On being spiritual

Arpana says, “I was just about to post this and say it reflects Sannyas News at its best, that it’s how I see Sannyas News, but there’s potential for a discussion in this, methinks…”

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110 Responses to On being spiritual

  1. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    I would begin with an epistemological premise:
    Can we speak in logical/philosophical terms of a matter that concerns the transcendence of the mind and its processes?

    Consciousness, awareness, authenticity, positivity and negativity without an existential perspective – in the first place, that one of who is asking the question of “what is spirituality?” – are not enough to define what it is.

    I believe that starting from one’s own spiritual experiences, and from the context wherein we assume to have generated them and why (as a lesson for our inner growth?), we can recognize, combined in a unique way, all those qualities mentioned above, in short, that fragrance that a person in love with life emanates.

    P.S:
    Arpana, the last time I was joking, laughing with you about us, when I was talking about crap that I would write in reply to your bullshite.
    In that case, excuse me, if at that time I was not appropriate.

    • Lokesh says:

      Veet enquires, “Can we speak in logical/philosophical terms of a matter that concerns the transcendence of the mind and its processes?”

      Yes, of course you can. Your success rate might not be very high in conveying the essence of what you are trying to describe, but you can always give it a try.

      Really, though, these subjects are better captured by metaphor.

      • anand yogi says:

        Perfectly correct, Lokesh!
        Only metaphors that have been mixed in non-export quality Bajaj holy concrete mixers designed by ancient Vedic scientists of mighty Bhorat could ever be sufficient to express the inexpressible!

        It has been understood for yugas in glorious East that the truths concerning going beyond the mind are, like the glorious public toilets of mighty Bhorat, simply unspeakable!

        The ignorant western baboons could no more elucidate the logical/philosophical terms concerning the transcendence of the mind and its processes than organise an epistemology session in a brewery!

        Yahoo!
        Hari Om!

        • Lokesh says:

          Yogi hath returned. Thank God for the voice of insanity.

          • anand yogi says:

            Perfectly correct!

            In the words of Swami Bhorat himself:
            “Insanity is the only hope for humanity”!

            With Zorba the Buddha Modi safely installed as landslide dictator in India thanks to tireless occult behind-the-scenes work of the Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat, and the future of the European spiritual wasteland (also successfully ensured by the Nine Men) and safely in the grasp of Sri Sri Nigel Farage, the vision that the poets, sages, yogis, psychopaths, electroshock-brained psychotics and lobotomy patients have only up until now been able to dream about is certainly coming to pass as reality!

            All that is needed now is to chase out alcoholic baboons in Pune and instal Brian Rajneesh and Shantambhai on holy podium in Samadhi, surrounded by adoring 19 year-old gora trustafarians throwing themselves at feet, then run 400 year-old pair of holy chuddies up flagpole to signal final victory!

            Yahoo!
            Hari Om!

  2. Lokesh says:

    I have considered this post and do not think it will be the source of a great debate.

    The word ‘spiritual’ comes from the Latin ‘spiritus’ meaning breath, in reference to the breath of God that supposedly set us apart from all other species, and as such the word is mainly defined as an entirely non-material principle like breath. As Sri Chinmoy says at the beginning of Santana’s ‘Illuminations’ album, “God is life’s breath within us.”

    Being spiritual means that you are more concerned with inner values, states, experiences and meditation than you are with, say, the latest model of Mercedes or perhaps a new Gucci handbag. Spiritual is, for the most part, invisible to others, while its opposite, material, is plainly visible to everyone.

    Over the centuries, especially in countries like India, one could say that there was too much focus on the inner, while letting the outer become an absolute mess. Today, the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction. Enter Osho…

    Osho sought a balance between the inner and the outer. Being spiritual does not mean you have to be poor. His idea of Zorba the Buddha encapsulates the concept.

    A lot of people believe being spiritual just means exhibiting spiritual behaviour, but many of the most spiritual people I know do not exhibit any of that, other than leading peaceful lives, while taking care of business when needed.

    It recently came to my attention that a man I have met a couple of times, who owns a huge estate and is extremely wealthy, just so happens to be a very spiritual person. Meanwhile, I know others who live like sadhus and think they are ever so spiritual, but are in fact quite lost and fooling themselves into thinking they are really spiritual, when in fact all they are doing is compensating for their inability to make a success of anything in the material world.

    Yes, Osho’s concept of Zorba the Buddha is a good one.

    It requires intelligence to be attracted to the spiritual, as in intelligence of the heart. One has to come to the point where you truly understand that who you are on the inside will determine how life, on the outside, will be. If you feel good it all somehow makes sense. You can gather all the material wealth in the world but it is unlikely you will become truly happy as a direct consequence of being loaded.

