- WHAT SANNYAS NEWS NEEDS TO CARRY ON: FUNDING THIS SITE – AN APPEAL FOR DONATIONS!
- Regulars at SN might well have already read this as it was first put up at the Caravanserai page nearly four weeks ago,. Now there’s an SN email address included at the end for contacting Clive re any payment you might wish to contribute. Plus an additional note re his wish to ‘retire’ from official ownership of the site.
- As readers may recall, Clive/Jitendra (despite otherwise having no connection with SN) has paid all necessary costs, including annual website fees and for vital maintenace work since Parmartha left us last year. Without this contribution, also including practical technical assistance and advice, SN probably wouldn’t have continued.
- The fees have amounted to just over £500 (invoices available) and the ongoing annual costs will be around 270, nearly £200 of which is paid to a security firm, but which might not be necessary if our WordPress was updated (which Clive doesn’t have enough expertise to do himself).
- Clive no longer wants this involvement so if someone knows how to handle Word Press and would like to take on mainteance of the site, please let us know. That would make SN’s future survival a piece of cake.
- Clive is also the official ‘owner’ of the site, a responsibility he took on in the ‘emergency’ following Parmartha’s passing, but this has always been a temporary arrangement, especially as his interests lie elsewhere, so SN needs someone else to take on this responsibility, preferably asap. This would entail financial responsibility amounting to about £270 per year (or, as noted above, £70 if we have our own maintenance person) which, we trust, should be straightforward enough to raise each year from readers.
- So, now it’s time to repay Clive£500 (or as much as we can) and make sure SN continues. All donations are welcome, of course, it’s entirely up to you (and all such details will be kept private),
- Please email Clive at sannyasnews@sannyasnews.org and he will reply himself with options on how to pay.
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This is not just about sannyasnews — this is a sign of things to come, soon.
In the next 20 years, as soon as the sannyasins who have met Osho die (they are all in their 70s) — the Sannyas movement will die a natural death. This is because young people are looking for a living master – not a dead carcass. And also young people don’t want to be exploited financially by older sannyasins.
In the 70s, in Pune, young people were welcomed by Osho, even if they had little money. Now the same people, who received everything for free — have become therapists and are charging exorbitant prices. The Resort is charging exorbitant prices.
The Sannyas movement will die because of selfishness and greed.
Of course, there are a few young people who are attracted to the Sannyas movement, but their number is relatively small. It’s mostly wealthy professionals who see meditation as a hobby.
Young people are going to live with Mooji, Sadhguru.
Can you blame them?
They want a living master.
You, old sannyasins, met Osho in the flesh. You did not meet him on a tv screen. Young people want the full guru experience – with a living guru, in the flesh.
The Sannyas movement needs to die a natural, very timely, death. Osho’s movement was destroyed by the greed of some of his sannyasins.
Kudos to Jitendra for keeping sannyasnews afloat.
Yet his attitude is very typical. He basically does not give a f..k. He doesn’t care one bit.
I really hope the Sannyas movement is dead soon. I am eagerly reading the obituary section on Osho News – and watch the s..thouse disintegrate.
The time of dead carcasses is over. Religions are dead, dead masters are dead. People will be looking for living gurus from now on. This is what I see – young people have the tendency to seek living gurus.
A guru is a fashion accessory for most people anyway: “I have a guru, therefore I am a little closer to enlightenment.”
Osho taught meditation. His disciples are teaching therapy.
Of course, there will be a small number of people who will continue to practise Osho’s therapies. Just as there is a small number of people who are still listening to Krishnamurti’s teachings. Dead disciples of a dead master. But there will not be an explosion of interest and acceptance of Osho’s teachings.
Osho is outdated anyway. He was speaking to hippies in the 70s. So much has changed, the Internet revolution has completely changed us — it is similar to Guttemberg’s invention of printing. The collective psyche has made a giant leap.
Yet Osho is still there, stuck with some dirty druggie hippies in the ’70s. Most of you don’t realise it, but his message is already outdated. You don’t realise it because you yourself are old and outdated. Young people are living the Internet revolution.
What is happening to sannyasnews will be happening to the Sannyas movement in the next 20 years. Just watch. A small number of people will still carry the torch, out of nostalgia. But it will just be a small sect who carry a dead carcass.
I know many Osho centres in Italy and Germany which closed down for financial reasons in the last few years. This is another symptom. The reason they closed: the old sannyasins were giving therapy groups at exorbitant prices, and relying on these therapy groups to finance the centre.
Young people were not having it, they did not sign up for these groups. So when the groups did not have enough customers — there was no money. When there was no money — the Osho centres closed down.
Osho centres closing down is another symptom that young people are not interested.
I am an Osho disciple, and I meditate with Osho’s photo and I think Osho’s energy is immortal. I’m just sad to see some sannyasins completely destroy the movement out of selfishness and greeed.
Perfectly correct, Karam!
Dirty, druggie hippies of the 70s smoking chillums made out of dead carcasses have become greedy exploitative therapists, rapists and therapriests and destroyed Osho`s vision!
Now young people who need to have master cult experience of being conned and having ass banged have to go to Mooji and Sadhguru!
Who can blame them? The collective psyche has made a giant leap. been transformed by internet, but they still need to witness living master having live explosion in pants and grabbing young firm bottoms of female disciples!
They do not need to have wallet ripped by druggie past-sell-by date hippies who are greedily grabbing young firm bottoms of female disciples in therapy group designed by stoned 70s hippies!
Meanwhile, carcasses such as yourself have no firm young bottoms to grab! It is utterly selfish and greedy of these people not even allowing sloppy seconds for small minority who are still carrying torch!
Certainly, Karam, these past-their sell-by-date baboons like Jitendra and SN regulars don`t give a fuck about dead carcasses!
Unlike you who has been changing the world by staring blankly at dog-eared photo of dead master for past 30 years and eagerly awaiting own obituary in Osho News!
Certainly, you have absorbed master`s message and attained to the true wisdom of mighty Bhorat:
Everything is shit and we are all going to die!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Karam, could you prove that the price increase cannot depend on macro-economic issues?
