Twenty two years ago today

It’s 10.30pm where I am, in Oz – and it’s the 19th January. Twenty two years ago on this same evening, some five hours earlier, I was sitting in the ashram gardens surrounded by mosquitos. I had not wanted to join the White Robe Celebrations that night. I had had a disturbing dream in the early hours of this day, from which I awoke in a sweat. I had dreamt that someone had killed Osho. That ‘they’ had killed him. The dream details are long gone. A river at night. A full moon. I watched the line of people being sniffed and entering the hall. I was very wired. Was it a full moon? I can’t remember. Something in the air. Besides mosquitos. All of a sudden there was an announcement that everyone should come into Buddha Hall. Amrito was going to … well, we all know what he said that evening. No doubt many of you were there. Hours passed – or was it eons. Down at the ghats – singing. The burning. The timelessless. The sense that this had happened before – that we were all here – before. The year 1990 meant nothing. It felt like 1290. Or 390.

A time out of joint – yet strangely – ‘here now’. Dawn broke over the river. The dawn of time. Red. Orange. Music, drumming, crying, laughing, singing. An ending – and yet a beginning. The gap. And my tears flowed. My god, the tears. Endless. I wasn’t celebrating and laughing and hugging. I was awash. I could have drowned the world. A few days later – emptied of tears – I danced for hours. Let the music never stop.

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58 Responses to Twenty two years ago today

  1. dharmen says:

    Comment originally posted by Arpana

    Rajni,
    This reads as much poetry as does the piece by Hakin Sanai
    posted by Roman.

  2. sannyasnews says:

    Very beautiful Rajni. Your experience of the ghats and afterwards – right on.

  3. shantam says:

    I don´t think Rajni is a celebrity therapist or some other high profile world traveler who would spread Osho´s work. Most probably, one of other thousands of seekers camping in Pune at that time, and as the beauty of her words shows, Osho has done His work quite well. He has put His seeds here and there….
    Let the music never stop….
    Though it has stopped…Almost all the sannyas songs and music pieces have their date of birth before 1999.

    • rajni says:

      Shantam- it’s true. I am not anyone ‘important’. Not a therapist or some ‘high profile’ traveller. Just a nobody – chopping wood, carrying water. I did not plan to send my post about Osho’s death. It happened. As did those tears. They welled up and overflowed. His death, after so many years of hard work trying to break down our conditioning, was, and still is, a tragedy. We can pretend otherwise. But once he has entered, perhaps through the back door, he remains. As do the tears. Not now of sadness but of grief. Grief that he was treated so badly and grief that he has now been colonised. Packaged and sanitised. Recently I have been listening – repeatedly – on an old cassette in my old car, to and fro from work -to Discourse Seven of ‘Be Still and Know’, in which he discusses Aristotelian thinking, and it’s grip on us. He also speaks of suicide and the abyss. Not easy listening. It is up to us to do the work. The work of a lifetime. Or a moment perhaps. In this very moment is the path. Nothing behind and nothing ahead. This very moment creates the path. And there are no guarantees. But what would I know. As you said, the seed has been planted. Either I water it or I don’t.

      • i don’t see it as a tragedy.. another step in human evolution or de-evolution.. i think the latter. yes, he was treated so badly, but the old man was an antagonist, he sought out confrontation.. what would you expect from the masses, who are in general, jealous, full of hate, competitive and definitely very shallow and animal-like? stay focused on how humans are in the real world, for only a handful have any intelligence existing in their brains. Osho was just another casualty of war. unbelievable- your pedestal that you put osho on, shows your denial, your unrelenting bias.. that he and only he shouldn’t have been treated the way he was treated.. now if you were to expand that reasoning to human in general.. there might be hope for us after all.

        • rajni says:

          JC – you say: “… your pedestal that you put osho on, shows your denial, your unrelenting bias.. that he and only he shouldn’t have been treated the way he was treated.. now if you were to expand that reasoning to human in general.. there might be hope for us after all.” Just because I was talking specifically about Osho in my post does not therefore mean that I was saying that that ‘only he’ was treated badly. I agree with a recent post from Roman that Osho’s treatment is a Human Rights issue. If you want me to discuss my involvement with Amnesty, or in fact Animal Rights, feel free to contact me.

          • animal rights… i feel if we treat ourselves with love and then others with love, then it will, by the very nature extend to animals, plants, and the earth.. when gov’t makes laws, for people to behave in a certain way, there will be rebels ready to do as they please.. not wanting to have their rights infringed upon. I don’t think nature or the cosmos gave most of us the ability to love unconditionally and to share that love with other creatures… otherwise, we would have been living that way for a long time- living one’s life in that way, if you can, is the best way for you to make a lasting mark and maybe help another person put in the effort to change their negative ways. So, animal rights groups such as PETA by their actions as i see, are full of shit and full of hypocrites who are seeking attention, no more.. in the states, over 80% of all dogs and cats are euthanized by the “humane” societies because they are taking up too much space, and so called progressives and hippies continue to breed their pets because they don’t believe in spaying or neutering their pets— so much for animal rights and humane society organizations and idiotic progressives.

