The Ring Of Truth?

Frank questions the validity of current popular socio-political theories arising from various responses to the Covid-19 pandemic and other controversial issues.

In the last months, since the Covid emergency, many newsagents, including, of course, Osho sannyasins, have bought into and are propagating for various of their own reasons, a swathe of insane and fraudulent “conspiracy theories”. Many of these theories originate from and are being deliberately engineered and pumped out on social media by far-right propagandists, particularly Qanon, as well as various other sources.

There`s a lot on the web about it. This is a relevant clip from ‘The Guardian’:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/wellness-advocates-used-to-talk-about-bali-trips-and-coconut-oilnow-its-bill-gates-and-5g

 Here`s a link to a more detailed examination if you`re interested:

https://medium.com/@julianwalker111/the-red-pill-overlap-19ad346c62f0

This isn`t just something I`ve read about in the papers and online,though. I have fallen out with quite a few people as a result of all this.

Therefore, I can agree with the author that amongst the reasons for this are certainly: financial self-interest (for example, amongst wellness industry people who benefit from dissing science and orthodox medicine), attempts at perceived `rebelliousness` (“I`m not a sheep/you can`t muzzle me with your masks”), underlying racism (“BLM are terrorists funded by the elite cabal!), having freedoms curtailed , the satisfaction of being in a gang with special knowledge (“I have awakened and seen through the Matrix”, ”they want to inject you with the mark of the beast”), and other plain ignorance and gullibility born of misplaced idealism fuelled by unaddressed projections that can create a desire for a showdown with the forces of evil/Babylon/The Matrix that will usher in a new age of Light. Getting into this stuff is presented in familiar terms of `awakening`,`awareness`, `consciousness` etc.

Thus, many of our fellow-travellers are now unknowingly or knowingly spouting far-right, Trumpian lies and fabrications that have apocalyptic Christian overtones mixed in with the old Hari Potter yogic-powers siddhis stuff, and believe that the truth is out there courtesy of random online chancers who are riding the wave, getting rich and famous as their Youtube/Facebook clicks go up.

I would also say that, generally speaking,  people on this wave follow the standard basic psychology of fascism, (of which Qanon is most definitely a propagandist form.)

That is to say:
Uniting around a central idea, purpose and/or charismatic leader, the subscribers turn feelings of depression into aggression, inferiority into superiority, ignorance into arrogance, shame into pride.

I also suspect that many so-called seekers and wellness freaks had already lost the plot before the emergence of the virus and the rise of Qanon, by investing too heavily in bogus (already fascistic) gurus, authoritarian teachers and leaders, highly questionable `healing modalities`, quack remedies, dodgy diets and a raft of `spiritual practices` that nullify basic intelligence and disable critical thinking, thus leaving themselves ripe for the harvesting.

What do you say, SN punters?
I`d love to hear your opinions and experiences.

 

 

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149 Responses to The Ring Of Truth?

  1. swamishanti says:

    Well, I’m not one of the conspiracy theorists regarding the Covid-9 epidemic. And I’ve never heard of this ‘Qanon’ thing that you mention here.

    But, as I mentioned before somewhere else, several months ago during the summer, right in the middle of the British lockdown, when the daily mortality rate was at its peak, I was unexpectedly given the opportunity, as part of a survey experience to preview and rate the first episode of ‘Utopia’, which is a new American conspiracy thriller centering around the discovery of an old comic in a recently deceased person’s belongings, which happens to be the sequel to a cult underground comic novel ‘Dystopia’.

    The story goes that there is a conspiracy theory around the first comic, which is believed by some to contain hidden clues to the recent new virus outbreaks which have taken place in different locations around the world over the last ten or twenty years (SARS, MERS, Zika, Ebola, etc.).

    After being discovered, the widely anticipated sequel to the first comic Utopia is auctioned and this attracts the atttention of a group of young online conspiracy freaks, as well as other people who want to get hold of the comic, which is believed to contain clues to a new virus which may lead to the end of life as we know it. The comic is also a target of a shadowy deep state organization.

    Apparently, the producers of the series were originally intending to release it in the summer of this year, but it was delayed because of the worldwide Covid pandemic. I was asked to watch and rate the first part, which I thought was pretty well made, with interesting script and characters, and was asked what I thought the general public’s reaction to the show would be, ie was it ‘tasteless‘ etc.

    I enjoyed watching the first episode and had been waiting for the series to be released (on Amazon Prime video) so I could watch the rest.

    Recently the whole series was released as an ‘Amazon Prime original’ and over the course of two days I binge-watched the whole of the first series.

    It is not for the faint-hearted but the conspiracy theorists around the coronavirus out there will just love this series.

    The bizzare part of it was that the producers of the series created it and finished the filming before the first cases of Covid-19 were announced in Wuhan province last year.

    The series includes conspiracy theories involving corporations /scientists, virus manufacture and the manipulation of the general public into vaccinations.

    I had the feeling while watching ‘Utopia’ that the creators were dropping strong hints and suggesting that they knew about the coming virus pandemic and that there was a conspiracy behind it…

    I also didn’t realise at first that the series that has just been released this year is actually an American remake of an older British series which was released on Amazon video some years back. The new ‘season one’ of ‘Utopia’ is available to watch on Amazon Prime, which can be accessed with a free monthly trial.

    • swamishanti says:

      By the way, on another note, here’s old IDS (Ian Duncan Smith – architect of the
      controversial welfare shake-up and austerity measures that have been blamed for pushing thousands of people into poverty, including declaring disabled people fit for work which resulted in hundreds of suicides and the draconian sanctions regime, and the bedroom tax) with his take on the Covid-19 epidemic in the style of The Smiths:

      https://youtu.be/uK7DXDL9EOE

      • swamishanti says:

        There really is a lot of wild fantasy going around with all this conspiracy theory stuff, isn’t there? Surprising what folks will believe.

        I mean, the QAnon claims of ‘paedophile rings in which the elite feast on the addictive adrenaline-rich blood of tortured children’ – this one seems to be doing the rounds and it’s not only celebrities such as Madonna and Tom Hanks that have been accused of this; I heard today on the news that the US Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden is also now being accused of being one of the paedophiles who may be feasting on the new drug obtained from the blood of children, on social media by Trump supporters – trust Americans to believe in that kind of bullshit.

        Clearly in any crisis that is large enough a lot of the population need individuals or groups to blame.

        The common culprits or the scapegoats for the conspiracy nuts these days are often that there is a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, involving the Rothchilds, Bill Gates, or the pharmaceutical companies in the case of the coronavirus.

        ‘The Illuminati’ are believed by many to be the main bad guys, a secret elite group of the super-rich that meet in underground caves and make plans and manipulate events to change the future of the world.

        But are some of the claims of what the so-called ‘New World Order’ is meant to be trying to achieve really that bad?

        Conspiracy theorists say that they have a plan to create a ‘one world government’ and want to bring down the earth’s population to a sustainable level to save the environment.

        But hang on, haven’t we heard some of this kind of stuff before?

        After all, it was Osho who was on about having a One World Government and banging on about having no more nations, religions, governments, heavens and hells so many years before.

        (Yes, it does sound a bit reminiscent of John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’, doesn’t it?

        “Imagine there’s no heaven
        It’s easy if you try
        No hell below us
        Above us only sky

        Imagine all the people
        Living for today (ah ah ah)

        Imagine there’s no countries
        It isn’t hard to do
        Nothing to kill or die for
        And no religion, too….”

        “I have the whole vision of the New Man: No religions, no nations, no governments – only one functional government, and a powerful world academy of scientists. And science should be the decisive factor.”

        Osho : ‘From the False to the Truth’

        “Now great holes have been created by the gases that our factories and industries create, and from those holes, death rays from the sun are entering into our atmosphere.

        This earth has never been so sick; it has never been so much in danger of new diseases. Now the vested interests are not ready to listen, to stop these factories or find alternatives. And scientists are engaged only in creating more war material. No government is ready to give them support so they can create more ozone and fill up the gaps which, unconsciously, we ourselves have created.

        My emphasis is that our problems are international but our solutions are national. No nation is able to solve them. I take it as a great challenge and as a great opportunity: nations should be collapsed into one world government.

        It was tried by the League of Nations before the second world war, but it could not succeed. It simply remained a debating club. The second world war destroyed the very credibility of the League of Nations. But the necessity was still there; therefore they had to create the United Nations organization, the U.N. But the U.N. is as much a failure as the League of Nations was. Again, it is still a debating club because it has no power. It cannot implement anything, it is just a formal club.

        I would like a world government. All nations should surrender their armies, their arms to the world government. Certainly if there is a world government, neither armies are needed, nor arms. With whom are you going to have a war? To find the closest neighbor amongst the planets for some kind of war is almost impossible.

        Nations have become out of date, but they go on existing – and they are the greatest problem.

        Looking at the world, just like a bird looks, a strange feeling arises: we have everything, just we need one humanity.”

        Osho: ‘The Golden Future‘

        And as far as bringing the world’s population down, well, Osho was firing on all cylinders about that since the sixties. Encouraging birth control…long before the Indian Goverment realised it would be necessary…by the time it was too late.

        In the meantime, the Popes were condemning all forms of contraception and birth control as evil, whilst hidden in the background of the Roman Catholic Church lay a widespread and rampant culture of sexual child abuse, perversion and buggery. This is where all the real paedophilia was taking place, not in the world of celebrities and the imaginary evil enemies of Donald Trump!

  2. satchit says:

    Frank, I appreciate your analysis of the situation.

    The Matrix of the unconscious is really destroyed by your clarity. But fact is, and this you also know as a fighter for Love & Peace, we cannot prevent Armaggedon coming.

    The signs are written on the wall or you can read it on the revelations of John. The seven plagues start already with Covid-69, the Apocalyptic Riders are on their way.

    Time is running. Repent!

    • sam lucas says:

      That’s the most sensible thing I’ve read here for a long time. Well done!

    • kavita says:

      Wonder who will live to tell the Post-Apocalyptic/Armaggedon tale?!

      • frank says:

        Thanks, Satchit,

        It seems that the SN elite are continuing to deny Anand Yogi a voice – no doubt because they are being financed by George Soros. How else could such an evil organisation survive?
        It is thus in the interest of fair-play and in a compassionate attempt to heal the broken fabric of our spiritual community that I pass on the letter Yogi has sent me:

        “Beloved Baboons,

        It has been noticed for some time that the number of contributors to SN has been dwindling to an extreme degree! I discussed this with Swami Bhorat, who had a quick word with David Icke who explained it very clearly! The truth is that the falling numbers are entirely due to the eugenics programme being funded by Bill and Melinda Gates! Also, shockingly, one of Gates’s other shady cabalists, Samarpan, who, according to very reliable sources on Facebook and Youtube, is a well-known twelve-foot lizard with a penchant for pedo pizzas, has even called for SN to commit Sati!

        Information is also circulating concerning a certain Bhagwan who had for years been distributing vaccines at the Ranch and other buddhafields that had the effect of inoculating people from religious holy cowdung of all sorts! Swami Bhorat, on behalf of all purveyors of the wisdom of mighty Bhorat everywhere, solemnly condemns this! We are totally anti-vaxx!

        Do the research! Vaccines are dangerous! They have small amount of mercury and other heavy metals in! It is well documented that people who have been given these vaccines have, as a result, suddenly started singing very camp at top of voices, become homosexual and launched into penultimate section of Bohemian Rhapsody!

        It is certainly Kali Yuga!

        The Nine Unknown Men of Ashoka, due to the seriousness of the situation, have now come out of shadows and have own Youtube channel: ‘The Nine Qanon Men of Mighty Bhorat’, also selling great range of merchandise! Check their wide range of bleach, bleach neti-pots, bleach colonic-cleanse kits, colloidal lead, CBD popsicles, homeopathic homo-cures etc. and don`t forget to pick up your “Make the New Age Great Again” T-shirts and baseball caps!

        Or, alternatively, sign in and take part in a 5G mast debate with free organic coconut oil for the first 100 to log on! Then send your support for the Nine Men`s application for membership to the Republican Party and inevitable job at White House when Kalki Trump re-elected!

        And don`t forget to prepare for the evil 1% cabal`s plan for a cashless society. Outsmart them now and send all yours to us first at PO Box 6662020.

        Swami Bhorat proclaims that, although he feels it is an affront to his personal freedom, he also finds wearing a mask an extremely useful device whilst performing various time-honoured important devices by guru for the advancement of his disciples’ enlightenment such as fraud, deception, mendacity, aggravated buggery etc. whilst also having bonus of being able to dodge facial recognition CCTV at same time!

        Satchit and Sam Lucas are perfectly correct! The four horsemen of the Apocalypse, Trump,Icke, Modi and Q, while being cheered on by the Nine Men, are certainly riding home to victory in the 6.66 Armageddon Stakes at Holocaust Park with all the dignity and certainty of a three-legged donkey in a two-horse race in a one-horse town!

        Rest assured that mighty India, the country that, as Zorba the Buddhi Modi has made clear, whose Vedic scientists many yugas ago invented flight, space-travel, stem-cell genetics, plastic surgery, mathematics, the number zero, institutionalised racism, public toilets and knob gags, is working hard at producing a vaccine! This is taking place in a top-secret lavbratory down near the railway tracks where extensive experiments with Delhi belly, Montezuma`s revenge are also taking place!

        Yahoo!
        Hari Om!
        Keep the Nuage great!”

