Dance And Be Forever Young?

Why do many sannyasins look younger than their age might usually tend to indicate? Refusal to ‘grow up’, avoiding taking responsibility in the so-called ‘grown-up, problematic world, the ‘puer eternus’ (‘eternal child’) syndrome?

Medical research suggests  this might be the reason…

Dancing Can Reverse The Signs Of Aging In The Brain

by Frontiers

brain

As we grow older we suffer a decline in mental and physical fitness, which can be made worse by conditions like Alzheimer’s disease. A new study, published in the open-access journal Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, shows that older people who routinely partake in physical exercise can reverse the signs of aging in the brain, and dancing has the most profound effect.

“Exercise has the beneficial effect of slowing down or even counteracting age-related decline in mental and physical capacity,” says Dr Kathrin Rehfeld, lead author of the study, based at the German center for Neurodegenerative Diseases, Magdeburg, Germany. “In this study, we show that two different types of physical exercise (dancing and endurance training) both increase the area of the brain that declines with age. In comparison, it was only dancing that led to noticeable behavioral changes in terms of improved balance.”

Elderly volunteers, with an average age of 68, were recruited to the study and assigned either an eighteen-month weekly course of learning dance routines, or endurance and flexibility training. Both groups showed an increase in the hippocampus region of the brain. This is important because this area can be prone to age-related decline and is affected by diseases like Alzheimer’s. It also plays a key role in memory and learning, as well as keeping one’s balance.

While previous research has shown that physical exercise can combat age-related brain decline, it is not known if one type of exercise can be better than another. To assess this, the exercise routines given to the volunteers differed. The traditional fitness training program conducted mainly repetitive exercises, such as cycling or Nordic walking, but the dance group were challenged with something new each week.

Dr Rehfeld explains, “We tried to provide our seniors in the dance group with constantly changing dance routines of different genres (Jazz, Square, Latin-American and Line Dance). Steps, arm-patterns, formations, speed and rhythms were changed every second week to keep them in a constant learning process. The most challenging aspect for them was to recall the routines under the pressure of time and without any cues from the instructor.”

These extra challenges are thought to account for the noticeable difference in balance displayed by those participants in dancing group. Dr Rehfeld and her colleagues are building on this research to trial new fitness programs that have the potential of maximizing anti-aging effects on the brain.

“Right now, we are evaluating a new system called “Jymmin” (jamming and gymnastic). This is a sensor-based system which generates sounds (melodies, rhythm) based on physical activity. We know that dementia patients react strongly when listening to music. We want to combine the promising aspects of physical activity and active music making in a feasibility study with dementia patients.”

Dr Rehfeld concludes with advice that could get us up out of our seats and dancing to our favorite beat.

“I believe that everybody would like to live an independent and healthy life, for as long as possible. Physical activity is one of the lifestyle factors that can contribute to this, counteracting several risk factors and slowing down age-related decline. I think dancing is a powerful tool to set new challenges for body and mind, especially in older age.”

This study falls into a broader collection of research investigating the cognitive and neural effects of physical and cognitive activity across the lifespan.

Credit: CCO Public Domain

Article published by medicalxpress.com

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-reverse-aging-brain.html?fbclid=IwAR0jl15IrSewEfp8gu3IG_FXcsSzLT8oJjUjwtCzOGKQX4kgo4PlN46gAAA

 

This entry was posted in News. Bookmark the permalink.

147 Responses to Dance And Be Forever Young?

  1. This time I will comment on the thesis implicit in the title, I will read the rest later.

    For me, “the way to do is being”. I know many stressful dancers, who look older because they focus on doing.

    Dance as a celebration of being is the key, imho.

  2. frank says:

    The trouble with all these medical-based `such and such is good for you` is that they miss the point that the maximum benefit is reached by not bothering about the benefit at all – but just because you love it. Alan Watts beautifully pointed out that you don`t dance to get to a particular place on the dance floor and you don`t sing a song just to get to the finale.

    Play is the key. And pure play is purposeless.

    When even play is pressed into functional service, you are liable to miss the point altogether, like joggers, yogis, dancers or whoever push themselves in the name of health and fitness and end up endlessly trying to beat themselves or even doing themselves in!!

    • satyadeva says:

      I’m sure you’re right, Frank. I recall Osho (as Bhagwan) advising that if you want to play football, fine, but make sure you simply enjoy it, the movement, the energy (as it were), and make the ‘play’ more important than the result.

      Thing is, of course, this flies in the face of worldly values which are all about competition and winning, ie ‘goal-driven’ – until we’re shocked by something, eg the premature death of someone famous, some ‘hero’, and suddenly even the seriously ultra-competitive start coming out with stuff like “This gives you a sense of perspective, makes you realise what’s important” – for a while, until their circus takes over again.

      • frank says:

        Yoga is like that these days.
        Talk to chiropractors and osteopaths and they will tell you that they get loads of “yoga injuries” these days!

    • satchit says:

      “Play is the key”. If you ask me, I say play is the antithesis.

      What is the synthesis?

  3. Kavita says:

    SD, as for me, responsibilities are mainly first towards oneself.

    I am sure physical activity helps to keep physical fitness & mental activity is also needed for mental fitness.

    Somehow in my teenage years I have been very active playing basketball ,was very active during student & later working days until I came to Poona. Since then, inertia set in & has not left. I do the needed physical activities & have no regrets as whatever is needed is mostly achieved.

    Btw, I wish I looked more matured!

    As for physical dancing, that dancing has nearly evaporated!

  4. frank says:

    Btw,

    Forever Young
    (with apologies to Bob Zimmerframe)

    May you keep hold of your marbles
    May all your dreams come true
    May your incontinence pants remain firm
    when the winds of change blow around you.
    May your stairlift reach up to the stars
    and as you clank on every rung
    May you stay
    Forever young….

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Feels so good, Frank, that you apologized beforehand for using the ´Forever Young’ (at Heart!) of the Nobel Prize Winner (of Literature), making your own version out of it…leaving out (not only the lyrics of the second stanza of his song; and that second stanza is referring to growing up issues of a human Life.

      Composing and writing the lyrics of this song (1974!) as many, many others showing up as a pretty mature human, worth His salt, in springtime, summertime and autumn of His life, sharing a ´dance which cannot be acknowledged by a technical brain-scan, nor flexible flesh-and-bones measures.

      He was and is truly worth His salt as a wordsmith and did stick to Truth, I´d say, inviting re more understanding, living His way the Path of Life.

      Walking it. Trials and errors included.

      Encouraging many to do the same, I´d suggest.

      Grateful,

      Madhu

      • frank says:

        That Zimmerframe guy and his band aren`t bad

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7KzB16Ik&list=RDi8z7KzB16Ik&start_radio=1

        MOD:
        Great choice, Frank – but please keep it for the Caravanserai.

        • Lokesh says:

          Cream never surpassed the original Crossroads live, recorded in Filmore. That is for me one of the greatest pieces of music ever. Definitely in my top five.

          Saw Cream in Scotland back in 1968. There were less than 400 people in attendance and I was a young hippy.

          MOD:
          Please keep this at the Caravanserai, Lokesh (from a fellow fan).