  4. shantam says:

    Then And Now…
    A photo speaks thousand times better than words..
    http://epaper.sakaaltimes.com/SakaalTimes/20Jan2012/Normal/index.htm

  5. roman says:

    And so 22 years have passed and the photos bring back memories and perhaps prompt us to reflect where we are at today.
    Ma Prem Sambodhi ( Susan M.Clare) had this to say in “A Surprise Life – The Spiritual Journey of a Girl from Brooklyn” published in 2009. She uses Bhagwan instead of Osho as she didn’t visit Poona until 1999 after she left the ranch.
    “Bhagwan always taught that a living master was the only true master, and that his teachings become doctrine and dogma once he’s gone. I was lucky enough to have experienced a living master. I’m confident that had he contued to live, the building colors would have changed multiple times. Instead, we are stuck with what existed when he died, and his teachings are being interpreted and perpetuated by his most devoted and well-positioned disciples. Sound familiar?
    Already, barely twenty years after his death, there is a split between the Western sannyasins who run the Poona site as a resort, and the Indian sannyasins whose centre in Delhi mainly focuses on meditation. They also disagree over copyright issues, and the manner in which Bhagwan intended for his teachings to be lived and presented to the world. Other areas of contention are rumoured, but these are the only two I know of with certainty. This divisiveness is disheartening. It took Christianity three hundred years to evolve from a cult into a religion, and many hundreds of years more to divide into the countless sects currently in existence, losing the unity originally intended along the way as one molded the master’s teachings to fit its own particular leaning. I fear that with twenty-first century technology, Oshoism may evolve in the same way, only much more quickly.”

    Sambodhi was one of the final sannyasins to leave the ranch. She writes about the last months movingly. Her book was written over a long period and as I’ve mentioned she never visited Poona two whilst Osho was there physically hence she continued to use Bhagwan when refering to her master. Sambodhi says the following after visiting Osho’s Samadhi, “The energy phenomenon I experienced outside the gate was even more intense in that magnificent space, referred to as a Samadhi”.
    Samadhi left this planet in 2011. Any comments, thoughts, on what she has written?

    • alokjohn says:

      To be honest I am more optimistic than Roman or rajni. I think they are pessimistic because they expect things to happen too quickly. Pune is there for the long haul, 50 years, 100, 200 years. I do not think things there have really been sanitised; it is just that the young people are not as troubled as we baby boomers were. Quite possibly the Indian “religious” sannyas will die out as India becomes more westernised.

      • alokjohn says:

        I also think his murder was a bit inevitable. He said he expected it. as a world teacher it was somehow appropriate he should spend some time in the west of the USA.

        • satyadeva says:

          If in fact he was murdered…I guess one must be careful about this esp if somehow we might even want Osho to have been a ‘victim’, if that story somehow legitimises any grudge we might have against ‘the world’, ie somehow enhances any ‘victim-of-the-world’ identity’ we might entertain about ourselves.

      • Arpana says:

        Bravo.

        \(^o\) (/o^)/

    • tilopa says:

      Samadhi left this planet in 2011

      For mars?

  6. Parmartha says:

    Different wings of sannyas do consider that Osho was murdered. Certainly nailing Jesus to a wooden cross in the end meant the whole Roman empire became Christian, an obscure mystic courted death in a way that ensured word about him would get out, as Osho said to “every nook and cranny of the known world”.
    Given the various evidences on Osho’s death one is best to keep an open mind. Osho himself certainly thought, at least in some of his public lectures, that he had been poisoned by Ronald Reagen’s America.
    A sizeable minority of those who still call themselves sannyasins believe some kind of euthanasia went on.
    In Osho’s case, and in this age, one feels that Osho did reach, any which way, more or less everywhere he wanted to – at least by now.
    What seems important to me is the testimony of those who did know him more or less close up as disciples. For example Rajni, posting as an ordinary sannyasin here has made a couple of moving posts clearly direct from the heart but that make clear sense.
    I may not resonate with Rajni’s “dream” that Osho had been murdered that day 22 years ago, but I sure resonate with his (or her) daily drive into work, listening to “Be still and know” and the reminder over all those years that Osho’s discourses were not “easy listening” and their sub-text was always the constant battering to move into the now.

    • Arpana says:

      Someone mentioned Saul Alinsky recently, who I’d never heard of, so I went googling, as you do, and found these quotes, which resonated with my own understanding and experience, and the remark you made at the end of this comment.

      ‘Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear the most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and chance the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution.’
      p. xix

      ‘Men don’t like to step abruptly out of the security of familiar experience; they need a bridge to cross from their own experience to a new way. A revolutionary organizer must shake up the prevailing patterns of their lives — agitate, create disenchantment and discontent with the current values, to produce, if not a passion for change, at least a passive, affirmative, non-challenging climate.’

