SN recently received this letter:
The Corrupt Faces of Hinduism
Respected who so ever you are,
now about the holy ghost… who made poor Mary pregnant…
One might imagine the Holy Ghost came from among the wandering Hindu monks of India, a bit off track, 2,000 years ago in Palestine.. …
Here in India many Holy Ghosts are hiding amongst HINDU MONKS… If the west needs them, they can take more…
One fellow who is now in the grave, whom I knew well… treated women very badly… Another fellow is now in jail in my city - ASHA RAM BAAPU is that idiot’s name… And many others, oddly enough their women followers often protect them… Something rotten in Hindu culture there.
Also is Hinduism a poor thing ?
- Arvind Kejariwal sang a few lines of a song, just after recently becoming Chief Minister of Delhi… (He would be a much better PM than Modi. But it gives high hope for the future… God bless him with much strength)
His song says… Tell palaces to light up poor people’s huts…
Apropos of which: Top Hindu rich monasteries and temples of India…
- they should surrender their wealth to develop our country…
Look for example: their favorite Hindu is ruling India… And what is he doing: this poor Prime Minister – begging from the west for all kinds of Federal Direct Investment. Why ????
Get the finance from corrupt Hindu monasteries and temples sitting in their well lined single rooms draped in silver and gold. (I like the practice of Jain monks… choosing homelessness and really living hard lives as sannyasins should live…)
Beloved Secular Citizens: please ask these rich Hindus, . FOR WHOM??? AND FOR WHAT??? THEY HAVE COLLECTED SUCH WEALTH????
Thank you all -
Dr. Kavita, Jodphur
(This letter has been edited, and one part deleted)
(The Kavita of Jodhpur is not the Kavita of our beloved blog, by the way, ‘our’ Kavita lives in Pune).
Frankly, the accusations against Hinduism can be put against all the main religions: Christianity (The Church of England, for example, is a very wealthy body), Islamic Caliphates (receiving very great wealth from Islamic sources in the Gulf), and the Buddhist temples as sources of very great wealth wherever Buddhism presides.
What is wrong is religion itself. Sociologists have argued that man cannot do without religion. That things would fall apart, that society would crash if religion was abolished. (Actually, where religion was abolished in Russia for 70 years, a ‘new’ religion took it place, Communism).
Dr Kavita hits the right note with the word “secular”. I would argue for a secular society where all religions were downgraded, stripped of power and wealth, and all ‘certainties’ disdained.
Okay, sociologists, you say things would fall apart, but this sticking-plaster society, held together by the nonsense of religion, needs to be put in the garbage for ever. Is it just fear that doesn’t allow people to try something else?
Bayazid, a Sufi mystic, has written in his autobiography, “When I was young I thought and I said to God, and in all my prayers this was the base: ‘Give me energy so that I can change the whole world.’ Everybody looked wrong to me. I was a revolutionary and I wanted to change the face of the Earth.
“When I became a little more mature I started praying: ‘This seems to be too much. Life is going out of my hands – almost half of my life is gone and I have not changed a single person, and the whole world is too much.’ So I said to God, ‘My family will be enough. Let me change my family.’
“And when I became old,” says Bayazid, “I realized that even the family is too much, and who am I to change them? Then I realized that if I can change myself that will be enough, more than enough. I prayed to God, ‘Now I have come to the right point. At least allow me to do this: I would like to change myself.’
“God replied, ‘Now there is no time left. This you should have asked in the beginning. Then there was a possibility.”
Osho, Hsin Hsin Ming: ‘The Book of Nothing’, Chapter 2: ‘The Way is Perfect’
I like the quote, Arps, thanks.
I must say when I think about it, I don’t really agree with the timeline of the story though. Many get enlightened on their death beds, so I am told, and Jesus is said by many to have got enlightened on the Cross!
I would say “it is never too late!” Hope I’m right, by the way, we are both a bit elderly, one thinks.
Lol. Yes.
I thought Jesus got enlightened in the desert after forty days and forty nights.
Yes, Osho questioned this once in examining the statement of Jesus from the Cross:
“My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?”.
Oh, ok.
That’s new to me.
The Cross is a metaphor of time, according to Hazrat Inayat Khan, the imminent with the immanence; this moment pushed to the limit of recognition.
