Many of us in the West tend to enjoy a good mystery story around Christmas time, and here’s one from Osho himself, from one of his earliest books, ‘I Am The Gate’, published in the early 1970s, provided by Ganga, who writes:
I would like to invite sannyasins to comment on what is, in my opinion, a very controversial Osho discourse.
What is your take on this?
He says an esoteric Buddhist group created by Ashoka worked on Hitler.
Reading the paragraph, it implies that Hitler was a force of good, led by an esoteric Buddhist group.
What do you think?
Was Hitler the good guy?
The following is from ‘I Am the Gate’, chapter 8, question 1:
This esoteric group cannot be created suddenly. Buddha happens suddenly, but this group cannot be created suddenly. So countries which have been spiritual for thousands of years have esoteric groups as a continuity, as a tradition. And whenever there is this kind of happening, the group begins to work.
Ashoka created a group which is still existing — a group of nine persons. Whenever a person dies, another replaces him, so the group still continues. Whenever one dies, the eight remaining ones will choose one to replace him. He will be trained by the eight, so the training continues. Persons change, but the group remains, and still today the group is there, because a reincarnation of Buddha is awaited. He can come at any time. And when Buddha is there, you cannot suddenly create the group, because this group of esoteric adepts is created through a long training and discipline. This is not a sudden happening.
So many times groups have been started. Sometimes they continue and then wither away.
Sometimes they go on and then are no more, because so many difficulties are there.
Many difficulties are there! This group of Ashoka’s nine esoteric ones still continues because there are many conditions which help it to. One is it never comes directly in contact with the masses itself. It has still other groups is between. It always remains unknown, hidden. You can never know its whereabouts. And any person who is initiated in the group, the very moment he is initiated he disappears from your world — completely disappears. Then you can never know anything about him, the group can continue anonymously.
This group has many keys and many methods. Through those keys and methods, it goes on working in many ways. This is a group whose members are in the physical body, they are as alive as we are. Once someone has become a member of the group, he cannot be chosen again in another life. Then he will work as a link between the group and the masses. This creates another circle around the nine, a greater circle, because so many persons have been members of it. They know Buddha directly, they know the esoteric adepts directly. They are so experienced that they can remain in the masses and can continue the work with the group. But they will not be its members. When someone of this group is not born on this earth, when he is without a physical body, if he remains in a non-body existence, he still continues to work.
There are so many adepts who are not in this physical body who go on working.
Theosophists call them masters — such as Master Koot Humi. These are fictitious names, but they refer to a particular personality, an individuality. They are fictitious names, but they refer to a particular unembodied soul which is helping.
This Master K.-H., one of the most ancient adepts of Ashoka’s circle of nine, created the whole movement of theosophy. They were trying to create a situation in which Buddha’s coming incarnation could be possible, because Buddha had said that after twenty-five centuries he would again be born and his name would be Maitreya. And an enlightened person like Gautam Buddha is capable of knowing about who is going to be enlightened twenty-five centuries later. So Buddha predicted, and for this happening Ashoka’s circle of nine has been working for centuries. Now the time is near, so the theosophy movement was just a preparation.
It failed, the experiment failed. They experimented with three or four people to be made vehicles for Maitreya to descend, but the experiment failed. Something or other missed.
Sometimes the thing was just on the brim of success, and something happened.
Krishnamurti was ready, completely ready, to be made a vehicle. Everything was ready.
He came on the pulpit to surrender himself and to become so empty that Maitreya could come in. But at the last moment he denied surrender. No one around him could think that this was going to happen. Not even a hint was given that Krishnamurti, in the last step, would fail and come back. And that is why, after that phenomenon, after that happening of coming back, for his whole life, continuously for forty years, he has been emphasizing individuality, “Be an individual!”
This has a meaning. The whole preparation was to lose one’s individuality, otherwise one cannot become a vehicle: “Be as if you are not! Surrender totally to forces beyond you.”
He denied surrender just on the brink of jumping. Everything was ready. One step and Maitreya would have been in the world.
But the last step could not be taken. He came back. He said, “I am myself.” That is why his whole philosophy became, “Do not surrender, do not follow, do not believe, do not be a disciple.” The whole thing is just an outcome; it is just rationalization and consolation.
He has been working for forty years continuously out of that step that could not be taken.
Still he is not out of it. The repentance is there, the would is there. He could not surrender at the last moment. So theosophy failed with Krishnamurti and became a dead movement, because the movement existed only for the materialization of this happening. It became meaningless. The house had been built, but the master never came to reside in it. So after Krishnamurti’s denial to be a vehicle for Maitreya, Theosophy became meaningless. It still continues, just like a hangover, but nothing substantial exists now.
This whole movement was created by the nine adepts of Ashoka. They are still working.
In so many ways, they go on working. And there is a history behind our so-called history of which you will not even be able to conceive. History has a deeper base. The periphery which we know as history is not of real events. Behind out so-called history continues another, a deeper one, about which we know nothing.
For example, we all have heard about Hitler, his fascism, his whole movement, his desperate efforts to do something. But no one knows that there is something behind which is hidden. Hitler was just a vehicle for other forces. Now there are glimpses that he was not the real actor in the drama. He was just a means, he was used. Someone else was behind him, some other forces were working. For example, the choice of the swastika, the symbol of Adolf Hitler’s party — this is the oldest, the most ancient symbol of a particular school of adepts.
In India, one of the most ancient groups is that of the Jains. The swastika is their symbol, but not exactly as it was with Hitler. Hitler’s swastika design was in reverse. The Jain swastika is clockwise; Hitler’s is anti-clockwise. This anti-clockwise swastika is a destructive symbol. They searched for three years continuously to choose a symbol, because a symbol is not just a symbol. If you can take a symbol from a deeper tradition, then the symbol becomes a link. So persons were sent to Tibet to discover one of the most ancient symbols of the Aryan race, because with that symbol much that is hidden can be contacted.
