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It gives us great pleasure to inform you that the ruling party in India, the BJP honored Swami Anand Arun by inviting him as the main speaker to speak on “Indo-Nepal relationships: New Perspectives”at the Bharatiya Janata Party Head Quarter Office in Delhi on 13th September.During the program Swami Arun spoke for about an hour which was greatly appreciated by the BJP members and leaders present at the event. We also met the General Secretary of the BJP, Ram Madhav jee who accepted our invitation to visit Osho Tapoban in near future. Senior BJP leader Ajit Kumar jee also visited and participated in our satsang at Osho Bhagwanshree Meditation Center in Delhi on 14th September.
Here is the link for the video of the same talk given at the BJP headquarters. The video is in Hindi.
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Arun is currying favours.
What a nasty fat git he has turned out to be.
Loads of his inferiority-complex mates will be swooning to this load of crap he has set his name to.
A few years back, it seemed just a provincial farce with Nepalese ex-PM’s being feted, but this Arun bloke really is quite sick with it all.
An EL Chudo type who reckons his version of a proselytising proto-Osho bandwagon can fulfil his and others’ pot-bellied need for world cake-hole and post-prandial book sharing and word-domination mind control.
As with Shantshitpants, Arun is a ritualist gone nuts on frustrated fatness. Luckily, the Hindu nationalists he’s cosying up to are likely to be, like him, a bunch of male inveterate-wanker veggy lentil-heads and lack the energy for anything more than a snoring siesta after the cake and samosa fest is over.
Next time he’s in UK, a well-aimed custard pie should welcome him…he’d probably stoop to licking the remains off the floor.
Now watch his net hacker-mates try their stuff on dissenters here and via email.
Very well said, Prem Martyn
Osho allowed his sannyasins to go wherever they wanted and listen to whomever they wanted to and the only stipulation was to sit at the front. In my book, Swami Arun is doing just that, and SN is jealous.
(The problem) with Nationalists is that they ‘would’ converse with other Nationalists. A couple of years back I remember seeing (Aryan) Indians on US white supremacist forums. Reality ‘is’ stranger than fiction because fiction needs to make sense.
“Osho allowed his sannyasins to go wherever they wanted and listen to whomever they wanted to and the only stipulation was to sit at the front. In my book, Swami Arun is doing just that, and SN is jealous.”
This has to be a wind-up, yes?
“This has to be a wind-up, yes?”
Oh yes, a full wind-up. PM Modi promotes yoga and meditation on the world stage and Swami Arun is standing somewhere near him wearing his mala…
http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/502459/its-fantastic-that-pm-modi-pitched-for-yoga-at-un-says-new-york-instructor.html
Where does Modi promote meditation? Nothing about that in this short news clip. It would be interesting to know what exactly he means by the word, as not all that’s termed ‘meditation’ is ‘right’ meditation, is it? I mean, Nick Clegg (British Deputy Prime Minister) practised TM for a long time – until his very important work role got in the way (he says).
Anyway, what’s the big deal? Yoga’s been mainstream in the West for decades now, things have moved on from the dark days of ’68, when I was regarded as an oddball in certain circles for practising yoga asanas after reading a paperback manual.
If you really believe Arun sees ‘spiritual potential’ of the Sannyas kind in Modi rather than being concerned about the future of the Pune ashram then I suggest you’re being extremely naïve, sir.
“PM Modi promotes yoga and meditation on the world stage and Swami Arun is standing somewhere near him wearing his mala….”
So what’s Arun (and loads of Nepalese and Indians) doing wearing a mala, after Osho advised not to bother? Pretty simple really, I guess, he’s busy promoting a new ‘religion’ and the more ‘uniform’ is visible, the better. He might well have political and cultural considerations other areas of the world don’t, although it strikes me as very ‘old hat’, very conventional in fact: most ironically (especially with face-in-locket) – the ‘respectable’ face of Sannyas! Maybe he feels – like a cautious politician – it’s the safest way?
I notice Kabir1440 also likes to display his ‘orange-and-mala’ sannyashood…Wonder what his motivations are – nice spiritual image, perhaps, something with which to fool others and himself?!! (Told ya I ‘know’ ya, Kabby-boy!).
BV, could you consider re-wording the “Osho allowed” bit above, as to me it sounds a bit of a crap way of life to have ever committed to, let alone countenance in casual retrospect, given that what I read here is not necessarily what you mean about what he said…
Although the BNP in the UK have just allowed their ex-leader to be sacked…and Arun has allowed people to imagine all sorts of things about his motives…I’m not sure I can allow it to be allowed, out loud…if you follow my drift…or allow me.
Signed,
An SN Modi-rater.
“BV, could you consider re-wording the “Osho allowed” bit above, as to me it sounds a bit of a crap way of life to have ever committed to..”
My humble apologies. “Osho insisted” that we experienced alternative viewpoints, as long as we sat at the front.
BV, would you consider ‘allowing him to insist’, as a peace offering ? I’ll be at the back as usual, heckling.
For your reading pleasure, here is a news about this talk in Delhi which was carried by Republica daily. http://www.myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=83682
There is no need for someone who has, by definition, left the societal norms of the world and become a sannyasin, to show any interest in Hindu politics.
