Within years AI has become the household name, Artificial Intelligence is so real, it has the capacity to change human behaviour and interactions for good or bad or both ways.
To be honest, I have no contribution in the development of this scientific breakthrough, though I have a bachelor’s degree in mathematics and economics.
During my college years, my maths professor, to whom I was also going for private tutoring, mentioned, he has never seen someone suffering so much in maths class, more than me. He suggests that I study something else, more poetic. He sees in me a poet, writer and a philosopher but not an engineer or a technocrat.
Because of my inner reality and life experiences, I don´t hesitate to say, I have developed some capacity, one can say, Spiritual Intelligence. Yes, it is nothing extraordinary nor rocket science.
Keeping this in mind, let me say very clearly, Neo-Sannyas created the lab for Artificial Spiritual Intelligence (ASI)..
What is the foremost symptom of ASI? Going on quoting philosophers and mystics of the last century.
Fact is there is so much discrepancy between the walk and talk of star spiritualists, most probably they died with intact delusions.
One can see, their work has lost most of the real life meaning and impact.
Whether AI or ASI, both are leaving the inner sensibilities dry and juiceless. It is no wonder, in spite of all the prosperity, humans are feeling like existential orphans holding a survival stick called Mobile. We as a human collectives are living not on emotional connections but social media.
Even on this site, how many have got the chance to meet face to face and have a coffee or a beer?
Years ago, with my younger son, we spent just a few hours with Lokesh. They were Real, not artificial.
If I dream about a meeting place of friends, it is not to play a guru selling artificial wisdom but a space where spiritual intelligence is cultivated in one’s own heart and shared with others.
In my heart of hearts, I imagine a world better than the 20th or 21st century till now . Hopefully, evolution will take care.
Humanity does not need self-certified Enlightened but wise people next door.
PS:
In spiritual Intelligence, communication and dialogue are very important. There is always scope for correction and refinement.
I have read this article right through twice. I am unsure what it is all about. It is simply unclear on that level. It is viewed as quite standard for a writer to draw their conclusion in the last paragraph. In this case that is, “Humanity does not need self-certified Enlightened but wise people next door.” Erm…okay, Shantam, anything you say.
Shantam claims that, during his college years, his maths professor viewed him as a poet, writer and a philosopher but not an engineer or a technocrat. Perhaps this conclusion came from an algebra equation that was still in the experimental stage and needed a few kinks ironed out. I say this because I do not in the least view Shantam as a poet, philosopher or writer, particularly not the latter.
The reader is left with a reminder that “In spiritual Intelligence, communication and dialogue are very important. There is always scope for correction and refinement.”
A bit of a generalism, but in Shantam’s case this certainly rings true.
Even though the article does not make a lot of sense, I enjoyed it. Shantam’s maths professor missed the obvious. Shantam is a comedian.
Are the fellow commentators contemplating over the contents of this article?
If there is no readymade quotation about AI or ASI from the literature of last century, one can create a few.
Shantam, I waited a couple of days to reflect on what Lokesh wrote, who knows you best here.
Not knowing you, I don’t know if the irony I perceive in your post includes you as well, or if the core of your argument is serious, that is, not self-deprecating.
You apparently invite members of the neo-sannyasin movement to leave the ASI lab and meet people in person, people you know only thanks to this lab, which exists thanks to the vast spiritual science produced by a scientist you accuse of not having applied it to his own life.
Since your professor saw you as more of a poet than a mathematician, and since logical reasoning is a resource in an artificial intelligence lab, if you’re not being ironic, then I don’t understand the point of you entering a lab every day for 15 years, unless you, in such a lab, only went in to hand out samosas to the scientists during chai breaks, also finding time to recite some of your poems.
Since your poetry often focuses on the life and science to which the laboratory is dedicated, denouncing flaws in the management (not only financial) of the central hub, this may preclude the scientists from accepting your invitation to leave the laboratory and share real emotions with you…
Lokesh did so, and he preferred the man behind the poet. This means that before accepting the date with you, your poetry, at least in your intentions, must have struck a chord with him, but this is not the case with me.
In my opinion, if you want your invitation to be heard, you should first provide some clues about the man’s path, because this isn’t immediately clear from your poetry.
One might meet you and, as you say, be left with the delusions intact.
Sw. Veet fFrancesco, is there anyone on this site who knows you?
Are you on facebook or insta with your real face and identity?
One of the main symptoms of Artificial Spiritual Intelligence is to remain hidden in the veil of anonymity or create fictitous names.
All the sannyas names are fictitous.
The name change experiment has produced artifical personalites.
Usually, Shantam, you don’t meet Osho’s people through Facebook (I don’t have any social media platforms of that kind; I was one of the last to buy a mobile phone with internet, and only because the company where I worked communicated via WhatsApp) but through communes and meditation centres of the Master of Masters.
If you want, meet me there.
These are very violent times, full of people full of Zionist, Nazi, fundamentalist, pro-vaccination propaganda, etc. Even in civilized Holland, you could be welcomed by the same assholes seen in action in the USA, Israel, Portugal, Germany…
I don’t know how you absorb the mainstream narrative, but I prefer not to risk it; I’m a bit reactive myself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfZOfQr3hOM
Putting the ‘artificial’ in front of ‘spiritual intelligence’ seems like a thinly veiled piece of marketing gibberish, if you ask me, Shantam.
I think whatever spiritual intelligence sannyasins acquired, it owes much to Osho’s understanding and listening to his discourses. We don’t want to fall into the role of parrots, but we stand on the shoulders of a giant…
In a way, our education early in life was an attempt by society at brainwashing. I too received the ‘benefits’ of a university education (a bachelors in engineering) and found it to be of only slight use in later life. If you ask me what would I have liked to have done in hindsight, perhaps English literature. Something touching on the subject of life, not technology.
“Culture is not your friend. Culture is for other peoples’ convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes, what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you. It disempowers you. It uses and abuses you. None of us are well-treated by culture.”
( Terence McKenna )
“I think whatever spiritual intelligence sannyasins acquired, it owes much to Osho’s understanding and listening to his discourses. We don’t want to fall into the role of parrots, but we stand on the shoulders of a giant….”
Yeah. Ever heard of the Zen slogan:
‘If you meet the giant on your way, kill him immediately!’?
Or, Satchit, at the very least, get rid of the pedestals that dafties often hoist their heroes onto.
Shantam, frankly, in my experience, any kind of such a place you are dreaming of happens either when someone has absolutely undisputed existential as well as undisputed / disputed financial backing & all of that happens quite effortlessly.
Maybe initially even the supposed Gurus who created such places also had a dream like yours!
Btw, never before seen or heard anyone put so much written effort regarding such a dream!
Since I am not in any kind of astrology! Would only wish you the best always.
Somehow can’t relate to this AI / ASI, to me all technology is part of Existence & No-techno / Naturalness is beyond probably comprehensiveness, which we humans tend to comhrehend!
Osho told many illuminating stories, providing his listeners with a great set of tools to carry under their belts.
