Osho did speak about Dr. S.K. Saxena, who was the father of the author of the two previous strings.
Here below about his first meeting with Dr Saxena. (Spelt variously)
When on the first day I entered the university’s philosophy class, I met Doctor Saxena for the first time. Only for a few professors did I have really great love and respect. These two were my most loved professors – Doctor S. K. Saxena and Doctor S. S. Roy – and for the simple reason that they never treated me like a student.
Osho is far right in this photo, which one of the others is Dr Saxena?!
When I entered Doctor Saxena’s class the first day, with my wooden sandals, he looked a little puzzled. He looked at my sandals and asked me, “Why are you using wooden sandals? – they make so much noise.” I said, “Just to keep my consciousness alert.”
He said, “Consciousness? Are you trying to keep your consciousness alert in other ways too?”
I said, “Twenty-four hours a day I am trying to do that, in every possible way: walking, sitting, eating, even sleeping. And you may believe it or you may not, that just lately I have succeeded to be aware and alert even in sleep.”
He said, “The class is dismissed – you just come with me to the office.” The whole class thought I had created trouble for myself the first day. He took me into his office and took from the shelf his thesis for a doctorate that he had written thirty years before. It was on consciousness. He said, “Take it. It has been published in English, and so many people in India have asked to translate it into Hindi – great scholars, knowing both languages, English and Hindi, perfectly well. But I have not allowed anybody, because the question is not whether you know the language well or not; I was looking for a man who knows what consciousness is – and I can see in your eyes, on your face, by the way you answered… you have to translate this book.”
I said, “This is difficult because I don’t know English much, I don’t know Hindi much either. Hindi is my mother tongue, but I know only as much as everybody knows his mother tongue. And I believe in the definition of the mother tongue. Why is every language called the mother tongue? – because the mother speaks and the father listens – and that’s how the children learn. That’s how I have learned.
“My father is a silent man; my mother speaks and he listens – and I learned the language. It is just a mother tongue, I don’t know much; Hindi has never been my subject of study. English I know just a little bit, and that is enough for your so-called examinations, but for translating a book which is a Ph.D. thesis…. And you are giving it to a student?”
He said, “Don’t be worried – I know you will be able to do it.”
I said, “lf you trust me, I will do my best. But one thing I must tell you, that if I find something wrong in it then I am going to make an editorial note underneath, putting a star on it, that this is wrong, and how it should be. If I find something missing, I am going to put a star again and a footnote that something is missing, and this is the part that is missing.”
He said, “I agree to that. I know there are many things missing in it. But you surprise me: you have not even seen the book, you have not even opened it. How do you know that things will be missing in it?”
I said, “Looking at you… in the way you can see by looking at me, that I am the right person to translate it, I can see perfectly, Doctor Saxena, you are not the right person to write it!”
And he loved that so much that he told it to everybody. The whole university knew about it – this dialogue that had happened between me and him. In the next two-month summer vacations I translated the book, and I made those editorial notes. When I showed him, there were tears of joy in his eyes.
He said, “I knew perfectly well that something is missing here, but I could not figure it out because I have never practiced it. I was just trying to collect all the information about consciousness in Eastern scriptures. I had collected a lot, and then from that I started sorting it out. It took me almost seven years to finish my thesis.” He had done really a great scholarly job – but only scholarly. I said, “It is scholarly, but it is not the work of a meditator. And I have made all these notes – that this can be written only by a scholar, not by a meditator.”
He looked at all those pages and he said to me, “If you had been one of my examiners for the thesis I would not have got the doctorate! You have found exactly the right places that I was doubtful about, but those fools who examined it were not even suspicious. It has been praised very much.”
He was a professor in America for many years, and his book is really a monumental work of scholarship; but nobody criticized him, nobody has pointed…. So I asked him, “Now what are you going to do with the translation?”
He said, “I cannot publish it. I have found a translator – but you are more an examiner than a translator! I will keep it but I cannot publish it. With your notes and with your editorial commentary it will destroy my whole reputation – but I agree with you. In fact,” he said, “if it were in my power I would have given you a doctorate just for your editorial notes and footnotes, because you have found exactly the places which only a meditator can find; a non-meditator has no way to find them.”
