Sannyas, as it has developed has had quite different attitudes to money. At the end of the communes in 1986 there was much talk of “poverty consciousness” but no-one seemed to know what it meant! Of course it is all well and good for some sannyasins to offer their work for no financial reward, and there are of course some who charge what seems to be ludicrous amounts. This is a plea for the middle way.
The so-called modern simplicity movement has promoted the awareness that personal fulfillment does not stem from material wealth, and that there are enough resources on the planet to meet humanity’s need, “but not enough for anybody’s greed,” to quote Gandhi. There is however a tendency to read into these viewpoints the notion that money and spirituality don’t mix – that they should be kept separate like church and state. But is antipathy towards money really right and necessary from a spiritual point of view?
There is a good notion that things like meditation classes, etc should be offered solely to cover the costs that arise in organising them. There is also the concept that satsang should be organised in a similar way. It is also true that in really pursuing the spiritual life that sometimes needs are met just from the generosity of others, what some Christians call “living by faith”. Nonetheless there are sometimes the fig tree moments, when people dont support those who love the truth.!
Sannyasnews is interested in how the punters feel.
(with thanks to Arpana for the idea)
My first exploring of formal meditation was TM and I thought it was scandelous that they charged for meditation classes.
A year later I took sannyas and never turned a hair again about paying out at the ashram, so I am assuming the TM mantra chanting moved me on in some ways, about money and spirituality, allthough I took years to get past the ‘I am a meditor’ austerity, puritan trip I was on about spending money on myself, although that, I suspect has a connection to having grown up round a father who grew up in the thirties depression and went hungry.
After churning of inner purification, one trend has emerged in a collective sannyas consciousness; a very simplistic attitude towards sex, money, power and death; Celebrate.
That which is yours is yours, that which belongs to others is also yours, if somehow you can reach their territory.
To feel guilty about anything is not in the preamble of New Man.
(Due to unavoidable reasons, management of New Man emporium has closed their establishment. Our heartily thanks to all the patterns.)
Parmartha said in his previous post ‘ when someone becomes somehow united with God or however you want to put it, they become like a red rag to a bull for the “authorities” ‘ I agree with this / that & so I think it is up to the concerned organiser , how to charge / not charge .
Iam reminded of “Everything is energy and that’s all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics.”
- Albert Einstein
how much to charge / not charge .
Sometime I wonder about the jealousy and enviousness Osho disciples specially the Indians, feel about the prices of groups and therapies.
Just want to share one example with them about the life in the west and most probably, they will understand what it means surviving.
Finally at the age of 50, I felt to learn swimming. If I could do it out of my own or through the help of friends and kids, I would have done it in all these years.
So checked the “Beginners course for Adults”. Six hours in six weeks, and the price is 269 Euros. It is not just one to one coaching. There are five other adults who have paid the same price.
What I want to say is that quality hours from professionals cost money. No wonder, people in the west don´t cross the next street without checking the validity of their health insurance. They pay through their nose to have this basic facility.
After all, everybody can not be that successful to motivate others to share the cost of their hospitalisation!
Shantam, you could have saved some time and expense for learning to swim by travelling to Glasgow, Scotland. Enter most public baths in the east end of the city and it is almost guaranteed that some local hooligans will introduce you to the crash course for beginners. They take you by the arms and legs, swing you back and forth, and then toss you into the deep end. If you don’t learn to swim very quickly…well, you can guess the rest.
Reports came to us today which indicated that some who had “lent” money to a certain somebody, (nobody knows who he is!) to start his ashram in Goa, were finding great difficulty in getting it back. However the Goa building work was squashed and he now seeks a Mexican home. Six Indians who lent money for the Goa venture struggle to get their money back.
Strange cos it is from this stable that newcomers are welcomed with the invitation of free meditation and satsang! One could see here a sort of contradictory attitude to money indeed.
When the Ranch closed in 1985 it was certainly true that quite a few sannyasins never got their investments back, though a few did. SN always felt this was a bit off, cos RSI did then go on to make quite a bit of money, and it would have been a good gesture if people were repaid, however late.
Bhagwans brother was selling and probably still is selling Enlightenment certificates, He was getting 10,000 dollars apiece. It was funny to note that many times both the husband and the wife would buy one ( no discount ). His ashram was closed when I left Nepal last year, he is using people down in northern India now.
I am not making this up
Aah bless. I do think bloodline is sooo important.
Lokji, your mala was cheap at twice the price. I was merely the middleman for a stupidly rich steel magnate who paid me an 8figure sum. Original Poona1 dj mala prices have gone through the roof.