Could you exclude that the young seekers from countries in economic growth cannot replace the old sannyasins of the first hour?
Does it seem like a good method, based on price and ignoring efficiency/effectiveness, comparing the brief therapy of an Osho group, which often includes food and housing, with psychiatric, medication-based therapy that often lasts years?
It seems to me that your reasoning is that of an old Hippy 70s carcass, who doesn’t want to change lifestyle or attitude.
I’m not sure you’re completely right here, Karam, although you make good points re how expensive the Pune ashram has become, about therapists having ‘taken over’ there and elsewhere, and how young people want (and I’d say, need) to be with a living master.
As far as I know, the Sannyas movement is flourishing in countries like India, Nepal, Japan and Russia, also perhaps elsewhere. Maybe someone that knows more about it can clarify this?
But, according to what I’ve heard from another master:
On another level, I don’t think it matters ultimately whether the ‘Sannyas Movement’, as it is or has been, continues or not, as what really counts is that Osho’s words and his very being (his “immortal” energy, as you say, Karam) have penetrated the human psyche – through us, the hundreds of thousands who have been influenced by him, have heard and read him, imbibed his presence – so that his work and its fruits have become a psycho-spiritual ‘resource’, as it were, for the benefit of all present and future people.
That, beyond the impermanence of any temporary set-up, will surely work for the good of the human race, and is and will be the lasting value of his having been here, his most valuable legacy.
I don’t think this is really the case, Karam. There are certainly several sannyasins who claim enlightenment and attract signficant numbers of spiritual seekers. Surely this spiritual lineage, not to mention his books or meditations, is Osho’s real ‘legacy’, much more than any so-called ‘movement’ as such.
This celebration gives a flavour of Sannyas:
https://youtu.be/zOaQK0LUbmk
Another point here is that one can get mistaken if they think that sannyasins in old bodies simply disappear.
They will be reborn in new bodies, and those who are very much attached to Osho will be likely to discover Osho again in the next life.
Here’s Samdarshi for Veet:
https://youtu.be/vjC2mClCOvI
It`s true.
Osho`s got more tribute bands than Father Xmas!
Well, whatever they started out like, the ones that got fully enlightened all invariably seem to end up with a bald head, longish hair and white beard.
Perhaps it’s ok to be bald if your’e enlightened cos you still get lots of chicks!
No need for the Jamaican black castor oil then.
“They will be reborn in new bodies, and those who are very much attached to Osho will be likely to discover Osho again in the next life.”
This is a tricky area for speculation though, SS, especially as the question of ‘true identity’ arises, ie who exactly is it that ‘returns’? Certainly not the ‘personality’ with its emotional ups and downs, thoughts, preferences, fears etc. etc.
And, notwithstanding ‘attachment to Osho’ (as what? A sort of ‘crutch’, another sort of ‘belief’? Or profound love?), perhaps the “next birth” might be in a totally different set-up, requiring other modes of experience, other means of (hopefully) learning, the ways of Life being inscrutable.
I`ve just ordered my new bespoke body for my next life from my tailor at ‘Akashik Couturiers’ down at the New World shopping centre. The tailor, an Indian bloke with a beard, measured me up and has assured me I will have a sartorial satori when I get reborn in this outfit.
Serendipitously, as I walked out of the shopping centre, “I wish it could be Christmas every day” by Slade blared out on the PA.
Who says stuff from the 70s can`t live forever?
Can`t wait to read my obituary in Oshonews. By then, I`ll probably have my own ashram.
Swaha!
Yes, well, I don’t really know, SD, if we do get reborn. But I still guess that we do.
Although not as us, these people as we are here and now, of course. Not the same bodies, different parents, and a different set of planetary influences probably influencing our lives as well.
I’m not so sure if karma really exists as some sort of divine rebalancing and retribution service, however. The complexities are all a bit too much for us humans to ponder and try to figure out how these things work. Unless we take blind faith in old scriptures.
But attachment to Osho comes in many different forms. Often it is quite healthy and can lead to intellectual and spiritual development.
Re karma, SS, I recommend Barry Long’s 90 minutes talk, ‘The Law of Life, Karma’, which I first heard in 1984/5 and which opened up my understanding of the mystery of how it works ‘rather a lot’, as it were. A major consciousness-raising talk, as I recall.
Thanks . I’ll have to take a look at that some time.
Sw. Shanti distinguishes at least 3 groups of sannyasins, those attached to Osho who are waiting for a reincarnation and those who have reshaped their devotion (or libido) around a living master, possibly one who improvises on the master carcass’s repertoire.
The third group includes those who claim to be detached and pleased spectators of the other two, people whose narrow vision prevents them from seeing all the other options.
Oh dear!
The one-legged guy in the shallows on the broken pedalo is dreaming about being a missionary in Christopher Columbus` crew
again!
Oh dear, perhaps what attracted your attention is not a leg, and in any case even pretending to have three legs will not help you for the distance from head to heart.
Btw, will you pay (and how much) the ticket to continue shitting on the Master’s boat or will you find the courage to do without and join the proud nihilist community?
I might become the new owner then you will have to rent your pedalo from me!
Frankly, Frank, I don’t think it’s the best choice for a parasite with an extra leg like you. Selling means talking positively about something or someone, it is not among your talents.
At most, you could own an umbrella with deckchairs and speak ill of the retarded pedalo renters, those who ignore that there is a sea without choice, between the inner and outer one.
Hey,
I am not “in my 70s” and my meditation is going perfectly well.
If we did put it together, we could even go a long way. Smiley.
We can also beat it with Mooji, Gangaji, Eli, Shanti, Pyar, Prem, OM, Supriya, Madhukar, Arthur, Osho, Amma, you, I, satsangwithlisa, Jhanananda, Jack Kornfield and all the others that can be schnoogled and and and…
Watch out for group dynamics everywhere, i.e. (s)exploitation etc.
Wherever you will find quality. That’s the way to go.
In any case, there is a price to pay. Which one?
