Narcissism and the Indian Version of Neo-Sannyas

Shantam Prem continues his series of contributions with some harsh words for some leading Indian and Nepalese disciples, accusing them of “grandiose narcissism”, while hoping that “maybe this little piece can create a new string of discussion. With the addition of comments, the ground reality will unfold.”

‘Osho Times’, ‘Osho World’ – ‘Osho Space’, ‘Osho Universe’?! Very rarely has some small cult suffered from such grandiose narcissism.

If it were in the hands of such religious zealots, their heads and hearts would like to add the prefix ‘Osho with Banana, Papaya, Pineapple’ too!

If one goes through the Facebook posts of Indians who have been hooked by Osho through his youtube videos, the world needs only one thing: Listen to Osho and spread what Osho says, what Osho said.

Because Facebook is the one and only site of cut-and-paste quotations, Osho´s words dominate the one-liner virtual world. On the basis of this, 3-5 small-time, semi-religious entrepreneurs from Nepal and India travel around the world boasting their close proximity with Osho when He was ‘Acharya’.

Sometimes I wonder why none of the foreigners play the ambassador role for spreading Osho´s work of taking meditation camps.

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78 Responses to Narcissism and the Indian Version of Neo-Sannyas

  1. shantam prem says:

    I am curious to read first comments of usual bloggers over the content of the string.

    • satchit says:

      Why is it so interesting what some Indian disciples do with or without narcissim, Shantam?

      Are you jealous that they do something, and you don’t?

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        Shantam, also for me it does not seem to be a great fault, neither narcissism nor nostalgia. In fact, I listen with pleasure to the stories about Osho by old disciples.

  2. anand yogi says:

    Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

    It is well known amongst those with true knowledge, and has been made clear by Zorba-the-Buddha Modi,as crowned “True Yogi” by enlightened ones such as Arun, that not only meditation, plastic surgery, stem-cell genetics, flying, space-travel, public toilets were originally created by the wise rishis and sages of ancient Bhorat, but also, long before the so-called psychologists of depraved West theorised about “grandiose narcissism”, it had been discovered many yugas earlier by the wise men of mighty Bhorat!

    Krishna with his posse of 16000 gopi bitches and demanding unconditional devotion far outstripped any rockstar/rapper in spiritual wasteland of West in narcissism stakes!

    Shiva sitting on tiger-skin rug all day blowing chillums and enveloped in haze of self-love all day whilst Parvati fetched tea!

    All gurus sitting on podiums with beatific grins, proclaiming union with ultimate godhead and having feet and other chakras massaged by disciples whilst continuously manipulating disciples for own good and demanding adoration!

    When it comes to grandiose narcissism, we who have been suckled at the mighty mammary of mighty Bhorat who has indulged our foibles and let us crap on floor when and where, are clearly superior to the western baboons who have to pay to see psychiatrist in order to get diagnosis!

    Shantambhai! You have spent too long in unspiritual West! You are suffering from enLIDLment, but there may be something to be learned from westerners by coming out of grandiose narcissism closet and proclaiming sacred sutras of Gloria Gaynor:
    “I am what I am!”

    Yahoo!
    Hari Om!

    • anand yogi says:

      Certainly, ‘I Am What I Am’ was written many yugas ago by same advaitic songwriting team from ancient Bhorat that penned smash hits, ‘Thou Art That’, ‘I Am That’ and ‘Who Am I?’, but message is same:

      It is absolutely necessary for Shantam and all other self-obsessed sub-continentals from India and Nepal to spread grandiose, narcissistic vision that nothing but self exists! Everything is a manifestation of ‘I’, the ultimate self!

      Facebook is certainly the perfect medium for this vision to come to fruition!

      Thus Osho`s, Shantam`s and Bhorat`s dream of world-domination through one-liners can come to pass!

      Jus` like that!

      Yahoo!

  3. shantam prem says:

    The theme point of this string is, “Why none of the foreigners play the ambassador role for spreading Osho´s work of taking meditation camps?”

    After all, late patriarch has 90% western disciples, so why don’t they promote “meditation: the first and last freedom”?

    It is a self-introspection.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      Shantam, are you talking about nostalgic narcissists or parrots?

      • satyadeva says:

        Before anyone starts reacting, this is worth a look…

        https://gfmisc.s3.amazonaws.com/email/kle_20190312.html

        • Arpana says:

          It is only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without violence.

