Shantam gives a report after many years.
In our Osho´s movement, one person who will be remembered as a traitor, as a modern day Judas; - well the title is reserved only, and only for Ms. Sheela, formerly known as Ma Anand Sheela. Is this a correct assessment one wonders?
I know a bit of the history, She was the main driving forcel to take Bhagwan (Osho) to America in 1981. I imagine, there must have been many back room discussions during the years 1979-1980, about the merits and demerits of shifting the base from Pune to somewhere in America. During many of his early discourses, Osho had full heartedly condemned the vices of Socialism, and praised the American model of growth and living.( Indeed the world at large for the most part subsequently adopted something like that way of life and economics. )
All Osho disciples knew that during the Rajneeshpuram phase 81-85, Sheela was not just the right hand person of Osho. She was both His hands. Her sudden departure was said by her to be out of pain and disillusionment.
My own personal journey with Osho started with a book during mid October 1983. I still cannot imagine, how one book penetrated all the layers of an educated and snobbish son of a landlord; Osho became like a lightening tower on the journey to the unknown. As a baptised Sikh, who was proud of his legacy of service, smile and sacrifice, even to think that I needed a human guru was out of the question, and yet I followed Osho with the same zeal as shown in the scriptures; all the eggs in one basket.
During those years, a Sikh insurgency was indulging in blood mayhem. The Indian State was reacting with equal force. Thousands of people died untimely deaths, because of militancy and the bullets of the state machinery.
The fall of Rajneeshpuram in America also changed the life of many of us Indian disciples. In 1985, I was fighting with my grand parents to sell a part of our land, so that I could go to America to experience Osho´s darshans. Grand Conspiracy - around November 1985, I had my first glimpse of Osho but at New Delhi´s international Airport !
The waves of love generated at Osho´s mystery school took me to Switzerland and I knew Sheela lived in Switzerlland but there was no thought to know about her. Why should I?
As far as I was aware she betrayed the movement, and she had wounded Osho where it could hurt the most-so – why should I bother to know about her or her side of story.
I was fully committed to the Pune Ashram, and used to spend five months there and the rest with my family in Switzerland. Somehow, when I saw the changes imposed by Jayesh and the Amrito team, and in a very whimsical way, and also the way they banned many of the top most Osho devotees (Those people are now based in Delhi and Dharamshala, and as I know from the photos and impressions of people, they are really keeping the core mystery school energy intact), it became clear in my eyes, ” Sheela is not the only Villain, There was a kind of palace politics going on around Osho, and I surmised this was the cause of why the Rajneeshpuram project collapsed like a pack of cards.”
Also I played with the thought, may be because of a Christian influence that I should not be so antagonistic towards Sheela, and as an adventure I should communicate with her. It might help to heal the bleeding Sannyas heart.
From Google I searched her address. The contents of my mail was spontaneously written. . As I remember I wrote.
Dear Sheela ji,
When you were leaving the ship of Osho(Bhagwan), I was entering. I must say, you are the Villain no.1 in the eyes of sannyasins and as life has given me the opportunity to find myself living in a near-by city, I would like to meet you and hear your side of story. As an in-house Ashram astrologer, I have done the charts of many well known disciples, and would like to do your chart too. If you feel like it, please let me know your date and time of birth etc.”
interestingly, three prominent women, Nirvano, Neelam and Sheela share the same date and year of birth .
I don´t remember how I had ended the mail, whether with customary Love and then Yours Sincerely or His Blessings!
Energy was surely the same, as if a present member of Osho team is addressing the sacked senior player.
In the evening, there was a phone call. I am Sheela speaking!
Voice was very soft and soothing.
We made the “Tremin” for the coming Sunday, around 1500.
In the train to Basel, I was trying to imagine how she will look in person. My best image of her was the nude full sheet photo spread published in 1985 in Illustrated weekly of India. In the article it was mentioned, as per the People magazine, she is in the top ten gorgeous women of that time.
Pritish Nandy; the only Indian editor who went to have the scoop story has mentioned, ” Bhagwan has instructed Sheela to give the nude shot on the lake. Surely, Osho is the master provocateur!
At the end of the bus route, her driver was waiting. Sheela´s institution MatruSadan (Mother´s Home) and Petru sadan (Father´s home) is on a hill top, and Rheinfelden near Basel is one of the richest part of Switzerland with many high income people.
On the entrance to her compound, There are two Samadhis. As an Indian, I felt at home to see something like this in Switzerland. Prior to my visit, I had worked for a year in an old people´s home. Compared to that, Sheela´s institution was different. Her office desk was among the beds of seniors. As she mentioned, most of her people are dements and people in the last stage of their life.
One thing makes her institution apart from others is her capacity to share affection with the people. Hugs were shared with the seniors. She mentioned, she has learnt this from her commune days.
I even nudged her softly, ” Yes this is your commune and here no one can indulge in parallel politics.”
She led me into the dining area and asked, ” At this time, she can offer me only a sandwich and tea or coffee. Would I like to have cheese or salami, in case I am not vegetarian. At such usual questions, I always answer with pride, ” I eat everything, what people eat here.”
I also asked her, ” Are you vegetarian.”
“Oh no..a good steak I cannot resist.” she answered, matter of factly. .
From my bag, I took the print of her astrology chart out and went into my professional role; distanced objective and fair. Even with paid sessions, I had always followed the gossips way; as if we were simply chit chatting about life.
One particular ritual I have always followed is not to save the charts of people. Within a day or two after the reading, I delete the chart.
One peculiar thing about her chart, Osho´s chart and my chart is, Neptune is in the 4th house.
I started from this point, that such people don´t fit into the usual box of family structure. Their search and longing is to create a bigger family based on soul connections rather than blood connections. These people are at home everywhere though they don´t have any roots anywhere, kind of spiritual nomads.
(Liz Green´s has discussed Osho´chart in detail in her treatise, “Astrological Neptune and the quest for Redemption”)
I told Sheela, in my opinion – there lies the problem at the very base of the Rajneeshpuram saga. Many people became part of the commune because of Osho´s personal charisma - though in their soul, commune life was not their calling.
I looked at her. She nodded and said, ” Yes it makes sense” In her view, she claimed that her old people´s home was a natural next step of her commune life. She still cannot imagine how this happened in a very short period of time. She did not have even the necessary education to operate such a work yet the town administration she claimed had approached her.!
My second point was that I am also Pisces and just the other day I read the theme of Pisces life is to serve or suffer.
She laughingly said, ” Many times it is to serve and to suffer.”
I think then I shifted to my real enquiry and asked, ” I don´t see you as a betrayal type and it was always my feeling that all the blame being put on you was unfair.”
She answered, “ As Indians it is in not in our genes to betray the master.”
I asked then what was the reason for your sudden departure.
As I remember, Sheela has answered, ” It was becoming too much burden for me to fulfil Bhagwan´s wishes. I had to manage the finances to build the commune from scratch, and He was just interested in his Rolls Royces. I became disillusioned. So one day, I decided to leave the commune and I had just a few dollars change with me.”
I asked further whether there was no politics involved among the different people who were physically close to Osho. I gave her the example, ” In Pune, Jayesh and Amrito have taken over the whole system. They have even banned Neelam and others from entering the ashram premises.”
She laughed sarcastically and said, ” People really don´t get mature. They think Bhagwan will do everything for them. And then she added, Devaraj was always an irritating and interfering type. Jayesh she does not know.”
I asked further, ” Don´t you think, it is possible that Devaraj was making Osho dependent on drugs. In this way, Osho lost control over reality. She answered, ” Yes, it is very much possible and this added to her disillusionment - that she could do nothing to stop this.”
More I don´t remember. I think after this she went into spiritual mambo jumbo, which gave the impression that somewhere she is a schizophrenic personality type.
There was no scope to dig further. As one can see till now, she has never put all her cards on the table.
At her Establishment everywhere on the walls, there were her and Bhagwan´s photos. Glass cupboards have all the books but only till the point of Rajneeshpuram. I asked her, ” Why she calls Him Bhagwan, whereas He himself has denounced that name.”
