A Message from Swami Anand Arun and the Osho Sandesh Team
We are greatly saddened to inform you that from July 1st YouTube has terminated our YouTube Channel OSHO SANDESH MAGAZINE deleting all the 25 film issues of Osho Sandesh and many other videos from the Tapoban commune that we had posted on this channel. YouTube informed us that they had received a trademark complaint from Osho International Foundation signed by Kluas Steeg aka Pramod which stated that ‘Osho’ is a trademark that they own, and we could not use it, and they had therefore terminated our account.
Osho Sandesh is nothing but a medium to express our love for our master Osho through a creative medium of film that shows different spiritual activities happening at Tapoban and other meditation events inspired by the vision of Osho. Like millions of other disciples of different masters around the world, we as Osho disciples should be free to express our love, respect and discuss our Master and contribute our effort in spreading his vision as per our capacity. This is our fundamental religious freedom.
We are shocked that even in today’s free world we have to experience such oppression of the media and our freedom of speech that also from a fascist management whose members are filed for criminal offence of forgery for trying to forge a fake will of Osho that has already been proven forged in Europe and India. Also the same people who are the trustees of OIF in Switzerland are under investigation by the Swiss Authorities for the mismanagement of funds.
Apart from this Osho is a enlightened mystic and a master, not a business trademark. This dispute was resolved 15 years ago, when OIF, the same entity that is making this complaint, argued that no other person or entity could use the name of Osho because OIF claimed to own US trademarks for OSHO. The National Arbitration Forum (NAF) heard the case and ruled that even if OIF owned a trademark for the word OSHO (a title from the Zen tradition), it could not limit the use of the NAME Osho as it referred to a person millions of people around the world consider to be a religious teacher and mystic. (details- http://photos.oshoworld.com/ofi/legal-case/osho-world-website-case/ ) .
Shortly after the NAF ruling, a group challenged OIF’s claim to own US trademarks for Osho. After several years of litigation the US Trademark Trial and Appeals Board (TTAB) ruled that Osho is generic and descriptive as a reference to the person Osho, and that no one can own a trademark for this name. The TTAB also rejected OIF’s claim that it could decide for others whether or not Osho the person was a spiritual teacher. OIF had argued that it could declare Osho was not religious, and by doing that deprive everyone else of their right to discuss him by name or to discuss his teachings. The TTAB rejected that argument with the disdain it deserved.
Taking this into account, we feel sure that YouTube has to reinstate our channel and all the videos, it is only legal to do so. We assure you that this primitive and fascist effort of OIF to oppress the media and our freedom of speech and expression, has only made us stronger. OIF always chooses the medium of destruction; closing down websites, face book pages, taking down videos which shows OIF’s intention to narrow down and curtail the myriad possibilities of spreading Osho. And this only compels us to be more creative and make more beautiful films, as Osho says, “Creativity is the biggest rebellion in existence.” Until our previous channel is reinstated our videos will be available on our new YouTube channel OshoSandesh VideoMagazine on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfr7EaVQRsH9Fn3PzBDo-yA
We also request you to like our facebook page Tapoban International Commune and stay connected, so that we can keep you posted with more creative videos and pictures from this Buddhafield of the Master.
Remember, all that is needed for wrongdoings and injustice to succeed in this world is for enough good men to remain silent. Good people have done much harm in this world by remaining silent against unjust wrongdoings. This compels us to not keep mum about this unjust act of oppression.
Guess one has to fight one’s own battle in one’s own way , this doesn’t seem like mine , wishing both teams All The Best !
Agreed,K,
I am also not in the mood to join the Sunni`asins , Oshi`ites,Crusaders or Daeosh for a jihad this afternoon.
Or any afternoon.
As a Taoist I was wondering how strange it is that the gunmans` violent psychotic massacre on the beach triggered acts of spontaneous humanity from many everyday locals who risked their own lives for others
whereas on the other hand a masters` message of unconditional love can spark off vicious,bilious,nasty.litigious, and mendacious battling amongst `spiritual` types.
Is it a kind of yin/yang thing?
or maybe it`s just a total mystery.
Yes Frankie it seems more of a yin n yang thing coupled with a total mystery !
PS : & the courting continues !
“O Muslims, Islam was never for a day the religion of peace. Islam is the religion of war ”
These are the words of al-Baghdadi, the leader of IS who is believed to have recently been seriously injured by a US air strike in Iraq.
Bit different from the “Revolution of the heart”from
`Ol Baghdaddy` from Poona, isn’t it.
SS,
well yes,but we are Taoists around here and we like to exaggerate and imaginate.
Arun calls the IC “fascists” for getting facebook to take some videos down.
I hope he has paid his poetic license fee!
He should have a chat to some holocaust survivors,and the appeal about t
and when IC start stringing people up with piano wire and installing some ovens next to the Samadhi, give me a call, I promise I`ll get out of bed for that!
