Nepalis choose to live in a commune
by Kushal Regmi December 20, 2008
(Originally published in GroundReport and republished here at the author’s request.)
“I will not make a private house,” declares Anil Nepal, a consultant engineer, who has spent ten years of his life living in a commune.
Joint families have become a thing of the past and nuclear families are the accepted way to go as far as families are concerned in today’s Nepal, but few individuals, like Anil, are opting for alternative ways of living that suite their own lifestyle.
Anil tired of a variety of lifestyles before deciding that commune was the best form of family for him.
After finding that he was a misfit in the joint family where he grew up, he opted to live alone in a flat.
But staying alone wasn’t the solution either. He realized that a human being needs a social support system to lead a healthy life.
Staying alone in Kathmandu as a young professional meant that his circle of friends had a great influence in his lifestyle. Thus smoking and drinking in a regular basis became his way of life even if he hadn’t consciously desired it. This is when he encountered meditation and a commune lifestyle in the form of Osho Tapoban.
“I knew I had had enough of that way of life when my body started becoming allergic to drinking and smoking. I needed a more natural lifestyle, which I had found in Tapoban, but I still wasn’t ready to commit to actually staying there because my habits demanded a different lifestyle,” as he recounts a phase in his live which he has left far behind.
Anil finally had to decide which way to take, whether he wanted to continue the lifestyle of his peers or completely change his way of life.
“I moved to Tapoban, because the milieu there was what was required for my spiritual growth. I was possessed with the quest to realize who I was. Slowly I began to realize that I needed to purify my body, mind and emotions to go deeper into meditation and it was not possible without a spiritual commune and at that time, Tapoban was my only option,” Says Anil, who looks like he is very much at ease with himself.
There have been many communes of various forms around the world in the last century. Artists, poets, writers, hippies, communists all tried their hands at commune living, but hardly do we hear a success story. Either the communes were authoritarian in nature and with the fall of the system that implemented it, the commune fell as well, or it broke up due to internal feuds or external intolerance.
“The average age of most communes till today is probably only five to seven years,” says Swami Anand Arun, coordinator of Osho Tapoban and Anil’s mentor, who has been, surprisingly, running a commune for the last 18 years against all odds.
The breaking up of traditional family systems and the isolation of the individuals caused by the demands of the post modern era has meant that people are wanting a social support system that suites and aids their own priorities in life. Anil was lucky to find a space that supported the lifestyle he wanted for himself and for him, the base of the commune he lives in has to be meditation but are communes that are not spiritually inclined possible as well?
“People can come and live together if there is a uniting cause that is the most important thing in the lives of the ones who form the commune,” shares Swami Arun from his experience.
“Apart from that, it is also very important to have a uniting figure who has the capacity to keep things together despite major ego conflicts and also the commune should be able to generate its own finances,” he adds.
So according to Swami Arun, dancers can live together in a commune but their passion for dance has to surpass all else and they must have a mentor who is mature enough to gain the trust of the lot and keep them united.
For this evolving humanity, which is getting even more individualistic by the moment, this type of living might be a plausible option. People who prize their freedom tend to go astray in life and end up as social misfits because they don’t get a support system that respects their individual freedom. But Swami Arun, after a lifetime of experience with running communes knows of the difficulties that come along with the task.
“Communes are bound to fail, because humans can neither live alone nor can they live together. To keep a commune running has been the greatest challenge of my life,” he states pensively.
It seems that only when civilization matures to a certain degree, can communes that respect and aid individual freedom be possible. As for Anil, who doesn’t live in Tapoban anymore and doesn’t want to live in a private house either, life presents a challenge, and that too a difficult one. Currently, apart from his consultancy work at Ithari, in eastern Nepal, he is running weekend meditation camps in various towns in the area. We can only wait and see what plans existence has for him in the coming years.
What’s wrong with living alone?
Most of the “great” Masters did that one way or the other, especially in their pre-enlightenment days. Even those who lived in communes post-enlightenment like Buddha and Osho always said they were basically guesting hermits, not communards. Osho famously said in Pune one that he would not have come within a hundred miles of the commune, when he was on the path!!
In “spiritual” communes there is of course one important point not discussed here. The so-called “Buddhafield”. This is supposed to represent a multiplier effect in which disciples can speed up their growth.
However, arguably, as Arun says above a successful commune demands some kind of unqualified embrace of a “leader” I very much doubt that. freedom from the fascist impulse, either surrender to it or creating it around oneself, can be achieved in communes. And that freedom is the beginning and end of all real personal growth.
the nuclear family and people living in smaller units,down to one,largely came about because the extended famly situation with all those big brothers beating you up,,mother in laws nagging and the big bald bloke at the end of the table,shouting and threatening you was driving sensitive people bonkers!
suddenly,they had the cash and opportunity ,like anil,to get away.
so they got away
now they want the family support without the hassle.
but end up with a whole bunch of mothers in law,nagging them to get enlightened,and big brothers “smashing their egos”
ouch!
we wanted the black without the white
the good without the bad
the yin without the yang.
it dont work.
and the big bald bloke at the end of the table doesnt go away.
the more freedom you want,the bigger he gets !
uh oh…i smell a frankalitus attack!!!
Hera…litus
first, i even did a search on this page on the word “leader” that you quoted, and if people are lazy they migh think your quotin Sw. Arun or the article. However, its only you that used the word!
A uniting figure can be Osho or Osho’s vision and a good management team. The word used was “figure”, and that could take many shapes.
