Osho in Uruguay
Uruguay is an enigmatic country. It is said to be (income wise) the most egalitarian country in Latin America. It is a small country with a small population, circa 3.3 million, but has always had democratic and sometimes left wing leanings, and of course for its population numbers, producing amazing football teams. It has a ranking as first for lack of corruption, and contributes more troops to peace keeping missions than any other South American country. An ideal country one might say for someone like Osho to settle in and call his disciples around him. And so those of us thought at the time (1986) and some of us already began to prepare for such a move. Here is the disappointing story.
On March 19, 1986 the Uruguayan government extended an invitation to Osho as a place where he could stay after the Ranch debacle, and so Osho and his group flew to Montevideo shortly afterwards.
Uruguay even mentioned the possibility of permanent residence. However, as in other countries where Osho had tried to settle, it is discovered Osho has been denied access to every country he tried to enter: Telexes with “diplomatic secret information” (all from NATO government sources) mentioning Interpol rumours of “smuggling charges, drug dealing and prostitution” concerning Osho’s circle, preceded them to their prospective host countries., and also to Uruguay. The source of these stories was the USA. Uruguay came under the same pressure as other countries to deport Osho, but acting independently on May 14 the government decides to announce at a press conference that Osho has been granted permanent residence in Uruguay.
You may ask why initially the country appeared to act independently. In 1984 it had emerged from a period of military rule, and the left wing government of Sanguinetti , the then President of Uruguay was know for its democratic and liberal stance, and had been trying to open up relations with communist countries since the end of military rule. Hence not particularly a friend of the Americans. However the country was shadowed by a national debt almost as great as its national income at the time.
Osho staying in 1986 near Montevideo
The night that Osho was offered permanent residence, Sanguinetti received a call from Washington, DC, saying that if Osho stays in Uruguay, current US loans of six billion dollars will be called in, and no future loans given.
Sanguinetti ‘s liberal policy towards Osho and his sannyasins was abandoned overnight. Osho is requested to leave Uruguay by June 18 ending a three month stay. A day after Osho leaves Uruguay, Sanguinetti and Reagan announce from Washington a new US loan to Uruguay of 150 million dollars.
The talks Osho gives during his two months in Uruguay are among Osho’s most esoteric discourses. They were published under the following titles: Beyond Psychology, The Path of the Mystic, and The Transmission of the Lamp.
Altogether 21 countries either deported Osho or denied him entry in the world tour. Uruguay definitely seemed the most hospitable until the Americans used the economic card to force their hand. Sanguinetti served twice as President of Uruguay, and made considerable contributions towards furthering liberal values in his country. It might be interesting for someone to talk to hm now nearing what might be the end of his life, to ask about that brief rebellion against American dictat.
SN
When I read this, it seems just a simple twist of fate might have precipitated another trajectory for Sannyas.
I remember at the time learning that Osho was happy in Uruguay, as were his immediate entourage. In London we had already researched flights to Montevideo, etc, but were discouraged from going out there until some basis for a new commune was established there.
Three months was a long time for Osho to get some sort of acceptance in another country, and one had hopes that the American bully would be given boundaries. There was a brief moment that people got excited when Osho was given status there.
Who would be squabbling now over the old Indian ashram if we had been in South America for some four years with Osho? All the energy would have switched there.
Well, in that case, Parmartha, we all could be in some place else geographically and probably South American sannyasins would hardly be bothered to take over, but surely few Indians would want to get Osho back to India somehow!
Anyway, what’s the point of ‘if’, there’s no way to go back or further in time anyway, this is all that I have now!
“Rumours of “smuggling charges, drug dealing and prostitution” concerning Osho’s circle, preceded them to their prospective host countries and also to Uruguay.”
These charges were not rumours but rather proven facts. That is, along with the mess left behind in Oregon after the debacle that was the Ranch. In Rajneeshpuram there were proven facts that Osho’s people were found guilty, of, amongst other things, wiretapping, arranging fake marriages and mass poisoning of the local population.
The idea that Osho was some sort of Christ-like figure, who was unjustly persecuted in America, is a crude attempt to whitewash the reality that quite a number of Osho’s people were engaged in criminal activities both in America and internationally. At the time sannyasins were smuggling drugs all over the planet, drug dealing internationally and quite a few sannyasin women were working as hookers.
I do not have a problem with any of that. It is, after all, a dirty world. The thing is, to cry foul when Osho was turned into an international pariah is to behave in a completely naive way.
Uruguay is one of South America’s most progressive countries. That they were willing to allow Osho to stay there shows the liberal social tolerance that was then in seed form and today flowers in that country. In international affairs they still do not heft much clout. Back then, even less so. The Americans were deeply pissed off with Osho and his people, because they had basically run amok and abused the civil liberties that exist in that country.