And he loved the gold and diamond encrusted, osho marble phallus, from shree jewellers, that his wife uses for her zengasms.
Surely we all deserve love, and to ride 1st class on the oneness express.
Enlightenment by L’Oreal…. Because you’re worth it.
Shocking news PM. I am seriously considering to stop wearing orange robes and would return my mala had I not sold it to a chap in Barcelona last year for a four-figure sum.
gosh.
someone offering something for free
and there turns out to be a catch?
what is the world coming to?
have you ever felt the energy coming off a tea cosy that has been worn by an enlightened on?
wow.
i`d pay good money for one of those.
anyone selling?
Suppose its the same with chuddies. Eh Frank.
I have Osho tea-cosy hats with diamonds for sale, good price. Also osho socks
now available.
Model Rolls royce ,special edition.
I can trade you some Osho toe nail clippings, body hair, and ‘brownies’.
*Also available on ebay,10% discount with SN promo code.
I have also osho special hairs in wooden box for sale, enlightened teacosy hats in three different styles, black,grey, and, er…white.
Special discount for ex-sannyasins.
I once smoked special Osho hairs and toe nail clippings in my crack pipe and upon exhaling immediately entered the seventh dimension, where I had a cup of chai with an ascended Scottish master called Mahajimiji. When I returned to third dimensional reality there was a terrible smell of singed hair in the cockpit of the F-18 fighter I was piloting somewhere over the Gulf of Arabia. Please don’t try this at home.
Be careful of smoking toenails and hairs, Lokesh. And please be careful of illegal drugs like canabus and crack.
I have been doing some research on ‘the Bhagwan’ and it seems he was pretending to be a great spiritual teacher whilst preaching sexual relations outside of marriage,as well as love of money. Remember, Jesus tells us that ‘it is easier for a rich man to pass through an eye of a needle than into the kingdom of heaven’ .
Apparently the Bhagwan may have tried to trick innocent folks like yourself with promises of ‘enlightenment’ or a state similar to Lord Jesus. He would hiss and speak slowly during lectures, to hypnotise his followers, and demanded more and more Rolls Royce cars and many gold watches. Remember, Jesus tells us that ‘there will be many false prophets’ before he returns to lead us into armageddon. Please, look for a Kingdom Hall near you to give you guidance and read the Bible.
How much does it cost to get in at Kingdom Hall, Sam? Will I have to book in advance? Are season tickets available?
Where do you recommend sitting for the best view?
How much does a programme cost?
Thanks for the wake up call Sam. Yes, whilst high on toe nail clippings and special Osho hairs I have to admit that I might have been taken advantage of. My bungholio has been feeling very rough of late.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/swami-rajneesh/goa-commune-mexico-commune-news-facts/631389133555232
Just for some facts:-)
I wish you all the best. I can’t be bothered to plow through all that, but I will look at the pics when they come out.
Thanks Atikarmo.
This is the sort of thing SN Collective wanted from either side. It is still a mystery to us why such discussion points are not aired on the sites/pages where the people concerned engage.
We carried the news of Rajneesh’s heart attack some weeks ago because we felt it was news, and almost no sites were carrying it. He is part of the tapestry of the incredibly rich legacy of Osho across all sorts of sannyasin teachers, he does not deserve to be left out.
On the other hand he has a very good website of his own, and with a wide range of material. (But it has no open access forum such as this.) We continue to be happy to link any of the sannyas traditions which have emerged in the last 22 years with their own sites/facebook pages, etc.
“How to motivate people and earn money”
Swami/Ma Dale Carnegie
Not satisfy with your sex
try our magic oil. Money back guarantee!
Not satisfy with your heart..
Try our Tantra group. No money back guarantee!
Today try chanting -
“I love money money loves me I love money money loves me I love money money loves me”
or
“Namu myōhō renge kyō” by Shakya muni maker
*What people are saying ~
“Money talks, but all it ever said was, “goodbye”. Now it’s lovebombing me. I’m so grateful to swami Mooneyji for his online cashram and fiscal blessings.”
~ C. Senor
“Don’t let a chance like this go by”.
~ Kabir
“Lack of money is the root of all evil”
~ Ex-satanist and thuggee cult member
I suppose it is not always clear how money may aid the spiritual life.
But I would say it is clear the other way round, how it may muddy the spiritual life. For example, in Pune one, and I imagine during other eras of sannyas, seekers sometimes complained of being ripped off in one way or the other – and by sannyasins, at that time more versed in the ways of India, etc. I dont think that had anything to do with anything, and acted as a break for some for a proper exploration of sannyas.
Also the organisation for many years, certainly until 1985, played an unspiritual game with rich newcomers, etc. Trading privilege in housing and in other areas, in return for “donations” etc. to the ashram.
