“The first commune was destroyed because of women’s jealousies.
They were fighting continuously.
The second commune was destroyed because of women’s jealousies .
And this is the third commune – and the last, because I am getting tired. Once in a while I think perhaps Buddha was right not to allow any women in his commune for twenty years. I am not in favor of him: I am the first who has allowed men and women the same, equal opportunity for enlightenment.
But I have burnt my fingers twice, and it has always been the jealousy of the women.”
– discourse from Osho in Pune two.
Tssk,
Women, eh?
Bloody `ell!
What IS going on in their little heads?
But seriously tho`, you have to get these things into perspective. Remember that Buddha was a bloke with a shaved head and a big belly who, after giving his wife and kids the slip, spent most of his time hanging around spouting his home-grown philosophy to anyone who would listen – mostly other guys with shaved heads.
There`s lots of guys like that down my local pub, and they are pretty much always seriously misogynistic.
To be fair, I reckon poofs, retards, spazzers and pygmies were probably to blame, too!
Hi Frank,
From your promptly and eagerly posted four-liner from about around two days ago to the new-old topic (7 April, 2018 at 8:27 pm), up to your today´s of around lunch break time, remembering and introducing a ´Smilla´* (with Eskimo cultural roots) and her very developed sense for snow (jealousy?) it´s quite a diversification (transformative?) jump!
Truth is that both obsessions (like envy, jealousy) rise under certain conditionings in societies (competitions via ongoing comparisons) and the less such conditionings are automatically fed (by majorities programmed this way) the less is the suffering of it – and the very crimes connected to that.
Crimes committed by either of the sides involved, btw! As by those who like to evoke jealousy and envy deliberately and feel ´strong´ this way and as by those who are befallen with an obsession not to be the unique born-being, incomparable to the innumerable rest of unique born-beings.
Both are sick, I´d say – knowing, though, that mostly just the one whose suffering is more obvious is called sick (per agreement/quote).
To evolve majority-wise into a more complex view of the whole stuff has indeed up to now not made it into ´common sense´ (or common Emotional Intelligence). That´s more than a pity! And when Osho said: “Civilisation has not happened yet” – the finger was pointing to such matters.
(I love your ´Eskimo-Take´ on the matter very much, Frank…would be just a beginning. And for me at least – being with such a paradoxical stance of a Master like Osho – has been an invitation to such Human realms).
Madhu
*Smilla is the name of the main female protagonist in a crime story Danish author Peter Hoeg wrote about an Inuit native woman fighting some bio-fascism terror and militarism of this kind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilla%27s_Sense_of_Snow_(film)
Osho did love Eskimos as was previously explored in another thread. He had a photo taken of him with an Eskimo hat on and sent out to different sannyasin centres around the world.
Perhaps it was the idea of a cold environment that appealed to him, as he loved the cold. He may have fancied the idea of living in an igloo.
But Eskimos or Inuit are no vegetarians and their whole life is dependant on animal fur, fat and meat. They will cut holes in the ice and shoot seals through the water. And hunting whales is also an important activity for those folk.
If Love is light, jealousy is dark.
One of the questions in early discourses of Pune 2 was from Devageet, as per my memory, he asks about the endarkenment in correlation with enlightenment.
As long as master was alive, jealousy was very much hidden in the dark corners of the main disciples’ heart but once He died or left the body and left the ashes behind, dark forces came out with vengeance. Jealousy, Greed and power trip are the main culprits of Pune 2´s decline.
No wonder Pune is no longer on the top twenty destinations of India famous for global spiritual tourism. Once it became number Uno!
https://youtu.be/9smpQ1fLPYQ
SS,
Prabhupada deserves his (her) ass kicked! Cheers!
I would approve what you say, Shantam, if here we were not talking about jealousy in the days of the living Master.
So either you contradict yourself by describing what would happen after the Master left or contradict the Master when he speaks of the dark side expression of the heart of his contemporary disciples.
I think men can get just as jealous as women! Crime passionelle and all that…Isn’t it all about personal interpretation of survival of the species? Something like: if you fuck with my man (or woman) then it isn’t me who is going to receive or give the sperm in order for the survival of the species, but you…and we can’t have that, can we? I am the only one that’s responsible for the survival of the species, or the survival of the Ranch, or the survival of Osho, or the survival of whatever.