“The Zen Master Hakuin was honoured by his neighbours as oen who led a pure life. One day it was discoverd that a beautiful girl who lived near Hakuin was pregnant. The parents were very angry. At first, the girl would not say who the father was, but after much harassment she named Hakuin. In great anger, the parents went to Hakuin, but all he would say was, “Is that so?”
After the child was born, it was taken to Hakuin – who had lost his reputation by this time, although he didn’t appear much disturbed by the fact.
Hakuin took great care of the child. He obtained milk, food, and everything else the child needed from his neighbours.
A year later, the girl-mother could stand it no longer, so she told her parents the truth – the real father was a young man who worked in the fish market. The mother and father of the girl went round at once to Hakuin to tell him the story, apologise at great length, ask his forgiveness and get the child back.
As the master willingly yielded the child, he said, “Is that so?” “
If intelligence is “the mental faculty that allows us to understand, learn, elaborate concepts, and solve new problems,” then we need to understand what we want to learn, understand, and elaborate on spirituality, and what problems need to be solved.
For some, the problem is how to reach paradise, enlightenment, or the end of the cycle of rebirth and death.
Therefore, we must learn, understand, and elaborate concepts about spirituality, seeking the right sources and not misleading ones. However, recognizing that we are on the wrong path would not be the end of spiritual growth, since awareness of our own limitations and the flexibility to adapt to a new situation are a symptom of intelligence.
I read the article, was slightly confused by it, but on reflection some sense of the words “spiritual intelligence” did come through. I think it is fair to say that Osho did teach to his sannyasins a sense of spiritual intelligence. We all sat in Buddha Hall listening to his discourses, his anecdotes and his teachings, and we absorbed the sense in which the things he said were true…
For example, I loved this Sufi story of khidr:
“One day, a man, a minor official of weights and measures in his home town, received a visitation. A severe man in a green robe appeared to him to say, are you ready to follow me? The official replied fearfully, yes, and was told, then throw yourself off this bridge into the river. He did as he was told and was swept downstream, and was rescued after some distance by a fisherman.
The fisherman allowed him to stay at his cottage, and taught him to fish, while the man taught him to read and write. After some months, the man in the green robe appeared again, less severe this time, and instructed him to take his fish to a nearby town and become a trader in skins.
The man did as he was told, and prospered. After some years he had accumulated enough wealth to think of buying a property and settling down with a family, when the man in green appeared again, and with a small smile instructed him to sell everything that he owned and donate it to a temple.
The man did so, and staying at the temple, small things started happening around him. Lost objects would be found, people would be cured by his touch. When he was later asked, how did he become so holy that miracles would manifest around him, all he would say is that he did as he was told.”
Osho then explained the key to the story: khidr is associated with the colour green in the stories of the Sufi’s, and represents the flow of existence. By learning the story’s meaning, we begin to understand a little about the meaning of living a surrendered life, and we learn to see what it means to be spiritually intelligent.
The fact that this resonated with me, that I see something in it and have remembered it out of all the anecdotes Osho told, means that in some regard I am ready for what it teaches.
Oh dear, NP. Next, you’ll be floating down the Amstel on your way to only the man in the green robe knows.
This is the problem with taking these things literally. That is not an example of spiritual intelligence, I’m sad to say, Lokesh.
Yes, I suppose this is due to my lack of spiritual intelligence. My bad for taking the Sufi story literally and taking it as true, in that some poor unsurrendered guy jumped in the river and so forth.
So, speaking from your perspective of spiritual intelligence, what really happened?
That is the beauty of it, on some level it is true. It is about non-attachment, trust in existence, dedication to a spiritual life, generosity, discernment. If you can find these qualities in your life, then you will be able to recognise khidr when it comes into your life.
It’s not that everyone with whom the story resonates should start throwing themselves off bridges, just that when an unexpected influence comes into your life, you consider that it may be existence taking a hand, and that “no” and hard-heartedness are not friends of the spiritual life.
There was a movie a while back called ‘Yes Man’ starring Jim Carrey. I don’t know if you recall it. It’s about a cynic who visits a self-help seminar and gets given the task of saying yes to every opportunity that comes his way. It’s a comedy, showing all the things that happen if you take this to an extreme, but there is an underlying kernel of truth to the story.
I see, NP. From now on, you can call me Grasshopper, if you wish. Thank you for elucidating on the subject of spiritual intelligence.
Now, if I see a green-robed figure floating across the sea on the back of a big silver fish, I will know it is al-Khidr.
Well, I imagine you don’t want to try being sensei… it strikes me as not chiming well with your rebellious Scottish nature.
You’ve often said you have fond memories of your time with Osho, but I wonder about your later spiritual experiences. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since Osho, have you ever tried to see where your spiritual search has taken you?
NP, had you any idea about how patronizing you might come across in writing such a daft question to me, you would not have scribed it. So, in the meantime you can keep on wondering ad infinitum.
“NP, had you any idea how patronizing you might come across in writing such a daft question to me, you would not have scribed it. So, in the meantime, you can keep on wondering ad infinitum.” SN’s stern Jewish father.
It’s normal that he rejected such an attempt, Nityaprem. With such arrogant people, you try to use the rhetorical cudgel.
You tried to act like a father to someone who has a deep-seated dispute with his father.
The proof of this is in his recurring and favourite communication strategy, paternalistic, precisely: “a persuasive strategy based on a tone of good-natured superiority. The speaker addresses the audience by assuming the role of a wise and protective guide (like a loving father), implicitly diminishing the interlocutor’s autonomy and pushing him to accept unsolicited advice or directions.”
When Lokesh addresses you with “I wonder” or “I’m just curious” to learn something about you, he’s actually saying, “Let’s hear what this idiot has to say in defence of himself,” as he did on the previous page of the Chat, where you later criticized me for responding to him with a club, against the symbols of our original religion, not just his own, with the difference that we are grateful for the work of the club used by Osho.
In this, Shantam and Lokesh are in the same boat; they’re both trying to return to their father’s side, and they’d like to convince as many lost souls as possible to do the same…overlooking small details like how, in the name of the Father, I should grow my hair long and be reborn with Palestinian blood.
When the two prodigies talk about Meera or Papaji, it’s just a delaying tactic for a showdown that’s not yet ripe, while they collect smoking guns, a trail of over 40 years.
Now that I think about it, it seems no coincidence that these are the two commentators who have been most present since the forum’s founding, that they are both critical of Osho’s work and lovers, that they both have a paternalistic attitude toward younger brothers who make mistakes, that they happen to be perhaps the only ones who have met in person, and finally, to divert some possible suspicions about their true intentions, they feigned a victim-tyrant dialectic between them.
I hope their home organizations give them some free lunches.
Osho for religions “in the name of the Father” is more corrosive than Max Stirner for Marxism, with the difference that Osho has a community that continues to be united by that quality of love for life, while poor M. Stirner died as he lived: a misanthrope.
Persuasion Techniques “in the Name of the Father”:
“How Paternalistic Rhetoric Works
False Symmetry: The speaker places himself on the same emotional level as the audience to create a sense of intimacy (e.g., “my friends,” “listen to my advice for your own good”), but maintains a clear intellectual or moral hierarchy.
