I don’t feel it has it been fully appreciated how difficult it must have been for those very close to Osho

I remember Him saying that those close to the fire were burning up. There were people that had to dispose of his faeces, so that it wasn’t collected and made into relics. In the godman paradigm some saw too-much god while others saw too-much man.

I have studied the relationship dynamics of those very close to Hitler, both with each other but also with their fuhrer. I am in no way suggesting that there are any similarities between Hitler and Osho (although others have  suggested so, and they are wrong). The reason I am bringing Hitler into the conversation is because he, just like Osho, never said exactly what he wanted thus forcing those around him to keep bringing him ‘stuff’ for him to pick from. Those around Hitler had to constantly be listening and watch his every move in order to get ahead of the game in pleasing him. This is a tremendous psychological stress mechanism and the implications of the process worth a study.

Criminal acts aside, I can see the problem that was faced both by Sheela and Jayesh (and I suppose by extension all of us) because Osho’s first message is always “think for yourself” and even if you are to take-on his suggestion, you are only to act if it has become your reality too. Those 100s of hours that Jayesh spent with Osho discussing the future plans were probably just Osho rambling-on to him to make him feel special. Each sannyasin was and is projecting on Osho, and those closer to Him (probably) had the biggest projections and expectations. History is attempting to portray Osho as a control freak and a manipulator when in fact it was always us, ‘interpreting’. Something we are still doing.

Vartan

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38 Responses to I don’t feel it has it been fully appreciated how difficult it must have been for those very close to Osho

  1. Lokesh says:

    I find the parallel drawn between Hitler and Osho to be really stretching it a bit. Vartan, I think enough has been said in the way of comparing Hitler with our beloved Osho. It is simply ridiculous. Hitler was a monster, who was behind the mass extinction of millions of innocent human beings and that is the end of it. Osho was in essence a peace-loving chap, who liked talking and having quick sex with his female disciples…and ehm, driving Rolls Royces and…er…had expensive taste when it came to watches…and…oops…implemented a plan to have mass sterilizations on his commune, including 14 year-old girls…and ehm…oh, dear…put a neo-fascist in charge of his American commune, whereupon a number of acts were committed that some legal authorities deemed ‘terrorist’ in nature…oh my, this is not looking so good…I’ll…I’ll….get back to the drawing board and see if I can find a different approach to the question. Golly, I feel so embarrassed!

  2. frank says:

    “I am not a democrat. I am a dictator. That is why so many Germans come to me.”
    Osho…’Notes of a Madman’.

    The last time I was at the Resort, in the 90s,I was queuing in the Welcome Centre. There was a dispute between a customer and the guy on the desk, a blond, blue-eyed German guy.
    I don’t remember the details but he could not allow the person to do what she wanted. When pressed as to why he couldn’t, he replied, completely irony-free, deadpan:
    “I am just obeying orders.”

    I never thought I would hear that in real time in my lifetime.
    It was well worth the entrance fee just for that.

  3. Parmartha says:

    You don’t predicate your remarks on why certain people find themselves in these type of situations! It is now a well reported social research fact that many CE’s are sociopaths! I think that word sort of matches the description of some of those who ran and run sannyas and other spiritual organisations in the temporal world.
    I found myself “burned” by Osho sitting in the coldest places, and on the highest hills. A long way from his physical presence or in fact anyone else.
    Because I have been around since 1974 on the shores of sannyas let me say that many of those who “pushed their way to the top” as they saw it, were in fact non-meditators and interested in social and political power – that they would have best been advised to pursue elsewhere. Jayesh was a CE of a Canadian property company pre-sannyas, Savita was the head of an accountancy firm here in London, Hasya was something in Hollywood, the list could go on.
    None of these people simply found themselves at the poles of the commune hierarchy, they went for it.
    You are really talking about the fire that burns on ambition, and the inevitable Macbeth type of fireball in which all political power ends. Nothing to do with Osho.

  4. Lokesh says:

    Vartan, could you please define what being ‘very close’ to Osho actually means in this case.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Lokesh says:
      “Vartan, could you please define what being ‘very close’ to Osho actually means in this case?”