So my whole life from the very beginning has been concerned with two things: never to allow any unintelligent thing to be imposed upon me, to fight against all kinds of stupidities, whatsoever the consequences, and to be rational, logical, to the very end. This was one side, that I was using with all those people with whom I was in contact. And the other was absolutely private, my own: to become more and more alert, so that I didn’t end up just being an intellectual.
Intellect and meditation, meeting together, growing together, give you the wholeness of being.
There have been meditators who have not had very grown-up intellects. They enjoyed their meditation, they were fulfilled, but they were incapable of conveying the message to anyone – because for that a very sharp intelligence is needed. You will have to cut the whole jungle of the other person’s mind, you will have to make a path in the jungle of thoughts. You will need a really sharp, sword-like intelligence.
But if you just create the path, that is not the purpose. A path is meaningless unless there is a traveler.
Intellect can make the path, but meditation travels on it.
Osho, From Misery to Enlightenment, Ch 1, Q 1 (excerpt)
I would have read this so differently years ago, but I have known a few 18, 19 and 20/21 year-olds who were just as certain of their opinions, their views and would have happily put professors in their place at that age.
I bet you met a few of them at the LSE at that time, big P. Dahrendorf encouraged that kind of approach, did he not?
Yes, Arpana, there have been and are some, who, as you put it, “encouraged a certain approach.”
But that´s not about what is quoted/shared as a story here in my eyes, as those guys you mentioned I experienced in very subcutan*, very eager ways wanted to be loved (and to be adored too) as it was mostly an empty gesture (the approach) but not that easy to discover quite often. However, one could find that out mostly sooner or later in these times and social areas you refer to.
No, I wouldn´t compare that at all with the story here. The story which is posted here I have in a vivid memory because I enjoyed it so much when I first heard it, and still enjoy.
(Quite some other stuff than the numerous stories He told us about His years at school or in university and his various very mischievous actions to put mere pundits in their ´place:´ as vain, very vain pundits with full blasted mental or ‘spiritual egomania’ and the social careers* so often connected with that).
This Dr. Saxena (as well as his son, I would say)…btw, the man with glasses on, sitting in the middle of the pic, I presume…is quite a very beautiful Soul.
And the story here told again covers that too: that he is ready in an instant and without regret for his surely tremendous efforts he has undertaken for reputation in a philosophical field, to let go.
There´s greatness in that, that he did bow down in joy without hesitation to something he recognised as superior or much closer to truth, however you will name it.
Friendship, growing this way is of great value. And rare too.
Yes, it´s a smooth story, very lovable to listen to (read it) it again. Thanks for posting it, SN folks,
Madhu
MOD:
*subcutan (line 3), Madhu = hidden, unconscious?
Madhu:
Yes, moderators, hidden´but often quite consciously hidden; manipulative stuff…we say it’s creeping under the skin: ´subcutan´ – that means you can FEEL it but mostly have no proof.
Some learn such nowadays in coaching seminars btw: building trust when nothing is really trustworthy – quite a business skill of the times we are in.
I don’t agree with you, Madhu.
Imo, these stories are romanticising certain events, in light of the place Osho took up in the eyes of so many.
Osho as a young man, before his ‘enlightenment’, was an opinionated egotist.
You would nag a young man who behaved like that here, to death; to change his ways.
“You would nag a young man who behaved like that here, to death; to change his ways.”
I don´t wonder so much any more, Arpana, as I did before, about your response, calling me ´names ´ as one says, and where such comes from.
Meeting hate-stalkers on a daily basis here – better to say, being awaited by them when I leave the house, I have experienced a lot these years. Also today.
So far – nothing can be done about it.
Madhu
P.S. @ Arpana:
“I wanted to know”, says Scilla Elworthy in her London TED talk, “how violence, how oppression works. And what I’ve discovered since: Bullies use violence in three different ways. They use political violence to intimidate, physical violence to terrorise and mental and emotional violence to undermine.”
The way forward for you is to own your own bully, Madhu. The bully that you are so in denial about.