Thank God I was just a poor hippy up from the beaches of Goa in 1974 – that inoculated me in every way from a preoccuption with money, and “survival”. The latter has often been the defence of those who ripped people off, as it has been down through history in all sorts of places and times.
Sure Osho once said
Better to be comfortable because of money than uncomfortable for lack.
In that area.
Thanks Arpana. Yes he even said of himself he was a “rich man’s guru”. But oddly enough I never experienced it that way. Many of my fellow disciples in 1974 seemed very poor, but also very adventurous in their homelessness and unmoneyed state, and managed to “live” okay.
A fine thing to live well on a little.
http://zenpencils.com/comic/98-alan-watts-what-if-money-was-no-object/
Great Link, and very apposite.
Nice one Arps. I have to confess to a little stupidity myself.
Btw Alan Watts died early at 58 (spooky or what?) from heart failure, most likely brought on by alcoholism and smoking, maybe not the philandering part, or was it the seven kids, always a career option for school leavers.
He certainly looked wizened and in ill health for some time.
Was he really poisoned by Amerika? Oh shoosh, dominic.
Saint or sinner ? Yes, definitely.
One needs a charismatic and intelligent LIVING MASTER to bring intelligent people of the world under one platform.
Without the living master, this work is delegated to social networking sites.
This too not bad.
But the truth is it is as good as watching porn girls in the absence of LIVING PARTNER!
No, Shantam, one Master isn’t necessarily for everyone, not at all. Each one teaches or inspires a certain segment of humanity, large or small, not the whole human race nor even all the so-called “intelligent people”.
intelligent people standing under one platform?
what a curious and improbable image.
sounds like a recipe for getting pissed on or worse,especially on indian railways.
i agree totally with satyadeva… on this…
i’m just interrupting here to say i answered to you in the yellow journalism post… if you care to read…
and about money… i’d say is one of the most vast subjects anyone can talk about… all kinds of possibilities arise, because money is value, a human mental attribute… 1,000 dollars is a different sum to people of different income… what’s that quantity for a multi-millionaire?… for a homeless man?…
so all the different perspectives, all the versions on money, all the marxisms, socialisms, capitalisms, all of them depend on their own subjective valuing on life…
in this subjectivity some people have added their own ideas on how to deal with money and how not to… rules and regulations came in… a type of bureaucracy of the subjective… it’s a very big chaos…
at the same time, it happens that through history, apparently, there has been a common spiritual teaching against money… against greed… why? probably because money keeps you too involved with the world and imaginary concerns… when you have money you have to take care of so many things… because you are playing a very big complex game…
and big complex games have nothing to do with the innocence that you are trying to go back to through the spiritual journey… such an innocence… such a purity… is walking totally in the opposite way…
i always thought the sannyas movement to be very connected with money, to the end of being surprised when i’d meet “low social” class sannyasins… it always seemed like a rich people club… they’ve been doing a very good job with that propaganda-wise, though failing completely spiritually-wise… outwardly rich, innerly poor…
osho attained buddhahood first… then the paraded himself in rolls royces… he was an emperor and behaved like one before all the jewelry came in, he was not attached to it… he needed money to get his message spread all over the world… but he knew people interested in money are too interested in the outside, too interested in judging the value of things and people…
i’ve heard that humankind will evolve when we go from competition to collaboration… not comparing values but adding values, true abundance… and we sannyasins need to learn that…
i’ve heard that humankind will evolve when we go from competition to collaboration… not comparing values but adding values, true abundance
*******************
There is a chapter, or addendum, at the back of Martin Seligmans Positive Psychology you might find interesting. Not very long, so easily read standing in a bookshop.
haha… free reading, right? thanks arpana… i’ll check it out… i hope to find it…
Anand, I’ve read your response, but haven’t yet replied as I’ve been ‘busy’ coping with a back problem.
I tend to agree with you re the money issue as well, in that it was all part of the glamorous facade that obscured what sannyas is really about.
I have studied the Minoan civilisation which lasted from 2300 BC to 1450 BC and where no weapons were found. It all came down to the way boys were being brought up.
In general (in our modern societies) the problem lays with the men, trying to impress women, who are in competition with each other … do you see the cycle?
