Swami Anand Julian, Ace Spy

According to the Oregonian archives these four people remain fugitives from American justice as a result of crimes committed in the period 1983 to 1985 at Rajneeshpruam in Oregon.

Swami Julian (Julian James) – Charged with five federal counts of wiretap conspiracy; remains a fugitive.

Swami Anubahvo (Jorg Dauscher) – Charged with federal counts of wiretap conspiracy; remains a fugitive.

Swami Anand Michel (Michael Bisson) – Charged with five federal counts of wiretap conspiracy; remains a fugitive.

Swami Prem Rajan (Gerald L. Dunsford) – Charged with two federal counts of wiretap conspiracy; remains a fugitive.

Julian is English. Despite the UK based sannyasnews networking he seemed to have disappeared in 1986 and has never faced justice, and no-one knows where he is. He was the boss of the “Edison” dept on the Ranch and was thought to be a major supporter of Sheela in trying to accomplish her plans, including the bugging of Osho’s own room.

Max Brecher makes an interesting observation about him in his book “Passage to America” when he interviewed someone from that time:

“And in this Sheela was a very good psychologist. She was also helped by [Swami] Julian, who
used to read books (for her) , such as How To Win Over Your Enemies, or How To Hate People. Really
sick, perverted psychological textbooks, which he would get sent to him. He would read [them],
and then he would come and brief Sheela on how to deal with people. She got into this at the end of
the Ranch, towards the last year. So she actually did have some psychological weapons. Simple
things like keeping people around her when she was going to the toilet, which I later read is a way
of debasing people. That if you make someone sit around the toilet while you’re shitting, you’re
basically ….”

“… shitting on them,” Max filled in her pause.
“Yeah. Well, you have some kind of psychological hold over that person. It’s a known technique. I didn’t realize it was. Later on, when I had a look at some of these books, I realized that some of the stuff she did, whether it was conscious or unconscious, or someone had told her to do it, were very tried ways of getting someone into your power. Literally.”

Anyone know where Julian James (Swami Anand Julian) is? In avoiding justice all these years he certainly has shown a deal of spy craft!

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104 Responses to Swami Anand Julian, Ace Spy

  1. Arpana says:

    In the film ‘Vatel’, a period film (Gerard Depardieu) which I heartily recommend, the French king sits on the crapper surrounded by courtiers, in broad daylight (a true factual detail) and has his bum bum wiped for him after he’s done, by a servant, and I remember thinking then what a massive display of power that was, that you can behave to others as they would not be able to behave towards you, and in a way that’s so against social norms, and involves so many people at once. Although I can imagine that was closer to normal for them than Sheela doing it.

  2. Lokesh says:

    Basically, it was all a device created by Osho so that you could realize Buddhahood. ‘The Spy Who Shagged Me’ was a movie based loosely upon the life and times of Swami ‘Shagadelic’ Julian, last sighted selling organic hot dogs on Saturday afternoons down on Venice Beach. “I’ll make you one with everything” was printed on the paper napkins he served his hot dogs on.

  3. shantam prem says:

    Parmartha, i wish to know your motive for digging the ghosts of Rajneeshpuram again and again.

    And what astonishes me more is that you have least interest in the present scenario of power, meditation, love, intrigue, false truths and truth covered in myths.
    In a way, tell me from your experience, what Sannyas community has learnt from the Puram fiasco or what is your take?
    Is the past more lively than the present?

    • Parmartha says:

      Shantam,
      I want to be sure that ALL the lessons of the past have been learned. I am of the view that they have not.

      Also, this part of history is very unvisited. Anand Julian was an important part of the jigsaw at the Ranch, with an awful lot of power. He said of himself he could walk through a field of mud and come out with clean shoes. And so it has proved. He did know spy craft, and he knew electronics even better.

      He is still listed as the most important felon who has avoided justice. He has avoided all law enforcement people since late 1985 (over 30 years) and though he is thought to have come back to the UK after the Ranch, no sannyasins known to us know what happened to him. One is sure he is plying his trades somewhere, with a false ID.

      I don’t share your interest in the Pune Resort – just the recreation of some old past in a polluted city. What’s the point?

      On Julian himself:
      Well, I know there are those who have a begrudging liking for him because he has shown such ability to just disappear, and in a way how he made the Ranch his own experiment also…I am not one of those.

      However, I have always been interested in and supported those who were or are sannyasins who strike out on their own and speak with a clear authority based partly on their Sannyas experience. Tyohar, Satyam Nadeen, Baskar when he was alive, and others. They live in the ‘present’, for sure.

      • shantam prem says:

        While preparing dinner, I remembered like a flash one point of discussion with Sheela. I think I have not mentioned this in my previous string about her. Even if I have, it is no harm to quote again.

        My question was about this bugging of Osho´s room. As I remember, her answer was, “He knew about it. It was intercom.” She was on his call 24/7.

        She was also very much clear, every single act of omission and commission was done on Bhagwan´s instructions. Her ‘yes’ was complete and unconditional.

        In any case, I have this temptation in me to visit her again and this time record the event on mobile video. If you or anyone has investigative questions, it can add fuel to my lukewarm temptation.

        Question can surely arise, why she will tell the complete truth? But this fits with each and every character and component. The whole of Sannyas pyramid was built on cement and sand combination like every building. Result shows, sand ratio was just like the way Indian civil contractors build the roads and buildings. They cannot withstand many rains.

        By adding Indian names on their personality, I am afraid to say, Michael, George, Julia or Angelina kinds get Indian qualities- its peaks and shadow sides too.

      • Klaus says:

        And if this guy was an FBI guy? Framed. What would we learn of this?

  4. swamishanti says:

    Well, here we are opening up our ‘Ranch packs’ again, and wondering about this guy named Julian James.

    Was he an undercover CIA agent or just an English geezer carrying out Sheela`s orders?

    In his book, ‘The Day we got Guns’, in between all of the tits and bums, Swami Prem Rajesh recalls a day when Julian tests out some kind of frequency “sound weapon”:

    “He’s grunting, making animal noises, while she howls. As the fury of delight subsides, I hear giggling and bodies shifting position…”

    Wait a minute, that`s not the bit I was looking for…ah, here it is, on page 150:

    “Standing in the dust.

    The centre of town, under a hazy summer afternoon sky.

    Nearby, Julian brandishes an odd-shaped object in my direction.

    It looks like a Star Wars laser handgun.

    The ‘pain field generator.’

    This has to be a farce, a scene from the theatre of the absurd.

    Julian plays the iniquitous robber, packing the gun.

    Michel acts as the stalwart accomplice, backing Julian up from the sidelines, and having assembled that bag of parts in the spy room into a high-frequency sound weapon.

    I am the unsuspecting victim, waylaid on the road.

    Julian lowers the pain field generator, saunters three steps in mymdirection, mock draws like a gunfighter, and turns the gadget on, leveling it at me.