The swastika was chosen, but in reverse. And the person who found the symbol, Hessenhoff, convinced Adolf Hitler that the symbol should be in reverse order. He was one of the persons who was in contact with many esoteric groups, but he was confused.
He was searching for two things: firstly, for a symbol which was very ancient; secondly, for a symbol which could also be made new. Because of this, the swastika was chosen and was made in reverse order. It had never existed in this way before, but due to this, events took altogether a new shape.
And with this reverse symbol it was known all over the world to those who were in contact with any esoteric knowledge that Hitler was going to destroy himself. He was going to become mad; he would be in contact with suicidal forces.
The entire concept of Hitler’s philosophy was given by some hidden schools. They used him just as Krishnamurti was going to be used by the theosophists and the hidden groups.
Hitler continued winning up to a certain extent, up to a certain moment. He was just winning: there was no defeat. The thing was phenomenal, he could just win anything, it looked as if he was undefeatable. But beyond a certain time, everything begins to go in reverse. Why did this happen?
Forces which were against Nazism defeated Hitler, but that is not the real history. That was just an outward phenomenon. Hitler was used by an esoteric group. This was one of the most desperate efforts, because this esoteric group was working for centuries but could not help humanity as they desired to help. This was a desperate effort to help humanity before humanity destroys itself on this earth. So they had tried through saints, through persons who were powerless, who were poor in spirit. They tried through Adolf Hitler to win the whole world before it is destroyed and to give a certain teaching to humanity.
But just like Krishnamurti became independent at the last moment, Hitler also became independent.
He began to go down. This is the miracle of war history. It had never happened before. Hitler would not take the advice of any general. He would move or attack, but no advice would be taken from any general. And even against the advice of all his trained persons, he would act and move as he liked, and still he would win. There were absurd moves, nonsensical moves. No one who knows anything about war would have taken those moves. But Hitler would take them and he won for three years.
Everyone who was around him knew that he was just a vehicle of some greater force.
This was not explainable. And whenever he would order, he would not be in his conscious mind. This is a new fact which has become known now. Whenever he would order, he would just be ecstatic. His eyes would be closed, he would begin to tremble, he would perspire, and then his voice would change completely. Another voice would order.
But the day he began to fall, his own voice began to order. From that point, from that moment, he was never in ecstasy. Some contact which was working was lost.
Now those who study Adolf Hitler and his life all feel that the phenomenon was not merely political. The person himself was not just a political maniac, not just a mad politician, because whatsoever he did was absolutely nonpolitical — his whole approach.
And those who had remained with him felt that he was a split personality. In his ordinary moments, he was so ordinary that you could not conceive of it. There was no magic; he was just ordinary. But when he was taken over, possessed, he was quite an altogether different personality.
Who was behind this? Some esoteric group was behind this, and that esoteric group was trying something. When Hitler became independent, he lost every power. In his last days, he was just ordinary. After this particular moment, when he lost contact, whatsoever he did went against him. Before this, whatsoever he did was always in his favor.
The same group I have been talking to you about, the Nine of Ashoka, was behind it.
They were trying to capture the whole world. With man, it is always a possibility that if you begin to work with some force from behind, you yourself are not aware of it. If you succeed, then you are not aware that someone else is succeeding. You succeeded, your ego is strengthened. And there comes a moment when your ego is so strengthened that you will not listen to any force. This has happened so many times.
This esoteric group, as I said to you, functions primarily as a continuity whenever there is any need. In many ways, they can help. It was not just a coincidence that Japan became friendly to Germany. It was because of this group of nine people. This is the hidden fact.
The esoteric group that was working behind Hitler was a Buddhist group, so a Buddhist country, Japan, could be influenced to side with Hitler. And the whole East felt exhilarated when Hitler was winning. The whole East was with Hitler inwardly. The group that was working behind him was an Eastern group.
http://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_Osho/I_Am_the_Gate/Osho-I-Am-the-Gate-00000008.html
Ganga asks, “Was Hitler the good guy?”
In India at the time of the 2nd world war plenty of Indians understandably thought Hitler was good news as they wanted to get rid of the Bristish Raj.
There was even an Indian regiment affiliated to the SS: the Indian Volunteer Legion of the Waffen-SS (Indische Freiwilligen Legion der Waffen-SS).
But I think the vagaries of colonial politics are not really the point here.
The whole Hitler/Nine Unknown Men schtick is clearly lifted from Louis Pauwels and Jacques Bergier’s ground-breaking occult sci-fi book, ‘Morning of the Magicians’ (1960).
It seems that Osho read it and, noting its popularity, thought it might be the sort of stuff to put out to get the western freaks, freethinkers, wanderers, worshippers and lovers of learning turning up in droves.
He wasn`t wrong.
If you look at the history of magic, occultism and the search for the spiritual from the 18th century to the present day in the West, no matter what the school, Rosicrucians, Masons, Golden Dawn, Theosophy, Anthroposophy and all their offspring, there is one unceasing theme: Hidden Knowledge, invariably archaic, and how to obtain it.
Ancient Egypt, India, China, Shangri-La, Pythagoras, Tibet, Atlantis, Lemuria, you name it. The zeitgeist was to look for a hieroglyph, ritual, a symbol, a substance, deck of cards, a secret society, an unknown science, a magus, a grimoire, a formula, access to disembodied masters etc. etc. that gave the inside dope on what`s really, really happening behind and beyond the dreary somnambulant flatlands of the tick-tock world and the mass psychosis of battlefields and satanic mills.
Blavatsky pumped it out, Gurdjieff rode it, Osho picked it up and ran with it too. It was all just a big come-on, Like women wearing make-up, perfume, suspenders, booty shorts and see-though, strapless, cut-out mini-dresses…It`s just surface wrapping but the wrapping gets you interested and helps to pull you to what you`re really after.
The authors of ‘The Morning of the Magicians’ themselves actually wrote that a lot of what they had written was silly nonsense, but that they wanted to provoke interest and enquiry into hitherto unexplored realms.