  3. “I have the whole vision of the New Man: No religions, no nations, no governments – only one functional government, and a powerful world academy of scientists. And science should be the decisive factor.”

    Osho, ‘From the False to the Truth’

    And the Indian mystic has no vision who will run his empire.

    Intellectuals influenced by him also have no vision how to collect 200 pounds a year to run a discussion site.

    MOD:
    SN eagerly awaits your own fund-raising vision, Shantam.

  4. kavita says:

    Somehow, frankly, since sometime now, I didn’t feel the need for any kind of theories, so I am quite enjoying this time, though first few months of the supposed pandemic were very tough/a bit tough, for all of us, but looks like the collective mind has been taking it quite ]easy & guess unlearning & learning ways to live now!

  5. frank says:

    I notice that Osho News has put up a link to a discussion about the same issue, billed as “Can the conscious community bridge the divide?”

    I listened to it but the people there are mostly going on about how to reconcile opposites and listening to opposing opinions etc. A bit metaphysical, not enough actual examples.

    Ragini, one of the discussers on there, speaks in terms of not reacting and remainimg calm, seeing all sides as a polarity. Not getting into “My view is right and yours is wrong.” That`s all very good advice, generally speaking, but I don`t think they`re really getting to the bottom of the problem. They are still assuming some sane conversation can be had.

    When you come to face people who say, point blank: the virus does not exist, AIDS epidemic does not exist, Bill Gates is eugenicising the world by funding vaccines (try to work that one out!), bleach or baking soda cures the virus, 5G causes the virus, etc. you are not talking about opinions in the sense of political, aesthetic, medical or otherwise.

    It`s plain bullshit that doesn`t ask for genuine dialogue.

    That`s what it`s for. It is essentially language used to attempt to take control of (your) reality by force.

    You`ve got even less chance of getting your point across than with a brick wall or a Jehovah`s Witless!

    • swamishanti says:

      The far right Trump election campaign machine, including the Qanon group, has also been trying to ride the wave of the paranoid American Covid conspiracy theorists. Currently they have been pumping out thousands of messages on social media that include Joe Biden being a communist/ satanist, a traitor in league with China, as well as a paedophile, in league with elite Jewish Bankers who have created the fake Covid pandemic, all part of their ultimate Communist plan which includes the creation of a ‘New World Order’ and One world government.
      Check out https://awesomeprophecy.com/

      Meanwhile, like Osho, the Jehovah’s Witnesses also believe in a new One World Government and an era of peace and love, except in their version Jehovah has already chosen an ideal world Ruler​ for his Kingdom – his Son, Jesus. And only those who follow the scriptures and please Jehovah will survive the Armageddon to live in the new earthly paradise.

      • sam lucas says:

        Today, mankind’s problems are often on a worldwide scale In some nations, most people are poor and oppressed. In others, many people seem to have more than they need. Only a global administration could distribute the earth’s resources fairly – read Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9.

        Who could be trusted with a world government?

        The idea of a world ruler is unpopular because no man or woman could do the job well. No human could gain the acceptance of everyone. Also, who is above being corrupted by power? The thought of a single tyrant ruling all mankind is terrifying – read Proverbs 29:2; Jeremiah 10:23.

        Jehovah God has chosen his Son, Jesus, to rule mankind forever (Luke 1:32, 33). Jesus has experience in living on earth. While here, he cured the sick, taught the meek, and spent time with children. (Mark 1:40-42; 6:34; 10:13-16). So Jesus is the ideal Ruler — read John 1:14.

        • frank says:

          Sam,
          This guy Jesus who, if he ever actually existed, has been dead for 2000 years, should rule the world?

          How will that work?

          Plus, according to the Old Testament, Jehovah is
          “…a jealous and avenging God; the Lord takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The Lord takes vengeance on his foes and vents his wrath against his enemies.”
          Or
          “The Lord God tolerates no rivals; he punishes those who oppose him. In his anger he pays them back.”

          Sounds like a complete tyrant.
          Are you sure you want this guy running the place?

        • swamishanti says:

          Sam, you theorise that “The idea of a world ruler is unpopular because no man or woman could do the job well. No human could gain the acceptance of everyone. Also, who is above being corrupted by power? The thought of a single tyrant ruling all mankind is terrifying….”

          These are all sensible points. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Who would want a dictator controlling planetary affairs unless he was a man of exceptional character?

          Hmm…one wonders how affairs are managed on different planetary systems with presumably more advanced societies and technologies.

          Still, Osho did consider the point:

          “I want the president of the world government only to be president for six months, so that he cannot do any harm. And I want one person to be chosen only once. These are all precautions.”

          Osho: ‘From the False to the Truth’

          And later:

          “But the world president will be chosen not from the members of the World Government, but from outside. And one thing should be absolutely certain about him — that he is not a politician. He can be a poet, a painter, a mystic, a dancer, but not a politician. Anything except that. So in this way we will destroy the political power which has been the whole torture in the past.”

          Osho: ‘The Golden Future’

          • frank says:

            Shanti,
            You quote Osho who said:
            “He (the world president) can be a poet, a painter, a mystic, a dancer, but not a politician. Anything except that.”

            Mmm…a reality TV show host maybe?

            The idea that anyone would be better than a career politician seems to have taken a bit of a beating with ol` Mcdonald Trump.

            I don`t think politics was Osho`s best subject.

            Btw, that reminds me, do you remember Osho`s school report which surfaced around the same time as his will?
            It seems about as authentic to me.

            Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh
            Annual School Report
            Summer term, 1985

            English: Must brush up on his tendency to leave out indefinite articles.
            History: Really needs to stick to the facts a little more.
            Religious Studies: Excellent, if a little unorthodox.
            Chemistry: Must try harder, the world is made up of more than just nitrogen and oxygen.
            Geography: Rather slow. it has taken him 4 years to find out where the Redneck Riviera is.
            Philosophy: Challenging. Has driven his professors out of their minds on numerous occasions.
            Phys Ed: Bone idle. Just sits in his room all day doing nothing. Waving his arms about for a few minutes in the evening is just not enough.
            Politics: Lamentably naïve and misguided.
            Dance: A bit wobbly, but the rest of the class seem to find it entertaining.
            Theatre and Drama: Definitely.
            Driving: Very poor.
            Media Studies: Needs to grasp that not all publicity is good publicity.
            Film Studies: Really must learn to branch out a bit.
            Citizenship: Doesn’t seem to be taking the subject seriously at all.

            Headmaster’s Report:
            All in all, it is sad and disappointing to see someone who showed so much early promise failing so badly. He seems to have lost his enlightenment completely this term and his disruptive behaviour, practical jokes, poor choice of friends and substance abuse have offended almost everyone who has come into contact with him.
            This leaves expulsion as the only option.

            • kavita says:

              If I was the Chief Founding Trustee of this school, then would confer one year’s bonus to Mr. Headmaster for this report!

            • Lokesh says:

              Frank, very clever bit of fun writing. Best thing I have read on SN for some time.

              • frank says:

                Cheers K and McLoke,
                It definitely pays to keep the ol` clown chakra charged up.
                And it makes a welcome break from the endless mask debating!

                • satchit says:

                  The program itself seems to be a bit crazy. Why is Sam Lucas’ contribution on the caravanserai and not here on the main site?

                  Is it only for the chosen few here?

                  MOD:
                  Satchit, his two posts were originally deleted as, given these were standard Jehovah’s Witness chapter-and-verse, we felt a productive discussion would be highly unlikely to arise.

                  However, if enough readers are interested to read them then they’ll be put up, although any resulting responses would need to be free from abusive comments.

                • satyadeva says:

                  Satchit, his two posts were originally deleted as, given these were standard Jehovah’s EWitness chapter-and-verse, we felt a productive discussion would be highly unlikely to arise.

                  However, if enough readers are interested to read them then they’ll be put up, although any resulting responses would need to be free from abusive comments.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I wouldn’t have minded reading them. I think, given the context of the conversation here, in conspiracy theories which also do involve common New Age ‘end of the world’ theories – from the ‘New Age’ part of the spectrum anyway, as opposed to the right-wing, anti-Semitic, anti- Communist factions, although they are now getting mixed together a lot – there is often a belief in a new ‘golden age’ which will replace the current age that is dominated by the ‘dark forces – ‘Babylon’ perhaps – to use Rastafarian and hippie terminology. It’s an ‘us and them’ situation-

                  The conspiracy theorists and the ones that believe that ‘they’ who are currently controlling the world and will be soon be overthrown as our own growth in awareness as consciousness enables us – the righteous ones – to wake up to the reality of the tyranny of the world situation – the ‘ matrix for some of those mixed up in the spiritual scene, these ideas and outer political issues have become mixed up with the inner journey of ‘waking up’ and growth in consciousness.

                  What many of the New-Agers and Illuminati conspiracy theorists probably don’t realise is that a lot of these New Age end of the world theories originate from strong, old Christian conditionings and belief in the ‘Amargeddon’ – a last holy struggle between the good and the ‘righteous’ forces versus the depraved and evil tyranny of the oppressive current rulers.

                  The Jehovah’s Witnesses are perfectly entitled to their own interpretation of the scriptures, of course, and they have been banging on about the end of the world as we know it, the Armageddon and the ‘New Age’ that, according to them, will soon be replacing the current system of things.

                  I suspect that Sam Lucas simply wanted to put across his view and wouldn’t bother spending too much time writing here, anyhow.

                  A lot of the beliefs in the New Age are certainly very different from many of the traditional Indian beliefs, especially in Advaita scriptures, whether it is often emphasised that ‘God is the one Power and the Only Doer’ and all the bodies and forms and all activities and events are simply part of His play, His leela. “You are not the body, nor is the body yours, nor are you the doer of actions or the reaper of the consequences”. (Ashtavakra Gita).

                  Of course these kind of Indian beliefs would horrify some of the Catholics, Christians and believers in free will and eternal hellfire for those who are judged to be sinners.

                  But even in the Bhagavad Gita, during the battle of Kurukshetra, when Arjuna doesn’t want to kill people, Krishna encourages Arjuna to fight, telling him that deep down, no-one is dying or being born, and He aloneis the killer and those who are being killed.

                • frank says:

                  Shanti,

                  You make some good points. It probably is quite relevant to the discussion.

                  I have heard it said at times by people who have been earbashed by conspiritualists that the conspiritualists are “just like Jehovah`s witnesses”. Sam has shown what they mean. And as he gets any chance, he comes straight in with his propaganda, totally ignoring any flaws in his presentation that have been pointed out. It`s simply monological idiocy.

                  You are right in saying that the links between conspirituality and Old Testament religion are manifold. Simply, you need a devil – Bill Gates, Soros, Biden, lizards, Jews, BLM…You need a saviour – Q, “Truthers”, Trump…

                  And a showdown leading to the establishment of a new age of righteousness.

                  It`s not a very sophisticated story-line but it pulls in the thickos.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Old Nisargaddata Maharaj’s master, Siddharameshwar Maharaj, went a step further: he didn’t only encourage his discipes to remember that they are not their bodies or their minds, and to understand that everything is a play of consciousness with God being the only doer, he also disliked the belief in Karmic retribution for one’s actions, whether good or bad, considering it a great poison as it strengthens the idea of the individual doer, the ‘I’.

                  According to Siddharameshwar Maharaj, the ‘holier than thou’ ego, who considers itself higher and holier than all the rest with his thoughts and actions, who is constantly judging and condemning others, is just as dangerous as the most sinful.

                  Thus this idea of no free will or Karmas was also taken on board by Ramesh Balsekar, the popular Indian guru of the same lineage, as well as Satyam Nadeem, imprisoned ecstasy manufacturer, turned satsang wallah (and author of ‘From Onions to Pearls’).

                • satchit says:

                  Why should a Jehovah’s Witness not be allowed to write here?

                  Nobody is forced to read, nobody is forced to react.

                  Maybe he is here to learn a bit of tolerance before the Armageddon of SN will happen.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I have also noticed that a site which contains (most of?) Osho’s discourses which can be read for free, Oshosearch.net – which is being used quite a lot in different places on the net to share Osho’s talks on different subjects – appears to be run by an ex-sannyasin.

                  He is also one of the paranoid conspiracy theorists , disturbingly, virulently anti-semitic, ‘anti-matrix’ stuff, blames the Jews for just about everything, including the spread of Communism and the deliberate manipulation of world events – including the planning of the ‘New World Order’. He’s been pasting anti-Jewish qoutes and snippets from different sources and putting them underneath Osho’s words on each page.

                  Bizarrely , he has also appears to have come to the conclusion that Osho himself was also some sort of Satanist / agent for the Illuminati, and Osho’s vision of the commune (which he compares to a Jewish Kibbutz) , is exactly in his view, the vision of ‘the New World Order’.

                  Strange case. Appears to be a wacko. His own paranoia seems to have led him to believe that Osho (whom he refers to as ‘Chandra Mohan’ was basically a hypnotist, and possibly the anti-Christ. He appears to be also a Christian now, or at least interested in the teachings of Christ as he features a lot of statements of Jesus on his blog.

                  One wonders why he is carrying all of Osho’s talks on his site when he has turned very much anti-Osho. Perhaps he is using it to try to spread his anti matrix anti-Zionist conspiracy theories, as he knows that his site and his material will appear in many search engines when people search for Osho qoutes. He may still appreciate Osho’s hammering of the priests and politicians and exposure of the corruption and hypocrisy of different governments and the vested interests.