      Great question, Lokesh. In this particular instance I was referring to the physical closeness to Him and His games. Parmartha is right, the ones that rose to the top (closeness) got there by plan and not accident. And He knew it. Hehe.

      But before I get into that, I want to go back to the Hitler thing, as irreverent as it might be. In absolutely no way I am comparing Osho to Hitler (tho they were running on the same software, much of it provided by Nietzsche), what I am comparing is the clique around Hitler with the clique around Osho, when confronted by the software. The private Osho wasn’t the public Osho. Do you care what car the plumber drives when you want your plumbing fixed?

      Many envied the ones close to Him, but they were mere plumbers. Many had their illusions shattered (and on purpose). They think their bird has flown. And for them it has.

      Vartan

      • satyadeva says:

        “The private Osho wasn’t the public Osho.”

        Interesting statement, Vartan. Although I guess that would be true of many public figures (and non-public ones too, ie most people).

        But could you explain in more detail, please?

        • bodhi vartan says:

          Satyadeva says:
          “The private Osho wasn’t the public Osho.”

          But could you explain in more detail, please?

          I can go two ways with this, but the way I meant it was that the private Osho wasn’t part of his teaching. The private Osho was doing the best he could (with the best he had) to allow the teaching to take place. Many, especially those close to him, were looking for the lessons in the wrong place. Most of the sannyasins out there in the periphery were learning the teaching and were happy with their god-man, while those close to him were never really sure. Especially if they didn’t love him. Love means that sometimes you have to say no. Politicians always say yes and get themselves in trouble.

          Vartan

  5. alok john says:

    P wrote, “Jayesh was a CE of a Canadian property company pre-sannyas, Savita was the head of an accountancy firm here in London, Hasya was something in Hollywood, the list could go on.
    None of these people simply found themselves at the poles of the commune hierarchy, they went for it.”

    Are you sure, P? Surely Osho needed highly skilled people to run his commune. And there were not so many such people around. So many of us had “issues”, in today’s parlance. Hasya, Jayesh got chosen cos they had the skills and experience.

    • Lokesh says:

      Yes, Alok, but others just bulldozed their way up the ladder. They were not particularly bright or highly skilled. They were bulldozers. Somehow bulldozers must have their place in Osho’s dream.
      Alok, I was going to ask how your spiritual growth is coming along, but decided against it. I hope that’s alright with you.

  6. Lokesh says:

    I have one friend who lived in Osho’s house for years. Let’s call them X. I usually don’t ask too many questions about Osho’s private life to X, although I am tempted. X gives concise replies to any of my queries. X never once saw a strange female enter his room for example, strange meaning someone who did not live in his house. X does not seem to have suffered in the least due to living in close proximity to Osho, in fact, quite the opposite. X is a very gentle person, with a good sense of humour…a good all-rounder.
    I’m sure some who lived ‘very close’ to Osho suffered as a consequence of disillusionment…but then so did I. In my case I’m glad that I went through a period of disillusionment, because it woke me up to certain realities. Indirectly I suppose I have Osho to thank for that.
    Today, I find it difficult to take anything about sannyas or Osho seriously. It is all a bit of a complex joke as far as I can see. How can anyone call Osho master of masters or the awakened one, taking into consideration all the daft stunts he pulled? To draw comparisons between Christ and Buddha in relation to Osho is in my mind preposterous. For many that is simply an indication of their lack of intelligence or their need to feel special, in the sense of having the most enlightened guru etc.
    I took Osho down from the pedestal I put him on. Keeping him up there as some holy of holies is for ignorant people. Osho did a great job at being Osho…no need to compare. He was a wonderful man, brilliant on many levels, a shining light on a dark night etc. He was also a con man, who made some decisions that were so bad he made himself look like a buffoon.
    Good, I say, because that showed Osho was human, not some perfect god to be worshipped. If people suffered for being ‘very close’ to him that is fine. Suffering is the most valuable tool that we have at our disposal for learning. Also, it’s good to bear in mind that in the suffering stakes what we are discussing here is kid’s stuff. Nothing compared to the terminal cancer ward, or say some impoverished mother in some godforsaken hell hole, cradling a starving infant in her arms as it takes its last breath.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Lokesh says:
      To draw comparisons between Christ and Buddha in relation to Osho is in my mind preposterous. For many that is simply an indication of their lack of intelligence or their need to feel special, in the sense of having the most enlightened guru etc.