    What it all boils down to is a question of balance.

    • Jivan Alok says:

      Lokesh,
      Once again, I have read your reply with great joy. Somehow the words you type make up a cute answer, and to the point. Always enjoy reading.

      As for the balance and Zorba the Buddha, yes, that would be the Golden Mean on the Middle Way. And what if you had to choose?

      Just a few days ago I was reading Osho saying about the spritual vs. material dilemma:
      “…if somebody were to ask me that if we had to choose between religion and science, what should we choose? Then I would say that we should be ready to choose religion…It would be better to be poor and inconvenienced than to lose the soul of man. What is the value of conveniences that cost us the self? And what is the value of wealth that deprives us of our very being? In reality they are neither conveniences nor wealth…” (Quoted from ;The Path Of Meditation’.

      I have saved this quote to remember and ponder upon, noting that oftentimes this dilemma arises, only on a smaller level and not that crucial. You really have to be conscious to make the right choice, but first you have to be aware enough to realise that you face the dilemma.

      I guess Arpana meant to say that without being conscious one will fail to keep the balance between “positive” and “negative”, whatever their meaning was, and fail to be spiritual either, should one deem oneself as such.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Yes, Jivan Alok,
        Seconded; especially the very last lines of your contribution (at 12:47 am). And I love that – when you quote – you at least mention the source. And thank you for that.

        Re the balancing you mention: I don´t know what Arpana ´means´, but what I´m experiencing more and more is that a seemingly inner state we used to call ´consciousness´ (or ´awarenes´) and simultaneously starting up to ´go into a whatsoever/wheresoever action´ is more and more mish-mashed all together. In deep sleep, I´d say.

        And with – not rarely – quite unpreferable outcomes then, to say the least….

        Madhu

      • Lokesh says:

        Thanks, Jivan.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Lokesh reads in the crystal ball of his head, “I have considered this post and do not think it will be the source of a great debate.”

      For me, if this site has merit, it is precisely to feed an open and honest debate about spirituality.

      I have seen that those pranksters who, like windmills, orient their point of view from the iconoclastic wind emitted by Borat’s thundering organ, have let my reference to the limits in speaking of a highly self-referential matter fall into the void…but how could it be otherwise?

      If the liar paradox,”I am a liar”, from which Godel was inspired to discover that mathematics cannot explain everything, forces us to go out of ourselves (our point of view) to validate our point of view , then in spiritual matters the truth of phrases like “I am spiritual”, “I got enlightenment” or “I know spirituality” must have a source of validation different from those who pronounce them.

      This is why for me, spirituality is what we grant to the people we love.

      • Lokesh says:

        Veet, what is going on right now on this thread has very little to do with the subject that Arpana began the thread with.

        As usual, things have degenerated, for the main part, into a mud-sling contest. Like yourself, Veet, endlessly involved in a game of oneupmanship, trying to prove that you are smarter, more intellectual, better, more enlightened than others. Nothing new there. Same old, same old. That is why I dropped out of the debate. It is going nowhere.

        • frank says:

          Btw, that would be a good discussion point:

          Why would Osho, a self-proclaimed enlightened man say publicly:
          “What is spirituality? What is enlightenment?
          All bullshit! There is no spirituality. There is no enlightenment.”?

          • frank says:

            The trouble with “spirituality” is that, as well as being difficult to talk about, there is no clear way to gauge it either.

            Everyone knows this. Look at the array of power-trippers, perverts, snake-oil salesmen, psychopaths and just plain idiots who are considered ‘spiritual’ by one bunch of people or another around the world.

            Playing the guitar, running fast, building houses, making money are all things whereby an assessment of progress or value can be relatively easily made. Spirituality is not like that.

            Also, spirituality is the ideal product for ultra-capitalism. That`s why it`s become so popular and on trend. Its value is decided by the seller, and any resistance on the behalf of the buyer can be used to make him/her feel bad about not buying the product. It`s a venture capitalist`s wet dream!

            Everyone wants a slice of the pie these days. From the top CEOs to the people who can`t get their life together at all.

            It`s why groups of spiritual seekers so easily become ‘social dominance hierarchies’.
            What else to do when the aim is something as ephemeral as ‘spirituality’? The nitty gritty of cash, bums on seats, who is who and who calls the shots is just bound to take over.

            • Arpana says:

              I associated spirituality, I’ve realised, because of your comment, at the start of everything to do with meditation, with austerity, self-denial, puritanism and hard work; and Osho Sannyas is really about conscious hedonism, for want of a better way of putting it, so I surmise, and an experience I went through after my return from the ashram the first time reinforces that.

