Veena talks of Vivek, her Friend.

Veena, after hearing Anando say in a recent radio interview in Australia that Nirvano was a schizophrenic, questions this statement and gives her point of view about her long-time close friend’s health.
(First published in Osho News, but without the facility to comment. )
Vivek first Mt. Abu camp
Vivek and Chinmayanda
Nirvano-laughing
Vivek-and-Prasad
Nirvano-in-darshan
Photo session
Photo session 2
Kathmandu
Kulu Manali

Many times over the years, people have asked me about Nirvano and what happened to her. And I heard people say awful things about her. But I didn’t say anything – except tell a few sweet anecdotes – because I knew she was a very private person and hated being the object of gossip and speculation. I understood and respected this. I also didn’t like to claim an association with her to make myself look important – name-dropping, as it were. No way did I want to use her and her position to bolster my own ego. I let things pass because so much of what was said was by people who simply didn’t know and who were just into gossip for gossip’s sake.

In the last week, however, I have heard something that totally shocked me. It was a statement in a radio interview by Anando who labelled Nirvano a schizophrenic (39:40) and said she had been a schizophrenic all her life and had been on medication all her life. These were Anando’s actual words – this wasn’t a journalist twisting words and reporting inaccurately.

This statement is completely untrue and I want now to speak out because I cannot allow a very dear friend to be so slandered. I still feel so hesitant because of Nirvano’s wish for privacy but then again, I thought: how would I feel if someone like Anando said something so untrue and no friend spoke out to defend me or set the record straight? If it were someone else, it wouldn’t matter so much but someone in Anando’s position….?

To give a bit of credibility to myself and what I want to say, I would like to say a few words about my relationship with Nirvano and why I feel so strongly about this. I first met her at the beginning of 1972. I had just returned from Goa to visit Osho again after my meeting with him the previous December. Nirvano, Vivek as she was then, had just returned from the UK to stay in India with Osho. The meeting was at a lecture given by Osho in Cross Maidan in Mumbai to quite a few hundred Indian friends who were sitting in rows on the ground in front of a platform on which Osho sat. I walked hesitantly down the side of the area and then noticed this beautiful young western woman sitting at the end of the third row. I went over to her and asked her if I could sit with her because being one western women amongst so many Indians was a bit daunting.

She said yes, probably for the same reason! Then I noticed there were four western women sitting up near Osho’s platform looking very holy and important! Mukta, Astha and two others. I asked Nirvano why she wasn’t sitting up there and she said she didn’t want to be important, she only wanted to be in the background. This was Nirvano. Despite being so close to Osho and taking on the huge task of taking care of him and his health and safeguarding him and defending him from so many demands for his attention, she never felt herself to be important and wanted only one thing: to keep him safe.

My respect for her was enormous.

In the Mumbai days, Osho arranged for her and myself to share a flat and later to also live together when we went up to Mount Abu. When we moved to Pune, I first worked (editing) in Lao Tzu and then lived there – at Osho’s invitation. On the Ranch I first had the PR job so lived near Jesus Grove but later, when Osho started talking and more robes were needed, I moved back into the Ranch Lao Tzu House. And for most of Pune 2 I also lived in Lao Tzu House. Basically Nirvano was my ‘boss’ throughout the whole time – Pune 1 and 2 and the Ranch, a 20-year long period – and I worked closely with her in many different areas. She was a reserved person, not given to chatting much, but she was straight and clear and at times wielded an effective Zen stick. She was a Zen master in her own right! She was also a good friend and we had many laughing times together.

To say she was schizophrenic throughout this time is absolutely incomprehensible! She had her little trips, she wasn’t perfect, but she was not mad and she was for sure not on any kind of medication. I am quite perceptive. I would have noticed if there was even a hint of anything like this. She was as sane as anyone of us, and definitely more aware!

Nirvano was very upset about Osho going to the USA. She was not sure if she could adequately take care of him and, even at that stage, she didn’t trust Sheela. Laxmi and she had had their confrontations but underneath they worked in harmony together as both of them thought only of Osho. Sheela was a different ballgame. She was at first massively jealous of Nirvano and this turned to obsessive hatred. Nirvano bore the brunt of all this negativity directed towards her and, with her stress about taking care of Osho properly, her health started to weaken. Although I wasn’t living in Lao Tzu House I had permission to go there – I often did driving errands as she knew she could trust me. She confided in me how worried she was about a common female complaint, PMT, and she felt bad that she couldn’t get control over it. I don’t remember exactly the occasion but Osho spoke about it once on the Ranch and said that one could take birth control pills, not for the normal function, but to help with the hormones, and how well this could help.