..”well yes,but we are Taoists around here and we like to exaggerate and imaginate.”
/Frank
Well, Frank, are we ? Here ?
I am glad, to hear, when you ´would get out of the bed´ though, although it might be pretty late then…
And my be I have a backlash from the contribution of a Swami, who attended one of the numerous ´Non-Duality´Q&A s´, and sharing stuff about it, what I could very well relate to.
This afternoon, some words, Prem Martyn chose, open up the space in the void:
“None of this is about Osho but about the pain in the heart that won’t go away when exposed to pride, vanity, contempt and ambition.”(Prem Martyn)
Madhu
An exaggeration to compare them to the nazi’s, perhaps, perhaps, but the “IC” pulling people’s videos down of youtube just for using Osho’s name is still absurd.
If someone named his son ‘Osho’ would the IC try to stop him putting home videos of himself on youtube?
“Osho’s summer camping trip”?
SS.
Of course not.
There are Japanese restaurants called “Osho” all over the place.
eg In upstate New York and in San Fran airport.
They don`t get calls from OIF.
It`s a religious turf war,in case you haven`t noticed!
I don`t know if it`s true but someone said there was an Osho brothel in Mumbai. Judging by what I read here, they have a lot more satisfied customers than the resort!
Now I come to think of it,I believe they changed their name because they didn`t want to be associated with any dodgy ,fraudulent unethical enterprises!
I remember seeing an ‘Osho’ womens underwear and lingerie store somewhere in India, and once used a ‘he-man’ toothpaste.
What I’d like to know is, if Osho’s brother turned up at the Resort, Osho Shailendra, and he was wearing a hat like Osho’s, would he be allowed in?
In a sense, ( not that I have any kind of authority on such/any thing ) as I see it now , Osho’s religion if at all confined only to the courtroom shall be better than these bloody wars but where or what is the guarantee for any such thing , so I’d rather stick to my stand for now , which is to watch from afar .
It always surprises me that these big corporations are so obedient to the advice of their corporate lawyers and profit-motivated executives.
Look how Google behaves in China, Iran, etc, just to get the commercial detritus of the rest of their profitable traffic and not be banned. Utube doing something in a small way similar here.
And also cant see really why a few videos of Osho Tabopan are deemed so important by OIF. But maybe Arun and company were asking for it by their incessant and sometimes ill informed criticisms of OIF. After all they do seem to behave as if they want to replace OIF, and I am for one consider that would be a disaster. Pune would become a shrine, and real personal growth work quickly abandoned.
You will have heard of the Karpman drama triangle.
This piece screams victim while casting OIF in the role of persecutor, while attempting to manipulate the readers into mounting a rescue operation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
it is all about jealousy. Osho should be mine and mine only. I am surprised that nobody is bringing this issue in. And even more surprised, that the management team, wich is intelligent, can not detect that either. Destroy everything that is not controlled by me. It is very destructive.
If youtube is in the USA you can file a legal complaint. Because the trademark is not valid in the USA. there was a courtcase and OIF lost the case. Please contact the sannyas lawyer Sandee in hawai.
Sorry the name of the lawyer is Ma Prem Sangeet.
Just posting a comment below that one of our viewers from Pakistan wrote.
(Written by Arbab Hadi From Pakistan)
If videos like these are illegal, i dont know whether to laugh or cry about it. Today i really understand why Osho says “Creativity is the greatest rebellion in existence”. Osho Sandesh is an Artwork! Banning it is an ugly, barbaric form of blackmail! The more they ban and blackmail, the more it shall spread!
Really proud of you guys Nirab Rimal Beni Waiba Bodhi Mudita and everyone else who is involved in making it happen. You guys do an amazing job each time and never get the due credits for it. Maybe this banning is your due credit. The fact that it is banned shows that it was certainly making impact. I always love Osho sandesh and wait for it, but i never realized that videos of people laughing and dancing and meditating, can disturb people. This banning is definitely an honor for you guys, Celebrate!
lots of love.
Years ago I remember reading about the ‘long arm of the inner circle’ cancelling people’s visa’s in India.
What is this ‘long arm’?
And how does it work?
Who is extending it?
Why would the ‘Inner circle’ want to pull down the Nepali Vids?
SS.
It`s realpolitik.
Osho Neo-Crusaders(TM) can`t allow fanatical supporters of
`Ol Bhagdaddy to gain a foothold in the subcontinent.
They are outnumbered due to lack of interest, so unable to put boots (or sandals with socks) on the ground so they are using their superior air power to destroy the insurgents` infrastructure on social media.
These guys are ruthless…. Some heroes of the resistance like Shantam have already paid the ultimate price…of being unfriended by members of the inner circle on facebook!
