Sounds an unlikely business! – but Pune Court issues letter of request to Spanish court for original of Osho’s will (Sept 19th)
In an effort to bring back the purported will of Osho, a Pune court has issued a letter of request to a court in Spain where the will had surfaced 23 years after his death.
Assistant public prosecutor Sangita Shinde informed the Bombay high court that a letter rogatory (letter of request) has been issued to the concerned court in Spain, in an attempt to seek the original will, believed to be left behind by Osho.
The move came after the bench of Justice Naresh Patil and Justice Prakash Naik expressed that Pune police should try to trace and bring back the “original will” of Osho Rajneesh to India. In order to investigate the matter properly, the police should try and retrieve the original will to compare Osho’s signature to that on the purportedly forged will, the judges had said.
The court was hearing a petition filed by a disciple of Osho, Yogesh Thakkar, who alleged that the will, that surfaced 23 years after the Osho’s death, was fake. Thakkar also claimed that the Koregaon police had not obtained the report of a handwriting expert even though the FIR was registered on December 8, 2013.
This sounds like an ‘Akbar-Birbal’ story!
Akbar-Birbal stories are children’s stories. This vid I am sharing is one of the most popular ones, it’s called ‘Birbal Ki Khichdi’. The Pune Court is kind of playing Birbal…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C9aBQTHkfg
Thanks, Kavita.
There was an episode of the Simpsons where a religious cult had taken over the local town, the ‘Movementarians’:
https://youtu.be/DsKxxdSbhBE
The ‘Movementarians’ are loosely based on activites at Rajneeshpuram.
Niren, who is said to be a witness of the Will in question, appears in the second vid:
https://youtu.be/D_xje-aWyEw
Movementarians sound like something to do with bowels.
The first video reminds me of this clip from ‘Airplane’:
https://youtu.be/f4CizzE-zZo
Thanks, Shanti.
The first link is just a 36 secs. clip. Can’t find the full episode.
The second link has been banned – by Osho International!
MOD:
WHAT’S THIS, PLEASE?!
The episode in question is called ‘The Joy of Sect’ and I believe that it is spread out over several youtube vids.
Strange people over in OFI – control freaks – pulling down videos of the Simpsons and other youtube vids.
I noticed that they have also recently pulled down part two of Laxmi’s ‘Life is just a play’ video that was made by Oshoworld and contains interesting footage from the Ranch.
Refers, MOD, to the youtube references that Shanti has put up, 3.49pm on 21st Sept.
Like Shanti in his later reply I am amazed that Osho International should even be interested in getting youtube to take such things down.
Followers down the ages have done enough dodgy business in the name of those who live in our memory but this last will story of Osho on 10 rupees stamp paper is unique in itself, it is as unique as Osho wishes His style of Zen to be.
Time has shown Osho Work Management has got alpha-male samurais who can destroy and kill without bloodshed.
“Time has shown Osho Work Management has got alpha-male samurais who can destroy and kill without bloodshed.”
That’s just your opinion, of course, Shantam. An opinion that’s heavily influenced by your personal circumstances and by your obsessive need to cling to a dead, unresurrectable past.
If you imagine (there’s that word again) any future take-over by your fellows-in-outrage is likely to attract the sort of young (or even middle-aged) foreign clientele that were magnetically drawn to Pune three or four decades ago then you’re in for a severe disappointment.
Basically, you’re stuck in a self-made dream, in an effort to escape from what often sounds like something of a self-made nightmare.
Satyadeva, is this your response to the theme of the string? If you have really some kind of emotional intelligence you will give your psychoanalysis over the mind of people who become torch bearers of departed greats.
Not all great men and women leave behind some kind of legacy to continue. For example, I don´t think Ms. Meera has this charisma or vision to leave behind some kind of lasting legacy which becomes foundation of some church. She is like professors of university who die for ever if they have not authored some book for future references.
In Osho´s case, it is different. He is in the league of Buddha, Mahavira, Jesus, Mohammed.