Being asked to give a voluntary ‘Dhana’, in my opinion is not
“exploitation”. Please differentiate.
Hi Karam,
Didn´t respond to your take in particular so far, but this very early Sunday morning got an inner call to give it a try.
In Gratefulness for a Californian Artist (Louie Schwartzberg his name) on one of these inumerable TED talks…
“We protect”, he says, “what we fall in Love with” and his work in shift moving images (as a film-maker and commentator) is truly worth hearing and viewing too.
I´d like to share that with you. From Now-and-Here.
If you are still a reader, somebody, one who´s up to receiving roo*?
Then and there (and you can ´google Louie´s website), there is a chance you´re catching the drift that old age, young age, appearing re disappearing, the whole evolutionary happenings of the Living are not revealed in any war-like scenarios, ´takes.
We all need – at ANY age – to be reminded of such Preciousness every now and then and sometimes it happens from some unexpected corner, doesn´t it?
Madhu
I forgive you for your stalkings and scapegoatings, Madhu.
( •́ ⍨ •̀)
Thank God, someone else has written what I am writing for last 10 years.
Simple fact, people who went closer to Osho were the enemies in grab of friends; flies around the open sweets.
Sounds like you brothers have forgotten to get a life unto yourself as per the flow of the One Man Rappin`:
Big Bhag-daddy gangsta with the bling-bling`s gone
he sung his song then moved right along
now you scrapin` at his empty bong
lookin’ for scraps for you to fly upon…
find yourself a sense of humour
or you gonna grow yourself a tumour
listenin` to way too many rumours
about what happened to who what when where in Poona
listen up to my mind and get enlightened sooner…
your religionless religion is a drop-dead-ender
time to recognise your own agenda…
your brain is goin`funky
time to kick bein` a satsang junkie
keep your own money, feed your own beast
preacher teachers fleece sheep as they bleach
and enlightenment stays well out of reach
don`t sell your soul to a leech
have some self-respect at least
get to a resort with a beach
read yourself some Friedrich Nietzsche…
meditate celebrate imaginate
don’t be a thinkin-celibate
raise your vibrations to a higher rate
love your fate don’t be an ingrate…
get down on the streetless street
out in the world where they turnin` up the heat
give the slip to the ubermensch elite
keep it invisible keep it discreet
deep in the maya and out in the buddhahood
samsara is nirvana…mm…good….
Frank! WOW! Happy rapping!
Thanks, –
Madhu
P.S:
Unfortuanately, need to go to see a ‘medicine-woman’ today-soon, and that means to leave my desktop-Apple notebook here…
We need to be grateful to Karam too, don´t we? His name´s meaning is mentioned in Egypt, Kurdistan and India as “big-hearted”, “generosity” and one can say, can´t we, that he is owning it although as a “revolutionary” and to put that in a Rap, the way you created it, seems to be very convenient.
Madhu says, “We need to be grateful to Karam too, don´t we?”
The mind boggles. Such a comment has completely put me off getting a lobotomy.
You did not understand my take, not at all, Lokesh. But irony up to sarcasm – if not coming from your own desktop – is not worth it.
You already waited for a while to release some steam in my direction.
Ma Ganga impressed you, didn´t she?
How about inviting her to your Ibicenco Finca?
Madhu
Madhu, perhaps you are not making yourself understood.
You say, “We need to be grateful to Karam too, don´t we?”
Do we? Why?
Bong, the rule here has always been to register before being allowed to have posts published. If your posts (or some of them) were put up without you having registered then that was an admin error. In fact, I recall Parmartha discussing your case and pointing out that you weren’t a registered user.
Besides this, you do yourself no favours by childish insults, nor by repeatedly sending in irrelevant-to-the-topic posts and then complaining when they’re rejected. You’re not a ‘special case’, although you seem to imagine you are.
Register and write relevant posts and there’ll be no problem.
And btw, no, this thread is not about wholesale change here, it’s about SN’s survival.
Shantam declares, “Thank God, someone else has written what I am writing for last 10 years.”
Shantam, I would not sound so pleased about that because, even though it contains elements of truth, Karam’s post is very cynical and pretty shoddily written.
Karam says, “A guru is a fashion accessory for most people anyway: “I have a guru, therefore I am a little closer to enlightenment.””
Really, man, I do not agree with that. To say that is to be looking from a very cynical viewpoint. Most people I know who are involved with a guru are sincere – definitely not seeking a fashion accessory. That is bullshit.
Karam claims, “the Internet revolution has completely changed us.”
Yeah, well, I do not feel that way. What the fuck does the internet have to do with someone’s story with a guru, alive or dead? Absolutely nothing.
The beat goes on….
You are right, Sir Lokesh.
I feel that it’s more rhan cynical: it is even nasty, including some hatred.
What can we do?
In my typical Devil´s advocate role, I request or challenge Karam to be honest and share your biographical details and introduce yourself.
Onus is always on the individual to be truthful, fair, just honest. Writing by hiding behind the bushes is not the way.
I can assure the bloggers this character is not created by me, though he has written similar contents.
Shantam, if someone does not wish to declare their identity it really is none of your business.
People have the right to know whether the one who is carrying the gun is a soldier or a terrorist.
Spiritual writer is not journalist, even journalists write with their head held high.
Surely this much aware I am, not to ask anonymous people to share their biography while writing about state affairs in Putin´s Russia.
This is one main reason why Sannyas has lost its mojo: other than the late boss, everybody looks for cover.
Shantam, this has nothing to do with metaphorical soldiers and terrorists and has everything to do with people’s right to hide their identity if they wish. Surely that really is not so hard for you to understand. You have been banging on about this for ages and it is a bit of a stupid issue. This is a free society that does not encourage dictators, like yourself.
You say, “This is one main reason why Sannyas has lost its mojo.”
Utter nonsense.
Sounds like medication time again at the Swiss sanatorium!
“Sannyas has lost its mojo” is a softer version. The reality is as rootless as faceless Frank. All bullshit, no walk.
Duck….
“Sannyas has lost its mojo” means simply that you live in the past.