    I can’t hear anything, but I feel this painful shiver, like hordes of tiny insects thrashing around under my skin, or the sensory warp from an exotic msnake venom. I can’t put a name on the feeling- but it makes me want to jump out of my body.”

    In the last days before his death in 1990, Osho complained that someone was using some kind of high frequency “sound weapon” to harm him whilst he was open in the evening meditation.

    It was “the people who destroyed Rajneeshpuram”, he said.

    Was someone using some kind of sound weapon to harm him?

    Or was he going mad?

    Later he said it might have been some kind of mantra, directed against him (or was it earlier?)

    Rajesh also describes in his book how his friend, Michel, and Julian, bugged Osho`s room:

    “Michel and I loaf outside Zarathustra, watching the mountains, feeling the disappearance of summer and the life we knew.

    “Why on earth,” I say, “did we do what we did?”

    Michel pokes me in the ribs.

    “We did it because we loved it,” he says.

    “Well, it WAS awesome, even though it crashed and burned.”

    “You know, Whiteboy, me and Jules…we bugged Bhagwan too. I put a mic inside his wooden alarm button. They call it the panic button. It rests on the table by his chair. We piped the audio through the phone wire pedestals, down to Jesus Grove.”

    “My God…”

    He beams, elated, snickering, “Jules said Bhagwan was bugged in Poona too.”

    “No way,” I say.

    “It’s true.”

    (Page 196)

    • sannyasnews says:

      Thanks, Shanti. An interesting supposition, to be sure.
      Where does Osho say, “The people who destroyed Rajneeshpuram” were the ones targeting him in Pune in 1989? Or was he just speaking allegorically?

      • swamishanti says:

        I have no idea what happened. Actually, I read this from Sam`s ‘Life of Osho’:

        “Osho continued to come to Buddha Hall, but about a week after Vivek’s death was reported to say that someone in the audience was repeating a mantra during the meditation.

        The mantra was hostile and was designed, while he was open during the meditation, to do him harm. Osho was specific as to where in the auditorium the sound was coming from, and everyone in the front rows (for Osho said the sound was coming from somewhere close to him) was, from
        one satsang to the next, moved this way and that in an attempt to pinpoint its location. Buddha Hall was combed for any device employing ultra-sonics. Night after night this went on, with Osho continuing to maintain that he was being attacked by black magic, and that this was being done by the same group of people who had destroyed the commune in the US.

        Was this for real? Or was it some kind of parting ‘device’? Or was he just going mad? Just as his body was disintegrating so was that magnificent intelligence? Or, on the contrary, was he quite right and there was someone or some thing very close to him which was designed to kill him? A high-tech esoteric assassin? Or is that completely potty?”

        But I also remember reading, and I can`t remember where, Osho`s dentist Devageet, defending this idea that the CIA had some knowledge and made use of using sound devices technology to cause harm to others.

        • swamishanti says:

          Also read this recently, part of an testament by Swami Krishna Deva to the FBI:

          “KNAPP said that PUJA was always very excited about the disease AIDS. KNAPP said that the PUJA heard that A in San Francisco had AIDS, 4 PUJA asked SHEELA to let her go down to San Francisco and drew his blood. Answer was that it would be good iden. KNAPP said PUJA eventually did go to San Francisco, but he is not sure that-it was in connection with that conversation. KNAPP said that PUJA talked about culturing the AIDS virus and she was very secretive concerning her work in`that area. KNAPP informed that he knew that there was an individual by the name of SWAMI LAZARUS who died of AIDS and he said LAZARUS was homosexual and remembered that SAGUN was very sad when he died. KNAPP said that DURGA worked very closely with PUJA. KNAPP informed that in August, 1985 the–wh0le community was forced to take tests to detect the presence of the AIDS virus.

          KNAPP reported that in August, 1985 BHAGWAN said, “We’re going to do something big, much bigger and better than Share-a-Home Project.” KNAPP said that he then made a suggestion that the commune take in all AIDS victims from around the country and create a place where they would be well treated. KNAPP said that his idea was later dismissed because of legal problems and due to potential health problems concerning the isolation of these AIDS victims. BHAGWAN eventually said to forget the AIDS idea. PD 250-3 I Cunhnuahou ol ol DAVID BERRY.

          Page KNAPP said that PUJA and BHAGWAN wanted luxurious surroundings for AIDS victims. KNAPP also said PUJA and DURGA ran the Desiderata area where eleven AIDS patients were isolated. KNAPP also informed that ANUTOSH was chosen to research the legality of bringing AIDS patients from around the country to the City of Rajneesh. KNAPP remembered ANUTOSH had a dispute over the conduct of testing with SHEELA, PUJA and SU. KNAPP said ANUTOSH had done enough research to know that the HTLV test that the ranch was conducting was not conclusive and that the eleven people that were being detained at Desiderata were probably not really contaminated with AIDS.

          KNAPP informed that in Summer, 1985, he was at the parking lot at Jesus Grove. At that time he saw JULIAN sitting in JULIAN’s car which KNAPP described as one of the commune’s Oldsmobiles. JULIAN said to KNAPP, “Hey, l’d like to try something with you.” At that point JULIAN took out what appeared to be a speaker without a cabinet and told KNAPP to walk approximately thirty feet away from the car. At that point JULIAN turned the speaker on and pointed it toward KNAPP’s head. KNAPP said he felt a tickle between his ears and became nauseous. JULIAN turned the device off. KNAPP said later that he saw ANUBHAVO and ANUBHAVO told him that JULIAN had pointed the device at him and caused him to throw up. KNAPP said, another time JULIAN was experimenting with the use of Ultrasound. KNAPP referred to this device as a pain field generator and said that this word was coined by attorney JACK RANSOM. KNAPP said the device was plugged into the cigarette lighter and it would only work if it was pointed directly at the person. KNAPP believed it worked on some time of low frequency sound wave transmission.”

          The whole text can be read here:

          https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/73831/02-krishna-deva-fbi-statement.pdf

        • Arpana says:

          Never in my life have I been caught up in anything so dark and light across a spectrum, so amazing and so freaky; and in the ‘real’ world, yah, get nice or bland or rice pudding, and lots of fucking awful, which I fortunately haven’t had to deal with and I’m talking war zone fucking awful.

          • Graham says:

            Dark and light just weren’t compartmentalised as in the traditional religious/anti- religious world.

            • satyadeva says:

              Yes – and it seems some people mistook the ‘dark’ for the ‘light’ and indulged themselves accordingly.

              I agree with Arps, these revelations are thoroughly unedifying, to put it mildly. How did some of these corrupt characters, eg Julian, ever get anywhere near the ‘upper echelons’? Well, one obvious explanation is that the wrong people (or person) were (was) in charge.

              • Arpana says:

                We, that generation of westerners, were raised as Christians. The bedrock of that upbringing is that sex outside marriage is wrong. We had been raised to live by the Ten Commandments. He gave us permission, encouraged us to go against our conditioning, but didn’t give us a moral framework, a set of rules to function within, and that is the world we came from, where we functioned from a myriad rules. So on the one hand, we were being encouraged to be bad Christians, while up against our training to be good Christians.