As we well know things started to go very wrong during the last two years of the Ranch. Lives were threatened, murders were attempted, the locals had guns trained on Osho when he went out. We knew the house was bugged and Nirvano no longer knew who she could trust to take care of Osho. Sheela tried to get rid of the people in the house by saying we all had conjunctivitis (not true) so that she could move in and be Number 1. It was a tense, ugly, frightening situation. In the house we were being trained to cope with police or FBI raids – I was even given a gun and we took turns patrolling the grounds at night. It was horrible, and Nirvano’s health deteriorated. She started to get extreme mood swings just like women get before their monthly period. Every woman reading can identify with this. But of schizophrenia there was never a sign.

Then Osho left and for a few hours I breathed a sigh of relief until hearing the ghastly news that Osho and Nirvano and others had been arrested and thrown into jail.

Fast forward… back in Pune Nirvano recovered for a while but, those who were there at that time, know that it was a difficult time for everybody. We had all been deeply disturbed by what had happened at the Ranch. It also became obvious that Osho’s health was deteriorating and this upset Nirvano further. Somewhere during this time, one of the commune doctors decided she was schizophrenic and started giving her lithium, a terrible drug to which she reacted badly. I was horrified watching all this and just kept thinking: no, no, no, this isn’t right. Then someone else decided she was bi-polar and she was given other medication. Nirvano herself knew she had a hormonal disorder but whenever she tried to say something about this she was ridiculed. I think her protestations were regarded as further signs of her being deluded. At that time Gayan and myself were visiting her often, and being women, what Nirvano was saying about hormones made perfect sense to us. She showed all the symptoms of PMT but to an extreme.

(In all fairness, though, I acknowledge that Nirvano’s connection with Osho made it difficult to know quite how to help or treat her. This was no ordinary situation.)

Then one day I went to see her and she was very excited. She told me that a visiting sannyasin, who was a qualified, practising doctor in Europe, had given her the address and telephone number of a clinic of good repute in Switzerland which dealt solely with women with hormonal disorders. He recommended that she phone them. Nirvano told me she had just had an hour-long discussion with a doctor at the clinic and he had actually laughed and told her she was a classic case with totally classic symptoms and if she came to the clinic they could treat and cure her in two to three months.

The relief in her beautiful face that she had finally been heard, that her feelings about what was wrong with her had been confirmed and that she could be treated and cured was deeply touching to see. I was in tears. I told her immediately I would go with her and take care of her. I was actually based in Switzerland at the time and knew there were many competent professional sannyasins with medical backgrounds who would help for sure.

I hoped so much that she could get better for her own sake but I also knew that Osho missed her very much. It had been my feeling from early Pune 1 days that she was Osho’s anchor to the planet. I can’t even find words to describe the connection I sensed between them. The energy was tangible yet something out of this world – and she was the grounding force. Osho had spoken many times of how enlightened beings needed something to anchor them to this earth because basically they were no longer in the body and there was no reason for them to linger on. My feeling had always been: take care of Nirvano and Osho would in turn be taken care of. So my motives in helping her were two-fold. I sensed that Osho would be leaving us soon and if he could be persuaded to stay because of Nirvano being healthy and strong again, then it was worth every effort to help her. She was convinced herself that this was the right thing to do.

But of course, we both knew that Osho had to be consulted and I left her that afternoon with strict instructions to call Osho (she had a direct phone line to his room) and tell him what she had found out. But when I went to see her the next day she was very depressed and told me he had said she was to stay there. The connection between them was so beyond understanding that I accepted this – how could I question it?

I now know that neither Osho nor the people around her, me included, realised the dangers of her condition, specifically that suicide was a real possibility for someone with her condition. All the information about extreme PMT, now called PMDD (see below), mentions this. (From the Gia Allemand Foundation website: When acute stress exceeds an individual’s ability to cope, thoughts can turn to suicide. PMDD greatly exacerbates the stress of everyday life and can leave women feeling so overwhelmed that suicide seems like their best or only option. PMDD sufferers have shared thoughts like “everyone would be better off without me” and “I don’t know how much longer I can do this.”) I know Nirvano felt deeply guilty and miserable that she was causing a disturbance that she couldn’t control. She said so on a number of occasions.

And I have long pondered Osho’s comment on her death – his words were: Her death was untimely. I hesitate to interpret anything that Osho did or said, especially when it applied to other people and not me personally, but I put forward the conjecture that he knew he would be leaving the body soon and that once he was gone, Nirvano would be free to function without considering him – meaning she could seek out the medical treatment she needed to recover. But while he was still in the body, he wanted her near him, no doubt for a huge variety of reasons which we can never fathom.