In fact, I very much doubt whether Arun is interested himself in Hindu politics, but he is very interested in the legacy of Osho, part of which he sees is a sort of old Poona without the encounter, and with enormous lacings of devotion and a place of pilgrimage with a Samadhi.
Such a legacy is likely to appeal to Modi and thereby lead to the ejection of those entrusted with Osho’s legacy from the Man himself – if Arun and others persuade him of such.
Although one of the great features of Osho’s Sannyas has always been how it attracts so many different types of people, I doubt if there will ever be a single, ‘unified’ (as it were) movement, as since his passing there are too many differing, openly conflicting versions ( Arun’s, Swami R’s, the Resort’s, Shantam’s (!), to cite just four) to realistically expect anything other than a sort of sectarian set-up, perhaps somewhat similar to what’s happened in various long-established ‘official’ religions, eg Buddhism especially, which mutated along its journey from India to Japan, via China.
God only knows what Osho would have made of Arun’s ‘getting-into-bed’ with the Hindu nationalists…Useless speculation of course, but with Modi in charge of the country, he surely wouldn’t have remained silent – perhaps he might even have preferred to try to live somewhere else….
It’s obvious, of course, but don’t pretty well all the problems that beset Osho’s Sannyas arise from its collective aspect? This for many has been one of its greatest attractions (holding the hope of a ‘second family’ that promises to be so much better than the first!) and indeed one of its greatest strengths – yet also, in a way, a source of weakness, not only tending to induce feelings of over-dependency on the community, but also tending to obscure the simple fact that ultimately Sannyas is a highly individual matter.
Perhaps easterners are naturally more inclined to see it all as very much a collective thing, but I wonder whether most westerners, especially the ones now of very many years’ experience ‘in the field’, are really that bothered. Somehow, I doubt it.
“I wonder whether most westerners, especially the ones now of very many years’ experience ‘in the field’, are really that bothered. Somehow, I doubt it.”
The other day (as a westerner) I was watching some video of Oshodhara on youtube and the men were dancing on one side and the women on the other…To me, that is more apostatic to Osho’s views than standing next to a Nationalist.
As I said, the Sannyas future is almost certainly sectarian, based on preferences of nationality, culture, specific needs (eg therapy), claims of ‘entitlement’ (eg Swami R’s bullshine) etc.etc.
The ‘joke’ is that in all probability each sect (or most of them) will claim to be the sole representatives of ‘Osho’s Vision’, purveyors of his ‘Legacy’. Sad, really.
Still, that’s life, I guess, par for the human course. And as long as wherever you’re at you can find a niche somewhere in Osho’s Sannyas (or wherever you’re drawn by the mysterious processes of Life) then maybe in the end it won’t really matter.
“I doubt if there will ever be a single, ‘unified’ (as it were) movement, as since his passing there are too many differing, openly conflicting versions..”
That is what happens when ‘one’ gives conflicting answers to the same question…
(I wonder who that ‘one’ was??).
Spurious nonsense, Vartan. ‘Politics’, even of the Sannyas kind, is one thing – being, like all politics, essentially about power; a master’s teachings are quite another. Totally different contexts.
“all politics, essentially about power”
Not always. Sometimes it is about survival.
Osho might not have cared about his legacy or whatever, but others do (and strangely enough…probably… always did).
Fair enough, Vartan, I wouldn’t question any ‘party’s sincerity, but unfortunately what tends to happen in such cases is the struggle to attain the power necessary to run the show has a corrupting influence, eg the stirring up of internecine ill will, dislike, even hatred, and eventually overshadows the original object of the exercise.
I tend to agree with Osho along the lines of anyone who is attracted to politics is basically stupid. Having just left the UK behind, the impression left on my mind by how much political news is broadcast there by the media is still fresh in my mind. One thing that always strikes me about politicians is their lack of resemblance to any of my friends and what boring shite they talk. The political correspondents even more so. I reckon it’s the same the world over, including India.
This is an interesting little speech (only 9 minutes) from Arun talking about his time with Osho in Manali (circa 1986). It sort of demonstrates my point that Arun is, and has always been, a disguised politician. Towards the middle of this clip he talks of asking Osho to “moderate” his responses to Indian politicians – an odd thing for a disciple to ask of a Master. It’s worth a watch bearing in mind this perspective. I owe knowledge of this clip to Vartan. Thanks.
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Osho Sandesh Video Magazine that is released by Tapoban twice in a month can be found on the YouTube Channel OSHO SANDESH VMAGAZINE. The thirteen issues of these magazines explain what is happening in Nepal.
Here is the latest issue, Issue XIII. Maybe these videos will give a clearer picture.
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Are you missing anything..? Then we’ve got what you think you need…
and we will always have more of what you haven’t got enough of
because we are realising ourselves whilst you are merely surviving with yourself…as usual…
Smile…
Love…
PS: Please note: Change at the level of dependent identity is not offered and investments may go up or down and are not guaranteed.
Managed to watch it to the end.
Seemed a well presented PR thing to me. Did not give me a clearer picture of the “politics” being generated. In particular could not see the relevance of giving a talk on Nepalese/India relations within an Indian nationalist context.
Osho once gave a blessing to Indira Gandhi. In 1978, Indira Gandhi received a Darshan Diary and a book of Osho’s discourses on Zen. She was supposedly reading one of Osho’s books immediately prior to her assassination.