          • samarpan says:

            Yes, the Cream album is great. Osho also spoke of crossroads in Poona 2. When you come to a crossroads, if your heart is open guidance is available.

            “Lalita, the spiritual path has many crossroads. On each crossroad, one feels as if one has arrived. In a certain way it is true, too. It is a certain blessing which was never known before, a peace that is absolutely new, a silence undreamt of, and a love, the fragrance of which one has desired, longed for for lives and has never found. Naturally one feels the home has come.

            This is one of the most difficult tasks for the master – to push you on, to say to you, “This is only the beginning; there is much more waiting for you.” And although it is inconceivable to you that there can be anything more than this, the trust, the love, the devotion towards the master helps you to move.”

            Osho, ‘Beyond Enlightenment’, chapter 27

            • frank says:

              The crossroads has always been a place of magic and mystery – Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil at the crossroads to be able to play guitar was probably a relic of African religious beliefs.

              Folklore is found the world over about crossroads as a site for magical ritual and also for a placement of altars – sacred places where the gods have brought people and ideas together to satisfy destiny.

              In the UK, suicides and executed murderers were buried at crossroads right up to the Victorian era.

              So it’s also the spooky place “beyond the pale” which expression also means beyond the fence at the town limits`, where the crazies, dogs and wild animals roam…a bit like SN, so I guess a few baboons lurking too…

              A place of opportunity or perdition, depending on your view.

              I believe I`m sinking down….

              • Tan says:

                Talking about African religious beliefs, it’s well known, now, that crossroads were very important for the slaves brought from Africa.

                They would make altars at the crossroads with candles, food, alcohol, etc…very much surrounded with tales of gods and devils, very much scaring, people wouldn’t go near those altars.

                All this mystery was to hide the fact that all this was made to help the fugitive slaves with food, alcohol and at the crossroads it was easier to run from the beasts that were after them.

                Cheers!

      • swamishanti says:

        I saw Dylan play once in Hammersmith Odeon.

        Thousands of people sat in their seats which rose up from the stage at the bottom.

        I was sitting high up with my friend looking down at Dylan and his band. There was a pindrop silence from the crowd whilst he was singing, everyone clapped after he finished a piece. I remember telling my friend it would fun to shout out “hello Bob!” in the pindrop silence. But resisted the urge.

  5. satchit says:

    Last time when I was in a sannyas disco, it felt like at a party in an old people’s home. Nobody younger than 40.

    • Lokesh says:

      Satchit, that is because you are young.

      There is a very good docu out just now called ‘Ibiza the Silent Movie’. It covers many aspects of the island. One thing it shows that I find relevant is how in the good old days when you went to a party it had different generations mixed up with each other. It did not matter if you were 15 or 70, everybody was welcome on the dance floor. Times changed on Ibiza and there is a lot of crap going on about VIPs etc., which has messed up what was once a very special social scene.

      I know what Satchit means, though. I have watched vids of sannyasin scenes with a bunch of ancients wafting around doing that dance they do and I must be honest and say there is a certain cringe factor in it.

      Then again, that is all just a mind trip. Dancing on a good scene only really lifts off when you get in a groove and don’t give a fuck what other people are doing, because the dancer and the dance have merged.

      • satchit says:

        The cringe factor for me was also that it felt a bit like at a party of dancing sheep. Not much “wild wild” in it.

        You can even make dancing part of conditioning.

      • frank says:

        Lokesh,
        I watched that movie. Osho makes an interesting cameo appearance, and related to dancing, too!
        Same old story about what starts out as a blast ends up as a status/money thing.

        Tbh, as I get older dancing involves too much gravity on the old joints! Swimming is defo the one!

  6. Levina says:

    I used to love wildly dancing, but since 20 years because of fybromyalgia this hasn’t been happening. When the body feels good I occasionally do whirling or dancing, using my arms a lot; the energy is still the same in the body, but at the outside there is less movement.

    Looking more to different ways of ‘dancing’ with Life, more in the area of accepting what is, and even dancing ‘resistance’ accompanied by singing can be fun!

  7. Tan says:

    Thanks, Satyadeva, very interesting thread!

    Maybe dance can reverse the signs of aging in the brain because it’s like meditation?

    Of course, physical exercises can help to reverse signs of aging in the brain, it’s proved by science. But maybe when one dances, one is totally in the moment?

    And when Dr Rehfeld explains: “We tried…changing dance routines….” it’s like stopping repetition, a kind of freshness in the brain?

    Maybe, meditation is the key for a healthy brain/mind?

    Cheers!

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      Yes, Tan,

      I´d second your conclusion of your last line yesterday at 10:54 am, which reminded me in particular of happening to have come across Matthieu Ricard, a Buddhist monk, who became well known meanwhile. He has His own website, if you or anbody here becomes interested.

      Matthieu Ricard (French native) had been a well known scientist (as a molecular biologist) and dropped His career to become a Buddhist monk and friend of the Dalai Lama.

      His brain scan features, while meditating and/or playing scientifically with the so-called non-meditative states of “normal” turbulence of brain (mind) activities became well known and the subject and topic of many talks.

      The latter has been the moment I came across His life story – and right in time – soothing some of my anxieties (that we all may end up as ‘gadgets’ in the West for scientific ambitions and experimental purposes..).

      Every now and then I listen to a specific podcast where Matthieu Ricard is in exchange with a Swiss beautiful Lady, talking about His transformation from a scientist’s life to a Buddhist monk.

      If you are interested you´ll probably find lots of information in your mother tongue on the Net.

      Cheers,

      Madhu

    • satchit says:

      I would say if you stay with the flow you are connected with the source. You look young because the source is forever young. Or call it God or Tao or whatever.

      In my opinion, the result of the study is primarily because of the constant changes in the dancing genres.
      This challenges the hippocampus. If one would dance for 18 months in the same dancing style there would be no effect.

      So it means: don’t repeat your daily routine, otherwise you become old!

      • satyadeva says:

        Satchit, could you explain what you mean exactly by “stay with the flow”, if possible In practical terms that anyone, including ‘non-spiritual’ people, can understand?

        • satchit says:

          You are funny, SD.
          You want me to do Sysiphus work?

          Ok, I try. You can do things through your mind, the same way you have done it yesterday.

          Or you can trust a deeper energy, which says, do it now differently, trust your inner voice.

          • satyadeva says:

            I’ve already understood that from your previous post, Satchit, and ok, it’s a fair point.

            But perhaps you haven’t grasped my question, which is how does staying “with the flow” (“the source…God or Tao or whatever”) actually manifest in one’s everyday life, in difficult (but normal) circumstances faced by nearly everyone at some time, eg (in no particular order of importance) illness, relationship problems and break-up, work problems, traffic jams, sleeplessness, difficulties bringing up children, financial difficulties, awkward neighbours, death of friends and family, unemployment, stupid, ignorant people (as judged by oneself) etc. etc.

            That should keep you busy for a while.

            And…

            May The Flow go with you as you plough through all of that!

            • satchit says:

              Certainly it’s not all “flow”, SD.

              We have to deal with the problems in life. There are always crossroads where you have to choose if you want to go right or left.