Did you teach very young children at one time, Madhu?
“Did you teach very young children at one time, Madhu?”
(Arpana)
No, Arpana, never did that.
However, did listen, do listen from the heart to many distorted souls of children in the bodies of grown-ups for quite a long time. (Including, if that happens, my own stuff according to such matters….and practising listening never ends).
Also worked in a research group for some time.
Have no children of my own´as a mother, nor any profession as a teacher, and shared most of that that already with you all here.
Madhu
Arpana, check the dates of Osho Biodata.
Rajneesh of that time was already enlightened during the university days, if one listens to Osho talking about that night of 21st March, 1952.
As i remember from the discourses, Osho went to school at the age of nine; this is in a way an advantage when others enter the school at the age of four, five.
SN, thank you for finding such posts which mostly tingle my unconscious self!
Madhu, nice post, your ‘subcutan’ was enlightening!
Arpana, can relate to your 16 January, 2017, 12:47 pm post.
The very beautiful essence of that story, Kavita, is for me the point of mutual consent and transparency about what is happening (did happen) here in that story about the meeting of two human Beings.
It´s what a beautiful friendship as well as a love affair happening or a good co-operation is all about, isn´t it?
Madhu
Yes, Madhu!
In society, one has to live in harmony with others, which is like buffers. Love & compassion also help to be in good relations with others.
But in schools & universities, usually most teachers & professors encourage students to give their opinions on subjects & sometimes some professors also ask some help from students.
“Love & compassion also help to be in good relations with others.”
Being able to set boundaries for oneself and the other is helpful as well.
Of course, Arpana. One has to have strength not to enter in other’s periphery as well.
Where are you from, Kusum?
Correction: that of enlightenment: 21 March, 1953.
Interesting will be to know what Prof. Saxena must have thought about the great rise of his prodigal student on the world stage with the title Bhagwan Shree and then one day, the equally spectacular fall*.
* As disciples we don´t accept as ‘fall’ but for the unsentimental observer it was not a martyrdom either.
Most of the Indian households have discussed Osho Saga at one time or another; can son Saxena have the honesty to share in the home discussion about Rajneesh?!
19th January:
Few people believe Osho died with the request, “Please, forgive and forget me.”
Few others believe Osho left the body with the instructions, “Never Born, Never Died.”
And most people feel him alive! Sod off, Shantam!
Nothing nice to say today? No? Then, shut up!
For Tan. 19 January, 2017 at 10:19 pm
[A sannyasin said that she was very upset during the visit of a friend of hers, as she felt he had attacked her about Sannyas and Osho very aggressively. She said she felt very inadequate in trying to convey her feelings to him.
Osho said how useless it is to try and communicate to someone what you are experiencing here].
“This is something that cannot be intellectually communicated. It is just as if you have fallen in love. You cannot convince anybody about why you have fallen in love; there is no why to it. If you try to argue about it you will be in difficulties, because you will feel that you cannot convince. And the other person will start defending himself.”
[Osho went on to say that when the friend had come to darshan he had not been aggressive towards Osho. Osho said the aggression wasn't in fact against him or Sannyas but in defence of himself, that he was unconsciously getting ready to take sannyas himself...]
“Leave these people to me…I have my ways! I am here for these people, so don’t be worried! You just give me the hint that you want this person to be a sannyasin, and I will do!”
Osho
‘Above All Don’t Wobble’
Chapter #9
Chapter title: ‘None’
24 January 1976 pm in Chuang Tzu Auditorium
Thanks, Arps, on the spot, as always! XXX
In 2010, Tan, Bobby McFerrin, Roger Treece and a chorus of 50 amazing singers brought out an album called
´VOCAbuLaries´, and whenever I am especially aching about some Babylonian verbal hits and misunderstandings, I have one favourite song from this album to listen to.
As I am not able to add the music too to my chat-mail, I´d love to share the lyrics:
BRIEF ETERNITY
´ I hear my “hey la”
Echo with my “hola”
Beneath my footbridge, where I always sing
Whistling papa’s whistle
Bouncing off the stone
Closing my eyes to find eternal spring
Rolling down the hillside
Soaking in the twilight
Floating with laughter and the spinning sky
Deep in constellations
Fathoming creation
How could all this have come evolve
from timeless time
Imagine this
One brief eternity
One tiny glimpse from God
One small infinity
Where I sing “hey la”!
