The Pune Property and the Battle for the Soul of Neo-Sannyas

Frank and Swami Rockefeller Shanti discuss the struggle for control over the ashram/Resort in Pune.
(N.B: Apologies for poor lay-out, due to Word Press issues)
Frank writes:
There is a battle raging for control over the ashram/Resort in Pune.
The proposed sale of 3 acres of the property has sparked the most serious skirmish in what has by now been quite a long war.
The opposition, who in a bizarre twist seem to have given a platform to Sheela and also seek to involve the Indian Government, most notably with their letters to Premier Narendra Modi, are pushing hard to increase their online and real world reach and power. (The impact of Covid seems to have opened a window for this) .
I notice that their network of websites and Youtube channel are putting forward a variety of conspiracy theories about Osho`s death  to bolster their claims. Claims of racism are being bandied about, and as mentioned, most bizarrely, anti-Resort campaigners are taking seriously what Sheela says about the very person she once served jailtime for  attempting to murder.
All these things are  disturbing to anyone with any sense. But a quick glance at history tells us that  people famously stop making sense when it comes to being involved with what they percieve as a battle for the heart and soul of their religion (albeit a purportedly religionless one).
The Resort management,  on the other hand, say very little. The message from them seems basically: “We are in charge, nothing to see here, move along.” It has to be said that it  is undeniable that some of their moves, like the unproven, alleged sad forgery of Osho`s will, have been almost comically inept.
The Inner Circle are unapologetically autocratic. I suspect that `dialogue` is not a word to be found  in their management manual.
The `rebels`, on the other hand, reference democratic ideas as an alternative way of running the Resort/ashram, but they don`t seem to create  any genuinely democratic structures, even online ones.
In this polarisation I have not come across a single online space where any kind of open discussion about these matters is taking place. As we can see clearly in the outside world, this growing  polarisation has a tendency to breed more suspicion, more paranoia and in the worst cases, even violence.
Maybe Sannyas News could act as such a space?
Is there a discussion to be had or is everyone already too well entrenched in their `side`?
And Swami Rockeller Shanti observes:
With the ongoing actions with Osho’s property, there are a few things that I wish to discuss.
Firstly, Osho mentioned that Mahavira knew there was going to be a divide after he left his body: there were already those who stood naked and those who were earlier disciples of Parshvanath, 23rd tirthankara, accepted in the  fold by Mahavira and who wore white clothes. He also mention that a disciple’s mind is small, he sees one aspect and refuses another aspect.
What do you think he would have felt about the present opposition between the two different viewpoints?
I can see these viewpoints as one mainly being that Osho left behind a spiritual place, a Buddhafield, to be run as a place of great devotion and enriching material comforts; while the other view states that it is a place for those who have arrived at material comforts and now seek something spiritual in that situation.
Both these views contain some very small minor changes that in reading  appear irrelevant, but this difference has come to create misunderstanding once again among Osho’s people, one group claiming that the others seek to destroy the work by what appears to them a completely business-oriented approach while the latter state they’re protecting the work from losing its revolutionary character at the hands of what to them appears a traditional approach.
It is clear that Osho himself is vast in an epic sense so misunderstanding is only natural. Trust could be the key to him.
These are  my opinions.
What do you readers think of this whole scenario we witness here?


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67 Responses to The Pune Property and the Battle for the Soul of Neo-Sannyas

  1. satyadeva says:

    I think religious and cultural differences are playing a huge part in this, the Indian litigants outraged by what they regard as a sort of ‘spiritual imperialism’, thinking that the powers-that-be, Amrito, Jayesh & co., have no right to control Osho’s hq, which should be returned to its natural guardians, his compatriots.

    Osho knew his people would be divided after he departed, confidently predicting the split between those who like to focus on externals, eg the outer forms and rituals of a religion and who would attempt to create a new religion from his words and work, and those whose prime interest was working inwardly. He knew this was inevitable but also knew that whatever happened his approach would live on and become a key to the future of humanity.

