One-all in Ramateertha’s row with Osho International Foundation

Reply from Inner Circle to the Swiss Conundrums

Beloved Friends and Center representatives,   
Today I am forwarding a letter to you from the Inner Circle concerning
1) the unsuccessful legal case against the Osho trademark and   
2) the very recent new action against the board members of OSHO International Foundation (OIF) in Switzerland.
Vatayana

Beloveds,                                                                                                                                                                      24th June, 2014
We are writing to update you on two of the legal attacks which Osho International Foundation (OIF) has been forced to deal with:

1)            The pending European “Trademark” case – now decided in OIF’s favor. See details below.

2)            A new attack, by the same people who started the “Trademark” case, now directly targeting OIF’s board members. See details below.

Attacks on Osho’s work and on the Foundations, trusts and people appointed to take care of certain aspects of this work, are not new. Both during Osho’s lifetime and since his death there have been endless attempts to prevent Osho’s work from expanding, orchestrated by a wide range of forces, from upset individuals, to governments.
Lately, any legal actions against the Foundations (and other bodies like the inner circle) which Osho has asked to take care of the continued functioning of his work, are mostly instigated by “discontented Osho lovers” – people who profess to “love Osho” but who either seem to think they know better than Osho, or who have their own agenda.

1)       The European “Trademark” case – now decided in OIF’s favor.

The European Trademark Commission has now come to its decision: it has judged the application to overturn OIF’s Osho trademarks to be “without foundation” and has rejected it.

The ruling states, “The Cancellation Division considers that the request for a declaration of invalidity against the contested CTM [Community Trade Mark] is without basis and will be rejected for the reasons below.” The ruling concludes with: “Consequently, having regard to all the factors of the case, the Cancellation Division concludes that the request for invalidity [of the trademarks] must be rejected in its entirety.” (The full text of the ruling is given on http://osho.info/documents/eu-tm-ruling-june-2014.pdf. )

Some background:

This case was the attempt by Osho Lotus Commune Verein, Cologne, Germany (driven by Ramateertha of Osho Uta Institute) to deny OIF the right to protect Osho’s work by the use of “Osho” as a trademark.

In reality, the situation is simple: Since the early days of his work, in accordance with Osho’s wishes “Rajneesh” (one of Osho’s former names) was already established as a trademark around the world. The process of trademarking “Osho” began while Osho was still in the body, at his request of course, shortly after Osho chose “Osho” to brand his work. In July 1989, OIF’s lawyer was given the Power of Attorney for registering trademarks. In the middle of this legal and administrative change (“Rajneesh” to “Osho”), Osho left the body, and the trademark registrations for “Osho” were deposited and granted soon afterwards.

None of these “discontented Osho lovers” seem to have had any problems with the trademarks while Osho was alive, nor – if they did have any misgivings about Osho protecting his work in this way – did they have the courage to express their views to him. Even after the registration of trademarks for “Osho” rather than for “Rajneesh,” it took these people many, many years to start raising objections and to try and take the rights away from the Foundation under the guise that they should never have been established in the first place.

Maybe most revealing about the mindset behind the attack on the Osho trademark is an argument the applicant [Ramateertha/Osho Lotus Commune Verein] submitted in support of its position: “The intentions of Osho himself are irrelevant for the purposes of these proceedings.”

This mind-revealing argument may not be surprising in the historical context:

In 1985 Ramateertha himself was appointed to the board of OIF by Osho’s former secretary Sheela. His work with the Zurich foundation was short lived. It was abruptly terminated when he visited the house where Osho was staying in Uruguay, in spite of having been asked not to – putting the delicate safety of Osho himself and the negotiations for the continuation of his work in danger. When Osho learned that Ramateertha was a director of OIF, he directed his secretary Hasya to request his immediate resignation from that board, explaining to her that Ramateertha did not have the capacity to understand the priorities of his work, or its dimensions.

In any case, this attack on the Osho trademarks in Europe has failed.  We are pleased to let you know that the outcome of this long legal process is that OIF and the Osho centers will be able to continue to protect the quality and content of Osho’s methods as needed, through the use of these trademarks.

And now:

2)       A new (May 2014) legal attack, driven by the same people who started the Trademark case, now directly targets OIF’s board members, with wild accusations of mismanagement and misappropriation of funds. As a result of these allegations the board members, with decades in those functions, were suspended pending a hearing – and this order of suspension was passed without allowing the Foundation to even see the allegations.

Some background:

Yes, it is again Ramateertha and friends who are behind this most recent attack. A few weeks ago they submitted grave allegations against the OIF board members. In response the Swiss authorities took the step to suspend the entire board from functioning. They have appointed their own government administrator to function as the authorized caretaker of the Foundation during the time it will take the Swiss authorities to investigate the validity of these outrageous claims. This appointed caretaker has the responsibility to fulfill any of the legal responsibilities regarding the Foundation’s functioning, for this time.

Interestingly, in the “Trademark” case – as noted in the summary of arguments – the applicant [Ramateertha] had tried to hide his longstanding association with trademark holder, OIF. Not surprisingly, because during his own short time as a board member of the Foundation he had shared responsibility for looking after the trademarks. Also, for many years he acknowledged the Rajneesh and Osho trademarks in the Osho publications of his own Institute and related activities. This did not fit well with his sudden attack against the trademarks! During his time on the Foundation board he was also an administrator of Osho’s copyrights, having been a signatory on the transfer of copyrights from the USA to the Swiss Foundation – another fact he avoids mentioning, when it suits his purpose.

However, in this new case against the individual OIF board members, Ramateertha now features his status as a former board member of the Foundation as an empowering argument for starting this new action.

This new legal challenge is of course again a time-consuming and expensive obstacle to deal with, to say the least. We are happy to be able to let you know as a positive development, that  recent meetings with the Swiss authorities created a clear, shared understanding how to continue day-to-day operations of licensing and publishing of the Foundation, while they look into the claims. A corresponding broad Power of Attorney has been issued to guarantee that essential parts of the work, such as our relations with the publishers, can continue unharmed.

Meanwhile, we have been informed that two of the co-complainants with Ramateertha in this latest attack on OIF, Chidananda and Videh, have also in recent weeks attempted to apply legal pressure to try and take over the board of the largest Osho Center in Italy, Osho Miasto Institute and Meditation Center [Miasto] because the Miasto board would not support Chidananda and Videh’s moves against the OIF board in Switzerland. This after the OIF directors already spent months dealing with the lawyer these two “Osho lovers” had hired in order to challenge the copyright ownership of OIF. Their attempt against the Miasto board failed and Osho Miasto Institute continues to operate with the strong support of the people who have benefitted throughout the years of its existence.

To end with, we would like to stress that in spite of the on-going poisonous attacks by these and other “discontented Osho lovers,” the work of making Osho available goes on day and night around the world, including the contribution of the Osho Centers, translators, editors, facilitators, meditators and many more.

Preparing us for his departure and having established the inner circle in the year before he left the body, Osho explains [his words paraphrased here]: “Some of my people – whom you may not even know – will attack you with any means possible. Don’t be troubled. In fact, the source of these attacks is their anger towards me. They cannot express that anger because they will lose their friends, so they will attack the people I have appointed. It is always their ego’s anger towards me, making the attacks.” This Osho insight has been very valuable for us.