          • satyadeva says:

            An apparently wise statement indeed, worthy of the most profound contemplation, Arps – although, on further in(tro)spection, a rather rare event (especially in London), in fact so rare that it’s never happened to me and it’s never likely to happen either.

            Now, where did I put those knuckle-dusters…?

            • Arpana says:

              Well, might not have been a mosquito, but it was huge, and buzzing, had landed on my goolies (notice I wrote goolies, not gooley; so yes, that big, the insect that is. In fact, might have been a giant hornet) as I got out of the shower, and a very hot summer, and I was holding a hammer (don’t ask).

    • satchit says:

      “90% western disciples” – how did you come to this number, Shantam?
      By self-introspection? This is not very scientific.

      And at what year do you count?
      Now 2019, 2000, or 1980?

      • shantam prem says:

        Satchit, be my facebook friend to discuss with me.

        • satchit says:

          Shantam, I am not on facebook, so I can not be your fb friend.

          As far as I know, to spread Osho’s work one needs permission of OIF, is it not?

          Maybe there are not so many people interested in that permission.

  4. Lokesh says:

    With Shantam’s latest, ehm…erh…article, SN has hit a new all-time low in terms of threads to debate. I mean to say, does anyone, apart from Shantam, give a shit about any of this nonsense? Shantam, stuck in his role of orange-caped crusader, shows his limited mind-set by telling us about browsing Facebook for Osho quotes. When people talk to me about Facebook my stock reply is ‘Facebook is kid’s stuff.’

    Shantam admits the following in his conclusion: ‘Sometimes I wonder why none of the foreigners play the ambassador role for spreading Osho´s work of taking meditation camps.’
    A very closeted perspective indeed. ‘Foreigners’ are very active in regards such things. ‘Foreigners’ – pretty rich coming from Shantam, who is himself a foreigner who has been helped by other ‘foreigners’ in terms of social welfare and supplying him with work to support himself.

    Of course, his ‘series of contributions’ here on SN is nothing more than a vain attempt to draw attention to himself. In total disregard of Osho’s advice to embrace his nobodyness, Shantam thinks he is a somebody because he is leader of a one man band that is completely out of tune and only the tone deaf could listen to. Tragic in a way because everything he writes on SN is a compensation for lack of any real success in the world.

    I also find it a sorry state of affairs that none of the other contributers can come up with anything a little more worthwhile than Shantam’s sad rubbish. There is so much going in today’s world worthy of debate and new perspectives. And what do we have here on SN? Narcissism and the Indian Version of Neo-Sannyas! Gimme a fuckin’ break, man. This shit is so dead it is putrid.

    • shantam prem says:

      Lokesh, why don´t you write for ‘Time’ or ‘Independent’?
      I know you don´t have those credentials, so you are stuck in a small site called sannyasnews.

      At least I have some etiquette and sense of proportion: at sannyasnews I write about the issues connected with the failed cult.

      • satyadeva says:

        “the failed cult” – reminds me of Hugh Milne’s/Shivamurti’s book, ‘The God That Failed’, where it was clear that the ‘failure’ was of the author rather than his ‘target’. Too painful to face, no doubt.

        • shantam prem says:

          Satyadeva, it is too painful to face from both sides. Denial is a very potent feeling.

          There is a worldwide famous saying, ‘A wise enemy is better than stupid friends’.

          In my understanding, Neo-Sannyas should be used as a case study in universities: ‘Rise and Fall of a Cult’ or ‘How to Destroy a Brand’.

          • satyadeva says:

            The only thing that’s been destroyed, Shantam, is your personal view of what Sannyas is/was about. That’s where you’re in denial.

            • shantam prem says:

              SD, what is your personal view of what Sannyas is/was about? Maybe this can be the sub-discussion point in this thread.

      • Lokesh says:

        Shantam, if anyone is stuck on a small site called SN look no further than yourself. “Stuck” pretty much sums up your whole approach to life in general.

        You declare, “At least I have some etiquette and sense of proportion.” Being someone who employs racist comments with little or no thought about the state of ignorance that generates such crap destroys all notion of “etiquette” that you imagine yourself to be having.

        As for “proportion”, that sounds so ridiculous coming from you it really should not be dignified by any form of response.

        • Shantam prem says:

          Buttons are pushed, baba Lokesh.
          Still, shots from you are much healthier than many other faceless characters full with all kind of smug.

          • Lokesh says:

            Buttons are pushed, my ass. Shantam, perhaps it is time to try and dislodge your self from that barrel of glue you have been inhabiting for so long.