Osho read a lot of books. This aspect of his life made him a most unusual, also miraculous man, as his enlightenment enabled him to read tons of material yet kept him constantly fresh in the moment, without heaps of textbooks and novels, periodicals and newspapers cluttering his mind.
During the time this particular quote has been taken from, Osho had most likely read some book which suggested this quite ridiculous theory that Hitler was being controlled by esoteric groups. On the other hand, he may simply have been talking about this in that talk to irritate and provoke someone in particular who was sitting in the audience – certainly something he did now and again, depending on who was sitting in front of him and their particular ego complex.
Osho had a good sense of humour. I have heard that Osho had joked a couple of times along the lines that Hitler was trying to create the New Man.
Gangaji, you obviously are not so familiar with Osho if you think that Osho really believed that Hitler was “a force for the good”.
It is very clear, for anyone new to Osho, just by looking up everything Osho said on Hitler for thirty years. He didn’t only compare Sheela’s management of the Ranch to “a fascist concentration camp”. He also used “concentration camps” to describe shitty inner baggage, or darkness, unconscious blockages which are discovered by meditators when they begin the journey inside, before they get to all the really nice stuff.
“Concentration is a kind of imprisonment. And all our educational programs around the world are teaching people to concentrate.
A man like Adolf Hitler creates concentration camps to kill people – his concentration camps are crude and primitive. All the religions have created concentration camps for you, but they are psychological. They have created a certain prison inside your mind. You cannot go out of it because wherever you go, it is always within you. You cannot run; howsoever fast you run, it is always with you.”
(Osho, ‘Sermons in Stones’)
“The foreigners are in power and the native people have lost all power and they have been forced to live in reservations which are almost American name for concentration camps.
In Germany the concentration camps were more primitive. In America the reservations are more sophisticated so from the surface you will not be able to see that they are concentration camps because there are no barbed wires around, people are free, but that is just a facade.
The reality is they have created psychological imprisonment.”
(Osho, ‘The Last Testament’, vol. 5)
“Thirty million Americans are in utter poverty; millions of black people are not first-class citizens, and the people to whom the country belongs, the Red Indians, are kept in reservations. Those reservations are not very much different to the concentration camps in Germany – in fact, they are more dangerous.
In Germany, the concentration camps were made of barbed wire; you could not escape. The American reservations are open. If you want to go out, nobody is preventing you. They have created some psychological barbed wire – invisible. “
(Osho, ‘From Death to Deathlessness’)
Yeah, it`s true, Frank, that some Indians viewed Hitler as a type of saviour figure during the 2nd world war. The British were the evil imperialistic enemy, Hitler was the good guy.
Hitler’s supposition that the Aryan race is the best and white skin is superior to darker skin, which is a weird part of Indian psychology and thought, would have also appealed to them.
Even today, bleaching and skin-whitening creams are one of the most popular products on the Indian market.
Darker-skinned Indians often feel inferior and Brahmins, especially in the North of India, are traditionally fairer skinned.
If you look at pictures of Indian Goddesses, they are always very fair, they never look like Indian women. Only Kali the terrible is black.
Srila Prabhupada, the Hari Krishna guru, who championed the caste system and conservative Brahmanism, was quite fond of Hitler.
But Osho was far more intelligent and , apart from supporting the Indian independence movement, always considered nationalism stupid. Actually , he was very into Communism in his youth, and built a library containing all the Communist literature he good get his hands on , he was later inspired by the works of Russian anarchists, Kropotkin, Bakunin, Tolstoy etc. Together with one of his uncles, they named his younger sister ‘Russa’ as they were both impressed by Russia at the time.
Read the article from beginning to end and found it to be utter bullshit. I can remember reading all that crap back in the good auld days and finding it all quite fascinating and I was probably stupid enough to believe it was somehow true. I suppose it was just another case of Osho giving the people what they believed they wanted…some esoteric mumbo-jumbo that made one think they were privy to the big secret. Ironic, considering Osho later told me personally that the big secret is that there is no secret.
I do not think Hitler was a channel for anything other than the forces of pure evil. To imagine some sort of secret society was behind anything a monster like Adolf Hitler did is pure fantasy
Osho says, “The entire concept of Hitler’s philosophy was given by some hidden schools. They used him just as Krishnamurti was going to be used by the theosophists and the hidden groups.” What a load of crap. Some people will believe anything.
A couple of times in the past few months I posted Osho quotes on SN that were in fact Hitler quotes from Mein Kampf. Nobody noticed.
Osho claims, “They are so experienced that they can remain in the masses and can continue the work with the group.” I do not think it is a case of having experience as undercover agents, but rather the fact that the dumb fuckers have not actually done anything to better humanity. The world keeps on turning and idiots believe some fucking tossers from the fifth dimension are going to save them.
All that is really needed is a return to a firm belief in reincarnation. If people really believed that they will be returning to planet earth after they die and maybe get born in some shithole in The Sudan they might start tidying up their act today. It ain’t gonna happen.
My current take on this world is that it is perfect, and also the perfect place to learn what it is you have to learn in this backwater of the galaxy. The world is exactly how it is supposed to be. We do not need some extra-dimensional fuckwits down here trying to make life better because it is already perfect with all the heartache, stress, horror, beauty and mystery. The greatest show in the Milky Way.
Hitler inspired by the mysterions…yeah sure, and The Queen is actually a reptile from the Upper Megadon star cluster.]
Here is an interesting article on the kind of maniac Hitler really was…
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/adolf-hitler-super-junkie-drugs-veins-collapsed-norman-ohler-blitzed-thousands-injections-a7346111.html
Last but not least, here is Adolf hanging out with the lads as they run over their latest instructions from The Ashoka Nine.
Lokesh sneered:
”A couple of times in the past few months I posted Osho quotes on SN that were in fact Hitler quotes from Mein Kampf.”