Thank you for your continuing understanding, your support, and for your many contributions to Osho’s work and vision.

Love,

The Inner Circle

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75 Responses to One-all in Ramateertha’s row with Osho International Foundation

  1. Shantam Prem says:

    If you lie in an articulate English, it is not lie. Look at the history of media blitz concerning weapons of mass destruction.
    There is a politician hidden in every being.

    • Arpana says:

      ”There is a politician hidden in every being.”

      That remark, Shantam, is as true of you as anyone.

      “Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot
      That it do singe yourself.”

      Duke of Norfolk, from “Henry VIII” (1.1.140), by William Shakespeare

  2. prem martyn says:

    They missed out the P.S. at the bottom of the letter…

    ‘You don’t have to be crazy to work here, but it helps’.

    (As my favourite guru, Shree Jim Jam Parmwetherspoon often reminds us through his august online semiotic work, ‘The Tittle-Tatler and Raunchy Ranch Prophylactiserer’).

  3. Parmartha says:

    Well, as they say in football, a well fought 1-1 draw from both sides! Clearly different arms of the Swiss bureaucracy are not in tandem on these things!
    I know that on the Trademark issue a lot of time, money, energy and work has already gone into trying to budge OIF’s trademark over many years. One wonders whether Ramateertha will actually want to continue the battle on this one ?

    On the other issue, it is even more wise for the triumphal responders to the earlier news to be circumspect, given this statement of June 24th from the Inner Circle:
    “We are happy to be able to let you know as a positive development, that recent meetings with the Swiss authorities created a clear, shared understanding how to continue day-to-day operations of licensing and publishing of the Foundation, WHILE THEY LOOK INTO THE CLAIMS. A corresponding broad Power of Attorney has been issued to guarantee that essential parts of the work, such as our relations with the publishers, can continue unharmed.”

  4. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Friends, what to say…

    I have been looking to find Swami Anand Anubodh´s contribution with the octopus prophetical pic (June 17th, at 2.31 pm), because a pic says sometimes more than many words.

    i wouldn´t have put this or that like Anubodh did, but his pic compiling gave a taste of humour to the many symptoms of much unresolved past, collectively as well as individually, as seen in the various roles played here.

    The living Essence in and of the Prajnaparamita Sutra reality is completely untouched, you cannot sell it, you cannot purchase it, you cannot legalize it, you cannot de-legalize it.
    And I remember the Master and the Sangha (and the invitation to live) in This.

    And I will not deny that I feel sometimes pain and shame and regret individually, as in a feeling testimony when beauty is dissected that way and I am part of it, if I want it – or not.
    What response-ability means in the latter situation, I don´t know.

    The Tibetans have clear concepts; for example, the guardian of the teaching of the Buddha, which is an energy and a symbol (often shows up as a fighter-guardian angel).

    Where there is no teaching as such, recognizable on the surface , it is difficult
    to hold on to such helpful concepts, yet helpful they are.

    For me this morning, the Prajnaparamita Sutra came up from insight, as a help to surrender into that, which is – on all levels.

    Love,

    Madhu

  5. prem martyn says:

    Swiss Dharmaceutical Jury in Lausanne Literal Litigation Shock.

    By our Roving Reporter Parmy Springerstein

    Switzerland, land of tidy recycle bins, neat parking and cuckoos popping out from unhinged corners and mantelpieces, scaring the living daylights out of the peace-loving populace. Yes, Switzerland, where a plastic bottle left on a bench is a civic crime, where civic crime is punishable by disapproval and gossip and where you run the risk of actually having full democratic access to efficient forms of very local representative government composed of autonomous cantons or regions etc. A humanist model of multi-opinion inclusivity, which developed from cheese-making artisanal survivalism into a precision banking and R&D paradise.

    Looking to the future, the burghers of this multi-race and until recently, a most immigrant-friendly, welcoming land ( I reckon I met more Serbs and Arabs and Cubans with Swiss visas than Swiss people ) is now the setting for tidying-up what messes religionists are tempted to make in the name of love and meditation. Perhaps the Swiss do not yet realise the dangers they are running. By exposing the judiciary to the concepts of ‘Master’ and ‘Work’ and ‘Legacy’ then this might well mean the Swiss will begin yearning for somewhere haven-like, peaceful, full of swimming pools and flash villas and permitted hugging zones, holding guru look-alike contests and bowing low to Prime Ministers…although given that the Swiss Parliament has a rotating chair-person in the role of representative delegate only of the Cantonal ministers and is appointed only for a year, then that idea might take a bit of hard-emmenthaler, chewing-over…as for the rich introverted peace and quiet…they maybe don’t need many tips on that…

    The Swiss, of course, have experience of these world-changing religious nutters and have had their own brand of apostate-ism in the Calvin brand, which caused many of the populace to become alpine-clinically-fixated, dog-poop-carrying analaholics. Which really brings us to the nub of the question…In a land where crossing the road away from traffic lights or zebra crossings causes mild panic and fine-fearing delirium amongst the indigenes and police citiZen representatives, should we be at all concerned that the outcome of this unilateralist salvationist tiff will lead to either more work for swimming pool attendants, or an increase in visa applications by those who have been spiritually oppressed by years of crap coming out of bathgown-wearing consnonsenseness merchants, who wouldn’t know a fun night out unless they were fulfilling some or other mission in their borrowed identity-filled lives which by definition seeks to interfere and define full-on real living as much as possible by the remaining books and the liturgical wisdom and methods contained?

    And yet, as a bunch of various reps for the self-administered wonderdrug Osho, they seek to prevent interference in their own or at best hold onto or conversely take hold of a patent in their own respective, appointed or self-appointed names. They, none of them either side, obviously can’t take the piss, without also running the risk of it blowing back in their faces and dumbly crying foul, when a strong wind blows it back. That’s why even they, despite years of this sort of low-level attrition training aka spirituality and love of the universe, find that crying foul to a ref is par for this whole course.

    My advice: enjoy the ride, cry foul as much as you like, and give it loads of welly…just like Osho did. And watch out for the risk of chronic analaholicalism…it’s infectious…in Switzerland.

  6. Shantam Prem says:

    All the involved parties were with the living master, master of the masters, and yet…

    Thanks, God, for showing to the world, it is not a pennyworth this Indian idea of having a living master. Maybe once it had its worth, its utility; but now disciples are cleverer, articulate and want to have business-class travel to the universe with a stolen credit card!

    • Anand Newman says:

      When the master ( Buddha) is alive, his presence takes care of everything. Buddham saranam gachami. When master is not there, it’s the commune which takes care of the seekers. Sangham saranam gachami.

      People who are caretakers of commune themselves are acting against it. It’s like the fence which is supposed to guard the garden itself is stealing the fruits and flowers.

      • Arpana says:

        Where is your proof?
        Grow up and stop repeating
        gossip.

