Beloved friends at Sannyas News
Firstly, I would like to express my regrets for not seeing the comments with regards to my open letter about Osho’s death (Osho’s Death: An Open Letter from Ageh Bharti) that you posted on June 13, 2017 until now because of my multiple engagements. When I saw the postings today, I was a bit horrified. However, I decided to respond to the comments of friends with details of interest.
I do not take Shantam Prem seriously because I don’t consider him more than a journalist who pretends to know all though knows nothing. He says, my relationship with Osho is like one of Indian women who stick to one husband all their lives. No, I am a lover of beauty – it may be a beautiful poem, a song, a dance, a well-worded sentence, a beautiful face. And what to say of enlightened Masters! Really, words fail! But I am not at all confined to Osho, the person Shantam knows. And what can he know about me by visiting my residence at Satna for few hours or a day or two?
Then he wonders if I have read, “Who killed Osho?” written by one of the finest unbiased journalists? No, neither have I read it nor do I feel like reading. What a journalist can write about the death of a Master! Being unbiased is not enough to know about the death of Osho. It needs certain insight. No doubt Shantam knows English enough to teach me.
Other friends have raised many questions. I will try to respond in brief in this article. First my biography, asked by some friends.
I passed my high school (10th class) in 1953 from a small town in Pratapgarh district of U.P.,India. The economic condition of the family was not satisfactory so I had to give up my studies and look for a job. Found a job at Indian Railways and after 10 weeks’ training, I was posted at Jabalpur where I arrived on 26th Jan 1955. I was initially a worshiper of Krishna who was very happy with me. Within a minute or two his picture won’t remain a picture. It would become alive and his lips smiled so beautifully. And my worship would complete here. But that got dropped in 1960 because I thought I must know the Truth myself. Thus I became a seeker of Truth/God from 1960 onwards. During that search, I met several Gurus but after one or two meetings, I used to realize that I was better off being alone.They appeared to be just mediocre, couldn’t be my guide on the path. My aloneness was too profound. Even in a crowd, I felt to be alone. I started writing poems in 1964 and read Kahlil Gibran in 1965. Felt his presence with me all the time. I had accepted him to be my Master though he had already died.
In July 1964, I attended a condolence meeting of a VIP’s son who had died at age 41. I saw Osho there for the first time. Every speaker expressed sorrow at the untimely death. In India, the most respected person of a meeting speaks last. So, Osho spoke as the last one. I remember his first sentence even today. It was enough to give a jerk to awaken but I remained unconcerned as I was fully occupied in those days with poems and search of inner psychology of womankind and ultimate Truth as well.
He said, “Dear ones, no death is untimely….”
I was fond of reading good books. On 2nd Oct 1966, I saw a book by name ‘naye manushya ke janm ki Disha’ means ‘Way to the birth of New Man.’ Very title attracted me. I opened one page and read one sentence. Aha! I felt too good. I asked the shopkeeper if he had more books of this author? He showed two more books, one, ‘Singhnaad’ means ‘Lion’s roar’ and ‘Ahinsa Darshan’ means ‘philosphy of Non-violence.’ I enjoyed reading these books so much that I finished all the three in one sitting. And kept them in my peronal library and forgot.
Then sometime in November or December 1966 something happened that changed the whole course of my life. I realized to be enlightened. I was living all the virtues of an enlightened one e.g. I was deathless. Living only in the present. Awareness was all the time. No attachment with any thing or any person. I felt so much energy that if I wished, whole earth would come into my fist and as I wished it would get crushed into.pieces on its own. But what a wonder, no desire, no wanting. Aware even during sleep. All that I saw, heard, and the unseen, unheard, the entire existence was nothing but God. For me death disappeared, fear disappeared, the greed, the lust, the anger, the ‘I’ disappeared. There was no difference in men and women. I was all. Love became the state of my being. Even if a snake appeared to be coming towards me, I would not like to disappoint it. I was no longer a doer. I was only a watcher.
I was a locomotive pilot in those days but I no longer felt that I was driving. I was only a witness. I was really the God. Everyone was a God but asleep. One day, everyone is bound to realize his/her Godhood. Even a small particle in the street is on the same journey. One day it too will realise to be God. Bliss became my state of being. Enjoyed everything. In February 1967 I felt that someone else too should say this.
It was at that time that I went to see Osho in the first week of February. It was 12.30 pm. He was asleep. I took the mailing address from Prof Arvind Kumar, the then secretary to Osho, and went home
On reaching back home, I wrote a letter to Osho:
Respected Acharya Shri,
I had come to see you today but I learnt that you were asleep. Through the work that God is actualising through you, the body may be getting tired. Therefore, if something has to be done, rest is an absolute necessity. So l did not feel any discomfort in returning without seeing you. However, I will be coming to see you until I can see you at least once. And I feel if I want I can see you right now, here, at my residence. ( My intention to write so, was the same that if earth could come in my fist why a man of six feet can not come.) But what a wonder! No desire is left. You will say this boy is talking contradictory things. Once he says he wants to meet, and if he never meets he will not feel bad either. But it is so.
Rest until we meet.
