Joyti tells a story about when she was traveling around India with Osho in the early days.
It shows you dont have to be the Secretary if asked! Pity some of the later ones who filled this role also knew this….
Once in Ahmadabad, Osho was having his afternoon tea. He just asked me, “Will you become my Secretary?” I spontaneously replied, “I can’t take care of my own work, I’m so lazy that I need a secretary myself. How can I be your secretary?” He laughed and said, “You don’t know my laziness, your laziness is nothing compared to my laziness.”
One of the stories he told me then, went like this:
A master and his disciple lived in a small hut in the forest. Both of them were very lazy. One night, after both of them were lying on their mattresses ready to sleep, the master asked the disciple, “Go and see if it is raining outside.”
The disciple, not moving from his bed, replied, “No, it is not raining. A cat came from outside and I patted her and she was not wet. It is not raining.”
Then the master asked the disciple to close the door before falling asleep. The disciple responded, “What is the need to close the door, fresh air is coming in, we have no fear of anyone entering the house while we are asleep. And anyway, we have nothing here that anyone can steal.”
The master said, “Ok, but do turn off the lights.” The disciple said, “Master, out of all the work you are giving me, I have already done two. Now this third one you should do.”
Osho used to make us laugh all the time with these small stories. He then concluded the story by appreciating lazy people, saying that lazy people are very good. Active people create a lot of chaos in the world. He mentioned that if Hitler had been a little bit lazy, there would have been no second world war !
I’d leave a comment but I’m…erm…yawn…too lazy.
The rivers which end up in the desert rather then merging in Ocean have only the past, The golden past!
Gratitude that Osho sannyas has a wonderful past, inspiring past.
Ma Dharam Jyoti is one of those rare sannyasins who stick with the master during all the years and decades.
She is also one of those who packed her bag from the Neo resort and took shelter in Delhi; the refugee camp of all those who were kicked out by those few; who claim to know what Osho loved, loves and would like to love…
‘Every type of social institution is a means to kill the individual and convert him into a machine. All our universities are factories to kill the spontaneous-to kill the spark, to kill the spirit and change man into a machine. Then society feels at ease with him. he can be relied upon. He can be predicted. Man becomes predictable as soon as he becomes a machine. We can predict a husband, a wife, a lawyer, a scientist. We know who they are and how they will react. We can be at ease with them.’ Osho quoted by Aubrey Menen ‘The New Mystics.’
Jyoti is obviously no robot.
There is a wonderful discourse I once heard where Osho talks about intelligent inquiry as opposed to blind superstitious belief on the one side and scepticism on the other. The religious believer and the atheist both miss. Osho then talks about the synthesis of intelligent inquiry and trust. The discourse is from ‘The Guest’, talks on Kabir. His words still touch a chord.
Menen points out in his book that in private Osho ‘is close to the true teachings of the Upanishads. He is at pains to point out that to gain the knowledge of the real self, one must be alone’.
the idea of “social institutions trying to kill you” is too onesided.
what about the social institutions(that you belong to) that make food,shelter, clothing etc etc available to you?
its the old “jesus crucified socrates poisoned,blue meanies harrassing the beatles in yellow submarine,freemasons,12 foot lizards etc etc…..bullshit…”
all that kind of thinking does, ultimately, is inflate your ego to thinking deludedly that you`re not part of it all…..
and the others are just robots…..
so pass the armagnac,smack,dope,gas,valium,thallium and get some chicks in….i`m feeling pretty egoless tonite….
hey babe, take walk on the left-handpath
and all the coloured girls in your jungian shadow go
doob dadoob dadoob doobti doob doob di doop dooooo…..
all that kind of thinking does, ultimately, is inflate your ego to thinking deludedly that you`re not part of it all…..
and the others are just robots…..
I respect what you say.You are probably right.
Osho’s quote about ‘robots’ is no different from Marcuse’s ‘One Dimensional Man’ which inspired activists during the sixties to be the odd ones in. Marcuse’s books played a part in the anti-Vietnam
protests and he was an important inspiration for me and others. We weren’t the ones deluded.
We said NO! Just like Joyti said no to becoming Osho’s secretary.
Obviously sannyasins are no less susceptible to being robots than anyone else. I like Sartre’s description of the robotic waiter who is trying to be a being-in-itself which is an impossibility. Yet humans persist in this folly, denying responsibility. Satre wrote this under nazi occupation. A lot of robots around.
Regardless of everything that has been said I don’t know what I would have done in Joyti’s position.
Being lazy,easier said then done,or not done, what’s the difference! Ultimately it’s when the will to survive or not to survive has disappeared!
Karima, that is a bit too deep for me. In fact, I haven’t the faintest idea what you are talking about. Would you care to explain in layman’s terms?
Hoi Lokesh, when i now say to you: figure it out yourself, am i being lazy or not?
A dog barks: the caravan passes.
my will to survive sometimes disappears completely when i read some of the comments on jackass news!!
but i like the idea of enlightenment being a question of people competing to show how lazy they are.
thats the kind of scene i could almost be bothered to get into……
Frank,
The best thing is not to have been born. The next best thing is to die as soon as possible.