I want to make two further points.

I have heard people say when something went wrong or was bad: Oh, I am sure Osho just laughed about it. This isn’t strictly true. Often he did laugh but there were times when he was passionate about something and got irritated or angry. And sad.

Towards the end of Pune 2 I was living in a room in Riverside because I was no longer working in Lao Tzu House as Osho had put me in charge of Creative Arts. I was very busy one day and the next day I took the day off – we could do that in those days. I only came to the commune for the evening discourse. That night I was opening the right-hand door of the podium when he went into Buddha Hall. The other two positions were the left-hand door and the car door. I always privately thought to myself that the right-hand door was the ‘hot seat’, because when Osho had finished greeting everybody and turned to leave the podium, you were right there in front of him and totally exposed! Nowhere to hide! He could see into the innermost core of your being. Scary!

That night I took my position but I was aware of something strange. I couldn’t make it out. And of course, we didn’t talk. Then Osho drove up in the car and got out and I was immediately engulfed in a huge oceanic wave of sorrow. These are the only words I can use to describe it. I was totally shocked. I had never felt anything like this before. It was as if there was a thick cloud of existential sorrow surrounding him and touching us. When I went to my seat I was shivering with a kind of cold – not of fear – but of unease, alarm, and deep, deep sadness. After the short sitting we took our places again to open the doors and the feeling was more intense. When Osho rounded the back wall behind his chair, for the first time ever I felt I was intruding when I looked at him. He was so open there was never a feeling of being intrusive but this time I could not look at him. I closed my eyes and bowed my head onto my namasted hands and took a small step backwards so as not to intrude on his space in any way. Yet still he stopped and put both his hands around mine, nodded slightly, and went to the car.

I was desperate to get away and went straight home to try to understand what had happened. It was only when I went back to work the next morning that I heard that Nirvano had died the afternoon before.

To this day, I don’t know exactly what to make of this experience. But I know I felt an unearthly sorrow far beyond my comprehension.

As the years passed I thought of my beloved, misunderstood friend often and wondered what exactly had happened to her. Did I trust her with her own diagnosis of her problem or did I trust untrained medical men who had their own agenda? I have always chosen to trust her.

Then, about twelve years ago there was a case in the media of a woman who killed both her young children and then herself. The medical diagnosis was that she had previously been diagnosed as suffering from a condition called PMDD: Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder. When the symptoms were described I immediately thought of Nirvano. These symptoms were hers exactly. Was she right in her self-diagnosis? I have now researched this condition extensively and am absolutely convinced that she was right and, had she been listened to instead of being fobbed off with unqualified guesswork and wrongly administered medication, she could have quite easily been cured and lived a longer happier life. And consequently, I feel, Osho might have been with us longer as well.

Nirvano did not ever have schizophrenia, and she had not been on medication until the end when she was irresponsibly given seriously wrong and damaging medication.

I loved her then and I love her now and I hope that what I have written will dispel at least some of the awful things that have been said about her and that people will be able to empathise with her and understand the very difficult and tragic situation she – and in the end, Osho – was in.

In conclusion I want to say very clearly that all that I have written is my personal opinion only. I am not a medical doctor (although I do have a degree in Psychology and studied various mental ailments including schizophrenia) and I base my opinions only on what I observed and heard. But I offer this as a different point of view, hopefully a more thoughtful and compassionate one than has hitherto been voiced. And I offer the photographs in the slide show, too. Are these portraits of a life-long schizophrenic on life-long medication? I don’t think so.

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46 Responses to Veena talks of Vivek, her Friend.

  1. Lokesh says:

    Read this the other day on Facebook. Comes across as heartfelt and sincere. Also good to hear how deeply touched Osho was by all this. Always good to hear about his human side as opposed to thinking he was beyond it all. I find such reports refreshing.

  2. Parmartha says:

    Seconded, Lokesh.

  3. shantam prem says:

    Veena has no vested interest. She does not need to sell her conscience.

    For her remaining spiritual hunger she goes to China and not to some hocus-pocus sannyas circle.

    • satyadeva says:

      Shantam, Veena says she was upset at how the new regime changed the Pune ashram, and it did take a long time, around 18 years, for her to come to terms with it all. It might be worth your while to read her account of this process (in ‘Glimpses of My Master’, Chapter 9).

      (By the way, contrary to your “vagabonds” claim earlier today, she also states that she’s “extremely proud of how successfully sannyasins have made this transition. It is a great testament to Osho that we have not only survived as sannyasins but flourished…we have been able to live rich and deeply fulfilling lives albeit with a few hiccups along the way.”).

