I just came across Osho´s provocative words below… And I am asking anyone with long experience of Osho and Osho´s ashram/commune, (such as many of the contributors to Sannyasnews), whether Osho is just here “the speaker”, as is often said speaking very well, but contrary wise on all manner of subjects to take his disciples beyond their egos – and sometimes with the tongue very much in the cheek? Or when He pronounces on such subjects, can he be said in the normal sense to be standing behind his words??
… Shantam
Osho: Premarital and Extramarital Relationships
Man is by nature polygamous. Monogamy is enforced on him. To satisfy his polygamous nature, man created prostitutes. Prostitution and Private Property are by-products of Marriage and Family. And this ugly institution of prostitution and possessing private properties will not disappear from the world unless marriage disappears.
Most of the marital problems arise because premarital and extramarital sex is denied. In a better human society premarital and extramarital sex should be appreciated.
Unless a man or a woman has lived in many pre-marital relationships there is no possibility of choosing a right partner. This is such a simple phenomenal! Unless you have experienced many women and men in your life, how can you choose who is going to be the right person to live with?
I am not against extra-marital relationships. Extra-marital relationships help marriage, they don’t destroy it. The people who are against them are really teaching you possessiveness in an indirect way. When I say I am not against extra-marital relationships I am teaching you non-possessiveness.
Extra-marital relationships are very significant, immensely helpful to psychological growth and maturity. In the new world, to which I have dedicated my whole life, there should be no marriage — only lovers. And as long as they are pleased to be together, they can be together; and the moment they feel that they have been together too long, a little change will be good. All the psychologists are agreed on one point: couples who love each other should have a few love affairs once in a while. Those love affairs will renew their relationship, will refresh it. You will start seeing beauty and a greater intimacy again in your old lover. Intimacy is far more fulfilling than any sexual relationship can ever be.
If one allows nature without any inhibitions to take its own course, one transcends biology, body, mind, without any effort and can taste the ultimate bliss which is not dependent on your biology, body or mind. But we are full of inhibitions. If you are repressive, then you cannot transcend biological pulls naturally, without any effort. So, the first thing to be remembered is that nature is right.
To transform sexual energy into spirituality is my basic approach.
1. The words of Osho are there to interest the spiritual mind that wants deep, clever, funny and intelligent words that try to answer our questions. 2. Those words are there for you only to make something out of it, feel touched by them in any way needed just for you 3. Those words go even deeper just as much as you want to let them sink … 4. Even deeper: Words spoken by any master don’t answer any of your real questions and have nothing to do with your interpretation at all … 5. Words are there only to sepaarte one silent space from the other 6. Words and silence come from one source, and all is included 7. Which words ?
Which words….? these words helped me whilst I was on the way to the trick cyclist this morning…. Veeetommm sssounds like you have the pointsss of sssannyyass sssorteddd
ssss’marveloussssss
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
Written in the true spirit of conundrum. A paradoxical, insoluble, or difficult problem; a dilemma:
Doctor Who ?
hey,just a minute.
What about lokesh`s lengthy and well-written post on this thread?
talking about “just a minute”,
i especially liked the bit about the quickies with the lubed-up disciples..
that was good.
Lube,Life, Laughing gas…
those were the days…
and the old sannyas swans logo.
i loved that too….
http://www.dking-gallery.com/store/HEAD_70FlyUnited.html
thats funny.
not only has my legendary organ wilted after years of doing what it wilt….
now me brain`s going a bit custardy….
i dont remember writing that last post.
oh well,acceptance is the thing…
sunrise doesnt last all morning
a cloudburst doesnt last all day
all things must pass away….
Shantam, there is a gulf of difference between his talk and your walk.
What happened in sannyas is that no-one had a clue and I mean no-one including yours truly, about how to handle not only one’s own genie but those of your own partners as they appeared out of the bottle…..
that takes living….
and osho’s words were given out by entranced priests who created a monotheistic approach of approved language and the aspired lightly consonanted, spiritual , gentle ever so gentle, speech intoned behaviour …..the talk part…mimicking osho’s energy..understandable…. but utterly unchallenged because we hadn’t a clue how to do it….
hence we now relievingly have ; Sannyas -looking back if i knew then what i now know -News , so as to print thoughts with …..as a potential way of challenging the unchallenged … in absentia.
when it comes to knowing that your love is plenty good enough without ascribing it some venerational justification through man with beard, then you get to live what he talks about… but if you try to borrow his followers for experimentation and worse they try to borrow you without having any of your self sufficient parameters or insights for what is and isn’t your love then you’ll keep being prey to these abusers and manipulators who similar to paedophiles, look for their victims in religious institutions…..and we are all potentially made of that stupidity…
our mistake was to try shortcutting our own precious love via that of someone else , even a master, because we were afraid of having to live the long way round and finding the same mess of society, as a gift present instead.
But if you trust your love and sex and libido then your love will be plenty good enough ..with all its twists and turns…and you’ll be able to stand tall behind it and explain your motives without collective behaviour references or absolutes……
sannyas failure was that it produces clones….aspirational abusive clones with all the nasty ready made quotes to fuck your head with first…..and get away with shit… ethical shit with a durex halo…..
I agree for the most part with what Osho says in the above. I agree with it because I’ve lived it and he is right… up to a point.
Osho is a master. Okay. Master of what exactly in this context? Having lived what Osho describes in the above I conclude that he is not actually talking from experience. Once upon a time what Osho is describing was quite radical, especially in a country like India. We only need to look at this current abominable rape case in Delhi for a reflection of the repressed Indian psyche. Osho might see prostitution as an ugly institution, but it is just such an institution that can help sexully repressed men. This is unfortunate but true. The world is not a fair place. Being a prostitute is a strange profession, even though it is one of the oldest professions still in existence. I’ve always found it remarkable, when walking through Amsterdam’s Red Light district, that if a guy feels like it he can pay a woman 50 euros to have sex for 15 minutes.(some of them are really quite attractive) You have to hand it to the Dutch when it comes to giving people what they want…if they are willing to pay for it. I am, of course, aware of the darker sides of prostitution but I still say thanks to the hookers for providing a much needed social service. Thanks to the whores men’s sexual urges are to a large extent satisfied and it helps stop men raping women. The legal prostitutes should be honoured for the work they do. I’ve had a couple of girlfriends who worked in the prostitution business. One was damaged goods and the other quite an enlightened woman.
Osho states, ‘All the psychologists are agreed on one point: couples who love each other should have a few love affairs once in a while.’
What a load of nonsense. ‘All the psychologists’, you have to hand it to the old boy when it comes to streching the facts to the point of unbelievable when needed to backup one of his notions. I think that is a lie. It must be. I’ve lived-out the open relationship scenario, and it is only due to the fact that I enjoy an excellent and mature relationship with my wife that our relationship survived having love affairs with other partners. I’ve seen many relationships try the ‘once in a while’ number and nine times out of ten it signals the end of the relationship and that does not mean the couple did not love each other…they often did, but were not psychologically equipped to deal with the emotions and complexities encountered in open sexual realationships, or else they found someone they were more strongely attracted to.
Looking back on the seventies with Osho it is interesting to note that, in darshan, relationships were what sannyasins most often wanted to speak to Osho about..not God, enlightenment, cosmic consciousness or witnessing. Osho did a brilliant job. I don’t believe he actually practised what he preached in his private life but 95% of the time he gave excellent relationship advice.