What it comes down to is that the me thinks it’s responsible but in reality wants power over everything, and if another me thinks along the same lines, then there is a clash, which is called jealousy, power struggle or war or ‘Wild Wild Country’, which in fact is a mirror of this third dimension.
You are right. Look at Shantam’s and others’ jealousy of Amrito and Jayesh!
Very male….
Parmartha, also Subhuti is not very loved around here. Molto male….
I wouldn´t say that, Veet Francesco. Subhuti is a regular in ‘Osho News’, you can read a lot there about his Enneagramm ratings re celebrities and others and you can read about his own life stories he likes to tell there.
I don´t even know if these articles we are talking about in SN are posted for discussion and responses here with his agreement. He is a busy man, I guess.
Madhu
“I don´t even know if these articles we are talking about in SN are posted for discussion and responses here with his agreement.”
If your suspicion, Madhu, was founded, it would conform to mine, based on the comments to his articles on SN.
Jealousy and envy are difficult words to define and establish exact meanings for.
Imagine the language of a people who were extremely sensitive to and familiar with the minutiae of the variety of feelings and emotions in this matter, who. like Eskimos with their famous 50 words for snow, would have maybe 50 words for feelings and happenings on the jealousy/envy spectrum.
They would find the idea of people who only had two words at their disposal somewhat clumsy, primitive, inarticulate.
Language keeps pace with the culture that generates it – the whole cosmos is in flux.
In current times, the Eskimos are teaching their young people the 50 names of the available snowmobile models for sale, not the varieties of snow.
Language is without a doubt the most powerful system of metaphorical symbols in human existence. And it is both born out of its culture and creates that culture at the same time. A circle of sorts, an ongoing symbiotic system.
A society that doesn’t have much jealousy in it is not going to create many words for the different shades of it. They are not inarticulate, they just don’t need it, because they don’t have the realities that give birth to those words. Don’t necessarily be so proud of your expanded vocabulary – it’s indicative of who you are, individually and as a group, for better or for worse.
As an example, just look at the enormous amount of new words generated in the last 100 years in the field of pathological psychology in the Western world. “Neurosis, psychosis, manic-depressive, schizophrenic, co-dependent, repressive,” and on and on. Even throw in “jealousy and envy.”
You have to have it as a reality first before you try to give it a description. Or is it maybe the other side of the circle, where some people use language to create the aberrations in their audiences’ minds, and then design the new vocabulary to describe it?
Bob, you say:
“You have to have it as a reality first before you try to give it a description. Or is it maybe the other side of the circle, where some people use language to create the aberrations in their audiences’ minds, and then design the new vocabulary to describe it?”
That`s a good question.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other, in all probability.
In either case, we should be careful when creating neologisms. Rather than stuff like ‘neurosis’, ‘co-dependent’ etc. I suggest more positive ones like ‘enlightentertainment’ and so on.
If you see me in jealousy about Amrito and Jayesh I would surely say, Parmartha, you missed essence from Rajneeshpuram.
Sorry, brother, never thought you will be so blinded by false loyalty towards those who you have not seen working in your entire life.
Parmartha, let me say this also, as far as intentions are concerned, Amrito, Jayesh have more pious and down-to-earth intentions than the Indian Nepali little ones with big tasks. These two are keeping the place clean from any kind of superstition and sentimental luggage around late Osho.
Problem is, this process has made Osho as milk powder, fluidity has gone dry. And also their footmates are really nasty people.
It happens most of the time when powerful people don´t listen to the common sense and voice of concerned citizens.
Till a certain year, I was totally, totally impressed by Amrito.
“Till a certain year, I was totally, totally impressed by Amrito.”
Is it possible to share why you stopped being impressed after a certain date?
If jealousy can operate even during master´s alive presence, one can wonder how strongly it will work after his lifetime.
From his big, big heart and understanding, Osho offered very visible solution for the continuity of his legacy without any chance for jealousy and oneupmanship by entrusting twenty chosen disciples as an open ministry.
20 is not a big number but when we think how many active sannyasins were in total, it is like one after every few hundred. This body too got crushed by the weight of dark forces lurking in the heart.