    I should add that religious/cultural differences and the outer forms/inner work dichotomy are not necessarily directly related, ie there can be a mix of these two sets of approaches in any individual person, whatever their background and spiritual preferences.

    • frank says:

      Good points, SD.

      I would like to add that, further perusing some of the online material regarding this story, I have noticed that, in tune with the zeitgeist, there are indeed a lot of conspiratorial theories being floated around.

      Most common is the idea that Osho was in fact murdered and it was covered up by the perpetrators who are still in power. Nefarious happenings with regard to Vivek`s death are hinted at, too. One variant is that some guy who was (posing as) a sannyasin in Pune 2, who was close to Osho, managed to poison Osho and this guy now lives in the Vatican.

      Others are:
      Jayesh was a Christian priest before coming to Osho. The Resort people are agents of Opus Dei. Sheela has said that Jayesh was planted by the Republican party from his arrival at the end of the Ranch. The same people who orchestrated the Ranch downfall killed Osho later and their brief has been all along to destroy Osho`s vision and legacy. I`ve even come across stuff like: “they use psychic attacks on sannyasins to suck off (sic) their spiritual energy” which would be pure light relief, so to speak, if it were not presented in all seriousness.

      The overarching theme is that Osho, his dream, his vision for the world has been systematically and deliberately thwarted by various shady organisations who have conspired and will stop at nothing to make this happen. With the devastating effects of Covid, this nefarious plan has come almost to fruition with the Resort now basically out of business for who knows how long.

      There are some parallels with the rise of conspiracy theories found in the New Age scene. Some commentators have posited that one reason that conspirituality started to take hold in newage circles, even before Covid, was this:
      The New Age, by definition was supposed to be the beginning of a new age of consciousness for humanity. This is the belief/motivation/vision that has driven it from the get-go. When it became clear that such a `paradigm shift` wasn`t really happening, in fact things were sliding fast the other way, the idea came up that there must be a reason for that. Yes, there is! The reason is that there are shadowy cabals operating in and controlling the world, deliberately plotting to stop conscious evolution. The bad guys, evil, actually, are undermining and constantly conspiring to make sure that such positive things that we have dreamed about, but have not come to pass, are destroyed.

      The `rebel` sannyasins, particularly the leaders involved in this online uprising contra the Resort are quite old now. They put a lot of time and energy into their enlightenment, the new man, Osho`s vision, a lotus paradise – and what`s to show? Maybe they`re getting that sinking feeling that it just ain`t happening? They were hoping that the goose was out but now it`s been cooked! The new man hasn`t showed up, as he`s too busy talking to his lawyers. Osho was supposed to take his rightful place alongside Buddha, Jesus and Krishna and the rest, but now, thanks to Netflix, he`s ended up in the same file as Charlie Manson and the Waco guy. Shit! That hurts! Hey, there must be someone to blame.

      Yes, there is. The guys at the Resort. Check the language: The Resort guys aren`t just a group that can`t do their job properly. They are criminals They are murderers, What they do is ugly. They are destroying and killing the vision. They have committed `atrocities`. They are politicians and priests. In short, if there is a devil in Osho`s pantheon, the Resort management are it.

      In their search for a saviour that somewhat echoes the Qanon dream of Donald Trump as some kind of messiah, the Osho `rebels` are asking all sannyasins to write letters appealing to Prime Minister Narendra Modi to intervene to save Osho`s legacy. This is the same Modi who, for his whole political life, has been hand-in-glove with the RSS, the hard-core, violent hindu supremacists who have fed in massively to the polarisation and religious fundamentalist madness in India today. Some will remember that Vilas Tupe, the guy who tried to kill Osho in 1981 by throwing a knife at him in discourse, was a member of.the RSS. Now, that`s what I call a plot twist!