      • Parmartha says:

        Newman:
        Responsibility is a funny thing. When you don’t have it it is so easy to throw stones. I just say this cos of nearly 70 years of life experience, both in situations of responsibility and lack of it, both in the Sannyas world and also the real world!

        In democratic politics it is so often the case that once a new party is in power they suddenly realise that when they have responsibility then it is a whole new ball game, and many things have to be taken care of and done diligently, and from the opposition benches much has been overlooked as to how difficult the job of governance is. It requires a whole range of qualities, and many of them are not about making speeches or doing publicity.

        The caretakers of Osho have worked diligently since the debacle of 1985, both whilst Osho was in the body and afterwards. Don’t underrate their stickability and also ability. Many of Osho’s obvious wishes have been fulfilled, for example that the “word” has got to “every nook and cranny of the known world”. The Resort, if you were to go with totally unblinkered eyes, like a child, has the perfume of Osho all over it, even many years after his death.
        I know you will not listen to the wisdom of age, but give it a go!

  7. prem martyn says:

    Parmartha,

    I utterly disagree about the definitive “tongue tip taste of Tao.”
    Much of the so-called atmosphere around the master which you here espouse and adhere to, was and is effete, manipulative crap, especially in the Ikea of Pune ashram, by people whose commitment to each other was as strong as toilet paper in the rain. If you really think that a bunch of dissociative nutters like Teertha, Poonam, Mr Flying Goose and the Harlem Shakeiversitistas all combine to write an epitaph in history, combined with my own perspective on them and other centres I have been in, tried to make noise with and shagged myself happily in, and in other orange places around the world, from Vancouver to Darwin, including Sofia, Rome, Miasto, Thailand, Cuba and Greece, then I can tell you here is one not very happy bunny and one who disagrees with the notional epitaph.

    The levels of betrayal and insincerity amongst arch-meditators and loving therapists, their acolytes and all those who have borrowed Osho’s name to sponsor their own are not mere blips…they are part and parcel of that experience of wanting to BE…as this blog so clearly demonstrates.

    Even your own, here self-admitted, patristic and well-intentioned sharing influence could not influence, even it had wanted to, the likes of certain mutual friends from a shared house from completely losing the plot and following a demented and violating bunch of cuckoos in southern England all those years ago, despite years of so called beneficial growth around Osho. The very nature of being pushed to one’s limits means people crack. Until and unless you see that muck in all its ugliness, of what fanatics do, then you will never be able to throw out the baby with the bath water. Which is absolutely necessary to ensure both accessibility to growth and responsibilty to the frankness and implications derived.

    You indulge this blog because it serves as a form of notional structural catharsis and reinvigoration fundamentally necessary and conversely completely often structurally missing in any of the models I have mentioned. Hence we get authoritarian models, however subtle, of Brians, Unclejis, ‘Prime Ministers I have loved’, and huge wrangling legal teams and expenses without an iota of ironic disengagement. Which is why I’ve posted this Rik Mayall and Ade Edmondson clip to you to demonstrate a kinder, more participatory language of absurdity:

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G_X_7TrcHGM

    After many, many, many experiences in the world of wanting and hopefully initiating change, love, sexual accessibilty, emotive intensity and non-stop dancing, plus a freed internal voice and its external expression, I miss the intensely personal and jovial repartee and vocabulary of the best times…but it is not the mainstream I miss, it was the oddball wackiness…which for me surfaced especially in a time of egalitarian responsibilty twenty years ago in KoHsuan after me, Jyoti, Anugito and our other friends drew a line between what was the world of sterile religion, authoritarian lineage and borrowed aspirational language with the ribaldry of playful, in-your-face responses that found joy and hilarity despite, not because of, a search for meaning. And that difference is a huge one because it can’t be sold or replicated, luckily.

    So…What do I mean by the Ikea ashram?
    Well, it’s like this, you go into any House of Windsor-Hanover-influenced-type interior and you’ll find that same white-washed sterility that tells you loud and clear…here there is the empty boat…the empty bedroom, the empty kitchen and the empty mind stripped of self. When and if you’re lucky, in your moments of satoriness, the effusive light dawns (it happens, don’t get me wrong, it does, otherwise ask for your money back) that Ikea-like sterility seems to be saying, “I told you so, now go forth and multiply and ignore the fact that you look like inmates from a mental asylum in white robes…just go forth…” However, much of the rest of the time it just says: “IKea ashram…bland, depressing and depersonalised”, imo.

    For example, the swimming pool in the picture cannot be used for lounging around, the garden benches are not for stretching out on, and loving reminders abound. Personally, over the three visits I made I found Pune progressively more and more, erm, how you say…ah yes…shit. A borrowed reality, but not one I would live in for all the tea in China, as they say. So I didn’t much after Pune 1.

    So…when I got hold of a paintbrush in Ko Hsuan everything in the corridors got a colourful, approving make-over. MEMORIES admittedly, long ago MEMORIES…
    I even wanted to make a large papier-mache moose’s head to hang over the internal entrance, like the artsy animals by the ponds. That would never have happened in the Hanover Windsor handbook of what spiritual intimacy looks like internally or externally when handed down from approved messengers of God himself. The thing is, we were all meant to obey the lingo, from the air hugging to the letting go. And what it appears you encourage is that there was and is no definitive way to unitary and unifying love and truths.

    Although by doing this online it can’t at all in any way deliver the full McCoy, so this reflective, extemporisation of another participatory, co-involved reality, remains mostly locked into its own virtual, private, behind-the-screen reality. Whilst the defining ones of the centres etc. go on repeating what Ikea was and ever shall be. If that’s your bag, that’s fair enough, but for me and others it was no remedy or model to espouse. So we carry on, elsewhere.

    I will now stop for a breather…because writing this stuff is so much more difficult than living it….

    TTFN

    • satyadeva says:

      “Hence we get authoritarian models, however subtle, of Brians, Unclejis, ‘Prime Ministers I have loved’, and huge wrangling legal teams and expenses without an iota of ironic disengagement. Which is why I’ve posted this Rik Mayall and Ade Edmondson clip to you to demonstrate a kinder, more participatory language of absurdity:

      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G_X_7TrcHGM

      Apart from the brief opening exchanges, Martyn, I don’t see the relevance of this clip to your ‘case’.
      (And I do love to be beside the seaside – er, I mean, we all like a bit of absurdity, don’t we?).

      Besides, apparently this wasn’t a spontaneous going off the script, they did exactly the same thing several times while touring this show. Which arguably perhaps undermines whatever you’re getting at, doesn’t it?

      • prem martyn says:

        SD,
        You can see it as you want,
        the meaning or semiotic relevance drains out of me as I write the thoughts down, as you read and while we reply. And if it undermines my drift iyo and that helps you think your thoughts then so be it…

        If that doesn’t help then let me know how I might be able to help…I might throw out some Father Ted…instead…

        Which might make it worse and even More undermined…Jeez this is hard work….

  8. Shantam Prem says:

    Truth of Osho Ashram lies somewhere in the middle.
    No groups, no therapists, Meditations and evening meeting of Osho White Robe Brotherhood.
    Then it is neither IKEA Feeling nor Windsor Castle, but a mystic´s hut in the middle of an industrial city.