      Saul Alinsky

    • alokjohn says:

      I think the evidence is quite strong that he was murdered, and that you have to believe a host of implausible scenarios to avoid that conclusion.

      I am reminded a bit of Holocaust deniers. I mean…..no single person counted the bodies of the six million Jews murdered one by one. But the evidence is overwhelming that the Holocaust happened. It is said that Holocaust deniers have some sort of ulterior motive for their views. They would pick on small mistakes in the historiography and then try and build a a case out of them. I think it is a bit similar with people who deny Osho’s murder by the Americans, though I acknowledge the evidence is not quite as strong as that for the Holocaust.

      • i don’t think there is one shred of evidence that the old boy was murdered.. that stunt with his doctor showing off a pulled tooth of his and having it analyzed showing it had thallium, is very suspect. other than that we have the old boy’s allegations he was poisoned in jail… tall tales told to a gullible group of desperate, lonely, mentally challenged buffoons who need a christ-like figure to cling to after death, and a bogey man(U.S. gov’t) to hate. come on people show us some juicy facts, to support this theory, that Osho was wacked.

      • with the holocaust there was plenty of evidence- physical evidence and eyewitness evidence… with osho’s alleged murder there are no witnesses, no one saw anyone taint the old boy’s food, as is alleged by osho himself- so we have to take his word for it? what other allegations did he make? that HIV would be the next great plague- hasn’t panned out… that Gautama the buddha, took over his body and osho decided to kick him out because he didn’t like osho’s Rolls Royces? don’t think so. just read through every book that was published and you can find many things in each book that osho claims to be true, but in fact are tall tales, for entertainment use only.. perhaps each book should have a disclaimer printed on the front stating that. As for the physical proof.. also, a claim made by osho’s Dr. with tooth in hand… bold statements with no collaborative evidence, such as testing done by an outside, neutral laboratory… but no, they rely on us taking their word for it… making such claims not too long after the ranch disaster- where we took osho, and sheela at their word, makes it more amazing that they would think people would take them at their word again… and they were right for the most part.. fools will be fools, idiots will remain idiots… sounds very much like a wife that sticks around for more abuse from her husband, too afraid to start afresh, too dopey to think of another life without her spouse.. so she stays and in my opinion, gets what she deserves.

  7. shantam says:

    Alok John, i can understand why you are more optimistic than Roman or rajni. And also you think they are pessimistic because they expect things to happen too quickly.
    The reason can lie in the fact, ” People who buy penny shares are more optimstic than the people who purchsed them at the Blue chip price.
    And you say, Pune is there for the long haul, 50 years, 100, 200 years..
    It can be, but tell us one thing, who is going to be the policy maker after 12, 20 years. Do you think some son or brother of Bashar Al Assad!
    The present kitchen cabinet surely can claim that they were hand picked by Osho, therefore they know it better whether to pour water or Coca cola light on the seeds planted by Him?

  8. Roman says:

    My entry was neither optimistic or pessimistic. I used a quote from Sambodhi’s book ( apologies for referring to her as Samadhi in my last line – she obviously visited Osho’s samadhi ). At no stage did I state my position. I thought the Sambodhi quote would prompt such discussion. Speed reading is useful but Osho didn’t just speed read. He meticulously marked passages in books he read with little dots along the columns. I found this very moving having seen some of these passages. As for Rajni’s dream I thought it implied that Osho was murdered in the States. Rajni would have to comment on that.

    • Roman says:

      There are obviously contested positions on whether Osho was murdered in the States and solid evidence is what counts. On the hand the Shoah was pretty hard to conceal with so many numbers. David Irving is obviously not an historian when it comes to the holocaust and should not be treated as such. History will always be contested and I do find it interesting that ‘The Rajneesh Chronicles – The True story of the Cult that unleashed the first Act of Bio-Terrorism on U.S Soil’ edited by Win McCormack has been republished.
      McCormack is very active in Oregonian politics and the promotion of the book points out that the Rajneesh Cult sought to kill two thirds of the human race through the aids virus.
      Surely this is a very contested position and not just a lovely little story? McCormack obviously has his reasons for wanting the book republished and Charles Turner and company would be delighted.
      Some things are stranger than fiction? There’s a lot more to say on the issues that have been raised.