              Many of us, most of us at some time or other, have almost certainly experienced some kind of really fierce cognitive dissonance about this, torn between those ideas of spirituality as puritanical on the one hand and being encouraged to be consciously hedonistic on the other.

              • Levina says:

                2 sides of the same coin, Arpana?

                • Arpana says:

                  Interestingly enough, Levina, since I wrote that somewhat off-the-cuff remark, I have reflected on the post and was thinking we can come to the middle from puritanical or hedonistic, and Osho, seems to me, works with us from either side.

                  P.S:
                  I got to the middle from puritanical. :)

            • swami anand anubodh says:

              Frank,

              It’s just a shame there is no evidence to support your cynical rant…

              https://www.watkinsmagazine.com/watkins-spiritual-100-list-for-2019

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                Yes, Anand Anubodh,
                ´it´s just a shame´, as you put it, where ´evidence´ nowadays is rooted in (internet-and social- media-clicks/quota).

                Could well be that individually overcoming cynical approaches and investigating the latter
                (cynicism) rates as number one on any inner meditation/contemplating personal list as a ‘rescue remedy’?

                Some of the aborigine healers worth their ´salt´ (before being hijacked by mainstream businesses) called it a ´Soul-Hunting´ procedure…that was convincing fot me.

                Madhu

                • Levina says:

                  Madhu, I’ve heard it said (and I quite like it) that mind becomes cynical when it’s at the edge, sees itself for what it is, but hasn’t surrendered yet, so it’s lumbered with being cynical about itself.

              • frank says:

                That list is ridiculous.

                It hasn`t even got Swami Bhorat on it.

                Tells you all you need to know, really.

                • anand yogi says:

                  Perfectly correct, Frank!

                  It is a timely reminder of the level of unconsciousness of the baboons in the spiritual wasteland of the West when such a luminary as Swami Bhorat is ignored in favour of a hundred monkeys!

                  It seems the true buddha and awakened one will never be recognised in his lifetime and then be crucified by the masses led by the Judas, Watkins!

                  I spoke to Swami Bhorat about it this morning. He looked downcast and sad, not because he has not made the big-time, but rather out of deep compassion for the spiritually ignorant! He tells me that he is seriously considering committing Sati on Mahaparanirvana day unless the baboon Watkins realises how badly he has missed!

                  The ungrateful baboons have forgotten that Swami Bhorat`s tireless efforts in his Bungabungalore ashram may not have presided over the initiation of as many under-age disciples into the path of backdoor Tantra as the Dalai, the Pope, Pema Chodron and Rowan Williams, but not through want of colossal efforts to reach the beyond and the behind!

                  Yahoo!
                  Hari Om!

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  Actually, Frank, I think the ‘Wankins list’ has to be taken seriously, after all, it has promoted Teal Swan up 10 places from 29th in 2018. Presumably on the back of successful videos like…

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxU0qjGhDsY

                  And who knows, after a future offering – perhaps: ‘How to use universal energy to cure a cough’ – she may be even higher in 2020!

                • frank says:

                  Hi Anubodh,
                  I thought it was just a list, I didn`t realise that it was a league table.

                  If they split it up into separate leagues it would be even better.
                  That would put Teal Swan in a relegation dogfight with Sadhguru and Deepak Chopra.

                  They would need VAR for those matches!

                  Deepak and Sadhguru look the types to have been been involved in their fair share of off-the-ball incidents and Teal doesn`t look the type to shy away from a 50/50 nor hesitate to go over the top if necessary.

                • satyadeva says:

                  You might be interested to hear that Sadhguru was at an Arsenal home game two or three years ago, the guest of someone well known in sannyas circles in north London.

                  I was at the same game, in a different part of the ground, but I knew he was there and he was easy enough to pick out in the distance, his coloured robes standing out amidst the crowd behind the goal. Not sure if he kicked someone’s head in though….

                • frank says:

                  Was that Michael Barnett, lifelong Aresenal fan? I expect they were doing a bit of energy work on a couple of Tottenham fans that day.

                  Sadhguru`s got previous, of course, for GBH and worse, but I won`t go into that here.

                • satyadeva says:

                  No, not Michael Barnett, aka Somendra (who, btw, is still holding courses, ‘workshops’ etc., including one quite soon in the UK, in Devon, I think – at the age of around 90!!).

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  Hopefully, Swami Bhorat will make a ‘play-off’ place in the 101 to 200 list, for a place in the Premier list next year.

                • frank says:

                  Yeah, I just hope he he`s got what it takes to challenge at the highest level and give the big boys a run for their money.