                  But obviously doesn’t appreciate Osho’s vision for a future world.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Well, perhaps his replies should be allowed here, he doesn’t seem to like writing here often, probably feels out of place and I doubt anyone will try to argue with his assertions much.

          • kavita says:

            ” “But the world president will be chosen not from the members of the World Government, but from outside. And one thing should be absolutely certain about him — that he is not a politician. He can be a poet, a painter, a mystic, a dancer, but not a politician. Anything except that. So in this way we will destroy the political power which has been the whole torture in the past.”
            (Osho: ‘The Golden Future’)”

            Reminded me of a recently watched ‘Designated Survivor’ on Netflix & the older webseries, ‘House of Cards’ was a complete antithesis of it.

            • Yes, Osho chose president of His empire, a real estate developer and a doctor.

              In a way, Osho has chosen no one, real estate developer and a doctor took the words out from master´s mouth.

              “Let others do the dirty work, I would do preaching” seems to be the life Sutra of Gurus Inc. Donation Ltd.

        • Klaus says:

          “We are all soldiers of heaven on our way to eternity.”

          Not quite my wording.

          Jesus rules.
          But so do others.
          This universe rules.
          But so may others.

    • satchit says:

      Sane conversation is not possible with someone who is paranoid. The person has no disease insight.

      The covid climate creates fear. Mostly people react rationally and protect themselves. A few react irrationally and create mental sickness.

      • frank says:

        Maybe slipping into paranoia, in the case of spiritual seekers, certainly of the `positive thinking` variety, is an outcome of excessive attempts to continually psyche themselves into feeling that everything is going their way, their practice is keeping them one-up on maya, unconsciousness, ego, false self, illness, evil etc.

        Then, when an event, such as a global virus, threatens core ideas such as “you create your own reality” and the yogic/well-being idea that your health is somehow completely down to your efforts on the path (only neurotics/sexually repressed get cancer, good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people) the construct flips and then it is necessary to project blame wholesale onto the outside. Then “They” are responsible and the inner battle to stay one-up presents as an evil force in the outside world trying to fuck your consciousness?

    • kavita says:

      Thanks, Frankie, for mentioning about the Osho News discussion.

      It was interesting to see views being discussed, even though I don’t agree on every point, it did seem they were effortlessly sharing, which was enjoyable & interesting.

      https://watch.eventive.org/illuminate/play/5f603b93a6f52b0055a1b7a2

  6. Lokesh says:

    Satchit enquires, “Why should a Jehovah’s Witness not be allowed to write here?”
    I’d say because they are completely stupid people who have been brainwashed. I’ve chatted with a few Jehovah bots over the years and found that they don’t have an original thought in their heads. They take everything that is said in The Bible literally and have no idea that the good book is in many places an esoteric text.

    A good example of these esoteric ideas can be found in Mr G’s teachings, which have often been described as a form of esoteric Christianity. A good example would be the story of Noah’s Ark, which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with an old guy and his family going for a cruise with a zoo’s worth of animals and birds for company. The story of the ark is at heart a description of man’s situation on a planet strongly influenced by universal laws, and how to get out from under those oppressive laws. Try telling that to a Jehova’s Witness.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the present world order, which they perceive as being under the control of Satan, will be ended by a direct intervention of Jehovah (God), who will use Jesus Christ to fully establish his heavenly government over earth, destroying existing human governments and non-Witnesses, thus creating a cleansed society of true worshippers who will live forever. They see their mission as primarily evangelical (disseminating “good news”), to warn as many people as possible in the remaining time before Armageddon. All members of the denomination are expected to take an active part in preaching, which is why Sam posts his derisory stuff on SN. He believes he is doing God’s work. Witnesses refer to all their beliefs collectively as “the Truth” Which of course is a load of childish bollocks that also happens to be very negative.

    Anyone with a little intelligence who checks world news can easily see that idiots are running the show, a complete nutter in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth who has the nuclear option at his disposal. It’s insane. We need places that we can take a breather from the nut jobs. SN can function like that. Yet you, Satchit, are asking why not allow Sam the man on board our wee boat afloat in a sea of madness? I ask you.

    Satchit, do you really think inviting a Jehovah’s Witness to write on SN is a good idea? Because if you do you must be as away with the fairies as Sammy boy is. People like Sam actually believe people like you are the spawn of Satan. I cannot imagine a group of weirdoes further away from the concept of sannyas than the Jehovah’s witnesses.

    • swamishanti says:

      You don’t seem to have much respect for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Lokesh.

      Actually, a couple of nights ago I watched a film premiere on BBC 2, featuring the lives of a family of Jehovah’s Witnesses – the mother and two daughters. One of the daughters began a relationship with a new boyfriend, began to have doubts about the whole faith that she had been raised with, and was subsequently excommunicated by the congregation – at the Kingdom Hall where they gather. According to the rules of the elders this meant that she also had to be shunned by her own family, despite being pregnant.

      This made a difficult situation for the mother and the other daughter. All in all, an interesting watch.

      Actually, I had some old friends who became Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I can say with all honesty that they’re not actually as brainwashed as some of them may seem. In fact, my old friends are very open-minded people. They were attracted to the Jehovah’s Witness faith, primarily as a heart-based teaching, with faith in Jesus and essentially, what they perceived to be a teaching that brought out the inherent ‘goodness’ in humankind. Jehovah they believed to be a ‘God of Love’.

      Not at all bad folks. And, they still had respect for people with other beliefs and other spiritual paths, including sannyasins, at it happens.

      So, they are not all so narrow-minded and fanatical as they may appear.

      My friends are now no longer Jehovah’s Witnesses, they moved away from that some years ago.

      The fact is that Sam Lucas made a comment here, he received a question from Frank, which he answered in his own way. I see personally no reason why his answer should not have been published. Therefore I agree with Satchit in that respect.

      Really, whatever spiritual path people are attracted to and follow, there will be always be the ones that are narrow-minded and cannot tolerate other teachings – the fanatics – and this applies just as much to Osho sannyasins as any other spiritual group.

      I have seen sannyasins who cannot even approach the idea of a Creator God, just because it was not Osho’s way or belief. Or they dismiss certain ideas of other paths just because Osho had. Osho had his own experience of God realisation and enlightenment but it didn’t reveal any type of individual creator God/manager of events to him. Still, this really doesn’t mean that such a being doesnt exist.

      Osho was limited to his own experience. Still, he had a lot of trust in ‘Existence’ and I suspect that he often received glimpses of future events that came to pass, possibly the destruction of the Ranch, Sheela’s arrest, etc., which may have led him to understand that there probably is some type of Higher Intelligence, Universal power behind events, which he probably regarded as a ‘mystery’- rather than something he tried to pretend to understand how it worked, or just parroting the ideas given in various scriptures or unverified beliefs passed down through time.

      In the end, it all boils down to how open-minded the individual is.

      Osho encouraged his sannyasins to be as open-minded as possible and disliked dogmas.

      Sam Lucas doesn’t comment much on SN, but I feel he has as much right to air his views as any other contributor, sannyasin, ex-sannyasin, etc. (as long as he doesn’t become abusive, of course). He doesn’t seem to appear to want to write much anyhow. But he was asked a question by Frank, part of which appeared on the Caravanserai page, but was hidden from the main page. Therefore his answer to Frank has not been shown.

      MOD:
      Perhaps Frank can clarify whether he expected an answer or whether his question was purely rhetorical?

      • frank says:

        MOD,
        I didn`t really expect an answer and predictably, he just trotted out some more standard JW propaganda.

        It`s a simple thing, imv:
        Religionists who believe that their book is the indisputable word of God, be it the Koran, the Bible or the Gita have taken a default position that rules them out of almost every possibility of interesting conversation or real dialogue. That`s their choice. Or maybe it`s not their choice because they have been been brainwashed, groomed, bullied into it. Either way, chit-chat with them is unlikely to set the Thames on fire!

      • Lokesh says:

        Shanti says, “You don’t seem to have much respect for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Lokesh.”
        Really? I have no idea how Shanti could imagine that. Prince was a Jehovah’s Witness and I thought he was an absolutely wonderful guy. Felt sad when he died in an elevator.

        As for Sam Lucas, I am not at all interested in anything he has to say. My crystal ball tells me next time he shows up on SN he will give a few pertinent quotes from the Bible.

        Shanti reveals, “Osho had his own experience of God realisation and enlightenment.”
        It has been established by ye ancient Sages of Auld Lang Syne that enlightenment is not an experience.

        • swamishanti says:

          Funnily enough, I was also thinking that line, “Enlightenment is not an experience”, when I wrote that Osho had his own experience of God reaslisation and enlightenment. The problem is language is very limited, so I had to write it that way to fit.

          Jesus said, “Ask and ye shall recieve.” So next time Sam shows up and comments on the topic, don’t ask him anything if you don’t expect an answer!

          Although it’s 2/2 so far as to whether his last comment shows up. After all, the MOD has to maintain some impartiality.

          • Lokesh says:

            Yes, Shanti, all good. I think the MOD need not be impartial. Having a JW spouting biblical quotations on SN is not on as far as I am concerned. Just like in real life most JWs are a laughable pest.

            I’m quite well read in relation to the Bible. Couple of years back I had two JWs show up at my gate. I asked them in for tea. Of course, Bible quotes began to flow. I began to enquire about this and that and those poor guys were drawing blanks. I felt sorry for them in the sennse that their whole approach was based on memory with nothing of substance in their lives to back it up.

            Faith for me is simply reinforced belief. I agree totally with Osho when he says, “I am not a believer.” Neither am I.

            • swamishanti says:

              When the Jehovah’s Witnesses show up at my door, sometimes I tell them, “My God is ‘the Lord of the Vagina’, ‘Bhagwan’. At least that is what someone said that’s what it means in one of the books I’ve read. Although other people told that me that ‘Bhagwan’ means something else: one who is ‘God realised‘. Have you heard of him?”

              That’s usually enough to put them off. But, intelligent ones will try to continue the conversation, especially if I mention the yoni worship of the Goddess Shakti.

              Anyhow, I don’t see anything wrong with Sam Lucas making one or two comments on a thread , which contain Biblical references – especially this one where conspiracy theories and prophecies of world destruction, of Armageddon are specifically coming up and being discussed, which people like the JWs and Christians of other sorts discuss all the time.

              Anyhow, Sam Lucas doesn’t seem to want to bother to write anything here anyway most of the time, can’t see it becoming a problem. And the site is almost empty anyway.

              • frank says:

                My wife recently fell out with one of her best friends over the conspiracy nonsense. This friend suddenly got taken with all the Icke/elite/covid hoax bollox and was banging on and being very pushy about it. My wife said to her, “You sound like a Jehovah`s Witness.”

                This was the ultimate insult! The friend was very angry and offended. They have hardly spoken since.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Frank, are you sure your wife is who you really think she is? I mean, she could be a working for the Harvest aka, ‘Illuminati’.

                  You might not even realise that she has actually been a ‘sleeper’ for them, living as your wife but waiting to jump into action if the situation required it all this time. Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but look how she quickly put off the friend who was trying to warn you of the Illuminati /Covid conspiracy, and managed to convince you that it was all a lot of bollox?

                • frank says:

                  I don`t need much convincing.

    • satchit says:

      No, Lokesh, Sam does not believe that I am the spawn of Satan. He is a fan of me. He said re my comment, “that’s the most sensible thing he has read here for a long time”.

      Our wee boat SN will not have problems on the sea because of this stowaway Sam, Jehovah’s Witness.

      Our boat SN will have problems because there is no money for surviving.

      Still playing poker, Lokesh?
      Maybe you should gain a bit of money!

      • Lokesh says:

        Currently, I cannot play poker because of covid.

        Satchit, seeing as how you are a non-witness, according to Sam Lucas you are destined to be destroyed because you are under the power of Satan, so there is no hope for you.

        • swamishanti says:

          I don’t think that all Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that it is only themselves who will survive the Armageddon.

          Our old friends who became JWs for a time certainly didn’t believe that, and Rastafarians who also take the Old Testament prophecies of Armageddon seriously, also don’t believe that it is only themselves who will survive – rather those who are judged to be righteous, whilst the corrupted and ruling powers will be wiped out to make way for a better world. A lot of Rastafarians’ beliefs are actually pretty similar in many ways to the JWs’ (except they make much better music).

          Many newagers and conspiracy theorists have adopted similar beliefs taken (consciously or unconsciously) from the Biblical prophets, of a huge change which will witness the collapse of the current system, targeting leaders of the world’s governments, corporations and religious institutions identified closely with the old order.

          According to Isiah 65:17, the old order will be destroyed in a “fire” of anarchy – in preparation for the blessings of a “new heaven and a new earth” .

          So I don’t see Sam Lucas really as too much of a fanatic. Just someone who is into his biblical passages. If a Rasta was posting on here from time to time I can’t see it posing a problem.

          • frank says:

            Shanti,
            You say: “Many newagers and conspiracy theorists have adopted similar beliefs taken (consciously or unconsciously) from the Biblical prophets.”

            That`s at the core of the problem with conspirituality.
            It`s based in many ways on the insanity of literal interpretations of the OT.
            It`s a fucking nightmare.

            It is quite literally a retardation back to the cultural brainwashing of early life, dressed up as some kind of rebellious vision.