Oh, how beautiful was the past when Osho was alive!
It was perfect paradise!
And, we were all much younger than today!
Think positive.
Buy the T shirt.
Shantam, you are simply stating the obvious.
Many people are thinking these things, but they keep their mouth shut — because the OIF is now monitoring Facebook posts, and if anyone says anything critical about the OIF they get banned from the Resort.
Not everyone wants to deal with backlash from idiots, so this is why I decline to reveal my identity.
Many people who have been harassed by the OIF are thinking the same things.
Karam,
No need, in my opinion, for anyone to be defensive.
I do not believe that Osho is somehow concentrated in a ‘Resort’.
It is a funny idea.
So I do not worry about organisational things.
Feel the mojo.
I don’t see anyone donating.
The actual cost of maintaining the website is 70 quid, the cost of the domain name.
Very basic WordPress skills are needed, something you can learn in an afternoon. Because Jitendra couldn’t be bothered to do it, he paid someone 200 quid to do it for him.
Let’s see if this website dies.
The point of my post was to provoke an honest conversation and self-reflection. Instead, people are taking it personally.
Let’s see if this website dies. And we talk again in 20 years’ time, and you will see that I was right.
Osho was an authentic enlightened master — unlike Mooji or Sadhguru or other fakes. Unfortunately, the greed and selfishness of his sannyasins are destroying his legacy.
Karam, let me put you right on several basic points, because you’re making claims that are based on ignorance of the facts (which, I suggest, is hardly a ‘meditative’, let alone a practical way to go about things).
First, if you read the article you’ll see that anyone who wishes to donate is asked to email Clive/Jitendra via a sannyasnews email address so they can deal with him directly. And all under confidential terma, not to be published here, although SN will eventually say how much has been raised.
Second, there have been six or seven positive responses so far, not too bad for just a couple or so days.
Third, you clearly have no idea at all what state this site was in after (and even for a while before) the late owner/editor, Parmartha, passed away in July last year. It was in a complete technical mess, largely due to the lack of regular maintenance due to the previous tech guy (Dharmen/Brian) suffering a lengthy illness leading to his leaving the scene a year before.
Into that stepped Clive, who was already very busy with personal commitments, including writing a novel (shortly to be published) and coping with the deaths of several people close to him. Parmartha had asked him to help, if possible, with the site, although Clive has no WordPress skills or training, there being no one else available.
Fourth, that he (without any personal interest in SN or even in Sannyas itself) has had the generosity to give precious time to teach himself the basics of WordPress and to do what he could to help improve the site’s functioning, as well as pay a firm to do what was beyond his limited knowledge, is worthy of praise and gratitude rather than the sort of slanderous put-down you’ve come up with.
He “couldn’t be bothered to do it”? An uninformed statement that conveniently fits with the general tone of your narrative. Perhaps now, Karam, you might “be bothered” to offer an apology to him?
Fifth, I see you haven’t bothered to deal with any of the individual responses to your article, which cover various shades of opinion, points of view. This tends to make you appear as something of a ‘fanatic’, so utterly convinced you’re “right” that nothing else is worthy of consideration. Yet you claim here that you want “to provoke an honest conversation”. Over to you then…Let’s see if you’re up to it….
I support your reproaches with regard to an existing hierarchie:
the leaders
the top dogs
the therap(r)i(e)sts
the elders
the management
Even the Dalai Lama has announced that the tradition of
the “Dalai Lama” will end as it represents and re-creates a hierarchy.
So it seems to be a hindrance on the spiritual path to distinguish
between normal people and more normal people and holy and more holy people.
Bhagwan saw/sees himself as a “friend among friends”. IMHO he has the capacity to be thus. Love and compassion and intelligence and freedom – so no need to create a feeling of higher and lower.
If hierarchy still exists or is re-created in places what could be the motiv?
Money and income, status, exploitation (profit vs. salary) and so forth.
In an ideal world we take each other as equal individuals with the same (human) rights.
That is a very holy wish.
Where can we find it?
If we are not putting each other down – or up – then thats it.
Besides, there may be “horizontal” reasons in order to have an organisation running.
I stepped away from quite a few organisation as I felt not being on an equal level or treated fairly.
But then again: one is free to move on.
Is Bhagwan the only authentically enlightened Master?
I say: No.
Link to the “Dalai Lama” tradition information:
https://gstf.org/category/dalai_lama/
Osho also hated the idea of his words being exploited.
“Rajneeshism is dead. I wanted it to be dead before I drop my body. This has happened for the first time… and I wanted it to happen because I wanted to be certain that only the fragrance remains, not a dead structure, because the fragrance cannot be represented by the priests and the popes, and the fragrance cannot create religions…
Seeing the situation, I declared Rajneeshism, the religion, dead before my eyes. Now there is no Rajneeshism, but only a fragrance. You cannot catch hold of it in your fist; you cannot make a dogma out of it. You can enjoy it, you can love it, you can sing it, you can dance with it and it will not be a bondage to you; it will bring more and more freedom to you.And now it is never going to die. Once it has died, now it has become an eternal fragrance.”
Osho: `Socrates Poisoned Again After 25 Centuries`
His presence is available everywhere. Is the Resort still soaked in it? I expect so. But you don`t need five-star pool parties, expensive cuisine and aircon meditation pyramids to catch it.
Yesterday, after listening to some sweet Bhajan in the North of India at Baba Purnanands Ashram, I came across this video:
https://youtu.be/R1x4HL1ivRQ
Mod, can you paste the YouTube link into my reply above as a video frame, pls?
MOD:
If you tell me how, yes!
It’s something to do with the toolbox and ‘press this’.
MOD:
Where’s the toolbox?
It is kind of a non-spoken rule amongst those who know where it is, that they don’t like to speak about it. And there are several people here who know how to add videos and images to their posts. But won’t tell you how it’s done.
There is some kind of secret initiation ceremony, but it is not biting the head of a live chicken. But it is something like that.
