All you say is just right. However Osho never said to be anyone´s medium, representative or succesor. ” I am my own man” he used to say.
    He took not only all you say from other sourcdes but also titles of books like” in search of the miraculous”, “light on the path”, etc.
    However what came out was his own trip, his own thing, unique in that sense.
    It is impoissible to start something completly new in this respect nowadays. we all take everything from other sources. the point is who am I representing. that is the issue.
    He never said to be continuing anybody´s work. Actually he over stressed his uniqueness. ” a toltal discontinuity with the past”, he called it.
    geetings
    anthony

  28. oshobob says:

    Good comments Andreas — all right on target. Osho set the stage for all these current continuations of the taking of traditions, remaking them, and then sitting back and seeing what happens. There are actually 15,000 bona fide Oshos in the Zen tradition, recorded by name in the Zen books throughout its history — and that’s before Osho took the name for himself. And by the way, who ever told anyone that “osho” means an “enlightened” one? The word “osho” has a long and illustrious history, going all the way back to the Chinese translation for “namaste”, and transliterated by the Japanese into their native pronunciation. It does not have the meaning of “enlightened” at all.

    Anthony, I’m really starting to wonder about you, who you really are. Cutting and pasting an extended piece of text from your own previous post here — it just doesn’t seem like what a published PhD academic would do. Odd. Who are you really? You don’t have to repeat that South American story again, please…cut us some slack ‘Prof.’ Give us the skinny on the ‘AT’ nom de guerre.

    Osho frank, good to see you coming out of the closet finally and declaring yourself an Osho. Hope your ‘bum” is OK. You only got one you know. That was a helluva exicitng anecdote though, with the energy rushing, the chakras flushing, the skull exploding. I never knew such things happen in a conservative country like England. But at least you became an osho in the end, that’s a good thing — a vast improvement over someone just trying to replay the John Lennon persona 30 years later. Yoko would be proud.

    Prasanto, you crapped out pretty quick on the osho thing. No guts, no glory, so the saying goes. Maybe next life for you. Talk to osho frank, it’s a little scary, but worth it in the end.

    Funny though, everyone comes down quite quickly on the men — Osho Shailendra and Osho Rajneesh, and the rest — but it seems to be “hands off” on Osho Priya, Shailendra’s wife. You guys feeling a bit queesy about roughing up a woman on sannyasnews. She is so beautiful and has courage to match. Maybe she intimidates all you boys here.

    Cheers,
    oshobob

  29. Anthony thompson says:

    what is an AT nome the guerre? Nome the guerre I know , but AT?
    Regarding copying and pasting… yoiu do not seem to know the professor profesion so well, we get credits for basing our work on other people´s, why not my own?
    No southamerican story… jut pure truth. I am From Chile!!
    greetings
    anthony

  30. Horatio says:

    oshobob: so you say Osho is just another name like namaste,,, ? and about the enlightenment certificate: would you agree it’s just a meaningless certificate as far as any real indicator of enlghtenment? as for Osho himself, could we say he was enlightened and your not? Shed some clarity on where you “Oshos” stand…. or at least speak for yourself on this subject… thanks

  31. oshobob says:

    Anthony, now I’m REALLY starting to wonder about you.
    “AT” are the initials of your name — Anthony Thompson. Remember?

    Chile, you say? What ever happened to Ma Prem Isabel, I think she was from Chile. Quite a well known sannyasin at the Ranch, who all of sudden disappeared from the radar screen. Any current whearabouts of her? I would really like to know.

    And also, I noticed someone asked you on this sannyasnews forum a month or so ago about your credentials — what university you completed your PhD at, your thesis itself on the Osho phenomenon, etc., but you never responded. What’s the skinny on that Tony? I would like to read the whole PhD thesis if it exists, as I’m sure other Osho sannyasins and friends would. Where can we get it? What university and year did you complete it? Usually academics are quite happy to let the whole world read their publications. Don’t be shy, AT.

    Horatio, here’s to your questions:

    “oshobob: so you say Osho is just another name like namaste,,, ?”

    No, not JUST another name, Horatio. They are very very deep and important words, both of them. I have an entire etymological expose of the word “Osho” on my website, http://www.livingworkshop.net, under “What is an Osho?” You can check that out if you like.

    ” and about the enlightenment certificate: would you agree it’s just a meaningless certificate as far as any real indicator of enlghtenment? ”

    Yes, I would say it’s meaningless — no doubt about it. This happened in Japan too as Zen collapsed into formalities — “enlightenment” certificates were issued as the Zen monasteries were taken over by family members on a father to son inheritence basis usually — but not always. But remember, Osho used to give a “sannyas” initiation paper to everyone who “took” sannyas. ‘Swami’ — master of oneself– and then this or that sannyas name. Pretty much the same thing really.

    “as for Osho himself, could we say he was enlightened and your not? ”

    Sure, you could say that if you want.

    “Shed some clarity on where you “Oshos” stand…. or at least speak for yourself on this subject… thanks”

    “Osho” is a word, like any other word — live up to the traditional usage of it, or make it something more. The real challenge is in using it for the advancement of something — deeply spiritual or a deep joke, is there much of a difference between the two?

    Cheers,
    oshobob

  32. Anthony thompson says:

    Dear Mr bob. write to my mail athompsonphd@hotmail.com and I will send you my resume with pleasure. It is not very aesthetic to do it here. or go to zoom information under “Anthony THompson”. Regarding my phd thesis. In chile they are published in internet, not at least when i completed it. Now some universities are doing it, buty by no means all of them. so sorry it is not available.
    Ragarding my work you can contact “Uno mIsmo magazine”
    Regarding prem Isabel. I heard some years ago she was in Australia, but if you are interested I can find out and I let you know also by mail,
    Now who are you… mr. bob?

    you can also check:
    http://truthaboutosho.blogspot.com/

    Greetings
    anthony

  33. frank says:

    well,he beat the legendary chris `the truth` calder on points.
    he went the distance with the fearsome raging bull rockythustra roth.
    how will twoton tony `the hispanic who causes panic` deal with this vicious new challenger for his world heavyweight academic osho expert crown?
    yes,that`s osho `the sumo` bob in the blue corner,all the way from townsville usa.
    he`s tough,he`s mean,he`s already insulted a few limeys,questioned twoton tony`s parentage and ridiculed the concept of enlightenment – yes sir,he`s looking ready to rumble,no doubt about that….
    they`re off,my god,oshobob swings wildly at twoton tony,misses him completely,bounces over the ropes and clean out of the ring flat on his face…..
    this is sensational………

    6,7,8,9……

  34. Anthony thompson says:

    well bob. as far as prem isabel is concerned. what was last heard from her was she is was in Tahiti living with a beloved, had a kid ,and is somehow retired from the sannyas world. she came to chile last year to visit her family.
    anything else?
    anthony

  35. Horatio says:

    thankyou oshobob for your response. Yes, osho was enlightened, No doubt there. Why hang onto the movement if you don’t believe that? It is so much more than some self-help phenomenon or a means to socialize….. And what are you using the name Osho to advance ?

  36. oshobob says:

    thanks for that on Isabel, doc. I met her a few times at the Twinkie reception center at the Ranch, and was taken by her dark silent beauty. Always thought she might be in it for the long haul, but Tahiti and a family sound good too.

    no, nothing else i guess…oh, except the lead article on this ‘thread’. “Shantam from FB-Group of Osho commune International” . Ever heard of this guy or this group? Sounds a little fishy to me. Didn’t Osho Commune International fold up years ago? FB-Group? Was that one of the Tantra groups from Poona 1 days–”Find-a-Babe” and orgasm your troubles away?

    Just kidding.

    who am I?–well, I’m surely not Mr. Bob, doc. I’m oshobob. or just bob is fine with me. ‘nuf said. My work is for free public access to anyone in the world on my website. Check it out if you have some time. I only have a public high school education, and was a real car mechanic at one time. Fortunately, my English is a lot better than yours. I never use references for quotes, and I have always disliked academic types — though I must say, I thought Osho becoming a professor, pulling a salary for it, and then spending all his time traveling around India talking about meditation and truth was just fantastic. He should be a role model for all professors in the future. Quite a guy.

    How’s that frank…? Enough material for you for another round — just let me know if you need some more….

  37. oshobob says:

    Horatio, how did you ever get the idea I don’t think Osho is enlightened? Just because frank embedded that in his ringside commentary post? See what happens, frank, if you combine literary freedom with blow-by-blow fight talk? A dangerous combo for sure.

    Horatio, by the way, are you in any way related to Horatio Alger, the well-known American novelist of the 19th century? Just kidding.

    By using the name “osho” I advance the name of Osho. There are many other reasons too, but Horatio (are you Veet Horatio?), we are not really that good of friends yet for me to tell all, if you get my drift….

    I actually started it to do a “in your face” to OIF and the trademark thing, but Klaus Steeg at OIF didn’t bite for the bait. A super cool German. I felt a little let down, to be honest.

    frank knows I’m looking for a street fight. frank is sharp. frank is funny. But one day, you’ll see, I will outfrank frank too. I can fight fights in parallel rings — twoton Tony in Ring 1, frank in Ring 2, Veet Horatio in ring 3, and so on and so forth. I learned this strategy from the Chinese Wushu masters — the more adversaries you have, the easier it is to defeat them. Just one opponent is difficult. Osho taught this too.

    Cheers,
    bob

  38. Horatio says:

    Bob,, yes that’s better….. you “advance the name of Osho” that’s good….. beware of Oshobob sneaking in the back door………don’t trust him….watch him

  39. amrito says:

    Interesting things I’ve been missing out on.

    OshoBob, your website is absolutely fabulous. Its quite the work and very resourceful. Is it a collection and research you;ve been doing for many years?

    My opinion on Sw. Rajneesh initially was very negative because of the whole carbon-copy things going on. However, after biting my tongue for quickly judging him, I took a look a bit deeper.

    So his name started out as Rajnish and sannyasins started complainin to Osho in the late 80s about him being imittated, and them being irritated. So Osho in his usual positively deviant way shut the mouths of many by renaming Rajnish, Sw. Rajneesh.

    So the guys no newbie trying to scoobie off Osho’s new-found-new-age success. He’s always been kind of annoying to sannyasins.

    But I dont believe he’s renamed any Osho Meditations, edited Osho Books, explicitly declared himself enlightened or a successor. These are just words we’re putting into his mouth.

    Sure hes a weird guy with his hair-do and gettup. But comman, he doesn’t really look like Osho nor dress like Osho.

    Osho never wore a maroon cloth around his waste, nor did he have a full head of hair. Only in the early days did Osho roam around bare chester. The only similarity between Sw. Rajneesh and Osho is the beard and somewhat the eyebrows (AND THE NAME).

    Now if the rumour about Sw. Rajneesh putting his own photos on his rediculously long ass malas…than I’ll have to re-adjust what I think about him.

    Now to Osho Dhara. These guys are complete scams from the get-go. This is not opinion, its fact based on evidence. I met many Osho Dharians who really dont know much about Osho except for his pictures.

    Osho Dhara is a trinity of enlighted folkes–two bozos and queen B. Its a business of Gurudom. They have an examination within their meditation programs which involves multiple-choice type questions. I smell bullshit.

    They’ve changed every one of Osho’s meditations and have done it in the most idiotic way. They’ve made Nadhabrahma into Brahmanadh. Wow.

    But the funny thing is, they dont really take alot of heat from Pune & the OIF. Osho Dhara has even taken their holy dung to national TV without interruption.

    But OIF seems to be hellbent in shutting down Osho World, Osho Tapoban, Osho ______ but not Osho Dhara. And if it isn’t for Osho World, Osho Tapoban or other Osho centers within India, this Osho Dhara thing would have surely plagued everything about Osho.

    They’ve been exposed directly many times for their ongoing idiotic mis-representations. For example, at one point they had a website for people who became “oshos” (enlightened). These people got phone calls letting them know they got enlightened. They had to attend a 1-month course and pay a hefty fee. Since than the Osho Dhara folkes have been hit pretty hard by intelligent Osho sannyasins and those fooled by its lies.

    Anyhow, Shantam I really cant find ur facebook page. But u know, I dont really find attackin Osho Dhara publicly a viable way to spread awareness. In fact many people will quickly see the falseness by being introduced to Osho;s books and discourses (something Osho dhara doesnt do much).

    Soo…backtracking…OIF maybe beating Osho Dhara out by simply making Osho available. Hmmm..Same with Osho Tapoban & Osho World.

    But..Sw. Rajneesh, he is a bit odd, but as far as I know, he’s not a complete moron. I’m sure I could talk to him face to face and let him know how I feel, and he wouldnt get his body guards to beat me down. I think we’d have a pretty good time.

    My 2 cents.

  40. Andreas Roth says:

    Why this tread? Obviously there are some new sickening oddities going on in the Osho scene. Actually OIF tried to avoid it, as they try to whitewash Osho and make him digestible. They have tried their best and now their well intended attempts are falling apart. But I think they don’t have much of a chance in the long run anyway. So better let go. It is so obvious and simple, anyone with a clear mind and some sensitivity can see. Vishakha I agee with you completely, you seem to have the sense I am talking about. My statements “how come there is all this fuss about others using the title “Osho” or declaring themselfs enligtened or sell enlightenment certificates” and “Don’t whine, be a fool all the way… ” certainly were ironocally. The whole thing is sad as Vishakha wrote, even if it has a lot of funny sides to it too (as in any religion). Ridiculous impersonators are a mere consequence of a wrong assertion and a wrong assumption in the first place and a mixture of superstition and business following. The original and the copy are interdependent. It happens in every religion, even in zen where mastership may be inherited and certificates were given too. Many seem to try saving their master to their own inner property, to maintain idendity. Otherwise the whole thing was an experiment based on a fiction. Osho started with the intention to undermine lies but ended up in a net of lies and illusionary views, because he could not give up a wrong assumption about himself. No wonder that his disciples are holding on to the complex. But most probably science will never find any god and there will be no enlightenment either and the messiah won’t come. Most of this simply is a way to exaggerate your live and give meaning to it. But so many atrocities and oddities come along with religious concepts. We pay a high price for this kind of illusions. The evolution of the brain and the cosmos are incredible phenonema. No wonder that it takes a long time for the complexity of reflection to evolve. Meanwhile I suggest, keep it cool, live honest to what you are, feel and see. Without all the superstitions, believes and exaggeration. Maybe you can’t feel so great, but in fact we are not so great. Look at the cosmos. Look at mans history! How small we are. The journey has just begun. And Osho will not be the final conclusion too.

  41. shantam prem says:

    Hi Amrito,
    Please, check my facebook page, “shantam astro” and add me as your friend too.
    As i have heard Osho saying something like in the eternity even the ants are moving towards enlighenment. It is our fundamental birth right. What a motivation this Master is creating. He is bringing this exclusive product out of the hands of some elite group of people.
    So My bone of contention is simple, just by getting puberty a dog may start feel like calling himself MR.Lion.but the fact remains he is a dog on the heat. Flooded rivers don’t become Indian Ocean, these rivers have the right to feel elivated but problem comes when they start calling the map companies.
    In Private, we all have the right to touch our body and being, but once we are on the public arena, a code of decency is required. The neo gurus should remember that after lives of work, they have got their enlightenment. Spend some time to digest it, create a original packing, may be hire some PR firm, and sell it in an aesthetic form.
    In this website, few years ago a thought and heart provoking article was published by RANI. Beloved ones, please enjoy that honest work of inner expressions.

  42. Andreas Roth says:

    Just google “osho dhara” or look at

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.


    . They are even topping poor old maharishi jogi, unbelievable. I am really out of words, completely enlightened. Now there seems to be only one way left, lets all call ourselfs oshoxyz and declare ourselfs mahastupid… the world will be greatful to all this incomprehensible emanations of truth and intelligence and finally be saved…

  43. Anthony thompson says:

    My god roth! I followed your link and I laughed all the way through. It looks like a saturday night life satire of osho, or an indian guru… the speech… amazement. anyone is buyin this thing.
    very funny.
    anthony

  44. Andreas Roth says:

    Hi Anthony, let’s be good enemies, why don’t you just call me Andreas. At least, we seem to have found some common grounds. Even if we differ in dignosis of the cause of the disease, we seem to have a common understanding of the astonishing symtoms :-) And I am also positive about laughter being the only medicine which helps here.

  45. Konrad says:

    Andreas, sure no god, no enlightenment, just your big self-assured ego… Sure there are idiots claiming enlightenment, and that was a funny link, but go sit with Samdarshi, Baba Purinand, Swaha, and many others and they will show you the mirror of yourself, which could be scary for you and your world view…. or worse yet, you simply won’t get it……

  46. Anthony Thompson says:

    Well Andreas. some time ago you asked me not to call you “my friend”, due to the fact I was not. But I am a friendly person… so no problem.
    Thanks for the link I enjoyed it a lot. I am showing it to my girlfriend to have a good laugh.
    regarding Konrad. I met one of the people you mentioned. Samdarshi looked like an honest man, silent, centered.
    I do not know about enlightenment, so I an not say.
    greetings
    anthony

  47. Anthony Thompson says:

    One last thing Andreas. do you still have the same email? because I want to send you something that a friend of mine did making fun of all this topic that I think you and Isha will enjoy.
    greetings
    anthony

  48. oshobob says:

    Glad you like my website amrito. Yes, it’s a culmination of many years work — 10 years of the China stuff, 20 of the Osho on Zen and Tao, and 30 with Osho.

    All the “oshos” out there are doing great work. Give them their due. In a better world, everyone will be able to take off their costumes, and just be natural. But that world hasn’t come yet — it has to be created. And the oshos are helping to create it. So sit back and enjoy the show. Or better yet, take as big a part in the production as you can. This whole thing will ratchet up pretty quickly, so get a seat, strap yourselves in, and get ready for a wild ride. We will see who has done their meditations and who has not.

    oshobob

  49. oshobob says:

    Holy cow!
    rockythustra roth and twoton tony are getting chummy.
    “let’s be friends”, exchanging email addresses, bringing their wives and girlfriends into the posts.
    Oh my God! The old pugs are punch drunk for sure! What next? Getting together at the local pub for a few pints of beer, and reminicsing about the old fights, the old battles, slapping each other on the back, laughing and crying over their suds. How sad. How pathetic.

    Come on, frank, you gotta do something about this….
    Next thing you know these guy’ll be at Veeresh’s Humaniversity embraced in a full-body man-to-man 15 minute “I love you” hug, with stupid looking smiles on their pockmarked, battered boxer faces. Someone with a cell phone camera might even snap a picture of the maudlin site. It might get in an Osho sannyasin history book, God forbid!
    frank, do something! …you know these guys, get ‘em back in the ring where they belong. This is sick.

  50. Konrad says:

    Anthony,, nice to here your open minded….

  51. Andreas Roth says:

    Sorry to explain a joke, but Anthony addressed me with “my god roth” and I offered him to use my first name. And I did not say let’s be good friends, but let’s be good enemies. But Anthony, you know I like you (I on purpose do not say I love you, otherwise what these dirty guys will think).

    oshobob I am shure the whole thing will ratchet up soon. As an old prophet I have foreseen the diluvian since long and the public is eagerly awaiting something new from the world of osho too. So the great flood will arise and be a test of our meditation and humor, as it was for Noah and his barge. But how many do you think will want to live in the coming world being created by all the oshos, when the flood has dried up. I guess you do not intend to hold an election rally and vote on this?

    I am also wondering about frank. Has he become uninspired since he fell on bis butt and became enlightened?

  52. Kranti says:

    I just happend to see this oshodara website..there are few photos of Ma Osho priya’s birth day celebrations.. See the colorfulness and dress and the faces.. My God ..Absolutely Funny Guys..These are great people who make people laugh by acting like jokers.. what a sacrifice?

  53. Andreas Roth says:

    There is more “fun” ahead for shure. Absolutely Funny. Same fun as in other religions. Guys, I know you won’t believe it, but they are serious about it… trouble is brewing….

    Look at this, those in the front rows uniformly even wearing headgears (made me remember Sheelas mascerade in Orgeon).

    https://www.oshodhara.org.in/NewsReader.aspx?NewsID=5

    Or here, all these indians seriously listening and Osho Shailendra giving press conference:

    https://www.oshodhara.org.in/NewsReader.aspx?NewsID=6

    The website menu “Masters” leads to the submenu: “Osho”, “Osho Siddhartha”, “Osho Shailendra”, “Osho Priya”… all masters certainly.

    And groups like: Acharya Shree 1 and Acharya Shree 2:

    Acharya Shree 1: This is a 6-days Group, which prepares Acharyashrees of Oshodhara, who can conduct Dhyai Samadhi Group. Entry in this group is granted to the Members of Oshodhara Maitri Sangha after completing Acharya Pragya and Adwait Samadhi.

    Acharya Shree 2: This is a 6-days Group, which prepares Acharyashrees of Oshodhara, who can conduct Dhyai Samadhi and Surati Samadhi Groups independently and asociate in higher samadhi programs with Sadguru Trivir. Entry in this group is granted to the Members of Oshodhara Maitri Sangha after completing Acharyashree-1.

    And providing more then 45 osho books for free as pdf on https://www.oshodhara.org.in/LitBooks.aspx.

    Trouble is brewing….

  54. frank says:

    yes,andreas,since my enlightenment,i have definitely lost it.
    but when you think about it,when you reach the top there`s only one way to go…
    i`m sure oshobob`s wu-sushi masters taught him that,too….

    still,the (o)show must go on……

    the auditions for “oshos got talent” keep coming -

    rajneesh`s “walking in zen” routine is mildly amusing,i must admit. rather like peter sellers/eddie izzard playing osho doing silly walks with the inmates of a lithuanian electro-shock hospital.

    but these oshodhara guys?
    someone should tell them that sticking a tea-cosy on your head as a sign of enlightenment really is well…..old hat.
    this modern incarnation of the three stooges is about as riveting as watching a turd on a stick.
    and if they are serious about expanding their share of the the cosmos,the front man needs a new wag,some chick who`s a bit more kylie than kali…

    X

  55. Anthony Thompson says:

    Now this is too much: I had seen the site ( thank you Andreas). This is the best! I am so sorry Osho is dead , he would have enjoyed it so much.
    One of the guys look like Meher baba with a bright yellow Osho hat. I think the head gears of the audience are in Laxmi´s memory… or not? Incredible mixture!
    And we are seeing the birth of a new verb; Acharyaing. so we could ask how acharyaed are you?
    The final level of the course grated by the Trimurti ( …?)
    will be “Chandra mohan 1″ did you chandra mohan yourself?
    my question is. are people buying this?
    Osho dressing in star trek dragg queen clothes was taken as an absolutely delightfull joke. But I never though that will become a ” style”. and with followers of his travestied brother wearing laxmi´s had gear. great! I love this world. see why I am such an interested researcher!!
    as a friend once told me. In America and India anything is possible
    greetings
    anthony

  56. oshobob says:

    Right, Andreas. In America anything is possible. We even hold elections to convince the masses that they are in control of the country. Isn’t that great? Tell me if Rembrandt ever took a neighborhood vote before he painted one of his masterpieces, just so he could let everyone in on the creation. Or Osho.

    We also allow Kubrick’s “Dr. Strangelove” to be shown on TV — where we can see Peter Sellers play 4 different roles in the movie. And play them damn well too. Maybe he was the role model for the Sannyasnews editors when they decided to create their multiple personality post forum here. Just great!

    You all have given Osho Dhara some fine advertising here — keep it up boys. I’m sure they are quite happy for it.

    frank, good to see you back in the saddle — the Midnight Cowboy dresses in black, and pulls out his pearl handled 6 shooters, takes aim, and fires away. From Picadilly Circus to Pookeepsie and on to Pune.
    Quite the sharpshooter, indeed.

    Cheers from the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

  57. oshobob says:

    Sorry, Andreas, it was Anthony who made that comment about America, not you. I am starting to get you two mixed up, you are becoming such good friends these days. Maybe it was because he is starting to capitalise his surname Thompson now, like you do for Roth. By the way, Anthony, a place where anything is possible is actually a pretty good environment — it’s called ‘freedom’, a quality mankind has been striving for forever it seems.

  58. Andreas Roth says:

    ah yes Anthony, it was Laxmi who wore that headgear you are right, Sheela just apdopted it and put some garland on top of it when she prepared herself for the first female pope, – Sheela and Laxmi were tough competitors as you know… What about field reseach and live fun? When will you go there to see for yourself?

    oshobob, we are not talking about vote on creativity. Freedom is a great word and it has innumerable aspects. But these guys are creating the opposite of freedom and your attitude towards democracy shows that you either are a complete greenhorn to human affairs or a wannabe dictator yourself. Have a look at these poor followers! What are they doing?They are giving up their freedom in order to gain something (which does not exist). Mere business and a nightmare to live in. They think they are able to take a shortcut to freedom. But it just creates the opposite. Real freedom is a hard master. And that’s exacly what these people avoid. They are not able to feel, see and live it. And pay a high price, because they are exploited, nothing else.