In the Minoan society women where graded by age and nobody gave a toss about the men. I never said I had an answer …
yes… but osho also knew, that people with money could get tired of money quickly if some awareness could be awakened in them… also, it was a different moment of money’s history… nowadays money can get you easily distracted for a lifetime… from videogames to iphones… and the new videogames, and the new technology…
the melodramatic comicality of the situation today makes it clear that true spirituality, sannyas, has nothing to do with money… but we keep linking it to money… why? because we link everything to money…
you go to the bar to get a girlfriend, buy a beer, buy another beer, buy three beers… you get a girlfriend… go to the cinema… to the concert… to her special night where she has to wear a new expensive dress… and you are a gentleman… of course… you buy the dress… you buy new shoes…
so relationships… are connected to money… your needs… food, water and shelter are connected to money… education is connected to money… practicing almost any type of religion… is connected to money…
money has infected everything… and spirituality shouldn’t be concerned with it much… spirituality will use money, not the other way around, because the “goal” of spirituality is beyond being rich or poor…
yes, we like comfort, beauty and delicious things… but we have associated that with having money… liking these things is something so common to everyone, it should be a natural thing, not a luxury, to have them and live in an abundant earth… that’s what our master wanted for us… so he played with the big rollers… and then, one day… what’s all this fuzz about money? look how i drop 200 mil just with a finger snap… and he left oregon…
people who left after rajneeshpuram were the type of rebels that are against the system… they were too concerned with the outer… the ranch, the government, the politics, the rolls royces, etc… they wanted to save the world… maybe some even dreamed of taking over the usa… haha…
they left… money did a big thing in the commune… money and power… and all the egos played their role… then when the master changed everything, they fled…
now, it’s visible that most of our people are concerned with the outside thing… but it’s rather difficult not to be… without a real commune… there’s nothing to do but to get a job, do a schedule, watch TV and buy gmo in the supermarket…. or else be very brave and jump out of society… but that’s not very usual… among six billion people… how many live not concerned with money?
Money is a tool, but people get caught up in money as a badge and all the badges money can buy.
(Interesting post. )
yes arpana, money can buy many, if not all badges… the core problem is believing you are the badge, or holding to it too firmly… as all things are transient… it hurts to let go when the grip is too tight…
( thank you )
A much better word than badges. Trophies.
I’ve just come to the end of a long run of musing about trophies, material, emotional, etc which I am to tired to write down. Nothing, as far as I can be conscious of is a trophy any more. (No. I tell a lie. I am still a tad identified with having been in Poona 1, allthough as soon as I own that it doesnt matter.. So not identified with identifying or disidentifying.) Fuck I’m getting dizzy.
Aka “bigging one’s ‘self’ up”, Arpana!
The ineffable self-importance of the ‘self’…
Ever seen that famous Bill Murray clip, ‘It Just Doesn’t Matter’? One of the best:
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
@ SD re Bill Murray.
My mind is boggled!!!!
Well, the currency of living in the world is certainly money – and has been for many centuries. Nothing new there…
Although we surely all know there’s a lot of truth in the old saying, “the best things in life are free”.
But if anyone wants to set up a viable alternative way of life then the reality is that money is an absolute pre-requisite, isn’t it? Money for the land, the buildings, the basic facilities, electricity, gas, water, the necessary technology, machinery, tools, maintenance – whatever…
Normally, most enterprises are funded by capital investment and if a project is funded differently, eg via donations, it’s fine, of course – except it’s tough on the ones who willingly give their cash for one thing, only to find they can’t get it back when that enterprise is abandoned in favour of another, several thousand miles away, about which they weren’t consulted. Especially if there’s little or no official documentation to fall back on.
And doubly tough if such donors are lambasted and ridiculed for being ‘unspiritual’ for having the nerve to ask when they’re likely to get their money back as they never signed up for the replacement project, nor were asked whether they’d like to support it!
Some would describe their critics’ responses as severely ‘cultish’, using ‘the ends justify the means’ argument to explain the unauthorised use of other people’s money, which could be viewed as not only dodgy business practice but as a type of theft. Others would suggest they’re simply fired by idealistic passion.
Whichever way you look at it though, both parties would seem to have made errors, the donors being far too naively trusting, the beneficiaries treating them with an exploitative contempt that both belies their alleged “innocence” and, ironically, demonstrates some of the more unappealing ‘worldly’ traits that they’re apparently bent on transcending.
