SANNYAS NEWS FACEBOOK PAGE?

Lokesh presents his thoughts on the pros and cons of Sannyas News relocating to Facebook.

There has been some talk of creating a Sannyas News Facebook page. Here are some of the pros and cons. Perhaps some of the regulars will add their comments to this and help create a clearer picture.

SN, as it exists now, is a well functioning blog site. It is easy to navigate and is in many ways better than Facebook. I like it how it is, but am not opposed to change. The problem with SN right now is that there are simply not enough people interested in the site, very little in the way of new bloggers, and a general lack of new stimulating articles. Could be a sign of the Osho times. There is still plenty that can be discussed but nobody is really interested in creating articles, probably because they see it as a waste of time, because only a handful of people are actually reading the articles. This would, of course, change if hundreds of people were participating.

One thing I have learned from the publication of our book is that very few sannyasins have heard of SN. Facebook would definitely attract more comments, but it is hard to predict what kind of comments. More is not necessarily better. The downside is that Facebook would not provide such a comprehensive access to previous articles etc. Also some of the regulars are not keen on Facebook, which is understandable.

I’ve checked out many sannyasin/Osho Facebook pages. In general, they are all pretty boring: Osho quotes, Osho pictures, the same old, same old. Yesterday I read an Osho quote on a Facebook page about transcending sex by the age of 46 because one will realize what a stupid game it is etc. Taking into account the current social media revelations about Osho’s secret sex life, which shows he had in no way transcended sex by the age of 46, makes me wonder how come people are posting quotes about transcending sex from a man who clearly had not. It strikes me as idealistic, mixed-up bullshit. Meanwhile, we have Bodhisattva Arun rubbing hysterical women’s foreheads in Nepal to help them see the light. So much nonsense being perpetrated in Osho’s name. Nothing new there.

The Facebook pages that are attracting a lot of sannyasins’ attention right now are the ones detailing the under-age sex accounts from sannyasin women, which took place in Pune One and The Ranch and, to a lesser extent, in Poona Two. Some of these revelatory posts receive hundreds of comments, mostly sympathetic. Personally, I don’t think SN needs to join the scandal. Sannyas has a bad enough name already. Why add anything more that will make sannyasins look even worse in the public eye?

I was hopeful that with the book’s publication it might help generate more interest in SN. This may in fact happen but alas, very slowly. There are over 2,500,000 books published annually. To make inroads into the mainstream publishing market one needs mainstream publisher clout, which we do not have. Once in a while an independent book breaks through into the mainstream, but very rarely. The SN book is targeting a small niche market and that is about the extent of it. It will not become a best-seller.

On that note, I have only seen one book review published by an SN regular. It costs nothing to write a positive review if you have purchased the book. You can really help promote the book and help our site garner more attention by writing a positive review, so what are you waiting on? It is our most potent tool. Please use it. Five stars are a real plus, but honesty comes first. Thanks.

On a personal level ,In regards creating an SN Facebook page, I have mixed feelings about it. It is a pity SN is not generating more interest than it does, but surely, as I’ve said already, it is a sign of the times. One way to generate more interest in SN is via the crooked path of sensationalism. I don’t think SN needs to stoop to that level. We just need more creative input in the form of intelligent articles and networking. On one hand Osho is a bigger name than ever, on the other his name is fading with the passage of time. I could say more. Now it is once again up to the regulars to keep the ball rolling, if it is indeed destined to roll.

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96 Responses to SANNYAS NEWS FACEBOOK PAGE?

  1. satchit says:

    SN is like an old tree with its special habitat.

    To move and change the habitat will not be good for the tree.
    Maybe the tree even will not survive.

    New birds coming is fine for the tree.
    If not, this is fine too.

  2. kavita says:

    Even though I learned to use a computer/PC during my pre-sannyas years while working in the hotel industry, internet was first introduced to me in the early 2000s by Vani, my Friend who lived in the US of A then, who wanted me to connect with her through emails (from an internet cafe: we went to this cafe & I had my first yahoo account! Which I never accessed!

    In 2007, when I gave up my farm living and came back to city living in Poona, I bought a PC, Big Prem introduced me to Facebook & that aided me to learn to navigate the internet & I kinda became a pro @ FB! During this time, one day while conversing with Shantam, he introduced me to Sannyasnews website.

    I remembered, after reading the old articles on SN at that time, that while being at Swami Rajneesh’s place in Poona in early 2008, SR would read aloud some of his posts from SN.

    In 2012, I deactivated my FB account for time-energy management reasons.

    Now I don’t really know if I would like to be a FB’er, frankly I would prefer this current set-up more than FB for pretty much the same reasons Lokesh has already mentioned. Yes, would open a fresh FB account if need be!

  3. Sannyasnews page can co-exist with the mother roots, i e. sannyasnews.com. This is with every other news media also.

    Facebook is like a high street, footfalls come on their own. So a small unknown site like sannyasnews must use this opportunity.

  4. frank says:

    I like the tree analogy. Also, SN reminds me of a really old pair of shoes with several holes and with the soles superglued to keep them on. You keep on expecting them to disintegrate but as it is, they just refuse to die and they are extremely well-fitting and still very walkable.