Dude, you have such an open mind and regard for people like Tyohar who claim enlightenment, and when it comes to Sw. Arun, (who has never claimed a levetated spiritual status) and Osho Tapoban, you are a complete ignoranus!
The Buddhafield cant be philosophized with you unfortunately because your critique doesn’t come from any direct experience with Osho Tapoban. This makes you hard to take seriously because any who has even understood an ounce of Osho, would understand how bias and prejudice work.
Frankie dear,
Cheers!
Ah the Swami Amrito…. listen awhile….
I experienced communes a plenty, including those with Osho as the visiting guest, Rajneeshpuram, Pune one, Medina et al, Arun’s communes are based on the Pune one model. I am not against what Arun does, good luck to him. I dont think he is dangerous, people are free to come and go, they choose to be in his commune.
However as I have lived in so-called Budhhafields I certainly have a right to criticise them, and their presuppositions for growth. In particular their elitist notions over the genuine spiritual recluses, both historical and present, who make a lot more progress in the furnace of self-examination.
I suspect that though you are an Arun supporter, my dear Amrito, you have not lived in a commune situation with him or anyone else!
His commune does depend on his leadership as does Tyohar’s. In that respect they can both be prone, even though maybe not intended, to the covert attacks of subtle psychological fascism, even if in mild forms.
If I may say so Amrito, I dont really consider your responses here or elsewhere, generally speaking, very considered, You are I think a young man, but wisdom does sometimes have the blueprint of age, and it is worth listening to if it does, rather than mock it.
I can’t speak of age ofcourse, I’m stuck as I am—a 22 year old. I can’t say what I’ll be like when I’m 23, and I can;t remeber what I was like when I was 13! So ofcourse, I agree, age changes us all–but the way it changes every individual is certainly unique.
I can’t comment on the way your age has changed you, and the lessons of life that you’ve learned. I’m sure when you were 22, you were not the same 22 year old that I am. So how can I even compare the lessons of your life to mine—they are in completely different paradigms!
Perhaps a sharing of understanding is being discussed here, and in the nature of discussion boards: most responses are of a mocking nature n e ways. It would be different if we discussed these issues face to face, and we could cue into each other a bit deeper.
When you were in the midst of the Osho caravan, I’m sure you have had real diamonds of experience. Unfortunately I can’t regress back in time, but I can try to absorb what Osho is today. One of the ways meditation can be available are through large growth centers like Osho Tapoban and the Osho Resort.
People come, they absorb, they go, and they release. And, because a few people go on a few power trips (an inevitable reality in any group-dynamic situation), we cannot discount the valuable nature of meditation communes and centers. I’ve met more positive people than negative, including myself, whom have benefitted from the existence of these communes.
So instead of mocking age and what you consider your “wisdom”, I still insist you don’t stop experiencing communes, expecially Tapoban.
As with any thing…there are horses for courses! And there are many kind of communities…osho community being one of the many! I dont think community living is a must…..its neither good nor bad!
But its not a must to live in community….Did osho live in a community before his enlightenment? No. Did Ramana Maharishi live in community before his enlightenment? No.
learning is in everyday living…….and living is happening everywhere…..wherever there is life there is learning…..or shall i say oppurtunity for learning…….learning being unlearning too…
and one does not need to follow osho or anybody for that…..
Yes its nice to have sanctuary of peace and quiet..where one can go and relax and sit silently or whatever but the truth lies is everyday living…….in relationships…its in a mirroring of relationships…for which one need not go anywhere…..its happening everyhere….wherever one is….
By the way……Not only Tyohar who claimed his enlightenement! even osho did too…….No body said he was enlightened…he himself declared it! May be Arun is not enlightened……thats why he hasnt declared it!
Last year when I saw in a front page of English Language Nepali newspaper in Kathmandu….Arun doing marriage ceremony of ‘sannyasins’ in commune! Looking almost like a traditional hindu priest!! Whats that about……..I mean in Osho commune and marriage?! sounds bit fishy……not only that the couple pictured were is proper Nepalese marriage attire……where is the rebelliousness in that? Wasnt Osho against marriage? Why this most devoted disciple of osho going against the Osho vision?
Not that I am against people marrying….neither am I against Nepalese dress.( i think they are beautiful….and our livelihood depended on those dressess because my parents were tailors)….
Its not following ….practicing…or repeating others.. whoever may that be…….that brings freedom….its the understanding…….its the truth that liberates….! and that truth is in everyday living…..
haha…philosophy guy.
How does it even matters you whether or not Arun Swami is enlightened! What would you do even if he was? What did you gain by being with Osho, whose enlightenment you wouldn’t doubt about.
I guess, its high time you learn something from Arun Swami, who’s helped many meditators have the first hand experience of the buddhafield rather than claming enlightenment and introducing some weird, self-designed meditation techniques (Something many Osho sanyasins are finding pleasure in)
And before you question the rebellious spirit of Arun Swami, let me know how many of you are still rebellious enough to carry on with Osho mala, let alone his courage to conduct meditation camps and give sanyass all over the world?
Beautiful Mudita, I ware my mala in an English Conservative bank. They are so conservative that no one even has dared to ask me even once what I ware! So amusing!
yes…the mala is one of Osho’s greatest meditation techniques.
