Swami Anand Arun who seems to now sometimes go with the prefix of Boddhisatva: an article pubished here recently by the Katmandu Post
In my first ever-personal meeting with Osho, he asked me a question seemingly superficial but potent with great meaning – “Who are you?”
I hastily replied, “I am Arun from Nepal. I have been writing letters to you regularly. And you had asked me to attend this camp.”
Osho scanned me closely for about a minute and said mysteriously, “I see. I remember everything.”
I haven’t managed to truly understand the essence of that cryptic reply until today. I could tell he had remembered more than just my letters but just how far I couldn’t say.
His words injected a new and palpable intimacy instantly. I had as though shed the former skin of hesitation and was ready to bare the deepest secrets of my heart with no fear but in great trust and love I had not known until I met him that day.
I started narrating him how I had first seen him in Patna, about the discourse, about how he had dawned a new hope and fueled my drive for truth all over again, how his words touched me deeply.
I was so moved by his presence that I could barely keep my narration linear. I told him about my search, how it had taken me to many different gurus but how these wanderings had been futile and how that quest in my heart had remained as burning and as unsatisfied. I told him how I had started to read him regularly since the meeting. Truth be told, there wasn’t a single day that would go by without me reading his words for at least a few hours.
Osho then asked me about my family. I told him a little bit. Osho told me Nepal had a great spiritual potential. Just as the entire terrain of Tibet vibrated with the teachings of the Buddha, Nepal has the same potential to imbibe Osho’s message.
Padmasambhav single handedly spread the teachings of the Buddha in Tibet, Sanghamitra and Mahendra revived Buddhism in Sri Lanka, in the same way, Nepal, too was waiting for a dedicated seeker, who would establish Osho’s vision in the beautiful land of the Himalayas.
“If you are ready,” he had told me, “Nepal is ready for me.”
He then reminded me lovingly the story of Bodhidharma, Padmasambhav and Sanghamitra and Mahendra again. These stories sounded like wonderful fables but that’s all. Myth lends a unique aura to history whereby the mind is ready to accept the surreal without questioning much. But here Osho was talking to me as though these fables waited to repeat in Nepal and that too through me? I didn’t doubt his vision but I doubted my own ability.
As though reading my mind, Osho told me, “When a disciple is ready to surrender, he transcends his personal boundary and limitation and the entire universe starts functioning through such people.”
Osho asked me what I enjoyed the most. I quipped immediately—travelling! In fact, after passing my ISc I had appeared for the aviation entrance exam as well. But my parents freaked out when they learnt this and did not let me appear for the interview. This way, my dream of becoming a pilot was terminated. Even as I was doing my engineering course, I had made up my mind to practice either in the Indian Railway or in an airline so that I could at least get free tickets to travel the world.
Osho chuckled and said, “Pilots don’t get to see the world, they just get to see the airports. You just make yourself worthy. When you are ready, I will take you around the world with my message. In every corner of the world there will be people who will receive you with great love. But for that you will have to make yourself worthy of that love first.”
The truth is, the wanderlust in me is so utterly satiated that I am looking forward towards the years of solitude and quietude. But it appears, Osho is hell-bent on annihilating the last seed of desire of travelling in me. So, despite my ageing body, Osho is still taking me around the world. Of course, as always, he was true about everything. Everywhere I go, I have been received as though I had been a part of their family, in such great love and warmth. I can see now why Osho laughed when I had told him I wanted to be a pilot; he has given me thousand fold than what I could have dreamt for myself.
I was thrilled to be in such close proximity of Acharyashree. He asked me a few questions and I answered them in detail. Hearing of my obsession with self-control, celibacy and my past religious journey, Acharyashree said in jest, “You have read the traditional religious books a little more than it was necessary. And you have been spoiled by these literature, it seems.”
Then he advised me to read his book, From Sex to Superconsciousness. The book was just released recently and had become instant sensation. The book retains its infamy to this day because most of the critics never read it beyond its title. But a few of those, who were lured by the title and read the book, were left disappointed because the book is entirely a treatise on the art of Samadhi.
As our conversation continued, he said, “I have started getting invitations from abroad as well. I will probably go to Nairobi in March.”
“Don’t go!” I heard myself say impulsively.
“Why?” Acharyashree was clearly bemused by my sudden outburst.
“Because once you start travelling, foreigners will lose no moment in recognising your worth. And it will be impossible for simple folks like us to meet you,” I said.
“See, this young man talks sense,” Acharyashree pointed at me and talked to the others who were in the room. “This is exactly what is going to happen.” Encouraged by his words I told him, “Please don’t go anywhere else in March. Please come to Kathmandu instead.” He looked at me intently and said, “Will you be able to organise it?” I was so overcome with love for him I overestimated my own strength. I told him, “My parents have a certain political background and they can help us organise something.”
Acharyashree said, “Okay, but I don’t prefer staying in a hotel so I will stay at your place.”
Those days, we used to live in a small rented flat in Putalisadak, Kathmandu. It was a small place and there was no way Acharyashree could live there. I described to him a little about my place and said it would be a better idea for him to stay in Paras Hotel at New Road, the only hotel of some standard in Kathmandu at the time. Acharyashree smiled and said, “I don’t need comfort, I need love. And the tears in your eyes are proof enough I will be happier at your place.”
I told him Nepal was not yet ready for a camp but we could definitely organise public discourses and personal meetings.
He smiled with that mysterious glint in his eyes and said, “You don’t know the potential of Nepal yet. If you are ready, Nepal is up for a great spiritual revolution.”
When I walked out of his room that day, the revolution had already begun.
That is classic hindsight rewriting of the past.
To me that is ominously hagiographic.
That it is happening already, in such a sentimental way. Phooey!!!
The Gospel according to St. Arun.
This is Swami Arun’s USP with like-minded Hindus!
Arun is following the classical Indian view, the hagiographical view, which says:
“What is essential for our gaze is the vision of the spirit`s soaring, not the oft repeated tragedy of its fall.”
Life is hard, and maybe in Nepal people are needing some superman stories, some enlightentertainment to get them through the night?
Yes, probably you’re right about that in Nepal & now dreams of travelling around the world are being fulfilled by probably the same kind of people ( needing “some superman stories, some enlightentertainment to get them through the night”?)!
I have heard Arun described by some as “a harmless old duffer”.
I am not so sure! Certainly lately his ego does not seem to be in check.
Yet another article relating to events long gone. Arun obviously has a big investment in painting Osho as the all-knowing sage, who could see everything past, present and future. Take the following statement: “Of course, as always, he was true about everything.” That is not only hype but also pure bullshit. Osho was wrong about many things and on reflection made untrue statements. The thing about speaking the truth is that it will inevitably become true. This is not the case with Osho. He said many things that did not become true.
I do not subscribe to this infallible image of Osho. If you do, you miss one of the great lessons of being around him. Anyone I hear proclaiming that Osho was, to once again quote Arun, true about everything, becomes suspect.
Perpetuating myths about Osho is often to be found amongst those who have a need to create such ideas for personal benefit. Some are so deluded that they actually believe the mumbo-jumbo they keep repeating is actually true. Ultimately, it does not really matter. The idea that you must be special because you had contact with someone special, be it true or false, is basically kid’s stuff.
Once again, there is talk about Osho’s vision, although little in the way of what that vision actually is and how it is being implemented. Arun concludes with the following: “He smiled with that mysterious glint in his eyes and said, “You don’t know the potential of Nepal yet. If you are ready, Nepal is up for a great spiritual revolution.” When I walked out of his room that day, the revolution had already begun.”
Obviously, Arun is still not ready, whatever that means, because Nepal remains one of the world’s basket-case countries. There is no revolution, inner or outer, taking place in Nepal. Nepal remains impoverished, filthy and bankrupt. I have two friends who have something to do with Nepal. From what they report it does not sound like Arun’s revolution, that began all those years ago, will be hitting the headlines any day soon. It all sounds like a dream he had some sunny day a long time ago.