Even politicians are human beings and can become interested in sannyas and/or personal growth. So I am not going to condemn “flirting with nationalist Hindus.” My understanding is that sannyasins are free to flirt with anyone they choose.
Yes, Kabir1440, “even politicians are human beings”, yet, let’s face it, the vast majority of them appear so utterly consumed by the great ego-trip of the love of and lust for power that it’s very difficult to conceive of them being truly committed to ‘spiritual life’, ie the investigation of and wilful dismantling of the ‘self’ (that very ‘ego’).
Indira Gandhi seemed a bit different, yes, which I imagine is why Osho appeared to ‘court’ her to an extent. Clearly, it was a good idea to keep the powers-that-were onside, especially if they were actually or potentially ‘sympathetic’. Although she was not different enough to renounce her political career.
Difficult for her, I guess, as she was ‘born into it’, conditioned for the role, a bit like the British royal family where Prince Charles, for example, is another one who’s almost certainly ‘interested’ in and sympathetic to Osho, but for whom actual renunciation of his public office would be simply unthinkable. I mean, can you just imagine what the media would make of it – the poor man wouldn’t have a moment’s peace! Besides which, of course, he probably enjoys his role, the privilege, the wealth etc. etc., despite its rather severe built-in restrictions.
‘Interest’ and tacit or even ostensible support is one thing, personal commitment is quite another. I suggest that from all known evidence the likelihood of any Hindu Nationalist Party member, let alone its leader, Modi himself, genuinely taking on board Osho and his teaching, is not far short of 0.001 (and those are generous odds!).
If you think Arun really believes in Modi as a potential ‘Osho person’ then I say you’re just being too naïve for words (and if Arun does then so is he!). No, as Parmartha says, he has what he and his lot want to be the future of the Pune ashram in mind – plus, I suggest, a wish to keep on the right side of the Hindu Party, to avoid any possible persecution by their extremists. Perhaps in today’s mad political world the latter might be a fairly prudent strategy, I don’t know how things are over there, he does.
Kabir1440 – You are wasting your breath, the SannyasNews comments section is just a place where all the Village Idiots of the Sannyas world gather to spew their venom.
Most people who comment here have never meditated, they are in the mind, and try to understand everything with the mind. And they are extremely arrogant.
Maybe there is hope for politicians; there have been politicians like Swami Maitreya who was an Indian politician and after he met Osho, gave it all up and in the end became enlightened.
http://o-meditation.com/category/osho/oshos-sannyasins/anand-maitreya/
But there is NO HOPE for these SannyasNews idiots who have heard Osho for 20-30 years and they have become very arrogant. They have never meditated and they are still trying to understand everything with the mind.
Probably most of them are British – British people are some of the most judgmental, arrogant people on Earth.
“But there is NO HOPE for these SannyasNews idiots who have heard Osho for 20-30 years and they have become very arrogant. They have never meditated and they are still trying to understand everything with the mind.”
Point of info, Prem: Quite a few SN ‘regulars’ have been around Osho for 30-40 (plus) years.
Anyway, would you like your above claim to be tested? I suggest a poll is taken of regular contributors to SN, re their meditative practice(s). I reckon you might be surprised by the outcome.
As for, “Probably most of them are British – British people are some of the most judgmental, arrogant people on Earth”, well, perhaps you’d care to look in your mirror and see whether similar traits apply to you? Don’t forget to note any traces of racism as well, of course…
Make it a meditation, perhaps….
PS: Congratulations on a post clearly written from the boundless, pristine realms of ‘no-mind’.
You’re an example to everyone in Sannyas, sir!
PPS: I trust, Prem, that for you the word ‘meditation’ also implies a meditative, ie self-aware, self-examining, way of being, not just the practice of certain techniques?
However, from your post I’m not sure you do.
I’m wearing full body armour and a crash helmet, so please go ahead with the attack….
Prem does not appear to have a profile here.
I wonder why?
I think we should be told!!
Satyadeva –
Yes, I meant meditation, not as quantitative daily meditation practice, but as a qualitative leap.
Meditation as a state of awareness, beyond practice.
The fact that you get all defensive, each word, only proves that you have never meditated.
The fact that you need to point that they have meditated for 30-40 years, and not 20-30 years — meditation is not quantitative. It has nothing to do with time.
Re your last paragraph, no “need” at all, Prem, just a simple point of information, to make sure facts are stated, rather than mere ill-informed guesses.
As for your second paragraph, well, how old are you – 14? Dream on, mate.
PS: Have you read Parmatha’s comment re your failure to register here? You’re probably lucky to have had your comments allowed.
Prem Bhai,
Still wasting your breath on the baboons?
You should careful, bhai!
Shantam was once like you!
Full of the innocence of mighty Bharat, with goolies of bliss mindlessly exploding into timeless meditation 24/7.
But then he started to argue and fight with baboons and they dragged him down to their level!
Now, by wasting his breath instead of watching it, he has developed spiritual halitosis which sends forth its filthy music from both ends and even the holiest of holy heavy-duty chuddies have not been able to contain the flow, which like the mighty Ganga, is in urgent need of a good clean-up!
And it is all the fault of western Anglo-Saxon arrogant British judgmental bastards who urinate on our holy shrine and abuse our holy Indian politicians who are simply mass-murdering muslims for karmic reasons that the ignorant westerner who does not know anything about India cannot understand because of his judgmental mind which has never meditated!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Blimey.