I think a good example of what I am driving at is Osho’s whole multiple orgasms for women number. Yes, I agree with what he said about one woman (sexually liberated) being more than enough for any man. I reached sexually maturity in Poona thanks to my multiple partners and all I learned and unlearned from them. A lot of gratitude to all those wonderful woman who helped me along the way and Osho for creating such an amazing environment to make it happen in. Then it comes out that Osho is a one-minute-quickie man who likes the chicks lubed up so he does not have to bother with foreplay. A major contradiction in what he taught there for a start. He was beyond all that? Gimme a break! Osho lived out the vast majority of Indian men’s wildest dreams. Indian men being notoriously bad in bed. A generalism I know, but there can’t be so much smoke without there being a huge fire. It is therefore I now see that Osho was, on certain levels, a complete hypocrite, who rather than practicing what he preached did quite the opposite. I think it is about time that sannyasins who still believe Osho was an expert and master on everything under the sun woke up to the fact that he most definitely was not, as is the case when he talks about having sexual partners on the side of your steady relationship. If he was the existenialist he claimed to be what experience was he speaking from? Past lives? Because he certainly did not have that experience in this life. Vivek was not exactly up for grabs and I don’t believe it was because Osho had a magic wand.
So, where does that leave us? Osho gave good advice on relationships. He gave insightful talks on the subject of sex and its fundamental importance in human relationships. He helped people free themselves up and encounter the sexual side of their life. I’d say that he certainly helped people find a way to enjoy a mature sexual relationship as a result of participating in his social/spiritual experiment. You have to get into things if you want to get out of them and then break on through to the other side and he sure didn’t mind giving a wee push in that direction. The other side of the coin is that he based a lot of what he talked about, when covering this topic for sure, upon what he read at the time, usually cutting edge, verging on the radical. At this he was exceptionally good; a sponge absorbing other’s ideas, distilling them and in the end producing his unique sythesis. The problem is that in using others ideas he did not actually know existentially what he was talking about at times, for had he he would not have got behind some of the ideas that he did. Why not? Because in the end some of those ideas were harmful.
If anyone comes to me asking about opening up their relationship by experimenting with other partners I always reccommend that they think deeply before tackling that slippy slope. I have met couples who have open realationships. Some of them last for a while but not in the long run. The ones that do are rare. If you want a lasting relationship best work out your craving for fresh carnal territory by enjoying it until you tire of it…some never do. I find that having a lasting relationship with another human being is one of life’s most spectacular adventures. I feel blessed and it is in part thanks to Osho that I arrived here. I also feel blessed that I no lomger experience the need for an authoratarian figure in my life, someone who knows what’s best for me and all that that entails, including having to live out the repurcussions of listening to bad advice from a so-called expert.
on these issues there is so much to say and yet so little point in so doing , when despite SN’s and contributors’ best intentions and that of reasoned accessible re-evaluations of all things Osh, we don’t know either who or how many of our readership is.. a bit like having 1300 friends on facebook… yeah and ? There’s enough material here for good cabaret or theatre to get people motivated and thinking beyond the confines of the hogwash peddled by oshonews and all the gazillions of unabsurd, unparadoxical, linear, obligational ,sannyas-gullible websites…. however with the limitations of a ghost audience it appears that a true spirit of literal unapologetic enquiry seems a bit like erm… pissing in the wind…..or having a nutcase soapbox in hyde park’s speakers corner…sorry to put a dampener on all things, chuddy style…
still perhaps one does whatever one can…eh..? where’s my soapbox…
Yes, I hear what you are saying. Then again, the true yogi looks not to the fruits of his/her actions. I enjoy writing just for the sake of it and I reckon that there are quite a few silent readers visiting SN….like maybe two or three.
just like the oldtime catholics who had a copy of “playboy” hidden in their bibles….
those holy sannyasins just love having a naughty peek at the naked truth on jackassnews whilst on the way to osho news to get their dose of syrup…!!
I’l bet there is bromide in the syrup.
well,i would simplify it a bit and say:
“do what thou wilt”
thats what we did.
mind you,these days,what we all did it with is pretty much completely wilted.
http://www.docsonline.tv/Archives/description.php?doc=85
Story
Child of the Commune” is a personal story that centres around a damaged mother-daughter relationship and the teachings of the Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, also known as Osho. As a six-year old girl, director Perizonius joined the Baghwan commune because her mother had become a follower of the Indian guru. Perizonius was given the Indian name Ma Prem Chandra (moon of love) and grew up as a commune child. However, at the age of 14, after some mishap within the commune, both mother and daughter leave the cult. What has happened?
prem martyn says:
>> “Child of the Commune” is a personal story that centres around a damaged mother-daughter relationship and the teachings of the Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, also known as Osho …
The communes were not good places for children. Children need stability and the communes were environments of constant change both psychologically and in relationships. Osho (and dare I say, most sannyasins) didn’t want children around but the single mums would drag them around from pillar to post and nobody had the guts to tell them to take their brats and eff-off. Would you take your child to an orgy? Would you take your child to the commune of the most dangerous man on earth? But people did and we managed as best we could. One would have had to be an exceptional child to survive psychologically intact from the madness.
I don’t think ppl below the age of 18 should be exposed to Osho. You need a mind before you can drop it. Tell them to read Dostoevsky.
The link above appears to have been removed, so that unlike last year, the film is not watchable online…shame, as it covered a bit of medina too in uk..anyway found this other link for you…which has the situation again from a grown up kids point of view
http://www.shant.eu/osho_commune_children.htm
for aeons,enlightened guys preached that sex should be avoided as much as possible.
then enlightened guys came along and preached to have as much as possible.
look,i dont usually use bad language but imv
its time to tell all those wiseguys,of whatever persuasion to go and fuck themselves(which is probably what most of them were doing anyway)
and work it out for yourself…..
frank says:
>>mind you,these days,what we all did it with is pretty much completely wilted.
I don’t think so. It has all become part of ‘your experience’ and also how it affected the environment. Young ppl today are for more sexually liberated than we ever was, and that is the result of our actions. Perhaps I am overestimating, but the contribution shouldn’t be underestimated either.
frank says:
>> for aeons, enlightened guys preached that sex should be avoided as much as possible.
then enlightened guys came along and preached to have as much as possible.
Basically, if you haven’t been fucking, start fucking … and if you have been fucking a lot, slow down a bit or even stop for a while. When ppl seek advice it means they have been doing it wrong so just tell them to do something different.
From experience I have found serial monogamy to be the best model for me (and the ppl I have been with, I hope).
A new monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He notices, however, that they are copying copies, not the original books. So, the new monk goes to the head monk to ask him about this. He points out that if there were an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies.
The head monk says “We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son.” So, he goes down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original.
Hours later, nobody has seen him. So, one of the monks goes downstairs to look for him. He hears a sobbing coming from the back of the cellar, and finds the old monk leaning over one of the original books and crying. He asks what’s wrong. “The word is ‘celebrate’,” says the old monk.
“serial monotony” eh?
yes,i can see that.
its an alternative to holy deadlock with the awful wedded wife,i suppose…
frank says:
“serial monotony” eh?
yes,i can see that.
its an alternative to holy deadlock with the awful wedded wife,i suppose…
You have a way of putting things that make me want to go in the other room and blow my brains out. Back in the day I used to say that one can do the same old things with different women or different things with the same woman. Same old bollocks. I’ve been by myself for the last 6 or so years and it’s been great. Pity tho because there are far more young beauties who are into old guys than there were older chicks who were into young guys when I was young. Well, fuck ‘em (or not, in this case).