Dropping back to hard land
Ticking with the tock land
Finding a portal back to timeless seas
Maybe someone’s kiss is
Where suspended bliss is
Or in the moment
Before your baby
Drifts to sleep
Your lullabies
Lulla-bye you
Will bring you back…
Drifting off and
Slipping into Somewhere you swear you hear…
…Voices, mama’s “doo doo doo doo”
Lovers whisper “doo doo doo doo”
Loved ones lost are singing with you Psalms
and whispers
Working in the garden has you…
…Breathing in the bloom and then you
View the sunset view to move you
Close to truly understanding
Life and death but nothing ending
Voices living on
Voices, mama’s “doo doo doo doo”
Lovers cooing “doo doo doo doo”
Loved ones lost are singing with you Psalms
and whispers
Working in the garden has you…
…Breathing in the bloom, and then you View
the sunset view to bring you
Back to awe and understanding
To the place
Where revelations seem so never ending
Mama hear my hey la, hey la…
I hear Popa’s whistle, can you hear him too…
God has granted us
With this brief eternity
A chance to see wondrous glimpse
Within a kiss
Suspended bliss
An echoed voice
A spinning boy
Who’s drifting with the stars to sleep.
(P.S: It´s very worthwhile to try to get to hear it).
“And Most people feel him alive” sounds nice but is an anti-climax of reverend´s whole life effort of provocative preaching and teaching.
“And Most people feel him alive” feels like billions of people are right in their beliefs about their religion´s founder.
That is why I am saying, no need to pretend, Sannyas is a new religion. though not very influential any more.
Imho, what made possible the friendship between teacher and student was honesty: that one of Saxena to recognise that a more or less valid philosophical system of representing an experience has not yet the true fragrance of that experience.
The way Osho recalls his experiences of meditation before enlightenment, his tone seeming to confirm their authenticity and usefulness, makes me conclude, more or less inspired by ‘my vision’ of how meditation prepares at that event (to go beyond and not under the mind), that between ‘Glimpses of a Golden Childhood’ and the vision of the awakened (fully formed vision) there is a relationship: honesty in responding to what is there, small or big.
Ciao,
VF
I have just seen one rare photo first time. Year must be 1978-79. I hope many bloggers will relate with this photo, when India and Sannyas were honest and pure and vibrating.
In my heart, one of the attributes of Osho´s greatness is that He became the channel to share His motherland with the western world. Honestly speaking, I will be much more contented when I serve foreigners in my country as my own.
“Now, don’t look back. That which is gone is gone, and gone forever, never to return again. Whatsoever you do, you cannot bring it back.
The child cannot enter into the womb again, howsoever pleasant it was, comfortable, convenient, secure, safe. The child may have great nostalgia for the womb, for those beautiful, eternal nine months. Yes, I say eternal, because the child feels them as eternity, not as nine months. He has no idea of calculating time – those long, long nine months of such warmth, of such protection, of such unworried existence, of such tremendous rest and relaxation. The nostalgia hangs around. The child would like to go back to the womb, but it is not possible.
Going back is not possible at all; it is not in the nature of things. One always has to go forward. And when you look forward everything is so unfamiliar that great fear arises. One never knows where one is. One loses one’s identity, one passes through a great crisis of identity. The known is no longer there to cling to, and the unknown seems to be ungraspable.
But don’t look back; that which can’t happen can’t happen. Look forward! And don’t interpret the new and the unknown as unsafe. Interpret it in terms of adventure, exploration. Interpret it as great freedom. Buddha talks again and again about freedom. It is freedom from the past, freedom from the mother, freedom from the parents, freedom from the society, freedom from the church, the state.