      I wonder how much unacknowledged sadness there is driving all of this. How many marginalised and/or repressed feelings of grief, failure, shame and other painful green, red and other coloured monsters surfacing from the deep that have exploded into this war?
      (Btw, I am not a supporter of the Resort management. Their motivation is fairly simple to understand. They are behaving like a typical authoritarian cult).

      Alongside the dream of a wiser, more conscious humanity and the promise of widespread enlightenment, we find many of the classic staples of Shakespearean tragedy in the neo-Sannyas story, past and present: hubris, downfall, conflict, tragic waste, supernatural events, catharses, lack of poetic justice, the struggle of good against evil… And there`s jealousy, betrayal, murder, backstabbing, suicide, corruption, dark secrets, drug addiction, lots of money, unforgiveness, plenty of poisonings, hastily disposed-of bodies, fascism, forgery, black magic attacks, endless lies and rumours, conspiracy theories and score-settling. Phew!

      Maybe many sannyasins, in their desperation to “celebrate and transcend” and in their efforts to stay airborne on the “fly-high bliss-trip” at all costs have simply not been able or willing to process the sad, tragic, shadowy, down-to-earth and all-too-human elements of the whole story in their lives?

    • swamishanti says:

      Just to point out that ‘Swami Rockefeller Shanti’ is nothing to do with me.

      It will make the Roman Catholics feel much better if they are not implicated in the death. Especially after the burning of millions of innocent European women during the Inquisition that they feared as ‘witches’ in the Middle Ages.
      (Little video to go with this: ‘Burning Times’ by Christy Moore: )

      And I don’t believe that Jayesh or anyone in the IC had any links to William Casey, the conservative Roman Catholic who was the director of the CIA during Osho’s time in the U.S. and the World Tour and was said to make regular secret visits to the Vatican to meet with the second most powerful man in the Catholic Church – Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI).

      Apparently, Ratzinger was known to be working behind the scenes to secure Osho’s expulsion from America and was said to be worried that the appeal of ‘Eastern mysticism’ would lure people away from the ways of the Church – and that Osho would become too popular.

  2. Lokesh says:

    “What do you readers think of this whole scenario we witness here?”

    Not much. I think Shantam is fairly representative of those rebels who want to return The Resort to the faithful. Having met him, I know that his crusade is based on a complete mind trip, that has little or nothing to do with Osho, and everything to do with a misguided notion that might lend a thin veneer of meaning to an otherwise mundane existence. Sad but true.

    I think anyone who sat with Osho for some time and took in what he had to impart while alive, will by now have moved on to fresh pastures. Osho was just not the kind of guru who wanted some half-baked religion based around an idea about who and what he was thirty years after he split the scene. Yeah, he probably toyed with the idea in between reading books and inhaling laughing gas. But really, how can anyone take this nonsense seriously? Answer, you need to be stupid.

    Of course, none of this is surprising. It is the same old, same old. Osho even talked about such situations developing and how utterly dumb and potentially dangerous they were. Remember the zen master who appoints some nobody in the kitchen to run the show after he dies? He gets hold of the guy and tells him to get out of Dodge, because he anticipated that the real disciples would do away with him once they knew what was going down.

    Sheela pops her egocentric head up for the umpteenth time. For fuck’s sake gimme a break. That is a sure sign the whole deal is totally iffy.

    Up until now The Resort has been a profitable business venture, even taking into account that they have to sell three acres to pay off a debt during covid times. There will always be a few jokers who have nothing better to do than try and get their sticky fingers into the money pie.

    I have no doubt that Osho’s Samadhi is a power spot, not because of his ashes but because of what transpired there decades ago and became recent history. If it were up to me, I’d bulldoze the whole fucking place and make something useful out of the cleared land like a hospital, or maybe an oxygen factory, seeing as how right now many people are dying because of a lack of CO2. That would be a breath of fresh air.