That said, I do believe Arun does good actions and may actually be in some way or another helping people. Hats off to him on that level. As for him being some kind of an enlightened being…gimme a break, Jimmy. He is obviously living out something he needs to on that level, something which, I am sure, will appear pretty transparent to anyone with a little common sense.
Thanks for adding some more cooled down background to the first, more emotional outbursts – and don´t misunderstand me here: those from Arpana, I really also understand!
After all, we are reading kathmandupost.com., aren’t we?
You write, Lokesh: “I do not subscribe to this infallible image of Osho.”
I would say, that he, Osho, didn´t subscribe to that either!
Then, you write:
“Perpetuating myths about Osho is often to be found amongst those who have a need to create such ideas for personal benefit. Some are so deluded that they actually believe the mumbo-jumbo they keep repeating is actually true. Ultimately it does not really matter. The idea that you must be special because you had contact with someone special, be it true or false, is basically kid’s stuff.
Once again there is talk about Osho’s vision, although little in the way of what that vision actually is and how it is being implemented.”
Again, some statements of yours which one cannot deny. However, in my moments of better mood, that means less or even none of dissection or critical mind frame, I see some rare seeds well implanted and making their way to the winds and climates, neither knowing if they make it and sometimes not in a spontaneous way, which is the outcome of that special plant.
What I loved about your response are the finishing last line touches, to at least acknowledge some efforts of Arun to keep a Sangha feeling together. And maybe we all are asked to keep on to Trust, that some of the wisdom jewels He shared and left us will make it and survive the strong winds of collective emotional, mental and spiritual disturbances and challenges nowadays.
Madhu
P.S. to Lokesh:
And Lokesh, you have been rightly stating lately (about my posts here) “they have gangrene on it” (your response to Shantam the other day). I knew it from the moment I took courage to join here. I didn´t know, though, how such is treated. In a caravanserai like this.
What I also became aware of is that I am not the only one, neither here – nor elsewhere.
Maddie, did Lokesh really state, “They have got gangrene on it”?
He must have downed a few bottles of the old Buckfast tonic wine to have come up with a line like that.
This is actually an article about the present, written by someone who lives in the past in the present.
Lokesh, you should see the news article was published in Kathmandu Post and not in Washington Post.
You have written, “There is no revolution, inner or outer, taking place in Nepal.” It is far from truth. Country has fought long battle to make it democratic. To dethrone the thousand years old monarchy is not an easy job.
Just because you are in Ibiza does not mean some kind of extraordinary inner and outer revolution is taking place there too.
Could have been said by little ol’ me at some point. I rarely, very rarely, drink alcohol, although if it comes to it I can drink a bottle of whiskey and function perfectly well. When I was a nipper, my dear old mum used to give me a wee toddy at night if I had a cold and it seems I have built up an immunity to Scotland’s finest. 12 year-auld malt, if taken correctly, is a great gift to humanity.
Yeah, so like I have went from the most intoxicated to the most sober of chaps. That is, after having partaken of every mind-altering substance on the planet – well, just about. Is sobriety the greatest intoxicant?
“…well, just about. Is sobriety the greatest intoxicant?”
Yes, Lokesh, yes, I guess it is so – rightly taken….
With love,
Madhu
Also, sobriety is quite a radical act these days. And very possibly an act of defiance in the face of the medicalisation of life.
An interesting comment, Frank. I haven’t touched alcohol or done drugs for over thirty years, and never crossed my mind it was radical. Not even thought about it till now.
The biochemical focus of modern science re all things human, not just medicine, leads to the conclusion that anything can be achieved by altering chemistry.This has only just begun.
Research into treating `mental disorders` is already almost exclusively chemical-based.
Mothers give birth whacked out on painkillers, kids are medicated as soon as they are deemed to have a `problem`, everyone pops pills for the smallest ailment, chill-pills for any kind of anxiety or depression, hormones and Viagra to control your sex, steroids to beef you up to the right muscle tone, Botox injections to keep you young. Every surgical intervention relies on chemicals to put you out, bring you back, kill the pain.
When you`re on the way out, if you`ve gone a bit wacko you`ll be on anti-psychotics, if you get cancer you`ll get morphine. If you avoid that you`ll still be necking pills like smarties as you wait for the Grim Reaper.
And in between that, you can still find time to cram in booze, do illegal drugs, legal highs, smart drugs, stupid drugs, and watch a load of athletes on the telly running round in circles out of their heads on drugs!
That`s why I say staying straight is radical.
Maybe a kind of chemical dissent.
Hear Hear!
“The biochemical focus of modern science re all things human, not just medicine, leads to the conclusion that anything can be achieved by altering chemistry.
This has only just begun.” (Frank)
Thanks a lot, Frank, to put this into consideration here…as long as we are still able to focus our awareness. Or still able to consider at all. As – how I see it – this not only “has just begun”, but is a development into full gears by now.
And our data-generating neo-sannyas chat is a right spot, free to be taken use of by unknowables and also trolls of all kinds, a very good spot to just mention it.
And then – how we liked to say – leave it ´to Existence´, what becomes out of it, if we broaden the view on its ´players.
Any so-called spiritual consideration is rooted in its biochemical correspondences and it´s good to get to know about those, taking advantage of that with the means of sheer manipulation.
Inter-depedence.
Not just a word.
Thanks again, Frank.
Take care. Be well.
Same to me and everybody here.
A plea –
Madhu
I also find the need to find new experiences via dope, alcohol etc. no longer interesting. You just need to open your eyes to see that life is enough of a trip. Also, the life trip is so powerful I find it best to keep as clear as possible.
Once in a while I smoke a wee joint. I love how it makes the music sound, but feel stupid when going to the supermarket feels like a journey to the moon and I forget what it is I so desperately needed to purchase…six bars of chocolate, a can of coke and how about three bags of marshmallows, wow! we can make a campfire and toast them…fuck, I’ve lost my car keys…where the fuck did |I park the car anyway?
Who needs it?
Shantam says, “Just because you are in Ibiza does not mean some kind of extraordinary inner and outer revolution is taking place there too.”
Not the first time I have heard this kind of tired shite, from a man who is obviously frustrated with his own life and where he lives. It is not difficult to understand.
Meeting for the first time with Osho, 2016 Edition:
“I saw one quotation of Osho on facebook. Something happened, I was not the same. Some revolution has taken place. From that moment onwards, it has become a mission to share as many quotations of Osho as possible.
That which has happened to me can happen to someone else too. I am in bliss. I feel Osho´s presence. He is in me, he is everywhere!”
Can`t see what all the fuss is about.
Apparrently, there are 80,000 sannyasins in Nepal – and Osho foretold in 1986 that the country would “run red with the colours of my sannyasins.”
And Osho told Arun to do it – and he`s done a bloody good job of, it seems. Red clothes and malas everywhere in Nepal – last time I visited I kept running into them and the Nepali version of the Osho Times.
In a few hundred years, it’ll be like Tibetan Buddhism, with mala`ed neo-sannyasins buddhas blooming in their thousands, blowing horns and enquiring deeply into the after-death states.
Osho has been naughty – he told some people like Arun to start a movement and the way of devotion, whilst telling other people like his doctor that religion was crap and the way of aloneness was best.
Oh, well spotted, Shanti.✌️
Yep. He`s been giving contradictory messages to his people…
Yes, good post, Swamishanti, and what a beautiful creative graphic compilation is that…for another view on all the dynamics (of possible or impossible identifications).
You found the truth, SS. Osho has been naughty, Osho was naughty, whatever! I felt many times like kicking him…but, how one can not love him? Impossible! Cheers!
Good post, SS.
I have never been to Nepal till now but Nepali people I know since my childhood.
Most of the street night watchers in North India are from Nepal. They walk with their stick, a knife and a torch and walk in the neighbourhood from 9PM till 6 AM. During the sleep one can hear the sound of their footsteps and stick hitting the ground. I am sure, thieves don´t enter those streets where Gurkha is guarding.
For them, India is what Britain, Germany, Sweden is to Albanians, Polish and Romanian.