Osho got off lightly, for one reason or another. As figurehead of an organization in the USA that perpetrated a successful biological attack on its citizens he could have ended up in prison for the rest of his life, but he didn’t. He was lucky and the Americans knew it and therefore wanted to make a point by hassling him and his people for some time in order to drive home the point that it is a mistake to do what he did and think you can get away so lightly.
To put forward a purely speculative and hypothetical picture of how things might have worked out in Uraguay, had Osho and his people been allowed to stay there is, to me, an example of pure daydreaming. To make out that Osho was persecuted by the Americans in a completely unjustifiable way is nonsense.
Of late, on SN, quite a number of the threads have been based on events long gone. This could be taken in various ways. One of the most obvious would raise the question that the site has to a fair extent an orientation towards the past, because the present does not contain anything so juicy as events that took place thirty years ago etc. I mean to say, a thread with the heading ‘Osho’s Grandmother’ could hardly be interpreted as a topic leading a reader to conclude that the here and now is the place to be.
If SN were to be taken on this current thread it would, for the main part, definitely appear that this site is for people in their dotage living rewinds of their dreams, and that is not a healthy reflection and has nothing to do with Osho’s premise that living in the moment is the only place to find the truth of one’s being.
I believe sannyasins have much to contribute towards gaining a higher perspective. Perhaps it is time for SN’s editors to do as Osho advised and drop the past. Come on, guys, surely you can come up with something a little more current and enlightening than feeding the need to go over and over what happened decades ago? It has already been covered to such an extent that it is completely buried…in other words, it is dead.
Perhaps after this comment a few will care to say something. Right now there exists much evidence to suggest that the regular commentators are losing interest in SN. I believe this may have a lot to do with the views I have just expressed.
Yes, SN does sometimes sound like the ramblings of wrinklies stuck on the stairlift to heaven in the Orange Sunshine retirement home whilst waiting for the nurse to come round with the ultimate medicine…
“What if it had all been different?”
“Those guys ruined my religion.”
“What a lovely hat someone was wearing 30 years ago…”
“The energy was really strong in 1977.”
“I was really living in the present 30-35 years ago…”
The here and now ain’t what it used to be…”
Maybe we should collect the sayings of all these ‘Then masters’ into a book
- working titles:
‘I Was That’
‘Been Here Now’
‘The Power of Then’
Funny.
Frank,
The ´Here and Now´ is never what it used to be´, never. As it is the gap in between two words and even much more less, and same time so much more, we rarely grasp it.
And yet we are talking (writing) here, aren´t we?
I picked this from your words as it is a good example for becoming quite a stylish New Age Speak instead of a reminder with an at least sometimes good effect.
I love to be reminded, btw.
Lokesh did it his very way. And not at all the first time and he is permanently booked in his very way.
Swamishanti contributed – his way – some aspects of synchronicities and that we really know nothing (and that feels – at times – uncomfortable).
Got inspired by Arpana to look deeper into the `semantic satiation´, a term coined by one Leon James (1967, Canada) and that has been interesting for me.
He described, amongst other neurological consequences, the psychological processing of constant repetitions as inducing a kind of mental fatigue with the consequences that words lose meaning and or get unloaded of their emotional loads (like anxiety: it was/is applied to treat stutterers).
If words lose meaning in a gibberish meditation it is fun and if you´ve ever done it you know it creates s p a c e and quite often well-being.
If words lose all meaning in a virtual chat and not at all in the way of some DADA-Art, it´s quite something else; then the chat is just suffering a ´mental fatigue´. Or even gets destructive.
Madhu
P.S:
Have a day at home…as my left leg is hurting – so the walkabout to look out for friends to share is the way it is….
There is a word, which I unfortunately don’t recall (maybe someone here knows the word) which describes the feeling that follows the over-use of a word, repetitive use of a word, when a word becomes meaningless because of that over-use. Well, chewing over all this history has had the same effect on me.
At best it all seems unreal, at worst I am indifferent – although I am anything but indifferent to Bhagwan, Osho – to whatever happened in the past.
https://en.wiki2.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation
The word is ‘redundant’, Arpana, same in German as English. But as for some of ever repetitive context here, I mostly interpret it as one of the symptoms when a ´trauma-prey ´is circled on and on and on by individual responders, not being able to get rid of it or dissolve it. Or even identify it…
As far as the Uruguay stay is concerned, I really loved being able, like many others, to meditate with the ´vids of the quite very intimate meetings in Uruguay and they were shown almost in real time here.
I felt this time as a precious GAP then and there and at none of the moments felt an invitation to go for another big commune affair in the old style.