I dont know why you guys feels so touchy about it when one questions Arun or Osho or something to do with sannyas….Do you want that no body question? Be like other religion…cult..where questioning is crushed? Look whats happening around in so called religion…muslims…hindus….do you want Osho to be like that?
Why this defensiveness?
For your information sister….I wear mala…and I run meditation class…not devised by me but osho….just kundalini and dynamic …sometime..vipassana…
But I dont wear mala everyday..just whenever I feel like..it! Wearing Mala is not a sign of rebellliousness for me…just a love for osho…
I dont care who is enlightened or not? its everybody’s right to be englightened…so if they want to declare it great..if they are fooling around even great for the show!
Mudita says…invention of weird meditations….I have not supporting all the hocus pocus….new agey stuff but even osho himself invented weird meditations…I mean look at dynamic meditation..its a weirdness par excellence……..
So if others are capable and know the secret of making new meditation why not? I love osho….i feel blessed…but he is not the last word….Nobody is the last for in the quest for truth….thats just the way to fanatism.
Osho’s teaching was changing and evovling all the time……its not a dogma….but why are you guys so interested in making it so…..
He was dead over 20yrs ago….in this twenty years world has changed immensely…….
In a way I like what osho resort is doing….taking off all the osho pictures…and others…I think its intelligent…at least they dont to make a god out of him…..Its a great work…
I hear that india they are even starting to call Osho…one of the avatar….what a bullshit!!
He is just human being obviously with immense intelligence…heart…and beyond..but there have been many who had touched that source…..even in his contmeporary life time…like J krishnamurti….and he was also human being…
What is rebellious is to understand oneself…in a process of everyday living…not following or mala of some guru or what not?
If you love to wear do it….but its hardly a must requirement for being rebellious!
I am really surprised or should i say shocked by the different colors that you shed through your “spectrum” Vista.
As a matter of fact why are you so TOUCHY about people being “touchy” when someone questions about Osho or Swami Arun. The time, the logic and the dexterity (of words… lol) that you express here to defend yourself only show that you are really being offended my friend.
Why this defensiveness?
You say “So if others are capable and know the secret of making new meditation why not?”
I m sure you love these Aum marathons, created by your so called capable people, where you shout “I HATE YOU” to your fellow participants. I m sure you love these new meditations created by these Osho Dhara folks, like five minutes shaking, five minutes breathing, five minutes jumping then silence… or you know this method of pressing your eyes very hardly and seeing the eternal light. Im sure you love that too. And they claim that if you pay them 25000 Rs you can become enlightened. You know the new method for the new era. If they know the “secret” Why not?
And my friend its not up to you to define
rebelliousness. Rebelliousness for all individuals is different according to their level of understanding and situation. I’m sure Ma Chetana above wears her Mala out of love for her master or she wouldnt swank it just to offend her conservative Bank colleages. This little expression of love could also be rebelliousness for her. However who am i to judge and who are you to judge?
You say “I wear mala…and I run meditation class…not devised by me but osho….just kundalini and dynamic …sometime..vipassana…”
Its really difficult to believe it dude! I mean you never had the courage to answer Amrito’s polite questions, “Share some more things, perhaps your experience with meeting Osho?
How about Osho Meditation Techniques? What is your experience with them?
Commune? Which ones were you in? Nepal, Pune or just a meditation Center? Do these help you?
It seems you have much to share, and I would love to hear about it.”
Why don’t you answer them now, we would really love to know.
I know what Vista is really TOUCHY about. Here are a few things our dear friend had to say….
“In a way I like what osho resort is doing….taking off all the osho pictures…and others…I think its intelligent…at least they dont to make a god out of him…..Its a great work…”
From The force is with Jayesh “May be Jayesh should use this oppurtunity…his experience of this horror…his escape…his feelings..thoughts…no-thoughts…going through…his being…share it in Osho times….also…print the relevent discourse by osho…in response to terrorism….and religion and politics…in forthcoming Osho times.”
i have some more options for you Vista, why not print it on Newsweek, Times, and lets not forget the Playboy…i love that magazine…
Just for the note….I dislike and abhore the OshoDhara thing….everything about it…its just pure exploitation and mockery….its just plain stupid to me……when i saw some of the video on youtube by these Oshodhara people…I just wanted to puke…and I hate spiritual authority anyway..but this Oshodhara is pure…stinker!!!
Brother Neerav…I am not touchy at all……
Ok Neerav….to Amritos question…..I came to find out osho accidentally through the old copy of paperbac book named ‘Nahi Ram Bin Thaow’. by Bhagwan shree Rajneesh….when I was around 13yrs old….at that time I just over heard conversation that my father was having with one of his colleague….’that he was sex guru…something like that’…..so when i found that book I was more excited that I will find something kinky…sexy stuff….to wank and relish…but when I started reading I was so surprised….to find so many amazing insight on women..society…being rebellious..religion! I love the joke he made about Ram lila….to this day i can remember and laugh! Because of religious and traditional structure of Nepalese society we were branded untouchable….and low caste…at that time we were not even allowed to touch public water tap….and there was much cruelity and social disdain upon us……Hence to me his rebellious statement and insights were empowering to me…..and his way of speaking were mesmerising…..
Years passed ….but in between I read lots of other authours….even I forgot about Osho completely…then one day I found osho times magazine…then on …..I started dynamic meditation Pokhara…which was really helpfull to me…..I have had some pretty hard time growing up in voilence filled family and social structure…..and dynamic meditation helped do lot of cahtarsis…..and kundalini too….