With regards
Shiva Pratap
After posting the above letter, I took a break and then went on my railway trip to Itarsi. Took a break and returned with another train. Rested. And then I went to see Osho on 10th February 1967 at about 06.20 pm. Arvind ji told me that Osho was taking a rest and that I could come to Shahid Smarak Bhavan on Sunday to attend the meeting. I said, “I am not interested in a meeting. Does he ever meet one to one with anybody?’ Arvind ji said, ‘Yes, then you may come on Sunday at 2 pm.” I told him that I was a locomotive pilot and where I will be on Sunday I don’t know myself. Then he asked, “Do you have time today?” I chuckled and said, “Well, I have time today, that’s why I have come.” He said, “Ok, then come at 8 o’clock and see him for 10 minutes.” I said, “Ok,” and went out and spent about one hour and 39 minutes dancing on the road. It was an elite area. Couples would pass, looking at me with strange eyes. I enjoyed walking there. Exactly at 7.59 pm I rang up the call bell. Arvind ji came and took me to Osho’s study and asked me to take a seat and He would come in a minute or two. After two minutes Osho arrived walking in his most magnificent style as if he was walking on rose petals.
We exchanged our pranamsto each other. We took a seat on a wooden cot which had a mattress and achadar over it and two cushions. There were also some books kept. He told that he was to reply to my letter in a day or two. I said smilingly, “I have come now myself.” in my very first meeting I addressed him as Bhagwan and Gurudev.
“Since how long you are in Jabalpur?” He asked.
“Twelve years,” I said.
“Have you attended any meeting ever?”
“No.”
“Have you read any literature?”
“No.” (I had no memory of those books)
Then He asked smilingly, ”What brings you here?”
Since I was allotted ten minutes time, and he had been talking until now, my time was to start at this point and I looked at my wrist watch, so that I could say my thing in 7 to 8 minutes and he too gets two minutes to comment.
Osho said, “Tell me in full detail, do not worry about time.”
Then I narrated in detail in about half an hour as to what happened, then what happened, then what happened. And that “Now I feel I am enlightened. And I think since God has showered this limitless grace on a fool like me, it is for me now to spread his message that love is the only religion. All other religions have no relevance today. So I have a mind to leave the family and spread this message all over. I don’t exactly know why I have come to you before leaving.”
Osho commented so sweet and lovingly. He said, “It is not enlightenment. It is the highest stage of mind which is rare, it is not common. In enlightenment, there is no happiness either. Only an emptiness remains. A great zero. And there remains nobody to remember as to what happened. But it is very rare, not common. Due to some very good deeds of past lives it has happened, otherwise it is rare. The mind is capable to get a glimpse of Truth. And who will leave whom? No need to leave the family. And whenever you feel like coming, doors are open.” Our meeting was over. Very joyously and lovingly I took his leave, offered my pranam to Him and left dancing again. About six kilometres I came to my home dancing, though I had my bicycle with me.
Then I used to go and tell him often what was happening to me. He would lovingly interpret. After a few visits family members noticed that Osho gave me much uplift so they stopped asking why I wanted to meet him. Thus, in Jabalpur, I alone had the privilege to see him without any appointment. Then our meetings developed and he took away two of my works – both were my hobbies – i.e. writing and gossiping. He would ask, ”Is your gossip going on?” I would respond, “Yes!“
He never told me what he meant by gossiping nor did I feel any need to ask. For me there was no other topic than Osho. Answering people’s questions, removing their doubts… Swami Anand Swabhav, who later became Osho’s Ambassador for India, asked me for a one-to-one talk in 1972 at Mount Abu Camp. He had a mind to leave Osho. After I chatted with him for about forty-five minutes, he said, “Now even if the whole world leaves him, I will not leave him.”
In 1969, Osho authorised me to write articles in his name even on topics he hadn’t yet spoken on, and not to delay if some magazine demanded an article on such topic. I had to do that only one time though. Once he sent me a message to write an article on Dadda ji (His father) although people from Gadarwara were staying as inmate in the Ashram who must have known much more about Dadda ji. In fact he liked my write ups so much. One example of May 1989 i.e. only seven months before leaving the body. When something was published in a news paper or a magazine, be it ‘for’ or ‘against’, it were sent to Laotzu House at about 10.30 and all those clippings would come back at about 2 p.m. During the entire Poona days, one and two, only once a slip came attached to it which read :’ Osho had not enjoyed any article for past several days as he enjoyed the article of Swami Ageh bharti published on a news paper. It should be published in Hindi and English Osho Times and ageh bharti to be advised to continue such write ups.’
Lokesh is puzzled as to how does Ageh Bharti deem himself fit to say that Osho is the man of Krishna, Buddha and Mahavir’s stature! My dear Sir, I would like to make it clear in a simple way. Let us suppose that in a village 1000 people live. All of them are blind since birth. One man’s eyes opened as he had been working on it but they closed again after few months. Now he is not the same person like the others. He has seen the green and the red and the moon and stars. He provokes people to work on their eyes with him. Then he hears lectures of a person whose eyes have opened forever so when he talks of the green and red, moon and stars this man whose eyes got closed in a way again, knows by his own insight that he is saying the truth. Believe me, if somebody writes a small letter to me, I know where he stands.
Osho of course knew what I thought at a certain time, even I knew what Osho wanted at a certain time. There are hundreds and hundreds of instances when words for Osho will fall short. Let me say humbly that it is not necessary to be in Pune to know how Osho died. Do you mean, all people living in Pune at the time know how Osho died?
It is not without reason that I was blessed to be with him on several of his tours. Laxmi, Keerti, Neelam, Satya Vedant etc were once upon a time so eager to sit near Ageh Bharti. During my second or third visit with Osho to Ludhiana, Neelam had come to listen to Osho for the first time. She one day requested me to go to her home. It was so difficult to find time because I used to be surrounded with people asking about Osho thousand and one things. But Neelam’s loving insistence made me to go to her home for 30 minutes only. Its not my ego saying so, it is true. It is not without reason Sir, that moon and stars and the sun move at a certain speed on a certain path.