    This was the USP. Somewhere it is still the same.

  9. lokesh says:

    Could someone please post the stage-by-stage instructions for the Nadabrahma meditation? Thanks.

    • prem martyn says:

      Lokesh ,
      I think it includes whistling in the second stage to an old favourite…

      (MOD: LINK LEFT OUT AS IRRELEVANT, MARTYN!)

      • prem martyn says:

        My posts are irrelevant!!! Irrelevant!!! IRREVERENT, YES…but never in all my born days have I ever been so assaulted by being assailed as IRRE…LE…I’m off to my solicitors immediately….

        (MOD: NOT THE WHOLE POST, MARTYN, JUST THE YOUTUBE SONG.

        PS: THE Rik Mayall clip IS AT YOUR EARLIER POST, 8.59am TODAY)

      • lokesh says:

        Och, Martyn, you are becoming predictable in your dotage. I knew you would not be able to resist it.

        • prem martyn says:

          Lokesh, yesterday’s post to you went like this…in film form…

          “You must remember this
          A kiss is just kiss
          A sigh is just a sigh

          The fun-da-mental things apply
          As Time goes by….”

          ( Time passing, sighing on the outbreath,and the combination of profound fun and gentle cognition…)
          Nadabrahma….

          The kiss is here in a Rumi poem I am reminded of:

          “Some Kiss We Want:
          There is some kiss we want with Our whole lives,
          The touch of Spirit on the body.
          Seawater Begs the pearl to break its shell.
          And the lily, how passionately It needs some wild darling!
          At Night, I open the window and ask the moon to come and press its Face against mine.
          Breathe into me.
          Close the language-door and Open the love-window.
          The moon Won’t use the door, only the window.”

          And the song video elliptically connects (it’s on youtube)
          ….the piano and the lovely singer who played that famous song from the H.Bogart and Lauren Bacall film, Casablanca…or the White House (shades of the original name of the Pune 1 office building).

          If we look, we find many things can be found…

          Nadabrahma…a lovely gulab jamun from the Master…enjoy

    • Dhanyam says:

      If you Google “Osho Nadabrahma Meditation” you should be able to find it.

  10. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Dear Lokesh,

    I

    You start with sitting comfortably and with a humming
    and maybe feeling that the humming gently, gently is felt in lower parts of the body too (movements, if they appear, are very, very gentle, hardly going outward).
    (30 minutes)

    II

    Staying seated,
    you form your hands palms upwards before your navel
    and start to move them in very, very slow motion to let each of your hands form a circle outwards, then returning to the navel
    and repeat that.
    (7.5 minutes)

    You turn around your hands, palms downwards, before your navel
    and start to move them in very, very slow motion to let each of your hands form a circle, this time in the opposite direction – they first go outwards, then both the sides meet in the middle and then meet by the navel again.
    (7.5 minutes)

    III

    Silent sitting for another 15 minutes.

    (There does exist very beautiful music for it all – where you can clearly recognise when the stages ( of giving and taking energy) switch.
    I guess it’s available up to today?

    Most probably you sold the old ‘Orange Book’?
    A tiny little paperback full of gold nuggets.

    Enjoy!

    Madhu

  11. Parmartha says:

    Martin, you missed somehow then and now.
    There was and is something there, and not because of, but in spite of all the ‘leaders’ you mention, and in spite of the elitism. If you didn’t feel it – fair enough. But knowing you a little, I think you did. And what held people? It wasn’t a con.

    Have you ever thought that you are a sensitive lad, maybe not helped by that probable early history in that school I pass every day in north London, and you seem to have got hurt rather badly in the ‘school’ of the Osho communes. But you could have left at any time, like some mutual acquaintances certainly did.

  12. Shantam Prem says:

    If you don´t like our products then just don´t buy.
    We want customers who are 100% satisfied.

    In this way, I see, not many people are anymore in the West with some Indian kind of names.

    So Prem Martyn, take sincere advice of editor- in-chief and simply become Martyn.

    Past is deleted.

    Cults are not industries where they recall the products in case of defects!

    • prem martyn says:

      Shantam, you can call me whatever you want, just be sure that when people say to you, “Don’t call us, we’ll call you”, they aren’t fleeing as they say it.

      If it makes you feel better, from today I’m changing not only identity but sex too…not a Mr anymore but a Missed.

  13. anand yogi says:

    Parmartha,
    Do not be so confident of a draw!
    The white man, as all who have knowledge of the western mind know, speaks with forked tongue!
    Watch as the Orange people come from the behind to inflict a severe thrashing and place a sharp and necessary Trishul in the backsides of the white-skinned baboon`s posterior!

    Meditate!
    Celebrate!
    Victory will certainly be ours!
    Yahoo!

    Nothing can stop the march of India and Nepal’s saffron tide!
    Especially those foreigners who have destroyed Osho’s vision and drunk alcohol in the holy Samadhi whilst even denying its existence!

    By God’s grace and thanks to the prayers of the true disciples, Osho’s work is expanding and due to Swami Arun’s brilliant statesmanship, we have acquired the support of the nationalist prime minister who is also an embodiment of Zorba the Buddha, who, as Arun says, is a great one who guides the masses with the strength of his willpower to a higher destiny!

    Things are moving fast:
    Already emblazoned on the gate of Arun’s commune, Tapoban, the words glisten:
    “Osho`s work makes free!”

    And many are hearing the call:
    “One India, Great india!”

    With great leaders at the forefront and many leaving their minds at the door as they hurl themselves at the feet of Arun, chanting,
    “One vision, One people, One leader!”.
    The vision of India that stretches back many thousand years into the Aryan past is rising again in blitzkrieg of consciousness expansion!

    Arun, with the welcome help of Prime Minister Modi is offering nothing less than enlightenment!
    The final solution!

    Hari Om!
    Yahoo!
    Osho!
    Sieg Heil!

  14. Krishnanada says:

    This very case was upheld in USPTO when Osho World and friends won the case. The same arguments apply here too. I wonder why the case quotes Klaus Steeg!

    • anand yogi says:

      Yes, Krishnanada.
      You speak the truth!
      It is indeed heartening to hear the voice of a close, committed and extremely devoted disciple of Arun as yourself, who has hurled himself at the feet of a true leader with willpower, and the benefits are there for all to see!

      Do not hold back!
      As Arun has said, these criminals must be punished!
      They must face their karma!
      And you, Krishnananda, along with the karmically and criminally untainted leader of our nation have been designated an important role in this Divine Leela!
      Play it well, bhai!

      And who is this “Klaus Steeg”?
      He sounds like a clichéd Nazi in some B-movie world war 2 film!
      He is probably another balding, pot-bellied, bearded joker wearing pink clothes and
      trying to be a guru!
      Ha!

      Love!
      Hari Om!
      Yahoo!

  15. Parmartha says:

    Actually, Mr Yogi, I couldn’t be bothered whether it is a draw, win or loss, or who wins! Therefore it is not a matter of whether I am “confident”.

    • anand yogi says:

      So, Parmartha, you are a disciple of Avatar Lemme Kilminster, who was also embodying the highest vision of Bharat?!

