Latest on Osho’s Will (from the Hindustani Times: 12th August)
Acting on a petition filed by a disciple of spiritual guru Osho Rajneesh, the Bombay high court on Friday said that the Pune police should try to trace and bring back the original will of the guru to India. Something of a tall order….
The petitioner, Yogesh Thakkar, had alleged that the existing will of Osho is a forged one. The division bench of Justice Naresh Patil and Justice Prakash Naik felt that in order to properly investigate the matter, the police should try and retrieve the original will to compare Osho’s signature on the purportedly forged will with his admitted signatures.
The bench also allowed the petitioner to join the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) and the Enforcement Directorate (ED) to as party respondents to the petition.
The petitioner alleged that the Koregaon police have not obtained the handwriting expert’s report yet although the FIR was registered on December 8, 2013 on the basis of complaint lodged by him. In the complaint, Thakkar had alleged that that the will, which surfaced 23 years after the spiritual guru’s death, was fake.
In his petition, Thakkar has also raked up the issue of Osho’s suspicious death on January 19, 1990. He claimed that those close to the guru did not let a doctor present there examine him but asked him to issue a death certificate.
In support of his claim, the petitioner has annexed an affidavit by Dr Gokul Gokani, who was present in the Osho ashram on the day of his death. Dr Gokani, who was Osho’s disciple since 1973, has stated that he was not allowed to see Osho before he died and was asked to issue his death certificate only after the spiritual guru had breathed his last.
Executioner of the will is dead but beneficiaries are very much alive. Court must direct them to present themselves for signature verification and if needed under police custody.
Police must get remand of Jayesh and Amrito, onus to prove whereabouts the original will lies on the beneficiary.
With the same set of circumstances and prima facie case of forgery, any jury in Britain would have blown the lid of pseudo-refinement.
While, Shantam, your self-important posturing is itself tainted by an over-enthusiastic wish to damn the two men as “beneficiaries” of the will – born, obviously, of the sort of personal bias that can itself make a mockery of due legal process.
Thus, the ‘anti-corruption’ zealot becomes just as corrupt as he imagines are the ones he deems criminals! A thoroughly unedifying spectacle indeed.
You need to rein yourself in, instead of ejaculating so prematurely.
.
You have no idea how Osho, His sannyasins and Indian corrupt political system has been misused by the Swami Sharks.
As far as you are concerned, Satyadeva, that you have not this much courage and integrity to write on an innocent site like Sannyasnews shows only one thing: conformists like you have no fire to deal with issues bigger than your own immediate interests. I don´t want to fit in your parameter.
I don´t think there is anyone more unbiased than me who is writing or is capable to write running commentary on the collective Sannyas organisation and its inner politics.
This is one reason Osho has not sent me to some other master, as Lokesh likes to repeat.
If one sees the scene and is not part of any grouping then evidence of seeing will be only authentic.
“I don´t think there is anyone more unbiased than me who is writing or is capable to write running commentary on the collective Sannyas organisation and its inner politics.
This is one reason Osho has not sent me to some other master, as Lokesh likes to repeat.
If one sees the scene and is not part of any grouping then evidence of seeing will be only authentic.”
These three sentences perfectly encapsulate the level of delusion you’re carrying inside your head, Shantam. As I’ve suggested before, look up ‘delusions of grandeur’ – that describes you.
It’s been crystal clear for years that you’re far from unbiased.
And as for Osho ‘orchestrating’ your affiliation so that you can comment on the Sannyas organisation, well, that sounds rather too close to psychosis, frankly. Just a deluded piece of claptrap typically found in certain types of characters who hang around spiritual movements.
You don’t see clearly at all, you have too much personal dissatisfaction with your lot, which you blame on the Resort regime, offloading your anger onto them – an easy way out. And you’re too thick – too inwardly blind – to see this. (And btw, this holds good, whatever they might have done or not done over there).
How many versions of Shantam are there? The one posting here today bears little resemblance to the one who wrote a few weeks ago about cutting down his comments on Resort management by 90%. One might view this as a mystery, but really it is not mysterious at all. Shantam is a crowd of voices speaking through the same mouth.
Shantam declares, “This is one reason Osho has not sent me to some other master.” I doubt that. How delusional can Shantam get? Keep reading SN and Shantam will keep you informed as his psychosis deepens.
Lokesh, have you the capacity to read writing on the wall? Can you read what is the theme of this String?
Theme is legal and political; how one can write Punja´s impact on Lokesh and Mouji and deeeeeeeeep silence when one is like depth of the ocean without any waves and Om Shanti Shanti?!
Hold on, Lokesh!
Hold on, Satyadeva too!
You are not only “pitiless”, as Tan stated the other day, passing that over to Shantam Prem, he shouldn ´t be surprised after all these years about re-actions. No (!), you seem to be (at least !) as obsessed and stuck in obsession as the latter.
The misuse of psycho-diagnostical terms, using it for a degrading fight, does not the slightest spur of good – as pretty much always – but turns stuff worse, much worse.
Any obsession, I heard say, but also found out myself, is due to traumatic experiences, the one or the other, and if that is not being taken care of, dysfunctional, irresponsible fights can go on and on and on, more so happening in chat rooms, where anonymity makes it even easier to stay stuck in the same-same rubbish for apparently ‘eternity’. Poisoning an energy field. Also affecting just onlookers and readers.
To look after oneself and take care of being able to respond again (to topics) or at least speak from our very own issues, addressing our traumas or frailties according to some topics lies (still) in the ´hands of the individuals, if the ´we´ space is not taken over yet by the alogorhythms and their often obnoxious play, leading to utterly stupid results.