Lokesh seems to be in love with HWL Poonja. It reminded me of my meeting with him in October 1991 in Lucknow. Since it is relevant, I would like to share here.
I reached Lucknow in the afternoon of 23rd October 1991 to be with my friend Swami Rakesh Bharti who did his Ph.D. on Osho. In the evening he asked me, “Would you like to visit Poonja ji tomorrow morning?” I asked him, “Who is Poonja ji?” He said, ” He is working as an enlightened Master.” I said, “I am not interested, dear friend.”
He said, “In the last month I have been to Osho’s Ashram in Poona. Whosoever came to know that I am from Lucknow, became anxious to know about Poonja ji. Is he inside the city or outside of the city? A large number of sannyasins are going there. Is he really enlightened?”
I then said I’d certainly go because poor Neelam will not leave her office and come to Lucknow to check it out. And the next morning we both reached there. It was a small hall, accommodating 40 to 50 friends. There were cushions kept on the ground. At the extreme end was a bench. We both chose to sit on the cushions of the last row. The entire hall filled up. After a while a tall and serene man entered the hall from inside the house. He wore a simple kurta and trousers. I whispered into Rakesh’s ear, “I love this man.” Some people touched his feet, some simply greeted, saying pranam. Some did nothing. He was calm, smiling and serene. Then, after some time he started speaking. After listening to him for five to seven minutes I told Rakesh that according to me he is enlightened. I enjoyed his talk. After about one hour he ended his talk. We came out. There was arrangement of cookies, tea and coffee etc. While leaving the campus I told Rakesh that he is certainly enlightened but I am finished with him.
In the evening, Rakesh asked me if I would like to visit his Osho meditation centre? Some 7-8 friends would gather there for Dynamic Meditation. I consented to go gladly and went there in the morning. Eight friends were there and Rakesh wanted to meditate and I had to give instructions for Dynamic. In the end I went myself so deep that when the meditation was over, I remained in deep silence on my easy chair. I smelled jalebis and samosas. Then after some time it struck me that may be, one or two persons could be waiting for me to come out and then leave. So I took 15 to 20 long breaths to come out of meditation. When I came outside two friends were really waiting to meet me before leaving. I was silent and couldn’t speak. Rakesh asked me to eat sweets and samosas but because of the deep silence I didn’t want to disturb my meditation by moving the mouth.
Then he asked me, “Shall we go to Poonja ji’s meeting?” I gazed into his eyes to remind him what I had said yesterday that I was finished with him. But he could not guess my intention perhaps and asked again. Then I submitted by an affirmative gesture. We reached there quite on time… Poonja ji came shortly after and started to speak. I wrote a question and passed it on. It reached Poonja ji who kept the folded paper beside him until the discourse ended and then went inside the house.
I asked Rakesh to go. He told me that may be, in second session he takes your question. I said it is not much of a question for which we should remain here. Then he told that he runs a Osho meditation centre and here, 100% were Osho people. I said ok I get you now. I talked to many friends to visit the Osho centre some time which is just close by, when they are free and heard later that some people had visited and had enjoyed it. After a 40 or 50 minutes break, we again sat in the assembly. All took their seats. Then Poonja ji came and took his seat; he took the paper bearing my question – if it can be described a question. I had written, “Beloved Poonja ji, I do not know what should I ask you but I would love to hear you say something to me.” It could have taken hardly two seconds to read but he remained looking at the paper for about 2 minutes. Then he looked at the audience and asked, “Who is Swami Bharti?” I raised my right hand a little above my right ear and said, “Sir.” He looked at me too for more than a minute and said,” Please do not activate your mind. You are already in the state of no-mind. Your work is finished and I bow down in front of you!” And he bowed down physically with folded hands in front of all his audience and I too bowed down in the same way simultaneously.
It is not less strange that I was in Lucknow for three days and on none of the days did I want to go to Poonja ji and on all three days I had to go.
On the second day’s evening, Prakash Yatri, an Osho disciple arrived from Kanpur and Dhyan Prem Bharti arrived from Faizabad. Rakesh asked me, “Do you know Prakash Yatri is my long-time friend?” I said, “Yes.” He then said, “He has come to see Poonja ji for the first time.” I said,” No problem, you go with him, I will be here at home.” Dhyan Prem Bharti said, “I too will go to Poonja ji.” I asked him, “Haven’t you been to him before?” He said that he had visited several times but he wanted to go again. I said, “If everyone is going there, then what I will do here alone? I too will join you but then let us go there in the break after taking a good bath and then have a comfortable breakfast.” They gladly agreed to that.
We got ready after shower and breakfast, and very contentedly arrived at Poonja ji’s residence. As we entered the boundary wall, Rakesh pointed to a certain person, telling me that he is Poonja ji’s son. Things happened so spontaneously, unplanned. I went to him and namasted him and asked, “Yesterday I had asked a question and Poonja ji gave a beautiful answer. Can I see him in person right now?” He said, “I will ask and let you know.” He went inside and returned saying, “Yes, you may go in.” I used to tell Rakesh that Poonja ji is pure love. He misses the fiery flavour. Here it happened that I proceeded to meet Poonja ji in person in his room and three of my friends followed me. I namasted Poonja ji who was very, very humble. As the fourth person was to enter, Poonja ji said to a volunteer standing close-by in a sharp tone and raising one hand, “Stop now.” Here I saw his fiery flavor too. And the fourth person could not enter. And the beauty is that he was not with me. And those three with me had entered. All this happened in a blink of eyes. And lo, Poonja ji says, “Come Bharti, come.” He made a gesture to sit near him and I sat down close him on the same bed. My friends touched his feet and sat on the carpet on the ground. I told Poonja ji that both my feet keep burning and I had to wrap wet cloth around them and only then could I sleep.”