  59. Anthony Thompson says:

    well, I tend to be less serious in this matter. I do not think anyone can fool you without your consent. In the same way that no one can brainwash you unless you want to.
    Adults make choices, weather they are conscious or not, that is another matter. or weather they want to allow themselves to be conscious.
    But these people… you just need a good sense of aesthetic to see through.
    regarding field research, i think i would be expelled from the premises… my laughter would be too loud.
    By the way, Andreas send me you email to mine, and I´ll send you something you will enjoy.
    anthony

  60. frank says:

    andreas,i would say oshobob is a wannabe benevolent dictator.
    he seems to be the sort of guy who says : “live free or die” – and means it as a threat!
    he seems to love zen too.
    picture this :
    a bunch of guys from possibly the most authoritarian and militaristic nation in history,holed up in a monastery in the mounains with no women around(like sannyasnews),eating too much porridge,asking each other questions that dont make sense,answering with more nonsense,then whacking each other with sticks,slicing up pet cats etc. the big guys call themselves `masters` and beat the crap out of the young guys in order to `enlighten` them,chopping their off fingers ,hands,and bog knows what other body parts……quite a few fatalities,all in everyone`s best interest of course.

    would any of our sannyasnews people here(even bob) last five minutes in this kind of psycho-macho-osho world?
    i doubt it.

  61. horatio says:

    you guys are really entertaining… Now for a commercial break: Bob’s chance to advertise: … and so as not to judge the Osho dhara instructors by their costumes and mannerisms, which do seem a bit silly in its imitation of the ‘great one’, what was your honest experience there? How about others?

  62. Andreas Roth says:

    Anthony you wrote: ” you just need a good sense of aesthetic to see through.” I completely agree. I remember when I was living in the Rajneeshstadt Commune in Germany there was a poster being printed just for fun which showed Osho with a Santa Claus hat. Somehow the poster was shown to Osho. His reaction was straightforward and negative: “tasteless” etc. The poster was withdrawn.

  63. frank says:

    horatiosho,
    it`s obvious,isn`t it?
    they are are ushering in the new man.
    randy newman,that is:

    take off your shoes
    take off your robe
    take off your dress
    yes yes yes
    you give me reason to live
    you give me reason to live
    you can leave your hat on!

  64. Anthony Thompson says:

    Frank. you have given the best description i have ever read of a zen monastery.
    I should write it down!
    I am having so much fun in this forum!
    anthony

  65. horatio says:

    Frank, I have no certificate of enlghtenment yet… until then its horatio, not horatiosho….. do they do mail order?

  66. frank says:

    ok then,fine,horoshio.

  67. oshobob says:

    Horatio, never been to India in my life. “All I know is,” to quote Will Rogers, “what I read in the papers.” I first noticed them when I started up my Livingworkshop website after 10 years off the web, saw they were naming themselves “Osho” — and I said, shit, that’s just fantastic, I’ll do it too. And did it. Voila — ‘oshobob’s livingworkshop.”

    frank, your Brief History of Zen in the Known Universe, though slightly amusing, is highly inaccurate. To wit — almost all the Zen stories you speak of happened in China, not Japan. Big difference. China is not Japan (as you refer to its militiristic, authoritarian ways).

    There were most likely a lot of women and very pretty girls around the Chinese Chan monasteries, they just never made it into the stories. If you ever have tried to carve out Chinese characters by hand on a wooden platen for the printing process, you will understand that brevity is the best policy. Not to mention the Chinese never put sexual references in ANY writings, save for a few oddities in literary Chinese history. Just not the Chinese style. No satire either. You’ve got to remember, anything printed in China was done with the emperor’s blessing and money. And all the Zen stories were highly edited collections, created basically for religious/political propaganda purposes. Zen was the major religious force in China for more than 7 centuries, and it’s literature was highly controlled in the end product. Just as Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and all other religious literature is basically in-house propaganda. Same deal.

    The Chinese have no problem at all in cutting a cat in two, as Chan master Nanquan(J. Nansen) did. They do it every day to this day, for food.

    And the Chinese young men who came to these Zen monasteries did so on their own free will, and were free to leave any time they wanted to. Just like Osho’s set-up. No whining please. Not that many fatalities as you make out in these places. Funny, it almost sounds like the grossly exaggerated anti-Osho rantings of the people who took the case of one guy who fractured his arm in a Poona 1 therapy group, as the standard everyday occurance of extreme violence at ashram.

    And to end up here, your master (I guess Osho is your master, frank, though you never do seem to say anything very positive about Osho or sannyas in general), spoke very, very highly on the Chinese Zen masters, their stories, and their communes. In fact, on record, he places them at the top of his list, devoting more time on them than to any other group, by far.

    In fact, Osho has talked extensively on all the so called “negative” subjects about Zen you bring up, and thrown his bright light on them. You might think of listening to some of these talks, instead of spending so much time on your western popular culture media items that seems to find their way so frequently into your witty posts. Life is short, no?

    One day I’ll take you to China, frank, and take you some really good restaurants I know — the food is just delicious — stir-fried cat meat/vegetable medley, boiled donkey dick, some out of this world dog-meat soup, grilled frogs, scorpian-on-a stick, mmmm! — the gourmet list is endless…

    I’ve got you set up for Ring #2 oshofrank, is that OK with you?

    Cheers

  68. horatio says:

    thanks for that Oshobob… to all concerned… (that probably just means you Frank) feel free to call me Horatiosho. sounds nice doesn’t it? I’m feeling more enlightened already….

  69. Andreas Roth says:

    dear frank, your “zen story” hits the target and it applies to the whole past of mankind not only to zen, which is the better part of it, so to say. I have found incredibly fine men in zen monasteries as well as around Osho, and any nonsens, here and there.

    I think it was Andre Malraux who said civilization of the twenty first century will be spiritual or it will not be at all. Science is progressing. Knowledge can be borrowed, but human quality can not be borrowed. The past seems to be such a pile of rubbish. Thus every generation tries to start something from the scratch, not taking in consideration that others might have tried that before. The problem is, if you mess up the whole past, you are doomed to repeat every mistake. And that’s exactly what happened and still happens around Osho. It is the ignorance of children who are enthusiastic about their new sand castles, leaving behind all and every achievement of civilization, thinking it is easy to overcome it’s side-effects.

    Honestly, do we really see something new, a new man? I am not so shure. In fact I doubt it. If you have some basic understanding of comparative science of religion, you are able to predict the next funny things to happen with a very high likelihood. We have tried what many generations before us tried, to make the world a better place. But the result is disappointing somehow. As always. Apart from the new carneval osho, no new man. Yet we have to learn and go on. Evolution is a slow process. I think much of what Osho said is great, be it a fairy tale or not, yet it has to evolve futher. If Osho is made a statue, a god, sacrosanct, the only result will be a completley stupid religion, ineradicable nonsens for centuries to come and I do not want to be associated with all of this. That is my main point with Anthony.

    I have no problem taking out the whole oldfashioned and outdated concept of enlightenment. In fact this is the next step. And absolutely necessary. All these assumtions are dispensable. They are not needed at all. On the contrary they are a source of endlessly weird problems, fictions upon fictions. Lives upon lives being wrecked and wasted because of pure nonsens. Modern western societies, since the frensh revoltion have understood this. Yet they were not able to find a new expression for a live without god, a live beyond economics, and ethics obviously is a bit too abstract for most of us. But all of us, we face the same problem. E.g. the resort in Pune decided in favour of the money game (western), Osho Dhara seems to be deciding for the old god game (eastern). Neither is the way to me. I think we radically have to look at our past as sannyasins, understand it and go on. Look at it, not hide it.

    When I came back from Oregon with just a suitcase in my hand, for the first time I was happy to live in a democratic and constitutional society. I was kind of a leftist artist before I became a sannyasin, my grandfather was in a concentration camp, I was very critical about the nazi generation before me, but only after I had experienced the real thing, I understood the real pitfalls. Before I was thinking a bit like oshobob. Today I completely reject any ideology that anyone may be superior to others or being entitled to commit crimes or barbaric treatment of those not belonging to his or her own group. And I have an unequivocal commitment to the inviolability and inalienability of human rights. Certainly no open society is perfect and democracy has it’s shortcomings, but up to now it is the best of all the bad constructions, because there is no perfect man. I mean NO man. Any idea of perfection is wrong and political in the first place. Always. This is where I think things had to be changed. We do not need a perfect man, nor a god nor an organisation for humor, intelligence and meditation.

    Osho said he would not care about the future, trying to make us live in the presence, but in fact he cared a lot. Even his last words were a pointer to the future. “I leave you my dream”. Saying: My dream has not come true. I put it into your hands. It’s up to you. Now what are we (as a mankind, not only as sannyasins) going to do? I go my own way, mainly for aesthetical and human reasons. I need to live somewhat secluded, yet friends come and go and I enyoy this wonderful world. It is very simple, but rarely I am understood.

  70. Anthony Thompson says:

    ” But rarely I am understood”. this sounds a bit megalomaniac for me… a bit messianic.
    However i agree with most of what you write, except that the pune resort decided for money. I know some of the people there and they look intelligent and honest, although i think they still have the old habit of using euphemisms and osho quotes to put forward what they are doing. they lack honesty in their language.
    But I think what they are doing is the greatest service done to Osho´s work since the establishment of the ashram in 1974.
    They did not decide for money, they decided for deconstructing religion. You may not know this but they were making more money when it was more devotionally minded. I can say for sure their move is epistemological, not economical.
    As an example, they decided not to have ” osho celebrations” anymore ( it used to be a great source of income… lots of people from all over the world coming), Vatayana explained to me that they did not want to make another christmas. ” we can have fun and celebrate osho´s birthday, but we have to think of the concecuences of doing this”.
    My understanding is that they want to keep a place for meditation and self exploration without the cobweb of any cultish religion. The trademark thing is a one of the tools they have tried to use to make this change happen. that is my understanding.
    greetings
    anthony

  71. Andreas Roth says:

    Anthony you are right, if I read it again, my final statement sounds a bit over the edge. I did not want to sound megalomanic, it rather is melancholic. Feelings of beauty, intimacy, death and impermanence.

    You for shure know better than me about the ongoings in Pune. I was happy to hear about the deconstroctions, unlike many others. But I’d go much further. I think my comments are quiet clear, so no need to repeat it.

    You may know what they did in Germany after the wall came down and East-Germany collapsed? They founded a huge office, where everybody is able to read in his or her Stasi dossier (Stasi = Staatssicherheit = safety of the state police). Can you imagine what that means, hundreds of thousand of people were observed minutely and now you come to know, where and when, and who were the ones who spyed. An ongoing process, which has not at all ended even after 20 years. Bitter, but a wise way to heal. These things happen. But we can not overcome and understand it, if we hide it. Hiding just leads to rollback and destruction. If those in Pune did such a wise thing instead of fighting over copyrights, that was really something new. Otherwise I am just not interested and I see only decline ahead. Time is running, as we grow older and die.

  72. Horatio says:

    Oshobob, sounds like your doing good promoting Osho.

    it’s not about Osho per se, as in the one way. After all, Osho expounded many ways to acheive higher consciousness,, which is too say moving beyond limitations of the ego.

    Andreas, you sound a bit jaded by the Osho movement.. did you do the work or were you just hanging out.? seems when intentions are strong experience follows…. the shift in consciousness happening is the way forward…. after all, if we all stayed mired in me, and mine, and my way, and my limited understanding, how does anything ever change…?.

  73. Kranti says:

    You dont need to do any active meditation..Just open oshodara website and take a look the photos..You will start shaking and stress will be released..

    Different ways of helping people to throw out stress..Shailendra and team has chosen this way..something like laughing buddhas..

    What trouble may brew?.

    People will bored of these guys’s jokes and funny hats .. then move away..

    Or they may take the jokes seriously and form another organization and call themselves Osho Bashos and start giving short term certificates…for a slightly higher fee ofcourse

    If osho had been alive , he would have cancelled his morning discourses and started enjoying these ‘Oshows’

    Just reading one Osho book has such impact ..something inside melts.. changes..you are no loner the same..you feel more free. And these guys can use Osho to avoid Osho..what a game!

  74. oshobob says:

    Andreas ponders thoroughly our human cosmology in deep retrospection,
    Anthony reflects on the ongoing research paradigm,
    Horatio states his thoughts simply,
    and Kranti laughs at the whole Oshow.

    Now, what next…?

  75. Anthony Thompson says:

    Come on Frank.. help us out here….

  76. Vishakha says:

    Oshobob, you should get rid of knowlege..Your mind is too full of overloaded infos..and too less space for divine to enter..Bhagwan Rajneesh would have definitely said these things to you..Good luck !

  77. Kranti says:

    Just a small clarification.. When i said Oshow i meant the shows by Oshodara group..

    No misunderstanding please..Not anything about the real Osho..I am too much in awe & love with Osho and thats is the reason for this clarification.

  78. frank says:

    vishakha,
    never mind being full of knowledge,dont forget,amongst other things,oshobob is also full of donkey-dick soup!

    but oshobob`s “knowledge” is also liberally sprinkled with his own pop-culture fantasies: “there were most likely a lot of women and very pretty girls around” in the chinese chan monasteries. that should read “the charlie chan monastery”,right?
    oshobob,dont diss popular culture.i`ll wager that you yourself have seen every episode of “kung fu” with david carradine,you probably based your life on kwai chang cain.
    and good on you.
    respect.

    knowledge is just bricks.
    some bricks are neccesary just so as you can paste them together with a liberal dose fantasy,flights of imagination and a good feeling and build yourself somewhere to live for a while……..

    and i really feel for those guys up in those monasteries in the hills.what did they do all day with no rock `n`roll,no internet,not even a tv? i guess they must have had to stare at the wall for hours at a time,just waiting for the next bowl of donkey dick soup!
    according to “monkey”,the 16th century chinese novel,they even had to go all the way to india just to find something decent to read.
    i really hope some of those “pretty girls”made it over the fence once in a while,otherwise what to do? under those conditions whacking each other with sticks,slicing a few cats,the occasional fatality,(“not that many”according to oshobob) and stuff like that,is perfectly understandable.

    but to come back to the main point
    enlightenment etc is really just a branch of the entertainment business.
    “enlightentertaiment” .
    like theatre,like rock `n` roll,stand-up,even after dinner speaking it`s all about having the bottle,the nerve,the desperation,the x factor,whatever it is,to get up on stage,get butts on seats and casting some sort of spell on the crowd and giving them something they like,and come back for more.
    the trouble with this whole satsang thing to me,is something akin to the rise of punk-rock.
    when people went to see the sex pistols in 1976,they thought,”they cant even play or anything,but they`re on stage-i could do that” and they did.
    that`s exactly what happened in the satsang scene.result?
    the three stooges with their silly hats.
    rajneesh with his silly walks.
    and numerous other half-chancers who suddenly got a glimpse of fortune fame and adulation just round the corner and fancied a go……

    the guys at the resort ,on the other hand,like to act more like the rolling stones,with their trademarks,logos and slick marketing machine etc-but,like the rolling stones,they are just deadly boring,liquor-swilling businessmen trying desperately to disassociate from their widely-held image as “old farts” and “rebranding” their past-its-sell-by-date “product” for the next generation…..
    yawn……

  79. Beloved Kranti,
    You have given the nice description of the Zoo called Oshodhara. Osho would have loved his brother and his wife taking care of newly developed family business of enlighenment.
    When i am tired from reading newspapers on the net or listening Osho´s discourses or music or watching porno, i open the site of oshodhara.
    I think many people are familiar with the story that once a cap seller was taking his afternoon nap under a tree in a forest. Monkeys living on the tree look down and saw the caps lying near the cap seller. They took all the caps for themselves and wear them as they have seen cap seller wearing.
    When cap seller woke up, he could see his missing caps and the monkeys who have copied him. He knew their mental capacity. So he threw his cap on the ground. Monkeys did the same. He took his caps and went away.
    So is the traditional story. Now just imagine, cap seller has forgotten to look for his lost bundle of caps or he died under the tree. In such cases, monkeys will go on wearing the caps generations after generations!
    Copy cats from the world of Osho are such monkeys.

  80. deva sugit says:

    wow! what a long thread you folks weave. all i need to know is:
    how man oshos does it take to screw in a light bulb?

  81. frank says:

    none,because the light has always been on.

    or

    two,one to screw in the light bulb,and one to collect the money for the show.

  82. frank says:

    or

    thousands,maybe more….
    there are so many people in the dark who will pay thru the nose to see the light….
    and if a bit of screwing is all it takes………..

  83. Andreas Roth says:

    As frank already occupied most of the numbers:

    three: one to put the hat on, one to give a press conference and one to screw (whom or whatsoever)…

  84. oshobob says:

    just waking up here in the states, boys, …let me have a few cups of coffee, get the neurons firing a bit, and I’ll be on…

  85. frank says:

    yes,it`s definitely three.

    one to screw in the lightbulb
    one to declare enlightenment
    and one to collect the money for the whole circus

  86. Vishakha says:

    Frank, when are you becoming serious?? I am just fooling around and making fun of you guys ! I could tell you guys are very mature and has acquired more KNOWLEDGE than anything else in life. Lucky me, Bhagwan Rajneesh totally wiped out my KNOWLEDGE and I just talk with my insight, I have right now, in this very moment. I do not depend on borrowed KNOWLEDGE or ponder into Osho’s book..

    And for Oshobob, yes, you definitely need one or two cups of Starbucks..be back soon..lol

  87. Andreas Roth says:

    Master frank, refused to teach, but from time to time would advise people about the way. One day a disciple, who was regularly attending osho ceremonies, visited him.

    He asked, ‘How can I best profit from the teachings of all the oshos?’

    frank said, ‘I am happy to be able to tell you that I have an infallible method which corresponds to your capacity.’

    ‘And what is that, if I am allowed to hear it?’

    ‘Simply stop up your ears and think about radishes.’

    ‘Before, during or after the lectures and exercises?’

    ‘Instead of attending any of them.’

  88. Anthony Thompson says:

    A master a talking to his disciple and explaining that the search is difficult and arduous, and that beings from other dimensions, ascended masters come and screw your brain and take all your wisdom and knowledge of lifetimes, that is why you have to use a special kind of hat.
    The disciple is frightened, the master explained that those hat are very rare to be found.
    the disciple is desperate and very, very afraid and asks the master what to do.
    The master says that the only plausible solution is to bury his head underground.
    The disciple does that and bends over and put his head in a hole and covers it with a bit of dirt.
    The master brings down his pants and underwear and starts screwing the disciple… harder and harder.
    The disciple starts yelling in fear:
    “TRY SCREWING ALL YOU WANT…YOU DAMMED ASCENDED MASTERS… BUT YOU´LL NEVER GET TO MY HEAD”

  89. oshobob says:

    Do you think that’s a funny joke, Anthony? Is that what passes for humor down there in Chile? Did you learn that at your university where you teach, Professor Thompson? — General Pinochet’s East Santiago Community College for Modern Interrogation Techniques and Torture Tactics and Psychological Strategies in the Post-Freudian World.

    Just kidding Tony.

    But it does sound like one of those jokes Osho might tell in Poona 1, where at the end of it, nobody laughs.
    The sannyasins were not aware that they were supposed to laugh at the jokes. It took them til Poona 2 to get to that point. Like Andreas says, evolution is a slow process most of the time….

  90. oshobob says:

    frank, great post, i liked it a lot…

    but,

    I never even saw one episode of ‘Kung Fu’, so you would lose that wager if you made it. At that time I was reading Reich’s “Character Analysis” and “The Function of the Orgasm”, and helping to run a primal therapy/neo-Reichian center in LA — probably not a stone’s throw away from where David Carradine and his crew were producing their fantasy series. You will have to withdraw your “respect” , unless you want to regive it to me for the therapy center work I did. Your choice.

    Cheers,
    and
    more to come…

  91. oshobob says:

    Kranti, I’m glad you made your clarification. Yes, I saw it there originally. There is a VAST difference between all the Oshows and the real Osho, the “Great One”, the main man. As you seem to love Osho discourses, as I do, visit my website if you have a chance, it’s loaded with Osho’s stuff…www.livingworkshop.net

    I am in the process of putting up complete mp3 audio discourses free that I purchased from osho.com over the last few years, mostly from the Poona 2 era, the Zen torrent talks. The Lion roars!

    some of the titles:

    No Mind: The Flowers of Eternity
    Live Zen
    I Celebrate Myself
    The Zen Manifesto
    God Is Dead, Now Zen is the Only Living Truth
    Christianity, the Deadliest Poison, and Zen, the Antidote to All Poisons
    Beyond Psychology (Uraguay)
    Communism and Zen Fire Zen Wind
    One Seed Makes the Whole Earth Green
    Rinzai: Master of the Irrational
    Kyozan: A True Man of Zen
    This. This A Thousand Times This
    Yakusan: Straight to the Point of Englightenment

    Cheers
    oshobob

  92. Anthony Thompson says:

    don´ t be so hard on me. I had a really hard time trying to translate that joke. You should listen to it in Spanish… It is really funny.
    Well I think I am better researcher than a comedian… but at least i try.
    greetings
    Anthony

  93. Anthony Thompson says:

    I got interested in your reichian -primal work in L. A. when was it? did you train with janov? did you mix both approaches?
    share this please.
    anthony

  94. oshobob says:

    Ok Vishakha, you’re probably right about the “too much knowledge” thing, but it’s one of the aspects of cultural collateral damage that we all are subject to in the modern world. How can we avoid it? Let’s use it as a tool.

    Even pop culture can be used, why not?

    And I’m glad to see that you are chanelling “Bhagwan Rajneesh” and letting me know what he would say to me. That’s just great! I think we could start a pretty good business — you can tell all the lost Osho sannyasins just what ‘Bhagwan Rajneesh’ would say to them about their conditions and personalities and concerns. I am sure we could get quite a long queue for the sessions. How about 10 bucks a crack? I need to pay my rent in a few days, and am thinking of ways to get the cash…

    Cheers,
    oshobob

  95. oshobob says:

    Anthony, OK, I’ll lighten up on you, if you did have to translate that joke from Spanish. Jokes are very fragile things, always VERY much connected to the nuances of language. Sometimes just one word with a double meaning or pronunciation change. I think the Germans got a bad rap from Osho when he said they didn’t understand the jokes he told — most were very delicate twists of the English language….

    As to primal therapy and the rest…

    ’75-’77 were the years I was in LA. Not with Janov — we considered Janov to be a Jewish pussy pseudo-psychotherapist. Had degrees, wrote books, got famous rich people to come and “scream” their way into fake primal birth canals. And all such nonsense.
    Yes, we combined some of that theory anyway, but it was mostly neo-Reichian emotionalrelease, bio-energetics. Actually, I started my Livingworkshop there.

    Cheers,
    oshobob

  96. Anthony Thompson says:

    who did you train bioenergetics with. what aspects of Janov theory did you combined.
    sorry to ask you this. Burt I have always been interested in the development of humanistic psychology and the human potential movement. so I would like to know more about your work
    anthony

  97. Andreas Roth says:

    come on Anthony, the neo-Reichian braggadocio transcended all the “Jewish pussy pseudo-psychotherapists” long before in his orgon box and now is about to save the world with his cannon like dick…

  98. oshobob says:

    Now, now Andreas…
    Just because you’re Jewish, you got too hot, too fast.
    Cool down there, Mr. Roth.
    Remember, Reich was one of the Chosen People too. As are most people in the western psychotherapy world, it’s just such a lucrative business, you know.
    Allen Lowen of Bioenergetics fame, Ida Rolf, most of the Osho group leaders — Teertha, Somendra, Rajen — even Schlomo Freud was of the cloth, I believe.

    Cheers

  99. frank says:

    good point andreas.
    anthony,here`s some important technical and scientific information for your humanistic psychological research:
    jewish pussy pseudo-psychotherapists were rubbish.
    the jewish donkey-dick pseudo-psychotherapists (like reich and his disciples) were much better.
    they had bigger dicks too.and that was even before they put them in their orgone boxes.

  100. frank says:

    maybe jewish people were so big in the genesis of psychoanalysis because it was a way to get power,something that was legally and socially difficult for them at the time.was also true when they got to thestates.
    so the motivation for all these psychotherapists etc looks so similar to the master/discile thing up in the monasteries.
    you get to kick the little guy`s ass.
    who can resist that?
    not ough guys with nig dicks,for sure…

  101. oshobob says:

    Anthony, you’re just too much of a voyeur snoop, with all your academic “research” front. You should not just be “interested” in these things, you should DO them.
    Like John Lennon did. Go, Johnny, go….go!

  102. oshobob says:

    that’s a right-on point frank, about the power trip aspect of it. I would agree with you.

    I also agree with Osho that all psychotherapy is very very limited. Meditation, which is such a non-Jewish, non-Western approach, is head and shoulders beyond all forms of “therapy.” It’s not a release of your mind and emotions, but a discovery of your inner nature. Your Oshohood. Mo bettah, for sure.

