The Natural Mind … and Sannyas Conditioning

The Natural Mind by Khabira

(This article first appeared In Viha Connection ( and is republished with permission.)

Two years ago, I started studying psychology at the university again. I start with that statement because studying again is such a radical change for me. As a sannyasin, I used to think that the mind should not be nourished, not be used, that intellect and academics are stupid and misleading. I had started studying psychology at the university in 1977 when I was 17, and stopped it to go to Pune in 1978. Now, at the age of 50, I am back at it. What happened?

After going through years of commune experience, therapy, and meditation, I am starting to use the mind extensively again. I remember Osho saying to use the mind, but not be used by it. I seem to have forgotten the first part of the sentence for many years. Now, having become a naturopath and training in psychology, I know that any parts of the body-mind that are not used atrophy; they shrink and degenerate. When you do not use your muscles, they shrink, and soon they will not be able to carry you any more. The same goes for the mind: Pathways of nerves and junctions between nerve cells (synapses) that are not used degenerate, and soon will not be able to carry information any longer.

What is so bad about a mind that does not function very well? Well, in order to live an intelligent life, we need to plan, evaluate, and figure things out. And we’d better be able to do it well, otherwise we can easily mess up things. Also, mind does not get less through not using it; it just gets more stupid. Looking back, I see quite a few stupid things that I have done because of being stuck in what I now perceive as sannyas conditioning. The mind can get conditioned with anything. As long as we are not fully aware or enlightened, we have to be very watchful of what kind of stuff is put in the mind. And it does not matter whether it is stuff from the society or stuff from the sannyas community.

And sannyas conditioning is so much harder to detect because we are much more identified with it, thinking this is the way to Truth. The sannyas community creates a group mind of its own. Here is how Jack Kornfield describes this:

Unfortunately, the spiritual world can become as confining and narrow-minded as the rest of the culture; it seems that almost every religious community has its unconscious “group think”, its “in-group” behavior. (After the Ecstasy, the Laundry)

If having a mind is natural and it needs to be used, the only thing that can be done is disidentification. The need to disidentify from the mind, rather than not use it, got even clearer for me after I read the book Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) by Hayes, Strosahl, and Wilson. In modern psychology, the need for awareness, which is called mindfulness, and acceptance is being recognized more and more. I used to think that whatever goes on in the West about meditation is only second class, not first class like what we did in Pune, but I am finding that this is not true. It is getting clearer to me how natural it is to have a mind, and that the natural function of the mind is planning and evaluating. This is why evolution has created a mind in human beings.

With evaluating, there is also judgment. I have been fighting against judgment for many years, thinking it is bad and should not be done. Now I am coming to a very different conclusion, that judgment is one of the things the mind does naturally, and will always do. My job is to disidentify, not take it seriously, and be clear and honest about it, rather than trying to reshuffle the furniture in the mind. If I try to reshuffle, things just get messed up even more. In my relationship, I am finding that disidentification works. Sometimes I may yell at my boyfriend, “You are an arrogant asshole!”, and he may yell back at me, “And you are a whining wimp!” And then we just laugh at each other, enjoying the strong energy that is dancing between us. He may even be right, I may be a whining wimp sometimes – so what?

Another advantage of using the mind extensively is that after exercising the mind for a few hours, the mind gets really tired and meditation comes more easily. Maybe this is some kind of Dynamic Meditation for old age? Rather than catharting through the body first, we can cathart through the mind before going into silence.

For anybody who after reading my article now says “but Osho has said …”, here are two quotes of Osho:

“I do not have any teaching. My life is that of a rebel. I do not have a doctrine, a philosophy, a theology to teach you. I have only my own experience of rebellion to share, to infect you with rebelliousness. And when you are a rebel you will not be a copy of me; you will be an unique phenomenon in yourself.”
Osho, The Rebellious Spirit #11

“And then you say, “I like your teaching.” Have you ever thought what is my teaching? The question of liking or not liking does not arise — there is no teaching at all! Neither is there a teaching nor is there a teacher. I am not preaching a certain doctrine to you, a certain system of beliefs, a philosophy or theology. I am not a teacher and I don’t have any teaching, because I don’t have any belief: no God, no heaven, no hell. Just this universe, which is not a belief — which is your experience, my experience, everybody’s experience.”
Osho, Om Mani Padme Hum #29”

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68 Responses to The Natural Mind … and Sannyas Conditioning

  1. shantam prem says:

    Article is very fine, other than choice of Osho quotations. To me they seem like an Orange bra under the white T shirt, a bit of non fitting color scheme.

  2. vigyano says:

    Khabira beautifully describes the livelong search for happiness we all are in. A personal drama exclusively about us, about our private perceptions, interpretations and feelings and about our attempts to get any control over that.

    We often forget that life is about happiness and especially about the tricks to get there. What makes things difficult to me, is that we are deemed to think that solid truth will bring us there. No matter what this truth is. Astonishingly the opposite seems the case: It rather is active untruth – learning – that seems to do the work.

    Surprisingly mind and feelings seem exclusively about learning. All we get acquainted with, instantly vanishes in unconscious routines. It is learning, vulnerability and i.e. openness what makes the deal.

    That’s probably why Osho wanted to infecting us with rebelliousness. I don’t think that rebelliousness is the only remedy, but if done well, it surely can set fire to a life of learning and constant joy.

  3. fellow travellor says:

    Beautiful Khabira,
    enjoyed your interpretation of mind through no-mind
    thanks for sharing

  4. Khabira says:

    Vigyano, I agree with you. I am not saying how things are, but how they appear to me at the moment. Which may change tomorrow. The famous story of the 5 blind men trying to figure out what the elephant consists of. Many facets of truth. I am not awakened, but the trouble is, I have to live my life in the meantime.

  5. Kartar says:

    Thanks for the article, I really enjoyed reading it. Much more so than many of the other articles that appear on this website. It reminds me that life is really a precious gift. You have to unwrap the gift to enjoy it. The main problem as I see it is that many people think life is like riding a bicycle with two flat tyres. Then there are those that see life as a gift, but one so precious they will never unwrap it. But alas, we search in the wrong place for the wrong thing, not realizing that we did not lose anything in the first place. Stop searching and you may find what you are looking for, or consider that maybe, just maybe, there is nothing to find at all.

  6. Fresch says:

    YES Khabira, your way sounds healthy. You do not get stuck with sanyas only, but connect with the world, it’s a very good mirror. And you do not get dependent on sanyas shit conditioning which will lead to narrow cult behaviour and no freedom. You do not have to be afraid or jealous of ”normal” people and you can enjoy the both.