As far as the latest topic is concerned, in its repetitive character of exchange, and also the exchanges here in the UK Sannyas realms, I am going to stay with the words I addressed to Kavita, December 2015:
” “As for me, if any team wins/loses, it shall always in any case be a loss.”
Yes, Kavita, I am with you with that and with the ‘Tears of a Clown’.”
Even though I know that my abilities to be a really good ‘Clown’ are close to zero. But I am practising…bowing down to you all a ´Sacred-Monday-Bow´, just as one of the spiritual entities crowding the Sannyas News ´Net´:
With these much too big shoes and a painted heart on my cheeks, and a big red nose…and what else….
Madhu
P.S:
And yes, Kavita: All the Best for everybody present Here-Now.
Madhu, perhaps you should re-read that post of Shantam’s, August 14, 10.09pm, specifically the last three paragraphs.
Is that the writing of a clear-sighted, balanced individual? Or is it filled with self-aggrandising fantasy, potentially or even actually bordering on the psychotic?
I find this and much of Shantam’s output offensively stupid (don’t you?) and I put to you that defending such self-indulgent foolishness in an apparent attempt to ‘protect a vulnerable, traumatised man’ is misreading him and therefore almost equally stupid.
Satyadeva,
I didn´t say that someone or something was balanced. Not at all. Neither Shantam s ongoing versions, nor pretty much everybody else’s versions of some topics. Especially re issues and topics carrying much traumatic stuff. (Which, I presume, hides pretty much always an individual and collective traumatic issue which, most of the time, is not addressed).
One is linked to the other. Always.
Healing, and starting to re-connect to one another in a human way, takes time and requires deliberate efforts from all sides involved. All – and yet individually.
How ´un-juicy´ that sounds…But it is the way it works, I guess.
Madhu
P.S:
Sometimes, by grace, some awareness opens, whereas other times – and that is horrible in my eyes – ongoing violence, ongoing perpetrating and further abuse on abuse on abuse is going on.
But there is a limit to take the latter, or even ´look at the latter (without commenting), isn´t there?
Madhu, it needs to be understood that Shantam is severely traumatized by the fact that he never actually met Osho, a man whom Shantam believes he is a torch-bearer for, upholding Osho’s legacy, fulfilling Osho’s vision etc.
Madhu, have you no compassion in your heart for poor Shantam and the suffering caused by the trauma and somehow trying to struggle against the fascistic forces of the axis of evil that is OIF, meanwhile struggling to merge the massive contradictions in his life, while delivering hot meals to the elderly, who he doubtless bathes in the love and compassion you obviously lack? One only need read the article from the previous thread, penned by Shantam in 20 frantic minutes, to see that the poor chap is in need of the kind of pychiatric treatment that bodhisatvas like myself and SD so selflessy provide on this online mental hospital called SN that Lord PM and co. provide without any payment whatsoever. Shame on you, woman. You are possesed by evil. Say 10 Hail Marys and your sin might be forgiven. If that does not do the trick I suggest self-flagellation, in order to purge your inner demons, while chanting out demons out, out demon out
Shantam, you write:
“As far as you are concerned, Satyadeva, that you have not this much courage and integrity to write on an innocent site like Sannyasnews shows only one thing: conformists like you have no fire to deal with issues bigger than your own immediate interests. I don´t want to fit in your parameter.”
What a silly accusation to make. The fact is, Shantam, up to now I haven’t been moved to write any sort of article, but if I were then it wouldn’t be a problem.
As for calling me a ‘conformist’, well, in that case, you’re a Pot and I’m a Kettle…So once again you’re betrayed by your own self-blindness (unless you think I and everyone else here is fooled by your nonsense).
Your self-declared concern for what you like to term “wider issues” is basically just self-interest masquerading as ‘public-spirit’, significant aspects of which are attempting to reconstitute your ‘golden’ (in your eyes) past by approximately recreating its former outer conditions, while in the process hopefully taking revenge on those whom you deem – absolutely wrongly – of having screwed up your life.
So what exactly is the accusation here?
I remember reading a few years ago that this Dr. Gokani had claimed that Amrito and Jayesh were there with Osho’s body when he was called in to write the death certificate, and when he asked what he was told what the cause of death, he was told to “just put anything”, or to “put heart failure.”
This Dr. Gokul had also claimed that he noticed that there was some vomit on Osho’s gown, that had not been cleaned off.
What is he trying to insinuate?
Is he trying to suggest that euthanasia could have played a part in Osho’s death?
Osho certainly spoke in favour of euthanasia if someone had ‘lived a full life’ or if the physical suffering had become unbearable.
Osho certainly was in a lot of pain, and it was clear in the 80s several times that he was ‘ready to go’, that the pull of the Beyond, of final dissolution, was very strong for him.
Did he ask Amrito to finish it off?
Or is the accusation more sinister, does this Dr Gokul try to suggest that Osho was murdered by Amrito and Jayesh?
Is he a disciple of that Ozen Rajneesh fellow?
SS enquires, “So what exactly is the accusation here?”
I am not 100% sure, but it might be the case that you are a reincarnation of Rip Van Winkle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VWI3DP5NHA
This latest published video report, ‘Last five hours of Osho’, by reputed Hindi channel is in Hindi. For the English-speaking friends, I have translated two important minutes where Neelam is speaking. It is from 10.45 till 12.45 of Video minutes. Please watch these two minutes to feel the energy of Neelam.
The transcript is as follows:
“When you came to know, Osho is no more?”