      • Roman says:

        ‘The Chronicles’ I believe have been given an award by the University of Kansas. Well obviously some poweful people in the United States have an agenda. History written by the winners? Osho exposed the corruption that happened at the ranch and he was ignored. Sheela, Shanti B and Co were responsible for major crimes and get such light sentences. Shanti B has written a book titled ‘I was a Rajneeshi’. She is given a suspended sentence years later for her plot to kill Turner so she can be with her son who is dying of cancer. In interviews on television it seems that her Catholic upbringing led her to Osho. The big bad ‘Bhagwan’ is all at fault. Wasn’t she an active agent in attempting to murder Amrito and the other crimes she was involced in?
        The American Government wanted Osho but Turner even said they had nothing on him except two trumped up charges. A bomb left in the court of Oregon while Osho is awaiting trial. Life is stranger than fiction. Max Brecher’s( a non-sanyasin) ‘A Passage to America’ certainly has a a few things to say about Osho’s time in the States and what happened to him. His time alone in Oklahoma jail when he was simply supposed to be moved from Charlotte to Seattle. Wasn’t there then an opportunity to put thalium in Osho’s food? As for laughing gase well I don’t think the plan was wayed down by canisters of laughing gas on Osho’s world tour not from people I’ve spoken to! Osho also gave some of the most inspiring discoures I ever listened to in Poona two. Here was a human being in control of his faculties right up until he left this planet.

        • osho didn’t expose the corruption to do us a favor- it was to save his own ass– and his responsibility- or lack of, in all of it. he was neck deep in what was happening, and quite frankly, i have great doubts that he didn’t know that his house was bugged. Even more of a martyr you guys keep painting osho. some twisted reasoning you have.

  9. shantam says:

    If you want to kill a poet, edit his poems in a way, so they read like prose.
    It will always remain in the gossips without any concrete proof, whether Osho was given poison during his stay in prison or His doctors put the thought in His brain.
    In both the cases, one can rely upon circumstantial evidence. In spite of all the modern IT break through of last 3 decades, where porn and spirituality can flow freely through the wires, America is still a Bible thumping country. At Osho´s times, it was even more so. Therefore one should not doubt that some American will not use his position to eliminate this Anti Christ in the most scientific manner.
    Question for the disciples is not to have the blame finger on USA all the time but to think what we have done with the vision we became initiated into. Whether we have created a better world without Osho´s physical presence or a world where the under current of rivalry, jealousy and intrigue plays a dominant role. Just by calling a new age cult Resort will not white wash the strains of a broken glass.
    Tell me a single Osho´s sannyas based institution, organisation, school, club, disco etc. which is surviving and sustaining because of the patterns of good will?
    This will show, whether poetry has turned into vision or reduced to easy to understand prose..

  10. Preetam says:

    That sounds familial, sannyas conditioning. For the better sannysworld first Monsanto
    should be stopt in India.

    • Roman says:

      Preetam, so -what do you think happened to him? Where do you get your information from?
      For me it is a question of human rights, which one of Osho’s closest disciples Vasant Joshi pointed out in ‘The Luminous Rebel – Life Story of a Maverick Mystic’ published 2010. Joshi had a personal darshan with Osho on the 25 June in 1989 in Osho’s breakfast room. Osho details to Joshi what happened when a six hour flight became a 12 day experience in prison. He was jailed under the name of David Washington, his attorneys not knowing his whereabouts. Is Joshi, a man of integrity, lying?
      What about Maneesha, Anando and Amrito, who have all written books on what happened? Are they lying? Are they deluded? Or perhaps they are just being honest here?
      What about specimens of blood, urine samples and hair of Osho being sent off to medical
      experts in England and Germany, supporting findings of thalium poisoning? Are these all lies? Why would they kill Osho? Tom Robbins, a non-sannyasin and author, has given some pretty good reasons. Is he too, delusional? It was, after all, Osho who called in the police after Sheela fled. Once he knew that there was a murder attempt on Amrito he took action.
      What about the trumped up charges? US Attorney General Meese said he wanted ‘that man’ back in India and never heard of again. Non-sannyasin lawyers defending Osho were amazed at the whole circus. One referred to it as a crucifixion. The bomb planted in the Oregon court house just before the proceedings. Was that made up?
      So Osho is enlightened and he is not lying on this matter or is he delusional, and those who believe him are also delusional, or perhaps he’s a crook and those with him are also crooks…? I accept what Osho, Joshi and the rest have said on this matter.
      We will never have the facts 100% but it obviously would need someone to do a lot of investigation and it would be expensive. Perhaps someone one day, in the future, in the US, will reveal more?
      It isn’t delusional to accept that there was foul play. I’ve just read Tariq Ali and Oliver Stone’s book ‘On History’ which is about the rise and fall of the United States and its Empire in the 20th century where standard narratives are ripped apart. A new biography on Malcolm X is also very revealing. He was called the ‘Devil’ in prison but became a ‘diamond’ before being murdered. He too was screwed around by those he held in high esteem. It isn’t a waste of time to do historical research.
      The past is never dead and is always open to interpretations. I have my own personal relationship with Osho but in this particular matter I’m reminded of so many mystics who have been killed and people like Martin Luther King and Gandhi also come to mind.
      Why does this continually happen? Why was Socrates executed? He ‘corrupted the youth of Athens’, taught the young not to worship false gods. This issue of how Osho died has nothing to do with sannyas and victimization. It is much bigger than that; it is a human rights issue – not ‘sannyas conditioning’.