VT.you are right about the old guys and young girls…
i find that no matter how wrinkly i get, the young chicks these days are gagging for it,and just cant resist me in my string vest,tracksuit,dyed hair, turbo-charged wheelchair,and a meds box stuffed full of alco-pops,pound coins,fags,lipsrick and viagra…
i`ve never had it so good!
frank the swans united…very nice..
in truth the first two white swans sent to Knobwash from the west to Pune Thunderbirds headquarters were so tightly wrapped in bubble wrap that they died en route, so they ordered another two to stick in a bath tub sized ‘pond’ with their wings sawed through to prevent flying, fed by nutcase psycho Dolano,.. so, mukta the venizelos greek prime minister’s daughter and osho housekeeper defended this by saying do you know better than your master.. also commune code for’ it was her idea, so don’t push it sunshine….’
apparently according to unbelievable gossip told me by someone who really knew nothing, Knobwash upset mukta by opting to bed her daughter instead of aforementioned ancient greek swanbaglady..
.lub lub lub… all you need is lub…la la laaaaaa
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/261459_10151328319132069_305316459_n.jpg
Guess everybody here knows Osho’s opinion according marriage.
Marriage is an installed Archetype up on Humans Psychic, a column of a violent society just an institution what controls by marriage peoples Freedom in different ways through enforced circumstances. I would guess that 95 % of the Archetype columns are caused in violence, changed by lie into a virtue act.
As perhaps the cross thing in real perhaps nothing than the symbol of sick rapping mind of so called Leaders and their Order of destroying Humanities real radiation, for the welfare of their narcissism.
To me, the acme of narcissism is Aleister Crowley, absolute selfish and egoistic. The spiritual result of a combination of a claimed spiritual egolessness in Sannyas and the most selfish esoteric Ideas of Crowley together makes perhaps neo Sannyas, heavy duty. Do we still have to decide, didn’t we?
in the name of sanyas & breaking conditionings , many of us have done what is / was not otherwise possible , in mostly all spheres of life, relationships being the most explored .
& a yes to franks :
well,i would simplify it a bit and say:
“do what thou wilt”
thats what we did.
mind you,these days,what we all did it with is pretty much completely wilted.
oh dear….
now,my double-entendre carry-on-up-the-chakras puns are now being quoted as the ultimate wisdom…
i`m going to have to change my name to benny hill baba……
benny hill not my kinda baba , mel baba it is !
http://youtu.be/VA1sx-vyWVk
We have just enjoyed the birth of the Christ-light into the world via unprotected miraculous sex …but not all of us have the same image or impression of Christ or of that other ineffable being, Osho….if anyone has posted the restored image of Christ, seen here below, as their Xmas card, then I can only say perhaps it’s time we had photos of Osho, to send to our friends year after year with a sign underneath
sponsored by Durex….
just to remind you what true images of true faith, restored, can do for people… here’s one I made earlier….
jeeeesssusss h christ….
http://news.yahoo.com/painting-christ-disfigured-spanish-town-131933840.html
In Zen series ( I think) Osho talked about Communists in Russia trying to eliminate the marriage system with force but they did not succeed. So world is not ready yet to dump that ugly system. And at the moment there is no alternate system available. So what best should happen is that couples should atleast mature enough to give freedom to each other. With mutual understanding and trust, they can try all sorts of things that ones body and mind demands.
But couples very rarely want to do such a thing, Prem. And if they do, then there’s probably not much love there anyway, so pointless calling themselves “a couple”!
Isn’t the problem that people very often get married far too early?
(Btw, I’ll bet a pound to a penny that you’re a man. Such a set-up would suit men just fine, wouldn’t it?!).
guys who cant get it together to enjoy a healthy relationship pontificating about the ugliness of marriage….?
people with no kids preaching about child care….?
tantric masters going on about tantra and lubing into their pants in 30 seconds…..?
more ex-cathedra pronouncements by squawking osho parrots ?
just another day in the jackass office…..
“guys who cant get it together to enjoy a healthy relationship pontificating about the ugliness of marriage….?”
To whom, exactly, are you referring, Mr Frank?
SD.
oh well,you know,just doing a bit of fishing..
throw the old line out and see what bites..
its very relaxing…
quite meditative,too….
Bit of a bore when you don’t catch anything though, isn’t it?
Still, I suppose at your age….
be patient,be patient…….
I got married for the first time at the tender age of 18. Yes, it was too early.
Satyadeva, Yes, I am a man and I get your point.
Well, but I heard that extra marital relationships, wife swapping sort of things are happening more in India (especially in the cities like Bombay) which are branded as conservative societies. Indians watch the porn movies made in west and they think all the west is like that.
I also heard of wife swapping incidents, where wife liked the other guy more and dumped the husband. So it results in a split of two couples not one.
But over all I agree with you that its the male who wants more not the female. I think the whole marriage system is surviving because of women.
Prem says:
… But over all I agree with you that its the male who wants more not the female. I think the whole marriage system is surviving because of women.
I am going to be honest and say that I don’t know the answer as to why there appears to be a sexual imbalance in the genders. The women need a reason and all men need is a place, joke. It is an impossible subject to tackle because we have been covering our genitals since before we have records … so, in a way, we are operating without a blue-print. Osho’s experiments were, ‘interesting’ (to say the least), but the results are inconclusive and cannot be relied upon to offer any framework that can worked with. I remember recently reading Osho talking about humans not having ratting seasons … also the subject of beard-removal was tangled in-there somewhere. One good thing about being a sannyasin is that going with a non-sannyasin is like having a pet.
It is Osho´s grace that in his ashram many Indians came in contact with western women. I don´t think any such women ever heard from their mothers, ” Sweet heart, the man of your choice is quite nice but what he does for living? Does he has some bank balance or property?
It is the innocence of western heart that in general, it knows not how to make deals in the name of love.
Quite often, my heart feels the pang of graitude for all those women(few Indian girls also dared to break the stero type), who made Osho´s garden one of its kind.
shantam prem says:
> It is Osho´s grace that in his ashram many Indians came in contact with western women.
As I have never been to India so my experience of all things Osho has been in the West – and mainly in UK, US, and Western Europe. In my recent wanderings I have been bumping into as many Indian sannyasins as western ones which made me realise that ‘in them days’ there were very few Indians in the mix … given that Osho was Indian, and especially as there has always been a very large Indian community in the UK. I know about Osho saying that Sheela was abused by an Indian uncle and that was why she was excluding Indians from the Ranch, but even before Sheela, the Indian numbers were limited in the Ashram and mainly because of the behaviour of the Indian chaps towards the white chicks.
Did Osho Try Behaving Like A White’s Only Guru At Oregon? (2008)
http://proaudience.com/2008/04/did-osho-try-behaving-like-a-whites-only-guru-at-oregon/
I may go as far as to say that for a while Osho might have even ‘thought’ that he was a white man (hehehe). Anyway that was then and this is now. Since then the whole profile of India has risen on the world stage and the white monopoly is being challenged a little, but no matter what, we will always have the white goddesses.
oh yes,it was oshos grace that i came into contact with the western women whose very presence was raising my aspirations like a cobra in the chuddies responding to snake-charmer `strumpet.
it is god`s grace and blessing for me that i dont think any of them have heard from their mothers say: “keep clear o` them darkies,they`re only after one thing..”
the innocence of their hearts and the absence of their minds,thinkng the love was the free…
quite often i feel pinngg of gratitude in the chuddies when i think of those pink breasts swinging like the ripe mangoes in mango season and their limbs sweating like trees in mangrove swamp in monsoon and perfect buttocks firm like new-season guavas from the bangalore and…… (cut…ed)
Back in the seventies, the ashram was predominately populated by Westerners. On celebration days the place was thronged by Indian sannyasins from all over the subcontinent. I enjoyed that very much. There were many, what I would describe as, very evolved Indian sannyasins. Beautiful people who were always up for a laugh. It gives credit to Osho that during that time so many wonderful people were attracted to him.