I also know Nepali Kids working as live-in house servants in many houses. Most of the time I have observed these Nepali children look more alive and smart than the house owners’ children. Yet, too much poverty in Nepal forces parents to send their children to India. At least they get enough food, shelter and real life experience as cooks. Many such kids become restaurant cooks after their in-house training.
Someone like me, who appreciates women´s beauty, I can without bias say, Nepali women are simply gorgeous. They are whitish-brown with healthy limbs and sharp features and virginity of mountains in their eyes. No wonder, many Nepali women become the premium in Indian brothels.
I must be about 19 or 20. Two friends invited me to come with them to Delhi´s famous GB Road. I was reading much literature and thought it is important to have first- hand experience with prostitutes if I want to write a masterpiece story. I told them, “I won´t do anything but I want to feel the atmosphere.”
One friend was quite often to one house. He was walking confidently and knew the women there. I think during those days one round was costing 50 Rupees.
Both of my friends picked their choice and went to the chambers. I was left scanning the atmosphere and the remaining three, four women.
One woman, I think the most beautiful one, the Nepali womAn called Durga, saw appreciation in my eyes so she came to me and asked, “It must be your first time here?”
I nodded my head. I told her, we have come with train from different town and I am first year law student etc. etc. I think i won´t forget ever when she said, “You are like my younger brother.” I feel it was one of the most beautiful moments of my life.
Now as a single, many times I think I should visit Arunji´s commune and find suitable Nepali life partner for me. If I go to India for wife-finding tour, Tapoban will remain in my options!
Reading your post, Shantam, I got the conclusion that you are a real Arun’s disciple, meaning, second to Osho.
Anyway, the Resort is not for social services, it is for the young generation, bear it in mind!
Now, tell us if there was incest or not? That explains a lot….
“it is for the young generation.”
I agree with that, Tan.
A base camp from which the journey begins,
Baby Tan, do you know in which country Pune exists?
Yes, very coy about the incest is young Shantam.
I suspect no incest occurred, his ego wold have been too strong not to say had it ‘happened’.
I was thinking to put this post on my facebook and ask friends, “What is your conclusion, has Shantam slept with Durga or not?”
Time and again, I wonder those who cannot get the meaning from my posts feel proud enough to deduce right meaning out of Osho´s mysterious ways.
This is one man fucking reason Sannyas has lost its momentum: Indian guru, western disciple – relation made out of misfit constellations!
In my eyes, the prostitute Durga has more dignity and understanding about human nature than Tan! Those who are victims of incest quite often hide their identity.
Is it not so?
MOD: man OR main?
There was an attempted revolution worth the name in Nepal by Maoists, some years ago. Many people on the breadline or below, and little by way of health services unless you have money, and little secure employment. Some kind of socialism, even if by the back door as in the UK after 1945, is actually the only solution, man is such a selfish and blinkered beast!
In Nepal, only a limited amount of reconstruction work has gone on since last year’s major earthquake, and many still struggle with its aftermath.
I guess Arun never sees or chooses to experience that side of Nepal, just the top two per cent of the population.
Parmartha, be objective and ask yourself, do 0.2 % per cent of Resort inhabitants care about the feelings and spiritual well-being of remaining 99.8 % of Sannyas population?
With his capacity Arun is doing what he can do. I think it is very, very unfair on your side to target someone not from your country.Why you don´t dare to comment about the contribution of British Swamis and Mas. Few of them were closest to our master?
Aye, Shantam is sniffing glue again. Round the back of Lidl, going through the trash with hardly a brain cell left to damage. He says, “very unfair on your side to target someone not from your country.”
Man, that raises a smile. Shantam is constantly targeting someone that is not from his country and misses every time.
Lokesh, people I am targeting are permanent Indian residents, the status acquired through sham marriages!
Oh dear. That bad. Ehm…er…take an aspirin and have a wee lie down.
Lokesh, don´t be smugger than what you are already.
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
You are utterly right to speak against these appalling racist foreigner peoples who have moved to another country and married locals in order to gain benefits of mother country!
They suck the lifeblood of local people and culture like drunken free-loading immigrant on rimming binge in red-light area!
Thanks God that you have the awareness to be objective enough to see exactly who these parasites are!
And also taking extremely heroic and effective action in the face of smug, stone-throwing, white-robe, white-skin, KKK lynchmobs on SN who cannot handle the truth, by continued writing of analingual prose outpourings!
Yahoo!
Yogi, you don’t lose your poetry: “immigrant on rimming binge in red light area” – bloody hell, Yogi, what would be inside your mind? Can you get out of it? If so, tell us how…but, please, not the meditation techniques business. Cheers!
Tan,
The art of writing poetry that speaks the wisdom of mighty Bhorat requires same approach as the art of rimming!
Tongue needs to be firmly in cheek!
Yahoo!
Jai Gandoo!
Cheeky bugger!
More bigoted racist drivel from 13 year-old Shantam.
Likening some of the poorest, most underprivileged people in the world to 99.98% of sannyasins is a rather foolish analogy, to put it mildly.
But Shantam’s determined to blame others for his unsatisfactory personal situation, thinking that he can only flourish in one particular set of special circumstances (that are long gone and most unlikely to recur in anything like their previous form anytime soon).
From such a flawed mental base further overwhelmingly specious assumptions and beliefs are bound to arise.
Until he sees this he’ll remain utterly confused, thoroughly f***ed (the latter not quite in the way he’d choose!).
I don’t think Osho Sannyas was ever about helping poor people. More like being totally selfish, and collecting as many Rolls Royces as possible.
The only time they tried helping any homeless people it was just because Sheela wanted to use them to rig the local elections (and don’t forget she put free drugs in their soup).
Plenty of Hari Krishnas around to give out the free rice and dahl. If Arun was doing that, the whole country probably really would turn red (or orange).
Mind you, I heard that the Maoists have visited Osho Tapoban.
SS, you misunderstand my point.
What Arun does is okay, though creating a religion is always dangerous, and well intended aims often give rise to unintended consequences.
There is always a danger of political revolution when elites simply forget the lot of “the people”. Arun was, and still is, very much a part of the ruling elite in Nepal.
Maoism is still a force in Nepal, and to ignore it and its roots, is a dangerous business.
Who knows what will happen? Only time will tell.
Osho himself spent a lot of time spending time with and staying in the houses of the Indian super-rich and the `elite`. And later of course, American multi-millionaires.
I don`t have any experience of Arun or his Tapoban. But I guess he`s just still doing whatever Osho told him to do back in the sixties or seventies, in the way of leading meditation camps and initiating people into Sannyas.
And Osho told many others to keep leading those camps (Whosoever, the photographer?).
Some people on SN in the past have said that Arun is a channel for Osho`s energy during the camps. I believe that Osho may have finally lost his body-mind and dissolved into Para Buddha Buddha – or Mahaparanirvana as the Tibetan buddhists love to call it. Plenty of them around up in Nepal.
So whoever has a heart connection can still connect to his presence – if that is the right way for them, of course.
That means that anyone will be able to have a connection with Osho and believe any interpretation of his message, as they please – even if these interpretations are completely contradictory. Osho won`t interfere in any way (and probably wouldn`t care anyway).
And no doubt there will be many interpretations and different flavours.
Here`s a video of the Maoist leader, visiting Tapoban:
https://youtu.be/vNeWbSHXaZI
Yes, SS, Osho was certainly himself part of the Indian elite in a way. He knew the Gandhis fairly well, and the ashram drama group played Shakespeare to Indira Gandhi.
But Osho was a bit different to his disciple Arun. He readily attacked establishment figures in India: Morai Desai, Gandhi himself, and so forth. And attacked them mercilessly. So that sort of fire-proofed him against any cohorting with the elite itself, as they knew not to trust him.
Parmartha, why you expect Arun to be like Osho? Is Dr. Amrito or dentist Devageet are attacking British Establishment?
These two gentlemen have sucked more divine energy from Osho than anyone else. Why don´t you make them accountable?
Dentist was also chosen as one faithful one in the inner circle of his beloved master. What role he has played till now? Ask your own people first, my friend.