              • satyadeva says:

                Thanks, Satchit, I never realised that before.

                So where does “the source…God or Tao or whatever” come into play (or is it more like work?) in these situations?

                • satchit says:

                  Play? I mentioned it already, SD, it’s Sisyphus’s Work to explain you the Truth. And sometimes you can really be stubborn.

                  It depends on your perspective: If you say it’s God, then God brings you to the crossroads and God makes the decision.

                  If you say there is no God, then it’s all YOU.

                  Some fools even say: “I Am God!”

                  Cheers!

                • satyadeva says:

                  Oh, I see.

                  Still, you’ve managed to make it all seem rather simple, despite calling it “Sisyphus’s Work”. Perhaps you’ve been working away at this through the night, desperate for a way to communicate the Truth?

                  So, have I got this right, now? “God…source, Tao or whatever” is just a thought, a belief even, that one can take or leave, as it were?

                • satchit says:

                  Yes, Truth is simple.
                  No, Source is not a thought.

                  Find out for yourself!

                • satyadeva says:

                  But Satchit, you seem to have said two contrary things:
                  You say, “Source is not a thought”, but earlier you declared “it depends on your perspective: If you say it’s God, then God brings you to the crossroads and God makes the decision.”

                  Isn’t such a “perspective” a matter of thought, belief?

                  Please clarify, otherwise I won’t know what I’m looking for or where to find it.

                  Also, how can Truth be “simple” and yet “Sisyphus’s Work” to communicate?

                  Are you sure you know what you’re talking about here? I wouldn’t want to be led astray, as I’m sure you appreciate.

                • satchit says:

                  No, SD, I am finished with giving you hints!

                  You become more confused because of my hints than before and this is not a good sign.

                  What can I do if Truth is contradictory?

                • satyadeva says:

                  Ah yes, Satchit, that is all so very true – and, at the same time, absolute nonsense, perhaps?!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Whenever I hear some sannyasin saying that the truth is contradictory it always makes me think that is someone parroting Osho’s words. Going by Satchit’s comments on SN I sincerely doubt he knows anything much about truth and everything about being smug in his bubble.

                  Besides, many wise men and women would disagree that the truth is contradictory. Which means that if you are ernest about it you really do have to find out for yourself.

                • satchit says:

                  It’s good that you doubt, Loco.

                  But it’s only me who can know if it is borrowed wisdom or not!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Satchit, you obviously have not read a book by Alan Watts titled, ‘The Wisdom of Insecurit’. The title says it all.

                  You are far more transparent to others than you believe yourself to be. You come across as complacent, as if you have life all figured out. Life being the greatest of teachers will one day show you the error of your ways, something we all have to learn sooner or later. Good luck with that.

                • satchit says:

                  “Complacent”?

                  Normally it is your job to be complacent, is it not, Lokesh?

                  Hi Arpana, where are you?

                  Fact is: You don’t know much about me – I don’t know much about you.

                • frank says:

                  I guess Sannyas, like anything else, had good sides and bad sides.

                  Under good would certainly be the whole dancing thing, as several here have testified.

                  On the minus side, the dominant role model of becoming enlightened master/mistress or at least a high-flying therapist was very limiting.

                  It cranked out a pestiferous plague of DIY humanistic therapists/have-go-advaitists and tinpot gurus banging on about the `mind` etc. like a clutter of turkeys demanding that you respect Christmas!

                  I suppose it`s hard to give up years of practice/brainwashing/cod-philosophising in vain hope of ‘making it’.
                  What to do? Can always keep trotting out “it is good to doubt”, “Truth is contradictory” etc. etc. and try and convince people, including yourself, that you`re more interesting than you are and not just another old fart talking bollocks.

                  Keep digging that hole!

                • Tan says:

                  You are so right, Frank boy!
                  The truth is we were conned by Osho.
                  After so many years, finally, I have realised that he was talking bollocks…Very hard, indeed, to realise how gullible we were, not to say stupid.

                  Still, I don’t blame Osho, he was having his fun.

                  Anyway, we have to persist, maybe we will find that we were looking for….

                  Cheers!

                • Lokesh says:

                  Yes, Frank, I agree.

                  Plenty of spiritual bullshit going down on Ibiza. There exists a certain denial that we are all really ordinary…with our ups and downs, ins and outs etc.

                  I really can’t be bothered with this spiritual oneupmanship number. During the course of our life, if we do not wake up to who and what we are, life gets around to applying her age-old tools of sickness, old age and dying to show us what is what.

                  In the meantime, if you are feeling all right, bow your head in gratitude. Maybe even have a wee dance. You know, celebrate your existence and all that.

                • frank says:

                  Lokesh,

                  Yes, it can be a bit of a shock to wake up and find that you`re one of the unconscious masses after all!

                  In fact, a lot of that so-called seeking can have a deleterious effect on basic intelligence until the characters running after new gurus and teachers all the time become like alkies and junkies. They get more desperate as it goes on.

                  They might start out with fine wines but eventually slip into cheap vodka, alcopops, ethyl alcohol or meths -that`s what jokers like Ecky Thump the talking garden gnome, Boring Katie with her spiritual facelift and Rajneesh Too represent for me.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Reminds me of an old song.
                  ‘If the sun refused to shine….’

        • Lokesh says:

          SD, ‘staying with the flow’ is a plumber’s expression. If the water is not flowing you have a blocked pipe. A plunger or snake are handy tools in such a situation. Especially when dealing with a blocked U bend. It is essential that one checks out the plumbing every day if one wishes to remain in the flow.

          • satyadeva says:

            Thanks, Lokesh.

            That sounds strangely familiar…

            Didn’t you write ‘The Zen Of Plumbing – A Beginner’s Guide to Inner Sanitation’? I read it many years ago, of course, but somehow never really got the hang of it.

            • Lokesh says:

              Yes indeed, I did write ‘The Zen of Plumbing’. I got slagged off by the critics who thought it was a load of shit and many people felt pissed off about it.

              My auntie Agnes flushed her copy down the lavatory and hung her self with the toilet chain, so ashamed was she about what I had tapped into. Which was pretty rich coming from Agnes because she had a mind like a sewer. Sometimes I wonder if my life is going down the drain.

      • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

        Even though, Satchit, that I would subscribe to your very last line (only!) of your contribution (at 8:24 am), the whole of your contribution (s) trigger quite often some allergic reactions of mine the last years about what I call a spongily advaita-(very) small talk.

        Mostly comes up when people just clone-copy ‘spiritual stances’ just to avoid giving any hint about their real_life!

        So – I, me, also would like to hear, like Satyadeva, how that manifests in your everyday life being “with the flow”.

        And how you re and/or your surrounding is profiting from it?

        Sincerely,

        Madhu

        • satchit says:

          Madhu, you also have not been nice to me the last years. Did you not call me a “German asshole” or that I do a “sad performance” here? Or was it somebody else?

          So you want to know how being “with the flow” manifests in my everyday life?

          If the flow wants me to do something then I do it. If the flow says No,then I do it not.

          The flow wants me to tell you today that I live also in Munich. Surprised?

