No Need to have anything, just relax into whatever situation occurs around you

Osho speaks on acceptance and gives the Buddhist nun Rengetsu as a good example

The first thing is to accept life as it is. Accepting it, desires disappear; accepting it as it is, tensions disappear, discontent disappears; accepting it as it is, one starts feeling very joyful and for no reason at all. When joy has a reason, it is not going to last long. When joy is without any reason, it is going to be there forever.

There are two ways a man can be. A man can either move towards having more things – then he goes against Buddha, against Tao, against Zen. The man who is too much concerned with having more is the worldly man.

And the man who says whatsoever is, is good; who relaxes; who is not worried about having more money, more power, more prestige, more respectability; who relaxes into tathata, suchness, isness – he becomes a religious person. He starts moving in.

If you are thinking to have more, you will move out. When you are concerned with having, you will be moving out; when you are no more concerned with having, you will move in towards being. And being is Buddha.

It happened in the life of a very famous Zen woman, her name was Rengetsu. Very few women have attained to the Zen ultimate. This one is one of those rare women.


She was on a pilgrimage and she came to a village at sunset and begged for lodging for the night, but the villagers slammed their doors. They were against Zen. Zen is so revolutionary, so utterly rebellious that it is very difficult to accept it. By accepting it you are going to be transformed; by accepting it you will be passing through a fire, you will never be the same again.

So traditional people have always been against all that is true in religion. Tradition is all that is untrue in religion. So those must have been traditional Buddhists in the town, and they didn’t allow this woman to stay in the town; they threw her out. It was a cold night and the old woman with no lodging… and hungry. She had to make a cherry tree in the fields her shelter. It was really cold and she could not sleep well. And it was dangerous too – wild animals and all.

At midnight she awoke – because of too much cold – and saw, as it were, in the spring night sky, the fully-opened cherry blossoms laughing to the misty moon. Overcome with the beauty, she got up and made a reverence in the direction of the village….

This is what tathata is.

Overcome with the beauty, she got up and made a reverence in the direction of the village:

Through their kindness in refusing me lodging
I found myself beneath the blossoms
on the night of this misty moon.

She feels grateful. With great gratitude she thanks those people who refused her lodging; otherwise she would be sleeping under an ordinary roof and she would have missed this blessing – these cherry blossoms and this whispering with the misty moon and this silence of the night, this utter silence of the night.

She is not angry, she accepts it. Not only accepts it, welcomes it – she feels grateful.

A man becomes a Buddha the moment he accepts all that life brings with gratitude. He is on the Way, he is on Tao; and he is becoming meditative.

Osho quote from
Zen: The Path of Paradox, Vol. 3, Ch 5

otagaki-rengetsu-portrait-s Ōtagaki Rengetsu (1791 – 1875) was a Buddhist nun who is widely regarded to have been one of the greatest Japanese poets of the 19th century. She was also a skilled potter and painter and expert calligrapher. She lived and died in Kyoto. 


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61 Responses to TATHATA

  1. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    Even saying “Thanks” is interfering with the beauty of this night in the words of Osho.
    But if the comments are still open perhaps it is because the “Namaste” one may not notice it.



  2. frank says:

    Move in tathata
    Whatever happens in life
    No fuss – just say “Ta”

    Haiku from Oxford Book of English Mystical Verse (Ed. DHS Nicholson)

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Maybe due to Japanese Meera´s passing just a few days ago, Frank, that I feel your kind of ´Oxford´ verses especially rude and gross.

      And maybe due to the gratefulness for Meera´s cherry blossom flowering and wisdom in it, that I am not able to let your gross stance through and forget all about it like I do at other times.

      It´s so strange, isn´t it, that on this SN website quite often beauty is fucked up so often – as if most of the guys would not be able to appreciate such.

      Neither in a Presence sense nor in that kind of past but living sense how it is indicated by the thread topic.

      Meera left us all so much beauty and it´s very worth while to get acquainted with it, if you did miss so far…up to now.


  3. shantam prem says:

    What a paradox those who think religoons are useless get their mental nourishment from Buddhist monks and nuns.

    religoons – NOW THERE’S AN INTERESTING TERM, Shantam!