  103. Andreas Roth says:

    oshobob, my whole family was not jewish, neither am I. I do not belong to any group or religion, not even to oshoshism. But superior humans always exactly know who are the subhumans. I agree about the power aspect in therapy. But meditation is neither non-Jewish nor non-Western, it is neither this nor that. You seem to know a lot about chan, as Anthony does about psychology, but did you ever sit yourself? I mean really!

  104. oshobob says:

    Yeah, sure, I sit all the time, Andreas — in front of a computer screen usually.

    Really.

  105. Andreas Roth says:

    Come on, really. Tell us. Otherwise don’t be so wise to tell Anthony “You should not just be “interested” in these things, you should DO them”.

  106. Anthony Thompson says:

    Well, well, I am a practicing psychotherapist and I have done them all. My interest is not just voyeurism… and My mother is Jewish, her family left Prague, 5 minutes before the nazies came in.
    Let us now clarify some misconception expressed by Oshobob.
    Allan Lowen never trained in bio-energetics, he trained in Gestalt with Fred Winbly and encounter with Carl Rogers. Alexander Lowen was the creator of bio-energetics with John Pierrakos… pretty bad memory for a former bio-energetics therapist.

    Teertha was Paul lowe, certainly British, not Jewish Somendra´s father was jewish, and as it comes from the mother… he was not Jewish technically.
    I agree with Frank about the limits of psychotherapy.

    anyway,
    anthony

  107. oshobob says:

    Oh, now it’s tell “us”, is it? You have become the spokesperson for some group there on sannyasnews all of a sudden, Andreas? Mmmmm, interesting.

    Here’s a true story about Chan in China for you all…

    I am in China, in Hunan Province, on Hengshan Mountain, probably the most famous Zen location in the world. I am sitting — sitting on the actual “stonehead” of Zen master Sekito (Ch., Shitou).
    It is drizzling out, and the big rock platform has moss on it, and becomes very very slippery. Then I remember the story that Osho has repeated many times, about Ma Tzu (Mazu) telling a disciple that the path to stonehead Sekito’s place is very slippery. And it is. It really is. I close my eyes and try to sit some more in ‘zazen’, but believe it or not, all I can think of is the very pretty Chinese girls sitting at the base of the mountain.

    Really, frank….I mean, ….’Andreas’.

  108. oshobob says:

    Anthony,
    You are right about the ‘Alexander’ and ‘Allan’ mistake. So sorry. I was thinking of it too. I havn’t thought about it for 35 years, and I don’t really have much of a memory about this subject anymore. I never was a “bio-energetics therapist”, neither a “primal therapist”, or a “neo-Reichian therapist”. All just resume tags, really. We just used some techniques gleaned from these people and their writings, that’s all. It was in the air at the time, the cutting-edge things.

    You guys sure are getting touchy, lately….what’s the deal?

  109. Andreas Roth says:

    Took a while, as I had to see one of the sharpest german comedians on TV, just great, nearly as much fun as being spokesman for sannyasnews, ha, ha, ha, ha what a joke…. now as “we all” know what and how is oshobobs meditation, I go to bed, “see” you tomorrow…

  110. Kranti says:

    oshobob

    You are right i am in love with listening to Osho. I am greatful to Him for the clean up..all the junk inside is either gone or just ignored . no longer it matters. he freed up lot of enerygy.. He was a real Gardener.

    Thank you very much . I will visit your webpage.

  111. Andreas Roth says:

    Kranti, ingnoring junk and claiming that all the junk is gone is very indian. But someday you may wake up in the morning and find that the pile of rubbish in the kichen even has grown, while you were thinking Osho did the clean up…

    Tracing back way to the topic, I like to quote Anthony saying: “I know some of the people there (in Pune) and they look intelligent and honest, although i think they still have the old habit of using euphemisms and osho quotes to put forward what they are doing. they lack honesty in their language.”

    To me, this is a crucial point, also concerning the neo-oshos. Especially outsiders see and feel this missing “honesty in language” very easily. If someone did a linguistic research, I guess the results might not be so positive as Anthonies results, in which, sorry, I do not believe at all, there must be something deranged or somebody messed with the data. My own non representative “diagonal” and “longitudinal” life research significantly showed different results.

    To me, there is a vast difference between fake and lies on the one hand and humor and intelligent play on the other hand. The second can’t be copied, it’s always an original by it’s very nature and in most cases undermining the status quo. That’s also the diffrence between humor and gags. Producing copies is absolute boring. All of the religions, societies and even universities try. It never works. It is counterproductive and in the long run no fun at all, as copies must repress their uniquness.

    osobob, if your “frank….I mean, ….’Andreas’ in apostrophe implied we might be one (not speaking in esoteric terms), you err, but I am also a bit suspicious about frank. on the free mp3 thing: I’d be careful to display it online without permission. OIF is able to ruin you if they win the case. Unlike the trademark dispute, I think they have a good chance to win on copyrights.

  112. Anthony Thompson says:

    I would like to elaborate on the reasons I see for the quote you mention Andreas. the whole movement since the beginning have been faced with an incredible amount of hostility, everywhere. and I think much of the round about way of doing things has to do with finding a niche where they could do what they wanted without being annihilated.
    Nowadays that hostility is not coming from outsiders so much, but from inside the sannyas community, who disagrees on the ways things are done at the resort. specially related to move out of a devotional trip with Osho. They have been accused of being CIA agents, of wanting to destroy the legacy, of never loving Osho etc.
    Now, these are the people whom osho personally chose to take care of practical things related to his work.. and i think , as I said, they are doing the greatest effort to do that.
    They are educated, intelligent successful people. most of them wealthy before coming to osho, with no intention of filling their pockets with the foundation´s money.
    Again, I do not agree with the style of comunication, but to de-guruing, de-culting osho´s work is a favor to sincere seekers.
    and the place they have made is amazing and a pleasure to go to. I feel personally grateful for what they have done.
    It is a fantastic place for meditation and personal growth.
    anthony

  113. oshobob says:

    Very good points, both Andreas and Anthony. Some clear insights all around here.

  114. horatio says:

    Hate to disrupt your musings, but Come on, people with money and power never have enough…. unless they are enlightened, which we know they are not….

  115. Anthony Thompson says:

    horatio. That is a very broad generalization. It is like saying that poor people will always try to steal if they have the chance or that they are naturally humble… please!
    anthony

  116. Andreas Roth says:

    Dear Anthony,

    It is true that there was hostility. But the hositity was a MUTUAL process.

    One morning I went to dynamic running into raid of moslems, who waited around the corners of the ashram to beat up sannyasins. The only reasonable thing for me to do was, run as fast as I could. These were the idiots Osho provocated. And rightly. He did it on purpose and the reaction was foreseeable and I am and was with Osho here.

    But there is also another side. I also witnessed many occasions where sannyasins were annoying others in a way which was forceful and in many cases stupid and mandatory to rise aggression and a good for nothing. Partly completely ignorant, partly because they were druged, partly because they felt like the choosen ones, partly because they were criminals, all kinds of deals going on, partly because they had weird fun, strange ideas, political strategies, partly because of intercultural problems, sex stories certainly, not paying bills etc, etc… it is a very long list, too long for now. Osho used the whole situation all the time, the turmoial, the aggression to make it into the press. I know about sannyasins who studied the methods of the early nazis, reading books and experimenting with it in groups.

    India had such a corrupt and inefficent bureaucracy, that most of the criminal acts were not prosecuted, because it was like a crazy mafia game, were Osho usually was ahead of the police. But In the US the situation changed. The things that happend in the US had a profound history! And we all know the result. Complete paranoia from both the sides, criminal acts on a grand scale and the final show down of the whole project.

    Now to describe the situation as you do, is only half the truth. It is the way of the ones who still create myth. To protect themselfs, to protect their idendity. It is not the the real story. It is a kind of martyr story. A way to protect and consolidate a groups strength. But a very double-edged sword.

    Up to a certain degree I agree with your statements about the good intentions of the ones in Pune. Actually I do not really know. But reading between the lines and from what I see and read, it somehow seems plausibel to me. But I also think that the inner circle was not a good idea of Osho. Such a construction is doomed to fail. And I see no legitimation of those in charge today. And I am not so shure, about their altruistic intentions either. I think Anthony you are painting the picture far to nice and rosy for reasons I do not know. I think we will see the financial collaps an/or the sale of the place. And lots of fight. The whole movement did not do it’s homework: Honestly looking at itself. Isn’t this an aspect of meditation too? The real meditation in life.

    You did not really respond to the core of my last post: language. Something which annoyes me a lot and is a deep indicator to me. Or did you say that the dishonest esoteric neo-sannyas slang is a result of fear and a way to protect of offensive surroundings?

  117. oshobob says:

    yeah, that’s right…like saying a person with a sense of humor always wants a bigger sense of humor…or, another example, a guy with a Multi-personality Syndrome wants more personalities, like, “the more, the merrier,” or something like that…lol, what a joke.

  118. Anthony Thompson says:

    Well, part by part.
    First my motivation for my position is purely due to my understanding and experience.
    I do not see Osho as a martyr. the man spoke his tong, said what he wanted, shocked people out of pleasure, and consciously provoked the vested interests and the the religious belief systems. But That is one thing. another thing is the sheer amount of agression and attacks, beyond verbal, they suffer.
    I agree with what you say about sannyas behavior, but that was not a concerted move it was just the result of a bunch of different people in one culture, doing their thing, their own way. It would have happenned with any other group. the only difference is that osho was suppossed to be a spiritual master. And according to stablished belief system, they are supposed to preach “love thy enemy, all religions are one and lets all be brothers”. Soy the social annoyance was even bigger.
    Of course I am not including here sheela´s criminal behaviour. That is inexcusable.

    My final point is that euphemistic, not direct way of explaining the changes is a bad strategy and based on the paranoia of not being understood , unless they do it under
    osho´s umbrella.
    I do not agree with this. And I am clear about it… and i think it does not work. It is the result of past experiences, that is why I call it a bad old habit.

    But I agree with the changes.I know some of the people and That is my opinion. It seems an honest intention of creating and leaving something, where there is no intermediary between the meditator and the experience. where there is no ” representative”. and that is freeing for me.
    To discard Osho completely, as you suggest, is to through the baby with the bath water. I do not agree with that.

    I think they are making osho available in an independent free way. where no one will end up being ” counselled” by anyone like arun, osho dhara and the whole gang of people willing to use Osho as aumbrella for their own private power trips.
    If they want to do that. then why not use their own understanding and vision.
    this is my point.
    Anthony

  119. Andreas Roth says:

    You say: “My final point is that euphemistic, not direct way of explaining the changes is a bad strategy and based on the paranoia of not being understood , unless they do it under osho´s umbrella. I do not agree with this. And I am clear about it… and i think it does not work. It is the result of past experiences, that is why I call it a bad old habit.”

    I agree. That is exactly what I am doing, not using the umbrella, but my own understanding, even if it rains. I do not discard Oshos inspiration, otherwise I would not be here discussing. But Osho has become an obstacle, an obsession, a dominant part of the past of most sannyasins, a bad old habit even, an unremovable reference in all and everything.

    My definition of insanity is, not to be yourself. Finally we have to emancipate and leave the umbrella, otherwise the whole thing is nothing but ultimate dependency. There is no other way. No devotion, no surrender will ever take away our responsibility to be ourself, to live according to our insight, to be free and on our own.

    You say: “It seems an honest intention of creating and leaving something, where there is no intermediary between the meditator and the experience. where there is no ” representative”.”

    Again I agree. Mediators and representative are parasites. Why not go all the way? If we are intelligent, we will find a way too make a living without all the crutches and find our own unique expression. As I have stated in the other thread, I’d let it be, freely, like a stream back to the ocean, instead of keeping it in an aquarium. That is also why I am for royalty free coprights, no trademarks etc. If there is any truth, it will survive. It can not be copyrighted. Control is a childish idea, as in about the next few split seconds of the flashlight we will be gone.

  120. Anthony Thompson says:

    As we seem to agree on some points… it is not fun to discuss that. So, why not focus on our disagreement.

    First your solution is like, as I said, throwing the baby with the bathwater.
    second you say: ” It is true that there was hostility. But the hostility was a MUTUAL process.”

    And you add: “But there is also another side. I also witnessed many occasions where sannyasins were annoying others in a way which was forceful and in many cases stupid and mandatory to rise aggression and a good for nothing. Partly completely ignorant, partly because they were druged, partly because they felt like the choosen ones, partly because they were criminals, all kinds of deals going on, partly because they had weird fun, strange ideas, political strategies, partly because of intercultural problems, sex stories certainly, not paying bills etc, etc… it is a very long list, too long for now. Osho used the whole situation all the time, the turmoial, the aggression to make it into the press. I know about sannyasins who studied the methods of the early nazis, reading books and experimenting with it in groups.”

    We can not compare Osho telling his sannyasins to go sit front row to annoy Krishnamurti, with a group of fanatic Indians beating up sannyasins.
    More over, I can kiss in public, dress in a non conservative way, take drugs or scream in my room, in a country like India and offend the locals, but that does not give anyone the right to beat me up.
    In fact in the ashram itself, people were expelled everyday for disrupting behavior.

    I do not recall Osho ever suggesting sannysins to go beat up anyone. At the most he said Oregonians were stupid and he would not tolerate physical agresion in a passive way. But it never happened.

    Sheela´s behavior was another matter. She and her group got paranoid after the rajneesh hotel in Portland was bombed and they developed the whole story we know with the salmonella poisoning, the intent of murdering osho´s doctor and the plan to murder Charles Turner. But That was not an official policy of osho´s movement. And there is absolutely no evidence linking Sheela´s crimes with Osho. I have dug my nose into this, and i have checked many documents, and interviewed many people, but nothing that tells me that osho knew or was behind Sheela´s crimes. More over it was Osho´s invitation to the FBI and his own testimony that made these crimes visible. Other wise no one would have known about them.
    Sheela and her associates went to jail and payed for the crimes. There was no impunity here.
    If the USA government, Fronmayer and Turner had any evidence, they would have nailed Osho with pleasure, but they didn´t and they had to let him go, after charging him with lying in the visa application and organizing fake marriages. Both charges were in fact ridiculous. He was never personally involved with organizing sham marriages as a policy; and no one ever in the whole history of the USA has ever been prosecuted for “having the hidden intention” to stay as a resident after applying for a turist visa.

    So, yea Osho called controversy and his sannyasins behaved in a non-socialised way… so, they deserved to be crushed?
    Greetings
    Anthony

  121. oshobob says:

    some more exellent reflections on the Osho phenomenom from both of the “Andys” — Andreas & Anthony. Very well presented — a commendable job for both gentlemen.

  122. horatio says:

    right,,, glad you guys aren’t sleeping. though you let this go –> nor can we say those who have do not want more…. read into it dear man…..

  123. horatio says:

    I agree, there’s some interesting reading going on…..

  124. Andreas Roth says:

    I had a dream tonight:

    The copyrights were adjudged to oshos familiy. The resort went bankrupt and was sold to osho dhara. They opened up a hat fabrication there and declared everyone enlightened who bought one of the osho hats. Jayesh lost all his money and from now on lived as a homeless in Sheelas nursing home, while Amrito went into a mental home murmuring all the time “I leave you my hat, I leave you my hat”…

  125. Andreas Roth says:

    Anthony, I am not going to play this game again, we had that before. It is clear where you stand. You defend something which is not defendable to me. An image of Osho / Bhagwan / Acharya Rajneesh which I do not share. Basically it is about your believes, which you try to substantiate scientifically, but that is absurd to me! So, this will be my last response to you. Otherwise we can have fun if you like (as long as you don’t tell jokes).

    On http://www.rebelliousspirit.com you wrote: “I had the pleasure to sit at his feet and the energy that emanated from this man is something that I have never seen in anyone, I mean not in anyone. I was with Krishnamurti, Papaji, nisgardatta maharaj and many, many others, and Osho stads alone in a place that is beyond projection, transference and stuff like that. he channelled an energy that was undescribable. Even detractors as calder and roth can not deny this.”

    Now, I doubt you were sitting “at his feet”. And Osho did not channel energy. That is all but believe and self-deception.

    Osho did say that one should not follow dead gurus. But, – against his own advice, his disciples keep following and pretending, instead of living acording to their own insight and understanding. They go on denying and repressing the truth for a simple reasons: It hurts! Osho, gifted with great talents, fooled himself and others. Now it seems easier to create another hypocrite religion, instead of honestly telling the truth. In the shadow of all this, many are driven by strange images and esoteric ideas which have no roots at all in reality. The whole movement is completely odds within itself. Actually there is conflict all around, individually as well as generally.

    There is EVERY evidence that Osho was behind the scene. Not in every detail, but in the sense in which every leader is responsible. The decline will go on, with or without Calder, me and many others whom you call detractors. As long as there is this absurd effort to whitewash Osho, there is no chance for anything good to evolve and it is must for everybody with some understandig to keep distance. Osho was a human being as everyone, but he acted like a god, that’s the problem. And to downplay Oshos resonsibility is as ridiculous as a virgin birth. Everbody with some authentic experience of life recognises it. Similar to the language of sannyasins. It is obvious that many became conditioned by Osho, up to such a degree that they can not see reality anymore.

    Osho often spoke against believes of all kind, however, in practice he massively propagated believe in himself. Surrender is nothing but a form of believe. People, who surrender their lives to another human being, resign themselves to any nonsense. Surrender is completely different from love. Surrender means to give up ones own will and responsibility. Why should a person do that? Because he hopes for something! Surrender means that a person gives control about his life to another person to get something in exchange! It is a kind of business: Desire for a life without problems, for sexual fulfilment, for enlightenment, the status as a teacher, for prosperity, power etc… From such longings dependeny originates. Surrender just creates a completely unreal situation: The “disciple” is dominated and to the “master” the world manifests as an effect of his own “spiritual power “. At the end, on both sides, a complete loss of reality takes place, a mutual illusion. A symbiotic behaviour which, at the most, may create a temporary relieve from responsibility on the side of the disciple. However, the ego does not disappear this way. In fact it cannot, because it is a vital part of our brain and our ability to survive in an ever changing world. Osho always was trying to build a myth around him. The events which happend on the ranch in Orgeon, did not happen by accident. They had deep roots. These roots reach back to the very beginning of Oshos appearance in public and they are a integral part of Oshos personality. Some of those who became sannyasins in the early years, when Osho still was know as Acharya Rajneesh, have given detailed reports about the early years.

    In the context with the 9/11 attacks I heard a definition of terrorism: “Terrorism is a raid on consciousness”. I think, this fits quite well to Osho, who called himself a “spiritual terrorist”. Osho tried with every means to get into the conscious of people and he thought himself to be great. But the result was and is a desaster. Not only on the physical, material and social level.

    Osho never took responsibility, that was out of the reach of his selfconfidence. Osho always presented himself as the nice guy with absolute authority and silenced many intelligent people with his demand for surrender. But doubt is important and usefull. Doubt has a vital meaning to our lives as individuals and it is a necessity to be able to distinguish right from wrong. The demand for surrender simply is violent. In Oshos case, it was even more than just the usual master-disciple relationship. It was a spiritual form of totalitarianism.

    Osho again and again stressed, that to be total was a necessary requirement for a sannyasin and for spiritual growth. In the short term this created and concentrated lots of energy. But in the long run it is a massive exploitation of individuals and their lifes resources. It has happend many times before in history and it is not a new insight. Down the history of mankind, man was exploitable, because of his hope for a better live. The whole history of mankind shows that unquestioned obedience is destructive. Even if the reasons are altruistic. It is nothing but the exploitation of mans longing for another life.

    In particular the conglomerate of politics with religion / spirituality is a dangerous blend. Power is abysmal and nobody is immune to its effects. Osho several times denied the famous saying of Lord Acton “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Why? Because he himself extensively played with power! However, experience tells, that Lord Actons insight is absolutely right. This control mechanisms of democracy have evolved in time through centuries of bloody experience. However, in subcultural groups this often is ignored. The control mechanisms are not taken care of or eliminated even willingly. The destrucutive forces of power are not taken in consideration at all. At a social level unquestioned obedience leads to fascism and the loss of the civil rights. Missing separation of political and religious power, leads to violations of basic human rights. It is always the same disaster. A clan gains absolute power and uses it.

    Osho rejected philosophy but nevertheless, he exactly studied his enemies and their minds. And he experimented with everything which seemed promissing to him. And he did not flinch at all even from fascistic methods and very strange ideas. Some examples: Sterilisations: approx. 40% of the sannyasins were sterilised in the end of the 70s, also some girls who were just 14 years old. The „New Man“: an idea which originated in the 19th century and massively influenced the 20th century with catastrophic results. Form Nietzsche to Hitler and Stalin, Mao and Phol Pot. Oshos ideas about bioengineering, biological breeding and selection. Oshos concept of “Objective Art “. Of course there is no “objective art“. Such a concept merely implies that somebody would like to make his own subjective views an abolute criterion. Oshos politics of confrontation. It made no difference to him what the press would write about him. His central issue was to be in the public and in the minds of people. Osho as a central figure and his demand for surrender. Oshos view and use of power. Oshos strange and esoteric interpretations about the role of Hitler in history. Many ideas of Oshos would fail in reality for the same reasons why Rajneeshpuram failed. The kind of society which Osho painted, would be a nightmare in reality.

    In “Glimpses of a Golden Childhood” (dictated under laughing gas influence) he describes in detail, how he fooled people with all kind of esoteric nonsense. Once a boy even drowned and died, when Osho seduced him to jump into the whirlpool of a river. Later he continued the same game, but in bigger proportions. Many sannyasins may also remember all the esoteric and manipulative prophecies of Osho: Two thirds of mankind would die of AIDS. During a nuclear war the whole world would be destroyed, only sannyasins would survive. Earthquakes would destroy California etc. On some occasion he declared 21 sanyassins “enlightened”, a political manoeuvre to stop Sheelas influence. Nobody of Sheelas gang was on the list. However, Shiva, whom he had insulted shortly before, because he had left the ranch, was on the „list“ of the elightened ones. It was all such a nonsense: Nobody can declare somebody else “enlightened”.

    Osho often spoke about esoteric things, basically to control situations, to commit people to himself, to entertain them or to experiment with them. I don’t have the time to list all that nonsense in detail, but it is obvious, that behind all this stories there is a behaviour which completely ignores all ethical values. Osho simply used the faith and the love of his disciples to control them. Esoteric politics. Whenever he wanted to keep or bind people, he extensively used esoterics. However, to himself he thought that most of these things were ridiculous. Esoterics was just a subtle means of control to him. Not at all better, than the nonsense which is tought to believers in the traditional religions.

    Deeksha who lived in hiding for years, told Satya Bharti that Osho sat in his room, swallowed huge amounts of Valium (according to Sheela daily 60 mg. 10 mg is a normal dose) and other drugs and then talked about how the world would be at his feet soon. Those who did not understand this, were pushed aside directly and on instruction by Osho. Osho even required that sannyasins had to get permission to leave the ranch. He asked Sheela to spy out on his own disciples because he wanted control of the community. Of course he did not want Sheela to spy on him too. But why did Sheela do that? Sheela has given good reason to Satya Bharti: She wanted to protect herself because she noticed that all criminal acts would fall back on her if something came to light. Osho was very conscious about the people and the methods he choose. Sheela who was far beyond Oshos intelligence was an instrument to him and a victim in the end.

    I was sad and angry to see Oshos reaction, when Vivek (Nirvano) commited suicide. Vivek was one of Oshos first disciples and had a long and extremely dedicated and devoted relationship with Osho. She has spent a great part of her life on his side. In “Notes of a madman” you can read how Osho (under laughing gas) goofes on Vivek (there under her new name Nirvano). Osho the untouchable master and Vivek without chance. What happened to Osho when Vivek committed suicide one day before his last birthday in 1989 in Bombay with an overdose of drugs? Vivek was burnt immediately and secretly at night in ghats. Oshos only statement was that she was depressive. And the commune leaders spread that Osho declines suicide. But this was not the reason why he downplayed her suicide. He of course immediately recognised that her suicide could damage his image. You again will tell me that this is supposition. Yes, I have no proof, only various statements by sannyasins who knew Vivek well, Oshos statement, public statements. But even without any proof this tells a lot about Osho. Osho was talking about compassion, but reality was different, his main focus was his own image and his reputation as the master of masters.

    Sorry for this very long comment. I could go on and on… but I will not.
    Actually I am waiting for a joke by frank….

  126. Anthony Thompson says:

    well, you are right… I was sitting quite some feet away!

    Andreas. you accused me of copy and paste!!and this one is from the other forum! I thought we discussed this one already. I went point by point in the other one…. and i feel too lazy to copy and paste again.

    What is sure is that we stand in different point of interpretation on this subject. neither you or I are eyewitness to events you narrate… so. I could fill you up with quotes where Osho stresses the importance of doubting in the spiritual search. I could make a comparative study of how he stresses surrender in the seventies ad doubt in the eighties. I could even discuss the role of surrendering in the spiritual search as a way of letting go of the automatic defensive unconscious attitudes towards life.
    We already discussed about about ethics( anyone interested can read the rebellious spirit forum)
    I could bring quotes where he apologizes for what happened in the ranch, taking responsibility, but I already put that on my article… and besides, today I do not feel that evangelical myself.