Emotional but Limiting Language: Sweet and heartfelt tones are used to justify interfering in others’ choices, assuming that the recipient is incapable of making autonomous decisions for their own benefit.
Presumption of Benevolence:
The core principle of this rhetoric is the declared intent to “protect” or “guide” the other.
Practical Examples
Politics:
When a leader addresses citizens, presenting restrictive or welfare measures as “gestures of care” on the part of a welfare state, presenting obedience as the natural counterpart to protection.
Social Communication:
Speeches that They promote charity by portraying recipients as passively in need of protection, rather than as subjects with rights.” (AI)
Don’t tempt the Sufi master in me, Nityaprem.
I could take away your books and coffee for a week.
“At my most stupidly materialistic, I left a stable government job for a life of searching for resources to invest in my spiritual growth.”
I believe that if I had continued to apply the criterion of “material intelligence”, prioritizing the comforts of a life with a secure salary but neglecting the Master’s invitation to walk a path of light homeward, today I would probably be a somewhat withered single man, amidst the rewards of an easy life, or married and dealing with the complications of a family with intelligent material demands.
Nothing fails like the success of applying material intelligence, while the failures of spiritual intelligence heighten the awareness that joy lies not in achieving a goal.
Not my Lavazza Qualita Oro! Only an upset bowel will keep me from my morning moka. Hehe…
It’s definitely a thing. When you start making demands, you move away from a surrendered life, and habits and creature comforts are a barrier to a truly spiritual life.
In a way, to live a modern life is to accumulate things. And then you need a house to keep your things in. And a car to transport what you buy. Before you know it, you are enclosed in a matrix of legal obligations, finances, relationships…
Life as a sadhu in India would be simpler. Just bathe in the Ganges every day, pray to Shiva, and voila!
@MOD errata corrige at June 10, 2026 at 7:54 am, 2nd paragraph:
I’m not sure “materially stupid” is equivalent to the opposite of “spiritual intelligence.” To me, it should be “material stupidity”…are you kidding me?
MOD:
So how do you want to change it, Veet Francesco?
(And where does “are you kidding me?” fit into this?)
@MOD
You’re the English teacher…but since you might be offended and uncooperative, for assuming that I accidentally translated (Google) something that exposed me to ridicule, you then deliberately didn’t correct it, finding it an opportunity to snicker with your friends, like some time ago.
If that’s not the case, I apologize.
MOD:
No need to be so suspicious, Veet F, I had no such motivation.
(Btw, ‘are you kidding me?’ means ‘are you telling me an untruth?’, not ‘are you laughing at me?’).
@MOD
“No need to be so suspicious, Veet F, I had no such motivation.”
Mod,
Kavita complimenting me, you not wanting to sneer at me anymore…won’t it be too much for Lokesh all at once?
On the previous page, Veet Francesco said:
“A failure presupposes a goal that wasn’t achieved, like the conclusion of a fairy tale: “and they all lived happily ever after.”
Instead, other things happened after the Ranch, just as they had before the Ranch, yet it seems like failure is only spoken of when referring to the pinnacle of the American experience.
From my perspective, I might consider what happened on that piece of land not a success but even a miracle.”
I don’t consider the Ranch a failure. It left a deep impression in the hearts and minds of all those who contributed to it. It was a very special period of our lives.
Sorry, Nityaprem, now that you quoted my comment I noticed that I wrote the opposite of what I think, I pointed out to the MOD the correction on the previous page: “From my perspective, I might consider what happened on that piece of land not JUST a success but even a miracle.”
The other day, a local woman threw herself off a bridge, and a turbaned man in a green robe was seen hurrying from the scene.
A concerned onlooker turned to me and commented, “There was something fishy about that hombre in the green getup.
“What?” I said. “You suspect foul play?”
“Well,” the onlooker replied, “I just don’t trust those muslim cabrones.”
Nodding to themselves, they continued, “And I’ll tell you another thing. Sometimes the kindest words hide the sharpest intentions.”
I had no idea what they were talking about, so I turned their attention to the woman in the river. “Oh, look, a fisherman has saved her.”
Most of the comments, to be true, are not sharp enough to engage others.
It seems like private communication of two or three people, which creates boredom in readers.
It’s okay, Shantam, don’t feel guilty, the next article you write will definitely be more stimulating.
Thanks, Veet, for inspiring the next article.
This was already in my mind. Most probably it could be a game changer for sannyasnews too. Theme is very simple.
Some guess?
Shantam, do you think comments have to be sharp to attract interest? That is the way of social media, but it feeds discord and unhappiness. The lesson I took from Osho’s discourses is to minimise discord, to encourage, to point the way.
Doing this attracts its own audience. People want some interest, but not all of them are interested in arguments. A little bit of the spiritual way, a few jokes, a few anecdotes will also do.
While reading this book, my eyes get tears, throat gets choked, not for the Human Bhagwan & his management but honest account of one of the disciples who became the scapegoat…
Majority of the people who came to the master were more innocently intelligent than the Gadarwara Clan and so- alled chosen few.
As I see, Rajneeshpuram was one of the darkest phases of human devotion and its merciless exploitation..
Surely truth shines in the end, not the mixture of facts and fictions.
It seems you’ve discovered a smoking gun, Shantam…
You have the honour and the moral authority to use your Sikh knife to slaughter Osho.
Before the execution…a little compassion, please…I remind you that you share the same addiction to beautiful women with the man sentenced to death, even if in your case it resulted in a long withdrawal crisis that continues to this day.
Veet, when you are so articulate to do psychoanalysis, shed some light, what was that helplessness of Rajneesh to become Osho at the dead end of his lifespan cut short by various factors, but surely not some poison in American custody for a few days.
As I know, one can befool some group of people but not the world, cosmic Intelligence, not at all.
Shantam, between the two of us, you seem to be the sophisticated psychoanalyst, the one most convinced of knowing the inner soul of Chandra Mohan Jain Acharya Rajneesh Bhagwan Osho.
For me, the question of his nature remains open, so I don’t know whether the good things that have happened in my life are thanks to Osho or despite Osho. He certainly provided the social and human context in which they occurred.
In this suspension of judgment, you can’t slit my throat if I feel compassion for him and contempt for those who have the same headbanger attitude toward him as you do.
I remember Jane Stork from Poona One. She was an Australian mum and kind of squeaky clean, goody-goody, looking for enlightenment type sannyasin. I might order her book.
I think I have it somewhere, it was on my father’s bookshelf. Haven’t read it yet.
Ms. Stork compared her time as a sannyasin to her time with nuns during her Catholic upbringing — the same blind faith; she even goes so far as to say it’s the same mechanism of belonging that unites criminal gangs.
When asked if her experience with Osho has changed her view of religion, she replies “definitely.”
Then, when pressed by the interviewer and asked if there’s anything good worth saving in religion, she contradicts herself, pausing for a long moment before offering a patronizing reply about her sister finding comfort in doing something good for others.