There are also rumours that the whole thing is a setup,that Aruns supporters themselves pulled the plug on their own youtube site so as to cry fascism and thwarting of free speech!
Who knows?
It seems that even when the contestants are self-proclaimed `truth seekers`, the truism applies: that the first casualty of war is …er…
truth.
Brilliant rendition !
Another comment by Ma Bodhi Mudita regarding the termination of Osho Sandesh channel..
This is so farce-like that it is tragic! Such blatant oppression of the Rights to Creative Expression! There cant be any justification. This is simply barbaric. Osho International Foundation will be someday embarrassed for standing on the wrong side of the history. The silver-lining to this is the fact that they did recognise #oshosandesh as a powerful tool to transform the lives of many, as it has done continuously over the past few years. So proud to have worked with the production team in some of the issues
Perfectly correct Aaatmo!
It is certainly hard to tell whether this a tragedy or a farce!
Osho International Fools are certainly on the wrong side of history,whereas your name Aaatmo,(and I add mine in utmost humility that befits such elevated company) along with that of Arun and Modi,will for ever emblazoned in the history of consciousness and the Akashik records as the brave upholders of the religion of mighty Bhorat!
Dietrich Bonhoffer said:
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless.”
and Arun is right to echo his words!
Arun has not remained silent!
He has declared Narendra Modi clearly as “the incarnation of Zorba the Buddha”!
Our stand vis-à-vis fascism could not be clearer!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
The last Osho Sandesh before OIF deleted the channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxPWxvo0cQs
Aatmo Nerav, is that a statue of Osho in the beginning of the video? Could you explain to me all about it? I am with Osho for more than 30 years and for the first time I heard about first teaching of Osho, there is a second, third, etc..? I am a bit confused now! Cheers!
Aatmo,
Do you know if the video of Arun arriving in a helicopter is still available?
Kavita:
you sound like Sosan: remember, he said,
“If you want truth, DONT BE FOR OR AGAINST ANYTHING!”
No, Parmartha, maybe I am not getting you; I am not for physical war nor legal war, but legal war seems better than a physical one in one sense, but I don’t trust that it could stop at that in the future.
This was in answer to your first comment in the string:
“Guess one has to fight one’s own battle in one’s own way , this doesn’t seem like mine , wishing both teams All The Best” !!
Yes in that sense you are right , as I can’t associate myself with either extremes ie, OIF or Arun faction and consider it entirely their own business .
Like yin and yang.
Or Chang and Chong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxgfTMLtc0
https://youtu.be/eY7ZX6ngOSs
Tried to find that video. Hilarious and gross.
http://www.wikifortio.com/710757/Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers 00.cbr
That was actually from an old cheech & chong record which I used to listen to with friends years ago when I was a bit of a stoner.
Cheech & chong pretending to be Russians.
None of this is about Osho but about the pain in the heart that won’t go away when exposed to pride, vanity, contempt and ambition. That slur-saying of another (valid or not) is like two lovers/losers fighting over their trophy partner! As if it makes them any more lovable or builds trust in either. It does no such thing. But it seems hard-wired into the DNA of retributive libido/ spirituality.
And when one is in it then just enjoy the ride, as it’s unlikely that this form of competitiveness ends with self-annihilation. In fact, judging by the previous contests it gets worse and meta-physical, with Buddha’s sixth body being told to sod off by an incarnate wise guy known as Osho.
It’s not only about Osho Tapoban, it seems to be about any sannyasin posting on youtube. I uploaded a couple of videoes with music from Oregon celebrations and from Poona one, music that has not been commercially available in any form for about 30 years and never has been digitalized. And no warning and no friendly request, they just got banned with the problems that follow from that for me.
Before this I thought I could understand the banning of low-quality versions of Osho discourses on youtube. That it was about taking care of the legacy and ofc this was actually stuff that were on sale so I could see the relevance.
But it seems the people working at OIF is just on a mad power trip, control for the sake of control. And trying to monopolize – and limit – the spreading of Osho’s vision on social medias.
I also have difficulty seeing what the legal ground can be for banning the Tapoban videoes since they are self-produced and don’t contain any material copyrighted by OIF.
I have always been for copyright on Osho material but it presupposes that the people administering this are intelligent and meditative not just acting in an automatic way and unnecesarily preventing sannyasins to publically share their love for their master. So when I previously were kind of sympathetic to the efforts of OIF I have certainly realized that they are taking the wrong road. (And a road that seems sadly reminiscent of the Sheela-years).
And will definitely support in any way I can the groups who oppose them.
Can you imagine the opprobrium which would fall on Amrito and the other guy if they were to behave as Arun does. Playing the guru. Whatever abuse they get now, would be worse.
Strikes me what ever they do abuse will be heaped on them, so if they ever wanted approval or support from their detractors, the’ve given up trying.