            MOD:

            Sam’s certainly, as Swamishanti says, “into his biblical passages”, his lengthy and so far unpublished post contains 31 Biblical quotes and references.

            His other post consists of a picture of some lost-and-bewildered-looking souls, with an accompanying text condemning their/our appalingly immoral sexual behaviour.

            • swamishanti says:

              Young anti-globalism activists/anarchists, some of the ones who believe in all the Illuminati /new world order conspiracy stuff, are also turning on to Osho:

              https://youtu.be/A001OIft_RY

              • frank says:

                The Nazis were `turned on` to Nietzsche.
                The Spanish Inquisition was turned on to Jesus.
                Fascists are turned on to psychedelics.
                Hippies are turned on to Trump.

                It`s a funny old world!

                • frank says:

                  I`m surprised that the conspiritualists haven`t wheeled out the Nine Unknown Men yet.

                  Give it just a little more time, I guess….

                • swamishanti says:

                  Covid conspiracy or not, there has been a growing anger and cry for change towards the powers-that-be – whether they are the Heads of Goverment,* or those multi-national corporations which are even more powerful than the governments that hold secret meetings and can infuence and control the media.**

                  And a showdown leading to the establishment of a new age of righteousness.

                  Perhaps encapsulated in this closing track to Leftfield’s classic 1995 ‘Leftism’ progressive house/ techno album, ‘21st Century Poem’:
                  https://youtu.be/o6PjVS_jVok

                  Although Osho used to say that all outer revolutions will fail until an inner revolution takes place on a wide scale.

                  *Lee Scratch Perry, ‘Heads of Government’:
                  https://youtu.be/-38Ew-ATAC8

                  **Dub Syndicate, ‘Corporation’:
                  https://youtu.be/B267zOYEq4Y

            • swamishanti says:

              MOD: I saw the image from Sam Lucas which he must have posted on the caravanserai as well, which looked like a standard piece of JW Watchtower imagery to me. The group of people in the backround didn’t look “lost and bewildered” to me, rather more as if they were marching forward triumphantly together in some heavenly future.

              Personally, I think the positive aspect of the Jehovah’s Witnesses faith is it does teach people to live in a heart-orientated space, which is certainly helpful in this crazy world. The negative aspects of the teachings are the fostering of extreme guilt and unhealthy negativity towards natural sexual desires and pleasures, and also the development of a belief system based on the fear of hell and punishment, retribution for ‘bad acts’ plus a promise of a future heaven and paradise on Earth for those displaying acts considered ‘good’. Some of the damaging effects of these kind of Christian anti-life teachings and programming were well documented and exposed by Osho.

              Personally, from what I have read anyway, Osho thought that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were a bit of a joke.

              It is also notable that the amongst other groups that teach extremely negative, unnatural condemning attitudes to sex, such as the Roman Catholic Church and the ISKCON (Hari Krishnas), the Jehovah’s Witnesses have also had a huge child abuse scandal which has been exposed in recent years.

              However, I would not encourage any fear when Biblical verses appear. There is also a lot of wisdom to be found there. I was reminded by this little conversation today, as I often am, of music and I have just been listening to some very positive vibrations indeed from Bob Marley’s Rastaman Vibration album.

              I have most of Marley’s albums and there are always countless references to Biblical verses in his lyrics, which are meaningful and well placed.

              All in all, I am very grateful for Rasta music and have rather a large amount in my collection, including the Wailers, Lee Scratch Perry, Dub Syndicate, African Headcharge, all the conscious ragga and too many more to mention here.

              I also have no doubt, although I do not share all of their beliefs, that Rastafari is an authentic spiritual, consciousness-raising path. Especially the Nyabinghi practise of chanting, drumming and smoking that is central to their spiritual meditative practices. One love.

              I am also a bit of a djembe drummer myself and I was fortunate to have a skilled teacher who had studied in Africa.

              MOD:
              Ok, Swamishanti, I might well be mistaken about that picture, as I only had a brief glance at it, focusing mainly on the statements covering it.

            • swamishanti says:

              It’s not only the new-agers and the conspiracy theorists. Also, amongst many of the western spiritual seekers attracted to Advaita or those claiming enlightenment and teaching or giving satsangs in the modern Neo-Advaita scene, it seems there is a certain tendency to be still carrying a strong Christian conditioning which may make some of them recoil in horror after hearing about the rumours of what could be going on down at the local Osho commune down the road, after the Armageddon has passed.

              Gangaji, one of the satsang-givers who claimed awakening after spending some time with Poonjaji, had some issues in 2005 when her husband, Eli Jaxon-Bear, admitted to her that he had had a three-year affair with an adult female student and executive director of his organization, the Leela Foundation.

              Gangaji had already suspected that something was going on and asked her husband about it but he had previously denied it.

              After a brief separation, Gangaji and her husband reconciled their marriage in December 2005.

              In October 2006, Jaxon-Bear disclosed his extra-marital relationship to the Gangaji Foundation’s board of directors and staff. For a time Jaxon-Bear stopped teaching and expressed his guilt about lying to his wife and the affair.

              After this incident, Gangaji and eventually she and her husband, held retreats on the subjects of disillusionment, betrayal and relationship.

              Some have raised questions around Advaita Guru Ramesh Balsekar sleeping (or enjoying cuddles, as he put it) with several of the younger women who were visiting him in his satsangs in Bombay.

              Yet Ramesh, along with his own master Nisargaddata Maharaj, was part of an ancient Indian Natha tantric lineage that originated with the master, Rishi Dattareya, now considered a deity by the Hindus.

              Rishi Dattatreya is said to have lived an unconventional life, first renouncing the world and becoming an ascetic and living in the jungle and meditating, only to emerge later, to begin living and sleeping with Indian maidens, celebrating and dancing, and eating meat and drinking alchohol.

              Rishi Dattatreya is considered by some to be the originator of Tantra and is also the author of the 5,000 year-old Avadhuta Gita, which is considered one of the greatest treatises of Advaita Vedanta.

              https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Avadhoota-Gita.pdf

              Originally a work of seven chapters, an eighth chapter was later added to the Advadhuta Gita which is likely to have been an attempt to append sexual morality to the Natha tradition by a conservative ascetic.

              Rishi Dattatreya also appears in several Upanishads and is the author of two tantric texts, the Haritayana Samhita and Dattatreya Tantra.

              Mooji has said that when he spent time with Poonja in Lucknow he first encountered sannyasins and he began to realise that they “think about things in a different way.”

              Now, according to the rumours, apparently Mooji is enjoying rotating different girlfriends in his own commune which has grown up around him.

              Here’s Mooji reading from the Advadhuta Gita :

              https://youtu.be/LApK8nrI1so

              But it seems that particularly the Americans appear to carry a strong Christian conditioning which leads them to prefer the ideal of the celibate, enlightened sage such as Ramana with his simple ‘wear nothing all day except for a large nappy’, no frills style. Rolls Royces are out of the question.

              Either that, or it’s got to be a monogamous relationship, family life and preferably, marriage, such as that espoused by Poonjaji.

              Living in the world, leading a normal life with 2.4 children and remaining a meditator seems to have become fashionable these days.

              But let’s face it, working full-time in the world and especially, raising kids as well, leaves little time to spend hours every day in meditation.

              This is still living as part of the ‘Rat Race’, as Marley put it:

              https://youtu.be/QSHyZ6bGGjs

              Even if you get to spend several months a year travelling in India or elsewhere. Getting seriously involved in meditation then becomes luxury reserved for the super-rich or the elderly.

              Osho’s vision of a world of inter-connected communes, where people can do away with devoting their lives to being a cog in the machine with the 9 to 5 and the standard family unit, and live together communally with plenty of time for both meditation and work, would sound far too similar to the concept of the Kibbutz to the certain breed of right-wing conspiracy theorists such as Q-Anon and Anti-Matrix who, amongst other things, are propagating that the spread of Communism was a plot dreamed up by the small band of the Jewish elite that is controlling world events.

              • frank says:

                Osho certainly let the cat out of the bag with the “you can be sexy and spiritual at the same time.”

                Fact is. though, the power dynamic between these gurus and their birds is always pretty lopsided.
                Like this, how different are they from any other powerful guy who uses his position and money to get sex and keep his women from ever really becoming on a par with them?

                That was probably the case with these old tantric guys from the past who were most likely shagging the low-status hookers from down the temple.

                But really, who knows about all those guys from obscure scriptures, what was really going on?
                Osho is living memory for us and yet already the `story` varies from ‘Wild Wild Country’/tabloid sex guru to master of masters.
                Hagiography versus hatchet job again.

                What to say about old tantricas allegedly getting their chuddies off and sinking a few bottles of feni centuries ago?

                Btw, here`s a vid of the Dude himself quoting from the Advadude Sutra:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHLelReSWdY

                • swamishanti says:

                  The way I see the dynamic is:

                  Enlightened folks are always magnetic and attractive to the opposite sex, even if they are in their seventies as Ramesh must have been. Osho was fortunate to have a lot of young chicks coming up from Goa and visiting him.

                  Some of the scriptures are full of stories of celibate saints resisting the lure of attractive women. In the Srimad Bhagavatam, a series of scriptures important to Vaishnavas (Hari Krishnas), there is one story of a woman who iis mpossibly attracted to the young saint who spends his time chanting in the jungle. But he maintains his self- =control and is able to reject her advances.

                  In another story, Shiva is meditating in the jungle when a very attractive woman attempts to seduce him with her dance. Shiva takes the bait and has to chase the woman across the earth. (In this story I think the woman is a god in disguise).

                  As Shiva chases the woman around, in his excitement a few drops of semen drop down to the earth from his lingam. Where these drops of semen fall on the ground, silver and gold mines begin to sprout and grow.

                  After he catches up with the women and makes loves with her , Shiva feels tired , angry and depleted . This is not a tantric story , it is a Vaishnava story , that is meant to illustrate the value of semen retention and celibacy in meditation.

                  Vaishnavi sannyasins are generally expected to remain completely celibate.

                  In Osho’s case, I think he was fortunate to start getting a lot of women coming and visiting him in the early seventies and he was soon surrounded by lots of young women.

                  It was only natural in this situation that some of these hippy chicks were extremely attracted to him and some of the very lucky ones even managed to get the transmission from his lingam. Or perhaps just a cuddle.

                  In Ramesh’s case, I gather he was already pretty old when he began becoming popular and well known on the spiritual scene in the nineties and the 2000s.

                  Ramesh was also getting lots of female visitors to his flat in Bombay, and some of these women thought he was cute and didn’t want to just listen to Ramesh’s excellent exposition of Advaita, some of them also fancied a shag.

                  Poor old Nisargaddata Maharaj was not as fortunate as his disciple.
                  He was not a wealthy man like Ramesh, and lived in a tiny flat in a poor area of Bombay, nearby to the red light district.
                  They actually built a public toilet right outside his flat, I remember him complaining about it in one of the dialogues of his talks.
                  This kind of living in poverty is very attractive to those with a strong Roman Catholic/Christian conditioning, but Nisargaddata Maharaj was not surrounded by women and he had to visit the local prostitute.

                  This is the normal practice for men in the Indian culture which has been devoid of free love, of course.

                  Jesus used to visit the prostitute Mary Magdalene, but Christians will tell you that nothing sexual was going on.

                  Some tantrics have also historically used prostitutes for some of their rituals…which sometimes take place in the cremation ground.

                  You can picture the scene… there are some lit candles in the darkness, a couple of sticks of incense burning, some flowers are strewn around, the embers of a fire glowing somewhere in the backround. Meanwhile, a dreadlocked Baba is busy whispering mantras, his head in between a damsel’s legs which are spread open….

                • Lokesh says:

                  Tony Montana says, “In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.”

                • frank says:

                  Krishnamurti had a long term (25 years) clandestine sexual relationship with Rosalind Rajagopal, his manager`s wife.

                  He was keen to keep it secret (from his followers and the public) and indeed it remained so until after his death. This was clearly done to preserve his public image. Sad, really, as by all accounts their relationship was rather a loving and caring one until they fell out. But it didn`t stop him from advising celibacy, making it pretty clear to his fanbase in his talks that he was above it.

                  Some confusion or split in the man, it seems, coming from his Brahminical/upper class Brit Xian upbringing as well as issues of `brand management`, it seems.

                  Freddie Nietzsche said, “I would only believe in a god who could dance.”
                  Maybe that should be updated to “I could only believe in a god who gets his/her rocks off”?

                • frank says:

                  Tony Montana is definitely enlightened. His words have the `ring of truth`.

                • swamishanti says:

                  ‘Cock-ring’ of truth?

                • frank says:

                  Er…yes…there are a lot of similarities between the master/disciple relationship and the BDSM scene, not least that they both use a lot of `devices`.

                • swamishanti says:

                  “ A man’s got to do what a man’s got to do…” as Shyam Singha once sang. This recording something to do with the Tan-Ju teens program at the Humaniversity? I’ve noticed a few videos of his musical creations up on YouTube and I get the impression that this was some kind of collaboration with the Humaniversity Sound.

                  https://youtu.be/JlVg7KJ0OKU

    • swamishanti says:

      No, I don’t believe that the story of Noah is purely metaphorical. Actually it probably is about an old guy building a boat and going off with his family and a collection of animals. I’m used to seeing people driving around and towing horses behind in boxes. Whether the precise details of the story are correct or not, ie pairs of all the animals, was there actually more than one boat? Etc…

      The thing is that the story of a Great Flood that submerged the earth under water appears in several other ancient cultures. Some Native American tribes and the Aztecs believed that they had originated from a continent that was completely submerged and lost under water, and also have stories of a great flood. There was said to be a group of very advanced people in a land named ‘Mu’ who had lived peacefully and were into meditation. And in other reports it is known as ‘Lemuria’. And the story also appears in Hinduism.