    In my opinion, the guy was great. what do you want me to say. I was fooled? I am a blind disciple? I could not see any fault? You have seen me criticize him, the organization around… so you can not say i am a blind follower of any kind. I am sorry, I am a guy who knows his subject: the psycho-sociological aspects of spiritual research… and the man was great, incomparable, really.

    Weather he thought himself great or not, i do not know and i do not care…but as far as my expert opinion is concerned, He was great. And that is a bottom point. Not because I do not think him human, not because I am a surrendered disciple, but because I see him as the most effective spiritual teacher of the 20th century, the most intelligent one, the most educated, and the one who agrees more with my own experience and understanding.
    Now, weather he was enlightened or not… weather enlightenment exists of not. I Honestly do not know. So I can not say anything about that.
    anthony

  127. Andreas Roth says:

    I was sitting in the front rows of Krishnamurti talks in 1981 and 1982 in Saanen (Switzerland). This was totally stuipd and also a way of aggression. I have to say, I regret. Maybe that’s what I would like to hear sometimes, instead of all the hype. Very simple.

    J.K. was sitting on a simple chair, no golden robe, declining adoration. When he left the podium you could see him go fast, so that nobody would follow him. I do not know a single person who emphatically is talking about J.K.s “energy emanating”. Why? Because it’s all a made up thing, a distracting show. It took some time for me to get this. But that’s why I am not a fan anymore (fan etymological coming from fanatic).

    I very well have taken note of, that you repeatedly said, you don’t know about enlightenment. That’s appealing to me. I have found more hypocracy then anywhere else in so called “spiritual” people. Today I really enjoy conversation between men and women who are not in need of all this. I am not going to make up a list whom I met ect. but with experience things are put into perspective and views relativize. That’s more convincing to me. And very enriching. Sometimes even joy, not just fun. This way I feel very fortunate.

  128. Anthony Thompson says:

    When Krishnamurti was in Argentina, i went to see him as young man. he looked like an interesting philosopher, but I felt no real connection to the man. On a deeper level, beyond his words.
    When I first saw Osho I had done some research on him, read some books, But he also looked like an interesting philosopher. Until I saw him. I did not have any expectation about him, perhaps about his speech, but not about the guy. He just look like a weirdo to me from the pictures I had seen.
    And then I saw something that my intelectuial mind could not understand. And I stand in the same place today… you can call it energy, or whatever, actually I do not know what energy means. But i was touched in a way i can not put in words. My mind said ” what the f f*** is this?
    still not being able to answer.
    anthony

  129. Andreas Roth says:

    I was really laughing, reading your despription, it reminded me of the “Calvin and Hobbes” collection “Weirdos from Another Planet” by Bill Waterson. If you don’t know, I recommend it. I guess, the both of us we were to young when we saw J.K. But anyway…

  130. horatio says:

    Andreas, you can say you have never been touched in a deeper way by anyone in the way that Anthony described. But do you think Anthony is lying about his experience with Osho? He’s not…… Some people are open to it some are not…… accept that and you will be a more honest person…. to yourself…. why are some people open to this energy and some not? its a mystery…… the play of consciousness….. I think it comes from earnestness… and a willingness to let go go of control to the flow of life……. its all good,,,, how you are…. how anthony is…… are you enjoying your life? I hope so,,, there are many people in tune with life who couldn’t give a rats ass about enlgihtenment….. and why should they….. however, we will all move that way at some point in our lives… usually after our Karma opens up…. making enlightenment the most enjoyable and necessary choice….. this is true to my own experience… philosophy here…… what you say about Osho reveals the complexity of the person behind the enlightenment…… but what anthony speaks about is a testimonial to the enlightenment, not the person….. why begrudge him for that… its his experience….. you are right to question blind belief just because someone is enlightened. people can still get hurt if there is questionable things going on in the movement. my personal belief concerning the phenomenon was that it was a big experiment in concsciousness…. osho brought together alot of people who weren’t really ready for it, and let them loose…. he couldn’t handle it, couldn’t channel in enough light and love to process what was going on… too much raw wild energy going on in the early puna days ,,,, and lost it……. he never fully recovered it think…… he started to go a bit unconcscious himself….. and from there things further deteriorated…. yet I believe he was enlightened….

    …..there’s room for everyone to experience life as it comes….. as it can be beautiful on many levels…. even negativity can be enjoyable but the price is high especially if taken seriously….. you sound like an very intestering man with alot of life experience….. and sometimes it can be hard to take some of these younger upstarts claiming spiritual experience….. I don’t begrudge younger folks who have found it,, almost effortlessly…. all the power to them…. ,,,, for me it came after years of effort which came after years of ignorance and sufftering…. nor do I bemoan those who don’t give a rat’s ass about it and who have enjoyed their easy life and prosperity….. I live in a little cabin with an outhouse…. but i do go on a bit about those who say that anothers spiritual experience is invalid….. most often because they haven’t experienced the same thing….. guess i need to accept that more also…….your helping me that! cheers……

  131. oshobob says:

    Holy cow!

    Things are getting deep, deep, deep here at Sannyasnews…that long post by Andreas had to take the Guniness World Book of Records record for length at least. Quite a lot of things to ponder over — do we have time just in one life to tackle all these Great Matters…?

    Maybe if the editors at Sannyasnews could collect these posts and publish them, sell the product, we could get Horatio an attached bathroom built at his cabin hideaway. Outhouses in the 21st century? Osho would NEVER had stood for it — or sat for it for that matter.

    And where is frank…? Maybe sitting in his orgone box with the ghosts of Wilhelm Reich and Lord Acton and Peter Sellers, trying to replenish his depleted joke energy, who knows? Maybe he’s washed up. I hope not…

  132. oshobob says:

    I think one thing that would definitely be a “master key” to a lot of these ideas and perceptions posted here recently — talking about skepticism, doubt, and cynicism on one side, and belief, surrender, and faith on the other side — is the actual truth of the data you are using to form your views. Both of the “Andros” would do well to step back a bit, maybe quite a bit, and ask themselves — “Is this stuff really true that I’m “seeing” and “hearing” and “reading”? Or is is just a mishmash of fact and fiction? Kind of like the current literary genre of “historical fiction”, or “imaginative documentaries” that we are now seeing so much of in the bookstores these days.

    Osho was a master of this form, the “record” speaks quite clearly. It is more successful than fact, because that’s too boring, too mundane. And more successful than pure fiction, because no one looks at that as true — we are all way too modern to be that gullible anymore.

    You professional and amateur researchers out there, is your data verifiable? For sure? Or are you just basing your conclusions on what “someone” said, what “someone” wrote, painted, or morphed with a sophisticated computer software package — i.e., created for a controlled purpose?

    Did a foreign Muslim based terrorist conspiracy take down the World Trade Center towers? Or not.

    Can anyone here say for sure that Ma Vivek died in a Bombay hotel room, much less say that is was an overdose of drugs? Or are you simply repeating what you’ve heard or read? Maybe she never died at all.

    The only way you’de really know is if you were on the “inside” of the story. Created the story. Designed the events maybe. Otherwise it’s all shooting in the dark.

    And speaking of shooting, where’s frankie, the Midnight Cowboy of Picadilly Circus, with his pearl handled 6 shooters and pop culture sarcasm — these are very important ingredients in the mix…

    Cheers

  133. frank says:

    yes oshobob,its deep stuff…
    reading it all is really becoming like one of those gurdjieffian meditations, like reading beelzebob`s tales….

    to go back to my rock n roll view of the world:
    osho was like hendrix.love him or hate him,
    whether you gave away your albums long ago or still have his picture on your bedroom wall,
    and whether he saved the world or sent it quicker towards its doom,
    you are free to choose.
    but for sure,after him,the guitar will never be the same instrument again.
    even andreas and christopher christ et al will always find themselves riffing his licks whether they like it or not.

    job done.

  134. Anthony Thompson says:

    Ok. this is a fantastic ending for this article. now someone write some other article, so we can continue discussing… but please do not continue here… at least I would not know what else to say. and I hate copy and paste.
    anthony

  135. oshobob says:

    oh, come on Anthony, you are the copy and paste man penultimate. Remember? And who are you to determine when the thread ends? Do you think you are Professor Thompson and we are the students who must obey your wishes…ha, ha! lol !!! This ain’t Chile professor! This is not General Pinochet’s post-Freudian Community College. So you see, I wrote another post, so simple to do. frank had a good post there, almost no sarcasm if you notice, “job done” he says, frank is sobering up a bit, you see, I got him in Ring #2 and did a little old fashioned American “rope-a-dope” on him, ala Muhammad Ali, aka Casius Clay, the king of them all — a legend in his time, just like Hendrix….The Greatest, he says, though Osho mocked him, Osho thought HE was the greatest. Maybe he was. Time will tell.

    You know, I bet someone $100 I could push the posts up to over 100 in 7 days on this thread — have to pay my rent in a few days…using my wits in the Gurdjieffian sense to make a little quick cash. Won the bet, and got some good licks in too…hey, life is good, life is good!
    We should all be thankful.

    a haiku….

    summer night sky
    Hendrix guitar sounds float across the galaxies
    and the wind cries, mary…

  136. oshobob says:

    another haiku…

    Reich sits in his orgone box
    looks downs, screams “Listen, Little Man!”
    Dustin Hoffman opens the door, comes in and says,
    “Little Man, Big Man!” don’t you mean Bill?
    the autumn moon
    the cuckoo sings.

    ok, that’s over the 17 syllable limit for a haiku, and it doesn’t make much sense, but so what….?

  137. oshobob says:

    Interesting.

    The moment I bring up the subject of the validity of a researcher’s “sources” as to the truth of something, Mr. ‘Osho Research’ himself, Anthony “the footnote” Thompson, wants to wrap this thread up, and start a fresh one. Maybe this is getting too hot for you Tony?

    If the truth of the source material for any story is under question, then the story itself becomes circumspect. Right? And very quickly too. Then the so-called neutral academic, or journalist, just looks like someone passing on rumors, gossip, and designed lies. As is the case most of the time, really.

    I read your blog on the Calder thing, Anthony, where you ended boldly with your statement: “A quote without a reference is a lie.” Why do you assume the reference is telling the truth? Osho sannyasins have a long history of lying for their organization and master. And also, Osho used quotes from others (mostly made up on the spot by him, without any regard for accuracy) all his life without giving any references or footnotes for them. Is he an inveterate liar then? It would seem so, according to your grand rule. And yet you seem to love the man all the same. Seems like quite a conflict of interests to me.

    Interested to hear your response,
    oshobob

  138. horatio says:

    I think I found a friend in Oshobob… Do you think we could also go for a ktchen sink with running water? Thanks

  139. Andreas Roth says:

    Big mouth two ton tony falling back to his awkward age, bleeped into the ring: “we seem to agree on some points… it is not fun to discuss that. So, why not focus on our disagreement.”, I tried my best to ignore, but you know how it is with youngsters, they can bring you down even from your best intentions and make you dizzy… but I see that oshobob, being an old and experiended chan trained gamecock, comes up easily even from such a sweeping swipe of my “negativity”. And OshoBob (this time in capital letters), your OshoHendrix haiku is great!!!

  140. frank says:

    oshobob,dont delude yourself about your psychic pugilistic prowess!
    in fact you you are about as terrifying and effective as a one-legged gandhian in an ass-kicking contest!

  141. Dear Mr. Roth or Swami Andreas Roth
    (“swami”with a European name looks like a man with a bra!),

    From your words one can see that you are a level headed gentleman with a first hand experience of Osho and His people, and without any hesitation or shame or extra sugar, you bring it all out; black, grey and white.
    Please, write an article about future of Osho´s work and its future. Somehow world will loose one of its kind experiment, if we don´t look at the whole issue in an intelligent way. Many of us don´t need Poona for any reason but the life and the games we have seen in that campus were worth of its time. In the last 20 years Ashram with a new name resort has grown few hundred feet but like a snake whose poison has been taken away.
    I hope we can induct that stinginess, that sweet sour and bitter taste back. My Observation is that two Anglo Saxon gentlemen there have turned the whole garden into a Broccoli field.
    PS- There are 73 Andreas Roth at facebook, may be you are one of them. Honesty requires that people who write on the public platform should also be seen somewhere.

  142. Anthony Thompson says:

    Oshobob. I honestly had no intentions of hurting you public high school ego, and rebellious personality. I just thought the ending was beautiful, and do not know what else to add. of course you can post all you want. no need for me to say so.. is n´t it.?
    regarding my credentials, I already answer you that… and no mail in my mailbox. what do you want me to do? to go your house?
    Osho lied a lot. I already said that in a previous post.
    definitely not copying and pasting this time.
    anthony

  143. frank says:

    maybe vivek never died at all…..
    maybe anthony thompson is a twelve-foot lizard…
    maybe zen monasteries had beauty pageants for “pretty girls”,and then the “oshos” all got their “zen sticks” out for the winners…..
    maybe there are no facts,just factoids…….
    maybe oshobob is really osho baudrillard…….

  144. Andreas Roth says:

    frank, I think your last post was below your skills. I don’t know about oshobobs handicaps but for shure he is no Ghandian. I don’t like oshobobs swaggering but do you think Anthonys name dropping and endless list of references is much better? Do you think Anthonys conceit (“public high school ego”) is better? Just a bit more elaborated I’d say.

    I don’t read the Rolling Stone, but I liked your post about Hendrix, because this is kind of what I like to convey. Take away all the exaggeration, overstatement and projections and still Osho is great, even with his lies and drug use. But maybe a bit more human and not so good to build an ego upon. The brain is an extraordinary phenonema, and you find incredibly talented people in about any field and often they are not even recognized, as they are not making much fuzz about themselfs. I am more interested in the brain and astronomy rather then in enlightenment or astrology. I am interested in meditation and beauty, but not in esoterics and religious kitsch.

  145. oshobob says:

    So then, let’s make sure we don’t give Horatio a kitschen sink, and hopefully the sound of his running water won’t just be some godam book about the good ole Poona 1 days!

  146. Andreas Roth says:

    I don’t have a sink but a haiku by Sodo for Horatio and it IS “Poona 1 like”:

    In my ten-foot bamboo hut
    This spring:
    There is nothing:
    There is everything.

  147. oshobob says:

    Getting back full circle to the original theme of this thread — the new ‘Osho Rajneesh’, and “is he true, or is he just a fake” and all the other “oshos” too…

    This seems to be the point that all these posts return to: what is the real, and what is the false.

    Who is enlightened and who is not.

    Was Osho a man of truth, or a liar.

    Are the people who post on Sannyasnews what they make themselves out to be, or somethng else.

    And so on. And so forth.

    As to Osho Rajneesh, I saw a video of him on YouTube a month or so ago, where he seemed to be exasperated a bit…answering a question in Amsterdam about his whole trip, saying something like, “You know, I’m really getting tired of this circus.” (refering to himself, the red lungi Osho copycat thing, and all the objections it produced.)

    Reminded me of the preface Alok John made here about the same time, where he starts out his post, “Wearily, …” and then his thoughts.

    And Swami Dhanyam questions why the Osho vision has not exploded over all the world yet, the “Red Tide” of a wildfire everyone thought was at all times imminent. “I guess existence has it’s own timing,” Dhanyam resigns himself too, with maybe more than a slight touch of melancholy.

    I get the feeling everyone goes on, but they are getting very tired. Weary. Waiting for that “something” to happen, but not really knowing what it may be. But all playing their roles well in the interim.

    In the old days of Greek theater, when the actors held up their “personas” — masks with holes in them — in front of their faces, to play their roles in the drama at hand, when the drama was over, they just very simply put down the persona masks, and that was it. The show was over. Everyone went home, actors and audience, and went on with their normal everyday lives.

    Sounds like a pretty good precendent to me.

  148. frank says:

    it`s the twilight of the idols.

    only american idol left

    the wildfire`s burned itself out

    the circus has left town

    when the music`s over
    turn out the light

    enlightenment hasnt conquered the world

    i havent got as many teeth as i used to

    i think i`ve got shamanic depression

    goodnight

  149. oshobob says:

    “Goodnight, Frank.”

    HAL 9000 Computer, to Frank, just prior to his unforseen space journey to Jupiter and Beyond, in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

  150. horatio says:

    Getting back to what Oshobob was saying,, and by the way thankyou all for keeping the horatio’s water situation in mind, as i haven’t showered in quite a while, even moreso than usual as we’ve been having a drought, I propose we send one of us to visit the new Osho and check him out….. maybe take some pictures and get some recordings as well as that could be worth something… As i live days away from the nearest airport on the other side of the world, i propose Anthony go and do further research into this.. I believe he has the necessary credentials to make an impartial evaluation or investigation. as it may turn out… ??? what say thee to this?

  151. Andreas Roth says:

    You may know Akira Kurusawas movie: “The Seven Samurais”. There are these seven characters, somehow a basic typology to me. As you may remember there is this one guy who is not a samurai, but by all means wants to be a samurai. He is the fool. He gets hit and is mucked about all the time. But finally he is accepted and equally stands by the side of the others and plays an important role in the big fight. I think most of us are like this guy. We were outsiders. Stangers on a strange planet. For many and good reasons we could not adopt to society, to all the lies and conformities! And then the wonder happened, another freak, onother outsider, a master fool challenged them all and suddenly there seemed to be a way. We were uttely happy and lucky too. And we grew up in a period of time were anyhing seemed possible. But now?

    Many of Oshos concepts are of the last century and came from an indian background or just were meant to provoke. Much of it can not be applied to humanity, it is outdated or does not work. Not even Bill Gates was able to foresee the internet. Somebody wrote on this website, the Oregon incidents might not have happend in times of the internet. I don’t know, but it is reasonable to me. We need scientific methods and meditation to center our brain and emotions. Without all the superstitions and culturally dependencies. Much of what Osho did say about the inner is true and very beautiful, but there is also a lot of fiction. And waiting is not a good idea. The red tide will not come. We are through with it and I guess Osho won’t be on the agend again from here to eternity.

    When I came back from the US in 1985 I did not moan. Now I own three beautiful places, one in Munich, one on the country side admidst Europes largest national park and a mountain cabin in the Bavarian alps (see one of the places at http://www.artedojo.com). I did not inherit. I created, using all my understanding and skills. So I do not advocate poverty, I am all for creativity and I think it is important to get on your feet and create your own sink instead of smoking dope and waiting for the messiah. I’d rather not hope for the new Oshos to do the job. And it does not matter so much if you are poor or rich. Many rich people indeed are just greedy idiots with money, not contributing at all for mankind, clinging to rubbish. The place I like the most is my little cabin in the mountains and it is exacly like Sodo tells it in his haiku. By the way where are you living Horatio?

    We intelligently must develop new solutions, new ways, a new language even, instead of fighting off each other, playing childish or nostalgic games. We certainly do not need central control or dictatorship of any kind. We need creativitity and intelligent, interconnected autonomy. Education and compassion and the ability to adopt to change. Yet I fear dictatorship will be the most popular way of leadership to come. How long the peak oil phenonema will be going on? 20 years, 30 years? Soon there will be about 10 billion humans on this planet while the natural resources end. So I think we will need a lot of humor, but the new Oshos don’ really make me laugh, copies are boring…

  152. Kranti says:

    Wow… Too much opinions have gone down under sannyasnews in the last 3 days . I feel the need to jump in atleast because Andreas started his long mails by addressing to my post.

    I think in the name of expressing opinions freely we all get caught up in what excatly Osho warned us. Too much of mind stuff..Too much of judgements and Too much analysis on the basis of second hand info.

    I am unable to understand one thing Andreas. If you can belive what Deeksha or some X or Y says about Osho..Why cant trust Osho himself.

    We are fortunate to read or listen to osho directly and there is no misinterpretation or manipulation of what he tried to communicate is involved. We cant say the samething about older mystics and religions

    There are two aspects to Osho..

    One is his vision of conciousness and the second the methods he himself used to communicate his vision. I think we shouldnt be mixing up both. Our concern is the only the vision not the methods he used.

    To me the beauty of Osho’s vision is such that when you listen to him directly and apply the same in your daily life you just grow .You dont have anything to lose. So what is all the trouble and what is the need for analysing what Osho did and he didnt under specific circumstances.

    Cant we tak up take up his vision even when we realise that we dont have anything to lose ?

    What people in Pune do is to carry on with his vision and try to preserve it hoping that it will help few human beings . But they cant use some of the methods & communication Osho used which were very subjective and relevant only to him and specific circumstances. So Pune has the need to present things in a different way.

    I think people in Pune are doing a fantastic work of keeping the essense of Osho’s teaching alive while at the same time ensuring that no junk is collected around his vision. That to me is too big a responsibility and we just cant login into a forum to just to comment and log out and go for a smoke. It cant be that casual.

    When i said some junk has gone out of my system i meant it. Do we meant to say we never mature after listening to Osho. Osho has great postive impact on our psyche if we are open and our intention is hoenst..that is to grow in consiousness..not to play mental games..

    So to me it is a question of honesty and openess about how we look at Osho and for what reason..

    Is it to understand his vision and see how it can help us or it is just to put him on a comparion table like mobile products and discuss the pros and cons of what he did or didnt .. compared to JK or Gurdieff..

    It is all depends on our intentions Andrea. Although i do have lot of respect for people like you and Anthony who have been personally with these masters and you know certain things like energy etc which someone like me cannot even commnet as i have never met Osho or JK in person.

    End of the day it is upto the individual to see whether Osho can make a positive impact on his life and if he or she is convinced they are going to adopt it.

    Discussions like these can help some people to some extent..But beyond a point it is up to that individual

  153. Christopher Colder says:

    “Osho, gifted with great talents, fooled himself and others.”

    -I have heard this one before from other disenchanteds. They will concede that he had great talents but that he wasn’t enlightened. Could have been though if he had had behaved himself. They will also concede that “he was a very very intelligent man, BUT…” How did he manage to fool himself though. He must have been very very intelligent to have done that.

    “Osho was a human being as everyone, but he acted like a god, that’s the problem.”

    -No, seekers wanted him to be God so that they could become as gods themselves: that was the problem.

    “Everbody with some authentic experience of life recognises it.”

    -What is an unauthentic experience of life?

    “It is obvious that many became conditioned by Osho, up to such a degree that they can not see reality anymore.”

    -What is reality? Isn’t it relative? Isn’t that what a very very intelligent Jewish man named Einstein pulled out of his hat? Not to mention Bhagwan Mahavira a couple of thousands of years earlier?

    “Surrender is nothing but a form of believe”

    - Not the surrender of belief itself

    “Surrender is completely different from love.”

    -Perhaps love is surrender – the surrender of the desire to become.

    “Why should a person do that? Because he hopes for something!”

    - Why should a person not do that? Because he hopes for something

    “However, the ego does not disappear this way. In fact it cannot, because it is a vital part of our brain.”

    -What is the ego? If you know what it is, then you must be ego-less.

    “But doubt is important and usefull.”

    -Bhaggy himself already said that. And he added that doubt only becomes perfected when it doubts doubt itself.

    “…..a massive exploitation of individuals and their lifes resources.”

    -Perhaps many Sannyasins were willing to be exploited so that they could gain something in return. No-one was holding them prisoner. Bhaggy stated clearly from the get-go something to the effect of: “you come here to gain something – that is your agenda, but mine is something completely different. Through me you will only lose. But I will make of you beautiful losers.” Not so?

    “Osho several times denied the famous saying of Lord Acton “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”.”

    -Did he? I thought he said that the statement was not perfectly true; rather that corruption already exists in a dormant fashion within one and that power is just a catalyst for its expression.

    “Oshos ideas about bioengineering, biological breeding and selection.”

    -Whoever finds these ideas preposterous is obviously still identified with their own personal DNA as self as well as attached to their own ancestral lineage – the tribal heritage. The idea is to create more perfect vessels for consciousness to express itself. Almost everyone would like some sort of improvement to their physical form. Why stop at dental cosmetics? May as well go the whole hog. Why do most women desire taller men? Why the interest in complete make-overs? Bio-engineering is the ultimate complete makeover.

    “Oshos strange and esoteric interpretations about the role of Hitler in history.”

    -Jeezzzz, he already said he was a mad-man. What more do you want? Was Osho supposed to take his entourage to the wailing wall and do a first part of the mystic Rose-job on the bricks? Aeghhh, he was only winding up the Sannyasins who considerd themselves Jewish (even though sannyas was supposed to be a relinquishing of identity with nations, religions and race.) Same goes for all his Jew jokes. He was touching a nerve which wasn’t supposed to have been twitching.

    Your hurt comes from disappointment. Expectation is the mother of all frustrations. I believe (yes believe with a bit of an inkling that the greatest clue is written upon Osho’s samadhi: – “OSHO Never Born – Never Died Only Visited this Planet Earth.”

    Our DNA, RNA, and Language is all Alien code. Get without the program.

    Is that better mods?