    You describe it just beautifully; having roots and fingertips in the sky with osho, but still connected with the world. ..well, not easy, but yes, making your life the way you want. Mind is what mind is…for me it’s lovely to read a Sunday newspaper or a good book or have an intense conversation about anything, or not do it for a long time. I love to leave all that behind and just dive to the crazy world of meditation, and then appreciate it even more (?).

    I liked your concecpt of “So what” with whatever behaviour: that sounds accepting life.

    Swami, you wrote it’s so intensively fun here that you will bring your friends also. Where are they?

  7. Lokesh says:

    Khabira. I appreciated your wee article, it is well thought out and you have something to say.
    I was just talking to my son yesterday, who spent five years in Poona One as a lad, and I was having a laugh with him about some of the baloney that is written on this blog. Some of the regular Sannyasnews bloggers are obviously not using their minds very well to present what they have to say here. What I mean by that is this, they simply blurt out whatever they feel, without considering what they say at all. Nothing wrong with that, yet these people seem to be taking what they say seriously.
    I will give you a couple of examples. One man on here stated the other day that it was ‘Our Osho’ who brought the master disciple relationship to the West. Apart from the fact that this is simply untrue it also reeks of mindless propaganda, which could only influence absolute idiots. My second example concerns asking someone what exactly they believe Osho’s work to be. For asking this I was lambasted with comments like, ‘Where have you been for the last twenty years?’
    The thing is that although talking about Osho’s legacy and his work seems important to certain people on this blog, nobody has supplied a coherant answer as to what continuing the master’s work actually means. My conclusion is that they don’t really know, that many sannyasins are lost in their minds and not using the miraculous tool that the mind is.
    It is therfore that I appreciate what Khabira has to say. I think your second Osho quote is of particular relevence.
    Osho was a very contradictory speaker. One day he would say something, the next just the opposite. It worked for him and his reasons for allowing the contradictory nature of life to manifest through him are all valid. Sannyasins on this blog are also saying many contradictory things and in my opinion it does not work for them, but rather makes them look foolish. The pendulum swings and they say whatever they feel like. Perhaps this goes with the credo of ‘follow your feelings’. One can only hope that they do not feel suicidal or psychopathic.
    Your point about judgement is a good one, because the sannyas scene always had a lot of judgement about judging.
    So, Khabira, you got me going. Thanks.

  8. Fresch says:

    Some people look things from different angles or process the issue or stream. Some people look form 70’s angle only.
    Oh, Lokesh, you came back to challenge people clearly…

    who was your guru after osho?

  9. shantam prem says:

    Just thought to translate one of Osho quotation. First time i have read this in 1985 on the back cover of Hindi book titled, Shiksha main Kranti(Revolution in Education).

    “My sannyasin will live in the world and also in Parmatma(the supreme soul, God) and the bridge that is in between; of poetry, of beauty, and of love; he will make this also beautiful, utterly beautiful.
    For sure, Nobody will accept this complete human. In the east he will be condemned, in the west also will be condemned. But nobody can stop him. The time for this complete human being has come.”

    I don´t remember a single time, Osho prescribes a closed door approach to Sannyas; His sannyas is to embrace all the life from gutter to the Sky rise.
    Therefore if a Ma joins M.A. course in psychology at the age of 50, i don´t think it is against any kind of doctrine or a revolutionary step. On the contrary, Khabira will be able to bring much diverse wisdom before her clients if she gets the practising license after the degree course.

    If the boat of sannyas movement seems like closed door ship in the middle of the muddy island, it is not because of Osho but the truck drivers who want to be the Captains.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Lokash this is for you. In a sarcastic tone you have written, what exactly they believe Osho’s work to be.

    Let me try to answer this question, though i am not a high profile authority on the subject called Osho. but may be point the finger as a disciple/devotee.

    In 1988, there was a newspaper report about Osho, mentioning Him as one man spiritual industry. so let me use the business language to avoid the emotional contents which always follow the spiritual terminology.

    In a business language, Osho developed certain product as intangible as the product s of insurance companies and yet as effective as the medicines of Pfizer or Novratis.

    Again when we say Coca Cola or Pepsi, what comes in the mind?
    When we say Kellogs or Mcdonald´s , what comes in the mind?
    Same is about Nokia, IkEA etc.

    Exactly in the same lines, think what comes in Mind when we say OSHO.
    and i will be very grateful if some one adds another name on the same range with Osho, the way Pepsi is with Coca Cola, Burger king is with Mcdonald´s, Hundai is with Honda and so on.

    When i say, Osho´s legacy it is about the fact that way of life developed under the observing eyes of Osho should have been left untouched at the roots level i.e. Pune.
    Any one who has been going regularly to Pune can see how cruelly and arrogantly few people have chopped down that product which was taking the shape of Neighbour´s envy, owner´s delight.

    It is not a question of good intentions of the managers, but about the honesty and integrity. Osho´s team of managers should learn from Coca Cola.
    Original product is the core business yet with the changing times and country specifications the company goes on adding new products.
    Just today there is a report in the press, “Men who drink too much Coke, get the risk of low sperm count.”
    Does it mean, CEO of Coca Cola stop the production.
    “No, not at all.”
    In Osho´s world it means people who think they don´t want to celebrate Osho´s birthday festivity, because it will give their Brain jerk as if it is Xmas, are free not to participate.There is no guilt or condemnation involved, but Officially it will be celebrated as it was during Osho´s life and time.
    It rages me like a bull when i listen some Managers saying, ” sorry, we cannot display Osho´s photos because new people don´t feel any connection with this man or this clever statement, No we don´t have any more five festivals, for us every day is a festival As if old man did not know about this.”
    This is a misadventure with the legacy and also last ten years have shown how the people have rejected their approach.

    The legacy is Not to change the recipe of original hamburger yet go on adding new products fitting with the core values. This is what made OSHO unique.

  11. shantam prem says:

    and Lokesh, read your own paragraph-
    “The thing is that although talking about Osho’s legacy and his work seems important to certain people on this blog, nobody has supplied a coherant answer as to what continuing the master’s work actually means. My conclusion is that they don’t really know, that many sannyasins are lost in their minds and not using the miraculous tool that the mind is.”

    If German is your mother tounge than you know, such person is called “Der Streber”.
    Please use the miraculous tool called MIND, and if they don´t really know, than please share the coherant answer yourself.

  12. Kartar says:

    Khabira reading Osho’s book Satyam Shivam Sundram will help, especially chapter 7: A Beautiful Servant, A Dangerous Master.

    If you don’t have it it can be downloaded from the link below

  13. Lokesh says:

    The legacy is Not to change the recipe of original hamburger yet go on adding new products fitting with the core values. This is what made OSHO unique.