Another translation means that it was not a question, but a statement:
“My god, my God, for THIS I was kept!! (translated as YEEHAAAAA!).
Gotcha! And no actual wooden cross.
Parmartha, do you have any idea about sexual exploitation of women in the name of Osho, in the name of meditation, in the name of love?
You are free to say “no”.
Anyone who has any sense of balance and proportionality as a seeker and not part of a clan will be fair and won´t live in the state of denial.
Why do you direct your question at me, Shantam??
There is exploitation of both men and women all over the world by the opposite sex. Sannyas is partly about becoming aware of that, and in the end walking free of it.
Anyway, Sannyasnews, why you deleted the portions of the letter written by some Dr.Kavita, Jodhpur?
Have you ascertained the authenticity of the article writer?
Has this so-called Dr. given some introduction about herself? One does not send the first letter without some kind of biographical note. Even the people part of Nigerian scam cook some story about themselves.
You show your slapdash style, Shantam, by not noting SN says the letter has been edited and part-deleted. This is our editorial right from someone who is asking us to give publicity to her letter.
Actually, the original letter made very little sense to an English reader and the sense had to be deciphered.
The gist of that deciphering is self-evidently true, and is a good reminder that India will never ‘grow’ without getting rid of Hinduism.
I directed question at you not because I blame you but as an Osho devotee editor you always take Sannyas is holier than the others position. You always try to cover the visible limitations of Sannyas movement, the way intellectual muslims in UK are using all kind of logics to prove it is because of Britain´s values Jehadi John was born.
It seems you gave prominence to this letter because it is raising questions about Hinduism and Christianity. Somewhere my feeling is Osho has earned the right to take potshots at the short comings of others, but only till he was alive.
If there is a bar in the Heaven where founders of religious and spiritual movements meet, things won´t be that rosy anymore for Acharya aka Bhagwan aka Osho. His small community is not better or worse than others.
I, Kavita of Pune, would like to ask Dr. Kavita of Jodhpur…
Q#1: Why she chose/decided to write to Sannyasnews in the first place?
Q#2: Since she is a Hindu (her name suggests so) & seems to be wealthy (which I infer due to her mentioned profession, if so_, what is her quota of wealth for an individual?
Q#3: If she has collected any wealth, for whom & what she has done so? (I infer she is a secular citizen).
Actually, I suspect some frequent SN reader who is not courageous enough to write with his/her real identity has written this letter. I doubt this person with a false identity would be able to respond sincerely. My sincerest All The Best to whoever this is.
Some more questions come to mind…
Q: Why Jain monasteries are not included to share their wealth? They are probably as wealthy or even wealthier than the other Indian religious monasteries?
Q: In which field is this doctorate degree which she proclaims?
According to Osho, I remember the Jains do not have monasteries, and monks just live on the road per Mahavira’s instructions.
Nonetheless, Jains are amongst some of the wealthiest members of Indian society.
They don’t have monasteries as known in Xianity, but they have groups of initiates that will hang together in places in between travelling.
I once stayed near one of these for a while when travelling in Karnataka,South India. I remember sitting cooking dinner with friends in their hut and there would be these blood-curdling screams and howls.
“What the f**k is that?
“Oh, it’s just the Jains,” they replied casually.
“What are they up to?”
“Don’t ask,” they laughed.
Some kind of weird shit was going down, and it went on all through the night. Whether it was abuse or self-flagellation or a mix of the two of some sort I never found out. It sounded pretty sick.
Osho spoke about abuse/sex scandals around Acharya Tulsi that were going down back in the time when he was still connected with them. It was a key moment in his attitude of condemnation of celibacy as I remember. The story is in ‘Autobiography of a Spiritually Incorrect Mystic’.
PM, I suspect your idea of them being some kind of groovy, non-violent geezers “on the road” like Jack Kerouac with his bollocks hanging out or something, is probably a bit romantic.
They sound like the Christian brothers with less underwear and jewellery to me.
Parmartha, not all monks & nuns live in monasteries, there are travelling ones too. I have few Jain friends, they accommodate these travelling monks & nuns in their homes from time to time.