The three living books spoken in Uruguay are jewels for me. Still are.
And I remember how I loved to see the Master there without his big hats and with those simple white clothes and looking very well.
Madhu
P.S:
We are all ´redundant´ the one or the other way, I guess; especially when we (have to) use words and even if we write some poetry or other.
Redundant is not what I meant, although I can understand why you suggest the word, but that’s a different concept.
The word, or rather phrase I wanted is semantic satiation.
https://en.wiki2.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation
One of those books from the Uruguay discourses, ‘The Transmission of the Lamp’, is hard to get hold of these days.
I had tried to purchase it as a Christmas gift for someone, yet it was not available in the bookstore of the Poona stronghold/resort (or Osho Purnima for that matter).
No doubt the book can be found online and downloaded for free. But one may wonder how longer hardbacks and paperbacks will be relevant in the future digital age, as more and more people are wired in to the computerised systems.
Remember, many sannyasins will be reborn into a world that is fully computerised and will be plugged in to facebook and other shite by the time that they are five or six years old. Virtual reality games will be big soon.
Will these books, these hardbacks and paperbacks still exist, for the reincarnated sannyasin souls?
Shanti,
‘Transmission of the Lamp’ is not hard to find. Just costs a fortune. I’ve got a copy, which I paid the standard price for.
Try Abe Books if you’re willing to pay through the schnoz.
We do not charge a fortune for the book, Arpana. You can email us at oshoviha@oshoviha.org for a price quote.
Thanks. I did look it up, but obviously missed it.
For about 30 years Osho Viha has been selling The Transmission of the Lamp, and also the other two Uruguay discourse series books – and 500 other Osho titles: http://www.oshoviha.org
I just noticed that we do not actually list the book on our website as we have only a few copies left. Our price for the book is $31.95 plus shipping.
Great insight, Lokesh. I loved your post and advice to drop past grave-digging nonsense. I was also prejudiced as a conditioned Osho lover but your exposure of our criminal, unconscious acts which put Osho as per our interpretation in difficulty; but again my (perhaps conditioned) understanding says that Osho was well aware of our unconscious, limited growth and he handled it so masterly for his purpose. He wanted media attention for his Last Testaments.
Sheela and many of us brought great media attention by smuggling and prostitution etc. to which media is always eager. We really helped our master anyway.
Thank you for the insightful post, my dear.
I disagree, Avinashi, as “great media attention” through news stories of smuggling and prostitution (not forgetting fake marriages and poisoning the public) might well not be ideal publicity, especially for a ‘religious’ figure and his movement, however radically iconoclastic these might be.
Some say ‘all publicity is good publicity’, but I’m not at all sure this is true, given the capacity today’s mass media has for feeding on and essentially ‘crucifying’ its victims.
Sure, Osho must have realised his sannyasins’ foolishness (without necessarily knowing the criminality that was endemic among his inner circle) but I’m afraid he was badly tainted by what went on in the US crisis, and that was and remains a severe setback for his work.
From reading Krishna Deva`s testimony to the FBI, it is clear that many in Sheela`s inner circle believed that Osho knew about all of the gang’s criminal activities, except possibly the plan to dig the tunnel under Osho`s trailer and creep up through the trapdoor and inject Vivek with a syringe, and poison his doctor too.
However, the FBI had other testimonies from other sannyasins, and they didn`t really believe that Osho was involved in many of the conspiracies (remember one of those nice ideas dreamed up by Sheela`s crew, “the Moms”, included just stopping Amrito`s car and shooting him in the face, and then just driving off).
Meanwhile, Reagan`s government were busy supplying Saddam Hussein with biological and chemical weapons, and financing Bin Laden in Afghanistan against the Soviets.
Correction there, it was not Dhyan John`s testimony to the FBI, it was Swami Krishna Deva.
“Some say ‘all publicity is good publicity’, but I’m not at all sure this is true, given the capacity today’s mass media has for feeding on and essentially ‘crucifying’ its victims.” (Satyadeva)
Thanks for your balanced way to state some facts here, Satyadeva.
In my little yesterday´s research about ´semantic satiation´ and its application for various means, I stumbled upon a website with an open chat like ours and here´s a little quote from the article, I read:
“It’s a bizarre example of the kind of mind-fuckery that’s possible when someone has the means of shaping your reality — something modern technology now allows us to do like never before.
Virtual reality is being trumpeted as a platform for everything from pornography to video games to treating PTSD. But given how powerful VR is becoming, and how widely used it’s evidently going to become, one logical misuse is especially disturbing: torture.