Yes I have been to Tapoban few times..I like the mileu of it..the natural surroundings…I used to love walking down the winding path that leads to the little stream there and sit silently……
I have lived in Osho commune before it was known as Resort….for over a year continously..worked…..I had mostly great experiencesthere and few bad experiences! I I was only 18 yrs when I was there…met some lovelies of people……on this earth….
Then after that i went to live in buddhist monastry as a monk but that did not last long….it was funny thing….
Yes I have done vipassana in Poona…in my own surroundings…and also with Goenka…..
Yeah I have done work and therapy with Veeresh…..and Yes the AUM too….I like it as a therapy definately…..
And I have done lots of other works too…
But Now for some years….Nothing…just everyday living…….working………
One of the beautiful experience in my life has been meeting with one person whom I happened to have met when I was working as a street cleaner. He had been cleaning street for long time……He didnt know anything about spirituality or osho or vipassana or anything…but all the two years I worked with him….He did his job so gracefully…cleaning dog poo…collecting rubbish….sweeping street…never complained….he had smiles in his face…and gratitude to life…..from then on ….was a another turning point in my life…He walys had time for people…and he listened……He to me was remarkable master…a human being..I have met.
No, I have not met in Osho physically….I was too young when he was around…..
alot of gratitude is shared towards Sw. Anand Arun because of his efforts to make Osho widely available in Nepal. In fact one time he was arrested for selling Osho books at one point:
http://www.sannyasnews.com/Articles/Interview3.html
My dad actually lived with Sw.Anand Arun in Nepal when he ran Nepal’s first meditation center. He told me about how Sw. Arun started it in his own bedroom because his parents didn’t allow any bigger space. Osho actually instructed Sw. Arun to start it there and not be worried.
So its like this, when a bird is born and sees the world for the first time, the first object it sees is imprinted as the mother.
For many people who have not met Osho, but have been introduced to Osho by Sw. Anand Arun, they have great love and gratitude towards him. This is not Sw. Anand Arun’s fault, its simply a heartfelt thank you to him for introducing Osho.
So the book you read, and it doesn’t matter really, could have been only because of Sw. Arun’s persistence in making Osho available in Nepal.
Thank You Vista, for finally sharing some of your experiences.
You said in your earlier post, on the other topic
“i have met some great lovely human beings……including osho himself.”
So, I take it that you’ve met him in some other way, other than physical rite? Or what’s the philosophy behind this previous statement because you now say you haven’t met Osho.
Both things don’t really matter, except for the fact it is misleading to those who may read your comments here.
Its great you have your own opinion on Osho and his work, and you support the Resort’s removal of Osho’s photos (and they havent removed every single photo-but many). BUT, would you enforce your belief-system on the entire sannyasworld and say no center should keep Osho photos (in fact, the guidelines on Osho.com say Osho photos before 1981 should not be displayed—and only ones with a hat).
Soo where is the non-religious attitude in this if you are so speculative and inquiring?
Listen, I still love the ashram in Pune and will go again and again because the energy there is awesome—but lets no compare apples and oranges. Pune can do what it wants and Tapoban is doing somethng different (in a way this truly spreads Osho’s vision).
But, as Sw. Neerav says, re-formulating meditations from any abcd swami, shouldn’t be readily accepted just because Osho himself made new mediatation techniques. You’ll have to understand, a master like Osho is now one of India’s greatest sources of information for so-called gurus. In the west, they are more better at rebranding the Osho message and they cite him here and there.
It sounds great and non-fanatical to say, Osho is enlightened, Ramana is enlighted, and there may be others who are enlightened, so why not encorporate all enlightened masters?
Osho himself stayed away from other enlightened masters and they too in return—because, each master has their unique way of getting the message accross—it can’t be hotchpotch. Buddha never embraced Mahavira to make a merger Jain-buddhism–Juddhism?
So, although some of your ideas sound very open and proggressive, you don’t know the reprecussions of them!! Osho makes all the masters available from the past, but he never propogated in creating a unity church!
N e how, making spaces available for meditation, and having a movement of “meditation centers” is very beneficial to many people. And since Sw. Arun came to Canada alot of good things are happening: meditation.
http://www.osadhana.com
The latest Osho Meditation Celebration.
By the way Neerav, in AUM meditative therapy….one the ‘I hate you’ is just one of the cathartic stage….there is also a stage where one says ‘I love you’ to the all the participants. …its a part of cathartic process…..and it does work…..
Yes, I see some people make even Veeresh some kind of messiah…..again same bullshit! I am not into that kinda thing!
For example…if you are in unknown place…you are lost…then you ask somebody for way….if they show you the way…..because he lives there…knows the place…you dont go one worshiping and making ideal out of that person do you? one just gives heartfelt thanks and move on!……same is with inner world….yes as with every area in life…some have moved further….and they show the way…yes they deserve thanks….i have gratitudes for them,,..but to carry them around…looking at them all the time…worshipping…This to me is sheer foolishness…
I m glad that the Aum “veeresh” therapy was good for you Vista.
However , i dont think throwing out your catharsis on the other person is beneficial at all, for the thrower or the reciever. The consequences of shouting “I HATE YOU” on a person is so destructively harmful that even if you continuously say “I LOVE YOU” later it doesnt heal or neutralize the harm done. It is a very primitive way of expressing and only helps in building more negative attitudes.