    I suppose it might be possible to have a Facebook page as well as the site, but I`m not sure how that would work. Seeing as how most potential customers, as Lokesh says, haven`t even heard of SN, maybe put some old articles on the Fb page in order to whip up some response?

    Trouble is, Fb is so much its own world that it tends to suck all into its own algorithm.

  5. On experimental basis let us start sannyasnews page at facebook with new article submitted by me on Enlightenment thing, spiritual version of G-spot.

    Best way to check the water is to put the feet inside.

    • frank says:

      Anand Yogi very much agrees:

      “Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
      Certainly, best way to advance is to put foot inside mouth!
      Certainly, your insight that enlightenment thing is spiritual version of G-spot must be shared with the greatest amount of people on the Facebook in order bring regime change to usher in 1000 yuga era of superconsciousness!

      Do not forget to also mention, as Swami Bhorat has made clear, that meditation is ultimate boob-job and enlightenment is like greatest penis-enlargement scam of all time!

      Disciples who sign up attempt to stretch, pull, bulk up and tenderise organ but all end up with severely damaged member that is in worse shape than when they started!

      And remember, Shanatambhai has not just talked the talk he has also walked the walk and mashed the meat!

      Yahoo!”

  6. Klaus says:

    Step 1:
    If SN will go to FB.

    Step 2:
    Who will do some quality control on the Article to be posted?

    Step 3:
    Will this be done by a Committee?

    Step 4:
    I guess there must be some space for enlightentertainment?

    Cheers from here.

    • swamishanti says:

      Personally, I don’t think FB with all its tracking & monitoring etc. should be merged with SN. I am ok with the site as it is, as others have expressed. It is an old tree with a few birds crowing in the branches.
      You can also enjoy the winter when the branches are naked.

      Lokesh, I think you are a bit bored and could possibly try another hobby such as scuba diving. Or if you did create a fb page, it should be something else, not Sannyasnews.
      Have a happy Christmas.
      Here’s an old issue of SN for you to enjoy until I get back :

      • Sannyasnews can add more page three photos.

        Swamishanti is the right person to offer daily dose of Sex & Sannyas combination, it will also be a true homage to master who used explosives in otherwise stale Jaina art of Spiritual cooking.

        • frank says:

          Certainly, page three photos of disciples with the perky breasts must be staple diet of Sannyas-ass News Jaina stovetop hotpot fleshpot Assbook page!

          Mixing idea of skyclad Jaina Tirthankaras with skyclad busty spiritual page 3 totty to create Tittythankaras was certainly masterstroke USB of CEO of market-leader in strip-chakra searches, and will certainly help attract Facebook fiddlers, neo-nonces, pedosattvas, jailbait jnanis, meditative molesters and groping gurus to new Sanyas-ass News page giving many clicks!

          Yahoo!

        • swamishanti says:

          SP, Sri Krishna watches the gopi girls emerge after hiding their clothes whilst they were bathing in the river.
          5,500 years ago.
          Now I know why Indian women keep their saris on nowadays when they go in the sea or wash in the river.

      • Lokesh says:

        Shanti, I find SN fine as it is also. I wrote the article because there was a need for it, not because I feel bored or in need of a hobby. I am fortunate in the sense that boredom is something I rarely suffer from. Perhaps you would be so kind as to share how you managed to conclude that I feel bored. I already have a scuba diving licence but rarely use it because I have a problem with decompressing my ears, unlike my son who free dives to a depth of 40 metres on a single breath, which is really quite remarkable if you think about it.

        Right now I am off into the woods for a magic ceremony. Yahoo!

        • swamishanti says:

          I don’t think that many sannyasins haven’t heard of SN, it is just that they are not really interested in contributing.

          Most of them will feel out of sync with some of the views expressed on SN, after all a lot of them are into Osho from the Ranch days, as well as Osho from the Pune Two days – not just the earlier days.

          These Osho videos on YouTube, mainly from the talks given during the last six years of his life, are getting thousands of upvotes and are very popular.

          Personally, I also find inspiration from many of the later talks, just as much as the earlier ones.

          Thus the doubts expressed by a tiny minority, here on SN, that he may have gone downhill after the move to the new commune in the US, simply doesn’t resonate with the vast majority of Osho fans and sannyasins today, who have trust, or even those who indentified as sannyasins in the past and are doing different things nowadays.

          Someone shared a quote with me the other day:

          “Gurdjieff lived a life which was very mysterious; it was not public. His school was a hidden school. What was happening there, people were simply guessing.

          And that’s what is going to happen in the new phase of my work. My commune will become hidden, underground. It will have a facade on the outside: the weavers and the carpenters and the potters…that will be the facade. People who will come as visitors, we will have a beautiful showroom for them; they can purchase things. They can see the creativity of the sannyasins: paintings, books, woodwork…They can be shown around – a beautiful lake, swimming pools, a five-star hotel for them – but they will not know what is really happening. That which will be happening will be almost all underground. It has to be underground, otherwise it cannot happen.