            I mean you no harm when I say that it might be a good idea for you to sit down and consider what is being said to you. Perhaps that way you might see that you are stumbling along a path that leads to negative nowhere.

            Really, man, it is up to you. As you believe so the world will appear.

            Take care.

            • frank says:

              I wrote a couple of weeks ago:
              “People come up with viewpoints, opinions and arguments that are completely ludicrous and entirely untenable. It can be alien abductions, the fact that Trump and Putin are working together to undermine the deep state, chemtrails or a host of other utter nonsense.

              If people say nothing they must agree.

              And when people get irritated or have an obvious negative reaction, that is seen as proof that the nutter is onto something, otherwise, why the reaction?

              It`s a win-win strategy for whackjobs!”

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Yes, “putrid” (using the dictionary, I found that quite an appropriate comment).

      And YET – let´s look at the admin. level of the Chat and the editing of such posting itself.

      Shantam Prem (aka Iqbal Singh) asked as a start for comments from the “usual” contributors here re that topic, didn´t he? Kind of denying that the utmost of a usual contributor here is him, himself, going back to the time when all three of SN/UK Chat-editors were still alive (July 2008).

      Since then, he´s much more than less contributed innumerable versions of his agenda to fight OIF and the Resort in Pune (even when topics every now and then have been busy with quite some other contents).

      Meanwhile, some of the text of this fight could be accomplished (I´d suggest) like from a meanwhile programmed algorithm like a bot, just serving others who make the effort then to contradict, showing up with therapeutic suggestions or quoting as quoting can be – just to solve an obvious, very insoluble problem.

      It’s like the manifold heads of the Hydra of the myth, you know: if you try to cut one head (mind), two or more of two new monster-heads (minds) reappear in an instant.

      Mind Games…and I really miss what could be called an exchange, otherwise I wouldn´t write that.

      If one wants to kill a Chat of living beings, such exchange of bot-like contributions seems the way to do it.

      And – to keep on track with the issue of narcissism – if the hurt is too much hidden, or if narcissism´s very unhealthy aspects are used for a never-ending power-play, nothing can be done about it, especially on a viral plane. And if the masquerade of a psychopath is connected with the narcissism issue, nothing can be done about it either. Unfortunately.

      As you yourself found out on Ibiza island, it was quite something else when you met Shantam and spent some valuable time with each other.

      If you have an address (SN/UK-Caravanserai) to post some other stuff as a thread or topic, please go ahead. I don´t know where to adress such, I even don´t know how to technically comment on some of the update remarks which are commented on sometimes.

      Have a nice day on your Spanish island, Lokesh. And have a good break.
      That´s a good suggestion, for me as well….

      Madhu

      MOD:
      Madhu, it’s one thing to heavily criticise an article or a series of articles, but I think you need to recognise that it’s only due to Shantam’s enthusiasm for writing that SN has continued to provide a structure for discussion since the tributes to Parmartha were published after he left us last year.

      No one else has contributed anything, including you. So I think you should bear that in mind before you start sounding off about how terrible everything has become.

      If you want to write an article you can reach acting editor Satyadeva via the Caravanserai private message facility, as Shantam has done. Although there’ll be a separate email address confirmed eventually.

      Also, you say, “I even don´t know how to technically comment on some of the update remarks which are commented on sometimes.” Can you explain exactly what you’re referring to here, please?

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Your response was to be expected, MODs, thanks for that.

        Re your question at the end, I have to admit that I am IT-technically totally illiterate, quite an ´analogue person´, I´d say, when I am communicating here since I managed to instal my chat-contributor´s corner some 5 years ago.

        My goodness, if I only remember my hope to get in contact with a few sannyas friends of times long gone.
        Much of what was touched here these years was, still is, moving me…Tried to my best capacity to see the exchange as a meditation pratice. Still do.

        Madhu

  5. swami anand anubodh says:

    Shantam Prem,

    Is there anyone, anywhere, who is currently engaged in Osho’s ‘work’ and meets with your approval?

    Any examples?

    • shantam prem says:

      One name which came up in my mind spontaneously is Arun ji. He is Dalai Lama for late Osho.

      P.S:
      Osho is as dead as Buddha, maybe even more. Still I see no harm when people build some kind of work to engage people in the name of departed greats.

      • swami anand anubodh says:

        Shantam Prem,

        Let me first acknowledge your commendable efforts in providing topics for SN, as noted elsewhere in this string by the MODS. (Even if the articles have the unintended consequence (I presume) of confirming you as SN’s resident *’Aunt Sally’).