                  That`s what makes the Watkins premier league the best league in the world despite all the mind games and flagrant flouting of fair play rules.

                  As Swami Bhorat himself has said: “Form is temporary, formlessness is permanent.”

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  I reckon SB will do well in the top division. There are easy points to pick up at places like Abdullah II of Jordan and Adyashanti. And of course, Erich von Däniken is not the team he used to be.

                  I would expect to see him finish close up behind Teal Swan. In fact, when she has to go to his place in the away fixture, it may be like a trip down memory lane. Anyway, I don’t see anyone topping Pope Francis next year, especially with his huge fan base.

                  The good news is that many of the games will be live on Sky Sports!

                • frank says:

                  Makes you wonder how Teal Swan`s enlightenment would fare on a cold Wednesday evening in November in Burnley.

                  To be fair, non-duality is a game of two halves and, bottom line, enlightenment is a results business.

          • Veet francesco says:

            Thanks, frank.

        • sw. veet (francesco) says:

          In fact there is no need of a big head, Lokesh, to understand that we do not need only material bread, the whole debate is to understand whether bread feeds us or poisons us.

          It seems to me that around Osho many have eaten that bread but not everyone has been healed in the end, feeling they are worthy of it.

          Sannyas/spirituality is about gratitude for that healing.

  3. shantam prem says:

    Thanks God, the above quotation base of this string is not written by some Indian, and also does not talk about enlightenment or search for enlightenment.

    Being spiritual means authentic.
    How one can fix foreplay Tantra into this authentic spirituality?

    • Lokesh says:

      Authenticity has faced something of a public relations crisis in recent times. It seems the word has lost meaning because it’s now ubiquitous in business, on personal blogs and even in style magazines. Everyone wants to be authentic. Though the people who preach its virtue often don’t understand exactly what the word means.

      “Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.” (Oscar Wilde)

      • shantam prem says:

        Authentic Lokesh can not be authentic Shantam.
        Shantam can accept this, Lokesh will look with contempt.
        This is the one main underlined problem.
        For this I say, READ ASTROLOGY to understand minute differences in person-to-person constitution.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

          Your astronomical and astrological wisdom again bursts forth like a spiritual supernova from a black hole in the region of Uranus!

          Your words are like very sutras from the ancient sages of mighty Bhorat!

          “To understand person to person configuration read astrology!
          To learn about human body, watch Porn!
          To keep waistline trim, eat butter chicken!
          To freshen air in room, eat Dal Makhani!
          To be authentic, sit on heavily stained cushion near computer and ejaculate wisdom gleaned from Linda Goodman`s Sun signs into cyberspace!”

          Swami Bhorat tells me that he cannot understand why one so wise as this should not already have own ashram and be CEO of global spiritual org!

          It must certainly be Kali Yuga!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

          • shantam prem says:

            Yogi, tell to Swami Bhorat, Shantam is facing the question: Why not small Ashram, where one room will have the name Osho – just one room, the meditation room.
            Dilemma is where?

            Moreover, I lack will to succeed, almost negligible art in self-promotion.

            God willing, a small, self-financed ashram can be a reality in not too distinct future.
            Next life is also not a faraway future!

            • anand yogi says:

              Shantambhai!

              I put your question to Swami Bhorat.

              His guideline is that in your case smallest room in the house is perfectly correct location for your ashram.

              Yahoo!
              Hari Om!

            • Lokesh says:

              Shantam, sounds like you brainwashed yourself with your astrology programme.

              • shantam prem says:

                Can be.

                One has to be bit narcissist in spiritual business. No neuroscientists have ever found a shade of enlightenment or similar stuff. It is all self-washed system.

                • satchit says:

                  This is not totally true, Shantam.

                  Scientists have found the Endocannabinoid System, which maybe is overdeveloped in some people.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Satchit, what exactly are you suggesting here? That an “overdeveloped” endocannabinoid system is a key factor in ‘enlightenment’? Having done a little online research, this idea sounds like specious nonsense to me. A wonderful, even awe-inspiring physiological system, like the rest of the body, but where does that go when we die?

                  You wouldn’t be a regular cannabis user, by any chance? You know, the type that thinks its effects are all very ‘spiritual’?

                • anand yogi says:

                  Perfectly correct, Satya Deva!

                  It seems inevitable that SN has become a refuge for pot-smoking stoners like Scratchit, who are not taking human suffering seriously at all, but instead are giggling and getting the munchies!

                  Whatever next?
                  Hippies, toad-lickers, people with loose morals, whacked-out cult members queuing up to have their innards removed by psychic surgeons and refusing to commit emotional suicide?