                Is it any wonder all hell broke loose? A mass catharsis.

                Like shaking a bottle of pop, and all those bubbles came to the surface, times 10000; and we were not individually and collectively very discerning, and when we were, we were so fucked up we didn’t trust our perceptions about anything much really. (Broad brush comment. Not intended to be the final word, a summation.)

              • swamishanti says:

                The doctor Devaraj was actually quite fortunate that the Jesus Grove crew chose the injection with adrenalin method, which failed, to attempt to assasinate him, as apposed to the other methods discussed by Krishnadeva in his FBI file,
                which included the idea of suffocating him with a pillow, and then injecting him with something lethal, or the other idea of simply stopping his car and shooting him (and Vivek), both of which ideas seem much more likely to have succeeded.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      The description of the effect makes it more likely to have been an ADS rather than a (sound weapon) LRAD.

      Active Denial System
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

      Long Range Acoustic Device
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

      • prem martyn says:

        BV…Blimey, who would have thought?

        I reckon one or two of my ex-gfs have been involved in these things as just by thinking about them I feel nauseous…

        Apparently, though, they remain immune to black magic despite my best efforts at chanting their life-force back to them with a version of ‘abracadabloodycow’ from a distance of 3300 miles.

        I have written a book about mindfulness and passive/aggressive riot control called :
        ‘Over-active Frontal Lobe activity, suppression of the social ‘Id’, by using a twelve volt car battery and coat hanger – a Beginners Guide.’

  5. swami anand anubodh says:

    Where’s Julian? You could always ask Sean Penn.

  6. prem martyn says:

    Did Julian have glasses and dark ginger hair? Did Ma Poonam have a relationship with him just before and during Medina? I’m just wondering, not accusing.

    Does anyone else recollect the development of sonic riot control machines by US companies and that were considered for use in Northern Ireland and then refused legal licenses there for operation in the late 70′s-80′s? If you google the subject you’ll find its use was in Kirgistan and in Pittsburgh in 2009 at the G20 riots.

    Sinister people like this Julian person are unlikely to be on the run…probably part of the misery-creators employed by those for whom abuse-and-lies is a pleasure of the State machinery and what it creates in its own image.

    These revisitings and exhumations of facts are important reviews of an aspect of the commune but they should not be defined as determinant of a failure. Nothing as significant as Osho’s impression on our lives can be determined a failure, because it just isn’t framed by regret, but by the dignity of our inspiration and celebratory, sponsoring friendships.

  7. prem martyn says:

    Thanx, Arpana & Tan.

    You know, I get all my best intentions from reading and self-improvement…

    https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/291381/the-ladybird-book-of-mindfulness/

  8. swamishanti says:

    I remember opening up my Rajneeshpuram bumper-pack a few years ago, and finding, amongst some rolls and some rather bitter, poisonous-tasting materials, some kind of competition to win a revisit to the Ranch (I think it was on this site).

    Anyway, not sure if they won the prize draw, but someone did go on a trip back and revisited:
    https://youtu.be/ZKly7Hfib5w

    Look out for the gachamis.

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Thank you, Swamishanti; I give it a try, because the last days I have been denied entry into the Chat and have a sense why, or quite better said, ´what for´.

      Anyway, I cried seeing the landscape and ALL, and the ritual of the Gachamis, which I always made (did let happen) from very deep space in my heart and quite less with a ´personalized meaning´. In the vid, it had good GRACE of the few visitors to let that ritual happen this way! Just to acknowledge and respect ´something´.

      Your contribution , Swamishanti, brings me to dare writing again here-now, just to thank you for the picture & sound.

      Otherwise, if you, Arpana, can´t stop cynical grinning, calling that ´smiling´, it’s also very easy to detect for me, just by your tone, and I wish I could have found ever more harsh words for the cynical bastards a few days ago, also happening here from the very beginning!

      And – Prem Martyn, I experience you not quite that way; sense you more a hooligan gamer in the whirling troup – but pretty much always (besides your so-called mostly very vain, long, long scientific approaches) you show heart, and that s what counts. That´s what really counts. Even and more so nowadays!

      Yes, thanks, Swamishanti.

      I knew German Navyot with her lover visiting the Ranch after the fall, but I didn´t feel easy with her. And wasn´t close to her and so I missed her report, and that is long ago too.

      (Btw, some few of those I have been really, really uneasy with – as in Germany, as in India as in the US, as in England etc., as on the Ranch, I found in the various FBI reports. However, I don´t feel that we can take all of it literally, but the most.
      A lot of advocate´s ´deal-making´ has been happening these former days, one has always to take that into account, doesn’t one?

      And Parmartha, what I want to tell you, as the very decent, very English Editor here, is that I am always stunned, so to say, that some UK or some US natives have been in our ´story´, and maybe up to nowadays, really fascist pigs, but that doesn´t lead to a trace for some modesty here, to ponder about their own fascist tendencies.

      As a German woman I grew up with that stigma and worked upon and with it and in it. Before Sannyas, and always. Awareness to its best capacity, and although I am lazy I have been very busy with that, believe it or not. And by that I want to say, maybe others could do some work too, looking inside themselves, before ever again repeating stuff.

      Quite often I missed that feeling here (and elsewhere), a kind of dolby global surround awareness according to that aspect of matter.

      Globally – times are really changing.
      Aren´t they?

      Madhu

      • Arpana says:

        “Otherwise, if you, Arpana , can´t stop cynical grinning, calling that ´smiling´, is also very easy to detect for me, just by your tone, and I wish, I could have found ever more harsh words for the cynical bastards a few days ago, also happening here from the very beginning!”

        Keep your paranoid scapegoating to yourself. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

      • prem martyn says:

        Vanity of the scientist, eh?

        Well, thank you, Madhu. I suppose it’s better than the vanity of an artist…

        which could be lethal…

        I might have to go hang myself in public….

    • Parmartha says:

      Thanks, Shanti.
      Here is part one of the Arun visit:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yY_4VqSe0o
      Also evocative for those such as myself who were there long enough to recognise places quite easily. But also a weird feeling!

      • swamishanti says:

        What, so nowadays is any old sannyasin allowed to go to the Ranch, roll out a prayer-mat and do some gachamis, and then go on their way?

        Do any American disciples practise this?

        Could the area become a pilgramage site, perhaps?

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          “Could the area become a pilgramage site, perhaps?”

          No way, I guess, Swamishanti. Fortunately. Strengths of Nature in that area is immense.

          Just bowing down to acknowledge and also appreciate in gratitude that we have been allowed to be a short episode there –
          And – beside the ungraceful stuff also left some water-drip system, a few trees and cultivated spots, which can be used up to nowadays to have some spaces green and others now using it – and who knows about the future ´human stories´ passing by? Being written in the winds of the silent mountains around.

          Some rituals just happen naturally, to bow down to something bigger; that´s what I got out of it from the vid, giving Gratefulness a kind of frame.

          These rituals, I love the best.