“It was 5:00-5:15, Jayesh, who is the chairman of Inner circle (I am also member of the Inner Circle) his secretary came and informed there is urgent meeting of Inner Circle, you all get assembled. We all gathered at 5:30, that time Jayesh and Amrito came and they said, “Osho has left the body.”
Naturally, it was a shocking news for all of us. We were 21 people. How this all happened? They said, “There is no time to discuss this. We will talk later.”
At 11:35 minutes of video:
“Osho´s last wish was “Take me to Buddha hall for 10 minutes and cremation should happen today.”
At 12.00 minutes of video (very important. I think she is saying for the first time on record):
“I was asked to tell Osho´s mother. I said, “My wish is to have the darshan of Osho´s body.” They said, “From the distance, have a look, but you go to tell Osho´s mother. She may have the wish too to have a darshan. Bring her.”
So I went to tell Osho´s Mataji.”
“Was she in the ashram?”, asks journalist.
“Yes, she was in the ashram. I went and told her, “Ma, Osho has left the body.” Immediately, she cried with pain. From her mouth came, “Inhone Maar Dala, Neelam; Inhone Maar Dala.” (“These people killed him, Neelam. These people killed him.”).
I told her, “Ma, this is not the time to blame anyone.”
“So I went to tell Osho´s Mataji.”
From her mouth came, “Inhone Maar Dala, Neelam; Inhone Maar Dala.” (“These people killed him, Neelam. These people killed him.”).”
So this is a suggestion here that Osho`s mother felt that `they` had killed him?
The general belief at the time in Poona was that Osho had been murdered by the US authorities.
Ma Shunyo, in her book, ‘Diamond Days With Osho’, describes a scene when Osho had just left the body, and she meets Maneesha, outside Lao Tzu house, and Maneesha was crying, “They`ve won, they`ve won” (“they” being the US government).
How do you that Mataji wasn`t referring to the US government when she came out with this?
Same occurred to me, SS, and it’s an obvious point. (Or Osho’s mother could have been another harbouring resentment towards ‘The Regime’).
But of course, Shantam views the case in a totally dispassionate, unbiased way, so he must be right, mustn’t he?!
I could be wrong, but it was the American govt. who initially gave the slow poison & then eventually Osho told/commissioned Dr. Amrito to do the needful. It’s a clear case of euthanasia.
I think Osho told his doctor and close disciples to do everything really and all they could say was “Yes, Bhagwan.”
Indians trying to blame them for certain things (whilst he was embodied) is clearly nonsensical.
Yes, I agree totally with you on this, SS.
Was Osho’s mum on drugs at the time?
You senile, uneducated man, do you know in life there is something called decorum?
Its other synonyms are civility, correctness, decency, demeanour, gentility, courteousness.
You bookworm, go to some ashram again to learn the etiquette how respectfully one speaks about mother of the master. And I am not saying, she must be Virgin Mary.
Oooooh! Shantam is the dignified gentleman, protector and defender of Osho’s mum.
Difference between us is that I used to work in Osho’s parents’ house and had personal contact with them.
They were a lovely old couple. Very normal Indian family, who could not believe their good fortune in the sense their son became a successful career guru, who provided a comfortable house for them to chat with friends and family and sing bajans etc.
Your problem here, Shantam, is that you can’t take a joke. I find this whole Osho’s will a joke, and not a very good one at that..
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
The western baboons know nothing of the decorum that those born on the hallowed and browned turf of mighty Bhorat know!
Tell them how we solve serious religious problems in our glorious religion!
Does one`s heart not swell with pride and one’s chuddies bulge with the hardness of the day before yesterday`s chapattis to behold such heroism such as this in the holiest of holies?
Yahoo!
Wahe guru!
Wacky guru!
This is how baboons should be dealt with!
Lokesh, without taking things as joke, I would not have taken everything in a lighthearted way as you are doing.
I will say, in certain situations, as an Indian it is my right to be offended.
Osho´s will may be joke for you, I take it as a serious breach of trust, criminal offence and killing one of the rarest spiritual experiments by turning Banyan tree into Bonsai!
Shantam, you are with the wrong dead guru. Osho ridiculed all the holy of holies in India because he understood that so much of it was a joke. Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Sai Baba and all the rest of them.
I say, “Was Osho’s mum on drugs at the time?” and you throw a fit and come away with the following, “You senile, uneducated man, do you know in life there is something called decorum?” There is something you are completely missing and it has nothing to do with decorum. It has to do with taking yourself far too seriously.
Yogi puts it better than I can:
“Does one`s heart not swell with pride and one’s chuddies bulge with the hardness of the day before yesterday`s chapattis to behold such heroism such as this in the holiest of holies?”
Shantam the hero. Makes me think of the Poona One Tee shirt that said, “Don’t be a hero, be a zero.”
Lokesh,
And yet for all your blather, in response to the response to this, the remark is still cheap and adolescent.
Or to put that another way, Lokesh, your remark about the mother of Osho and drugs is cheap and adolescent.
Even if Osho`s mother was not talking about the US ‘agents’ and somehow had a ‘feeling’ that Osho had been killed by his doctor or one of his inner circle, and even if this was the case, it is still highly likely that this would have taken place under Osho`s specific instructions.
Wasn`t Osho talking about leaving his body a lot on the Ranch? Even talking about injecting himself with a combination of drugs, according to one of the testimonials of someone in Jesus Grove.
Sheela`s words cannot be trusted, but she reported eavesdropping on a conversation between Amrito and Osho, where Amrito agrees to provide the drugs so that Osho can leave his body. That was her rationalisation for attempting to murder Amrito.