  3. samarpan says:

    Whatever happens to the property I think Osho is set to become the next great religious figure in history, like Buddha and Jesus. This is inevitable because Osho programmed a kind of serial deployment of his teaching.

    Controversy aids deployment. Osho was intentionally provocative in order to create a lot of attention and curiosity. It was important first to generate enough controversy in the world so everybody knew about him even in a very negative way. SN is playing its role in Osho’s ascendancy by not letting him be forgotten.

    Osho’s role was to leave an unbelievable audiovisual record of his teaching: thousands of books, tapes, videos, photos, etc. Free of charge I read 85 of Osho’s books I found in a library near me. There are hundreds of PDFs of Osho’s books available for download free of charge.

    Thanks to the pandemic there are worldwide Zoom satsangs available in timezones around the world. This year I have participated in Osho zoom satsangs, Osho zoom meditations, Osho zoom celebrations, etc.

    There are Osho websites and wikis and blogs and Osho podcasts and Osho apps and Osho DVDs. There are Osho audiobooks and an Osho audiobook club. Osho on public television and YouTube. Osho FaceBook groups. And Netflix documentaries. And Osho meditation centres around the world. This is all happening decades after Osho’s death.

    Steadily Osho is growing. In the 21st century Osho is a best-selling author worldwide. Whatever happens to the Pune property Osho’s teaching is so substantial, and so beautiful, that his teaching will exist in perpetuity in his writings, in the videos of his discourses, etc. around the world. More people are initiating into neo-Sannyas.

    The point is: people will have a lot of access to Osho and his teaching for a very long time. Osho set it up so this would happen. The fate of the Pune property is but a blip in the larger neo-Sannyas meditation movement that is happening and will continue to happen.

    • frank says:

      Sam, the Dude abides, no question.

      What I was writing about is the curious state of affairs that has arisen where those who have also read the books and done the meditations and satsangs that you reference, in some cases even organised them and run them for a large public, but have nonetheless have ended up spouting old-school religious wack mashed up with self-serving conspiracy stuff and throwing their lot in with the sort of right-wing hindu bigots and fascists that Osho, during his visit to the planet, unequivocally spoke against.

      Is that what it takes to be the next big thing after JC and Buddha?
      Needs must?

      • frank says:

        Maybe these Modi lovers were really closeted hardcore hindus all along, just got pulled in by the lure of a bit of (gora) nookie, a kind of Hinduism-with-benefits? Now that the coast is clear they can get back to their original conditioning about how ancestrally pure and inheritors of the wisdom of mighty Bhorat they are etc.

        Plus, quite a few of them seem to have some kudos in own fishponds. To me, they look like legends in their own lunchtimes but to their young, impressionable and enthusiastic fans they must be like major celeb rock stars who actually got to meet Elvis.

        Trouble is, being a celebrity surrounded by yes-men and yes-women clearly isn`t that good for your mental health. They live in an echo-chamber. Have you noticed many stars who have hit the big time start to spout quasi-fascist reactionary nonsense when the middle-aged spread starts to kick in? In fact these days it seems to be a path to popularity in the first place (see a whole raft of Youtube influencers).

        Ending up a right-wing nutter seems to be the inevitable apotheosis in the path of the `rebel`.

        It`s a weird one, that.

  4. Lokesh says:

    Yes, Samarpan, what you say is true. I just published a novel: ‘Sagara’. It is quite unique because it places Osho in a fictional setting, a very positive one. So, we are all doing our bit.

  5. Klaus says:

    My five cents. For whatever these are worth:

    I suspect that for the Westerners all religiousness would have to be left out.
    Whereas for the Easterners there would be no problem to take part in the business side.
    For democratic proceedings the decision board should then be 50/50 Easterners and Westerners: implementing this or that always at least one vote of the other party will be needed. Simplify.
    Does that sound like “the middle way”? Could that be implemented non-violently and not needing any lawyerings and courts?

