In approximately 486BC during Gautam Buddha’s last monsoon retreat in Beluva, India, his caretaker Ananda asked about the future of his sangha and the “succession”, and whether he had kept back any “secrets”, given he was by that time about 80 years old.
On the first point Guatam answered that the sangha (community) must only be based on “meditation practice” and that there was to be no idea of individual leadership or personal guidance once he was gone.
On the second he alluded to the leaves on the forest floor he and his caretaker were passing through, and said the leaves on the floor represented the “secrets” that he had not been able to convey, and picking up one leaf indicated that one leaf only represented that which he had been able to convey.
(The response of Buddha’s disciples to this did them no ostensible service, by the year 236 BC there were 63 firmly established “Buddhist’ sects !)
There seems to be some similarities amongst all the “Buddhafields” that great Masters produce.
But this is what happened and happens, and maybe “that is as it is”, is the best response. Those who “hear” the Master’s call, may hear it from anywhere. Perhaps the “word” of Buddha was even propelled to the farthest corners of the earth by these disagreements, and the great flower of Zen resulted.
In the here and now with Osho since his death I have seen many rivers, and many beautiful young flowers emerge, and from different incipient traditions, walking through the October leaves of this fine English fall.
Parmartha
What a hear say!
Parmartha. do you know, what transpired in the Lao Tzu house just 25 years ago?
And here talking about the life in Nepal Indian boarder 2500 centuries ago.
Surely, someone was recording all the gossips on his Mango!
Dont know about the exact facts of either Buddha or Osho, but each has the ring of truth to me.
With Osho, Shantam, remember that Osho signed over (in 1982) most of the powers of attorney to Sheela, presumably out of a could not care less attitude to the “future”, and so whatever he did with Jayesh in 1989 – he just took the most lazy path.
What took 150 years for Buddha’s 63 sects , ostensibly , at the rate its going , could probably take Osho’s 1000 fold in 150 years !
Based on this new thread if comparisons have to be made , then there is only one commonality & that is , of their emphasis on meditation , rest is quite obvious .
For me a big and a quite destructive contribution of a likely edited Buddhism unto Humanity the shift from “Kâma Rupa” into what now is known by most seeker as Karma. Without knowing that originally habit and attachment is Kâma Rupa and not Karma.
could you explain it better?What does it mean Kama Rupa exactly? Thanks.
Kâma Rupa and Kâma Loka are entities of Kâma what is original Love. To me, Kâma is equal to our Self.
Kâma Rupa (Desire, Lust, Attachments, Greed…) has significance to the living being (Body) and its needs. Perhaps it describes the connection between Life / Death and here we can become what already we are. Here maybe is the collective unconscious included and our cooperation.
Kâma Loka – House of Love where we are deep placed while embodied – also after. Kâma Loka is for the Anthroposophy the Astral Body, but that I find a bit low.
From my standpoint, more than realizing this isn’t needed in our spiritual reference.
Without guarantee!
Actually, Kâma Rupa seems the Meeting place of the Lovers.
Like that seen, Buddhism has stolen humanities home, Christianity gave us the guilt for and the Devil lives from it.
I see few parallels between Buddha’s Sangha and Osho’s Sannyas movement. Yes, Osho had us chanting a Buddhist Sangha prayer and all that, but I see that as his willingness to let people indulge in spiritual fantasies…give the people what they want always draws a crowd and it is often fun. The truth is that Sannyas and Buddhistic practices are light years apart. Buddha’s middle way has little to do with the Osho sannyasin credo of let’s say yes to another excess. This constant drawing of similarities between Osho and Buddha is preposterous. I can just see Osho wandering around the hood with a begging bowl. Buddha forbade his Sangha to frequent bars. Women were only allowed to enter the Sangha after Buddha bowed to pressure. The list of differances between Sangha and Osho Sannyas is extensive.
So why this constant drawing of parallels? Osho spoke of himself like he was the real deal and the sannyasins gobbled it up. On the other hand, Osho often proclaimed himself to be an ordinary man. We gobbled up that too. Yet I can say that Osho was the most extraordinary man I ever had the pleasure of meeting in my entire life. Ultimately, the responsibility is a personal one. Many of us experience the need for a Godlike, Buddhalike or Christlike figure in our life, someone who can tell us what to do as we stumble around in the darkness.
It’s a vicious cycle because it’s so dark we believe we need to elevate someone to act as a flaming light to illuminate our lives. Less won’t do. And that is why we don’t connect with our own light of awareness. It’s just a piddling wee flame. We are too lazy to fuel the flame, fan it and nurture it. Instead, we seek out the wise guys in the hope they will do all the work for us…as unto a loving father to a helpless child. Don’t kid yourself. Wise guys, like Osho, may well give good directions but ultimately it is you alone who will follow them as you walk the path of life.
Osho was Osholike and his crazy sannyasins were crazy sannyasinlike. I tossed all that Sangha mumbo-jumbo out the window thirty years ago and don’t regret it for a moment. From a distance the sannyasins might have looked a bit sanghalike but under the microscope of investigation sannyas will always be remembered and viewed by me as a movement that, unlike Buddhism, said yes to selfishness…strange way to become selfless but maybe it works because you have to get into it before you get out of it.
So, there you have it. All parallels drawn between Osho Sannyas and Buddhism are, in my eyes, superficial at best and mainly based in misconceptions.
No doubt, Lokesh, you’re right about this, although isn’t the point of the topic the likelihood of Osho’s ‘community’ going a similar way to Buddha’s by becoming split into various disparate groups, divided by the emphasis based upon perceived needs, nationalities and race, age, the influence of post-original- master teachers from the same tradition, perhaps even gender (but no, surely not!?), and other factors – all determinants of beliefs and values that are highly likely to produce, as time goes on, even greater differences than currently exist?