  4. Lokesh says:

    I learned a great lesson about acceptance in 1981.

    I had just spent 7 years in Poona and returned to Scotland. I was dying. I had tuberculosis of the bone. The nasty little tubercoli had eaten through some of my lumbar vertebrae and as a result I was paralysed from the waist down. I did not look like I had just got out of Belsen. I looked like I was in Belsen. I was to spend 4 months on the critical list and my daily shot of morphine just about managed to make the pain in my ruined body almost bearable, but not quite.

    Then, one gloomy morning, I met C. C. Smith, the brilliant doctor who would save my life and return me to full health, a process that took two very long years. I was lying flat on my back when CC entered my room, accompanied by a platoon of what is best described as disciples. CC looked up from a clipboard and said in a tenor voice full of life, “And how are you today, laddie?”

    I replied in almost a whisper, “I am accepting my fate.”

    CC glared at me and said, “Listen up, my lad. Don’t give me that accepting your fate line. I have made it my mission in life to manipulate fate as much as I possibly can. I am going to try to save your life, but you will have to help me by fighting against this horrible disease that is eating into your body.” He tilted his big head. “So don’t lie there like a sack of potatoes accepting your fate. Try and sit up! You got the message?”

    I answered a very humble, “Yes.”

    It was indeed ironic that I had just spent ten years in India, searching for the truth, and here I was in my hometown, being confronted by a man who was very much a master. Life can be strange like that.

    The conclusion in this case is that acceptance is not always the key. Then again, the great Ramana was heard to say, “In life we only have two real choices: whether or not to accept that everything that happens to you in life is preordained.” Now if that is not a Zen koan what is?

    • Tan says:

      Great post, Lokesh! Maybe this guy who saved your life can not appreciate Meera’s songs.

      Does it matter, Madhu? Beauty is very subjective, nobody has the ‘key’ to it. Thank God, for that!


    • dominic says:

      A touching tale, Lokesh.

      Seems like he also cured you of ‘Spiritual Bypassitis’ (though it can always return). A virulent virus that affects many spiritual seekers!

    • frank says:

      Good story.

      Ramana`s `koan` reminds me of the Bidi Baba statement:
      “It is in the nature of being to seek adventure in becoming as it is in the nature of becoming to seek peace in being. This alternation of being and becoming is inevitable.”

      I guess for “acceptance” to be complete, we also have to accept the part of us that doesn`t accept.

    • satchit says:

      Acceptance means accepting the non-acceptance too.

    • Simond says:

      Thanks, Lokesh – an inspiring tale.

      Accepting ‘fate’, ‘surrender’ et al, is all very well, and has such a cosy spiritual ring about it; but recognising that we can do something about our so-called destiny is also an important act in ensuring we aren’t fatalistic and haven’t given up.

      I’ve often found that at the moment when we are at our most fatalistic is the time when we can also see that we still have a choice.

      Thanks again for sharing such a powerful testament.

    • kusum says:

      Because doctor was concerned with curing your body. That is his job. ‘Tathata’ may put one’s mind at peace but it is not going to solve problems or situations. Yes, it is nice to be thankful but without ambitions & practicality, life can be one big lazy drag.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Thank you, Lokesh, for sharing.

      And what a difference that makes, to be humbled by such a strong tale versus being humiliated mixed with a personal agenda in so-called feed-back.

      Quite a living Zen Koan, which is working, you left for us all with your story. Thanks again.

      And I take it as remedy today with Dominic´s reminder too to watch out for any `Spiritual Bypassitis´ (which I loved as a ´term). Less gallic acid as usual, so it might be medicine wise (for me) better for balancing.

      Officially, it’s the last day of the ´Carnival Season´ today. A big event in the city of Munich: the dance show of the women market people. It’s raining and still – here – where I am.


  5. shantam prem says:

    In my eyes, biggest contribution of Osho is to create a village-like loose structure where people could come for days or years to understand the meanings of great-sounding words. The Words!

    One can feel the difference in the words of those who have travelled with their bag packs and those who have seen great photos in Lonely Planet guides!

  6. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh’s story is also a homage to the men and women in white coats. They are unsung heroes.