          • satyadeva says:

            I would just like to say, Satchit, on behalf of “The Flow”, that you should make an effort to meet Madhu asap, over a jug or two of beer and a traditional Bavarian dance at the Oktober Bier-Fest.

            After all, if it’s all about getting out of old, stuck patterns, as you say, then you owe it to your hippocampus, surely?

            • satchit says:

              SD, the Oktoberfest is gone here -
              6 million visitors in 2 weeks.
              So we are all sober now.

              My favourite mantra these days is: ‘When time is ripe, things will happen.’

          • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

            Not the least surprising, Satchit, and very nice indeed that you (at last) opened up your ‘visor’*, as that is called.

            It’s just a beginning, maybe much more can show up in the open, can´t it? (Not only old AND odd rubbish gender stuff and similar camoufledged in so-called spiritual costumes).

            Always wondering these years who of the cyberstalkers und fun-terror-stalkers I have to encounter here, setting up an ‘encounter’-anonymous quite before the door of my house, are belonging to the Munich scene of former sannyasins or other gang groups setting up shit to have their fun-loving criminal actions at my cost!

            Satyadeva´s idea – having a Bavarian dance together – will not have my approval, btw; but maybe you can manifest in your flow some friendly OPEN: “Hello, Madhu. it´s me, Satchit, we´re both contributors in the UK/SN Chat”?

            How about such kind of honest and friendly version? Or is it too simple?

            Madhu

            *visor: a movable part of a helmet that can be pulled down to cover the face.

            P.S:
            Yes, I did that, what you claimed that I wrote long ago. And I meant it. And I did not hang on to it. But you, you did. So much for the “flow”….

            • satchit says:

              It’s not a visor, Madhu.
              It’s simply my freedom to say Yes or No.

              For my taste, you are sometimes too paranoid.

              Surely, maybe we can meet one day. But basically it is a virtual group, is it not? And it will not change something because I live in the same town.

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                A psychopath´s response, Satchit (at3:09 pm) – nothing more and nothing less to that.

                You´re in good company with such stuff online – and as far as quality in this UK/SN Chat goes, it´s indeed a pity, all in all.

                But who knows if with the deoarture of our late three editors it may have all declined to a gaming as gaming can be business?

                Who knows…?

                Madhu

                P.S:
                And don´t you dare again to play a ‘diagnostic’ expert re my person here! Playing FOUL, I mean!

            • Levina says:

              Madhu, maybe you could give some more info. about your experiences with cyberstalkers, fun terror stalkers, since my mind goes haywire when it hears these terms. I really haven’t got a clue what it involves, but from reading your reactions it must be very painful!

              • Lokesh says:

                Of course it’s painful. A wooden stake through the heart is no joke.

              • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

                Dear Levina ( 11 October 2019, 6:28 am),

                as I see (besides your acknowledgement) a few odd ( in my eyes) reactions happening, I´d like to share with you, that ever now nd then ( the last years), I´d tried to share some of the attrocities in the UK/SN chat, I had to encounter here in Munic.

                Stuff originated NOT in my fantasy but hard core criminal harrassments. ( And worse)
                REAL, so to say.

                Has been quite delusionary on my part , especially re this virtual situation here , to feed some hope re a ´Sangha´-´solidarity´, if you are misused and/or terrorized in a fascist pretty much anonymous encouter-play !

                What I got by responses here, when complaining about stuff, I had ( and have) to deal with – the guys here also energetically Tan too passed over ” better to shut up with such ” projections” or similiar.

                In Germany we have that saying; “Help yourself, then ” God” will help you”.

                That´s bullshit in a way ( German style) and especially the last decades , where we all are ´walking ” digital” ( nolens-volens) – and some really ugly crackpots seem to enter noisily and often also in violent ways the stage- scene of interpersonal relating, ( not only in the inter-net )mostly anonymous ( but TEC affin !).

                If you, Levina, are not bothered
                ( targetted), please enjoy, be glad.

                I won´t go into that stuff just now deeper, but as you have been asking me… these are the lines for now.

                I´m trying my very best to cope with it all and at the moment, I´ve also to cope with body sickness for quite a while.

                Writing into this ´caravanserai and the chat gave and gives me a lot; also the learning to cope with its virtual character.

                It was Lokesh, wasn´t it (?), who quite recentely reminded on Alan Watt´s book about “Uncertainty/ Insecurity” – that hint – amongst some other of the creative stuff, I ´m enjoying too.

                Thanks, Levina

                Madhu

  8. samarpan says:

    I grew up in a conservative religious protestant culture where dancing was frowned upon as the devil’s handiwork. I did not begin to dance until in my 30s when I came across Osho. Osho was my dance instructor. Osho was my inspiration. Osho gave me the freedom to let go and dance!

    I enjoyed 30 years of dancing until one day I was doing a spin, while dancing salsa in the street in New York City. I forgot what shoes I was wearing. My new tennis shoes grabbed the asphalt street and did not spin…but my knee did…and my dancing days were over.

    Still, I am so grateful to Osho for those 30 years of dancing! Now, here, the celebration of life continues in other forms.

    • Levina says:

      Thanks, Arpana, interesting; I forgot about the rescuer – very recognisable!

      • Arpana says:

        The following is a completely off-the-cuff remark, which just came to me; so not to be made too much of:

        Re Osho as rescuer – or that we, some of us, all of us, approach him as rescuer, and he says, “I ain’t fixing it for you, babe. You gotta do that for yourself. Here’s some tools, and I will give you a few pointers on the way.”

        • Lokesh says:

          Well, Arpana, Osho was certainly instrumental in rescuing me from having become lost on a weird path that was getting me nowhere fast and bringing me into a lot of confusion.

          Today, I can’t really relate to him as a rescuer because I don’t see myself as needing to be rescued from anything. Makes me think of a punch line from Prince’s ‘Let’s go Crazy’:

          “Dearly beloved
          We are gathered here today
          To get through this thing called “life”
          Electric word, life
          It means forever and that’s a mighty long time
          But I’m here to tell you there’s something else
          The afterworld
          A world of never ending happiness
          You can always see the sun, day or night
          So when you call up that shrink in Beverly Hills
          You know the one, Dr. Everything’ll-Be-Alright
          Instead of asking him how much of your time is left
          Ask him how much of your mind, baby
          ‘Cause in this life
          Things are much harder than in the after world
          In this life
          You’re on your own.”

          Yes, we are on our own. Isn’t that wonderful? The flight of the alone to the alone.

          • Arpana says:

            Lokesh writes;
            “Today, I can’t really relate to him as a rescuer because I don’t see myself as needing to be rescued from anything.”

            Thank you for sharing these remarkable revelations with me, Lokesh.

            • Lokesh says:

              Arpana, didn’t your mama tell you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit?

              Besides, who are you to talk? That last article you wrote was full of revelations, none of which were remarkable and most of which lacked any real substance. You don’t exactly come across as a spiritual warrior writing ‘poor wee me soldiering on in spite of it all’ crap, although it is none too clear what it ‘all’ actually is. You use the expression “the shit hitting the fan” three times, but you do not articulate what the “shit” or the “fan” actually represents.