But, I expect it would make this website more user-friendly, and encourage people, if users were able to post images, videos, as well as enjoy the kind of editing privileges that only Lokesh currently is allowed to use, such as editing and deleting tools. Perhaps that would encourage sannyasins who who are afraid to contribute.
MOD:
Swamishanti, these proposals will be looked at, although we wouldn’t be prepared to open up the entire site to anyone or everyone (too risky, not everyone respects the responsibilty that’s the price of freedom).
Yes. SN obviously isn’t that popular anyway. If it disappears, or if it remains as a small ‘club’ with a few onlookers, who are a bit like old men viewing the activities of a nudist beach. Perhaps just those in the club could be granted the editing privileges.
This is a small programme compared to the universal programme. Is this programming being managed and manipulated by some kind of cosmic intelligence, who adds zeros and ones at the beginning of the programme and some gnomes, cuddly bears and dinosaurs, as well as enlightenment, fatal and debilitating diseases, wars and conflicts, or they’re really nothing of the sort?
Are extraterrestrials beings, with more developed abilities than our species, taking advantage of this planet and our very basic understandings and weaknesses? Does Barry Long or someone else have the answer?
What abou it, Swamishanti, leaving some mysteries – (you´re calling “Universal Programme”) – unresolved up to the very moment(s) when such is happening to show up on its own accord?
If our approach is not of a violent manner, we may then even be able to digest it?
_
And on quite another level…
I´d suscribe to what Satyadeva has been passing over today with some points re caretaking of a Chat (as a whole) and its contributors in particular.
Madhu
@Madhu
Do you think financial contributions from individuals whom you see as second-class and third-class should be rejected? Or maybe once we know how much the first-class contributors have donated, the second-class and third-class contributors should donate a smaller amount of money?
MOD:
Arpana, as already made clear, all contributions will remain confidential, no individual amounts will be published, only the total received.
@Swamishanti
Good one. Very refreshing! Thanks.
Nice atmosphere out in the nature.
“There is gratefulness towards the Master, he is here spread all around the planet….
When you are here, at least some part of you takes the effort to be aware. And so slowly, slowly something is happening inside everyone….
This morning, I saw you all enlightened….”
A few fickle-minded bloggers were cheering fictional named anonymous person as if someone had written an article after submitting thesis for doctorate.
Just a bit of scratching and a duck has come out.
“Just a bit of scratching, and a duck has come out”, you said yesterday, Shantam Prem.
Not only one, Shantam Prem, just many are happening…and not at all to forget yours (duck) coming out very noisily with its squawking (!!!) from the corner of your temporary desktop for years:
By squawking noisily to know the (THE!) direction ordering the rest of the squawk-squawkers to follow it – being very angry (the least to say) that such is NOT happening.
What an exhausting duck-life must that be. And deserves any ducklings learning what compassion is all about (to learn).
Madhu
“Compassion” – karuna
“Sympathetic joy” – mudita
(Mitfreude in German)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudita
“Envy” – issa
(Neid)
Osho’s presence…
I admire Muslims million times more for feeling presence of prophet Mohammed.
No photo session, no professionaly made videos, no statues, yet a firm belief.
In 21st century, to feel the presence of someone who died at the end of 20th century; Swamishanti kind must be thinking of themselves as rocket scientists….
Belief, with its fantasies of who a centuries-dead master was, wish-fulfilling imaginings of his presence? Is that what your spiritual life has been reduced to, Shantam?
Haven’t you realised that belief is for fools (those who are ripe to be deceived, not least by themselves?).
“Belief…with fantasies…as wish-fulfilling imaginings” has been deconstructed day-in, day-out by spirutual Masters worth their salt, Satyadeva, and Osho has appeared on stage as one of them. Unforgettable (for me).
The ´Fool´ – however – you´re thourougly bashing here as just a´ stupid neglectable figure on stage, to be thrown out (eliminated) was and is at any time, I´d say, quite an important actor when stuff got stuck in the group dynamics.
Not the least to create some laughter and loosen some all too hard screws in the mind(s).
In ancient times they´ve been next to the King , and their very ways of ´foolish´ counselling has been honoured. Even by the King himself.
The Fool, Satyadeva, is not ´a believer´, I´d say.
I´d like to throw that in on one of the Caravanserai tables as an ´After Midnight particle.
Madhu
P.S:
Feeling a Fool, ie posting….
Read my post again, SD, it is sarcasm pure.
It matters not if someone has died centuries ago or decades ago.
Dead is dead, though out of reverence one can still say, “Happy Birthday”…
P.S:
If there is a next life, sannyasins must be ready, there is 99.99999999999% chance to be born again as Hindu, Muslim, Christian and to find Osho talks again will be as arduous as to search for an ear-ring on the beach!
Trust and doubt is a two-sided coin is the old cliche.
Some belief is important, as it brings shraddha, trust. Discernment is a useful tool but trust is the key to a master’s blessings.
A fool can proceed more than a doubting Thomas.
One remains very closed in the realm of too much doubt. Osho spoke on the importance of trust and surrender so much in a beautiful way in Poona One, but then encouraged doubt at the Ranch. Surely, a lot of doubters had left the scene by Poona Two.
One day, when I become a master, there is a promise to tell: “Spiritual masters are not better than tailor masters.”
Someone specialised in one craft is a master of that art. It is nothing extraordinary. In this human world, nothing is extraordinary. it is all inter-connected.
Well, Satyadeva, if “belief is for fools”, as you state in your post, then are we just to “believe” that Parmartha died a year and half ago, but “Clive” lives on, taking over the administrative duties of SN?
If my memory serves me right from reading the posts here and various obituary notices at the time, Parmartha and Clive were one and the same person, no? No one here seems to have mentioned this odd discrepancy, so I guess it was up to me to bring it up.
As far as I know, dead men don’t walk, don’t talk, and surely don’t ask for online donations for websites on the brink of extinction.
So, what say ye punters, is this all a wee bit beyond belief, or I am I missing something here?
MOD:
Yes, Bob, you’re missing something extremely simple, ie that it’s possible to have more than one person called ‘Clive’, even in a small unit such as SN’s ‘volunteer’ staff. Incredible, of course, yet true – believe it or not!