This makes sense to me, Shanti.
For some reason, most Indians just can’t believe that Osho would contemplate euthanasia, but he is on record a number of times saying he believed in it.
That’s my feeling too.
Most Indians are probably conditioned to believe that masters can leave their bodies, at will. Lethal drugs would be out of the question. On the other hand, maybe Osho did just ‘leave his body’ deliberately on Jan 19th and there were no drugs involved.
I’ve seen that there is a tendency amongst some Indians who dislike the current Poona management to try to blame Osho’s poor health and sometimes his alleged later drug use on his close western disciples.
Osho may have been introduced to coca-cola, laughing gas by his dentist and valium to help him sleep when he had back pain, but it undoubtedly would have been old Osho who insisted on having more.
Apparently, one time on the world tour Vivek tried to stop someone from giving Osho Diet Coke by pretending they had run out, and after this incident he only drank diet coke every day.
If Osho had trouble sleeping and his doctor gave him a couple of pills (as it has been alleged) it would have been Osho who enjoyed it and asked for more. Amrito would have just chirped, “Yes, Bhagwan”.
“I was never sick before I became enlightened; I was perfectly healthy. People were jealous of my health. But after enlightenment, suddenly I found that the body had become so delicate that doing anything became impossible. Even going for a walk — and I was running before that, four miles in the morning, four miles in the evening, running, jogging, swimming. I was doing all kinds of things…
But after enlightenment, suddenly and very strangely, the body became absolutely weak. And it is almost unbelievable — I could not believe it, my father’s sister’s family, who I was staying with, could not believe it. It was more of a surprise to them because they knew nothing about enlightenment. I suspected there was some connection but they had no idea what had happened: all the hairs on my chest became white, just in one night! And I was twenty-one!
I could not hide it — because it is a hot country, India, and I used to only have on a wrap-around lunghi the whole day, so my chest was always naked. So everybody in the house became aware of this and was wondering what had happened. I said, “I myself am wondering what has happened.” I knew that the body had certainly lost its stamina. It had become fragile, and I lost my sleep completely.
I have been asked again and again why Ramakrishna died of cancer. I know why he died of cancer: he must have become absolutely vulnerable to any disease. And if it was only Ramakrishna we could think it was just an exception; but Maharshi Raman also died of cancer. That looks strange, that within one hundred years two enlightened people of the highest order died of cancer. Perhaps they lost all resistance to disease.
I can understand from my own situation, I lost all resistance to diseases. I had never suffered from what you call allergies. I loved perfume so much, and I had never suffered because of it. I had beautiful flowers in all my houses where I lived; and India has such flowers I think no other country has — with great fragrance…
There are plants, for example a certain flower, ‘queen of the night’ — you can have just one plant, and the whole house will be full of fragrance; and not only your own house, the neighbouring houses too will be full of fragrance. And there are many other flowers — champa, chameli, juhi — which are immensely full of fragrance. I always had those flowers around me, and I never suffered from any allergy.
But after enlightenment I became so allergic that just the body-smell of somebody was enough to give me a cold, the sneezes; and the sneezes triggered something in my chest. I started coughing, and coughing triggered another process; I started having asthma attacks which were absolutely unknown to me. I had never thought that these things would happen to me.
But I was aware of what was happening. My consciousness and my body had fallen apart; the connection became very loose. The body’s resting became impossible, and when you have not rested for many days, then you become vulnerable to all kinds of infections. You are so tired, you cannot resist. And if for years you cannot have any rest, then naturally you lose all resistance…
My feeling is that because enlightenment is the last lesson of life, there is nothing more to learn, you are unnecessarily hanging around. You have learnt the lesson — that was the purpose of life — so life starts losing contact with the person. And most of these people have died immediately; the shock was so much. And death is not a calamity to them; it is a blessing, because they have attained whatsoever life was to give.
But to live after enlightenment is really a difficult affair. The most important thing is that one loses contact with his inactive mind, and it becomes impossible to have any contact. The moment you are silent, immediately the energy moves to your transcendental awareness.
You are aware, even when you are doing something, saying something. The flame is not that strong, because your energy is involved in some activity. But when you are not doing anything, then suddenly the whole energy immediately shifts to the highest point. It is tremendously blissful, it is great ecstasy, but only for consciousness, not for the body.”
Thanks, Shanti.
A good contribution to the debate, and though I don’t say it often, a good choice of Osho quote!
Yes, a good quote, Swamishanti.
However, I can´t really figure out what kind of ‘twisting’ many different twists are going on here these days in the UK SN chat room.
Seems quite a globalized virus has invaded the topic, where people are talking about stuff they don´t know about – but only by gossipping on and on.
Those who have been present amongst the inner circle in India, Pune, don´t write here and, I guess, they don´t read either.
Wondering about those, distributing gossip extensively about stuff they have no relating to in their very own life, and what might be their concern or business to do so?
Madhu
Here`s another ‘twist’ to add to the room, perhaps you may feel to do a little jig too:
https://youtu.be/ohql4weWrqk
As far as the Inner Circle members are concerned, some of them do read this stuff here sometimes, believe it or not, perhaps between a burger and a White Robe Brotherhood session or two.
I remember reading Anando`s post here a while back, and Devageet used to write here.
Well, seems the Bombay High Court is really enjoying this case more than anyone else!
It certainly seems to be and I think it is natural, if High Court judge is enjoying Swamis v/s Swamis case.
Most of the High Court judges are in the age group of 50-60 years. During their student years or early law practice years they must have heard about Osho Bhagwan Acharya Rajneesh and the news clippings. Few also may have read one or two Osho books and found out, “What is new? Everything is said in Geeta centuries ago!”