              Your conclusion was, “And I’ve also realised all I needed to fix, let go of, was all the erroneous ideas I had about myself, which were mostly negative.” Well, maybe you did, but what you do not realize is that you still come across as a pretty negative man.

              Good luck with that. I do not have to live with that, but poor wee you does, perhaps, as you put it, one day, “culminating in lying in bed in the early hours, wide awake, and sinking into an abyss of horror and fear.” The way you go on in such drama queen rhetoric is hardly surprising.

              Thanks for providing me with an opportunity to have a wee laugh…sorry it had to be at your expense. Aye, take care of the pennies….

              • Arpana says:

                @Lokesh:

                Well, someone’s been stewing for a while. The only thing that’s suprising about this is that you took so long to post it.

                Sorry I put you on the defensive. Wasn’t aimed at you, or anyone else for that matter.

              • satyadeva says:

                I reckon Arpana deserves credit for getting through quite a few years of extreme personal difficulties, the worst period being, apparently, not in an ashram community, with regular personal access to a great master, neither, it seems, supported by an extended therapeutic ‘family’ over here (eg the Humaniversity).

                Extreme conditions demand extreme measures and to successfully commit oneself to months and years of intense meditation while up against considerable, even at times overwhelming internal pressure is no mean feat. I can relate to this, having had my share of being ‘out on a limb’, where even survival, let alone ‘growth’, feels like an achievement.

                • Arpana says:

                  Thanks, SD.

                  On a more positive note, I also became more attuned to those small positive moments, which can be so uplifting. Discovering C. P. Snow. Running into a friend. All that stuff it’s so easy to take for granted during the ‘Sex and drugs and Rock ‘n’ Roll’ life of being younger.

  9. It’s ok to dance but for someone a secret of longevity is the wife, not having one…a life without the stress of a wife, who cooks savoury and that forces you to the conjugal duty to the point that then one has many desires towards other women.

    Further, if you are single the dance is more easily total, you don’t feel the eyes on you of a woman, who from the darkest corner of the ballroom judges your totality, missing her in it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=97&v=6c5B0ueMvx8

    • Lokesh says:

      Veet, sounds like your experience in such matters is very limited.

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        Yes, Lokesh, between variety and depth I have ideally almost always preferred depth, starting from orgasm, a love without attachments, this allows me to always invite new partners.

        In my opinion, this too, not only the dance/celebration, could explain the moderately youthful/tonic aspect of Osho’s unrepentant lovers.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXghwgkqFg

        • frank says:

          “Between variety and depth I have ideally almost always preferred depth, starting from orgasm, a love without attachments, this allows me to always invite new partners.”

          LOL.

          Keep `em comin`, new age polyamorous polyanna tantric Casanova guy!
          We need some entertainment ’round here!

  10. madhu dagmar frantzen says:

    @ Frank (11 October 2019, at 10:38 pm)
    Yesterday, Frank, you adressed Lokesh with: “Yes, it can be a bit of a shock to wake up and find that you`re one of the unconscious masses after all!”

    Well, yes, fair enough, that´s true.

    The very friends, mostly all around from the so-called ´Western-World´ I came across some decades ago in India (and elsewhere) had undergone this very shock you´re speaking of, BEFORE taking off to India and Osho, looking for guidance to cope with that shock AND yet be open to celebrate life, regaining dignity. There are quite some of those who made it, flying over ‘the cuckoo´s nest’.

    These are not those, in my experience, taking a very ‘noisy stance’, some opened up their own schools, or did not, but sharing their INNER work, and have in common not to pump up their identity by defaming and bashing others.

    Has indeed become more difficult but not impossible to find the signs of such maturing, while the wheel of karma is turning. Law of the nature of evolution, I sometimes call it.
    Any stuff which isn´t dissolved, is ever returning in ever more challenges up to the moment dissolving is done: Indididually and collectively.

    So, I´m taking (reading about) your here presented ´menu´, Frank (growing up in this Chat here into quite a destructive force) always with a bit of (my own !) salt.

    Madhu

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      I agree, Madhu, you managed to say what I think, without using gratuitous, offensive adjectives. These pieces of peel spit out by the Existence do not deserve such respect; while they hope to kill the master by digging in his asshole they do nothing but show theirs.

    • frank says:

      Yes, Maddie,
      Better to take what I say with a large boulder of Himalayan salt!

      • sw. veet (francesco) says:

        Has it already been said that salt does not help longevity, not even the Carthaginian one?
        Is it written somewhere: “welcomes all sannyasins to Carthage”?
        Is there anyone here who can claim that he would have been less asshole without the salt of Osho in his life?

        From these DIY nihilists I am still looking forward to possible alternatives, sensational revelations, but also hypotheses, proposals…or just hopes…ticktock, ticktock….

  11. Lokesh says:

    Personally I think music is something good to dance to.

    Here is a wee track I composed with my musical partner a couple of years ago:
    https://soundcloud.com/user-479839525/dirty-ali-by-tan-tan-tanit?fbclid=IwAR34-GAWRpAGWsVxblTNdF9fXxRHu3KAlQFOGYnzVjN7BjjpvUfth909F5E

    • Tan says:

      Love it, Lokesh!
      Is it a kind of mixture of Latin beat and some Indian and Arabic as well?

      Cheers!

    • Kavita says:

      Lokie, you and your partner are really amazing, thank you for sharing this and also the docu film info was a good watch, had to rewind everytime I blinked

      The wifi (unlimited ) connection I used till August had to be submitted back as it was provided by my mother’s office. Now consciously, I have opted for a limited usage, so now I can spend less time on the computer!

  12. swami anand anubodh says:

    There is an assumption in this topic that the ‘dance routines’ assigned to the old folk were solo affairs, like how sannyasins essentially dance. I reckon they were more likely paired as couples.

    In which case, it’s probably the human physical contact giving a psychological boost and creating any benefits. A boost which those doing solo endurance training did not have.

    Flawed research is common in academia, I suspect this is just another example.

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      I agree, Swami Anand Anubodh, on the power of human contact to improve also the aesthetic aspect, if this does not imply the flawed assumption that the sannyasins were those involved in endurance couple dance training.
      In the Osho groups I did there was a lot of physical contact, then I liked (I like) dancing alone, better if among ecstatic people.

    • frank says:

      I wish I still had the legs to keep up with girl in the middle…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJNiMNUSrw8

  13. sw. veet (francesco) says:

    After seeing the aesthetic effect that meditation (by Osho) has had on me and my friends of the sangha, I think that if the success of cosmetic surgery has a meaning it could be to hide the ugliness of the inner world of those who use it.

    Yet, but I could say “in fact”, it seems that what remains of Osho, thanks to the English-speaking propaganda, with its pragmatic approach, are just the RRs.

    Perhaps it is not even a coincidence that the 2 imperial powers are heatedly discussing with/against their leaders, Donald and Boris, on the best way to have more advantages of the external world.

    And in this post-modern quagmire it is rare to feel spiritual thirst; to poison the rare wells capable of quenching that thirst is the greatest irresponsibility, good luck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq3Q5YzA5Zc
    “Hello boys, the show starts
    Spiritual like Osho with the Rolls Royces
    Money circulates as offshore
    I don’t know about you, I’m going to get myself a religion like Tolstoy
    Even the skeptics look for an answer
    If there is heaven and someone proves it
    Dear Tiziano (Terzani), quite a ride
    It will be a chupito-type rite of Jonestown
    Maybe it will be age
    But I want a cult to be observed to be free to deprive me of my freedom.”