      Wow! I am not that much into the Christ and Buddha stuff. They don’t engage me either spiritually or intellectually. Osho engaged me in both those subjects but also brought a new element in the relationship, that of emotion. I was a thelemite for twelve years before I met Osho but I was never in love with Crowley. Actually, I was glad he was dead because I wouldn’t have wanted to meet him but I would have had to, probably.

      I come from the island of Aphrodite, the goddess of love, which means I know when I am being seduced. When I looked into Osho’s eyes I could see the game, all of it, but I still wanted to play. And to me, he played his part perfectly. He was a great showman. Spiritual Terrorist is probably his best description. All dressed in black and with sunglasses indoors.

      And I am happy to be calling myself a Spiritual Terrorist too, even today. If I had to compare Osho to anyone historically I would say Pythagoras, but I don’t know if old P had any shaktipat. I wouldn’t have believed it existed if I didn’t experience it. I think I am brainwashed.

      You are hanging around the Osho fields, Lokesh (and using the name), so you must still be getting something out of it. To me it has always been Him and the rest of us and now he is not here it’s just us. Nice to be meeting you here and talking with you.

      Vartan

  7. shantam prem says:

    Vartan, how old are you ?
    When you came in contact with Osho and have you been to Rajneeshpuram?
    I know from one of your last replies you were never in Pune?

    This little information is vital to know, whether you are recreating the history through books and newspaper cuttings or you have some one-to-one encounter with the people around Osho.

    • Lokesh says:

      ‘Vital to know’, says Shantam. He’s probably been drinking too much strong chai, or maybe bhang lassi. Vital to know! Always good for a laugh.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Shantam Prem says:
      Vartan, how old are you ?
      When you came in contact with Osho, and have you been to Rajneeshpuram?
      I know from one of your last replies, you were never in Pune?

      This little information is vital to know, whether you are recreating the history through books and newspaper cuttings or you have some one to one encounter with the people around Osho.

      I am 59. I was never in Pune, but I was on the ranch. With my girlfriend at the time, who was the head of Phoenix Arizona centre, we walked into Sheela’s office and had a nice long chat. Does that qualify me? It’s all nonsense. Recently, I’ve been meeting some young sannyasins and they think that those that were around when He was alive have something different. The mind is constantly trying to create divisions. Even when there are none.

      Vartan

  8. Lokesh says:

    ‘You must still be getting something out of it.’ Enlightentertainment.

    Buddha was the real thing. He was willing to give his life to get to the truth. That is an extremely rare quality in a human being. He found what he was looking for and his teachings can be used as a great reference point. His life was well documented.

    esus Christ is a more romantic figure. During his lifetime there were a couple of dozen chroniclers around and not one of them mentioned anything about a chap walking on water or giving eyesight to the blind…big news back in the day. My favorite JC read is part three of The Urantia Book. What a story.

    Although many draw comparisons in sannyasin circles to Osho being a Christlike or Buddhalike figure I simply don’t see the connection, other than him giving excellent discourses on Buddha and Christ….

    When I first met H W L Poonja in Lucknow the satsang scene was such that you could just stand up and ask a question and if you felt, debate a point. I really dug that and it made me think this was how it should be around a master. There was something ancient yet timeless about the process…very dynamic too. If there was anything Buddhalike about Mr Poonja it would have had to be one of those chubby laughing ones…the man liked nothing better than to laugh out loud. There is an excellent video on You Tube of sannyasin Yogini that captures the vibe perfectly. Found it! If you have the eyes to see it this is a great example of real let-go and profound teaching technique. Check it.

    The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    • dominic says:

      The habit of romanticising teachers and their teachings persists.
      Buddha, JC, Papaji…What do you know really, except what you want to believe?