Her answer was short and crisp, ” She has no connection with Osho. She knows only Bhagwan. He is still leading her and that Bhagwan will always be part of her being. In the next breath she added, ” Change of name was a cunning strategy to run away from the responsibility of his past actions”
She had, she claimed, faced her actions with a head held high and has come out of it with new wisdoms and insights. She is not dependent on any body for her life, but with sheer grit and determination she has built her life again and she has thereby contributed something meaningful to this society. Her enterprise is in the newspapers, and her old people’s home is refereed to as a model all over Switzerland.
I added, ” Yes this one can see. No society likes rebels but people who follow the usual path of least resistance.”
She is very proud to mention that when she landed in Switzerland after her jail term in America, she has no money and no friends. She worked as a waitress in a coffee shop. I asked her, ” Why Switzerland?”
She said, ” Because of her marriage with her Swiss husband, It became the natural choice to start life again”.
At this I brought my astrology in and said ” Her 8th house has some planets which means other people´s money, inheritance etc. May be she got some money from her late husband to start such a project. and that she will use such money for humanitarian projects.”
Her answer was in a sharp tone, ” No. Only my father supported me. No one else.”
I think her dog was sitting all the time near her. She even mentioned that it is not possible for her to go on long holidays. She would miss her Tiger!
She asked about many Indian friends. Her fond memory was for Keerti, that during Pune One, they used to go to the movies.
She took me into all the rooms. Showed me her bedroom, where her visiting sister was watching television.
One remarkable fact she mentioned was that she never locks her bedroom, even her bathroom has no lock. Exactly like this she was living in Rajneeshpuram; without locks symbolically means, I am available for my people all the time, I have no private space.
It was becoming late. Rheinfelden has a nice thermal bad, and she spends her Sunday evening there. Every time she takes one or two other residents with her. So it was decided, she will drop me on the way to Railway station.
Yes, before departure, she gave me the copy of her book. I Asked her to sign it. For some days, this book was in my book shelf, then I put it in the paper garbage container.
From home, I wrote her an email to express my thanks. A few weeks later, I wrote to her of my position - that I am looking for work and if I were to get some part time work in her institution, it would give me the feeling of the commune.
She wrote back, ” She will keep me in mind. I should contact her again some time later.”
Some weeks later, She replied, ” Sorry it is not possible. Few beds have become empty and she has to reduce personnel costs.”
I wrote her back in a mean way, something like ” Don´t think I am in need of your work. My feeling when I was with you was that only when past Osho meets present Osho, some collective wounds can get healed. But it seems like you are very much into your head. I have not felt an iota of remorse in you.
This is the end of the road for us. Goodbye”
Surely, deleted all the mails too.
PS – Years passed . Last year, there was an email from her, that her Book is translated into English and will be launched in India. I should spread the news. I wrote her politely, ” Thanks for giving me the information and I will mention this book in my facebook blog.”
Shantam Maharishi, thanks for your interesting article. It held my attenion all the way through and it raised a smile in places. You have a good sense of humour and some of your observations were very entertaining. Your preamble was a bit long but it did help put things in perspective. I find the article says more about you as a person than anything else and I enjoyed that. I’m not too intrigued by Sheela. It is pretty obvious that she is in some way not quite right in the head, but her Indian background helps make that more acceptable.
I’m sure over the coming days the comments will provide some cause for debate.
I agree with Lokesh that the article said more about Shantam than Sheela…
What still surprises me, is that if Shantam could see Sheela’s schizophrenia so easily and clearly how did Osho miss it?
I believe that Sheela never had any children and is telling. Interestingly she calls one of her homes, “Mother’s”… the last thing a mother would want is for her child to…
Thanks for sharing Shants. I admire the fact that you actually went out and found answers for yourself.
Hey Sheela, in case you are reading this, a good mother would have told him to stop taking drugs with his friends and that there is no more money for cars and watch him squirm.
Hey. An exciting breakthrough.
Psychiatrists, my understanding is, are not united
in the matter of diagnosing schizophrenia, lots of controversy
regarding diagnosing any mental illness, including schizophrenia,
yet Shantam has pronounced Sheela to be
schizophrenic so we know she is.
Congratulations Shanty Pants. A bit of
credibility at last.
Please note the point at which Shants declared her schizophrenic… when she drifted into an irrelevant monologue.
We are not talking about clinical schizophrenia here, just the common or garden criminal type.
Here is a link to Sheela´s homes.
http://www.matrusaden.ch
Her homes slogan about how much her parents had done for her says much.
Her demented old-people’s ‘communes’ say everything.
PS Had anybody been checking out Ma Anand Puja for her version of the events?
Sardarji, I concur with BV that you went out and found the answers yourself. But I have to admit – that kind of time and money you should have spent on a good female escort, you could have got good nourishment to yourself.
I like the definition of the commune in the link you posted.
Not every seeker need to have Neptune in the 4th house or xyz in abc house and live without family. There were and are many mystics who have family and still be on the path of enlightenment.
If there is one word to describe Sheela : That’s “power”. Osho probably used her power hungriness to his advantage. See how ferocious her dog is. ( as I saw in the Guru secretary movie) She wants to control that and feel even powerful. Sheer stupidity and insensitivity.
One thing I noticed about you. Only you want to criticize Jayesh and co. If anybody else criticizes them, then you don’t want to back them for some reason.
The only reason Sheela has not come clean is because she wants “doubt” to remain in our minds and hopefully in the “doubt” she gets at least one little tiny bit of a chance that she might be innocent… to which I say that the only reason she is nurturing “the doubt in my mind” is because of her guilt.
Shantam , I remember the time when you came to Poona after this visit & your understated & fresh account of this trip , the flavor (understated) is still intact , maybe only we all have matured a bit !
An enlightened man addicted to drugs ? oooookayyyy !!!!!
An enlightened man living out of reality ? oooookayyyyy !!!!
Then who commented all those difficult, wierd, enigmatic stories on japanese zen ? Maybe my grandmother. Is there anyone willing to be disciple of my grandmother ? She will teach you the esoteric misteries about hand-made pasta.
Shantam,
thanks for the article.
It shows your initiative, and possibly charm in having received an invitation to Sheela’s homes. And your account of it is good today also.
I agree that perhaps it tells us more about you than Sheela, but that’s okay too. You have come in for a lot of flack on this board, but there are some things here in your account that reflect well on you and command respect.
I echo Vartan’s comment “I admire the fact that you actually went out and found answers for yourself.”
You dont say of whom the samadhi’s were outside Sheela’s dwelling, but one guesses her father and mother from previous posts?
I second the request for some brave commentator here to make the same journey to Ma Anand Puja!
I will try and make such a journey to see Ma Anand Savita, Sheela’s number two, when my health recovers, who lives in the UK.
No doubt that Sheela cast her self in the role of the proverbial rat deseting a sinking ship. Afterall, apart from Osho, she was the one who steered the ship towards the rocks more than anyone else.
Sheela says, ‘He was just interested in his Rolls Royces. I became disillusioned. So one day, I decided to leave the commune and I had just a few dollars change with me.’
How many times more does one need to hear about Osho’s obsession with luxury cars to know it was true? Which in turn brings up the question that this is the behaviour of a normal human being not a Buddha. Yet the Catholic sannyasins live in denial about such facts. Round about this time Osho himself soon resorted to repeatedly describing himself as an ordinary man. Something of a double edged sword seeing as how on an external level there appeared little that was ordinary about him. The stalwarts of course thought this was another of his jokes, or a device intended to bring about their awakening, and for them it was business as usual. Even today they believe that Osho is working on the transformation of their lives, while the ambitious lay claim to his legacy and promote themselves as torch bearers continuing the master’s work. These people are the provebial blind leading the blind. Most will remain stuck there unless they receive a massive shock that jolts them out of their unconscious stupor, whereby they will come to realise that they are not developing spiritually at all, but rather exhibiting cliched spiritual behaviour patterns that has taken them absolutely nowhere worthwhile.
Taking that into account I don’t really believe that Sheela became disillusioned, or why else would she be giving talks about how best to proceed in allowing Osho to work on one’s self today? Schizophrnic indeed. No, Sheela, if nothing else, is a survivor. She knew her time was up, that she had gone to far due to Osho’s pushing her to do just that, and she got out. Now here she is back in the rig for anoher swig, running two old folk’s homes in one of the most affluent areas on Earth. On that level you have to hand it to the woman and if you want to get ahead in this rotten world you’d do well to learn a few tricks from her. On the other hand if you see the world for what it is you’ll avoid people like Sheela is if she were a plague carrier.