You don’t have to be a skilled psychoanalyst to interpret such contradictions, expressed in such pauses and with such unspiritual content.
She, too, when questioned about true spiritual intelligence, couldn’t explain why Meera or Papaji is better than that devil Bhagwan.
The commercial wave started by Netflix is running out of steam; hurry up and sell the last of your unsold books before they end up in the landfill of history.
If I’ve lived 62 years without needing the Bible of Guru Nanak or Yahweh, I can do without Jane’s book, although I pity the bad things that happened to her…her problem, I believe, was precisely what she blames her sister for: “She hasn’t travelled the world like me” (almost).
The same naiveté of those with a narrow spiritual vision (intelligence). If her family hadn’t risked falling apart due to her husband’s crisis-malaise, she would never have left her comfort zone, she would never have even felt the need to leave her neighbourhood with its little white church (I have nothing against little white churches and the humanity that inhabits them).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNAkUgif76Y
It seems Shantam has seen something of himself in Jane Stork’s story…
Have to agree with Iqbal here. We delude ourselves when we get a little tickle of energy from people like Osho, either in person or more likely from reading memes on FB. In both cases it is mostly self-pleasuring without much real grounding in higher truth, which always includes compassion for all. Much of Osho’s stuff I consider little more than spiritual pornography, titillating, exciting but masturbatory, concerned with self, with little regard for others.
To(b)y boy, it’s easy to get too high-minded and say Osho wasn’t authentically spiritual.
No one can contradict you unless you first state your parameters.
It’s like someone calling you a true headbanger without mentioning anyone who isn’t.
I’d like to point out that you agree with Shantam, who on this forum is considered a true headbanger by Lokesh, someone who speaks from experience in these matters.
The other day I read an article against Osho, by someone with extensive background and a serious, trustworthy look.
He made a long list of all the limitations of the Master of Masters, until…he peed outside the toilet.
For goodness sake, who doesn’t piss outside the toilet when they’re excited?
But he wasn’t; he was serious, hieratic, pointing out all the urine splashes left by Osho.
Unlike a long list of authentic spiritual masters who never missed their aim: “Gautama the Buddha, Jesus, Antony of Egypt, Atisha, Kobo Daishi, Milarepa, Jnaneshvar, Rumi, Chinul, Dogen, Bankei, Hakuin, John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Moshe Cordovero, the Baal Shem Tov, Seraphim of Sarov (et al.), and widely visited and well documented figures of the modern era like Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Narayana Guru, Hazrat Babajan, Shirdi Sai Baba, Meher Baba, Shaikh al-Alawi, Padre Pio, Swami Gnanananda, Bhagavan Nityananda, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Anandamayi Ma, Anasuya Devi, Hsu Yun, Hsuan Hua, Taungpulu Sayadaw, Ajahn Chah, Songchol Kun Sunim, Daehaeng Kun Sunim, Dhilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, and many other luminaries.”
What?!!! Noticed anything? No Italians here? He included in the list the saint who garners the most blind devotion around here, despite all the well-documented urine splashes.
If this applies to a contemporary of Osho, imagine how popular worship, after centuries, can alter the description of events that accredit or discredit an authentic spiritual master.
To discourage me from continuing to read the long article, it was enough to note the gap between the forensic pathologist’s approach in dividing a hair from Osho’s asshole into four parts, longitudinally, and the ease of issuing a saint’s licence simply because the head of an institution more gossiped about than the English royal family had done the same before him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhs2JhOR2_k
https://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/rajneesh.html
And Veet, do you think it is true what Deeksha claimed in this article, you posted?
See below:
Further testimony from Deeksha comes from other sources, combined in Uday Mehta’s ‘Modern Godmen in India’ (p.121):
“Rajneesh was becoming increasingly violent, coercive and deceitful. She [Deeksha] admitted that, even in Pune, Rajneesh encouraged and permitted ‘everything, including prostitution and even drug dealing, as long as it brought him money. Deeksha claimed she had seen Rajneesh beat Ma Vivek badly.”
Thanks for the question, Satchit. I didn’t think you’d be interested in my perspective.
This testimony was also published in a book released three years after the deaths of the protagonists, referring to events from at least ten years earlier.
This woman appears to have given her worst self during sannyas, and everything she says sounds like a call for complicity, but unlike her accomplices, she is alive and cannot be contradicted, which doesn’t increase sympathy for her.
She doesn’t seem sorry for what happened to her; she describes everything in the same tone, even when she recounts events involving abuse suffered by others. She doesn’t seem sorry for them, nor even angry with the abuser.
If all that remains of that experience with Osho, which still gratifies her today, is that tough approach that for a time made her feel at the centre of the world, I can only feel compassion for her.
First comes disappointment that the ‘great spiritual experience’ hasn’t happened to you.
Then comes cynicism, as a defence against that disappointment which is damaging to the ego.
Then comes the need to drag down everyone who is still on the path by spreading that cynicism, to feed that ego and prove that you are right.
Because the ego loves to be right, that is its bread and butter.
You would do better to let go of the poison and just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram…
“You would do better to let go of the poison and just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram…” Nityaprem
I recently watched videos of interviews with the people of the Ranch, some while Osho was in prison.
What strikes me is the extraordinary focus of the people in answering questions honestly and originally, the furthest thing from a response dictated by a sense of belonging to a community that erases or diminishes the individual dimension.
Even when the images of Osho being interviewed in prison were released, where he expresses the humiliation of his unjust detention, the sannyasins, some in tears, retained the same innocence and focus, allowing the truth of what they were experiencing to emerge, without judgment.
For me, this is a true social miracle; I repeat, I have no proof to say whether it is thanks to or despite Osho, this virtuous example of how a widespread sense of trust can coexist with the utmost critical thinking.
“Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?” T. S. Eliot (a genuine, post-World War I anguish that found relief in the name of the (Anglican) father).
The existential vision proposed by Osho, despite its superficial contradictions, cannot be trivialized by abstracting it from the effects of its application, which are still found today in contexts dedicated to the Master’s vision.
While aspects of spiritual growth are difficult to objectively assess, social ones can be assessed starting from evolved forms of coexistence measurable in terms of widespread joy, freedom, creativity, autonomy, and attention to aesthetic, gastronomic, architectural, therapeutic, and technological details functional to collective well-being.
Perhaps Sam is right: the real obstacle to the miracle of an eternal, trustful, and rebellious adolescence of the heart is the presence of a Master with a solid, coherent, and virtuous existential anecdote from which to draw an ethical compass for future generations, a potential source of misunderstanding regarding the model for conferring spiritual meaning and value.
Having an external model of a Master — aesthetically bizarre, philosophically contradictory, and ethically questionable — allows us to come to terms with our own vulnerability and solitude.
How can we nurture the spiritual seeds that, against all odds, we have received as a gift from a space of surrender, in communion with our Inner Master, evoked “in the presence” (initiatory) of Osho, the Master of (external) Masters?
Part of the process for me is observing how easy it is at times to give in to the cynicism that would save me from being judged as naive, stupid, a dreamer…in the name of Love, not of the Father.