With Prem around,it looks like Anand Yogi might have to go down the Job Centre!
Yes indeed, Prem.
Yet despite all these failings you were still allowed to post here.
Hmmm!!!
At least Prem, Sirrah,
one can comment here largely without major moderation, unlike most of the rest of the Sannyas cyber world, that do not allow comments even!
Freedom of Speech is a difficult notion, especially for those who basically have an authoritarian subconscious!
Also, we notice you are very much annonymous. You are not a registered member here, which should you become, it might help us to honour your views a little more.
Glory, glory hallejulah!
Beloved Prem wrote,
“SN comments section is just a place where all the Village Idiots of the Sannyas world gather to spew their venom.”
Thank you for the ‘manna from heaven’, Beloved Prem! Just as the ‘scene’ on S ‘n’ N was beginning to look a little ‘threadbare’ and mediocre, you have provided the ‘baboon troop’ with something to sink their fangs into! A regular ‘sitting duck’, you are! Sorry, I mean a very obvious ‘sitting duck’, to be more precise.
I’m wondering a little about you though, dearly Beloved Prem…Could it be you get your kicks out of rattling the baboons’ cages, while you stand back and enjoy the show they put on howling and screaming with fangs bared? Are you a ‘troll’, BP? If you are, I will not hold it against you as there are worse things in my book, like a ‘Holy Shoiter’, for example, but’s let not get into that right now.
Let us suppose for the time being that you are indeed attempting to be honest and sincere in your valuable comments! In which case, BP (Beloved Prem), might it have occurred to you that in condemning ‘us baboons’ in the negative terms that you have employed you have also condemned yourself as a ‘Village Idiot’? Remember, dearest BP, the popular maxim used by many psychotherapists and others, which goes,
“WHAT YOU MOST HATE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, IS WHAT YOU MOST HATE ABOUT YOURSELF!”
If I am correct in my theoretical supposition that you are a ‘Village Idiot’ too, then I genuinely feel compassion for you, as you seem to be totally unaware of it in a very innocent, idiotic way. This ‘failing’ is borne out to some extent by the rather naïve way in which you have presented yourself as such an easy target.
In conclusion, BP, (and still assuming that you are sincere + not troll-like), I would, however, like to point out that although some of us on SN occasionally stoop to the level of ‘Village Idiots’, WE ARE AWARE OF IT!…WELL, A LITTLE BIT…SOMETIMES ( at least I like to think that Prem Martyn and I are!). You do not seem to be aware of your own ‘idiocy’ and therefore as well as being a ‘Village Idiot’, I think it is only right that I bless you with the highest honorific of ‘COMPLETE IDIOT!’
I don’t wish to be arrogant and overbearing, but I would like to suggest that it could be your current meditation practice which does not allow you insight into your own very ‘blind-spots’? If that is the case, I would recommend a change of practice so that you are able to see yourself as the arrogant, judgemental and racist idiot that you are.
I’m sorry Beloved Prem, but this is the sorry picture you have painted of yourself. Please meditate on this sad condition, forever and ever, amen!
Beloved Prem, please accept my undying thanks and gratitude for allowing me the welcome opportunity to tickle ‘me own bollicks’ ( For the non-UK viewers, this latter phrase roughly translates as ‘tickle myself’).
With very best wishes from a ‘Village Idiot’ to a ‘Complete Idiot’,
Ashok
Sorry to say, each word in your comment only confirms my point stated above
Kabir, born in 1440…
Bit of a difference here. Indira Gandhi was not a member of the Janata party, which is devoted to re-establishing a rather extreme form of Indian Hindu Nationalism, and not at all eclectic.
She may or may not have been interested in Osho, but if she was she apparently vouched it herself. This current flirtation of Arun with Modi is the other way round.
I would like to know your source for saying that Indira was reading Osho shortly before she was assassinated.
I was around in India during Indira’s ‘reign’. It was somewhat dictatorial…Laxmi, it was well known, wanted to create links with that government to gain support for her grand plan of moving the ashram to Kutch.
As I have said before, I don’t think that Arun or Keerti are really that interested in Modi and his party, but they want an alliance to forward their plans to make the Resort into a shrine and Samadhi, and get rid of the westerners! Both have an appeal to the Janata party.
Absolutely correct, Prem!
It is an utter waste of time to speak with British baboons and the depth of your compassion in wasting your time in just such an enterprise shines through!
These racially arrogant idiots have clearly never meditated even for one moment, unlike you who have gone far and deep into no-mind and with not a trace of arrogance, bhai!
And with all the talk of Modi blasting his glorious rocket high into the air, you and I have felt a deep stirring in our our souls and have reclaimed our balls deep in the recesses of our holy underwear that the vile Britishers and muslims had denied us for so long!
It is perfectly correct to judge people by their land of birth and their religion and to attack them with full force!
British are simply vile, arrogant, and the nasty Anglo-Saxon dogs, with the help of the BJP, must be driven out and cleansed from the holiest of holy samadhis and it must be handed back to those beautiful souls such as yourself.
Your contribution to Sannyas News is beautiful, you have written two mails and have shouted abuse at the idiotic, non-meditating, disgusting British baboons.
The creativity that your meditations have opened you up to is wonderfully apparent, bhai!