  154. Kranti says:

    Andreas

    You say ” So I do not advocate poverty, I am all for creativity and I think it is important to get on your feet and create your own sink instead of smoking dope and waiting for the messiahI’d rather not hope for the new Oshos to do the job. ”

    Thats exactly what Osho said. Dont wait for Messiah to come.. He never Advocated poverty.. Just to communicate this he lived a good life..again that was his communication style and method.. Message is more important.

    You say ” We intelligently must develop new solutions, new ways, a new language even, instead of fighting off each other, playing childish or nostalgic games ”

    Thats exactly what Osho did. In his area of sprituality . Intelligently develop methods and language to communicate..to reach out..and to help.

    Ofcourse Osho was not into software enginnering like Bill gates. He had a role to play in helping people in the area of conciousness and that he did so beautifully..

    Andreas , materially you are a true Osho disciple..although i will not know what you do for spritual growth. May be some other master’s style and language suits you better.. if you are in it. or you may not need one.

    In general , It depends on whether one is interested in only a good material life or he is interested in addressing deeper questions about life

    One day i took a small boat to an Island near Singapore and sat on a rock watching the sea.. Thought such a place will automatically push me into a state of bliss.. It didnt.. My mind was in full flow..It didnt even allow me to enjoy the sea and breeze infront of me.. than it struck me .. the domination of mind and its limitations

    If someone is not interested in deeper questions about life than there is no need to go to Osho.. Like what Osho said it is not anyone’s business to interfer if someone is not interested in spiritual growth..

    I used to kick myself in the earlier years that i am not like others in going behind success.. Later it dawned on me that i am what i am .. i am interested in getting answers to deeper questions of Life and thats what is going to fulfill me..

    Altough a house like yours will not do any harm in my spiritual growth.. I did see your website.. It was very beautiful…

  155. Andreas Roth says:

    Dear Kranti,

    - You asked why I can believe in what Deeksha or some X or Y says and not trust Osho himself. That’s very simple. It is because Osho lied and Deeksha told the truth.

    - There is a lot of misinterpretation and manipulation, on all the sides. And it will not end soon.

    - Consciousness and method are not two completely separate entities. The goal never justifies the method! For e.g. communism was a well intended idea, but did not work because of it’s methods and its wrong understanding of men. My point is that Osho used all kinds of concepts even highly dangerous or unethical ones to get attention and power and this destroyed his work.

    - Oshos “message” as I understood it, is about being and I found that he unnecessarily was pretending about being something which is a fiction, for a purpose which may have been truthfull in the beginning, but it became a trap in the end.

    - About the ones in Pune we discussed a lot already. Within the given frame of mind, I think they are well intended up to a certain degree.

    - You do not need to have respect. I was not personally with “these” masters. I decline any authority from all of that, that is all myth. The experience of travelling certainly is different from reading a book, but anything else is bull…

    - if you think this is a mental game, why hang around here. Just forget about it and have a good time.

    I completely agree that: “at the end of the day it is upto the individual to see whether Osho can make a positive impact on his life and if he or she is convinced they are going to adopt it.”

    This also gives me an excuse to end here… thank’s to all of you folks for sharing.

  156. frank says:

    andreas,
    but who will speak the language now for all those people who are `strangers in a strange land` like we were in the 70s.? and there are loads of them all over the world.capitalism manufactures them at about the same rate as it makes cars!

    understanding/wisdom will never come in a logical orderly fashion.that`s why j krishnamurti was such a total dead-ender.even he had to go a bit loopy ,shagging his alcoholc PR man`s wife behind his back for years.
    its understandable – that kind of clear-cut truth he was peddling is one-legged – its bound to slip on its ass sooner or later.
    being human is about going bonkers and coming back again,otherwise,why live on such a wacky planet?

    so why reason with people who are goin bonkers?
    tell `em any old rubbish.let them get lost in their own way…then maybe they find their way home …maybe not….
    takes trust trust.
    like that zen story about the master thief who locked his son in the house that they were raiding when the cops arrived,and he had to figure fast for himself to get away.or maybe he didn`t get away.who knows?
    that`s the paralogic of the trickster world we live in.

    and you can`t begrudge people`s youthful folly without becoming an old fart!

    “the fool who persists in his folly will become wise”

  157. Anthony Thompson says:

    Ok. so no end to this post….
    I do not really know what to answer. so much already.
    For me there are two points: one was what Osho awake in each one of us and the other what Osho was himself. and if that supports what we grew out of the interaction, weather we were with him or read his books and practiced his meditations.

    I can not know what was osho really was.
    what was his truth, unless i lived in his house went to his room and spend intimate time with him.
    And none of the folks in this forum did that, so we have to assume that what we read or listen to people say it is truth… or not. When you say you believe Deeksha, and not Osho, or Devageet, Andreas,.you are making a conscious choice for a piece of information that fits with your own understanding of events. When I say I Believe Osho and Devageet and not Deeksha, it is because that fits my understanding of events. It is not a problem of who lies or whom says the truth, because unless we are eyewitnesses, and we are not, we have no access to truth. and This is undeniable.

    So, ultimately, what we are stuck with, including my self, and you, Andreas, is what WE believe to be true. That is all.
    Arguments, may come and go, but this is the bottom line.

    What Osho awake or helped to grow on each one of us, is another matter. In my case was meditation. Something that save my life. and I am deeply grateful for that.

    Anthony

  158. frank says:

    so everyone`s got their own zen dream………

    for oshobob its about pretty chinese girls and donkey dick soup……….

    for horatio,its edging it in a shed of the outer reaches of nowhere……

    for andreas its `zen and the art of property mainenance`……..

    tony doesnt like zen.the fascists with sticks probably remind him of school…

    kranti`s orthodox neo-oshozen, he`ll be enlightened soon……..

    frank cant tell the difference between a zenstick and a slapstick, he`s looking for a pie in the original face….

    it`s a wonderful world………..

  159. one says:

    the guy who posted as christopher colder (not christopher calder)! wow. what a nut case. throws a light of its own upon the master and yourself. such a tissue of contortions. worse than the ayatollas. the aliens must have eaten up your brain. your post proofs it.

  160. horatio says:

    Hey alot of good perspectives out there….
    as you all are sharing your deeper thoughts..

    Andreas, what you have created is very beautiiful…. no denying that…. have your addressed all sides of yourself?
    with all that you have and have done and accomplished, and with your beautiful partner, are at peace with yourself? If not, what is missing?

    As for me I enjoy the rugged lifestyle here in alaska for half the year and then enjoy travelling. while here I’m working full time and then another few hours a day doing ip work on my own ideas and web design work for friends …..because its enjoyable….. all from a state of no-mind….. the surrender has been complete… its a beautiful thing… and its all about hauling the water and smelling the flowers….

    update; it rained today and i’ve collected the water off the roof ….

    life provides everything

  161. oshobob says:

    I think what’s needed now in this strangest of strange worlds — for the new generations and the old — is an Event. A Big Event. A Controversial Event. Very big, very strange, and very shocking.

    All the oshos will then be seen for what they are — prelim intro garage-bands, warming up the audience for the Main Show.

    If you bring a live dragon into a living room full of people, that would be an Event no one could ignore.

  162. Anthony Thompson says:

    One..come on! that is not the style we post here. If we are going to insult someone at least we do it with class and wittiness. we are a group of gentlemen/ gentlewomen from all over the world ( Alaska, USA, Chile,England, India and Germany). We all agree and disagree with each other, but we do not directly insult each other… we argue!
    anthony

  163. one says:

    so bob, how about another 9/11?

  164. oshobob says:

    No, One.
    I’m thinking along the lines of the light of truth exposing the darkness of lies. With humor and celebration. Remember, a dragon is a very benevolent creature.
    oshobob

  165. shantam prem says:

    A letter of me will create such a long thread, i feel happy. I have enjoyed the postings of Andreas Roth and have just seen his utterly tasteful website and the inner and outer life he has created after Rajneeshpuram. Amazing fact is that after spending many of his years with Osho, he has not found a single book of Him to be mentioned in “Literature”. I am cuious where is the hurt feeling.
    God willing, i wish to be a visitor in his cottage.

  166. Kranti says:

    Thank you all for sharing…

    I would like to end this with one post. After reading and listening to Osho for years i started listening / reading number of new age masters from Adyashathi to Eckhart Tolle to Balsekhar..Seems the essense of all the masters are the same..Only the communication style and methods are different.Let us stick to the essense.

    Take care

  167. Christopher colder says:

    Anthony wrote:”…we do not directly insult each other… we argue!”

    Sokay Anthony, ‘One’ did not directly insult me.

    One, you wrote:”Wow. what a nut case. throws a light of its own upon the master and yourself.”

    How is that statement to be interpreted? It appears to express a sentiment that ‘the master’ was (also) a nutcase. Hey but at least (it) threw a light. It didn’t throw darkness or a shadow, that has to be something worthwhile doesn’t it? And, at least you refer to Osho as ‘the Master’. One, if you accept that he was a master, why do you hold such resentment towards what you see as contradictory behaviour from the man? Didn’t he always say that he was a self-contradicting person?

    When I used the word ‘alien’ previously, I did not mean ‘extra-terrestrial’ One. I meant terrestrial.

  168. Isha says:

    Dear Shantam,

    as Andreas is conducting a sesshin he asked me to tell you, that his posts are not because of him being hurt, but about that which he is writing and he earnes a lot of negativity for it. Usually he never refers to Osho as this is not his style.

  169. Kranti says:

    Tell him we always knew he is , in spirit a real disciple of Osho..although he kept denying it… Convey our Love to him.

  170. Isha says:

    Thank you, Kranti. I told him and he just smiled. He can be tough somethimes, I know. It’s nice that you did not feel hurt. By the way, for nostalical reasons we keep a chief zafu, a zen stick and a tag which says “Master” in a corner. Everybody is free to use it. But there are so many masters around these days, the whole thing is just forgotten and the chief zafu remains empty.

  171. frank says:

    forget the zen stick.
    leave a few banana skins lying around.
    you will get better results…..

  172. shantam prem says:

    Through this modren technology of interneting, we have done a beautiful Satsang(The company with TRuth) here. I am sure this is what Osho loves, His work in Pune will be flourished thousands times if the head strong team of managers trust the intelligence of His seekers, diversity of opinions which grow like the Jungle around His cottage; an international park of inner fire…
    Isha, please tell Andreas that one of his dream he has shared here, i hope should turn a reality. The sarcastic tone is heart felt. Such people should represent the future inner circle; people with the backbone, integrity.
    In reality, let us see, whether the North Korea changes first or the Burma or the 17,koregaon Park, Pune.

  173. Kranti says:

    That reminds me of one of the discourses where Osho said.. ( Not exact reproduction ) . Look around and see ..so many peopel are slipping banana skins..have a laugh..life is not serious

    Ya..Osho would have preffered banana skins instead of Zen sticks.. He would have even used them to awaken someone..

  174. frank says:

    everyone`s signing off now,so i will end with a haiku by that least well-known of all zen masters john cooper clarke:

    to con-vey one`s mood
    in se-ven-teen syll-a-bles
    is v-ery dif-fic

  175. Konrad says:

    What’s up? Such a long post…. And no one has ever sat with Shailendra? Is the guy a least funny like Osho was? Guess that’s not worth the ticket price though …. Insightful posts folks……… frank…. I hate to critisize your last post as your usually flawless…. but would ver-y be more accurate?

    shantam prem, don’t mention sat sang….. some of these guys will run away…. and they are the funny ones who make it interesting to read…… unfortunately, sounds like andreas got to much heat and can’t stand the fire…. oh well…….

  176. To all the idiots above,
    I am a Osho disciple since 1986, been in the Poona Commune till 1991. After Osho left his body, I was distraught and chaning his name constantly as a mantra, whenever I felt I missed his presence, till one experience that happened four years after he left his body. As I completed translating one of his Hindi books into English, sitting in my hometown, I felt Oshos energy pulling me upwards, and within seconds, I was joined into a previously unknown energy, that experience lasted for a few minutes. And I am not ahamed to tell you that I have not remembered Osho once since then.

  177. one says:

    finally a enlightened one here, chanting oshos name as a mantra (coca cola, coca cola…) and does not remember osho since he was “pulled up”, but writes on sannyasnews.com, translates osho and calls everyone an idiot. oshos spiritual legacy: cuckoos all around and no way to stop it…

  178. Kranti says:

    Some experience happened to me also. When i shared with someone, he said.. ‘ just forget it’ ..I did ..

    Think thats what Osho said..Dont get attached to experiences..

  179. Yes Kranti, experiences are meant to forget. You are not supposed to brandish them. Well then some of them leave an impact on you, don’t they. And I am talking about the impact that left on me, not so much about the experience itself

  180. The purpose why I did decide to jump in was, in all your discussions , the essence of a spiritual seeker was missing. As with Osho, he did make it clear that he has a presence which was transendental to his physical presence. And he reminded almost in every discourse that the disciples of his should recognize this presence so that when he was no more in front of you, still they would be able to receive his blessings/guidance.
    Now this applies to those who worked on this path, and were fortunate enough to be sometimes in his presence.
    To my surprise i have seen people who did not see Osho physically were drenched in his energy after the evening white robe brotherhood gathering in Pune.
    And we in india, do have well recorded instances of people receiving guidance from past masters, and mind you this is not hallucination.

  181. frank says:

    hi sanjay,
    i am pleased that you have remembered to forget osho….
    so,why dont you purchase a tea-cosy,pop it on your head,grow a beard, put on a colourful robe,
    call yourself osho sanjay, then talk to everyone you meet about your very impotant experience?
    it may only have lasted a few minutes,but you will be able to spin it out for years,even lifetimes,if you really make the grade…..

    you dont have to give up your day job immediately…
    once you have a few disciples,and they start picking up the tab,it will simply drop away……
    and dont worry about the “idiots”here on this thead,you will not get far with these unenlightened buffalos,they have already missed long ago…….
    they will never be able to grasp the significance of your very important message….
    you need some real proper idiots with money and karma to burn……..
    don`t worry they will be coming……

  182. shantam prem says:

    Mr. Sanjay,
    What a nice yet utterly stupid way to address; “to al the idiots above”!
    Please, remember if you have some experience between your legs, armpits or ears, others have the same in their own way.
    ANd than you go on barking that essence of spiritual seekers is missing. Don’t you see your fucking judgemental mind, Essence of spiritual seeker; is this the apple or banana juice, that too from your farm house!
    Please, read all the posts in all the articles at this site, may be none will be as boastful as yours.

  183. Anthony Thompson says:

    where is an Andreas? this is bread for the monkey.
    anthony

  184. one says:

    if you had enough of all this nonsens, see something which really is about change:


    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  185. Kranti says:

    One

    It was a master stroke..

    I expected something funny and opened the video with excitement..Although what came out there was serious speech.. I couldnt control laughing…Whatever that guy was speaking looked funny for me and i couldnt take seriously.. U turn …180 degress..

    you made that speech an extension of Shailendra Grp..

    Thanks for that..

  186. Kranti says:

    As an afterthought , One Were you serious? Did you take a poloticians speech that seriously as something which is going to bring about change?

  187. i sincerely opologize if that expression caused offence to your sensibilities. Part of the reason is that this is the first time in the last 15 years have i read/particiated any debate. After osho’s death i was drawn inside, and I am not in touch with either the commune or any of the sannayasins, either physically or on the net. So the expression was a tad loud. And I am not articulate with words either. However I would like to explains a few things that were intrepreted.
    1) I am not enlightened, nor I think that I am. Although I believe there is such an experience and hope to experience it someday
    2) I am not a guru type/ teacher type either. Never in my life have I tried to teach anyone what osho had to say, because being in the commune, there was never a chance of that ever happening. And even when I left the commune 18 years ago, the outside world where i am living had any interest in Osho or his teaching. So you can rule that out that I will ever be able to become a mini guru/ nor has the thought ever crossed my mind.
    3) I feel fortunate to be there during the last years of osho. And greatful to the master for the opportunity.
    4) I am happy to be what i am, I do not intend to be in anyone elses shoes or like to copy what others are doing.
    wish all of you the very best in your lives and Goodbye.

  188. Kranti says:

    Osho talks about a guy who went to Himalayas and lived there for 15 years..Convincing himself that he is a sage..After 15 years he came to town where one guy stepped on his foot.. This sage got wild and slapped him..all the suppressed anger came out..

    Atleast in that guys case someone stepped on his foot..and he had a reason to throw out anger..

    We didnt even provoke you Sanjay.. You came ..called everyone idiots , apologised and said goodbuy..

    Everything happens..No doer thereof

  189. Anthony Thompson says:

    Sanjay. again, we are sophisticated people here. we do not insult people for free… we make them feel inferior by putting greater arguments. if you feel like staying… please do so.
    And Frank, would you be so kind to through a bit of your acid sarcasm here.. it so needed!
    anthony

  190. Kranti, I have not left. I was trying to put an end to the provocation I caused, It was probably due to the way we talk in my part of the world. Less sophisticated. And to Anthony, I think we are in a business of uplifting consciousness, if i am correct, at lest I think I am in, and it will be the last thing in my mind “to make anyone feeel inferior” either by words or by intent. Again i must say, it was simlply my way to say, hey listen! and I am not going to repeat it, as I am really not interested in pointing fingers to others, although that is what happened here. I like to put my energy in positive ways, directions instead. Have been alone all along, simply could not become part of any group, either in the commune or outside. And I am happy the way I am. I am the kind of person who likes to create least trouble for himself.

  191. Kranti says:

    Can anyone of you tell who this teacher is ? Just came across a video. Thanks.

    video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8295712074663719059

  192. Kranti says:

    No problem Sanjay.. Join the fun

    Dont take anything seriously..

    I was like that .. never used to participate in discussions.. but i am changing

    It is good to pick up few arguements with people like Anthony or Andreas..

    We all know we are not going to get enlightened by posting few messages in a forum ..

    But sometimes it helps you to put our ego in place..

    Life is beautiful.

  193. Vishakha says:

    Sanjay,

    Good to see someone like you joining the forum. I bet Osho would have said ‘idiots’ to everyone here for sure..But kind of hilarious to see everyone here jumping on you..that makes even more interesting that they atleast don’t think themselves as ‘idiots’. Basically most of here are depending on borrowed knowledge to prove each other superior, continuing their ego trips again..the same old story..

    It is hard to find people who are talking from their experience..

    And I can totally relate to you that inner experiences leaves you a certain impact, you are transformed at some point. And I don’t mind anybody calling me ‘idiot’.. I will look into myself and meditate on it..If you meditate over your ‘ego getting hurt’..you will never react or backfire..That’s what I learned from Osho..fills you with tremendous peace and silence. If you backfire, it multiplies and you simply waste your energy and find yourself exhausted..

  194. oshobob says:

    I would agree Kranti, that
    “Life is beautiful”

    Also,
    life is dangerous.

    So,
    danger is beautiful.

  195. amrito says:

    hmmm…i think we need a new article !!!

    haahaa!!!

  196. Kranti says:

    Sanjay was a hoesnt guy..He called others Idiots directly

    Vishaka said the same thing so indirectly.

    ‘ that makes even more interesting that they atleast don’t think themselves as ‘idiots’

    He was even surprised that others dont think themselves as diots

    there are different ways of doing the same thing and cheating oneself

    People shared here their experiences..good or bad..expressed opinions.. whatever they exprss are their own

    How can we say everyone is trying to prove their superiority over others

    there is always an urge to share.. that is the core of human beings

    even enlightened beings want to share..

    Just because people make an effort to say something or share something doesnt mean they are idiots and they are here to prove their superiority.

    Is that not a quick judgement or borrowed knowledge

    As long as you are not on other side of enlightenment table you will have opinions , arguments and sharing of the same.

  197. Anthony Thompson says:

    well, I agree with amrito… we need a new article.
    a challenge.
    by the way, when i said we were sophisticated and making people feel inferior with our arguments, I was being sarcastic and laughing at ourselves… me included.
    + anthony

  198. oshobob says:

    I disagree that a new article is needed. A new article will be with the same people. Same minds. Same thoughts. Same humor. Same fights. Same relationships.
    Why not just continue here with what you want to do. You’ll take the new article and re-route it to that environment anyway, in a very short time.

    Why not get some new clothes? Change your girlfriend. Change your master maybe. Eat a new diet. Move to a new country. Watch a new movie.

    So, Amrito, who did not contribute to this thread at all, all of sudden comes on, and suggests a new article would be appropriate. Odd. He must have something to say on a different subject — isn’t he one of the Arun PR front men here in the West. Maybe he wants to get into some PR work for the Indians coming to the West on their juggernaut of re-introducing Osho to the barbarian countries in Europe and America. I think it’s Ma Dharm Jyoti in June, and Arun in July. We’ll see.

    And Anthony, who tried unsuccessfully to put a stop to this thread a while back, comes back again with the same thought. He wants a new challenge. Just the wrong thing for a meditator — as Osho so rightly points out, a challenge is nothing but food for the ego, and that’s what’s you’re trying to eliminate on your road to Oshohoo….er, I mean… Buddhahood.

    Plus, I made a side wager — being a bit short on rent this month — that I could get the post number to over 200 by Saturday. I need the cash, bad.

    So, Amrito, if you want to talk about something, just jump in, you can easily hook onto something here, and get into the subject that’s a load on your mind now.
    What wait for someone else to initiate something, just start here and now, and if the editors at sannyasnews start a new article, you can easily transfer your mind there, no problem.

    Here’s the new look of my website homepage, with a photo of Osho reading a book with a chess set in the background. Can anyone explain that picture?

    http://www.livingworkshop.net

    And just where did Arun get some of Osho’s body parts to create an Osho Samadhi at his Osho Tapoban Center? That’s would be a great subject for a new article. What a fascinating story it must be!

    Cheers,
    oshobob

  199. Horatio says:

    Okay, now you guys are sounding like idiots.

    Ya, ya, I’m an idiot too… But not as big as Vishakha….

    so there….

  200. Vishakha says:

    Thanks Horatio,

    I am not denying that I am not an idiot. That’s why I am getting Osho’s guidance not to become one. lol..I am very pleased that you are less idiot than me..Never thought of measuring ‘idiots’..I thought idiots are simply idiots..

  201. Vishakha says:

    Kranti,

    You are such a sweet person. I have been reading your post a lot. You speak from your heart, enjoyed reading all your posts. I will never even dare to say an ‘idiot’.. to you. You are not..follow your heart. But me saying idiot or wise or enlightened doesn’t make any difference in terms of inner search or existential matters. Life is vast, words are irrelevant. Certain things can’t be put into words. And everybody’s inner experience is unique and everybody’s receptive ability is unique too. This is just a very narrow discussion without the guidance of anyone enlightened master, and what do u expect?? Turmoil, chaos and confusion..But quite fun and gives me a good laugh !

  202. Anthony Thompson says:

    FranK… where are you?

  203. Horatio says:

    Vishakha,,, I was testing your statement of not minding someone calling you an idiot… you passed…
    but there is a forum master, enlightened and mysteriously humorous…. a true mystic ??? Some say he ia a growth on Anthony’s stomache…. but he’s not talking at the moment and Anthony misses him judging from the post above…..

  204. Kranti says:

    Vishaka

    I think there are only two kinds of people…

    One category completely ignorant of anything like witnessing , enlightenment happily leading life by watching TV Serials and following their Hollywood heroes

    the second category is made up of people like what we see here on this forum who are making all efforts to awake..although the struggles one goes thru the awakening process is varied..

    I agree with you Vishaka..It more and more dawns on me that actual awakening has nothing to with all opinions and arguments etc..But these efforts certainly clears the way for actual awakening

    Without all these opinions , analysis , debates , arguements how do we expect the stage to be set for awakening?

    It will be an accident otherwise…Dont know i will post a message when i awaken

  205. amrito says:

    I’ve taken the debate straight to Osho Dhara.

    Here are the responses.

    I Had to be quite “Frank” when I started this debate on Osho Dhara’s facebook site in order to get responses on what seemed to be a pretty lethargic message board. So here goes:

    Amrito:

    June 5, 2009 at 10:25pm
    Osho Dhara…Has reduced Osho and his work to “Osho” Diarhea.

    Who and what is Osho Dhara? 3 stooges running an enlightenment circus? Its quite hilarious.

    I remember at one point Osho Dhara had a website for Enlightined ones. Y’know after you do a course, write an exam, pay a few bill, get a phone call and you’re enlighetened. No more Swami, now you’re Osho Swami XYZ. Plus, you got to be on the website of the “river” of enlightened ones.

    So what’s the deal with Nadhabrahma being changed to Brahmanadh>? Why not just called it “Nadhabrahma Remix”?

    Why criticize Osho Dynamic meditation and claim it ruptures people’s stomachs? When Osho himself kept the method central in the Ashram, who are these stoojes representing?

    They are simply priestful politicians turning big money on a profitable Osho.

    Alot of Osho Dhara has little to do with Osho. They are as selective as Pune about what they want to publish regarding Osho’s lectures. So the majority of what they publish is about Osho and his advice to find living masters. And while they present these texts, their feet are in your face so you don’t even have to bow down.