On reflection I see that Osho fulfilled the perfect image of the sage. Back then he represented our heart’s longing for something or someone who shone above the mud of human existence. It was a fantastic dream. All dreams must end one day and that one certainly did.
It is laughable that fools like Shantam are still peddling the old bunkum like, and I quote, ‘It is Osho´s grace that in his ashram many Indians came in contact with western women.’ Osho’s grace my Scottish arse. The old boy knew how to manipulate people and the greatest tool of all is sex. Politicians use it to the max for example. Yes, laughable were it not so tragic. A sad reflection of Shantam, for the early Indian sannyasins were there for love not a piece of western ass.
To conclude, and all this in the name of spirituallity. Well, Osho always enjoyed a good joke, especially when it was on your stupidity and blind ignorance.
I must say that I enjoy the “new Indian” influx into the mix. There is a certain innocence and arrogance to it.
Not satisfied with the answers society gave and behave with us, why many went for a Master. But Master does not fulfill expectations of making people happier, because truth must be so glorious. The dirt it does first has to be cleaned up. Many went back into arms of society for marriage and security… freewill decides if moving with the given or trying something what perhaps is closer to truth. In the beginning Sannyasins 101 % became afraid than went back into old conditionings. Maybe they searched – security, as marriage after Osho’s leaving proofs. It was perhaps not seek for truth, more a primary rebellion against the parents. After a few years they came to old sense, went back into the arms of society for security reasons.
I felt betrayed had the feeling those Sannyasins betrayed Osho and all other Sannyasins whom still wanted to go further, together… maybe it weakened the movement as I often thought maybe not. Giving Osho the fault for falling back into society by blaming him, because deep inside it hurts that he didn’t gave answers as expected if there was a question, not his mistake to me. Really hard to understand for me is. Going back into the old of we know it is hostile against us, giving up, blaming the try… we just maybe have lost against a sick society, not enough energy, divided.
What exactly do you mean, Preetam, by “falling back into society”? What else would you suggest they do? What about you yourself, what are you up to?
Isn’t the idea to be ‘in the world, but not of it’? That doesn’t have to depend on creating any sort of ‘alternative’ society, commune, whatever, it’s simply about a certain quality of consciousness, isn’t it?
Satyadeva, at that time I felt like this. A decision back into the old conditioning, Osho not taking serious, before 20 years. Now I see this issue more liberal. Perhaps not as you, “being in this but not off this world”, I accept others Freedom going back seeking safety in old Archetypes.
Where Preetam, apart from your imagination was there a commune where everybody was friends with each other’s libidos under the bannered pressure of ‘letting go of conditioning ?’ That phrase coupled with ‘meditation is good for you’ equals , in a rough estimate, a bunch of wannabes complete with all the sinister stupidities under the sun. The more you think someone else is going to systematically organise you and your context or situation to profoundly, ethically enjoy your life the more artificial intelligence you need. You still think of Osho as some kind of saviour.
An experiment yes..
saviour no.
Permission to fuck up yes, stereotypical reproducible solutions , no. Actually it was those who used the experiment with their own agenda (let me tell you it was spelt with a big S, for suck), hidden deep in their red robes who ended up being the most boring predictable unrevolutionary inheritors of the Osho formulas, who still to this day peddle their manipulations either as priests or wannabes or festival organisers … walking right over your libido with a bunch of heavy boxes of osho quotes to drop on your genitals, whilst they gloat at your invisible-man of self-wrestling.
Osho too had a lot to be grateful for, that he got a bunch of westerners who already knew how to sleep around very well thank you, to give him the added blessing of letting his priests determine the language and identity of a complete lack of responsibility and utter lack of correspondence betweeen potential friends who without interference may well have grown a successful and personal community, instead of an ideological one.
Preetam, look at one thing, who is telling you to let go of your conditioning ? Your girlfriend who doesn’t love you , but is too scared to tell you because of her lack of interest. The bully who steals your girlfriend’s phone number from you , and tells you ‘things just happen’. The ones who declare themselves to be doing Osho’s vision while screwing your gf. The gf who has an abortion after fulfilling osho’s vision while you wait in the hospital for six hours until she wakes up and needs taking care of. Or is it you Preetam helping yourself to godly goodies you couldn’t dream of getting by any other effort or imagination than to tell people you love your master so much , that a one night stand would help your maturity flower into a commune loving bed buddy of everyone .. but no questions asked because its all part of a really credible grand plan, sign on dotted line and shut up at the back, no hecklers.
‘Preetam’ is a type, a formula, a gullible one made for socialising norms, so this message goes out to all the clones…and osho news readers etc etc…
fucking grow up ,
then look around and see people for what they are,
not what they want you , to see them as, for their own ends..
growing up is instant..
achieving ‘blessedness’ in a package takes … forever.
I never recommended a single osho therapy group to anyone, ever, or my experience of osho’s vision… thats my own with all its paradoxes to live with. Not as a product for selling to anyone who wants a halo.
The test, as always , you Preetams, is can you take the piss out of your religious maniacal self…with irony or self satire ?
(no heckling at the back, guys…..)
Funny prem martyn, calling me religious maniac, really Irony. What another irony is: I am not supporting religious beliefs of violent Religions through acceptance of their most common Archetype – marriage in becoming married.
Marriager’s are religious Maniacs; they need acceptance of institutional Religions.
Some how like ignoring Osho through the back door.
It is what for me is falling back in society, half hearted. It proofs perfect, the problem is not the Master it is the Disciple.
But not everyone gets married in a church, Preetam. What do you think of people who marry in a local authority register office, for example?
I was at a darshan where two Americans asked Osho to ‘marry’ them, which he did, saying that for him, marriage was “about helping the other to grow”.
What’s so ‘wrong’ about wanting to display such a committment? Or are you against it simply because it’s such a strong tradition?
I know, but originally rooted in religion it became an institution of that society. Acceptance of the same what is against man.
p.s.: I don’t blame people for being married, but either it is no big thing to mention. Perhaps many find their life destiny within marriage, but a few like to move without conditionings, they are not wrong even they do not follow society’s rules. Why such people get burnt at the stake, killed by poison, or possibly on the cross, or alive sealed in a wall, by mostly married people, for what?
Crucifixion, burning at the stake etc. are quite a distance from marriage though, aren’t they, Preetam?
If you’re trying to argue that marriage must be wrong because married people commit such acts, then your arguing with very flawed logic.
You might as well say that wearing clothes must be wrong because everyone who abuses another wears them. This is the sort of nonsense peddled by fanatics of all creeds and persuasions and, Preetam, at times you do come across as one of those, I’m afraid. Perhaps though, it’s just how you tend to express your views…
No, marriage is neither intrinsically ‘wrong’ nor ‘right’, it’s whether two married people can achieve harmony, “help each other grow”, that’s the question, not the institution. It’s all down to consciousness again, isn’t it?
Yes Satyadeva this arguing is flawy, but generalizing it into “all consciousness” is flawed logic, too. How ever it is fine with me people decide, but not going with society isn’t wrong, too.