Interesting proposition Lokesh but I am afraid it only represents a small section of the people here.
As a commentator on the human condition Osho is still unequaled and most who seek such commentary are totally disinterested in the private life of the author.
It might come as surprise to you that fresh people are falling in love with Osho all the time. And they are currently having a better time than us oldies because they see and know less of the man and more of his works.
BV says, As a commentator on the human condition Osho is still unequaled.
I agree to a certain extent…one must in face of the colossal verbal legacy he left behind.
Osho was a sponge for drawing others’ ideas in and then transforming them into something very approachable and digestible. What I find questionable is that somehow it takes a person so far and then what? Osho’s cornestones, meaning his meditation techniques, witnessing, letting go, surrender etc are all valid, but as a coherent whole what do they really add up to?
That is something one has to ask if earnest about the development of human potential. When the shoe fits, one might say. After all, if reading Osho books, watching discourses and practising his meditation techniques were enough to enlighten a person there would be thousands of enlightened ones and there aren’t, as far as I can see anyway. In the seven years I spent in relative close proximity to Osho nobody was ever declared enlightened by Osho, except as a joke or if they were dead. It is a very personal matter. Each person must decide for themselves.
In my case, I was forced into situations wherein I had to come up with something to get through them and although an aid up to a point, what I had learned from Osho did not tick all the boxes. That does not say I am ungrateul towards Osho. I am grateul for what I learned from him. It is just that I was placed in situations that required surendering to the fact that I had to let go of him in order to reach where I had to go and in order to survive, a process that took some difficult years to come to terms with. I would describe the process as a very rude awakening.
BV, you say, “It might come as surprise to you that fresh people are falling in love with Osho all the time.”
Do you think I am living in a cave? I’m aware of that. I too went through the falling in love with Osho scenario. I’m way beyond that now and that is not some ego trip speaking. It is a fact. For me it is the past. I think it is good to remember that whatever one reads in a book it is ultimately of no use to you in spiritual terms unless integrated into one’s life in a purely existential fashion.
Some masters were very short on words, no doubt because they were well aware of the danger posed by too much enlightened talk. People parrot the master’s words and it does them no good whatsoever.
As for your statement: “And they are currently having a better time than us oldies because they see and know less of the man and more of his works.”
Ignorance is bliss in that case.
In terms of the enlightenment lark…
The way I saw it (and still see it) people didn’t got to him and said, “I want what you’ve got” because if they did, he probably would have told them to first go and read all the books he read… for a start.
I am not saying it’s all in the books, but it’s a good start. The rest it’s just playacting and head f**king.
I am sorry to say this because I will be quoting him and I don’t like doing that, but you are all enlightened pretending not to be. It depends on your definition.
>> What I find questionable is that somehow it takes a person so far and then what?
If you really want an answer to that question, I’d say that now you have to forget everything you have learned and start again. You know too much and crowded by the facts. I don’t know how else to put it but you have to start seeing things (again) like you have never seen them before.
I am sorry to hear about the probs you had. There were a lot of damaged people around. It was a long hard road for many.
>> Ignorance is bliss in that cases.
We (us oldies) also didn’t know everything. He always said that the ones closest to him, had it the hardest. Look what happened to Amrito and Sheela…
thank you for sharing, shantam prem
i can well understand that that you compiled took a few days or more
because in seemingly very often hostile climate conditions
neither truth nor sharing has easy ways to flower or bear fruit – the least to say
but the chance looking into some kalaeidoskop s splitter
always (…sorry fresch…)
feeling what s echoing in the energy i call “heart” the present moment to heart receive and also to give or to respond
“heart” also which has no name nor frame
yet moving us what we may call then “sammasati”
so – excuse me – your story in the literally means – is for me less important as the “YOU” what s shining through
reading a have been reminded to another (of the many ? i don t know)
indians coming from or with a sikh background
fabulous one not only because of his rainbow colored turbans and more so of his laughter filling the whole ashram void
or fabulous of being one of the most charming womanizers
and quite some often he was invited as a guest in one and the other mystic rose meditation groups when the capacity to give it all a laughter fell very short in the group
he ever was successful to the max
unique like everybody of us all
as an extraordinary-ordinary human being
sharing like yours reminding me this morning of the biggest AWE when entering the first time the “gate less gate”
being in wonder if that could come TRUE
a “PEACE train” with innumerous different passengers with such a variety of backgrounds
mentally
socially
psychologically
physically
coming together from so many backgrounds for a love affair not known and also not -knowable
(sorry again . fresch and may be others – but that s the way i can express it…)
well
honey -moons of love affairs have to face challenges
that s the way it is
some survive the challenges
some not (seemingly-and then effortless effort is needed))
i only know that every an even as faint touch (echo)tickling in and of heart quality
bringing back some flavor of DIGNITY to such a love affair
i feel very grateful for
so
thank you all and thank you shantam prem too
to-day here-now
little prayer-song
madhu
PS
the URGE
to get on a PEACE train together
as important and as urgent then ever
every-where
isn t it ?
madhu
Madhu, please write as if you want somebody to read what you are writing. Otherwise you might as well put your head out of the window and shout at the pigeons.
Maybe she is concerned about having the pigeons shit on her head.
Yes Lokesh, Sheela is a survivor just like the captain of Costa Concordia!
Somewhere it is a fact, a vast percentage of sannyasins who participated in the experiment of Rajneeshpuram with all their heart, money and being feel like Incest victims; because the level of trust was molested by one functionary or the other.
When I visited Sheela somewhere between 2004-05, I was well aware that Swiss properties are world´s most expansive real estates. This is one of the reason, only one in four Swiss nationals owe any kind of property. So I was trying to guess the net worth of her “commune empire.” even though she claimed she has put the stones with her own hands. I think it must be around 2.5 to 3 million Swiss franks.
In 1985 commune collapse. Case goes into court, she spends 29 months in US Prison and just 5 years from the start, a complete project in a foreign country was erected, from where came the Money?
In a country or orgaisatition where audit is done only by the owners, some percentage of money is definitely siphoned to off shore accounts.
I am very much sure, same was the case in Rajneeshpuram, and Sheela was the former Jayesh, who was controlling each and every cent.
I hope Parmartha will share his eye witness account, how funds were generated for such mammoth project?
As I see, most of the sannyas leaders including group and meditation facilitators have some percentage of “Tony Blair Syndrom” in them. The asshole has really the knack to milk money even from the dead cows.
Sheela says, money for her project was from her father. My doubt is stolen money was siphoned in the Swiss accounts in her father´s name. All over the world, ill-gotten wealth is stacked under the pillows of blood relatives.
Every such leader knows, in a untruthful world, you can trust your own blood.
PS- I muct say Puna 2 was built from the ashes of Rajneeshpuram. Like a mythological phoenix, it was a rise from the ashes. Osho came out from his old skin and started a new inning.
As Madhu has described this phase as PEACE train, I fully agree with her. It is the best adjective of that phase.
Unfortunately cancer came back. Jayesh and Amrito are the preverbal Sheela´s !
Sri Shantam, you are probably right on the money. This is of no concern to me and the same goes for Jayesh etc.
PEACE train my ass Shantam. Osho was more or less under house arrest and he had to keep talking otherwise the authorities would have limited the number of people coming to see him.
It will go down in history that he wasn’t the same man after the world journey. He held it together for a while after R’puram but as time went on he realised that he wasn’t going to be able to do what he wanted on this planet anymore.
Thank you shantam. Nowadays all the best writers are to urged to bring their own experience to their stories, that is also a sign of a respected journalist or writer. To be open about your ankle and bring your personality to it.
Isn’t it something that sheela is doing what all top therapists would like to do: having a house with dying people. And getting very well paid for it.
I do not think she came out with empty pockets, nor did keerti or neelam. Or the rest of them. That must the reason nobody talks. That’s why all their books are such rubbish.
What would make the biggest myth but not sharing anything personal about a human being? So, all over in sanyas world that is what is happening. And who would be the best promoter for it? His personal Salier. Just watch the film and actually what did his bodyguard said in the book “the god that failed” that was betrayal? He was describing his own experiences and telling ordinary things about osho – of course from projections point of view…like everybody else..It was my forst encounter with osho in thailand a year before going to Puna..But if nobody else does it, tell what was real and human with osho, so where does it leave us? And even if it’s osho’s wish, I am not sure if I need that. For my meditation. To be real. To go for samasati.