Silenus
Silenius was always a bit nego.
btw.
nowadays it is generally understood that hitler WAS actually lazy.
try googling : “hitler,lazy dictator”(if you can be bothered!)
they reckon all he ever did was prepare his speeches.
and he didnt get out of bed until the russians invaded germany!
Frank,
Ian Kershaw’s ‘Hitler 1889-1936 – Hubris’ is the standard work on Hitler and his regime. There is second volume as well.
However, you rhetoric is persuasive.
‘I was offered an opportunity of speaking before a larger audience; and the thing that I had always presumed from pure feeling without knowing it was now corrobrated; I could speak’.
Hitler, in Mein Kampf
‘
When I was once in the British Library I compared Kershaw’s books with ‘Hitler A study in Tyranny’ by Alan Bullock (1962.) I was not surprised to find the overall structure of the two books to be similar, with the subject matters of the chapters to be quite similar.
Alok,
Really interesting. Thomas Childers, who has spent years lecturing on Hitler and the Nazis, claims Kershaw’s book will become the standard work. I haven’t read Bullock. Did flick through Tyranny in my student years. I’ve no desire to be an expert in this area. Childers has pointed out it gets harder by the year to lecture on this topic.
You’re starting to remind me of the TLS. Warm regards.
Roman, thank you for the compliment
Alok,
I do like the constructive criticism in the letters of the TLS and the London Review. I forgot to reply to your past post on the early christian communities. Heard a great program by some emminent scholars and reseachers on this topic on the radio the other day. Cheers.
Do you hear of White Power Movement from Russia and US, otherwise little google. Those people are a ticking bomb, and even worse. By the way, there are indication that the Grandfather was first Cousin of Churchill and his Father ran the Bank of England. One interesting thing, that H prohibited masons, but Churchil and the other two were.
thanks for that bit of useful info,preetam.
it`ll come in really handy the next time i run into a 12 foot lizard wearing a churchill mask who tries to give me a funny handshake…..
Guess you think I am a little over motivated and want to draw you down, I don’t. But who will be able watching something, without getting frustrated, if not my family. Yes it is an old conspiracy, and it begun before 3000 years. The only reason, don’t allow Humanity finding themselves, only the wrong self/Ego are ok. With every means what is needed.
Why was at the collar of the German SS, the emblem of Skull and Bones with the number 322. The same emblem Skull and Bones of Yale University has. Prescott Bush, Grandfather of George Bush, made lots of Business with the Nazis over the Union Banking Corporation.
The whole is really a terrible situation of Humanity. All Pyramids of the world should complanate. Ankor and Borobudur should be rebuilt.
I pretty much agree with what Preetam says .Interesting to watch the reactions of the Osho people about these conspiracy theories. It seems many of them just stay away from it by the way. But check on the web how many people are debating about these issues, I don’t think they are all idiots. And soon or later this should bring to the main question: what place has Osho, his life and his death, in all this new world order scheme? Well, always if SannyasNews has the courtesy to let these arguments come to the surface without censoring.
Yes, as a seeker of truth, we can close the eyes before the lies. But then we are only a cue ball applied to a leash, what had been given by wrong people.
it could very well be that the “maya” that you may,as a seeker, be trying to meditate your way out of,is not a physical state but rather means “consensus reality”,”conditioning”"new world order”,
that is,basically the story told to enslave people by those in power,govts,parents,lizards,masons etc. and hide from them the fact that they are “free”"god”"beyond that stuff”etc….
if this is the case,then the answer to the question of where osho is in this “world order”will depend on whether you see him as a liberator from the world order or maya ,a man to set free people from it or a guy caught up in it.
i suspect that asking your question about oshos place in the new world order may well be just another way of asking the same question as i did when i first sat in front of him
“who the fuck is this guy?”
and then,bit by bit,
“who the fuck am i?”
We were discussing the matter of blinking in the previous thread — Hitler apparently did not blink much either, as can be seen from this ‘triumph of the will’ footage:
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
As a speaker Hitler was, in many ways, polar opposite to Osho — he gesticulated wildly, was obviously brimming with aggression, and his intensity was over the top. Osho was basically serene, a sort of cool still lake to Hitler’s boiling water (though the Osho of earlier years, in his ‘rajas’ phase, was a hotter fire). But one thing they did have in common was the ability to hold the attention of an audience, to a degree that the audience would essentially forget everything except for the presence of the speaker.
Of course, any good speaker has that ability — in the realm of rogue mystics, William Patrick Patterson claimed the same thing about Gurdjieff and to a lesser degree, Chogyam Trungpa. Rasputin and Crowley had allegedly hypnotic presence. Every American President can, to some extend, mesmerize, if only because of the power invested in them by the structure around them. But it is rare that a speaker can implant an entire ideology into an audience, or rouse them to a great collective cause.