Fritz Perls says of relationships, and this is a disfunctional relationship,
whoever is on top has the partner on the bottom by the throat and whoever is on the bottom has the partner on top by the balls.
http://i.imgur.com/9j0Up6U.jpg
lovely quote Arpana. cheers
In this talk of fascism we could be aware of the contribution to the debate by the recently departed finance minister of Greece,Yanis Varoufakis, who I congratulate on these cogent and well versed quotes and approach to the fascism endemic in neo-liberal capitalism and the rise of the monolithic power of banking-cunts-wankers to attempt the enforcing control and determination of the survival ideology, the language and aspirations of the individual, in the fascism of everyday life as life-killing control, east and west.
The current fascist government in the UK is comprised of those nasty venomous upper class control freaks, especially now.
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/seven-times-yanis-varoufakis-just-did-not-give-a-damn-what-anyone-thought-of-him–WJT3TOi_fe
When Osho talked of power and prestige he did so to remind us of the natural bounty of wonder and our associations with it and ourselves. In this revaluation of values was contained all that we implicitly know as good. To have seen the various clips of Greeks dancing Zorbas dance yesterday with a big celebratory collaborative and public displays of ‘fuck you’ to the power of capital was heart warming and cheering.
I lived on a Greek island for 4 years,where there were several notable instances of the local ability for ripping off the visiting foreigner by the local jealous pleb, BUT there were also a huge bunch of friendly indigenous honourable sannyasin friends and local Greeks who enjoyed being charming and endearing and supportive.
Whilst dealing with the superficialities of having a master or sect to cling onto , lets not forget who pulls the strings in this world of the religion of destructive greed and the orchestration of money as power.
Arun has never once launched into any political analysis , let alone condemnation of those who provide him with political esteem and who he mirrors back in kind , in his travels. He is by all appearances a person who applauds the ignominious Modi. Conversely the edict driven legislators and anti-free downloaders of the resort , run a tight , boring version of post Osho-ism that has ‘corporate’ as a neo-osho study course.
If being with or into or around Osho once had or has any value it was/is to provide models of behaviour to expose and indulge the confrontation with power.And to have that power (psychic,psychological, hierarchical temporal, financial) embedded tacitly or overtly in most but not all the Osho communities. There is no other sect that I can think of that indulges both the power of the adept as therapist/priest/ commune leader/ shrink/ respected therapist with loads of validated group leading / proto ambitious meditative fawning and bourgeois indulgence … whilst at the same time providing for the anti-dote to itself via confrontation, exposure, interpersonal catharsis, stripping of identity and role via the use of ,amongst other abilities, the accessible swearing, indulgent, colourful and playful baroque sexual interpersonal ‘vulgarities’ (
to the point of stripping the veneer of respectability, mutually, daily if necessary to the point of exclusion or and better….vulnerability and mutual recognition.
There never was any guarantee of what constituted propriety and respect, at least amongst us minions of the lower orders. Those closest to Osho had their own versions of this soup.
It differentiates/ed sannyas from all the other creeps out there, from xtians to buddhist-robed, shaven-headed guys who practised metaphorical if not metaphysical analysis in such profoundly deeply ingratiating ways that polyps were discovered on the way up. The differentiation isn’t enough for us though.
When it comes to legacy-holding a simple ‘fuck you’ won’t do for either side… no, they have to build and build upon their temporal power and without any sign of a truly indulgent and sponsoring permissive environment on either side. Either the proto- corporation style, good as far as a non-visceral appraoch to life goes, without mess. Pune became quite sterile early on and deeply invested in reputation with its own rectal rectitude.
It would all be fine if both sides had an ounce of self-ridicule to share between them. If they just acted out for a moment, or just swapped roles and ran each other’s communes for a fortnight by adopting each other’s formalities and overbearing ideology. But oh no.. not a frigging vulgarity in sight, not even a piss take of themselves or each other. Why ? Because they learned from the Master that being and non being meant you just cannot afford to be affable or accessible without claiming to know that love is always ‘blessed’ and has not an inkling of self ridicule or buffoonery in it.Dress in garbs for mutual recognition yes,full on dressed up buffoonery .. oh noooo ! And especially when you’re in bed together(with the same spiritual pomposity )Then it’s no laughing matter.
Have you noticed that they don’t laugh at themselves either in porn movies or in post-proto religions. Shame really, cos we’re not miserable po-faced Buddhists…not on the, er, whole.
Anyway congratulations to Greece, and Yannis Veryfuckyukis.
the definition of ‘if you can’t beat them, join them ‘ now follows as a guide to would be religionists and self authorised seekers who have multi faceted personalities….
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/man-drinks-10-beers-tells-boss-to-f-off-wins-claim-for-unfair-dismissal–bkXLARIBMl
Tapoban’s last video may give the clue (which Narav put up earlier.)