Osho never suggested dumping your catharsis on the person, why would he suggest the use of pillows or cushions. Moreover Osho never advised that an individual should do violent encounters more than two times referring to the harm that it does, which is not followed in Aum Social meditation.They keep on repeating it.
You can read the experiences of Alok John in previous posts where he tells how much destructive he thinks it is and how much harm it has done on him after participating in these Aum Social Meditations.
After reading the experiences of the participants i dont think i would ever want to participate in these techniques ever. To me it just sounds like a bogus technique designed by your.. like you say, “capable people who know the secret”.
Well Neerav, all I can say to you is dont make conclusions with what other people say….specially about the inner experiences…one cant follow other peoples data……
Yes, It might sound like dumping ones emotional rubbish on other people but its not really so….at the begining all participants are told not to take in…not to listen to the anger but just use and oppurtunity to reveal and encounter ones own anger and other negativity. No body is allowed to hurt or touch other person during the process. I suppose its a encounter style therapy. I mean on the second stage of dynamic meditation people go mad ….say things..throw out anger…in a room full of participant….isnt it. I mean one could say that its harmfull as there are other participant. Have you dont Encounter therapy or AUM marathon?
Basically, Its a therapy most suited for people living in western cut-throat environment, where emotional isolation…is almost order of the day! There is not at ease of reaching out with people…connecting…. Yes…it is helpful for that…..its does take you through deepest and strongest emotions that one tends to keep in control…
Yes. May be its true…one should not do these kind of catharsis too often….. Personally, I have done only few times a year in the gap of 4 or 5 months…It suffices me…..
There are always therapy junkies…..as we know it.
Yes I have read Alok John observation. Look people can make ego out of anything. It seems you live in Nepal right? In Tapoban? Are you Nepalese or…? If you were Nepalese…..you must have observed one fact that some among so called braminh caste…..who traditionally use to observe vegetarianism…’purity’….all other, are and were one of the most cruelist and egoist people one can meet….the cruelity they bestowed upon so called untouchables…in holier than attitude…..its a fact!
One cant take responsibilities of others experience but i can say for myself its been good…and positive experience even though during the process…..one has gone through lots of negative and difficult phases..
May be you should give at least one try…before you make conclusion.
Anyway….bro…what about you? tell me about your Journey….
Vista says, “all I can say to you is dont make conclusions with what other people say….specially about the inner experiences…one cant follow other peoples data……”
Well Vista, it sounds quiet phoney and decietful such an advice coming from you. I mean you are the one commenting on other people’s choice of wearing the mala, its you imposing ideas and giving lectures on rebeliousness, its you who has said that Tapoban people are blind followers with no intellegence, that tapoban people and swami Arun are turning Osho into an avatar, that they are pushy militant type people…..
with such conclusions its very double standard to give advices like that.
You say that nobody is allowed to hurt or touch anyone during Aum marathons… well its a very naive understanding that hurting can only be done physically… just because you are said not to take in the anger doent mean that there are no harmful impacts on an unconscious level … but such an understanding cannot be expected from someone who thinks hurting can only be done physically. …lol…
You compare dynamic meditation with these Aum “veeresh” technique. Thats very immature and i really dont think i need to give reasons for that. its very obvious that everybody understands why…..
You say “Basically, Its a therapy most suited for people living in western cut-throat environment”
I wonder why OSHO created the No-mind or the Mystic Rose or Chakra breathing or Mandala or even Dynamic…. these are cut- throat techniques for people from “cut-throat environments” Just read a few lines of what Osho has to say about these techniques…
You wanna know about my journey brother. My journey of sannyas is a kick ass wild journey bro. I took sannyas when I was 16 and now i am 20. Since i first came in contact with Osho its always been a wild crazy ride.
But still no matter how crazy or wild or a young a sannyasin I am, I am not so immature to do this Aum therapy. And I still call it on my own authority a BOGUS technique. Your long logics were just not strong enough to convince me bro. Maybe they were’nt genuine enough to be contagious. Do some more homework nexttime! LOL
my comments are awaiting moderation…
federation of the moderation
showed some aggression
to build a big nation…
but as they had no lay-son
they built a train station
that sold rotten tea
Hey Neerav…..LoL..
Well…all I can say is may be I hope one day…we can have cup of tea together and share…and communicate…face to face ….eye to eye…….
Its difficult to communicate anyway but with just words..I am sure there is a lot lost in translation…..
I am not here to win …or debate but it seems its not happening so its my last comment here..bye ..
LOL
good that you have understood my friend. good!
Neerav does that mean you dont know how to have friendly communication and sharing?
hahahahahhahahaha
couldnt help being offended huh. its really funny playing with you. I thought you were leaving and that it was your last comment. my brother breathe some fresh air… its not a matter of life and death.
OSHO!
sweet….lol…i am teasing you too….
Vista!
friends, now that my message has gone through moderation, please scroll up—well atleast Vista, and answer some follow up questions!
Cheers and happy new years!
Hey Amrito…do fire up the question…I shall endevour to answer….
Hey Amrito..do fire on your questions…I shall endevour to answer…..
hey vista, scroll up a little bit, its there!!
Chetna wrote :
“Beautiful Mudita, I ware my mala in an English Conservative bank. They are so conservative that no one even has dared to ask me even once what I ware! So amusing!”
But I think an English man could not get away with it.
Amrito wrote : “Listen, I still love the ashram in Pune and will go again and again because the energy there is awesome—but lets no compare apples and oranges.”