Yes, the King of Nepal was supportive of Osho and met him in 1986, and was ready to allow Osho to build his commune there.
But only on one condition: that Osho didn’t talk against Hinduism. Osho refused this request.
Not sure whether that king is still around now – didn’t the majority of the Nepali royal family get murdered at some point?
Anyway, it would be difficult for any spiritual group or movement left over after a master has departed to really be as critical or dismissive of all other approaches if they were taking some of Osho’s ideas completely literally.
You might end up with narrow-minded fanatics like IS., and an ugly situation where no other beliefs were tolerated.
Hinduism has had a tendency to absorb any new masters and beliefs into its fold, and this has happened with Islam too, mainly where it is co-existing harmoniously most of the time, even merging together in certain ways.
I remember coming across a church in Chennai that was blasting out bhajans, Hindu style, and was topped by flashing coloured electric bulbs and lights that made it appear more like a Hindu temple.
Images of Jesus flash by on buzzing autorickshaws, next to other autos carrying images of Shirdi Sai Baba. Osho’s books appear in the bookstalls next to books about Mother Theresa.
So this diversity and melting pot style is perhaps where Arun is coming from.
Thanks for this considering of some facts here, Swamishanti.
And yes, there has been murder in the royal field in Nepal.
And also I´d like to add that the Hindu tolerance is not streched out to include any Muslim sects or groups. Every now and then murderous riots between Hindus and Muslims. Wherever.
But what you shared about the live and let live´very multi-coloured scenes is known.
You otherwise make a point here with:
“Anyway, it would be difficult for any spiritual group or movement left over after a master has departed to really be as critical or dismissive of all other approaches if they were taking some of Osho’s ideas completely literally.”
I ´d like to say in such a context that He didn´t want clone copies of Himself. Never. And left it to Existence, more like a gardener, a gardener who might not see what comes out of it, after having done His very, very best.
And I know this sounds romantic, especially after all these numerous thread topics discussed here, piling up, quite one inconvenience after another. That being very much connected with our understanding/misunderstanding as also the social, politcal and clerical climate issues all around.
But basically that is my feeling, that it needs to be looked at, like looking on a garden and that we don´t know, neither individually nor collectively.
And a garden is always a living processing, no moment like the next. And we are part of it. And will constantly disappear in it, and some day and hour with all the forms we have taken there.
And then, we also don´t know. Not really.
Saturday evening by now. The weather forecast has been wrong. Instead of heavy rain clouds the sky is bright, as bright it can be, the families here have done their shopping and their kids are home from their play.
Gorgeous gap of utter silence
Just now
Just the birds to listen to
Tiny little, hard to see movements of little spring breezes in the fresh greenery.
One really has to sharpen – better say relax – the focus of the eyes to see them.
Some fragrances of the early summer
The window is open….
Madhu
“And yes, there has been murder in the royal field in Nepal.”
Yes, Madhu, I remember reading about that somewhere.
You add:
“And also I´d like to add that the Hindu tolerance is not streched out to include any Muslim sects or groups. Every now and then murderous riots between Hindus and Muslims. Wherever.”
Yes, occasionally it does happen, people get stupid and the egos come out, but my own experience of being in India is that they are mostly living together perfecting harmoniously and respectfully, in a very non-sectarian way.
The call of the mosque is always a beautiful complement to the sounds of the day.
And I have many muslim friends who love to play Holi, throwing of colours.
I have a muslim friend who keeps goats and chickens, he has two wives and many children. I remember talking with him shortly after the events of Sept. 11th, about how he felt about it all. “Indian muslim not political” – his simple reply.
Some of Indian Sufism has also developed out of a kind of fusing of Islam and Hinduism.
And Islam has also fused with Indian classical music too, some of these vocal styles and singers are simply breathtaking. Apparently, Osho used to listen to records of some of these singers every day.
“And yes, there has been murder in the royal field in Nepal.”
Yes, Madhu, I remember reading about that somewhere. You add:
“And also I´d like to add that the Hindu tolerance is not streched out to include any Muslim sects or groups. Every now and then murderous riots between Hindus and Muslims. Wherever.”
Yes, occasionally it does happen, people get stupid and the egos come out, but my own experience of being in India is that they are mostly living together perfectly harmoniously and respectfully, in a very non-sectarian way.
The call of the mosque is always a beautiful complement to the sounds of the day. And I have many Muslim friends who love to play Holi, throwing of colours and paint.
I have a Muslim friend who prays five times a day and keeps goats and chickens, he has two wives and many children. I remember talking with him shortly after the events of Sept. 11th, 2001 and the US invasion of Afghanistan, about how he felt about it all. “Indian Muslim not political” – his simple reply.
Some of Indian Sufism has also developed out of a kind of fusing of Islam and Hinduism.
And Islam has also fused with Indian classical music too, some of these vocal styles and singers are simply breathtaking. Apparently, Osho used to listen to records of some of these classical singers every day at one period of his life.
SS,
Luckily, despite sectarian nonsense, music tends to mix and find new ways because it is not constrained by anyone who thinks they own it.
That`s how church singing could morph into rock ‘n’ roll and onwards in a matter of just a few years.
Thank bog for that!
Music, yes, but not those who run UK cathedrals, it seems. Here’s what a friend of mine said today:
“Spend next week in Salisbury, pretending to be a Christian and singing all services in Salisbury Cathedral, for four days.
The cathedral world is one unto its own. This will be my seventh. Very weird and odd people who run these strange places as personal fiefdoms in which nothing appears to have changed since the Reformation. The irony is that the music can be so beautiful.
I’ll just have to be respectful and straight-laced! O:-)”
Religion and the people it attracts, eh? Doncha just luv it all?!
The video of Maoists visiting Tapoban in 2013 was interesting in that it showed the leader looking bored most of the time, and caught looking at his watch. Not sure why he would want some kind of alliance with Arun. The meeting seemed to me to be full of false laughter on both sides.
The Maoists came third in the last election in Nepal, a long way behind their 2008 standing when the monarchy was dissolved.
Personally, I don’t really like church music. Don’t think it runs anywhere near as deep as Indian classical.
I guess Sam Lucas might disagree.
Still, Rastas have done very good things with biblical tones, but then blacks always do good things with music.
SS,
By church music morphing into rock `n`roll, I meant the development of gospel in the US, which of course had plenty of African input too.
English church music.
Omg!
Reminds me of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfMEtl26G1E
“Light upon light…
Sound upon sound…
Ah, ah, ah, ah, Ahlejujah!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToNb-02n3KY
I have just been watching an episode of ‘Family Guy’ called: ‘Brian the Closer.’
In which Brian Griffin becomes a real estate salesman and tricks Glenn Quagmire into buying a worthless, run-down property that nobody else wants.
It’s tempting to read Arun’s article as Osho ‘flogging’ him Nepal, while he, himself, would one day be off to America.
Just came back from the naturist lake and here I see a white mob getting together to lynch the one who provokes their kind of sentimental spirituality; very bogus, miles long and no depth, yet full of smugness.
After scanning all the posts of the day, my regard grew even more for Parmartha. The post in the morning was addressed to him. He has read it, maybe contemplated over my point. He has not answered it yet and totally unrelated people came forward to hurl stones.
In a way, people like Parmartha would be encouraged to be in the leadership position at revived Osho Commune International. I have not seen him misusing his position as editor. I mean, many times I have contradicted him, sometimes with rudeness, yet in a true spirit of independent and unbiased journalism, he has given due space to those posts too.
I appreciate this maturity of his spirit. When I appreciate something I appreciate really from the core of my heart.
Stop your whining, Shantam, you adolescent fool.
Show some gratitude.
You wallow in the attention and love to feel a victim.
It sounds like Osho was correct to say: “You don’t know the potential of Nepal yet. If you are ready, Nepal is up for a great spiritual revolution.”
More than 80,000 sannyasins in Nepal is a good start…and I give credit to Arun for the work he has done. Buddhism has been around for millenia. The seed of neo-Sannyas has just been planted by Osho a short time ago. Fruit already appearing. Yahoo!