By the way, at the middle age wearing jewelry on both arms were only aloud for people of high status. Today it’s a bit different, only people whom managed sucking others blood afford wearing beautiful clothes by the prize of thirsty kids and desperate mothers. I know its all my ego and mind.
What is the flaw in saying that whether two people living together in a committed relationship – call it ‘marriage’ – create harmony or not depends upon their consciousness?
By ‘consciousness’ I don’t mean anything ‘esoteric’, it’s more like practical common sense.
Bedcause, we have a little difference between, commitment and institutional. Being legally married is institutional, a deal by law. Being with a wife since 35 years, not married… is it no commitment? It was so awkward after Osho left his body, how many went into marriage, behaving as if now they are grownup, so ridicules. Now again behaving like responsible and respected member or better Therapist of society, making Money from no thing but going for the old fucked conditioning again. Commitment nice legalized by the intuition of the false, still asking for respect from perhaps actors or acceptance from Politics, as Sannyas always did. As I say, Sannyas inferior complex.
Well, Preetam, it’s possible you too are coming from another “conditioning”, ie that of your so-called sannyas. You seem obsessed by labels, ready to judge anyone by whether or not they choose to do something ‘traditional’, sometrhing ‘ordinary’, unselfconsciously ‘spiritual’ people like to do. For you, it appears that anything and everything of ‘society’ has, by definition, to be undesirable, ‘bad’, irretrievably tainted by corruption. Be careful you don’t become one of those utter bores unable to say anything without feeling the need to impress your precious ideology on your listener/reader.
What does it matter whether people choose the legally-sanctioned form of marriage or not, when the only thing that’s important is whether they are willing and able to help themselves and their partners live together in harmony? What do you know of such people’s motivations? Who are you to judge anyway?
On a more mundane level, let’s also not forget that marriage can be very beneficial for certain financial arrangements, eg taxes, inheritances etc. These can be important practical factors that a purely romantic, ideologically-bound idealist, might simply overlook….
SD says…”crucifixion and burning at the stake are quite a distance from marriage arent they preetam?”
maybe not.
well,seeing as how i cant understand what preetam`s on about,who knows?maybe in fact he`s doing some sort of deadpan double-dutch neo-sannyas les dawson routine.
i went to the chemist and asked for some sleeping pills for the wife
he said “why?”
i said “because she keeps waking up”
sort of thing.
Preetam, my overall impression gathered from your writing is that you obviously don’t enjoy a healthy sex life.
Are you meany because you are married, just kidding.
Preetam, I’m not married. I refer to the woman I’ve been living with for many years as my ‘wife’ for conveinance sake. Currently she is in Argentina leading a tantra group.
“We live in increasingly competitive times… To succeed in such an environment, we will need to differentiate our approach and innovate. As history has shown, corporations that are happy with resting on their laurels are weeded out by nimble competition….”
A paragraph from the letter written by New chairman of India´s most trusted business conglomerte,Tata.
It is really a bullshit illusion to think religions and spiritual movements are not competiting with each other..that non ambitiousness is virtue..
it is also a bigger bullshit that so called meditators are better human beings, and therefore can be better leaders.
If it was so, Osho´s sannyasins would have been in the position to lead from front rather than foot notes.
shantam prem says:
… it is also a bigger bullshit that so called meditators are better human beings, and therefore can be better leaders.
If it was so, Osho´s sannyasins would have been in the position to lead from front rather than foot notes.
You are looking at issue back to front. Meditation does not make you a better person, it is the better people who pick up meditation as their spiritual mode. You also fail to see that a huge event has happened to sannyasins and particularly, the death of Osho. It will take a long time before things settle. Some reckon as long as a hundred years. The re-ignition might be a book, or a film, or whichever media might be in use …
The other day I was wondering if a good Osho hologram would exhume the same vibe that Osho had …
CNN Hologram TV
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
* * *
Looking back to Crowley, the popularisation came after the publication of a book by John Symonds called ‘The Great Beast’ which didn’t even paint a particularly positive image of the Therion. Osho might be a footnote but it’s a footnote with 650 volumes (Crowley only had 542) and a set of meditations to kill for. It’s all a matter of appearances and presentation. As in the call of the Cthulhu, it is not dead but dreaming. It’s how you wait for it that matters. Sannyas has always been “a waiting”.
I doubt Osho’s impact will still be current a century from now. He’ll take his place amongst the fossils of his time but that is about it. Osho turned spirituallity into commerce. Well and good as far as it goes but it won’t stand the test of time because commerce is something people get mired in and he did. Osho himself said that God is not for sale and he was right, but it did not stop him from trying. The spiritual stars who shine bright over the centuries are the ones who were not trapped in the web of commerce.
Already some of Osho’s radical teahings are looking a bit threadbare. A hundred years from now he will not be remembered. I really dug it when he told me that one of the most stupid things someone can be caught up in is how they will be remembered when they are dead. So, you can rest assured he didn’t actually give a shit about any of that.
Lokesh says:
… So, you can rest assured he didn’t actually give a shit about any of that.
Oh absolutely! He publicly said that he didn’t care how he is going to be remembered …
Sorry for keep bringing up Crowley again but he is pertinent on a couple of issues …
1. Crowley after Cambridge had the opportunity to join the diplomatic service but the reason he chose magick was because he wanted to still being read in 500 years time. I am sure that Osho didn’t care how he is remembered but I am also sure that he did care, if you know what I mean. One of my favourite statements of Osho is that the ego is writing on water.
2. On whether Osho will be remembered in a hundred years is neither here or there for us but looking at it a little chronologically closer … Crowley was modernised by ppl like Robert Anton Wilson …
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/robert_anton_wilson.html
This process of ‘updating’ hasn’t happened with Osho yet but it doesn’t mean that it will not happen, and the chances are that it will. This stupid little detail I dug up the other day that Osho’s last 36 books were on zen … I’ve been asking around and nobody is aware of that. How come?
Osho hasn’t been boxed-in and analysed properly yet. Most of us were and are too close to see the forest.
I recall Osho saying that Crowley was misguided. I’ve read most of his books. Diary of a Drugfiend was the one I enjoyed most.
R A Wilson had this memorable line to say about Osho sannyasins: “A disciple is an asshole looking for a human being to attach itself to.”
Which is a common fault to judge Osho through his sannyasins. It is also a fault to compare Osho-sannyasins with other run of the mill disciples. We might have been called disciples but we were definitely not disciplined.
Very interesting Standpoint.
I’m currently offering sannyas deconditioning hugs and embrace trainings…
Its very simple ,
open mouth, put your tongue on your bottom lip, open your arms wide, like jesus on the cross and then reach out to anyone near and say…
hewo lub, wouth you lype a thate thonipe… woww, parr ouft …
prem martyn says:
I’m currently offering sannyas deconditioning hugs and embrace trainings…
I would have thought that “sannyas deconditioning” would exclude hugs and embraces … otherwise you are pouring petrol on the fire. Have you considered recommending back to back sex?
vartan sorry you got the wrong end of the stick there cos of possible language shortage..
the ‘deconditioning’ of my missive is a piss take on the assumptions of venal venerability peddled as ‘deconditioning of the hangups of society’, by proselytisers of osho.inc
..such as yourself and all that you wish others to assume by general ideological abstract linguistic equivalents which stay hollow at gut level …and with no black to the white ……or will you surprise us with some non-orthodox views on religious substitution for unfulfilled libidos… ne ?
prem martyn says:
by proselytisers of osho.inc
..such as yourself and all that you wish others to assume by general ideological abstract linguistic equivalents which stay hollow at gut level …
The response to a stimulus rests upon the history of the organism rather than the character or intensity of the stimulus.