I only went to Pune once, but my experience was you walk through those gates and you are hit with a sledge-hammer of awareness. I probably won’t go back, just meditate at home, it was too much for me. I know one other person who felt similarly, but I think we are in a minority.
hey Alok, just so i understand what you just wrote a bit more, do you mean, the energy was too strong and you’d rather not go back or something else?
Yeah, I just found the energy extremely strong, I was aware of every thought all the time. It was not really pleasant. I once talked with someone else who worked at reception at Pune, and he said he would hesitate to go through the gates in the morning for similar reasons.
I hesitate to go back because I rather suspect I will have the same experience.
I just thought I’d mention it because I think this is a bit uncommon. I rather think it is due to some sin in a past life, but who knows of course
It also shows there is some supernatural energy there in Pune called awareness which is there in absolutely colossal quantities.
I always wondered about the reason and if the Old Boy was alive I’d ask him. I doubt if there is anyone on the planet today who knows.
Of course someone might say “Oh well it is just your mind and if you are not enjoying yourself, you should leave” but I suspect there is a bit more to it.
Hey Amrito…
Happy new year to you…
I was busy lately so I could not comment here promptly….
Yes….meditation centres are important…. Had there not been a meditation centre in Pokhara, I would not have been able to meet and meditate with friends…Yes it can be a meeting place for friends…who want to share the meditative space…..
Yes…I agree Tapoban and Resort are doing the work in their own ways….my only contention is lets not make osho another God..avatar…messiah …a saviour..he is not…he himself denied it in many of occasions…
I like the milue of Tapoban..its a great place….but i do have my reservation of Arun’s way of working…..He seems almost like any other hindu priest………
I havent seen the notice from resort saying that one should not put the photographs of osho before 1981 but if it is true it is silly….
Anyway one thing i have to agree is that…Osho was more potent and even more human..rebel..in those years…one just have to read the series The Rajneesh BIble..I am sure its published in another title now…There he demolishes all the religions…..the messiah…god…..paints the pictures of buddha as human being with intelligence…..
But then Osho was evolving all the time…..How many times he changed his names….anyway one cannot hangon to his words becoz he was demolishing himself all the time…
Thats where one goes wrong ..i think….every body tryign to compartmentlise Osho…..He is that elephant that blind people are trying to recognise …
Any way …I am not saying lets make a unity church….first i dont like any church..any spiritual authority….secondly unity is not to be made but felt….recognised….for the unity is already the case……
yes I accept the fact that all different masters doing their thing in their own way……and rightly so……
But can truth be recognised by following somebody…by worshiping somebody….?
I just read an article about terrorism by oshoworld…and there they comment that if every body did osho meditation then there will be no war….now this is childishness and ego gone beserk…. isnt that every religion says…follow us and you will be fine….all bullshit!
My contention here is hey lets not make osho some demi-god or god or avatara…..he has persuaded us…..he is pointing finger at the moon….and we are worshipping the finger and not looking at moon!
And that moon is life…..its inherent in all of us…..only you and me ….ourself can understand and liberate ourself….not by making osho or some other guru or what not…a messiah and leader!
And to make dead man a guru is very easy……there he is in peace and here we are fighting..over him! thats so silly..
I love osho…..I understand that we need a fucntional center to distribute his literature…his work….and also a place where friends can meet….and in this cut throat environment of daily living…its nice to have oasis…of peace and celebration where at least one can spend one or two hours a day…where one can be whatever one is ….doing catharsis or in silence…..
Now to…new gurus…
well…its everday’s birthright to be enlightened…apparently….so its good that it seems its the only egalaterian thing there is! Now who is to say who is false and who is not false? and its there right to declare themselves enlightened ..right.! Yes…..there might be more bogus then real one……and if some guru or who ever the fuck ..you think is false than speak against him….stand and declare…as osho did with so many gurus….as he used to say phoney gurus…
But here …the point is not who is false ro who is real?
the main thing and most important is…..is one sincere to oneself…is one peaceful….is one true to oneself…and in that very understanding…..one can say true from false……this is my understanding..
And…in one of the picture in your sadhana meditation place…..there is an alter with osho pics….the statue of feet…..the usual paraphernalia of what seems like hindu worshipping alter…there is osho photo of osho in dhoti…Not that it does not look beautifull…..but what i see is….are you trying to put old wine in new bottle…!
And i am not trying to put my belief on all sannyasins…first i dont have belief..secondly now i am not only interested in sannyasin but whole human being…all i am doing is sharing my understanding….hence inviting friends like you to discuss..and reveal…….I very much like the socratic tradition of dialogue…..which i think J krishnamurti with Dr. David Bohm done very well….in there discussions..
I saw some pics of Arun with his retinue in some pilgrimage or something in facebook…and there he was with his hindu tikka…getting blessings…and all with traditional lamp…..in another occasion doing marriage ceremony…..when osho himself demolishes…all these two things..so completely…… Do you think actually Arun is anti-osho…just as Pope is an antichrist…according to Osho? They seem to be doing there masters work but actually what they are doing is actually against them……I am not making allegations but questioning……please note the difference…as some friends here have habit of jumping to gun too quickly.
the foundation is being destroyed before its even built vista!!
yes its good to question and enquire, but look at Osho directly, his life and his work. Osho saw the love people had towards him from the very beginning and always described the relationship between him and his people as a love-affair.
Not a teacher student relationship, and even beyond master-desciple relationship—A Love Affair.