          I have a few secrets to impart to you, and I would not like to die before I have imparted them to you — because I don’t know anybody else now alive in the world who can do that work. I have secrets from Taoism, secrets from tantra, secrets from yoga, secrets from Sufis, secrets from Zen people. I have lived in almost all the traditions of the world; I have been a wanderer in many lives. I have gathered much honey from many flowers.

          And the time, sooner or later, will come when I will have to depart – and I will not be able to enter again in the body. This is going to be my last life. All the honey that I have gathered I would like to share with you, so that you can share it with others, so that it does not disappear from the earth.

          This is going to be a very secret work; hence, Ajit Saraswati, I cannot speak about it. I think I have already spoken too much! I should not have said even this. The work will be only for those who are utterly devoted.

          Right now, we have a big press office to make as many people as possible aware of the phenomenon that is happening here. But in the new commune the real work will simply disappear from the world’s eyes. The press office will function – it will function for other purposes. People will go on coming, because from the visitors we have to choose; we have to invite people who can be participants, who can dissolve in the commune. But the real work is going to be absolutely secret. It is going to be only between me and you.

          And there will not be much talk between me and you either. More and more I will become silent, because the real communion is through energy, not through words. As you will be getting ready to receive the energy in silence, I will become more and more silent. But I am keeping a great treasure for you. Be receptive….”

          (Osho: ‘The Dhammapada’ vol 2, 1979)

          Today a lot of people appreciate Osho’s unique message, after he had begun speaking again in 1984, just as much as his earlier talks before the period of silence.

          Sometimes I have been watching clips from Osho from Rajneeshpuram and have greatly appreciated his light and beauty as he expresses various spiritual truths. The transmission is still there.
          If he was inebriated a little in some of the clips, to me that just makes him that much more beautiful.

          He was able to speak with clarity and full awareness and you can see that when you look at the words on a page.

          Therefore, most seekers who trust Osho have no interest in writing or contributing here.

          Stories, revelations about Osho’s sex life are not really anything new. The man himself said that he was not celibate, or that he was right now but had not been in the past and would not be again once his back got better.(1985).

          Osho wanted his New Man, his enlightened rebel to be down-to-earth, ordinary people, who would be able to enjoy beers and girlfriends and the material world.

          He wanted to destroy the great perceived distance between the enlightened and the unenlightened.

          In the past, spiritual men havebeen placed on a pedestal.

          Whereas one of India’s greatest spiritual influences,Krishna, is depicted as playing games with his girlfriends, hiding their clothes so he can watch them naked, and has been described as later taking sixteen thousand wives, the more modern Krishna Consciousness movement that has developed out of more recent devotees of Krishna have condemned sex in a similar way to the Roman Catholic Church.

          Any guru in the ISKCON line is expected to remain celibate. For married couples, sex is just for the purposes of procreation and should only take place once a month.

          In the Roman Catholic Church, if sexual expression is sought outside marriage, or in circumstances in which the procreative function of sexual expression within marriage is deliberately frustrated (e.g. the use of artificial contraception), the Catholic Church expresses her concern.

          Additionally, adultery, divorce, polygamy and ‘free union’ (free love), are grave offences against the dignity of marriage.

          • Lokesh says:

            Shanti, an interesting and thoughtful post.

            I think Osho talking about sharing secrets is a lot of hokum. Osho told me personally that the big secret is that there are no secrets. I reckon that is true. You can find out about absolutely anything if you know how to go about finding it.

            You go on to say that “Osho wanted his New Man, his enlightened rebels, to be down-to-earth, ordinary people, who would be able to enjoy beers and girlfriends and the material world.” If that is indeed true, which I think it is, what would enlightened rebels need esoteric secrets for?

            Towards the end of his life Osho focused on Zen. Zen is not something that has secrets. It is a practice in which there is no other space, no other time or any other moment other than this one.
            It would be interesting if you were to outline what form these mysterious secrets might have taken, because right now it sounds like a typical Osho ploy to keep people interested, believing that some great secrets will be revealed.

            Your comment mentions that “Gurdjieff lived a life that was very mysterious; it was not public. His school was a hidden school. What was happening there, people were simply guessing.”

            Yes, at the time that was probably true and most definitely needed because of war and persecution. And to this day nobody really knows the source of Mr G’s teaching, although there is speculation that it came from a Sufi Monastery in the Himalayas.

            Mr G also said that really there is no big secret because there is no need for secrecy because hardly anyone is interested in life’s deeper mysteries. He also said that consciousness is quantifiable. There is not that much to go around. This does not pose a problem for the seeker because the vast majority of humanity is not interested enough to tap into their share of consciousness and therefore there is an abundance of consciousness for the true seeker. It’s no secret. You can read about it on Sannyas News.

            • Klaus says:

              Shanti,

              A considerate post.

              The videos of Osho on the tube not only find many viewers, but they also get very positive comments from people of all sorts of nationalities and faiths. Imo that is different to other videos – and/or blogs – where all kinds of inside and outside fighting is going on in the comments. Sooner or later.