      • Arpana says:

        Brilliant and succinct summing up Roman. (Would love to be able to write like this. )

        A point.

        How could Osho of all people not have known the likely outcome of the vilifying, denigrating, name calling he got into of Reagan, the American Government, American Christian fundamentalists.

        We start to learn that calling people names can have an adverse effect about five don’t we?

        People commit murder in the name of honor because of a verbal slur.

        How can Osho not have know something like this would happen. I’m not saying that makes it right, just that he must have known broadly speaking.

        Did he want to be martyred?

        How can this most conscience human being not have known broadly what would happen if he stepped back and allowed Sheela her head.(Or anyone else for that matter. )

        How can he not have known the broad outcome of his actions and inactions.
        I am convinced he did.
        That the outcome is broadly as he wanted.
        He didn’t design for the specifics, like the poisoning etc, but he designed for the broad sweep of events.

        I always trust his intentions.

        • satyadeva says:

          Well, isn’t it conceivable that he was simply out of his depth living in the West? That might sound like ‘heresy’ to some or a lot of people but it’s worth considering. India he knew well and could cope with, but America…
          One thing to have read all the books, another to deal with the social and political realities of a powerful foreign land.

          His dodgy health and retreat into silence might not have helped either.

          • Arpana says:

            Yes of course.
            An effective broad sweep strategy would have to include responding to unforeseeable events; and he said himself he wasn’t infallible. (Might have been lying about that as well. Lol.) and presumably a really effective strategy would have taken account of weaknesses, but he must have had his weak spots.

            I made this note in my journal a few days ago.
            Might flesh out my point.

            Osho teaches, if you will, perfectionism, a perfectionism that contains all contradictions, and so to be perfect for Osho is to celebrate, accept imperfection, because ‘imperfection’ is part of Osho’s perfection.

            I don’t see you’re view as inimical to mine. The whole truth is a million times bigger than our individual to collective mass viewpoints and presumably includes them,.

          • he supposedly told sheela as he arrived at the ranch for the first time- that she must of had her head up her ass when she bought the place. no, i don’t believe he was out of his element… didn’t he bail from india because of a huge tax bill and all the bribes they were paying the politicians didn’t do the trick? cope with india- no- he couldn’t cope with parting with his money and Rolls Royces to the indian politicians. So- off to America– where dreams come true, and money to be made without paying as much in taxes…. oops- he hired the wrong people to run the company- that, my noble sannyasins, was his biggest mistake- he should have fired the lot when things started to go bad.. nip it in the bud, as they say.. back to business management school- for “Re-education”.

      • Preetam says:

        Have not said that any of them is lying, if they sincere me dont know.

        Its very clear why this again and again happens, always the same Handwrighting in Human History. Looking little more for Symbols you will find.

      • alokjohn says:

        Roman, you are correct about Osho. There is just too much evidence. Perhaps Parmartha has not read the books you mention.

      • i beg to differ with you Roman.. you state “… urine samples and hair of osho being sent off… supporting findings of thallium poisoning?” As i said previously, what labs, reliable, neutral(unbiased), a “split” sample as experts called it, one sent to the party’s choosing, another to a non- affiliated lab. Sannyasins were/are notorious in lying, cheating, back stabbing, ass kissing, card stacking, manipulating people and events.. You clowns are like hypnotized chimps. so sad to hear it still. As for these books that some of the inner circle have published… published for self interest and a shield from personal responsibility for their actions during that time. There have a couple of sannyasins who were probably even closer to osho than the innercircle characters who have posted here on SN and have stated there was more shit going on at the ranch with osho’s knowledge and blessing that would leave your hair standing on end. you admit to Edwin Meese’s statement- he just wanted the old man back in India.. He wasn’t even worth the time to prosecute… even more tid bits— a young man who i met, some 20 years ago, who actually he sought me out at a Bio-dynamic farm i was working at, told me that during that time the reagan administration wanted osho out because his ambassador to the U.N. Jeanne Kirkpatrick’s son was a sannyasin working and living at the ranch at that time- he’s a tibetan lama today. They didn’t want that to be known publicly because it would have been a blot on their christian conservative agenda and ruin their chances politically in upcoming elections. The guy who told me this, was working for the Bill Clinton presidential campaign and the campaign was seriously considering using that for a smear campaign against then president George Bush. He told me a deal was struck with the higher ups at the ranch and with those arrested(Sheela and co.) for them to keep their mouths shut in exchange for very light sentences for them and deportation for Osho. This is as close to insider info without hearing it from the “horse’s mouth”.. so i believe it to be true. Politicians are scumbags. Don’t ever trust them.. Prosecutor Turner is a political appointee, Edwin Meese, the same, and also a crook i believe, i feel the same for Joshi, Maneesha, Anando, Amrito, Sheela, Shanti B, Homa, Susheela.. the list is almost endless.. and just because they’ve got a mala around their necks doesn’t make them any less a politician. keep on believing the assassination farcical – your time is a wasting, not mine.. but i’ve been on a similar head trip as yours and others, but since the ranch, i’ve learned to be open to all possibilities and try to be a realist.. something that can’t be said for most sannyasins.