    These three popes should just name their own brand. But ofcourse they want OSHO OSHO OSHO in the background of the picture. Unfortunately Osho can;t come out and really give them a good Zen slap.

    They are simply CLOWNS.

    I don’t say this because my “time stopped” when Osho left his body in 1990. Nope. His energy is certainly vibrant and available and it need not be represented. There are enlightened disciples of Osho, but not in Osho Diarhea :: sorry sorry:: Osho Dhara. They just dont dress like Osho, talk like Osho, change Osho’s meditations, call themselves Osho nor disrespect Osho by specifically selecting discourses that fit their agenda.

    Uh oh…i think i’m going to find out that many in this group won’t like me.

    Oh well lets wait and see.

    -Amrito
    Reply to Your Post
    Delete Post

    Post #5Sunil Khanal (Stanford) wroteon June 6, 2009 at 5:11am
    I am a novice seeker of meditation, but I couldn’t help commenting on the post by Amrito. I had quite a wonderful experience at one of the initial level programs by Oshodhara, and based on my knowledge of Osho’s teachings, I found Oshodhara quite delivers Osho’s message.

    Amrito’s lack of knowledge on what is going in Oshodhara is exacerbated by his obdurate remarks. As far as I know, the aim of Oshodhara is to provide seekers a living and vibrant guidance on their spiritual journey. The essence of teaching remains the same as that Osho gave, but the flavor of teaching and grading is definitely going to differ because it’s given by new masters. Many people find it easy to cling on to a dead master rather than to seek someone alive, explained perhaps by their arrogance.

    Regarding the title of ‘Osho’, I don’t care how the title is given or who gets it. I just find that Oshodhara resonates with my spiritual seekings, and I’ll continue to receive its guidance as long as it continues to resonate. I would assume that a seeker would be totally apathetic to such bells and whistles. I can’t see why Amrito is so troubled by the titles.

    As Osho said, the forms of meditations deemed appropriate by masters differs on the basis of seeker’s needs. Hence it is foolish to assume that dynamic meditation is the only important meditation.

    Oshodhara is the live stream of Osho’s teachings. I hope many people will be able to benefit from what the masters are trying to convey.

    -Sunil
    Reply to Sunil
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    Post #6Pradyumna Pandey wrote23 hours ago
    Beloved Amrito,

    Thank you very much for your comments. However, I would like to request to you, before writing/telling something, first experience or taste the essence of Oshodhara by first level program “Anand Pragya”. As Sunil said, if we taste the Oshodhara program and directly meet with oshodhara Sadguru Triveer, Acharyashree and Acharya’s. Then you are eligible to comment the program and Oshodhara. As I am a seeker of spirituality, I could not found any small stone in Oshodhara like your blame. Your blames and comments seems to baseless and pre-conditioned about the Oshodhara. If you want to really more about Oshodhara and importance of Living master for our spiritual journey, pls. visit : https://www.oshodhara.org.in/LitArticleReader.aspx?ID=37.” Please, go deep within you and you can found what is right and what is wrong yourself.
    If you ask me, I am really very much benefited by Oshodhara program and Living master. Oshodhara is a living University for all spiritual seeker, where we can found ultimate joy “Ananad” in our life with the help of living master. Reply to Pradyumna
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    Post #7Namrata Pandey wrote21 hours ago
    Dear Amrito,
    Thanks for your concerned about Oshodhara.
    I hope you can find your answer from our Sadguru Osho Shailendra as follow:

    Some of Osho’s old disciples say that whatever has to be done will be done by Osho himself. We are just going on doing sakriya Dhyan—Dynamic meditation. All responsibility lies with Osho. Because of this, they have a pessimistic approach towards the role of other living Masters. Would you like to elaborate on this matter?

    Answer:

    Ma Atma Leena, if I say anything, what would happen?

    They will not listen to me. Anyway, they have a fixed negative idea about living Masters. Therefore, my saying would not do any good.

    I will read out Osho’s statements:

    I want to present from the first lecture given by Osho on Kahe Kabir Deewana—Kabir says, “jab mein bhoola re bhai, mere sadguru jugat lakhaaie.”

    While explaining this Osho says, “the technique given by the Master is jugat”. But only techniques will not work. A living Master is required. Techniques are available. Patanjali’s Yog sutra is available. All techniques are given in that. But if you read a book and get started then the techniques would be just like the clock. You might follow them mechanically but still you would be doing them in unawareness, like a sleeping man. Kabir says remember. And you will memorize, count the beads but still you would be doing that.
    All religions die. The day a Living Master dies that same day the religion also dies. Sikhism was alive until its 10 gurus were alive. The day Guru Govind Singh decided that the Holy Scripture- Guru Granth would be the next guru; there will be no other living guru, that very same day Sikhism died.
    When the 10 gurus of Sikh religion were alive, it was a different story. Then this instrument was not there, a living person was there.

    Until Jaina had 24 Tirthankars, Jainism was a living stream. Then Jainas decided that there could not be more than 24 Tirthankars. They shut the doors after Mahavir. Jainism died. Today Jain religion is a merely a dead body.

    With Mohammed, Islam was alive. With Quran it is dead. Though Quran is book of Mohammed but that is of no consequence.

    I am standing with a wand and you are asleep. I wake you with the wand. The wand does not wake you, I do. Your eyes open. You do not see me, you can see the wand/ baton touching you. With gratitude and obligation, you catch hold of the wand because it awoke you. Now you will pass on this wand to your child and say,” keep it safely, it awakens you very well “.

    However, the jugat (technique) has died. The wand was not waking you. Behind that wand there were live hands. How will the stick wake you, what can it do on its own?

    All scriptures turn into something like the wand. All techniques become like wand/ baton. You can offer prayers to it and remember it. And it is not that they have never awakened people. Definitely, they (people) were awakened. But there was a living hand behind them, there was some Nanak behind them, the vibration that was there was not of the stick. It was of the Living hand. The life that was being impacted in that wand was that of Nanak’s. Now you go on fulfilling the five obligations (5 K’s- kesh, kangha, kada, kirpal, kaccha obligatory for all Sikhs to have). Do all the rituals, do whatever you want to do. But all the rituals are like wands/ baton, now they are of no use anymore. Jugat (technique) are always alive, when there is a living hand behind it.

    I am still here. You can make use of my wand. After I am gone you can keep on doing Dynamic meditation and nothing will happen. I know this for sure that you keep on doing it after I am dead. There is no doubt about it because it is your age-old habit. Why does this happen? This happens because you are not afraid of the techniques. Your sleep does not have fear therefore you agree to follow the technique. But you have fear of the Living Master; you have a threat. For how long would you be able to sleep in front/presence of the Living Master? You will have to let go of your sleep. The Master will make you let go of your sleep; he will awaken you.
    pls continue herehttps://www.oshodhara.org.in/LitArticleReader.aspx?ID=18Reply to Namrata
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    Post #8Robin Wooldridge (West Midlands) wrote20 hours ago
    Beloved Amrito
    Is the fruit of your spiritual search simply anger and hatred towards those who would seek an alternative path to yours? If you’ve spent any time with Osho, such anger would not be in your heart. So what if people are following a different path to yours? So what if you want to ignore Osho’s insistence that you must find a living master? So you’ve learned a little about Oshodhara and it’s not for you – why be bothered with it then? If Osho is your path then why spend any energy on other groups who follow a different line? Sannays has always been a tree with many branches; Veeresh and the Humaniversity; Somendra (upto1985) and his energy work; Dheeraj and Tibetan Pulse Healing; Sarita and Tantra School, need I go on? Perhaps you are new to Osho. Perhaps you need to meditate to find out the cause of your anger. Who knows? REad what you’ve written and see if you can find insight into its origin, then you may start to understand. loveReply to Robin
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    Post #9 Amrito
    13 hours ago
    Beloved Friends,

    Thank for your wonderful responses. I apoligize if I was completely politically incorrect. I like to be open and transparent, and non-hypocritical. These are some traits I love about Osho as well, and have learned.

    So here I go:

    1) Sunil

    I respect your experiences in Osho Dhara, and don’t doubt that you are genuine. Ofcourse for a genuine seeker who trust and trusts, Osho’s energy will definately be present. Even within the grasp of priests in some of the most world’s most fanatical religions, there are people who recieve great spiritual experiences and feel the presence of the divine.

    I have met Swami Osho Maitraya in Brampton, Ontario. I was ready to ask him my questions and concerns publicly and openly. He avoided me pretty well. I did get a chance to meet him privately and bring these subjects up about claiming enlightenment as if it were a joke. He responded and agreed that the website with so-called enlightened ones was some sort of device, and not real.

    He also said enlightenment could be taken back, and not permanent.

    Wishy Washy.

    A nice guy though.

    By the way, I havent said Osho Dynamic Meditation is the most important meditation. I simply said, why make up stories that it ruptures your stomach? Its a nice meditation though.

    2) Pradyumna Pandey

    Spritual techniques or spiritual technology is being offered by many “Meditation” Corporations these days. They mix and match, dress it up and offer a nice meditative salad. But the problem is not whether I enjoy these techniques or not, its whether they will be harmful or not.

    Osho has spoken about people who can get into grave spiritual danger if they start manipulating spiritual techniques. In fact, he said spiritual technology is a greater threat than drugs, because it can affect a person for lives and lives.

    But I don’t doubt your trust or your spiritual seeking. Thats none of my business. I doubt these remixes of Osho’s meditations and what not, and it being represented as something Osho approved of.

    3) Namrata

    I understand the importance of living masters. And I’m not afraid to question these three about their claims of being “Masters”. Infact many Osho desciples questioned Osho tons before they were with him. Something just clicked and the debate dissappeared. But I respect myself enough to be skeptical.

    See how Osho Shailendra answered the question though?

    “Osho Said”….

    Its priestly, popely, scripturish…

    And the fact is Osho said alot of things, but no dogma, belief or argument can be made about that which has spoken about.

    They are beautiful contradictions.

    I recently listened to an Osho discourse where “OSHO said”, his energy and guidance will be available after he leaves his body. I also heard an Osho lecture where he said the master-desciple relationship is insignifcant.

    But beyond the words is silence, witnessing and meditation. The Master Key itself.

    4) Robin

    Hehe..What makes you think I’m so serious. Just because I’m politically incorrect and frank? Perhaps you think I am rude, I will concede to this.

    However, just because I openly criticize these three gurus need not mean that I “hate” them.

    Have you heard Osho’s discourses when he calls Jesus a crackpot and says Mother Teresa should jump into a lake?

    Do these statements make Osho suddenly unenlightened and the fruit of his spiritual search “anger”.

    These are human qualities, and I don’t regret that I am human. They are part of the leela of who I am. I won’t brainwash myself into compassion and love with teddy bears and flowers.

    Life is real, life is raw and life is beautiful.

    Why I commented here? I’m here to save no-one nor cause alarm.

    Its my opinion, this is facebook, this group is open, it has photos of my beloved master around. I can comment and be opinionated.

    Don’t have such a cult mentality, its what got Sheela into trouble. If i’m wrong I’m wrong.

    Let’s not shut me out to quick.

    Love,
    Amrito

  206. oshobob says:

    good comments from everyone.

  207. Namrata Pandey says:

    As you know very well about the importance of living masters.Somany times Osho himself says,’Without a living Master no method,…..Master’s presence that is the real thing…..Being with a living Master is what works;it is not the method……On the presence of those who have become awakened…..’you can continue this -Tao:The Golden Gate.vol.1,#2.

    Don`t make a fiction .pls understand that ,”Oshodhara is not a new faction in the world of Osho or the world of spiritualism. It is like Ganges in which almost all the Himalayan Rivers find their entry. Oshodhara knows no faction. It represents aspirations of all the seekers of all the religions, of all the traditions, all over the world. Although, like Ganges, it emerges from Himalayas of Osho, it is of all the seekers, it is for all the seekers and it is by all the seekers of the world.”

  208. oshobob says:

    Just read last night Swami Pari’s online book “Life of Osho” — free to view in pdf format on the web. Authors it under the pen name of “Sam”. As one of the founders of Sannyasnews here, who has just recently “died”, I reccommend it highly to anyone here posting comments — quite an insightful book, packed with pithy perceptions, personal experiences, and even extensive overviews of Osho’s active meditations, from the vantage point of “chakra” connections. A search engine query will take you to the book quicker than you can say “live, love, and laugh.”

  209. Vishakha says:

    Thanks Horatio,

    You think if I passed your test, that’s ok with me, if I didn’t pass it, it is ok with me too. But I am not concerned about you or anyone calling me anything. The truth is I need Osho in my life to show me the light. I am in total darkness, struggling, so call me ‘idiot’, ‘stupid’, ‘ignorant’, that’s a reality right now for me. I am trying to hold HIS hands and trying to walk along with HIM. I know NOTHING of those depths, heights Osho talks about…But the ultimate truth is contagious..I started glowing with Osho’s light a little bit…like millions of others..

    Sorry, Horatio you can’t see that glow in this forum..ha ha..

  210. Anthony Thompson says:

    Frank?!!!!!!

  211. Vishakha says:

    Hi Kranti,

    I agree with you that whether we would be speaking or not, once we fully awake. But the fruit has to ripen..we all are on our way to our maturity..we go thru struggles, entangled in chaos, get ripened, then when our time will come..the fruit ripens..then ABSOLUTE SILENCE. But Osho and other enlightened ones have to come to our level to communicate with us. Osho mentioned thousand times that HE is talking to us out of HIS love and compassion and we do not understand the language of ‘silence’ and he has no choice except to use words. As far as I know, Osho gave example of rain cloud, it feels heavy, and feels uneasy until it pours. I think, if we awake, we definitely will be talking, pouring or sharing. Actually, we will be capable of sharing even more..Look at Osho’s life, how he lived with such intensity and totality..HE has so much to give and our hands are too tiny to collect what He is showering to us.

    Kranti, this is just my assumption, I don’t know if it has truth in it or not. But said few words out of love with Master, that’s all.

    I respect everybody in this forum and I know they are on their journey to the unknown. Their curiousity, and quest is nothing but trying to find the ultimate truth..Sorry if I offended you guys in anyway.
    Good luck !

    With HIS blessings and love
    Vishakha

  212. Kranti says:

    Question for all of you guys?

    Please dont make fun of me.

    Did Tarzon have thoughts?

  213. Horatio says:

    Vishakha,
    more humor… lighten up man…. make the ha ha real….. I’m here to have fun. mostly…. there’s glow here there everywhere…… whether its raining or dry humor….. if you want out of the pit pay heed to the self-righteousness within ….. then you will truly fing the glow …..

  214. oshobob says:

    Sure Horatio, ‘Tarzon’ had thoughts.

    He took the “Who Am I?” group in Poona 1, caught the next red-eye flight back to his jungle turf, found his girlfriend, and told her, “Me Tarzan, You Jane.”

    So you see, he knew himself, knew his friend Jane, and knew how to speak a little English. But he had to think first, that’s for sure.

    Actually, Tarzan was at one time a Zen master — Osho has a little known set of discourses on him, “Tarzan: Straight to the Point of Banana Peels”. You have to find it underground on the web — download it as a BitTorrent file, I think.

    Cheers

  215. oshobob says:

    Sorry, I was replying above to ‘Kranti’s’ question on ‘Tarzon’. I got him mixed up with ‘Horatio’. All these people here on this forum who I’ve never actually met as separate entities in person… it’s getting a little confusing. But as Buddha said, “Go on, go on…”

  216. Vishakha says:

    Horatio,

    You crack me up big time ! Loved your sense of humor !

  217. Vishakha says:

    Oshobob,

    First of all your name is so funny. Reminds me of Bob the Tomato from Veggie Tales(kids’ show). I am sure you don’t look like one, I also never met you in person. Don’t get confused..I am sailing on the same boat as you do.. lol

  218. Kranti says:

    Did Tarzon really have thoughts?

    How can one have thoughts if he doesnt know any language and words?

    That means he didnt have ‘ ME’ inside him torturing all the time..challenging him to climb a bigger tree or beat a monkey to prove his worth etc

    Lucky Guy.

  219. Horatio says:

    Kranti, I just read an article where animals such as chimpanzees and dogs have been shown to have remorse… a form of thinking… and delving into the past…. and they can also anticipate future situations….
    so there’s no use trying to forget how to speak…..

    humor aside… has anyone ever seen anthony with his shirt off?

    about osho bob’s confusion as to who’s who….. perhaps we can make a directory….. and so I’ve been thinking about my possible osho related qualifications and was wondering if my current girlfriend being sanyassin and having also been with a half dozen others counts?

  220. oshobob says:

    Don’t be thinking Tarzan was so lucky, Kranti.

    Sure, he didn’t have the burden of language, but then he had to hire an agent — Solomon “Solly” Sapperstein — to be his man in Hollywood to hammer out the contracts with the movie studios. And Solly — for his own personal benefit most likely — put in a ‘trailer clause’ extension in the final papers, which forced Tarzan into a 10 movie promise bind, basically ruining the best years of his life that he could have lived naturally as a “primitive” in the jungles.

    See, so he really wasn’t such a “Lucky Guy” after all.

  221. oshobob says:

    Horatio,
    I definitely think your history of many girlfriends counts as a qualification — what kind of qualification, I’m not exactly sure. But, we’ll have to start calling you Horatio, the Alaskan Bull Moose, instead of thinking of you as just Gunga Din, the water boy.

    And not only has no one here probably seen Anthony with his shirt off — I don’t know anyone who’s ever SEEN Anthony, period.

  222. Horatio says:

    Osho Bob, I hestiate to say between us I could never quite live ‘up” to all that but it does create some useful imagery….

    so no anthony then,,, could it have been that Anthony was a growth on Frank’s stomache…. that doesn’t seem to fit quite…. as well… hmmm…..

  223. Anthony Thompson says:

    FRAAAAAAANKKK!!
    please come back!

  224. Horatio says:

    Is it something one of us said? why doesn’t he speak to us? are we unworthy? what is asked of us? Maybe a new post? have i offended you in anyway? can you relay this to him anthony please?

  225. Kranti says:

    Horatio

    If half dozen others counts cannot drive you towards enlightenment , no master can .Whether he uses ZEN or whatever it is doesnt matter. You are too hard a nut to crack to pour the bliss inside.

  226. shantam prem says:

    My Beloveds,

    The true master creates discontent in you … and such a discontent that nothing of this world can ever satisfy it. He creates such a longing in you, that unless you attain to the ultimate you will remain aflame, afire. He creates pain in your heart, he creates anguish … because life is slipping by every moment, and each moment gone is gone forever, and you have not attained to God yet, and one day is over.

    He creates such a deep longing in you, such pain in the heart! He creates tears in your eyes, because only through such divine discontent will you move, will you take the quantum leap, the ultimate jump into the unknown. It is only through such divine discontent that you will gather together all your energies, and you will risk, and you will go on the ultimate adventure of finding who you are.

    Follow your own nature. Your nature is consciousness.
    Osho

    PS_ what so ever people may say about Osho; the life and beauty of His words still can melt the stones..

  227. Kranti says:

    shantam prem

    Thank you for sharing those beautiful words from Osho.

    With your permission i want to post this quote in another forum where i need to cummunicate something similar.. Thanks you

  228. Vishakha says:

    Shantam Prem,

    My heartfelt thanks to you for sharing such beautiful words from Osho.

    Love,
    Vishakha

  229. Horatio says:

    Kranti, not sure where your coming from. My inner experience is pure bliss and ever opening further. Perhaps my posting will show you awaken people can have fun too. but once you declare yourself awakened or enlightened others will back off and say oh, this one must be arrogant and so forth (and this is too often true).. you were wondering whether if when you awaken you would still post, well why not, but who’s to say anyone here would want to listen to you ……… especially if you give advice…. now that i am out of the closet who will want to respond to what i say? it won’t be so fun to post here anymore.. meanwhile ,,,, I enjoy life and its mystery… i do not go around feeling I have to talk about it….though i do share meditation with a few friends….. this forum has been fun in that people here do not even know me…

    What i’d like to share with all is that I have benefited from being in the presence of other enlightened beings….. a long list… and when I finally popped off I was at a retreat witha teacher who spent years with osho and claims him as his master although he spent time with other teachers…. but ultimately for me it was about spending years watching my own inner dialog and feelings and developing awareness and acceptance,,,,,, guess I’m done posting otherwise the stones will fly… peace and love to you all, you are all beautiful…..

  230. Kranti says:

    After a tired days work.. where else you can tune to than Oshodhara

    https://www.oshodhara.org.in/NewsReader.aspx?NewsID=10

    Such complex speech.. couldnt understand a damn thing.. What this Bhakti , Sadbhava etc has got to do with Osho..

    looks like they copy pasted Osho’s name but wrongly copy pasted content from some other religion..

    such a hotch potch

    What is happening there is summed up in their own words here.. Exact reproduction..

    ” During our earlier celebrations it was felt that singers and dancers invited from outside do entertain us but it did not connect us to the celebrations, something remained amiss. It was considered to let our own people show their talent. The program of Utsav Pragya was designed to give opportunity to practice for three days and put up a performance thereafter. The first performance that has come today makes me to say with pleasure that this celebration is ‘of Oshodhara’, ‘from Oshodhara’ and ‘by Oshodhara’. ”

    Dear O Dear..

  231. Kranti says:

    Horatio

    Blissfully in agreement with you.. Even if you are with a master he only provokes you to do what you said here..

    ” but ultimately for me it was about spending years watching my own inner dialog and feelings and developing awareness and acceptance,,,,,, ”

    Love
    Kranti

  232. frank says:

    50 franc says….

    listen up to the word from the streetless street
    if you wanna have some bitches fallin at your feet
    dont worry bout ol` osho an him bein dead
    just put a tea cosy on your headless head
    call yourself an osho,just because you cud
    and take a walk with me down the buddha `hood
    dont worry bout how you gonna pay the rent
    flunkies do it for you when you reach enlightenment
    take it real slow and work on your silly walk
    you wont even need no lawyers down in new york
    bein an enlightened master is a lot like sellin drugs
    dont need no qualfications,just need a lotta mugs
    it dont make no difference if you true or you lyin
    folks out there just wanna get enlightened or die tryin`…

  233. oshobob says:

    Horatio!
    Enlightened, you say?!
    Holy Jeezus! I never knew.
    It’s like Clark Kent, the mild-mannered reporter turning into Superman before our eyes!
    And now you’re going to just saunter back into the Alaskan tundra, like…”bye-bye, has been good to know ya, see you all later, maybe”….hey dude,not so fast there…
    Watch out ladies, the Moose is Loose!

  234. shantam prem says:

    Hi Kranti,
    You have watched Oshodhara video after a hard day’s work. I think it must be as relaxing as one watchs stand up comedy or sometime a bit of Porno.
    Shailnadra (one of ten or eleven siblings of Osho) with his beloved wife and the group has a legitimate right to propagate and promote their ideology and to built a spiritual highway of enlightenment, but to cut and paste Osho in a selective and fragmanted way is a pure butchery.The resort managers are also doing the same, propagating the half truth, using only the selective words of Osho, but atleast they are using the sophisiticated knives and have no intention to play gurus, like these three Mahatma monkeys.

    PS- for a personalised quotation of Osho to be delivered at the email address everyday, please check,
    http://www.mysamasati.com

    My loving regards to the creators of above website.

  235. oshobob says:

    so now Tony, you stop yo cryin’
    home-boy frankie’s back, dyin’ to be tryin’….

  236. Kranti says:

    Shantam prem

    There is a limit to copy paste

    My humble request to you

    Please dont bring in Osho resort pune even for fun while talking about these jokers..have never seen such atrocious copy paste..including Osho meditations.

    There was a meditation created by Priya called Leela Meditation ..See the link

    https://www.oshodhara.org.in/LitArticleReader.aspx?ID=32

    Dont pat yourself for guessing how she created this meditation..

    My feeling is they are deliberately doing to puch the buttons of every one who loves Osho …

    Damn.. Just today morning i almost got enlightened..
    After seeing their site fully and reading their mission statement i am struggling to be in control..Going crazy

  237. Kranti says:

    Shantam prem

    Thank you very much for the link

    http://www.mysamasati.com

    Very beautiful site..

    With Love
    Kranti

  238. shantam prem says:

    Thanks Kranti,
    I will remember not to mention our fellow travelers at 17, koregaon Park, Pune with these these two guys and a girl.
    For sure these people are getting their best out of their pound of flash. I cannot imagine any disciple doing such an act with their master. These people should be taken to court for distorting Osho and His vision.
    While looking at the link mentioned above by Kranti, i came across another link, where Shailandra is lecturing at Pune. People who are not familiar with the holy family, can look at the group photo. One of the brother with his wife is sitting in the front row. May be he has taken his shoes off out of reverence!
    And Mr. Shailandra Jain is introduced not just Osho Shailandra but “Sadguru Osho Shailandra Ji.” It is like an idiot who is wearing not just the shoes but the shoe box also.
    Few followers of Shailandra who are in this discussion area will laugh at my comment with contempt and a usual Hindi proverb which means,” the spit falls back, those who spit on the moon.”
    But i am sure in my heart of the heart that even the parents of Shailandra will be feeling ashamed as long as this guy does not open his company with his own brand name. Let it be, say “Priyadhara” and we the unknown seekers of Osho will ignore them like other thousands of sects spread all around India specially Punjab, the land of gurus and mystics!