The last Osho Sandesh before OIF deleted the channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxPWxvo0cQs
I must say it is on overload in making Arun look like some kind of Osho inheritor. Some of the earlier videos from Tapoban were not like that. I could imagine that many might take offence about Arun sort of becoming a guru and adopting the style, manners and practices of his Master.
I can see why OIF would not like it.
Personally I cant stand Arun’s politics with the right wing nationalists in India, and the mirror of that in Nepal. Doesn’t show any spiritual insight at all. When someone yells “Fascist” look for the fascist within them. Now even a Teertha encounter group told you that 30 years ago!
I hadn’t seen any of the Arun’s – Sandesh ( message ) videos till this one , but to have it advertised as Osho Sandesh is ridiculous .
Arun needs to visit the Gujarat Annual Shoe and Flip-Flop makers festival to meet a whole load of other cobblers.
For more on the Hero’s myth and those in Arun’s role of building a simplified personal notionology see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzdXu8G0bQM
http://resource.zhaoziyuan.com/resource_a/0a393eafdf56297705526169ff2d5da1.pdf
Thanks a lot PM for the links. Superb! X
I thought I’d thank you only after I completed watching & listening to the whole series , just did that so thank you .
I have watched the video and I cannot see what the problem is.
Perhaps the people at OIF don`t like it, but what right does that give them to pull the video channel down?
Beats me.
I watched the video. It is beautiful to see sannyas flowering… sannyasins dancing with malas… Osho’s presence… like Poona One… but different, with its own flavor, in 2015.
As Mao said: Let a thousand Aruns bloom, let a thousand Tapobans bloom. No person, no organization, can monopolize sannyas.
Aatmo Neerav,
Many thanks for posting such a beautiful example of the videos, which sadly, are now in YouTube’s recycle bin.
Listening to the delicate sensitivity in your voice is a meditation in itself.
Let me assure you that from what I have seen, I feel confident that I have also seen all the others. So please don’t despair as nothing has been lost.
You have not responded to previous questions, I assume that is because you have been too busy installing feelings of discontent and persecution amongst Osho lovers.
Regardless… there are couple of points that hopefully, should you find the time, you may be able to clear up.
The guys seen dancing awkwardly: are they there for genuine reasons, like spiritual enlightenment, or what?
And that troupe of adorable monkeys seen clambering across the rooftop. Are they rushing to greet Arun or fleeing from him?
Thank You.
The tone from OSHO Sandesh, and others posting on this topic, seems to imply that a great injustice has been inflicted upon them by YouTube at the behest of the OIF.
I disagree.
The sentiment seems to be: By what legal rights were the videos removed? Actually the legal rights are in YouTube’s terms of service agreement.
Osho Sandesh & bodhi heeren,
Did you read YouTube’s T of S? they clearly state: “YouTube reserves the right to remove Content and User Submissions without prior notice or reasons.”
If you just checked ‘Yes’ without reading. Then it was yourselves who gave the legal right. So its hard to see why you are now complaining.
The videos would have been taken down in countries where the trademark ‘OSHO’ is owned by the OIF. If requested to do so.
I found the documentation on online in about 2 minutes, showing the OIF’s ownership of OSHO as a trademark. It’s a public record. Documents which when presented to YouTube would show it is a bona fide request. And so, YouTube acted accordingly. YouTube does not mediate or care about trademark disputes and deals only in facts.
If you understand how trademarking works, you may be able to see the OIF’s point of view. There is a significant difference between trademark and copyright. Trademarks exist more to protect the public from being confused or misled (and not for the interests of the owner. For that copyright is used.)
If a member of the public types into the YouTube search box: ‘Osho’ then you can safely assume they are seeking Osho (as in Bhagwan.) As things stood the search results would have also returned links to Osho Sandesh (because of the matching keyword ‘Osho’) and therefore potentially misleading. And that is what trademarks prevent.
That’s why Osho Sandesh has been changed to OshoSandesh in the new link to the video posted on this page. Don’t credit them as being courageous and defiant. All they have done is accepted and complied with trademark requirements.
Go to YouTube search and type ‘Osho’ and then try ‘Osho Sandesh’ you will see clearly how trademark enforcement is preventing confusion, by letting members of the public find exactly what they looking for. When you take out a trademark you also have to define its areas of influence. OIF has not defined ‘food’ as one of them and so cannot stop the name ‘Osho’ being used by restaurants. They do not have carte blanche on its usage as some believe.
Opponents of the OIF want you to believe that religious freedoms are being stifled. The only thing that has been stifled is the chance of a few individuals to experience more power. Don’t fall for the emotive propaganda and hysterical indignation. it’s ignorance of how trademarks work that is being exploited.
bodhi heeren,
The videos you posted sounded interesting, so let’s hope that they have not been lost for good.