      • roman says:

        Not a bad comment. The first written records we have of Buddha are 500 years after his death. It was an oral tradition. So a story was embellished and a myth created. Gautama existed and it is a very powerful narrative which isn’t to be be dismissed.

        As for Jesus, the Christian gospels were all writen some time after his death. No need to bore you with which one came first and the audiences they were written for. We do have non-Christian sources which are more contemporary and obviously not by cult members.
        Josephus, the Jewish historian, writes about Jesus, but we also know his writings were tampered with by later Christians.
        An orthodox Jewish person I know also wants to show me, over a coffee, material about Jesus which was written at the time, but not by the converted.
        Geza Vermes, ‘The Changing Faces of Jesus’, is a book to read on the guy. He’s done pioneering work on the area and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Check him out. No new age bullshit. Solid work from an eminent scholar, fun to read.

        As for Poonja, I can’t comment, I wasn’t there, but people are moved by Billy Graham and cry profusely. I met a guy once who loved being ‘born again’ at Pentecostal meetings. He had it done six times and loved the attention. He wasn’t a Christian. People love profundity. What is Osho being turned into?

    • Preetam says:

      That is the only way, Life for Truth.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Lokesh says:
      There is an excellent video on You Tube of sannyasin Yogini that captures the vibe perfectly. Found it! If you have the eyes to see it this is a great example of real let-go and profound teaching technique. Check it.

      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

      What was that all about? She asked a stupid question and then went into a tailspin. And where was her mala? Hehe. I saw that guy Papaji being mentioned here before, are you selling him? Last I checked, he was dead.

      Have you come across this chap? At least he is alive. I find him captivating, even tho I might not necessarily agree with everything he says:
      http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Slavoj+%C5%BDi%C5%BEek&oq=Slavoj+%C5%BDi%C5%BEek&gs_l=youtube.12..0l10.2269.2269.0.3780.1.1.0.0.0.0.57.57.1.1.0…0.0…1ac.zq_CmGx5CiM

      (Here is a nice long one):
      Slavoj Žižek. The Buddhist Ethic and the Spirit of Global Capitalism. 2012

      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

      Vartan

      • lokesh says:

        Looks a bit dodgy to me.

      • dominic says:

        Yeah, he appears on tv progs from time to time. Seems somewhat ‘bonkers’, over-excited, and his funny manner (voice and tics) distract from the ‘intellectual’ content.

      • roman says:

        Vartan,
        You have an interesting mind. Zizek is a subversive thinker. He certainly isn’t into post-modernism. This crafty Slovenian is politically very astute. He once turned up in New York to give a lecture, the hall was packed and hundreds outside smashed windows because they weren’t admitted. He was recently interviewed on a conservative televsion program in Australia and he just took over and no-one knew what to do.

        He’s a communist influenced by Marx, Hegel, Freud and Lacan. I’ve read a few of his books. I know people associated with him. Get the dvd,’The Pervert’s Guide to the Cinema’, it is brilliant and funny. You can probably download it.

        By the way, Lacan and Osho have a few things in common. Love the four minute therapy session where Lacan would throw you out on the street when you said a certain word. You’d pay him big money, thank him and be left confused. Lacan had the largest art collection in Europe. Zizek was in Lacanian analysis for some time. It prevented him from suiciding. All he did was lie and the analyst thought he wanted to fuck his daughter. Lacan set up his own ‘universities.’ Some one else has picked up the connexion between Lacan and Osho. Zizek’s analyst was Lacan’s brother-in-law. He took over the whole show after Lacan died.

        I have soft spot for Slavo but he can be repetitive. He’s also a performer. Great with jokes. Likes to be on his own except when he can be with beautiful women. He likes to read, write and provoke. Sound familiar?
        By the way you’ve never replied to my post on gynocracies?

  9. shantam prem says:

    I just checked the video referred to by Lokesh. The video of Shri Hira lal Punja ji taking care of his primary school grandchildren.

    One such 5 year-old boy was asking his classmate girl, “Do you have peepee?”
    Girl said sweetly, “No…but my mama said, what I have will attract many peepees.”
    Boy said, “Ok, I will ask my mama to give me what you have.”