I recall that Osho had some interesting remarks about Hitler. Someone took the trouble of compiling them here (and he also comments on laziness vis a vis responsibility):
http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Osho/osho_on/osho-on-adolf-hitler.html
Teertha,
I’ve always loved Chaplin in ‘The Great Dictator.’
Chaplin as Adenoid Hynkel rages on about persecuting Jews and everyone is ecstatic. Later the little barber (Chaplin) assumes the identity of Hynkel and rejects Hynkel’s ant-semitic policies calling for a new humanity based on love. What I find interesting is that the words don’t matter.
The leader can say what he likes, he’ll still be worshipped. The cult of charismatic authority makes for an interesting study. You may find the new Osho biography useful for your research. I thought of you when I posted.
‘Ma Dharam Jyoti is one of those rare sannyasins who stick with the master during all the years and decades.’
What is the big deal about that? Just because someone sticks it out, as you put it, Shree Shantam, does not mean that person is evolving spiritually. Jyoti might be someone who feels comfortable with sticking it out. Nothing new there. Many married couples stick it out and some end up leading very frustrated lives.
Here I see our different standpoints encapsulated. I see Osho as a man who had much to impart. When my time with him was over it was over and I moved on and in the course of my life I met other people who could impart something or other that helped me on the path. Each to his or her own. There are times in life when one has to stick something out. In regards to Osho, my time spent around him was a treat, something to be enjoyed and not something to be endured.
A close friend, whose opinion I regard highly, was telling me today that the resort is an excellent place for new seekers to go, that it really gives people inspiration. Someone there is getting something right, which is contrary to all the negative rants that you, Shree Shantam, direct towards the resort management. When I listen to what you have to say on this post I see a bit of the old suffering Christian there.(Are you wearing a hair shirt today, or perhaps standing on one leg on top of a stone column?) Then I ask, what exactly do you propose as a replacement? An environment where people have to ‘stick’ things out to gain merit in your eyes? Sounds like bullshit to me. Whatever happened to your inner Zorba? You know, the one who, laughs, sings and dances his way to enlightenment.
old lokesh-style white-skinned subjects of her majesty having only one generation of master-disciple relation are not sticking it out but just sticking it in and then moving on, like customers on the steve zuckeburgs facebook dating agency.
i was also hoping to stick it in like in osho energy pumping phase of 88-90,when i was pumping and sticking it in, but with resort CEOs of international osho corporation in charge and lack of suitable customers,i am not getting chance stick it in any more so i am singing the virtues of sticking it out.
Frank, that was extremely well put. Can’t wait to hear what Shree Shantam has to say next.
The attempts we make to convince readers.
The Simpsons:
Marge: (sings) ‘How many roads must a man walk down before you call him a man?’
Homer: Seven
Lisa: No, Dad, its a rhetorical question.
Homer: Ok, eight.
Lisa: Dad, do you even know what ‘rhetorical’ means?
Homer: Do I know what ‘rhetorical’ means?
‘You talkin to me?’ by Sam Leith
Betrand Russell once wrote a famous essay called
“In defence of Idleness”. I read it once and liked it…. but it was strange cos Russell was a real ants on the pants guy in every direction, and could not relax at all in my view!
Then there was a book called the Lazyman’s Guide to Enlightenment”, but I was too lazy to try and find it.
I like what Joyti said to Osho… so simple and straight, and I cherished her book until someone stole it from me! And I like her.
The pic. of her with Osho … well it says something that cannot be said.
She said no to the Master, but in a delightful way… and she was there for him doing the cleaning, or whatever. Certainly not sticking it out, or sticking it in, but just being there and that was enough.
A good example to us all.
Parmartha,
Read Russell’s book when I was a kid and it made an impression upon me. Amazing how ‘decent’ soul don’t return books.
Cool.
Thaddeus Golas’ ‘Lazy Man’s Guide to Enlightenment’ is a good little read, a sort of Western’s dude’s Tao Te Ching. The whole book can be summed up as ‘don’t resist’. One of his good lines was this:
‘The more bad thoughts and feelings you try to weed out of yourself, the more there will be’.
Or this gem, useful to contemplate for any concerned with the perfection, or lack thereof, of a guru:
‘Even if you are not just testing your structure, the motive for purifying yourself —that you feel spiritually impure—will prevent any genuine gain until you learn to love the impurity you started with. Can any being seriously think that he is going to pass through the infinity of time without ever making another mistake?’
we are all in the gutter,just some of us are looking at the stars…….
Oscar Wilde
Wild Oskar?
Thaddeus Golas’ ‘Lazy Man’s Guide to Enlightenment’ was first published in 1971-72. Does it mean people who went for dramatic change called Sannyas in their behaviour and appearance did not read this book in their formative years?
It must be a tragedy.
Enlightenment seems to be as easy as making curd at home. It is not more than a minute process. What is the need to go to any store, atleast not in an another country, another continent.
On a lighter note, If our master was not born as an Indian but as a Swiss, what he would have done?
Instead of developing psycho spiritual MNC, he would have created something like Nestle.
Procuring Raw material from all over the world and grinding into their own brand and selling back to the same people who produced food grains!