Poonja ji answered so simply that as far as he had seen the scriptures, only Kabir’s legs were burning like this. He further said, “Nothing to worry about. Let it be burnt completely.” Ok. Then I reminded him that perhaps break time is over. He smilingly said, “Yes,” and we took leave and came out. We entered the hall and took our seats as Poonja ji entered from the inside. In the second session, he read letters that were for him and chatted lightly. After the second session we dispersed, talking only about Poonja ji.
Ageh Bharti
*******
Mama Mia!
Mother Mary…
It is tradition in India not to argue with the elders, I stay with that.
Moreover, it is senseless to create heroes when old heroes have already shown their feet of clay.
Because it is a matter of concerning our master´s work, so elderly respect aside, I want to know from esteemed Swami ji, what was the property called during Osho´s lifetime?
A..Shree Rajneesh Ashram
B. Osho Commune International
C. Osho International Meditation Resort
And how long this name continued?
A. 20th January 1990
B. 19 january 1997 (Great changes happen every seven years!)
C. Somewhere in 2002
The name change was necessary
A. It is Osho guideline in 1974 book
B. Guideline given during last moments
C. Whimsical decision by Chairman of the Trust
Chairman of Osho Foundation International is
A. A chosen Successor by the master
B. Chairman is like infallible Pope
C. Chairman can commit grave mistakes.
Hang on a minute.
Ageh Bharti starts this letter:
“Firstly, I would like to express my regrets for not seeing the comments with regards to my open letter about Osho’s death (‘Osho’s Death: An Open Letter from Ageh Bharti’) that you posted on June 13, 2017 until now because of my multiple engagements.”
Yet, if you look at the thread in point, there is quite a lengthy reply from him on 17th June, where he states:
“I read your comments carefully and conclude that your opinions are nothing but speculations.”
Is there some misunderstanding?
Not same author or something?
Mind you, then he says: “I do not take what Shantam says seriously”,
which, to be fair, is a definite step on the path to enlightenment!
My feet and legs used to burn and it was difficult to me to sleep at night. I thought I was enlightened, better saying, I was quite sure I was enlightened!
Before I announced to the world, I went to see the doctor and he said that it was common to people on statins to feel this kind of side-effect. So, he changed the meds and I was not enlightened anymore. Not even a hot baby!
I have never been into Poonja ji, I have never met the guy, so I can’t say anything about him. But I am a hardcore Oshoite, and my god, he was something! Sometimes I think Anand Yogi is Osho’s son!
Cheers!
I know what you mean, Tan. When I first went to India, my arse used to burn all the time, especially in the morning.
It`s very common over there. I guess that`s why they produce so many enlightened people.
LOL
Spicy food has its own effects so does the working in train’s engines …some people see it as something spiritual…especially most Indians almost always seem to look for some spiritual answers. There is no logic…always a mystery??
I enjoyed Bharti’s letter, and I am sure I would enjoy to meet him. Currently on the road, so when I get a chance will respond more fully.
Sorry to say, I am not experiencing any burning sensations whatsoever. Maybe it’s time to get out the Rampy Powder. A secret potion, handed down from generation to generation in Clan MacLoko, that makes certain parts of the male and female anatomy burn with desire. Aieeeeeeeeee!
(Attached a photo of a chronic Rampy Powder abuser).
If the court decides the dismissal of the people in charge, there will remain the question of who will replace them.
Then, if there are any candidates and with what requirements?
If they will be democratically elected and on how broad suffrage.
If the former banned people will become the new banners.
What to do with those who enthusiastically give satsang without being enlightened?
Or vice versa, what to do with those who are enlightened but too lazy to give satsang?
I hope that years of legal battles have not dried up the energies needed to rebuild a climate of trust around Koregaon Park.
It would be nice that before the Court’s judgment a bloody collective laughter would bury years of suspicion and paranoia.
And if someone took the money I would like him to find the courage to apologize, trusting (and challenging) in the compassion that Osho has left in all of us.
Ciao,
VF
This is a nice innocent comment from uncorrupted heart. It shows you were not sitting closer to Osho!
If I were Lokesh I would be offended.
Lokesh is not innocent but wise. He is down-to-earth and not theoretical idealist like you because of books impact.
Those who read and listen to Osho get a gassy view, it is so easy to change oneself and the world.
So should I trust him when he treats you like a ulloo?
MOD:
ulloo ka patha:
Used as a derogatory term in the Indopak Subcontinent, which literally means, Son of an Owl.
Now you are coming to your skin-deep reality.
Give little bit of energy to donkey and he starts thinking, “I am now racecourse horse.”
P.S:
Sw. Veet (Francesco), is your Italian name another pseudo-name? To me, your English was always creating a doubt. I think you are an Indian pretending to be a Mediterranean.
I learned it (ullo) from my dear friend of Pune, attracted by Osho from north of India.
Your “donkey” is not enough to make me suspect you are Italian. While “innocent” remains a compliment both in India and in Italy, and you mistakenly opposed it to “wise” rather than to “naive”, if you do not mean to define Lokesh as “mischievous”.