Sharing this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_monasticism
The one good thing India gave the world was religious Hindu Vegetarian fanaticism. Where else in the world can a decent, full-on animal rights anti-carnivore activist, cow lover and all-round good egg have his friends, the grateful beef bullocks and cows, not eaten by law? Why, Maharashtra of course.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/beef-banned-in-maharashtra-5-yrs-jail-rs10000-fine-for-possession-or-sale/
Make him Prime Minister of the UK – actually, World Leader – following the teachings of the interplanetary Dr. Spock (vegetarian).
And on the other hand, I suggest all the Women of India secede from that medieval land and set up a liberated state away from the male psychotic libido-hating murderers that infest that continent and elsewhere.
That some or many of this woman-hating male population is vegetarian is utterly demonic, and explained by impositional and servile morality instead of conscious, shared ethics.
Weird planet.
When I read the letter I thought this must be Yogi who authored it. Kind of difficult to view this in a serious light. It is a joke.
In a nutshell, I will say the following:
The ancient religious systems of belief, morality and the misuse of power within these systems have served in part to bring humanity to where it stands today, but are no longer serving humanity in any real positive way, unless you believe giving sheep something to bleat about is something positive, which I believe it is not – just a lot of noise and fuss about nothing.
Taken to extremes, you have the likes of IS forming with the predominant wish being a return to Sharia Law and the Stone Age. The old systems, if allowed to run their course, inevitably turn self-destructive.
If humankind is to mature and develop its infinite potential for intelligent creativity and endeavour to make our planet a better place for everyone to live in, humankind must face up to its destructiveness. The old religions are part of that. I say get rid of them all, because they are defunct.
Coincidentally, I just read this article about Indian Society. It is quite long but very interesting and also horrifying. It could be seen to tie in with this thread.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31698154
Yes, Lokesh, my first thought was that of Yogi too, but that Yogi I enjoy.
I wonder if this letter was put up to generate some sort of activity on SN?
(MOD: SOME EDITING)
http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/indias-daughter-banned-it-should-be-compulsory-viewing-744281?pfrom=home-lateststories
The documentary ‘India´s Daughters’, which every Indian should have watched, is banned by the conservative government.
Few politicians always push the India back.
“If humankind is to mature and develop its infinite potential for intelligent creativity and endeavour to make our planet a better place for everyone to live in, humankind must face up to its destructiveness. The old religions are part of that. I say get rid of them all, because they are defunct.”
It is a teenager’s view. Things can be got ridden of, if new and better versions of things are available. No one keeps cabled and bulky telephone sets any more, simply because mobile replaced them.
Here in the world of religions, Osho offered a new style, a time-fitting approach but over-zealous followers spat in the soup. They wanted to prove different.
You always make the same old mistake, imagining Osho created yet another ‘religion’. You’re wasting your life mourning something that never existed!
However, aren’t there enough Indians of a similar mentality to you over there, in Delhi or wherever? Isn’t that enough for you?
Or is it that, despite your often-expressed contempt for westerners, you in fact miss access to considerable numbers of them, specifically those of the, er, ‘female persuasion’?
Satyadeva, can you accept for a sec. that after 1977 or 1978, you have no idea what was happening on the ground around Osho?
Is it harmful for your fragile ego to accept its limitations?
Here in the world of OSHO I am the witness from the ground zero.
Unfortunately, Shantam, little or nothing you’ve ever stated here convinces me you have a clue what Osho’s work was, particularly at an individual, internal level.
You’re hung up on numbers, on a vast community, on ‘celebration days’, on dead rituals, on devotional bullshine, on access to western women…So typically Indian, so thoroughly mediocre.
Satyadeva, if you really want to discuss then first and for most important thing is to be transparent and accountable for one´s words. This is possible when someone takes the responsibility to stand behind his utterances.
Therefore my request is, share your photograph to ascertain who you are. Because you prefer deep insightful discussions, for me, it is important than to know some astrological background of the person.
If you are willing to take such small steps in this direction, then we can create a dialogue interesting enough for others to enjoy. If not, don´t bother me.
Enjoy your idea of Osho or anybody else. If you think yours is the partial truth or absolute, I have no interest.
Trust you to be so hung up on surface appearances, absolutely typical!
And I wouldn’t trust you with my or anyone’s astro chart, simply because you’ve given no evidence of any capacity for self-reflection, any self-insight beyond a bare minimum.