Yep. Sorta thing I’d expect from you.
Yes, quite right, Staffelführer Arpana – pity you missed the punchline…Nobody noticed. That includes you. Anyway, thanks for putting me in my place. Love your uniform.
@Lokesh
Hitler also justified his behavour on the grounds there was something wrong with everyone else.
Again, the endarkened baboons of SN attempt to understand far-reaching occult matters that go way beyond their obsession with titillating and titivating their sense organs and using their paltry minds which are nothing but mind! Certainly, using the western mind in these matters is as useless as trying to use Occam`s Razor to clean Indian public toilet in rainy season!
The Nine Men of Mighty Bhorat are certainly real, but only for those who have done the preparatory work and deep meditations that have opened them up to dimensions beyond the known, unlike the baboons of Kali Yuga who have not meditated enough but instead have abused the freedom that Osho has given them, having no qualms in displaying their ignorance in the same shameless manner as they display their unsattvic red bottoms!
The Nine Men are still active today!
Yes, it is true that many times the Nine Men have been disappointed by the likes of Krishnamurti, Hitler and Shantam, who have failed in their missions by becoming too egoistic and going off on their own trip, whether it be denouncing all spiritual authority, invading Russia and attacking Stalingrad, or becoming a connoisseur of Japanese Zen porn, instead of obeying clear diktats of ascended masters!
But there are many matters about which the unconscious masses and even the so-called educated masses know very little!
For example, have you given thought to the true reason why mighty India has risen again to such global heights?
It is entirely down to the efforts of the Nine Men of mighty Bhorat!
In conjunction with the Nine Unknown Men, Swami Arun is helping to realise an era of superconsciousness that will last a thousand years by making the true yogi Narendra Modi`s body a vehicle for Zorba the Buddha who will enter him from the beyond and the behind!
The plan is to purge the world from the scourge of lower-consciouness-carrying baboons and inferior religions and to shock it onto the true path in a global blitzkrieg of Bhorati Dharma!
See the results!
Yoga/meditation schools have sprung up like mushrooms everywhere and westerners with silly grins saying “Namaste” and humming along mindlessly to 5000 year-old tunes have swamped the spiritual wasteland of the West! Westerners are contorting their bodies and mindlessly falling at feet of Indian gurus and banging their heads on marble as we speak!
Also, coffers of glorious gurus sitting under swastika and selling noodles are filling up, thanks to spiritual ignorance of dreadlocked trustafarians and corporate whizz-kids alike!
And it is no accident that Nag Champa is now available in charity shops of perverted West. It is entirely down to Nine Men`s tireless efforts!
Also, thanks to Modi`s campaigns, now even ignorant baboons have come to know the truth about the true origins of flying machines, space travel, plastic surgery, mathematics, sexism, racism, religious bigotry and public toilets, which were all discovered and enshrined into glorious culture long ago by ancient sages of mighty Bhorat!
Thanks to recent scholarship sponsored by Bhoratiya Janata Party, it has even been discovered that the words `mystic` and `misogynist` come from same Sanskrit root: `-mis`, which means `I am always right, bitch`!
Certainly, Hitler was perfectly correct in exterminating pinko-leftie homosex snowflake foreigners, jews, darkies, muslims, commies and women and other subhumans, as per diktats of ancient holy books of India! Unfortunately, he forgot most important diktat of all occult societies: ”Orders must be obeyed at all times”, resulting in collapse of planned 10000-year yuga of superconsciousness!
Sadly, the ego, aided and abetted by the mind, has consistently laid waste to the Nine Men`s plans in the name of so-called freedom!
So, until now at least, humanity has not been able to fulfil its ultimate planned dharmic destiny of being supervised by occult secret police from birth and then frogmarched at the appropriate moment by jackbooted jnanis directly into the holy fire of moksha!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Happy Xmas!
It’s a whack story.
Possible angles:
1. It`s the real occult inside dope on what actually happened and/or Osho bought into it.
2. Osho was throwing in a bit of radical, edgy, avant-garde spiritual stuff to shock the listeners (shock value gets attention) and get a few digs in at his rival Krishnamurti as a bonus.
3. A device to blow your conditioned mind and kick you along the road to enlightenment. A test of faith. Are you devoted enough to listen to absolute crap and keep smiling knowingly because nothing really matters except enlightenment?
4. The rantings of a crazed cult leader in the making.
5. Subliminal hypnosis/suggestion: “You must surrender, don`t be independent.”
6 Getting Indians to feel good (wasn`t the original discourse in Hindi?) and proud that the guy Hitler who had the East “exhilarated when he was winning” was actually being managed by Indians. A bit like making Germans feel good that altho` Liverpool are the world champions, that`s because they have a German manager!
7. Giving old codgers a few decades later a chance to chuckle at the silliness of youth.
8. Like all religion, just a way of passing the time on the journey from here to here listening to some crazy stories. The crazier the better.
Frank, I reckon number 2 is closest to the mark.
‘There’s no such thing as bad publicity’ is often associated with Phineas T. Barnum, the 19th century American showman and circus owner. Osho was a bit of a ringmaster himself and would have agreed with Barnum. Nothing like saying that there was something positive about the Nazis to create a stir.
Perhaps going for an ‘All publicity is good if it is intelligent.’ stance would have been more…erm…intelligent.
Yeah, sampling “I am the gate” from Jesus (“I am the gate – whoever enters through me will be saved”) and mixing it with eulogies to Hitler`s occult powers was pretty out-there.
Very early 70s, really, like something off a Black Sabbath album.
Frank,
For me, all points have something.
7 and 8 are my favourites, plus 6.
Chögyam Trungpa’s ‘Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism’ comes to my mind…quite inspiring for sannyasins, too.
Link to the full text:
https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-WB1Fzh_m8LjpIk16/Cutting%20Through%20Spiritual%20Materialism_djvu.txt
Yours and Lokesh’s and Anand Yogi’s comments and raps have a lot of “cutting through” i.e. through sentimentality, romanticising, obscurity, dreaming, nonsense. Or so I guess.