There is no hope for these baboons, but there is hope for glorious Indian politicians who will become enlightened like Modi. And with Modi in power, these baboons will be `allowed` to convert to Yoga or take the consequences!
You have read the Gita, bhai. In it, it is clear that genocide sometimes is a necessary and very spiritual path.
Modi understands this. And Arun,too.
Prem, I call on you to forget the zen-stick which has failed so miserably with these British idiots and replace it with the lathi, as per Modi and Arun’s vision!
#Go forth and apply the lathi to the idiotic skulls of hopeless, non-meditating, unsattvic, yogaless muslims, homosexuals, women, British and ex-sannyasins!
Will you join us in this holy project, bhai?
I feel strongly that you are of the correct calibre!
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
I had to give it a try at least.
The Zen stick has fallen on deaf ears.
Nice try, Prem, to justify your reactive bullshine by giving it the pretentious and wholly inappropriate term, “Zen stick”.
Yes, neat way to try not to ‘lose face’, to escape from issues about yourself for which you have no adequate response.
“Yes, I meant meditation, not as quantitative daily meditation practice, but as a qualitative leap.
Meditation as a state of awareness, beyond practice.”
So, Prem, it takes me – according to you, someone who’s never meditated in his life – to point out to you – a self-styled ‘expert’ in the field, who thinks himself eminently ‘qualified’ to dish out a so-called “Zen stick” to the ‘ignorant’ – that you had failed to adequately define what meditation is. Due, no doubt, to becoming too caught up in self-righteous anger.
Food for er, ‘thought’, eh?
Now, where’s my trusty ‘Zen stick’..? Ah yes, here it is…
Kappow! Take that, you careless, pretentious, little fool!
Friends,
The following joke I found this morning in Osho News, and that´s the kind of jokes I feel really ´juicy´, especially in times like this. (Otherwise, I am asking myself, ´who´is ´up´ to ´what´, and where and when and what for??…So maybe (too) many tongues in many cheeks, isn´t it?…Or also to say, many cooks are not cooking a good meal and the spices are not good working together).
Here´s the joke (if you don´t have it already in your cheek):
“Barack Obama, Vladimir Putin, and Bill Gates were called in by God.
God informed them that he was very unhappy about what was going on in this world. Since things were so bad, he told the three that he was destroying the Earth in three days. They were all allowed to return to their homes and work and tell their friends and colleagues what was happening. God did tell them though, that no matter what they did he was “not” changing his mind.
Obama went back to the White House and told his staff, “I have good news and bad news for you. First the good news: There “is” a God. The bad news is that he is destroying the Earth in three days.”
Putin went back to the Kremlin and told his staff, “I have good news and terrible news. The first is that there “is” a God. The second is that he is destroying the Earth in three days.”
Bill Gates went back to his office and told his staff, “I have good news and good news. First, God thinks I am one of the three most important people in the world. Secondly, you don’t have to fix the bugs in Windows 8.1.”
Oscillation between two websites (of many) which may belong together in the big ocean of bits and bytes and more in between.
I don´t know much, in fact, I know nothing; but there is this strong feeling that I simply don´t like to be manipulated to go in ANY war kind of stuff.
AND
I feel sorry – friends – tonight.
Madhu
PS:
Names of the politicians can be exchanged, also names of the Internet providers and IT technicians…
And not to forget the Mob Masses of people who are at any time ready to harm, the same way as the so mentioned – and GO into Actions for GAMES like this.
” it’s very difficult to conceive of them being truly committed to ‘spiritual life’, ie the investigation of and wilful dismantling of the ‘self’ (that very ‘ego’).”
Beloved Satyadeva, yes, I admit I am very naive about politicians. Even though Osho condemns them, I am trying to stand on my own two feet and feel compassion for them.
You speak of the “ego” and the investigation of the ego. Is that what sannyas means to you? What does “wilful dismantling” mean?
Also, do you not believe Osho has initiated us into freedom? Does that not allow a sannyasin the freedom to associate with whomever, even politicians?
“Don’t fight with the ego directly. If you do that you will fail, because nobody can fight directly with the shadow. If you have to do something with the shadow you will have to do something with your being. Something-is wrong, a wrong conception. You are a non-being inside — realize more and more the inner hollowness, the emptiness, and suddenly one day you will find the ego has left you. In fact you will find it has never been there, you had a misconception, you were in an illusion. It was a mirage. It was not there, it only appeared to be there; it was not a reality, it was a dream — in fact, a nightmare.”
– Osho, Tao: The Three Treasures, Vol 1, ch. 8
“Sannyas is trust in existence. And the moment you trust, there is no fear, there is no worry, and there is no difficulty. Life becomes the most enjoyable, relaxed phenomenon.
You are asking, Rita, “Why is it so difficult for me to take sannyas?” My suggestion is that you cannot deliberately take sannyas; it is something like love that happens, it is something like sleep that comes. You cannot make any effort for the sleep to come, nor can you make any effort for love to happen — these are not part of the world of doings. Your first difficulty is that you are thinking of taking sannyas. Drop that idea, and sannyas will take you. Suddenly you will realize, “My God, I am a sannyasin.”
– Osho, The Razor’s Edge, ch21
“You speak of the “ego” and the investigation of the ego. Is that what Sannyas means to you? What does “wilful dismantling” mean?”