              I remember another Osho quote:
              “All that is essential can only be communicated in silence”….
              Possibly because otherwise the words get in the way.

              As Lokesh is citing and describing within ZEN: no need for special things happening besides carrying water and washing the dishes.

              Or as AY says:
              “In the end, everything happens.”

              • frank says:

                AY says:
                “Perfectly correct, Swami Shanti!
                Certainly, the untrusting baboons of SN are ignorant of the existence of many secrets that have yet to be revealed!

                Swami Bhorat also has many secrets that may only ever be known to the chosen few!

                Truth is, that along with Nine Unknown Men of Mighty Bhorat, Swami Bhorat was also in contact with secret brotherhood ring high in Himalayas from whom he inherited much secret knowledge and also rituals involving hidden tantric info about deflowering 12 year-old girls and secretly conducting tantric strip chakra searches on trusting disciples in order to gain spiritual power and save rotting humanity!

                Certainly, story of Krishna ogling naked girls at local swimming pool (which ritual was also conducted many times in Arambol in 1970s) has esoteric significance for those fortunate enough to have eyes to see by being first in line in hand-out for limited resources of consciousness! Facts of the matter is there is not enough love to go round, so it is absolutely necessary for chosen few to grab it while they can and pop a few cherries pronto because when it`s gone it`s gone!

                Even today many disciples have no idea about the secret work that went on strictly between Swami Bhorat and pantyless female disciples in privacy of his aircon room! Lingams appeared from nowhere! Chakras were rubbed! Vital prana was generated and transferred into various chakras! Substantial transmissions were transmitted!

                Certainly, these things and many others have remained secret to this day and need to be kept away from prying eyes of unconscious masses, loveless rotten lower humanity, local constabulary, vice squad and Operation Yewtree for spiritual welfare of higher consciousness on this planet which perpetrators have spilt so many valuable vital fluids to save!”

                Yahoo!

                • frank says:

                  Perfectly correct, Klaus!

                  Such secret knowledge must not be expressed in words and can only be preserved in an atmosphere of complete silence by true disciples!

              • Klaus says:

                Maybe ‘communicate’ wasn’t/isn’t the right verb, as it sets the communicator apart.

                see
                view
                experience
                realise

                might be more fitting.

                …the non-experiential.

                So, everyone is equal in the seeing, viewing, realising etc.

            • satchit says:

              “Osho told me personally…there are no secrets.”

              If he told you personally, Loco, then it must be true.

              A true information!
              A true believer! LOL

              Message from the Centhe Of Hidden Secrets (COHS)!

            • swamishanti says:

              @lokesh “It would be interesting if you were to outline what form these mysterious secrets might have taken….”

              There is a secret , but, sorry, I can’t tell you. Because it’s a secret.

              It’s true that there were many Zen discourses from around 1988- April 1989,until he went into silence, which often gets mentioned, during this time there were also periods where Osho was too sick to come out and speak. But from 1987, back in Pune 2, Osho also gave talks on Kahlil Gibran, the ‘mantra series’, Hari Om Tat Sat, Satyam Shivam Sundram, Om Shanti Shanti, etc., ‘the Golden Future’, ‘The New Dawn’, ‘The Rebel’, ‘The Invitation’, ‘Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh on Basic Human Rights’, ‘A New Vision of Women’s Liberation’, ‘Yahoo!: the Mystic Rose’..etc.

              • Lokesh says:

                I really don’t believe there are any more secrets to be revealed by Osho. After all, he authored a book titled ‘The Book of Secrets’. It is packed with secrets. What more can one ask for?

                This whole secrets thing opens the door for the priests. The secret holders, the key holders, the special class of people who make out that they are privy to secrets, and that you have to deal with in order to find out the secret of secrets. Osho was dead against that kind of shit. Therefore, he brought everything out into the open for everyone to share and in one fell swoop did away wish the wannabe priests.

          • satyadeva says:

            “I don’t think that many sannyasins haven’t heard of SN, it is just that they are not really interested in contributing.”

            Shanti, do you think it would be worthwhile to advertise SN eg “hundreds of articles, thousands of comments on sannyas-related issues” etc. at Sannyas-related facebook sites, together with presenting Lokesh’s book?

            • Lokesh says:

              SD, the focus should be attracting attention to this site. I have saturated sannyasin Facebook pages with enough flyers advertising the holy book. No need to overdo it.

              I accidentally ordered far too many copies of the book at retail price. So any social events I attend where there might be a few potential punters I take a couple of copies along. Only two copies left. Only one sannyasin I sold a book to had heard about SN. Half a dozen other sannyasins I talked to had never heard of SN. Facebook flyers advertising this site might be a good idea. Any ideas most welcome.

              • frank says:

                In marketing they say that the most important thing is you have to identify your target market.
                Normally that is established along lines of age, gender, nationality, location, interests, persuasions, religion etc. but in a nutshell that can maybe be condensed to “Who is your ideal customer?”

                Then you find out where he/she hangs out and convince them that the place that where they will get what they want/need is…..SN.

                So what is the profile of the ideal/target punter for SN?