“In Osho´s case, it is different. He is in the league of Buddha, Mahavira, Jesus, Mohammed.”
If so, any decisions over his “legacy” should be kept well away from dysfunctional mediocrities such as you, Shantam, who are manifestly (except to yourself) unqualified for the job.
And what a prize twat you are for saying anything at all about Meera, or about anyone else of whom you have absolutely zero experience.
I ask again, Satyadeva, do you have any thought about the theme of the string?
At least you can acknowledge my posts give you enough material to react.
Shantam, I’m with Arpana and Lokesh on this, in that I barely give a damn. Neither, I strongly suspect, did Osho.
But nothing’s going to stop your already hopelessly prejudiced, legalistically mediocre brain from milking this laughably minor issue as much as you can, so at this point I’m going to stop right here, right now.
“People who are in the profession of massage, hair cutting, hand job etc. can think brain tumour is just a pimple, a minor blockage of Chi energy.”
Quotation specially created for the collective mob of Sannyasnews!
I always feel I should care about this and I don’t.
I suspect that in part what has happened is that those who have most investment in this being true have zero or less credibility, and their nagging and carping has had the effect nagging and carping does. I have switched off because of them and don’t give a shit.
This all seems very surreal to me.
Two government bureaucracies, Indian and Spanish, really amongst, in my experience, the most slow and inefficient in the world, approaching each other with a letter of request.
Now I wonder whether the letter will be actually despatched, and if so, when, and if sent to the right address, and then, if sent to the right address, whether sent on to the appropriate bit of the bureaucracy to make a decision, and then being forwarded up the chain for a decision to be made, and then the papers lost, etc…maybe a couple of years down the line again before any news – if any…
Whether the will is real or not is not important to people’s own personal growth, and that has to be the only concern of a ‘real’ disciple.
Can anyone shed some light at all about the ´fact´(?) why Spanish bureaucracy is or has been involved with this fraud vs. non-fraud issue?
However, you write, Parmartha: “Whether the will is real or not is not important to people’s own personal growth, and that has to be the only concern of a ‘real’ disciple”. So true.
But again, there may then happen numerous endless and fruitless discussions again, what a ‘real’ disciple is and what not (how it is quite unfortunately and often happening here).
“If love is missing”, I read the other day in an Osho quote, “politics comes in”. So true too, individually as collectively.
Madhu
I put to you, Madhu, that when love is present, who talks about it? (I don’t mean love for a partner. I mean in the widest sense. If you have a connection to Osho love is always present).
Love talked about is actually just sentimentality.
“I put to you, Madhu, that when love is present, who talks about it? (I don’t mean love for a partner. I mean in the widest sense. If you have a connection to Osho love is always present).
Love talked about is actually just sentimentality.”
Yes, Arpana.
And again:
” “If love is missing” (I read the other day in an Osho quote) “politics comes in”. So true too, individually as collectively.” ”
Madhu
I bet anything that Thakkar had a sibling, or siblings, whom he was in constant conflict with about toys, and his crusade is a continuation, an acting out, of that sibling conflict over toys.
Parmartha, the will is forged with an original signature, & that is the catch of this verdict!
Imo, that will is genuine, and they were instructed not to produce it until absolutely necessary, to shut the baboons up, whom Osho knew would try to take the ashram over.
&…
I have heard a story, that someone bought a picture of Picasso for a million rupees. That man asked Picasso’s wife if the picture was authentic.
Picasso’s wife replied, “Don’t worry, you may purchase it, because this picture was done by Picasso in front of me.”
The picture was purchased. That man went to inform Picasso about the purchase. He said that he had purchased the picture for a million rupees. He had taken the picture with him. Picasso saw it and said that it was not the original. It was not authentic.
That man was puzzled, he became nervous. He had paid one million rupees and Picasso declared it was not the original.
The man said, “What do you say? Your wife assured me that the picture was made in front of her.”