  239. oshobob says:

    btw, frank, that was just a great rap parody of 50 Cent — i loved it.
    and how about the David Carradine death in Bangkok — our Shaolin monk ends up eerily the same way that Thomas Merton did 40 years ago. Dead, with a lot of very strange circumstances involved. They say “Death Comes Dancing”, but i don’t think it did for these two. Looks like they have a different style of dancing in Thailand.

  240. frank says:

    oshobob,
    yes,getting mentioned on sannyas news can have strange results!

    well,its not called bangkok for nothing,i suppose.

  241. frank says:

    the testosterone-fuelled atmosphere of guru bashing,or should i call it master-baiting has really got to fever pitch here on sannyasnews.
    and rightly so.enlightenment is a man`s game,no question.not for the faint-hearted.
    so i suggest that all the parties involved settle these matters like real men – in the boxing ring.

    personally,i would back swami “the gurkha” arun to KO osho”the shyster” shailendra in two rounds max.
    the osho guy who looks like meher baba might take arun a little longer,say seven or eight rounds,but against osho “kali” priya, i just couldn`t see the gurkha coming through.i wonder if he could deal with a woman eyeball to eyeball and i just dont think he could deal with the back-chat and that 8-glove left hook for long.
    rajneesh`s footwork isnt bad and his eyeballing is pretty intense,but he`s too slow and i cant see him packing a big enough punch to worry the heavweights like arun or the teacosa nostra.however, i would back him against some of the lightweights like eckhart tolle or adyashanti or andrew cohen,altho i`ve heard that cohen can get pretty vicious when he`s on the ropes.

    a rematch between rajneesh and any of the members of the inner circle would be worth watching.
    i`d back rajneesh to take out amrito”the doc”andrews. likewise, jayesh “paddy” o`byrne. all those years in india,on the booze-they probably cant control what happens in the ring like they used to……

  242. Anthony Thompson says:

    now we are talking!

  243. amrito says:

    FRANK YOUR RAP WAS ABSOLULET AMAZING!!!

    HAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!

    By the way..did you know that I rapped?

    And seriously I do… Here is my website:

    http://www.soundclick.com/bokamystiks

    Here is a song of mine featuring Osho:

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=31191&songID=1924510

    But you’re rap…Frank, you seem to be generationless..down with all the current pop-cultures, kudos!!

  244. amrito says:

    im being moderated!!

  245. Vishakha says:

    Thanks Kranti for the link of Osho Priya’s Leela meditation technique. I couldn’t believe it, it sounded more like some kind of discpline. The first part of meditation was chanting mantra ‘OM’.. ha ha..I hope that mantra is helping them. Those 3 guys looks like comedians.

  246. Vishakha says:

    Great writing, Frank. You are genius. No body can beat you. I truly admire your sense of humor.

  247. Kranti says:

    Not only that Vishaka

    see the order of the meditation

    OM – taken from hindu religion to please all hindus

    Laughter – Copied from Mystic rose to please Osho half lovers

    Crying-Copied from Mystic rose to please Osho half lovers

    Witnessing – Any osho meditation
    Celebration -Any osho meditation

    If they stop here it will more or less look like Osho meditations so .. now comes the originality

    Relaxation
    Self remembrance
    Gratitude

    Can you see the point?

    After doing the meditation and witnessing and celebrating you start relaxing and practicing self remembrance..

    Were they doing the first four steps absend mindeldy..

    Common Shailendra .. Give Osho a Break

  248. Kranti says:

    I am really sorry guys.. I know i am overdoing this Oshdhara bashing ..forgive me..My love for Osho is too big for me to tolerate the way they are insulting Osho

    I forgot to add

    My understanding of Osho meditation is

    Witnessing is about being aware

    Celebration is out of gratitude

    how come we disconnect self remembrance and Gratitude from witnessing and celebration and practice separately

    they are not chemical components of a flower to be seperated like that…

    No… Priya is certainly taking revenge for for some family feud.. She couldnt have digested Osho having more fame and power than Shailendra..It must be a typical house wife revenge..this whole oshodhara stuff

  249. frank says:

    the more i think about it,the more mouthwatering a bout between slowhand rajneesh and the amrito”the doc” andrews could be.
    for a start,its a classic grudge match,with rajneesh thirsting for revenge after havin been unceremoniously dumped out of the ring by the doc way back in `89.
    so it is the brash young contender,stripped to the waist,talking a good game, versus the wily old campaigner whose legs may be going(the gin?) but is still a tactical genius.
    dont forget,the doc is the man who in his long defence of the heavyweight osho disciple of all time crown,has seen off the likes of iron mike “psycho” barnett, saint paul “ragin paul” teertha-lowe,considered by many to have been the greatest contender of them all,huge “the stud” milne…and of couse sheela “poisonjabs” silverdollar,unquestionably,the dirtiest fighter of all time.
    and who can forget that bout where,with a poison arrow stuck in his ass the doc fought vaiiantly on against theodds to overcome jane “nightnurse” mengele?
    to be fair,the doc has gone down a few times and been KO`d more than once,but sources close to him claim this was just the bombay gin….
    if the decision goes to points,rajneesh could be in trouble-i doubt that his network of lawyers and guys with bungs in brown envelopes would be any match for the doc`s people……

  250. Kranti says:

    I couldnt take it any longer.. I posted this in Oshodhara blog

    ” 1. Kranti – June 9, 2009
    Hey Common! Oshodhara Guys

    Give OSHO a break…

    Osho doesn’t deserve such a bad treatment for the love and compassion he showed to you all

    Such ungrateful treatement to Osho

    Even with all that Love & compassion he would have got frustrated with the jokes which are going on..

    No one in the history has done this much damage to any master..

    If you guys are interested in spreading spirituality and have respect for all masters then keep a common name and run the center

    Don’t spoil Osho’s name like this …

    Osho said ‘ You are doing the maximum damage when you corrupt someone’s meditation growth ‘ That exactly you guys are doing. Dragging Osho’a name to ridiculous levels with all the crazy things

    Whatever Osho stood for creating Neo-Sannyas , you guys are reversing that process

    You are sending out wrong message about Osho to millions of people by running a circus like this

    All kinds disciplines & modified meditations .. Osho wouldn’t have accepted even one thing which you are doing

    when osho was in body everyone knew who was the real master.. there were no games

    You guys have made it a family drama..

    Trivir and all that kind of stuff

    What Sheela has done is nothing compared to what you guys are doing.

    what people like Chris Calder wrote is nothing compared to what you guys are doing.

    They all had backbone..They went against Osho..atleats they didnt stab Osho & His vision from back expecially after he left body

    Anyone who lived with Osho will not even have slightest inciliantion to become a master and misuse his name

    Being in love with Osho itself is enough.. so fulfilling

    I am in tremendous love with Osho and cannot digest the damage that is happening to Osho . To me Osho was the most beautiful human being to have walked on earth and anyone who is doing such damage must be unaware to the lowest possible extent.

    If you are really interested in osho you should be spreading His message not your own..

    Whatever you guys are doing , need not be at the cost of Osho.. but that exactly what you guys are doing

    Don’t try to justify how your meditations and programs are benefitting people and all that stuff..

    The issue is not that.. You can do the same thing in any other name.. Why it just can’t be Shailendra Meditations

    Do you have one SANE reason why you need to drag Osho’s name to all the things you are doing?

    It looks like a family revenge than anything else

    I am at extreme pain to see all the damage you guys are doing “

  251. Thank U Osho*!
    Now an Immitation should not bring taughts(tots!)of unkindness in the mind of the seeker next door,i.e,how is ithis going on?! Immitation of Christ (passion!) of Conscioyusness,is not an ungreatfulness but when one is human with our weeknesses ,I.E,strong libido,cannot have a lay anymore one feels (ego!)hurt bro,perhaps untill compassion arrives immitation of Osho´s likeness even if Osho didn´t teach immmitation untill we ….real thing immmmmiiiiiiitttaatttion!

  252. Anthony Thompson says:

    The amazing part of this whole story, at least for me, is the people who buy into this whole carbon copy style, weather it is this rajneesh fellow of the Dhara circus of meher baba impersonator, osho impersonator and the meditative creative priya. It is the people who go to see these guys and do not see anything strange in their copied style. At least Tyohar is imitating Jesus and the guy lived too long ago for us to remember… if he ever lived.
    Anyway, if you listen to any of these guys speak they look like a satire of an Indian guru made by the American TV show “Saturday Night Live”.
    This is my question…, are people so stupid?
    anthony

  253. Kranti says:

    You hit the nail on the head Anthony

    It seems people ARE so stupid

    See all the replies to Amrito when he took the debate to Oshodhara

    They are just not getting the point

    No one is saying they shouldnt berunning mediatattion centers or their programs are not beneficial to anyone etc

    There is absolutely no need to drag Osho into all of these jokes

    Osho would have never thought His name will be subjected to such misuse..

    I dont think in the whole history this has happened

    Imagine people walking with names like Buddha George, Buddha Ram , Buddha Shailendra , Gurdieff Mohan , Gurdieff George..

    Complete mess

    They have converted Osho ‘s name as a meaningless Surname

  254. Vishakha says:

    Kranti,

    I totally agree with you. I read your above posts. They are using ‘Osho’s name to attract people. If they use ‘Shailendra’, who will bother even to look them. He doesn’t have any grace, any aura like Osho. He could deceive newcomers, but whoever has known Osho wouldn’t be even moved, forget about them impressing me, for lifelong. I watched how they did ‘celebration’, looks like they hired some dancers, their dance so was pathetic, neither I see any Osho’s energy showering them nor I saw the presence of any kind of celebration happening to them. They are deluding themselves, basically it is a circus.

    Good thing that you posted them such comments, people who are into Oshodhara will think twice and judge their credibility.

  255. Vishakha says:

    Thanks Shantam Prem for the
    link

    http://www.mysamasati.com

  256. oshobob says:

    An appropos commentary on all this “circus” phenomenon going on, and “fake” oshos, is a chapter in Swami Paritosh’s book “Life of Osho” (by ‘Sam’), titled “Osho as Charlatan”.

    As I read it this last weekend online, it struck me as quite a unique and insightful slant on Osho’s time in America — the Ranch days. Basically, Pari’s view was that Osho was deliberately creating a circus atmosphere — the new colorful clothes, the Rolls Royces, the battles with the locals in Antelope, the ‘Us v. Them’ incidents with the US government, the media involvement, the Sheela saga. All devised to turn upside down and inside out the whole concept of traditional Religion — an attempt to completely block the tendency of his own people to create another system of a “This is It!” organisation.

    Maybe the current Osho caricatures you are all discussing here, have something of the “caricature of a caricature” aspect to them — more than you may care to admit to. Maybe the copies are simply copies of something you may think is so real, but was actually a highly designed production in the first place.

    Our “Osho”, besides being a spiritual master, was also a master actor, when he deemed it necessary.

  257. Anthony Thompson says:

    He called himself during the Ranch: “the greatest showman”.
    I mean, honestly, who would pick as your master a guy who dresses like drag queen from a sci-fi movie, owns 93 rolls Royce, declares to be the guru of the rich, creates an religion, then denounces it, and is constantly telling everybody they are idiots.
    If what he wanted was to attract followers,that would have had the absolute contrary effect.
    He was onto something else, if you ask me. he was making a parody of himself, of the whole guru-trip, of the messiah trip.
    Now these guys in Osho Dhara are copying the parody… now this is simply hilarious. and all that with the charisma of a tuna sandwich

  258. Kranti says:

    If i am not wrong , i remember reading Osho in some discourse where He stated that he is deliberately doing things to distort his image so badly that no one one create a religion around Him. Am i right?

    ” charisma of a tuna sandwich ” – Superb. I liked it.

  259. shantam prem says:

    Bravo Kranti
    for bringing your voice to the Dhara people, In Pune i used to call them MutraDhara out of desperation to see their shameless and unprecedented act(Mutra means Peeppe)
    so a “OSho hug “for you near the Buddha hall!!

  260. Kranti says:

    A little more on What the group is capabale of Delivering before i take a breather

    Osho Shailendra’s Satsang at Pune:

    ” Sadguru Osho Shailendra ji delivered satsang in Maulana Azad Hall, Koregaon park, Pune, Maharashtra on 29th april on the subject – Spriitual growth through knowledge of Past lives whereby He explained the importance of every seeker having knowledge of their own past life and this would enhance their speed in Spirituality and help them grow.The Satsang inspired and motivated and awakened a thirst in heart of many to have a plunge into one’s own past life for one’s own betterment….. ”

    Now if all those guys look lost you know what is the reason..

    Trying to live one life here itself is such a challenge.. These guys are pushing people to relive all the past lives

    Osho left us early.. He should have stayed in his body for atleast 10 more years and ensured these jokers would not have fun over him.

  261. Anthony Thompson says:

    In a way it is understandable. Imagine poor shailendra seing his brother being the “hot shot” all the time, turning people on, having a fantastic life, writing his name in history… and you are the younger brother, having nothing, except some genes in common with the honcho guy.

    The brother is dead, you grow the beard, get the wife to start a business, get a sponsor with money who looks like meher baba and is interested in getting something money can not buy: enlightenment. and the three of them set up to cash in the family business…but on a different branch.
    as I said , it is understandable, the other brothers were just gate guards and the one who got further did some rebalancing sessions.
    If i was shailendra, I would have also gone for the whole cake. although, I doubt that I would have done it with a bright yellow synthetic wool ha. Probably I would have gone for an acharya look like the the slow walker rajneesh.

    I mean, imagine existence blessed you to have Osho as a brother, and you end up sitting in a stool all day asking passing byres “gate pass please?”… come one none can stand that.
    anthony

  262. Kranti says:

    And add a WIFE to provoke & insult you… Support you in brand building .. You are on your way to impersonate anyone.. You could even impersonate multiple masters..

  263. frank says:

    yo amrito,
    respec` bro……
    big bhag-daddy gangsta wuz a rapper too…

    drivin by in his bullet proof rolls
    loads of bling bling
    crazy shiny clothes
    ak armed dudes in front and behind him
    bitches throwin themselves at his feet
    homies hangin on his every word
    puffin` the gas
    dissing the govt
    dissing rival gangs and neighbours….

    wicked!!

  264. oshobob says:

    50 cent, 50 franc,
    50 bob, it’s coin in the bank
    oshos here, oshos dare,
    oshos happenin’ everywhere
    he’s got the gags, that be home-boy frankie
    got one eye lookin’ out for the townsville yankee
    rap it up, rap it down
    bashin the trivurti like they be clowns
    cool to call yourself a buddha, it was so phukin’ fine
    but call yourself osho and they’ll stomp ya online
    everytime,
    everytime,
    everytime….

  265. Anthony Thompson says:

    Now i can not compete with this. Haikus i can manage… but Rap.!? I was already told not to tell jokes. I am sixty something…I am lost
    however,…

    I still have the image in my mind
    of shailandra´s wife
    nagging him fa´ nat being like his bro´
    Him getting a yellow cap
    …I am too bad for rap!

  266. shantam prem says:

    Swami Antony Thompson,
    you know quite well about the siblings of Osho, it shows you were long time in Pune to see one sitting whole life at the main gate and the other doing rebalancing and working in Hindi publications.
    I am curious about your sannyas name and basically i wish to see the faces of all these passionate people in this discussion area. Please, share your facebook identity, anyway we are “friends” now.
    The wife of the Late gate keeper brother, Shashi Ma, when i have met her last time on the gates, i enquired about Shailadra, her brother in law. By pointing towards the Samadhi she said ,” I have told him directly, come and meditate at Osho’s samadhi. Stop these childish games.” After a pause she said again,” But he is not gong to listen anyone. stubborn he is”

  267. oshobob says:

    the professor speaks, the professor raps
    got a Phd in the color of yo caps
    hai-Kul my kool, shootin craps
    shorty’s goin home,
    no more schoolyard traps…

  268. Anthony Thompson says:

    Shantam. i´m sorry i do not have a sannyas name. I am not a sannyasin. I have been ten times to pune in research and meditation… but not a sannyasin. I knew very well Vijay (osho´s brother) because he was my landlord. I rented a room from him in sukuani classic. and of ciurse I have sen the other one around ( I forgot his name)
    Thanks Oshobob…
    but I can not reply to that.
    This bro´ ain´t good for rap!
    anthony

  269. oshobob says:

    you allright mr. professor tony
    bettah than bein an osho phonie.

  270. Kranti says:

    Anthony

    Did you say you remember something like this has happned..

    ‘ I still have the image in my mind of shailandra´s wife
    nagging him fa´ nat being like his bro´

    Wow.. If it is true then we know for sure what is the foundation behind Oshodhara..

  271. frank says:

    hi oshobob,
    i agree with you that sam was onto something with his angle on osho`s circus.
    have you read “trickster guru” by alan watts.it`s googleable. some related ideas maybe.

    meanwhile,for me,the whole game of religion is up.
    its well and truly buggered.
    and good riddance.
    the three stooges are just another nail in the coffin.
    and i can say this from my own absolute authority

    yours sincerely

    Baba Freeload Frank Mc Osho
    PT Barnum Ramana Banana O`Gurdjieffmurti

  272. frank says:

    kranti.
    amazingly,i heard the conversation that started oshodhara with my own ears:

    priya:
    what you doing just sitting at the kitchentable in your underpantsdoing nothing. again?
    you think the rent will pay itself? and the chapatis will make themselves?and the dhal will cook tself?
    get your robe on this minute and get out there and pretend to do something pronto.
    30 years we`ve had to drive around on the same old bajaj scooter,while that brother of yours was swanning around in his rolls,and his lear jet.and what were you doing?an unpaid security guard
    you`re pathetic.
    if you come home one more time without some disciples,your dinner`s in the garbage,have you got that?
    and don`t give me that “i`m not enlightened yet” rubbish.just get that tea-cosy on your head and get out there—-NOW!

  273. Kranti says:

    You know Frank

    You are enourmously talented..

    But I need to be honest with you

    While on the one hand i really enjoy your posts , i also resist on the othe hand because you criticize Osho and categorize him among others who are not comparable..

    Jokes apart what is your true view about Osho?

  274. frank says:

    hi kranti,
    not an easy question.
    a bit like,how long is a piece of string?

    but,off the top of my head……

    krishnamurti talked about the stupidity of religion,religious trips,gurus,”spiritual authority” of all kinds…..
    people agreed and went home for tea.

    osho wrote,directed and starred in a circus production to prove it…..
    it was a strange play,a one-off…
    some still trying to understand it………..

    meanwhile,
    meditate
    celebrate
    and
    a bit of what you fancy………

  275. Andreas Roth says:

    Right frank!

    Kranti, the dedicated post you published on Oshodhara amused me quiet a bit! Somehow reminded me about my own writings here. You must have had quiet some fun writing it. But honestly, do you think, you can reason with these people? This mascerade and caned esoteric neo-pop tastelessness has been part of the game from the very beginning. You may have seen photographs of Osho in all kinds of “religious” costumes of various traditions, – if not, you may find these staged pictures on the internet. Osho also was acting. To provoke, to attract people from various traditions, to create publicity. Oshodhara more or less is just prolonging what Osho has done. Admittedly these poor commedians are underachieving Oshos standards by far and the only thing new about them is the grade of hysterical confusion, – obviously you have to be utterly tasteless, ignorant or even brutal to make it into the headlines these days. And it seems to be childish competition too. But basically it is the same mechnism. Like it or not, if you take a deeper look, you will see, that Osho is the origin of all of this and a constant reference in all of this. Actually this kind of insanity was an intrinsic part of Osho and “neo-sannyas” from the very beginning (the term neo-sannyas also is on the same line and by the way, there has been lots of talk about past lives by Osho and by sannyasins too, so that’s not new either). I wonder when they will start “banning” people, repeating the old stalinist style of punishment and repression. To think that this nonsens will ever end, is hope against all hopes, because the madness was installed in a “religious” way, so that you merely can’t get rid of it, except by leaving the club. If you stay within the club, you support it and it ain’t no use complaining. It’s your own responsibility.

    P.S. My english is not enough to rap, but “fashion” anyway looks stupid easily in a little while. Even Oshos hats are old hats by now. You don’t have to follow trends to be up to date. In fact the here and now is absolutely trendy, precisely because it’s not trendy.

  276. oshobob says:

    It seems that the best people to expose illusions are the ones that can create and perform them.

    A good case in point is Harry Houdini, an American Jew (birth name Eric Weiss), who rose to fame in the early 20th century doing amazing feats of magic-illusion-escape performances. His stage shows were absolutely phenomenal–like being handcuffed by Scotland Yard cops, put upside down in a glass closet of water, with ropes tied all over him, and then getting out of the whole jam, to the stunned applause of the shocked audience.

    Later in life, he dedicated himself to exposing the then popular ‘seance’ sessions of England and America, pre-New Age channelling groups of sorts, and had an ongoing battle on this subject with the well known British auther Arthur Conan Doyle, of “Sherlock Holmes” fame — who was a supporter of these groups.

    Anyway, bringing it back to the Osho story, or even Alan Watts as the ‘trickster guru’, similar parallels can be easily discerned — and in the case of the Great One himself, this looks like it was what happened — on a much bigger scale.

    And I don’t think we can relegate this to the past tense in speaking about it, because the ‘shock and awe’ of Osho reverberates to this day, even in died-in-the-wool skeptics — just look at this website, sannyasnews, as an example that the performance is not over.

    Maybe just an intermission break.

  277. Kranti says:

    Thanks for coming back Andreas.

    You and me may not see eye to eye when it comes to Osho.

    I respect your views.

    But to me Osho’s contribution to Conciouness / Pshychology / Deprogramming is too vast and we cant reduce it to a kind of ‘No show’ just because he used certain methods which were not acceptable to a rational mind.

    And the kind of people who were infront of him threw at him specifc challenges and to meet them he needed to use methods / communication styles which might not have been generally within the acceptable range.. Lot of things will never make sense for people if they look back now and try to make sense out of it

    Even Buddha contradicted himself about the existence of GOD to communicate something to the person in context. We cant say Buddha was lying or cheating innocent people

    Now the whole issue here is

    Whether we are on the same page when it comes to the existence of something called Awakening / Enlightenment

    If you say there is no such thing then there is no starting point for discussions

    If you say there is atleast a possibility for Awakening / enlightenment then how are we judging an awakened person ?

    You see what i am saying?

    It is like PRICE negotiation in marketing. You need room for discussion..

    I never Looked at Osho blindly or try to do Dynamic meditation whether it suited me or not.. I never worshipped him like a HINDU GOD

    He had answers to some of my questions about life and those answers were very honest and effective

    Very simple

    Close your eyes and ask yourself

    1.What is your identity
    2.Whether your personality is REAL?
    3.What about your MIND’s limitations.
    4.Do i need to do something to live a more deeper / intense life which will fulfill me?

    If my answer to all the above is YES then i need to start somewhere.. That starting point may be Osho or JK or even the guy at Oshodhara

    Atleast i have not come across any one sannyasin who was harned from learning something from Osho

    My resistance against Oshdhara is not because of what they are doing.. But because i feel there is no need to drag Osho’s name into all of the jokes they are playing…

  278. oshobob says:

    btw, Amrito, had a listen to your rap songs under your aka Boka Mystika — not bad, m’ man, not bad at all!

    how about making up a rap verse for us all on this sannyasnews thread?

    i know it looses a lot without the music behind it, but give it a shot, i bet you could lay down a good one…

    I’d like to see Arun do one live, when he comes to the States soon, that would be something to see…..!

  279. Anthony Thompson says:

    Andreas ´s back
    he likes to rap
    think osho´s the source
    he is and he´s not
    the greatest show man
    the big man, man
    took guru-trip for a ride
    his brother in the hood
    got tired and got a cap
    his wife is happy,
    meher baba is happy
    osho Dhara is crappy
    yea…

  280. oshobob says:

    outa sight TonyZ !!

    you did it cuz you cud !

  281. shantam prem says:

    This question i want to know from the ex sannyasin Andreas, Without hanging around with Osho for years but only through Zen and J or UG krishnamurti, will it be the same sharpness in you or in many other people like cadler.
    In HIndi we have the proverb, after eating 100 mouses, cat wants to be a vegetarian!
    There is no harm to leave Osho’s world, He has mentioned himself not to feel guilty about this, but onething is clear in no other tradition of our time, people can be so brutally honest even with their own Master. Think about Sai Baba or Mahesh yogi or J krishnamurti or even new poster boy of Indian spiritual industry sri sri ravi shankar, what kind of fire will be created in the hearts and the being.
    Some where you have metioned that other people were preparing jokes for him or he was stealing thoughts and material from here and there, but atleast give him the credit that His words have melted the maximum snow in Baveria or the Alps of western hearts. Uncounted number of people in the west have got the encouragement from Osho to search passionaltely, and i beleive you are one of them.
    He is still the Master cook even though the competators are trying their best not to burn the Omlate!