          Madhu

          • samarpan says:

            Beloved Madhu…
            Thank you. You have beautifully expressed it: “Some rituals just happen naturally, to bow down to something bigger; that´s what I got out of it from the vid, giving Gratefulness a kind of frame. These rituals, I love the best.”

            With or without the gachamis one can feel that gratefulness. I still value the gachamis.

            “Prayer means surrender. Prayer means bowing down to existence. Prayer means gratitude. Prayer means thankfulness. Prayer means silence. Prayer means “I am happy that I am.” Prayer simply means that “This tremendous gift of life is so much for an unworthy man like me. I don’t deserve it, yet the unknown has showered it on me.” Seeing it, gratitude arises.”

            Osho. ‘The White Lotus: Discourses on Fragmentary Notes of Bodhidharma’s Disciples’ (1981, Chapter 2)

        • Kavita says:

          SS, I enquired with a sannyasin friend who I remembered had been to Ranch around 2012 or so and according to that friend the whole area was auctioned & a Christian organisation bought it and they have camps there & it’s open to public. Sannyasins can also participate and apparently the old residents do miss the ‘Rajneeshees’!

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antelope,_Oregon

          • swamishanti says:

            Wow. So Christians are now living on the Ranch, and some of the old residents miss the Sannyas colours, with their guns, their gachamis and their “gooroo”.

            I wonder if they miss the generous attempts to poison the local water supply, and salmonella and arson. And Osho called Jesus a nutcase, who may have been homosexual, and stated that their whole religion was rubbish.

            Still, old timers can still go and visit the place and do camps, and do some meditation in the hills.

            Perhaps Julian is still hiding out there in the mountains somewhere, with his ginger hair blending into the desert landscape. (Actually, I think I might have seen him in UK somewhere, giving out Jehovah’s Witness magazines).

  9. shantam prem says:

    Believe me, if am part of the new management team of Osho Foundation International, within few months feelers will be sent to Ranch, how we can buy some part of the property again and create Osho Resorts in collabration with established companies in resort and wellness business.

    The Resort model is fitting with the western mindset and in the West.

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

      Within days of you riding into the Resort on the back of a Prozac-fuelled elephant to rapturous applause from your facebook followers, your first task after installing your ample buttocks in the chair on the podium and clearly elucidating Osho’s vision to the confused baboons, will be to assemble a crack squad of `feelers`, mostly from the hallowed Bhoratic soil of Jullundur to go to the Ranch and feel out some of the bouncy local Christian talent!

      Inspired by your recent group meditations down at Koln railway station, it is clear that the western world needs more feelers from the East!

      Bhai, the future of Osho`s dream is clearly in your,er…hands! Grip firmly and do not let the opportunity slip away!

      Yahoo!
      Hari Om!

  10. Lokesh says:

    Shantam declares, Believe me, if am part of the new management team of Osho Foundation International.
    Thing is, nobody will believe that is ever going to happen. Shantam has displayed very many negative characteristics over the years writing on SN, none of which could possibly bring one to the conclussion that he is capable of running an international commune. Even in his latest post he is still rattling on about Western mind, oblivious to the fact that mind knows no international boundries. It is simply the mind. What would a resort fitted to Eastern mind include? Bad sanitation, perhaps. Or how about mob mentallity. Well, I am sure Shantam has his ideas, although it is doubtful if anyone is interested in any of them. After all, it’s all in his mind.

    • shantam prem says:

      Lokesh, you are a intelligent man but some kind of academic discretion is missing. This little knowledge is a dangerous truth.

      How ignorant is to say, “Mind is mind and there is no collective difference in eastern mind and western mind.” Go to an educated doctor, he will tell you even two kind of coughs are not the same.

      This Advaita simplistic nonsense you follow cannot take people too far, including you.

  11. shantam prem says:

    In the world of conformist disciples, Shantam Prem is a Donald Trump. Pity, he is not that rich.

    Good part is, he is not that poor either to make money from religion. So a right choice to be the Chairman of Inner Circle.

    P.S:
    Don´t freak out, conformist Rebels, Chairman is only for 18 months to 24 months. Every SOB Chairman has to be an average Joe again.

    • Lokesh says:

      Shantam, please explain the difference between Eastern and Western mind.

      • shantam prem says:

        In nutshell, it is like a difference between poetry and prose.

        • Lokesh says:

          Shantam, that is very poetic, but it is hardly an explanation, by a long shot. In a nutshell, you do not have the wherewithal to describe something you started. Do not be surprised if confronted by the fact that nobody treats anything you say earnestly, including myself.

          The old East/West dictum is pretty much obsolete today. There is no longer a divide between East/West, psychological or otherwise. Back in the sixties and even earlier there was hope that there would be a positive East/West amalgam. It was hoped that the East’s inner values would curb and influence the West’s tendency towards a materialistic value system. What we have taking place now is quite the opposite. The West’s materialistic value system influenced the East to the extent that easterners have become westerners…they just want more of everything. The world has become united under the banner of consumerism.

          Osho himself fell prey to this. He consumed valuable things with an insatiable appetite. Watches, clothes, cars. A lesson for everyone there.

          I believe you yourself would not put as much energy into your failed crusade if you could get your material trip together. If you drove an expensive car, lived in a big house, ate at fancy restaurants etc. you would no longer experience the need to try and fix things that do not need fixing. You would then be just like the vast majority of people, content with what you have, instead of discontented with what you do not have.

          I understand your difficulties, having spent some time in Germany. There is no other place in Europe quite like it for having one’s nose rubbed in the shite of materialistic values. Every time you walk down the street you are confronted by what you do not have. And thus you adapt an apparently spiritual value system to compensate for what you do not have on the outside.

          I say “apparent”, because there is actually nothing spiritual about what you are doing. It is all a front, because you do what you do for all the wrong reasons. Had you any real spiritual conviction you would long ago have realized that trying to change what is external to you is an exercise in futility, that the only change worthy of effort is inner. As you believe so the world will appear.

          • shantam prem says:

            Lokesh,
            Can you ever accept your perception is as limited as anybody´s else’s? It is based on your personal experiences, education and conditioning of all types. If you realize it and accept it, some humility may arise. Otherwise, you will be like cowboys, who compare the size of their dicks to pass the time and have jolly good time.

            I wonder what kind of real spiritual conviction you have or someone else have? Spiritual conviction? Is there someone on the earth who does not have?

            Anyway, the reminding of you and others shows how childish you feel that nobody here takes me seriously. First of all, none of you are my target readers. In my understanding, we are supporting each other to express our own self. My posts bring some words out from you, the way your post is the base of this post. I will be very stupid even to think I want to impress anyone here. It will simply be a pure wastage of time.

            • Arpana says:

              Shantam,
              Can you ever accept your perception is as limited as anybody´s else’s? It is based on your personal experiences, education and conditioning of all types. If you realize it and accept it, some humility may arise. Otherwise, you will be like cowboys, who compare the size of their dicks to pass the time and have jolly good time.