To be clear, there’s no evidence of VR being used to press people for information the way sound, rectal feeding, and other horrors were applied by the CIA in its secret prisons. But where the imagination goes, reality has often followed. And when it comes to torture, a simulation can be just as impactful as the real thing. “In mental health, perceptions are reality,” says Dr. Asher Aladjem of Bellevue’s Program for Survivors of Torture, “so if you think you are being tortured, you are being tortured.”
(Source: http://www.Motherboard.vice.com)
I mean, none of us here is, concerning some thread topics like this one, more then a ´fly´ sitting on an elephant’s skin and describing ´the world´ around, having mostly wrong conclusions about it.
Rarely there have been few – late and late-coming – ‘whistle blowers or other testimonies of dirty or not so dirty deals of lawyers. Most of them are either dead by now or disappeared into creating their life´anew´with another (cleansed of calamities)´vita. Or some are silent readers of this chat?
Some are blissfully unaware and/or some are blissfully spared of what Rupert Sheldrake calls a ´morphogenetic field´, a field that can become more evident and may be dissolved in a ´family´ or system constellation work.
Dying to the past – as recommended – not so easy as it sometimes appears to be.
Madhu
“These charges were not rumours but rather proven facts.” (Lokesh)
The US government had plenty of motivation. They wanted Osho crucified. The had the means: 17 federal and state agencies dedicating money and staff hours to investigations. Osho suddenly leaving the Ranch gave them the opportunity to arrest (with no warrant), transport roughly, imprison and poison Osho. All of that they did, with disregard for niceties of law.
Yet when it came to legal proceedings in which verifiable evidence had to be presented, they had nothing on Osho. All they could get was an Alford plea.
So, I wouldn’t be so sure about asserting “proven facts.” The place where “proven facts” are really convenient is in a court of law. Yet no such “proven facts” were produced to show Osho was involved in any illegal activity.
Lokesh says: “Osho got off lightly, for one reason or another.” Osho was innocent. Which explains why no “facts” were able to be presented to convict him and put him away for life imprisonment. That is what my Occam’s Razor says anyway.
Samarpan is trying to be Sadiq Khan whereas Lokesh has proven to be Donald Trump.
Is it not clear in this age and time, Political Incorrectness is the right correctness?
Osho Himself was one such.
Sam, what you say may well be true. Then again, it might not.
Your comment exemplifies very well my main point in that what you say makes no difference to my life today. If I felt inclined to I could argue with you, but I will not because it is a waste of time and boring.
The subject matter deals with events long gone. They may have caused a stir when they were current but today it is obsolete. I would be far more interested in what you have to say were it to relate to how Osho affects your life now.
I have no idea what Occam’s Razor is, but if I hazard a guess I’d say it is some kind of rusty, blunt instrument.
“I would be far more interested in what you have to say were it to relate to how Osho affects your life now.” (Lokesh_
Now, in this present moment, I feel a heart-to-heart connection with Osho, same as that which started 34 years ago when I fell in love with Osho.
How does Osho affect your life now, Lokesh? How is neo-Sannyas going for you? Or have you ‘moved on’?
I have just got back to the West from Osho Nisarga, Neelam’s place in the Himalayas.
I made some excellent connections, left my robes behind on leaving and moved my arse to the tune of Mystic Rose, the Gurdjieff Movements and Sacred Dance.
People are still engaged in collaborating fully, lots of networking and the effects are precious. India could do with a funky community that knows how to hang with the man. Nisarga does its best to keep the situation accessible without glamming it up. It’s not a rave-up, but you can reconnect with a version of Osho that reminds me of Lao Tsu house.
For now, that’s it. I can’t think of writing much else just now…just wanted to say hello.
Keep the love humming,
Prem Martyn
Welcome, Prem Martyn.
And thank you for the song you shared!
Madhu
Hi Madhu , thanks for that. Feeling very simple with it all…words slow in forming. Taking care helps.
Sounds good. Coincidentally, Prita was just speaking about your time in Mallorca on the drive home. Happy trails.
Thanks, Lokey…Hope all’s well with you both…I’m having a change of skins with all the increased interactions and core processes…56 years and still mixing it up!! The Ibiza Scene probably won’t miss me – but I’d like to be a raver for just a week…to see how it felt…I’ll keep options open…the summer season is nearly upon us, love n hugs.
Oh, Oh, Martyn,
You went to Nisarga, the place managed by an expelled Indian lady called Neelam.
No good, man, no good. You are not true to your race, to your country. Why you have not gone to Osho Resort, the place managed by whiter than white?
I am afraid you have hurt the religious loyalty of many!
P.S:
Call it coincidence, Neelam is a cover story on my facebook wall for last three days.
More adolescent crap from Shantam the racist.