The judge must be chuckling inside or feeling sorry for that great master whose disciples have produced ten rupees stamp paper to prove who is the right custodian of intellectual property rights and control over immovable property left behind by him. It is surely rags to riches story gone wrong somewhere.
Judge will also think, “Is this the way meditators act?” If Judge is nationalistic, he may be even thinking, “If it is a forgery by foreigners, I am going to hold them from their balls.”
“The judge must be chuckling inside or feeling sorry for that great master whose disciples have produced ten rupees stamp paper to prove who is the right custodian of intellectual property rights and control over immovable property left behind by him. It is surely rags to riches story gone wrong somewhere.
Judge will also think, “Is this the way meditators act?” If Judge is nationalistic, he may be even thinking, “If it is a forgery by foreigners, I am going to hold them from their balls.”
No, Shantam, that’s what YOU’RE thinking and wanting – you’re jumping the gun once again.
You can barely suppress your excitement, can you? Your whole current tone suggests you feel as if all your Christmases have come at once (or soon will).
Reading this and others of your recent posts I’m reminded of a fox-hunting hound yelping as it rushes towards its prey, anticipating such a juicy kill.
Thoroughly unedifying stuff.
Judge maybe nationalist or not, but it is very evident that Masters don’t make a Will.
Kavita, would you say that a master not leaving a will has to do with a lack of willpower, or just a simple case of mistaken cosmic identity when it comes to such mundane worldly matters, the master understanding we are all one and therefore it does not matter who gets the lolly?
Lokesh, none of the above, it is more about being in a choiceless state.
Kavita,
Your contributions to the thread here I do feel the most possible expressed heart-connection to, and your response to Lokesh at 2.00 am gifted me to relate and otherwise to a memory since a long time not ´as ever present´ recalled.
In January, 1990, I had rented a room in a house on Popular Heights, very close to the burning ghats, on some upper floor. The very day and night of the 19th (that we are trying to speak about here) I spent with the thousand of fellow-travellers and lovers, whom I long time hadn’t seen so close and yet had been connected to all the time.
There was this utter Silence underneath all this singing, chanting, dancing, exchanging rarely a few words, that I was yearning for. When, in the very early morning, I returned to my flat and my room and lay down, I was captured by the sound of OM happening as human heavenly voices and then turning into something similar to the astrophysic recordings I came to know and listen to much, much later.
These days I quite often listen to a contemporary living spiritual Teacher talking about what a differences that makes, ´realising´ something and ´embodying´ some realisation (and the latter can take lifetimes, not only He is saying this).
The gratitude for some recall, which is ever present, Kavita, I owe to you in particular today. And your remark of ´choicelessness´ was a ´gold nugget´ to ease some pain I was in these days in reading here, not really finding a way ´out´.
With Love,
Madhu
Good for you, Madhu
A choiceless state. Makes me think of being in hospital after an unfortunate accident.
Yes, you’re right, Lokesh,that’s what it seems, at least in this case.
Lokesh has written:
“Shantam, you are with the wrong dead guru. Osho ridiculed all the holy of holies in India because he understood that so much of it was a joke. Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Sai Baba and all the rest of them.”
Lokesh, I am in love with Osho´s creation: His commune and His people. I am also in love with his oratory. But I don´t think I have that much expectations from dead Osho that he will help me in life or after death.
I have contemplated over this for long time. First of all, it is a soothing idea that some higher entity is up there in the below freezing atmosphere, taking care of their faithful ones. If it is really so, my choice will be as follows: Bhagwan Rama, Jesus Christ, Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh. If they are unavailable, then surely Osho.
About Osho ridiculing others:
I must say, first, you, me and others must create this much standing to be on that level. By wearing magician´s hat one does not become magician. Osho has dropped all the names given by others. You are still holding a name from borrowed culture. Be a Man first and chalk your own course.
Not a bad post, Shantam. You say, “You are still holding a name from borrowed culture.” True to a point. I am known by about half a dozen names. Even my given name is borrowed from other cultures. My first name is Celtic, my middle name is Roman and my surname is French. So what?
Osho gave people new names. The idea, apart from Osho being allowed to adopt a name-giving role that normally belongs to parental authoritarianism, was that it was a symbolic break with the past, a new beginning. At the time I was given my sannyas name it suited me perfectly, because I was finished with the past and desiring something new, fresh, healthier.
Shantam, you often make a point about declaring that you are a Sikh. This signifies a couple of things to me. First, it sounds stupid, coming from a sannyasin. How would it sound to you if I kept writing on SN about how I am a Protestant Christian? Ridiculous, because it is ridiculous.
The second thing, your affirming repeatedly that you are a Sikh indicates that you might have been given a new name but never really used it for the intended reason, an opportunity to make a clean break with your past.
You close with the following: “Be a Man first and chalk your own course.” This statement is open to interpretation. What would you suggest I do with this piece of vague advice. Be like you?
That said, it is a year now since we met and still fresh in my mind. I enjoy giving you a good battering here on SN and I have a good laugh when you call me a “senile, uneducated man”. I believe that we both understand that it is all good, clean/dirty fun. One of Osho’s great ideas was that it is perfectly correct to enjoy ourselves in all the myriad forms human enjoyment can take without harming others. I would never wish any harm.
Take care, amigo.
If the benefit of Sannyasnews experiment can be replicated in Osho´s main property, I am sure Osho and his work will look a tall pyramid rather than a pile of books.