In one way I hear sheela talking like any of us sanyasins, which is strange, but still there. One thing I do not understand shantam is why did you want to work for her? There is a lot here, but these were spontaneous few words..
And Loki, I did work at checkout counter when young, but I was disastrous; numbers and being efficient is not my talent..I got fired.
MOD: FRESCH, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY ‘SALIER’? WE’VE NEVER HEARD THIS WORD BEFORE!
ALSO, COULDN’T RESIST LEAVING THIS UNEDITED:
To be open about your ankle and bring your personality to it.
YOU SOUND AS IF YOU’VE DONE TOO MANY GROUPS, MADAM!
I mean just watch the film, ‘I Leave You My Dream’. And.. Sorry.
Sheela says in her book” do not kill him” meaning his legacy..so, it’s interesting – who is killing whom. Is she really the “bad” one? Or fake one? Perhaps she was used.
On the other hand, media does not give space for criminals because they all appear real – because most often they believe their own stories. So, actually, only facts account.
Mod, sorry about my personality and also writing mistakes. I am horrible, what to do, do not fire me.
Shortly, Salier was Mozart’s “producer”, a composer who admired him, but did everything to destroy him. Jeyesh would have been nobody without other people around osho. I agree with shantam, that this is all about the money. However the same goes with shantam’s friends, keerti and neelam.
MOD: NO WORRIES, FRESCH, “ankle” WAS A GOOD LAUGH!
Fresch declares, Jeyesh would have been nobody without other people around osho.
The same goes for Osho, except that he made no secret of it. Unfortuately very few believed him and obviously still don’t today.
You mean the he was feeding off us, as we were feeding off him? He was a cheeky sod.*
* I wonder if that is how it worked with Jesus and his disciples and Buddha and his lot?
It would be interesting to ponder what Osho would have done if he didn’t go down the commune route. He might have ended up making TV programs. It would have been far more interesting if he came to the west before he started ‘teaching’… “hit them at home” so to speak. Pity we got to him, before he got to us. We have seen a different Osho.
Mod, there is a relation with body and mind. Thanks.
MOD: YES – AND THE VICTORIANS LIKED A NICE ANKLE AS WELL….
Fresch
>> Mod, there is a relation with body and mind. Thanks.
Tell that to Stephen Hawkins.
My feeling is that Shantam wanted to work for Sheela in order to be close to someone, who was close to Osho. Hey Shants?
Tell that to Stevie Hawking. A very interesting point.
Mod, there is relation with body and mind with ankles. Think about the robes. What stories there might be?
MOD: OOOH YES, FRESCH, WHAT ANKLES (OR EVEN ANGLES) EH?!!
hi vijay (19. february 2014 at 7.40 pm)
nice to see you
like to add that i would be honored to learn from your grandma
“the esoteric mystery of hand-made pasta” like you quoted it
that must be a remarkable woman your grandma
better not to misuse her as the grandson…. who knows – what your next pasta indulging would have after-effects on your stomach
take care
madhu
Your TAKE CARE is fake. You are an hypocrite.
Sheela’s father was a very rich man, and extremely well connected in India.
He also would have more than an iota of guilt in his protective feelings towards his daughter, after serving her prison sentence, as he had encouraged her in her interest in Osho in the first place.
I see nothing wrong with the view that he helped to restart Sheela up again in life and business, and used his wealth in that direction.
In fact it rings more true within my experience of life than somehow money siphoned from Rajneeshpuram. Actually I know a number of sannyasins who got their investments back from Rajneeshpuram, and a few who did not from the English Commune Medina, so that too would support this view.
I do find it interesting that Sheela has never left Switzerland since arriving there, though clearly her family visit her there.
Maybe Shantam knows, are there still criminal and extraditable charges laid against her by the Americans?
I have a friend who gave $1,000, 000 to the commune for a room and received nothing in return. Now she only has 20,000, 000 euros left. Sad story.
thank you shantam prem
to pull out the sikh dagger (attention: s y m b o l!)
quite some more information to cut through
there are some of the symbolic ways
in numerous ways lie the finger pointing to the moon is one other -
where i love the ways light falls on muddy pathways
and helping all kind of people
also drunkards or otherwise absent minded absent awareness ones
not to fall or having accidents
or to bump into one another
the most useful symbols pictures music and or whatsoever i feel those
which point
OUTWARD as well as INWARD
both directions
that s the way i understood up to now also the sikh s dagger
well
the way to understand it as a universal being on a way to BE a universal being
very often i become aware of my yet
not useful an totally inefficient “fights against fighting”
bitterness so often the outcome of that one -
but what to say
the symbol of the sikh s dagger ist a good one
depending like anything on the user
isn t it ?
madhu
Madhu I think the must relevant symbol in relation to your post is….’?’.
It is hearsay, Parmartha, that Sheela´s father was a very rich man?
It is 100% bogus idea and I am not sure from where you got it.
As matter of fact, Sheela´s father and Osho´s father were simply Middle class; not even upper middle class. Surely like people of his generation, late Shri Patel has the expectations that their children get university education, go into medical, engineering or academic profession and may be get immigration into UK or USA.
It will be interesting to note, Gujaratis in India are like Jews of the world. entrepreneurship is in their DNA. 90 of top industrialists and market investors have Gujrat connection and maximum number of Indians settled in the west too are from this state.
May be you have heard the joke, in America, Patel is Synonym of Motel!
Sheela is one such Patel!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Anand_Sheela
Interesting, Shantam.
Funnily enough, just this afternoon I found myself finding a similarity between Sheela and the materialistic, business-savvy, ambitious, money-making jewish stereotype.
You dont know your own country or history Shantam.
Please read Swami Gyan Bhed’s book. A man who served 10 years in Gandhi’s ashram, and was a friend of at least two Indian Prime Ministers, one being the first Indian Prime Minister, Pandit Nehru did not lack for the financial resources where he needed them.
And sadly may I say so, particularly in a country like India. You yourself make the DNA Gudarati connection with money and enterprenuership.
Once again, when rational alternnative explanations are offered you dont like it, and retain the stereotypical thinking.
You live partly in Switzerland, and also must know something of that state. Dipo Sheela’s third husband (though now long dead) was also Swiss and a rich homosexual. The reason even now why Sheela is allowed to live in Switzerland is she is the widow of a Swiss citizen.
In life, oddly enough people are never all bad or all good – that’s my experience, and the complex web of character is very difficult to stay with, when “judgement” arises because tiu always gravitates towards extremes. The skill of studied “discrimination” is in short supply everywhere.
Example of Gujrati entrepreneurship.
One store owner in the states was surprised to see the invoices. One young Indian intern has booked an order for a ship and accessories. He has also sold clothes, daily utilitarian things, travel, medical and life insurance to a single customer. What has amazed him was the fact that young guys was from the general medicine counter.
This was first time in his business life. He called the Indian young man in his office.
The smiling young man explained, ” It was very easy. In the morning, my first customer asked about the head ache tablet.”
Owner became curious and asked, ” Then?”
Then it was very simple, Sir. I asked him, ” You seem to have stress headache.”
He agreed with my diagnose, and said, ” Yes you are right. What should I do.”
I told him, ” Medicine is for short relief. You need holidays. He agreed. So I took him to the shipping department and in this way, sold him one thing after another.”
No need to say, Sheela too must have sold the idea of America to OSHO.
Somebody must have been a persuasive salesman, because Osho declared that an Indian guru going to USA was pre-empting their downfall. Let’s add personal claivoyance to his mystical arsenal. Then again, Paramahansa did very well in the States, bless his soul.
Lokesh, in my way I do share your pain with “was there anything” -effect. I expect many share it. I did a lot of groups and even more so osho’s meditations, like for years dynamic..And I am not talking about something grandiose expectations like enlightenment but me too I wonder more like well, what happened with me, did it do anything, anything at all.
On the contrary, I risked a lot of time, effort and money etc. like everybody else. So, I am not interested any more naïveté programmes. I remember my mother (left wing ex soviet union fan) visiting me in pune early 90th saying in outside of old Buddha hall that “yes, it’s beautiful, but it does not work, I know” (she was referring to her communist religion dreams that had collapsed 20 years before that). She did all groups and a lot of meditations, but did not take sannyas, she took it as a hobby.