When you post a video you know may be contentious, also send a link to the OIF and ask them to review your work to find out if there is anything they may object to, and any modifications that may be required. Especially ask them if you can use the name ‘Osho’ in the title, and then act according to their response. If you do not receive any reply, tell YouTube you tried, but were unable to contact potential copyright owners. And that will protect you from any negative consequences should a takedown request arrive in YouTube’s inbox.
The augment over OIF being awarded the trademark in the first place, I leave to others.
Really an intelligent post.
I agree it is.
Will you, Shantam, now stop advocating and supporting those who find it easier to be oppressed Osho nationalists fighting the Imperialists than intelligent individuals who have a 360 degree inter and intrapersonal attitude , orientation and authentic community building non-hierarchical capability/ adaptability? Or would you like one of Shailendra’s funny hats and Arun’s cakes to start your own fan club in Lidlbaden am der Rhine?
Martyn,
Westerners may find Shailendra and the other members of the trio wearing the same style hats as Osho very funny, aha ha.
But in India for a very long time, disciples of masters have been following the same estyle:
you will find diciples of Shiva wearing dreadlocks, covered in ashes and living near the cremation ground, and smoking chillums, even sometimes wearing a little moon in the hair,
you can find bald-headed hari Krishna warriors chanting and dressing exactly like their master Chaintanya Mahaprabhu did,
whilst the followers of Adi Shankara dress exactly like old Adi did (adi shankara mind, not adi da samraj).
So what`s wrong with a lineage of sannyasins wearing Osho style knitted hats, and multi-coloured one`s to, and why not dress up in robes Osho estyle?
Is Osho Shailendra allowed into the resort?
He is Osho`s brother after all.
Would someone be allowed into the resort if they were wearing a hat in the same style as Osho , they stated that their name was, in fact, `Osho`?
Pretty well summed up Anubodh and thanks for making the effort to clarify this, which I would say you have done well.
Not much to add, except to underline the fact that many in this debate seem to get mixed up between Trademarks, and copyright issues. They are entirely different issues.
Parmartha,
Credit for any effort has to go to Bhagwan.
He was the one who said to me: “Go help my people…”
The majority of the time I simply cannot be arsed. This time I could. Appeals for more love needed in sannyas don’t work. So I wondered if clarifying trademarks would stop the tedious, self-pitying mantras: “but we are only trying to share our love for our master…” (aka. Love for yourselves)
I have witnessed a significant amount of ‘mission creep’ since the early days of sannyas, and it seems that creep is towards self-righteous evangelism.
It’s a shame that Aatmo Neerav & Osho Sandesh Team have not responded.
They started this string with such high and confident hopes. I wonder if they now regret using that very clever graphic with “foundation” crossed out, and “fools” in its place. When we now know it should have been the word “Osho” crossed out and “fools” placed there.
Anyway, maybe they will respond to this…
I suspect there is one person in Nepal who is making contingency plans should the OIF ever be ousted, as somebody would have to take over the running of koregaon park.
This person may be thinking: “Hold on… once the premises are vacated then, Swami Xerox and his brat pack will be on the first flight back from Mexico! so he can take his rightful place as Osho’s chosen successor.” (Maybe the two had a gentleman’s agreement: you stay out of Nepal and I won’t denounce you for the fraud that you are. An agreement no longer valid.)
It seems to me that having demonstrated on SN a couple of years ago (certainly to overworked moderators, who rarely had time for a quiet cup of tea) just how motivated, vociferous and aggressive Xerox’s young followers can be. I don’t see the Indians or Nepalese standing much of a chance. He will simply fill the ashram with his supporters from Eastern Europe, muscle all opposition out (with accusations of ‘lacking fire in the belly’) and it will be game over.
Under those circumstances it would be useful to have the confidence of a very nationalistic Prime Minister, who may be very sympathetic to a plea of: we have just rescued part of our heritage from one group of Westerners, and now it’s been stolen again by another.
I am not saying all this is true, it may be me just demonstrating (in the name of ‘freedom to express love for my master’) what it feels like to be smeared with inaccurate misinformation.
Everyone knows that the world of sannyas is immune from ruthless backstabbing.
Anubodh, you clearly helped many of us, and reading your post I can say you are not far from the truth. Many thanks!
I just got to watch Osho Sandesh number 10, below at this address.
As Anubodh points out OshoSandesh rather than Osho Sandesh will bring it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2S2N6IyOBU
……and I would like to put somethings else on the ´caravanserai table´to this thread issue.. Friends.
No Master, worth His/Her Salt, as Lokesh, who just takes a break here (I presume ), did put it, – is up to leaving behind Hime/Her /myriads of carbon copies.
However, I never experienced Arun, just saw a little bit of the vids (two or three) and so saw that he is visiting England quite a lot as well as other countries for Q&A s as well as Meditation Retreats, dedicated to the Meditations Osho Himeself created for us all.