Still, just as Buddhist groups seem to have co-existed ok (as far as I know) why shouldn’t Osho’s Sannyas enjoy a similarly peaceful historical fate? Especially if people calling themselves sannyasins remember that the primary goal is always the ‘realisation’ of the individual, rather than creating a socio-political movement with an ambition to ‘take over the world’ (or even an ashram)! Nor even to create a network of ‘spiritual social clubs’, pleasant and supportive though these may well be. I guess saying that’s asking for trouble as it might sound like heresy to some or maybe a lot of people?
Good response, SD. I just fired that first one off without thinking too much about it.
I must be honest and say that my connection with all things Osho is tenous at best. For several years it was quite the opposite, but that is over thirty years ago. Being with Osho was something I went through, and I feel fortunate that I was around the man when it was possible to have direct contact with him. Perhaps this is why I went through that period, because I see that many become stuck with Osho for life because if you did not have direct contact with him it was easy to create illusions about him.
I am not interested in Osho’s legacy because if he left one it is a ball of confusion. Evidence of that is clearly definied in all this carry on about the OIF etc, something which I’ve previously made clear I find extremely boring and uninspiring in earliar posts. I just read that saying last night, ‘when it comes to gurus take the best and leave the rest’. I did that before having heard the expression. I don’t experience the need for a spiritual master in my life at present. It is therefore that arguments and hypothesis about where Osho’s ‘work’ is headed fail to generate much interest on my part, because I really don’t care. I see it a bit like old hippies going on about their acid trips and how the sixties was some kind of golden age.
I must admit that with older mature sannyasins I often feel good in their company, but that is not always the case. Particularly when meeting the old school sannyasins who are holding on to the Osho link because they have an investment in it, in one form or another, and also unaware of it, I can’t help but notice.
Challenges continue to arise in my life and so far I manage to rise to them my self without the need of a guru crutch. Currently I am looking at the ‘be a gambler’ number that I recently built a thread around. I find myself in a social position to take a jump into the unknown working as a DJ at a huge Halloween party. I am split on whether to do it or not. One side says ‘you can do it!’ the other puts up arguments that say why ‘bother’ and I know there is a bit of fear and insecurity there. I don’t need to work it out with a guru unless Mick Jagger and Keith Richards could somehow be cast in such a role. You see, you just have to give it to those guys in terms of just having the big balls to do their thing in front of millons of people. And here’s me, an aging, no name chump DJ, experiencing a bout of performance anxiety…what a joke. Now where is that bull? I’ll grab the beast by the horns and get out there and do my thing. On my own! That is something that my spiritual teachers taught me and I’m sticking with my decks.
Interesting link on entirely diferent subject matter, but it just goes to show you can’t keep a good substance down, same goes for gurus for that matter. Time always tells, sooner or later.
http://www2.citypaper.com/story.asp?id=16826
only yesterday,i was in a bookshop doing a bit of bibliomancy as i browsed,which is always a good “synchronistic” way of picking up information.
i read a couple of pages in a book about the rolling stones by bill german,who hung out with them back in the day.
he described how he was positioned in some kind of stage side cubby hole when the band played.
he was a little surprised when he saw that they had a autocue set up (this was right back in the late 70s early 80s.)
messages flashed up:
take jacket off.
say:`hello new york`
keith stage left,woody stage right
as well as the names of songs.
when german told fans about this,they virtually lynched him and told him he was talking bullshit.
they couldnt have their image of the stones, the great spontaneous rebels tarnished by some hack!
gilding the lily is not just the domain of religious types defending their spiritual convictions and gurus from negative energies..
its regular,good old-fashioned human hero worship.
btw. maybe keith richards does have some guru credentials,
he famously fell out of a tree,
just like lobsang rampa and osho!
I’m off to look for a tree to fall out of.
Absolute, we are usual naïve bullshiter… and prefer to think such shows are spontaneous creative.
Just as many guess History is accidental, maybe spontaneous or at the most result of a collective unconscious. To me, a quite bad combination, abstract Idealizing, Naivety and Karma Fascism. “No lie, no credits.”
Re priorities, it might be worth recalling Osho’s comment after finally relocating from America to India, something along the lines of “Whatever’s been lost is nothing compared to my Silence”.
If that’s good enough for him then….
There are malls, but where are the customers?
Feeling ‘empty’, Shantam?
How about those good old standbys, ‘religious’ politics, speculation about the future and reminiscing about the ‘good old days’? Don’t these do it for you?
Satya deva has reminded us from the hear say about Osho’s comment after finally relocating from America to India, something along the lines of “Whatever’s been lost is nothing compared to my Silence”.
I would be glad to know, whether this was the end scene?
After saying these great departing words, Had Osho gone back to Jabalpur or like in the story of Lau Tzu, ” Disappeared in the vast density of Himalayas. Silence merged with the silence”.
And what was Osho doing when back in Poona?
Pointing to the Moon (plenty of silence up there!)? Or running a social club, perhaps?
What exactly is your point, Shantam? A wish to repeat the past? If so, may I recommend you read The Great Gatsby, by Scott Fitzgerald. That might help to disabuse you of such foolishness.
When one reads so many wise books from so many wise authors, It is almost like collecting the strings of all the women one has dated.
In the end, all end up in one cup board!
In your case, Shantam, that is probably….. all end up in one cup bored!
Sects of sannyasins are like oranges and apples, mangos and plums.All have different tastes and flavours.
Dr Babbottka once said to me that, “Swami, Osho is the diamond buddha, who is bringing us the Lotus Paradise”.