…which may well be a ruse diguised as a deleted associative imperative, but you Vartan, of all people would know about that as I’m sure you know,…
..what a match on centre court with new balls this is turning out to be, ladies and gents
Shantam, What this thread has got to do with Tata’s letter. There is absolutely no connection with this topic. Well, I myself post somethings which are irrelevant, but this thread is opened by you. and you yourself are completely going astray.
Well, but that triggered a creative response from Bodhivartan talking about Osho hologram.
Chareveti , Charevati..
Prem, nobody here takes anything that Shantam says seriously. Everyone knows that he fell out of his pram as a baby and as a result was permanently brain damaged. Shantam is actually a perfect manifestatuion of what went wrong with the sannyas movement.
So how to discover your purpose in life ?
Take out a blank sheet of paper or open up a word processor where you can type .
Write at the top, “What is my true purpose in life?”
Write an answer (any answer) that pops into your head. It doesn’t have to be a complete sentence. A short phrase is fine.
Repeat step 3 until you write the answer that makes you laugh out loud. This is your purpose.
Martyn, what to do if you do not believe in the idea that seperate individuals exist and hence see that the idea of having a purpose in life is bankrupt. Please advise.
bearing in mind francois duc de la rochefoucauld`s famous maxim:
“good advice is something that a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example”
my neo-crowlean advice would be:
“do what thou wilt until thou art completely wilted..”
Frank, what transcendence technique is that ? I’ve looked in my tattered copy of the Book of the Cigarettes and I can only find one reference to being at the fag end of consciousness, yet nevertheless lighting up.
Lokesh, that’s for advanced users….My advice in all cases of bankruptcy is to make sure you’ve hidden the cash somewhere safe, like a registered charity in Switzerland for lost causes.
If I stash the cash in a charity for lost causes Shantam is bound to get his chubby fingers on it. Besides, Switzerland is no longer the safe haven it once was for black money. I stash my millions in Rubovia. The local babes are hot and I love the local beverage, ayaironbru, not to mention the annual interest of a staggering 18%. Please keep this under your turban. Don’t want the riff raf geting hip to this fabulous tax haven in heaven.
Beloved Prem aka Love,
thanks for joining back benchers club of Osho sannyasins and Ex. Sannyasins.
Your point is valid, what is the relevance of Tata´s letter in this thread of Osho´s provocation about pre marital and extra marital relations.
If you go through the other threads at sannyasnews, you will see it creates tapastry of different colors of thread merging with the main thread.
Lokesh, you too are perfect manifestation of all those abnormals who came to Osho.
Most are still the same, reason?
They did not got motherly wife who is a surgeon too. As i see from your writings, you boat has many holes but a strong anchor!
May be this was Osho´s way to expel people out from His work. Instead of kicking on their ass, He was sending them away with flowers!
Shantam says, ‘May be this was Osho´s way to expel people out from His work. Instead of kicking on their ass, He was sending them away with flowers!’
Here the master bufoon provides us with a great example of sannyas double think. Once more we hear of ‘His work’, notice the upper case lettering on His. If Shantam is an example of His work one can only conclude that Osho was out to create lost people..which would tie in with Osho’s concept of losing oneself to find oneself.
I don’t believe Osho wanted to create idiots but it is doubtless par for the course that some will attain the exalted state of idiothood, as Shantam demostrates so perfectly.
Whilst painting a cupboard this morning I was contemplating why it is that disciples often experience the need to make their guru so special in terms of the world. My son does that with one of his spiritual heroes and I tend to keep my mouth shut. Basically it is an ego trip. Suggested reading, ‘Cutting through spiritual materialism.’ The title says it all.
Shantam, when push came to shove Osho did not hold back when letting someone have it. Your sending them away with flowers number is pure cornball. Osho, in the seven years I spent around him, never requested that I go anywhere and he always treated me well, without a hint that I was not welcome on his back porch. As for this all-seeing eye in the mystic sky with magic strings that manipulate your life…forget it.
I might add that Shantam does indeed have a special connection to Tata, that’s because he said ‘ta-ta’ to any form of generally agreed upon reality a very long time ago. There has been a fair amount of speculation on SN as to the true cause of Shantam’s affliction. I’d say that it probably has a lot to do with his perverse sexual appetities. To be more specific I suspect that Shantam’s overuse of frozen beef pies and gerbil sausages, on the rare occasions that he actually finds some willing bag lady to perform the act with him for a few rupees, may well have pushed the poor chap over the edge. As the months pass the poor fellow’s delusions become ever more grand. From doing Osho’s work to maintaining Osho’s legacy, nobody actually has a clue what he is on about. There will always be a few casualties on the spiritual path and he is sadly one of them. I’m off to say a prayer to the Compassionate Buddha for Shantam’s safe return from the abyss of madness and then maybe he can get married and settle down to a quiet life, wherein he will realize that it’s in the simple things in life we find life’s greatest treasures.. Now then, where did I leave my Nag Champa incense?
Lokesh says:
… Shantam … From doing Osho’s work to maintaining Osho’s legacy, nobody actually has a clue what he is on about.
In fact Shantam is one of the few people here who is giving us a pure mind-dump, instead of editing it into flowery fictional stories.
If Osho has a legacy it is a somewhat confusing one. As for his work, he did his bit.
What I’ve repeatedly said about Osho in various threads on SN is that Osho was about a vibe much more than anything he said. He no longer exists except for what remains in people’s memories, projections and imaginations, which, all things considered, were mental mechanisms he never had much time for in others and ocassionaly indulged in himself.
Lokesh says:
What I’ve repeatedly said about Osho in various threads on SN is that Osho was about a vibe much more than anything he said.
I agree about the vibe element but I disagree about the non-validity of the words. Without the words there would have been no vibe. So much about silence from the man who couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
>He no longer exists except for what remains in people’s memories, projections and imaginations …
Again I disagree. For me, before Osho, everyone I have ever respected was already dead and I never felt that anything was missing and I could have lived my life as a totally happy chap. I never expected to come across such a man, alive. I never asked for him and I wasn’t in need of him. The other day I was thinking that I only knew Osho alive for seven years. Not that many really. Now he is no longer here, for me, this is a more ‘normal state’ i.e. experiencing wisdom through books. The books, tapes, and videos, are Osho’s legacy and through them is how how people will experience him. The memories will fade, the projections will increase, and hopefully the imaginations will be pretty. You have no idea how lucky we were to experience “the vibe”.
Wise men leave behind in books what they can’t take with them. The most important thing Osho said in regards his words was that his real message was contained in the space between the words…in other words silence.
Lokesh says:
… his real message was contained in the space between the words…in other words silence.
It is the presence of the words that create the spaces. It is the words which give context and beauty to the silence, otherwise, it could be any old empty space.
You have given me a great idea about “21st Century Sannyas” and I have a question for any one who may care to answer.
The question: Crowley’s list of works are known as Crowleyana. What would Osho’s list be called, Oshoana, or Oshoania?
None of this is making me enlightened, should I write into Osho News instead ? Apparently they are going to get a no-hold-barred reporter for roving the remaining Osho empire…According to a secret dossier, the top questions they will be asking in the next issue are :
Mitky and Premky songs .. can there be one too many la-las in a chorus ?