If I had been closer to Osho I would have asked “what?” every time he used “jealous” instead of “envious”.
MOD:
POST EDITED.
I am 100% sure Oshonourable created His commune style not just for those who were present but generations of seekers like you who will get hooked through the sheer power of His words.
I hope on earth, day commune is revived and we meet person to person, few experiences can be transmitted only through trustful hugs.
Perhaps Swamis Trump and Kim Jong-un could be persuaded to join SN as a good forum to exchange abuse and insults.
Kim: “Swami Aggrieved: you’re a ‘dotard’.”
Trump: “Swami Always Whining: I am 100% sure you will never, never, never ever, take control of the Resort. LOSER!”
Interesting letter, Ageh Bharti. Thanks.
Just one question:
Are you enlightened nowor are you still in this state when you met Osho
50 years ago on 10th February 1967?
If you read the letter here posted again, Satchit, you could (as one option) end up with lines like what came up from Frank the day before yesterday:
“Is there some misunderstanding?
Not same author or something?”
Or with some painstaking, rather awkward feeling – not unlike what happened to me – dealing with the feeling of what someone (or something?) might be up to by seeking a certain kind of approval from others (like contributors of a quite anonymous SN/UK chat) about a state of being one claims to be at.
Anyway – in spite of some other, more or less hidden, strings in the midst of this string, with some very busy with investigating other stuff included (like euthanasia or questions of judicial prominence), it seems to be quite an Indian chat corner just now, waiting for whatever is waiting to be happening.
With or without astrological bystanders.
Wish you well, Ageh Bharti, and I´d like to say to you:
Better stay to your own dignity in your heart, and there is no need, really, to get approval by some on-line spiritual politicians in whatsoever corners of this very confused world.
Madhu
“Wish you well, Ageh Bharti, and I´d like to say to you:
Better stay to your own dignity in your heart, and there is no need, really, to get approval by some on-line spiritual politicians in whatsoever corners of this very confused world.”
Hi Madhu,
I don’t think he did write this letter to get our approval. He wanted the approval of Osho, 50 years ago for his enlightenment, but not now from us.
Hi Satchit,
No need, I`d say – and no use at all – that we, the two of us (as well as others?) take a guess on what Ageh Bharti felt some 50 years ago when he by his own report got a friendly and quite precise feedback from Osho.
I responded to my best capacity here, and out of intuition, reading the chat-correspondence @now-here; just wanted to say that him Ageh Bharti himself is the answer to his quest and nobody else.
Otherwise, for me, this whole ´racing towards an enlightenment (certification) has had often something very sick about it and in all these decades of Sannyas amongst fellow-travellers has been almost always a very male chat-domain.
We are very blessed though, I´d say, with and by the innumerable sharings of Masterly Consciousness, we have been or are able to receive, and the question may be rather one about whether we are able to embody that in a way that serves others, as well as ourselves.
Life´s a great Teacher; Moment to Moment.
Madhu
“”Beloved Osho,
I am Aware of my need for Approval and Acceptance from others. I don’t want to be driven by this need. How does it resolve?”
Osho:
“One has to see the foolishness of it. It is not a question of resolving it. One has to see the ridiculousness of it, then it falls. It is not resolved. Diseases are not to be resolved; they fall away. Just try to see the foolishness of it.
I will tell you a few anecdotes. A woman, newly arrived to live in a spacious mansion, met the woman she knew lived in a cottage at the edge of her estate.
“Welcome to our little community,” greeted the cottage dweller.
The new resident, drawing herself up haughtily, replied, “Please do not address me. I never speak to an inferior.” “Oh,” replied the cottage dweller sweetly, “and where in the world did you ever meet one?”
Everybody is an egoist. It is difficult to see that you are in the same boat. You can see all others in the same boat. Just see it — that everybody in deep ignorance remains an egoist, goes on thinking in terms of the ego. Nobody is there in the world to fulfil your ego; everybody is trying to fulfil his own. Who has time to fulfil your ego? And if sometimes somebody fulfils your ego, he must be fulfilling it as a means to fulfil his own.
Basically, everybody is interested in himself. As you are interested in yourself, others are interested in themselves. Just become aware of this.”
Osho Book, ‘The Search’
MOD:
IS THAT THE RIGHT TITLE, Arpana?
Is there any other way, Arpana? What is is, what isn’t isn’t.
“I searched for God and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only God.” (Rumi)
Kusum,
I accept you are trying to communicate, but when you just come out with these rather knowing, short, sharp phrases, it has the opposite effect.
Even Rumi didn’t speak in short, sharp, knowing phrases. Those were the parts that were recorded, and you are not Rumi.
Arpana, something I can express with couple of sentences why should I write whole essay & do unnecessary gibberish about it? You quote Osho occasionally & you are not Osho…or are you??
That’s a secondary source.
Primary source is:
Osho
Beyond Psychology
Chapter #32
Chapter title: Life consists of small things
28 April 1986 am in Uruguay
I am currently reading a book by Jack Kornfield, ‘After Enlightenment, The Laundry’. It uses the Ten Bulls of Zen to give a framework describing the journey to awakening. There are numerous testimonials from various meditators describing their experiences prior to awakening. Bharti’s description of his awakening might fit in there, at a tight squeeze, Osho’s definitely would, in spades.