        To illustrate my point, in your P.S to me you state: “I see no harm when people build some kind of work to engage people in the name of departed greats.”

        But isn’t the premise of this topic (a.k.a ‘your topic’) the accusation of ‘grandiose narcissism’ for doing such?

        SP, I am not even going to ask you for a rational explanation of how you can be so contradictory, instead, I am off to the bar to buy a few more pints of ‘real ale’ (Old Speckled Hen, Doom Bar or Greene King IPA) and another basket of battens.

        *Aunt Sally, is a traditional English game usually played in pub gardens and fairgrounds, in which players throw sticks or battens at a model of an old woman’s head.

  6. shantam prem says:

    I think this post of yesterday from Chaitanya Keerti´s wall will show enough about the essence of this string about self-appointed meditation contractors representing Osho´s work.

    Sadhana is the lady who represents the honchos and machos of Osho Foundation.
    Ego games of small-minded people have ruined the collective work of master and His disciples.

    “Some Friendly Gossip For Sharing…

    Basically, I happen to be a lazy person who has so many wonderful friends around India and around the world who keep inviting me to facilitate meditation camps in their area. I find it quite hard to say No to them because No is not my way. No way to say No to friends.

    In the current situation, when laziness and travel fatigue is overpowering my being more often, Existence has blessed me with one longtime friend and colleague who has become very compassionate towards me. She is Amrit Sadhana, who has started travelling around India and Canada-USA, especially to those centres where I have been going. And she tells the centre leaders and other friends: “Aap Keerti aur Dilli walon ko nahi bulao” (“Do not invite Keerti and other facilitators”). I hope they listen to her good suggestion and I would have fewer places to travel.

    And I know my other friends, Ma Dharam Jyoti and Swami Satya Vedant, will be even happier. I travel to New Delhi, for a week or so, every month regularly to edit Hindi monthly magazine ‘Osho World’…and rest of the time is spent in writing articles for newspapers and magazines and the websites ‘Asian Age’, ‘Happy Ho’, ‘Life Positive’, ‘Ayurveda-Sutra’, ‘Sakhi’ etc…For me, this is more than enough.

    I feel grateful to friends like Sadhana for blocking some of my travels. I have not gone to Rajkot maybe for 7-8 years, and they have been sending me invitations but I could not find the time, though I was tempted. Now I know Sadhana went there, and she told them not to invite me. I feel that at least once I should go there – camp or no camp. So many times they brought for me Kesar mangoes, khakhara and special peanuts. I am grateful to all such wonderful friends.”

    • swami anand anubodh says:

      Shantam Prem,

      You finish the intro to this topic by writing: “Sometimes I wonder why none of the foreigners play the ambassador role for spreading Osho´s work of taking meditation camps.”

      Yet, at the same time you accuse those who do run meditation camps of being “self-appointed” and clearly regard them with disdain.

      So tell us, SP, how do you expect someone to run a meditation camp ‘without’ being self-appointed?

      • shantam prem says:

        Anubodh, delete “self-appointed” and then contemplate over the contents. Also imagine, people like you will still write faceless under the camouflage if master was alive, His community was alive.

        Matter of the fact is even the books are not alive. One can go into any bookshop anywhere in the world. Hardly one or two titles will be found, squeezed somewhere.

        I am trying to provoke a healthy discussion over the state of Sannyas and few smarter than smarts think i have an agenda against some management of a blown away cult.

        • satchit says:

          Yes, Shantam, I see that you worry if Sannyas goes in the right direction.

          I recognize you as a true fighter for true Sannyas.

          And yes, Madhu, “Meditation place”.
          Good if one watches the scenery from a hill.

          • shantam prem says:

            Satchit, Neo-Sannyas is just a test tube for research purpose of human behaviour of those who think themselves a kind of elevated beings.

            In reality, hustle and bustle of life on this planet is quite an interesting movie, scary and thrilling.

            More or less, I don´t think myself as part of prevalent Sannyas movement anymore.

            • satchit says:

              I would not trust on thinking, Shantam. Today one thinks this, tomorrow one thinks the opposite. Watching thinking is more relevant.

        • swami anand anubodh says:

          Please don’t tell me what to do, Shantam Prem.

          “Self-appointed” is the phrase you levelled against Chaitanya Keerti, for him having the temerity to use facebook for its intended purpose of communication amongst friends.

          Osho’s books can be found on Amazon, where they are alive and well. Not like your ‘stillborn’ work about ‘Neo-Sannyas’.