We must not forget that for jealousy, first requirement is presence of more than one person. Single alone person enjoying his Erotic and Spiritual Literature is always beyond jealousy and its side-effects; sannyasins are enjoying this freedom!
Shantam says:
“As long as master was alive, jealousy was very much hidden.”
Total myth. It was jealousy that ruined Pune One, the Ranch and Pune Two.
Do you think much, Shantam, when you put pen to paper?
One of the best ways to go beyond jealousy is to expose oneself to good humanistic therapy groups and encounter.
But…see Sheela and other cabal CVs! Minimum or very few such group participations.
That’s the reason Osho made plenty of space for those groups. But unfortunately, no compulsory attendance.
Your life view is very simple. You think other than Sheela, all were holy, all are holy. Many times I feel it is divine prudence that Nature did not allow intact work of Osho in the hands of little minds.
This seems to be some kind of obsession of yours, Shantam, which fits your own world view.
We were all responsible for what happened on the Ranch: the Cabal, Osho and the people around him, and the 3,000 ordinary workers such as myself.
This makes sense.
My sympathy is ‘Only’ for 3,000 ordinary workers such as you, Parmartha.
2nd paragraph.
Admirable statement.
Free at a stroke of babyish “not my fault. It’s someone else.”
Free of victim mentality.
“We were all responsible for what happened on the Ranch: the Cabal, Osho and the people around him, and the 3,000 ordinary workers such as myself.”
The people of Antelope, the Oregonians and a lot of others were also responsible for what happened on the Ranch.
Many actors in this play.
I have made my point in connection with Pune 2. The painful words of Osho are from that time.
As far as Rajneeshpuram was concerned, one should say thanks to American justice system for their plea bargain. India would have done really nasty and bad to some foreigner who badmouthed their religious icons and create cult city called Johnson Grove!
Our world is ruled by pirates. Part of pirate unconsciousness is an permanent jealousy. To satisfy this painful complex, pirates conquer and murder. Pity, but we are part of this collective unconsciousness. Instead of celebrating, we are jealous, perhaps a wrong salvation.
It’s so childish to listen to such superficial discussions…at least go to the core of the subject and the reason why OSHO made this announcement, it should be known and absorbed by all of you.
“I was walking from Bodhidharma…passing by Lao Tzu gate
in my usual way slowing down diving deep into my inner bow to Bhagwan
Mukta is watering the garden near the gate
and seeing me walking slowly starts teasing me
and begins to spray water towards me
Anando and Neelam and few of the Lao Tzu group of women
sitting outside gossiping join in and start laughing at me
the water showers, wetting me and I have to move away
I am just a stupid joke to them…I am pretending to be enlightened
I am in my deep inner bow and this makes me furious
just pure ugliness and bitchiness in their behaviour
that too disrespectfully in front of the gate of the greatest master on earth
i cannot get their joke and look hard and angrily at them…moving on
Bhagwan deserves such great disciples
These are the ones to become his living flames of love and compassion.
What a farce this place is.
I hear the next day
Bhagwan has asked
all the women to pack and to leave Lao Tzu house.”
page 188 – ‘Tears of the Mystic Rose’ – OZEN RAJNEESH
OZEN is talking about the same announcement that Osho did that day.
You don’t need to go so far in the past, many of the sannyasins, including commenters here in sannyasnews, are spreading the same jealousy poison towards OZEN TODAY that those same women did 30 years ago. Haha…
The hard fact is that – yes, the sincere one who was innocently looking and striving for it, attained it, despite of all the bullies in his path, while the bullies and jealous ones didn’t make it, and are still struggling with the same poisons today….
Chinmayo, the incident that you recall where Ozen got the water treatment from those girls was a game for them, but Ozen felt offended.
If Osho asked those girls to pack up and leave Lao Tzu house the next day, this could have been a coincidence, not necessarily anything directly connected to Ozen.
Even if it was connected, there are other stories in ‘Tears of the Mystic Rose’ where Ozen seems to make himself very important in the Ashram, for example when Osho thought that he was being attacked by a black magic mantra, or ultrasonic sound waves, he was pointing in the direction of the crowd in Buddha Hall, where he thought the sound was coming from.