I asked him what that meant and he told me that Osho was allowing us to enjoy good food, with smoking and drinking thrown in on top.
That is when got the idea to open a shop to sell these things to
sannyasins. Once I asked an old sannyasin what he thought about ‘sects’. He said that ‘sects is good,it keeps us young and healthy.’
sannyasins.
SD has the point. My rumination with this post was about all the variety of sannyasins that I still come across from time to time. The Veeresh acolytes, the Arun gang, the “straight” Poona ashram types, the rebels who want to take over the ashram, the “Rajneesh” types, the erstwhile followers of Maitreya, the Osho is not a person guy, (Chaitanya Bharti), many others, and and even the Sannyasnews types.
The presupposition of much thinking after Osho died was that there “should’ be some official type of inheritance, but as long as we dont go around killing each other, and being tolerant, then maybe in the mix Osho comes out even richer than in a single movement.
The comparison of the string leader was not about Osho and Buddha, but the inheritance of Sannyas and Buddhism.
Osho – A newcomer (Post Pune Sannyasin) – Encountering Total Hotch Potch – Finding Helpful Light of Osho
Parmartha!
I have some rememberance of a question in which osho was asked about the branchings of Buddha’s way and whether the followers were right in making his idols and recording his teachings for the posteriority?
I heard Osho giving an example of banyan tree with many braches and comparing it with another tree with few branches only!
Osho was saying that Banyan Tree is certainly very rich compared to the other tree!
Osho then went on to quote Hinduism, a tradition of so many seers, as the big banyan tree with biggest number of branches and rich foliage! But he said Hinduism is not borne out of single individual seer!
He continued that If you just take Buddha and all the branches of his way, Buddha’s Banyan tree infact may have more number of branches than Hinduism all put together!
Osho said this reflects on the sheer merit of Buddha, that his teaching were such a huge root and huge main trunk, such was the juice which flowed through Buddha, that so many branches could come out of that!
Jesus and others in that matter were much poorer tha Buddha!
Osho went on to say that Sects (Sampradaya) are not bad in itself! If a Sect has an enlightened being alive in it, he is going to be helpful to those whose can get helped and he will allow other to pass on if his sect is of no use to him! Sect with an alive enlightened being in charge is a blessing!
He continued to say that the moment enlightened one leaves his body! And what is left is his instructions in the hands of an unenlightened being, then just because the successor or the person in charge, will not be of any help, he will have no eyes who could be helped and who could not be helped! He will end up harming even those who could have been helped by the enlightened master! So Sect without an alive enlightened being in charge is a curse and calamity!
So what Buddha said while leaving his body is to be seen in this context! Buddha meant that his teaching were useless as such and could be harmful without an enlightened being in charge!
So it is his compassion, his sharpness, and his accuracy, and his discrimination – He said that his instruction are dead – his guidance is a dead thing! He made sure that no unenlightened person in charge of his Guidance gets any importance!
Osho then went on to say that this is Buddha’s way of saying that no body is my successor! And yes in future, those who get enlightened – the light in them will of any help to newcomers! It is in the same way as of him – light in him was of help to so many newcomers!
Osho then went on to say that An alive Buddha is light plus his instructions! Light is more important than his instructions! Buddha said App deepo bhav! Get your own light in my presence! He never said that once I am gone – walk by My instructions!
Osho then said Buddha was right, perfectly honest to himself – At the time of leaving his body – he knew that his light will be now unavailable to new comers – only his dead instructions are going to be left – which will be of no help – may be some greedy and cunning priest might use it to exploit others!
Then Osho came to talk on those disciples who disobeyed Buddha and used his teachings!
Osho said now if you look at Buddha’s teaching they are so sharp and incisive about human mind and its mechanisms! Even modern psychology is lagging far behind! They are precious, such incisive and accurate insights! These insights were very helpful to his enlightened disciples to help the new comers in getting aflame with their light! So they used Buddha’s teachings to spread the light – Had they not used it or recorded it – humanity would have been poor!
So it was very correct for the Enlightened Disciples of Buddha to use his teaching! Side by side it was very wrong for unenlightened disciples of Buddha to have worshipped his teaching without any light!
Buddha’s way was negative! He was always more cautious of negative thing and alerting people about it!
So Osho said Buddha was perfectly right to have said to forget his teachings and not to make statue out of him!
But Osho said that Enlightened disciples of Buddha too were perfectly right to have recorded his teachings, to have used his teachings, to have added their uniqueness to his teachings , to have created new sects out of his teachings, to have made an statue out of Buddha – seeing at which a certain Meditativeness starts arising!
Osho said Buddha was fortunate, at the time of leaving his body, so many were enlightened around him, and in those days, if Buddha would declare somebody as enlightened, 99 percent of his disciples would get inspired and only One percent would get jealous! Buddha knew that if he declared somebody enlightened – his disciples are not going to kill or abuse his declared disciple!
Osho said that he is in a way more fortunate than Buddha and in another way less fortunate than Buddha!
Osho said he is more fortunate in the sense that his audience is more mature than the audience Buddha had!
Buddha never talked about the ways of inner journey apart from his own, Buddha had to say that only his way is right and others are wrong! This is because people at the time of Buddha were not that mature, they could not stomach such broadness, so for them to walk with confidence, Buddha said only I am right, Mahaveera (Another enlightened one of his time) is wrong!
Osho said I am fortunate! I can talk on so many ways of inner journey! Many times they are totally opposite to each other! My audience is mature, they will find their own way and walk on it knowing fully well that there are many other ways too!
But Osho said that I am in a way unfortunate than Buddha! Buddha could publically declare his disciples as enlightened! Only one out 100 will not be helped! That one in hundred is going to make life of his enlightened disciple miserable out of backbiting due to sheer jealousy and hurt ego! But 99 out of 100 were helped! Those 99 will take inspiration and get helped! So Benefits far outweighed the risk! Buddha would declare and get delighted!