Howsoever we take opposite stand and even use insulting language sometimes, there is an undercurrent of love and caring. None of us will bar other person´s entry into a real campus.
If it is really Leela, Leela, life is just a play, why some chosen few should remain on the wicket even when ball has hit the stumps many times? It cannot be ‘No Ball’ all the time.
I have written “senile uneducated man” to prove some point, but Lokesh, you know my opinion about you is different. Same is with Arpana, Satyadeva, Madhu, who provoke me many times mercilessly and I use rash words for them.
Madhu, we are not in a stage-managed fight. I feel we are holding each other as fellow-travellers, though I am not too much sentimental about New Man, Buddhafield, Fellow-Travellers etc.
Hopefully, regime will change in Pune and I will have the role to play. My first project as part of management team will be to build or rent an apartment block for Senior Sannyasins. We all want to meet and chat, share and meditate from time to time. So why not to create an opportunity?
If one is not a group junkie, in 700 euros a month one can live comfortably in Pune. I am sure, all of Osho people can afford two months a year in Pune.
Shantam says, “My first project as part of management team will be to build or rent an apartment block for Senior Sannyasins.”
I understand the sentiment. Thing is that Poona is a dirty Indian city. This alone would make it very unattractive for elderly people, even if Osho’s ashes are in the hood. If that kind of project is going to happen it will happen in Corfu. A lot of good, creative sannyasins are setting up camp there. I recently heard North-West Corfu described as Poona 4.
By all accounts, Corfu is a beautiful island with a friendly local populace. Sounds good. Maybe you could check out Corfu, Shantam, and make a wee report here on SN. Just think, no evil tyrants to battle, just good vibes, meditation, dance and all the things that make life worth living.
“If one is not a group junkie, in 700 euros a month one can live comfortably in Pune.” (Shantam)
If you make a long-term (one year) rental, a two bedroom house on Corfu can be had for 400 to 700 Euros/month.
http://corfuhomerentals.com/PropertyListings1.html
Really? How to contact this paradise?
“Hopefully, regime will change in Pune and I will have the role to play. My first project as part of management team will be to build or rent an apartment block for Senior Sannyasins.”
Reckon you might be jumping the gun five times over, Shantam.
First, there’s no guarantee at all that the regime will change anytime soon.
Second, what makes you think you’ll be invited to play a senior role?
Third, even if you were, such a building project would require the support of other management, which is not certain.
Fourth, as Lokesh indicates, polluted Pune is not at all an attractive destination in which to spend even part of one’s later years.
Fifth, many non-Indians might well not be interested in living over there under a local-based regime anyway.
I appreciate you mean well, of course, but in practical terms you’re way ahead of yourself and of external circumstances. It seems the scent of what you would term ‘victory’ is in your nostrils, but in your excitement you seem to be confusing what you would like to happen with actual realities.
My advice would be to desist from yapping away like that until things are genuinely settled. Which could still take a very long time, if indeed any significant change happens at all.
Reminds me of someone declaring they’ve just come across a betting service that will “definitely” make them £50,000 in the next 3 years, starting from a £100 ‘bank’. Even if the first 2 months’ results are very good, there’s still a very long way to go…
And, as the statutory warning always says, “Past results are not a guarantee of future winnings”.
P.S:
That “someone” was me, a couple or so weeks ago!
In such situations it’s just good sense to contain one’s expectations (both within and to others) and remember that nothing is certain (except death and taxes).
A celebration of death:
https://youtu.be/J7Jlltmqckc
Swamishanti, can you type the last sentence spoken by Osho in this clip?
Apt cartoon from Satyaloka !
It may be true or not, years ago someone told the linguistic meaning hidden in Osho´s signature calligraphy. During the early years, when he used to write letters to the attracted seekers, it was signed as रजनीश के प्रणाम – Rajneesh Ke Parnam. It means greetings from Rajneesh. The same wording written in a calligraphic way became signature art.
On the affidavit, in a hurriedly typed drafting, it is written “Osho” and signatures are still the same as during the phase of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.
Moreover, the three signatures on the second page look like from the same pen. Has someone ever seen the executioner of the will signing with marker pen? And this was signed in the presence of two advocates. Surely corrupt assholes.
Is it not crazy, woman who was closest to Osho all these years was not asked to be present during Signature Ceremony?
My impression is because of the the criminal control of two alpha males, delicate flower in the wind took overdose.
Last month, I was discussing this theme with two friends on naturist lake. One of them said, “Just like in the movies, one can say, the villain gave the order, “Crown witness must be eliminated.”
I think these Judges must be having a joke at the expense of Shantam’s friends.
Do you imagine a couple of Pune policemen going to Madrid and trying to extract the original will from Osho International or anyone else there? Sounds like pushing the case into an absurd corner, which must fail.
Maybe the Judges know that, and think the whole matter is, as I do, a little silly. Certainly the sight of a couple of Pune policemen going to Madrid, not a town known for its efficiency in my experience…
Anyway, perhaps they can pay Lokesh, who has excellent Spanish, to go along as interpreter, and we can get a first-hand report so we can make it into a sketch!
I must say the scenario has already given me a quiet chuckle.
PM, my Spanish isn’t that good, but it is good enough to get things lost in translation to the extent that Osho left everything to me, me, me…oh…I almost forgot – and ten rupees to Shantam.
Here is a wee tune to listen to, while waiting on the outcome of the Osho’s Will scandal.
https://soundcloud.com/luke-mitchell/guru-guru
McLoke,
Cool! I enjoyed ‘Tomorrow Never Comes’ and “Who’s Got The Weed’ as well.