I remember looking into her, thinking ‘This time it’s different, and you (my mother) just do not let yourself fall in love any more.’ These days, my mother is very well and I seem to be more fucked up. How I see it that human, my own, evolution is very, very slow, it’s bullshit it could happen right now. It’s more like worm a is being transformed to worm b. I need to accept that. And be a normal human being. So, in a way, shantam, this story was kind of getting back to the reality for you? How do you reflect it now? I love jews by the way.
Fresch says:
>> I wonder more like well, what happened with me, did it do anything, anything at all.
If you didn’t go through ‘that journey’, you’d be a different ‘person’ now and having different thoughts, the internal dialogue would have a different tone too. Now I cannot say from here what kind of person you would have been, etc, etc, but don’t assume you would have been better off. Somehow you appear to be undervaluing your experience.
It is in the nature of the mind to give alternatives. I wouldn’t worry about it. You are still here and that is all that matters. The rest is just ‘mind’ and it will be different tomorrow.
A good post Fresch. As I’ve said before, I dig your sincerity. Your mum sounds cool.
yes – may be or may not be – lokesh,
you can take what you saw as “my most relevant …”?” home and
and use it for yourself also
have a good one
-
madhu
It’s true Lokesh, my mother is cool: we had Che Guevara ‘s picture on the wall in the 70′s (and we went all the way with “El Pueblo Unido Jamás Será Vencido”) , and I had Osho’s picture in the early 90′s.
My teenage son is going for confirmation (his friends are there), but his first big “love” was for a 5-years-older sannyasin kid. So I wonder he might just go for the same mistakes.
I’ve watched a few generations grow up. Conclusion, you are rarely right about how the kids will turn out. Just give em plenty of space and love and watch them grow. Currently smiling about my eight-year-old grandson’s latest comment to his father.
‘Dad, you need to take some drugs. You are far too serious.’
According to Subhuti in his book “My Dance with a Madman” Sheela self-describes herself as “A good housewife and a lousy fuck”. My feeling is she had and has a brutal honesty streak.
The Ranch could not be run like a family with a giant Mum, and however good a housewife she was it demanded other skills entirely. This was a big mistake not only of her in being ambitious for the job, but those who chose her ,,, somehow…
If we, she, the commune was allowed to build as we wanted without the stupid restrictions a lot of the negative traits of Sheela might never have surfaced.
I know we keep looking inward because there was an internal fuck-up, but the pressure “first” came from the outside.
We were in middle of f**king nowhere for Christ’s…
Only person capable to save Rajneeshpuram was jayesh.
Alas; he came as a spiderman in the last minute to rescue Bhagwan!
Did he not say, certainly of Poona 1,
that he didn’t want efficient, he wanted
unpredictable, disorganized?
Jayesh has been “in power” for such a long time – even people not knowing it.. What do we know about him? Anyone?
“What do we know about him (Jayesh)? Anyone?”
Fresch, you can ask about mobile number of Mr. God.
Someone will surely find it.
I think it is a kind of record, through my posts, I have mentioned this name Jayesh more than all other article writers at oshonews combined together.
One of the reason, I feel is senior sannyasins are suffering from guilt.
They let Osho fall, it was Jayesh who came with ambulance plane!
Jayesh! Maharishi Shantam, it sounds like you have dreams or nigtmares about this man every night. That is the thing about negativity, 99% of the time it requires the other.
Quite surprising how people like you are so concerned with the external world when all the time actually living in an internal world, as we all do. The slogan of late has been ‘be the change’. Imagine that.
Sannyas itself was founded on the premise of inner change. Yet the only thing you seem really concerned with is outer change. The real revolution is an inner one. You have missed that completely. I’m sure you can explain it all away with your warped logic – but man, are you stuck!
There is Swami Jayesh, who is part of the
management at the Ashram of Osho in Poona.
Then their is the Jayesh, who lives in Shantam’s imagination,
with whom Shantam has a very difficult marriage,
and they are not the same individual.
‘with whom Shantam has a very difficult marriage’
Yes I noticed.
Maybe if Mahadeva Shantam wrote an in-depth article about his whole number with the resort managment…..like really taking some time over it…..it might help exorcise the demon who takes possesion of his mind so much. None of my business to be honest.
Thing is, I enjoy some of the Chuddy King’s comments but when he slips in yet another gripe about the resort gang it is just boring and makes me wonder if he really is suffering from a pathological illness.
Quite a few of my comments have been deleted lately, but it really doesn’t bother me, because if the lads hadn’t dreamt up SN there would be no game to play. There have to be rules or there is no game. Same goes for the resort in a way. I’m not interested to go there but if I were and I knew the Chuddy King was in charge I’d give it a miss. Amongst other things he is a bit of a racist..something I have no time for in any form.
There are few people at Sannyasnews.
I don´t know their faces but presume they fit quite well for Butler´s job in President´s palace in Ukraine!
It is not an insult but compliment. After all, butlers many times are more humane and well read than presidents.
Only thing is their ego cannot bear more than to be a butler.
Yes…Butlers have also the right to be Fully Awake!
Revolution has taken shape in Ukraine.
There are still few pockets on earth waiting for their great Moments.
Every time a despot is kicked on the ass, evolution of freedom rejoices. Humanity goes Forward….
World belongs to its people. High priests or politicians are not more important than the pilots or train drivers or bus conductors.
PS-I don´t know whether such people will rejoice who think themselves above politics of common man because they smell the fragrance of some Indian guru’s armpits.
Worthy comments, perhaps, Shantam.
But if you seek to align your own ‘ashram politics’ concerns with such nation-shaking upheavals then you are simply plumbing new depths of delusion and scaling new heights of self-importance.
And that would be extremely silly, wouldn’t it? I mean, you surely can’t be that stupid – can you?!
Hey, Che Shantam I just had your guru on the astral phone and he told me that he felt you were extremely confused and it is therefore he requested that I pass on the following.
“I don’t preach revolution. I am utterly against revolution. I say unto you that my word for the future, and for those who are intelligent enough in the present, is rebellion. What is the difference?
“Rebellion is individual action; it has nothing to do with the crowd. Rebellion has nothing to do with politics, power, violence. Rebellion has something to do with changing your consciousness, your silence, your being. It is a spiritual metamorphosis.”
Spiritual Metamorphosis!
Just by writing such words don´t think, Lokesh you or class of 1979 are the one who have got it.
If you have gone through such thing, be sure, those who are diametrically different than you have also gone through.
I doubt on that man´s Metamorphosis, who will use some words from Osho to condemn astrology. It shows inbuilt mediocrity.
People receiving calls at call centres hardly become the share holders of that company.
“Man I have gone through Spiritual Metamorphosis.”
“How?”, enquired the friend.
“Just go into my bed room and see the books on the side table.”, answered the host, while combing his hair with the hands.
After the happening, he has stopped using the”hairbrush”.
Che Shantam, not uncommon for you, you are missing the point entirely.
Whether or not I have gone through a spiritual metamorphosis is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you claim Osho to be your spritual master, yet your behaviour constantly suggests that you wish to completely ignore many of Osho’s fundamental teachings and do in fact move in quite the opposite direction from that which your spiritual master recommends.
No doubt you will sidetrack the issue with some metaphors nobody will understand or some self-righteous bluster but that will not alter the fact that you are fighting for change on the outside i.e. revolution and all in the name of Osho while the man who you clam to be your guiding light tells you that, ‘I don’t preach revolution. I am utterly against revolution. I say unto you that my word for the future, and for those who are intelligent enough in the present, is rebellion.’ And then goes on to deliver a concise description of what rebellion means to him.
Thick-skinned you may well be, but I for one cannot help but wonder how you manage to perpetuate such contrary behaviour to what your guru recommends and feel fine with it. One can only conclude that you are speaking from a dream and that for reasons of your own you have become comfortable with that dream and do not wish to be woken up with it. In which case all I can say is dream on.
Lokesh,
Let us face it. We all ignore certain fundamental teachings of the master.
I try to incorporate those parts, which are consciously ignored by the collective mass.
Sometimes there is a method in the madness, many times methods radiate the madness!
Someone wanted to be the eyes, someone nose.
Many thought just to be an hair in the beard will be enough.
head and heart are in the court
to get acknowledgment from the State.