I/We might have been “estoooooppidd” in previous lives.
I/We might/could/should/need not be so nowadays.
Cheers!
Klaus,
Thanks.
Yes, agreed. ‘Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism’ is a classic on the matter in question. Probably a must-read for any meditator who has been drawn into what are now sometimes known as `social dominance hierarchies`
The flaying knife is a powerful symbol of this, cutting the flesh off the body and seeing what`s inside. But to the orthodox, it`s just knife-crime!
Lokesh: “My current take on life is….”
This is wonderful! Good stance, wonderful perception.
I sense no negativity, no complaining and whining, no resistance there. Great accomplishment – inside. Congrats!
Your creativity with regard to sounds, books, children can also be highly appreciated. By the way: When will the last chapter be finished?
I wish I was “half of it” as I feel I need “meditation time as small breaks from a – rather tedious – life”: What goes up – must come down.
Hi Klaus, reading this just before I go into the village to visit a friend who I think is not destined for this world much longer. A beautiful creative man, so much in love with life. So off I go to pay my respects. Kind of puts things in perspective.
No hype here…just did not like it to go unnoticed.
Regards to your friend.
Certainly one can think that there must be mysterious forces behind it, if somebody who was a flop as a painter can become a leader of a country like Germany.
Osho and Hitler had both the same talent: they were good orators.
David Bowie said this about Hitler back in the 70s:
“Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars. Look at some of his films and see how he moved. I think he was quite as good as Jagger. It’s astounding. And boy, when he hit that stage, he worked an audience. Good God! He was no politician. He was a media artist. He used politics and theatrics and created this thing that governed and controlled the show for 12 years. The world will never see his like again. He staged a country.
People aren’t very bright, you know? They say they want freedom, but when they get the chance, they pass up Nietzsche and choose Hitler because he would march into a room to speak and music and lights would come on at strategic moments. It was rather like a rock ‘n roll concert. The kids would get very excited — girls got hot and sweaty and guys wished it was them up there. That, for me, is the rock ‘n roll experience.”
It sounds kind of familiar, doesn`t it?
Taste of fascism, anyone?
Personally, when I saw vids of Hitler when I was a teen I said, “He looks like a nutter on speed.”
Turns out I was more clairvoyant than the Nine Men!
That’s my perception, too. Huge a12345ole. And so many followers.
Yes, Satchit, brilliant observation. Hitler and Osho both sported distinct facial hair and wore funny hats. If Osho had not been a flop as a bricklayer there would no SN. Makes you think, doesn’t it?
As Osho once declared, “I have fallen in love with this man (Adolf Hitler). He was crazy, but I am crazier still.”
Personally, I think Osho was exaggerating.
Osho loving Hitler? Yeah, Loco, these kind of sentences are very efficient. You provoke the Germans and you provoke the Jews. They are used intentionally because provoking is a main job of a Master.
If you don’t provoke, you will remain an unknown Master.
The other day, when I met one of the Nine at the station, he told me that both had an awakened Kundalini. Must be the reason that they were attractive to the masses, is it not?
“Provoking is a main job of a Master”.
Satchit, who told you that? I do not agree. Could you please explain why being provocative is a main job of a master? After all, being provocative is easy. Any fool can be provocative.
You say, “If you don’t provoke, you will remain an unknown Master.” So what? Why does a master need to be known? Why is it important for a master to be known in the first place?
Perfectly correct, Satchit!
Masters such as Osho, Hitler must fulfil main function to provoke!
Donald Trump is also a Master!
He is provoking pinko-leftie, snowflake, bleeding-heart libtards as per diktats of holy books of mighty Bhorat!
Also racist football hooligans making monkey chants on terraces all over Europe are masters! Provoking baboons and giving taste of fascism in order to usher in new age of right-wing superconsciousness with Modi, Trump, Bolsonaro and Johnson at helm, following latest master plan of Nine Men to save the world from perverted tide of liberalism and individuality!
Certainly, the unconscious masses need strong provocative alpha master to put steel toe-capped boot up bass chakra to send kundalini energy up back of spine of masses!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Make Sannyas great again!
Good point. It’s arguable that Osho’s life would have been considerably longer and his potential influence greater (not least on his people) had he himself not been such a ‘provocateur’ and inspired his ‘community leaders’ (at the Ranch) to act likewise.
There’s a fine line between immense courage and foolhardiness, and such ‘playing with fire’, however gutsy and true, usually only has one ending, especially when you’re up against the most powerful rulers and vested interests on earth.
“If I want a revolution in human consciousness I will have to hammer on the heads of politicians as hard as possible…
A consious humanity cannot tolerate idiot politicians guiding it….”
https://www.osho.com/osho-online-library/osho-talks/politicians-climax-shankaracharyas-2546ea31-98a?p=68294fe923e0751111da8bb123a19cdc
These people will surely use their might to fight back.
Who told me that? Came out of understanding, Lokesh.
Main job of Master is to shatter the belief system. So what will happen to the German disciple if his Master says he loves Hitler?
Simple, he will get confused. Is Hitler the bad person, he has been told? Or shall he trust his Master?
It depends, if a Master has an ego, then it is always better to be known than to be unknown, is it not?
But certainly a Master will always say he does it out of compassion, to be known.
Believe it or not!
Satchit declares, “Main job of Master is to shatter the belief system.” This is a belief and therefore Osho was not successful in his main job as far as Satchit is concerned.
Satchit enquires, “So what will happen to the German disciple if his Master says he loves Hitler?” He then draws the conclusion that the German disciples will be confused. Satchit, if I really thought that Osho loved Hitler I would also be confused. Maybe Osho was also confused when he said that nonsense.
Satchit concludes, “It depends, if a Master has an ego, then it is always better to be known than to be unknown, is it not?” That is the point where I realised that I was out of my depth.
Loco, your wisdom is impressive!