      • satyadeva says:

        Perhaps these ancient tales of ‘Great Floods’ are partly or even largely metaphorical, the ‘drowning’ under water an image describing the descent of earlier civilisations into decadence and eventual inner and outer self-destruction?

        Is our own so-called ‘civilisation’ nearing a similar tipping point, climate change melting mountain and polar snow and ice that’s moving ever closer towards a similar end scenario? Not to mention nuclear weapons…

        Ultimately due to similar causes, perhaps, as the fate of those that went before, ie spiritually ignorant masses of people drowning in emotional upheaval and anguish, while their leaders play self-serving power games based on fear?

        (Still, at least America is getting rid of Trump…Or is it? Who knows, he might be around for years, whipping up his mobs into civil war-type mode?*).

        So what’s the contemporary world’s equivalent of Noah’s Ark? Could it be those who’ve at least heard and welcomed ‘the Truth’, however imperfect their responses, and who accept that the only refuge is ‘within’?

        Could the UK National Lottery marketing department be on the right lines when they suggest, “It Could Be You!”?

        *Surely no one would want to miss that – make sure you renew your tv licence!

        • frank says:

          Here`s a ref:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

          Floods and natural disasters are probably humans’ worst fear.
          Eg More people died in 2 hours in the SE Asia tsunami in 2004 than in 4 grim years in the Syrian civil war.
          Some archaeologists also attribute the birth of civilisation as well as their deaths to natural disasters.
          https://slate.com/technology/2015/11/floods-led-to-civilization-archaeology-lessons-on-climate.html

          Attributing it to God/gods/goddesses and cosmic dads teaching their unruly kids a lesson seems to be a common interpretation. Whether it`s actually true or not, it could be quite literally a case of “whatever floats your boat”!

          • frank says:

            It seems that these myths are based on real events. Humans like to live near the sea and water in general so have always been vulnerable.

            But the whole world being flooded, like in Noah, is an exaggeration, altho` it probably feels like it when you`re in it.

            It`s well iffy, this being alive lark.

        • swamishanti says:

          Yeah, although I find many Wikipedia pages are extremely useful sources of information in many cases, they do also have to be taken with a pinch of salt which is largely down to the way that the individual articles are written and presented, which sources are used, who has been involved in composing and writing, etc.

          The idea that floods, tsunamis, earthquakes, droughts, thunderstorms and any major natural catastrophes are caused by the wrath of God(s) is an old idea in all cultures.

          When I visited various areas on the Indian coast of Orissa in 2000, they were still recovering from the aftermath of a massive supercyclone which had raged for days and included a tidal wave which had flooded the area.

          The damage caused to people’s lives was tremendous. One of the priests was telling villagers that it was because they had not been donating enough money to the local temple.

          Whatever really happened, the occurrence of this same story of the flood, which reappears in so many different areas and cultures around the world, and the common tale of an exodus and survival* on the waves of the sea in boats until dry land was finally found, whether it is some of the Native American tribes paddling in their canoes, or the Indian or Jewish versions of Manu or Noah receiving visions or warnings and scaping in their boats, r the Aztecs or the Mayans – or esoteric channellings of Madame Blavatsky and the stories of the lost continent of Lemuria or Mu…I suspect that there was some global event that is the source of these stories which have now become religious myths.

          *Could be a hint there to two excellent Bob Marley albums: ‘Exodus’ and ‘Survival’.

        • swamishanti says:

          @satyadeva
          “(Still, at least America is getting rid of Trump…Or is it? Who knows, he might be around for years, whipping up his mobs into civil war-type mode?*).”

          So America has finally gotten rid of their idiot in office – but the question now is can we get rid of our own imbecile blond boy Boris in the UK? Joe Biden has called Boris a ‘physical and emotional clone of Trump’.

          Surely Labour would have had more chance in the last election had Corbyn stepped down a couple of years before.

          “So what’s the contemporary world’s equivalent of Noah’s Ark? Could it be those who’ve at least heard and welcomed ‘the Truth’, however imperfect their responses, and who accept that the only refuge is ‘within’?“

          Perhaps it’s the ‘Noah’s Ark of Consciousness’ that Osho spoke about.

          • frank says:

            Tbf, Osho`s `Noah Ark of Consciousness` seems to have banged into a few icebergs along the way.

            Still, some of us in the lifeboats, rowing away towards eternity`s sunrise, might make it or end up wrecked on the shores of infinity….

            • satchit says:

              “Tbf, Osho`s `Noah Ark of Consciousness` seems to have banged into a few icebergs along the way.”

              A Master is by definition not a victim.

              He plays the role he wants to play.

              Others play their roles, maybe some new Judas on the stage at Oberammergau Passion Play.

  7. Lokesh says:

    Never trust anyone who only reads one book (Billy Connolly).
    Or, slightly less concisely….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlh4ia6XWGU

  8. frank says:

    Anand Yogi reports from Bungabungalore Ashram:

    “Certainly, a lockdown is necessary to stop the virus of negativity and unconsciousness that is emanating from batshit crazy petri dish super spreader event of Sannyasnews from spreading globally and infecting even the holiest of disciples!

    The unconscious baboons have continuously ignored warnings of impending doom from Sam the Jehovah`s Witness and calls for compulsory euthanasia from Sam the Osho Witness, and they continue to abuse the freedom that Osho has given them with the shamelessness of a red-bottomed baboon relieving himself in front of live webcam in holy Samadhi!

    Instead of taking blue pill and egoistically titillating and titivating own sense-organs, these fools should wake up, take the red pill, and hurl selves at feet of Trumpj, iModi, Arun, Shantam, Brian and other inheritors of Osho`s vision!

    At a critical time like this when the very future of consciousness is at stake and great souls such as Nobby Norbu Rinpoche and important disciples of Q, such as Sean Connery, are leaving their bodies daily under the stress of it all, we should all be following dictats of master and putting the mind under strict lockdown, staying inside, and stray, wandering cogitations must be dealt with severely by thought police!

    There remains nothing more to say but to re-iterate guideline issued by Swami Bhorat this morning for coming lockdownL

    ‘Keep calm and Hari Om!’ “

  9. satchit says:

    Lockdown or not.

    A sannyasin celebrates the mystery of life and death.

    Om Shanti Om.

  10. kavita says:

    “Lockdown or not.
    A sannyasin celebrates the mystery of life and death.” –

    Well then, does this mean Iam not a sannyasin anymore, since I don’t need to celebrate both?!
    I shall celebrate to this!

  11. kavita says:

    Thanks, Satchit, for leading me to this clarity!

  12. frank says:

    I see that Osho News has put up an article:
    “Humanity has trolled itself into an awaken-or-die situation” which floats the idea that the world situation is like a supposed Zen story about a monk who “sat with a stick of incense in one hand and a knife in the other and vowed to kill himself if he didn’t get enlightened by the time the incense burned out. He got it just in time, pushed to the breaking point by the pain of the burning stub.”

    Sounds more like Bruce Willis in ‘Awaken Harder 3′ or ‘Ramana Goes To Hollywood’.

    And then, apparently, there`s going to be a “mass awakening”.

    As if one plague wasn`t enough, now we will have to deal with yet another wave of awakened cyber-messiahs, pound-shop saints, self-appointed avatars, profiteering online prophets and all the rest, saving the world and rabbitting on about their `awakening`.

    Beam me up, Scotty!

    • frank says:

      Btw, MOD,
      A bit late, but I noticed that the first line of the article reads:
      “In the last months, since the Covid emergency, many newsagents, including, of course, Osho sannyasins”
      That should be `many newagers`.

      Cheers

      MOD:
      At last! We couldn’t resist putting that one in. Just our way of having a bit of fun…in these ever so bleak times.

    • Lokesh says:

      Aye, Bones, it’s aww very weel for Osho News and their high falootin ideas, but am dealin with reality doon here in the engine room and am tellin ye the photo condenser tubes will no take it.

      Meanwhile, I wasn’t allowed to say anything until today, but it’s now okay for me to share that I have volunteered for the Covid-19 vaccine trials that St. Vincents are running in partnership with Pfizer. It’s important that we all do our part to beat this virus. The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia, Sputnik 5. I received my first dose this morning 06:20 am, and I wanted to let you all know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувю себя немного стрно и я думю, что вытл осные уши. чувству себя немго страо.

  13. Lokesh says:

    Down with the droogs in Moscow’s Moloko Milk Shake Bar.

    “Oh it was gorgeousness and gorgeosity made flesh. The trombones crunched redgold under my bed, and behind my gulliver the trumpets three-wise silverflamed, and there by the door the timps rolling through my guts and out again crunched like candy thunder. Oh, it was wonder of wonders. And then, a bird of like rarest spun heavenmetal, or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now, came the violin solo above all the other strings, and those strings were like a cage of silk round my bed. Then flute and oboe bored, like worms of like platinum, into the thick thick toffee gold and silver. I was in such bliss, my brothers.”

    Anthony Burgess, ‘A Clockwork Orange’

    • frank says:

      “There was me and my droogies down the Sannyasnews Koregova milk bar. We were drinking moloko plus which sharpens you up for a bit of the old ultra-awareness and gets you viddying Bog and his angels, but Shantdim was scratching his yarbles and thinking about the old in-out.

      “Come with uncle,” I said, “and hear all proper. Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited….”

      Stanley Frankbric, ‘The Clockwork Orange People’

  14. frank says:

    Btw,
    What is happening at the Resort these days?
    Will the gora masters ever be let back in after they had to leave because of the virus?
    Will it eventually become another regular holy pilgrimage spot for locals banging their head on the marble and so on?
    Are the days of the Resort, that veritable Costa del Sol of consciousness, Buddhist Benidorm (or was it totalitarian Torremolinos?) finally over?

    • swamishanti says:

      I should imagine the Resort is a pretty quiet place these days.
      Blessed with silence. As Indian tourism crumbles once again for another winter, this time on a much larger scale not seen in recent times or perhaps ever.

      India is now in its third lockdown, so I’ve been told.

      I have noticed that the Oshoworld site run by sannyasins in Delhi is currently down, as it is being reconstructed, and I happened to stumble upon this site earlier today:

      http://www.oshoworld.net/

      Which is not Oshoworld in Delhi, it is an Osho ashram and meditation centre in UP, not the same as Oshodham.

      I guess that there have been many Osho centres, and ashrams and centres around the subcontinent and various gurus in the Osho stream still funtioning here and there around the world . Gurus and disciples have been wearing their face-masks, of course.

      But I gather from Oshonews , that there has been a lot of online meditation group events and streaming zoom ‘meet-ups’ in the ‘sannyas community’ and of course, some love their Facebook.

      Meanwhile, there is the huge Osho sannyas forum in Russia, with over 4000 members. A virtual ‘Red Army’ of sannyasins, with a long list of forum topics, various chat rooms including discussion of sports events, poetry and art, Tarot cards, jokes , virtual dating area and other facilities. No , I’m not joking:

      http://www.oshoworld.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=64105

      There is also some advertising on the site.

      And as I mentioned on the other thread, I expect, like the Russian site, there may well be a Japanese, and at least one South American forum. As far as Europeans and North America go, there are various online sannyas ‘clubs’, which appear to have been running for several years, where people hold online discussions via yahoo mail lists and sites, yet these are hidden from the search engine and you must sign up to join. I have never bothered looking into these groups. Apparently they are about to close anyway at the end of the year, something to do with Yahoo groups closing down:

      http://www.sannyas.net/sannyas_communications.htm

      Perhaps any closures of these groups will usher in the birth of a new site. Rebirth follows death. And so the cycles continue.

      • swamishanti says:

        Re the Resort:

        According to the sannyaswiki, apparently Amrito has a flat in Hove. Perhaps he has been living there for the past several months. Yet word on the street is that now Jayesh’s Canadian brother Yogendra is now going by the name of Devaraj (Amrito’s old sannyas name) , and is also sharing the same address in Hove. Confusing?

        • frank says:

          Hello, Swami Ali here,

          Sannyas ]in Russia very strong! Red army of sannyas spreading like wildfire and coming to dominate world very soon, so be very aware, swami, and not speak negative blabla about 10,000 Red army buddhas or, after Crimea, I come to Hove and put my foot in your ass!

          I want to go Osho Cocoon Mexico to see living buddha but Bill Gates creating Covid hoax and stopping all flights to control unconscious masses, frighten sheeple and euthanise buddhas, so apart from short holiday in Salisbury where I meditate in Cathedral, drink Novochok milkshakes, vandalise 5G masts and practise martial arts on BT employees, I stay here in Chernobyl Electroshock Hospital where I convert many inmates to Sannyas!

          In America we Russian sannyasins very good at internet. In America, we use it to elect true orange person and leader of American white robe brotherhood, Trumpji in White House to help spiritual wasteland of West and teach that the lie of the orange man is more true than the truth of the far-left homosexual LGBT socialist sleepy snowflake baboon!