Moreover, you continually use this place for what amounts to sheer, unadulterated propaganda, you have no real interest in any topic or anything anyone says unless you can somehow manipulate it to attempt to push your own personal agenda into everyone else’s faces.
Professor Brian Cox brands astrology-believing Tory MP David Tredinnick an ‘outlier on the spectrum of reason’
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/professor-brian-cox-brands-astrologybelieving-tory-mp-david-tredinnick-an-outlier-on-the-spectrum-of-reason-10088421.html
Cox is the ‘you can be a cool and groovy-looking ex-keyboardist in a band, with an Oasis accent, you don’t have to be a spotty, autistic nerd with 2 inch thick glasses to be a scientist’ face of popular science.
As opposed to Richard Dawkins’ ‘old-school-curmudgeonly dreaming spire ivory tower face.’
And as you say, they both come over as a bit self-satisfied and annoying.
Nevertheless I think that their arguments against astrology are justified. My view is if you want to have a self-awareness game (the prediction aspect of it is sheer bollocks) don`t have one that has claims that impinge on the realm of science. Have a game that is simply a game on its own terms, like tarot, enneagram, human design, constellations, or meditation.
As it happens, I used to study astrology. I even drew up charts and gave readings. One time, I made a chart for a guy and gave a full character interpretation. The guy was blown away and really impressed with what I told him.
A little while later, I realised that I had in fact made the chart using the wrong time and place of birth. I then drew up his actual chart and it looked completely different. All the oppositions, sextiles, conjunctions and so on were different.
These things are about having unusual conversations with people. The theories are not scientific at all and they don`t need to be, it`s an artistic communication phenomena. Pretensions to scientific validity are unneccesary and battling with the likes of Cox and Dawks is a waste of time. Let them slug it out with the creationists and monotheists, they are good at that.
He always struck me as reasonably straightforward. Sannyas News has had regularly postings from individuals with their heads further up their own bottoms than he has, by miles.
Satyadeva,
Do you really believe you are very deep and your search is purely for the so- called Inner?
My feeling is you are a trustworthy good man. If someone wants to park the money, You will be the right one.
(About money, I won´t recommend Lokesh, even for a day).
At this time of the week, it’s a resounding “but of course” to your questions, and your highly perceptive, er, ‘right bang on the money’ second paragraph. Dead right about Lokesh – just send it all, asap, to me, ok? (bank: Santander, a/c no: 3756337, sort code: 09-01-26). Cheers.
Because of DNA testing, it becomes easier to ascertain who is the father in case women had multiple lovers.
Unfortunately, in the world of multiple masters, disciples go berserk.
They start imposing one´s life sketches over the other.
There are disciples who feel impressed by Ramana Maharishi or Punja ji or some other ABC and add their thoughts on OSHO.
Similarly, orphans from the school of Osho will go here and there and then complain, “There was no depth in his talks.”
King´s College in England has recently done a study over the size of men´s best friend. I think some psychological study needs to be done over the so- called Enlightenment or State of Avatara!
El Chudo blurts, “There are disciples who feel impressed by Ramana Maharishi or Punja ji or some other ABC and add their thoughts on OSHO.”
Having such a narrow mind must surely cause the poor blighter terrible headaches. I was just running through the comments and came across SD’s response to something you said: “Unfortunately, Shantam, little or nothing you’ve ever stated here convinces me you have a clue what Osho’s work was, particularly at an individual, internal level.”
I agree wholeheartedly. Not a clue sums up Chud brain’s attitude in a chudshell.
Yes but unfortunately in world of multiple masters disciples go berserk and constipated ayatollahs will be 69ing on podium with 66 or even 99 multiple lovers listening to Deva Premal kind of music and mindfuckers are licking cold marble during acid attack on lamas with multiple partners then some abc Maharshi-in-exile of religion things must be available before old can be replaced so chuddies can be replaced with mala by witmesses from the ground zero before woman with multiple lovers`father can have DNA test!
Lokesh, do you think your navel is the epic center of the world? If not yours, then someone closer to you?
There is a saying, “Money speaks, wealth whispers.” Still it is not too late to be a wealthy man, Mr. Lokesh.