Arpana and similar Swamis/Mas,
Don´t forget your deity´s buddhahood was treated not more than adolescent fantasy. Almost all the people were sure bubble will burst, the one man word factory is a good orator and commentator of scriptures, nothing more that. It was ok to call Shri Rajneesh Jain as Acharya Rajneesh, nothing more than that.
This is also one of the reasons no government took Osho seriously, they dealt with him according to the omissions and commissions as per the legal statutes. Why the governments of various countries should give any kind of immunity to someone who is deported from USA on serious crimes?
I am sure similar chagres in India keep persons behind bars for months and years, as there is no plea bargain in Indian laws. Two well known and hugely successful gurus are meditating in their prison cells.
Again it is not a question how world treats their spiritual genius. Question is how shabbily disciples are dealing with their ‘master author’ post-demise.
Look, Shantam, some of your Indian brown-skins are also taking the same political views as the Resort management:
http://www.oshozenstick.com/about_us.php
These people claim to be the the ‘Osho Friends Trust’, set up by Laxmi in 1986, but seem to be a mouthpiece of Resort political views.
THIS IS THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF OSHO FRIENDS TRUST HAVING ITS ADDRESS: OSHO FRIENDS TRUST, CHAMBAGHAT, SOLAN, H.P., INDIA 173213
Swamishanti, I know this crap long ago. I know also the faceless people who are running this site.
After reading their assessment of Laxmi, I doubt that these people are part of any organisation set up by Laxmi. Looks more like someone is channelling Amrito/Jayesh.
http://www.oshozenstick.com/ma_yoga_laxmi.php
Interesting site, SS…good you alert us to the possibilities on offer.
Hi Shantam,
Yes, it’s coincidence.
She’s into her particular thing, she made it happen with Tathagat who’s funded the place as I understand. It’s small-medium enough to be intimate and with excellently appointed cottages and a few shared rooms.
You’d get to know everyone there in the first day of any group.
I like it that Indians have a chance to talk psychology, whilst the westerners sublimate their/our identities into witnessing and presence, as part of the Osho legacy (without acting out in therapy chambers).
I also like that that exists elsewhere, very much. What I also like is that although in no way is it run collectively by a bunch of ‘together’ or ‘hip’ sannyasins, it is user-friendly, engaging, and accessible to just talking over tea with whomsoever.
It is also not a message centre for speeches about Osho. There’s evening discourse and the meditations and the groups. Quiet style with a beedie-temple for any excess indulgence. If you’re brave you can dip in the cold river.
If Indians keep on developing their psychological language and westerners keep vibing into the transcendences…there might be more pockets of places for incarnating Oshoness between each other, in India. That would be a bit like the softness of the ‘Transmission of the Lamp’, coupled with its psychic or whatever you may wish to call it, depth.
Dear Martyn,
Please write your journey experience to India as an self-contained string for Sannyasnews.
That is so much here and now as most of the stuff is about then and there. Whatsoever you have written till now must be an eye-opener for those Britishers who think Indians will turn Osho into some kind of demigod to worship.
Shantam.
Why don’t you write a thread, explaining to us how you, with your particular skill set, are marvellously suited to making the ashram as it was when Osho was still alive?
That one’s always good for a laugh.
Good on you, Martyn.
Thank you, Lokesh, for such a well written piece. One needs a little distance and no vested interest to be so clear.
I know it is a human instinct to protect our loved ones even when their crime is proven beyond doubt, it is also a human instinct to go on denying.
Maybe it is time to accept Bhagwan Shree was a human too and disciples are humans also. In this context things will be easier to understand. I feel once human aspect is understood, divine aspect will shine through.
Madhu, you say, with which I agree:
“As far as the Uruguay stay is concerned, I really loved being able, like many others, to meditate with the ´vids of the quite very intimate meetings in Uruguay and they were shown almost in real time here.
I felt this time as a precious GAP then and there and at none of the moments felt an invitation to go for another big commune affair in the old style.
The three living books spoken in Uruguay are jewels for me. Still are.
And I remember how I loved to see the Master there without his big hats and with those simple white clothes and looking very well.”
Madhu, I think you would further agree that those books did not come out of thin air. Osho had begun to ‘work’ again, and in some of the pics from that period he looks very good.
I am grateful that he found three months of reclusion there in what was a real difficult time.
Many in present time are still interested in Osho, and they come to him in a variety of ways. It is good if those who seek know the full biography of the man, and the Uruguay period is sometimes completely missed.
This post has nothing to do with the past, but is meant as a helpmate to those who still, like me, want those who seek and want to explore Osho, to be given the fullest picture in this moment.
“This post has nothing to do with the past, but is meant as a helpmate to those who still, like me, want those who seek and want to explore Osho, to be given the fullest picture in this moment.”