Haven’t you noticed that founder/editor Clive is/was Parmartha, while current/soon to be former SN tech troubleshooter Clive is/was Jitendra? Surely that’s a clue for a shrewd online investigative detective such as your good self?!
MOD,
Sure, that’s possible, and, yes, I had noticed the Clive/Jitendra thing…but, you know, who gave this “clue”? Not me, but someone at SN…that’s “y’all”, as Elvis would say…Neither Lt. Columbo, nor Sherlock H. would accept that without further sourcing, that’s for sure…
You say:
“Incredible, of course, yet true – believe it or not!”
When I was a boy, 9 or 10 maybe, I used to read, with great fascination “Ripley’s Believe It or Not” books, and I think I probably believed most of the wild things that were in those books. They were just so cool, whether totally true or not was irrelevant.
Now, I’m a wee bit older, and wee bit wiser in the ways of this world, alas, for better or for worse….
I think a great new book would be a take-off on that theme, modern style–Osho’s Neo-Sannyas Believe It or Not’…Old man Ripley’s got nothin’ to match that! I mean, ‘Wild, Wild, Country’ was just a teaser really….
MOD:
Re ‘Clive and Clive’, as Hamlet might say (approx.), “You’re thinking too precisely on this point”, Bob.
P.S:
Your last name wouldn’t be ‘Marley’, by any chance – or ‘Cratchitt, perhaps?!
Holmes, you’re incredible! How did you figure it out? I confess…my name IS Bob Marley/Cratchitt/Dylan, and yes, I believe that miracles DO happen at Christmas time.
Humbly yours,
Dr. Bob Watson
Well, Bob,thanks for your contribution.
My response to your take will probably not be edited soon (if ever) as well as a last response to Arpana´s attack far below any line is not edited.
I feel kind of sick of that ´wave´, I can say.
And?
It´s quite a (very male) turbulence happening just now.
What a DRAG!
Madhu
MOD:
Madhu, please realise that this is far from being a full-time (voluntary) occupation (although now and then it kinda seems that way). Time was limited here today due to multiple other commitments so some sub-editing had to be postponed. It’ll be done by tomorrow evening.
@Madhu.
”as well as a last response to Arpana´s attack far below any line is not edited.”
What attack was that?
I just said, and I repeat, I did not send you a private email. ??????
To lighten the mood, ‘The Night Rainbow’, a 30 mins. podcast from ‘Love Osho’, was posted at the Caravanserai home page this morninhg…Several others will follow before the New Year.
And there’s another one now over at the Caravanserai, ‘Keeping Osho on Planet Earth’, about Osho and Vivek/Nirvano (52 minutes)
Yes, Satyadeva,
I´ve watched both of the ´Love Osho´ podcasts – the moment they appeared on Oshonews.
Came to know all personally, although in the ‘System Constellation Circus’ which German Svagito is a facilitator of – up to the present moment (as a Psychologist & in Meditation) I’m not that much in peace about it, as is needed. (That has a longer story…no need to rell it at the moment).
Yesterday, I´ve been deeply touched by Veena´s take as always, when she is contributing some of her journey.
Didn´t matter (for me) at all that the recording was hard to listen to with the left side of the brain – as when you listen to it from the heart, you listen to quite a British ´Song` of Friendship (of Nirvano aka Vivek) & all and that made some of the High-Lights of my yesterday.
Reminded me also of the many ‘December 11ths’ we´ve been celebrating together and reminding me of something which is (could be called)´everlasting´.
Thanks for putting it up here, Satyadeva.
Madhu
´
Maybe, Arpana, you could reread your own yesterday posts (addressing me) at 3:49 pm, 6:55 pm, and ´plus´ be assured that it was some character (if you didn´t write that private email to me) that such crap has been happening!
However, some shady aspects of yourself you probably would deny, for whatsoever reasons.
That´s all I can say re those odd aspects of a group dynamic, which is about to change.
Once again: Everybody ´loves´ at the very level of his/her consciousness.
You, me, everybody posting here.
You often use the Master´s words for a pointer, didn´t go, don´t you.
It always – doesn´t it? – points back to you too.
Madhu
You don’t know who you are unless you’re offended, Madhu.
Btw, Arpana,
The Cyberstalking (under your very ´name´, Arpana) is continuing.
So – once again the WASTE BOX…just now!
Madhu, I am not sending you emails.
Yes, MODs, thanks, and YES, I DO realise that´s a voluntary occupation – I guess it is for most of us, I say most.
And as far as I am concerned I´ve been also in voluntary occupation (unfortunately without having technical skills in the new ´brave´ (Digital) World.
I am still meeting a lot of delusionary aspects of mine which are (still) into Fairness, Transparency and not at all least into that which Friendship of like-´minded` fellow-travellers was and could be, and maybe meantime IS all about.
The journey is not finished yet. I wouldn´t claim that.
Best wishes and thanks.
Madhu
MOD:
You’re spot on, Madhu, the journey’s far from over…Take care over there in Munchen.
Yes, MODs,
I´ve also been stunned…
However, once in all these years, Parmartha sent me a private email BUT not at all readable (unlike the email I got from Lokesh years before), it just was not to decipher of the cache*, and I was sorry in this case about it and didn´t and still don´t have a ‘troubleshooter’ in IT realms…sorry to say as well.
And I´m pretty much reminded about that ona on a pretty much daily level…
And his – late Parmartha´s – name was Clive Critchley (?), when I remember that rightly (?)
Oh, my goodness…let´s see how we´re surfing “this-one”.
MOD:
* “it just was not to decipher of the cache” – Please clarify, Madhu.
PS:
Just heard latest news:
Brexit ´done´ (almost, and BJ on further winning tour) that feels quite ´odd´ too, and will touch us all, more sooner than later…even on a superficial-not-superficial level…
Not easy to live a good life on an Island´s setting like UK…was remembering that prominent Artist´s work: ‘The British Parlament as a congregation of Monkeys which are to be seen in one of the Museums…’
And don´t get me wrong, ´we´ are not that far away from such circumstances…
Again an ‘After-Midnight-Writing’…with the tears of a Clown, you bet!