          I see the state of Sannyas as being healthy, it’s the state of yourself that is cause for concern.

          • shantam prem says:

            Sannyas is very healthy and no one knows who is Mr. Swami Anand Anubodh. Does someone know that lady with camouflage name?

            When followers of some guru lose dignity of being themselves and restore to facelessness, it shows much.

            MOD:
            Wrong on both counts, Shantam. Anubodh has long been known to the SN team, past and present. And he’s definitely not a woman!

  7. Rahul Aggarwal says:

    It can be an excellent Idea to do a sort of Exit Poll Survey of older and newer O Sannyasins about how many neo-sannyasins believe that the Master is still available Today and whether HIS presence is felt in meditation camps. Maximum number of people from north, west and the rest of India and western world sannyasins should speak from their Heart.

    Also, it should be clearly stated what and how much support is available for new takers of Malas.

  8. Anand Rahul (Rahul Aggarwal) says:

    I firmly believe that Sannyasnews has been the most transparent and unedited version presenting the true mind states of people who have been trying to discover their true selves by reading, listening, meditating on the erstwhile dismantled Sangha.

    What comes out as a result is sheer Catharsis in the form of thread postings on this superb forum.

  9. anandrahul says:

    A Sincere Introspection is needed by present day, former and wannabe MALA takers on the belief and capability to feel the availability of The Master in ongoing meditation camps.

    More important is it should be clearly defined what sort of help and spiritual environment is available and at what cost; especially for the newbies, before they adorn the lockets hanging from their necks.

  10. shantam prem says:

    I will refrain from offering new articles. Those who crave for better material can dig their skull to create better and intelligent topics.

    • swami anand anubodh says:

      SP,

      I am sad to read that you will no longer be offering new articles to SN.

      They say ‘every cloud has a silver lining’, which means you will now have the time to fully concentrate on your book about ‘Neo-Sannyas’ without any interruptions from the real world.

      I do hope so, as I am always on the lookout for free PDF downloads. And despite the sterling efforts from the Mods to throw you off the scent as to my true identity, I think it only fair (to save you sleepless nights of anguish and wondering, sleep you will need for your mammoth literary task ahead) to confess: I am a 48 year-old woman, from Nepal (real name: Susan).

      • Shantam prem says:

        Hi Susan from Nepal,
        If you are at facebook, be my friend but only after I check your identity through video messanger!

        • swami anand anubodh says:

          Shantam Prem,
          Never mind your ‘face’ in this non-narcissistic youtube video of yours, but look at Osho’s in the background, smiling at you, and with his right hand making the ‘Wanker gesture’….

  11. shantam prem says:

    I have an idea for someone to write an article about religions in the name of dead men and their grip on human psyche.

    Let me say one thing: to create a starting paragraph for a discussion is a creative writing, it comes from inside. Comments are easy to make, they are mostly out of reactions.

  12. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    A different reason, in order not to risk appearing nostalgic, narcissistic or anything else, is the ‘paralyzing condition’ that can bring inner ecstasy.

    When, thanks to that joy/trust, sometimes I become the best testimonial of Osho/Meditation/Love, I hardly find an interesting alternative to my just being in that here & now, in that abundance of possibilities all my preferences disappear.

    For this reason, I reiterate the importance of a structure that provides the Sangha, a space of non-judgment that knows how to recognize and appreciate the difference between laziness and inner celebration of existence without apparent reasons.

    The Sangha is the place where the personal preferences of those who are returning home are organized around the needs of the most fragile travelling companions, remembering how we are all fragile in front of those who have returned home in a more stable way.

    • satyadeva says:

      “Sangha is a word in Pali and Sanskrit meaning “association”, “assembly”, “company” or “community” and most commonly refers in Buddhism to the monastic community of bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. These communities are traditionally referred to as the bhikkhu-sangha or bhikkhuni-sangha.” (Wikipedia)

      Veet Francesco, why do you and others insist on using the Sanskrit term ‘Sangha”? What’s wromg with the word ‘community’, for instance? Too mundane, no glamorously mysterious eastern connotations, perhaps?

      “The Sangha is the place where the personal preferences of those who are returning home are organized around the needs of the most fragile travelling companions, remembering how we are all fragile in front of those who have returned home in a more stable way.”

      Sounds like you’re recommending a mental hospital, Veet! Presumably you don’t advocate dishing out medication as well as meditation, do you?