    Oh….ehm..thanks for that unique take on the situation, Shantam Prem.

  14. Swami Detective says:

    Lovely article Khabira. Beautiful article Khabira. Superb, super, wow!

    So you have conditioned your mind into the view that going on a psychological mind trip is a valuable exercise. If you do not use your mind your IQ will go down and therefore you will behave in harmful ways. This is another conditioning and it is an utter lie. I know many simple people that have the most beautiful minds. I know many highly intellectually people that have the most cunning and dangerous minds. Disidentification is routinely stated as the aim of the buddhas. You just found that one out at uni did you? Acceptance of where you are on the path is another striking realisation! You forgot to mention that a balance need be struck between acceptance and the rebellious fire of the seeker, else apathy set in.

    Vigyano, your partner would have been outside the main gate of the resort let me guess say 15 minutes after the blast. I assume your partner never saw Dhyanesh up until the point that you arrived at main gate. Also, it seems that at this time main gate security informed you that Dhyanesh was responding to a call from Sannai guard. I take from this that Dhyanesh did indeed leave the resort shortly after the blast. So what was he doing all this time?

    I also do not understand why the Taiwanese national and a severely injured person was left aside and the police were just picking up body parts, such that you had to try and get a vehicle to take them to hospital?

    A third point is that if the Sannai guard contacted Dhyanesh, then what, did he call Dhyanesh’s room. Was Dhyanesh having a meeting with Jayesh in his own room. I would say more likely he beeped Dhyanesh. If Dhyanesh was contactable by the Sannai guard, then why was he not contactable after that?

    What was Dhyanesh doing all that time?

    What was Jayesh doing all that time?

    What did Amrito do, other than get drunk at the party?

    The resort, and the Osho community, has received many warnings from this guy Abhay, and not just about many practical issues at the resort, and not just about the drinking water contamination, but also about the very incident we are discussing.


















    Less than two months from the blast we have the following.

    Prem Abhay // Nov 20, 2009 at 2:38 am

    Yes Shantam the establishments (in)ability to provide basic services like clean food and water give me much hope for their (in)ability to provide adequate response to the issue of religious violence.

    Prem Abhay // Nov 21, 2009 at 8:33 am

    Over the years, and especially in the last ten, all the problems that have come up have been swept under the carpet. Then a nice collection of lies are made up to condemn any questioning, and the media is also fed these lies if need be. The reality is that the problems remain, and can only fester as they remain untended.

    This systematic problem has reached a critical limit in many areas – as I have stated many times. Perhaps the most serious problem has just arisen: the Headley terrorist connection.

    The resorts current position, via Sadhana, is that systems are now in place at the Resort to deal with the circumstances. She is unwilling to explain any details as this may compromise the value of the systems and plans. From the historic pattern of incompetence and lies I find the official position distinctly dubious. Based on the past pattern, it is likely that an entirely ignorant, adhoc, inconsistent, useless, and incomplete plan is now in place. I have absolutely no faith in the resorts official deceptive mask, and the Pune police are either entwined in the corruption and ignorance, or are more so incompetent and corrupt.

    If there is the threat of terrorism from Headley and his cohorts, then it is more than likely to be well planned, well trained for, and well executed. I have little faith in Dhyanesh and his little army of thugs. In fact, based on information provided to me, Dhyanesh has a little file at Interpol that states that he tried to set up a Westerner for a murder. The corruption and criminality by the establishment should be investigated and exposed. Only in this way will the underlying magnetic potential for conflict or be removed.

    The truth is that the last ten years of Resort growth has been expansion into the genre of religious extremism. This type of extremism either invites people of a similar mind-set to come into the fold, or to be pitted against them. It is an inevitable consequence of the underlying reality of religious fanaticism undertaken by the establishment – that has alienated the majority of the Osho movement.

  15. Khabira says:

    Shantam Prem, the flip side of my article is that any use of the mind needs to be firmly rooted in meditation. Without meditation, the mind can run amok and take us into very weird places. And meditation is the individual responsibility of each one of us, nobody else can do it for us.

    I remember in Pune 1 in 1979 when Osho was giving individual energy darshans. We were all crazy about getting those darshans and wanted to have them all the time. There were certain rules (and exceptions) about them, for example workers could get an energy darshan every three months. And then Osho stopped giving them. I heard that He had said that there was no point of giving them any more, as they had not fulfilled their function. He had given us those darshans so that we would take His energy into our meditation afterwards and help us go deeper in our meditation. However, instead of doing that, we were constantly going back to Him for more and more.

    Maybe now that Osho has left His body and the Buddhafield has disappeared, it is time to take the energy we received from Him to go deeper in our meditation and to help us grow. Even though I agree with some of the things you say about the resort (lack of photos, lack of celebration days), I do not think it helps to continue lamenting that other people aren’t more enlightened than we ourselves are. And yes, it hurts. And yes, it can be a very alone affair, if we do not happen to be around a bunch of people who happen to go in the same direction at this time. But then, why not take the challenge? In my psychology studies, I have just learned that challenges are very healthy for human beings. Taking a challenge leads to even physiological changes in the human brain which make the brain more healthy and more mature.

  16. Swami Detective says:

    Vigyano, or indeed anyone else, if you would like to contact me the details are as follows:
    My name is Prem Abhay (The Gardener)

    Leopards in the Garden.

  17. Khabira says:

    Kartar, thanks for the tip. Just had a look at it. Great lecture.

  18. Harri Om says:

    If you would like to correspond with me about democratic reform or any other issue the details are below:
    Prem Abhay (The Gardener)

    Leopards in the Garden.

  19. Prem Abhay says:

    If you are interest in contacting me about the water or indeed any other issue the details are below:
    I am Prem Abhay (The Gardener)

    More leopards in the Garden.

  20. Lokesh says:

    Khabira. Another good post. You say: I have just learned that challenges are very healthy for human beings. I am quite surprised to hear you say this because it is such a fundamental thing to be learned. I can only suppose that we have to learn different things at different times in our lives. Yet it still seems surprising. Osho spoke about the need for challenge. I recall him saying that George Gurdieff said that if we did not have enough obstacles in our life we should create some new ones. It makes sense.
    On a personal level, I’ve never needed to create more obstacles in my life, because I’ve always been supplied with an abundance of them. If one lives long enough plenty of obstacles will come. That is why it is said that growing old is not for the faint-hearted. One thing is for sure, overcoming obstacles, the ones that make you grow inwardly, often involves a certain degree of pain in one form or another. Growing pains. Ouch!

  21. Lokesh says:

    Fresch, You ask…who was your guru after Osho?