  7. shantam prem says:

    “No Need to have anything, just relax into whatever situation occurs around you.”

    Hallo, snow flakes leftists,
    Let President Trump do what he is supposed to do as a chosen President.

  8. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    We have today a mixed double-ping to the pong´of one-liners here. And it’s amazing how long these small virtual ping-pong balls take in their flight from no-where to nowhere.

    And from another ‘no-where’ this ferocious guy with ferocious eyes of ancient times is added, from whom it was said: “It’s best not to tangle with him”…

    Carnival is over, ar least here. But in the virtual realms, one never knows.



  9. Bong says:

    Past, present and future are one. What is there but acceptance? Only confusion and delusion.

    In the wise words of Kung Fu Panda:
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift, which is why it is called the Present.

    Are we not all blossoms, all the time? Change is the only constant!

  10. dominic says:

    Trigger warning!

    It’s all spin really isn’t it? The glossy airbrushed front and the flawed back. All those 80s gurus: Osho, Maharaji, Maharishi, Krishnamurti, Trungpa etc. etc.

    There was no internet then, we were young, gullible, idealistic and discouraged to think critically or even to think at all. It still goes on of course…Amma, John de Ruiter, Byron Katie. Other ‘stars’ where sannyasins have migrated to.

    Here Osho knocks the worldly man. Pretty rich from someone ordering up Rollers and bling like there’s no tomorrow. Like Marx denouncing the exploitation of workers while living off the exploitation of workers. Speaking of which, no doubt some lefties, social workers and teachers amongst us, who complain about right wing cuts etc., will see no contradiction in millions being squandered on a car collection, instead of much needed resources for the commune.

    Bit like the anti-Trump hysteria bandwagon against visa restrictions, who were invisible when Obama, Bush and Clinton were wreaking havoc in the Middle East and enforcing their own visa restrictions.

    As for Rengetsu, another one of those romantic, idealised zen stories, which we are supposed to swallow and swoon over. If any of it is true, which I doubt, ‘traditional buddhists’ are not especially mean, and that old woman would have simply frozen to death. End of.

    • Parmartha says:

      You list a lot of people, Dominic – are you sure that there is anyone of whom you can say he or she is a genuine teacher/guru in your book? And if so, please name the person!

      And IF NOT, perhaps you would be better off criticising the teacher/disciple relationship itself, which according to your book (but only your book), I suspect gives rise to your universal criticisms. Did you get hurt by a teacher or something? Or were you looking for perfection and thought you had got it?

      On the cars issue, it is old hat.

      There was a competition between disciples for donating the money simply for Rollers in Rajneeshpuram. They were the sort who wanted the kudos of the donation, and those “monies” would not have been possible to shell from their pockets for general commune consumption.

      Osho never owned the Rollers, and when they were sold the monies went to the financial commune accounts.

      • dominic says:

        Erm, yes, thanks for the interrogation, Parmartha.
        What is old hat is psychologising away legitimate discussions by the were you “hurt by a teacher” schtick.
        It’s a pretty simple, obvious point about gurus, hypocrisy and trust. If you want to go off on various related tangents, go ahead.
        Everything evolves and the guru/teacher scene today is very large and varied. All the way from glitzy Superbowl revivalist meetings to small informal gatherings.
        Who’s ‘genuine’? It’s a bit like music, if you like it, suck it and see, but buyer beware! Or if the whole idea of a guru/master relationship creeps you out, follow your own Self or mix it all up.
        And for those REALLY in the know and truly enlightened, there are no gurus, there is no ‘you’, there is no ‘me’, it’s all a dream…yada yada…
        Meanwhile, back in samsara, and to recap, I smell BS in a guy decrying materialism while ordering a 100 or so Rollers for personal use. Does that seem so strange? Plus the story of Rengetsu being dubious, if not fictitious, and just a hook for Osho’s rap about acceptance and ‘traditional buddhists’ vs. the purity of Zen etc, as was his wont.
        Feel free to make your counter-arguments (reason and evidence), not just thinly veiled attempts to discredit valid issues (“did you get hurt by a teacher or something?”).
        Ok, I get your line about the Rollers. Do I buy it? No! Sounds like flim-flam to me (using the duck test – “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck”). Rollers he wanted, Rollers he got. Are you saying they were All bought by rich devotees?
        “Osho never owned the Rollers” – a quibble. Were they free for others to drive?
        They were sold when things went South and “monies went to the commune”, but since he was the commune for all intents and purposes, this seems like sophistry. It’s doubtful we’ll ever really know.
        Here’s the ‘evil’ Sheela’s, Osho-as-spoilt-brat Machiavellian take…