              • shantam prem says:

                Thanks Arpana, for underlying my words.

                Is there someone who expects more from you?

                • Arpana says:

                  Shantam,
                  Nobody has anything to learn, about anything, from you.

                • anand yogi says:

                  Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!

                  Clearly, you would not waste your time writing for the prosaic Anglo-Saxon western baboon-mind which cannot understand the words of great poets of mighty East like Kabab whose words flow forth from the source like the flow of effluence from a public toilet reserved for diuretics with colostomy bags on the banks of mighty Ganga during an outbreak of incontinence in rainy season!

                  Clearly, your poetry can only be understood by the invisible readers whose continued silence proves the truth clearly!

                  It is perfectly clear that your ejaculations here are no more aimed at the readers of SN than your nocturnal emissions will reach the porn studios of Kyoto and Osaka!

                  And do not worry, Bhai!
                  Just because Cowboys have bigger dicks than Indians has never stopped us from claiming the compensations of religion! The mighty lingam of mighty Bhorat is bigger than all of them, and more poetic, also!

                  Walk on by these barking dogs like an elephant, bhai! Those who have eyes to see can certainly see in you the elephant man chasing a white elephant on Prozac!

                  This certainly demands the appropriate level of gravitas!

                  Yahoo!
                  Hari Om!

                • Tan says:

                  Thanks, Yogi, a good laugh in a boring, rainy, dark Sunday, it is most welcome! XXXX

            • Lokesh says:

              Shantam asks, “Is there someone on the Earth who does not have Spiritual conviction? Yes, a great number of people.

              He also says, “I wonder what kind of real spiritual conviction you have or someone else have?”

              I cannot speak for someone else. Some of my current convictions are:
              My apparent life on Earth is only a part of what I am actually composed of.
              I believe that what I do counts.
              I firmly believe that it is important to give my best in whatever situation I find myself.
              I try to embrace whatever life brings to me.
              I believe that real change always comes from within. I am sure that my inner world governs my life and therefore do not try too much to change what is external to me.
              If I feel good, the world is good, even with all of its apparent cruelty and madness.
              Nature is not a source of great compassion.
              I honestly believe that all violence has as its source the false notion that there is an individual self that needs to defend itself. If that notion were to be abandoned on a collective level human violence would immediately cease on this planet.

              The list goes on. I have many convictions that could be loosely described as spiritual.

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                Thanks for sharing ´some of your current convictions´, Lokesh.

                What I really appreciate about most of your posts is that they have kind of ´flesh and bones´ and one can as easily imagine you taking out the garbage or sweeping the floor…or making music…or enjoying a book…or…

                Getting ´real´ in the virtual realms is something really nice to see and a surprising gift – also for the recipient/reader.

                And would like to add:
                In what luxury we are all living, aren´t we, to have time and space and ability to even ponder about such stuff? And I presume that you´re knowing that too.

                Madhu

              • Tan says:

                Lokesh, you totally burned Shantam. He got Teached!

                Love your posts, they are very existential. Somebody wrote here that SN bloggers talk about “theory of Sannyas and don’t go deep enough and blah…blah…” Hope he reads your post.

                Cheers!
                And I hope everything is going fine for you! XXX

                • shantam prem says:

                  I don´t think Lokesh is that paper-thin man who will start flying by the phoo phoo phoo of some women.Only some faceless woman can gush victory for her boxer, when the other has not even felt, was it a punch?

                  It is really wise to have a wise enemy than foolish friends….

              • prem martyn says:

                Lokesh,

                Having written what I wrote and you writing yours, I then chanced upon the following link to a Portuguese philosopher (going down the Camus-Kirkegaard trail).

                https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/7816.Fernando_Pessoa

                I like the odd spot of lyrical waxing and didn’t have a notion of what I was writing as being potentially made of existential absurdism – but of course, it’s clearly of that ilk…

                However, I chanced upon this guy who marries both intensity and futility to the same raison d’etre:

                “To be great, be whole;
                Exclude nothing, exaggerate nothing that is not you.
                Be whole in everything. Put all you are
                Into the smallest thing you do.
                So, in each lake, the moon shines with splendor
                Because it blooms up above.”

                (Fernando Pessoa, ‘Poems of Fernando Pessoa’)

                I post for others’ delectation (and because the video on ‘glottal-stops’ in English pronunciation was just far too…violent – it massacred my attention span).

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          The “nutshell”, where this comment is coming from, is very narrow, Shantam Prem. If you would enjoy the poems of Rainer Maria Rilke, Heinrich Heine, Pablo Neruda, Walt Whitman, Alan Watts, the Koans of Japan and China, the paintings and the ´Theatre of Dreams´ of a Joan Miro, just to name a very, very few of my favourites, you would know that poetry knows no border.

          And some of the here mentioned are sitting with a Rabinandrath Tagore as friends. As there is no time in such(ness). Their spirits visiting places of human conditioning beyond time and geographic lines. Osho spoke about that too.

          However, not all poets live in circumstances that they are not murdered (the one or the other way), like Pablo Neruda.

          So – as trying to come back to the topic – it may be a crucial point, what is being made out of their buddha-nature- like messages for mankind as such. That India played a special role in letting all kinds of ´dreamers´ survive is nowadays a myth, in my view.

          And trying to come back to the topic, Julian James and his big contemporary company of similar “nutshells” and this kind of ´nutshell conditioning´ of spying, I would say that none of those psychopaths ever came close to understand and enjoy a poem as a flavour of something unnamable, yet with a deep respect for human conditioning and living individuals; love letters for the unknowable in words, ringing bells in the universal spaces of the heart of humans.

          Madhu

  12. prem martyn says:

    All of our responses to life, our interactions with it – our notions of self, our full or partial ‘dissolution’ of this, what interacts with us and the outcomes we experience, are existentially adaptive.

    We adapt constantly and in all areas and this is our truth. That is as salvationist as it gets. Out of which we ‘have to’ adapt experience and redemption together.

    ‘We’ adapt to conditions and circumstance and perception. The I that organises is the same as that which is organised. Whether limbic (broadly emotive, non-rational) autonomic (neurological-reactive-responsive ) or somatic (physical -voluntary-cognitive ). It is therefore atomic and is both particle and wave at the same time in this ‘field’. That is the wondrous anarchy of this.

    The notion that there is or are qualities of transcendence that immortalise this and which have reference, reason, rationale that are not at the same time entirely irrational, unreasonable – and without reference; without anchors of use, purpose and function – that exists in some version of mutualised, immaterial Truth or non-invested annihilating Love, is our perceptive ‘invention’ which correctly serves and has to serve a very, very shaky and vulnerable existence. It’s the winning lucky number on the lottery ticket.

    Truth and justice may be useful, they may also be entirely misunderstood as definitive of existing.

    This is ugly beauty in action.

    The evidence for this in the polarity of experience is also not the deductive reasoning behind it, because otherwise it would be part of the cognitive rationale. ‘Proof’ is also partial and subject to adaptive alteration or irrationality. The irrationality which suffuses each and every ‘why’ that we have.