I feel like congratulating the editor of this site for big patience and caring heart.
I won´t be able to read and edit most of the junk day after day. 90% stuff is for the paid psychiatrists to sort out.
UPDATE Re SN FINANCES (etc.):
Major thanks to all who contributed towards repaying Clive/Jitendra who’s carried SN single-handed through this last 16 months or so.
So far, £306 has been repaid , with nearly another £200 pledged for the New Year, so it’s looking very much like ’job done’ there, remarkably, extremely close to the exact amount required. Great.
Still no takers as yet for the Site Maintenance role, so later this year it seems we might well have to raise another £270 for keeping the site going (£70 for ’rent’, £200 for upkeep).
And no one seems to want to be the new Site Owner. Shame, as Clive very much wants to be free of the responsibility.
But at least SN has survived, confounding the prophets of doom.
Happy Xmas and New Year to all contributors and readers!
@ Arpana ( 3:49 pm)
No, Arpana, if that was meant to be a question from your side.
No, I´m not thinking the way you imagine* me ´to think´.
However – you made up a point, I´d say. And the point is, that in the very moment money comes into play, a lot of uncomfortable stuff comes with it!
Madhu
*P.S:
Btw, I´m neither rich nor of any relevance re some ´ratings´ of ANY kind….
Fact is that I´m not a friend of ratings….
@ Madhu, who said:
”And the point is, that in the very moment, money comes into play, a lot of uncomfortable stuff comes with it !”
You’ve made that point very well.
The ´point is happening, Arpana; I didn´t make it!
Oh, but you did, Madhu.
P.S. to Arpana:
Didn´t like it, Arpana, that I got a private email from your side BESIDES the UK/SN Chat-room here. It went into the waste box as – up to now – you´re able to join the Chat for your impulses whatsoever to whomsoever has registered – like me – and then that’s readable by everyone.
I haven’t sent you a private email, Madhu.
Then if you haven´t done that, who else must have used your name and adress as caravanserai???? with “Arpana mentioned you! etc. and following lines ???
Well – as I said, it went immediately into the waste box anyway as such was in another way intruding stuff as it´s anyway happening sometimes IN the chat…
But there again it´s that anybody then can read it AND respond, if he or she among this small group here likes to respond. Or not.
(Somebody into poker-encountering games???).
ODD, I´d say!
Madhu
To help you a bit, Madhu, this line, “Arpana mentioned you” doesn’t come from Arpana. (I get them too, sometimes).
They come from the WordPress programme about the Caravanserai.
So, relax, both!
In case the two podcasts from Love Osho (put up at the Caravanserai on December 12) become ‘lost’ among the succeeding posts, here are the links:
https://loveosho.com/podcast/the-night-rainbow (30 minutes)
https://loveosho.com/podcast/keeping-osho-on-planet-earth (52 minutes)
About money:
Those who use this site regularly have the utmost responsibility to share financial side. It is around 30-40 pounds/Euro per year.
As far as readers are concerned, it is their free will. I think readers coming to this site are more than averagely evolved beings. They too will share some coins or notes.
Interesting is the capacity to avoid real theme in an article, real problem in real life.
My last post has rolled the ball to discuss financial issues regarding this site. No comment at all to discuss that point.
Quite often I have noticed, other than superficial tease, people are unwilling to discuss real issue or appreciate posts dealing with real issues.
Sometimes action replaces words.
The appeal has been for a voluntary donation in order to keep things going.
Now that is not really difficult to put into practice.
Just do it.
@ Arpana ( at 2:== pm)
To make that clear, Arpana: I´m not a gadget (puppet to play with) for some obnoxious, mental and spiritual ambition poisoned, ´sado-maso´ gamification enterprise!
You find something into such crap, it seems. Sometimes.
Maybe then better to take your brushes and colour pins…?
@ Madhu (at 2:40 pm)
Madhu: “I´m not a gadget (puppet to play with) for some obnoxious, mental and spiritual ambition poisoned, ´sado-maso´ gamification enterprise!”
You find something in such crap, it seems. Sometimes.
Maybe then better to stop scapegoating me.
Arpana (12 December 2019 at 10:41 pm)
There is this bot-like way of defence VIA attack – showing up again, sorry to say. And I am not the only one here being confronted with it.
It´s not working, it´s not working for both of us, I´d say – as long as I presume that we are BOTH of us, Being Human Beings. And not an Algorhythm-to-go.
Sorry, Arpana.
Madhu
Stop your stalking and scapegoating, Madhu. Enough.
One of the Osho communities is almost dead and we can witness it:
Yahoo!’s announcement:
“Attention: Starting December 14, 2019 Yahoo Groups will no longer host user-created content on its sites.”
It used to be an Osho Group. It is dying now, as you may see:
—– Original Message —–
From: samma premsamma@yahoo.com [LivingOsho]
To: LivingOsho@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2019 9:34 AM
Subject: Assunto: [LivingOsho] Yahoo Groups closing its doors
THANK YOU, SARLO, FOR ALL YOUR LOVE AND DEVOTION LEADIN OUR GROUP HERE…IS A PITY WE WILL LOSE TIS LOVELY OSHO FRIENDS CONNECTION…LOVE TO EVERYONE…SAMMA
If you go to https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LivingOsho/info you will be more than welcome to keep silent at the tomb.
Jivan Alok,
Don´t you think since your people created Resort by killing commune, all around the world, Osho work has gone into oblivion? Celebration has turned into silence of the lambs.
“Celebration has turned into silence of the lambs.”
Of to the white coat brotherhood meeting, then….
Is that one of the people being taken out for coughing?
SD is to Sannyas News what Suzie Dawson is to the Internet Party: its slow malingering death.
Osho would be ashamed of the MOD and attempts at wholesale censorship.
Just approve comments that are harmless and informative.
Don’t let your ego get in the way.