        “He was getting bored. So one day, out of the blue, He demanded of me to get Him 30 new Rolls-Royces within one month. At this time He already had 96 brand new Rolls-Royces. Obviously He was only looking for entertainment.
        Thirty Rolls-Royces meant about three to four million dollars. We could have arranged this kind of money only by drastically reducing our operating budget…
        This conflict threw me back to His teachings. “If you have difficulties making a decision, choose the lesser of the two evils.” For me, in this case, that was refusing to get His new Rolls-Royces. When I told Him this, He became bad tempered. My refusal became yet one more reason for Him to procure these cars. He decided to change His tactics. Next day, I received a list from Him with 50 to 60 names. He asked me to invite these people to a meeting to take place the very next day in His living room. I immediately knew what He was up to when I saw the names of the people on that list. Most of them were quite rich. My heart sank…
        As expected, 21 people were declared enlightened. They were now a part of “the inner circle” that was to lead His commune and the sannyasins after His death…But the agenda here was different: emptying pockets and accounts for 30 new Rolls-Royces. A large sum was at stake, and so the enticement had to be greater as well.”

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Hi Dominic,

          You say: “Erm, yes, thanks for the interrogation, Parmartha.”

          However, Parmartha did put a question out with “Are you sure that there is anyone of whom you can say he or she is a genuine teacher/guru in your book?” – and that would be my question too.

          And you prefer not to respond to that question but instead of that you´re uploading more of Sheela´s accounts – which you wouldn´t deny that, I think, anyway have been coming more than a ´little late´! (and have been always accompanied by Sheela´s utter contempt towards Osho´s Lovers at large, btw.).

          My point once again is that your gallic-acid approach more than sometimes here at SN/UK chat (like this one) does not serve a good digestion processing of inconvenient ´truths´ or maybe a healing of hearts, but is indeed disheartening and a discouragement of finding a better and more evolved way of coming together.

          Wondering just nowif you also would totally degrade another one of the Zen stories? It goes about the two monks carrying a woman throughout a river, and getting into discussion after that about the (by standard) forbidden stance about ´carrying a woman´.

          And you probably know what one of the monks answered when he was scolded by his fellow traveller:
          “I carried the woman throughout the waters…you are carrying her in your mind…(unfortunately…maybe forever?).

          This is – not only for you – some very uncomfortable Truth to encounter, if we are dedicated to growing up.

          If I insist, Dominic, on your missing a simple response to a simple question of Parmartha, I do that because of emotional and spiritual indigestion troubles caused by too much of a gallic-acid approach from your side; not having the faintest clue where this amount of gallic acid is coming from at your side.

          To call somebody asking you a simple question a “schtick” , will NOT do.


          PRESUMABLY, Madhu, “gallic acid” MEANS bile?

          • dominic says:

            Firstly, Madhu, I don’t mind being associated with gallic acid, it seems a really wonderful beneficial protective agent – just like me!

            P’s ‘questions’ felt more like passive-aggressive deflections and defensiveness, avoiding my simple point about the gap between what a guru says and what he does, the ‘beautiful’ words and the base reality. It’s not rocket surgery, as Frank would say.

            I think it’s only courteous to respond to my point first, and then counter it if necessary rather than implying I’m mentally scarred for even raising it.

            As for your question about genuine teachers, no, I can’t be sure and I don’t care. I think some teachers have more integrity than others and there are many out there.

            Yes, Sheela is clearly the panto villain here but as she was so close to Osho for so long, still worth hearing her take, I thought.

            Personally, I like hearing inconvenient truths rather than living in fantasy and low information, that’s the matrix for you! Who controls the media controls your mind, whether that’s culture, politics, education or the Osho Times. Getting to the truth about something or someone is inherently rewarding, steering between the Scylla of cynicism and Charybdis of idealisation.