      Here’s a vaguely relevant anecdote, not to make a point but simply to ‘entertain’…

      In 70s Pune, I often used to hang out at night with a few local people I came across in the market area near the station, a motley crew, including a young, unemployed doctor, the son of a local hotel owner, a fruit and veg market trader, around whose stall we gathered, and one or two others. I got to hear about local life and had many good times there, part of the attraction being welcomed as a ‘special guest’, which, with no other sannyasins around, made a nice contrast.

      One day, another doctor came along, a man in his late 20s/early-to-mid-30s, who worked at the local mental hospital and who’d recently visited the ashram. He told me in no uncertain terms how he’d found the place more like a mental hospital than an ashram, pouring out a torrent of scathing criticism of what he’d witnessed, eg “people hanging around looking vacant, useless” and “Dancing? What good is that?”! Rather amusing, eh?

      I said a few things in response but he wouldn’t listen, clearly extremely proud of his own work, claiming he gave people “real help”, changing them, making them strong enough to live better lives etc. Implying, of course, that nothing like that occurred at Koregaon Park. Talk about ego…

      However, his energy, vitality and self-confidence convinced me he was probably doing a good job. He was also an actor in his spare time and I saw him perform the lead role in a play with a religious theme – impressive.

      Yet…something about him jarred – too much self-importance, conceit even, maybe he enjoyed being powerful in the context of his work in comparison to his disturbed clientele…ie too much ‘self’. So he probably knew at some level that Osho would threaten all that. Perhaps he hadn’t suffered enough…Or, perhaps it just wasn’t his time….

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        You’re right, Satyadeva, I hate foreign words too. Comunità is fine.

      • shantam prem says:

        And where is the community of westerners with Indian names?

        Satyadeva, you can also ask yourself, what is wrong with the Christian names, why this hollowness of Indian names?

        In my opinion, it is downright ugly, inhuman, disrespectful to the blood and family heritage. Thanks to human intelligence, that fashion and fad is over.

        • satyadeva says:

          Did your parents name you ‘Shantam Prem’, Shantam? If not, stop this hypocrisy and do as you advise others to do, please.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

          Matter of the fact is that it is certainly time for you, as a serious creative writer, guardian of Osho`s Vision and future Chairman of Osho Astrological Foundation (OAF), to pen magnum opus about religions in the name of dead men and their grip on human psyche!

          Not to do so would downright be ugly, inhuman, disrespectful to the blood and family heritage based on religions in name of dead men, especially those adherents like yourself who have steadfastly refused to remove same pair of underpants for 400 years which are now thoroughly imbued and caked with the energetic emanations of mighty Bhorat!

          These ugly western baboons like Satyadeva, who use hollow Indian names and culturally appropriate the wisdom of mighty Bhorat, are worse than religious people from East like Muslims who come to West to ogle women, receive all health benefits, free handouts and jobs, but endlessly complain and bang on about how the Gora doesn`t understand their true religion until people are sick to the back teeth of them!

          But, bhai, time is short! Now is the moment to write your meisterwerk!

          In inimitable style stemming from unique approach of mixing metaphors in leaky 1980s Bajaj non-export quality cement mixer with faulty wiring, the ultimate tome will be spontaneously produced from bowels of mighty Bhorat producing a brainstorming work of world-shattering significance:
          ‘The Sorry State Of Neo-Sannyas Since The Rise Of The Alcoholic Baboons’!

          Certainly, it is destined to be a cross between the final chapter of Guru Granth Sahib Title: ‘Government Grant Sahib’ and final books of Osho`s nitrous set: ‘Memories of a Golden Pumping Phase (88-90)’,and ‘Porn I Have Watched’, plus packed with astrological insights detailing the view from Uranus!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

        • satchit says:

          I like ‘Sangha’ and Indian names.
          Things must be a bit exotic.

          • satyadeva says:

            Why “must” they be “exotic”, Satchit? To make you feel you’re into something a bit ‘special’, ie out-of-the-ordinary, unusually valuable, above and beyond what most other people are into, superior – implying you’re a bit ‘special’ yourself?

            If so, typical western delusion.

            • frank says:

              The anthropologist Victor Turner and his idea of “Communitas” and its relation to structure can be interesting in relation to all this, if you`ve got the energy for that kind of idea-crunching.

            • satchit says:

              Typical western seriousness, SD.

              Life is sometimes too much water and bread. Indian names gives it a bit of a curry taste.

              • satyadeva says:

                Self-indulgent claptrap, Satchit, connected to self-glamourising, narcissistic tendencies often found in self-styled ‘spiritual’ people.