Thank you, Parmartha, for clarifying & sharing.
Actually, I have heard these discourses in Buddha Hall at least more than fifteen years ago.Thank you for reminding.
“And I remember how I loved to see the Master there without his big hats and with those simple white clothes and looking very well.”
One wonders why Osho left the hats off during this period (was he `hatless` during the whole stay in Uruguay?). And he went back, to a more simple style white robe.
Perhaps it was something to do with the climate and the air-conditioning not being as powerful as he was used to – or perhaps the box of hats got left behind somewhere and had simply not arrived with his crew yet.
I like to think he decided to return to the Poona 1 self-presentation. Just a simple white robe and no head gear after what the Ranch became associated with.
Anyway, I liked it.
I am not sure, Shanti, whether the whole Uruguay period was hatless, but it might have been.
Punte del whatever, the resort near Montevideo, did seem to agree with him health-wise. Sea air – wonderful for the body. Today they call it oxygen therapy…silly billies. Better than that very polluted Indian city called Pune!
I`m afraid his Poona 1 simple style didn’t last in Uruguay, as I discovered this photo of him in Uruguay, looking a bit like a South American gangster or drug baron.
Note the dog.
And what about those poor disciples, who had to lug the heavy trunks full of his robes and hats all around after him? I’m sure he wouldn`t have bothered carrying them.
Sw.AA, he doesn’t look “a bit like a South American gangster or drug baron”. If so, he would be wearing Armani (hat as well) and would be sitting on his private plane, and instead of a dog would be a beautiful woman resting.
I guess that if he stayed in Uruguay, he would still be alive…plenty of reasons for that!
Cheers, SS, loved the photo! XXX
Nice pic, SS.
After a short preamble the article begins, “On March 19, 1986 the Uruguayan government extended an invitation to Osho.”
Now PM says, “This post has nothing to do with the past.”
Then Kavita says, “Thank you, Parmartha, for clarifying.”
Madhu declares, quite rightly, “Dying to the past – as recommended – not so easy as it sometimes appears to be.”
Draw your own conclusions.
Lokesh, can you enlighten me/us what’s your conclusion? In case you have any!
I have drawn plenty. Put it like this, the charm of history and its enigmatic lesson consist in the fact that, from age to age, nothing changes and yet everything is completely different.
Now that is enlightening!
Its true about the quality of the Uruguay Osho…Suffused, penetrating tendernesses.
I remember aching to want to be there with him and that, then….
Longing in itself is possibly unique in the interior world and distils the heart to its core. Awakening remains contemporary, even now.
May I suggest the tune, that goes like this:
You got me singing
Even tho’ the news is bad
You got me singing
The only song I ever had
You got me singing
Ever since the river died
You got me thinking
Of the places we could hide
You got me singing
Even though the world is gone
You got me thinking
I’d like to carry on
You got me singing
Even tho’ it all looks grim
You got me singing
The Hallelujah hymn
You got me singing
Like a prisoner in a jail
You got me singing
Like my pardon’s in the mail
You got me wishing
Our little love would last
You got me thinking
Like those people of the past
You got me singing
Even though the world is gone
You got me thinking
I’d like to carry on
You got me singing
Even tho’ it all went wrong
You got me singing
The Hallelujah song.
Lyrics and music by Leonard Cohen: ‘You Got Me Singing’
Thanks, Martyn, good song from L.Cohen.
I am not quite sure why sannyasins get so distressed about the treatment of Osho.
Wasn’t he treated in the exact way ‘he’ always said society tends to treat enlightened people?
Or, would you rather he had been welcomed with open arms by the White House and all those other countries who rejected him?
If that had happened, that’s when you should get concerned.
Excellent shift of perspective there (y*).
*Thumbs-up!
Maybe Osho just threw the dice and took the outcome.
Have you ever come across this poem?
Roll the Dice, by Charles Bukowski
If you’re going to try, go all the way.
Otherwise, don’t even start.
If you’re going to try, go all the
way.
This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and
maybe your mind.
Go all the way.
It could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days.
It could mean freezing on a park bench.
It could mean jail,
It could mean derision,
Mockery,
Isolation.
Isolation is the gift,
All the others are a test of your
endurance, of
how much you really want to
do it.
And you’ll do it
despite rejection and the worst odds
and it will be better than
anything else
you can imagine.
If you’re going to try,
go all the way.
there is no other feeling like
that.
You will be alone with the gods
and the nights will flame with
fire.
Do it, do it, do it.
Do it.
All the way
All the way.
You will ride life straight to
perfect laughter, it’s
the only good fight
there is.