      Despite the intense heartache at seeing an unwelcome (to her) change in Pune, where she’d been throughout Osho’s time there, Veena recognises that, after having been in Pune and in Oregon, “the baby bird has to leave the nest to be free to soar into the unknown alone…”

      But the final acceptance of the situation happened when she came across an Osho quote from a Hindi discourse where “he said that around him two groups would form…the exoteric group who would be organisers, concerned with society and the outside world and concerned with preserving what he was saying” and “the esoteric group…individuals …concerned with the inner world. As their emphasis was different these two groups would come into conflict with each other. He said that the first group would become an establishment and would immediately try to eliminate the esoteric group as it was always a threat. The esoteric group would never form a group but go on working as individuals. He said this would always happen and that nothing could be done about it.” (‘The Great Challenge’, Chapter 9).

      Realising the truth of this she “understood and enbraced one of Osho’s most favourite and important quotes – Buddha’s words: “Be a light unto yourself.” ” And it was after this point that she was mysteriously led to China, to meditate in Bodhidharma’s cave.

      Now, is this any use to you, Shantam? And which group are you in? Surely not a rival exoteric group, given how dismissive you are about ‘mere’ books etc? Although you are obsessively concerned with ‘power issues’, how things should be run and who should run them. So is it the esoteric one – you know, the one with all the ‘spiritual glamour’? But meditation’s not your cup of chai, is it? And let’s face it, tarot and astrology are poor substitutes for that…

      So what exactly would you want in any Pune 3 (or 4)? ‘Esoteric-lite’, perhaps – some late night chat about ‘spiritual matters’, a ‘nice’ feeling of community, a convenient ‘comfort zone’ for you to while away your declining years, plus, hopefully, renewed chances of hooking up with a few broad-minded ladies? And some rent at last from your flat?

      Sounds good enough, sure – but is it anything to do with what an ashram is supposed to be about?

      • Parmartha says:

        Good stuff, SD.
        If Shantam can understand that leaving a commune can have as much value as joining one, it might be an amazng advance for him. And he might finally get rid of wanting to recreate Pune 2 into a Pune 4. He was happy in Pune 2 and, I think, 3. But arguably much too comfortable. Being with a Master is not about comfort….

        • shantam prem says:

          “Being with a Master is not about comfort….”
          P, don´t you need to say, “Thank you, Sheela for doing my master´s work so efficiently!”?

          • Parmartha says:

            No. I stayed the course as a commune member before and after Sheela’s leaving, and wasn’t unhappy inwardly.

            You, on the other hand, have to admit that Amrito has made your life very uncomfortable and you left the commune or got ejected because of whatever, when you left Pune 3, or your woman at the time insisted, and with good reason. And that as a disciple that might be an enormous thing for you to admit!

      • Arpana says:

        I wonder if sannyasins/a lot of us/some of us have problems processing grief and loss, because we’re supposed too celebrate death?

        I realised, within the last ten years, I felt loss and grief for a
        part of my life that ended round about the time I took sannyas. Was a death and I actually didn’t recognise it as a death for years, and involved the loss of so many people, a way of life.

      • Lokesh says:

        Good post, SD. I can relate to it.

  4. shantam prem says:

    Till now, whosoever has written about 11th December, 1989, Veena’s account oozing unbiased humanness.

    I too was in Buddha Hall during that evening, in the back rows. What I remember is complete view of Osho walking in, Namaste in a very fragile body, and a calmness, and my inner was asking, “How master is holding his sadness and loss like a chivalrous commander-in-chief?”

    While writing this the scene saved on the brain cells is making my eyes wet for the master on that human body and His people excluding power centres and those junkies who paint Osho as plastic doll devoid of human emotions and fragility.

  5. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    The Beauty of this thread content – is – that Veena knows what Friendship in a Sangha around a Master is about. Others don´t!

  6. Levina says:

    Feeling touched by the frankness of Veena’s story about Nirvano. From where I can see it it’s about the path to awakening as a woman.

    Nirvano being so close to the Master it is clear went through heaven and hell. The effect of heaven is easy to see on the photos, the depth of radiance and serenity is beautiful. Then the equal and opposite side, not so beautiful, dark nights of the soul. Then her particular body-mind set-up (hormones, pmt) probably intensified that.

    I can totally understand that she grabbed on to anti-depressants in her dark states, not knowing about the side-effects, about which it is now known can lead to suicide. What I cannot understand is why Osho ‘allowed’ her these harmful allopathic medicines but didn’t ‘allow’ her to go to Switserland for a more naturopathic approach.