What`s the difference between the religion-loving sannyasins and those who think religion is a dirty word, of which the divide on SN is clear?
Is it just upbringing/conditioning?
Shantam was obviously brainwashed by the turbanators and has brought his baggage and what`s left of his brain with him, swapping chuddies for mala (altho` I suspect he`s still wearing those holey old things).
Samarpan – a penny to a pound says that you had good ol` time religion banged into you as a nipper and it’s still coming out in your pro-religion viewpoint?
That`s why they do all those weird things like chopping the end of your dick off, so as you can`t get away – and even if you do, you`ll just end up with some bunch of jokers who chop another part off, or whatever.
Religion, eh?
Bloody `ell!
Frank, the irony is that the anti-religion folk have created/imputed religious status to neo-Sannyas, which is a complete misunderstanding of what Osho is up to. Osho took measures to intentionally frustrate any effort to create a religion out of neo-Sannyas.
I give credit to anyone who embraces neo-Sannyas, even if imperfectly with trappings of an earlier religious upbringing. Embrace imperfection, frank. We are doing the best we can.
What about those who, like Shantam, think Sannyas is essentially supposed to be a new religion and, apparently, won’t be satisfied until that’s what it unequivocally becomes? Why don’t you ever address him directly on this matter, Samarpan?
1) I don’t know him well enough to judge.
2) Whatever they have been I respect his life choices (which grew out of his life situation).
3) I don’t want to participate in a holy war of the type I witness week after week, a boring group psycho-jihadist attack on Shantam.
A rather ‘holier than thou’ response that simply avoids the question, Samarpan – but not altogether surprising given the general tendency of many of your contributions here.
Response 1 is just pure bullshine. You’ve been around SN for quite a while and by now you surely must have grasped the general import of Shantam’s posts, overwhelmingly repetitious as they are.
Response 3 is more of the same. No one has invited you to a “holy war” or what you laughably term a “psycho-jihadist attack”. The criticisms that you apparently deem to be ‘unsavoury’, ‘beneath’ you, unworthy of your participation or detailed comment, are honest responses to someone who, if he had his way, would like to dominate this place with his own one-pointed predilections and propaganda, at the expense of all other issues and concerns.
Why? Because he’s clearly unhappy with his lot, blaming others and external ‘circumstances’.
That, plus a recurring stupidity that almost beggars belief at times, given his years of exposure to Osho’s energy in the Pune buddhafield. Don’t you see all this?
Which, by the way, is not to say that I or anyone else have no sympathy for him, given the situation he’s got himself into, or that people here wish him harm. I suggest the opposite is the case.
As for response 2, the question is not about “his life choices”, in fact it goes far beyond one person’s concerns, as it relates to one specific area: Sannyas and ‘religion’.
I’ll repeat the question:
“What about those who, like Shantam, think Sannyas is essentially supposed to be a new religion and, apparently, won’t be satisfied until that’s what it unequivocally becomes?”
Satyadeva:
“What about those who, like Shantam, think Sannyas is essentially supposed to be a new religion.”
I answered this question already, in the previous post, by saying it is “a complete misunderstanding of what Osho is up to. Osho took measures to intentionally frustrate any effort to create a religion out of neo-Sannyas.”
To satisfy you, do I need to join your psycho-jihad attack and name Shantam explicitly?
Yes, I realise you wrote that, Samarpan. And you also wrote, “the irony is that the anti-religion folk have created/imputed religious status to neo-Sannyas, which is a complete misunderstanding of what Osho is up to.”
Why cite only “the anti-religion folk”, leaving out the ‘pro-religionists’? Why let off the latter so lightly, implying (yesterday, 5.52pm and 10.37pm) they ‘can’t really help it’, they’re not really responsible for completely misunderstanding their master, despite having been around him for many years, as they’re merely the victims of their prior socio-religious conditioning? (I wonder what Shantam thinks about that. Perhaps he might regard it as patronising crap? Over to you, Shantam).
It would be useful for this whole debate if you, Samarpan, were to spell out precisely what measures Osho took “to intentionally frustrate any effort to create a religion out of neo-Sannyas”, especially as these don’t appear to have frustrated the wishes and efforts of the likes of Shantam (who claims, by the way, to have legions of like-minded ‘followers’ on facebook).
After all, if, as you say, Osho was dead set against his movement becoming anything like a religion then why not point this out very clearly, with relevant detail, to those who prefer to think otherwise, instead of remaining silent?
And why tolerate rank stupidity, especially when it wants to take over an entire public platform like this one?
I suggest you apply the term “psycho-jihad attack” to those who propagate what is fundamentally irresponsible unintelligence to serve the agenda of ‘religion’, rather than using such absurd hyperbole about others’ responses to this stupid (and by the way, potentially dangerous) non-sense.
Satyadeva, enjoy your psycho-jihad and its karmic harvest….
Ah, so you resort to a neat little variation on the old “You’ll go to Hell!” threat – a little more sophisticated of course, but on basically similar lines…perhaps even verging towards the “psycho-jihadist”…Frank seems to have been right about your inbuilt ‘religious’ tendencies, Samarpan.
Avoiding the issues when in a corner and taking refuge in convenient cliches and psycho-spiritual sloganising, eh? You have much in common with Shantam!
Better ask Osho for some advice….
Samarpan – 3rd up in the red robes.
And watch out for John Hogue at the end…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmyuE0NpNgE
Frank,
John Hogue at the end???
“Anyway, the Resort is not for social services, it is for the young generation, bear it in mind!” (Tan)
Arpana says:
” “It is for the young generation.”
I agree with that, Tan.
A base camp from which the journey begins.”
Would these two great disciples be kind enough to tell in which discourse they have read something like:
“My Resort will be a base camp from which the journey begins. My Resort will not be for social service but for young generation.”
P.S:
Just now listening ‘Beyond Psychology’, discourse 7. In this discourse Osho envisions concept of commune. Sorry, Resort!
‘Beyond Psychology’ talks were given in Uruguay, when Osho was 55 years of age and has already the experience of creating an ashram and a city.
Arpana must listen this talk. If he thinks I am 13 at 53, his talkative Indian guru must be only 15!
That you would attempt to rationalise your adolescent nonsense, by attempting to make some kind of connection between yourself and Osho, which you have tried to do before, is all part of your immaturity.
SS, the pink photo you shared seems so true. One thing common between them is how these two have managed to reach the commoners; of course, most probably, at least in Amrito’s case, seems unintentionally through Sodexco!
Now I am wondering if intentions are more dangerous than unintentions (this is a new word coined by me)! There is no way out anyway!
SS says:
“Yes, the King of Nepal was supportive of Osho and met him in 1986, and was ready to allow Osho to build his commune there.
But only on one condition: that Osho didn’t talk against Hinduism. Osho refused this request.”
Good point, SS.
The monarchy was abolished in 2008, though the place is sometimes called the ‘Kingdom of Nepal’!
The current population of Nepal is said to be around 24 million. Quite a high density given such a mountainous country. Arun claims 80,000 sannyasins, well, that figure has been disputed as they are mainly what we used to call in Medina, weekend sannyasins! Bit of wish fulfilment going on there to say it is approaching a state religion!
Eighty thousand Nepali sannyasins do not seem exuberant figure. Resort and Delhi people may hate each other but on one figure both agree, “Millions of Osho lovers and disciples.”
“Arun claims 80,000 sannyasins.”
What that implies is anyone’s guess. Being ‘initiated’ by Osho was quite a whacky event with plenty of fireworks. Well, at least back in the day when real contact with Osho was possible. Being initiated by Arun could only be a damp squib, going from what little I have seen on vids.
I suppose everyone has to start somewhere. What is being started is not so clear. One time I was invited to go along to some turbaned Sikh wallah’s satsang. The guy was a chump. Comes up to me and starts rubbing his hand on my forehead. Then he asks me if I saw colours. I replied, “no”. “Don’t worry, you soon will”, he said. It wasn’t true.
I reckon Arun is a small step above that sort of shite. So what, none of my business.