I was the youngest one,
Surely I am the asshole!
Che Shantam, why not call a spade a spade and address the issue in a more personal way and say ‘I’ ignore certain fundamental teachings of the master? By saying ‘we’ it implies that we are all in this together, which in this case I most certainly am not.
Osho is not my master. It is you who claims that he is your master, which sets us on a very different footing. The real master is not the one who gathers the most disciples but the one who creates the most masers in their own right. The idea is to become free of the master, not hang on to him for the rest of your life by creating ever greater attachments to the master.
Now we have people who have to meditate by Osho’s samadhi in the hope that by doing so they will become liberated from limited ego self, all the time ignoring the fact that they have become attached to something else. And thus the wheel turns.
What a load of self-important drivel.
Rationalising away your wilful avoidance of your master’s words, avoiding responsibility by assuming “we all” do likewise. What a joke!
But the biggest joke is that you imagine you’re qualified to pronounce on how his former ashram is to be run, how his work is to continue, while knowing that you consciously ignore his fundamental teachings.
And that, folks, is a good example of the type of mentality that likes to build a ‘religion’:
Thoroughly mediocre – yet so well-meaning, so sincere – self-deluded hypocrisy.
And, Shantam, I note your habitual non-response to me, the latest example being yesterday, 10.22pm.
SD, my feeling is that Shantam does not even look at followups to his posts. He is too busy creating the next non sequitor, or trying to make every string a differently angled debate about Jayesh!
Shantam obviously had a wonderful primary visit to the ashram, and when he returned, expected everything to be the same.
Because he doesn’t meditate, or pay attention to anything Osho says, he is unable to recognize that his expectations that the second visit would be a repeat of the first, is the problem. That the expectations are the problem, not Jayesh.
One might say you can’t step in the same ashram twice.
Viral, pls come here, because your writing is relates to here, to a new opening.
Adi Loki, I am interested in Viral’s plans. I am not my mother, I did primal 4 four times. I learned from someone that you can fall in love many times. That’s the way to let the energy to rise. If you kept your awareness arising too. It (Viral’s plan) would be more fun for you too than sitting with your beedie smoking ”guru” in Bangalore. You could do the dj thing.
Hi Viral, I am your fan at the moment. But no more tummy photos, pls. I did write here already a long time ago about my doubts of osho’s lasts words being ”any kind of dream”.. I am in my metamorphorphis process level worm b, so I expect many others have come to the same conclusion that there must be final words tape…also at the hands of more that one, because of past experience. And that makes me sad that these people do not come out. However, there is some hope with Anando’s book. Let’s see if it turns to trust.
And some female vanity. I am going to ask my goldsmith friend to re make my original mala from January 1990 so incredible beautiful, fashionable and juicy that even all my business partners in the west will just love it. And perhaps wear it all the time.
So, Thank you for inspiration. I am definitely open for inner and outer revolution. and many other silent people would also.
Viral does not interest me at all and neither do his plans. It could be the case that he is a chump in need of attention or a brilliant planner. I’m just not concerned about all that political shite. Never have been and never will be….its lower chakra material. I did enjoy Tim Leary’s Politics of Estasy back in the sixties and that is about it.
Fresch, my wife, a friend and I were the progenitors of the first officially sanctoned by Osho discotheque back in 78 in Koregan Park. It was called Caravanserai. Sannyasins were always the best crowd to play music for….they dance at the drop of a hat.
During the eighties on Ibiza, sannyasins gained free admission to all the clubs, because the knew how to get the action going on the dancefloor.
Yes, were I to visit Poona again I’d no doubt spin a few funky tunes and I’d love to get over to the sannyas event at Harida’s and Nartan’s place in Portugal to help make it happen this summer. Today I just received an invite for a seasonal residency as a DJ on Ibiza. Not bad considering I will be 63 this year. I still love to dance. In fact I just returnd from a market where the whole crowd got boogieing to a local rock band. Absolutely marvelous. You are really only as old as you feel and dancing is for sure one of the best ways to simply feel good about everything. Dance was always a biggie for sannyasins and I always loved Osho for encouraging that.
Better to have danced and developed arthritis,
than never to have danced at all.
Yes, I agree and I don’t sufer from arthrits….yet.
Shantam does not MEDITATE
Shantam does not know OSHO VISION
Shantam does not know FUNDAMENTALS OF OSHO
There are scholars giving pass or fail, just because they have read few paperbacks.
Best lovers are those dickheads, who always stay behind the security of their Levis 501!
No, not “paperbacks”, Shantam, just your stuck-in-the-past, hopelessly nostalgic, crypto-racist, unintelligent nonsense at SN suffices, thanks very much.
Except, of course, the first three statements in this last post of yours.
Has an honest self-assessment finally dawned? Or is this just a ploy of your politician’s mind? You know, a pretence at rudimentary self-knowledge, in order to catch us all off guard, as it were?
Whatever your motives (and don’t worry, I know what they are) these are the truest things you’ve ever said here. No doubt whatsoever.
http://fuckyeahpsychology.tumblr.com/post/816237943/facts-dont-necessarily-have-the-power-to-change
Let us say Lokesh goes to hospital. He has a problem with his eyes.
After wards he goes to his local and tell to his follower friends, ” What a wastage of money. I wonder, why they have so many departments. I think Eyes, ENT and general medicine are enough.”
Only through our expressions, we show who we are. In silence, everybody is a Buddha!
I actually have great respect for the medical profession. A team of doctors skills being the only reason that I am writing to you now.
Only through our expressions, we show who we are.
Ehm…well, Sri Shantam, you said it not I.
In silence, everybody is a Buddha!
I reckon you are exaggerrating. I’ve met silent people who are just silent but there was little Buddhalike about them.
Parmartha, my posts are not about jayesh.
He is only a symptom. Real reason is the guilt of your kind of life long disciples
Your kind of people can confront gods of hell and heaven but not Jayesh.
Reason is simple. Your Bhagwan was packed by your own governments, neither you could raise the voice when ship was getting hole nor when it was packed to junk yard.
This pain, this guilt is obvious all around!
Living in denial whole life and yet pretending to be New man!
I hope, you see the whirl of collective illusion. Sad part is, most of such people are first class individuals.
.
This one really takes the nutter of the month cup.
I’m telling ye captain, the engines’ll no’ take it.
That is Sri Shantam’s latest rubbish, not Arps cartoon, which does capture something well in regards the village idiot’s condition.
Lokesh, let me write it truthfully.
How so ever I criticise Jayesh and Amrito, let us say I have a chance to meet them or meet any enlightened guy in the block. Million times I will chose them.
There is a common bonding. They stay with Osho and His programmes; they did not go here and there to get an injection of someone´s energy.
Difference in policy matters are different issues. And I feel as a right to say my voice. I am also one of those, who have no hunger to know, in which part of Nowluck some daddy ji is sitting.
I would have appreciated your walk if after Osho, you could walk on your own. Billions of people are doing this. The way I know from your posts, you have still some hunger for new Papa Ji.
Your heavy reaction against Rajneesh is a clear sign. Because he cannot be your papaji so a great sarcasm against those who have found some missing link in him.
May be ask Satyadeva, May be the mother ´s masculine copy is somewhere!
Drinking baby feed in mother´s lap and dreaming about meditation, Vision of this or that!
Today I was thinking, why Rajneesh and his friends don´t participate any more. Is it because of me or other holy grolly rowdies?
With hand on the heart I can say, if any one does not write any more on sannyasnews or he wants to write on sannyasnews but does not write because of me, I will leave this forum.
Why not to make space for someone?
People don´t see the mirror but want to show. it is their empowerment!
No surprise at all that you’d choose to avoid “any enlightened guy”. Of course you would, you want to remain in your convenient little comfort zone, where you can play your political games (inside your head) with and against others of perhaps similar mind, remain ‘spiritually unchallenged’ (as it were) and delude yourself you’re doing something ‘important’, something ‘significant’ for ‘humanity’.
Parmartha would seem to be spot on re your not really bothering to read and consider what others say. For example, some time ago he specifically pointed out to you that, contrary to your preferred, self-concocted version of the facts, I’m not to be considered as a ‘devotee’ of Mother Meera.