    As far as I know, during that time she wasn’t physically looking after Osho any longer, so what was the big deal?

    The other thing I cannot comprehend is that Osho himself, before his enlightenment, went through extremely dark states, so he must have totally understood Nirvano’s plight. Did he guide her through it? But just during this, for her, difficult time, she wasn’t taking care of him any longer!

    I can imagine she must have felt totaly alone, the main ingredient for dying before you physical die. And she did die, but how we shall never know, but Osho called it an “untimely death”.

    • frank says:

      Levina,you say:
      ” I cannot understand is why Osho ‘allowed’ her these harmful allopathic medicines but didn’t ‘allow’ her to go to Switserland for a more naturopathic approach.”

      There is a pattern here,including Osho`s purported advice to Sheela to knockout on sleepers for a few days after her husbands death.
      Too much misguided faith in modern “medicines” and appallingly mistaken prescriptions by mistaken people thereof.

      I`m not going to win any popularity contests for saying it but, if you don`t take sex tips from the Pope,why would you take medical tips from a bloke necking downers and puffing gas?

      • anandrahul says:

        “I cannot understand is why Osho ‘allowed’ her these harmful allopathic medicines but didn’t ‘allow’ her to go to Switserland for a more naturopathic approach.”

        The enlightened master knew beforehand that Switzerland would be mecca refuge for another disciple secretary.
        Too many cooks spoil the broth.

      • Levina says:

        Yes Frank, the mind boggles!

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, Frank, I agree. Many Indians have turned their back on traditional medicine, opting instead for allopathic chemicals. Meanwhile, the West is increasingly turning to alternate cures. People are getting hip to the fact that sugar is poison, along with a lot of the junk the high street pharmacies sell. On the other hand, their is much to be said for western medicine. That said, both my wife and I are alive, swimming and walking around due to treatments we received in European hospitals. A question of balance. I believe in preventative medicine. My daily intake is comprised of chaga tincture, cq10, zinc, selenium, fish oil and a garlic and ginger concoction my favorite witch brewed up for cleaning arteries, tastes horrible and is just what the good doctor ordered. I also talk to trees.

      • Arpana says:

        “If all you see in the world is frustration, misery, cruelty, tragedy and malevolence, and that’s crushing you, then you can ask yourself, well, are you so certain that you’re aiming at the right thing.

        Now I’m not saying that all people suffering is a consequence of the inappropriateness of their aim. I think that’s a big mistake because there’s an element of life that’s sort of ineradicably arbitrary. The fact that bad things happen to good people, it’s basically as simple as that, or terrible things happen to good people even. Or even that terrible things happen to bad people – there’s a randomness element to it, and you don’t want to get too high on your horse about that and assume that something bad happened to you because it’s your fault.

        Sometimes it’s your fault, and sometimes there’s something you can do to decrease the probability that that will happen again. But sometimes you’re just, you know, you got hit by a bus and the bus jumped the kerb and that’s just how it is.”

        Dr. Jordan B Peterson – ‘Transcendental Goalsetting, The Power of Fear and The Hero’s Journey’

      • Parmartha says:

        I agree it has always been one of Osho’s weaknesses that he ‘believed’ in western medicines, and thought little of other medicines. This was also the case of science where he often took over scientific lines and confusions and pooh poohed other lines of enquiry.

        I have myself found this common in all third world elites.

        However, whilst he was himself going through a major nervous breakdown when he was 19/20 years of age his father showed more wisdom and followed some eastern doctor’s advice to simply let him go through it rather than take any medicines.

        So we have a lot to be thankful for around Osho’s father.

      • Tan says:

        Frank boy, why do you believe in Sheela?

        She is the one who starting to tell the world that “Bhagwan is on drugs” with tears in her eyes. She used to call him “gas bag” or something like that. The idea was that everybody should know it.

        And about the Pope giving advice about sex, you would be surprised how experienced they are…

        Wake up! Cheers!

        • swamishanti says:

          I heard that she used to call him “gas bag” – I think it was in Maneesha’s book, but she was referring to his discourses in Poona one, which she found boring, not the dental sessions.

          • Tan says:

            I don’t agree, SS.

            The ‘undercurrent people’ wanted that Osho should be seen as a drug addict. In that way, his work could fail. They had some success, anyway.

            And Sheela was just a puppet for these people.

            Conspiracy theory? Up to you to decide.

            Cheers!