  282. shantam prem says:

    PS- Not the individual but if the collective movement around Osho is going down the drain, it is not becasue of Osho but our hurry to bring the baby out in the 4th or 5th month. Rajneesh, the slow walker or the get quick rich Samdarshi or 210 others satsang givers like him or the shailandra(,for sure there were no contraceptives during the first half of the 20th century in India), their enlighnmet is as alive as a prematurally born child.
    Osho’s words create such an alluring feeling that many start thinking, Yes, we got it, we can do it. This creates down fall. Dr. Amrito has also the same illusion , he has exactly heard what Osho was saying. The end result is that the organisational work coonected with Osho has almost come to the foot notes of human history. Again i will say, not because of Him but because of OUR MIND.

  283. Kranti says:

    Had to hurry and couldnt actually complete my post…

    …. Andreas i have a request

    Forget about all strange shows Osho enacted..

    Just play an audio CD of his and listen to the various CORE issues of life he has talked about

    Forget about the four letter jokes..Let us stick to the core message

    Can you find a single word which is not beautiful…?

    Can you find a single word which doesnt address the problems and misery of of daily life?

    Can you find a single word where he is not honest in addressing you

    Have we come across a single Master who rekindled passion in our hearts for intense life

    Have you seen anyone else who was utterly compassionate in the way he is hitting you?

    We keep focusing only on the dress he wore & some methods he used to communicate

    There is no way we can deny Him the Unbelievably Vast Space He occupies in Human Consiousness.

  284. frank says:

    come on amritbro….
    let`s hear….

    the sound of one man rappin`….

  285. Anthony Thompson says:

    amrito ain´t rappin
    amrito aini´ t the bro
    looks like there
    are two amritos
    in the block

  286. oshobob says:

    TonyZ yo rhymin’s slippin
    mmm, cud be too much Chile in the kitsch-en
    tho yu cud be right ’bout not one but twoo
    amritos, doritos, its makin me Kind of Blue
    there’s “Doc” amrito, gin-soaked legs its what they say
    and the rappin’ homie from Toronto way
    Osho gave names just like candy
    free o’ charge whatever seemd handy
    prem, anand, and veet yo name
    this world here never been quite the same….

  287. amrito says:

    hhaha…

    I’m considering to a do a Sannyasnews acapella, just dont have time these days. WIll be comming soon though!

    I was just reading Kranti;s question on Frank and his views on Osho..

    From knowing what Frank’s written on these boards, I think if Osho were to walk by right now, the first one to drop and touch Osho’s feet would be Frank.

    Just a feeling though…He’s more devoted than we think, and understands a Osho quite a bit as well.

    Next thing we know Osho Dhara could get a new member to turn things around, Osho Frank Saraswati!

  288. Andreas Roth says:

    Kranti, Osho was a big number for shure. But just see the results! It is devastating, because de facto you can not separte the result from it’s initiator and his methods. You may fool youself for a while, hope for a resurrection or even a red tide, but that would be a nightmare in fact.

    Just imagine all the ones here on sannyasnews: Put them together in one room as real persons. Now add some of the ones we bash here and some from the regime in Pune and so on. Everyone thinks himself to be a great lover (of Osho) certainly, but in fact they cannot even stand each other in reality. There is deep friction. Banning each other and calling each other idiots. No meditation at all, but great enlightenment everywhere certainly. In fact, if you are able to live within the maddening realities of the scene you must have some nerves and/or great compassion, like the the satsang gangsters who tried to collect the left over breadcrumbs. But I know no one with some considerable intelligence, who is able to stay within the scene. This is the actual and factual reality. To me it is not without reason, that e.g. Anthony is not a sannyasin. And franky boy, whom I don’t know if he considers himself a sannyasin, is hiding behind sarcasm.

  289. Kranti says:

    Andreas

    I am not sure what you mean when you say

    ” just see the results! It is devastating, because de facto you can not separte the result from it’s initiator and his methods ”

    You might have better idea of what happened to few individuals.

    I am not denying that few of the methods he used could have been different..But..You never know…

    Especially when the methods are ZENnish and ‘ pulling rug from under the feet ‘ kind of methods they are certainly not going to please everyone

    Thats why i said Osho’s purpose was to wake and not to create teachings and techniques which are acceptable to everyone

    Even when you confront a immature and uncontrollable youth and you need to save him from trouble you need to use methods which may not look good from outside.. You may have to slap an individual when he/she is trying to get out of control..What to say about such BIG EXPERIMENT in CONCIOUSNESS.

    How was Osho supposed to be in control of everything..including the results?

    Sheelas and Chris Calders are NOT by products of Osho..Infact those were majority..although intensity of egos may differ..

    If 1 out of 100 people had a positive impact because of Osho it was great achievement for Him because he was dealing with such a complex thing

    It is like a Scientist working for years and finally succeeds in one experiment after disasters with 100 experiments

    With Osho each individual was an experiment..Each experiment was a potential disaster or potential lift in conciousness

    The success percentage was very less.. Osho was not certainly playing a numbers game

    When you say ‘ But I know no one with some considerable intelligence, who is able to stay within the scene ‘

    Do you mean people with considerable EGO. Lot of well known people came to Osho and they were famous before coming to Him. Not sure what is their expectations are from Osho. After a point they might have left as their Individuality and Ego would have got suffocated.. Dropping famous ego is not easy..Infact thats the only price that was asked of them

    Correct me if i am wrong.. Are we judging Osho because few Intelligent individuals couldnt stay with Him.

    Are you talking about any other type of negative results..

    And as far as putting together a bunch inside a room and see whether what they do to themselves and others need not be anything to do with Osho .

    You can bring together a bunch of people who can beautifully co-exist also.. Will we take that as a proof that Osho’s impact was positive

    And on what basis we can put toghether this bunch?

    I am very keen to see your reply on ‘just see the results! It is devastating ‘ .. What results and What Devastation?

  290. frank says:

    but andreas,
    you are also the “results”!

    you had to be an idiot who got mugged by a dodgy guru for years to become the wise man you are today!

    that`s life.
    paradoxical.

    long live the idiots
    for they will make us wise…..
    and down with wise men,
    they will make idiots of us all.

  291. shantam prem says:

    Osho’s legacy is undeniable as a provocateur of consciousness and pushing the buttons of collective mind. He is not dead; he has left His body around 20 years ago, still on one level He will never be on the earth to share his burning views about the fast changing scenario.
    Question is not about Him but about Us. Do you believe that we the people of His legacy are doing justice to His vision. Beautiful words many people have crafted, Osho created a unique experiment of bringing different people under one sky at 17, koregaon park, Pune.
    Rajneeshpuram was bound to fail because foundation was built in an illegal way. All the fake marriages etc. for residence permit, you can not deal the pinnacle of Western laws and jurisdiction as some bribery office somewhere in India.
    What hurts me the most is the way Pune structure has taken a shape. I hope one day few students will write papers in the business school,” Case study-How to turn a successful business model into a market disaster” or “How to reduce the customers and increase the prices.”
    It is like the way “Karlstadt” is going bankrupt. For sure many small businesses will get the opportunity. At least in the high street there will be still Kaufhof, or M&S, etc. But for the inner customers, nobody has ever created such a multiplex as Osho. Its bankruptcy of ideas hurts me immensely.

    If the administrative reforms take place at 17,koregaon Park, Pune, in our life time, for sure many of us will go their regularly.There is no other place so charming to meditate together in an atmosphere of Global love affairs!

  292. Anthony Thompson says:

    Andreas, dear. This forum is a a proof of what i have seen as a result of osho´s work: a bunch of intelligent, independent individuals (you included), able to share, discuss, get angry, agree, disagree with each other, without thinking that anyone is committing any blasphemy. Simply sharing his point of view.
    Something like this is unthinkable around any other movement. Can you imagine, the moonies, hare-krishnas, children of god, or even the followers of jesus crist discussing with so much wittyness, humour, and underneth all, love and respect.
    For me this is the result of osho´s work in all of us current, former and never been sannyasins.
    I have had a blast discussing here, so much fun already, that o have dared to try to rap, tell jokes , write haikus… I have never done something like that before. I am much more stiff, usually.
    And I have been inspired by the collective spirit here, that reminds me a lot of having dinner at “Mariam canteen” in the old Comumune international, or the updated version “zorba the Buddha” in the meditation resort. the same spirit, independent individuals, from different parts of the world sharing their hearts and minds.

    My last comment goes to shantam. It is true that the meditation resort is not such a good business as it used to be. But I think it is worth the risk. the other thing was going straight fore a religious cult, with Neelam and the whole cultist team that left.
    80% percent of the people in the meditation resort are not sannysins, and are not interested in becoming sannysins. they are there to learn about themselves, to meditate and explore… and I think that is beautiful, and I think that is the essence of Osho´s work… not to be crying in front of a picture of him.
    anthony

  293. Andreas Roth says:

    Kranti, I certainly see your adoration for Osho and I do not like to object. I read your statements attentively, yet in way it is impossible for me to respond, because the whole idea of master, experiment and products and byproducts and lift in conciousness and success percentage, of slaping and pulling rug from under the feet and ego being suffocated etc. etc. does not exist to me. I do not deny that Oshos “dream” was a beautiful dream. But if you think what is happening is “a proof that Osho’s impact was positive” and if you are content with the result, what can I say?

    Frank, I deny being a “result” of anybody. That’s just not possible by it’s very nature. And it’s complete myth too. Also I was not “mugged”, but I left, when the whole thing became intolerable and the dream became a nightmare. Very simple. Are you a sannyasin frank? What is your OWN experience?

    Shantam, you say “Its bankruptcy of ideas hurts me immensely”. Happend to me too some 25 years ago. But what can we do? You say “There is no other place so charming to meditate together in an atmosphere of Global love affairs!” But why do you not live there? Why all the communes, centers and living groups have failed and Pune is on it’s way down the drain? I agree “Question is not about Him but about Us.”. I’d rather take the discussion away from the man and the “institution” and have a look at ourselfs, very factual and realistically. What is your real live situation?

    Anthony, seems the discourse on this site really had some impact on you :-) and I feel the same about this “bunch of intelligent, independent individuals” here! And yes, I have to admit, a bit like in the old days, even if this fucking flatscreen is a bit too one-dimensional to make me feel ecstatic. But after all, this is not so much Oshos earnings, but the honesty and the intelligence of these guys here. Remember this website has not been created by the Pune people and not by Oshodhara, but by Paritosh and some others, who probably were candidates to be “banned.” And the authors here are not “representative” at all for the whole thing, if there were anything like that.

  294. Anthony Thompson says:

    Sure it is “the honesty and intelligence” of everyone here, but where will you find this diversity and intelligence? If you ask me, I have mostly, but not only, found it around Osho people, and i do not mean only sannyasins, but people who have been influenced in one way or another by the old crook.
    And to deny influence of people on us is simply naive. It is not a matter of ” being a result”, it is a matter of being human and being subjected to influence as a result of interaction… and in this place the common ground is osho… what else? rap?

    and that includes you Andreas… unless, you are here, as once Calder told me, to enlighten stupid followers and help them out of the flock.
    greetings and pleasure
    anthony

  295. Andreas Roth says:

    Hello Anthony, I certainly did not mean to deny influence of others, but it never is one man/women alone (even if e.g. a father, or a mother may be dominant). Becoming a “result” would be quite humiliating, that’s why I stated it as a respons to frank. To me it is the multidimensional flow of life. That’s also one of the reasons why I became a sannyasin long ago. But since then I have found incredibele diversity, intelligence, humor and understanding also outside of the “sannyas world”. And I am sorry to say, but I have found more crackpots in the sannyas scene than anywhere else…

  296. Kranti says:

    Wish Calder has the honesty to join this forum..

    We all are going to be more open , more intelligent and more beautiful after this sharing.

    My love is for Osho and the place where He walked and danced and spoke. Something deep inside is so much at peace there

    As i said i do see the limitations of the Pune resort. Infact i did see things which are nothing Oshotic.

    Once i was in Osho Auditorium for White Robe and i didnt have a clue about those last row ‘ Reserved ‘ chairs. I sat in one of them and i was treated very badly and aksed to get out of that chair by an old indian lady .
    I have seen that lady frequently and i was shocked by her insensitivity .. She is comepletely out of the place..No effect of any meditation on her face.. there are few more Noisy Indian disciples living there about whom i dont have good impression.

    But i always tried to put these things behind and get on with OSHO & LIFE… Once i step into the resort i focus on what is happening inside me rather than outside

    I need to admit sometime my lonliness gets exagerrated when i go to the commune and feel left out . Dont know why..

    Think everyone is focuseed on themselves and it is a bit different from outside world where your ego always gets attention. But again thats the ‘lonliness Osho talks about ‘ and i need to address it.

    Think whether we are meditating in the Osho auditorium or dancing in the buddha hall or working in the market place the key is ‘focus on what is happening inside ‘

    Until we start operating from that inner emptiness we will always have conflicts and debates and issues. But i also think those things are neccessary evils on the path. It is cleaning up a garden

    I want to thank you all here on this forum with Love

    P.S: I am not winding up.. i am there ..just saying a heartfelt thank you.. Dont count me off

  297. oshobob says:

    uh oh…
    the discussions are getting long and serious again, i can feel it….like, “just what is the state of sannyas” and things like that. “what is osho’s legacy?” but everyone has good points, no doubt about it. Andreas, the proto-Nietszchian Germanic rationalist lays down some cold hard steel on the table with no hint of trepidation or remorse; Anthony tilts more to the Latino Romantic feeling scholar ethos, a bit softer and warmer than his Nordic counterpart, even rappin’ and haiku’in tho he wasn’t taught that in school. Kranti is the conservative Osho disciple, trying to persuade All and Everyone that “can’t you see, Osho is really the True God of Higher Consciousness–can’t you SEE it!” Shantam, I don’t quite know, he’s the guy that wrote the head article i guess, from the “FB Group of Osho international Commune,” whatever the hell that is, we still don’t know….and last, but not least, frank, umm …. which leads me directly to Amrito….

    Amrito, I don’t think frank would be the first to drop to his knees and touch Osho’s feet if the old man were to walk in the room. I think frank would go straight for the bling bling. Pinch the wristwatch off his arm.Just for the sake of the Event. And continuing on in your Indian/Arun PR front man in the West/devotional/mala/sannyas mode, you have determined that frank is really a closet devotional type, and you have determined a sannyas name as you (and Arun) lassoo him with a mala after he wipes his sobbing eyes and lifts his head from Osho’s feet.

    Amrito, frank took sannyas before you were born son!

    Now, there’s an Osho living legacy for you.

    I know Arun’s landing in the Big Apple tomorrow, and you’re gearing up for that whole thing, but methinks you would do better amrito to pen out a rap verse for us here, no need to make an audio file, just write it out.
    You’ve got some talent, you need to use it…

  298. Anthony Thompson says:

    I do not have the language versatility in English of oshobob and frankie…but I admire the play of words. So salut for that!

    Andry for me it is about what it is. I was reading kranti ´s response to you, a devotional sannyasin, no doubt. And there is no trace of aggression, she has shown respect and even love in the way she has answered you.
    I remember when we first met in the other forum and you were writing under a false name, out of fear of being chased by angry sannyasins, and even feared for your integrity.
    Now let me ask you. who would be threat to you here? kranti? oshobob? amrito… frank?
    do you see my point?
    What i sense is a post sheela traumatic effect. that had to do with the things were done then under her command. But now? Even if you offend Doctor Amrito and Jayesh, the worst response you will get is a suspended pass and a gin toast from the old doc.
    We are the osho people bro´… even you!!
    This is my point… and i am not even a sannyasin!!
    and if you ask me the line is long enough to have a devotional Kranti, a cynic frank, an american oshobob, a chilean proffesor who can´t rap or tell jokes, and a dissatisfied german Andreas.
    and this is sheer beauty
    anthony

  299. frank says:

    that`s right tony.
    we are like “the seven samurai”
    weaving a thread full of comedy,pathos,memorable characters…….

  300. oshobob says:

    frank, you started this whole show out with the first post — it’s at 299 now, let’s get it to 300, you should have the honors for that, ….ok? don’t ever say an american never stood back for a limey out of gentlemanly courtesy….!

  301. oshobob says:

    shyt, sorry bout that mate, uh…i just hit that “Submit Comment” button, and ….well….you know….shyt happens. You can have the ’400′ honors — the way things are going, that will take about as long as getting rid of a cold — 7 days by yourself, and about a week with a doctors help….

  302. frank says:

    thank you,kind sir.
    it has been an honour and a pleasure.

    and how better to celebrate this historic moment but to say……..

    “the o-show must go on”………..

  303. Kranti says:

    Hey

    Kranti is a male.. He NOT She

  304. oshobob says:

    anthony’s been wrong before, too, Kranti. This is not the first time he’s jumped to conclusions without sufficient and verifiable data.

  305. Kranti says:

    Yesterday i was talking to a colleague ..Very devout christian.. young guy..not in any way connected to Osho and all.. the memont i mentioned Osho.. his eyes sparkled.. he said ” I like Osho’s eyes ..very beautiful ‘

    I am just sharing this

    I am taking few hours off.. Will join you guys.. Hoping to start a fresh round of Highly Intelligent, Provocative , thoughtful and beautiful sharing…

  306. shantam says:

    The point of discussion in this very thread was the prefix, “Osho” with the names. Some pofilic author Bob writes with the same prefix. Whether he uses it as a satire or as a right like so many others,
    as a matter of fact i will refer him as a bob with the boobs or bob with the balls but not in any case, Osho….

  307. Anthony Thompson says:

    YOU ARE A GUY KRANTI!! I could have bet you were a woman.
    You write alike a girl!! Or i just jump to conclusions as oshobob disrespectfully points out.

    anthony

  308. shantam prem says:

    can´t we say to bob The Bob rather than adding the prefix Osho, the very first knot of this thread.

  309. oshobob says:

    i see your point tho Anthony. Kranti is always talking about Love, Love, Love…has a “friend” who just Loves Osho’s “beautiful eyes”, Kranti just is head over heels for Osho at all times, day and night, and shyt like that….makes you wonder a bit, if you know what I mean bro’….not a really macho way of talking, that’s for sure….sweet, but maybe a little too sweet, if you get my drift…everything is so “beautiful” and shyt like that….

  310. oshobob says:

    No, you can’t Shantam. That would be like calling Osho, “The O”. Stupid, if you see my point…

  311. shantam prem says:

    I can call you than bob with the balls or the bob with the boobs, but any Tom Dick Marry using Osho with his name as a prefix is just ugly.
    I really don´t know whether people use this prefix as a satire, as a parody or because they have got some extry ordinary experience between their legs, arms or the ears.
    But if your parents gave you this name Oshobob and it is on your passport, i will not have any objection. sorry in that case..

  312. oshobob says:

    Shantam,

    There are 15,000 Zen masters with the name Osho in Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese genealogical history. None of their parents gave them this name. None of them had passports. Just as none of the parents of Osho sannnyasins gave them names like Shantam Prem, or Doc Amrito, or (one sannyasin I knew) EastWest.

    In fact, it wasn’t either their Buddhist initiation name, or their Zen master “mountain name”. Just a very simple title of respect. I have a complete 6-page etymological exegesis on just the name “osho” on my website, http://www.livingworkshop.net, it you are interested in its history.

    Your “Osho” snatched the name himself — his parents never named him that, nor did he have it on his passport. Did it without asking permission from anyone. Just did it. A real man. Just like he took the name Bhagwan, Zorba the Buddha, Acharya, Sri, without asking anyone. He had a lot of stuff, Osho did — especially between the perinium and navel — the place the Chinese call “dantian” and the Japanese call “hara”. In English, we say “guts.” Something sadly lacking in most of his sannyasins, unfortunately.

    oshobob

  313. Anthony Thompson says:

    Come on! leave the poor oshobob alone. probably he has an American name like Tom, or Nick or something like that. oshobob is much “More beautiful” as Kranti would say:
    anthony

  314. Kranti says:

    Oshobob ( forgive me Shantam )

    No need to read between lnes..or imagine anything

    I am a Man… That too with a big moustache and a Beard..

    Any sannyasin uses the word Love for Osho freely..

    It is a better word to describe your relationship with master than using hypocritic words like respect , bhakti etc.,

    As far my language i realize i am in a forum i need to respect others views…

    Osho shares a joke..

    A 5 year old boy is sitting sad smoking a cigar

    Are you not too young to smoke? someone asks

    No i smoke when i need a drink.. thats it.

    Hey are you not too young to drink?

    No i do that only i pick up problems with my girlfriend

    So you need to smoke , have a girlfriend , drink and use the word f*** as many times possible..then you are considered a male , macho and all

    Unfortunately i dont belive in that although i do use few words every now and then..when i am drunk.

    And all true Osho disciples have a balance..combination of manliness and feminine softness

  315. shantam prem says:

    My God, http://www.livingworkshop.net, is an awesome website, never seen before kind of amazing work. I just have seen the names uttered by Osho, the complete list, A to Z.
    I could not find the name L Ron Habart, the originator of Scientology.
    I remember clearly Osho has answered a one long question about Scientolgy, The answer was very short,”Bullshit”. I am not sure whether in this question Habart name was mentioned or not,
    If somebody else was reading the question than for sure, this name Osho has not uttered.
    And dear one, about the prefix Osho… You can see i have started this thread about this very theme. If i meet a far eastern master, without doubt, i will refer hiM Osho without a blink….but as you can see from the post of “Mr. Kranti “, Anthony etc.there was a clear cut resolution about the copycats…
    If as a Far eastern you feel your disciples call you as Oshobob, just fine. If i have to learn something from you i will also refer with the same prefix plus will touch the feet too as an Indian.
    Here we are relating as equals and almost as friends, so the respectful prefix are not needed.

  316. Kranti says:

    And to add to that before Oshobob starts imagining

    I am 40 years old.. not single..

    Haha.

    It is 2.30 am here in India..goodnight my intelligent Osho disciples

  317. Anthony Thompson says:

    “my intelligent Osho disciples” ? mmmh

  318. frank says:

    osholes,more like.

  319. Anthony Thompson says:

    man Kranti, that last remark of yours sounds strange. to be married means nothing these days.
    being a latino, is a bit hard to digest so much sweetness. but i give you the benefit of the doubt.
    anthony

  320. oshobob says:

    i’ll give all you guys the benefit of the doubt — and that’s a lot of benefits with a whole lotta doubts.

    L. Ron Hubbard is the guy Shantam, who did the Scientology scam. I’m not far Eastern, and don’t have any disciples, thank the gods for that. You can call me anything that feels OK for you Shantam, i’m not a rigid person. Plus, you gave my website a great rave, so again, you can call me anything you want, just for that.

    Kranti, i’m glad you’re not single, glad you have a big moustache, glad you are 40, and glad you live in India.
    Like the Dave Clark Five sang years ago —
    Glad All Over. P.S. If your identity is real, then I support you all the way in your love for Osho. Commendable.

    There’s a new thread started I see about the closing of the Pune Osho Times, so I guess we all hop over there, and continue the action.

  321. shantam prem says:

    Thanks Beloved Bob,
    All is well when the friendliness is there. After a long sleep i can say again, your website is a result of immense passion, it is just amazing, as they say in the west,” You have nailed it”.
    the new article at this website is based on the following news article, enjoy the newspaper flavour-

    http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/jun/100609-Indian-woman-cultural-Osho-International-Resort.htm

  322. Kranti says:

    No probs Oshobob

    My identity is 100% real.

    Anthnoy: Thanks for the benefit of doubts..I will live with that..

  323. Kranti says:

    We all hop over there?

    let us unite as

    ‘Seven samurais’ and share our thoughts

    Anthony
    Andreas
    Shantam
    Oshobob
    Frank
    Amrito
    Kranti
    Horatio can be the 8th samurai

    Whi cares if it is 7 or 8 samurais

    Lets HOP

  324. shantam prem says:

    Founder is dead, long live His books..let the project gets a new lease of life under the inspiring leadership.
    I rememebr those hunderds of faces in small towns of India, not so very academic, raw human beings suddenly feel a sense of opening after reading one of Osho’s hindi books.
    The thankfullness in their being, a sense of self worth, you meet them in the meditation camps. Out of devotion will they start praying to Osho for more money or a job or better relations in the joint families..
    Most of the country may be doing it in their places of worship but not those people who have read Osho.
    Than come the middle class and upper middle class people with a commercial bent. from this income group come the maximum customers for neo gurus reaping the benefit of Osho’s ground wok.
    Here the demand and supply ratio of a living master works. These group of people who want their children to study business management and computer sciences believe that a soothing touch of a living master will be an extra benefit in the cut throat word of inner and outer success.
    Some time i wish that a epic Novel “ShantaRam” written by a hot blooded Australian wil be a helpful reading for those British, Canadian, American people who go to India or to Osho for their inner journey.