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
These western baboons have abused the freedom that Osho has given them, as you clearly point out, and gone berserk in search of multiple partners, even 69ing with constipated liberal ayatollahs on holy podiums!
Thank you, Bhai, for that piece of information, I was not aware of the new lows of depravity that those mindfuckers and lama-lickers trying to obtain ultimate orgasm with multiple masters had fallen into!
Make no mistake, you are playing a vital role in the genesis of how religions evolve and it is absolutely necessary that there is someone with no-mind at ground zero for all the invisible readers!
Like professors Dawkins and Cox, rational baboons understand nothing of the ancient Vedic science of starsigns!
And the Scottish ex-baboon Lokesh clearly needs financial advice from one such as you who has exported the time-honoured wisdom of mighty Bhorat to the spiritual wasteland of the West by using siddhis acquired in your homeland to extract money from the unconscious German people in order to fund your search for the ultimate,which you have found in the realm of Japanese zen porn!
And in the process, also surrendering and allowing yourself to be a vehicle for the bad karma that was inevitably coming to Deutschland!
Western science, which was predated by 5000 years by the science of mighty Bhorat, will never be able to understand or comprehend the nature of the noxious gases that blow mindlessly through the rings of Uranus at ever-more frequent intervals!
Keep up the heroic work, bhai!
On behalf of all the invisible readers, including my own guru, Swami Bhorat, I urge you to keep up the good work which has done so much to increase the karmic possibilties at Sannyas News!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
Anand Yogi,
There are few things common in us. We are Indian, we are Osho disciples and we know Japanese zen porn!
Evolution does not end here. Western glamour and Indian dirty talk needs to be acknowledged too. Fantasy of the Indian mind, be it spirituality or sexuality is highly refined as well as crude.
This makes India the land where all the centuries inhibit together.
Yes, Shantambhai, we are certainly united as brothers who share the vision of mighty Bhorat!
We both understood immediately on contact with the gora that the male western mind was nothing but mind whereas the female western body showed great potential to those who had, up to that point, been religiously oiling their holy lingams for 5000 years!
Modi has certainly made a great contribution by declaring that many surgical procedures originated in our mighty religion, which, as you have tirelessly pointed out, has been overrun by alcoholic Anglo-Saxons!
Is it not true that our very underwear has been grafted onto us before we were born?
And Vedic advances in stem cell surgery and astrological sciences has produced brain stem death on a wide scale and resulted in a wave of no-mind amongst the people, you and I included!
And you are perfectly correct when you say that “dirty Indian talk must be acknowledged”!
It is perfectly natural from one born in a religion where it is customary to blow the lingam of the father, grandfather and any other relative who has not yet been dispatched into his new life wearing the centuries-old holey underwear!
It is our tradition!
Osho also wished to build a religion.
The absurd western psycho-analists believe in some nonsense about ‘working on yourself’, finding out who you are from some abc maharishi! The absurdities of the western mind!
Wheras we who are aware of Japanese zen porn know full well what it means to ‘work on oneself!
So, it is left to those such as you and I to continue the age-old indic traditions but updated for the new yuga with a bit of kama sutra hanky-panky thrown in!
If mighty Bhorat could absorb Buddha’s teachings, which were rebellious and anti-hindu, and turn him into an incarnation of Vishnu, then why not Osho?
We can remain holy and still get a bit of rumpy-pumpy as we are going along!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Anand Yogi, we were missing you, again lots of laughter, and when you say “continue the age-old Indic traditions but updated for the new yuga with a bit of Kama sutra hanky-panky thrown in!”, it is really hilarious! Loved it! XXX
You’re not a Brit, are you Tan, but you have a fantastic grasp of idiomatic English, vernacular and slang.
（‐＾▽＾‐）オーホッホ
(MOD: TRANSLATE SIGNS, PLEASE!)
It means bet you can’t guess what this means, MOD.
Giving a thumbs-up sign and grinning good-naturedly at the same time.
Tan,
You are clearly not aware that like so many words in the English language hanky panky is derived from the Hindi, like bungalow, verandah, pyjama, bandanna, shampoo.
‘Kama Sutra hanky panky wallah’ is meaning: one who sits on backside all day reading Kama Sutra and pulling his string.
Keep it coming, Yogi.