Yet Ozen writes in his book that he thinks Osho was pointing at him, because he thought that he was enlightened.
He also thought that the whole thing was a device, yet the people living close to Osho in Lao Tzu House were all aware that Osho was being deadly serious about being attacked. He told Ma Shunyo, just before he died, that “he is sitting in the third row.”
Ozen is a very creative guy, and his writing reflects this, but some people think that he has an inflated sense of self-importance. So people are not necessarily jealous of Ozen, they just don’t think he is enlightened.
Also, by the way, is it true that you beat Dhyanraj up twice at your commune, and why did you do this if Ozen declared him enlightened?
I make a slight correction here to my previous post. What Ma Shunyo said is that ” “The last thing Osho said to me, while leaving Buddha Hall on 16th January, was, “The man is in the fourth row.”
That night we videotaped the fourth row of people and watched the film afterwards, looking for a suspect. But Osho said there was more than one person, and seeing how helpless and stressed we were becoming, He said to drop the search.
He sent a message saying that He could return the energy to the person, and return it double, but that His reverence for life was total and He could not use any power destructively.
Osho was becoming increasingly weak and the pain in His stomach was worse. He had X-rays taken of His stomach but nothing could be detected on them. The pain was moving towards His hara, and He said that if it reaches the hara His life will be in danger. He looked as though He was becoming less of this world.”
SD, before you start your Spanish inquisition, Chinmayo’s reply has not even been published yet.
Why don’t you wait for him to respond?
SS, if you’re referring to my post re “bullying”, that was stimulated by Chinmayo’s one of last night (8.39pm) where he speaks of “bullies” in Ozen’s “path”, and so was not directly in response to your question to him. I was making a point that you hadn’t made. Did you not read that part?
My other one (2.29pm today) is nothing to do with “bullying” so presumably escapes your (thoroughly bogus) “Spanish Inquisition” concern.
Rumour has it, Chinmayo, as Swamishanti suggests and others have reported, that you yourself aren’t averse to a bit of bullying (with violence) – authorised by Ozen himself, of course, and therefore thoroughly acceptable, naturally….
Rather than jealousy or envy, Chinmayo, if I think about Ozen at all (which is almost never, he’s irrelevant to me) it’s with a distaste bordering at times on revulsion for his narcissism (dating, perhaps, from being from such a privileged background?) and how foolish he appeared here at SN a few years ago. Ozen IS Osho? In his (and your) dreams, mate.
It would make no difference even if it were possible to prove his ‘enlightenment’, he’s just not my cup of chai.
The competitive, aggrieved haranguing that you and other Ozen people indulge in is simply a turn-off, counter-productive, coming across as typical, pre-programmed ‘cult talk’.
Ozen Brian’s ranting disciples always remind me of this story.
There is an ancient story in India:
https://justpaste.it/1je3e
Be careful, SD,
I have just received another email from Swami Ali, he asked me to pass it on.
“This Swami Ali, real Russian black-belt disciple and martial artist with specialty of chopping egos and dicks of unconscious baboons.
You tell Satya Deva to stop speak negativity blah blah about Ozen. I come England with cocom commandos and put foot in his ass. We Russian devotees very strong, not like pudding breast Englishmen.
We drunk on divine, not Watney`s Red Barrel.
I have pictures of Rajneesh on wall and altar,and also new 2018 Vladimir Putin calendar – I like meditate on pictures of real men not afraid to show breasts and use violence against bad disciples and unconscious masses!
Pune like Crimea and Ukraine – true men with shirt off will soon reclaim to rightful owner.
Watch out! I recruit many devotees for Ozen from Chernobyl electroshock hospital!
I already convert half of inmates to Sannyas!
Also Chimpmayo, he very strong, he have huge balls, how you say in English, he dog`s bollocks!
He 25 years old and he beat 70 year-old ailing, doped-out, unarmed pseudo-hippie Dhyanraj to pulp with bare hands to show divine love of master!
This martial arts quality very high because they learn from Swami Ali!
Very difficult for SN baboons to understand such levels of spiritual attainment!
Dhyanraj very grateful as was having problems with ego, but now back to enlightened state after what he himself diagnose for unenlightened fools, “A good kicking”!
Baboons on Sannyas News just jealous of Ozen!