      “You win some, you lose some, it’s all the same to me!”
      Certainly the words of the highest Hindu wisdom!
      And, like N. Modi, definitely an embodiment of Zorba the Buddha!

      Hari Om!
      Yahoo!
      Osho!
      Ace of Spades!

  16. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    I wrote a response to you, Parmartha, half an hour ago -
    it disappeared into the void.

    Maybe into a space somewhat like Mr. Yogi´s fascist contributions, I presume.

    My question to you, Parmartha, is: how do you manage to keep your seemingly cool countenance?

    I didn´t manage so far, as in everyday life, terror like this is increasing and that which we call ‘world’ is really getting small in every dimension.

    Sincerely concerned about that -
    also in the Sannyas realms!

    Madhu

    (MOD: YOUR EARLIER POST DIDN’T ARRIVE, MADHU)

  17. Shantam Prem says:

    This whole legal and emotional mess in the name of Osho’s work is ironic and a leaf from Greek tragedy because till His last discourse series, Osho did not stop hammering Christianity and other religions and with the hope His work, His people will prove to be different.

    Few worship naked Mahavira, few covered the statue with the white linen; few disciples celebrate Osho´s birth and death days and for the main church, every day on the wheels is like every other day…

    ‘Those who live with the sword die with the sword’ is relevant in most of the great situations of life.

    It does not matter which advocate convinces the judge and the jury; loser will be truth which has been manipulated from all the sides.

    • satyadeva says:

      However, Shantam, you fail to realise three things:

      1/ Your opinion is just that, an opinion, ie not necessarily ‘right’ or appropriate – even though it’s you that’s creating, believing, holding and propagating it.

      2/ You have allowed yourself to be so totally obsessed, consumed by these views because you have no other ‘spiritual’ or otherwise fulfilling inner life (or even outer purpose).

      3/ You say:
      “This whole legal and emotional mess in the name of Osho’s work is ironic and a leaf from Greek tragedy because till His last discourse series, Osho did not stop hammering Christianity and other religions and with the hope His work, His people will prove to be different.”

      In significant ways, you yourself are not really a lot different from the ‘religious’ people Osho was criticising. And as such, you too continue to play a part in making truth the “loser” in this game.

      These three points about you have been obvious to me and others here for a very long time. And yes, they are ‘opinions’ too. But if you had the capacity to take a truly honest look at yourself – of which there’s been little evidence up to now – you would surely reach the same conclusions for points 2 and 3 (above), and perhaps even for point 1.

  18. Anthony Thompson says:

    Sorry to creep back to this forum…it has been a while…

    Still some interest is stirred around this saga.
    My very personal opinion is that the move from Osho de guru, the master, the person, to OSHO de product and vision is the smartest move ever seen in the history of spiritual movements!…Perhaps only comparable to Krishanamurti´s dissolution of the Order of the Star. Rarely have we seen a movement deprive itself of its icons and symbols, and transcend in an intelligent way what under no circumstances can be held once the master is dead: An alive spiritual movement….a religion is the only option left…as we have seen.

    It is my understanding that Osho´s way was the way it was while he was alive and it was not intended to continue once the old man was gone…and he is long gone, whether we like it or not…now devotion, if we like it so much, has to be directed to pieces of marble, clothing, chairs, pictures, the same way Indians have done it since the beginning of time…And in a way, rightfully, that is what they are demanding: their right to devotionally worship Osho.

    But nothing more than tearful hearts will come out of that. Awakening is waiting somewhere else, perhaps deep in meditation or with a new master…but, certainly not by kissing the Samadhi´s marble.

    Times have changed…Now, young people, unless their are of Nepalese or Indian decsent, do not resonate with worshiping dead gurus…it is a fact…Look at Arun´s meditation camps all over America: mostly Indians, or old, washed-up sannyasins.

    So that is the move…and how OIF wants to hold this new way…de-gurued….enforcing trademark and copyright…Well, copyright is understood, no way a publisher would publish a book that can be obtained for free on the internet, so that they had to get the Foundation to prosecute the free flowing words.

    Trademark, as a way of control, is THE tool to get down the indi-bindi, oranged-malaed, nostalgic sannyasins’ websites I supposse…

    Regarding banning individuals for petty reasons… it occurred all the way from the beginning…just nobody had the guts to object, back then, even people like Neelam and Keerti who complain about it, were instrumental in kicking out especially Indians from the commune all the time.
    So what will happen to this saga?…I await joyfully.

    Yours,

    Anthony Thompson

    • Parmartha says:

      Welcome back, Anthony! It has indeed been some years!

      A constructive and articulate take on the matter.
      Some of the things you point out are very pertinent. Whilst Osho was alive, quite a few, and as you say, Indian sannyasins, were banned from the ashram, so banning people is not new and Neelam and Keerti should be the first to know that.

      As for Arun’s camps. Yes, it is the same in the UK as in the USA. Mainly Indian and Nepalis who live in the UK, and very old sannyasins mistakenly looking to relive what they had in the seventies!
      But over time, even India and Nepal will not remain in this time warp – give it another 20 years…and the silicon democracy of the Bangalore imprint will be everywhere in the sub-continent.

      An adventurous sannyas without deification or its symbols is the way to go. And my feeling is that Osho did indeed ‘transmit’ this to his caretakers in his last years, maybe not so much in writing but in spirit.

    • Arpana says:

      The beginning of the end was when Bhagwan withdrew the mala and red clothes.

      Then further destruction of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh mala and red clothes sannyas followed the name-changing process, which culminated in him settling on the name Osho.

      The mala and red clothes sannyas of Bhagwan Shee Rajneesh continued for years after all that,
      but as it dies, and that is what is dying, this new sannyas of Osho is growing.

      One might argue the plain clothes sannyas of Osho is the successor to the red clothes and mala sannyas of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

      Jayesh and Amrito are being blamed for this, and as I’ve said/ you said, Osho made sure that would happen.

    • Kavita says:

      Anthony Thompson, seems you have appeared from the Beyond!

      “Still some interest is stirred around this saga.
      My very personal opinion is that the move from Osho de guru, the master, the person, to OSHO de product and vision is the smartest move ever seen in the history of spiritual movements!…Perhaps only comparable to Krishanamurti´s dissolution of the Order of the Star. Rarely have we seen a movement deprive itself of its icons and symbols, and transcend in an intelligent way what under no circumstances can be held once the master is dead: An alive spiritual movement…a religion is the only option left…as we have seen.”

      All I can say is, this revelation is quite multi-orgasmic. Sorry, couldn’t help myself!

    • Fresch says:

      How surprising for you to appear ( not “an old, washed-up sannyasin”?) writer, not- sannyasin “Anthony”.

      Parmartha, SD, Lokesh, Frankie and rest of people writing here are not exactly young. How do you people feel about being “old, washed-up sannyasins”? Or are you just old and not “washed-up”?

      • Fresch says:

        Anthony, perhaps you are not personally in touch with young people, except with your grandchildren. News for you: franchising, authoritative leadership is not popular among start-ups, hubs and creative people, and for sure not in companies with brands. They want to be independent, transparent; it’s more about open source and sharing, networking.