Osho said he is unfortunate! If he declares somebody as enlightened ! Only One out of hundred is going to be benefited! Rest 99 out of hundred are going to hound and create such problems to his declared one that life would become hell for him! So Osho said although I would have got delighted but I would not risk declaring my disciples as enlightened they are so precious to my heart! Why would I make their life as hell by declaring them enlightened! That one person out of hundred, who could have been helped , I will help him in indirect way, I would be making that one intelligent so that he could identify my enlightened disciple on his own!
I really loved that discourse! It made me clear of so much confusion which came naturally to me since I started listening Osho!
And only 22 years have passed since Osho left his body! How true he was! How prophetic he was!
Buddha was a genius! He talked just of Meditaion! See so many braches have come out of Buddhism, more than all of Hinduism put together!
Osho was on par with Osho and talked on so many ways! He deserves much much more number of branches that all of Buddhism put together!
But see the world of Osho today!
His own buddhafield – Osho International Meditation Resort Pune – An unenlightened persons is in charge – Jayesh the Business Man – No light in him – Just Secret Osho Guidance – which osho told in total secrecy – exclusively in his ears – all that I have told to world is wrong – the correct one I kept for you dearest Jayesh – No need of my light – No need of my Photos, Mala – No need of my discourses – Just this Big Stick of Osho Guidance to beat my disciples, to ban them, to make them tremble,e to make them obedient – This beating is my unfulfilled dream – My whole life got wasted on loving, nurturing my disciples – Could not fulfill my sadistic instinct – that dream is unfulfilled – I leave you my dream Dearest Jayesh!
At maximum – whatever Osho would have said to Jayesh – is one of so many of his instructions given to his so many disciples – not more than a sect (Sampradaya).
But this Osho Guidance Sect – it has no enlightened alive person – It has become a curse – It can only help business of Jayesh – It can not help a newcomer!
And see what happens to Swami Rajneesh, one of his Disciples who got enlightened and wanted to be helpful to newcomers so he declared that he has the light of Osho in him!
99 out of 100 older sannyasins (Pre pune, pune one, pune two), I have encountered- they agree on only one thing – Just hound this man Swami Rajneesh! They will caution you – Swami R is untouchable, if you are ever touched by Swami R – You are not worth being a disciple! You are not worth listening to!
I have encountered them! Just few clues to recognize them –
They talking and writings will be opposite to that of Osho.
They will be using complicated words!
They will convince you that you are wrong!
They will show you your limitations, show many sickness in you!
If you share any of your inner experiences, they will jump upon you to belittle you!
At the end of listening or reading them, you will feel small and impure and they will feel big and purer to you!
If you see their life style closely, you will figure out that they are simply doing what they are feeling like and defending themselves with or without Osho’s words!
But if you start living and doing what you are enjoying – they will start showing you so many sicknesses in you and will prove it to you using Osho’s words!
It may be difficult for you to counter them – because in the beginning they will look much more blissful and peaceful than you – you in the beginning will be miserable – so may get crushed by their opinions!
Later on it became clear to me – Every body has an inner way of living his life – If he is living that – he will be radiant and blissful and peaceful – If he is not living that he will be miserable!
Now two persons A and B may have their inner way of living totally opposite to each other! Suppose both came to Osho!
Osho will tell A that his inner way is right and prove it logically and tell that inner way of B is wrong and prove it logically!
Osho will tell B that his inner way is right and prove it logically and tell that inner way of A is wrong and prove it logically!
But Once Osho is gone! Now I am C and my inner way is that of B and I happen to run into an Older Sannyasin A!
This Older Sannyasin A is going to make my life hell! He is going to quote what Osho told him that inner way of B and C is wrong!
Now this Older Sannyasin A is not going to allow me my inner way! He will show you that see my blissfulness, see my peacefulness, this is the proof that my inner way is the real inner way! A is going to tell C that his inner is full of wrong and sickness!
And C if follows A will remain miserable!
If C keeps listening to Osho Discourse, some day he will find Osho saying what Osho said to B and what is true and helpful to C also!
If C finds some enlightened disciple of Osho- then he will be light of Osho – He will convince C that his inner way is correct for him! C gets more courage because he sees the enlightened disciple of Osho to be much more blissful and peaceful that A.
And yes many branches (Sects) have sprouted out of Osho’s vision!
They are not a problem! They just show the richness and high potency of Osho!
Some of the sects have unenlightened disciples in charge, they are not going to be of help!
Some of the sects have enlightened disciples in charge, they are going to be of help!
So, the real challenge for a newcomer is to figure out the person in charge of any Osho place, be it Pune or elsewhere!
Look deeply into eyes of the Person In Charge of Osho Place, Listen to him talk on his own authority – Figure out whether he is enlightened or not ?
If no – Run away!
If yes then whether what he is saying to you is helpful to your inner journey?
If yes – Stick to him! Osho is touching you through this Person In charge!
If no – Run away! This person in charge may be enlightened – but he is not for you! Find some other enlightened person who will be help to you!
How to figure out who is enlightened or not enlightened!
Keep listening Osho Discourse – the complete series – one after another – he will be giving clue to here and there!
May be – you will get some clarity – go to one person – become more clear – find some one else more perfect for you – and so on!
But regular listening to Osho Discouses will give you eyes, Even seeing his videos deep into his eyes – you will get clues!
As a newcomers (Post Pune Sannyasins) – We are bound to come across – the hotch potch of world of Osho – We should know how to get to helpful light in this hotch potch!
I too encountered this hotch – potch!