    I don’t really see an ‘after Osho’ in my life. Such was the profound impact on my life that came with spending years around him he is, in a mysterious kind of way still with me.

    In the West the word ‘guru’ has, sadly, become synonymous with charletanism and the idea of people being duped by a spiritual conman. This has its roots in what happened to The Beatles during the Sixties while visiting the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in his Rishikesh ashram. In more recent times we have scandals involving various spiritual teachers including Osho, who did much to tarnish the title guru. Soon we will have a blockbusting movie called ‘GURU’ to watch, staring noneother than Osho, Sheela and Shiva. This will further damage the reputation of the title ‘Guru’.
    Taking this into account, I never really saw Osho as my guru. I saw and still see him as a ‘spiritual friend’.
    To conclude I’ll leave you with a quote from one of my favorite books.

    The true self is like a magnet which draws you gradually towards itself. That divine magnetism will guide you on the path. As I’ve already told you, the real guru lives in your heart. All others are merely fingers pointing at the moon. There’s no need to become attached to a finger. Look at the moon directly and one day you will come to realize that it is the supreme being who is the real guru.

  22. Khabira says:

    Lokesh, what is new for me about challenge is the resulting beneficial physiological changes in the brain that can be measured.

  23. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, from which book is this quotation from?

    Any way, how so ever image of the Gurus may be tarnished, the market is still booming, in a way it was never such a lucrative work.
    Indian gurus are spreading their wings to annual world economic forum in Devos. Some Bhagwan from South India has ashram in hunderds of acres, and western are pouring their heart and money out. and if the PR team does good work, no doubt we will see soon one guru from Banglore, HH/SS getting Nobel Peace Prize.
    Just yesterday, i have seen the brocher of 16th rainobow festival in Baden Baden, one could see also all these fashion designers of psycho spiritual industry trying hard to catch the home grown market of the west.

  24. Lokesh says:

    Khabira, I kind of figured that the challenges you were referring to would be as you describe. I am a writer and every day it is part of my discipline to write for some time. The challenge of creative writing does wonders for promoting movement in the synaptic channels. A simple case of use it or lose it, I do believe.
    Shantam Prem. Another quote from that book is in my mind a suitable response to your latest post. Here it is.

    Remember also that a real spiritual master is not the one with the most followers. That kind of teacher, although proclaiming that they speak the words of truth, are in reality bogged down in the mire of commerce. The real preceptor is the one who creates the most masters who are no longer in need of his or her guidance, masters whose sole purpose in life is to create love where love did not exist before, and in so doing help mankind ascend the ladder of spiritual evolution. It’s not worshiping a guru that is important, but the depth of your devotion to the pursuit of truth.

  25. shantam prem says:

    Beautiful and delicious quotations, Lokesh.
    Yet curiousity is there, whether these burgers are from O in its original language or translated or from some other source.
    Khabira, it is always a joy to listen or read what sannyasins say. Your writing too has that profoundness and honesty.
    Yet it makes me wonder from pure psychological prospective, why our collective mind does not represent this wisdom and fluidity. it is like studying the socio psychological aspect, ” “Why the country of rich people is poor?”

  26. Lokesh says:

    Shantam Prem…..Those are fresh, recycled boogie burgers.

  27. Khabira says:

    Lokesh, ‘use it or lose it’ applies to things which we simply do a lot a lot of the time. (Surmountable) challenges trigger a different reaction in the brain: first, an unspecific arousal. Then, adrenaline gets released within the brain, energizing a person. The stimulation of adrenaline receptors in the brain, release of glucose and other factors lead to an enhanced learning capacity of the brain. If repeated challenges occur, adrenaline gets triggered more easily and is processed more efficiently and intensely, new neural adrenal pathways grow. In this way, if a person faces multiple complex challenges a lot of the time, this leads to an optimal expression of the genetic potential.

  28. Fresch says:

    Abhay,hhhaaaahhhaa…you are a character, I mean really. You manage to include a serious attack into your personal reverence trip. Thank you, do not disappear, you are very good. As for OFI’s IMAGE, you fully support current management with your writing.

    Lokesh, I read you did get hurt with osho or sanyas somewhere on the path, which I can understand. I hope you are melting or healing that with just where ever you are..osho is not a guru for me, never was…I do not know what he is; he speaks from inside me, but I do not get him:)

    Khabira….”if a person faces multiple complex challenges a lot of the time, this leads to an optimal expression of the genetic potential” WOW I will be high on this one for a long time. YES! I have been wondering why sanyasins do not bother to do scientific work on meditation…this is kind of information would be interesting and helpful to have. But what do you think of the connections with energy darshans(=rush of adrenalin for sure) and getting addicted to adrenalin? I love dynamic, and often my friends tell me I am just addicted to the rush… I wonder. but there is a healthy way of producing adrenalin like you do when jogging (if not obsessively) How is it explained?

    Swami Martyn do not disappear, and where are your friends?

  29. Fresch says:

    Swami Detective, you must be Amrito writing here…

  30. martyn says:

    i want to disappear but its so much nicer to disappear and then to be wanted…

    Fresch .. Energy Darshan …Its done and dusted as an event now so no amount of theorising is gonna help on that one. Just think Orgasms. See its not the same to use the mind…….. in some areas it just doesn’t help..: ) . !!!

    Its good to fucked by your master…either directly or through his commune….the effects tend to last. for better or worse..!!

    Osho is not a Guru for you? Can we help…..Have you seen his brother on Indian Cable vision .. he’s hilarious …its ssssssoooooooo funny to see someone suffering terminal envy , even wears a robe and Osho hat. Last time I was in Kerala I couldn’t believe my eyes watching the telly. No i cant remember the name or channel..he does though have some terrible film editors….Maybe someone else knows the site. If you try his brother I guarantee you’ll end up rolling around the floor like in mystic rose but for different reasons.

    I tell my friends that they really need to support me and they have all agreed how wonderful cussing and dis -cussing Osho is, but most of them strangely have to take a dog for a walk…

    I really cannot add to the intellectual vigour of these fora…… I mean I’m too busy saving the world , myself and ….avoiding eating other vegetarian mammals to even consider the effects of a lifetime spent being a self declared seeker…but I have a few salacious gossips of the people I have known which only a very advanced Osho group would have me reveal…. or make that a book deal and an envelope stuffed full of international currency.

    bye for now and spread the fun

    cheers m

  31. martyn says:

    ## typo alert 3rd paragraph :-

    ” Its good to be……..”

    now i’m
    really outtahere

    love laughter and keep it light


  32. Tara says:

    Hi Kabira,
    thanks for your article. I’m curious about where you are studying your psychology course. Are you in England? I would like to do the same but finding funding prohibitive.