What I am giving to you is absolute freedom. Yes, fear can arise, but fear arises because of your interpretation. Deep down somewhere in the unconscious you still would like to go back, to close your eyes to the new sunrise. You would like to go back even though there was nothing very valuable, nothing significant, but at least one was safe. The territory was familiar; one lived surrounded by walls. We call it a prison, but you used to call it your home; and I have taken you out of your home because it was not your real home, it was only make-believe. This freedom, this ecstasy that is arising, is your real home.
Now, if you cling to the past, which is no longer possible, and you don’t allow the future to happen smoothly, the pain can continue, the agony can continue, for months, for years. And you will be split: a part of you clinging to the no-more and a part of you longing for the not-yet.
Now be courageous. Take the quantum leap! Just as the snake slips out of the old skin, slip out of the old. It has fulfilled its function, it has brought you to the new. Gratefully say goodbye to it and plunge into this exploration that is becoming valuable to you. Plunge into this insecurity, into this danger, because life is where insecurity is; life is where danger is. There is no way to live totally unless you learn to live dangerously — more danger, more aliveness; less danger, less aliveness.”
Osho
‘The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha’, Vol 6
Chapter 6
Chapter title: ‘No Going Back’
Bloody Hell.
What kind of human beings are those who quote scriptures in between the human communication?
Gosh, Shantam.
There I was thinking you didn’t read my posts.
I read each and every post and sometimes reply gets ready while reading. It will be disrespectful and against the spirit of communication to ignore someone´s posts.
@ Shantam
“That’s how the hypocrite is born. He goes on pretending to be honest, and he goes on doing whatsoever pays. Sometimes honesty pays – then he is honest; sometimes dishonesty pays – more often dishonesty pays – then he goes on being dishonest. Whatsoever pays, whatsoever fulfils your greed….”
Osho
‘Come Follow To You’, Vol 3
Chapter 6
Chapter title: ‘A man who is enlightened has no masks’
Re Shantam Prem’s post, 22 January, 2017 at 2:38 pm
Could someone find the post for me where Shantam states categorically he never reads anything SD or myself post?
Haha, a hilarious exchange indeed! Thanks, Shantam, that’s the best laugh I’ve had today.
“more danger, more aliveness; less danger, less aliveness.”
I would hardly describe a lot of Osho’s life as living dangerously, unless the threat of hypothermia from living in a cold, air-conditioned room counts as a threat.
What those words make me think of is Mel Gibson’s new directorial outing, ‘Hacksaw Ridge’. Danger is depicted in a very graphic style and yes, the true life hero was very alive. A must see!
Re Lokesh 22 January, 2017 at 1:56 pm:
“A hypocrite is one who says one thing and does another. A hypocrite is one whose inner and outer lives are different – not only different but diametrically opposite. I am not against luxury, so why should I be a hypocrite? I am not against comfort – I am not a masochist, that’s all. I don’t believe in torturing myself or anybody else. I don’t believe in torture.
Osho
‘The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha’, Vol 1
Chapter 10
Chapter title: ‘Neither This Nor That’
“more danger, more aliveness; less danger, less aliveness.”
Lokesh, visualise this expression in context with O disciple’s life. Living in India after dropping out from mainstream working life has given the experience of living dangerously, feeling alive.
Compare this with those who have become masters in their own right by listening to youtube clips!
”It is freedom from the past, freedom from the mother, freedom from the parents, freedom from the society, freedom from the church, the state.”
Now I am wondering for myself if it shall ever be possible to be free from the Master; actually, I sometimes enjoy being not free from most of the mentioned attachments!
Well said, Kavita.
I was pondering on my attachments the other day,and then thought, “So what!”
Probably means I’ve let go of the attachment to the idea I shouldn’t be attached.
Thanks. I needed that.
“Now, if you cling to the past, which is no longer possible, and you don’t allow the future to happen smoothly, the pain can continue, the agony can continue, for months, for years. And you will be split: a part of you clinging to the no-more and a part of you longing for the not-yet.
Now be courageous. Take the quantum leap!”
Quantum leap. That was a good show!
Attachment certainly creates misery.
Misery is the mother of enlightenment !
Attachment & Love are different. Without attachment there is no bondage but love is there, you can love without clinging.
Sounds all very simple, but Kusum, whom have you loved without being attached to them?
I simply love.