Need to hear the rest. XXX
Nice tune…
I reckon it could be the new theme tune to East-Eastenders….
Enjoyed that, Lokie.
Good. ‘Tomorrow Never Comes’ has been a bit of a hit. I reached the download limit ages ago because I do not pay for my Soundcloud account.
Does anyone know what the limits are for using Osho’s voice on a recording? If there were no restrictions I could make a lot more like ‘Tomorrow’.
Shantam sounds lucid and perfectly reasonable.
I don’t think Osho would approve of current facilitation at Pune which appears to be the blind leading the blind, to my open eyes.
Really happy to see unqualified egotistical psychoanalysis exposing Shantam’s critics as frauds.
Entertaining thread.
“If one sees the scene and is not part of any grouping then evidence of seeing will be only authentic.”
Nice!
Tell us about your experiences at the Poona ashram, Bong.
Arpana, Is it not fair to tell one´s experience first before asking the other? Self-interrogation is what makes the difference between seeker and the police.
Not necessarily, Shantam. Especially, if the other has already made a contentious remark or two, as in this case.
And your own “self-interrogation” skills could do with a fair bit of fine-tuning, don’t you think?
Bong, quoting Shantam, says:
” “If one sees the scene and is not part of any grouping then evidence of seeing will be only authentic.”
Nice!”
Might sound “nice”, but not necessarily true at all. Depends how much insight the perceiver has into his/her own personal bias, which is invariably determined by emotional factors, conscious or otherwise.
As this is an area in which Shantam tends to be deficient, I’m afraid he is not a reliable witness or commentator.
As evidently, Mr Bong, neither are you.
Seems Bong and Shantam are one…I suspect foul play here….
Jealous little old man who has not contributed any writing of any worth thinks Shantam will plant some supporter.
This happens when Buddha is no more, Sangha is no more and Dharma is only in imagination. In such situations people lose any sense of fair play and balance.
Shantam has a supporter on the bong.
“This happens when Buddha is no more, Sangha is no more and Dharma is only in imagination ”
Sangha and Dharma were always in imagination.
Buddha was already “no more”.
He is a hollow bamboo, the ultimate reality.
“If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him.”
So the saying goes.
Sorry, folks, that`s nae a monster – just a large Haggis, together with this year`s brood, swimming to the Winter grazing grounds in the Highlands, where the most nourishing and succulent Heather grows. By Hogmanay, they will be plump, round and heavy, fit for the Laird’s table. This year’s hunting and trapping quotas are up, thanks to mild weather, a successful breeding programme, and good husbandry and management.
MOD: WHAT DOES THIS REFER TO, Arpana, PLEASE? IS IT EVEN YOUR OWN POST?
I was trying to make Bong feel at home, by talking pothead bollocks to him.
What a ridiculously silly post. First parag. is not worth a comment, except to say that Shantam always tends to go off the rails when he knows, at some level, there’s truth in others’ statements about him.
The second is sheer bullshine – apart from the last sentence which applies perfectly to Shantam himself, of course!
Bong says, “Shantam sounds lucid and perfectly reasonable.”
Well, at least he has the right name.
I would like to take this opportunity to quote the words from MC Fifty Paisa`s flow: “The sound of one man rapping” from the “Get enlightened or die tryin`” album…
“Big Bhagdaddy with the bling-bling`s gone
He sang his song and moved right along
Now you scraping at his empty bong
Looking for scraps you can fly upon.”
LOL!!! Thank you all for your responses. I laughed more reading them than I did in Pune! Shantam and I are one? Foul play in the will? Are we not all One? I doubt Shantam is in China. Give him some credit. It is a wonderful day to be alive. Bong in on.
There is an African saying which is:
Be careful when a naked person offers you a shirt.
“Be careful when a naked person offers you a shirt.”
On the basis of this one can create Sannyas saying,
“Be careful when a mind-oriented person wants to teach ways of the heart.”
Hey Bong.
Be carefull, I heard that you can get ten years just for having a blim under your fingernail in China.
https://youtu.be/Tayb7hSGMco
I really don´t know who this Bong is, one of the readers of Snews who has taken the courage to write something, though in a sneaky, faceless way.
Bong, cherish the feeling to be Alive and try to write with right name.
I have not this much desire to get some credit from fellow writers. Friction of thoughts is wonderful.
http://www.oshoadvaitacentre.com/Osho_Advaita_Centre/Home.html
This place has been mighty quiet. Why not let the older friends of Osho move in there?
What is the story behind this place anyway…from 2009 till today? (Last update in 2011).
Not impressed.
Bong, checked it out. Looks like somebody had a dream and it faded with time.
Well said, Lokesh.
Rent a small house and call it Buddhafield.
Typical sannyas dream bursts like bubble.
Plans are already in place for when IS (Indian Sannyas) takes over at the Resort and installs Shantam as a VIP-in-chief (Village Idiot Punjab).
The Multiversity will be offering a series of new spiritual therapy courses under the umbrella of ‘Wisdom of Mighty Bhorat’, based on the wisdom that beloved Shantam has gathered on his life-journey.
1. The Fischer/Hoffman/Bakri/Chowdary Process
Learn how to defraud a foreign social security system whilst campaigning for IS, inciting hatred for western baboons, alcoholics, corrupt western alpha males who have corrupted our glorious religion; and how to campaign the future re-instalment of a perfect religious order from the past.
Incorporates module: ‘From Zero to Hero’. Outlining how to abuse the pinko-lefty sentiments of reasonable liberal democrats and getting tons of unwarranted attention by writing incessant rubbish on their websites.