        The same experience I have with young people who meditate with me. The way you write about “brand” is totally old-fashioned. Everybody in ‘branding’ would laugh about it, I know because I also work with ‘brands’. But, of course, how would you know? How old are you?

      • lokesh says:

        I equate age with loss of flexibiity…you wanna watch out for those fixed ideas and attitudes.

  19. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Dear Anthony Thompson,

    You are not really “sorry”, are you?
    And could hardly be described as “creeping to the forum” (here)
    when you proudly presented as your overview (of a “saga”) – like with:
    “My very personal opinion is that the move from Osho de guru, the master, the person, to OSHO de product and vision is the smartest move ever seen in the history of spiritual movements!…Perhaps only compared to Krishanamurti´s dissolution of the Order of the Star. Rarely have we seen a movement deprive itself of its icons and symbols, and transcend in an intelligent way what under no circumstances can be held once the master is dead: An alive spiritual movement…a religion is the only option left…as we have seen….”

    From what ‘cloud seven’ you are overlooking, Mr. Thompson?

    And what are you “awaiting joyfully” from there?

    And what is your joy anyway?

    And what is joy? For YOU?

    My summary is that you are not loving people, but look upon happenings like a player of a schach game. (MOD: WHAT IS a schach game?)

    ‘Believing the impossible before breakfast’ would be for me, in this case, that the word ‘compassion’ becomes more than a word and gets into our veins,

    also in yours -

    Madhu

  20. prem martyn says:

    Parmartha,
    This ‘in the air’ or spirit thing to which you refer lays down the element of a generalised inclusive abstraction. To which we – me, you or anyone – can include themselves in without definition.

    It’s at the point of definition though that the spirit assumes difference. For purpose and motive.
    Keeping one’s slate clean is done through transparency and choice and consequences.
    When commnication failures combine to lassoo language, its inferences and values, it’s a hell of a minefield to traverse. Which is where gut feelings and emotion are used to concord or not with another.

    I’m reminded here of constructs we use such as family and marriage to establish sentimental identity, school and society to establish function and law, psychology and sociology to establish the vocabulary of participation and adherence and metaphysics and method to reveal love without objectification.

    The map is not the territory, but only willingness defines how far we travel and when and with whom. The lighter the baggage the more flexibility and response-ability.

    For me, it always was friends who shared the same eyes that made it possible. One particular ‘friend’ finally helped me to establish whether it was to be a journey or an investment. This common assumption of what a sannyassin did and was, was to be the test.

    You can guess the ferryman was waiting for me all along. And the friend turned out to be a gorgon. Both in the manner and the mores.

    I believe this has to happen to each of us, so that we may understand and love who we are, however attractive another is. Even if we give them the credibility of a mutual vision festooned with lights, this may not actually be the eventual truth of the situation. That’s when we have to extricate our singular love, from that which however alluring actually debases it. Sannyas is a great playground for this realisation to occur. indeed it is designed to provoke it. No-one else can define that process’s resolution though and even Osho was faced with it and its consequences.
    Though we all deal with it differently.

    Reminds me of that Fred Astaire number…”You say Tomayto, I say Tomato…” – and ‘calling it off’ means they (his friend ) stay close despite their differences…

    Some don’t want that.
    Some do.

  21. Shantam Prem says:

    Arpana or Parmartha, two senior sannyasins who could not make it to Pune 2 and further are becoming the spokespersons of present-day regime in Pune.

    I am trying to understand their psychology. One can bite and chew half-cooked information if teeth of devotion are intact.

    • Arpana says:

      Shantam,
      Those who run the ashram have an advantage over you against which you can never compete:

      They are not you.

      • Dhanyam says:

        A great discussion, but as Deep Throat advised the reporters in the Nixon administration, “Follow the money trail.” If you see what is happening with the money, then your point-of-view will change.

    • Parmartha says:

      I AM MUCH MORE WORRIED ABOUT THOSE WHO CUDDLE UP TO INDIAN NATIONALISTS TAKING OVER THE ASHRAM AND MAKING IT A TRADITIONAL ‘INDIAN’ TYPE OF SAMADHI VISITOR CENTRE. THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT WHAT OSHO WANTED.
      WHEN ALIVE HE ALWAYS HAD AN ‘INTERNATIONAL’ COMMUNE AROUND HIM.

    • Parmartha says:

      By the time of Pune 2, the gestalt had changed, Osho’s movement was not certainly just about those 16 acres in the posh suburb of an Indian city. You have never accepted, Shantam, I was ‘active’ and making a UK contribution in my own way during those years, and many have thanked me for it. The idea of ‘service’ seems to be a foreign notion to you. Perhaps because there is a certain selflessness in it.

      You, yourself, just saw Pune as a playing field where you could pick up European women -and wander around as a self-important “typist” for the Inner Circle. I don’t see you objecting then to your status within the circle…and presumably getting their praise. Now you endlessly condemn those who actually ran the Resort at that time, just as they do now. Why didn’t you ‘turn’ on them then?

      I am, by the way, not defending the ‘caretakers’ you attack so much, but they deserve a fair hearing, and not to be ‘monsterised’. Osho would never have had them around him so much in the flesh if they were what you intimate they are. Don’t you trust your Master?

      I am very concerned about what we have to replace them, if they were to suddenly retire. I think that would be a real disaster….

  22. Anthony Thompson says:

    Dear Fresch…I do not think young people are against or for brands…they just don´t care! It is the old sannyas community that it is interested in who owns who about Osho…whether I have the right to use the name of “my master” together with my “newly dicovered” ayahuasca path…so I want to use “Osho ayahuasca”…OIF say “no fucking way”…that is the issue…

    Young people just want not to be bothered…they do not even care about sannyas as such…no one is taking sannyas in the Resort nowadays…it just makes no sense to them…unless of course you are hanging out with one of the copycats like Brian-Rajneesh or Arun or the whole bunch of osho gurujis sprouting all over india…I mean, show me one old Indian sannyasin who´s got a commune, who is not enlightend nowadays…

    And Madhu…yes, I am looking from the fence…everybody knows I am a fence- sitter…informed, but a fence-sitter…as all reserchers are…a coward you could call it, when Osho was alive…today I can not help it…just a fence-sitter.

    Yours,
    Anthony

    By the way… whatever happenned to Frank? I liked that fellow.

    (MOD: Frank’s still around, Anthony, just check back one or two pages and a few other threads).

  23. Fresch says:

    Dear Anthony, where did you get the idea young people do not want to take sanyas? Can you give some example from somewhere? I actually wrote here (at SN) a month or two ago) about 2 young people from my country, who are in their twenties and were visiting the Resort this winter, who just took sannyas, and both are very active with meditations. Not making a fuss about it, just being involved.

    You must know, it’s a personal path. You go for it, or you do not.

  24. Anthony Thompson says:

    Well, from where? From personal experience. When I was with Osho in ’89, around 30-60 people took sannyas every Sunday; in 1999, around 20, every Sunday. Nowadays, in the sannyas celebrations peak season, 3 new people, the rest just old sannyasins who put their name to be celebrated…From where? From there!!