                • frank says:

                  I think that the main reason that SN readership declined was the slowdown in speed of presented articles after Big P left the building.

                  That is important because it has been established that what keeps people hooked on social media like Facebook is the frequency of new things to look at. That means that there is very little gap in between the shots of endorphins that are triggered by the latest morsel of either good or bad news (makes no difference as long as there is an emotional hit to it). For example, Osho quotes/old Pune1 photos and cat videos at one end of the spectrum and apocalyptic news stories, abuse scandals and extreme conspiracy stuff at the other end.

                  That`s what is addictive and gets the punters coming back and the more the quicker, the better. Even seasoned meditators are not immune to having their endorphins titillated and titivated by as-frequent-as-possible digital fixes.

                  So, having a much quicker stream of stories to comment on could be the key.

                  I don`t think they neccesarily have to be brilliantly worked out op-eds, just something instantly relatable that keeps things rolling. Shanti`s last post, for example, was easily good enough to be an article in its own right.

                  A qualifying piece would not even necessarily need to be that long.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Yes, Frank, more articles coming quicker sounds like a key issue.

                • satchit says:

                  There was already the idea to use old articles again, not so long ago.

                  One could contemplate on repetition and it is very much Zen.

            • swamishanti says:

              Not really, SD. I think most sannyasins who are active on the internet will be aware of it anyhow.

              As far as Lokesh’s book goes, I haven’t had a chance to read it yet and haven’t yet ordered it.

              • Lokesh says:

                Shanti, if you do order it, wait a little longer. I am giving the book a final once over, and should be ready in about 10 days. Just tweaking, correcting spacing, spellos etc. But it will make for a slightly better reading experience. Everyone who has read it that I know was very positive about it.

                I have a tendency to go over projects like this until I have exhausted all possibilities of making it just right. A bit obsessive, one might say.

                How about your idea of making a second book? Did that start to happen yet?

                • swamishanti says:

                  I will order it. But I was going to order the printed book. I guess you’ve been tweaking/editing the digital version.

                  Actually, I could do with tweaking some of my own comments.

                  I remember one of your stories from a London squat about your friend who used to stash bottles of piss in the loft. I thought to myself, “I wonder if he’s included that one…”

                  Don’t drink too much this festive season….

                • swamishanti says:

                  I always thought that a compilation of arguments between SD and Shantam would make a good chapter or two. Perhaps they could do an audio book together.

              • Lokesh says:

                Shanti, both the Kindle and paperback will be updated. I will announce when they are ready, steady go.

                No need to worry about your published comments. They are perfectly fine, or else I would not have published them.

                Just for the record, I rarely drink alcohol. A teacher plant taught me to avoid it.

                • frank says:

                  I haven`t taken any drugs or booze since the last century. The last time I took a strong hit of acid was on a full moon night on Anjuna beach in the 90s.

                  Beginning to severely buzz on the exceptionally warm night, I left my friends in the Shore Bar to go for a swim. It was a still night and the ocean almost wave-free. I walked down the beach, to where it was quiet and left my lunghi on the shore and slipped into the lusciously warm water, swam out a few yards then floated on my back in the gazing up at the massive tropical moon.

                  I say gazing up, but as I lay there supported by the unconditional love of the calm ocean it was impossible to say whether the moon was above me or whether I was flying high above the moon gazing down at it whilst stuck to planet earth by the glue of the sea. We circumnavigated each other for an eternity, knowing all the time that there was not really any essential difference between us, we were simply lumps of some unspecified matter infused by and radiating infinite candelas of cosmic luminescence in a silent planetary choir of bliss.

                  I don`t know how long this went on for but eventually I decided to go back to the shore. Back on the sand, I stood there, naked but for my red loincloth and gazed out at the ocean. The moonlight lit the surface of the sea and the view was a perfectly blissful combination of darkness and light.

                  Suddenly, I felt a distinct presence just out of view to my left. I could hear breathing. Some kind of living being. Not entirely benevolent. Slowly I turned my head to look at it. I was greeted by a bizarre apparition. Standing a few feet away from me was quite an ugly, slightly tubby Indian man dressed as a woman, a transvestite or maybe a transsexual, long hair tied up with flowers, in full sari down to ankle bracelets. He looked at me. I looked at him. What did he want? Then he looked straight in the eye and enquired: “Sucking baba? Fifty Rupees.”

                  I think I tried to say “For fuck`s sake!” but all I heard was an incoherent mumble wobbling out of my mouth as I stumbled away from the apparition as fast as I could. The oceanic bliss of my moonlit mind evaporated like a muddy puddle and the scruffy beach with its prowling dogs suddenly looked more like the entrance to some kind of hellzone. My psychedelic freaky journey had just crashed into the brick wall of the ugly reality of third world tourism, and speeding down the road of excess my dogma had finally been run over by my karma. I headed back to the Shore Bar.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Good acid story, Frank. I have a few acid freakers in Goa under my psychedelic belt.