His wife was present there. She said, “What do you say, have you forgotten it? You have done this picture, I was present there.”
Picasso replied that he himself had done it, there was no doubt about it, but it was not authentic.
Now the matter was more confounded. If it was done by Picasso, why was it not authentic?
Then the purchaser said, “Are you joking?”
Picasso replied that he was not joking. The picture was certainly done by him. But that picture was done by him previously also, so this was simply its copy. “It is not the original. This idea of mine I have already exhibited once.” ”
Osho,
‘The Perennial Path: The Art of Living’
Chapter 3, ‘Material Prosperity and Non-Possessiveness’
My dad tells a story of his younger days about a woman he knew who had a sketch done by an unknown artist in a restaurant somewhere in Spain. She thought it was crap and unflattering so she chucked it away.
She later she found out that the guy was Picasso.
Frank, I would have said I was really familiar with the Lichtenstein musings, but I haven’t seen this before.
Guess each one of us has one’s own honest opinion.
Kavita, the one thing about this business that does intrigue me is I wonder what is behind the producing of the will, real or fake.
If Jayesh and Amrito had produced a will, witnessed by every judge in the Indian Judiciary, or any other judiciary for that matter, Thakkar and his band of baboon followers would still have been screeching like crazy.
To me it is inconceivable that Amrito, Jayesh and all the lawyers they have working for them did not know this would happen; did not realise the baboon like caterwauling that would ensue at the appearance of this document.
Ergo this is a ploy. This is strategic.
Arps, the will was produced to create a ground for OIF’s legitimacy/control over businesses created through Osho.
Amrito & Jayesh could not take the risk of involving the Indian judicial system in this forgery, and in any case Jayesh & company/OIF have an upper hand in financing Osho’s return to India/creation of the present OIF, so on that basis the Indian Judiciary may have given them some room for play.
Guess if ploys & strategies do exist they could be existential!
I can not believe that nobody in that set-up had the foresight to see the will would be challenged.
If that will is false they will get a prison sentence. Everything will be over.
I can not believe that degree of collective naivete, stupidity on the part of Jayesh, Amrito and the lawyers who they work with. So I am saying there has to be more to this than the obvious.
I agree, seems extremely unlikely that Amrito, Jayesh and Niren would do something as stupid as create an obviously forged will – if anyone has done this, it is more likely to be the work of an Indian.
India is fucking corrupt, man, and forging wills is just the kind of thing that Indians would do.
Perhaps that is why so much suspicion on the part of Indians, they are used to such stories of corruption within circles of power and within the media.
I don`t know if there is any Indians left in the Inner Circle team. Shantam probably knows.
I was in India during the general election campaign of Narendra Modi. Modi`s party,the BJP, decided to collect some local adivasi (tribal) people for the day and take them for a trip to the beach, which these people had never visited before.
They marvelled at the sight of the sea.
Then they paid all of the adivasis present there, one hundred rupees each, and told them to vote for Narendra Modi`s party in the upcoming election.
This is Indian-style politics.
Arps, they knew that they would be challenged but they also know it’s easy for non-Indians to get away scot-free in India. I could be wrong.
@Kavita. 24 September, 2016 at 2:12 pm
Fair comment.
Having said that, I am still left with the question:
Why in the name of God would they make a decision that could only cause them grief, damage their credibility, their work so badly? Take such a risk? Still seems to me beyond reason. They would need to be complete morons to do such a thing.
Yes, Arps. Totally agree!
And I am really sorry for the guys in Osho Resort. They have a hard fight to keep things as Osho instructed. And they are not young anymore.
I feel sick in only thinking about a takeover there.
Cheers!
Arps and Tan,
Can you please write some experience of yours in the Resort?
I don´t think any of you have ever visited Osho Resort, Hilton Resort or Trump Resort.
Why travel and spend money when living in fool´s paradise can be the best and free vacation?
“Can you please write some experience of yours in the Resort?” (Shantam Prem).