I too at time fell victim to Older Sannyasins and their psychoanalysis!
I could see through them their fallacy because I listened to Osho daily!
I found those discourses where Osho supported my inner way!
I found few enlightened disciples of Osho, by seeing deeply in their eyes!
Few were of no help to me!
Few were of some help to me!
One is totally enough for me!
Such a long post… did you ever think for yourself instead of quoting Osho all the time. The old man may have said something like this, but at other times he said the opposite. Cant you get it? He wants you to think/feel/love for yourself.
Parmartha!
It is really strange!
I am supposing you are an Osho Sannyasin!
I am supposing this site is Sannyas News!
My question to you is that what value your own thinking process has in your Sannyas or for that matter in the sannyas of readers of this website?
Sannyas means seeing the absurdity of your thinking process – doubting your own thinking process – dropping out of your thinking process!
The Master (not old man) Osho definitely has said something like what I posted and at other times said the opposite. Why?
He is showing you the absurdity of thought process per se ! Even if it is the most refined belonging to him!
He is using thought process to free you from your thought process!
He is using thought process to take you out of the confusion of your thought process!
Quoting Osho has this utility – to cut off the thought process of Sannyasins – to make them available to deeper world of Sannyas – feeling world – being world – world of no existence!
Could you tell me what effect – your own thinking process or the other contributors of this site – are creating into the readers!
It may be good gossiping! But no deeper value for Sannyas!
If you could figure out some deeper value of your own thoughts or thoughts of other contributors of his site – let me know! Are your own thoughts are arrows pointing to the inner sky?
Why you have named this site as Sannyas News, Why you show photos of Osho in meditation?
There is hardly any inspiration for meditation and love in your so called own thinking feeling!
It is so dry, this site, full of own thought outbursts of contributors, no arrows pointing to inner sky, infact all arrows pointing to dry intellectualism pointing to inner egos.
I am just a new comer used to listen to things worthy of listening! Your site is full of own things of contributors but they are not really worth reading!
I am just adding something which is worth reading and I do not care if they belong to my Master Osho!
Seems you have grown so old that Master Osho is appearing as an old man!
You have gone so out of track of Sannyas, your own petty thinking and petty feelings behind them have become your Sannyas!
Just do one favour – Remove Osho photo from you site , Put your own photo and Photos of contributors who post their own thought, let there be a crowd of photos of people similar to you!
One more favour – Change the name of this site. My suggestion OriginalGossipNews!
Osho wants you to think/feel/love for yourself.
Gossiping is your think/feel/love for yourself.
So why bring old man’s pictures and sannyas words in your website for purpose of news!
I came to this site thinking it is for Osho Sannyas!
I was so wrong!
Ekantam, as you surely know, self-reflection is one of the main attributes that distinguishes man from animals, and as such it’s a key feature of our humanity. This capacity for self-consciousness is the very source of our ability to reflect on our experience, learn from it and share it with others. That’s essentially the purpose and function of this site, like any other such facility of communication.
If you don’t think it measures up to your personal standards of how ‘spiritual people’, specifically sannyasins and fellow-travellers, ‘should’ communicate then perhaps that’s your problem, no one else’s?
Although I don’t doubt you’re a sincere seeker, I do wonder at times just how much other life experience you have, as your rather over-excited (why the self-indulgent ! at almost every sentence?!), over-lengthy posts, often 80% or more of which are quotes or reported speech of Osho, might well indicate the admirable enthusiasm of a passionate young disciple, while perhaps betraying the naivete of a young man with ‘a lot of living to do’ and not a great deal of life to reflect upon.
For example, I put it to you that if sannyasins had been as openly communicative and less inclined to accept ‘the party line’ in Oregon as they have been and are at SN, then things might well be very different in their world to how they are now. But that’s something you never went through so you wouldn’t really know that from your own experience.
Similarly, unfortunately, like many from your background, you appear to lack an appreciation of the finer points of western humour, especially a proclivity for irony. Shame, although not your fault, particularly as humour and an awareness of life’s absurdities, not least our selves, is one of the finest characteristics of sannyas – is it not? I sense that your tendency towards youthful emotional ‘zealotry’ also possibly undermines your capacity for seeing yourself in such a way.
Maybe, at some future point, when you reflect back on the sort of things you’ve been putting up here, you’ll eventually find yourself saying, like Bob Dylan in ‘My Back Pages’,something along the lines of, “But I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now”?!
Dear Satyadeva!
Just define these words which you used
Self Reflection
Self Consciousness
Other life experiences and their importance in inner journey
Passionate young disciple vs Cold Old disciple and how the latter is better
Your personal standards how I should communicate
Any absurdity you have discovered within your thought process and expression
I am sure, I am not getting any reply to it!
In case, you happen to define it, give few examples from your own life and conduct of these terms!
Last time also you had run away from discussion!
Seems you have just a big set of terms which you can not even define, that is the only experience you have!
Ekantam, I reckon you know very well what I’m saying and I’m not going to repeat myself, I explained it all perfectly clearly last time. I suggest you re-read my post and reflect a bit longer on the points there, if you really want to understand rather than to reactively attempt to ‘save face’ as you appear to be doing right now.
However, if you still don’t get it then that would be a fair indicator of the stage of life where you’re at, endorsing my and others’ comments to and about you.
Regarding our last discussion, it seems SN decided enough was enough, but if you care to remind me what you were saying I’ll see if it’s worth responding to, ok?
It is a little difficult – I suspect you are a follower of “Rajneesh”. or maybe Arun.
Maturity is something that comes to a man at different times, but best if it comes before a truly mystical search.