Osh events around the world…can swooning and swaying in white robes be a sign of early onset of osheimers ?
Time to Ponder : The healing effects of Boredom and finding the most useless meditation.
Missing an Insight.. How to recover a lost insight with a handy pair of tweezers , some sellotape and a book of Osh quotes.
A meditators diary. A daily page of the highlights of selected meditators moments.Here’s a snippet..
‘As I was breathing in fresh air, I realised that tea would be another 15 minutes away. I breathed out. Later I saw that I had been expecting tea. Still there was no tea. I was alone with no tea.The minute passed, another 14 to go. Somehow , someway this was related to me transcending tea-ness. Would I be able to stay this centred even if we had no tea but only coffee. What a paradox.
plus
Almost famous, almost important people quoting Osho, can there ever be enough photos ?
The Bentley Roller Guide to gadgets and consciousness devices. We ask our man at the petrol station to tell us how five star and five gallons of super lube can change the world.
Sexually risky partners I have Loved ; photos of just how many transcending sex experiences one can have with a candle, some incense, rope and a black robe.
Just how did Osho get enlightened? We use the ancient Vedic methods of endless quotes to get you there faster.
‘If it doesn’t feel like love it ain’t love’…
How to impose reality and avoid tricky questions whilst holding a microphone and pontificating on never -mind spaces and uncomfortable sexual positions : A Guide for Improving weekend bookings.
How I claimed serenity and serendipity by using ready made answers.. a book for quick relief by Ma Shagtastia.
(including the ever useful…..)
‘That’s your stuff , A lot’s happening for me , I’m looking at some issues at the moment, I just want to share ,You need to let go more and just be open. I need more space, We are alone together, You need to have more transcendence whilst I need to have more partners., it’ll be good for us. I don’t do Anal, as only one of us can transcend then. If I sit on your face will you surrender ?
Available at all good outlets of Hanover Windsor Virgin Island Banks and Shops.
prem martyn says:
… None of this is making me enlightened, should I write into Osho News instead ?
Is the Osho News a British effort?
You can not become enlightened if you are already enlightened silly.
as they plunged deeper into the tomb of the pharaoh King Tootancomein ….. Carter raised his burning lantern and thusly spoke …
‘ tis a marvel to behold , a contrasting echo, which repeats what is said but with a reappraisal for added invective’…’must be the voice of the King’s father Parenthisis, who is stuck in that wall bracket over there, near the forgotten post crypt’…
‘wait for it here it comes again……..’
haiku(88-90)
cracked vinyl
spins ad nauseam
the record stuck
the record stuck
the….
I love it when the car/cycle/ego of the wiser than wise get punctured.
SN’s resident alternative medical expert Dr Hu. S. Yin this week advises on New Year allergic reactions.
Herro Rear Leaders,
Many of you ask dis time of year , why I no get enough Irony in my diet ? Maybe you no like vegetubles, like shantam. Nobbody, like him neither. Shame for shantam. Vegetible good.Ok?Chop chop.
People dey come round here say, Doctor I suffer dis and dat probrem, but most probrem dey have is long sad face. I say, you look shitface. They leave shop! Why No irony ? Most peephole can take supllement for irony deficient. Look shantam no irony and also deficient. He no take irony supplies . In my opinion man got deficient in Arshram in India, no much vitamin in Indian food so lose irony in blood…too much master batsman also maybe cause lack of vision. okdokey?. Indian religion mind. Take serious religious job, make shitface.No irony or vitamin B himself , very trouble.
So confucious he say, you take piss you see what inside man. Ok Happy New Year 46704. Year of Tofu Burger ..like shaolin monks all veggy.. they real meditators and on slimming diet.. cos they wait watchers. Okdokey?
‘Call any vegetable and the chances are good the vegetable will respond to you.’ Frank Zappa.
Was Zappa leaving a message for those of us who have to deal with the Shantams of this world?
Thanks for some of the enlightertaining comments posted today. Came in handy for a good laugh on a cold wet day on Ibiza with only my beloved cats to talk to. Meow.
Fast changing India but old mind set of religious preachers and social thinkers. Yoyo´s primitive songs, Sonny Leone´s xxx to Mahesh Bhatt´s xx, 190 million internet handys with many times more porn clips and every day news of Rape.
I know, soul of mother India must be missing Osho. The only spiritual master, who could shed the light into the dark vallies of human psychology and lead into the light of divinity..
May be one day mind of India will feel ashamed too, how it mistreated Osho´s ashram; the only ashram where approach was healthy, wholesome, futuristic.
Shantam describes Osho as, ‘The only spiritual master, who could shed the light into the dark vallies of human psychology and lead into the light of divinity.’
Once again this need to make Osho the greatest…the Mohamed Ali of the guru ring. Perhaps the weight of living up to such an absurd notion while alive hastened Osho to an early death. Shantam, this is all a projection on your part. Osho was who he was and the only thing that drives people to deposit his image on a pedestal is their ego.
All this stuff about being led by someone into the light of divinity is a load of romantic nonsense. The idea that you have to be led somewhere implies that you believe the truth of who you are to be somewhere up ahead. Continue to see the truth as being somewhere else and you will never find it.
Shantam needs to go viral… here’s what a simple repeated idea can do when it is ‘transcended’ ….into music…..
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20899524
One pound fish…come on ladies…
Once it was…
One meditation enlightenment..
come on ladies!
and they came!
Just few decades ago, world was quite innocent..
if spending time in the physical presence of Acharya/Bhagwan/Osho has some significant, His 10 siblings and more than 50 cousins will already have their seats booked in the VIP gallery of Wisdom Pavallion.
I hope Lokesh and Co. will take noitce.
As far as my understanding is concerned, there is no effort on my part to project Osho as Master of the masters. Never ever used such analogy; neither it makes any difference in my reverance for Osho, even if Cosmic Management unltd. sends a memo to the earth with the news, “Osho is not entitled for enlightenment, only Ramana, Punja and some other ba ba black sheep could fullfill the criteria.
Fact will still remain the same, one short man with long beard gave His level best to change the nitty gritty of religious business..
Osho has not failed, His disciples have. They have surrundered to the collective mind, because they are afraid to annoy the established players..Osho walked like an elephant in the suburbs of Pigmies!
Shantam:
Osho has not failed, His disciples have. They have surrendered to the collective mind, because they are afraid to annoy the established players…Osho walked like an elephant in the suburbs of Pygmies!
SD:
“Failed” in what sense precisely, Shantam? How can you judge who has ‘succeeded’ or not?
More to the point:
What about you? Does your above critical comment apply to you yourself, by any chance?
Are you ‘a success’ or a ‘failure’, Shantam? Are you even capable of accurate self-reflection, or are you too busy assessing others?
I seem to recall someone saying to me…nothing fails like sucessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss,
Interesting, from when something becomes “success”? Only if it becomes visible to the outside by wealth perhaps, through or by what he speaks. If a person argues “onto my own authority” at what point he is allowed to assert this?
Shantam says, ‘There is no effort on my part to project Osho as Master of the masters. Never ever used such analogy.’
A little earlier he said Osho is and I quote, ‘ the ONLY spiritual master, who could shed the light into the dark vallies of human psychology and lead into the light of divinity.’
Now, do I see a contradiction there or am I imagining things?
I find it quite remarkable how Shantam is completely closed to the idea that there are in existance many great masters with some wisdom to share. Shantam shunts them into a trash can by describing them collectively as…’ba ba black sheeps’. I remind you once again that Osho himself said that when he left this world he wanted us to be open to other teachers and quite rightly so. Shantam you are missing something significant.