Arun claims 80,000 sannyasins. Lokesh claims 3 cats.
Jury has decided to give Lokesh Lifetime Achievement Award of being Nicest Smug!
Shantam, labelling me as smug seems to be one of your latest obsessions. The old Hitler trick, keep repeating a simple lie and soon people will believe it. So, just for the record, I have always viewed smugness, contented complacency, as a negative quality in a person’s character and thus I never went for feeling smug.
Ultimately, none of it matters because qualities such as smugness belong to personality, a false construct that the average Joe, I suspect, like yourself, imagines to be who they are. Shantam, I often wonder how someone like yourself, a torch carrier for what you imagine Osho to represent, could have missed his main messages entirely. I suppose that is your business not mine.
I will take it a little further, in order to clarify what I am trying to convey to you. Any real spiritual teacher worth their salt, will have as a foundation to their teaching the idea that the inner change is the only one worth nurturing. This means in effect that if we work to develop our inner world the outer will follow suit. Most people, like yourself, believe it works in quite the opposite way.
You have made this abundantly clear by posting the kind of nonsense you post here on SN. For instance, your ideas about how the Resort in Poona should be run. Even were it all to go your way it would only change how you feel in the most superficial of ways. This is because you project how you feel onto the screen of life.
If you actually listened and followed Osho’s advice you would stop what you are doing immediately because you would see how foolish it is and a complete waste of time. Unfortunately, you will not. The reason for this is that you are at heart totally identified with a set of negative emotions that feed on your psychic energy like a host of vampires. You are not alone in this. Nearly everyone does that.
Having some contact with a pretty enlightened man like Osho could have pulled you out of your negative state, but it has not. When Osho says humanity is asleep what do you think he means? He would not be telling you to wake up were it not necessary, now would he?
In essence, you represent the opposite of what Osho taught, in that you firmly believe that by changing something on the outside it will change how you will feel on the inside.
You are wasting your precious time on this planet, especially so because you were given a chance to wake up and you have not implemented it. Remember, it is better not to set out on the path if you are not committed to the journey, something which you have shown many times on SN.
In the end, none of this matters because personalities come and go by the second in this world. God, life, the whole, loves us so much it has given us the gift of being responsible for developing our potential. We exist in seed form. Some seeds fall on barren ground, others on fertile. It has always been so and will remain so. It is such a challenge to develop.
Shantam, you have chosen the booby prize by striving to change that which is external to you and thus you will never attain any kind of lasting peace in your life…unless the understanding dawns and you actually begin to work on yourself, having seen the error of your ways. It is up to you.
This is what bloody smugness is, others have missed the message and I have not missed it. Very unrefined and almost like ‘penny wise, pound foolish’.
Good, Lokesh, you did not miss the main message – enjoy and feel puffed up. This is what I call smugness, not even this much self-doubt: “Maybe I have not understood. Maybe I have heard what I wanted to hear.”
Without being rude, I can say you lack refinement. Naturally, a big fish in a small pond is wiser than the small fish in a big sea.
Yesterday, one follower of Osho´s brother wrote a comment: “He feels surprised, those who claim to have spent years around Osho have not understood the real message.”
I replied, “Think in this way: even people closer to Osho missed the so-called real message – now think what is going to be the fate of bookworms.”
Shantam, it is obvious that I am also wasting my time. In my case, trying to show you something that you have no desire to be shown. Really, I have better things to do. My response was genuine and had nothing whatsoever to do with being smug, but rather saying what I believe to be true, and yes, I know it is all relative.
Your confused state of mind is really none of my business. As I said earlier, it is up to you. Good luck with that.
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
(Douglas Adams)
Maybe I should make it clear about the word ‘smug’.
Among all the bloggers here, Lokesh, you are the only one from the West I know personally and planned our journey to Ibiza last year with the intention to meet you also. To describe you as smug is the last to the last word I can think about.
Through our writings we create some kind of public persona, sometimes this public persona is more enlightened than the person really is, another side is also true, people who play the villain are not bad in the real life, whereas hero can be a little mousy in reality.
So from your posts, which are true to your natural sign Sagittarius: they feel smugly as most of the sannyasins behave, including me, somewhere better than the masses.
So I will deeply regret if the word smug has touched you as a person. How your words touch me, I stay with my observation: sometimes they are inspiring, motivating, and sometimes they sound puffy.
“Shantam, labelling me as smug seems to be one of your latest obsessions.”
Just keep in mind it is a light-hearted tease, it was never written to put you down. Moreover, my obsession towards you is not that extreme as Arpana´s obsession towards me!
It is not bad to remember, big animals in jungles always provoke some kind of reaction! In the world of Sannyas, it is a law of jungle, where who has the stick has the cow!
“It is not bad to remember, big animals in jungles always provoke some kind of reaction!”
Laughable self-importance highlighted again here. Sheer delusion.
Shantam writes at 10.50am, in response to Lokesh’s “labelling me as smug seems to be one of your latest obsessions”:
“Just keep in mind it is a light-hearted tease, it was never written to put you down.”
Which came just 6 minutes after this:
“This is what bloody smugness is, others have missed the message and I have not missed it. Very unrefined and almost like ‘penny wise, pound foolish’.
Good, Lokesh, you did not miss the main message – enjoy and feel puffed up. This is what I call smugness.”
And 10 minutes before describing Lokesh thus:
“What a self-blinded smug.”
He seems rather confused, which is what blind rage tends to do to people, especially when their whole self-created belief and value systems are or are perceived to be under attack, which is clearly the case here, demonstrated by the very ferocity of his reactions.
Thing is, the shakiness of such self-created ‘foundations’ is easily gauged by the degree of resistance generated by in-depth criticism (or indeed, more or less any criticism), there being a direct correlation between the two. Think religious fundamentalists for an obvious example.
Which implies that at some level the ‘enraged one’ well knows he’s on flawed ground, although he’ll do his utmost to hide from that truth, potentially life-shaking as it might well be.
Now, of course, Shantam, you will reject all this as ‘psychological nonsense’, ‘white-skin prejudice’, or any other convenient catchphrase that comes to your froth-filled brain. Or, you might decide to play it cool and say it’s ‘unworthy of comment’. Or you’ll simply ignore it, as you often do when you sense ‘trouble’ you think you can’t easily cope with.
What you won’t be doing is really having a good, sustained look at what’s put to you, to see whether there just might be even a grain or two of truth in there, somewhere. But until you do, you’ll continue as the author of your own, apparently considerable, suffering – and continue to blame others and external circumstances, which is, in case you haven’t realised it yet, a position of inbuilt powerlessness, itself a source of chronic discontent and its psychic co-habitees, pain and rage.
As one modern master used to say, “You write your own ticket”. Unfortunately, I suspect this particular “ticket” is one written by a majority of ‘religionists’, however ‘well meaning’ they might be, and which is ultimately a major cause of the inevitable descent of their pet enterprises into unintelligent, priest-fuelled dogma and the rest of the sort of built-in contentious crap that’s coming to a head in our lifetime.
To paraphrase Shakespeare, “A plague on all their churches!”
Yes, SD, all true. People cling to their negativity and will fight to prove that they are right and always wish to have the last word. Nothing new there.
“People who curse others cannot have lasting peace, now and ever” – I think this is what religions teach.
Lokesh is using Christian analogies to prove his great Osho skills. Unaware ego rucksack feels pissed off when others take pot shots on him. He can name and shame anyone without any regret, any remorse. What a self-blinded smug.
Read your post again, Lokesh. If you can see, then see how rude and parasitical priest like you are preaching. This is not the way when one´s ego feels punctured. With these kind of people, I don´t think I wish to communicate on any level.
MOD: unaware ego rucksack? PLEASE EXPLAIN, SHANTAM!
“Unaware ego rucksack feels pissed off when others take pot shots on him…This is not the way when one´s ego feels punctured.”
Do you ever apply such wisdom to yourself, Shantam?
“unaware ego rucksack” can be a new addition in spiritual urban language. It is that rucksack which we all carry on our backs therefore cannot see without the mirror.