If it happens that way then one feels at ease with ‘being a light unto oneself” and that was Osho’s last words. You rush to judgement, but who is to say whether you are in some way somehow closer to Osho than me or anyone else. Is it possible for you NOT to rush to judgement and just be…. then maybe…
maturity is just the beginning, and that is just the first step on the mystical path.
And Bodh, who are you? You dont even have the guts to own yourself and become a member here….
Dear Parmartha!
You did not still answer my questions?
Why you have used Osho’s Picture when it is all about expressing your thought as you please? Does it reflect any maturity!
Why you call this site Sannyas News! When it is not any way related to Sannyas! Can you find any maturity here!
How do you define Maturity?
Can there be maturity before beginning of mystical search?
If yes, what you will call that which is added to you during mystical search as it grows deeper?
What is “Being a light unto Oneself”?
What is Light you are referring to?
Maturity has come to you – How you have rushed to this judgment?
What maturity you have Parmartha?
Give few examples please to demonstrate it!
If maturity is the first step on the mystical path then what is the last step on it ?
Who is to say whether you are in someway drifted apart from Osho than me or anyone else?
Is it possible for you NOT to rush to judgement about maturity and mystical path..
And yes Parmartha, Who am I! I am a lover, friend and disciple of Osho!
Is that inadequate?
Are you more than that?
Whatever you are more than that – what significance it has on the mystical path?
Why you have rushed to this conclusion – that I do not have guts to own myself and become a member here?
Have you told me the process to become a member, Have you ever suggested that to me?
Can you see the immaturity of your post!
Apart from the immature conclusions and immature advice which you have packed in your reply, Is there anything else?
How old are you?
Is there any Osho Fire left in you?
Does that fire express it or not?
Can you show me where is that fire in your posts?
Your response is assuming that you are standing at a high point?
I will not take that assumption without proof of that?
All your so called comments carry no meaning if there is no proof of your height!
What is value of your intellect on the mystical path?
It is very difficult – I suspect you are one of those ninetynine percent of disciples who the Osho is referring to, as the reason of not declaring enlightenment of his disciples! Because they have just his words, no inner experience , just blaah blaah of terms they hardly know!
If you register on the SannyasNews caravanserai then your email address will be verified and people can respond to you personally or in the forum. If you do this, it would help us to know you are an authentic poster. Also your posts are more likely to get responses as people trust them more.
You can see the difference in the posters, authenticated posters are in blue, unauthenticated such as yourself in red.
I have done the registration and activations as suggested!
my user name allowed is
bodh ekantam
Thanks
Thankyou for clarifying , Parmartha .
maybe Iam still not sure what you are conveying .
I don’t see Osho’s sanyas as any inheritance , unless maybe inheritance could also mean unburdening .
As I have heard, there was some kind of irony in Osho´s words when talking about Jains who worship naked Mahavira and another covering the statue with white cloth.
I feel, now He must be getting dizzy to see the effect of His own medicine.
Hundreds of times, Osho was heard saying, ” why there are so many countries or so many religions or when science is one….”
Question is why there is still headache even when newest pill was swallowed with the dose of Buddha and Buddha field energy….
Basically like beauty, truth also lies in the eyes of beholder. What we perceive as sects and cults in other person´s religious beliefs, become a garden of colourful flowers in case it is something to do with Sannyas.
Do Sannyas and chutzpah come from the same family?
Yes, most probably from the family of Zen!
Shantypants, certain criteria define what is a cult and sannyas ticks a lot of the boxes. Whaat is wrong with cults?
theres absolutely nothing to be ashamed of…being in a cult.
its high time cultists everywhere came out of the closet.
theres nothing more sad than someone standing there with robes ,a mala a pic of a bloke on the wall with a beard whos guidelines he follows all day
claiming hes not in a cult.
time to come out guys!
we should all learn something from the gays and stage a series of massive Cult Pride festivals all over the world.
just think…
carnivals with all the representatives of all the cults strutting their stuff thru the city streets on huge juggernauts hauled by bare-chested and shaven headed spiritual hunks with their pecs and chakras glistening out above their lunghis,holy chuddies and spiritual jewellery.
there could be robed figures in rolls royces dressed up as whipped cream cannisters..
bikini-clad girls handing out free kool-Aid..
raelians and aliens in the buff getting it on in the street..
hugging saints and hugging sinners..,.all welcome..
some moonie weddings…
hare krishnas in wet T-shirts and saris going wild…
TM guys levitating down the street…
aum shrinko guys selling laughing gas…
tibetan boozists drinking insane quantities of chang and chanting mindlessly…
eckhart tolle fans dressed up as garden gnomes..
baba freelunch`s crowd would come for the free lunch..
barry longers could come along and comment on how over-emotional it all was….
branch davidians falling out of trees…
shantam dressed up as charles manson..
and someone has to stand up for scientology,i think its disgraceful that diabetics are being discriminated against.
the positive thing for the osho movement is we would be better represented these days than in the old days.
we`d have brian and doperage cavorting toplessly in an open-top rickshaw singing “we are the champions”..
veeresh dressed up as barry white puffin a joint:”can`t get enough of your love,babe”
jayesh could turn out as johnny walker and amrito as general dyer in a gin bottle…
and arun in drag giving a blistering rendition of “I feel love”
the three stooges could come as themselves..
I`m looking forward to it….
come on guys.
lifes not worth a damn
till you can shout out
I am what I am!
Great painted…
where are bikini-clad girls.
Great.
I support your project.Be in the streets could be the ultimate self-awarness process.
After that,many the-rapist may find theyrselfes without a client,probably that’s why it doesn’t work.
But let’s give a chance to orange people in the streets!
Why should such an event put therapists out of work, ys? What gratuitous nonsense!