In other words, pretty well par for the course for such people in such matters.
haha… satyadeva…
<3
i tell you, money is hell… it is indeed a pre-requisite to create a self-sustaining ecovillage that can live without money being an issue… only then, like a tribe in the middle of africa untouched by men, it can survive perfectly well for hundreds of years… money is just imaginary value, if people would open their eyes it would be very simple… money is used to get things and goods… ok… why do these things and goods cost?… they could be free… because i love my fellow man as i love myself, i want him to enjoy as i do… or not? haha… that's why… the lack of love creates money as the value system we live in…
in the future it could remain there, because it's useful for quantification and administration purposes… how much money was used cutting the forest? oh… ok, this much… how much was used building in the middle of the forest?… this much, ok… and how much for this plantation? and this replanting?… ok… just seeing how much you use, so you don't overrun the resources, unlike what it's happening today…
in a loving world, we all look after each other, companies build things that last, and are the best, no chinese ripoffs, just the honey… education that is true to the individual's needs and uniqueness… and the best food for everyone, and the best for mother earth… then, money will exist, possibly, but like a number in our biocalculation computers…
because again, collaboration will not try to abuse anyone, because it's not trying to get more, it's trying to give, and find a balance, between the abilities of giving and receiving of all parts involved… these days, money is competition based, who's forbes number 1? haha… so we have a world competing with itself… hahaha…
a world cheating itself, robbing itself, abusing itself, blackmailing itself… haha… very sad…
but sadder that buddha left no scripture called right greed…
Shantam, are you still looking for a living master? What did you do with the last one we gave you.
The social networking sites, is the one platform and the intelligent are not excluded, when then can get a word in.
Shantypants, not too fussed about your first lines, but your last one hits a nerve, the post-ganglionic parasympathetic nerve to be precise.
You make a firm but hard point. Can you recommend any sites?
‘Shantypants’, that made me chuckle. You know how it goes…simple things amuse simple minds.
ripping of a few fat fuckers who have probaly got the cash by ripping people off in the first place,and who are suffering from the delusion that by lending you the money they are going to get some spiritual merit is pretty spiritual,i reckon.
especially if you use that money to set up an organisation to promote spirituality.
then the really spiritual guys who are actually on the path get to keep/use the money and the fat fuckers get taught a lesson.
enlightenment,especially tantric style, is all about the end justifying the means.
if a few tossers get burned.cool.
they`ve had a chance to work off some heavy karma.
they should be grateful.
it`s a win/win.
i dont see any problem at all.
Doesn’t seem very “graceful” Frank!
Did yo ever contribute any savings to any spiritual organisation?
“the end justifying the means”
Eh Franco, it’s-a me, Niccolo. Mamma mia, we on-a same page, no ? You-a goodfella, give-a yourself a hand.
Just-a like in ‘Il Principe’….
- “It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver”
-”One who deceives will always find those who allow themselves to be deceived.”
-”The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present.”
Feelings? Ha! I wipe-a my ass with their feelings. Kah-peesh?
I agree with you Satya deva.
Thanks for correcting.
I wrote the above post, after seeing a photo of few thousand people around the world doing Gibberish under the watchful eyes of Osho.
For few days, this photo is the signature photo on my Facebook page.
“This planet has – or rather had – a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn’t the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
Remember “Prosperity Consciousness” Dominic. Big in London in the early days. (Seventies/eighties). I think they were something also to do with Leonard Orr, a guy apparently who was an immortalist, and thought he would live for ever!
Seemed to be a trick by which those who led the groups got you to pass over your money to them, on the argument that the more yo gave away, the more would come back to you.
The first part I could just about see, giving all that one hast, yes might be a spiritual move. But the second seemed odd. They were inviting this by appealing to one’s greed. That is give all your money away, but only because even more money would come to you. I must admit I always found the second part of this equation patently absurd, whatever way one looked at it. But there certainly were sannyasins and others who “did it|” in the early days, I wonder if any of them read this how they feel now?
“prosperity consciousness” certainly put the con into consciousness.
but,to be fair ,anyone who thinks that handing over a load of cash to some new age chancer is going to make them rich probably needs to be ripped off in order to help them to wise up!
Yes, PM, I do remember the prosperity consciousness number in the early eighties. Quite a few of us probably do. Keeping a big note in your wallet, imagining the current of currency and how to tap into it etc. Arriving back in Europe skint after spending the entire seventies in India, meeting your friends and asking each other what to do about the fact that we did not possess a high denomination note in our wallets to remind ourselves we were hosts to infinite wealth. I’m not sure if any of that positive psychology numero worked.
The only reason I want money is so I don’t have to waste time thinking about it. Suggested reading…’The Soul of Money’.
Sure P, ‘heady’ days, when I did some rebirthing. Leonard Orr is still around, on the circuit and on youtube. Only chance of him being immortal though is if he gets a visit from a certain Romanian count.
Magical thinking runs right through the new age and spirituality. Affirmations or positive thinking, the idea that you can simply change reality by changing your thoughts. I guess a contemporary proponent is byron katie. People still get suckered into these things, superficial, banal and unexamined philosophies. They prey on the vulnerable who pay lots of money in large gatherings, and having already invested a lot, are set on a hamster wheel of evermore advanced workshops. The atmosphere is revivalist and people are swept away by the heightened emotionality and instant community, just like…..