He real master!
He can shag 19 year-old virgin in shower and then afford to pay her off when she turns out to be gold-digger!
You just jealous!
And Ozen will make many movies in Bollywood!
Also, due to startling resemblance in younger days, Ozen also asked by very big Hollywood producer to do biopic of Freddie Mercury!
Ozen very talented tribute act! You think he only do Osho?
You know nothing, my English pudding breast friend!
With Dhyan Raj as Brian May, important figures of Bollywood have offered him billions of dollars for blockbuster ‘The Two Brians’.
Featuring all old favourites like ‘Brianemian Rhapsody’.
“Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in bootcamp
Miles from reality
Open your eyes
Look up and see
He`s just a rich boy,
From a rich family
Money’s easy come easy go
Grow a beard, pretend to be Osho.”
Frank, you and homo leftist depraved westerners not understand wisdom of master!
Sannyasins in Pune laugh at him in Pune then 30 years later he take revenge by beating defenceless old men and then shouting with followers like spoilt brat on SN!
See the wisdom?!
Such devices are only for chosen few!
Be careful! I have Ozen`s mind control code number for what is left of Dhyanraj and Chimpmaya brain.
Ozen program them with black magic mantra `hahahahaha` now they cannot escape and will do anything he say!
Such is master/disciple relationship with most important Buddha in history.
Ozen is Osho!
He is real thing!
Even better than the real thing!
We will take over world with Ozen`s army and create 1000 year yuga of superconsciousness,
but first I come England and put my foot in your ass.”
.
Wow…
Faceless frank, you make sannyasnews bloggers like me proud of such hilarious take.
Shantam, he seems a bit bonkers but Ali also asked me to forward this email to you:
“Shantam, Swami Ali here.
Ozen like you very much, he thinks you useful idiot on baboon news but be careful, this not laughing matter and Ozen`s patience can disappear suddenly like Nordic gold-digger with pocket full of loot in middle of night!
Remember, I head of Black Cobra security! This company real, like Ozen`s enlightenment! We name Black Cobra because hearing flute of master, we rise to occasion like master`s dick on Viagra in shower with 19 year-old virgin!
One click of master`s finger and I come to Germany with 200 special trained martial artists and we put foot in your ass, then foot in mouth. You not like! You end up with less functioning brain cells than Dhyanraj!”
Swami Ali, you are something…
You are surpassing my beloved Yogi!
Keep it up! XX
Hello, Tan. Swami Ali here.
I will certainly `keep it up` with the intensity of Swami Ozen`s risen kundalini after large does of Cialis during marathon livecam revenge porn session with Scandi blonde!
I very dedicated Russian seeker and search many years for master with same interests as me -making sex with 19 year-old virgins, amateur porn and beating and fisting pudding-breast Englishmen.
Now disciple is ready, master appears! I very grateful!
I go now to Ozen Cocom like Putin in Ukraine, restore some peace and sort out western baboons, then I come back Russia for World Cup and beat some more flabby Englishmen!
Life is good as disciple of master of master of masters!
When you come Ozen cocoon, Tan? I can sell you very nice house, not built yet, but don`t worry, only need to pay life savings upfront for guarantee of enlightenment!
See you soon!
Swami Ali (Ivan Ivanovski)
One can almost sometimes wait for your ´performance’, Tan. That´s what makes you so compatible for the guys here.
(XX)
Organic cult farms, growing batches of sannyas warriors and buddhies.
But do they use the right fertilisers? Sometimes pesticides are being used.
I was stunned into silence the other day, whilst walking through an area of forest. Thinking about something totally, when suddenly out of nowhere, a sonic boom and very loud RAF jet came hurtling past, flying low and breaking the sound barrier.
I was happy at this event, which brought me back into the moment.
Then I heard an owl hooting, which is unusual in the daytime, and realised that the stealth jet had woken up the owl from its sleep.
MOD:
THIS DOESN’T SEEM ON-TOPIC, Swamishanti?
The seven deadly (sometimes called cardinal ) sins for the early Christian desert fathers were:
Pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth.
So jealousy not mentioned directly there.
I think that envy means the actual urge and action towards possession of those things one wants from the person you feel envy towards? Jealousy can be a psychological thing only?