Yes…this is the lazy man´s way.If one cannot be hard working like a farmer, then be smart like a businessman!
¡What is the need to go to any store, at least not in an another country, another continent?’ Ehm…..er….comfort shopping?
Loafing and laziness.
Some of us may remember these lines of Walt Whitman. Whitman has been, arguably, the biggest influence on American literature, music and art. Self-educated, a lover of life and human beings. Loved by all.
A few lines from ‘Leaves of Grass.’
‘I Celebrate myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
And I loafe and invite my soul,
I lean and loafe at my ease … observing a spear of summer grass.’
I know Osho loved him.
Jimi Hendrix had more of an influence on music than Walt Whitman ever had. Same goes for the Beatles Stones Brian Eno and many others. So, Roman, what influence did Walt have on music that was so important?
even george formby had more influence on music than ol` walt.
In oher words Roman is talking nonsense. Whadda say Roman?
sounds like roman is probably off celebrating himself…..
Frank,
You’ve recovered your will to live. Nothing like breathing your last to put new life into you.
Soon you and Lokesh maybe the only one’s throwing the ball on ‘jackass news’ – your words! Incidentally placed Guenon alongside Osho because the young sannyasin quoted him. Just wanted to keep the ball rolling. As if I really would care about Guenon.
‘Leaving it up to you now’ John Cale
Take care!
btw,roman,
did you know that guenon had a huge influence on french music?
apparently,serge gainsbourg, johnny halliday and plastic bertrand were huge fans…
“he who knows he is a jackass
is not the true jackass”
–chuang dong ki
If i look at the general opinion about Osho and His sannyasins, the word “Lazy” may not get as many hits as the word “Cocky”.
‘Cocky’…..Is the old urge returning after all these years of activity?
This Thread brought up an Idea. Because it is very common at the Moment founding a Trust. Harry has its “Sentebale Trust”, Poona the “Dehli Trust”. Me launched the “Rest & Ease Trust”. I will do the administration, Pay Pal would be fine.
Are Preetam and Shree Shantam one and the same entity?
its a simple equation.
dont trust anyone who starts a “trust”
Whitman and Osho
In Poona 2 Osho attracted some of the greatest muscians and artists of India. Some names come to mind such as Ustad Usman Khan, Hari Prasad, Shahid Parvez, Kalyanji etc. There were also outstanding poets and creative artists who visited the ashram. Many creative Westerners also came to see him. Osho’s discourses were wonderful. I once made a comment to Anando, Osho’s last secretary, about the ranch and she said something like that could never happen again. Teertha touched on this in an earlier posting. I found Anando to be a delightful person who is warm and generous. One can be a secretary and do the job well. Poona 2 was a flowering period and Osho has left a wonderful legacy. It seems genius always leaves a legacy.
This now brings me to the genius of Whitman. I thought there would be the responses I received about Whitlam’s influence on American music. I won’t highlight his influence on literature or art. It is too obvious. So some words about Whitman and music.
Firstly, I’ve heard a wonderful lecture by Karen Karbiener titled ‘Singing the Songs: Whitman’s Impact on Modern American Music.’ She is the General Editor of Encylopedia of American Counterculture. She is inspiring and lectures on Whitman at the University of New York. She has written extensively on him. As well as her own works she recommends reading Bryan K.Garman’s ‘Race of Singers: Whitman’s Working Class Hero from Guthrie to Springsteen’ and Robert D.Faner’s ‘Walt Whitman and Opera’. There are more references. Karbiener points out that there are two schools when it comes to Whitman’s influence on music. It isn’t that hard to work out what she means.
School number one: Woody Gutherie, Pete Seeger, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, and Steve Earl.
School number two: Jim Morrison, Patti Smith, Sonic Youth, P.J.Harvey and Ani Di Franco.
Karbiener points out that artists like Kurt Weil, Charles Ives, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Bernstein and more had set Walt’s poetry to music. In fact no other poet has been set to music as much as Whitman: 539 times.
Springsteen once quoted Whitman: ‘The poet’s job is to know the soul’. Springsteen says, ‘You strive for that, assist your audience in finding theirs.’ I haven’t even mentioned Whitman’s influence on pop. Whitman has left a legacy. Gutherie and Charles Ives were aware of this. Genius comes along sometimes. We were lucky to be in the presence of genius. He’s left a legacy and it is continuing.
By the way you can see ‘The String Cheese Incident’ a pop band recite Whitman on stage and impersonate him. I don’t have to mention the beats do I? Or Black Voices such as Langston Hughes. Walt and Osho are pervasive.
In fact no other poet has been set to music as much as Whitman: 539 times.
Ever heard of Bob Dylan?
Lokesh,
I’m a Dylan aficionado. As Dylan once said, don’t study me. Study those that came before me. All the poets and writers I’ve looked at. Chronicles is a great read. Dylan knows his debt to Whitman. I’m getting tired of this game. At least it got a response and I could throw Osho in. Walt left a legacy but I probably won’t think of him for some time. It is a beautiful day. The sea isn’t snot green like some places.