  33. shantam prem says:

    Martyn, i agree with your 3rd paragraph from the core of my heart-
    Its good to be fucked by your master…either directly or through his commune….the effects tend to last. for better or worse..!!

    I request the trustees and managers of that great place to rediscover the inviting ways so that multitude of people can have this far lasting experience, when hundereds of present day master characters are offering back rubs and scratching.

    And if you cann´t, than leave the place for others to recreate the atmosphare of that great fuck, Martyn has mentioned above.

  34. vigyano says:

    Swami Detective: Apr 7, 12:31 am

    Don’t become too cynical. I liked your capitals and I think you’re right by emphasising that the resort management did less or nothing that really protected its guests at that evening of the blast. Also water quality in the resort seems a item of great concern I understand.I personally never got in trouble by that.

    To me social life is sharing. Sharing positive feelings and energy as well as sharing comments, irritation, sorrow or grieve. From that point on, it is to others to take conclusions. So in this case to the resort management and future visitors.

    But what does this future look like after the G B Blast? Most of the tourist shops which lined the resort were illegal and are gone now. The perpetrators aren’t captured. Maybe they are still around or just waiting for the next season. Is the Resort still as a target on their list? Is a place like the Osho Resort really to protect? What about maroon or white robes, ideal to smuggle anything inside? And less a detail, what about this management, seemingly out of contact with the world outside, alienated, some drinking and some possibly mentally traumatised as i.e. Jayesh after what he went through in the Mumbai attack?

    How does this future actually look like? To me a dangerous picture, not suited to sweep under any carpet by those who want to visit this place. However, what to do being in charge here? Not an easy question to me, also realizing the way the Indian police functioned till now these terror cases. (see i.e.: and also page 9 and 10)).

    Maybe we have to learn from wise guys like Martyn and Santam Prem. Just look to the shy or something else, close your eyes and keep it light.

  35. martyn says:

    Vigyano ..’close your eyes and keep it light…” (just allow :) )

    Vigyano how do you know those famous instructions when we preparing for energy darshan…Were you there too?? Cool !


  36. martyn says:

    Shantam Prem

    Thanks for the note of concord there…TING OMMMMM

    and I really I have to go I’m surrounded by male energy….im not sure I want to keep the sex metaphor talk going….but on second thoughts I guess thats what its all about…

    explosions are fascinating to men ..either inwardly or outwardly…

    seems khabira talks about one and the men talk about another….

    Whats new?

  37. Khabira says:

    Fresch, the adrenaline rush you are talking about is a different thing. In this process, adrenaline is a hormone which is released into the blood in situations of stress. The adrenaline that is released in the brain during challenges is adrenaline as a neurotransmitter in the central nervous system. All these hormones/neurotransmitters have different functions in different parts of the body.

  38. Lokesh says:

    Khabira…If repeated challenges occur, adrenaline gets triggered more easily and is processed more efficiently and intensely, new neural adrenal pathways grow.

    Yes and it is a case for me of different strokes etc. I find that swimming in close proximity to large and sometimes dangerous marine species guarantees a good rush of adrenaline and I’ve always enjoyed high speed driving,,, as for neural pathways…have you tried DMT?

    Swami Detective…your mind is as sharp as a neurosurgeon’s scalpel. How do you sharpen it?

    Fresch..Lokesh, I read you did get hurt with osho or sanyas somewhere on the path,

    Just for the record- I did not actually write that, a misunderstanding has arisen..perhaps I did not make it clear. I went through a period of disillusionment with the sanyas movement. I had good reason to. I underwent an extremely rude awakening, which almost ended with me having a permanent out-of-body experience due to some idiots who were posing as physicians. Life goes on and a lot of water has passed under the Bund Garden Road bridge. I still have a lot of sannyasin friends, but I also have a lot of friends who know nothing of Osho. One could say my social horizons have expanded.

  39. Swami Detective says:

    Khabira, Hitler and his henchman achieved tremendous feats of military, scientific, and engineering brilliance. They were unparalleled in their capacity to torture and build superhighways. I would say their synaptic links were at genetic or superior level of functioning.

    Freschee, did you break a few synaptic links in dynamic?

    Vigyano, if you new even half the story you would likely be more cynical then me. Yes it is up to others, including management, to respond or react as they see fit. That is why when Abhay stood outside the resort and handed out a Water Contamination Report he was met with violence. It demonstrates the value they see in the Water Contamination Report. At least it shows they are not entirely without synaptic links. Just a general pattern of cross-wiring I suppose. I think a year or so later a guy stood outside the resort with a sign saying Osho is Free. It is a little funny and you can laugh and it really does not matter so much. Hence they removed him, but not in the way that they dealt with Abhay. What is in the Water Contamination Report is an ugly truth, and the resort knew that. That is why the reaction was so strong. Vigyano, are you so naïve as to think that many and varied subtle approaches have not been taken from the enumerable number of sannyasins that have eventually walked away. The list would include not just unknown gardeners, but also the majority of the original Inner-Circle.

    Yes Vigyano you do not know about the water, but you have worked out the pattern as applied to the terrorist incident. Every indication is that the resort management responded in a dangerously ignorant fashion. I also do not see any reason why terrorists will remove the resort from their radar. The resort has taken no strategic action in this regard. So the threat remains, the incompetence goes unchecked, and it is business as usual. Dhyanesh will order a few people out of White-Robe for sneezing, Amrito will get drunk, Jayesh will flutter in and out with great secretive pomp. People will view the splendid advertising stunts, read the edited populist literature, and come in their throngs. They will worship Jayesh for his wealth, they will desire Amrito for his distinction, they will envy Dhyanesh for his courage and compassion, yet they will be ignorant of the unfortunate reality. They will also be at risk. It was the same with the water for many years. Perhaps it is all better now. Perhaps everything will be better now. We have Smartyn, Lokesh, and Khabira to shower us all with irrelevant yet sometimes sharp insights. Yes I am sure that everything is good now. But just in case, I may try a little self-reverential touch if I see fit.

  40. Fresch says:

    Khabira “The adrenaline that is released in the brain during challenges is adrenaline as a neurotransmitter in the central nervous system.” Thank you (even of course I know it in other level:)))…) This is why what you are doing is HEALTHY!!! One narrow point of view to it.

    Lokesh, your period of disillusionment is part of the path for every one of us (in many different ways). That’s why these open discussions in for example sanyas news are so good. To share the path, to find all kinds of ways of healing.

  41. Khabira says:

    Swami Detective, I was talking about a well functioning mind AND meditation. As I wrote in my second post, mind without meditation can take you into very weird places. As far as I know, Hitler did not meditate, neither did the other criminals you mention.