    Pleasure and Pain is the resultant experience of our ‘relevance’ or lack of it.The more irrelevant we are, or imagine to be, the more suffering we experience or that we construct .

    The same kind of fiction that we consider ourselves protagonists of – some unbridled truth, compassion, or even agents of singular or collective love or universal love that is utterly composite, capable and self-reliant – is a joyful myth that too is adaptive to the totality of utter uselessness.

    That we remain unobliged and also without conclusive agency is a Trump-ism of existential proportions.

    Being reductive though, is not restorative of our adaptive FORTUNE.

    And so we adapt…

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      “Truth and justice may be useful, they may also be entirely misunderstood as definitive of existing” (Prem Martyn).

      What a strong statement (amongst others of this kind) in your ´exegesis´, Prem Martyn, followed then on the foot by:
      “This is ugly beauty in action.”

      Could you enlighten me about the latter? Or find an example out of your lifetime? That I can understand?

      Madhu

      • prem martyn says:

        Madhu…

        In our personal lives we all come across forms of heartbreak and betrayal. We may even cause this in others.

        What this page is about is ostensibly how the dark got hold of the light. Even briefly on the surface of things. Let’s just go with the idea that the cock-up wasn’t planned as some lesson thing or that Osho knew all along what a stupid cow Sheela was etc., for the purposes of my reply.

        It’s a perennial and daily question which I refer to philosophically, if that interests you: In order to adapt to living fully we have to include absurd cock-ups – and worse.

        The idea that a brick wall is transformatory (never mind wanting to get even with the malevolent other) – just let’s focus on the inside bit…inside us.

        Sannyas community offers the opportunity to be transparent, reducing either the attacking flak, through explanation of motive, or reducing the fall-out through an expiation of fault, culpability, confession, responsibility.

        Osho and Sannyas apparently were and are an opportunity to be coherent with that transparency, at least by request, invitation and mutuality.

        The Buddhists, including the Dalai Lama, cannot go as far as we have in human relations because they don’t believe in them. Shag-less. We as sannyasins want the full personalization of human interaction and the full abandonment to it. We are Helter-Skelterists par excellence. Buddhists couldn’t manage to lift the chewing gum off a shoe without a guide book. They have wanky monasteries divided into young pre-pubescent bored boys and orphaned girls. We have sleeping around with each other, and paying whatever dues you have to pay along the way.

        When you go on a Helter-Skelter, or invite a goon housewife and her mates to run the mental asylum of Disnsannyas world, you trust not in the outcome but in trust itself.

        At least on paper.

        So back to the personal life. When people whom one gets close to with all the transparency available, invited etc. then use that to scheme and plot etc., then you know someone is gonna get hurt. As far as communes go you can then do some checking of how that happened.

        Osho probably did, but it’s unlikely he took it personally. “What people do says more about them than it says about me” was his gambit.

        Of course, if it is personal then it’s a whole different ball game, we are forced to ‘adapt’, reconstruct whatever absolute version we had of ourselves so as to just keep on walking upright. Sometimes we choke on the dust raised. It’s not fun. It’s shit.

        Each intimate realationship that we have is the best time we have to get healed and offer healing back. Relationships are meditation, they are love to death and through and beyond…If ordinary heartful relationships offer that, then relationships are also potentially absolute hell.

        Buddhists walk around in blankets, wank a bit, chant and say it’s all in the mind. If that turns them on, fine.

        I prefer going to hell and back – at least I’ll meet all my friends there…

        Thankfully, up to now it’s only the/my heart that has had to take on other people’s muck in my case. My body is not (yet) decrepit or injured in disease.

        Today, I went out to town and a wonderful accapella bunch of five lads and lasses were singing a great version of ‘Hallelujah’.

        “Thank goodness the heart cannot think, for if it did, it might surely stop.”
        (Fernando Pessoa)

        and

        https://vimeo.com/116336220 (‘Apocalypse Now’)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6JMhcTQ06o (Marlon Brando in the Nihilist classic by Joseph Conrad, ‘The Heart of Darkness’)

        • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

          Thank you very much, Prem Martyn, for your sincere response the other day; I just happened to discover it only this cold and grey afternoon…today – here…

          But you know what?
          The quote you chose from Fernando Pessoa I also got especially hooked upon yesterday…and what a nice synchronicity is that…

          The ´Apocalypse Now´ stuff still has a little time to wait.

          Madhu

  13. prem martyn says:

    …and are adapted, in turn.

  14. shantam prem says:

    East/West Dichotomy:
    The thought which arose in an Indian mind with Osho touch while sitting in German Sauna!
    One can write a complete essay over the differences or the similarities, it won´t help. Logic can tear down any academic paper. I think in the world of cults, sects and churches, Osho readers have got the sharpest teeth to bite. So it won´t help.

    Just today, there was a quotation at Osho.com, in my own words, mind looks in either/or way whereas heart looks both/and way. So I won´t take the trouble.

    The thought which arose was when I go home I will ask ladies and gents of Sannyasnews, “Have any of you gone through any relation with Indian woman or Indian man? In case of Indians on the board, question is in the reverse order. Only through intimate relating one can see the differences and also similarities. Bookish knowledge is more or less like an internet porn: Indians watch maximum western women in action, yet can they claim they know the essence of western women? How much Pakis and Indians living in UK have the taste of British mind?

    By visiting Indian gurus and reading their literature creates the ground but not that in-depth understanding which one gets through one-to-one Intimate Relating.

    Osho is the one who opened this door for us. Without His ashram, people like me would not have got the broadband view of life.

    My chairmanship will also bring this basic change in the Osho Commune International that more and more Indian women of 21st century are encouraged to meditate and find the western love partner. India and Indian women are ready.

    • prem martyn says:

      Shantam,

      Its virtually impossible for two people who share a common foreign language to share the same intimacy in the voice, in my experience.
      Which is essential in determining emotive affect and register and attunement (mutual identity)
      I venture to suggest that unless one is oblivious to the sound of the human voice, or one overlooks the intonation of a foreign accent, then the charm or personality of the other’s expression becomes affected by an invisible barrier.

      I can’t tell you how quickly I lose interest when I realise that the other is struggling to not only find the vocabulary, but the speed, the tempo and the charisma of the intimate voice to express the most intimate parts of theirself and unfortunately that happens to be in English for practical international reasons. The language that is functional, limited, vowel-sound-poor, glottal, swallowed,abbreviated, emotively-motherless, male and… English, becomes coloured by irrelevant foreign sing-song. Think swedish accents, or russian, italian, american , australian, african..and of course indian… a pot-pourri of international English.

      So despite personally trying to bridge the internationalist gap, I believe and have experienced that there is a great difficulty on a personal level of language use that can and does handicap relating and relaxing deeply and fluently with self-expression. This likely includes the other senses too. I’m bi-lingual myself and notice the shift every time I change language.