I’m surprised you even bother to ask, Kabir1440, I’d have thought it was obvious that ‘ego’ means what we normally refer to as our ‘self’ (a better word, in my view), and “wilful dismantling” refers to self-investigation through awareness (‘self-knowledge’, if you like) – you know, meditation and all that!
“Also, do you not believe Osho has initiated us into freedom? Does that not allow a sannyasin the freedom to associate with whomever, even politicians?”
Like Prem Martyn, I’m uncomfortable with this word “allow” – as if Sannyas was a set-up run by rules and regulations, do’s and don’ts…Careful, your authoritarian tendencies are showing, Kabir1440!
But you’ve missed the point here, which is that Arun clearly isn’t ‘just’ associating with Modi because he feels like it, or thinks he might have ‘spiritual potential’, or because he just happened to bump into him in New York, it’s due to certain ‘political’ motivations already outlined here by Parmartha and others, motivations that are in fact rather questionable, to say the least.
Unless you’re one of those who prefers that the Pune ashram becomes a typically Indian sort of place, run by Indians with all their communal, regressively sentimental, traditional devotional stuff to the fore (not to mention the spectre of growing racism in certain circles – see Prem’s post of today)?
Kabir.
“Also, do you not believe Osho has initiated us into freedom? Does that not allow a sannyasin the freedom to associate with whomever, even politicians?”
Of course this is so, but in this heaven of unrestricted freedom, well, license in fact, surely others are free to raise doubts, question the actions, or do you think they should be more restricted than yourself and the individuals you admire; a multi-level freedom hierarchy, as it were?
“…surely others are free to raise doubts, question the actions, or do you think they should be more restricted than yourself and the individuals you admire; a multi-level freedom hierarchy, as it were?”
No, Arpana, no one should be restricted from questioning the actions of others.
I won’t be participating. Carry on without me.
Good for you.
So much cleaner in an ivory tower.
Arpana, you have the right to “question the actions” of others. You decide if you want to use your energy in that way. You have that freedom as a sannyasin.
You can choose politics or meditation. Politics involves choosing sides and creates divisions. Meditation is being relaxed, aware, and non-judgemental. A choiceness awareness, a radical acceptance, a Yes! to Existence.
“Let this be the criterion always: Anything that makes you festive, anything that gives you celebration, anything that makes you dance and sing to such an extent that you disappear in your dancing, in your singing, in your celebration…is the only true religion I know of. No God is needed, no heaven and hell are needed. All that is needed is a simple understanding that mind is the source of negativities – because those negativities make it the master, and you become a slave.”
– Osho, The Rebellious Spirit, ch. 24
This is isn’t political, I take it?
Your not trying to have the last word????
“You can choose politics or meditation. Politics involves choosing sides and creates divisions. Meditation is being relaxed, aware, and non-judgemental. A choiceness awareness, a radical acceptance, a Yes! to Existence.”
All very well, all very carefully selected, idealistically ‘spiritually correct Sannyas-speak’, Kabir, but (besides your contradicting such an ‘edict’ by engaging in debate here!) this can also be the undiscriminating creed of the fool, bound to cause problems in certain situations, not least if it entails a refusal to face up to situations where “choosing sides” is a prerequisite, including but not limited to one’s very survival.
For example, standing up to someone trying to exploit you, or someone taking advantage of another, either as an individual (personal intervention) or on a collective level (mass action, including, if necessary, war).
Or, less dramatically threatening, committing oneself to supporting a cause – eg re the future of the Pune ashram; or, outside the little world of Sannyas, making a stand against nation states’ inhumane practices by supporting Amnesty International; or opposing commercial interests that want to spoil an area for thousands of people by building an ugly office block. Each of these involves “choosing sides”, entering into conflict, renouncing passivity.
If you think that’s not being ‘spiritual’ enough, then I suggest you’re on the wrong track, Sam – er, I mean, Kabir. Unless, of course, you think Osho saying, ‘Be in the world, but not of it’ was directing his people to be or become ungrounded fools, separate from the world, fair game for anyone….
DO YOU HAVE FAVOURITES? AM I ONE OF THEM?
I am reminded of an Arabian proverb:
It is said that whenever God creates a person he whispers into his ear, “You are my favourite. I have never made such a beautiful person before, and I am not going to make such a beautiful person again. You are simply unique.” But this he has been doing to everybody and everybody deep down in his heart thinks
“Whatsoever God has said, one believes.”
You are my favourite. And this is not addressed to anybody in particular, but to everybody. In fact, to choose as favourite or not is not possible for me. It depends on you, you can become my favourite, you may not become; it is a one-way traffic. If you allow, you will become; if you don’t allow, you will not become.
As far as I am concerned, I am not.
Osho.
Tao: The Pathless Path, Vol 1
Chapter #10
Chapter title: You are blessed
20 February 1977 am in Buddha Hall
And in the battle of the Osho quotes, the winner is…
Not always a battle.
Sometimes just for fun.
To share even.
“…Interest’ and tacit or even ostensible support is one thing, personal commitment is quite another. I suggest that from all known evidence the likelihood of any Hindu Nationalist Party member, let alone its leader, Modi himself, genuinely taking on board Osho and his teaching, is not far short of 0.001 (and those are generous odds!)…”
True, Satyadeva – and may be you can enlighten me, why then we discuss that here ? Is it for some trade marketing of Oshos work ? And the shameful advocate jungle fights ? Or what ?