          Trumpji, like real Indian guru, using crazy wisdom! He use time-honoured methods of gurus like speaking in language mind cannot understand and using money and power to grab pussy of female disciples and saying to egos of male disciples: “You`re fired!”, while all deeply religious people bow at his feet!

          I have important message for British sheeple and failed ex-sannyasins in UK. No need to believe mainstream media Covid hoax, only need to take mask and shirt off and show breasts like strong leader Putin and Rajneesh and then Covid run away very fast!

  15. kavita says:

    A flying birdie told me Yogendra is giving online Taichi classes daily at 8 pm IST!

    Another insider birdie shared the Resort will open as soon as A & J will arrive in Poona, ie when international flights resume in India for foreigners!

    Well, I will soon be travelling to the mountains!

    • swamishanti says:

      I guess that may be quite some time before the restrictions on International flights resume.

      From the Resort site:
      “The OSHO International Meditation Resort has to remain closed for the moment due to the coronavirus. Once the government restrictions have been lifted, we will look forward to welcoming you here again. Stay Safe.”

      From some of the photos on the page one can see Yogendra (aka Devaraj) giving Tai Chi lessons:
      https://www.osho.com/osho-meditation-resort

      Meanwhile, Osho Resort in Pune isn’t the only Osho place to have pyramids.
      In Osho’s birthplace, Kuchwada village, there is also a commune and meditation pyramid. Where people are practising dynamic, kundalini and others. A short glimpse in this video with music from Deuter:
      https://youtu.be/NEcE4nH1JV8

    • swamishanti says:

      Well, happy travels. I also made a conscious descision to return to India as soon as possible the other night after a couple of beers. But I don’t think you’ll be able to find any parties up there on this kind of scale for quite a while:

      https://youtu.be/r2V7DYA0Rso

  16. frank says:

    I see Osho News have wheeled out John Hogue/Arjuna and are advertising his latest book about US politics.

    He did make predictions about the election. This one was put out on Oct. 15, 2020:
    “Trump will have a second term.
    Trump’s Electoral College victory will be larger than 304 (2016) — closer to 320 this time.”

    Actual score:
    Biden 306
    Trump 232

    My advice is, if Hogue ever asks you to lend him a fiver to go down to the bookies with, cos he`s got a sure-fire tip on a two-horse race, have a think before you get your wallet out!

    Mind you, he`s unlikely to ask to borrow a fiver as he`s a well respected “Nostradamus expert” and for sure “where there`s muck there`s brass.”

    To bring this back to the thread topic, the link between this kind of rank nonsense and the rise of the conspirituality scene is clear.

    It`s all there: the narcissistic thinking that masquerades as some kind of magical superior spiritual wisdom that declares truth to be whatever fantasy it wants, with disregard for simple facts, critical thinking and basic intelligence.

    • swamishanti says:

      Nostradamus himself, although accurately predicting several future world events, also made some errors and predicted things that didn’t come to pass.

      It seems that, although humans are given the capacity to get a sneak preview of the ‘script’, some have this ability much more than others, whether it is through visions, dreams, or through being able to read the lines of someone’s hand, or in the case of Osho or other masters, just see many future events that come to pass through the silence of their minds; no human, no matter how enlightened, is able to see the whole story in advance.

      Whether the story has been carefully scripted and balanced, or whether the whole thing is a some kind of creative dream unfolding without any particular purpose, is unclear.

      It is also clear that we have the ability to create our reality to some extent; however, this does not mean that this ability has not already been written into the script.

      I don’t agree with Mother Meera when she says that around 20 per cent is predetermined and the other 80 per cent is open – I just don’t see how this would be possible as every event affects everything else.

      It would be impossible to have large, open, unscripted areas that are then shifted into the 20 per cent pre-scripted parts.

      I guess she must have the apparent experience of being able to change certain things, but not others, which she may attribute to a person’s ‘karmas’, may have led her to this conclusion. I expect she doesn’t think about it all that much though.

      • frank says:

        Shanti, you say:
        “Nostradamus himself, although accurately predicting several future world events….”

        Do you have any examples of this?

        • swamishanti says:

          Here are some examples here:

          https://whatdewhat.com/nostradamus-predictions-come-true/

          Included are the Great Fire of London in 1666, the French Revolution, the rise of Napoleon, Louis Pasteur, Adolf Hitler, Atomic Bombings, September 11th Twin Towers.

          I haven’t read any of John Hogue;s books. But I remember the introduction to ‘Bhagwan: Buddha For The Future’ (Juliet Foreman, 1988) when in his chart of Nostradamus’s prediction of a world spiritual teacher that would be born in the East and be the beginning of a new religious consciousness towards the end of the 20th century, I remember that Osho was the only one out of all the well known spiritual teachers/masters of the time who had all the signs given by Nostradamus. (Out of J. Krishnamurti, Adi Da, Moon, Sai Baba, Prabhupada, Muktananda, Paramahansa Yogananda – I don’t remember the rest).

          • Lokesh says:

            Not much interested in future predictions, seeing the future as uncertain.
            Just for the record, though, “Two steel birds will fall from the sky on the Metropolis/The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude/Fire approaches the great new city/Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up/Within months, rivers will flow with blood/The undead will roam the earth for little time.”

            It’s easy to fit these words to the actual events of 9/11, and much was made of the second line, as New York City (the “Metropolis”), lies at about 40 degrees north latitude. To someone reading Nostradamus for the first time, one could be convinced that he might have predicted the tragedy.

            If you’re familiar with the writings of Nostradamus, though, this particular prediction does not ring true: This writing is actually a hybrid of real Nostradamus verse and fiction, and whoever rewrote it was spectacularly sloppy. Not only is it not written in quatrain form (Nostradamus’s typical writing style) but the phrase “two steel birds” is an obvious giveaway, as steel wasn’t invented until 1854, nearly 200 years after Nostradamus died.

            • frank says:

              That those examples are portrayed as “accurate predictions” is farcical.
              Even taking account of convoluted translations of the already extremely hazy language Nostradamus used comprising of Greek, Italian, Latin and Provencal, how does the following constitute “Successfully predicting the Second World War”:

              “The two greatest ones of Asia and of Africa,
              from the Rhine and Lower Danube they will be said to have come,
              cries, tears at Malta and Ligurian side.”?

              Did you know that in the first edition of his Nostradamus book, Hogue interpreted the mentions of “Third Antichrist -`Mabus`” as the Ayatollah Khomeini. After Khomeini died, future editions of the same book were changed so that the third antichrist – Mabus became Saddam Hussein?!

              On top of that, Hogue can`t even match the success rate of Paul the Octopus:
              https://www.businessinsider.com/octopus-paul-world-cup-google-doodle-2014-6?r=US&IR=T

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, Osho could read the future like a book. He told everyone that one third of the world’s population would die from AIDS, Mount Fuji would erupt, California would tumble into the pacific and, most importantly of all, Zen would flower in the USA.

        One only needs to study American politics today to see that being in a state of no-mind is the only way to understand what the fuck is going on. Jai Bhagwan!

        • swamishanti says:

          That’s what I mean. No matter how psychic or how much an individual is able to foresee future events, the full story is never revealed to anyone, no matter how enlightened.

          There were plenty of times when Osho gave a glimpse of future events that would come to pass in a sannyasin’s future, often years in advance, as accounted by many sannyasins who were physically close to him.

          But, I remember somewhere he also said that he often could see things but felt he would rather remain silent and not give them away. He didn’t always want to interfere on that level.

          Yes, he did make some apocalyptic predictions that have not come to pass, it was actually two thirds of the earth’s population that he said he thought would die from AIDS, however I think this was his guesswork rather than any premonition on his part.

          To his credit, he was the first person to talk seriously in public about taking steps to control the spread of the virus, and when he did he was laughed at.

          As far as his apocalyptic statements, Mount Fuji erupting, collapsing into the sea, California tumbling into the Pacific, these things have not happened so far, but I don’t know what kind of time scale was he giving for these events.

          Several other masters of the last century gave apocalyptic predictions, Haidakan Babbaji was predicting that there would be massive destruction on a global scale, that most of the population of the USA would be mostly destroyed, whilst Russia would survive. Sai Baba also gave similar apocalyptic predictions, including rising sea levels, but said that after chaos a new golden age would arise.

          Yet both of these masters many times demonstrated that they could see accurately into people’s future and future events that would pass, as well as being able to see what was going on in someone’s life without being physically present.

          Some masters also use apocalyptic predictions and meditation on death to help to invoke a sense of impermanence and transcendental consciousness. There is a sutra from the Vigyana Bhairava Tantra :

          “Meditate on the make-believe world burning to ashes, and become above being human.”

          • Lokesh says:

            I found Osho’s future predictions period to be a bit of a low point in his career. In a way it was out of character for him. I heard that he came away with all that bullshit due to the influence of a PR expert who told Osho that if he wished to attract more followers, prophecies of doom and gloom was a tried and tested formula to achieve just that. It’s just a few steps up from those assholes in the street telling you the end is nigh. Really, who needs it? The idea of the future is a source of anxiety for many.

            If I find my mind drifting into the past I turn away from that direction, same goes for the future. Here and now is where life is really happening.

            • frank says:

              It`s very likely that Osho`s speaking/warning early about AIDS and the ensuing precautions amongst sannyasins did save some lives.

              But this was co-opting prediction/prophecy to push people into taking some kind of action.

              This is a different kind of thing to claiming Nozza predicted Princess Diana`s death or the Twin towers, which serves no purpose at all other than to further confuse already confused people about the nature of reality.

              • frank says:

                Further to this, I was knocking about in the Himalayas in the early 80s when I saw a notice on a Tibetan Buddhist centre noticeboard about Osho`s apocalyptic predictions about Cali falling into the sea etc. I thought, “Shit,I better get over there before the whole thing blows.” And I did.

                It was a bogus prediction but it helped push me to get over to Oregon, so I can vouch that, as Lokesh mentions, the operation boosted the number of punters at the Ranch by at least one!

                • frank says:

                  In the early days I suppose I thought that these kind of Nostradamus books had a value in that they were, through using the popularity of prediction and prophecy, a way to bring out-of-the-box ideas into the mainstream notice.

                  Like Osho`s ‘Nine Men’ rap or the magical stuff in ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’, Carlos Casteneda, Lobsang Rampa and so on, they could be seen as ways of opening people to the idea that there is a life beyond the mundane tick-tock world and the flatlands of unconsciousness, a `Wow` world inhabited by uber-wise magi, mystics, masters, occultists and shamans that reveal deeper truths about life.

                  It seems to me things have changed. The web has had a lot to do with it.
                  Far from opening people up to greater consciousness, these fictions – which, let`s be clear, always masquerade as truths, indeed higher truths than any truth as measured by ‘normal’ standards, have the effect of disabling basic elements of critical thinking and intelligence.

                  This playing fast-and-loose with the truth has been jumped on as a wonderful way of befuddling and controlling people, not only by religionists and cultists but now the mainstream. You could almost say that the mainstream political world has cottoned on to the cult mind-control techniques and are using them en masse.

                  I know that the world cannot be totally apprehended by the mind and its critical faculty alone – I am not a rationalist – but substituting a fantasy world doesn`t seem to be the answer either.

                  Maybe a bit of what some Buddhists call “bare attention” wouldn`t go amiss?

            • swamishanti says:

              I have searched and I cannot find anything Osho specifically said about Mount Fuji erupting again on California collapsing into the sea.
              I doubt that he really called in a PR agent to advise him what to say .
              I think I remember Osho talking about imminent catastrophe in one of the Rajneesh Bible discourses , but later in the same series of books in 1985 , he may have contradicted whatever he said back then.

              This is a qoute from an interview with the World Press, given in 1985.

              Q: YOU DO HAVE SOME FAITH IN THE PROPHECIES OF NOSTRADAMUS, THOUGH. IS THAT CORRECT?

              A: I don’t have any faith in him. The fact is that the man was crazy, and what he has written can be interpreted in any way you want. I found this rational analysis and managed to look into Nostradamus, and found similarities, which was very easy.

              Q: BUT HAVEN’T YOU USED HIM AS THE SOURCE OF THE PREDICTION THAT THIS DREAD DISEASE WOULD SWEEP THE EARTH?

              A: No. I use all kinds of devices. If people are foolish, I can use even their foolishness to raise their consciousness. I don’t feel any problem in it. If I was predicting on my own they would not listen to it, so I drag in Nostradamus.

              Osho: ‘The Last Testament’

              A couple of years later , back in Poona, Osho spoke about the Millennium book which had since been released on some of the predictions of Nostradamus, and had this to say:

              “Nostradamus was a great mystic with an insight into the future. And you will be surprised to know that in his predictions, I am included. Describing the teacher of the last days of the twentieth century, he gives eight indications. Krishnamurti fulfills five, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi fulfills three, Da Free John fulfills four — and I was amazed that I fulfill all eight. In this book MILLENNIUM, they have made a chart of the teacher about whom Nostradamus is predicting — that his people will wear red clothes, that he will come from the East, that he will be arrested, that his commune will be destroyed, that flying birds will be his symbol, that his name will mean moon…. Three hundred years ago that man was seeing something that fits perfectly with me — my name means “the moon.” And in their chart they have declared me the teacher of the last part of the twentieth century.

              …..

              Yes, all the predictions of the ancient seers, like Nostradamus, that the world is going to end by the end of this century, are true in a very different sense than has been understood. The old world is going to end, and a new world is going to begin. That is my interpretation of Nostradamus.”