            Who are you to say what serves a “good digestion”? This is arrogance on your part. Just be honest and say, “I don’t like it”, I don’t have a problem with that.

            You don’t understand what ‘schtick’ means. Not about a person, it’s more like a routine, a sneaky ploy in this case to discredit what I’m saying. In the Soviet Union, when someone dared to criticise the State, they were called mentally ill (‘sluggish schizophrenia’) and got locked away – if you catch my drift. We now have thought crimes in the West, called ‘hate speech’…but I digress.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Thanks for sharing your reasons, Dominic, NOT to name a single (in your eyes, valuable) genuine spiritual teacher you could be grateful for.

              You prefer, you say, looking for incovenient truths, instead of ´living in fantasy and low information´, which you diagnose from afar as my ´matrix´ then.

              Re the ´indigestion troubles´ I mentioned having, I want to make once again clear that I am speaking of my own ( troubles) digesting stuff I am confronted here with, when reading and responding; I never claimed to be a spokeswoman for anybody else here.

              Re ´crime thoughts´ you mention at the end of your latest sharing contribution here, you touch the issue of totalitarian thought-control systems with mass surveillance; well, where we all, some society systems more, some less (visible) are marching into, praising and bringing to execution the Mighty Lord, ‘The Algorythm’, which does the sorting ‘out’ and sorting ´in´ as a mathematical mechanical stance , howsoever it´s ´convenient´ for whatsoever purposes.

              In what human livable role you see yourself in such totalitarian systems as a human being, I don´t know.

              My ´matrix´ may be, in your eyes, that I see a system that is rooted in thought control and mass surveillance – as a fascistic system.

              I met some quite genuine teachers, unlike you, whom I am grateful for teaching as to their best capacity, that a thought is just a thought and how to disconnect with such attachment.

              Most attachments I have with thoughts and feelings around rapists’ and perpetrators’ and intruders’ crimes I have been confronted with in my (quite) long lifetime as a woman. And I haven´t make a secret out of it here in the Chat.

              And I am working on it, here, at my place. Quite arduous and takes much effort from time to time to disconnect or to deal with my PTSD to my best capacity.

              Would never choose a companion for that inner-work, Dominic, as you present yourself here. As you have, how I see it, the tendency to throw out valuables with the (acid-) bath water.

              I will be ever grateful to Osho and for being able to be present in His Presence; you won´t change that with some of the meanwhile numerous performances and singled out questionable reports from or about Sheela Birnstiehl, who btw, in my eyes, has never been ´THE´ panto villain in the Sannyas movement, but was supported by quite many in her team to execute criminal actions. Shocking!

              The credit of the SN/UK website was and is to put up quite a lot of inconvenient truth testimonials here: the report of Prem Rajesh (´The day we got guns’) and some FBI testimonials, to name just a few of them.

              I also “disgress” here, Dominic, I know, but Life, like me, myself, is not perfect.


              • dominic says:

                You seem to be attacking me over things I haven’t said or have misinterpreted, called the ‘straw man fallacy’. I can’t really have a proper discussion around that.

                I never said I have or haven’t met a genuine teacher. It’s a large topic, maybe you and Parmartha should start a thread and people could rap about it. It seems important to you both.

                I just wanted to stick to the point around Osho’s Rollers and the Tathata theme of materialism. I wanted to hear the rebuttals if there were any. Instead I get you and Parmartha flying around all over the place. It just seems defensive to me. Not really surprised, I did say “Trigger Warning”.

                The topic of cults and thought control might make for another interesting thread as part of the ‘fascistic system’ you mention.

                I am not a “companion for that inner-work” – how do you make this stuff up? Nor do I equate getting at the truth with ‘bile’ or ‘acid bath water’, nor am I obliged to mention ‘valuables’ each time to make you feel better. Nor am I saying Sheela’s reports are trustworthy, but perhaps worth mentioning.

            • Tan says:

              Ok, Dominic!
              If you come here in SN, I believe you are attracted to Osho, somehow. Can you share with us what you like about him? Cheers!