  42. Khabira says:

    By the way, I mean actually practising meditation, not talking or thinking about it.

  43. Lokesh says:

    Fresch..yes I catch your transcendental drift. More than anything, these wee discussions are fun for me and sometimes even a challenge.
    Hitler and his diabolical gang of henchmen were not meditators, but they were heavily into smack and coke.

  44. shantam prem says:

    MEDITATION, Meditation oh dear Meditation, you are the Viagra for the well functioning mind and Cialis for the throbbing heart.

    People should not just think about you or talk about you, but for a complete effect, just like the blue tablet, at least once in a day, you should be absorbed in the blood.

    Being funded by the public money, many universities in the west are getting involved into the clinical effects of meditation. My fellow participant in weekly Dynamic meditation just told me today that many clinics in Germany offer Dynamic to the psychosomatic patients.

    I don´t know whether few of my favourite world politicians, who are almost touching the pinnacle of meritocracy do any kind of meditation, yet they are doing wonders in the world of policy making for billions plus people´s benefit and mustering the art of reaching to their opponents for consensus .
    On the other side, i was sitting for years with my fellow sannyas policy makers for 7PM meditation and without any personal malefic i won´t hesitate to say that they have proven utterly mediocre and stubborn to the extent that they are not willing to listen their own colleagues, the fellow disciples of the same Master.
    When these people speak about Osho´s guidelines, has someone ever felt that they speak in the tone, ” We have heard Osho saying”?
    Thousands of hours of Master´s preachings, teachings, gossips all recorded word by word, Meditation with the LIVING master for years and years and yet…no patience at the level of conflict management.

    Yes..meditation.. you are wonderful but only for normal size people. Those with XXL ego may even expand further.
    Is my hypothesis baseless?

  45. shantam prem says:

    Below is the link, How the ambitious and power centric people use religion, meditation and devotion.
    In this regard, Hindu godmen are having much bigger garbage bin in their head than Any of Osho sannyasin.

    Interestingly one American paid this swami a fee of $400,000 for the workshop and the enlightenment certificate.”

    Meditation, Oh meditation, how you purify the soul of normal human beings yet make the XL egos corrupt, cunning and kaput.

  46. Swami Detective says:

    Khabira and Lokesh, you fail to understand the differences between consciousness, unconsciousness, and (sick or healthy) mind. If you had the opportunity to chat with a great tyrant, you will find them extremely lucid, and I would say of reasonably high consciousness. Yes they may be able to hypnotize the unconscious masses into war, but they themselves are not part of this deep unconsciousness. It is not their consciousness that is the problem, it is their mind. They are in the possession of a sick mind.

    If you have a thought like let’s say “wouldn’t it be nice to kill someone”, then as a normal, sane person you would view this thought as a bad idea and as coming from your repressed bundle of unconscious anger. However if this thought repeatedly pushes into your consciousness, and in the right (read that as wrong) social environment, one day you may have that thought and decide to give it a positive rather than negative judgement. Then it belongs in your consciousness and then a psychopath or serial killer is born.

    Of course the more conscious (or meditative) a person is the less likely this is to happen. Also, as you rightly point out, the more conscious (or meditative) a person becomes, the greater the chance of the sick mind becoming healed. In other words, a separate consciousness will be able to witness the rage and the thought “wouldn’t it be nice to kill someone”. The rage dissipates and the thought loses its life force. When you become less identified with this, as you rightly point out, you as ego are no longer attached to (or positively identified with) this ‘evil’. The so called ‘evil’ will have less potency, and be drawn back to where it belongs in the unconscious. Hopefully this person continues to grow in awareness and remains in a nurturing environment. Then the process will never happen again.

    Just have a look at Sheela. She is highly conscious. She was for a time a caring and sensitive being. She is now in a caring and sensitive role of looking after the terminally ill (or the dying or whatever). Yet this women poisoned, conspired to murder, and attempted to murder. It is not her consciousness that is the problem. It was her mind. I hope that no longer is the case. I sincerely hope that it is not the case for the current people in powerful posts within the Osho movement, despite it looking to the contrary.

    Copyright © 2010, Swami Detective

  47. Swami Detective says:

    Only the deepest of wounds has the latent potential to pierce or penetrate the field of consciousness and become host of conscious mind.

    That one is free.

  48. vigyano says:

    Consciousness, feelings, mind and I? Is there any control or what so ever? Is it you or life, that is leading me? This copie of the copycat. Is my believe or non-believe that unseen flight of no control? Every touch seems wee inserted as the soil or dirt of what comes by? This very collection in which non is mine?

    :©) ha ha

  49. Lokesh says:

    Good rap, Swami Detective. Reminds me of that mass murderer back in Buddha’s time. Apparently he had killed 999 people and had a finger from each victim strung around his neck. Must have stank like hell. Victim numero 1000 was to be the Buddha. The killer got word that Buddha was in the area and ran up to him, intent upon murdering the sage. Such was the power emanating from the holy one that the mass.murderer fell at his feet and begged to become a disciple. It is rumoured that the collector of fingers became enlightened.
    This has always been a favorite story of mine. It says much.
    I’ve met a few psychopaths on my travels and yes, some of them were in a warped kind of way very conscious, or perhaps to be more precise very alert. There was a light in their eyes that reminded me of the look one sees in the eyes of a hungry shark on the hunt for some protein…cold and matter-of-fact, one might say.
    Well now, that is enough bedtime stories for today.
    Swami Detective, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…you are sharp.

  50. Swami Detective says:

    Vigyano is a seeker of the sought which is unknown, unseen, unfathomable, and ultimately not able to be sought.

    Lokesh I thought of that story, but could not remember his name, so told of Sheela instead. They say that the flip side of compassion is cruelty. Both dwell in the sixth chakra thats spins behind the physical eyes. This is why those of immense cruelty and those of immense compassion both have the same glow. It is also why one should be very wary (read that as aware) of those with a hypnotic glint in the eye. They have the capacity to draw you towards heaven in the case of a great buddha, or to send you to hell in the case of a powerful psychopath.

    I do not understand the story in its completion. As you say it may in part be a heightened level of outer awareness (which you call alertness) with an almost non-existent level of awareness of their inner world (which people traditionally call meditation). I also do not think that is all the story anyhow. Sheela and the psychopath in Buddha’s time are testimony to this. That is why I think it is more in line with what I said previously.