    Love your writings: uncannily exact while poetic and rhythmic at the same time. And spot on.
    “….how much unacknowledged sadness there is driving all of this. How many marginalised and/or repressed feelings of grief, failure, shame and other painful green, red and other coloured monsters surfacing from the deep…
    …celebrate and transcend…fligh-high-bliss-trip….”

    There is certainly a lot of all of it happening in many people. I am/was one of them: can’t keep it up, gotta let it go, what goes up must come down, all things must pass.

    I second your idea of closing the whole shop down instead of escalating the confrontation. And replace it with something that helps people in dire need.

    Probably the old hippy proverb, “Turn on – Tune in – Drop out“ also fits the Sannyas world.
    In addition, that kind of a fixation or even obsession seems to be oblivious of other worthwhile opportunities, persons, places. Possibly missing opportunities that could be of – even more – fitting help to one’s personal situation.

    The first thing that gets killed when institutionalising sets in is love; ask a church, Christian or any.

    Thanks for the link to Christie Moore’s song. I spent hours with Planxty songs…The Irish certainly can express feelings. They have had a ton of hard life experiences and still somehow come out as really good persons. Admiration I feel.
    These are touching, too:
    Little Musgrave
    True Love knows no Season

    The ‘Papa Ratzi’, a ‘work of God’? Jealous and with ill will? Fighting for supremacy? Ha.

    May well be. May not be. What counts for me is what happens to the individual person. Nowadays, I do not feel a need to idealistically see things tainted in gold. Rather there is a kind of dis-illusionment. Something – of the good – of clarity – is developing within, not compelled by the ‘enlightened united’ from outside.


    • frank says:

      Klaus, “Enlightened United” sounds like a the kind of club that would sign up for an elitist self-serving Super-League!

      • frank says:

        Maybe the two opposing sides in the Resort dispute should get a team together and decide the matter in a game of football. No, it`s India, so it would have to be cricket.

        The umpires would have their work cut out. The sledging and cheating is already out of hand and they haven’t even got on the pitch yet.

        That said, pundits tend to agree that, with remarkably few exceptions, in matters of religion, like all pro sports, bottom line, it comes down to the money.

        So, despite having the fanatical support of their mindlessly devoted fanbase, unless the All-India Trishul-Wavers get themselves a proper sponsorship deal, they are never going to be able to regain the Ashes. The Gora Punatics with their phenomenal wealth and infamous swagger are just too strong for them.

        There again, the Punatics are an aging team, probably well past their prime, so it might just be a matter of time before they hang up their robes and have to walk that long walk back to the far pavilions.

        • Klaus says:

          It will certainly be interesting to observe the twists and turns the plot will take.

          I still hope it does not turn into a sorry saga.

          • frank says:

            I can`t really imagine that the issue will be the first thing on Modi`s to-do list.
            You would think that he might have a few other more pressing matters on his mind at the moment.

            Btw, I hear that Koregaon Park has more urgent matters, too. Apparently, the area has been overrun by herds of hogs.
            This is the result, by the sound of it, of a scam involving the City Corporation and pork dealers known as the `Pork Mafia`.
            The locals have asked the PMC to rename KP ‘Piggy Park’.

  6. Lokesh says:

    Although Osho spoke a lot about ‘the middle way’, looking back on his life it is difficult to imagine him walking it. He was quite extreme in many respects.

    • satchit says:

      ‘The middle way’ is not a way to walk.

      It is a paradox.

      Because of this it is easy to be extreme on the middle way.

      • satyadeva says:

        Then why is it recommended, Satchit?

        • satchit says:

          Recommended for whom?

          The mind will certainly say:
          Oh I’m so extreme, this is not good.
          Now let’s try the middle way.

          But will it work?

          • satyadeva says:

            Recommended, presumably, for all who take seriously advice from whoever says this. No need to complicate the issue, surely, is there, Satchit?!