Unaware ego rucksack can be used to play superior, the way ashram people used to say, “You are in your mind, Ma”, “Swami, you need to do some dynamic, man.”
“Being initiated by Arun could only be a damp squib, going from what little I have seen on vids.”
Is this not smugness? Man is doing something with his good intentions and capacities. He could have played Independent guru also, he is pouring his heart out and some Scottish with Indian names goes on reminding others, “Dick of my master was so long.”
What great contributions people have made who were being touched by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh? Most of them simply spitted in the soup. This is the only reason, goodwill of Osho and his product is on nadir in the West.
Arun in his own world is trying to live his passion and serving people.
What shitty contributions adolescent Shantam has made after meeting Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh? Simply spitted in the soup. This is the only reason, well, plus lots of other reasons, no one at Sannyas News is fooled by his babyish tantrums.
”Yesterday, one follower of Osho´s brother wrote a comment: “He feels surprised, those who claim to have spent years around Osho have not understood the real message.” ”
Is this an implication towards Osho’s brother ?
This is Sixer by Kavita.
Did not think in this way before.
Your bowling does get boring, then most of the time you are delivering bouncers and many batsmen take the advantage & hit boundaries & sixers. In such cases one has to either retire from such bowling or become an all-rounder, otherwise bear with runs given away!
Kavita, what a terrific post.
Not because of the connection to him, but you used the metaphor with such finesse. A verbal painting. If you had said that to me because you were annoyed at me, I would have had to say bravo.
(I’m reading a book about metaphors. ‘I is another’ by James Geary, so I’m really attuned to use some of them in anyone’s language at the moment, written or spoken).
Thank you, Arps. Yes, somehow metaphoric usage is so very intertwined in our daily lives too.
Actually, I have started watching cricket after nearly 14 years or so, it’s my first Indian IPL series, matches are on now, today is the final match. I am amazed how they have players of not only different Indian States but also international players in one team which are owned by private companies.
I was just telling my friend Sangita about this and she said this is just like us sannyasins. For a short while we just felt a bit egoistic about being sannyasins!
I think you nailed it, Kavita.
I also heard that when he was young, Shantam tried to play the field and he might have managed to place his short leg in the crease a couple of times, but I doubt whether he ever managed to bowl a maiden over, altho` he is definitely the master of the wrist spin and the full toss and his middle stump has taken quite a beating, for sure.
But at the end of the day, sadly, it seems to be a case of `brain stopped play`.
Actually, Frank, he had shared that he himself had a status of a maiden-over when he came to Osho and then, after a lot of effort, he gave up his maiden-over status and later became quite an expert run-giver, which he continues, probably, but in a different sense!
@ Shantam
I am looking for the post where you compare me with your “sister” Durga, and comparing me with her, you say that “she has more dignity” than me. Well, I can not find this post any more. What happened?
What I can tell you is that it is your first post that I really laughed, a laughter compared to Yogi’s posts. Why I laughed I don’t know. Your imagination runs wild…
It’s none of my business, but you should listen attentively to McLoke, Satyadeva and Arps. They mean well. Cheers!
Tan says, “It’s none of my business, but you should listen attentively to McLoke, Satyadeva and Arps. They mean well.”
Yes, Tan, I also believe that to be true. I drop it now. More fruitful activities in my life to attend to and harbour no wish to waste any more time trying to explain certain things to Shantam. The man is not entirely stupid and has a good heart, but in essence he is overly identified with negative aspects of his psyche. Not my problem.
Please, don’t drop it. Mind you, we all have a bit of ‘Shantanism’ in us. So, all that hammering is very enlightening. Carry on! XXX
Can you share, Tan, what very much ´enlightens´ you, with all that ´hammering´, as you say? Whereas I am with you with your remark “we have all a bit of ‘Shantamism’ in us”. That´s a basic line.
Funny that a pic comes into my mind, which some time ago, Prem Martyn published here:
It’s a very decent-looking upper class view, outdoors, two ladies sitting in nice comfortable chairs watching…what?.
And some decent-looking guys around standing, equally with their focus only seemingly somewhere else – like from the last or the one before the last century…like some cricket public viewing or golf viewing place.
Do you remember ?
Madhu
Hi Madhu,
I was just saying, more or less, that we can learn from every post, mainly the hammering of Shantam, because we can see in ourselves what the guys are saying, in a certain way.
No, I don’t remember this post from PM: “upper class view”? “cricket”? “golf?” Nah…can’t relate to this stuff. Cheers!
I appreciate today, that you come out a little bit more, Tan, as I am interested in what you have to say. I mean besides chilling some of the guys.
And according to “hammering”, well, I would say one hammering gives the other…regularly in the course of quite some time now, those whose counsel you recommend, declaring, “So, so, so…I am fed up…I don´t want to deal with this and that any more” – and then what?
After a little while the same old rotten game starts again. And the way that works is kind of suffocating the Chat: first, the interest in a Chat topic, then the energy as a whole.
The post of PM was an ironically set of playmate PM (MOD: WHAT DOES THAT HALF-SENTENCE MEAN, PLEASE, MADHU?) and a kind of metacommunication like much is happening here.
And I don´t know why that came into my mind today. It was not meant as a one-to-one historical, just a pic.
But we can forget it now happily, both of us.
Cheers too,
Madhu
P.S. for Moderators and Tan:
Another try:
I experienced Prem Martyn often in the Chat as if he was playing a joker in a no-house-on-no-cards (playmate).*
Btw, Tan, he loved your understanding of some of his double-speak and did mention that. Not only once.
Me, more simple-minded and sometimes humourless, could feel him the best, the frailty of his being, when he sent us a song, shared about his whirling, his time in Koshuan or quoting Vasclav Havel….
Cheers to all,
Also to Prem Martyn,
Madhu
*MOD:
SORRY, MADHU, WE STILL DON’T GET IT!
BY THE WAY, A NEW POST BY PREM MARTYN HAS JUST BEEN PUT UP HERE (‘Holy Thursday’ topic, May 29, 11.21pm)
Sorry, Moderators,
If that is so, then I have to leave it to (how do we say?)…Existence….
MOD:
WELL, HOW VERY MYSTERIOUS! DOES no-house-on-no-cards REFER TO THE TERM a house of cards?
Madhu,
Give me a metaphor for Sannyas News. ✌
Madhu,
You are just missing PM here in SN, which is very understandable, his posts are great!
He is back now, so, enjoy! XXX
Hello Ma Tan Sunder,
I don´t address my words to faceless friend. This right is reserved only for God. So I create an imaginary character, Ma Tan Sunder. Tan means: the brown colour produced by the skin after intensive exposure to ultra-violet rays, esp those of the sun. Sunder means: beautiful, gorgeous.
The answer of Prostitute Durga post has been deleted by the editor. It is ok. We are not some kind of Oshos where words need to be preserved and nothing else. “(SEE MOD’S NOTE)
One thing I can tell your western mind in Tanned skin, Nepali or Indian prostitutes don´t indulge in sex trade to buy sports cars as some of the German girls do. It is dignified helplessness and they support their parents and siblings back home. Maybe you are aware in my country and Arun´s country there is no social security, there is no unemployment allowance.
The women coming from such background don´t know the role playing and if she said to me “younger brother”, no amount of money can persuade her to fulfil customers´s fantasy.
I feel privileged that she gave me the dignity by calling me “brother”. I will cherish for life this relation with my prostitution sister Durga, I met and spoke not more than few minutes, thirty five years ago.
*MOD:
APOLOGIES, SHANTAM, THIS POST (MAY 27, 11.51pm) WAS TRASHED IN ERROR AND IS NOW PUBLISHED.
Shantam, you can imagine me the way you want and do whatever you want, it is none of my business. I just ask you not imagining me doing any Bollywood dance, please, nooooooo…
I know very well the plight of women from the poor countries, it starts when they are kids. Who to blame? Are you doing something about it?
Only a naive Indian man to come with all this mambo jambo about a prostitute calling him “brother”. Have you ever thought that she knew you didn’t have any money and just dismissed you in a very clever way? Next!