You won´t get here at this place, Shantam Prem, what you seem to be yearning for; guess you have to write about your very own experiences in the Osho Resort and wait for responses (if ever).
There is this really funny story one of the communication ´popes´ is telling about a man who is looking for a hammer to fix a pic and is going to the neighbour (Paul Watzlawik is his name, and you can google it),
and the story goes that this man is ringing the bell at his neighbour´s door, and when the door opens, he starts his approach by yelling at the neighbour.
It’s the story about almost everybody, even though most of the so-called ´others´ have more capacity to hide than you have (obviously).
So – if you combine Osho Resort with ´Hilton Resort´or ´Trump Resort´, like you did, you won´t have any chance to fix whatsoever.
It´s a sad story altogether, and it would be nice if you come to your senses.
For you and for everybody, if present here as persons (and not algorithms), individuals writing and sharing.
We are waiting for the late, late summer sun here, the weather report calls it
´Altweibersommer´ ( =the last pretty warm days before autumn takes the leaves away).
The morning shows up with a foggy, misty sky like in a dream world.
Birds are in Silence.
Madhu
Shantam, don’t be a bore…
Why look at the past, if I can look now and see the work has been done?
Osho is everywhere! I could tell you beautiful stories, witnessed by me, to show you that. But, I won’t because, just for fun, carry on with your fixed ideas; that way, Yogi sometimes has to say something and I enjoy the whole thing very much! Bye!
“Osho is everywhere!”
Just like Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed or he is holding Samsung Galaxy?
Maybe Lokesh can shed some insights about this phenomenon, ‘Osho is everywhere’!
Tan,
I have a picture im my imagination constantly, of Osho smiling benignly; just up to the right, so I have to look up to make eye contact.
All those millions of discourses spread all around the world in some form or other, so to those who are interested, I agree with you, Osho is everywhere, is available, all the time.
Is not Mohammed more available and present all the time, even in times of war and destruction?
In dreams, Shantam – yours, apparently, and the Muslims’.
Osho´s will on 10 rupees stamp paper – so cheap.
Why did not they use at least 100 rupees stamp paper for high-class forgery?
Guess when one invests 100% then even the cheapest thing is of immense value !
“For example, the German philosopher Hegel was a master in mystifying absolutely nonsensical things, and his whole strategy was just to write big words, pompous, bombastic. A single sentence would run the whole page, and by the time you come to the end of the sentence you don’t have any idea what was in the beginning, what was in the middle…
Hegel was thought to be a great philosopher – till he was understood!
When he was understood, he was put aside as just a tricky fellow, who was only trying to mystify people. And he had succeeded. At least in his life, he enjoyed the idea of being a great philosopher. Only after his death slowly, slowly scholars looked into it and found that he says nothing. He says so much, but if you condense it, your hands are empty. There is nothing in it.
Whenever I have thought about Hegel, I have always remembered a man in my village. He was almost a nutcase; he had crammed the whole Oxford dictionary, and he used to write letters to the president, to the prime minister, to the governor. He was living just near my house.
Once in a while he used to come to me to show me his letters – twenty pages, thirty pages, fifty foolscap pages typed out, but not a single sentence making any sense. He knew nothing about language; he knew everything about the dictionary, and that was the trouble. He would simply go on writing big words; it made no sense at all.
He was torturing me, so I said, “You do one thing. I don’t have much time and your letters are too long, and it will be helpful also because this big letter the President is not going to read. So with the letter you should write a small summary, just ten lines, twelve lines at the most.”
He said, “That’s a good idea. I will write the summary. That is not a problem.”
So he went to write the summary, but he left the letter with me. I was surprised; this is something strange, how is he going to write the summary? There was no problem for him; the dictionary was with him… so another ten lines of absolute absurdity. I said, “This is perfectly good. This explains everything! And I can say to you that this much the president is going to read. Twenty pages is too much. You write such great philosophy.”