In sufism, the beloved dissolves into the divine, and trusts the divine, and ultimately is no more recognizable as who he was.
So yes, one can blindly worship and one can genuinely be in love…what;s the difference??? Theres a huge difference.
The first, blindworship, is skin-deep and routine, a chore…and it can be elaborated by whatsoever..
The latter is completely different. The desciple, lover, dissolves himself/herself completely for the master. But this is done with their own permission, their own trust–and perhaps a period of doubt and questioning.
But, how is anyone going to know what dissolving is if all they do is question every step of the way—its good within its limits but more than that, its merely philosophy.
I don’t speak to defend Sw. Arun, or anyone else for that matter. I think Sw. Arun is doing Osho’s work in the best way he has understood, and perhaps Pune in the best way they have understood.
But, I question your questioning of lovers of Osho who see no harm in dissolving into every fibre of their master. His photos, they are not merely just photos, but objects of meditation. Why would Osho just keep allowing photos and photos of himself? In Rajneeshpuram, even with Osho on the ranch, his photos were placed every where.
Many press reporters asked why people adore him, he simply said thats their business, so don’t interupt. His photos are as much of a meditation as his lectures, as his books, as his art, as his life.
But its difficult, you must be on a different path. And its completely ok to be—but being on a path means being aware of other paths. Many, including myself, have fallen in love with everything about Osho and if someone calls me obsessive, cultish, brainwashed—that’s their problem.
Again, Osho isn;’t a religion, so whether Sw. Arun where’s a tika on his head, how is he ‘dis-obeying Osho’. Your logic is flawed. If Osho isn’t a religion in the first place, than each to his own! The laughing sardar whom Osho loved, still wore his turban! Did Osho ever ban the turban ??
So, if Sw. Arun respects the hindu traditions, and because Osho has said in a few lectures “get rid of traditions”, should we suspect something is wrong? NO. Because is many other lectures Osho’s spoken about the spiritual side of pilgrimage, temples, hindu scriptures, jesus etc. Osho is available like energy, and words shouldn’t be debated scholastically.
I question whether you have already presumed a religious attitude towards Osho and have gotten stuck to his words rather than his energy!
and a point on marriage:
Let me restate that your logic is flawed because you pre-suppose a religion in place.
Osho certainly spoke against marriages, but did you know he also spoke in marriages?
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1832/88/13/732603565/n732603565_1155916_3267.jpg
Did you know when both my parents were married in 1982 that Osho sent a representative from Pune to inaugurate the wedding with a meditation camp?
Do you think Osho was a serious dude who kept a list of commandments about shoulds and should-nots?
NO.
(the pic is from the group Osho Visually Yours on facebook, if its inaccessible here).
So i have feeling we are venturing off into philosophy when we grab Osho quotes or paraphrase lectures to prove our points.
“stand and declare…as osho did”
Why as Osho did? I’ll do it like Amrito does!!
Vista wrote :
“I just read an article about terrorism by oshoworld…and there they comment that if every body did osho meditation then there will be no war….now this is childishness and ego gone beserk…. isnt that every religion says…follow us and you will be fine….all bullshit!”
But Osho meditations are really powerful. If everyone on the planet over eighteen did one osho meditation a day, yes, I think it is true, there would be no more war.
Alok….I agree Osho meditations are powerfull……but I think it will stop war…..
If it did…why then the shit happened in Ranch…specially from the very people who were the closest to osho…..or didnt they do any osho meditation!…Even the person who was closest to osho….fucked things up….and he says he didnt know about it..!
People were not doing meditations at the Ranch. They were working hard and partying.
it was a small minority as well, a group of 6-7 people and Sheela. And Sheela was known never to meditate and I read a book by one of the people within sheela’s troops and she admitted she didn’t meditate either.
So if there were about 3000 people at the ranch at maximum, than this small minority makes less than 1%. But smalls cracks have been known to bring down entire structures.
But no one was meditating. It was a very different atmosphere from Pune 1 or 2.
You were discouraged from meditating, it was considered rebellious and disruptive, which it would have been. People acquiesed to an authoritarian regime because it was fun living in the Commune and they wanted to see Osho in the drive-bys. “Never underestimate the stupidity of sannyasins.”
whatt!! really? That means there must be more people meditating now when Osho’s not in the body than ever before when he was in the body??!
But what about that huge hall in rajneeshpuram? Werent daily dynamic meditations still happening?Ive seen a few pics with close to a thousand people doing dynamic.
Do you mean silent meditation as apposed to active, or just ignoring the entire day of meditation altogether?
And was this happening in rajneeshpuram more or pune 1 or pune 2?
Interesting…
>>whatt!! really? That means there must be more people meditating now when Osho’s not in the body than ever before when he was in the body??!
Quite possibly.
>>But what about that huge hall in rajneeshpuram? Werent daily dynamic meditations still happening?Ive seen a few pics with close to a thousand people doing dynamic.
I believe there was no daily meditation program at rajneeshpuram. People were working 12 hour days. Sheela used to say “Work is worship.” But there were several festival days a year and also big annual summer festivals which sannyasins attended from all over the world. So that is probably the pics you have seen. They may have had a meditation program at the festivals.
>>Do you mean silent meditation as apposed to active, or just ignoring the entire day of meditation altogether?
The life at the Ranch was build around activity and work, not meditation.
>>And was this happening in rajneeshpuram more or pune 1 or pune 2?