Bharti says, “Lokesh seems to be in love with HWL Poonja.” Nothing is what it seems and I certainly would not describe myself as being in love with HWL Poonja. Neither would I describe myself as being an “Osho Lover”. What I do love about Osho and Poonjaji is that I see them as representatives of something I have loved since my late teens. What is that something? You can call it by various names, love, beauty, spirituality,consciousness, freedom, light etc. but none of those names really capture it. Nonetheless, I am quite sure that you know what I mean.
Poonjaji says to Bharti, “Please do not activate your mind. You are already in the state of no-mind. Your work is finished and I bow down in front of you!” And he bowed down physically with folded hands in front of all his audience and I too bowed down in the same way simultaneously.”
Now, had Osho said and done that to Bharti I would have raised an eyebrow and sat up straight; coming from Poonjaji I take it with a pinch of salt, or curry powder as an alternative. The reason for this is twofold. Poonjaji was very human. He tended to declare people enlightened because he saw that doing that made them very happy and he enjoyed to make people happy. He declared my wife to be a Buddha and my closest male friend enlightened. They were, at the time, overjoyed to hear such good news, and I daresay believed it up to a certain extent. Today, back at the laundry, they laugh about it.
Reading what Bharti writes I suspect he is in the same situation, but perhaps not at the point of seeing how ridiculous it all is, which is not to say that awakenings do not happen. They do. And, really, what the fuck do I know?
They other day, I was talking to my enlightened Poonjaji friend and we were cracking up when he described how Poonjaji told all those people that they were enlightened and they started running around the world giving satsangs.
Later, Poonjaji retracted his declarations of enlightenment for the eager beavers and said he only did it to get the leeches off his back. When asked what would happen to those people he said, “They will roast in Hell.” When asked what would happen to superstar burning bright, Gangaji, he replied, “She will roast in Hell too.” That is so crazy you have to laugh.
Now Bharti wants to say that Poonjai recognized his enlightenment {not my favourite word}. Bully for Bharti, and good luck to him.
The other reason, speculating here, Poonjaji might have declared people enlightened, was that he saw them as such, because of his state. I do not know if Poonjaji or Osho were awakened Buddhas. I guess maybe some of the time.
Apparently, truly awakened people think you are a fucking nuisance with all of your questions and pompous ideas about yourself. And if they had a desire left to wish it would be “I wish you would get out of your own way, silly little thing that you are.”
Poonjaji did not declare me enlightened. Nobody would have believed it! As it happened, the old boy took me quite seriously, in spite of my daft attempts at humour.
Basically, he told me to behave myself, and I know why. He also gave me some pretty solid advice, Osho did also, and for the most part I still hold that advice close to my heart today.
Even as rough a diamond as my self could not help but be affected by the buzz in Lucknow. I left after six weeks with no feeling that I need return there and with a deep understanding that you do not need to sweat the big stuff. Everything was perfect. Today, well, everyday life is the path and I have a washing machine.
I found Poonjaji to be a great liberating force in my life. The man wanted people to be free, a freedom that included being free of him. During the seven years I spent around Osho, if I went off to Goa or some place, I always carried the feeling that I was missing something by not being close to Osho. Love is the drug and I want to score type scenario. I did not have Poonjaji withdrawal symptons. With Osho I definitely did.
A lot of water and bubbles have passed under the bridge since then. Oh, I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.
Nothing you’ve ever written here before has ever said so much to me as “and I have a washing machine.” Yes, liberating indeed.
Reminds me of Osho declaring the enlightenment of 21 guys in Rajneeshpuram and later saying that it was all a joke. Feels Ageh Bharti still did not get the joke.
A bunch of adults getting excited about a guy called ‘Papa’ who says one minute they`re enlightened, the next they will burn in hell. A bit infantile, to say the least.
And Papaji “got the leeches off his back” and then they ended up, Andrew Cohen et al, on the backs of thousands more westerners. Typical Indian, throwing his rubbish in the street and not thinking about who will clear it up!
I suppose Papaji provided a kind of halfway house for satsang junkies whose dealer had recently passed on back in early 90s, except most of them are still shooting up!
I don`t find a paternalistic old guy declaring people enlightened etc. a particularly good joke. Thank bog I`ve still got an ego and I can say that I prefer my own!!
And what a magnificent ego it is, Frank. Who wouldn’t be proud of an ego like that. YAY!!!
“I don`t find a paternalistic old guy declaring people enlightened etc a particularly good joke.
Thank bog I`ve still got an ego and I can say that I prefer my own!!”
Frank, the joke is nobody can declare your enlightenment, “paternalistic” or not!
You are a black box. If you want to declare your enlightenment you only can do it by yourself.
Or if you have something better to do, do this that you enjoy more.
You’re declaring yourself enlightened again, Satchit, or am I misreading this?
Arpana, declaring oneself enlightened has only meaning if one is looking for disciples. Why do you think Bharti is so talkative in his letter?
Basically, I think self-actualization is a better term than enlightenment, at least for the West. Enlightenment is a concept of the Dark Ages.
You may have the experience to back up what you’ve said, but you sound as though you’re just repeating something you’ve heard.
Then it’s only the question if you doubt your ears or not
@satchit 23 September, 2017 at 12:58.
Having the last word won’t alter the fact that you often – not always, but often – sound as if you are repeating something you have heard and not experienced.
You say, Satchit:
“declaring oneself enlightened has only meaning if one is looking for disciples.”
That´s rubbish in both aspects of the view in my eyes; one is the self-appointed (or not-self appointed)´declaration´, which is obsolete, more so, as maturing is an alive process with an open ending, often accompanied by lots of shocks, which have to be integrated (or not).