      • Oliver Stone?- perhaps the biggest drama queen director, writer Hollywood has ever produced.. have you by chance ever watch his movies, in my opinion, he makes shit up as he goes along.. i wouldn’t be bothered reading any more of his books.. his calling is directing morning T.V. soap operas, not writing books or $100 million movies… take his statements with a laugh along with a grain of salt-and a shot of tequila.

      • rajni says:

        Roman. I agree with you here wholeheartedly. Activists are being killed/have always been ‘removed’, all around the world – for the crime of speaking up. For telling it like it is – for seeking social justice: the Sicilian magistrates blown apart for daring to do battle with the Mafia; the poverty stricken activists murdered for fighting the destruction of the Amazon jungle; the child brides in Afghanistan forced into prostitution by their husbands – the list is long and is added to every day. You mention Martin Luther King, Gandhi and Socrates. And then there is Osho. Being outraged about what happened to him has nothing to do with ‘sannyas and victimization’, as you quietly and concisely point out. It is good to read an intelligent ‘response’ and not simply a ‘reaction’. It is all too easy on this site to be tempted to hurl a swift reaction at some of the postings. I have done so myself. Apologies Teertha for calling you, some time back, the ‘gate-keeper’…

  11. Preetam says:

    So far so good, extreme sides of Osho and commune. R. makes Osho an enlightend victim and J. makes an Indian in US.

    Let me make a story of: A Planet in Brahmans Univers. On this Planet since thousand of years the beings do not find freedom. Even if this planet are being managing all of them.

    But there is a group of sworn in people with absolute commitent for only one very old Order. This Order is moulded after so many years, and the people having no living experience of what they aim. But still they feel depate as the only ones ruling Humanity and worlds dominator.

    So, Mr. White. and Mr. Black. part of an conspire group. They destabilize group patterns which can become a problem for ruling Order, as Osho teachings can for sure become. What they are doing is a very easy thing. Each taking position on opposite side. Starting argue out of there standpoint, only devoted this one order. They keep going argueing, and once in a while they give little conclusions. But the conclusion coming from that old order. Easy, this scheme works since hundrets of years of.

    The problem, we dont have an authentic experience of our “Self”. As the experience has happend, wonder change into certainty. This moment that group looses all its dead Power of repressing and enslave Humanity.

    Making of Osho an untouchable enlightend, out of reach, helps these people keeping power, same as making Osho a guru in US, both is weakening his attempt. His try helping experiencing our own “Self”. For sure even somebody which has experienced the “Self” makes mistakes and can be deceived. For sure around him were all these dirty intrest, taking care, that it is an controlled commune blossom. The experience of “Self” is possible for every Human. That makes it dangerous for this controlling Order. That the only way they can loose the lordship of being the little builder.

  12. Roman says:

    Just found this link for those who are interested. It is an interview by the guy who had the Rajneesh Chronicles republished. Interesting how this comes about now with so much interest shown in Osho in a positive sense.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2010/09/nonfiction_review_the_rajneesh.html

    • i’ve lived in oregon for quite some time, there and in Seattle, but in Eugene Oregon there are perhaps a hundred or more sannyasins who are living under the radar as they say, for fear of reprisals from the locals.. still after 25 years oregonians, those bible thumping oregonians and there are many, can’t let go. even many progressives have issues. Chris Calder lives there now- the infamous krishna christ who trashes osho every chance he gets… this author of the chronicles, stretches truth like salt water taffy… just to add drama, and i believe to sell books. but he makes some good points… so many books, so little time to burn them.

    • Roman says:

      There is no such thing as purely objective journalism. Gay Talese, Norman Mailer, Trueman Capote, Hunter S.Thompson, Joan Didion have all pointed this out. If one is wearing yellow spectacles one only sees yellow.
      As for philosophy Nietzsche maybe right. All philosophies are perhaps personal confessions. I’m sure I remember some Christian writer saying in Oregon that Osho read the perverted works of Nietzsche and his eyes were evil.
      By the way I saw the new documentary on Hunter S Thompson. A brilliant man. Pity he didn’t cultivate a more inner world. Not a stupid idea Zorba the Buddha. An inner vacuum can lead to suicide but I don’t know what was going on in Thompson. I wasn’t Thompson and I can’t judge.
      I’d like to thank the guys at sannyasnews for allowing us all to express our views, I said my fair share over the last week. It wouldn’t be easy to run this site.

      • there is no such thing as being totally objective regardless… always a little bias, but one can only do the best he or she can to get as close to objectivity as possible.. starting with using a little common sense- doing that you’re 90% there.