            • Lokesh says:

              William Burroughs was a drug addict, which was one of the reasons people bought his books. Keith Richards has been on drugs most of his life and his work is sold all over the world.

              Osho’s big mistake was not publishing a book titled ‘The Laughing Gas Buddha Experience’.

              Oh yeah, and could you please describe to me what Osho’s work was, Tan? After all, I used your name for my band, TAN TAN TANIT. Just received a royalty cheque for $100,000 and I have you to thank in part.

              • Tan says:

                You are welcome!

                Osho touched thousands of individuals, in different ways. To me, his work was to make us ‘to go in’.

                He took pity on us because we were in the gutter, so with a mixture of clown and madman, he created therapies, sannyas, meditations, discourses, and the list is endless.

                And most of us are still in the gutter. But, at least, we have a starting point.

                Cheers!

                • Arpana says:

                  Tan said,

                  “But, at least, we have a starting point. Makes all the difference!”

                  Yeah. I like that.
                  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

                • frank says:

                  Yes,
                  Osho`s work was to go in.
                  Then go out,
                  Then back in.
                  In out, in out,
                  Shake it all about.

                • frank says:

                  That`s what it`s all about!

                • Tan says:

                  Yep!

                  Why do you think he was called “the sex guru”?
                  In and out and minding the gap, and for many of us, during all the eternity.
                  And for some, just a quick one is enough!
                  Cheers!

                • Lokesh says:

                  “All about” – Wow, that is really cosmic, man. Like “All” is everything and “about” is like, about everything. Amazing!

          • sannyasnews says:

            SSS is right, Gas Bag was a term that Sheela used in late Poona one re Osho as she hated his long talks…. and the expectation she stay awake through them.

    • Lokesh says:

      Levina asks, during that time she wasn’t physically looking after Osho any longer, so what was the big deal?
      Erm…the cavalry coming over the hills at Little Big Horn…boyfriend with a drug problem…not enough money to buy another Rolls Royce…tough titties down in the lab cooking up a batch of salmonella…a bug in her bedroom…pals getting jabbed in the arse with syringes loaded with zyclon b…. rikshaw wallahs overcharging….a fly in the chappati mix…radiation poisoning…nothing good on the telly….four hour long discourses about Ronald Raygun….the racket from the morning’s dynamic meditators…you know, the everyday kind of shit any woman hitched to the world’s most controversial guru might have to put up with.

  7. Arpana says:

    @frank, 6 May, 2018 at 10:18 am

    You’re a cunning old fox, Frank.

    Now I won’t be able to criticise you for always coming up with the most negative remarks you can.

    • Arpana says:

      So easy to know the perfect behaviour Nirvano should have enacted all these years after the event.

      Lucky to have so many perfect individuals posting at Sannyas News.

  8. Kusum says:

    Anando & Veena both are right in their own ways .Anando is looking as a psychologist point of view & Veena is looking it as medical way.Mind & body are inter connected.If body is not in harmony ,it affects the mind as well.

    • Lokesh says:

      Kusum announces, “If body is not in harmony it affects the mind as well.”

      I thought about this in great depth, Kusum, under a tree in Manhattan’s Central Park. If what you are saying is true it would mean that when people are ill in some way they would feel unwell. Surely this could not possibly be true.

  9. Kusum says:

    & vice versa.

  10. Prem says:

    I cannot bear to watch most of Osho’s discourses in Poona 2 because he looks very sick. He looks like he is in a lot of pain and suffering.

    I can only imagine what it was like for Vivek. She had to take care of Osho every day, getting him dressed, taking care of his body, being with his body most of the day. She must have been aware more than anybody that Osho was dying, and in great pain.

    Over the years, she has learned how to listen to Osho’s body better than Osho. She knows this body so well that she is able to anticipate his asthma attacks in advance.

    She took care of this body every day for 20 years.

    She also had a deep connection with Osho.

    Is it possible that she died one month before Osho left his body, because she knew he was dying and he could not live without him?

    That she was so in tune with him. I can only imagine what it was like for her to take care of his body from morning till night, every day, and to sense that he is in so much suffering and pain, and to sense – EVERY MOMENT OF THE DAY – that he’s dying and, being deeply connected with him, to feel his suffering.

    I couldn’t have lasted one day.

    She must have known Osho was dying, felt it every moment, and she was so attuned to him that she ‘lived’ his death.
    In many other cases, when the master dies the disciple also dies.

    Veena makes it sound that she killed herself because she was crazy because of a hormonal imbalance.

    Veena, you doofus, maybe there is more to it than a hormonal imbalance.