But anyway, I suppose they are close, and jealousy would be under envy according to the desert fathers?
I heard Osho use “jealousy” instead of what in Italian would sound better with “envy”; here the two words are very distant.
From a certain point of view, Parmartha, they are opposite and complementary feelings.
Jealousy is a defensive emotion that I can feel when I am afraid of losing something that I “think” to be mine; instead, envy is offensive, when I want something that belongs to someone else.
If I realise that you are envious of something that I possess, then jealousy could be my reaction proportional to the fear that you can take it away from me.
When, instead, I am afraid of losing something in the absence of envy of others, my jealousy could hardly activate envy in someone else.
MOD:
YES, Veet Francesco.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/joy-and-pain/201401/what-is-the-difference-between-envy-and-jealousy
Here is one more for all of you…it’s so great for all of you to read these things because you can see it with different eyes, not attached anymore…
“Bhagwan had said that orange robe was to be discontinued
As it attracted the attention of the Poona police and led to harassment.
But he had not said anything about wearing a robe as such
So I decided to hide my graceful slow walking behind a robe
Which was to be dark blue, almost black.
Sufis wore black robes
This was not the bright orange that attracted attention.
So i had two sets of deep blue black robes stitched and enter the ashram
No one even bothered about it
It was not loud nor radical in outlook and it hid my way of walking.
All was well and I was settled till I was angrily accosted by Tathagat
At the Multiversity one evening and shouted at.
I told you to stop walking slowly and also not to wear a robe
Robes are banned by Bhagwan.
I gently told him I was sorry and that the robe was not orange
And orange robes were banned
I had been wearing these dark robes for a week with no one complaining.
Tathagat has no patience whatsoever
Totally dictator-like, said he did not tolerate any sort of talking back
That his word was final
No robe and no walking slowly
He had given me two days to change my attitude.
I was absolutely devastated and now really angry with Bhagwan.
I had enough of this
This was the same boring, stupid and now damaging action against me
I had enough…I walked out of the ashram.
I was directly angry with Bhagwan for the very first time in my life
Now this was clearly his own fault
I was being persecuted by everyone he chose to be in power.
What have my clothes got to do with my spiritual path?
Why do these people interfere in everything?
Where is my simple freedom
To even wear what i wanted to wear?
I left the ashram and went to sleep without eating that night
I was very angry and totally fed up
I decided to leave again
And now go to the mountains and meditate with the Tibetan people.
June 1989, my flatmate Nirmal woke me up the next morning early
He knew I always slept till 1.30 or 2 pm
Hey, Rajneesh, guess what happened…guess what happened
There is a new notice at the ashram gate today
Everyone has to compulsorily wear a maroon robe
And the colour of maroon robe is exactly as the one hanging in your room
Your maroon robe
He was shocked…and baffled.
I woke up laughing madly
And just brushed my teeth and had my shower, went to the ashram
For the very first time in my entire life at 12 pm
I was the only one walking in maroon.
I walked slowly, looking out for Tathagat
now come at me again…you big bully…ha ha ha ha ha
I am walking in a robe…a maroon robe.
It was a miracle
Bhagwan understands and I laughed.
Passing by Lao Tzu gate…tears in my eyes
Thank you, Bhagwan…thank you, bhagwan
I have heard you loud and clear
I have got your secret message…my time had come
I would prepare and go in as deeply as possible…go in go in go in
He was on the side of freedom…truth will be victorious
I had grown wings of confidence
I was celebrating in my own way
I would go in deep as possible as my way of thanks and gratitude.
I saw Tathagat pass by a few days later wearing a maroon robe
Slyly pass by me looking dumb and silly…dared not look me in the eye
I knew what was in his head…never to interfere with me again.”
pages 170-173 – ‘Tears of the Mystic Rose’ – OZEN RAJNEESH
https://bit.ly/2JwhqjA
But really, Chinmayo, Ozen must be a bit crazy if he thinks that Osho decided to put all of his sannyasins in the Ashram in maroon robes just because Ozen got a bit angry with Tathagat and went up to live up in Dharamsala or wherever with the Tibetan monks?
Also, you didn’t answer the question about Dhyanraj. Is it true that you beat him up twice, and if so, why? What was he up to?