    So, as you see…it does not seem to be relevant on a broader scale…and indeed, it is a personal matter…more now than ever… that the middle men and women have been removed and you can choose your own name…or invent it if you like.

    And please, I do not mean to be offensive… because I do think this is geared towards a healthy, smart direction…the times of us versus them, or better said, you versus us, is gone…

    And again, I do not think it is about sannyas, but about how ashamed could you guys be of what came out of your movement. As a fence- sitter, I tell you, beside the all-pervasive dirty politics, what is happenning in Pune looks good…healthier than all the other copycats melancolic versions of the post-Osho sannyas.

    Yours,

    Anthony

    • Dhanyam says:

      Dear Anthony,
      I want to comment on your posting.
      When 30-60 people took sannyas in 1989, how many people were there in the Ashram? And in 1999, how many people were there? Now three people take sannyas in the peak season, and how many people are visiting the Resort?

      People still take sannyas from all over the world, but they just don’t go to the Resort.

      • Anthony Thompson says:

        You may be right…but the people who are exposed to the new way, in the Resort, inevitably lose interest in Sannyas, which is not a bad thing…as far as I am concerned…because it speaks wonderfully of any sort of organisation or movement which does not encourage membership, but in fact leaves it to the absolute decision of the individual.
        A movement which has burnt its symbols and traditions is the only movement worth having.

        So, cheers! Regarding the information about the number of people…I can tell you by the counts made in White Robe, if my memory does not fail me: 1989 – 5700 (the “ten thousand buddhas” were in fact just 5000); 1999 – around 3500; now – around 1500.

        Yours,

        Anthony

        • frank says:

          Yo, Tony!
          Whassup?
          You still sipping the Chilean red, chilling to the smoochie sounds of the rat pack an’ pulling the young(er) chicks with your “horizontal therapy paradigm”?

          Nice one!

          • Anthony Thompson says:

            Well, Frank, you´ve got me over-estimated…The rat pack, red chilling – so far so good. The other part – I am afraid aging is taking its toll…But I have got a nice house over the seaside…great sunsets…magnificent views…seagulls and stuff…

            Retirement is not all it’s been cracked up to be…

            Nice to hear from you though…I was asking about you.

            Yours,

            Anthony

  25. Dhanyam says:

    Just to add to the discussion, one of our bestsellers are malas to all the new sannyasins.

    You can Google ‘Osho Hollywood’ to see interest in Osho from one source.

  26. GreyOwl says:

    Ramateertha’s own response to this letter is below:

    Dear friends,

    On June 24th the Inner Circle [IC] sent out a letter to all the Osho Centres in the world commenting on the “Trademark” case in the European Union and the decision of the Swiss Government to dismiss the board of directors from Osho International Foundation Zurich and freeze the accounts of that institution.

    Besides the usual allegations about me, which are being repeated again and again, there are some really interesting twists and turns to be pointed out:

    First, suddenly, there is a Power of Attorney mentioned that was supposedly given to OIF’s lawyer in July 1989 for registering trademarks. Who gave whom a Power of Attorney? In the five years of litigation no such document has been provided to the court in Alicante [Spain]! It seems that OIF has a remarkable stock of documents available that provides “evidence” on demand…

    Then it says: “None of these ‘discontented Osho lovers’ seem to have had any problems with the trademarks while Osho was alive…”

    This is correct, because there was nothing to have trouble with: no trademarks for “educational services; yoga instruction; religious services; meditation services” had been filed. And no centre had been asked to sign a license agreement while Osho was alive. It was Sheela who had intended to create a franchise system!

    Apropos Sheela: In the letter the IC continues: In 1985 Ramateertha himself was appointed to the board of directors of OIF by Osho’s former secretary Sheela.

    Here the IC is wilfully and intentionally spreading a lie. In the attachment you find the minutes of a meeting held in Oregon on Nov 28th, 1985. It was the board of directors from Rajneesh Foundation International who appointed Swami Jayesh, me, and Ma Prem Geeta as the new directors of RFI! At that time Sheela was already indicted for the crimes she committed and may have already have been in jail. She had resigned her position in RFI before she left Oregon on September 14, 1985. Interestingly enough, Maria Kortenhost, then known as Ma Prem Arup and today known as Ma Garimo, was a member of the board of RFI and is a member today of the Inner Circle that is spreading this lie about me! ‒ Maybe loss of memory?

    The important question that needs to be asked is: Why does the Inner Circle need to publicly denounce me?

    They must be afraid of me and of what I am saying. If I was as much of an idiot as they are trying to depict me as, then why bother to contradict me at all? But they have to make me “wrong” so that their lies appear to be right.

    If OIF was so sure about the situation, why did they have to produce a “Last Will of Osho” that is obviously a fake, as four graphology experts have pointed out?

    The “witnesses” to that crude document are the same people who are saying that Osho wanted such a trademark and that Osho wanted me out of the board of OIF for reasons that are part of their propaganda and as fake as the so called “Last Will”.

    Some comments on the Decision of the Swiss Government to dismiss the board of OIF, about which the IC is misleading people:

    I do not think that the Swiss Government was sitting idle, waiting for the complaint of a “disgruntled” Mr. Doetsch, to swing into action!

    The facts brought forth in the complaint were so alarming and overwhelming that the Government saw the need to act promptly, in order to protect the Foundation from total destruction. The board members are involved in other companies that are doing business with the Foundation. This is illegal because there are bound to be conflicts of interest when they are taking care of their own companies and OIF at the same time.

    For example, on the http://www.osho.com website you find under corporate information: Osho Media International Ltd. doing business as Osho International. (There are a few more companies operating under that same name!) The company is registered in Ireland, and the owner of this company is “O International Digital Media Ltd,” a company registered in Hong Kong. The owner of this company, and therefore the beneficiary of all the websites income, is Michael Byrne, also known as Swami Jayesh. Here we have the president of OIF, owning a private company that is exploiting the rights of OIF.

    I think these issues and, for example, why OIF lost its non profit status, do need attention and it will be interesting to see what the findings of the Swiss government will be.

    I want to make one thing clear: I would be more than happy not have to dig into this kind of thing. My work is with the Uta Centre in Cologne and in working with people. Still, in the light of what has happened in Sheela’s time I cannot pretend not to be aware of them and just keep quiet.

    After the shock of seeing the decision of the Court in Alicante and looking at the implications of this verdict it is almost certain that we are going to appeal this judgement. For this we do need also your financial support. Find the info at: http://www.osho.de

    Cologne, 26th of June

    Ramateertha

  27. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Well, Anthony, you probably had more than a “tongue tip…of TAO”, to come to know that the SEER is the SEEN and vice versa.

    And that´s what I love about the so-called ‘oldies’ here, even if they sometimes freak out thoroughly (like Martyn and others).
    The space to freak out I take mostly in my (not posted) very private diary-notes – and in my very private retreats…

    The gap to the so-called ‘other’, like newcomers on this bumpy meditation road from ‘here to here’ is filled by life´s experience itself…

    Or not…

    Although the paradigm change of interdependent communication in terms of IT technology does in a challenging way sometimes prolong the effort to find out if someone just went data-phishing in the www to get a ‘life-score-identity which may not be at all connected with their own life-experience.