“Main job of Masters is…” what?
Transformation?
It would be the bad luck of the students to miss it. If the Master remains unknown.
10 cents.
As it is said, “So much water has flown down the Ganges in all these years.”
World has changed 25 centuries during last 50 years span.
There is no Gateless Gate, plot is still the same No. 17, Koregaon Park, Pune, but the gate is gone. It is so obvious.
Surely people hooked with Osho’s books will discuss again and again that golden past. Neither article is inspiring nor the comments.
Happy Christmas.
Christians’ values down the centuries have done wonderful job to make life on earth beautiful compared to other belief factories. Their beliefs therefore have some Midas touch.
Shantam, are you aware of the wars and civil strife perpetrated in the name of Christianity over the centuries?
Have you any idea at all of the damage done to countless children and young people in so-called Christian schools?
Not to mention the appalling effects of ‘Christian morality’ on the sex lives of many generations in the West?
If you can’t be bothered with the research, I suggest you read ‘The Mustard Seed’, particularly perhaps the last page, where Osho clearly states how false the whole wretched thing is: “I don’t want you to be Christians – that is a lie.”
Shantam claims, “Christians’ values down the centuries have done wonderful job to make life on earth beautiful compared to other belief factories. Their beliefs therefore have some Midas touch.”
Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Shantam, have you been singing ‘Onward Chrictian Soldiers’ at the local church? How about all those Christians who bombed Iraq and Libya for no good reason? Hardly the Midas Touch. Or was that God´s will?
Another year and you’re still repeating the same old irresponsible, impotent, accusatory dirge. How utterly tedious.
Shantam, you thought you were in at the start of a new religion, a new structure, a new global institution, something to believe in, to belong to, even to be ‘looked after’ by, didn’t you? Thankfully, that’s not how it’s worked out, as there’s not that much left standing from ‘the good old days’ that can be corrupted the way religions invariably are.
Osho’s life and influence will still work powerfully for the good though, now and for generatioins to come, but in other ways, don’t worry about that. It doesn’t need officially authorised priests, rituals, belief systems, affiliation with temporal authorities and communities separate from the everyday world to flourish.
People inspired by Osho are free to create what they want, alone or with others – including you, by the way, Shantam.
Here`s a favourite expression of old Christianity:
“Post coitum omne animal triste est.”
(After sex, every animal is sad).
Someone like Shantam, once the post-coital tristesse set in, was always going to run back into the arms of organised religion. At the moment it`s Christianity. In the end it will be probably be back to the Gurdwara.
Basically, he`s a square.
As has come out many times on SN, his grasp of the history of the western world is embarrassingly ignorant.
No doubt he will now take refuge in the idea that he has “pressed buttons” with his absurd drivel.
It`s sad, really.
This is the beauty of Christian values, it did not hinder scientific study of various sectors. In a way, it all started from monasteries.
This is maturity given by Christianity, its people can raise questions and discard it completely yet get the rewards and benefits like foxes and crows of human society.
No other religion gives this liberty.
Tragic part is those who doubt Jesus as son of God, raise their arms to say, “Hay, Hay, Osho, You are never born, never died!”
Shantam, it’s the whole rotten institution, the priests and all their hypocritical moral bullshit down the ages that’s the problem. Whoever Jesus was has long ago been buried under all that utter crap, as well as under the impenetrable sands of time. Moreover, it’s not even completely certain that Jesus actually lived. It’s possible that he might be a fictional character, a myth that served the needs of that age.
So what’s so “tragic” about doubting the veracity of what has not been proved as fact? At least we know Osho was a real man of flesh and blood (and a whole lot more). It’s you who’s irrational, not those whom you criticise here.
“does not hinder scientific….”
Does it promote and support the ‘finding of the inner life’?
Discipline of “the outer” does not bring transformation, real inner/outer peace. In my opinion, only.
My perception is that there is very little power in this respect. Instead, there is rather a lot of suppression of the inner: letting it be dominated by outer requirements such as money, formalities, hierarchies, habits.
Where is the beauty in it? The tenderness, the non-violence, the smiles, the serenity, the celebration, the clarity?
My daughter sang in – a surprisingly rather full – church for the advent celebration of their music school…
The atmosphere I could sense there was like:
“Oh, it must be a long, long way to Tipperary.”
Medical discoveries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna
Here you go.
Fact is, Shantam, you don’t find spirituality in organizations.
But you find it in individuals.
Try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-Z2ffSgEU
MOD:
A translation would be useful, Satchit!
Yes, it would be useful, but I am short of time.
Take this one instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlqIZ_pqGAc
These utubes are of Anselm Grün.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Anselm_Gr%C3%BCn
He is a very successful author of approx 300 (!!) spiritual books, drawing on his knowledge as a Benedictine padre and his studies as a ‘Doctor of Theology’ plus ‘Business Adminsitration’. He is the economic manager of the priory ‘Muensterschwarzach’ near Wuerzburg/Germany:
https://www.abtei-muensterschwarzach.de/
He is also a public speaker in high demand.
To my knowledge, he also draws on the philosophy of Zen as per Graf Duerkheim, psychology of CG Jung, as well as ‘mindfulness’ etc:
https://www.capital.de/karriere/4-dinge-die-man-von-pater-anselm-gruen-lernen-kann
U might like to run this text through a translating program like:
http://www.reverso.net/text_translation.aspx?lang=EN
“But just like Krishnamurti became independent at the last moment, Hitler also became independent.”
And Sheela also became independent. Self-appointed chairman sitting on the property created with donations and fees from dubious courses also became Independent.
Rise and fall of Neo-Sannyas is simply spectacular, we have seen it happening, and many became wise after being duped.
This seems to be purpose of evolution: create, destroy and recreate from the debris.
Jesus, the son of God. That’s a good one. Reminds me of my current fave song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GffG2f_f5S0
Jesus had a son:
https://youtu.be/-9csUBxxWeI
And it came to pass that Shantam didst wander into the local tabernacle of the son of God at Christmas tide and didst plant his ample buttocks on one of the pews thereof.