Yes, and as far as old Walt goes you are prone to exagerration. Do you always get tired of the game when put on the spot? Why not simply admit it to yourself? I personally don’t care. I enjoyed getting on your case. Thanks.
Please deposit funds in USB acct no 87645677765435, because you can trust me.
Ok Frank.This is for your 11:11 post.(strange number coincidence!). I’m just asking who is Osho in another way. I’m just asking what was his aim in life, what he came here for. I’m asking the question that he’d answered in one thousand and one way, always cancelling the answer he’d given before. The maya,the illusion, the darkness is inside. And the new world order is outside. And it gets nourishment from us, uncounscious humanity.
After years of questioning, I’ve come to the understanding (maybe wrong btw) that there is no real separation between the inside and the outside, they both influence each other. And if the master, any master, always starts to teach saying that the only thing that matters is the inside, that is just a trick,in order to push all your energy on the inside rather than totally focused on what happens outside, like the society wants. But the thing is that he knows very well that everything is interconnected,and that’s why he needs a peaceful enviroment in his Ashram,where all the people go to go in,and he puts a few selected ones to care for the relations with the world.
And if after a few years he makes you move from Poona to Oregon maybe it’s because, among other things, that he beleived you were ready to bring in the world that you had experienced in his energy field. And to create a “paradise on earth”.
Well, history says he was wrong. But which role the CIA and the Vaticanhad played in this is something it has never been clear. And this is because of the New World Order, which in many aspects, is already here. But we are not completly enslaved,. I hope.
I think that many sannyasins overestimate the way the USA goverment viewed Osho. He was a nuisance and that was about it, as far as they were concerned. Poisoning a few hundred folks in some no name town did not exactly make Osho a top ranker like say Bin-Laden in terms of posing a threat to American citizens, because even though sannyasins were the only people to pull off a successful bio-terrorism act on Ameican soil it was a pretty dumb move. I also think the Vatican saw Osho as a nuisance but I don’t think the pope shit his pants .over it.
I find it delusinal to think the CIA and the cardinals were very interested in Osho, because when he got a crack at playing on the world stage he looked like a buffoon with his car collection and Hollyweird oufits and attacks on the religious status quo (mahatma Gandhi should jump out of the window alomg with Mama Theresa etc), which was perhaps his way of saying he was not intersted in any of it. The new world order…..yawn.
the new world order is pretty similar to the old world order
just updated.
so the clergy and the state and all the powerful people are conspiring to keep themselves up,which means keeping you down,
what`s new?
for example,the diggers and levellers of 17th century england wanted to hold all land in common as they said god had made men equal.
they got land and lived together to make it happen
they managed only a few years.
they got demonised, run out of town and their asses kicked.
who by?
the church and the state.
so,really whats new?
So far with you… only I don’t think it’s a new world order. It’s an old world order. This group managed over hundreds of years bringing it together from there standpoint, world domination. But it seems in really these guys don’t have anything except the material Power, covered by Religions, Politics and Monarchy all coordinated by the Hermetic Masonic Symbol and belief system. They work with a kind of double bookkeeping. For the so called Mob the second and for them the first bookkeeping. And for sure is a commune like Osho commune a kind of front for their structure, because it does not fit within the dictatorial, fascistic Order.
p.s.: In my opinion, the most intriguing structure, not without meaning, is that the Masonic eagle has two heads, looking at two sides.
This is really a disgusting, repulsive Order, that humanity with all and every means forces a false sacrifice and by that hostility ensnares, driving most away from experiencing our true “Self”, “Soul”, “God”. A wrong sacrifice goes to the outside, away from the Self; oblation has to be brought within the true “Self”. Maybe it needs to be clarified what oblations are. A wrong oblation is extremely destructive, because the sacrifice is enclosed and deposited within our Self. As I realize my Self, we are both the sacrificer and the oblation, but it has to be brought within our Self.
preetam.
are you writing in some other language then using an auto-translator?
or are you really saint paul to shamtam`s jesus?
Do you think i don’t know it’s the same old shit as ever? Just that everything in life keeps on changing, so the domination structure must also change. So in the old times the State with the periodical wars and consequent starving of people, and the church with the fear of hell was enough to keep the people working hard for this old world order. Now, with industrialization, food and shelter having become available for more or less everyone in the europe-america exploitation joint venture, the people have a bit more of time to think other than what we eat today, hencethe need for a new system, much more complex, to keep the people in the old world order.