Yet (quite apart from demonstrating a complacently negative ignorance of who and what she is) you have chosen to ignore him, continuing to wilfully misrepresent me so you can dump a few more lumps of your ignorant shit – a thoroughly puerile, dishonest and offensive ploy that only serves to undermine your already minimal credibility.
And you think you deserve to have a say in the present and future of Osho’s Sannyas? Shown up here time and again as a blundering, self-important, shallow fool, you seem to have no clue how utterly laughable is such a idea.
shantam prem says:
‘Today I was thinking, why Rajneesh and his friends don´t participate any more. Is it because of me or other holy grolly rowdies?’
They are no longer here because there is nothing for them here. They were business people and as no one was buying they left. They had nothing to offer, and were only interested in taking… if there was anything to take. Your holiness probably upset them too.
Guru Shantam, you really have not a clue what you are talking about.
You say, ‘The way I know from your posts, you have still some hunger for new Papa Ji.’
That simply is not true. I was discussing Mooji with my wife a few days ago. There is a sangha forming on Ibiza to get the man over here for satsang. To me he looks like a kind of enlightened chap and if he visits I will probably go along for the ride, but that is about it. I’m done with external manifestatations of the self, full stop. I moved into the guru trip 100% and come out on the other side free of it.
You conclude with the following nonsense…..’With hand on the heart I can say, if any one does not write any more on sannyasnews or he wants to write on sannyasnews but does not write because of me, I will leave this forum.
Why not to make space for someone?’
Why not indeed, but there is no lack of space on SN. What are you talking about? Besides, I simply don’t believe you. You are just like most people on the planet. You believe you are speaking from one centralized ‘I’ when you are actually speaking from the Tower of Babel. If you stopped posting on SN….you would be missed, just like we would miss the village idiot for providing the psychological yardstick that says as long as you can’t ralate to that idiot you know that you are not nuts.
You who set yourself up as a would be spokesman for Osho’s vision…having never met the man or unerstood very much about him.
As for Swami Rajneesh, how could anyone who spent quality time around Osho take the man seriously. He is a joke unto himself and provides a service to those who need an Osho clone in order to play out the master and disciple game…to a limited extent. I wish them the best of luck, knowing that if they are in any way intelligent they will soon move on. Your level of being attracts your life and you get the master you deserve. Which brings me to my final point.
Chuddie King, I don’t know how it happened and it is none of my business, but I’d like to just mention that you come across as someone who pseudo-worships a dead guru whle denying the fact that you would be better off if you found a living teacher who showed you a way out of the cul-de-sac you are so identified and comfortable with. Such is your plight that even Swami Rajneesh could set you straight on that one, which in itself is an indication of how utterly confused you are…..even though, I must confess, I get a few laughs out of you.
It would be good to bear in mind the follwing story. I was participating in Teertha’s full-on encounter group back in 78. Someone asked something of me and Teertha said, ‘Don’t ask Lokesh, because he is the kind of person who will see someone sitting on a pile of shit and not tell the person, because he is having a good laugh about it.’
As you can see, I’ve changed.
Lokesh tells Shantam:
“…but I’d like to just mention that you come across as someone who pseudo-worships a dead guru whle denying the fact that you would be better off if you found a living teacher who showed you a way out of the cul-de-sac you are so identified and comfortable with. Such is your plight that even Swami Rajneesh could set you straight on that one, which in itself is an indication of how utterly confused you are.”
My sediments entirely.
>> you would be better off if you found a living teacher who showed you a way out of the cul-de-sac you are so identified and comfortable with.
Are you sure there is no app for that?
There is. It is called wakey-wakey.
They were business people,
selling milk pouches.
Mystery people don´t do business
They offer their wife´s boobs to suckle!
Stupidity and judgement has no limits!
I am married to a woman
Her name is Kheera
She has no brothers,
so I go and chat with my brothers.
I don´t have good relation with them,
but I chat with them,
because I don´t have brother in law.
Because Osho created some kind of disciples lines, so we are still communicating. Others did not do it, like South Indian Ammas.
They are like room renters, but no bathroom in the compound.
Go to railway station for daily needs!
MOD: ONE LINE EDITED HERE.
>> MOD: ONE LINE EDITED HERE.
You could have deleted the whole post. Shantam’s poetry is doing to the forum what Pune 3 is doing to the Osho movement.
NEWS!!! SHANTAM IS A CIA AGENT AND HERE TO DESTROY OUR GOOD NAME.
I honestly do not think anything will happen in puna again. And also most likely they loose the copyright in Europe etc. It’s only an osho centre in an Indian city. At some point Indian sanyasin take care of the place. But I always like it when somebody makes some action, like Viral did. I found it fun and creative. But true, pune is not interesting for most people and that is healthy.
I just saw a documentary about Cohen, where he tells the story we all know from osho that Arjuna was going for the big fight, he saw even his gurus there (this was new) and was wondering about it to krishna, who said you are all already dead, so just fullfill your destiny, I will decide, not you, how it will go.
So, if osho was to live, I heard him saying he would live in his people. If his living people are not interesting, then that’s end of the osho saga as well. And that’s healthy. I heard Mooji also had his sex scandals. But so, what to do? Perhaps it would be strange if osho’s people did not.
And the fact that it (pune) seems to go to Indians inevitably, seems to piss off many westerners. However, already now the real debate is more between the locals. But why not let go of that? Why not let Indians have their own local centre with samadhis etc they value.. Why bother?
>> And the fact that it (pune) seems to go to Indians inevitably, seems to piss off many westerners.
At some point the Jains will also come out of the closet and declare Osho their Tīrthaṅkara…
If you look around and cannot see the village idiot… then it is you.
Shants makes it too easy to hide behind. If he leaves we are all f**ked.
Well, if you are here critical with osho’s meditations and him being a master, you get a lot of “likes” around here. Everything else is a bit ridiculous Indian stuff.
Yes, Lokesh, I also remember (in a nutshell) you wrote, “Amrito is a nice chap in books.. Why bother about pune management, leave them doing what they do, Arun is a lizard..” So, I am sure Jayesh gives, is giving, you VIP-status in his heaven now and in future doing your dj or your writing. See how fun it is for you.
Did you know that half of the now puna therapists live in the tents during the summer, year after year. Vip therapists…it does not sound like Zorba the Buddha to me.. Earlier therapists seem to be so much more professional, at least have a roof. . they have customers on their own right. This mixed word for feeling both “shame” and “compassion” for somebody is not in my vocabulary again. Can somebody help?
Bodhi Vartan, judge your own photo which you have with Parmartha on the other thread or anyone can do the evolution on your behalf.
MOD: WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, PLEASE, SHANTAM?
It proves only my hypothesis, people who have not been with Osho or part of the challenge to manage their day-to-day life and also longing to be in the ashram are like frozen Pizzas who will hardly see the oven.
They will reach their expiry dates in the shelves with books!
And believe me, I am not saying out of sarcasm but with compassionate heart. People with Rajneesh are in much better position. If you cannot marry Marilyn Monroe, then marry at least someone. It is much better than wanking on DVD covers!
Lokesh can afford such high stand but not those boys who have not gone out of their home.
Mr. Editor,
It means in the photo of Vartan and Parmartha, it is not difficult to see, who has gone through Dynamic meditation and who has only read about it.
Fire in the belly needs to be channelized. People like Vartan need the Buddhafield more than anybody else.
I am really of the opinion, Spiritual books without meditation and without company of fellow seekers are pornographic by nature. They only create titillating effect without any substance.
I will say Satya deva is more pragmatic in this sense.
THE JAPANESE MASTER NAN-IN GAVE AUDIENCE
TO A PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY.
SERVING TEA, NAN-IN FILLED HIS VISITOR’S CUP,
AND KEPT POURING.
THE PROFESSOR WATCHED THE OVERFLOW
UNTIL HE COULD RESTRAIN HIMSELF NO LONGER:
STOP!
THE CUP IS OVERFULL, NO MORE WILL GO IN.
NAN-IN SAID:
LIKE THIS CUP,
YOU ARE FULL OF YOUR OWN OPINIONS AND SPECULATIONS.
HOW CAN I SHOW YOU ZEN
UNLESS YOU FIRST EMPTY YOUR CUP?
http://en.textsave.org/v4O
“It means in the photo of Vartan and Parmartha, it is not difficult to see, who has gone through Dynamic meditation and who has only read about it.”
You can actually tell all that from a photo? Can you tell what I had for breakfast?