MOD:
Nothing remotely like “wholesale censorship” takes place here, Bong. The aim is to keep posts relevant to the topic, although this is applied with a certain degree of latitude, depending on the quality of ‘offshoots’ from the main discussion stimulated by the article. And to avoid offensive abuse. More or less complete ‘freedom’ was tried in the past, and it didn’t work.
Your offerings have invariably been characterised by irrelevance and self-indulgent non-sense, neither relevant, funny, nor otherwise meaningful. That’s why they’ve been discarded. In evaluating your contributions I suggest you take your own advice in your final line above!
I also suggest you accept the situation here or that you find or start something else that better fits your needs.
P.S:
Please note that further posts from you will not be considered for publication until you’ve registered as an official user, like everyone else. And btw, count yourself lucky that’s still open to you. This has already been put to you several times – now, enough is enough.
R. I. P Sannyasnews.
Yes, Osho’s work continues, in India especially. Although Osho talked negatively about Indians and badmouthed them every chance he got — in India there are many Osho centres springing up.
There are also other countries, like Japan, someone mentioned, where interest is growing. But in Europe and the US — what I wrote in my original post is spot on.
India is on a different level. By the way, I am European, I’m not Indian.
I expect interest in Osho to decrease in the next 20 years in the West. Young people are not interested, except for a handful of true seekers. And they are looking for a living guru – not an ‘image’ that is exploited financially by older disciples.
—-
I recently read an Osho News article about celebrations for Osho’s birthday in India:
https://www.oshonews.com/2019/12/15/painting-the-town-red/
India is carrying Osho’s torch. Meanwhile, at the Osho Resort…
As reported by the Hindustan Times, the nearby Osho Meditation Resort “showed no signs of any celebrations even as visiting journalists were refused permission to enter the premises.”
When contacted, Amrit Sadhana, the official spokesperson for the Osho International Meditation Resort said, ‘Currently I am out of the city for an Osho festival programme. The regular celebrations and meditations are going on. When we are out, there are others who celebrate.’
—
Oh, and one more thing.
RIP Sannyasnews.
Karam, your ‘celebrations’ are premature. SN isn’t dead, or even on its death-bed.
Once again, you’ve spoken to suit your own agenda while not being up-to-speed, having no idea of the facts.
Sorry to disappoint you, but maybe you can take it as a ‘learning experience? And/or go into politics, perhaps?
Karam.
Just a thought, a glass is half-full notion.
Sannyas in the West appears to be moribund, because westerners who have ben connected to Osho no longer need to cling to each other in co-dependent enclaves; and Indians in the main do, are at the same stage as westerners were in the 70s.
Moribund to you, not to everyone.
Perfectly correct, Karam!
Certainly, the browned and hallowed turf of mighty Bhorat is carrying torch for Osho`s vision! Led by Zorba the Buddha Modi and Swami Arun, Osho`s dream is now family-friendly and Osho meditations set to be interspersed with compulsory singing of Indian national anthem in primary schools and public events!
Also, it is only a matter of time before we will have privilege of walking into chai-shops of glorious India and seeing calendars on the wall with pictures of Osho with blue skin sitting on back of bullock cart drawn by Rolls Royce giving Om sign with legend:
“Hypothecated to State Bank of Osho”, “Financed by Osho Aggregates and Industrial Complex Ltd.”!
And for non-sattvic minorities, Osho`s vision will be applied:
“Love, Life, Slaughter”!
Meanwhile, the rotting carcass of Sannyas news has been consigned to dustbin of history – a cause of great joy for meditators such as Karam, whose obvious joy permeates every word he writes on the hated organ!
Also, the fact that SN is still visible online is merely an illusion, a group hypnosis of unconscious baboons, that advanced meditators such as Karam are able to see through due to advanced occult powers learned from Nine Men of mighty Bhorat!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
I guess your ego has some fear of dying, Karam.
Why this worrying about ‘Osho’s torch’? Why this RIP?
It’s all projections! RIP, Ego!
Do you have an ego, Satchit?
Does your ego not fear death if you have an ego?
Maybe you don’t have an ego, Satchit.
I think we should be told!!!!
It is not a question of me, Arps.
Karam calls himself an “Osho disciple who meditates in front of his photo”.
Time to say goodbye to this, instead of complaining about the world.
Definitely time to say goodbye to the complaining.
Answer the question about your ego, Satchit.
Mine is not as small as, say, Frank’s, for example. I can only dream.
Certainly I have ego, Arps.
Routine is ego.
Doing something unpredictable is not ego.
”Doing something unpredictable is not ego.”
Interesting comment, Satchit. Never thought of it like that, but yes.
In the period leading up to taking Sannyas I became aware of having lost all spontaneity, of living in my head, but taking Sannyas was completely spontaneous and generally it returned to me from then on.
Spontaneity has a downside, but rather have it than not.
Except that afterwards it’ll almost certainly be ‘co-opted’ as yet another constituent of ‘the self’ – especially if you think about it.
@Arps
What is the downside of spontaneity?
@Satchit
The older we get, the more we are expected to be predictable.
Spontaneous doesn’t always elicit positive responses. Sometimes, spontaneos causes others to react spontaneously, and in a way that doesn’t fit their self-image, which often doesn’t go down well.
Spontaneous can trigger others into feeling, feelings they don’t want to have.
@ Arps
Nobody forces you to be predictable. Sometimes it’s good to surprise oneself.
As I see it, spontaneity must be combined with awareness. Spontenous alone, may go wrong.
What about orang-utans then?
From Love Osho: https://loveosho.com/blog-1/orangutans-paparazzi
Forget about ego-death, I would say Karam is probably more worried about his (carc)ass. Welcome to the human race, mate!
To be fair though, he`s right when he says: “A guru is a fashion accessory for most people.”
For example, I was down the gastro pub yesterday in my Raybans after spending the afternoon at the tattooist, and when I pulled my fully-stuffed Burberry wallet out of my Versace manbag, a couple of Osho books and a signed picture of Mooji fell out and man, the dudes I was with went green with envy and the local booty was all over me like a Velcro blanket.