So the final question is:which role Osho is playing in this new-to keep the old-world order? Is he helping the people to come out of it (inside) or is he the ultimate tool used from the elite to enslave the so-called seekers of the third millenium? When I see the shape of the new buildings in Koregaon Park and compare it with the central symbol in the American dollar, I find some similitudes and it doesn’t give me a nice feeling……just talking about inner feelings, like sannyasins usually do…….
youngman,
i will hazard that the answer to your question is that you are looking at a gestalt picture of the cup and the two faces.
you look one way and osho is the new world order and you look another and he is freedom from it.
you can only see one way at a time yet both are there.
same with you or me.
you ARE part of that new world order.
the new world order is part of you.
you benefit.
are you living in dharavi or some other slum?
no? then you are a beneficiary of the new world order whether you like it or not.
the idea you are separate and free from it is a fantasy.
you are free/enslaved
mind/body
conscious/unconscious etc etc
to try to choose one will never work
the opposite will come and bite you on the bum……
the pyramid is the ultimate symbol of theocracy, hierarchy and dictatorship
all those millions of tons of bricks to support just one capstone on the top.
but they`re groovy too.
remember the cover of floyd`s dark side of the moon?
and what about black and red pyramid acid?that was strong.
that reminds me.
i took some acid on the beach in mahabalipuram on a full moon once and visited the deserted beach temple.
it is a gopuram,its similar design to a pyramid .it was the first time that i realised how oppressive the religion behind it was,how utterly rigid and top-down it was,despite the beautiful stone work.
at that time it was falling into the sea,which kind of felt right.
now they`ve hauled it up and you have to pay to get in i think.
Sorry Frank, but you sound only reactionary, had so many of you in my Cab.
i dont doubt it, darling.
“Do I contradict myself
very well then , I contradict myself.
( I am large, I contain multitudes)”
Sounds like Osho.
Forgot to mention Whitman inspired John Cage, which opens up all sorts of doors. Whitman and Osho would make an interesting thread. Ginsberg said he was the re-incarnation of Whitman but was also humble enough to know he wasn’t in the same league. Whitman loved singing. His poems have a beat and are pure music. A person I studied with interviewed three leading poets for his masters degree. The one thing they said was that poetry is music. The beat comes first then the words. I can’t see the point in rubbishing poets like Rumi. You may as well do the same to Osho. Osho’s discoures on Kabir are pure poetry.
Certainties
“A certain one whose name was his real name
lived in a real place at a certain time.
Then the time was gone and the real all gone.”
William Bronk
i would say jesus christ had more influence on american music than anyone.
ok,the guy never played an instrument,just banged a few nails but without him…
no gospel music..
so….no soul
no r and b
no rock n roll
no rock….
from the son of god the father to the godfather of soul….
and beyond….
alleluia,bro……
Lokesh, let me make it clear once for all, i don´t have an alter ego, neither i am smart enough to play double role.
As Preetam has mentioned his sun sign, i am Pisces too.
What about you?
Aquarius??
Astrology has never really interested me. I agree with Osho that astrology is for people who cannot find significance in their lives. Funny enough my birthday is 11 December. Is that significant? No. It is a coincidence.
http://www.sadhguruinlondon.com/
This was the ad. banner on my facebook page.
Another Indian guru singing the praise for meditation and claiming to transform the life.
No body can compare Indians when it comes to cockiness; there is some old world charm.
Lokesh whether your birth day is 11th December as like Osho or it is 13 February like Anders Behring, the man presently on trial in Norway, i will believe only if i see your passport!
Sagittarians are famous for their generosity and deep convictions about their serach for truth, and on a shadow level, they will not hesitate to use fictions to prove “their truth”.
Just because one believes in something does not become a valid science, neither disbelieving makes something invalid.
But this to pass through the skulls of masculine sign people need a life time of boring, to admit they don´t know something is like losing the control, therefore many such people will never admit any failure any guilt, but try to cover it up with some kind of philosophy, some alibi, just like the chap in Norway; a shadow side of male dominated signs.
Just like the chap in Norway; a shadow side of male dominated signs. Yes, or that guy Shree Shantam in Freiburg. Similar in their racist phobias and lack of success in the world and their ideas relating to lost causes. Interesting point. Are you sure you want to pursue it?
This Behring was possibly Freemason: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-news-2-0/105114-anders-behring-breivik-illuminati-freemason.html
Pity found only German, hint that Anders Behring Breivik entry in Freemason Wiki was delited.
http://freimaurer-wiki.de/index.php/Anders_Behring_Breivik
wow.
amazing.
and what about that mad woman who poisoned loads of innocent people,women and children in the first bio-terror attack in the states?
she was a freemason…
no,wait a minute, she was a sannyasin.
those guys are dangerous conspiracists.
my god,you are a sannyasin,too,preetam..
man ,these lizards get everywhere….
Yes, it is full of those guys, especially in wrong positions and I don’t like them interfering with Meditation.
Have read within the “The Emerald Tablets Of Thoth”, it’s described a monthly happening. All in public service had to say once a month in public a particular word.
Maybe it is not bad to question motivation and if people in charge are in conflicting interests.
these lizards get everywhere….pretty logical to deduce they are in the sannyas movement too.Maybe Poona is the Kuruksetra of our age kali yuga,so let’s join the battle and hope to be in the side of the truth…..oh yes good and evil does not exist, everything is going right in the universe, there is nowhere to go and nothing to attain…..I’d stop to smoke this junk some time ago.
youngman,
yes, “everything is going right in the universe and there is nothing to attain”
dont forget that this “rightness” includes your anger at the lizards and your right to give them a good smack in the teeth when you catch them ripping you off…
and,the way i see it,if there`s nothing to attain, then it doesnt matter what you do,and sitting on your backside looking holy will not be any different than knocking six sorts of shit out some shapeshifting lizard who is conspiring to enslave you….
like our old mate and honorary jackass, magick al, said….