And yet, like the fragrance of roses, against 93 Rolls Royces full of bizarre reasons, that sense of fresh breeze, like the first childish wonder, still deeply gladdens my soul, the thing that most inspires me to love life and humanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieTinz7xtJQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A8NgPVizP4
Yes, it puts me in mind of this photo
By chance today I came across this short video of Eckhart Tolle that deals with the source of compassion for others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYG2uyZii6A
Satyadeva, perhaps it’s no coincidence that you posted this link at this very point in the debate, where we were wondering which ego is a vehicle of compassion and which is a vehicle of existential failure-cynicism.
E. Tolle’s limitation, imv, is that he never uses a club, not even when he meets a headbanger.
For him, everything boils down to a technique-skill of observing reality as it is, as if awareness of one’s emotions implies knowing how to manage them, or that feeling empathy implies compassion.
Too intellectual for my intellectual tastes; rather than surrendering, he invites me to a pub over a beer to discuss human nature.
Much more authentic (than Tolle), in his cognitive dissonance, after having seen the dark side of Osho according to the mind-formatting industry, is Mr. Joe Rogan (I hope someone will be kind enough to send him the PDF of ‘Life of Osho’ by Sam Paritosh).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stiQTJuJNF8
I found the video of Eckhart Tolle talking about compassion a pleasant interlude, I always thought Tolle was a very sane person in that he always presents more or less the same face. He can therefore be said to have a specific teaching.
Osho on the other hand can be quite changeable according to whose question he is answering, he isn’t anything like as consistent as Tolle. He doesn’t fit neatly into categories, and defies being typed. But if you take the time to read enough of his talks you will find areas which resonate with you and where he appears to be talking to you…
NP declares, “The ego loves to be right, that is its bread and butter.”
That is correct.
Which raises the question, who or what do you believe is responsible for writing the above comment? If it is not the ego, do you imagine it is something beyond or above the ego that is doing the writing? Who determines this?
It just came as an impulse out of nowhere, Lokesh. I was just functioning as a translator….
Nityaprem, I wonder why, among so many “egos” on this forum, Lokesh always targets yours.
How does he determine, as in this case, that To(b)y boy speaks out of compassion while you are far from any spiritual perspective?
How does he sound like someone convinced he’s right?
Perhaps what you say about the ego’s bulimia is true. From his teacher, Lokesh became fond of not only fried vegetables but also bread and butter.
By the way, it’s well known that in Advaita culture, after realizing union with the universal soul, “the sense of individuality (Ahamkara) does not necessarily disappear, but is radically transformed. It no longer identifies the subject with the body-mind, but remains as an “empty shell” or a useful tool for acting in the world, comparable to a burned seed that can no longer germinate.”
The ego is therefore a problem if it creates suffering and not if it is a tool to invite people to see specific causes of suffering, as you, NP, have done with the cynicism that is intended to hide disappointment.
OK, NP, no problem. Thanks for your response.
Lokesh, old chum, somehow I don’t think it was the response you were looking for… maybe I wasn’t being as smart as you expected, or Scots thinking and Dutch thinking were clashing. Nevermind.
It’s hard to stop making assumptions because it’s our habit to assume. When we make assumptions, we believe they are the truth. We assume we know what other people think or feel, when in fact we do not.
“So I am saying everything that has not been said. Laughter has been completely avoided, because it seemed that it destroyed your seriousness. And all the masters of the past wanted you to be serious about your search. They misunderstood one thing, that sincerity about the search is one thing, and seriousness about the search is not the same thing. I want you to be sincere and authentic about your search – not only about your search, but about everything, because you cannot be sincere only in one dimension. If you are sincere, then all dimensions of your life are sincere.
But seriousness has been misunderstood as sincerity. Seriousness is a sickness. A serious seeker is searching for truth with sadness, with a burden on his head. He is not interested in the pilgrimage. He is only interested in the end, the goal, the paradise, the heaven, whatever name has been chosen by the master. My own understanding is: there is no heaven, and there is no paradise, there is no goal. Life is an eternal pilgrimage.
Now, making people serious is making them sick for eternity. They will lose all joy, they will shrink, all their juice will be gone. They will not see the beauty of the path and the trees and the mountains that they will be passing through, because seriousness does not allow these things. Seriousness condemns all this as mundane.
To me, there is no division like mundane and sacred. It is one universe. There are not two universes. Yes, the same universe you can look at in a mundane way, you can look at in a sacred way. The distinction is not between two universes, the distinction is only in two outlooks. And my feeling is, the more joyous you are, the more full of juice, love, laughter, music and dance, the more your journey will become a tremendously beautiful pilgrimage.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
“In a society which has been at war with itself and others for thousands of years, as an educationalist and as a human being, I began to despair of any solution to the perennial problems of war; poverty, hunger and man’s inhumanity to man. For the first time in my life, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh’s teachings and lifestyle has given me a glimmer of hope for mankind, not as an ideal, but as a definite practical solution to the world’s ills.
However, all great findings need the correct ambience to successfully flower and that’s my hope that Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh may be able to continue his work in the United States, a country renowned for its nurturing of the pioneer thought and the pioneer spirit, in religion, education and technology. This would be of incalculable benefit, not only to Americans, but the rest of mankind.”
Sw Premartha (1983, to support Osho’s attempt to obtain permanent resident status in the US)
Perhaps a different generation of sannyasins, compared to the founders and commentators on this forum, perhaps born in the 1930s or 1940s, recognized Osho’s spiritual intelligence, in his pioneering work, to contribute to creating the conditions for a joyful coexistence for humanity.
https://www.sannyas.wiki/index.php?title=Testimonial_letter_from_Sw_Premartha
Interesting to see Premartha’s letter, Veet F, I didn’t have any idea he had worked for such a long time for the BBC.
Nityaprem, I don’t know if I could have met this Premartha, perhaps by singing with him at the Smoking Temple in Pune, the large one near the main gate road, coming from German Bakery on the right side.
It doesn’t seem like he was a forum commentator.
The Premartha I’ve held in my heart for 30 years is a compatriot of yours.
https://www.oshonews.com/2023/06/09/anand-premartha/
“Identical twin brothers Hamish and Gordon lived in the same town. Hamish was married but Gordon was single and used to have an old rowboat.
It happens that Hamish’s wife dies on the same day that Gordon’s boat sinks.
The minister’s wife meets Gordon in the street and, mistaking him for Hamish, says, “I am very sorry to hear about your great loss.”
“Ah,” says Gordon, “I’m not sorry a bit. She was a rotten old thing from the start. Her bottom was all chewed up. The first time I got into her she made water faster than anything I have ever seen. She had a big crack and a big hole at the front, which just got bigger every time I used her. Then the other day, four guys came around looking for a good time and they asked if they could rent her. Well, the crazy fools all tried to get into her at the same time, and she cracked right up the middle.”
The minister’s wife collapsed.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
“What is the need? I cannot understand why the weather vane should want to know how the wind blows. Can you figure it out? Is there any need? Do these trees know where the wind is blowing? Do the stars know? Except man nothing in this whole existence is reluctant to go with existence. That’s why everything is happy, blissful. They don’t have riches; what do these poor trees have? But they have spontaneity. When the wind blows they dance, when it does not blow they rest. Both are equally acceptable.