“Maybe Osho just threw the dice and took the outcome.”
Thanks for the metaphor. Imo that is exactly what he did.
I’ve been trying to say that for years. You nailed it.
Loneliness is a gift from Godliness…which gets refined…immanence…Or dissolution into…It’s a helluva complete ridiculous situation…but not a million miles away from entering into…it’s unconditional…So come as you are.
I´d like to recommend to you to read an article in Osho News.com, Frank – written by Subhuti. It’s about the work of Margo Anand, the article is titled: Tantra and Sexploitation (May 2015).
I´m not so much into what Subhuti is writing but was fond of this article, which was for me very grounded.
And as you have been sucked into Mister Bukowsky´s kind of tales and tastes, I felt to recommend to you you to read this article.
Madhu
Do you not approve of Bukowski, or Frank for posting the poem, Madhu?
P.S:
15th of May, 2016 (the edited article) as Margo Anand’s book will be on the shelves not before September 2016.
If you read a poem like ‘Roll the Dice’, by Charles Bukowski, one can get inspired.
It’s like many writers, when you visit the man himself – it’s a disappointment.
Something self-destructive in him, mixed in with his bravery and beauty. Such men are ‘interesting’ compared with the man on the 73 bus to Walthamstow, but they sure miss equanimity and meditation.
Subhuti’s article is okay, and you are right, Madhu, to bring attention to it. (Unfortunately, the host of that article does not allow comments!).
There has been criticism at SN of ‘history’ of late.
I don’t share this. However, with the Indian Tantra texts, which are some of the oldest written in the world, it is easy to forget that it was a world without sexual diseases, Aids, etc. (as far as we know), and allegedly children were looked after by the tribes into which they were born, in a communal way. (This latter may just be the wish fulfilment of certain historians). The enormous modern tragedy of blighted lives, either through sexual disease or children born into unloved situations is vast.
Much stuff put out in the name of modern Tantra is just using the name as a commercial magnet to get people into their groups, etc. The modalities of the tantra texts are indeed, as I think Madhu wants to suggest, often used as the browbeating of the male upon the female.
Madhu,
Poems just come through people – even assholes. Pissheads like Bukowski know this, which is why the inscription on his gravestone reads: “Don`t try”.
To miss the poem by complaining about the asshole instead is simply to fail to appreciate poetry at all.
You say, “And as you have been sucked into Mister Bukowski´s kind of tales and tastes,n I felt to recommend to you to read this article.”
On the contrary. I think it is time you got into you your inner Bukowski! mRemember, by your own account, you are the one sitting alone in your room in a crappy flat in a bad side of town, surrounded by blue-collar assholes and immigrants,n drinking by yourself and attempting to knock out what you believe to be poetry at your keyboard!
Big P,
The Indian Tantra texts the oldest texts in the world?
Not by a very long way. Out by at least a millennium.
You say:”The modalities of the tantra texts are indeed, as I think Madhu wants to suggest, often used as the browbeating of the male upon the female.”
No one I`ve met who does Tantra groups is vaguely interested in ancient texts! Tantra is just a buzzword and the whole philosophy has been cobbled together relatively recently.
For example, some painstaking research has been done into the history of the chakra system. In the old texts there were many, many different systems with 5,6,7,8 12,14 chakras. It wasn`t fixed. It was not a reportage of actual fact.
So, if you believe that 7 chakras definitely exist and were discovered by ancient seers (and they relate to the 7 colours etc.) then you may be surprised to find that this idea was actually developed by western occultists, not ancient Indian mystics.
Tantra is more based on a mix of theosophical ideas mixed with modern psychology. It very probably has fuck all to do with what people were up to in India and Tibet centuries ago. Fact is, Tantric history is such a mishmash that it’s very hard to know what these guys were actually up to.
This has advantages for purveyors of Tantra as it easy to project fantasies like it was a world without sexual diseases, where children were looked after by the tribes into which they were born in a communal way because there was a body of teachings around showing how to do sex and relationships in the right way!
Well, yes, Frank,
Your response is understandable – and thank you for sharing this.
However, what ´works for youn does not necessarily work for me. What ´worked for me was and is in this case and context to broaden my insights of attraction and rejection and what I really liked about the article is to shed some light upon sexploitation (btw, both the ways…upon female energy as male energy too!
I can see that you were repelled by my tone, and sorry for that.
Otherwise…different strokes for different folks as Lokesh rightly used to name it.
What Margo Anand is inviting us to just seems for me a more healthy track and above that it is giving back to ancient wisdom the dignity it deserves.
And – I would say this is needed too.
I wanted to share my appreciation of this, and that I addressed that in this open chat to you came out of sympathy, believe it nor not.