Being eagerly greedy for disciples inherits quite very often the clear indication that megalomania may be at work and some more or less unconscious wishes to subdue others; the danger to go astray in a fatal cul de sac; the danger to get lost in some issues of power and/or misuse of power.
You also say, Satchit: “Enlightenment is a concept of the Dark Ages.”
I wouldn´t say that, Satchit.
The Age we are living in is dark enough and if you scroll about ´History of Mankind´ you find more of enough examples of premium high developed cultures of mankind which have been destroyed by megalomania or simply catastrophes of Nature, often self-inflicted as also wars, etc. etc…
Just hear some of the utter crackpots nowadays these very days playing around with the atomic warcraft as with other obnoxious warcraft skills, indicating a very Dark Age, doesn´t it?
Precarious Times.
Times where it could be well worth it to truly remember how ancient folks and their Leaders lost their mind AND their Souls and their highly civilised culture by putting it deliberately at stake.
Madhu
The only one “roasting in hell” is this Papaji, if what Lokesh says is accurate.
This is unbelievable! What an old, disgusting perv was this guy!
Tan, do not kid yourself. Had you met Poonjaji you would have enjoyed it to the max.
Osho said to Sheela you will either go insane or commit suicide. I suppose you think that was justifiable, or not?
Easy to judge, especially from a distance.
Lokesh,
You do plenty of judging about Oregon, from the plain clothes safety of Ibiza. That’s a “distance”, is it not?
Arpana, as I write, a herd of red deer are gathering in the valley below the bothy I am staying in up in the Cairngorm Mountains of Scotland. Sun is shrouded in cloud and, apart from the old stone dwelling behind me, there is very little to indicate that man ever walked the Earth.
As the mushroom intelligence communicated to Terence McKenna, things were going fine on this planet before the monkeys got out of control.
ROTFLMAO
LOL, Lokesh!
Didn’t you like when I called Poonjaji a perv?
Anyway, I don’t believe what you said but what you wrote was more interesting than what Bharti said.
You did it again! XXX
Your irreverent comment about Papaji did not even raise an eyebrow, Tan. Fairly typical of you and the old school sannyas approach of fuck you, here I am, and I am in your face, so there. Or something like that.
That sort of thing is okay up to a point. I can relate to it and am guilty as charged of such behaviour myself, from time to time, that is. Reminds me of when I did an Aum Marathon in ’77. For weeks after that I would answer my London squat’s front door with a friendly, “What the fuck do you want? You’re full of shit!”
I must have appeared like a real asshole to most, but it felt good to give expression to that kind of negativity. I do not know if such antics do much good in the long run. Today, I tend to go about more quietly and only smash windows and steal old ladies’ handbags when I am out with my younger friends.
@ Tan.
I have been searching for the following story for such a long time…
An ancient Tibetan proverb says: One hundred seekers start; ninety-nine are lost somewhere on the way, go astray. Only one – that too, very rarely – reaches the goal of his search. With this proverb is attached a small story….
https://justpaste.it/Tibetanproverb
Many thanks, Arps! So beautiful!
XXX
Swami Ageh Bharti has so many credentials, he has the credit to know Osho from the days when Dr. Amrito or chairman Jayesh were in college, not even aware someone like Bhagwan exist.
People came, people went, Swami Ji remained with Osho and His unwavered.
Wow!
I just want to know if he has this much goodwill among both the conflicting parties to bring them on the table for out of the court settlement?
Swami Ageh Bharti ji, here is the request from journalist disciple, please use your wisdom, your reputation, your Awareness to bring Chairman Jayesh and Anand Tathagat or Anand Arun on the same discussion table.
These three gentlemen, your fellow-disciples, can decide themselves whether discussion will be done ‘in camera’ or video recording can take place.
“Neither would I describe myself as being an “Osho Lover”. What I do love about Osho and Poonjaji is that I see them as representatives of something I have loved since my late teens. What is that something? You can call it by various names, love, beauty, spirituality,consciousness, freedom, light etc. but none of those names really capture it. Nonetheless, I am quite sure that you know what I mean”
Lokesh, let me try to see if I understand what you mean.
If you are a love lover, a beauty lover, a spiritual lover, a lover of consciousness, a freedom lover, an et cetera lover, but not an Osho lover, even if you recognize all of these qualities in him, then maybe you are a lover of verbose descriptions about yourself done by yourself, or a hater of the synthetic descriptions made by others, especially those made by Bharthi, if you are not just a Bharthi hater.
“Poonjaji was very human. He tended to declare people enlightened because he saw that doing that made them very happy and he enjoyed to make people happy”
I thought that there was no irony here, before reading this:
“Apparently, truly awakened people think you are a fucking nuisance with all of your questions and pompous ideas about yourself. And if they had a desire left to wish, it would be “I wish you would get out of your own way, silly little thing that you are”
And this:
“Later, Poonjaji retracted his declarations of enlightenment for the eager beavers and said he only did it to get the leeches off his back. When asked what would happen to those people he said, “They will roast in Hell.” When asked what would happen to superstar burning bright, Gangaji, he replied, “She will roast in Hell too.” That is so crazy you have to laugh”.
Ok, ah ah ah.
“He declared my wife to be a Buddha and my closest male friend enlightened. They were, at the time, overjoyed to hear such good news, and I daresay believed it up to a certain extent. Today, back at the laundry, they laugh about it.
Reading what Bharti writes I suspect he is in the same situation, but perhaps not at the point of seeing how ridiculous it all is, which is not to say that awakenings do not happen. They do. And, really, what the fuck do I know?”