    (Caparezza)

  14. samarpan says:

    Does the dancer’s state of mind influence whether or not dancing has the fountain of youth effect? I am reminded of a passage in Subhuti’s new book: WILD WILD GURU, where he describes his experience after the death of Vipassana, a Dutch sannyasin:

    “Vipassana’s body was lying in the meditation hall and scores of orange-robed sannyasins were dancing around her as if this was some kind of party. I was also trying to dance, but in a state of shock. I’d never seen a dead body before and it was hard enough to accept the fact that I was in the presence of death, let alone celebrate the occasion, as Bhagwan had invited us to do. “This is all phoney,” I thought, closing my eyes to avoid comparing myself with the ecstatic-looking people around me.

    Bang! Next moment, my head had collided with another head. I abruptly opened my eyes to see another bald-headed intellectual, this one from Germany, looking at me with the same astonishment with which I was looking at him.”

    (Waight, Subhuti Anand: ‘Wild Wild Guru’ Hodder & Stoughton).

    What happens next is not described in the Sun review of WILD WILD GURU. In addition to the book title, WILD WILD GURU has 304 pages, and the worth of Subhuti’s book cannot be adequately judged by a brief ‘Sun’ hit piece.

    • frank says:

      A bald intellectual bangs his head against another bald intellectual over 40 years ago!
      I`m on the edge of my seat!
      Stop! I think I`m having a heart attack!

      And a book can`t be judged by a piece in ‘The Sun’?
      My God! Everything I took to be reality is crumbling apart!

    • Lokesh says:

      Sam, I hope to fuck you are getting paid for this wee bit of PR you are doing on SN.

      As it happens, I was friends with Vipassana as I am with her brother Viyogi. Remember one night sitting around with Vipassana in Goa having a sing-song. She was an exceptionally dynamic woman, singer and musician. The spirit that a human being like her is host to never dies. I recall Osho saying that she only had one more life to go after this one. I sometimes thought he made that sort of shit up, but one never really knows.

      • frank says:

        Having dealt with the death of various family members over the last few years, I have perused a lot of related poetry whilst helping to organise the ceremonies/celebrations.

        This is one that stuck with me by a Czech poet, Vladimir Holan:

        Resurrection

        Is it true that after this life of ours
        we shall one day be awakened by a
        terrifying clamour of trumpets?

        Forgive me, God,
        but I console myself that the beginning
        and resurrection of all of us dead
        will simply be announced
        by the crowing of a cock.

        After that we will remain
        lying down a while.
        The first to get up
        will be mother.

        We’ll hear her, quietly
        laying the fire, quietly putting
        the kettle on the stove and
        cosily taking the teapot out of the cupboard.

        We’ll be home once more.

        • Arpana says:

          What a cracking poem, Frank. Wish I could read that in the original language. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

        • satyadeva says:

          A beautiful poem and it would seem from the main image that you might well have enjoyed a peaceful, loving home, Frank. Is that right?

          My own parallel experience was rather less ideal, my father (the epitome of ‘control’) ‘commanding’ the kitchen from 6.30am every morning, making tea and shining his shoes, while listening to the news on the radio, and even appearing to resent my very occasional intrusion. I was after the newspapers for the sports pages, he was treasuring his personal space…I didn’t like him very much.

          • Arpana says:

            I wrote this in October 1984. During that Saturn Return.

            I think a lot of death these days.
            I’m nearly 40 now.
            You see it really has come home to me, I’m not special.
            Death has me in its gaze.
            All final goodbyes are a death. Do you see?
            It’s over now. Another part will die.
            Another hurt, another breath, another cold goodbye;
            and seeing it’s another death, won’t let me be.
            I was born, I will, must die.
            Death and birth, two sides, no rush,
            I know I’ll get there by and by.
            Why am I drawn? Need a push. It’s the adventure, risking death,
            not clutching at life to the very last breath.

            Swami Prem Arpana, 1984

            MOD:
            Wasn’t that astrological set-up a Saturn transit (ie through an astro sign) rather than your personal Saturn Return (around 15 months before and after every 29 years), Arpana?

            ARPANA:
            Probably, Mod, I’m not well up on the phrasing. The general info has made a big impact on me though. I’ve been searching for this poem since last night.

            MOD:
            My astrologer friend says it was not a transit, but a Saturn Period. In indian Astrology one of the major factors is planetary periods. Each Planet has a period of time when its influence predomnates. They all go in sequence. But the sequence is different for each chart.

          • frank says:

            SD,
            I see what you mean.

            I guess the poem could play better if the reader had a happy childhood/parents. I don`t know what kind of childhood the writer had.

            I still vibe with the kind of simplicity of it despite my childhood not being exactly ideal (whose is?).

            My dad was a bit psycho too, not the greatest communicator at home, but that was more or less the job description in those days, as far as I could make out! Chit-chat was something best left to the women, but at least my mum was glad to fill the gap.

            The `new man`, in either sense, hadn`t quite kicked in in those dark days before sex, drugs, `rock`n` roll and pop psychology!

  15. samarpan says:

    The Rehfeld study referenced conducted research utilizing “dance routines of different genres (Jazz, Square, Latin-American and Line Dance).” These require mental activity to remember routines and steps, as well as the physical ability to execute them. For example, jazz dance routines utilize ball changes, split leaps, pirouettes, swish splits, switch leaps, pas de bourreé, piqué passé, etc.

    In my experience, nothing like that was present in dancing done by sannyasins in Poona. I participated in Sufi dance, African dance, Gurdjieff sacred dance, and Music Group dance. With the exception of the Gurdjieff movements, most “dancing” done by sannyasins was more like dance improvisaton, pretty much heart-centred free expression, not memorized steps/routines.

    • frank says:

      Sam,
      You are right; apart from G`s Movements, which are a kind of spiritual line dancing, and Sufi which is kind of circle dancing, us lot have always been in the freaky/rave camp.

      Don`t forget the guys in this survey are trying to stave off memory loss and Alzheimers and whatnot.

      Freaky dancers are trying to get rid of their minds altogether!

    • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

      So nice, Samarpan (14 October, 2019 at 12:14 am), that (and how) you reminded us on the topic…

      Too bad that the marble dance floor under the sky is just occupied and used for a boxing competition, mostly by the two old champions, who are going into the ring every now and then. We have to wait then as spectators as long as it´s said: game over (for now).

      In the eighties, you know, besides the dance classes of sannyasins you mentioned, I enjoyed too what was once called: ‘Contact Dance´. A free flow of improvisations, making contact with one another, sometimes happening that a whole little group is telling one of the numerous unknowable stories the bodies can tell, ephemeral and never to be repeated.
      That was precious to watch and I´ve been in awe when watching such or even joining IN.

      There have been wonderful contact-dancers, I remember. The contact-dance as a living piece of Art, mostly performed without music but also music can happen.