    I want to find me, I want to know who am I: this seems to be quite an export-oriented business, surviving on the goodwill of well-fed, yet not mainstream, white seekers.

    If Osho would have been able to see the sudden growth of Punja ji and now few other gurus in the market, his pride would have taken a beating. Gurus without great oratory skills and Prophet-like clothes are also getting equally smart seekers from around the world.

    • lokesh says:

      Being a good talker has nothing to do with being a guru. Shantam, there is this thing called ‘silence’ going round. Try listening to it sometime if you come across it, say at the side of a mountain stream, or just after mama has changed your chuddies and the kitchen is all quiet, except for a pot of dal bubbling on the stove. In the background, mama sings a lullaby to you as she irons your chuddies, ‘om shanti shanti, shantamji messed his pantys’.

  10. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh, I am not that lucky to get such mama, as you describe. I feel envious with you sometime.
    As far as silence is concerned, for me it is most intense in the churches and chapels…Empty church, few candles, big brother photogenic brother on a cross and left side is standing all loving Mariam with a baby in the arms…

    It is a highly stretched idea that living master is carrying some kind of satellite antenna to communicate with disciples. Our adoration creates such mileu where it feels like some communication with Silence.
    Surely a charismatic leader has different advantages than just looking at emptiness, listening to a battery-less portable radio….

  11. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh says:
    Shantam, did you ever actually meet Osho face-to-face and talk to him? It is vital that this be known.

  12. shantam prem says:

    Lokesh says:
    Shantam, did you ever actually meet Osho face-to-face and talk to him? It is vital that this be known.

    To answer this question, I remember the title I wish to give to my one of the books,
    “Even a blow job
    To a master
    Won’t lead to Nirvana”.

    Osho, the master of the recent times, must have spoken with hundreds of thousands of people in His journey, “How to impress and gather disciples”. As the time has shown, effect is not more than that euphoria which one feels after getting autograph from favourite singer.

    Billions of Buddhists and Christians down the history have not spoken or handshaked with the founders, yet have felt some connection, some effect in their life, because they went wholeheartedly into the teachings or devices.

    • lokesh says:

      Which means, of course, in Shantamspeak, that he, Shantam, the one who questions what kind of contact people had with Osho, never actually met and talked to Osho face-to-face. Hardly surprising, seeing as how his overloaded chuddies would have been giving off such a hum the sniffers would have keeled over.

  13. shantam prem says:

    Talking Osho face-to-face, what kind of qualification is this, Lokesh?
    I hope after getting some inspiration from you, one of Osho’s siblings can come forward, “How come these disciples claim to understand Osho? They don’t have the same holy DNA”.
    After all, blood is thicker than water!

    As part of my life history, from January 1987 till January 2005, India was Pune and Pune was Osho Ashram.

    • bodhi vartan says:

      Shantam Prem says:
      …As part of my life history, from January 1987 till January 2005, India was Pune and Pune was Osho Ashram.

      But then you missed his best period, which was from 1935-1948.

      Vartan

    • lokesh says:

      Well, Shantam, seeing as how you want to promote Osho’s vision, I’d say that having looked the man directly in the eye might be an asset in that department. Then again, I looked into Osho’s eyes a number of times and I cannot honestly say what Osho’s vision is. Perhaps I’m someone who is preoccupied with his own vision rather than that of others. Maybe I need glasses. If I get confused I can always repeat that trusty sannyas mantra; ‘Life is a mystery to be lived….’ Oh dear, I’ve forgotten the second part…ah well, probably wasn’t that important anyway. That’s the thing…anything you can forget is not the truth.

  14. Never mind says:

    Anyone gets tired of repetition but this is not the case with Shri Rajneesh: he is a one who concerns more with element, I suppose! But the listener to him is not knowing the element as is the nature of element…

    See! Many a time I myself was reminded by him when he asserts, yet despite the fact that it doesn’t need to be said more, least to my person!!! Yet I often hear – I AM GOING TO STOP SPEAKING – IN MIDDLE OF A SENTENCE!

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