                • satchit says:

                  Too much “Self” for my taste, SD.
                  Put the Self away, then everything is fine.

                • satyadeva says:

                  I hear the unmistakeable sound of a blind-spot writing…

                  Just look at your meal, Satchit – YOU’VE put too much ‘self’ in that curry!

                • anand yogi says:

                  Perfectly correct, Scratchit!

                  Certainly it is utterly necessary to have curry sauce on over-serious Anglo-Saxon fish and chips and in bratwurst and kartoffel spiritual wasteland!

                  Curry is a must, like spiritual porn in rational prison of unemotional, rational, western penises to show that too much self triggers self-abuse!

                  In these matters, it is necessary to follow example of avatars such as Shantambhai who gobbles down as much curry as possible and experiences intense fire of devotion in lower chakras whilst remaining in state of let-go and no-mind as nature takes course and spontaneously writes masterpiece on rolls of paper supplied in individual meditation rooms of Europa Park!

                  Yahoo!

                • satchit says:

                  And now, SD, if you don’t like Indian names, why you call yourself Satyadeva and not Charles, or something else?

                • satyadeva says:

                  Well, Satchit, I only use “SD” here, nowhere else. You know, the ‘When in Rome’ principle.

        • swami anand anubodh says:

          Shantam Prem says:

          “And where is the community of westerners with Indian names?

          Satyadeva, you can also ask yourself, what is wrong with the Christian names, why this hollowness of Indian names?

          In my opinion, it is downright ugly, inhuman, disrespectful to the blood and family heritage. Thanks to human intelligence, that fashion and fad is over.”

          SP, when you speak of “intelligence”, it’s clearly something you lack in abundance. This “fad” of westerners taking Indian names was Osho’s ‘edict’.

          Did you not know this?

          All of your scathing criticisms are in reality a criticism of Osho, not westerners.

          • satchit says:

            Anubodh, maybe Shantam is just jealous.

            Poor fellow has only Indian names. Maybe we should give him a Christian name.

            Today is ‘Joseph’ name day. We could call him from now on Joseph. Or if he wants, Swami Joseph, so that the change is not so hard.

            Would you like it, Shantam?

            • swami anand anubodh says:

              Satchit,

              I suspect Swami Joseph is jealous of many things; top of his list is probably the way all things ‘Osho’ continue on without any positive or constructive input from himself (and cares little for his ‘narcissistic’ exile in obscurity).

              • shantam prem says:

                I have no interest to communicate with faceless people, it matters not what kind of truthful tags they hang around their names.

                The cowards calling themselves ‘Swami’ are repulsive in my eyes.

            • swami anand anubodh says:

              Satchit,

              Whilst Shantam Prem seems to be treated on SN by many (if not all) as a harmless figure of fun, there is one thing I find genuinely unpleasant about his character. It’s the way that whenever he has made a fool of himself, or lost an argument, he always plays the ‘faceless’ accusation card.

              It’s his way of trying to save ‘face’ by pulling from his rear end a code of ‘chivalry’ which (according to him) the victor has violated, and therefore everything can be dismissed.

              What he does not realise (or care about) is that any personal information he can elicit from you on SN, is also revealed to the 4.4 billion other Internet users.

              Is that really a good idea? Just to satisfy his curiosity, or to give him ammo for mischief-making at a later date?

              “Satchit, would you be courageous and man enough to tell something about you, your age, your marital status, your race etc?”

              A ‘goad’ to you, from him, in the previous topic.

              Translates as:
              “Satchit, if you don’t reveal enough personal information about yourself for somebody to commit ‘identity fraud’ then not only are you not a man! You are also a coward!’

              Sadly, you partially rose to the bait and revealed your age. Knowing someone’s age immediately tells a fraudster what type of fraud to target you with. At your age (if it was true) they could assume you had savings, and are therefore potentially ripe for an investment swindle.

              Shantam Prem has no fear of identity theft, as thieves looking at his would conclude he does not have a life worth stealing. In fact, they may take pity on him, and offer him one they have – which is surplus to requirements.

              • satchit says:

                Yes, I know what you mean, Anubodh.

                For me, it is okay if he plays the faceless-card. It is his freedom. But it is also my freedom to reveal what I want to reveal.

                I could live close to him in the Black Forest: if I have no desire to meet him physically, why should I reveal it?

                And he forgets one thing: saying that he does not want to communicate because of facelessness is also communication.

              • anand yogi says:

                Certainly, the cowards who are not real men wearing true underpants and revealing their marital status will be afraid of the might of Shantam`s words! The astronomical and astrological wisdom of which burst forth like cosmic radiation from Uranus!