That´s beautiful , for sure.
Arun´s lecturing style though, I couldn´t warm up to (see above…)
There is always some deeper layer behind the rational scenery of trademark issues or copyrights. And some of This, seemed to have working here, and the social psychologists approach ( from Arpana about the triangle) or Prem Martyns about Joseph Campell are circling that mysterious prey , a prey, what sometimes shows up, just to disappear again in the shades.
What is the way, to take care of something precious ?
Me – myself – don´t know much about it, always ending in my struggle to respond , moment to moment, if possible anew.
This thread here, as well as other strings here, so often reminding me on what not only Osho stated:
One is born as an original and mostly ends up as a carbon copy.
This is urgency in form of a statement, is it not ?
Sometimes , when e-motioned , I call it the call of the Soul.
May we all have good night, Friends ( or a good morning , Kavita et al.)
The last cars came home just now and relieved some from party, now its time to listen into the Silence of the night again, Fullmoon over…cool and fresh after the rain. Marvellous.
Madhu
Madhu asks,
‘What is the way to take care of something precious ? ‘
Seems to me the answer is straightforward.
Make all the effort we can, to be as conscious as we can, in our relationship with ourselves, the world, from this place of being in a relationship with Osho.
What else do we have? This is our responsibility. We can only ‘fix’ ourselves.
This will involve regularly making decisions and taking actions that others, more particularly people who also have sannyas names will disapprove of.
This is as true for Amrito, Jayesh and Arun as it is for the rest of us.
I made my post in reply to this SannyasNews topic on July 7, 2015. Coincidentally, I received notice today, July 9, 2015, of a complaint made by OIF regarding an e-book I published (and made available free of charge) containing my Spanish translation of two Osho discourses. At the time of publication, in 2012, I requested copyrighted use permission from OIF for a photo of Osho in the book. It appears OIF is not just going after YouTube videos.
My free Spanish language e-book may be taken down by Apple in five days. If you are interested, you may still be able to read it in the next five days (if you read Spanish and have access to iBooks).
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/celebra!-medita!/id571590965?mt=11
Hello Samarpan,
A few points in your post I hope you will think carefully about. And then consider whether the criticism you, and many others, have for the OIF is really justified.
We can assume that you accept that the OIF do have the copyrights on Osho, as you did the correct thing by contacting them about the photo.
You provide a link here to iTunes. But did you send this link to the OIF to show them the context in which Osho’s image was to be used?
I suspect the answer is ‘No’. Else they would have stopped your whole project there and then.
Photos come under image rights, which would be very amiss of them not to possess. But I doubt if Osho’s image is much of a problem and would only be enforced on someone trying to sell Osho T-shirts or posters.
The problem is not the photo, it’s in you translating Osho’s words.
What you did sounded innocent, but by changing something from a copyrighted source you have committed: ‘Plagiarism’. Making the work ‘free’ is irrelevant.
I have just typed into Google: ‘is plagiarism illegal’ and the reply is:
“Although plagiarism is not a criminal or civil offense, plagiarism is illegal if it infringes an author’s intellectual property rights, including copyright or trademark.”
You clearly have a desire to help spread Osho, and maybe by providing a textbook example of somebody defaming the OIF – when themselves are the fault. Is to be your greatest contribution.
Others may now realise, that maybe, it’s best to back off the OIF as they seem to be the only ones who know what they are doing. And let their energy be used to forward Osho instead of dealing with constant distractions.
Your e-book has had three years in the wild, so have they really – gone after you?
Your translation also raises other issues:
Did you get a third party to proof read your finished work?
Maybe some ‘have a go hero’ in the past has also attempted a DIY translation of religious words?
Perhaps they erroneously translated: ‘give them a nice foot massage’ into ‘cut their heads off’.
I have noticed that the dates you originally posted have now been amended to the correct ones.
So I wonder about the other errors you may have made in your translation?
Swami Anand Anubodh,
I will try to address all of your questions and concerns.
My 2012 Spanish language e-book is the Spanish half of a bilingual print edition published in 1988, before OIF existed, before Osho left the body, when I worked in Spanish translations in Poona 2. I spoke in a meeting with Hasya, who was then Osho’s secretary, about my activities. My assumption in 1988 was everything was OK.
For the last 27 years my assumption has been everything was still OK. No one ever raised any objection until I received notice from Apple of an OIF complaint of copyright infringement (not plagiarism) on July 9, 2015. I understand OIF claimed copyright after Osho left the body.
A translation is not plagiarism. Plagiarism is taking someone’s words or ideas and passing them off as your own. It comes from the Latin “plagiarius” or “kidnapper.” My bilingual print book and the Spanish language e-book both clearly state Osho is the source. I provide credits and acknowledgement of sources in both the 1988 and 2012 publications.