                  In ’74 I was on little Vagator beach one morning and me and my loco chums dropped a couple of windowpanes. What we did not know was that the tailend of a cyclone was about to hit the beach. When the sea got wild we thought it was the acid and went for a swim…we had cuts and bruises to prove it. We retired to our house. When the roof was blown off, we realised there was something amiss.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I too haven’t had any acid since the last century.

                  Yeah, it can really give the mind and consciousness a colourful expansion.

                • frank says:

                  Good one!

                  Btw, I recently read ‘Divine Rascal’ by Andy Roberts. It`s about the life of Michael Hollingshead, the guy who introduced Leary to acid and self-styled “Man who turned on the world”.

                  ‘Divine Rascal’ gets to a lot of the detail behind the myth. Really crazy, off-the-wall, one-off story on a lot of different levels.

                • Klaus says:

                  @Frank

                  Having read your short story from on the beach under the moon I recommend that you should write your memoirs! Fictional and/or non-fictional.

                  I pre-order!

                  As I am sure you have tons of stories.

                • frank says:

                  Thanks Klaus, appreciated.
                  Yes, I have a few tales and still just enough braincells to remember them!

                  “The universe made of stories, not atoms.”

  7. Klaus says:

    I am actually quite afraid that when moving to FB we will be overrun by the shallowness of the Indian masses striving for western gadgets: cars, money, drugs, boys & girls in public action etc.

    Or the other guys & girls who think it is all about their great nation.

    Possible?

    As far as my perception takes me, Osho/Bhagwan/Sannyas is a quality game. Which has been lost once before.

    • Reading your comment I thought surely Osho/Bhagwan/Sannyas was a quality game: a clean well for high school drop-out western frogs.

      I also deduct, Klaus, you are like one of those high qualified Germans who think Covid vaccination is created by Bill Gates to reduce world population.

      • satyadeva says:

        “Reading your comment I thought surely Osho/Bhagwan/Sannyas was a quality game: a clean well for high school drop-out western frogs.”

        Shantam, I think most western sannyasins tended to be pretty well educated, with higher qualifications than a high school diploma or its equivalent. I’m not sure of the figures but I recall reading that something like well over 50/60% (or more) had degrees and/or professional qualifications.

        Perhaps part of your seemingly chronic disillusion stems from you yourself having forsaken a law degree course in favour of a ‘Promised (?) Land’ of ‘Love, Life and Laughter’ (with just a tiny morsel or two of Sex thrown in, of course, now and then, on birthdays and occasional weekends)?

        • Do we know any biographical notes about you, SD? Is there any worldly or non-worldly achievement you are proud of?

          Do you know any sannyasin in UK who has contributed more than average to any society?

          In hindsight, I think Bhagwan surely touched a collective emotional vacuum of the west, the warmth created by collective that was missing and still missing in the west.
          But the end result has been the bigger vacuum sannyasins fell into.

          I think there is a saying, ‘fruits show what kind of tree it was’.
          One cannot say about Sannyas, all is well that ends well.
          Neither it ended well for Master himself nor for his majority of sannyasins. This I am saying not because of personal loss and mistakes but observing honestly, accepting without denial.

          • frank says:

            As we are all so highly educated here, with most of the SN regulars like myself holding doctorates and masters` degrees from Noonieversity, Punaniversity as well as Multiversity, I think we should have a round of ‘University Challenge’.

            Fingers on the buzzers. Here`s your starter for ten:
            If you have one bucket that holds 2 gallons and another bucket that holds 5 gallons, how many buckets do you have?

          • Lokesh says:

            Shantam, it sounds to me like it is you who fell into a vacuum. But that does not mean that everyone else involved with Osho did.

            You say that what you are saying is not because of personal loss and mistakes but observing honestly, accepting without denial. What is it exactly that you are observing? Accepting what? Not being in denial about what?

            I think that sannyasins have contributed a lot to global society and that there are many intelligent, creative, meditative, loving people in the sannyasin ranks. You just do not seem to be meeting them. A reflection of yourself perhaps. Hence your gloomy, disillusioned perspective. Were you to receive a booster shot of inspiration and joy the way you see things would change.

            It really is all within yourself. Yes, a cliche, but that does not mean it is not true. Whatever I feel, think or feel I take responsibility for and do not project onto others what is really my very own personal business. If one does not do that, one is constantly leaking energy, and that will leave you in a depressed condition, living in a world that reflects your inner state.

            Shantam, in all due sincerity, it appears to me that you are simply not aware of this. If you were you would drop your gloomy perspective and lighten up.

            We are living in a very strange time in human history. The world is, as usual, in a bit of a mess. The world desperately needs happy people, people who still want to celebrate, dance, laugh and enjoy life to the full. Why not sign up for that, instead of singing the disillusionment blues every day?

            • Lokesh, fact is you left the train before it started burning.
              You withdrew your investment before the over-ambitious company went into liquidity crunch.

              Problem with sentimental observation is we stop observing without Detachment.
              It is like if a helicopter owned by Guru Airlines gets crashed, investigation done by the followers will find the manufacturing defect or blame the weather.