On the whole people don’t like much critical thinking or nuance, it’s seen as negative or hostile or just hurts their brain to think I guess.
Did yo ever contribute any savings to any spiritual organisation?
I am looking forward how Frank, the veteran Pune resident will answer this direct and pointed question by the editor in chief of Sannyasnews.
I remember playing the money game once at Findhorn with my housemembers. Rule is you only play with money your comfortable losing. I had £50, everyone else had £10. Then you sit in a circle and give and take money to and from others, according to your feeling. Then the game closes. My stash disappeared faster than you can say “Crystal Tarot Past-life reading anyone?”
Dumb game I know. I still get flashbacks.
Poverty consciousness is sooo last year. Austerity consciousness is the new black.
Money has a soul and the more you give the more you receive.
Well then since I know most of you can’t be assed, sponsor me to write posts and meditate for you.
I can do tsarzen, vipersana, fundalini and of course tranzendental medication. All credits to go in your name at the ilooninati party HQ.
Need to reframe your negative thinking around success?
Don’t say “I’m a failure at being successful” but “I’m really successful at failing”.
Have you been meaning to do brahmacharya but never quite got round to it?
I’ll do it for you, with multiple partners.
Are you tooo nice, and can’t say no to people?
I’ll call them up, and say “Hell no!” for you.
Getting stressed out from driving your karma around all day?
Relax with some quality time at http://www.darshan.con
Would you like to be a follower and sects addict, but can’t be bothered with the cost, travel and general inconvenience?
I have local people who can take care of that for you.
Do you want your inner critic silenced?
Send them to me and I’ll make sure they don’t bother you anymore.
Inner child feeling abandoned and unloved?
Park them at my online creche.
Outsource all your spiritual todo list to me. Doesn’t that feel better?
First meditation free!
Working for a better world together, I know we can make a difference.
*Wiz-Dom International TM
Sannyasnews was contacted by an Indian investor in the guru Rajneesh’s Goa ashram, which seems to have been abandoned in favour of a Mexican seaside initiative.
He wanted his money back now and seems to think there are six such big Inidan investors. The Goa thing seems abandoned, and it was a place where he had hoped to live. He now wanted his money back for that purpose on his own account. He gave us emails about what he saw as evasiveness.
The pages of sannyasnews are not the place for disputes between Ozen Rajneesh and his disaffected ex disciples to argue. One Rajneesh disciple has also written to us who also thinks it is. This is not the case.
We are happy though to provide a link through our site to any discussion around these disaffected investors and the replies to them, though not space to discuss here, particularly as Ozen Rajneesh has not provided space on his own site for such a discussion. If either side want to provide a link we will carry it.
SN collective wanted to emphasise that the Goan Investors and the Ozen Rajneesh organisation have been offered the right to post any link to their sites, or facebook pages, or whatever about this seeming dispute.
So far neither side has done so – but we would like them to do so. We dont really understand why they have not. It remains strange to the SN collective that (and this is not the first time) that punters want to have their disputes on our site, but cant be bothered to conduct their business on their own sites.
“We dont really understand why they have not.”
Because they are Sillyassins, and in the abyss of property consciousness.
Peace on it.
Poe’s law, in broader form, is:
Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing.[2]
The core of Poe’s law is that a parody of something extreme by nature becomes impossible to differentiate from sincere extremism. A corollary of Poe’s law is the reverse phenomenon: sincere fundamentalist beliefs can be mistaken for a parody of those beliefs.[2]
So very true, Arpana.
In the settlements of blind; m selling light.
Osho
In the settlement of blind, we sell goggles.
Disciple
“In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king”
Pissedoffocles, greek philosopher.
eastern style of speaking the metaphors is like squashed banana stuck in chuddies of intelligent peoples under a platform at the station like mango-breasted porn girls on social networking sites and western mind round the bend asking in straight line “who am I? I am on the sofa with Charlie eating the beef-pie”.
living master is like dick rambone making porn film and all disciples can feel organ for themselves but when he is gone subjects of her majesty cornershop trader selling XXX films to western market showing photos of jesus Buddha organs on my assbook page!
I sell goggles.
You channel Shantam so easily Frank.
Personally I’ve always been a bit dubious about psychic phenomena, but here it is, happening in front of us, and Shantam so far away from Finchley.
How do you do it it Frank. How?
Pretty good, Frank.
“Mango-breasted porn girls and squashed bananas”
Oh come now!
Excellent work frank aka the shantam phantom.
well,thanks chaps.
but I must put an end to the psychic speculations.