“do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law”
you say…
“let`s hope we`re on the side of good”
yes, fight the good fight.
if some lizard is ripping you off and conspiring against you,give him a good smack,for sure.
if it turns out the lizard was in the right and you were wrong,never mind,to err is human…
frank, if the honorary jackass magick al you refer to is Aleister Crowley,that is not really one who i would take advices from….one who says, “A white male child of perfect innocence and intelligence makes the most suitable victim”…..that is on the side of the enemy for me.
For the rest, thanks for your blessings! Now that i have the benediction of captain frank from the glorious pirate brigade of the orange flag from the magical 70′s,straight in 2012, now i can really go for my holy war!
youngman,
this is cap`n freewheeling frank,these days..
http://www.cathtatedirect.com/badge-card/walking-back-happiness
“Sannyas and Success in the World” can be an interesting thread.
Now when the Orchestra has stopped playing, musicians are counting their coins in the hat, it will be an interesting story how thousands of people who have spent their youth in the pursuit of a better and new world come back to the old world dominated by “greedy and ambitious mind”, modified to run the engine of the train boarded by 7 billion people.
Whereas Jesus got 12 uneducated, illiterate followers; it will be a doctoral study what thousands of educated westerners did for their sannyas and Osho..
Who knows , most of us are burning late night lamp for the bachelor´s degree in Enlightenment!
A proof that “East” and “West” sitting in the same boat, the same Handwriting:
http://freimaurer-wiki.de/index.php/Indien
Pandit Motilal Nehru and Brother, George VI. King of the United Kingdom & Emperor of India, Courtesy of “Masonic Life”
Guess they had little influence on Indian politics.
Isn’t the name “Agni V” not really a disgusting name for the Killingmachine of the masons in India.
I find this response way off target. Wasn’t the whole idea to be in the world but not of it? Osho wanted his sannyasins to take it to the market place and succeed there..success includes supporting oneself economically, not sponging off the welfare state and in turn becoming wholly dependent on the system.
I’ve noticed over the years that sannyasins who are failures in the world often try to compensate for that by imagining they are a success in the spiritual world…I’m above all that material stuff etc.
Today it is even more difficult to make one’s way in the world. We all have to deal with that. Why not take it as a challenge instead of imagining you are working on a bachelor’s degree in Enlightement? The idea that one can work towards enlightenment is bullshit and just another way for the ego to spin is web of illusion. The future does not exist so no need to work towards some imaginary enlightenment when life is hapening here and now.
What is your realisation of meditation/truth, just indifference… on the safe side, half-hearted, don’t take position?
Poor Hegel, Thess – Antithesis, all remain Pyramid
Lokesh,
What is a failure in the world? Some of your words remind me of Thatcher and Ayn Rand. We obviously have very different politics which made sannyas interesting. What about the non-sannyasin poor who seek spiritual solace? Same apply to them. Deluded? The poor on Bergen street who suffer humiliation and hardship? The future does exist for them. It is the Wayside Chapel where they can have a coffee and cake.. Their meeting place where they play chess. And, you’ll laugh, some pray in their own way and to a whole variety of deities.
‘Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter, Try again. Fail again. Fail Better.’ Thanks Samuel B.
Nothing fails like success….duh!
Preetam, Brick Mason, block mason or stone Mason; i see your admiration for these people. Do you know some of them personally, do you meet them or communicate with them regularly, have you got one of them as your life partner?
If not, if they are just the imprints from the books; then get a real mason Sutra…Books and toilet papers are made from the same stuff, former has little bit ink prints on them!
A pity more couldn’t say no!
The Fifth Dalai Lama gave the following instructions to repress Tibetan rebels in 1660.
‘Make the male lines like trees that have had their roots cut;
Make the female lines like brooks that have dried up in winter;
Make the children and grandchildren like eggs smashed against rocks;
Make the servants and followers like heaps of grass consumed by fire; …
In short, annihilate any traces of them, even their name.
‘Blood and Soil – A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to Darfur’ Ben Hiernan. The book is a thirty year study of genocide and crimes against humanity.
That’s the kind of hostility against humanity I despise so much. For me it has nothing to do with becoming identified or feeling hurt, even it maybe not meditative or Ego. It’s just an ethical question for me, in order to bringi it into account for Truth.