  13. Karima says:

    o.k ,i give it a shot, as far as i can see: the movie about the ranch,incredible,all the plots,the sub-plots,the devotees,the politicians,the criminals, the victims,the commentators,the for and against. It was as real as “ordinary”life,as “real”as the 2nd world war,as “real”as the holocaust. Will God intervene? Has God intervened? No. We have so called free will,we are the creators. Osho did’nt intervene in my opinion because of that. He played along in the movie,even probably encouraged the “bad”guys,because he could see the whole picture considering karma. And i have heard this is the time of seeing,and letting go of all karma. In my opinion Osho knew this,he did’nt do anything,the various players were doing it all by themselves. He let it all happen,cause we needed it to see all our conditioning,all our attachments,our pain,suffering,judgements,and to wake up out of those. And it can only happen when the situation is too horrific for the mind to comprehend. He said many times that the only reason he was here was to wake us up! So this whole trip i think was out of a fierce kind of grace! And he himself playing along with it,but not of it! Every sannyassin has her or his opnion about him, and there is a huge variety in opnions,inclusive this one. And he was the perfect mirror,or the finger pointing to the perfect mirror!

    • Roman says:

      Karima, I like the shot and I’m not into nitpicking about something so refreshing. Are you also referring to the film ‘Guru, Secretary and Bodyguard’. The male director, there was also a female, is interviewed on Swiss or German radio. I did a search and found the interview some months back. My German isn’t that bad. He admitted he made a negative film because Osho has become so big. Who would watch a positive film? He also said that he wanted viewers to think for themselves. Were the rolls royces a spoof on consumerism, dada, greed, indulgence? He wanted people to judge for themselves. He stops at the ranch but did consider going further. I haven’t seen the film but I think Poona two should have been included. I believe he got considerable funding from the Swiss Government. He pointed out that there are questions still unanswered. When asked what Osho would think of the film he said Osho would laugh. Would he? Was the film a wasted opportunity? I’ll have to see it when it comes out on dvd.
      Thanks

  14. karima, i believe you’re a bit naive to think osho didn’t do anything and let us play by ourselves… maybe for us pee-ons but the fat cats at the top who were vying for power, he totally was in control and stuck his nose in most things. I knew of a rich, italian guy from N.Y.C. who had recently took sannyas back in ’84, he was well connected with the mafia, owned a couple of businesses and had a personal darsan with osho at the ranch in ’84. osho invited him because he found out through sheela and homa , who this guy was and how much money he had…. in sheela’s communal meetings which was a required thing at that time- she repeatedly said that osho is well aware of what jobs we had, and in fact reassigned several sannyasins to do other jobs- actually, passed down instruction- the chain of command- much like the army. just hearing from sannyasins who were very close to osho and his ma and pa and the things they have said, leads me to believe that osho indeed knew what was going on and actually participated in decision making.. It is tough to have one’s bubble burst, and many refuse to have it burst- and therefore delude themselves in thinking they are more “spiritually advanced” than the general population

    • roman says:

      Is it naive to be inspired by Osho? To quietly read a discourse on a park bench? Is is naive to enjoy his meditations or to listen to Hariprasad the genius flute player who loved Osho? One can go on! So many sannyasins in so many fields living creative lives. I know some very old ones.
      Jay, you mention that Milne is a sort of hero and you’ve also posted to Parmatha that you’ve been reborn and are on the right track. So how do you feel about Osho? With regards to Milne and the ridiculous title of his book ‘Bhagwan the God that Failed.’ which he surely must regret in some ways (Osho never claimed he was god) I still remember the part where he writes about being helped or having therapy with a wise Jungian analyst. A bit of a rebirth. On Conscious TV Milne mentioned Jungian archetypes and blah blah blah but it isn’t so simple. Milne leaves Osho because of all the corruption and Osho being a false master. So what’s he replaced Osho with? If all the disciples of Osho are deluded because Osho is corrupt and deluded wouldn’t the same hold for the Jungians if papa Jung is deluded? And papa Jung may have been very deluded. He joined the Nazi part and said some very crazy things. ‘The Jung Cult-Jung: the Aryan Christ’ by Richard Noll is disturbing. Noll isn’t a second rate writer like Milne and his research is meticulous. If papa Jung is on shaky ground perhaps all his therapists are? Osho never claimed he was a messiah or an Aryan Christ.
      Osho often talked about leaving one group for another and each new group embraces you with the ‘new truth’ (Sufis people of the path.) The disgruntled disciple can spend years bitching about their teacher, embrace something else but has anything changed. There are obviously stages disciples go through and some my leave Osho with bitterness, others with equanimity, others with a deep gratitude. Some may never leave. Just because you don’t seem to be inspired by Osho doesn’t mean someone else can’t be.