      Although Indian women are some of the loveliest, personally speaking I find listening to the inflection of the Indian lilt on English maddening, because it strips it of even its limited emotive vocal modalities almost entirely and replaces it with someone speaking through a nasal tube whilst adding the sound of water glugging out from a glass bottle. Grouping words without inhabiting them risks losing meaning. Twice this happened to me in relationship and it was never easy, but not yet with an Indian lass.

      Its like listening to the average Brit destroy French from being the sexiest language in the world to sounding like an Eskimo with a cold. Brits call this the ‘Edward Heath’ franglais.

      However there is hope. Its amazing to hear native English-born people with Indian parentage get all the right inflexions and even more amazing when its accented in Welsh or Scottish.

      Because the Brits are as a nation crap at learning , using or interacting in anything but English ,unlike say, the average Dutch bus conductor, then we remain unfortunately isolated.

      That’s why we should all encourage the kids to live and partner up with foreigners, because then they grow up being truly multi-lingual like a lot of sannyas kids did.

      But some of us need to get out more to try out your theory.

      And I doubt the 18-35′s are needing that advice from here.

      If anyone has contrary experience , please feel free to contrarily write-in.

      Je will etre tress content de recevie vous opinion, tut sweet.

      • shantam prem says:

        Martyn, you are proving my point, how much difference exists on mind level.

        In primary schools it is ok to teach ‘one earth, one humanity’, but in reality there are hundreds of walls. It is good to enjoy the differences rather than pretending there are no differences.

      • Tan says:

        PM, totally, absolutely, completely, entirely agree with you. XXX

        • prem martyn says:

          Viva, o Carnaval!!
          Chikky boom, boom, boom!

          • Tan says:

            Welcome!!

            • shantam prem says:

              Nice to see some glimpse of you, Tan.
              Thanks for this courage.

              • Arpana says:

                A compliment from you is as worthless as all the other opinions you spew up.
                You have no credibility.
                Your opinions are worthless.

            • prem martyn says:

              Tan,
              You’ve got Shantam all excited – either that or he’s been bitten by the Sikkher love bug.

              (P.S: If that’s you in the pik, then I’m Donald Trump).

              Ahemm…My fellow Americans….

              • Tan says:

                PM, this pic is an homage to the Carnival in Brazil which is starting this week. You reminded me of that in your 6:56 post on the 1st.

                The Carnival is like Dynamic Meditation. If, at my age I looked like that, I would be a millionaire by now, selling Osho therapies as a font of youth and advertising myself!

                Now, I am not surprised that Shantam got all excited, master Yogi already explained why. Right, Donald Trump?

                • Arpana says:

                  Tan,
                  Here is your new name:

                  Tan Tan Chikky boom, boom, boom!

                  ✍☺⚖❂

                • Tan says:

                  Arps, I have a sannyas name and now I have a SN name. How cool is that? XXX

                • satyadeva says:

                  “The Carnival is like Dynamic Meditation.”

                  Presumably, minus the anger, hatred and pain (etc.)?!

                • Tan says:

                  No, Satyadeva, there are anger, pain, hatred and mainly helplessness…XXX

                • satyadeva says:

                  But during the carnival itself (which is what I meant, ie not the underlying conditions of the poor)?

                • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                  When I spoke of beauty, Tantan, I didn´t mean just the pic, but me coming across documentaries about the favelas in Brazil and elsewhere in South America long, long ago.

                  Being in awe, I can say about humans on the verge of starving, who lived and live for that dance with and without all the other stuff of crime stories also known about gangs, drugs, so-called ´beauty operations’ etc. etc. Just in awe about people developing their very way to get lost in the dance.

                  Btw, I don´t know if Osho’s Meditation by now could turn the wheel of the nasty stuff because that nasty stuff IS global. And there are as various responses to that as there are individuals or areas on the planet.

                  Seeing docs, I´ve been in awe about the courage of some of these favela inhabitants to make their survival a celebration at their best.

                  Madhu

                • Tan says:

                  “I’ve been In awe about the courage of some of these favela inhabitants to make their survival a celebration at their best.”

                  You got it, girl! Things in Brazil are much better now in the favelas, but still…

                  Did you know that the greatest Brazilian songs came from the favelas? Poetry, as well. There is no hate! Maybe they are not worried about the neighbours’ religion? And there is a place for fucking God? (Please moderators, leave my fucking there). Cheers!!

                • Tan says:

                  Satyadeva, about your 2:09 post on the 6th:

                  Yes, it is forgotten for 3 days, what to do? At least for 3 days. Cheers!

    • satyadeva says:

      Lokesh’s response is spot-on:

      “…there is actually nothing spiritual about what you are doing. It is all a front, because you do what you do for all the wrong reasons. Had you any real spiritual conviction you would long ago have realized that trying to change what is external to you is an exercise in futility, that the only change worthy of effort is inner. As you believe so the world will appear.”

      No one, eastern or western, actually requires your guiding hand in these matters, Shantam. Given your track record, including the hundreds of simply foolish posts here at SN, you’d almost certainly screw up what was going perfectly well without you, and make apparent difficulties even worse. It seems you want to be an interfering busybody in others’ lives because you’ve created such an unsatisfactory life for yourself.

      Moreover, I doubt that anyone is fooled by this smokescreen of ‘concern’ for the intimate lives of others. Everyone here has long known that what you are really after is access to so-called ‘free sex’ with western women. “The rest”, as Albert Finney memorably said, “is just propaganda.”

      However, if you seriously entertain the notion that you have even the remotest chance of ever being trusted to hold any responsible position in ‘Osho ‘politics’ then there truly is less than zero hope for you, sir!

      • shantam prem says:

        Yesterday afternoon I got the sms from my ex-wife and mother of my elder son, “Do you want to come with me to Gootesdinest(church service) as the church will be handed over to the university clinic for new auditorium?”

        Every chance to visit some church is a golden opportunity, and specially when it is the last service in a Victorian church. I have met my ex-wife in the ashram in 1993. She came as Bhakti but few years later reverted back to her original name Sabina and last year she joined the Protestant church again. I had tears in my eyes during that occasion too.

        The purpose of telling this is that I am sure what Lokesh has written at 31 January, 2016 at 3:10 pm is so poignant yet so common, majority of articulate religious westerners can feel touched by it and can write themselves too, maybe even better.

        My heart will say “Wow” to such people; the people who care not who is Osho, who is Punja Ji, who is this Indian woman Avatara, and yet with the sheer conviction in their history and its evolution touch the in-depth version of their spirituality.

        I trust my tears. They don´t flow when someone plays too smart!

        • satyadeva says:

          “Every chance to visit some church is a golden opportunity, and specially when it is the last service in a Victorian church.”

          Thus speaks Shantam Prem, our man at the cutting edge of 21st century spirituality!

          Unfortunately, however, he’s not available to give a live report from the frontier as he’s been crying uncontrollably for almost 24 hours – overwhelmed by sheer compassion…

          …for those as desperately, sentimentally stupid as himself.

          • anand yogi says:

            Perfectly correct, Rev. Shantambhai!