Madhu
” ‘Interest’ and tacit or even ostensible support is one thing, personal commitment is quite another. I suggest that from all known evidence the likelihood of any Hindu Nationalist Party member, let alone its leader, Modi himself, genuinely taking on board Osho and his teaching, is not far short of 0.001 (and those are generous odds!)”
True, Satyadeva – and maybe you can enlighten me as to why then we discuss that here? Is it for some trade marketing of Osho’s work? And the shameful advocate jungle fights? Or what?
Madhu
Didn’t you read Parmartha’s response to this same question you asked a few days ago, Madhu?
Plus his post of earlier today?
“Didn’t you read Parmartha’s response to this same question you asked a few days ago, Madhu?”
Yes, I did, Satyadeva, and I had my reasons to quote you as to ask you about it.
I experience you both, Parmartha and you, yourself – in reading – quite different and even when your responses are seemingly the “same”; it’s never the same though.
Apparently also, when contributors are going into quoting Osho, I feel some hide, like behind a screen and some less,or even not.
The virtual realms in which all is happening is a challenge of its own to start to sense other communication issues as such as habituated as underlying forces.
I am interested in the communion aspect of communication and still didn´t give up that such may be also possible in virtual surroundings with virtual conditions.
So I am still up to that REAL persons in a body (not available besides what they expose in ´words´) EXIST with an everyday life, with everyday life´s joys or troubles or blissful moments of nothingness in between, which is never showing up in words but sometimes is tangible .
I just have seen how much energy is aroused and you gave to that whole stuff and yet found so clear words about the kind of uselessness to deal with the stuff.
That was a paradox that got me hooked and that´s why I asked you, and not Parmartha.
Madhu
http://www.oshoviha.org/connection/2004-May-June/ss-anasha.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfie_Donnelly
http://www.zeichentrickserien.de/bibi.htm
The virtual life is full of adventures, links and magic ideas, just like with Bibi Blocksberg.
If Arun continues the way he is going he might become the Mayor of Neustadt….
“There is no need for someone who has, by definition, left the societal norms of the world and become a sannyasin, to show any interest in Hindu politics.
In fact, I very much doubt whether Arun is interested himself in Hindu politics, but he is very interested in the legacy of Osho, part of which he sees is a sort of old Poona without the encounter, and with enormous lacings of devotion and a place of pilgrimage with a Samadhi.
Such a legacy is likely to appeal to Modi and thereby lead to the ejection of those entrusted with Osho’s legacy from the Man himself – if Arun and others persuade him of such.”
Parmartha , I could be wrong here, but Swami Arun is more interested in his own Samadhi and with enormous lacings of devotion and a place of pilgrimage with a Samadhi, which he has already started planning for himself!
Yes, Kavita, you could well be right!
“Good for you.
So much cleaner in an ivory tower.”
My journey is not finished, Arpana, maybe yours is, I don´t know.
And yes, I have favourites – sometimes. Like you all pretend or really have.
When I addressed Anand Yogi, the way I did, some have been busy with correcting me or gave that a try.
And sure, quoting the Master also does indeed mostly do THE good ´job´.
And yes, I am not choiceless in perceiving those who quote.
Content?
Madhu
PS:
For example, the ´quoting Arpana´ and the Arpana who relates in his own words to other entities here I am experiencing quite different; it has to be that way.
And in the quoting, you are my favourite so to say.
Content again?
Madhu
Thank you.
“Nepalese Sannyasin Leader flirts with Indian Hindu Nationalists” – What a Taboo.
If it was like,
‘British Sannsyasin leader Flirts with the girl younger than his daughter’…
This would have been an acceptable behaviour, religiously sanctioned way of life.
How easier it is to throw stones at the soft targets!
Maybe too much idealism creates North Korea kind of leaders and followers. Life is easier to follow the usual path.
And another PS, Arpana…
I may have been relating to one of your responses you may have addressed to ´Kabir1440′ – and put on wrong schoos – and there’s always something in it, isn´t there?
Sometimes, since cyberworld is going to contain ´us´ somehow, I feel like in a wrong (right?) movie, like manufactured by David Lynch, with his series ‘Twin Peaks’, which, at the beginning of the nineties, last century, have been watched in a kind of junkie´s way.
I worked for life´s sustaining then and there in a big Munich restaurant kitchen and the whole big team working there to earn their money so that they could be musicians (which they couldn´t live on at that time) had but one chat-subject in the mornings…the new plot of the series episode of the previous evening).
They were very much contemptuous of sannyasins (like me) by the way – and I had a pretty tough time working there. In the evenings, I took a shower, went into the TAO centre for Meditation with the Master’s Silence in between the words – and that was my Home Base, so to say. Otherwise, the whole thing started that I quite often felt and am feeling in ´a wrong film´, how we express that here.
David Lynch, a kind of ´Dominus´ in the Transcendental Meditation Movement, though I feel as a very unsympathetic, vain guy ( saw a long documentary about that movement and him, made by an insider).
But his movies show a lot of stuff about our mutating…into…something…
A human being out of flesh and blood and spirit, and especially a woman, is sometimes in the situation that can be (develop that way) taken as an algorithm more than as a human being, in a ´social´ world being very much into the GAME industry, sometimes more conscious as other times sometimes in DEEP unconsciousness.