Verily, as he nodded off after a hefty Xmas dinner of 2 for 1 Lidl meat pies and cut-price Stollen, the voice of God came unto him and spake to him thus:
“Blessed are the Christian values for they have sanctified the dole-scroungers, who toil not, neither do they work, but I say to you, not even Solomon in all his glory received as many free hand-outs.
Blessed are the gora girls for, thanks to the mercy of Our Lord, they are all gagging for it and are really up for it.
Blessed are the scientists for they have never had any trouble like being burnt at the stake, excommunicated, silenced or anything like that.
Blessed are those who are reviled and persecuted on Sannyasnews, for at least they are getting some attention.
Sufficient unto the day is the medication thereof.”
And Shantam was sore amazed at the bounty of the Christian God and didst marvel, thinking: “This is all way better than 2 stale chapattis and a plate of gruel at the Gurudwara and being stuck with the same local girl your whole life.”
And he didst fall at the feet of the Son of God saying: ”Your religion is the dog’s bollocks, you can get away with pretty much anything cos you`re so desperate for converts. Sign me up to the resurrection, Padre.”
Jesus wept.
Amen
Tom Holland, historian, suggests in this video (at 29 minutes onwards, I think), that the West would be more like India without Christianity:
https://youtu.be/a0xCs2EfiXA
Which reminds me of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tw7LIykvBw
…or this one:
‘Leap of Faith’ 1992 – with Steve Martin as Jonathan Nightingale
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104695/
“I’ve been lonely, I’ve been cheated,
I’ve been misunderstood
I’ve been washed up, I’ve been put down,
And told I’m no good
But with you I belong,
Cause you help me be strong,
There’s a change in my life,
Since you came along.”
Song here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_lVfBwmNjM
Lyrics here:
https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/John-Pagano/Change-in-My-Life
To see the reality of this part, one needs to go through personal archives of those in attendance to Hitler.
I am about to complete his ‘Mein Kampf’ and it involves the part where he ponders on logo.
If the 9 men controlled him, it is clear from his book that he has no idea, this much is easy to say.
This person was quite uneducated:
“Adolf H.’s Early Years
Adolf H., born on April 20, 1889 in the Austrian town of Braunau, came from small backgrounds.
His father was a customs official, but he left behind so much money when he died in 1903 that his widow and his son could make a living.
H. abandoned school after the 9th grade and initially stayed in Linz with his mother, whom he was very attached to.
Her death in December 1907 undoubtedly represented the most significant break in his youth.
He moved to Vienna, but failed with his attempts to become a student at the Vienna Academy of Art.
As an “artist” and “writer”, he led a disoriented, idle, merciless life, and earned money with odd jobs and sales….”
Original here:
https://www.bpb.de/izpb/137186/aufstieg?p=all
On a spiritual level I would rate him as low, very low, absolutely low.
How could such a person consciously have known anything about “higher realms”?
If these “nine persons” had been ‘Buddhist masters’ I would say:
“Oh, my gawd. Better find other ones.”
Re. the part of the story about Krishnamurti being groomed by the Theosophicals and then at the last moment asserting his individuality and walking away from his world teacher throne and declaring himself an individual:
Osho said “He came on the pulpit to surrender himself and to become so empty that Maitreya could come in. But at the last moment he denied surrender. No one around him could think that this was going to happen. Not even a hint was given that Krishnamurti, in the last step, would fail and come back.”
I must have absorbed this one from Osho and was surprised when I read biographies of Krishnamurti some years ago and discovered that the actual story was very different.
What really happened, briefly, was that K decided well in advance to give the Theosophicals, led by Annie Besant and Bishop Leadbeater, the slip and create his own organisation run by himself so that he could continue as a teacher on his own.
(“Bishop” Leadbeater was a full-blown paedophile who managed to dodge police in several continents altho` they knew about him, giving the word ‘grooming’ a darker, more modern tone).
This took K a long time of planning, canvassing, letter writing and people shifting allegiances. It was a political story that took some years, in fact, and decidedly not the Hollywood=ending that has him walking away from the podium at the last moment. (Altho` he did give the famous “Truth is a pathless land” speech at the last moment when his alternative future was set up.
Staying with the plan of the Nine Men would have meant being managed by a paedo who had abused many of the children in his charge, some say K and his brother Nitya included, altho`K never came clean about it. (Maybe the Nine Men are a paedophile ring, too. That`s the bit that’s so occult that you never hear about it at all!).
K instead did his own number and actually went on to have a lengthy loving (by all accounts) relationship with Rosalind, even tho it was his publisher`s wife.
Only an idiot or a paedo would think he made the wrong choice, imv.
Human stories are messy and chaotic, even when it comes to world teachers, gurus and the rest.
Supernatural occult Hari Potter stories are ok for a bit of diversion, but like watching soaps on the telly, to take them as reality is not too bright.
Once Buddha’s soul also got shelter in Bhagwan´s body. It is not mentioned in Buddhist scriptures but in Osho´s literature, his self-assertion.
As I see it, Gautam Buddha´s greatness is too much over-hyped by this wish to be his worthy successor.
One famous south Indian guru creating rags-to-riches story sold himself as Kalki, a self-cooked mythological story that Gautam Siddharth will be born again after 2500 centuries as Kalki Avatara.
It seems Indian gurus leave behind great scriptwriters. “I leave you my dream”, “never born, never died” are such great dialogues by modern scriptwriters well versed in English!
Somehow I really think that probably, even though K called off the ‘Order of the Star in the East’,* thanks to the earnest efforts of the founding members of the Theosophhical Society the goal was actually reached, shockingly (by K declaring himself an individual)!
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Star_in_the_East .
Who knows, founders of Theosophical Society are reborn and are the brains behind Google, Uber, Airbnb, Amazon kind of true world leaders?!