      More in nowadays time, I recall having had contact with a sannyasin friend here in Munich, who, for a long time and almost already two decades, joins the Salsa (or also Circle Dance)- community here regulary, once or twice a week. It´s her way to have an appointment with meditation.

      And the time we met regulary for silent meditations together, there was Silence sitting at her place and I enjoyed very much when we sat close to each other by chance.

      Yes, Dance is an expression of awareness an Art of Joy to be alive. And those who are really into it, I never heard them brag about using dance as a means to stay ´young´. They just are.
      Somtimes in peak moments – Timeless.

      Thanks for your contribution, Samarpan.

      Madhu

  16. Prem says:

    It is very funny to see 60-70 year-old sannyasins who still think they are teenagers – and it suddenly dawns on them: we’re going to die soon.

    A lot of sannyasin communes now look like old people’s homes. Old people who are still trying to act like teenagers.

    It takes a certain wisdom to realize you are going to die…and to accept and embrace that with serenity, realizing that it is part of life.

    It is ok to be 70 and to feel depressed or fearful. Your body is starting to decompose. Stop trying to pretend that you are a teenager!

    There is beauty in acceptance of death, there is beauty in acceptance of old age.

    There is a certain natural rhythm to the stages of life.. if you accept it, it is beautiful.

    But as sannyasins we have been conditioned to “celebrate” and “act like teenagers living in the moment”. We refuse to grow up, how can we accept old age or even death?

    My favourite section of Osho News is the articles about sannyasins who died recently.
    Every time I read a new article, I think to myself: “Oops, another nigga dead.”

    By the way, I am 40 years old, but I have been meditating on death since I was 17.

    Death and life have to both be accepted, so they can dance together.
    Youth and the ageing of the body have to both be accepted, so there is harmony.

    So yes, it is funny to me when I see a 70 year-olds pretend that they are not old, they are still teenagers.

    And then death comes: boom! And they end up in the Obituary section on Osho News.

    Acceptance of death and old age is beautiful. You can feel young inside, but accept that death is programmed in your body since birth.

    Namaste.

    • Lokesh says:

      Hardly rocket science. It does not matter what age you are, death can happen to you at any given moment. I am 68 and have watched many friends old and young die.

      Right now, I am off for a long distance swim in a rough sea. So, when you sit reading this you will know I am out in the big blue with white caps rolling in over me and relishing the fact that I am still very much alive.

      I do not feel like I am a teenager. I feel that I am ageless. Spirit in a body experiencing this beautiful world. Rock and roll.

    • Arpana says:

      @Prem, who said:

      “It is very funny to see 60-70 year-old sannyasins who still think they are teenagers – and it suddenly dawns on them: we’re going to die soon.’

      How exactly do you know this, Prem? Perhaps you’d care to share the research sources.

      • Lokesh says:

        Arpana, you use the word “defensive” a lot in regards to what others are saying. It is an old Poona One card that undermines what someone is saying, because being on the defensive is seen in Sannyaslandia as being bad.

        Personally, I appreciate when I see someone standing up for themselves and going on the defensive, if justified. There is a certain type of asshole that only gets going when on the attack. You know, putting others down to raise themselves up to fuck knows what kind of higher ground. I will always stand up to that kind of crap or, on the other hand, kick back and let mama karma do her work…sometimes requires patience to see that happen, other times it is instant.

        In this particular instance, I do not feel defensive about anything being discussed here. You are as old as you feel.

        Right now, I feel chilled to the core because after a long swim in an amazingly wild sea I could not get into my car and the wind was blowing hard. Brrrrr!

        I suggest, Arpana, that you broaden your horizons, because the cards you are playing are so old and thin everyone with a bit of sense can see you are playing a losing hand. But whatever you do don’t get defensive about it, because you might get a black mark in your report card.

        • Arpana says:

          You’re confused because you live in the past about Poona 1, Lokesh. To whit your constant name -dropping.

          If you weren’t on the defensive you would ignore me. And what does it matter if you are anyway? I get defensive. So what?

          • Lokesh says:

            Arpana, you spent little time in Poona One and therefore did not really have the chance to get to know a lot of the wonderful people there. I was there from the beginning to the end and enjoyed the opportunity to make many friends. What you describe as “name-dropping” is merely me acknowledging the existence of friends. It is not my fault if you feel jealous about that.

            As for being confused by living in the past about Poona One, I really have not the faintest idea what you are talking about. Were it not for the fact that I write here on SN I would rarely think about the good old days…too busy enjoying the good new days.

            I feel compelled to be honest and admit that a couple of weeks ago an old Poona One friend showed up and we had a good chat about days gone by. It was fun. You should try it sometimes…but might be difficult because you seem more hung up on the good old bad days.

            You are the only person that I have contact with who was traumatised by TM; sounds like a fucking joke, man, but there you go…different strokes for different jokers and sometimes you catch a crab.

            • Arpana says:

              I spent little time in Poona, did I, Lokesh?

              I was there a year. Worked in Vipassana. Lived there long enough to start working out not everyone who had a sannyasin name was anything to do with Sannyas. Also long enough to start developing a jaundiced view of some ashramites. Also met some terrific people I’m still close to. Just ordinary people. Don’t need to wear them like a laurel wreath.

            • madhu dagmar frantzen says:

              All well and good, Lokesh ( today at 3:50 pm) !

              However, I´m asking myself, how come that you are one of the most regulars of this virtual SN/UK chat here, a chat, where at least me , I´m unable to discover any signs of remarkely friendly respect and acknowledgement re other contributers from you side.
              ( Except late Parmartha (!) of course and you also seem to spare Satydeva as well (mostly)…. or Tan… from your quite often vitriol demolishing comments…)

              You did write your books, didn ´t you ?
              You´re composing your disco sounds for the disco dance – generation .
              And last not least your longtime swimming experiences are really impressing and I mean, what I say !

              What is it, what keeps you here in that chat with ( unknown to you – mostly unknowable (?) ) other contributers, who – most of the time – are not really acknowledged/ respected in your
              stance ?

              That question sometimes comes up in me, as well as just now .

              If you just declare other contributers here as ´jealous´etc, will not do, Lokesh !

              Takes quite a ´dance´ this thread topic just now, doesn´t it ?
              With or without published ´brain-scan… doesn´t it?

              Madhu

              • Lokesh says:

                Jealousy is Arpana’s problem. Madhu, not mine. The root of it lies in his need to compare himself to other people, rather than simply accept himself.

                Madhu, you ask, “What is it, what keeps you here?”
                I enjoy SN. It’s a good cross-section of the sannyas world. From dummies to fun people, kings, queens and in-betweens, and great spiritual warriors like Arpana, and undefinables like yourself. What more can you ask for?

                I live in the countryside and lead a sparse social life. Just came back from the neighbours, who are all sannyasins. I find that sannyasins have a certain something about them that I like, speaking generally.

                No matter how much contact someone had with Osho does not make them special but it often shows in a positive way.

                I have met three people, including Shantam, through SN, and I enjoyed hooking up with them. Parmartha was a lovely guy. Very understated, which is something I appreciate about people.