I`m not psychic.
what I do is pure method acting:
I put on a pair of mal-fitting chuddies,
get some cutprice meatpies in,
read the daily mail,
a couple of ripe mangos on the mantelpiece with a photo of kate winslet in the buff next to a few pics of osho and some old pics of pune from 88-90..
watch telly and a bit of porn….
and bingo…
CEO of pornography-based religious metaphor corporation in corner shop of intelligent people under one platform of company headquarters of western Anglo-Saxon social networking site management team is born and never dies !
Your modesty is a credit to you Frank, but we all know it takes a very special kind of human being to allow Shantam to take him over and speak though him.
Kudos to you.
(Why is another question. I mean you could be channelling someone interesting like Eric Morecambe or Tommy Cooper.)
I do channel tommy cooper.
he is an ass-ended master these days up there with koothumi melchedidick and eric and ernie.
he asked me to tell you this story which sums up the whole of the master/disciple relationship and seeking in general …
a man goes to the doctor and says
“Doc,I have got a strawberry growing out of the top of my head”
the doctor replies
“do you want some cream to put on it?”
Praise the lord.
You do channel Tommy Cooper.
and it is said that the man passed beyond duality and was enlightened at that very moment…
asi twam tat
jus` like that…
Okay
but what about the strawberry?
well,grasshopper…
the strawberry represents the mind or the ego.
the cream represents the teaching of enlightenment,which can,paradoxically, be either the cure or simply just another topping to make the mind/ego more seem more colourful and appetising…
do you want a flake with that?
Dominic,
What about little biographical note?
I am sure, you are in the offender´s list of the police, yet it is good to know the neighbours a little bit more.
I’m off the grid, under the radar, blacked-out, never born never fried…
Oh you know I’m just you’re common or garden dweeb…
still you might have to report me and then i’d suffer restricted internet usage while at her majesty’s pleasure.
Trying to be as opaque as your inspirational posts, but kudos to you, the master. Om Shantih….pants
An air of mystery …. mmmm. I like that. One of the mysterons.
That’s Mr Mysteron. I could tell you but then I’d have to..you know..bardo you.
More from Poe….
A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow—
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
arpana,
what you are saying is simply your mind jabbering.
it is just mental vomit.
become aware of this gibberish.
you need to drop your logic and all your illusions,find a living master and dance yourself mindlessly into no-mind..
otherwise you will end up like all the other bitter osho-haters of sannyas news who have failed utterly to get the masters message of love ,due to the negative force of their own egos and their vested interests,and are not able to recognise a master and his upcoming lineage of enlightened ones and fall to his feet in gratitude.
osho gave his life for his disciples,and when one becomes enlightened,this is how you react?
insults,ridicule and the unconscious vomit of an utterly frustrated and bitter and loveless life?
the enlightened ones are working for free and only from compassion night and day to awaken humanity from unconsciousness.
but you remain logical,cynical and critical,vomiting your negative mindstuff and destroying and smearing the beautiful and innocent love of the young and innocent seekers of truth by supporting rapists criminals liars and osho-murdering lies of the red bottomed alcoholic baboons.
love
clone raj
Sorry Frank.
Promise I wont do it again
I’m free!
Love CAN buy you money
The Coronet is an old ex-cinema next to the multi-ethnic market at elephant and castle, converted into a music venue and sometimes S&M club. It is dark, dingy and cavernous, but last night Miten & Premal turned this temple of gloom into a temple of enchantment, for one night only.
Together with Maneesh and Manose, the three Ms and a P’s soulful music entranced us into our timeless heartspace. For the sprinkling of osho lovers that were there, we could imagine ourselves transported to Buddha Hall, celebrating with the master, in a music group or heart dance, with bamboos swaying on a warm starry night, frogs and birdcalls punctuating the silence.
Both in black, Miten looked like a wizened Taoist sage, and Premal a flaxen- haired Dakini. For most of the time we sat and sang along, men and women sometimes split into their shiva and shakti embodiments, then coming together in unison. For a couple of songs, as in heart dance, we sang and namasted to our neighbours, or got up to let rip.
The set was more varied in style and sophistication than I’ve seen before.
A very large white Buddha, aureoled by a lotus flower dominated the stage, and was beautifully lit, while lyrics were projected onto the backdrop.
At times the music was reduced to bare simplicity, one guitar and two voices, african thumb piano and alcapella. At one point Miten gave up his guitar to stand and serenade his wife, with keyboard accompaniment, with his song ‘Till I was loved by You’. A touching moment.
‘This is hard” he said. “Can’t be that hard? ” she quipped.