Again a very clever western mind.
In India, you can tell from the face a person´s social standing.
Anyway, clever lady, what is your Sannyas name?
@ Arps
Loved your photo so much! That is my kind of place…
Why you don’t see yourself as an artist? You are! XXX
I sat on a log for half an hour in the mist, listening to birdsong, Tan. Bliss.
I don’t identify with being an artist in the way I think Madhu meant. It’s not an image for others. Painting and writing are something I am into, something I actively engage with and very much part of my being connected to Osho, rather than something to flaunt.
You did ask me for a metaphor for ´Sannyas News´, Arpana, the other day, but there was no response button, only these facebook victory finger symbols (I don´t like that much).
But I like to share that I not only read your long quote about the tyranny of structurelessness as also have been looking insight to respond to your request.
This morning, I threw the dice for an I Ching, to find a metaphor, and I´ve been so amazed about the outcome when asking about SN (now) with the help of the Chinese Book of Changes (I use the Richard Wilhem book):
SN -´now´
There appeared TAI = peace (Hexagram 11)
(with a nine at the bottom)
SN ´in the changes´
There appeared SCHONG = the uprising
(Hexagram 46)
I don´t want to bore anybody here, but you may be content with your victory fingers??
And I am sure, in a way, that you know about this Book of Changes yourself and may read yourself what is written there about this outcome….
I was amazed.
Madhu
P.S:
Found that your shared pic of your silent temporary morning meditation place would be the best spot for this response, better than other spots, SN.
MOD:
DO YOU MEAN THE SATURDAY MORNING PLACE IN NORTH LONDON, MADHU?
Yes, I did mean that ‘misty´ place of some early dawn, moderators. Somewhere.
Pretty wonderful. The I Ching reading, that is. Sannyas news is very alive.
(I used the peace sign to make the post more personal).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZMjBO6A7AE
Is there anything else about that I Ching metaphor?
Yes, Arpana, there is more – moment to moment…for example, that “change is all that is”…and also lots of hints in every one of the hexagrams re some important issue you yourself brought in at the very beginning here of this thread topic-chat, dealing as well with the ´tyranny of structurelessness´, but more the ancient Chinese way, not the way of some scoring feminst-anti-feminist scientific revelations of nowadays.
Much broader the view of this in the I Ching as counselling agent or oracle, and in its role of reminding.
And as the soil needs some gardening skills, if we want to culture it, human communication needs that as well.
Madhu
P.S:
How can we become natural and playful AND yet playing ´communication´, not in a way together with any war resembling attitudes?
A Quest – not only for individuals but also for groups and collective intelligence or vice versa, to consider the danger of utter collective stupidity and not rarely, collective cruelty.
The collective Intelligence, as also considering collective Emotional Intelligence of living together, are parts of the I Ching. That´s what I love about it.
Being lectured on playfulness and communication skills by Madhu is not entirely dissimilar to getting sex-tips from the Pope!
Is there any more about that metaphor you might like to say, Frank?!
That’s no metaphor, it’s an analogy!
8 years in the SN 6th form and you make such a rudimentary error…I’m tempted to pass you on to Shantam’s Academy for Hopeless Cases for some private tuition…
Yes, er…well..on second thoughts…perhaps not….
@SD!
http://goo.gl/dPzhKf
Is there anything else about that analogy you’d like to say, Frank? (Sigh!)
Arps,
I think I will leave it at that.
Brevity is the soul of wit, after all.
http://www.labirintoermetico.com/09IChing/Wilhelm_R_The_I_Ching_or_Book_of_Changes_%28abriged%29.pdf
The debate around Arun inevitably ends with some kind of religion discussion.
I am very lukewarm about Arun because in fact I don’t want any religion created out of Osho’s work, or of Sannyas, on which he seems to be intent.
All religions I can think of, except Taoism, seem to have created much backwardness and murder in men. It is not only Moslems who murder in the name of their religion, but Buddhists, Christians, and many more. I think that ‘certainty’ is at the back of it. Man is so insecure he cannot live with uncertainty. If his beliefs are challenged he just becomes murderous.
I see Sannyas as a religionless path and want it to remain so. All the outfits of organisers around Osho’s work are dangerous. That includes the Delhi people, the OI people and the Arun people. If any of them succeed in creating a religion around Osho, in spite of what seems to have been his wishes, then a 100 years from now, if humanity and the planet still survive, then there will be those who will want to kill in his name.
Parmartha, thanks for expressing collective western phobia around Osho in an articulate way. It is mind perception 100% similar like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
As I have said before, start a new string with this topic. I can brainwash the rusted collective in your people’s mind.
It is more out of love, personally it won´t affect me if Mr. Jain and his books too disappear from the world like the old Zen schools and their teachers.
From the compost of the past, Nature can create new future. Nothing extraordinary.It simply makes me sad how the people from the most intelligent race are so full with mind projections.
To be true, if I am reborn as a western, it will be hell even to think to follow some Indian guru. This much evolution will be in my brain not to waste my and other people´s energy into the project which is not designed by Nature´s software.
I had a future-life progression therapy session yesterday. Under hypnosis, I travelled forward in time to 2171.
My memory of the future was of getting out of an electric rickshaw (which a sign on the back indicated was “Hypothecated to the State Bank of Osho”). There were pictures of Arun and Kirti with garlands round their necks hanging over the window. The cabbie, a guy dressed in red wearing a mala started to talk to me: “I am from Osho`ite family” he said, chest swelling with pride, “I hate Sunnyasins”. He paused, spat forcefully onto the ground and growled “Sisterfuckers”.
He proudly pointed to his vibhuti-stained wind-screen picture of the Samadhi (now re-located in Delhi) and proclaimed proudly, “Whoever owns the stick owns the buffalo”. Then he lit some incense, and as he mumbled his mantra, “Shri Ram, jai Ram, jai jai Osho, Yahoo Yahoo” in reverend tones, I couldn’t help noticing a little doll of a bald man with a long beard hanging from his rear view mirror, whose hat lit up in flashing neon every time we went over a bump and mechanically spoke the words “I leave you my dream. I leave you my dream.”
He dropped me off at a chai shop where the first thing I noticed on the wall was a large calendar with a picture of a blue-skinned Osho sitting cross-legged in a Rolls Royce in a marble hall with Om signs emanating from his folded hands and then another picture of Osho from the Ranch days surrounded by maroon uniformed guys with sub-machine guns and the sutra “Death is the biggest illusion” written in Arabic-style script above it. I noticed that the bottom of the poster read: “Calendar sponsored by Osho aggregates and pharmaceutical/ industrial/military corporation”.
The maroon-clad chai shop owner greeted me: “Hari Om, Yahoo, Jai Osho.” He had a Kalashnikov phaser slung over his shoulder and in the back of the shop I could see an old picture of a distinguished-looking white man with a beard which was riddled with bullet-holes and had obviously been used for target practice, with the slogan “Death to alcoholic baboons” scrawled under it.
The chai-wallah put the kettle on. The sound of rumbling phaser-fire from the nearby raging battle slowly but surely started to grow louder and louder until it seemed to be outside the very door of the shop.…
The chai-shop owner turned to me, clutched his mala and, fixing me in the eye with a psychotic glint, demanded menacingly:
“Are you ready to die for Osho`s vision..? Is there anything more worthy to die for than the truth?”
At that moment, I came out of my trance and back to the present in a cold sweat….
Frank boy, you are envious of Yogi and trying to keep up…and you are successful! Great post! Says a lot…
No doubt, you are an alcoholic baboon! XXX
Good post, Frank. I fear that though it made me laugh a lot, it will have a trace of truth in it, in 2171.
Even if someone travels in the future, one travels with one´s own fucking mind of here and now.
After going through Parmartha’s, Shantam’s & Frank’s posts, it seems more likely that Taoism, Monotheism & Lifeism shall have to live to with each other, at least for the moment!
One rare photo. Photo speaks, speaks what we want to hear.
We can also try to visualize what was the motive for the man on the stage to spend his active life before the people and microphone?