              • dominic says:

                Not at the present time, Tan, because it feels like a pressure to balance some equation for people.

                And honestly, I never knew the guy, more of a figurehead for an energy stream that was built by all involved, during that zeitgeist.

                I thank myself and others for contributing to it.
                I unthank myself and others for any lies or illusions I may have perpetuated, but that’s ok.

              • frank says:

                Am I the only one who feels that the usage of the word ‘share’instead of ,for example, ‘say’, ‘express’ or a host of other possible words is somehow forced, clumsy and entirely unneccesary?

                It`s just a daft convention from the language and world of psychobabble, isn`t it?

                Here`s a mind-expanding exercise in increasing the scope of self-expression through use of language:
                Every time you are about to use the word ‘share’, try to think of an alternative, more apt and exact word or way of expressing the nuance of what you might mean in the particular situation. (You might be surprised how many there are).

                • Tan says:

                  Frank boy, English is not my first language. To me, share means ‘say’, ‘express’, etc… There is no psychobabble in my question. Just a question!

                  By the way, I am Italian by birth and blood, so…Cheers!

                • Tan says:

                  Bloody Hell!
                  Lulling? Anchoring? Psychobabbling?
                  I just asked, “What do you see in Osho that makes you come in SN?”

                  This is a website, everybody is free to read it! Is this sharing or not? Frank boy and Dominic, you are soooo gay!


                • frank says:

                  Gosh yes, gayness…

                  Osho said this about it:
                  “Homosexuality has arisen because we have deprived people of heterosexuality. Homosexuality was born as a religious phenomenon in the monasteries because we forced monks to live together in one place and nuns to live in one place, and we separated them by great walls.
                  Homosexuality is bound to happen. It happens only in monasteries and in the army, because these are the two places where we don’t allow men and women to mix. Or it happens in boys’ and girls’ hostels; there also we don’t allow them to mix. The whole phenomenon of homosexuality is a by-product of this whole stupid upbringing. Homosexuality will disappear from the world the day we allow men and women to meet naturally.”

                  Enlightened wisdom?
                  Or complete bollocks from a guy who needed to get out more?

                • dominic says:

                  Thank you for sharing, Tan!
                  I am happy, gay, cheerful… usually while asleep.
                  Is that you?

                • Arpana says:

                  @frank 5 March, 2017 at 5:43 pm

                  “There is nothing wrong in being homosexual – you need not feel guilty about it. One certainly has to go beyond sex, but that is as applicable to heterosexuality as it is applicable to homosexuality.

                  Heterosexuality or homosexuality are just different styles of the same stupidity! You need not feel guilty. In fact, looking at the population of the world, homosexuality should be supported. At least you will not be increasing the population of the world, you will not be loading the earth more. It is already loaded too much.”


                • frank says:

                  That was a good idea.
                  Impractical tho`, as unfortunately, it only happens in the monasteries. the army and the YMCA.

                • dominic says:

                  On balance, I don’t think Osho was a fan of rump pumping (nor am I, I hasten to add – sorry, Tan). His stance on population control was popular back then. Clearly he didn’t want energies diverted to child-rearing, which takes a lot of resources. The Greens and ecoworriers were in agreement.

                  Now there’s a complete reversal in their policy, using the low birth rate of westerners as an excuse to open borders and bring in high breeding populations from the southern hemisphere. So in hindsight that self-involved idea, have lots of sex but no kids, was pretty shortsighted.

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Yes, from bile, moderators, and I did google that and did presume that British language natives would understand what I meant.

        • Parmartha says:

          I don’t think Madhu and I are trying to upend you, Dominic. You are a sensitive soul.

          It would never have occurred to me to be a matter of particular interest except that you have put out a long string of names, and dump them in the flawed bag. And then refuse to tell us of someone who isn’t, though you hint at it…

          You also seem to be very receptive to the ‘negative’. Is it something to look at?

          • dominic says:

            There you go again, therapizing, patronising, telling me I’m ‘sensitive’, ‘negative’, I should look at that etc, instead of just giving some straight answers. I don’t do it to you, though I could easily. I consider it impolite and unasked for.
            You are hiding behind questions I am not obliged to answer. Say what YOU think. Express yourself.