We all become more acquainted with each other here chatwise in the course of time, and no need to ´to abuse´ it.
Madhu
Yes, Swami Anand Anubodh, indeed a change of perspective.
And a huge spiritual trap too which indeed functioned very well. Still is functioning, isn´t it? But a trap is a trap is a trap, even though it might look heroic.
Takes quite some of these ‘effortless efforts’ to avoid a trap, or better said, looking deeper and letting go of identifications of ´rebelliousness-issues’ which are oscillating around immaturity or identifications having pretty much nothing to do with:
BE YOURSELF – a never ending pilgrimage.
Madhu
P.S:
And thank you so much for the hint, it’s a biggie… !
This morning I was listening to ‘Beyond Psychology’ and after reading SS’s post I thought I could share this here…
http://oshosearch.net/Convert/Articles_Osho/Beyond_Psychology/Osho-Beyond-Psychology-00000001.html
Thanks for this, Kavita.
Something just fell into place about some nonsense I got stuck over years ago. The last piece of a puzzle.
Re the story about the prince in the first question, I have read this before, but didn’t get the message at the time. ✌️
✌ Arpana, somehow to me, most of the time there is always something new to get. ✌️
✌ Yes.✌
Frank needs a little correction:
The connection between spirituality and love-making in India goes back thousands of years and was first mentioned in the Rig Veda, which is considered to be one of the oldest religious texts in the world.
Likewise, the Upanishads, another ancient Hindu text, included both male and female mystics and neither sex was obliged to be celibate.
Man is a perennial creature, and I certainly don’t buy the view of some perfect golden age in the past, anywhere.
The history of medicine is full of enormous vacuums of knowledge so we can’ know what the old tribes had by way of disease, or for that matter how they reared their young. But my guess is that it was the same mishmash as today. However. they certainly died much younger, according to the archeological records.
Big P,
Rigveda is not the oldest ancient text, but as you say, it`s probably the sexiest.
Also don’t forget that the ancient texts like the Rig Veda were only written down relatively recently, and used to be sung in hymn form a long time before they were compiled.
Apparently, an ancient shiva-lingam, which represents the combination of the male and female genitalia, has recently been uncovered in Harrapa, modern day Pakistan, around the early Indus Valley civilisation and approximated to be at least 5000 years old. Some scholars theorise that these forms of worship existed in.the sub-continent long before the Aryan invasion.
Still, how the fuck do we know?
I heard the many tantric scriptures were also burnt by invading Muslim armies in more recent times.
Thanks, SS.
Frankie Boy’s contributions are welcome, as are yours, but he sometimes stretches his points unnecessarily by a dubious use of (his) facts!
What kind of dubious use of his facts is that?
When I hear the name tantra,
I say,
Give me Tao.
When I hear the name yoga,
I say, give me Tao.
When I hear of philosophies of excess
Leading to wisdom,
I say, give me Tao.
When I hear the words of Hallelujah,
I say, show me the gate in the wall
Marked Tao.
Dear Parmartha,
If you are up to TAO, I guess you may have to take all you before denied. That´s at least as far my understanding goes.
So good that SHUNYATA (emptiness) is with the TAO on board.
To have a rest in this.
When I hear the name tantra,
I say,
Give me a beer.
When I hear the name yoga,
I say, give me a beer.
When I hear of philosophies of excess
Leading to wisdom,
I say, give me a beer.
When I hear the words of Hallelujah,
I say, show me the sign on the wall
Marked `Beer`.
(From ‘Give Me A Beer’ by Charles Parmowski)
Despite all the above discussion, I can’t help reaching for my gun when I get the usual ads for Tantra groups, as I have done this morning in my inbox.
They use the word as a commercial ploy to try and fill their groups with those whose motives may not be ‘seeking’ at all! And often try and make it respectable with reference to some ancient texts from India.
There is no doubt that to a certain extent the word ‘Tantra’ has been co-opted in the way the word ‘massage’ was once co-opted.
Knocking shop to massage parlour to tantra temple…
That`s evolution of a sort!
It’s not evolution of sorts at all, Francis. It’s regression.
I felt, Arpana, you banged here an open door of ´Francis’, that’s at least how I read his contribution.
Not sure what you mean, Madhu.
Frank was being tongue-in-cheek. So was I.
“you banged here an open door”
Interesting metaphor (I am very interested in metaphor).
If I visited a friend and found the door open when I arrived I would still knock, or call out, before I walked in. I would still wait to be invited in.
That sounds very good, very decent, Arpana. I like it.
One never knows what happens if two ´tongue-in-cheeks’ are having an intimate relating broadcast to the world at large.
But thanks for reminding me of your good manners.
Here.
Madhu