              Osho: ‘The Golden Future’

              I found this link to a page from the Otoons site which is interesting as it features different qoutes from Osho on Nostradamus, as well as mentioning the world teacher prediction:

              http://otoons.de/osho_nostradamus.html#sthash.CnFcDUWs.dpbs

              And this end of the world and apocalyptic stuff had reminded of one of my favourite tracks , ‘The House At Pooneil Corners ‘ , from the excellent Jefferson Airplane album ‘Crown of Creation’ . Some of the lyrics in the track depicts the anticipated apocalypse and possible nuclear fallout.

              “ Everything someday will be gone except silence
              The Earth will be quiet again
              Seas from clouds will wash off the ashes of violence
              Left as the memory of men
              There will be no survivor my friend

              Suddenly everyone will look surprised
              Stars spinning wheels in the skies
              Sun is scrambled in their eyes
              While the moon circles like a vulture

              Someone stood at a window and cried one tear
              I thought that should stop a war
              But someone is killing me

              And that’s the last hour to think anymore
              Jelly and juice and bubbles, bubbles on the floor

              Castles on the cliffs vanish
              Cliffs like heaps of rubbish
              Seen from the stars hour by hour
              As splintered scraps and black powder

              From here to heaven is a scar
              Dead center, deep as death
              All the idiots have left
              The idiots have left
              Cows are almost cooing
              Turtle doves are mooing
              That is why a Pooh is poohing
              In the Sun…”

              Jefferson Airplane ‘The House At Pooneil Corners’

              And you can watch Jefferson Airplane performing this full track live in this spontaneous New York concert which they held on a roof in 1968 here , which took people in the area by surprise and was broken up by the police:

              https://youtu.be/rx_08cambjA

              • frank says:

                Shanti, you say you “have searched and I cannot find anything Osho specifically said about Mount Fuji erupting again on California collapsing into the sea.”

                That`s because Osho`s apocalyptic pronouncements came whilst he was in public silence from May 1981-Oct 1984. So they all came through his secretary.
                The Cali-in-the-sea was in `82/3 and the AIDS pronouncements came in early 1984 as I remember.

                Yes, he seemed to contradict himself.
                There again, I would say that as he first said Nostradamus was all nonsense (“I`m just using it as a device”) and later said. “Nostradamus was bang on `cos he said I was a major Boss”, it`s not really a contradiction because he`s already given the game away that he will say whatever suits his aim!

                That`s how I took it anyway.

                • swamishanti says:

                  Yes , actually I guessed that was the case. (About the message coming through Sheela).

                  Osho did speak several times about the possibly of an apocalyptic war and the end of humanity as we know it and how he wanted a ‘Noah’s Ark of Consciousness’ of meditators who would survive the great change to create the lotus paradise.

                  But, I guess Osho used the millennium predictions of impending doom ( and their have been many predictions) to create a sense of urgency. And later , he said he considered the predictions of Nostradamus to be referring to a global shift in consciousness, not necessarily a literal total destruction of humanity.

                  Actually, I remember a piece from Arjuna John Hogue in Oshonews a while ago , where he wrote about the Millenium book. He was working as a guard outside Lao-Tzu House at the time , and had first wanted to publish this book under the ashram’s own Rebel publishing house, and asked Osho about it one night , but Osho told him no, he should use an outside publisher , that way it would reach more people.

                  But , he remembers,although Osho showed him appreciate of the book , he also said to him, remember,’ Nostradamus was a crazy man though’.

                  But for Haidakan Babbaji , up in the Himalayas , a message of destruction and change was a constant theme in his talks.

                  To me it was most likely part of his device to encourage his disciples to meditate intensely . Tantric yogi’s meditate in the cremation ground, and the sutra from the VBT I mentioned earlier ‘meditate on the make-believe world burning to ashes’.After all, Haidakan Babbaji was said to be an incarnation of Shiva the destroyer , so it was only natural that he would speak of destruction.

                  for example :
                  ‘Be strong in the time of great revolution which is coming. No one can stop the fire coming to the world now. The bells of great destruction are already ringing. The war will be such that people sleeping will die immediately. There will be atomic war. People will die immediately in their houses from gas and atomic and nuclear radiations.

                  The energy of Om Namaha Shivaya shall destroy all contradictory energies of hydrogen and atom bombs and will protect you. 

                  A person might argue that when destruction is going to take place, why should I work? Why should I do any karma? But that is not right. One should work to his last breath.(…)’.

                  ‘Up to this time, many incarnations of the Lord have brought war and violence to bring peace to the world. He is now preparing your hearts for the coming revolution, so you can face it peacefully.

                  Now you see a sweet form of God, but in the future you will see a fierce form of God. Peace will come only after a Kranti (destruction/revolution). Babaji says a Kranti will come very soon and in the twinkling of an eye will spread over the world. This is why Babaji cautions us again and again to be alert.

                  Babaji again cautions us to be alert. A great revolution is coming. It is not of the ordinary type. Between heaven and earth this type of revolution has never been seen before. It will be astonishing and terrible. The destruction will be such that people will die as they work, sleep or stand. People will be killed by gas; buildings will remain but the danger is to humanity. Babaji reminds us to be prepared.

                  Those who repeat Om Namaha Shivaya, who are righteous, and those who are God-loving, will be protected.

                  Times will change, so you must resolve in your hearts to be industrious and courageous. Those who are strong like iron are fit to flourish. To become strong does not mean to become harsh and heartless. To become strong means to grow beyond pleasure and pain: beyond heat and cold.

                  (…) In this Yuga, the destruction will come within the flicker of an eye. This destruction will be such that those sleeping will be left sleeping, those standing will be left standing. The whole world will be transformed like this. In this destruction everything will finish; nothing will remain the same. You should therefore leave your attachment to the world. Only repetition of God’s name will be useful for you; otherwise it is hopeless. (…) 

                  (…) in America people will get a form of disease which they will be unable to stop and which will cause death. Some will vomit themselves to death, still others will be bleed to death from cuts which will not stop bleeding. There is no sure prevention and there will be no cure. He recommends fasting as the best means of avoidance.

                  A change in the world is coming soon. Change is nothing new; it is the law of nature. (…) We must face the coming destruction with courage. I want you to be very alert and careful. Be ready to face the world.

                  (…) This revolution will set fire to the whole world. Only those will live who have adventure in their hearts, those who are wed to truth. You should all go forward with courage and adventure.

                  (…) A great revolution is coming. Wherever you live, be prepared to face the Revolution. (…) Only that person can take part who is prepared to face death, who is prepared to die at any moment. Only the man who is daring and has courage, who is prepared to die for the sake of righteousness, is fit to face the Revolution. The whole universe will be involved in this Mahakranti (Great Revolution). It is not limited to India.”

                  (…) the Revolution will occur simultaneously everywhere in the world. Countries which believe that they can save themselves through the newly invented weapons can forget this thought, for they will not be able to do so. (…) Superpowers like Russia and America will not be able to face the fire even with their new weapons. Nothing that they have invented will be of any use. Everything can be destroyed. (…)
                   
                  All of you must bring alertness into your lives.

                  I think the great revolution is very near. Be prepared for it, leaving behind the fear of death and the hope of life. I think it is necessary now that there is a great revolution because without such a revolution there can be no peace. In all epochs it has been like that – only after bloodshed peace was obtained. (…) .

                  A great Revolution shall come to the world. Destruction is a most necessary aspect of creation. At all times, peace was established only after revolution. For many Yugas, the earth has been crying out for blood. The whole earth has to be bathed in blood at least once. This desire of the earth will be fulfilled. The Revolution will come quickly, in seconds, and spread everywhere. (…) No power in the world can stop the Revolution coming now. ”

                  Etc, etc ….

                  I believe that Babbaji later said at some point that atomic war at that time had been prevented by his people’s efforts in meditation and growing consciousness around the world

                  Whether he was just saying that to encourage people to meditate , or whether an apocalypse really had been averted, we shall never know .
                  However- there are many people who still believe that some of what he predicted of the ‘Great Revolution’ and a time of earthquakes, floods, accidents, collisions and wars, and a large amount of the worlds population being wiped out , is still to come.

                  Somewhere in the past I have found a long list of his talks on these subjects.

                  Meanwhile the quotes above were taken from this website:

                  http://babajigr.blogspot.com/2016/11/babajis-predictions-regarding-great.html

                • swamishanti says:

                  Yeah. But also, he had already endorsed Nostradamus before and some of his apocalyptic predictions, that’s why the journalist at the Ranch asked him about it, expecting him to say something positive on Nostradamus.

                  But Osho decided to trash him instead.

                  It’s a bit like when Osho got some letters sent in from several Roman Catholic theologians and other Christian priests highly praising him and his talks on Jesus in 1983, which were given to the US government in protest when they denied him his application to stay there on the grounds of being a religous teacher, but then later, in 1989, when a group of 21 Jesuit preists visited the Osho commune back in Poona, when Osho was giving talks on mostly Zen, Osho decided to use the opportunity to give them a hit and delivered the series ‘Christianity – the Deadliest Poison and Zen: the Antidote to all Poisons’. Which is actually quite a clever argument that he gives in that book, which I read online as a free PDF recently. (Credit goes to Oshorajneesh.com).

              • frank says:

                If Osho did have an opinion about Nostradamus, it was probably irrelevant because according to him, as a `Master`, all info is just data to be utilised for the hitting/stroking of egos for various purposes, allegedly with the final aim of the receiver`s enlightenment.

                For myself, on the other hand, a regular guy with an ego and a mind, I do have an opinion which is:
                The idea,judging from the evidence presented, that Nostradamus actually predicted events that came to pass centuries later, is completely untenable, thereby begging the question of why anyone would actually believe such nonsense.

                • satchit says:

                  Frankie, you have a dry mind.

                  People believe in Nostradamus and these kind of things because they believe in magic.

                  Life is not only 2+2=4, but also the unpredictable.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Frank, I am shocked to the very core of my being to hear that you have an ego and a mind, and also an opinion. I thought you had gone beyond all that, like Satchit.

                • frank says:

                  Lokesh,
                  Yes, tragically and predictably, I am still wallowing in a cesspit of unconsciousness, ego and spiritual ignorance, unable to work out what comes after 2+2, with my mind dry as a nun`s fanny at an AA meeting.

                  Satchit,
                  You say it is magic.
                  But it`s pretty low-grade magic.
                  Most people, myself included, love to be fooled by good magic.
                  John Rogue/Nostra-dumb-ass doesn`t do it for me.
                  “Sooner or later, you will see great changes. etc. etc.”
                  zzzz
                  Sounds like a race to the bottom of the brain stem to me.

                  I suppose you could say that prophecy is one of the greatest magic tricks, like the famous Indian Rope Trick in that the actual magic was in the fact that the magicians have managed to convince people that it actually existed and got everyone to know about it and many to look for it yet it always remained elusive. Just odd stories, rumours and apocryphal tales here and there but no cigar.

                  Maybe enlightenement is the same kind of magic trick knocked up by some very advanced jadoo-wallahs?

                • satchit says:

                  Frankie,

                  God is compassionate.

                  To some people he gives low-grade magic, to others he gives high-grade magic.

                  Distinctions exist only in the mind, not in no-mind.

                • frank says:

                  Satchit,
                  What type of magic do you prefer when you are not in a state of no-mind?

                • satchit says:

                  My mind prefers qualified magic.

                  But fact is also if guys like Nostradamus would not exist, one had to invent them.

                  We don’t live in a perfect world!

                  Or if you want to see it from a distance:
                  the world is perfect as it is.

                • frank says:

                  Satchit, you say:
                  “We don’t live in a perfect world!
                  Or if you want to see it from a distance:
                  The world is perfect as it is.”

                  What is the `distance` and how does it change the world from being imperfect to perfect?

                • satchit says:

                  The world remains the same, but perspectives can change.

                  You can have a judging or a watching perspective.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I stumbled across this version of this recording today of a song, ‘The Burning Times’, recently been put up on YouTube, which is themed around the burning and killing of women branded as witches in Europe, who were accused of practising magic ,and condemned as ‘heretics’ , some for not believing in the Church doctrine and there were also some accusations of wild parties with nude dancing and orgies amongst the Pagans. This version of the song is actually being sung by an old friend of mine, Tipi Jean, who spends a lot of time living in nature.

                  “There were those who came to power…through domination…and they were bonded by their worship of a dead man on a cross…
                  They sought control of the common people – by demanding allegiance to the Church of Rome…and the Pope declared the Inquisition…it was a war against the women, whose powers that they feared…in the Holocaust against the nature people…9 million women died….”

                  https://youtu.be/yQKuSU0f8B4

                • frank says:

                  Satchit,
                  Like you, I`m mostly in the watching space. I only move into the judging space when I need to change channels, put the football on, decide which type of beer to drink and choose between salted or dry roasted peanuts (usually I find a bit of choiceless awareness works for the latter).

                  Occasionally, of course, Existence decides that it`s time to slag off Nostradamus or some other f…ing idiot so I have to just let go and do it although there isn`t really a doer at all.
                  Namaste.

  17. Lokesh says:

    Yeah, Osho was better at spin than Trump. The whole ‘one day he says this and the next the opposite’ was covered by him saying that life is contradictory and being in tune with life it was only natural that he would constantly contradict himself. Sounds like hokum to me. Did not his Holiness the Beedie Wallah say that the truth contains no contradictions? How does that fit into the widescreen picture with dolby surround?

