Hugh Mackay is a psychologist, social researcher and novelist who has made lateral studies of the attitudes and behaviour of Australians. There has been some discussion on SN lately about the simulation of happiness in sannyas communities. As Arpana indicates in the previous thread Mackay has something worthy to say on the subject of happiness. see below. . (He was a weekly newspaper columnist for over 25 years and now writes occasionally for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age). We reproduce his quote below as it seems worthy of comment, as does the all too brief discussion between Kavita and Arpana in the previous thread.
“I actually attack the concept of happiness. The idea that – I don’t mind people being happy – but the idea that everything we do is part of the pursuit of happiness seems to me a really dangerous idea and has led to a contemporary disease in Western society, which is fear of sadness.
It’s a really odd thing that we’re now seeing people saying “write down 3 things that made you happy today before you go to sleep”, and “cheer up” and “happiness is our birthright” and so on. We’re kind of teaching our kids that happiness is the default position – it’s rubbish. Wholeness is what we ought to be striving for and part of that is sadness, disappointment, frustration, failure; all of those things which make us who we are.
Happiness and victory and fulfilment are nice little things that also happen to us, but they don’t teach us much. Everyone says we grow through pain and then as soon as they experience pain they say “Quick! Move on! Cheer up!”
I’d like just for a year to have a moratorium on the word ‘happiness’ and to replace it with the word ‘wholeness’. Ask yourself “is this contributing to my wholeness?” and if you’re having a bad day, it is.”
Hugh Mackay
Somebody once asked me what I’d got out of Sannyas and meditation and the biggie is that I no longer make a problem out of problems, as it were, as in if I feel low I no longer treat feeling low as aberrant.
If I notice a hint of ego at work I would have made such an ego problem out of it and now I don’t give such things much attention. If I fell out with someone at one time, end of the earth and all my faUlt, now I just shrug and don’t give it much attention.
“…If I notice a hint of ego at work I would have made such an ego problem out of it and now I don’t give such things much attention. If I fell out with someone at one time, end of the earth and all my faUlt, now I just shrug and don’t give it much attention…” /Rpana 3
What an amazing response – reaction , Arpana,1,2,3… to the issue (text), you, yourself inspired to, didn´t you ?
And with amazing , I mean your “just shrugging , and don´t give much attention”, as you did put it.
You are a top good quoting agent Arpana (of anything, it seems), and other sides of your multiple talents in your multiple appearances is, that you might be a quite good painter and graphic designer too , like also some other contributors.
I have been busy today to look inside about the differences in between a ´happy go lucky ´attitude´, a self indulging ´self-pity´attitude versus allowing ,´ being deeply touched´ by issues of sadness, loss or failure without covering that up with the manifolds appearances , that indifference can take.
For me , Hugh Mackay the first minutes after reading was creating space for ´inconvenient emotions´and felt like fresh air, but soon that changed , because one can make a dogma out of anything, isn ´t it ?
Especially with the last lines of his, and in these, the last words, quoted here:
“I’d like just for a year to have a moratorium on the word ‘happiness’ and to replace it with the word ‘wholeness’. Ask yourself “is this contributing to my wholeness?” and if you’re having a bad day, it is.”
The other day, Shantam made a remark, about ´medicine´, what´s not for everybody:
I wouldn´t say, for example, that if I have had a bad day , that that is contributing to my wholeness in any case and on the other hand I do suffer when facing the walls of collective as individual performed increasing indifference in actions on a daily basis .
Many ´just shrug´about anything , Arpana , it ´s not their ´fault´, sure.
Guilt is a poison, but indifference too. The latter poison is just working in another way.
And what is to withdraw attention other than indifference ? , can you say ?
And is it basically in your hands to withdraw or not to withdraw ?
Madhu
PS
need to mix my ´medicine´ on a daily , even momentary basis anew according facing these issues
Another way of saying this, Madhu, is that I no longer make such big mountains out of small molehills.
After reading Hugh Mackay again here, it makes it more clear that every West has an East in it & vice versa; & every Centre is free of/contains all sides (whether anyone really likes it or not).
And now I am wondering if clarity is just another word leading us to more mystery of the wholeness!
‘Happy’ is a bit of a loaded word and of course, the other side of the pendulum from sad. During the course of my life I have been asked many times, “Are you happy?” What is interesting about this is that my answer depended on who was asking the question and how they asked it. ‘Happy’ varies from the day-to-day ‘happy enough’ to the ‘cosmic happy’.