                  These unsattvic baboons need to learn the draconian benefits of a cold bath every morning and a good ego-thrashing.

                  Hari Om!
                  Yahoo!

                • satyadeva says:

                  Perfectly but partially correct, Anand Yogi…

                  And partially but perfectly incorrect!

                • satchit says:

                  SD, I’m suggesting nothing.

                  Fact is that the body creates its own chemicals for happiness.

                  Maybe a key factor in ‘enlightenment’ is being born in India.

                  It’s all speculation.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Perhaps being born in India might have been “a key factor in ‘enlightenment’” but I think that time has passed.

                  Anyway, sure, the body is a beneficial drugs factory…I’m surprised it hasn’t been closed down by the authorities and ‘Big Pharma’…

                  Don’t tell them, please, but personally, I spend quite a lot of my time encouraging the manufacture and release of these “chemicals for happiness”, eg daily hot bath and cold shower (perfectly correct, A. Yogi!), most days 25 mins. or so of psychocalisthenics exercise routine (as taught in Oscar Ichazo’s Arica Training), some tennis, some walking in the park (Hampstead Heath or Waterlow Park, for those who know north London), and two daily relaxation/meditation sessions (about 75 mins.).

                  I may not be a contender for the world’s happiest person but without such practices (and other, more cathartic ones over the years) I probably wouldn’t even be around to agree or disagree with you, Satchit.

                  Perhaps similar applies to many of us here, I bet we all have our own ways of creating and nurturing body/mind well-being, according to ‘our lights’. Not a lot to do with ‘enlightenment’ though, is it?

                • frank says:

                  Endocannabinoid systems and cannabidiol-CBD oil is the flavour of the moment. Just about everyone is either talking about it or necking it or both, as far as I can see.

                  Re inner chemistry, it strikes me that you can do any activity that changes your body chemistry, then make an association/suggestion with your mind that what has happened is “spiritual” and that`s more or less what most of what passes for spirituality is, imo.

                  For example, I have been swimming in extremely cold water this afternoon and no doubt my endorphins and endogenous opioids and probably my endocannabinoid system have taken a kick-start, according to some bloke somewhere in a white coat.

                  I feel notably different and buzzy and if I was a spiritual type I could try to convince myself that I have raised my chi or activated my prana and achieved some kind of state on a spiritual path of some sort.

                  But I just can`t be arsed.

                • frank says:

                  SD,
                  You say “Not a lot to do with ‘enlightenment’ though, is it?”

                  I agree.
                  Enlightenment is not a necessary hypothesis for this kind of activity at all.

                  But then what is “enlightenment” a useful hypothesis for?

                  I can`t think of one, myself. Apart from waving a cosmic carrot at a donkey, but even that seems a bit past-its-sell-by-date to me.

                • satyadeva says:

                  On the other hand though, feeling good is a very useful grounding for ‘inner entry’, ‘going within’, perhaps even a prerequisite.

                  That’s part of the beauty of Osho’s active meditations, they induce feelings of well-being, upon which to base stillness and silent meditation.

                • satchit says:

                  @ Frank

                  I would say ‘enlightenment’ is a useful hypothesis for the idea that you can be more than you think you are.

                • satyadeva says:

                  So what’s the difference between that idea and that of maximising human potential, formerly known as ‘the growth movement’, which has exponentially expanded in the last couple of decades, eg hypnosis, neuroscience, cognitive behavior therapy, mindfulness, dance, yoga, to become more or less ‘mainstream’?

                • frank says:

                  SD,
                  That`s it: jump around, do heavy breathing, walk, run, dance, freak-out, get into hot water, cold water, in-out, in-out, shake it all about…then sit, chill and let it all go.
                  Way to go…

                  Sounds like Osho`s vision to me.

                • shantam prem says:

                  In my opinion, spiritual longing is authentic: longing to be happy, contented is authentic, wish to be good is authentic – but enlightenment?

                  I think it’s like G-Spot.

              • Arpana says:

                @Satchit

                Don’t you mean less than you think you are?

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        You say, Lokesh:
        “Authenticity has faced something of a public relations crisis in recent times. It seems the word has lost meaning because it’s now ubiquitous in business, on personal blogs and even in style magazines. Everyone wants to be authentic. Though the people who preach its virtue often don’t understand exactly what the word means.”

        That nails it – including ´responses´, especially on a viral lane.
        Quite a few – here as elsewhere – are capable to enjoy that kind of ‘ride’ too that you so accurately described in your lines.