They talked between songs to the audience, in an informal way.
This was no holy mantras for pious yoga students, but hearty and light of heart at the same time. Premal has stepped into her own as a mature woman and performer, with her own brand of humour. She says neither too much nor too little while Miten can ramble a tad as she pulls him up in a fun way. As a guitarist I notice he’s now playing a Gibson and small bodied nylon string, as featured on ‘illumina’.
Inspired by his stories of their time in Brazil with Ayahuasceros, if there’s ever a tantramantra ayahuasca journey with them, count me in!
The hearty and playful vibe was carried on backstage. I was helping in the hospitality area and selling cds. It was a pleasure to imbibe the atmosphere and connect with folks old and new. For a while it was a mini-ashram and I missed the Poona spirit, where I would be reconnecting with all these people on a daily basis, in ever deeper and more playful ways.
At one point, I noticed that the 50 or so buddhas surrounding the cd stall were all women. It certainly seems to draw out the softer feminine energies. I could have fallen in love many times over, but the caravanserai had to move on. The diaspora of aspirants scattered on a ‘white cloud’ of incense, aromatic spices and good vibes, into the thick dense metropolis.
I ‘m not at all interested in Premal and Miten’s music, being right now an upmarket ambient DJ and Flower Power retro remixes man. Nonetheless, Dominics description of events is so good I wonder if it is actually true. Good post.
Thanks Gandhoo! Namaste.
Well written post dominic.
Dhanyavad, Shants. An enchanted evening.
Sound body, sound mind, then sound asleep.
There are two ways to look at it.
If the Satsang is arranged in one’s private ( residential/commercial) space, then naturally the overheads are minimal. Participants can donate what they wish and/or share some food or services in exchange. But if the event is organized in a rented space or an established center or Ashram by an organization, then the organization needs to meet the expenses and make some profit out of it. And the profit is needed because any organization have some goals and expansion plans etc.
The other scenario is where a group of like minded individuals or families decide to live together by pooling up what ever they have, then it can be a co-commune. They can do a satsang in the common area and there is no money involved in that case. I myself not involved in one of such experiment, BUT LOVE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS IN THIS FORUM IF THEY HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE. If this model is successful, I think it will do some significant benefit to the current day society and especially the spiritual circles formed around masters like Osho.
Interesting post Anand Newman. All models work for a while. Living together creates all sorts of complications, especially if you are not clear as to why you are living together. I’ve often said it that being in love is not when when you are looking in each other’s eyes, but when you are looking in the same direction. Creating the direction becomes paramount. Swami Arun with whom I had a chance to speak with recently believes in ‘sacred space’ (my words). This space can be ‘one room’ in house, or an ashram, and once this space is only used for meditation for 48 days, things begin to happen. How this space can be created will depend on you, where you are, and the kind of people you have around you.
What is a “fig-tree” moment from the scriptures? I’m guessing SN is alluding
to the one where Jesus wants what he wants, some figs from an out of season fig-tree. He curses the fig-tree for not ‘meeting his needs’, and the next day it withers and dies.
Commentary:
The boss may not always be right but he’s still the boss!
When Tommy Cooper’s magic tricks go wrong, belly laughs ensue.
When the Messiah flops he performs tantrum yoga.
Who would you vote for on the X-factor? What do our silly punters think?
There are meta-fiscally two ways to look at Egonomics.
There are the More-ons and the Less-ons.
The More-ons gain their happiness from wearing designer clothes, bling, make-up, plastic surgery, third world baby, a cavalier king charles spaniel, a ruby/sapphire white gold iphone 5, a Doobuy Mastercard and getting waxed head to toe.
They clearly need lessons from the Less-ons, who live a simple, frugal life and gain happiness from inner wealth, and a stock iphone 5.
A subset of the More-ons are the Kling-ons, (or “fat fuckers” as Frank likes to call them). They suffer from too much abundance, as obesity is huge right now and growing as we speak. They can also be overly attached to money.
And this is where I think SN members, who have received proper sellabit spiritual training, had their half-crown chakra opened, and studied buyology, could provide a service to relieve them of their burden. To help them to let go of the material plane, perhaps with paypal and home visits.
Let us help you to help us to put the collect into collect-ive.
Our doors and pockets are always open.
Live long and prosper.
haha… funny guy…
dominic, one after another, you are writing superb posts.
One can read from first word till last and cherish the pictorial presentation..
Grassyass senor. Thankyou for not unsubscribing. Man hug.
@ SD. Bill Murray.
Ego about not having an ego,
and the less common,
ego about having an ego.
When it comes to ego I can humbly state that less is more.
Aha. The humbleness ego.