            I was speaking of the general tendency of 80s celebrity gurus to be hypocritical and that all gurus are ‘human, all too human’, not “just a vehicle for Source” and the idealised projections your rose-tinted spectacles would have you believe. I’m surprised you haven’t grown out of that.

            Times have changed and the more modern interesting teachers cultivate less theatrics and more ‘normality’. You know the sites: conscioustv, batgap, youtube.

            Osho with his hats is kind of old hat and dated, with all the hysterical fawning adulation and staginess for you to project on. I don’t recommend anyone, why should I? I don’t see why discussing contradictions, fakery, ethics etc in one guru requires me to promote another.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              Dominic, you say: “Call me “negative” if you like. Am I bovvered?”

              You make us a little bit more acquainted with your view “Times change” as a changing agent on a mission.

              And your graphic designing texting stance on the ´Buddha Symbol´ (1 March, 2017 at 10:10 pm) like: “Forget your Present because I don´t get you one” was clear enough.

              Same – with your introducing the other day the term “to grok” something or somebody, which I googled then in wiki – and that was quite amazing too:
              Quite a wide range from the science fiction story offspring up to naming IT progamming skills in engineering some current key-logging systems of the NSA. They are also called “GROK”.

              Amazing. Indeed.
              No, you are not´”bovvered”, indeed.

              What hasn’t changed up to now, I would say, are the barbarous actions and measures of humans to eliminate what is seen as “the old so-called hats of approaching reality” (showing up by eliminating other human beings as well). Those whom one wants to get rid of in the lust for power and space.

              And what also didn´t change is the way agents of the so-called “new and more appropriate” are always claiming and praising themselves to just have better manners or even better ethics, like you claim to have.

              “Emperor’s New Clothes”, I´d say. Hilarious!

              And such a stance is not in the least inviting, Dominic. Because love, re-a-spect and compassion for your fellow beings is missing. At least in your performance as a UK SN chat-contributor (agent on mission).

              Sure enough, understandable that way, that you don´t like simple question posed to you from other contributors in that role (pattern).


  11. Parmartha says:

    It wasn’t an interrogation, Dominic, it was a simple question, and hoping that with an honest answer we could carry on a rational discussion.

    Thank you, Madhu for your post, and your sharing that this would also be your question.

  12. shantam prem says:

    Parmartha, I wish to know from you one simple point. Hopefully, no one answers before P.

    In your view, Osho is a divine incarnation in human form, or he is human who reached to divine through single dimensional goal spread over lifetimes?

    • Parmartha says:

      Funny question, but I will reply:

      I will reply in a simple way: he achieved union with “God” through the efforts he made. He then became a nobody, and just a vehicle for Source.

      What is the point of your question, Shantam?

  13. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    “Nor am I saying Sheela’s reports are trustworthy, but perhaps worth Mentioning”.

    If I understand well, Dominic means to be mentioned here, where quite different women are trustworthy.

    Personally, if Frank allows it, I would share that I could believe in Sheela only if she swore on her uncle.



  14. dominic says:

    I don’t quite grok you, Veet, but yeah, Hilary – pure evil.

    Sheela, deranged and punching above her weight, but in mentioning her, the follow-up question is inevitably, what lunatic put her in charge? Oh yeah….

  15. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    During the US presidential elections around here there was a near-unanimous endorsement for political correctness, to the detriment of the small American Berlusconi.

    Someone has already answered your question: a mistake; it seems that it was an Indian way, a choice made by Osho in cultivating relations with neighbouring families to his family of origin.

    What to say? Sheela is not potentially a buddha like you or me? The neighbours are not too buddhas? If I think Sheela says bullshit? I would say, as perhaps you would say too, that to me she does not resonate in her authenticity, for the little that I know about her (videos, interviews), but I felt compassion for her when Osho started to talk again and her ego began to deflate; she preferred to escape before being deflated entirely.

    It was for Osho to collect RR, like eating or smoking for some other Illuminated ones – a too much humane way to remain among the too much humans? Weird, but possible; I actually have no idea of ​​the loneliness of a Master, it is already too big a mystery, His stay among us.