                Sometimes you meet people on Ibiza and they seem pretty ordinary because they give little away about themselves. Then later you discover that they are quite remarkable in one way or another. Best guy I met in the last couple of years was a wandering shaman. Looked like a hippy and turned out to be an extraordinary inter-dimensional expert. Great guy. Great sense of humour and a true psychonaught. He introduced me to a new way of seeing life.

                So, there you go, Madhu, I hope that answers your question.

                Oh, yeah, one more thing. Were I to visit Munich I would be sure to look you up. I am certain that you are a lovely human being. Big hug.

      • Lokesh says:

        Arpana, I doubt Prem knows this. How can he?

        I reckon the ones who rattle on about death-related issues are often afraid of the process of dying. Best way to learn how to face death is to live and not think too much about death.

        • Arpana says:

          @Lokesh 15th Oct. 2.58p.m.

          I totally agree with you on this.

          Better to be old and totter round a dance floor than be a smug, self righteous, 40 year-old prig, who doesnt have the courage to risk looking foolish.

          If you live life to the full, no matter how old you are, someone will always judge you to be a fool. Fuck ‘em!!

        • satchit says:

          Arpana, you will not win against El Loco.

          But one sees how excited he his, that you, his dancing partner, are back on the stage. So the Tango dancing can go on!

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      “But as sannyasins we have been conditioned to “celebrate” and “act like teenagers living in the moment. How can we accept old age or even death?”

      Are you sure, Prem, that you’re 40?

      It still doesn’t happen to me to confuse personal pronouns, and I’m visiting this planet 15 years before you.

      Perhaps what ages men is carrying on their shoulders the existential weight of their own lies, and what makes them die sooner than expected is having nothing nice to share.

      • Lokesh says:

        Yes, and if people want to dance and celebrate it is their business, no matter how old they appear to be. We live in a world of our own creation.

    • anand yogi says:

      Perfectly correct, Prem!

      Certainly the baboons at the Orange Sunshine Retirement Home are also behaving like badly behaved teenagers as per the norm for 60-70 year-old sannyasins behaving badly!!

      Scuffles and fights that stem from ego and the mind break out in the virtual corridors every day and even pleas and threats from Matron Madhu are not enough to deter these fools from pulling willies out of their incontinence pants and waving them about wildly with no shame whatsoever!

      Instead of making serious pilgrimage to the divine and following 5000 year-old discipline laid down by diktats of wise men of mighty Bhorat, these so-called sannyasins have utterly missed!

      Whilst you have, in your wisdom, been sitting in your bedsit philosophising and meditating deeply on your inevitable demise, these baboons have been hanging around discos doing the freaky funky chicken and the hippy hippy shake, chasing members of opposite sex, shagging and laughing their asses off, doing loads of top grade class As, hanging loose in various paradise zones, flying round like Jonathan Livingston Seagull on steroids round the world, having a whale of a time, larging it up big-time and generally abusing the freedom that Osho has given them!

      Prem, it is perfectly good that you have been meditating on death since you were 17! And it is very clear to those who have eyes to see these things that your efforts have brought you very close to brain stem death already!

      Yahoo!
      Hari Om!

      • Lokesh says:

        Yogi, that brought a good laugh to a quiet, windy night. I got to hand it to you, man, you have a great sense of humour. One of the best compliments I can give. Thank you for your wisdom. Fucking brilliant! Are you Arpana’s, the great spiritual warrior traumatised by TM, alter ego?

        Only joking. I believe in miracles but not to that extent.

        • anand yogi says:

          Perfectly correct, Lokesh.

          But remember: laughter meditation must only be done under guidance of fully certified laughter therapist and only whilst listening to punchlines delivered as device for awakening by fully enlightened masters!

          Yahoo!
          Hari Om!

          • Lokesh says:

            Yogi, I will follow your wise counsel because I have heard that even the mildest forms of meditation can leave one traumatised. Now all I have to do is find a fully enlightened master.

            The first person I think about is, of course, the great spiritual warrior, Arpana, who spent a year in Poona One, a very long time by anyone’s standards, which makes him rank alongside the likes of Tilopa and Milarepa and, of course, Mohamed Ali.

            My problem is I am worried that Sri Sri Maharishi Arpana might find me unworthy as a disciple. I have a great fear of rejection from such an enlightened master. Yogi, do you think you could put in a good word for me?

            • Arpana says:

              Devil crossed by Hierophant.

              To gain mastery over some shadow aspect of your personality or some deeply held fear or phobia

              • Lokesh says:

                Makes me think of the time I attended an absolutely mind-blowing tarot session. It was really uncanny. Next morning I went to the discourse and sure enough Osho talked about the tarot. The essence of the talk was that tarot is for people who lack significance in their lives. Because of the circumstances that talk stayed with me.

                When the Osho Zen Tarot came out Osho changed his tune about tarot reading. Kinda typical of him. Osho was no different from anyone else on that level. He took pleasure out of devising ways to make money. Of course, it was all a device for our awakening.

                I have never felt drawn to any forms of divination except the I Ching and that only rarely. Having said that, it does not mean I write tarot, astrology etc. off. I don’t. I have one friend on Ibiza who is an excellent tarot reader and I never sit down with her on that level because I know from past experience if I do the cards with her all kinds of weird shit will start happening, and life is weird enough already.

                I have a friend who died, called Ra, who developed an astrology process called The Human Design System. It was hugely successful but I was never very interested in it. Many sannyasins make a good living from doing this system with fee-paying clients. Good luck to them. I have to give it to Ra, he developed a great moneymaker, which brought meaning into people’s lives. Nuff said.

  17. Arpana says:

    “A 70 year-old sannyasin asks if he is too old to meditate (the Marquis of Bath, known as an eccentric in England). Osho says he is not old. The sannyasin replies: “Once I very nearly did meditate unconsciously. That was in the war. I was lying on my bed and twice I stopped breathing – and I was frightened. I didn’t breathe in or out.” ”

    https://justpaste.it/MarquisofBath

  18. Lokesh says:

    Going with the flow….

    • sw. veet (francesco) says:

      To stay in the flow of existence, winners or losers does not matter, the important thing is not to constrict the inner flow (influenced by how I perceive myself) with the identification of the results achieved (or not), if it is true that the weight of the ego curves my back like the elderly.

      The Greek philosophers distinguished between “method” and “aporia”: the first allows you to continue along the path, the other one blocks you or does not take you anywhere.

      A spiritual seeker, like me, having had no parental models from which to learn winning models, had to develop a practical method of trying many ways by learning from my own and others’ mistakes, giving up the idea of ​​infallibility (developing an ego with a negative sign: victim, unlucky, isolated..).

      But the winning method to reach the daily goals of the horizontal life does not coincide with the one that allows me to live in the vertical flow of existence.

      Then I would say that a method that makes me move in the horizontal flow of life without ever reflecting in front of the wall of a defeat can be the greatest misfortune, while a method that numbs my horizontal needs in front of a zazen wall is the greatest cowardice.

  19. Lokesh says:

    Wild, wild, what’s next….

  20. Shantam prem says:

    Article is about dance and not a single comment about Nataraj or Kundalini meditation or last stage of Dynamic.

    One more example of sannyasins losing their cutting edge.