            “Will it work?” Perhaps it will, if you’re ready, ie fed up with ups and downs, indulgence/austerities, excitement/depression, hope/despair and so on…(Perhaps you’re yet to reach such an lofty low point?).

            • frank says:

              “Find excess in moderation”…Albert Camus

              “Everything in moderation, including moderation”…Oscar Wilde

              “The road of excess leads to A and E”….Aleister Headbanger

            • satchit says:

              So when you are fed up with ups and downs, then suddenly the middle way opens before your eyes, SD?
              (Being ‘fed up’ is still part of duality…:)

              For me it is different:

              The middle way is like walking on a tightrope – sometimes leaning to the right, sometimes leaning to the left.

              • satyadeva says:

                “So when you are fed up with ups and downs, then suddenly the middle way opens before your eyes, SD?”

                Yes, why not? Although decisive factors might well be exposure to such teachings – and a degree of intelligence.

                Btw, I fail to see the relevance of “Being ‘fed up’ is still part of duality…:”

                • satchit says:

                  As I see it, SD, ups and downs, moods, belong
                  to the bodymind.

                  They are like breathing in, breathing out, and belong to the world of
                  change. How can you stop them? At the most you can suppress them.

                  Being fed up belongs also to the world of change.

                  Today you are fed up, tomorrow not?

                • frank says:

                  Yes, but what about `consciousness hacking` where `you` introduce elements that influence the flow of change? Could be meditation, excercise, hypnosis, yoga, relaxation, psychotropics, beer etc. etc?

                  Did/do you ever have a go at that?

                • satchit says:

                  Certainly one can change the perception of the brain with these things, but why should one do it, Frankie?

                  Yes, when I was younger I did also try to expand my consciousness.

                  Now it is okay for me how it is.

                • frank says:

                  “Why should one do it?”
                  Just for the hell of it, I guess.
                  It definitely shouldn`t be compulsory.

              • Lokesh says:

                I thought the MIDDLE WAY was a nightclub in Amsterdam.

  7. Lokesh says:

    “All extremes have to be avoided. Never be an ascetic and never become indulgent. Don’t eat too much food and don’t go on long fasts. Don’t become too obsessed with luxury, and don’t become too much anti-luxury, anti-comfort.”
    (Osho, ‘Philosophia Perennis’)

    “Don’t become too obsessed with luxury” is, of course, the part that sticks out. Luxury can be defined as a state of great comfort or elegance, especially when involving great expense. Osho spent millions on watches and cars. One could say he became obsessed with such luxury goods. Think for yourself and question all authority.

  8. Lokesh says:

    “And I love to live so pleasantly
    Live this life of luxury
    Lazing on a sunny afternoon….”

    • frank says:

      Do you wanna ride?
      See your self going by…
      On the other side of the sky…
      I`ve got a silver machine
      I`ve got a silver machine….

      Realistically tho`, this pic probably more suitable and relatable for the sannyas underclass….

  9. Lokesh says:

    Great orator that he was, Osho talked the talk and then some. When it came to walking the walk he had a wee bit of a job walking the walk he talked. Of course, he might have been drunk.

    • Klaus says:

      “Walking the talk”…

      I do not think that he said this to himself, too.
      He said it for us, the searching ones.

      Found a thus fitting quote of Albert Einstein regarding morality and a ‘personal God’:

      “I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality.

      And Morality is of the highest importance — but for us, not for God.”

      Albert Einstein, from ‘Albert Einstein: The Human Side’, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman

      But then again, he does not seem to have experience nor non-experience of a spiritual path. Even though he seemed to have gotten quite close.

    • Klaus says:

      These melas were wild before.
      Now with the pandemic they are even more wild.

      Phew. It is a wild life.

      Bless all souls.

      • Lokesh says:

        Did you check the Osho Hotel sign in the background?

        • Klaus says:

          Yes. That jumped into my eyes.
          Is it a real Osho’s?