In relation to Sannyas, as I have known it, there was always a lot of emphasis placed on following your bliss. In retrospect, that is a stage I went through only to realize that the bliss states are just something else to get attached to instead of asking who or what is it that wishes to experience bliss?
Any mature seeker comes to this point sooner or later. Happy or sad are two aspects of the same coin. The real question is, who is it that is spinning the coin? Answer that through true understanding and the question will no longer arise and happy or not will no longer be an issue.
And another way of seeing the happy/unhappy, up/down spectrum is that in itself it’s an ultimately unsatisfactory condition, even a definition of unhappiness itself.
Isn’t going beyond that, our identification with every such temporary, passing state, what meditation is all about, ie what we’re all supposed to be up to ‘on the pathless path’?
When people ask a child “are you happy?” or say “you`re a happy little thing aren`t you?” the kid usually looks bemused,even uncomfortable.
Whereas if you say: “Do you want to go and play?”or
“Do you want some chocolate?”
they get interested.
Adults aren`t that much different.
I conclude that play and chocolate exist.
happiness is just an idea.
Spoken like a true Advaitan…
To be fair to Hugh Mackay (altho` he does sound a bit like Mr Mackay from ‘Porridge’) he does live in a place where everyone is walking around constantly repeating the mantras “g`day, mate”, “good on yer”, “no worries” etc.
It`s not surprising that he has been forced to say:
“I actually attack the concept of happiness.”
If he thinks “having a bad day contributes to your wholeness” he needs to go for a weekend retreat in the north of England, e.g. Rochdale or Sunderland – he`ll reach wholeness by about Tuesday afternoon, for sure…
That would sort him out.
“What is interesting about this is that my answer depended on who was asking the question and how they asked it. Happy varies from the day to day happy enough to the cosmic happy.” /Lokesh
So true, Lokesh, and so true about being asked in terms of the opposite(sad) too and may be even more so…)
It´s dance of interdependence and happening even in the silent realms, which, quite often are not silent at all; sometimes your body/ies can feel it, by grace silence falls deeper and deeper and deeper and a GAP (I have no better word for it, sorry) – happens, a spaciousness indescribable – just a visit to when eternity penetrates time.
And then again the ´silent´chatter… starting again. And the chatter-chatter…
I don ´t know , if their is a ´cosmic´happiness, Lokesh , the only glimpse I have had here and there – is , that when you surface again after such a `GAP´, one comes like a child looking at some ocean beach broken sea shell like a diamond*.
” The real question is who is it that is spinning the coin. “, you write, Lokesh, and there I have difficulties to find a “who” in the spinning. It just happens, I feel.
For me , the ways , to be able to respond or not being able to respond, are still providing me with ´issues´in abundance, and what understanding meant to me yesterday , might not be that, today.
Serious, Lokesh, do we need an agreement on what understanding is ?
Is that a prerequisite on coming together, meeting ?
These questions came up since a Sangha happening in terms of a being alone-togetherness in terms of body-mind-soul in my life in the body are vanishing to a big extent. I really miss it and so the acceptance of that ´missing´is an issue for me.
I wonder, if that is immature in your “eye´s” ?
Madhu
PS *
that´s how I understood the title of Shunyo´s book ´Diamond Days`
Madhu, ‘cosmic happiness’ is open to interpretation. I watched H W L Poonja ask people, often in a humorous manner, if they were happy. He meant it and it meant something significant on a very human level. He was, like Osho, one of those people whose presence made you feel good to be alive, helped you see that life made sense, or at least very good positive nonsense….in a nutshell, cosmic.
You say, ‘Serious, Lokesh, do we need an agreement on what understanding is ?’
It all depends on…
You conclude, ‘I wonder, if that is immature in your “eye´s” ?’
I have no need to make a judgement on that.
Check out the…………..
YES, thanks – Lokesh
“comic happiness”
you need a sense of human for that stuff!
Thanks to India´s right wing prime minister, today is World Yoga Day.
Promoters of yoga say, ” It will make people healthy and happy.”
No harm to give a try.
Join your nearest fitness center!
Thanks Shantam.
A BBC commentator described yoga as a “Hindu” practice this morning.
And Modi is encouraging it to face-paint Hinduism, and of course the billion dollar industry that has developed from it in the west, hence giving status to his Indian nationalism and shekels to the Indian state.
Actually I learned what yoga I know at the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order here in London, back in the early seventies. I think the spread of yoga is not much to do with Hinduism. Lots of secular practitioners, and people like the Friends of the Western Buddhist Order.
Many yoga practitioners I have met I would describe as neurotic and controlling, so they are a long way from seeing through the happy/sad middlebrow stuff.