            Again your credentials for becoming Chairman of the Board are dangled out for all to see! Your perfectly eloquent presentation of, and single-pointed crusade for the cause of the furtherance of Osho`s legacy has been so successful that it has driven your wife back into the fold of Protestantism! What a result!

            With you at the helm in Pune the Osho movement will surely be returned to the glory days! Why have the Resort owners not asked you to take over already? It is a travesty of justice!

            At last you have explained Osho`s vision to the prosaic baboons! Every true Osho disciple must one day return to the religion of his/her birth in tears of joy!

            Perfectly correct!

            Yahoo!
            Hari Om!
            Amen!

  15. prem martyn says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

    According to Camus, one’s freedom – and the opportunity to give life meaning – lies in the recognition of absurdity. If the absurd experience is truly the realization that the universe is fundamentally devoid of absolutes, then we as individuals are truly free.

    “To live without appeal,”[18] as he puts it, is a philosophical move to define absolutes and universals subjectively, rather than objectively. The freedom of humans is thus established in a human’s natural ability and opportunity to create their own meaning and purpose; to decide (or think) for himself. The individual becomes the most precious unit of existence, representing a set of unique ideals that can be characterized as an entire universe in its own right. In acknowledging the absurdity of seeking any inherent meaning, but continuing this search regardless, one can be happy, gradually developing meaning from the search alone.

    Camus states in The Myth of Sisyphus: “Thus I draw from the absurd three consequences, which are my revolt, my freedom, and my passion. By the mere activity of consciousness I transform into a rule of life what was an invitation to death, and I refuse suicide.”

    “Revolt” here refers to the refusal of suicide and search for meaning despite the revelation of the Absurd; “Freedom” refers to the lack of imprisonment by religious devotion or others’ moral codes; “Passion” refers to the most wholehearted experiencing of life, since hope has been rejected, and so he concludes that every moment must be lived fully.

  16. Kavita says:

    “The thought which arose was when I go home I will ask ladies and gents of Sannyasnews, “Have any of you gone through any relation with Indian woman or Indian man? In case of Indians on the board, question is in the reverse order. Only through intimate relating one can see the differences and also similarities. Bookish knowledge is more or less like an internet porn: Indians watch maximum western women in action, yet can they claim they know the essence of western women? How much Pakis and Indians living in UK have the taste of British mind?

    By visiting Indian gurus and reading their literature creates the ground but not that in-depth understanding which one gets through one-to-one Intimate Relating.”

    I do have few western men friends but frankly, intimate relating has not yet happened. To me, it has to click from both sides effortlessly to have a one-to-one intimacy, I guess it’s not a question of nationality, it’s question of simple physical chemistry.

    “My chairmanship will also bring this basic change in the Osho Commune International that more and more Indian women of 21st century are encouraged to meditate and find the western love partner. India and Indian women are ready.”

    Well then, in that case, keep daydreaming. In any case, no true 21st century Indian woman/any woman of any other nationality would be interested in your/anyone’s ideology!

    • prem martyn says:

      It’s the old mind-over-matter, Kavita…

      It doesn’t matter…as long as one doesn’t mind.

      I am currently building an igloo whilst singing Bollywood songs so as to be more appealing…internationally….

    • Kavita says:

      Actually, Shantam, I nam wondering why you didn’t mention about your own one-to-one Indian relating, or probably you didn’t have any due to to your immense respect for Indian women?! Anyway, do share, if possible.

      • shantam prem says:

        Kavita, i was just speaking with my astro friend about my wish to marry an Indian woman. I even asked him if he sees some compatible divorcee/widow, he can think about me.

        This is my way of connecting with my roots and also accepting Osho´s grand vision has flopped because of His disciples.

        • Kavita says:

          So does it mean you shall not marry for love this time? Maybe you are finally breaking your deconditioned conditioning! Anyway, Wish You All The Best Always!

          • shantam prem says:

            Maybe I should type a article about the triangle of love, sex, marriage or marriage, sex, love in social as well as in psychological context. Not just academic paper but honesty and experience of own´s life.

            This much I know, Kavita, we cannot wish anything else but all the best for us as well as everyone.

            In our case, this is because of Chai and Samosas of Koregaon Park, Pune!

          • anand yogi says:

            Perfectly correct, Shantam!
            It is time to return to your roots! You have been getting your root stuck in all the wrong places since 88-90!

            It is time to have a demure and obedient bride flown out from the Jullundur to expand your dole money and to reconnect your root with mighty Bhorat and also to ensure that you will have at least one person who might actually pay any attention at all to your magnificent outpourings of wisdom whilst wiping your botty!

            Indeed, it is certainly your only chance! Grab it with both hands, bhai!

            Osho`s dream has flopped like the vital organ of a man with multiple organ failure! It has been destroyed by his prosaic baboon-like disciples and their unpoetic western minds while you have heroically and steadfastly remained for decades like a beacon of unwavering meditation stuck to your chair at your computer screen, ejaculating with unfailing regularity!

            Your cushion at the Gurudwara awaits and in due course you can be despatched to the next life wearing the holey underwear of your ancestors!

            Yahoo!
            Hari Om!

            • shantam prem says:

              Cool.

            • Kavita says:

              Oh dear, how could I have missed these posts! Now I am wondering that I can miss the plot too!

              Btw, thanks for reminding about chai & samosa, Shantam. I am going to have them today, for sure!

  17. Lokesh says:

    Shantam declares, “It is really wise to have a wise enemy than foolish friends.”

    That may well be, although I might add that I could not be bothered to disagree with such a general statement. Let’s just say I have some foolish friends whose company I enjoy.

    I certainly do not view you, Shantam, as some kind of enemy, but rather someone who entertains certain delusions about himself, whilst living on the fringe of what is left of the Sannyas scene. You have come across my path and therefore I see it in order to give you feedback on where you are going wrong. I give it my best because that is how I live. Whether or not you decide to take on board anything I say to you is entirely your business. For my part, I have said and done what I see is my best and therefore I rest easy with that.

    • shantam prem says:

      Delusions about ourselves is a healthy psychology. Creating some kind of Ponzi schemes out of this is another matter. (Un)fortunately, almost all of us on Snews have not this extreme delusion.

      It is kind of you, Lokesh, to give me the feedback where I am going wrong. Even the feedback is limited in its orientation, I take it with open heart, for the reason not just through your posts but also personally I have spent some time with you.

      From my side, I won´t tell anybody where they are wrong in their spiritual journey, though this thing called spiritual journey is too an illusory concept. What the hell it makes the difference if someone touch E Point now or in few lives later because preparation was not good?

      But yes, I love to criticize. If I can put poison in my sarcasm I won´t hesitate, but this is reserved only for the king and queens of the real life chess players.

      • satyadeva says:

        “Delusions about ourselves is a healthy psychology. Creating some kind of Ponzi schemes out of this is another matter. (Un)fortunately, almost all of us on Snews have not this extreme delusion.”

        What the hell does this mean?