“Orange people in the streets”? Are you living in the 1970′s or 80′s?
in the 70′s i wasn’t born yet.It’s humor about the-rapist,really you don’t understand it? It’s not so complicate.Maybe you are one of them?
ys, Saturn here…
What do you know about therapy or therapists? Any personal experience at all?
Because if you have little or no experience to go on you’re hardly entitled to make such gratuitous remarks, are you? Or do you think you’re being spiritually ‘cool’ or something?
Perhaps if you ever face a personal crisis and need the help of a therapist then you might possibly change your tune.
And no, I’m not a therapist, but if I hadn’t found the right help when I needed it, more than once, then I might well not have been around to put you straight.
i have therapy experience…..i’d start very young with Osho therapy,and for a period of my life i was spending almost all my very smallsalary to pay for groups.If is helpful?Very helpful for something,and harmful for others……i’d see people with addiction to groups,getting worse than before they start it.Basically everything is in the hands of the therapist,and we know what it mean…..a great risk of failure and/or damage,since the therapist is a human being,exactly like the old indian with long beard in Oregon,for example…
As I suspected, it’s never been ‘life or death’ for you, yet you think you’re qualified to make sweeping, derogatory statements and borrow some similarly ignorant pseudo-master’s catchphrase, to make yourself feel like somebody.
And I also happen to know something from personal experience about bad or inappropriate therapy. But I’m focusing on one aspect of your case, ys.
Young sannyasin!
I agree with you!
Osho himself said that therapy is for western people who do not have an inkling of something beyond mind in them!
Therapy is just a fun play to give you a faint glimpse of Beyond Mind!
Therapy is not needed for indians!
His basic meditation techniques are far more powerful than any therapies!
For therapists, they are parasites and blood suckers of Osho world
Thanks for sharing!
https://www.facebook.com/bodh.ekantam
I have a lot to say that is on
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-graceful-buddhafield-beautiful-man-friendly-master-oifinner-circle-no-intel/489595334469471
Here we go – the origins of sectarian divisions based on views on therapy and nationality (and authenticity)…
If “therapy is just a fun play” for someone then that person is wasting their time, they shouldn’t bother. Using such a term betrays inexperience and ignorance.
And to make such a sweeping condemnation of all therapists as “parasites” is sheer prejudice, parroting a certain pseudo-master again.
Why not simply accept that therapy has its place for those who really need it (even if that doesn’t apply to you)?
Had you been around in 1975/76, or even alive, you would not be saying such things. Osho invited many therapists to the early ashram of his own free well, and constantly adopted their therapies to attract more and more westerners.
Blinkered by a blanket prejudice, if you stay in such a state you will never even arrive at the foothills of a proper search.
What a smug twat!
Parmartha!
Your comment is ridiculous and hilarious!
I am saying it again!
All so called therapies and groups are no match at all of basic meditations like Dynamic Kundalini Naadbrahma etc !
Osho himself did not do any therapy and group and rose to pinnacle of inner search!
Such is the uselessness of Therapy and groups!
Only way they are better than simple meditations are that they bring a lot of moolah if you become a group leader and therapist!
Therapy and groups do not have their own place even near the foot hills of inner search!
You make the mistake, all too common, Ekantam, of assuming that your (presumably) personal experience holds good for everyone.
Many people, some more, some less, benefit from a certain amount of exposure to such groups and therapies, which ideally, help to clear one’s space, free us from crippling fears, releasing energy and helping us live a more authentic life, free-er of inner handicaps, and as such are an excellent preparation for meditation. Not everyone benefits all the time, of course, which I know from personal experience, but ‘that’s life’, as the saying goes, there ain’t no guarantees, innit?
If such activities “do not have their own place even near the foothills of inner search”, then please explain why Osho introduced them in his movement and allowed them to become practised in his name, all over the world.
Are you sure you’re not merely parrotting a certain pseudo-master again?
Moreover, Osho’s own meditations, eg dynamic, kundalini etc. which you cite as ‘the real deal’, also themselves mostly tend to be ‘preparations’ for real meditation, do they not?
Ekantam, your posts too often betray the rather smug arrogance of a true beginner. May I suggest you do at least a couple of groups, perhaps also a few individual sessions, to help you see and dissolve the root cause of your apparent addiction to the exclamation mark? It’s glaring evidence of an inner imbalance that clearly needs to be addressed forthwith.
‘Too much arising’ in you, young man (probably in the wrong places)….
Satyadeva!
Why Osho did not do any therapies groups?
It means it is just a play thing fit for westerners like you?
Take any simple Osho Meditation, it does all clearing one’s space, freeing from crippling fears, releasing energy, and helping us live a more authentic life, free of inner handicaps! This I am telling from my own personal experience! And it can be done free sitting at my home!
And yes Therapies and groups – such activities “do not have their own place even near the foothills of inner search”. If they had a place really, then Osho and so many eastern mystics would have recommended! Sure if millions in east got enlightened without such practices, they are clearly not deserve foot hill!
Satyadeva, tell me how many got enlightened by such practices! None, no hope!
Let me introduce you to Osho’s take on few very simple meditation practices which made millions enlightened!