After seeing the scary photo Shantam shared , it seems quite inevitable that so much young population concentration only in one geo-political body which is India , somebody had to take responsibility to channelise this energy at least in some direction , so existentially it seems to be happening now , hope this shall lead to some kind of human transformation .
Here is one more scary photo for Kavita and Bros.
How dare you close your eyes in meditation posture. Don´t you know it is copyrighted by “white men with Indian names”.
Shantam , I thank whoever that the non-existence / existence has not yet been able to copyright such postures for now by anyone !
Perfectly correct Shantambhai!
Every effort must be made to prevent whiteskinned men with Indian names from copyrighting Modi`s glorious postures that have been developed many yugas ago in mighty Bhorat!
Modi`s yogic posturing is certainly impressive!
His good friends Swami Arun and Vladimir Putin are also impressed!
But why are you yourself not in the Delhi alongside Modi taking your rightful place alongside some of those amply endowed desi virgins as heroic defender of the spiritual heritage and legacy of mighty Bhorat from the invasion of whiteskinned baboons who are obsessed with sense-pleasures and the titillation of their genital organs?
You could explain your noble sadhana of these past years where you have been religiously beating the relevant ganglion into submission in the cause of enlightenment!
Modi will be well pleased!
Also,our mighty leader has on World Yoga Day made it clear that along with plastic surgery,air-travel,stemcell science,genetics,public toilets,the dole and catchphrases, the sages and rishis of mighty Bhorat were also the originaters of fascism!
The idea of pure yogic souls who rule over the semi-human lowcastes was originated in India and was only much later taken up by your glorious adopted country!
And these alcohol-swigging Anglo-Saxon whiteskinned baboons who have desecrated the Samadhi not only destroyed our mighty Bhorat with their colonies but also fought against Adolf Hitler,who was a jnani !
They must be removed and mighty India must be restored to its former glory!
And you,Bhai,are to be appointed to the new post,recently created by Modi:
“Minister for removal of whiteskins who have destroyed our glorious religion”
Did you know that Heinrich Himmler kept a copy of the Gita by his bed?
From your eagle`s nest on the German border,you are perfectly placed to mastermind a yuga of super-consciousness that can last a thousand years!
The legacy of the sages of mighty Bhorat who have given the world enlightenment-the final solution, rests squarely on your shoulders,Bhai!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Sieg Heil!
Wow!… And you made me happy, Yogi! Hapiness or wholeness? Who cares? Just a human being making another human being happy. X
I could waffle on about the insane pursuit of happiness , but I think Lokesh and Frank have said it far better than I can.
Such is the wisdom of the oldies passed down to young fools like me.
.
“I could waffle on about the insane pursuit of happiness ….” / Simond
Dear Simond,
why not waffle around yourself on your own here a little bit more on your own about the issue ?
Instead of kind of ´smearily´*giving a Fan.
And – by the way – Lokesh´s moral elaborations for shortsighted and Frank´s playing around about´s , give a lot of space to another male expertise ( like for example… yours…)
Looking forward to – something , something of your own.
Madhu
PS*
wanted to say that quite a little while, but today is the day
Hi Madhu
I’m sorry if my contribution is short and I have offered little of my own thinking on the subject of happiness.
I will attempt to add something, but I find it is difficult because the concept is so shallow or meaningless.
“We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; …”
You will know, this is comes from the U.S. Constitution
Such is just a dream, A shallow fantasy. Farcical.
What more can I say? Help. I feel powerless to add anything real to the discussion.
Perhaps if you add what it means to you, I may be able to contribute further ?
sorry to be so hopeless – hopefully you can help me.
Perfectly correct Simond!
These so-called freedoms of the Amrica and the west are nothing other than the freedom to indulge in immoral behaviour,casual sex, intoxicants,homosexuality,divorce, the development of intellect,reading books,lack of respect for dada and other unsattvic activities!
These absurd activities lead to AIDS,earthquakes,tsunamis,decadence and women stripping naked and leaving their rightful place in the kitchen in search of an utterly illusory and shallow happiness and deserting their children who then starve to death in a spiritual wasteland!
The true freedom is found by bowing at the feet of a newly-crowned yogi and embodiment of sattvic qualities such as Modi or swami Bhorat and surrendering the will and obeying him as he frogmarches you to a higher destiny in a new yuga of yogic consciousness!
Yahoo!
Anand Yogi
My dear fellow, if this is what you believe, please pursue your passions. More power to you, I say !
You must be kidding, Traditional yogi who reads Osho.
Today seen a quotation about happiness.
I think it fits quite well with the string.