        Madhu

  4. shantam prem says:

    Teal Swan is a wow-looking woman from the land of Coca Cola and Burger King. It is always a joy to see non-sannyasins asserting their space in the neo-age spirituality.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_Swan

    • satchit says:

      In Sannyas circles, “authenticity” is easily used as an excuse for expressing aggression. God Help!

      We must become “authentic”- haha.

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

    • frank says:

      “Teal Swan was born with extrasensory abilities such as clairvoyance, clairsentience, and clairaudience. She has claimed to be an alien from the star Arcturus. She claims to have been a victim of Satanic ritual abuse from the ages of 6-19, in order to cure her of her extrasensory abilities. Part of this alleged abuse included being sewn into a corpse.

      In particular, she has had TV interviews in 2014 regarding her ritual abuse, conducted by Chris Oswalt and sent to Fox9, Kivi 6 and Idaho News. Swan claims that she has memories of these events which were repressed, until a Salt Lake City-based therapist helped her uncover them. An investigation was opened into her claims before being ultimately shut down due to several accusations being made against her therapist, Dr. Barbara Snow, who incited Satanic Panic.”

      Sounds a pretty balanced individual.
      I will definitely be taking her advice.

  5. shantam prem says:

    In linguistic terms, ‘Osho’ means ‘Acharya’.

    One cannot run away from one´s authentic destiny.

  6. kavita says:

    Being ‘spiritual’ mostly is such a cliché these days.

    I would rather prefer the use of ‘human’ to ‘spiritual’.

    Even though ‘spiritual’ is a nine-letter word, it sounds more like a four-letter word to me!

    • satyadeva says:

      If that’s the case, why do you think that’s happened, Kavita?

      And how would you define ‘human’? Would that include the ‘not-so-nice’ stuff, like anger, depression, moodiness, jealousy, selfishness, hatred, racism, etc?

      • frank says:

        ‘scuse me for butting in here but I think it could be because ‘spiritual’, like ‘authentic’, is no longer a fringe concern but rather, widely seen as a virtue or something that “would be nice to have.”

        Thus people set about ‘acquiring’ them in the same way as people have always tried to acquire socially-sanctioned virtues: most of it ends up as play-acting or just throwing it in because you`ve heard it`s good, like a reality-show contestant saying, “My favourite food is pizza, my favourite colour is blue, my bra-size is 38B and I`m a really spiritual person and I think everyone should be just who they are, you know: authentic.”

        • satchit says:

          Perfectly correct, Frankie!

          ‘Becoming authentic’ is crap.
          Either you are, or you are not – finished.

          • Arpana says:

            Not even ‘authentically’ reaching for authenticity.

            I’ve been learning to paint for years.
            I wasn’t one of those individuals who could just do it. I have become better and better, because I gave up being a non-painter, and have worked hard at painting.

      • satyadeva says:

        IE isn’t merely being “human” the problem, rather than the ‘solution’?

        • satchit says:

          It depends what you understand by ‘human’. If your ‘human’ is connected to the Source, then there is no problem.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Satya Deva!

          These humans beings are certainly the problem!
          Even Swami Bhorat himself gets extremely narky and irritated just thinking about these angry, depressed, moody idiots!

          It is time that some final solution was found for this problem!
          Fortunately, the Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat are using all the occult power at their disposal to make it happen!

          If the unconscious mass of not-so-nice humans refuses to commit egocide, the Nine Men will use their powers to incarnate a crack force of no-nonsense spiritual masters in order to do the job properly by instituting a foolproof programme of compulsory meditation, ethical cleansing and an ego genocide that will sweep through the world like a wildfire!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

        • frank says:

          Being human is a problem.
          But, quite frankly, at my age, it`s one problem I`m glad that I`ve still got!

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            @ Frank ( 29 May 2019 at 12:10 pm)

            May you stay ´forever young and healthy with your “problem”. This of your contributions ro the present topic stays with me as one of the roots and wings aspects.

            Late but not too late, hopefully, to send you my best wishes.

            Madhu

            P.S:
            Also liked your statement re the list of ´influencers….

    • shantam prem says:

      “If you eat butter chicken, you can be human but not spiritual.”
      (When 9 letters word becomes 4-lettered).

  7. Prem Ritvik says:

    “Being material is having mass and occupying volume.”

    Then what is being materialist?

    • frank says:

      Here`s a good one:
      “The Spiritual point of view always posits itself as superior, and operates particularly well in a fantasy of transcendence among ultimates and absolutes.” (James Hillman)

      • Prem Ritvik says:

        James Hillman is right in understanding arrogance, which is ignorance, whether in name of spirituality, money, etc.

        He has not known the spiritual.
        At best some speakers on path are making normal mistakes.
        He himself, if to be seen in light of this statement, is not a seeker but a scholar.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Prem Dipstik!