However, a translation is an original work and the translator holds legal copyright to the translation, which is why my 2012 e-book only includes the Spanish translation. I assume OIF now claims copyright for Osho’s English words.
I did not send OIF a link to the e-book because there was no link to send at the time I sent a letter to OIF requesting permission about the photos. I did send the photos to OIF. After not receiving a response from OIF, I went ahead and published the Spanish translation. Only then was a link created.
I did get competent third parties to proof finished work… and I passed the American Translators Association 3-hour exam, which involved doing literary translation, to become certified as an English/Spanish translator. (Overall ATA exam pass rate is below 20%). Translation is not about exact word for word equivalence. It involves conveying the meaning of the original. I am very concerned that translation be done right.
Osho is also concerned about translation quality:
BELOVED OSHO, THE COMMUNE IS NO MORE; OR, EVERY SANNYASIN IS THE COMMUNE. BUT WHAT ABOUT SUCH INSTITUTIONS AS THE ACADEMY, OR FRIENDS, WHICH TAKES CARE OF THE PUBLICATION AND DISTRIBUTION OF YOUR WORDS? DO THEY STILL HAVE A FUNCTION, AND HOW CAN THEY FUNCTION?
“They still have a function — and they will continue to function — but their function is not dictatorial. Their function is to serve the whole world of sannyasins and the people who love me. So their function is not to govern you, their function is to serve you. And they are not organizations, they are simply institutes. And their function has become more important now, because for all the languages that books are being translated into, it has to be seen to it that they are not mistranslated — that the translation is right, that it does not harm the spirit of the message.
So it is a great work to take care of all the languages — we need the publication institute to check all the language publications before they are published.
Now there are many countries…. Just yesterday, a Korean woman was here, and she informed us that more than thirty of my books are translated into Korean, and thousands of copies are available in all the bookstalls all over the country. We have to take care of things. There are countries which are not members of the Bern Convention: they do not believe in copyright. Korea is one of those that do not believe in copyright, so they can translate any book, publish any book.
But we can at least keep an eye that the translation is done rightly, that the person who is doing the translation understands me. It is not only a question of copyright, it is a question that I should not be presented in a wrong way — which is possible. Because if they are just earning money, who cares whether the translation is right or wrong?”
–Osho, “Light on the Path” (2 February 1986, ch. 28)
Chapter title: Act according to your insight
I do not consider myself a vocal critic of OIF or remember “defaming” OIF. I assume OIF knows what it is doing… just as I know what I am doing, acting according to my insight.
27 years is a good run and I have no problem with OIF’s current complaint to Apple. It is not a problem if my work of translation disappears after having been available for 27 years. The silence between the words is what most matters, and silence cannot be copyrighted by OIF. Osho’s words and silence are both more available now, in 2015, than ever before… much to my delight and surprise.
As a refrain in a popular 1978 salsa song says:
“La Vida Te Da Sorpresas… Sorpresas Te Da La Vida”
Composed and Performed by Ruben Blades
Song Title: “Pedro Navaja”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT05OcLI1OY
Hello Samarpan,
Thank you for your very comprehensive reply.
I am glad you have cleared up plagiarism, as that was the only thing I could think of without the additional information you have generously provided (information which seems to me to be riddled with ‘assumptions’).
I would suggest you meditate over the following:
Copyright means literally, “Who has the right to copy”
The OIF holds the copyright on Osho’s words (not a ‘claim’ more of a fact.)
Did the OIF give you the right to copy (or translate) Osho?
No.
Therefore you are in breach of copyrights.
It would be impossible, by absolute definition, to translate Osho, from English into Spanish, without access to the original English words. Over which the OIF have the rights.
If they had given you the right to access Osho’s words, then, and only then, is your translated work entitled to a whole new status (Even the translator becoming the new copyright owner, as you say.)
If you cannot grasp this, then I give up.
Once you fell at the first ‘no copyrights’ fence, then all your other diligent efforts at correctness were irrelevant. You mentioned ‘coincidence’ in your original post. I suspect you have just been caught up in a general crackdown on Osho cowboy.
Please don’t feel you have to justify anything to me. It’s the OIF that counts.
INTERMISSION
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEm9wdLYw9U
POPCORN and Kia ORA available in the foyer.
Please sit back and and relax with your partner and consider the Wei Wu Wei, or just have a long heart warmin snog
to the sound of some soft soothing tunes…
Normal service will be resumed after the break..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysfXNU3ZFEA
Hmm.
Heres the origional.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQstQST1GiM
Leela Leela Life is Just a Play: a fragment of Osho Sandesh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tHw8B7-vi0
Swami Atmo Neerav, (just remembered) there were a few queries in this thread which were directed towards you by Swami Anand Anubodh, on 7 July, 2015 at 4:37 pm, which you perhaps have conveniently overlooked. Do respond if you are able/care to.