A tremendous trust exists between the earth, the sky, the wind, the sun. When the sun starts rising in the morning, the trees wake up. They don’t need any alarm clock. And when the sun sets, they all start going to sleep. As the sun sets, the birds start coming back to their nests – it is time to rest. Nobody teaches them to go early to bed. Nobody teaches them…in the morning as the sun is rising they all wake up, start singing, making sounds of joy, rejoicing, welcoming another day.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
Nityaprem,
This post is for you. During my decades-long living in Germany, I have never seen more loving, balanced, peaceful human beings as in Jehovah’s Witnesses!
The way they quote Quotations from The Bible and try their level best to follow the teachings, I feel miles-long books of Indian gurus are not needed.
Yes, they are needed too for someone like you, those who are Osho The Witness…
Surely, such people are also very loving and pacifist in their approach.
Well, to be compared to a Jehovah’s Witness isn’t exactly a compliment in my book, my experiences with them weren’t positive. What’s more I don’t seek to convert people — if there is any place where you can post an Osho quote, it’s surely on a site called SannyasNews, where interested people may gather.
I’m not a fanatic or a missionary, at most I believe Osho still has gifts to give to the world. He dealt knocks to institutions that needed knocking, and set many other people on the spiritual path.
Nityaprem,
This post is for you. During my decades-long living in Punjab, I have never seen more loving, balanced, peaceful human beings as in Sikhism!
The way they quote Quotations from The Adi Granth Bible and try their level best to follow the teachings, I feel miles-long books of Christian saints are not needed.
Yes, they are needed too for someone like you, those who love books more than fitness…
Surely, such people are also very loving and pacifist in their approach.
The thing is, if you love fitness more than books you become very driven. I went through a phase where I did a lot of fitness, in the gym three times a week after a nine-to-five job, and in the end it didn’t do me much good.
“The sun starts rising in the morning after listening to the Cock´s first call at 04.30.”
Must be an ancient saying!
It seems we all lean upon pillars of wisdom…at a certain point in life, sooner or later we go looking for those who are wiser than ourselves. We end up on YouTube or in a spiritual bookshop, checking out those who have put themselves out there to be seen, looking for a living person who can show us the way.
Whether you believe in the Buddha’s teachings on the Noble Eightfold Path, or in Osho’s talks on meditation and relaxation, or in Eckhart Tolle’s writings on the ego and the pain-body and consciousness, the longing is the same. It is the mystery of a conscious existence, that which we feel but which we cannot put into words. What is the colour green, or the fragrance of a rose? It is just as ungraspable.
It is only when we learn to see that we live in a dream, that the mind surrounds us like a thick London pea-souper, that we begin to learn about our own nature.
Yeah, ego enjoys words like “pillars of wisdom”.
Basically you find a mirror.
And what do you see in the mirror?
The peace of your true self, something very familiar.
Truly blessed are the ones who are fair, good, intelligent, without any influence of self-certified Sadgurus; copycat Enlighteneds.
As I see, God is good – one ‘o’ less.
Goodness and God (Cosmic Wisdom) are enough. Age of Indian Guru Industry is over. Thank God.
MOD:
“God is good one ‘o’ less” – What does this mean, Shantam?
God is good with one ‘o’ less.
It is word game:
‘Good’ has double ‘o’, ‘God’ has one.
The deleted ‘o’ finds or steals another ‘o’ & becomes ‘Osho’!
Remember to drink enough water during this warm weather, while playing your game of ‘o’…
There are plenty of homegrown copycat enlightened out there, we do not need to import them from India.
Many times it feels we have not only over-population of humans in India but also over-population of self-proclaimed Gods & also a few self-proclaimed No Gods, not only in India but also the rest of the world!
Though O – shsh – O is more accurate, O = infinity & shsh = silence!
Just the last few weeks I have been coming across unexpected moments of real joyousness, jokes and fragments of books that have struck me as unexpectedly and deeply funny, that just made me roar with laughter.
I have been meeting myself on the road, and finding that my inner nature takes pleasure in dollops of levity. Listening to a podcast about P.G. Wodehouse’s book ‘The Code of the Woosters’ induced much laughter, giving a more lighthearted cast to the world.
Osho too in characteristic fashion says, I teach nothing except witnessing and then goes on to tell a series of jokes, showing that he does indeed teach a more joyous way of looking at things as well.
I agree, Nityaprem, someone like him is a true enemy of those who invest, in an organized way, in anguish and fear, but I don’t think Osho selected what to watch, as you do, with a podcast blasting in his ears. In fact, when you listened to Dragon Lady or the testimonies of the cult children, you seemed emotionally connected enough to those egregores* to see the Master as a dark, evil, and not at all joyful entity.
Joyful laughter is possible even amidst the social ruins of a pandemic organized in a military biolaboratory on the border with Russia or amidst the ruins of Gaza; the important thing is that it’s not a clumsy attempt to bypass reality.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore
The negative talkers did cause me to become angry at Osho, mostly because he allowed certain things to happen or didn’t conform to my image of the perfect guru. But that is of course silliness, expecting someone else to conform to your vision is totally futile. At some level by doing that you are making a judgment that someone should be like this, which is foolishness.
It is better to just accept people as they are, which may include a few flaws, and if you feel a connection see what you can learn from them. Now Osho is not the perfect exemplar, there are areas where he and I differ enormously in our views. But there are instances where he still illuminates me, his jokes shake me up, his insight still occasionally surprises me.
I think Osho was right to say that to feel is more important than to think. Thinking is coloured by culture, media, your conditioning, the opinion of others, many things. But the heart sees true, and the look of Osho’s eyes tell me he meant only good things for those who came to partake of his wisdom.
Gurus in general are the perfect screens for people to project their ideas, fantasies, love, aspirations and a whole lot of other things onto, not all of them healthy for sure. Big-shot gurus are hard to get to know on a personal level, and therefore, seekers in the back row are left in the dark as to the true nature of who a famous guru really is.
A guru with a beard and hypnotic eyes, or maybe an austere shaved head and a soothing voice that delivers all the seemingly correct answers, might appear benevolent and enlightened, but behind the stage presence often lurks someone with questionable moral values. Behind the velvet curtains, they are lusting after fame, fortune, power, attractive women, and in certain cases, young boys etc. Uncorrupted gurus are like true love…hard to find.
It is said that a true seeker can learn even from a shit guru. I suppose there is truth in that, but better if one hooks up with one of those rare bona fide teachers and save yourself some trouble. It is also said that the real teacher resides within us and will connect us with an external guru who will, hopefully, make us aware of the inner guru, who is ultimately who we really are. It appears the world is in you, not the other way around.
Meditation is very important. How do you know if your meditation practice is working? You will not think so much.