          Certainly the baboon Hillman, who is speaking from the mind which is nothing but mind, could have benefited from learning at the feet of one such as yourself, a true seeker!

          He is simply just a scholar coughing up what he has read in books, totally unlike you, a true spiritual seeker who is as deeply immersed in spiritual seeking as last night`s dal Tadka in depths of mighty Ganga!

          It is perfectly correct that only a wise one such as your highly spiritual self, entirely free from arrogance and sense of superiority, can proclaim from own exalted spiritual state: “He has not known the spiritual”!

          You are yet another shining example of how those hailing from the browned and hallowed turf of mighty Bhorat have a direct claim to spirituality through making correct akashik choices for rebirth!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            Anand Yogi
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            Here are some reviews from people who bought their authentic spirituality at just $29.99!:

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            Monica: “I thought they don’t ship it to Latin America but at just $499 they did and now my whole family thinks I am stupid for buying it and now I am left alone! The taste of aloneness could be so cheap, thanks to Prem making it accessible anywhere in the world!”

            Lata: “I always thought how to make my wardrobe better, and the answer was more dresses. And I did what any sensible person would have done, I sold the authentic spirituality I had purchased last week on eBay for nearly twice the price. I know that it does not make up for the delivery charges, but still the re-sale value of this product is so great, I have two more dresses in my wardrobe now!”

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          • Lokesh says:

            Ehm…errr…yes, great Yogi, it is wonderful that you recognize the true enlightenment and Bhorathood of Prem Dipstik. Could he be the avatar we have all been waiting on?

          • Prem Ritvik says:

            Also, I agree that my response in saying “at best seekers making mistakes on the path” has ignorance of the fact that he might have met some other category/individuals I have not thought of.

            But his nature is that of a scholar, in the light of the mentioned statement.

  8. Arpana says:

    Time, plus mass, plus occupying volume.
    T+M+OC.

    • Prem Ritvik says:

      If being materialist is just to have mass, occupy volume and be subject to time, then even donkey is a materialist.

      No, it would require intelligence to be combined to enjoy the material and be a materialist.
      Similarly, being spiritual cannot be as simple.

      I agree with what is in the quote, but it also seems to be given by someone who has not gone very deep, but has some clue.

      • Prem Ritvik says:

        Not gone very deep but has some clue because this person says not positivity, but both with awareness.

        This is more like a statement given to accept the psychological state at some time, which may be positive and at another negative. The twist is if the state is positive for a long time it is boring and turns to negative. This is a consolation to accept both the states, but not helpful, it speaks of a swing.

        While I will say authenticity is enough, and it may include neither as it matures. There is a statement beyond the mentioned statement.

        Now, a quick question in ‘Who wants to be a Millionaire, spiritual edition:’

        In which city you live?
        A. Bla bla capital of some glorious country
        B. Authenticity
        C. State of Alabama
        D. I live in wild, I live in jacuzzi, I have nuts and guts to enjoyyyy my life

  9. kavita says:

    Due to travelling, mostly I can’t access the internet effortlessly!

    “If that’s the case, why do you think that’s happened, Kavita?”

    SD, probably due to over-exposure of this word due to websites like ‘facebook’!

    “And how would you define ‘human’? Would that include the ‘not-so-nice’ stuff, like anger, depression, moodiness, jealousy, selfishness, hatred, racism, etc?”

    “Human” to me is inclusion of nice as well as not so nice stuff.
    Of course, inclusion of all of that, but these days I use them as a key to watch myself, if & when they are arising.

  10. satchit says:

    One of my favourite Osho quotes is:

    “What is spirituality? What is enlightenment?
    All bullshit! There is no spirituality. There is no enlightenment.”

    • shantam prem says:

      Satchit, in which book is written “What is spirituality? What is enlightenment? All bullshit! There is no spirituality. There is no enlightenment”?

      This book I will buy, rest of them are anyway used as decoration objects in the bookshelf.

      • satyadeva says:

        Yes, an absolutely wonderful excuse to rationalise all manner of self-indulgent laziness, a superb escape route from any lingering guilt at one’s failure to make any apparent progress – as, hey presto! – it’s all a pile of bollocks anyway, because the greatest-ever Master in the history of all possible Universes once said something that implied as much.

        Never mind about the other 99.9% that directly or indirectly contradicted this!

        If it suits you, Shantam & Satchit, it suits you, sirs!

        • satchit says:

          SD, it is very funny if a Master who pretends to be enlightened, says “there is no enlightenment.” lol.