    And the latter are not cheap to have (not for free downloading, so to say).

    So lots of new ways of delusion have come along, to be got rid of, plus the danger to get lost in autistic attitudes towards life itself has to be confronted:
    from a “fence”, in the “fence” (be the “fence”), and beyond any “fence”.

    I will be enchanted if here, at this website, this Sannyas chat area, that what one could name a ‘generation- conflict’ can dissolve into fruitful exchange.

    Sunday morning Love: we ALL are invited – so-called old and so-called young.

    Madhu

  28. Parmartha says:

    The wider picture re all these disputes, both legal and otherwise, is essentially quite simply an egoistic one on all sides:
    It is basically, “Who is in Control? I am” (the present incumbents) or, “I would be better than anyone else” (those who want to be).

    But anyone who wants to be ‘in control’ is flawed. The flaws manifest in different ways and in different faces of control, but they represent an ‘unexamined’ inner life.

    The need to ‘examine’ one’s own life is the first call of a real sannyas. In fact, my own motto is:
    ‘Never control anyone, and never be controlled by anyone’. That gives one a real freedom.

  29. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    And yes, this morning, I say hello to you again especially, Fresch, reappearing after a short break -
    and with a smile I was reminded of one of your contributions (weeks? ago)…

    In this, you ‘distributed’ projects and tasks (devices?) for some of us – including me.
    Mine was to get involved with some of the ‘new media issues’.
    I am involved in that anyway, Fresch (like you yourself), but maybe in different roles.

    I have had to deal for some 15 years with intruders into my private life and private data in a way that puts old encounter groups into the shade of ancient anachronism; a very special challenge to be confronted with ‘blind dates’ with a double-binding character.
    And more than just sometimes serving retraumatising aims in a way foul players would ‘go for it’. (MOD: THIS ISN’T REALLY CLEAR, MADHU).

    I know that I am not the only one to be confronted like that, because technical progress in the IT lounges allows and supports such ‘happenings’.

    So, I have been more than just sceptical about the movie ‘HER’. My background has been such life-experiences for a long, long while and getting deep insights about my helplessness as well as about tendencies to be corrupted and uprooted and in emotional turmoil.

    And – very much ALONE in that, and by that I mean also abandoned by former ‘friends’ -
    my biological family also settled and is settling ‘old accounts’ of vengeance as well as greed and other ugly stuff
    because from their standpoint it is me who went far astray; and they don’t know a thing besides the yellow press bullshit, and they never wanted to.

    That they have in common with the majority, and that´s the way it is and maybe ever was.

    Yet there have been times when the ‘sangha’ (also in physically existing ways) has been balancing all that – not only in my ‘case’, and I would say that was a time when more of that remembrance (mastering meditation) existed in flesh and blood terms instead of virtual performances, which come along as anonymous and are as by-products open to any nuisance. That´s the nature of it and the challenge too.

    Such a whole bunch of very exhausting and challenging issues,
    so – you picked up rightly, Fresch, what was and is (anyway) happening in me – I would say, these ‘my’ issues are very, very ordinary and may be yours as well; just appearing in other forms…

    I am happy that you appear again here, and so much virtual ‘life’ buzzing in the birds and the bees and the flowers -

    Madhu

    P.S:
    Here it is film-festival time.
    I am going to watch in joy also all of the movies which are getting on stage for the KIDS. Today – a rainy day here – I will watch ‘Doctor Proctors Pupspulver’ and I am looking forward to many other pieces of film-makers’ art for old and young….

    MOD: MADHU, BETTER TO CONTACT PEOPLE PRIVATELY FOR THIS SORT OF OFF-TOPIC STUFF.

    • Fresch says:

      “I have had to deal for some 15 years with intruders into my private life and private data in a way that puts old encounter groups into the shade of ancient anachronism; a very special challenge to be confronted with ‘blind dates’ with a double-binding character.
And more than just sometimes serving retraumatising aims in a way foul players would ‘go for it’…may be yours as well; just appearing in other forms”

      I wonder what you mean by this. Personally, I do not have a reputation to be ruined, it’s ruined already. Even if there was a camera following me day and night, nothing that I am involved with would surprise my family or friends, also because I work in a creative field, I am allowed everything.

      I am sorry if somebody has been mean with you. However, I do not really understand your point here, but I wish all the strength. At the end of the day, people are not so interested what you did, they have their own stuff to think about.

  30. Parmartha says:

    Can someone help me?
    Wasn’t there a time in September, 1985, after Osho’s announcement that orange and malas were no more, that the malas were unavailable? Anyway, Osho was alive then, and if the case, then why is there so much interest in reviving them now? Maybe that is somehow cultish.

    Dhanyam gives (or sells?) malas from Viha, what is his source for them? Arun gives sannyas and a mala, does his outfit make their own?

    Shantam, did people wear malas around the Resort when you were there in the nineties?

    • Arpana says:

      “And today I would like to declare something immensely important, because I feel perhaps this helped Sheela and her people to exploit you. I don’t know whether tomorrow I will be here or not, so it is better to do it while I am here and make you free from any other possibility of such a fascist regime.

      That is, from today, you are free to use any colour of clothes. If you feel like using red clothes, that is up to you. And this message has to be sent all over the world to all the communes. It will be more beautiful to have all the colours. I had always dreamed of seeing you in all the colours of the rainbow.

      Today we claim the rainbow to be our colours.

      The second thing: you return your malas – unless you wish otherwise. That is your choice, but it is not a necessity anymore. You return your malas to President Hasya. But if you want to keep it, it is up to you.
      The third thing: from now onwards, anybody who wants initiation into Sannyas will not be given a mala and will not be told to change to red clothes — so we can take over the world more easily!”

      Osho.
      From Bondage to Freedom
      Chapter #12
      Chapter title: Today we claim the rainbow
      26 September 1985 am in Rajneeshmandir

      http://txs.io/GnT

  31. Anthony Thompson says:

    I can help you with this, sir, as I was around at that time. People were given a mala at the initiation ceremony, but were advised to use it at home and only in meditation. So, sometimes you saw new sannyasins with their malas on…as if to show: look, I am a sannyasin now!!

    But old sannyasins never used malas, and the new ones soon just used them under their robes, for a while, and then gone.

    Look at the videos from Osho´s discourses around ’88, ’89, no one is using a mala.

    Yours,

    Anthony

  32. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    I also appreciate, very much so, that Anthony has appeared the way he is appearing, bringing some soberness into virtual waves….

  33. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    Yes, Fresch,

    “At the end of the day, people are not so interested what you did, they have their own stuff to think about.”

    Agreed, but just be aware of how it’s going here at this website – not to mention social games being played somewhere else.

    If all would happen the idealistic ways you presume, world would indeed be very quiet – also on this website.

    I didn´t speak of reputation – I did speak of people who are mobbing intentionally.

    Nice that you are not harassed that way – and so don´t know how that feels.

    So – leave it like that.

    Madhu

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