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-my-meditation-is-simple-no-need-of-costly-groups-therapies-at-pune/500682920027379
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-a-man-of-awareness-no-need-of-costly-groups-and-therapies-at-pune/500678400027831
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-real-communication-happens-in-silence-no-need-of-costly-groups-and-therapie/500527733376231
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-on-nine-qualities-of-his-sannyasins-no-need-of-costly-therapies-and-groups-/496967837065554
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-21-day-experiment-in-silence-and-seclusion-no-need-of-costly-groups-and-the/496909653738039
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-be-aware-when-the-breath-is-going-in-move-with-it-and-when-the-breath-is-go/501827029912968
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-place-your-whole-attention-in-the-nerve-delicate-as-the-lotus-thread-in-the/501833876578950
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-at-the-start-of-sexual-union-keep-attentive-on-the-fire-in-the-beginning-an/501840303244974
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bodh-ekantam/osho-feel-the-fine-qualities-of-creativity-permeating-your-breasts-and-assuming-/501843589911312
Satyadeva, your posts too often betray the smugness of an extrovert westerner! Poor westerner, could not go deep in any method of Osho! Can’t drown in one thing! Too much extrovertness! Will need to make so much jumping, hue and cry with many others of similar extroverted nature persons – to get to become quiet! Any easterner does it so naturally!
It’s Osho’s compassion at the extrovert westerners like you that he allowed you to play with such practices hoping that some day they will be able to come to terms with reality that meditation is very simple!
Satyadeva, regarding “such practices like therapies and groups” – Just tell me what Osho has said – how many got enlightened with it!
And Satyadeva, see your own smugness, you are suggesting me a couple of groups to get over my apparent addiction to exclamation mark!
Why donot you suggest yourself a couple of groups and few individual sessions to help you see and dissolve the root cause of your apparent aversion to the exclamation mark?
This is typical of A westerner monkey! Always jumping from one place to another ! Never be able to keep quiet and go in! Even in the name of going in, It needs jumping here and there in groups!
So satyadeva, do share with me if you are able to get over your aversion to exclamation marks with your couple of groups and a few individual sessions!
And please tell me what you did in those groups and individual sessions!
And yes how much did it cost you to get over your aversion to exclamations marks!
If you reach so far then you suggest it to me!
But your premature suggestion shows your western immaturity and smugness !
“Too much missing’ in you, old man, (definitely in the right places ..brain)
Well, Ekantam, so now you introduce the crypto-racist ‘red herring’, confidently putting down all westerners while making blatantly exaggerated claims about Indians’ spiritual capacities, eg “ANY Easterner does it (becoming quiet) so naturally” and “MILLIONS” of easterners have become enlightened. No wonder you need multiple exclamation marks for that pile of hype ‘n’ tripe. (Ever thought of going into advertising? You appear to be made of the right stuff for a career based upon the often breathless peddling of untruth!).
And you appear to have conveniently overlooked my point that therapies and groups are preparations, not ends in themselves. (But then, you would, wouldn’t you?).
Likewise, you again choose to ignore what I said about the foolishness of thinking one’s own experience applies to everyone (first lines of my previous post to you).
So, you listen to your own apparently inflated sense of ‘self’, ignoring or not even bothering to consider what is put to you. While simply copying my disparaging remarks, like a silly little boy.
Given the poor impression you continue to make here, your professed zeal for meditation doesn’t appear to have produced much of worth, I’m afraid. In fact, if, in ‘real life’, you’re anything like you appear to be here, then I think you’d be very well advised to do a group or two to learn how others see you and hopefully to drain off some of your conceit.
Lokesh was on the right lines about you, sir.
“I will be available for my people, even after death. Death is just a transfer from one country to another.”
Seems like, who so ever has uttered such kind of sentence, has the clear attention to leave the foundation stones of A Religion behind.
Even Godless religions, religion less religions are also religions.
Or they resorts, cults and sects?
Means inheritance something institutional or materialistic? What’s alive is inborn, it’s our source. Osho spoke about it as permanent, even beyond the Body. How shall this described as inheritance? It is the same “here and now” as before 25 years and will be in a million years. Those are life’s facts. If we kill celebration and create instead teachings through artifact symbols or laws from his understanding it is dodgy.
Frank, The above piece of yours can be taken for the print edition of Osho Times (German) and on the plane, internet magazine oshonews!
Because not laughing on oneself, Sannyas has lost the moral high hand to laugh on others.
“Orange people in the streets”? Are you living in the 1970′s or 80′s?
It can be, young sannyasin is living in Nepal!
who told you that,Shantam? I came back some months ago from Nepal,by the way……..
hello, this is your captainless captain speaking..
welcome aboard oshonews flight no.05H0 from here to here.
we will be cruising at an altitude of much higher than the unconscious masses,and if you look out of the window over to your left, you will see the rotten humanity committing global suicide.
for your entertainment please find the latest copy of “ivory tower”, our exclusive in-flight magazine in the pocket in front of your seat.
don’t forget to catch up on this weeks sensational story – famous osho therapist ma prem mahamangos` thrilling account of her tantric sex-sessions in a DIY orgone machine on the roof of jesus house back in 1975 with swami banana,a world-famous astrologer and orgone engineer from großharden ,who was a great grand-nephew on his cousins side of wilhelm reich.
ah! i think you`ll agree that its memories like that that make the here and now worth living.
our in-flight assistants will be round later with a menu full of bland flavourless and tasteless and dull mush.please don’t complain,as they simply wont take any notice.
the cult may experience some turbulence later on,in which case,i suggest you ignore it. it works for me.
in the unlikely event of our cult having to make a crash landing,please fasten your seatbelts,sing a mantra and pretend it isn’t happening.
I hope you have a very enlightened flight.i know I will.
thankyou
and yahoo.
love.
great description of the cult.
For me the lesson is:doesn’t matter how high you fly,soon or late you will have to land back to earth again….(of course if you don’t die before)
Satyadeva,i just say that therapy can be helpful sometimes and become an addiction in other case….what do you understand? And what you mean “As I suspected, it’s never been ‘life or death’ for you” What should be life or death for me? Osho? Meditation??
What I mean, ys, is that if therapy has never been ‘life or death’ to you, you might be inclined to downplay its value.
But your first point is fair enough.