    If a person is extremely outwardly conscious (referred to as being very alert) then they may or may not have a low level of inner consciousness. This is the case for example of a lion in the jungle. If I were to meet a lion in the jungle, I may be almost enlightened, and so have a very high level of inner consciousness. Perhaps say I am meditating deep in the forest and have almost found that which cannot be found, the hidden splendour. I open my eyes and shift my consciousness to what I see in front of my eyes, and behold is a lion ready to attack. If I were not entirely stupid I would direct all my consciousness towards this outer reality. All my external senses would be on high alert (also as a survival reaction/response). If I survive the encounter with the lion, and then fold my legs into the lotus flower, and go in, my little worldly adventure would have heightened my consciousness as it seeks to find the inner hidden jewel. The lion is the zen hit that may complete the journey.

    Now what if I was a mass murderer who was hiding in a cave? Perhaps I had just committed to death my latest conquest, and the police were on my tail. It is likely that I would have no ability to sit quietly in a lotus position in the darkness of a cave. The reason is partly because my inner world will be in utter turmoil. The mind and emotions of a beast in the jungle. The other reason is the lack of consciousness. To force such a person to stay still in the dark with sensory deprivation is to force them to see their inner hell. It is forcing them to see their reality, and their insanity. There can be no greater torment for those who do or will to do great wrong than to see their own inner world of torment. It is if course their first step towards redemption.

    So anyhow, if such a person were to meet a lion in the jungle, they too will have a high level of outer alertness, but if they survive the encounter with the lion, they will still have no knowledge of their inner troubles. In a twisted way they will for a while have a mind that is on the surface deeply excited or peaceful. This is the state of mind of a psychopath after a kill. Still, they will have no depth of knowing of their inner world.

    I would say that there are important exceptions. The psychopath in Buddha’s story is one example. This psychopath would be able to witness his thoughts of murdering. It is just that until he met buddha he saw nothing wrong with that. This is because his mind was sick because of his past experiences. Perhaps his mind was healed prior to enlightenment, or perhaps it was healed only after enlightenment. Sheela is an example of how difficult it is to heal a sick mind. Not even the wisdom nor the consciousness of Osho was able to help her. She was only helped by being thrown in jail for a few years. From what I have heard this time of outer sensory deprivation did not help much either.

    Lokesh I do not know myself if I am sharp or dull. There is something deeply wrong within the Osho movement. That I do know. Perhaps you could direct your evaluative capacity towards that. You do make an interesting point though. Why is it that the buddha’s mind is razor sharp. They speak of no-mind, of going beyond mind. So how does this fit with Khabira’s theory?

    If one always uses the sword in battle then it become blunt. Then the sword becomes an unwieldy club. What is it about an unused mind and a penetrating consciousness that sharpens the sword? I am of the view that alongside higher levels of consciousness are higher levels of mind. It is the same with levels of unconsciousness. Essentially at the highest level of consciousness of the buddhas one is in communion with the universal mind, the mind of God. There are physical limitations within the human brain, and of course using your brain will help in this regard. Unfortunately it is not the end of the story.

    I am of the view that one can also be in communion with dark emotions, and ultimately mental patterns that form out of this. You may like to call it evil mind, or perhaps the Devil. If it is your lot to experience difficult emotions and troubling thoughts for a time, it is your consciousness that determines how much you identify or become involved with these challenging experiences. It is like being at sea in a tempest. You do not have to drown in the wild fury of the ocean if you have a good boat. All storms pass into calm waters.

    Not surprisingly that is not the end of the story. It is also the social forces that surround you as you grow up that fabricate the type of mind you have. If your dad is always beating you and your mum senseless, and telling you that you are a worthless piece of shit, this can virtually hardwire your brain and create a deeply sick mind. In a perverted way you also admire your dad because he is your dad. It helps you form the view that beating people senseless is a good thing. If you keep going, you can get in touch with deeper and darker emotions and thoughts, and then you can walk this planet as an earthly disciple of evil.

    In a seekers darkest hour they too may witness the deepest secrets of the universe, but they remain unconsumed. A person with low consciousness or a sick mind (or both) actually lives in this darkness. It is to them their light.


  51. Kranti says:

    Just started reading the posts here again from today.. thanks to you all for sharing.. Just two days back i was thinking..

    Recently i happen to be in a budding religious cult ( not for following but to attend a marriage of my cousin who has fallen trap ).. The very first thing that struck me is the blind following which is encouraged.. Money and donations play a central role but that is the case everywhere..

    While i really liked this article by Khabira which is like breath of fresh air in this forum, i do not sinecerele belive Osho asked us not to use mind or follow him blindly.. There is difference between what Osho says and what his people follow.. If a sannyasin does not use his mind allowing it to waste it is not Osho’s fault..

    Having said that i also feel when we go through the process of disidentification from mind there comes a period when you are actually not using the mind as you can because you see its negative side but have not got the ability to disidentify or allow thoughts & emotions to pass thru as osho suggests.. so we suppress or stop using mind until we become aware enough .. i think it is part of the process of disidentification.. it will continue until we disidentify fully

    On any day i will live around this bunch of people called., Osho sannyasins than any other group.. This is not to degrade others but i see so much life in Osho people.. I dont see any other group where followers ( ? ) have the backbone to thrash its own master and organizations.. But was the same freedom available during Osho time? I had nevere been with Osho directlyt in Pune 1 and Pune 2.. atleast i think Osho never NEEDED blind following or encourgaed it.. this is my understanding ofcourse


  52. Kranti says:

    This was shared in facebook..If you guys had not seen please watch the video..good one.. somewhat relevant to the thread also relating to using mind…

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

  53. Harri Om says:





  54. Swami Detective says:



  55. Lokesh says:

    Swami Detective, I take my hat off to you for that long post you posted finishing with….It is to them their light.
    A remarkable stroke of synchronicity in that much of what you wrote was needed to be heard on my part, due to the circumstances of my life at presnt. A heart-felt thank you for that.

    You say: There is something deeply wrong within the Osho movement. That I do know. Perhaps you could direct your evaluative capacity towards that.

    Yes. perhaps I could, but not in depth because I have some thaings to attend to on this particular sunny morning in Ibiza.