          • frank says:

            I googled it. It`s the best place to get a grandstand view of the Kumbh Mela aka Mass Virucide.

            Seems Osho is a popular business name in India.

            This is a pic of the view from one of the rooms.

            • frank says:

              “otherwise monkeys may damage your belongings”
              Too true.

              • Lokesh says:

                Yes, keep your eyes on the monkeys. They are always up to monkey business.

                • frank says:

                  Quite so.
                  I surmise a hidden esoteric Nostradamian message on the windows of the Hotel Osho:
                  “Other (so-called) wise monkeys may damage (your health)…”.

                  I remember facing off a big, red-faced monkey that was trampling my roof up in the Himalayas. Bad move. He went for me, I just got back in the door in time.

                  That`s when I realised we are pretty piddly monkeys really, we`ve just got better weapons.

                • Klaus says:

                  Good article here, Frank.

                  Now, how close to moksha can blind faith get you?

                  Let’s say, there is a chance as long as it does not lead you to silly actions like injecting something into the backside of your co-spiritualist or poisoning salad bars of trustful normal people.

                  Maybe even “the little break” between lives gets you some insight.
                  Or one is reborn into another faith for a change of perspective?

                  At least some cooling down.


                • frank says:

                  It`s a pretty good demonstration of the absolute idiocy and utter bankruptcy of believing in predictive astrology, too.

                • Klaus says:

                  Predictive astrology quite obviously does not help awareness. Even in a pandemic.

                  Hari Om Tatsat.

                • frank says:

                  Yeah. Uranus would have to be severely retrograde to believe in that stuff.

                • frank says:

                  I was considering the rather horrendous story about the Kumbh Mela taking place in the middle of a pandemic because of the ‘Sun entering Aries’ and ‘Jupiter entering Aquarius’ and I wonder if anyone knows any other story about people following astrological predictions that have resulted in illness, death and mayhem on a mass scale (or any scale)?

                  Is this a new low for astrology?
                  I mean, the best argument for most alternative practices, be it astrology, homeopathy etc. is that even if they don`t work, at least they are harmless and even fun.
                  Where does that idea stand now?

                  The thing is that these astrologers who “calculated” this were the most authoritative, respected and followed astrologers literally in the whole world.

                • satchit says:

                  Seems the guys in the Kumbh Mela don’t care much about pandemic.

                  If you believe in many lives, who bothers about life and death? It’s all Karma.

                  Our religious celebration in town is cancelled again this year. No beer-drinking party, no Oktoberfest!

                • frank says:


                  What western conspiritualists do with their minds, in India is a physical reality.

                  Jai Bullshit!

    • VeetTom says:

      There is a fitting video on Kumbh Mela by this new living master known very well by now – worldwide – actually even more known than Osho – influencing with 68.000 videos on UTube. So try this enlightend Osho-Sangha?

      • frank says:

        Anand Yogi asked me to post a mail for him as he has computer problems.

        Anand Yogi says:
        “Certainly, Sadhguru is perfectly correct!

        Going to Kumbh Mela one can find and get anything! That is the glory of mighty Bhorat! There is no right and wrong! Every way is there! If regular Covid doesn`t suit, then Delta variant is there, Lamda variant is there….so many choices…black fungus, white fungus, yellow fungus, Delhi Belhi and thrashing own vital organs with stick! If that is unsatisfactory…so many paths…simply drop the mind with its obsession with good and evil and enjoy respiratory, faeco-oral, vector-borne, zoonotic, blood-borne ailments, meningococcal transmission, cholera and STDs! Everything is possible: stampedes, heat-related illness, accidents, injury in turf-wars between Naga sadhus, and rolling on the ground or bathing naked in the river early in the morning may predispose to skin, respiratory, gastro-intestinal and genito-urinary infections!

        It is all perfectly right, even though there is no right and wrong!

        And if one dies of infection and/or multiple organ failure it is also no problem as you will simply be reborn in better slum or even as Mahatma (great soul) like Sadhguru!