2. Getting In Touch With The Watcher
A foundation course in Japanese Zen Porn.
Learn all the skills from the master beta-male himself from how to handle your zen stick right up to how to have marathon seshins on the mat next to your computer.
3. Studies in the Chuddy Sutra: The Sikh art of Love
Includes all the techniques and time-honoured chat-up lines from this glorious tradition.
“Is that a kirpan in my chuddies or am I just pleased to see you?”
“I am a Sikh.n I am a man.”
“You want cheap apartment?”
And finally spend 25 years on the zen koan:
‘The sound of one hand flapping.
4. The Art of Dying
How to ensure that despite taking neo-sannyas, you are dispatched from this world in the time-honoured traditions of your glorious forefathers wearing 400 year-old underwear.
5. From Meditation to Medication
Reconnect with the 5000 year-old Vedic wisdom of Soma, now rediscovered by Roche in the West in the form of Prozac. All your problems dissolve, apart from a few and they are obviously someone else`s fault.
6. Neo-Latihan
Just sit at computer, get angry at heartless baboons who are stuck in mind and are destroying holy religion, thrash about and blurt out absolutely anything that comes into your head.
It does not matter what language it is or even if it is a language that does not exist or it is just nonsense and no one understands a word of, just let it out. You will feel better.
7. Bhorati creative writing course
Learn to mix metaphors in non-export quality Bajaj cement mixer with faulty wiring with random detritus from all 7 chakras mashed up in old chuddies with amma’s chapatis and bottom-wiping flannel and remember the words of mystic poet Kabab of Jullundur:
“In the matter of words it does not matter if the underpants are outside the trousers.”
You’ve absolutely surpassed yourself, Frank.
Probably your best effort ever, and one hundred percent correct.
Keep up the good work, lad.
Yes, no team of experts required – that’s Shantam’s Will, definitely.
Frank, a genius. Large version.
Vellee funee, Franco. Makes me think of the Ozen gang down in the Yucatan. How come they do not show up anymore? I miss them terribly. Bring back the funneez!
Lokesh, you think Rajneesh people will ever write again at sannyasnews? Unless provoked, they will ignore. In a village, those who have work to do ignore the group of loafers smoking chillum!
Frank boy, you are surpassing Yogi, are you both in competition?
Great post! How can one not be laughing? Even in this horrible weather!
You are killing two birds in one stone…
What a fucking mind you have…brilliant!
“How can one not be laughing?”, you ask, Tan, when you were finished with the reading you refer to.
Must be again one of these points where we don´t meet, Tan.
Madhu
Come on, Madhu, it is hilarious!
I’ve read it about 10 times, and I really laugh every time. My fave one now is number 3, it was number 6 before and I am changing….XX
Absolutely brilliant indeed, Tan Tan.
Frank’s a genius.
Frank, that might just about be worth a return visit! I dare say you might be avoiding the http://www.oshoadvaitacentre.com/Osho_Advaita_Centre/Home.html directed question though.
Have you considered visiting New Zealand to check it out?
Bong,
No, I haven`t, and tbh, I would rather have my tongue beaten thin with a steak tenderiser and stapled to the floor of an indian toilet with a rusty croquet hoop.
Come on, Frank boy, don’t be so harsh!
We all from SN could meet there! Would be fun! XX
Oh, I have been there, it is amazing…Just outside Nelson, over the hill from Golden Bay. Silke owns it…with her Romanian boyfriend, Sakshin.
Really nice dog too – Leela. Lol, I wrote a song about her (Leela is the dog of the day) – she liked it.
Just a gorgeous land and perfect weather.
Faceless Frank is a genius. Alas, he had a face too.
I read this article today and this was my response…Perhaps relevant…
https://www.thequint.com/india/2016/08/24/was-osho-killed-7-haunting-questions-return-after-26-years
In my own experience Jayesh & Amrito would do anything for Osho.
And that they loved him totally within their capacity, both clear and egoic.
A doctor was not called because Amrito belongs to the Royal College of Physicians in England and knew Osho’s health like his own pulse and the other Doctor being Indian could sign the death certificate after all the best care on the planet had been given.
In multiple books Osho talks about the value of burning the body immediately after death to cut any remaining ties with what is departing…
In all my years in Pune, bodies were burned as soon as possible to celebrate the mystery of death.
As far as the will…
It is possible it is a forgery if in fact the signature is an exact duplicate… the article writer conveniently does not tell us which book cover it is a copy of or show the original so that one can judge for oneself if it is a copy.
Furthermore it sounds like all the analysts said it was a photo copy because they were given a photocopy of the will.
I have met many clever sanyasins from India that are only too willing to demonize Osho’s closest confidants to exert their own power games.
Osho’s books are available on the book shelves of every book shop on the planet because of how Jayesh manages the estate.
Jayesh is a Canadian millionaire many times over already upon his own merit. Osho talks himself in one talk about Amrito’s journey to gain entry to the Royal College of Physicians in England as the youngest member in its history and that he had to do so in order to fulfil one of the clauses upon his father’s will to receive his substantial inheritance…
There is no foundation for this morons allegations of foul play.
Osho was a great visionary that knew very well what sort of baboons would come lurking after his death to subvert his intention and vision.
He picked the most devoted disciples to share his vision…because they were extremely devoted to him and his well being in every way.
Amrito himself was poisoned for his fervent devotion and trustworthiness for Osho.
Furthermore his mother was referring to the commonly held belief among sanyasins that Osho was poisoned by thulium radiation while in custody in the USA…
Not some radical conspiracy by his closest friends for a cash grab.