  15. rajni says:

    A small aside – with particular reference to JC – I know personally only one individual posting on this site. I don’t know anything about anyone else – except of course the connection with Osho – isn’t it odd therefore that some comments are so aggressive. To strangers. I don’t know, for instance, that some people reading this may be living in a rooming house and using the local library to post. I don’t know that others may be living with a terminal illness or caring for a sick relative. I don’t know what their life has dished up for them. Whether they might be on medication for a serious illness or be a recovering substance abuser or working two jobs cleaning toilets or teaching at University or be retired and living with six old cats or renting a room in a share house or be agraphobic or bipolar or happily ensconsed in some beautiful house with a rambling garden and have wonderful successful children and a loving spouse. I just don’t know. Therefore wouldn’t it make sense not to be judgemental. Because one doesn’t know just what each individual is dealing with on a day to day basis. The only thing we really know about each other is that, at some time over the past 40 odd years, we all stumbled across the same man. And were changed forever.

  16. Karima says:

    jay, for me all these stories and opinions i hear about Osho are second hand, i did,nt expierence it first hand myself. It’s all very interesting to read and i feel the mind want’s to make a stand: for or against,meaning for Osho, or for the various stories. In my understanding that is the bubble of seperation, duality. So yes my stand is for Osho, i believe,and i might be totally wrong that he played along with the game as it presented itself each moment. I don”t think he planned anything. I think he played along as a child,like children play robbers and coppers,innocent and yet totally awake, without judgements. I feel he was in the natural state. But on the other hand, he was in the role of the Master,also that happened in a spontanous way. And if i have my information right,than that is the last ego-position. Attached to that position is probably certain karma which has to be expierenced. So the whole situation on the ranch,all the pain and struggle must have gone through him in a deep way. I think he was crucified by our unconscious acts, (karma) and his own unresolved karma. What i’m trying to say is that he took also our suffering , i don’t mean he took it,but because he was the One( as we all are) what we felt, he felt it too. So much that he probably took the laughing gas an valium to get some relieve.! I know it sounds hilarieus,and when i’m honest i have to say i don;t know,and anyway this is not about Osho but about me. Namaste

  17. nice to hear back from you karima. Well of course it’s second hand, but many of those writing books were there and saw things themselves. Many have remained silent, except for few who have posted here in the past, as i mentioned previously.. get as much info as you can, and using one’s common sense and being as unbiased as one can be, make up your mind to what is probably the truth.. though your opinion of osho’s lack of actions, comes from, i think , your conditioning from the previous years(before the ranch debacle) of being a sannyasin, and being influenced by others in your clique. I see no opinion based on what probably transpired during the pune 1 and ranch and pune 2 days, and from accounts from the insiders who spilled the beans. did you ever have chats with friends or acquaintances and was told of their schemes to make money, legally or legally? ever come across a ma(s) who worked as a prostitute or a stripper? not rumors but directly from the horse’s mouth? Well, i have, and many. Just put the pieces together, and add it all up, and include the denial and deceit and jealousies humans in general have along with the traumatic stress that most sannyasins had that led them to osho in the first place.. and the truth will be close at hand… simple arithmetic and common sense… still lacking in the osho sannyasin world of today… i’m a bit dumfounded by the this continued idiocy of sannyasins.

  18. jaycpennie says:

    roman- actually osho’s old name- Bhagwan means just that.. and he did make statements that he was god- in a flashy sort of way. he also made statements that he never made mistakes.. and osho talked about doing things and then changed his mind.. very notorious for saying one thing and then changing his tune.. or have you forgotten his discourses? Sannyasins “conveniently forgetting the past and then re-writing history to justify their participation in sannyas and osho, to the outside world. not a sign of an intelligent life form, like osho hoped his “New Man” would be.. quite the opposite.

  19. Preetam says:

    I know, what Osho were speaking over is possible, not the way expectation like it. But realizing of this “Self” is possible. All understanding, freedom and truth rises from that place otherwise you are just a cue ball for common mossback interest. It is truth, oneness… die living… go the deepest point… even deeper, little straight, turn around, open all three eyes and look into it look and fix yourself, grass grows by itself.

  20. martyn says:

    I’ve done IT…
    I HAVE BEEN WORKING IN MY SECRET LABORATORY FOR WEEKS NOW..and I’ve stumbled across the formula for the RENEWED MAN..this new radical approach to living would include a meditation divided into several phases lasting as long as you like but which included the transformative ability to use the power of thought to :

    A) Consider events that happened a long time ago (first 15 minutes up to say first two days) including the fall of the Roman Empire or any films by Oliver Stone.

    B) Have an opinion about something that happened once (second stage lasting 15 minutes or until the opinion changes)

    C) Keep discussing how something that happened to somebody else was caused by something sometime ago ( third 15 minute stage usually but not always received in silence.)

    D) Disagree either alone or with a partner (this stage is optional following any decision to replace it with consensual sexual activity )

    Visit kitchen ( breaktime for dedicated meditators to put on kettle)

    Final stage : lasts about 20 seconds …Blame everything on America, Evolution and the collapse of moral values and the spread of Simpsonism..
    then
    dig a deep underground bunker and store food and carry live ammunition and a thick book….