There’s probably more chance of those being born as the current OIF chiefs!
Kavita,I think you are probably right there.
The whole story has such an air of folie de grandeur running through it.
“Bishop” Meatbeater`s proclivities were known to Annie Besant, who reinstated him to the TS after he had been rumbled.
Then she sued K`s dad for control of K (granted in a British colonial court).
What a crew!
The same kind of people are kicking around today. Not just in the established religions like the Catholic Church but in New Age circles.
Religion, eh?
Bloody `ell!
“Then she sued K`s dad for control of K (granted in a British colonial court).”
Frank, if I correctly remember, some two decades ago reading in Mary Lutyens’s ‘Krishnamurti:The Years of Awakening ‘/ ‘Krishnamurti:The Years of Fulfilment’, that first it was K’s father who claimed for K’s cusdody in an Indian court.
Again the ignorant baboons of Sannyas News opine about spiritual matters of which they know nothing!
In mighty Bhorat, when true servant of God has reached divine status and become avatar, everything he does is holy!
Therefore, when Sai Baba demanded holy oil to be rubbed into holy lingam and buggered his young disciples into state of no-mind, it is as an act of grace, a gift from God for advancement of disciples towards Moksha whilst also teaching them holy value of observing silence in deference to the God!
Same with Bishop Leadbeater, who was clearly being guided by Nine Unknown Pedos of Mighty Bhorat! The unconscious baboons of the West could not understand and this also infected holy Bhorat: Headlines even appeared in Hindu News of the World:
”Meatbeater teaches child disciples to bash the bishop!”
Of course there were some ignorant baboons and parents of receivers of divine nectar who, being corrupted by perverse western ideas, wanted to sue Baba and Leadbeater in the courts! Their utterly egoistic ideas, encapsulated in the godless slogan “Metoo”, are a serious threat to true religion up until today!
Fortunately for the future of consciousness, in mighty Bhorat even Police and Judges have correct grasp of true religion and after few rituals involving incense, brown envelopes stuffed with holy parchment and punishments for evil-doers who speak against God, it all turned out perfectly correctly!
Thus, the Nine Unknown Pedos of mighty Bhorat remained unknown which is an absolute must for the future welfare of humanity as has been tirelessly proclaimed by the Nine themselves!
Also, perfectly correct, Kavita!
Story of spiritual court-cases from Theosophical times up till present day shows that it is absolutely necessary, vital for tradition of nitty-gritty details of the future spiritual welfare of humanity to be eternally decided by lawyers!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Yes, AY, seems Lawyers are the only ones who have had a bull market, from time immemorial & continue to!
Yogi, that is nonsense.
The actual headline in the Hindu News of the World was:
“Nine unknown men caught bashing bishop in occult circle akashik CCTV sting.
Meatbeater held and later discharged.”
As it’s New Year’s Eve, we interrupt this serious discussion for some music, all the way from Russia…
https://loveosho.com/blog-1/music-for-the-master
(With thanks to Love Osho, who published this in June 2015).
I came across this recently.
It`s an excerpt from an interview with Jung talking about Hitler in 1939:
“There is no question but that Hitler belongs in the category of the truly mystic medicine man. As somebody commented about him at the last Nürnberg party congress, since the time of Mohammed nothing like it has been seen in this world.
His body does not suggest strength. The outstanding characteristic of his physiognomy is its dreamy look. I was especially struck by that when I saw pictures taken of him in the Czechoslovakian crisis; there was in his eyes the look of a seer.
This markedly mystic characteristic of Hitler’s is what makes him do things which seem to us illogical, inexplicable, and unreasonable.
So you see, Hitler is a medicine man, a spiritual vessel, a demi-deity or, even better, a myth.”
Sounds more than a little similar to the Hitler/Nine Men story.
The link between gurus/wise men and dictatorial politics has a recurring history.
Swami Arun has been keen to eulogise Modi, saying stuff like `strong individuals are needed to lead nations to their destiny` and rationalising the murderous, racist or sectarian sides, not to mention the perverse ‘Zorba the Buddha’ appellation.
Apart from the Hitler/Nine Men rap, Osho spoke enthusiastically in Pune 2 about the necessity of Stalin`s efforts to preserve the great experiment of communism.
This is not to mention all the Hitler sympathising that has been recorded in the world of other Indian gurus.
Unfortunately, the power that gurus and bigshot psychotherapists wield is not entirely dissimilar to that which dictators wield. For better or for worse, they all seek to control and modify others’ reality.
Watch out, kids!
What is all this proclivity to compare and identify with mythical religious leaders and identities (Mohammed/Buddha/Aryan dreams/Glorious Hindu past etc)?
Everyone who buys in buys in with the same emotional set-up and gets the same pay-off, the classic psycholological shifts of fascism:
Inferiority turns to superiority (losers, outsiders become master race/chosen few). Shame turns to pride, what a buzz! Depression turns to aggression, here we go…low level ass needs kicking…
Yahoo! Zieg heil!
Many people object, saying, for example, stuff like: “But look at what Arun has created – a set of communes. While you are sitting on your arse criticising, he`s getting out and doing it.”
Well, that is exactly the argument that is always used to justify dictators – Hitler built the autobahn and restored the volk`s pride, Mussolini made the trains run on time, Modi is presiding over India`s unprecedented growth etc. etc. And did you ever see what ISIS had actually got together in the Middle East? It was incredible -they had a whole infrastructure, financial system, ministries the size of a couple of countries running like clockwork in their caliphate.
Faceless Frank, you can take Arun, can you dare to do likewise to his late boss?
When people are so afraid they need a mask to scream, something must be wrong with their thoughts, with their environment, with their upbringing.
There is no Sheela without her Bhagwan, there is no Bhagwan without adoring crowd.
Life continuous….
That’s crap, Frank.
Nobody forces you to become a follower of a guru who controls you. Nobody forces you to believe in some ‘Nine Men’ stuff.