“pygmies” as a pejorative term..?
now there`s a classic piece of osho parroting!
so-called pygmies are, in africa of recent times , much persecuted peoples and widespread victims of genocide.
they dont need further denigration and abuse from the “only spiritual master..”and his idiot disciples.
Why, some of my best friends are pygmies. Come on you little blighters say hello to Frank and Shantam.
‘Umgabi peepo!’
beloved lokesh,
my feeling is that retarded pygmies,cunning politicians,long-faced englishmen,tremendously repressed indians,the mind and the unconscious masses are heading for global suicide and AIDS.
love.
could we change the discussion to transcending remaining fish stocks and the effect of global warming on Osho’s work vis a vis the role of hunter gatherers in a shrinking world.. otherwise there’s a danger i might not find any relevant videos to keep this thread going…
Have you heard of the Fuckar’we tribe? They are little people living in long grass and wonder lost all day saying, “Where the fuck are we?”
I’ll get my coat.
yes,i heard that one at a bernard manning gig.
remember that one on the ranch when osho said something like: black people were backward and hadn`t even got to the point of having a religion let alone getting past it or some such speech?
i remember the shocked silence.
of course everyone thought it was a “device”
altho i couldnt picture clearly what the device was devised for.
still cant.
if there hadnt been african rhythms,there`d have been no chuck berry and elvis.
no chuck berry,no elvis… no osho sex guru.
intellectuals and psychotherapists theorised about loosening people up.
rock n roll did it.
give me that stuf any day over the endless lala and twaddling.
i can see why norah jones couldn`t hack that interminable “spiritual” twiddling of her pompous dad,ravi shankar and went country and western.
frank says:
osho said something like: black people were backward and hadn`t even got to the point of having a religion …
I wonder if Osho had any books on Voodoo in his extensive library. It is on a growth curve all over S. America, the Caribbean, and W. Africa. It’s my favourite religion. It tends to shut most people up.
Osho never spoke on women with multiple partners who had children without maintenance or support, as a way of transcending sex. His books therefore perhaps do not sell well in the caribbean.
The cure for colonial fratricidal imperialism was perhaps a little underrated with a call to hum on the inbreath and then dance for fifteen minutes. It generally only works if you can sell it to BMW advertising executives and glossy be-here-now sexy ads for lingerie as a way forward to improving ‘aware’ and associated values revenue, as new ploys for old toys, with a tired post modernist audience to improve the experience of living in a fading world.
Religion is just a mechanism for regulating people on an individual and collective basis. It gives illusory power. When Osho said that black people didn’t have a religion, I merely said that they do have one. What I like about Vudu is that it can used by man when he has nothing else left, even when naked and in chains. The concept of ‘given’. Of having to pick up with whatever you have, even with nothing, and move on. I have no moral stance in the matter.
Check out a S. African comedy called “The Gods Must Be Crazy”. You will find it surprisingly enlightening on many levels.
come on you ladies …one pound guru
he no fail he no fail
we fail. not me
all de othders they fail..
come on you ladies
one pound guru
resort management dey all rubbish
we fail they fail
he no fail
i no fail
i write sannyas news cos i too fat to dance
come on you ladies..
…of course the pygmies do have varying degrees of polygamy in some areas which is sort of relevant to the polyamorism cure-all of the singular Osho topic quote in this thread. Which was and is taken as an edict , which it’s not, although therapists as a whole, consider is directly connected to ‘opening up’, much like adventurers in the Congo thought of opening up the new territories.. by force….because it was good for the fuzzy wuzzies to grab them by the short and curlies…and largely osho’s grand plan determined the corporate sannyas of the ‘resistance and surrender’ approach,..language that was used impositionally to satisfy cohesion, which in its turn was managed and exorcised via solitary catharsis or its partner in growthful crime, therapeutic ‘letting go’ .
i have no problem with any form of evolutionary intelligent sexual suggestions of choice, but when it’s used for the ‘greater good’, without a consequent interpersonal validation or examination of the underlying assumptions, which believe me still tacitly continue in sannyas, (although to a lesser extent) because of its sanctified associations, then, you neither get free will or universal emptiness.. but a pile of jungle crap created by Osho’s scuttling aspiring minions.
It’s the shift into aspirational mode that really screws things up, not the choice itself, because, under command from above (wherever that is) we oblige ourselves and others to forsake their ‘individual’ responses, reaching for a disassembled collective ‘empty self’ for each and every justification….
according to a set table of approved priorities.
ie>
no hocus without pocus.. magic sexy show baba, look…!
(dear eds ; i’m working hard here at staying on topic .. phewwww.)
i was in the African bush once…..
Ah, bushmen of the Kalahari…grok the fullness…oops, I mean emptiness. Pass the peace pipe and then back to the Osho Dumbho-humdrum. Puff, puff. White man speak with forked tongue. I’m off to satsang with Gandhooji.
In all over the developed world, women have gained equal rights to dump any lover any time without any termination contract. In recent times in high profile cases, for example Heidi Klum has dumped her counterpart,father of her few children.
So it is nothing extraordinary, well established behaviour, worthy of Gala and other Soccermom´s reading habits.
What i want to say is that in any case, Martyn, would have been dumped by this or that women, the way. most of the men have faced this, in the game of love.
In his kind of case, Osho and His therapists have become the subject of his rage. I hope he gets married with someone in a Catholic ceremony, with life long oath, till death makes them apart!
Shantam , I don’t go out with meat eaters so stop flirting….
I tend to ignore meat eaters opinions who claim sannyas without any discursive emotive intelligence either, and who avoid any self revelation whatsoever. But thanks for sharing .. now literally, go get stuffed on a mcdonalds screamoburger.
come on martyn,
dont be so negative.
osho did a lot of good stuff for people.
take shantam,for example.
by his own account….
there he is… another jobless turbanator jacking off in his room in jullundur,a kind of punjabi pygmy,an unemployable law drop out on a no job,no fee basis….being harrassed and nagged by his mum every day to get married to some hairy local bird with a tache and a face like the back end of a tata sumo.
suddenly, he meets osho,gets the vision,then gets a haircut,has a shave and next thing he knows, before you can say “bang-galore”,he`s got multiple partners– heidi klum and kate winslet-lookalike girlies crawling all over him having multiple orgasms!
then to cap it all, he jumps ship to deutschland and swaps his one plate of rice,dal, chapati a day sikh social security for the german social system,free condoms,medical care and down to lidl every thursday to stock up on the 2 for 1 meat pie offers….sorted!
are you trying to tell me that that doesnt qualify as “enlightenment”?
its got to be a sort of satori,no?
well, enlidlment,at least?
That’s a bit of a fairy tale really Frank…
I guess each man deserves his lidl red riding hood. Shantam’s story really must have been grimm as you say, so aesopose we shouldn’t condemn al the babes and their faulty views if they have cinderellatively kind to a sikh man in need of help. There’s a hundred and one damnations a man can suffer, and I’m just happy that his opinocchions show he nose a lot of truth. Wood that we all shared them instead of punching each dubious allegation with a trenchant reply. Even if we think we know who’s a naughty boy then, it doesn’t matter in the end to all us boys and girls , does it ?
‘Oh no it doesn’t….’
‘oh yes it does…’
( oh no it…..etc etc….)
too much bla bla bla bla ….. who wants to marry ..get married and who doesnt …. dont get marry. dont do too much masterbation with mind.