                This is understandable, for, as an avatar of the true interpretation of Osho`s vision, Shantam is the most dangerous man since Jesus Christ!

                Despite all the vile words of the repulsive white men with Indian names, the truth will live on and he will survive!

                Yahoo!
                Hari Om!

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw3eP2JPFIY

                Amen!

                • swami anand anubodh says:

                  Yogi,

                  I hear an entrepreneur has noticed your posts on SN and wants to offer you a once in a lifetime (or any other lifetime) business investment, in an orange grove, in Northern Siberia.

                  He feels your writings show a discerning gusto, just the qualities he is looking for in a partner. But you must act quickly! As others are knocking on his door. So he suggests that you post your full banking details on SN – without delay! – so that he can arrange the transfer of your funds to his Swiss account immediately. Remember – time is short!

                  Then all you have to do is relax back and dream of how you intend to spend your 20% PA return.

                  Quickly, Yogi, without delay!

                  P.S:
                  If you have any doubts then please feel free to verify that: Lagos is the capital of Nigeria. Just to put your mind at ease.

                  P.P.S:
                  If you would rather invest by cash, then he can dispatch his ‘mule’, Singh Iqbal, to do the fetching and carrying.

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        With “fragile” I spoke about love, Hydradeva, no cognitive problem. I refer specifically to a change of existential approach, which costs nothing to those who want to share it, an anti-economic phenomenon: “The more you give, the more you have.”

        I hate cutting your head all the time.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra

        P.S:
        I will read better later what you wrote, I am going out to hunt for sweets typical of Father’s Day.

        https://www.amando.it/ricette/dolci-dessert/bigne-di-san-giuseppe.html

        • sw. veet (francesco) says:

          Satyadeva, about your shrink Indian friend who took himself too seriously, in my opinion another risk in doing things like leading an Osho meditation or running an OM, thus expressing our own preferences, is that inevitably we will not be able to please everyone, given that everyone has their own preferences, aesthetic and character; also with regard to how much passion to put in defending the choices that derive from our personal inclinations, in the case of possible criticism.

          For example, after a pause of about ten years (time dedicated to the socio-economic analysis of my unemployment) I’m playing football again with a group of people, among them relatives and acquaintances, and unlike the past I can’t take seriously the fights that happen during the game due to the beating we can give or take, more or less unintentionally.

          Today, I can’t get angry, in fact I often find myself mediating the fights (with success, enviable, by MOD), and the reason for me is that while I’m playing I’m already happy to be there, and winning the match is something more, a bonus.

          It seems to me that the English gentlemen here, unlike Indians and Italians, would on average not play these kind of passionate matches, being the reason that a soccer game should not be taken too seriously.

          But symmetrically, it could be said that not playing a football match for some verbal quarrel is just as much about taking yourself or your point of view too seriously.

          However, personally I have never had any problems with English sannyasins; during the groups I never took their tendency to give lessons about what to take seriously.

          SD, maybe your surname is Brown?
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gMrePRB0Fg

          • satyadeva says:

            Re your last paragraph:
            Er, no, Veet, it isn’t. Sorry about that.

            Yellow card!

            Re your speculation on how various people would play football:
            Well, perhaps you over-think it all, generalising, putting people in ‘boxes’.

            Who knows what might happen ‘in the moment’? Sometimes there’s a fine line between ‘angels’ and ‘villains’, although most are at neither extreme, but could potentially be provoked under certain circumstances.

            Second yellow card!
            Off you go, signor!
            Early bath!

  13. shantam prem says:

    Egosack Swami,
    Does this kind of attitude show ripeness in disciplehood?

  14. swami anand anubodh says:

    Shantam Prem,

    If you do ever become Chairman of Osho Foundation International, will you grant me free accommodation within the new invigorated and resurgent ashram?

    If you do, then in return, I will write for you far more witty and amusing replies to your critics then you seem able to muster.

    Is that a deal?

  15. satchit says:

    Maybe Shantam becomes Chairman of Europa Park.

    Why don’t westerners do Meditation Camps? This ‘why’ question you can always ask.

    Maybe because it’s Indian style to do it. And maybe because gurudom is more accepted in India than in the West.

  16. swami anand anubodh says:

    Satchit,

    Meditation ‘camps’ are run in the West.

    https://osho-sakshi.co.uk/

    It’s just that Shantam Prem only believes what he wants to believe, like these people…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gHbwT_R9t0