Really? Though you just said you know the awakening happens, that in the past your friends to some extent have been deceived feeling to be awakened, and that others, those whom I suspect to not be your friends, lacking the measure of the sense of ridicule, continue to perceive themselves as such?
Well, Veet, I got your motor running, which, I believe, is the main idea behind SN.
When I write a comment like the above, I take my time about it. Once I fire it off I am pretty much done with it. You can make what you want of what I say, dissect, analyse, and draw your own conclusions. What might appear how it is right now might not appear so at another point in time. The only constant in life is change.
I enjoy SN, but it is rare for me to feel I need to argue my point, because nothing I write on SN is that important. True to the spirit of sannyas I do not take any of this seriously. Getting serious is often an indication that your ego is coming to the fore. Osho was spot on with that observation.
Just for the record, I said that I “suspect” Bharti might be in the same situation. I am speculating. I do not know how it is for Bharti. He could be the up and coming Avatar for a new age of awakening on Planet Plongo for all I know.
Sorry, Lokesh, I thought you were serious when you wrote that you did not mind what I wrote.
I like to read what you and the other Osho lovers write here, and when I do not understand, I end up with a question mark.
I recognize the sarcasm in my last question, and the reason can be read in the first line of this comment.
Maybe for a writer like you it is harder to catch the relationship between writer and reader, not taking both roles seriously, or rather, with the playfulness of exchanging them.
Good post, Veet. I enjoyed it.
Come on, Frank, lighten up. Osho also did the “you are enlightened” number, it’s always good for a laugh.
The most memorable victim of this cosmic malarkey in Poona One, at least in my book, was Swami Ram. There we were, sitting around Ram in Mobo’s Hotel, feeling those good old enlightenment vibes. Then it all turned out to be Osho fooling around.
I’m no satsang junkie, and it took some persuading on my wife’s part to get me to Lucknow. I am really glad I went. It was, amongst other things, a lot of fun. That is one thing Papaji shared in common with Osho, they liked to joke.
Sannyasins go on about non-seriousness, but often enough, just below the surface, they are as serious as the next man or woman. They can be dead fucking serious about themselves. Look at the shite that goes on on SN, a great reflection of our dysfunctional alternative society. Hilarious at times. Especially when Yogi blows into town.
Personally, I do not give a flying fuck about enlightenment, although I know it happens. It’s just something your mind cannot grasp. Osho pulled the carpet out from under many people’s feet on that one. Wasn’t he the one who said, “I am going to blow all your concepts out the water in regards how you think an enlightened man should act”, or something like that?
Nowadays, successful Indian gurus don´t need western recognition, neither their money. Indians have enough black money to turn white at the feet of their gurus.
Because there is almost negligible western interest, so one does not listen anything about sex, Tantra and about EnLidlment. Indians by nature are happy to adore guruji and feeling of insurance, Sugar Daddy will fix Godly system for them.
In a way, thanks to sannyasins, words like Enlightenment, Love, Leaving the body have become very cheap and superficial.
I am quite astonished to see how sannyas intelligence at sannyasnews is stuck with the concept of enlightenment.
One reason is most of the bloggers are from Pune 1 phase or elites of Rajneeshpuram where the locket of the guru was in oval shape. If one listens to the talks during last phase of Osho´s life, at a certain time he went beyond enlightenment.
As per my understanding, He is heard explaining, Enlightenment too is a purified ego; when you go beyond you are simply ordinary like everyone else.
It seems to be like burning prize-winning Lotto ticket consciously.
Surely elephants have the guts to understand their morality but not the flies sitting on their back! Proving oneself closer to guru is childish, though it was quite something few dozen centuries ago.
Depends how you understand that declaration of Osho’s, Shantam. If you think him accepting his ‘ordinariness’ gives carte blanche for you to sit back and just ‘be yourself’, problematic, conflicted and confused as that ‘self’ clearly is, then you’d be making quite an error, wouldn’t you?
SD, fInd some university in England famous for doing research on human brain and it’s spiritual inclination. We both can go together for complete evolution. We will also have much to talk over cups of tea.
Have you guts or you want to live and die in your glass castle? How I can ever answer someone who has not written a single sentence of his own?
Shantam, you’re just avoiding having to answer my point(s). A strategy you’ve tried often enough before, of course.
One can always discern when you’re unsettled by a comment as you try to pull tricks like this one, knowing I’m not interested but thinking that by refusing such a suggestion that I will appear ‘the lesser man’ than you.
As for not having “written a single sentence” of my own, well, that’s another of your self-made fabrications, in order to rationalise your resistance to dealing with the actual issues under discussion. Transparent you are, sir!
Now, how about actually answering my last few posts? Is there any truth in them?
Stranger to another stranger, “Can you tell me, please, how far is railway station?”
“I think 500 metres from here. You go straight and turn left.”
“You are wrong, sir, It´s 475 metres.”
Who wants to answer those who already know the answer?
SD, I am not your client. If you want to talk as friends, then answer few of my questions first. For example, how old are you? What is your sun and moon sign and ascendant etc?
Yet another typical example from the self-help manual for amateur politicians-with-grandiose-pretensions, ‘Psychic Self-Defence’, by Swami Shantam Prem: Chapter 1: ‘How To Spot Difficult, Dangerous Questions – And Wriggle Your Way Out Of Answering Or Even Looking Further Into Them!’
Btw, neither am I your “client”. So you know where you can shove your
specious astrology!
LOL