When I read the content of most of the comments on SN these days, I see that those comments are a product of busy minds, overflowing with thought. It would be easy for me to get into exposing that, but that in itself is a form of ego trip I no longer feel comfortable indulging in….well, at least most days. It is so basic, predictable and uninspiring, and as I said, too easy, especially when dealing with kindergarten seekers who think they are close to enlightenment and all that bullshit.
What to do? Sitting silently and doing absolutely nothing is certainly beneficial on many levels.
I really enjoy indulging in the ego trip of exposing the limitations of a busy mind like Lokesh’s. It’s very easy for me to see how his stream of thoughts is the result of an overflowing ego, always preoccupied with self-celebration.
Lokesh, after a premise of agreeable things about the Inner-Outer Master, was absorbed by the egregore of his original community, stepping into the usual role of self-proclaimed father of Osho’s young and naive orphans.
Alluding to the moral corruption of a guru like Osho, he argued that only seekers like him who weren’t in the “back row” could have noticed all the things that were going on behind the scenes, regarding sex, drugs, and RR’s.
The problem is that the “morally questionable” things Lokesh alluded to about Osho didn’t happen when Lokesh was in the front row and close to the Master, but when Osho was thousands of miles away: It wasn’t Lokesh who distanced himself from the corrupt Master, but rather the beloved Master who distanced himself from the then-trusting disciple.
I wonder if Lokesh will apply to himself one of the criteria he loves to share with young, naive sannyasins: learning to shut up about the dark and distant events of the Ranch, when he sat in the very back row, facing another guru, and opening his heart to share the reasons for his love for the Master, when he was so close he could embrace him.
What will Lokesh’s ego choose?
Was he naive when he loved the corrupt Master, or a slanderer today of facts never seen, not even from the last back row, and therefore should he shut up?
Lokesh, when old age sneaks up on you, there are two things you can do. You can become a cynic, someone who hasn’t found what they are looking for and is therefore convinced it doesn’t exist, or you can become a child again, a real kindergarten seeker but this time purified of rubbish. It’s up to you.
The first is a path of knowledge, of rejection, of negativity. It’s the way of an older man soured in juices of ego and mind, who wants to bring that sourness to others by occasionally spitting a stream of venom. The second is a path of let-go, releasing all those things that keep you tied down and by letting go just getting lighter and lighter… I know which I would choose.
In a way, society ties us down with all the things we are supposed to have and look after. That too is a process of letting go, because when we leave this world we go as naked as when we came in.
“Young Ruthie, the daughter of Hymie Goldberg, is watching her mother Becky as she tries on her new fur coat.
”Mum,” she says in disgust, ”do you realize how much a poor, dumb animal had to suffer, so you could have that coat?”
”Ruthie,” snaps Becky angrily, ”how dare you talk about your father like that.” ”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
Even though I don’t agree at all nor relate to what Veet says now…nevertheless I’m amazed how his mind can conjure such judgements!
Thank whosoever for not having met him in person ever!
Ready for his judgements about my comment, waiting in anticipation (smile)….
NP, sometimes copy/pastecan be boring; wondering if everything gets boring sometime, no one is an exception, not even me!
Kavita, don’t be surprised by how my mind works, but rather by how someone taught me not to let my mind use me (even if during a soccer game, the competitive trance can make me lose the detachment needed to see what’s there).
Don’t worry, I don’t have much to tell you. I’ve never met you. Maybe I don’t have anyone to thank for that; it’s because you’re not open to dialogue, like Lokesh, who prefers his inconsistent monologues about what the truth is.
You, too, love your idea of truth more than the men and women united by love in that search.
“you’re not open to dialogue, like Lokesh, who prefers his inconsistent monologues about what the truth is.”
Now, I am wondering if truth can be consistent! & to you, does only responding to anyone actively (typing) = to respond? & does silence have any significance to you?
“Kavita, don’t be surprised by how my mind works, but rather by how someone taught me not to let my mind use me.”
&
“You, too, love your idea of truth more than the men and women united by love in that search.”
Probably the same entity who taught you indicated to look at the moon & not the finger pointing towards it.
Kavita, don’t play the game of the apprentice philosopher-sophist. I’m not interested in outdoing you and your hero on this matter by abstracting the word “truth” from its context.
I was responding to Lokesh about the Master’s dirty finger, as if it were an established fact, to undermine the value of the things he pointed out. This is the context we should give, in this case, to “truth”.
Your and his rejection of the dialectical process, both regarding the Master’s dirty finger and the syllogism that, again according to you two, undermines his teaching, strikes me as highly arrogant.
Veet, you are always playing a supposed expert psychoanalyst, I am not interested in outdoing you or anybody – period.
About “I was responding to Lokesh about the Master’s dirty finger, as if it were an established fact, to undermine the value of the things he pointed out. This is the context we should give, in this case, to “truth””: btw, I was responding to ”you’re not open to dialogue, like Lokesh, who prefers his inconsistent monologues about what the truth is.”
Anyway, I am certain we are on different tangents; yes, probably, tangents do meet at some point!
Kavita, I will try and find some really boring quotes for you! But not today because it’s too warm to do anything much…
NP, luckily yesterday it rained here in Poona, so I can take anyone’s boring quotes today
The monsoon is arriving? I’ve been using my Weather app on my iPhone to track what the temperatures have been like and it has been unbearably hot in Varanasi I saw, it’s still 40 degrees C there and they are not expecting rain until a week from today…
Talking about the weather is one of the most common conversations in English — and one of the easiest ways to start a friendly chat with anyone on SN. Whether you are meeting a blogmate, chatting with a troll, or making small talk down at the opium den, weather is a topic that everyone can relate to. Yes, this is the truth. Knowing the right phrases makes these conversations feel natural and Zen.
In this free conversation Kavita and NP meet casually and talk about the weather, their feelings about the rainy season in India, and their preference for cyclones and bhang lassi. You will practise how to comment on the weather using simple, natural phrases, ask someone if they like a type of weather, respond to weather comments in a friendly and casual way, and use popular expressions like “The monsoon is arriving” and “It rained here in Poona” that native speakers use every day.
This is one of the best conversations for absolute beginners because the vocabulary is simple, the topic is familiar, and the situation happens every single day. NP or Kavita, read the lines out loud, and practise until it feels loose and natural — you will be ready to talk about the weather in English with anyone, even homophobic gay Italian truck drivers.
Don’t provoke me, you angry old Scots Jew in andropause. If you have no arguments, shut up.
If you misjudge people, completely or partially, you could find yourself with a truck driver in your home, one who delivers throughout Europe, including the islands, and be forced to witness the therapeutic effect Latin charm can have on your wife…I don’t want tips, don’t worry.
Lokie, that’s nice of you to have got some time with us now, before going for a swim on a hot summer afternoon in Ibiza!
Hi Kavita,
Coincidentally enough, I just returned from a swim. Coolest I will feel on this 37 degrees day. Still, life is good.
As for me, even though life is good…trying to get back some courage now to cope with plateau city life, after coming back from eleven weeks or so of mountain village life.
I happen to be interested in the weather in India.
I’ve been wondering for a while about the effect of weather on civilisation. You have no tradition of Sannyas in Europe, is that because abandoning one’s home in winter is very unwise when it snows and freezes?