              • frank says:

                Osho was a con-man.
                His disciples were paedos.
                The movement burned and crashed – a train wreck.
                You lost your money and mind.
                Enlightenment was a just a ponzi scheme.
                Everyone you know thinks you are an idiot who wasted your life on an illusion and you have no valid riposte.
                You can`t even get a decent shag anymore.
                You are not so young as you used to be and your body will soon burn and crash too.

                So…cheer up!

              • satchit says:

                Fact is, Shantam, there never was a train.

                Or, the idea that there is a train belongs to the train-chakra.

                You miss it, because you are the judge from the hill!

              • Klaus says:

                @Shantam

                Without criticising you or reproaching you one bit I like to offer you the thought that:

                All we – all of us individually – have been trying to learn – through practice, letting go, pain, help by a guru or others – is to let things end in our mind:

                Bhagwan Guru dissolved.
                Oregon concept dissolved.
                Airline dissolved.
                Helicopter dissolved.
                Words… dissolved.
                Person dissolved.
                Everything dissolved.

                That is possible:
                Salam Alleikum! Peace. Without end.

                Imo, that’s the way to do – or look at – it.

                I wish you well.

                (Lokesh has put it much much more nicely!!).

              • Lokesh says:

                Fact is, Shantam, you just sang verse two of Disillusionment Blues. And the beat goes on.

          • satyadeva says:

            Shantam, I’ll get to your queries later on, but first, I’d like to ask you whether you’re grateful for anything at all in your experience of being part of Osho’s movement. Because all you seem to focus on, to the point of obsession, is what went wrong, for the collective and, by implication, for you personally.

            Could you possibly provide a list of what made your time around Osho and his people worthwhile, please?

            • it seems self-certified gang of retired sannyasins are living in the space of gratitude. I wonder whether they ever showed gratitude to their parents, their countries and their roots and the generation of people who created civil and military infrastructure and pride of all NHS.

              The depth of gratitude is a state of being, when someone focuses just on his guru or partner it’s having a colour-blind version of gratitude.

              • Lokesh says:

                Shantam, gratitude is something you rarely express on SN. Why not focus on the reason for that instead of wondering about other people’s level of gratitude.

                It is obvious from many of the regulars’ comments that they have no difficulty expressing gratitude and not just in relation to their guru or partner. I find it easy to determine if someone in grateful for what life has brought them. Perhaps you are not old enough yet to appreciate that every morning you get out of bed and feel good you quite naturally feel grateful for that.

                Osho was big on gratitude. “God has given you this life, this tremendously valuable gift, and you cannot even appreciate it. You cannot welcome it, you cannot feel any gratitude for it. On the contrary, you are complaining and complaining and complaining. Your heart is full of grudges, not gratitude.” He could have been speaking to you directly when he uttered these words.

                • “Osho was big on gratitude” – does it means for thousands of years humanity was living in a state of ungratefulness?

                  Is not a right time a seventy years old man comes out from an oedipal complex, “My daddy is a super-hero”?

                  In my definition of gratitude for a person, one is surely around during bad times if not in good times.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Sorry, Shantam, you have lost me there. I have no idea what you are talking about.

                  Oedipal complex? I think you mean Oedipus complex, in psychoanalytic theory, a desire for sexual involvement with the parent of the opposite sex and a concomitant sense of rivalry with the parent of the same sex; a crucial stage in the normal developmental process. In relation to you showing a lack of gratitude, I fail to make the connection.

                • frank says:

                  AY says:
                  “Shantambhai! Swami Bhorat salutes your heroism for once more showing the ungrateful baboons your specialist grasp of both the Vedic science of starsigns and psychoanalytic theory by doing a Freudian slip then landing on Uranus!

                  Certainly, Shantam has much experience in psychoanalysis!
                  He has been lying on couch saying first thing that comes into his head for years!
                  Again, the intelligence of his free associations and metaphors mixed in non-export quality Bajaj cement mixer from circa 1980s cannot be understood by ignorant western minds that think that in the matter of words it matters or not whether the underpants are outside the trousers!

                  Plus, Shantam has extensive experience of Oedipal feelings since pumping phase(88-90) when he is wanting to shag Mas of the gora species and also simultaneously wanting to kill gora male father-figure disciples!

                  Certainly Shantology will last for thousands of yugas as it is a discipline on a par with anything the western mind in its ungrateful ignorance could come up with and also even shares central insight of western psychological baboons!”

                • Lokesh says:

                  Frank, AY’s latest message has been copy and pasted into revised edition of ‘The Very Best and Worst of Sannyas News’. Yes, believe it or not, I am still working on it…updating insights etc.

                • frank says:

                  Perfectly correct, Lokesh!
                  Certainly, in order to stop the unconscious masses from committing the global suicide and worse, it is absolutely necessary for Swami Bhorat`s vision and legless legacy to be made available to all!

                  What Swami G is doing is immensely significant! He is to Swami Bhorat what Ananda was to Buddha, Chuang Tse was to Lao Tse, Ouspensky was to Gurdjieff, Dhyan Raj to Swami Brian, Peter, Paul, Mary, Beaky, Dozy and Tich were to Jesus Christ and Rolf Harris to Sai Baba!