But nobody was answering his letters. He would come to me saying, “Now one month has passed and no answer, not even a receipt that they have received my letter! And I had been working so hard.”
I said to him, “I don’t think these politicians have intelligence enough to understand your great philosophy.”
He said, “That is right. You are the only man who understands me. Nobody seems to understand.”
Every day he was going to the collectorate with a new letter and the collector was tired. One day the collector met me in the library and he said, “Can’t you stop this man? I never read any of his letters, but even to keep them on the table is a torture. One feels inside one’s stomach some disturbance; just to read two or three lines is enough to drive anybody crazy.”
I said, “It is very difficult to stop him, because I am the only man who understands him. If you have any difficulty, I can tell him, and he can explain.”
He said, “I don’t want you to mention it to him at all! He will come with a bigger explanation.”
Once in a while I used to go to my town, and he used to wait for me. I loved the man. He was crazy, but very nice and very sweet and absolutely harmless. I told him, “You have done only one thing wrong.”
He said, “What?” I said, “You should have been born in Germany, and you would have been known in history as a great philosopher. I have studied all those great German philosophers; they are all nutcases!” ”
Osho, ‘The Great Zen Master Ta Hui’
Chapter 14, ‘Clarity’
I had to study Hegel at LSE back in 1965/6 as part of a philosophy degree. I regret every moment of that, I felt so tired bending over his prose, and the Tutor who was sincere, but also looking back, must have been a little stupid, struggling with that text.
Every Wednesday afternoon for many weeks…and the rain on the streets of Holborn felt so welcome tramping to the tube.
Sad, wasted time, but let’s hope next life I will escape that.
Ah, but you were in London in the sixties.
Is there some discourse cutting which one can offer for contemplation to both the varying parties trying to prove who got the freshest pound of flesh before master breathed His last?
Short Story: ‘Everywhere’.
After killing his girlfriend out of jealousy, one spiritual-minded person said without any remorse, but with confidence, “She is now everywhere.”
When judge said, “For your crime, you deserve lifelong punishment, the spiritual-minded person pronounced, “So what? God is everywhere, he is in me, in you, in the prison too.”
And he closed his eyes and put the hand on heart chakra.
(The story is dedicated to faceless Tan. It is her post which gave the idea of this little story).
It is not a Buddhist story or Christian story but a story enriching the evolution of spiritual stories.
“Osho is everywhere”?
This could mean so many things. First of all, it would require a definition of what Osho is, what Osho represents to the person who says Osho is everywhere.
It would never occur to me to say Osho is everywhere. I appear to be here and that is enough to be going on with.
Were I to meet someone who told me that Osho was everywhere I would look around for someone more interesting to talk to.
Guys, what I meant is Osho is in every corner of the world through his books, and any other work from the Resort. Good job, indeed!
I have seen it, trust me! Cheers!
It`s time for the Sunday afternoon singalong at the Orange Sunshine Retirement Home:
“Sail me on a silver sun `till I know that I`m free
Show me that I`m everywhere and get me home for tea….”
All men DREAM, but not equally.
Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity.
But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.
This I did.
Thomas Edward Lawrence
I see an ‘ironic paradox’:
For the Indians to win their court case their handwriting experts are going to say that a human being is not capable of producing two identical signatures. And because the two are identical, one is a forgery.
Thus confirming that Osho was only human.
Yet should the Indians win, and maybe even gain control of the Resort, then I would imagine they would be seeking to elevate Osho to the status of a ‘Holy Man’, thus making the Ashram a worthy place of worship and pilgrimage.
In which case, it would seem to me that if Indian Holy men are capable of ‘coughing up’ gold jewellery (among other miracles!), as many seem to believe, then why shouldn’t one be able to produce two identical signatures?
Didn’t Osho cough up a golden egg at one stage?
Ah no, that was the one with the Afro.
“…as many seem to believe, then why shouldn’t one be able to produce two identical signatures?”
I guess that’s because even in Nature too, no identical twins are totally identical even though they appear to be.