    Osho about Vivek:

    “It is going to happen to many of my sannyasins. The day I disappear, many of you are going to disappear with me.

    Vivek again and again says to me, “I don’t want to live a single moment when you are gone.” And I say to her, “Don’t be worried. Even if you want to live, you will not be able to.”

    Just the other day, Deeksha was saying to Vivek, “Once Osho is gone, I am gone.” That is true. But this is not only true about Vivek and Deeksha, this is true of many of you. And this is not something that you have to do, it will simply happen of its own accord. It will be a happening. But it is possible only if you allow total trust to happen.”

    ‘Book of Wisdom’, Ch 14, Q.1

    “Look at Vivek, who has been with me longest — for fifteen years. When she first came, she was only twenty; now she is thirty-five. Almost half of her life she has been with me. And she has served me with an immense devotion, love, care, such that you can only find in ancient stories about women, not in reality. From the morning when I wake up, till at night when I go to sleep, she is running all around. She has no time of her own, every moment she is devoted. ”

    ‘From Bondage to Freedom’, ch. 14

    “Sudha:
    So your whole work and your whole meditation has been to look after him? Your whole everything!

    Vivek:
    Yes, yes. To look after his body. In a way I can see it needs a lot of looking after. In another way it doesn’t need much looking after, you just have to float with it.

    I learned that it was much better than worrying myself sick about it which is what I used to do. I used to become so depressed when he became ill but now I have learned to accept what happens to his body and at the same time do the absolute best that I possibly can. It really helps his body if I don’t become unhappy about his illnesses.

    So now I look at the situation and just do everything I can do to help him. When he gets ill, you can’t say “Okay, now what does he have? Give him this medicine or that medicine.” You have to look at what he has, and look at his eyes, look at his face. And then you sort of see, “Well perhaps this will do.” But you can’t say that because he has this thing and the doctors say you have to give him that, that you just give him that. So you have to feel. Before, the first few years, he was…he wasn’t…he was very…he wasn’t helping in any way in the sense that…

    Sudha:
    He wasn’t helping you to take care of him?

    Vivek:
    No! When he was ill he wouldn’t say that he wasn’t feeling well, but now he does. Now he helps too. He says, well, this is happening and that’s happening – “Perhaps if you give me this drug it will help.” Before he used to not even say that he was feeling ill!

    And the worst thing was when he was having attacks, asthma attacks. Obviously, when it had happened I could tell. But now he says when he feels it coming, and it’s beautiful–you just give him the drug. It doesn’t stop it but it relieves the worst part of it, the choking, and the part that stops him breathing. So now he’s beautiful – he says when he feels that something is coming up, and before he never even used to say when it was actually happening. I would just have to feel.”

    Interview with Vivek:
    http://www.sannyasnews.org/sannyasnews/Articles/vivek.html

    • sannyasnews says:

      In Poona Two, Vivek did not ‘take care’ of Osho very much, and spent some time away from the ashram with her medical problems.

      She spent time, for example, in the UK and had treatment here. She even stayed here in Parliamnet Hill in the flat of a friend of SN.

      Osho had various other carers at that time. So this story about Osho feeling more unwell in Pune Two is a convenience of those who had various PR motives around his so-called poor health. We have seen many lectures from Osho from Poona Two, where he is definitely and clearly on form.

      Arun also gives us this sort of spiel but for a different reason, he says Osho should not have been talking in Poona Two; not sure why he says this, and he does not encourage his disciples to watch those lectures.

      What a fool….

      • swamishanti says:

        Yes, what a strange act from Arun.

        The Poona Two lectures are certainly some of the best, in my opinion.

        • Parmartha says:

          Yes, thanks, SS.
          I think he, Arun, like many, is someone overidentified with certain periods in Sannyas. In his case, Poona 1. He went to the Ranch, but very briefly, and did not like it at all, apparently.

          I am not sure about Poona 2, but he clearly did not like the lectures from this period. I suspect it was that many had zen as their inspiration, and he certainly is not zen-like in any way. He began his own movement quite soon into Poona 3, as far as I know.

          If you cared to research why he so dislikes the Poona 2 lectures then at SN we would be interested in such help as we seem to have a lot on at the moment.

          • swamishanti says:

            Osho did focus a lot on zen on his last talks, but these last talks didn’t really begin until April, 1988.

            Before that he spoke on Kahlil Gibran’s ‘The Prophet’ and on Zarathustra, as well as outling his vision at the time with talks like
            ‘The Rebel’, ‘The Rebellious Spirit’, ‘The Golden Future’ and ‘The New Dawn’, where he laid out his ideas for the New Man and Woman.