                  Hari Om!
                  Yahoo!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Sun arise and hold tight!

              • Klaus says:

                @Shantam

                Clearly. Your piercing love arrows are a fine challenge to push one further over the edge!

                In this way, your mock attacks are of value, indeed.

                It is always useful to keep ‘peeling the onion’ as long as there is onion left….

                Cheers.

                • frank says:

                  It is said that in ‘Oedipus the King’, the play by Sophocles, “Oedipus is responsible for the tragedy of his own downfall. Oedipus is presented with a series of choices throughout the play, and his arrogant and stubborn nature push him to impulsively make the wrong decisions, the decisions that ultimately lead him to his downfall.”

          • satyadeva says:

            Shantam, you enquire, “Do we know any biographical notes about you, SD? Is there any worldly or non-worldly achievement you are proud of?”

            You seem to have forgotten that I’ve already said here on SN, a few years ago, that I’m primarily happy to have managed to get through to this point in life after a dysfunctional start and several very difficult ensuing periods. Much (but far from all) of the credit for this goes to Osho, his therapies and meditations and the community he created, where I’ve found some good friends and partners.

            As for other “achievements”, well, nothing out-of-the-ordinary, but I’m happy to have had a fairly wide range of work experience, particularly helping children, young people and adults with their studies, in and out of school and college (including for a royal family in the Far East), running an adventure playground and teaching tennis. I ran a marathon in 3 hours 19 mins. (And had the privilege of editing the first edition of ‘The Mustard Seed’).

            You also ask, “Do you know any sannyasin in UK who has contributed more than average to any society?”

            Yes, I certainly know and have known such people, who are far more common than I suspect you seem to want to imagine. The former editor of SN himself was one such person. And there have been and are plenty more, employed and self-employed, social workers, dentists, teachers, computer experts, accountants, secretaries, business owners, therapists, artists, dancers, astrologers, and so on.

            But, Shantam, your query tends to reveal an over-conventional, rather shallow stance that begs the question: By what criteria do we judge or assess ‘contributions to society’?

            Someone may appear to have done very little, in conventional terms, but might be a blessing to all who come across him/her.

            Another might have found him/herself landed with existential difficulties requiring many years of committed inner work to perhaps first even survive before being able to live in a fulfilling way. (That was particularly the case for many of the generation of the West born during and after the second world war as they ‘inherited the sins of their fathers’, leaving them ill-equipped to face what their parents couldn’t or wouldn’t, the new demands of a different, far less repressed age).

            Others might have played a vital, unpaid role, eg as a wife/mother//partne/husband/father in running a family home.

            Or what about low-paid care workers who do unglamorous but essential, at times even heroic work looking after the elderly, sick and afflicted?

            An ‘achiever’ might have been a high-flying innovator or have reached the top in science, business, politics, law or whatever, while being a ruthless so’n'so at work and/or a mediocre, thoroughly selfish partner or failure in private life.

            Remember, research has revealed that a statistically more than average number of psychopaths reach positions of considerable power in organisations (including, perhaps, early/mid-1980s Sannyas!).

            Ultimately, isn’t what really counts the quality of an individual, not their outer achievements? If not, Shantam, I trust you’re not tempted to look down on your own self?

      • Klaus says:

        Certainly: Nope. (@Shantam’s comment)

    • Klaus says:

      But then again, I am also not afraid, because ‘people are the same wherever you go’. True enough. Isn’t it?

  8. satchit says:

    “All is well that ends well”

    Celebrating the failure too!

    This is the holy message of today.

  9. Klaus says:

    Support Satchit’s message of today…

    Even the incomplete is complete in its incompleteness.

    I offer some leaves for the tree in its habitat. Picture.

  10. Klaus says:

    Picture was left out in a rush for the incomplete, chittichittibangbang….

    • satyadeva says:

      Here’s a Christmas greeting sent today by Ma Anand Madhu, a long-time sannyasin, based in Munich, and well known here as a contributor to SN for many years, who is unable to post directly any more due to computer issues:

      “Deat Satyadeva,

      Merry Christ-Consciousness!

      So good to have some sparkle of Light some rare moments – knowing that chat(ter) bots (and algorithms to design such crap) fighting enlighten-tertainments are not the real thing.

      Quite bad – at the same time – to get to know how utterly fragile are these rare moments.

      Alas, “caravanserais” are just temporary meeting places, aren’t they?

      I remember the poem I sent to this UK Chat in April 2014 and I mention it as it is even more rare that some GAPS can be spoken in words too.

      Wishing you as others here Happy Christ-Conciousness Days – in the midst of all Chaos and turmoil of Change.

      Wishing you the best – as you like to say!

      Madhu”

      • Lokesh says:

        A fascinating and enlightentertaining post from Madhu. Pity she won’t be able to see it displayed in all its majesty due to bots (and algorithms to design such crap) fighting enlighten-tertainments are not the real thing. I am sure everyone will be able to relate to that on a powerfully existential level.

  11. Has assembly of wise men and women come on some conclusion about faecbook page of Sannyasnews?

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