Greetz Agni V
Preetam,
Thanks, the guy who wrote the book has been working in this area for other thirty years. The other day I saw a recent award winning documentary titled ‘An Encounter with Simone Weil.’ You may know she came from a French/Jewish family who had these mystical experiences and became a catholic but refused to be baptised. One experience was after seeing peasant women in Portugal praying. She was dead by 34 and gave herself to the downtrodden. Camus meditated in her room before receiving the Nobel Prize for literature. He said she made Karl Marx look conservative. She wrote a lot which hasn’t been translated but she put her words into practice. President De Gaulle said, during the second world war, she was a genius but mad. I admire her because she wasn’t superficial. This philosopher, activist and mystic reminds me of certain women who have been overlooked when it comes to leading humanity. Jyoti seems like a nice person. I once became friends with a Catholic nun who did wonderful work in New Guinea helping people. I also greatly admire Aung San Suu Kyi.
‘Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity.’
‘Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity.’ I prefer money myself. You have my USB account number. Please pay attention and donate generously. Thank you.
Guru Shantam was caught commenting on Times of India on an editorial on sex
ultimately the other commenter screwed him badly!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/relationships/man-woman/5-Sex-secrets-every-woman-must-know/opinions/10006271.cms
press ctrl+f and type shantam
What a dumb idiot this one-eyed Tilopa can be?
That particular comment had 90 likes, 11 dislikes and 25 recommends.
I would have answered to those two or three who had reacted to my comment if they had the guts to write with their name and facebook profile.
Sex? That is the last thing Shree Shantam knows about, because he has never had any in his life. Much too busy crusading for lost causes. Forget about the Virgin Mary. We have Shree Shantam.
baba now where is your ‘egolessness’ ?
Who needs it?
Laziness carousel…
Let’s jump on the pink Neo Sannyas New Age carousel. It Starts moving, feels like not moving and nice lazy. By increasing speed all what isn’t within the carousel detract from clarity, even truth. Once in a while, it runs so fast an Individual is thrown out. Off the carousel realizing that nothing moves except the carousel and what does not belong to it. Time, Love, our Self, no move, the carousel moves. Truth does not move, seems really lazy.
Greetz Agni V
Preetam, have you been sniffing glue again?
No glue Lokesh, but maybe a bit much T3 today. Tell you the truth, it makes factual quite bubbly.
I’m an Airfix fan myself.
Lokesh,
Why so judgemental. Prone to exaggeration?
‘I too am not a bit tamed; I too am untranslatable,
I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world.’
Walt Whitman
Gibberish was pretty good in Buddha Hall. Everyone was in their own space sounding their barbaric yawp which raised the roof.
I’m sure you must have been in your element with reciting gibberish.
Lokesh,
I was! Did you know that scientists have just discovered that heavy metal music has an adverse effect on dogs? Isn’t it exciting.
Woof! Woof! (dogspeak for YES)
Mr. Tilopa has posted the below video in CaravanSerai. As the theme of this article is regarding secretary of Osho, the video clip of one of His well known secretaries can be part of this article…
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Complete and original version of the historic video, ” I Leave You My Dream”.
Watch it now before it is taken away by youtube, like many times in the past.
Another book on Osho! May interest some who haven’t come across it.
‘The Ultimate Iconoclast – Understanding Osho’s Revolutionary and Dangerous Ideas.’ by Dr.Kuldip Kumar Dhiman has just been published.
The author has published in a few interesting areas and his interests range from Vedanta to Freudian Psychoanalysis. I went to his website after seeing the book advertised on Osho World. Dhiman gives some background to writing the book. Some of the quotes he uses in his blurb are, ‘It is not that I am dangerous. It is the the truth that is dangerous’.
‘If you really want to know who I am, you have to be as empty as I am. Then two mirrors will be facing each other, and only emptiness will be mirrored…’
Could be an interesting read?
What has any of this to do with dear Jyoti and Walt Whitman blazing a path for us to follow? Now we have another book about Osho…yawn, by some old geezer who probably had little or no contact with him and Shantam requesting that we live someone’s dream, who was constantly trying to awaken us from the dream that we are…ehm…somebody. Time for a new thread. Come on you lazy lot or else I’ll have to take over the helm with something new to stir the pot. Now is your big chance what are you waiting on?
Lokesh,
Nice post. Apparently when Jesus Christ prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, the evening before his crucifixion, the apostles suffered from boredom and lethargy. Ever seen the old movie ‘The postman always rings twice’?
That’s hitting nail at the point.
Osho had no rules,no rituals so why bother following Osho?
I don’t understand some of the sannyasins.
Do they think it is a dream to not have a dream?
Just came across a statement about Facebook-”Before instituting any new policies, the company shares proposed changes with users, who then have a period of time to comment and ask questions.
In some cases, Facebook even puts issues up to a vote.”
The meditative, the aware Osho caretakers can learn something about this simple courtesy. During the last 10 years they and Syria´s boss have followed the same policy,” I know what is good. what is right”.
Dear Roman,
Thanks for mentioning The Ultimate Iconoclast. I just read the book, and it is great! We are selling it, if anyone is interested in buying a copy.
Love, Dhanyam
Ding dong! (bellspeak for YES)
Ok, I try to unburden, Lokesh.
Time of bet for the day. The reward again a sip gold, supplied within the Self: “It’s less as the smalest, yet greater than the Universum.”