A challenge.
Madhu
According to the Vice President of the United States, Joe Biden, Narendra Modi, the Prime Minister of India was “fasting” during some important parts of his visit to the USA.
Can one of our Indian friends tell us why this might have been, and also does it not seem totally inappropriate given that Modi needed to be in good fettle given the importance of his talks with Kerry and Obama.
Isn’t this Hindu self-inflation – to make such a public fast – at such an important time?
Big P.
Re. Modi “fasting a lot”
I think you will find that it was a misprint!
Hari Om!
Pffft…!
Perhaps he’s imitating Mahatma Gandhi, pretending he’s a ‘man of Destiny’ – you know, ‘great’ and all that sort of thing.
Parmartha, how little you know about India or how much?
And Satya Deva, you?
Hundreds of millions of Hindus, mostly Gujratis, observe some kind of fasting during the days PM Modi was in USA. As per the information about his life, “He is doing this for last 30 years, from the time he was nobody in the hierarchy of his political outfit.”
Modi is not some kind of Messiah, neither he is some kind of devil, but a kind of politician India is lucky to have.
Maybe you guys think Indians should hire Bush or Blair or some faithful Osho Inner circle member!
Some people here have questioned the extremist background of Narendra Modi. But do they really know about 2002?
Paradoxically enough the United States Department of State banned Narendra Modi (who was first minister of the state in which anti-Moslem riots occurred).
He was banned from travelling to the United States due to his alleged role. These allegations centre around several facts. First, the state did little to quell the anti-Muslim violence, with attacks continuing well through to the following Spring. Further, some attackers used voter lists and other documents obtainable ONLY with government assistance in order to target Muslim communities and households.
Moreover, the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), as well as many politicians, including Modi, made inflammatory remarks and endorsed strikes, further stoking tensions. Gyanendra Pandey described these attacks as state terrorism, and that they were not riots but “organized political massacres”.
According to Paul Brass, the only conclusion from the evidence which is available points to a methodical Anti-Muslim pogrom which was carried out with exceptional brutality and was highly co-ordinated under the umbrella of state assistance.
I echo Parmartha’s response, Shantam. Of course I’m no ‘expert’ on India, having made just two visits, one to Bombay/Pune, the other to Andra Pradesh (Bangalore/Sai Baba’s Puttapathi) and it’s 18 years since I was last there, although during my 10 months in the country I got to know a fair number of Indians so had some sort of insight into the people. (Also, for what it’s worth, I’ve known a couple of London Bangladeshi families pretty well over the last 15 years or so).
Seeing those recent photos at SN I wrote to the editors:
“Although poverty is dreadful, there’s something about India that’s endearingly fascinating, for one thing they’re incredibly resourceful.
Seems the economic tide’s turning their way, but I hope it doesn’t eventually destroy the ‘life in the raw’ element of the country, which is so different to our rather bland (but not in Camden Town!) surroundings – refreshingly so, really, although often shocking enough. Wonder how their version of ‘westernisation’ will work out….”
As for the new, ‘westernised’ (or aspiring to / getting there) middle-class, well, I’m afraid I have a few misgivings. I tend to feel that there’s nothing worse than an Indian trying to be like a westerner. I came across a few such types in Brunei (Borneo), who were working in IT and appallingly ambitious, neurotically so, it seemed. No obvious “soul of India” there….
Here is an image of India that sort of supplements the thread! One had an affectionate chuckle!
I guess that’s called ‘getting one’s catheter in early’!
Yes maybe that is why this pic. particularly appealed!
This picture is not of India, if one looks closely it looks more like some Middle Eastern country.
And another!
This looks like some south American country.
And where the trains never run on time!
And another thing.. ..
This looks like South-East Asian country. The railway station is definitely India!
The tragic part of end of Osho Commune International is that thousands of western open hearts have lost connection with the soul of India.
Indians anyway care a damn about the soul of India. They are following photocopy version of the West, “How to produce and consume products.”
Other day I had talk with an industrialist relative. In his opinion, I must have followed a wrong way of living, otherwise how come my monthly income is not in the range of 8000-10,000 euros per month?
We love India, Shantam…Rest assured.
Making the most of what one has, that is really the message of those pics above! And that is to be admired.
Not sure of the new Indian middle-class – frankly. Don’t really know any of them that well. In the UK they do seem to straight-jacket their children, and they live Stepford lives.
Sounds like you are in the Punjab and waltzing with the relatives rather than in Koregoan Park. Are you intending to go to the Resort?
One tip, never stay with relatives more than two nights. It was a rule I conceived when I was 28, and has always served me well over the last forty years!
“One had an affectionate chuckle!”
You must be ´kidding, are you, Parmartha?
Madhu
Indian Maitreya. Prem, has been a Friend of mine. You – by your very arrogant posting – are not. Can not be.
And, by the way, if you feel like a Zen Master, you’remeeting ´deaf ears´ here. How about moving to other places, where your ways to use a stick as well as your Zen – Self-Image is more appreciated?
Humans like Maitreya, I miss a lot in turbulent times.
Madhu
Talking of sannyas and politics, a rare pic:
Indira Gandhi with a bunch of Poona 1 sannyasins.