    What I will say is this. It took me many years to come up with an integrated ‘warts an’ all’ vision of Osho and the sannyas movement. It still amazes me how Catholic sannyasins can double think that the debacle that was Rajneeshpuram was a device created for their awakening. Rather than seeing it for what it was…A magnificent failed experiment from which much could be learned for future social experiments. As for Osho himself, he will always be for me the most remarkable man I had the pleasure of spending time with. He taught me much.
    The story he told, that in this instance I find very significent is the following.
    An earnest seeker, after many years with a zen master, is close to enlightenment.
    ‘One more thing,’ says the zen master. ‘Go down to the village, check in to the inn and sit at the bar and observe the bartender, for that man is a master in his own right, and there is something fundamental about the nature of the enlightened state that you can learn from watching this man.’
    The candidate for enlightenment does as instructed and returns to the zen master two weeks later.
    ‘Well?’, says the master.
    The disciple replies, ‘I have no idea why you sent me there. I watched your so-called enlightened master for two weeks and all he did was appear every morning and dust the shelves. Apart from that, it was business as usual.’
    ‘It is the dusting off the shelves that I wanted you to note. Even once you are enlightened you can’t simply rest on your laurels, you must dust the shelves every day or the dirt of ignorance soon gathers and blocks out the light.’

    Or something like that. Osho told this story much better than I could. The thing is he also demonstrated the truth contained within it.

  56. shantam prem says:

    “There is something deeply wrong within the Osho movement…”
    Everybody knows yet people don´t discuss it openly.
    Who will tell to the Czar of North Korea,” Brother open your eyes a bit and see towards South Korea.”
    May be Khabira can ask the professor of psychology in her university about, ” WIll to Power”, and is there a meditaion to transform this will to power and dominate into,
    “Compassion to share.”?

  57. shantam prem says:

    Osho never NEEDED blind following or encourgaed it.. this is my understanding ofcourse–Kranti

    That is why, thousands of people were singing the songs mentioned below.
    ANd we all have the right to know, who got the right to put blanket ban on such kind of songs.
    Simple thing is Osho movement has got a third rate leadership on the command level. It hurts to say so directly, but facts point the finger.

    “Osho we your people
    From around the world have come

    We are gathered here to sing
    This our song of love

    Just as the trees dance in the wind
    Every heart rejoices again

    Just as the sun gives life to the earth
    Most beloved Master”

  58. Anand says:

    There is no ‘Osho movement’…there has never been an ‘Osho Movement’.
    Start from there…then look in the mirror, close your eyes and meditate.
    The rest is all mind gossip and on these site mostly from frustrated ex visitors to Osho resort aka Osho ashram.
    And if you guys like Lokesh did not find themselves visiting other masters like Ramana, why still stray in Osho’s backyard? Bored in Ibiza?

  59. shantam prem says:

    There is no ‘Osho movement’…there has never been an ‘Osho Movement’.
    Start from there…then look in the mirror, close your eyes and meditate.

    Anand, please tell to the directors of 17; koregaon Park to sell the property to the opposite side Hospital.
    Why to waste such prime property for teaching Auervdic Massage courses when it can be used for cancer research.

    Self suffcient meditators can order the copy of “Meditation- first and last freedom plus some Cd´s by post from their Amazon shop.

    Osho is gone, there was never any movement. Give a stress to Never with Capital N.
    Why these people don´t go home and meditate.
    and Why the hell you go to Pune for last 30plus years.
    cann´t you close your eyes and meditate in the home city.

    There is no ‘Osho movement’…there has never been an ‘Osho Movement’.
    It seems Osho was travelling from city to city for 20 years the way Rolling Stone were giving concerts.

    Was there a Jesus Movement or Buddha Movement or these things grew and still growing just like wild grass?

  60. Lokesh says:

    Anand, you ask…Bored in Ibiza?
    Obviously you have never visited this beautiful island, or else the question would not arise. They sell a postcard in tourist shops here, the caption runs….Bored in Ibiza? You are bored of life.

    Osho’s Backyard. Never heard of it. Is that the name of a Pune cafe?
    Joking apart…There is no ‘Osho movement’. Okay, okay, keep your white robe on. ‘Osho movement’…that is semantics…nothing to get upset about.
    You say…And if you guys like Lokesh did not find themselves visiting other masters like Ramana,
    Poo-pah. if you knew anything about what you are blindly trying to put down, you would not make such a contradictory statement.
    Perhaps it is time for you to look at what it is that you are so identified with that you feel that you need to defend it…even when it is not being attacked. You say: look in the mirror, close your eyes and meditate. Great advice, for all.

  61. Anand says:

    Yes Lokesh, I have been to Ibizia. You chose a nice place and I know some of the old sannyasins have settled there. Ibiza is a nice place and alwasy has been a connection to Goa, Amsterdam, Kathmandu since the sixties.

    My point was only that we are all individual people, not a movement. A movement can easy grow into a religion.

  62. shantam prem says:

    We are all individual people, not a movement. A movement can easy grow into a religion.

    What is wrong with that?

    The above statement is the flip side of the sannyas mind, dominated by the so called ex. Christians.

    How so ever individual people we all may be, still when more than one person comes in the picture, a family, village, tribe, city, country or may be another name another form takes place.

  63. Anand says:

    Shantam Prem: what is wrong with that? Check the recent history of the last 2000 years.

  64. shantam prem says:

    History of 2000 years.
    Jesus Sharnam Gachami

    Just listening Osho in Ashtavakra Mahageeta. It is not a question to whom you surrunder, main thing is you surrunder.

    May be the angry spoiled and little bit educated people from the west need to appreciate their heritage, under what circumstances their forfathers did, what they thought was right and just.

    I am not Christian but feel gratitude for the history of 2000 years than this new history of 20 years.

  65. Anand says:

    oh yes Shantam…all the history leading all the way up to the bombing of the German Bakery…hmmm. Do you read your German papers with the paedophiles scandals erupting one after the other…hmmm Shantam, gratitude. I think you are just completely blind on that eye.

  66. shantam prem says:

    Yes, Anand Paedophiles, witch hunting and crusades etc., i am well versed with the history of Christianity.
    And when i say gratitude it is for the folks, for the masses, for the people who pray, who trust and who work to bring thy kingdom on the earth.
    Priests and organisation takes a very back stage.
    And you can see in my writings i have all the love for the sannyasins, the seekers who trusted an Indian Master and travelled all the way from their home country and the parental belief.
    And i simply see a dead mouse in the robes of Ashram priests too, The arrogance of knowing all, the stupid aura of codifying the Master´s wishes and commandments. Priests are priests whether they add something in the original soup or they take few ingredients away.

    SO my gratitude is for the folks of 2000 years who felt nourished by some belief, whether they were bowing down before a orange colored stone in the remote villages or they were praying before a cross or they were meditating, fasting, dancing singing etc.
    It is the effort and resilience of these for fathers that we have reached to the level of We Pad.

    And i am utterly nerved by our organisation because some where the priest mind has creep ed in, the priest mind doing head stand, despite of 30 years of vaccinations.
    May be surgical instruments were poorly sterilised.

  67. Lokesh says:

    One thing is for sure. You lot are always good for a guaranteed sardonic laugh.