        See how much good karma Sadhguru has accumulated! Sitting in comfortable, safe, aircon room miles away from Mela with own private physician, pontificating about glories of Kumbh Mela and criticising western mind whilst wearing RayBan shades whilst pumping out another vid for YouTube channel is certainly a very significant teaching for those who have the eyes to see and the ears to hear!

        Also, occasional chesty laugh learned from Sanata Klaus who in fact originated, like all spiritual things, not in North Pole but in Himalayas (real name Sant Kalasa), is certainly proof of enlightenment!
        Ho Ho Ho!

        It is certainly wonderful to hear Sadhguru speak about Osho. Every enlightened master is certainly different! But not that different! Sadhguru is certainly Oasis to Osho`s Beatles! Cliff Richard to Osho`s Elvis! Goku to Osho`s Superman!
        India is certainly most spiritual place as Sadhguru says!

        For example, where else could Sadhguru`s otherwise completely healthy wife die under suspicious circumstances with father-in-law accusing of murder, then matter be settled by husband declaring that she has gone into voluntary yogic Mahasamadhi? Only those who have gone beyond low-level moralistic cultures and become highly spiritual by being born on mighty Bhorat`s browned and hallowed turf can hope to understand!

        Of course western baboons from moralistic cultures will understand none of this! Their morality has led them to letting women and homosexuals out at night and having equal rights!

        See the madness of the rational western mind!
        We in mighty Bhorat have remained amoral for spiritual purposes and are fighting hard against this absurd insistence on morality by keeping rape, violence, misogyny and institutionalised oppression legal as per the thousands of years old examples of our glorious tradition of spirituality!

        Hari Om!

        Btw, by remarkable synchronicity, it turns out that Swami Bhorat, Yogi`s guru, attended the same school as Sadhguru: Bungabungalore Elementary. Apparently, Sadhguru was a lively student, mostly interested in the sound of own voice, Eve-teasing and football where his favourite position was and still is, as a tricksy right-winger pretending to play in the centre, bamboozling the opposition with his banter and getting involved in his fair share of off-the-ball incidents.

        From a young age it was clear that he was destined to be a spiritual teacher, a pundit, so none of his old classmates were surprised when he appeared at the World Cup and Euros giving vital spiritual information and opinions about his favourite footballers on his YouTube channel.

    • Klaus says:

      The Oregonians kicked it.
      And the Americans, too.
      Plus all the countries lacking the courage to take him in.
      Not much left, though, but India, the home country. They missed an opportunity.

      It has been extreme on all sides.

      Luckily, history does not repeat itself:
      It just rhymes.

        • Klaus says:

          “Row, row, row your boat
          gently down the stream
          Marylin, Marylin – life is but a dream.”

          Careful – satire.

          • frank says:

            Again, sad.

            In one way, that`s just typical of the States.

            I was watching a vid the other day made by some crazy dude in Detroit documenting his hobby of breaking into all the old deserted places there and taking photos. Schools, police stations, concert halls, shops, offices, doctors’ surgeries, dentists, sports stadiums, whole skyscrapers, funeral parlours, hotels, railway stations, a jail. All just left to rot, often with all the stuff just left inside. Mindboggling.

            I remember going past a few ghost towns out in the West in the Greyhound bus on the way to the Ranch, old saloon doors swinging in the wind, tumbleweed drifting down the street type of thing…..

            The Mandir was something. I wonder what it would be like to wander round there undisturbed for a while…

            Oh well, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

  10. Lokesh says:

    I suppose it is a bit like those ghost towns in the deserts of Almerian southern Spain. They were used at the height of the Spaghetti Western era for film shoots and are now touted as tourist attractions. There is one place that has a gallows with a hangman’s noose. Was fun to wander round with friends taking set up photos etc. We had the place to ourselves. The saloon was as dry as the surrounding area.

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