At Pune 1 and 2, meditation was central with daily programs not so dissimilar to Pune of today.
You can download videos of the time at http://www.oshobuddha.com/discourses.htm
You can read about what Osho called ‘the fascist regime’ at Rajneeshpuram in a book by Tim Guest, ‘My life in Orange’, and ‘Diamond Days with Osho’ by Shunyo
No one was meditating in Rajneeshpuram. Everyone was working 12 hrs a day at the Ranch. Radha says the same in her book ‘Tantra’ and so does Shunyo. Some old sannyasins say that this was the reason why the Ranch came to such a dramatic end. The huge structures of the commune had no basic foundation.
So basically…..Osho….himself fucked it up then! After all the talks on meditation and meditations and meditations..he actually didnt give energy to basic thing what he talked about….. he actually misused other peoples money and energy and work and love and devotion and fucked it up….is that so?
Vista : “So basically…..Osho….himself fucked it up then!…”
Not really Vista, but it is all very complicated.
Basically he was always in a let-go, the nature of his enlightenment. So when Sheela pushed him to go and stay in America, He said “Okay Sheela.”
And when she bought the Ranch, and many sannyasins wanted to build a city rather than meditate, he allowed that to happen.
He had complete trust in existence and was always in a let-go; and always lived like that. It is strange and hard to understand.
I dont know, one time I was listening to one of Osho’s lectures prior to Rajneeshpuram and it put things into light…i’ll try to dig it up, but Osho was speaking Pune One about the Master’s work and how it was not consistent with society.
He said many techniques and therapies that he wanted to intoduce would never be allowed by society and its structure. He went on to say a Master never works to create success for himself or his structure, but to create opportunities for spiritual growth.
I spoke to someone who was in Pune One and was with Osho since the late 60s, and she had told me Osho used to tell some close sannyasins to create fabricated situations, Zen-like.
For example, He told one of his therapists to walk up to another sannyasin and slap him in the face–> a direct order from Osho. This created a situation, an experience, for growth that’s unlike any thing ever taught. Zen masters used to throw desciples out of windows to create situations!! Gurjieff once even had his desciples almost drown in water!
In this particular lecture Osho was talking about the commune and he used the word experiment over and over. He said, when people get so attached to the structure and him, he’ll take everything away. He said his way was not to be a Guru who is predictable, but a Master who would do anything to show truth.
No matter what, this truth will remain a mystery, but I feel Rajneeshpuram was simply a Master’s device for the growth of his sannyasins. I think Osho knew about Sheela all along and really did want to give sannyasin’s a taste of fascism.
Rajneeshpuram was as much a part of Osho’s teachings as his 500 books, and will remain for future seekers who go towards Osho. We know for sure Osho wasn’t planning on being a Saint in the eyes of society nor did he bother of what people thought of him.
So tasting Osho today, wouldn’t be the same without the rajneeshpuram crisis–and I find the taste refreshing. So if Osho did fuck things up, he must have seen how fucked everyone was anyways!!
Ohm!!
Hi Neerav,
I dont like when you say no-one was meditating at Rajneeshpruam. You totally misunderstand your Master.
Many of us were meditating in Rajneeshpuram, we called the meditation work, it was playful, demanding and most of all a constant reminder for awareness.
Formal meditation is actually just the beginning of awareness, only a 24 hour thing will get you to the beyond. Why is Arun stuck in this formal one hour meditation groove… it needs 24 hours, and that was what the Ranch experiment was all about for most of us, and many like me remain grateful for it, and count it as the most formative experience of our lives.
Just too interject—I believe Alok John, who was in Rajneeshpuram (i think), made that assertation first.
But I agree with you and Osho spoke about Work as Meditation many times. And, from listening and reading books from others who were there, this was definately happening.
I’m trying to find a video-documentary “Rajneeshpuram-An Experiment to Provoke God”. I think Viha has it!!
Its a shame a few small blemishes compared to the large strides and alternatives Rajneespuram was offering causes such a negative stigma in the world press!
It was in Tapoban in fact where I saw the first videos of Rajneeshpuram—Sw. Arun seemed to have loved his own experiences there!
No I was not in Rajneeshpuram, but I did visit Medina UK many times, where the emphasis was similarly “Work as Meditation.”
I agree there is such a thing as gaining awareness through work or group situations, though this has not been my way.
I do think many old sannyasins undervalue formal meditations. Basically they are quite demanding, and not everyone wants to do them.
“Work” as meditation can only follow for many seekers after a sometimes long acquaintance with so-called formal meditation. Like the many ranges of Osho meditations, which of course he in his turn culled from many traditions, but presented them with all the skills of an Alaistair Campbell. Of course when he introduced them little was known in the west of all the various eastern traditions of formal mediation he made interesting.
The problem for many sannyasins, and non sannyains is solely with the word “work”. I am sure Osho realised this when he authoirsed Sheela to bring in the word “Worship” instead. However sadly that was also a poor choice.
Play is a better word. A 24 hour hour play, then there is no distinction between when one is working or not working, consciousness just goes on 24 hours, and the watching arises slowly, and a Buddhafield where many were doing this did help. It could be contagious.
Rajneeshpuram an experiment to provoke God can be obtained I belive through Purnima, an English mail order and internet order website for Osho books, etc.
Though most people were into this experiment it was a total surprise for most of us that those in power (a relatively small number) were sadly not into it, and presumably did not understand it even. For that Osho must bear some responsibility.