I better warn you tho, I don’t do meditation, I am meditation. Look into my eyes… can you see the little fishes?
Parmartha and Vartan, You look extremely sweet on the photo. And when I come to London I really want to have a cup of tea with you. Shame on you shantam on this one.
You are welcome. Any Saturday morning in the Highgate Wood cafe some of us SN’s types meet! We’re human.
Isn’t it Queen’s Wood?!
It is Queens Wood. Swami P was having one of his senior moments (snigger).
Arpana, I like the professor in you. Good. *out breathing*
Thanks Fresch.
I like the professor in me as well.
Do you think I look like a professor?
I’ve seen you around Arpy. You definitely look better than you read.
Lol.lol
You look like Simon Schama, the historian.
To look sweet is one thing, to look meditative just another.
When I go to city, 99 % people look sweet.
“I better warn you tho, I don’t do meditation, I am meditation. Look into my eyes… can you see the little fishes?”
Do NHS have psychiatrist too on their roll?
One of my childhood friends is so meditative, so top of the class, he wants to give his classes to Supreme Court judges, to brain surgeons, to CEO´s of fortune 500 companies.
It is really not a joke. I can even give the link to his site.
Last year, he phoned me and said, ” Shantam ji, I have a good news to share. Someone who has attended my class will arrange my classes at White House.”
This bluff simply took my patience away. I said, ” Impossible is possible. But this is beyond.”
He freaked out, ” You are just jealous. What could not happen to you in spite of being in Pune for 20 years, it has happened to me. How you can bear it?”
Few months later, I phoned him with the feeling, ” Why to lose a friend? It is none of my business, what he thinks.”
Is there a need to say, he too has not repeated his White House story!
shantam prem says:
>> Do NHS have psychiatrist too on their roll?
Two weeks ago you said that I was too clever for psychiatrists. Make up your mind please.
You can ask a question if you want and I’ll tell you about the fishies.
Arps, you do not look like a professor, are you sailing a boat? Not too bad. Shantam, stop it really right now, do not make it worse, one time see it.
I was looking at my photo too.
No sir, I am not enlightened, nor awakened nor snoring.
Just sleeping!
Aw, personal photo time. Here is my favourite right now.
Yep, you’ve definitely met Osho, done dynamic meditation for several decades, are not only meditative but ‘meditation itself’ – and bear a rather, er, ‘striking’ resemblance to J. Krishnamurti.
If not ‘quite’ enlightened yet, still Grade 1 credibility New Man.
A credit to Reginald – er, I mean the Regiment – er, I mean the Regimen…er, I mean the Regime….
Hiding in plain site. Yep.
http://www.brixpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/timecrimes-cover.jpg
You remind me of the chap in Timecrimes (probably the best time travel film ever)
I am not puting any photos here, they would be too – sweet.
Loki, nooooo that one, worse than tummy photo.
dear bodhi vartan (24.february at 1.54 pm)
just start in the midst of all…
as i always look where i am “hooked” the one or the other way…
the “app” you asked? – or joke-lite as a cola-lite
both came through
you know one of the very paining me issues
has been
that we may not have understood or could not take it
to have an “empty chair” in the auditorium
buddha hall
or elsewhere
love
madhu
MOD: NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN HERE, MADHU. PLEASE EXPLAIN!
tea time – arpana
tea time
and thank you for this
madhu
dear moderators
that’s a big one for me
and thank you for asking
but the response will need time-space
maybe seeing the lines in me
tomorrow
love
madhu
Arpana is it really you with the berghous black T shirt?
Not just professor, I think this gentleman can be an A grade Therapist or meditation camp leader.
In my perception, there is definitely some gravity, reliability in the person.
Your pic Shantam? Let’s be seeing you.
Very fair, Sir,
like all the institutions of the world, Sannyasnews is also becoming transparent. Here I am, one of the backbenchers of Osho´s Misfit Parliament!
India´s newest political party based on anti-corruption plank have made muffler the most sought after attire. So I thought too to click my selfie for the emerging political revolution led by my kind of people.
Many times thought has crossed my mind to join this political force like many other educated idealists, but my inner calling is to stick only with Osho´s meditative politics. Osho ashram Pune is all what inspires me.
Okay, okay, by popular demand here is a photo of yours truly with my beloved Prita. 125 years beween us and still rockin’,
thank you lokesh
“believing the possible after breakfast today…”
what a nice pic and how elaborate the digital work – outs of the backgroundings..
that was a nice surprise to look at
see your eyes as well as the eyes of your beloved
as
and that is even as important to see what’s around your smile
reminded me of your own record of describing what transformations happened since teertha has given you a feedback decades ago…
makes it more easy for me now
to take one or the other indigestion problems i had here
thank you for this and good morning and have you all a beautiful spring-time
madhu
well
dear moderators
to the dear friends i meet on some caravanserai spots getting by chance more and more acquainted -
(trying to show up with my “home-work” as i promised yesterday)
“the empty chair”
i have been feeling that as one and a very important one too
maybe most important
as a heritage
a very ESSENTIAL one
to understand what meditation is all about
and what osho pointed to too in innumerable ways (including the jokes too)
-
what we call death
dis-appearing
is indeed an ultimate ZEN stick, so to say
showing up in a merciless clear-voyance (like death does too)
what’s underneath delusional appearances also of the rest of the “family”
so – it’s not only about what we see as individuals but also of the estates of groups and assemblies
around a nucleus so to say
indulging more or less in the delusion as well as deeply enjoying “we are all one”
“one love affair”
and so on
a longing i don’t want to defame at all
as
the deepening of insights into issues like “coherence” in terms of physics
and the need to say goodbye to narrow-mindedness and to broaden the view and understanding
is
connected with what we might call essential questions and the drive to go for the one or other “life-pilgrimages” too
i see it like this – friends (at least the ones who REALLY met osho/bhagwan like me; i did and i am still doing in an “invitation-to-”sammasati” terms)
we have been ULTIMATEly FORTUNATE
to be part of a gathering and a togetherness quite unique
especially because on every level happening in a “contradictory” way
what a challenge – never-ending challenge
as i see reality happening contradictorily
yet evolving if we like it or not
and
he never promised a rose garden without thorns
also he did foresee what he called “mushrooming” of “gurudom”
(also in his name)
and?
maybe gave it a good laugh? who really knows?
the few weeks
i enjoy having every day a new chance to go deeper in digging what my trial-and-error to contribute here on this spot
is all about
it’s a living thing this “digging”
and (sorry, guys who tend to misunderstand that) it’s a love affair too
to that what i may call “an empty chair”
being ever so grateful for THIS
so thank you all for the many opportunities, also these ones pointing to my indigestion troubles
so this was the first try
i want to post it – to honor a question
and on the way also would like to re-dignify somewhat i call heavy chapters of the last decades in my life
feeling LOST
in a beautiful way not only the sun outside shining here-now today
the beauty that lies in-between the words (darshan diary number x…)
“only the LOSER can win THIS (kind of) game”
is not made for misers or immature people
that’s how i understood it, am understanding it
and the processing not ending yet
just another try (and error) here
love
madhu
Madhu, have you considered The Empty Rolls-Royce meditation?
Where is your photo, Madhu?
And Frank, Martyn, kavita, Fresch, Mini kang, Dharman and other fellow Osho journalists!
Yes Sri Shantam Guru Mahanonsense is right…time for the rest of you to come out of the closet.
aah, thank you
you know
i am technically such a ZERO
often i had the urge these weeks to post one or the other photo of nature as i am very busy with photographing of pilgrimage pics
and want to make a poetry of a photo book of a female wanderer
with texting also
the truth is i didn t manage up to now
to share the way i seem to be longing for
neither got technical sufficient support although i really went for it
nor my newly bought Apple per credit seems to be functioning the way i would like to
the last i might have been in common with so many “users” being used as well
anyway
i love to share my joy
today and this moment
just give it a try
and off that goes …. again….to an unknowable space
of ours
madhu
ps
will ask again for support technically
no, bodhi vartan
the “empty rolls royce meditation” has not happened to me
i guess everybody is so unique and has his or her own issues to dive deep
maybe YOU can tell about this meditation
that’s the art of sharing
and i would love to listen to or read or see
what you found out then when looking IN in that meditation special
so
looking forward to that
sincerely yours
madhu