          • satyadeva says:

            Yes, and a lot of people can make that into a green light for thinking they no longer need to make any efforts. Which is perhaps even funnier!

            • satchit says:

              Yes, I wonder that this quote is not censored. It is really not good for the business!

            • Arpana says:

              @SD,
              He is treating the remark as permission. I find that an interesting reaction from characters of that ilk.

              • satchit says:

                @ Arps

                Your remark shows also what kind of character you have. (At least I use your name).

                • Arpana says:

                  Anything anyone ever says about anything always says at least as much, if not more, about the speaker, rather than the person spoken about; apart from Osho; and Frank and Lokesh and Madhu and VF and Shantam and you, that is.

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  Better watch your own remarks here, especially re this thread, Satchit: it’s needed!

                  (And I would suggest to you not to hide behind Frank here…you are poles apart!).

                  Madhu

                • satchit says:

                  To make it short, Arps:
                  With your “permission” idea, you are projecting. Same for Munich Queen Madhu with her ‘hiding’ idea.

                  No time for further explanation because watching football on tv.

                • Arpana says:

                  Lot of protesting going on here, Satchit.

                  Methinks you’ve got your buttons pressed.

                  By the way, the initial remark wasn’t about you, although if Id thought about it more, it might have been.

                • frank says:

                  Wow!
                  I had been doing sirshasana on a bed of nails for 6 hours a day, doing 4 Osho meditations a day, sleeping in an icebath and having Reichian therapy and psychoanalysis every day. Then I read that Osho said enlightenment`s all bullshit, so I went straight down the pub, had a few pints of barley wine, came home and fell into a coma!
                  What a relief!

                  I`m so glad he said that!

                • satchit says:

                  @ Arps

                  As I see it, protesting is going on and buttons are pressed because of that quote.

                  Why don’t you post the whole quote, you the greatest quote-lover under the sky of SN?

                • Arpana says:

                  @ Satchit

                  You’ve really got to try and get over this idea that as long as you have the last word you are right.

                • satchit says:

                  Seems you have a problem to have the last word, Arpana.

                  Try it, it’s not so difficult!

          • Jivan Alok says:

            Satchit,
            Here is another quote about enlightenment:

            “And certainly enlightenment is nothing but your becoming light, your inner being becoming light.

            Perhaps you are aware that the physicists say that if anything moves with the speed of light, it becomes light – because the speed is so great that the friction creates fire. The thing is burned, there is only light. The material disappears, only immaterial light remains.
            Enlightenment is the experience of an explosion of light within you.

            Perhaps your desire to be enlightened is moving with the speed of light, like an arrow, so that your very desire, your very longing becomes a flame, an explosion of light. There is nobody who becomes enlightened, there is only enlightenment. There is only a tremendous sunrise within you.” (From ‘The Osho Upanishad’, 29 September 1986)

            Quoting a fragment saying “it’s all bullshit” without the context is not right. When it was said there must have been a certain reason behind for saying just so, and to a certain person asking a question that has been left out.

            • Jivan Alok says:

              By saying “enlightenment is nonsense” Osho could address someone who was obsessed with the idea of enlightenment, but did not meditate enough. That could be kind of a reminder: Go the hall and do dynamic first, forget all about enlightenment for now.

              This condradictory statement can also be interpreted this way: all verbal explanations fail to express truth, then everything going from the mind as words is “nonsense”. This interpretation is also nonsense, being my mind’s product.

              Osho makes me laugh when he obviously speaks illogically. Then laughter alone seems to be a ‘no nonsense’ thing.

            • satchit says:

              Good argument, Jivan, that the quote is out of the context. But this is valid for your above quote too. Maybe then one is not allowed to quote at all because they all have a certain context?

              As I see it he used ‘enlightenment’ as a device, similar to Gautam Buddha saying to some people, “there is God” and to others, “there is no God”.

            • shantam prem says:

              Wow!
              Quotations of Bible and Koran will decide what is truth and what is not.

              Sorry, I wanted to say talks of Bhagwan Shree decide.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Hi Satchit,
      Where did you find this particular one of your “favorite quotes” (besides in your brain)?
      Could you specify and let us know the source?

      Madhu

    • frank says:

      ‘Philosophia Ultima’
      Discourses on the Mandukya Upanishad, discourses are based on the sutras of the Mandukya and Isa Upanishads.
      Talks given from 11/12/80 am to 26/12/80 am

  11. Shantam prem says:

    Being spiritual is another kind of religious tag.
    Tagless state is being Agnostic.

  12. shantam prem says:

    There can be many attributes of being spiritual. To use present tense for certain figures of the past is surely not a spiritual quality, albeit a religious one.