            He also spoke on women’s liberation and answered many questions about meditation.

            It may be Arun is a bit of a traditionalist. He seems he is attracted to a more traditional Hindu approach to Sannyas. Perhaps he found talks like ‘The Rebel’, where Osho basically slags off all the old traditions, threatening in some way.

            But there were also the mantra series:

            ‘Om shanti shanti shanti
            Sat chit anand
            Hari om tat sat
            Om mani padme hum
            Satyam shivam sundram.’

            There was ‘The Invitation’:

            “You will have to move many steps and on many paths just to come to yourself, because you have gone far away from yourself. You have completely forgotten the way back. I am a reminder, a remembrance, of the lost home.

            As a person I do not exist.

            As a person I only appear.

            I exist as a presence.

            Since the day I came to know myself, the person disappeared. There is only a presence, a very living presence that can quench your thirst that can fulfil your longing. Hence, in one word I can say I am an invitation, of course just for those who have a deep longing in their hearts…”

            Removing these talks from his playlist seems a strange thing to do. A bit like sticking with ‘Please Please Me’ and ‘Paperback Writer’ but not being fond of the Beatles’ later stuff.

            Don’t get me wrong, the Poona One talks were beautifull and poetic, more than enough, but…

            You say Arun was not fond of the Ranch, but I have seen a video where he revisits the Ranch, how it is in recent years, with his friends all dressed in orange and malas, and they sing along to some old Rajneeshpuram tracks, in their vehicle, and then when they arrive on the Ranch they were bowing down and literally scraping up the soil like holy ash and they took some of it back home in jars.

            But I will chase it up and enquire as to why Arun is not fond of the Poona Two material. Whatever it is, I’m sure we can find out.

            • sannyasnews says:

              Yes we are aware of the recent Ranch video. but Arun spent very little time on the Ranch, two or three festivals as I recall.
              He has written an autobiography and when we get it back from someone who has lent it we will check.

  11. deva sugit says:

    Anando has replied. It is at the end of Veena’s writing on OshoNews.

    • frank says:

      Here it is. Reply from Anando (5.5.2018):

      Veena is right. In the heat of the moment of a rather stressful interview (I had been expecting to talk about my personal experiences at the Ranch, not answer questions like that) the wrong word popped out to describe Nirvano’s condition. I felt terrible about it afterwards, and am so happy to have the opportunity to rectify it, thanks Veena.

      In retrospect, of course I should have kept my mouth shut, but my intention had been to show there was a simple medical reason for what happened. Nirvano told me herself that she had been treated for her condition as a child. And as she got older, unfortunately it became worse, much worse in her last few years. It was something she had no control over.

      Osho, who loved her very much, said she had done all she could with the body she had. And he asked that in her memory a plaque be placed on the wall of Osho House in Pune, with her photo. It is a great photo that shows the beautiful, absolutely unique, authentic and total woman that is the Nirvano we all remember.

      • frank says:

        By a remarkable synchronicity, I met Swami Ali whilst having a quiet pint in a pub in Salisbury last night. He asked me to deliver this message:

        “This sannyas propaganda machine not good. OIF need to create FSB (Factual Sannyas Bulletin) with Swami Vladimir Ali at helm.
        First, Anando not know difference between schizophrenia and PMT. Every sannyasin know PMT is Pune Municipal Transport. Then she not remember what illness Vivek actually have. To be fair, this easy mistake to make. Staff in Chernobyl State Electroshock hospital make this kind of mistake every day, especially when receiving orders from HQ.

        What she do next? Blame Russia? This what happen when western baboons let women out of kitchen and into inner circle.

        In Pune 2, Osho big admirer of Stalin. He say Stalin`s vision necessary for humanity. You tell inner circle that necessary to implement Stalin`s vision before Osho’s vision can take hold. Must make sure that all contributors to RT (‘Rajneesh Times’) sing from same hymn sheet.

        This Anando put foot in mouth on Australian radio. This bad. Maybe Swami Ali have to come Sydney and put foot in ass for loving reminder.
        I can work for Inner Circle. I like gurus. My Black Cobra organisation do much work for gurus and gangsters. They speak same language, my language: “Boss is always right, even when wrong. Boss is right.”

        Stalin, Putin, Osho, Ozen all agree in lineage of ultimate wisdom! See what happen when depraved western freedom of speech start to happen?
        Everything become confused. This no good.

        Anando say, “I should have kept mouth shut.” This true. Next time call Swami Ali. I drink novochok in Molotov smoothie every day for breakfast in Korova milkbar, I give insurance for correct outcome.”