    Once upon a time, Osho’s words meant a lot to me, and I daresay helped me. I have not read an Osho book in twenty years. On reflection it was not really about what Osho was saying, but rather the energy he generated. He said lots of great things and also talked nonsense.

    To take it all as gospel requires a strong element of stupidity. I still know people who listen to an Osho discourse every day. What to say? Words are more important for some people than they are for others. That whole thing about Osho saying he was surprised that he fulfilled all of Nostradumus’s prediction sounds like typical Osho bullshit. Who knows, Osho might have gotten the idea for the birds symbol after reading Nostradamus. People are that gullible.

    • swamishanti says:

      Lokesh, you don’t like prophecies much. You say you have not read an Osho book for twenty years but I think I remember that you said you read ‘A Cup Of Tea’ a few years back.

      Better you listen to the Buddha of the Future psytrance:

      https://youtu.be/Ll5nU2s3jA0

      • Lokesh says:

        Never heard of a book titled ‘A Cup Of Tea’, let alone read it. Last book of Osho I read was ‘Glimpses of A Golden Childhood’, one of my favourites. I suspect a lot of the book’s content is grossly exaggerated, but for me it is a good read. Currently reading ‘The Psychological Commentaries’ by Maurice Nichol. Read it many times…a storehouse of practical wisdom, which I am certain Osho was very well acquainted with.

        • swamishanti says:

          I have a very good memory and I’m pretty sure I remember you mentioning ‘A Cup Of Tea’ a few years back. Nevertheless, you read another Osho book, ‘Kyozan, A True Man of Zen’, back in 2014. It was sitting on your coffee table.
          Remember?
          http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/4442

          • Lokesh says:

            Shanti, you got me there, no denying it. I have no recollection whatsoever of reading ‘Kyozan, A True Man of Zen’. I do not often give books by Osho away, but that book is not in my library. Yeah, another mystery to be lived.

            I often forget things…intentionally. But I never forget that which is important to me, for instance music. I just need to hear a single chord and I recognize the tune immediately. Talking of chords, here is the lost one. I am sure you will agree this is a beautiful and timeless piece of music:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax6ztO4WCa0

            • swamishanti says:

              Why not? I listened to this for a bit a little last night. Amongst CSNY and others.

              https://youtu.be/2rP3WRTdY2I

              • swamishanti says:

                Although Babbaji of Haidakan propagated the Om Namah Shivay mantra,
                the Mrityunjaya mantra, also known as the ‘death conquering mantra’ , is much older as I understand it . As old as the Gayatri mantra, (which some claim to be the oldest mantra) , actually they both appear in the verses of the Rig Veda, the oldest Hindu scripture- which was originally sung and chanted by Brahmins long before being written down.

                And to fit in with this topic, here is a version of it chanted by 21 Brahmins , which is being used by some Indians to to help protect from Covid 19 and spread protective , positive vibrations: https://youtu.be/M7bqfSdB2tU

                • frank says:

                  I don`t know why, but the news that religious people are chanting mantras to keep Covid at bay reminds me of this tale:

                  Two Irish junkies were shooting up together and sharing a needle in some squalid squat somewhere in London in the 1980s.
                  “So, aren`t ye a little scared about catchin` AIDS, tho`?” asked Paddy.
                  Mick replied:
                  “Oh no, I`m takin` precautions, I`m wearin` a condom.”

                • swamishanti says:

                  That sounds like typical Irishmen. And someone who had spent some time living and travelling in Ireland told me once that the Irish really are a bit like that, not just in the jokes.

                  But, my own experience of listening to the Mrityunjaya mantra repetitively for some time wad it is a fucking powerful one that kind of blasts you off your head and makes you very high: as you might imagine Shiva’s vibrations to be. And it was a different version to the one I posted here, one which I have on cd but cannot find on YouTube.

                  Whereas when I listened to the Gayathri mantra for a while, which is the original Krishna mantra, I still found it to be powerful but much less intense, with more of an uplifting feel to it.

                  I have appreciated sometimes just spontaneously listening to these mantras in various situations in India, where they are often rigged up to a speaker and playing in the background – in just mundane environments, such as a bank, for example.

                  I remember feeling stressed about something one time, then walking into a bank and sitting down on a bench and waiting and there was this mantra just playing in the background, and after a while I was feeling very relaxed and chilled out.

                  I had no idea it was the Gayatri mantra at the time.

                • frank says:

                  Shanti,
                  That certainly beats being stuck in a shopping mall in December with “I wish it could be Christmas every day” by Slade banging out on the PA.

                • swamishanti says:

                  I was staying in an Indian hotel near the sea beach. In fact my room was very close to the sea and I had been living in that room for several weeks.

                  One day the manager told me that the room had been booked in advance for the next weekend, so I moved into another room when the new guests arrived.

                  The new guests were actually a group of Indian policemen who arrived in a Land Rover and originated from Rajasthan.

                  I was in the room next door to them and they were very friendly and we discussed this and that.

                  Whereas I had been sleeping myself in the double bed in that room which they now occupied, in the true Indian fashion, they slept around four of them all in the same bed. (Or perhaps a couple of them on the floor, I don’t know).

                  They explained to me that they were like a special unit who drove around according to their work, and stayed in various areas across the country. The day before they left they invited me into their room and showed me their sub-machine guns and a shotgun that they had stashed in a cupboard.

                  That night, they stayed up late and drank vodka on the verandah.

                  The next morning, before they left, I was woken up around 6am by the sounds of the mantra that they were playing on their tape deck as they were showering and happily singing out the mantra together…”Aum Tryambakam yajaamahe, sugandhim pushtivardhanam
                  Urvaarukamiva bandhanaan-mrityormuksheeya maamritaat.” It was a jolly version of the Mrityunjaya mantra sung by Suresh Wadkar..:

                  https://youtu.be/-SeUDIQdyOw

                  After they had left I moved back into the room.

                • frank says:

                  Shanti,
                  And the moral of the story is…that you can be a heavily tooled-up, hard-drinking psycho and still enjoy singing Hindu mantras!

                  Do Miten and Premal know this?

                • swamishanti says:

                  Actually, no, I’ve never told them that story of the Police squad.

                  I remember being in a cloth shop in the centre of a busy bustling Indian bazaar, which was being run by Sikhs.

                  They had a box near the counter, encircled with a display of flashing coloured lights. In the box was an image of a line of several Sikh masters, and there was a little speaker rigged up to it, which was constantly playing repetitions of a particular Sikh mantra, which was creating a very soothing vibration in the shop that I also particularly appreciated.

                  But I have no idea which mantra that was. Shantam would probably know.

                • frank says:

                  That would have been the Chuddie Mantra.

                  Btw,
                  Here`s an important piece of news from last year that we missed.
                  I think it`s fair to say that not only has Sannyas News made a unique contribution to the enlightenment of humanity and a new Yuga of superconsciousness, but we`ve done our bit for anglophone culture too…
                  https://www.theweek.in/leisure/society/2019/03/26/chuddies-gets-initiated-into-oxford-english-dictionary.html

    • satchit says:

      Osho said: “My words are fingers pointing to the moon.
      Don’t bite into my fingers!”

      So all his talking about Nostradamus, predicting the future or talking about past lives is not relevant.
      At the most it is good for entertainment, not more.

      It is like if you want to sing a song, you have to make some sounds. Being silent will not help.

    • Klaus says:

      Words words words.
      “Words are more important for some people than they are for others.”

      I would like to second that:
      Possibly Osho was saying quite a few things with the intent
      “to keep us glued to the screen”,
      “to keep us from walking away”,
      “to keep us from giving up the whole quest”
      “to keep us from interrupting the process and having to re-start somewhere else”
      etc.

      Silence in the modern world needs a lot of helpers. It seems.

  18. frank says:

    Has anyone read this?
    Any good?

  19. swamishanti says:

    Myself, I had envisioned the situation at the Resort as being that the all the punters and Westerners of the IC were ordered to leave and go back to their home countries back in the spring.

    Then only Ma Amrit Sadhana and a couple of other Indians in the IC were allowed to stay and live on there. I visualised them wandering in the luxurious surroundings, making use of the pool, all the facilities etc., and enjoying the peace and solitude.

  20. kavita says:

    MOD, I had written A & J, you made it AJ (Amrito & Jayesh).

    MOD:
    Yes, it came through as “A & amp; J”, and deleting “& amp;” led to “AJ”. Sorry!

  21. frank says:

    It`s old news, isn`t it?
    Osho International moved its HQ to Hangover Square/Palmeira Ave. a few years ago. It was reported here on SN.
    There was also an interesting piece in the Evening Standard at around the same time, I wonder if anyone remembers it?:

    “In what appears to be an attack in Central London by IS (Indian Sannyas), dangerous religious factions have once again thrown possibilities for world peace into turmoil…

    In the newly established London HQ in Hangover Square of OIF (Oligarchs International Freelunch) an attempted bomber by the name of Ali Iqbal Shantam, an unemployed man with severe learning difficulties, and self-styled spokesman for his facebook friends, walked into the reception dressed cunningly, not in an explosive vest, but in explosive underpants.

    Shouting “Osho Akbar Yahoo!”, he pulled the ignition cord on his pants but his bomb failed to go off and his pants fell to the ground.

    Survivors agreed that it could have been worse but it was still a pretty unpleasant sight.

    The OIF management moved swiftly and business consultants are offering trauma counselling and free white socks to the victims at £200 per hour.

    Later, a leading figure of OIF, Dr. Dave O`Raj, aka John George Paul Ringo Meredith Julie Andrews, gave evidence in court, appearing unsteady on his feet, clutching a half-empty Gin bottle as he pulled down his trousers and pointed his shiny white buttocks (which had a 10 rupee aerogram stuck in the crack) at the opposition lawyer and shouting:
    “If you marble-kissers want something to kiss, then wrap your lips round these beauties!”

    The case continues.”

  22. swamishanti says:

    Ah yes, I remember now. Osho International decided to move to London and bought up a couple of flats down by the sea in nearby Hove. (And quite possibly some in London itself looking at the data available and properties listed under the companies linked to some of the managers of the Resort (‘Adve Neural Biometric Holdings Ltd.’)

    Shantam Prem was interested in what was going on.

    http://sannyasnews.org/now/now/files/bpfb/2264_0-79631600-1582800675_2067a312-2d3c-4b1a-b043-9d72ec5b04d6.gif

    But Yogendra going by the name of Devaraj is newer news.

  23. Lokesh says:

    Yes, I recall reading that article in the Standard on my way home to a squat on the Northern Line. I was shocked to the core of my being and must confess I haven’t been the same since.

  24. swamishanti says:

    I know the Palmeira Square area of Hove pretty well and have known a couple of people who lived in the flats.

    More flats, houses in the square could be purchased by OIF could be converted into communes. No need for squats. And the open green area of communal parkland in the centre of the sqaure could be renovated and redesigned just like an Osho Teerth Park.

    In the eighties there were sannyas communes in houses in Brighton and Hove. However, I suspect that this is not part of the plan for Jayesh, Amrito and Devaraj.

    My guess is that the acquisition of property in the area and in London is going to be simply another lucrative real estate deal. Property in Brighton and Hove is the most expensive and sought after location in the UK, as well as properties in certain areas of London.

  25. frank says:

    For all the cynics and doubters, John Hogue points out in his new book Nostradamus predicted the whole thing.

    ‘Nostradamus and Hogue’
    UnReal Estate Agents with a vision.
    “We make dreams your reality.”

    Here`s the orginal quatrains in medieval Latin:

    “Discipulus de magister et hominem novae veni de Punus
    Vidi et regardus per perfectus locus in desirabilius et exclusivus Hovus
    Guidus pricus: tre centum mila livris or proximus offertus
    Quintus minutis ambulatus de experiencius oceanicus.

    Proximus de bonum mysteria scholae et shopus
    Convenientus per linkus transportus et omnibus
    Grandus potentialis, suitabilis per investorius cum ready pecunias
    Vidi recommendati. Non onward chainus.
    Locationus, locationus, locationus.”

  26. frank says:

    Dear Sannyasnews,
    Why is it that OFI (Osho Fenians International) is run by a bunch of hard drinking Irishmen?
    D`Arcy O`Byrne, Mick O` Byrne, Dave O`Raj, what`s going on?

    Yours sincerely,
    Paddy Mullarkey, Doolally.

  27. swamishanti says:

    Actually Swami Anand Jayesh has decided to cut his roots to his old Irish traveller heritage and changed his name. And dropped the ‘O’ – he is no longer legally Michael O’Byrne but now just Michael Byrne.

  28. satyadeva says:

    Re NEW ARTICLES

    Following Anubodh’s suggestion of a year or two ago, we’re proposing that until new iideas for articles emerge, a selection of former topics from the last 12-plus years are revisited to see whether there are more things to say, or whether views have changed (or both).

    Eg we’ve had a quick look at the ‘Articles’ section (at the bottom of the ‘Home’ page and suggest these three from five years ago might be worth putting up and discussing again (let us know iof you disagree):

    ’Islamophobia and Nostradamus’ (November 7, 2015)
    ’The Fight Between Disciple and Master’ (November 8, 2015)
    ’Sting: If Blood Will Flow’ (November 8, 2015)

    Readers and contributors’ own choices are most welcome, as, of course, are completely new articles or ideas for new articles.

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