Certainly, living outside like some people do in India isn’t really an option in Northern Europe in winter.
NP, just sharing, even though I am Indian by birth I had no real idea/knowledge of the word ‘Sannyas’ till I came to Poona in Feb ’90 , taking sannyas in April ’90, although of course I had read in school history books about Buddha’s journey.
My paternal side were not traditional or religious (except for my paternal grandmother, she was more of a liberal though), other half were Theosophists &then became friends of J.Krishnamurti,
so I didn’t really have any religious conditioning. Since we lived in Bombay, in a cosmopolitan locality, we visited friends during their religious festivities, our families would have probably just celebrated births & marriages in our home.
I was at Gangotri/Himalayas, by chance, while staying in Dehradoon, in Sw. Narendra Saraswati’s Commune in summer of 2000 and during my long stay there I met an Indian couple, Dipti & Ashok, Dipti was an old colleague from the Poona Commune, Audio Department in Omar Khyam, and they asked me if I would like to travel with them in their vehicle, which I did.
It was the first time I met a few traditional sannyasins in the Himalayas, the first time I came to know that there are these solo meditators who live here, even in the winter, with hardly any clothes on their body, with as good as no possessions & they have left their family & have been living this ascetic life, till they die .
Anyway, coming to your point, don’t think here too it’s an option to live in the open in Northern India, I am sure you may know this, that India too has snow-capped mountains like Northern Europe! Guess the weather everywhere on Earth has always been changing for millennia.
Certainly there is a tradition of Sannyas in Europe, NP.
There have been many hermits.
And many people did abandon their family and enter a monastery in search for God.
Thanks, Kavita! It is nice to hear a little about your travels in India, and your background. India is an amazing country…
My father and his girlfriend travelled to Nepal to see the Himalayas back in 2016, but I didn’t go with them. I just heard the stories about monasteries and a cave where Padmasambhava had meditated and the walks near Pokhara…
The last time I was in India was in 1997, visiting the Meditation Resort in Poona. I stayed in a little flat by the river, near the burning ghats, it was an adventure.
Oh well, as Granny Macguffin used to say, “I’ll tell you this, a wee spark of truth can burn up a great big mountain of lies.”
Or as grandfather Macwinkel was oft heard to say, “De knuppel in het hoenderhok gooien.”
I didn’t know grandfather Macwinkel had a bit of Dutch in him.
“The mind creates questions. They may look very relevant and rational, but they are against experience, against existence. And because the whole world is communicating with each other only through the mind, nobody raises his voice against such questions, that they are basically wrong.
And it has to be understood that logic is man-manufactured. It does not grow in the fields. It is not like the mountains and the stars and babies. It is simply a mind projection. And it has dominated humanity for centuries. It has destroyed many valuable possibilities, potentialities. It has closed many doors to the mysteries of life. It has made man almost blind to light, to consciousness, to bliss, to truth.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
I enjoyed this piece about when Tamo-san came to visit Osho, and the author’s visit to her home in Japan…
https://www.oshonews.com/2026/06/19/meeting-tamo-san/
There are many beautiful people in the world, and existence does take care of them.
Aye, well, as Granny Macgruel used to say in the good auld days on the Isle of Lewis, “If you try to destroy someone’s reputation with lies and contrived propaganda, remember this: every false word creates a debt. Sooner or later, truth collects its payment and will bite you in the arse.”
Aye, as time shows, Granny Macgruel’s words still ring true today.
“Three women die and arrive at the Pearly Gates, where they are met by Saint Peter. ”Did you avoid sex on the earth?” he asks the first lady.
”I absolutely avoided it,” she replies.
”Very good,” says Peter. ”Here is a golden key, it will open the doors of paradise.”
Then he turns to the second woman and asks, ”What about you?”
”Well,” she replies, ”about half and half.”
”Okay,” says Peter. ”Here is a silver key, it will open the doors of purgatory.”
Then he asks the third woman, ”What about you?”
”Me?” she replies. ”I did all the things you can imagine and also many things you can’t imagine!”
”Great!” says Peter. ”Here is the key to my room, I’ll be coming there in a minute.””
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
The thing about Osho jokes is that most of them, like the above, were not that funny.
What was extremely funny about those jokes was who was telling them.
Imagine serious seekers sitting in a discourse and Osho delivers the above joke. That is ridiculously funny. Particularly in this instance, because the joke is so corny.
Now that Osho has left this world and is no longer here to deliver his jokes personally, to copy and paste one of his shit jokes on this site is, to me, not in the least bit funny, and I do appreciate a good joke. This is not one of them.
Pff, you’re being overly harsh. It’s a vaguely amusing joke, which is good enough. Anyway, we don’t post enough jokes on here…
Perhaps, Lokesh, you should apply yourself to learning to write comedy. Try your hand at a Scottish play, maybe.
NP, I am not interested in your advice or suggestions. Mind your own business.
That’s too bad, I am full of spiffing good ideas these days!
It’s interesting, how being in tune with a guru has gone out of style since the 1970’s. I’d suspect a long anti-cult campaign by the mainstream media has made people suspicious of new religious movements, and social pressure has convinced people that what they are saying must be right.
The point of contact for many people new to Osho seems to now be the books, or perhaps the ‘Wild, Wild Country’ documentary on Netflix. But to go from there to considering yourself a sannyasin is a rather large jump, I bet there are a lot more people who read the books than who go to a Osho centre even.
So if you have felt something reading his words, perhaps a connection to his eyes in a photograph, where do you go from there? There are still people who give sannyas or run the meditations or the occasional festival. It just requires a bit of looking to find opportunities to celebrate Osho these days.
Really, NP, anyone might suspect you were brainwashed by Mum and Dad in the good auld days to believe there is no life worth living without Osho in it. Now your dad has gone and Mum dumped her Osho books in the rubbish, you have moved on to brainwashing yourself by reading Osho books, copy-and-pasting Osho quotes on Sannyas News and eating popcorn while watching Osho vids.
Anyway, why would one need opportunities to celebrate Osho? Why not simply celebrate, if you believe celebration is the way? What’s stopping you? It’s all in your mind.
NP, I was joking. That is what you get when I apply myself to comedy.
Aha, the rapier of the Scotsman’s dry wit strikes again…
Aye, full speed ahead, Captain Dullard. Your photon condenser tube might explode, but I think the engines will hold if we don’t enter warp factor eight. Bendova says there is a Klingon ship in this quadrant of the multiverse. Switch phasers to stun! You can use logic to justify almost anything. That’s its power. And its flaw. Let’s make sure history never forgets the name ‘Sannyas News’.
Get ready to repel a Klingon attack!
Not all spiritual intelligence seems to be directed toward the good of humanity, pursuing peace, harmony, beauty, justice, love…
If there are and have been Masters who have made spiritual knowledge accessible, enabling us to free ourselves from the pain of ignorance, upon which the power of religious institutions (often at the service of sovereign secular institutions) was founded, then what is the true purpose of secret societies that select their followers to share esoteric knowledge under the bond of secrecy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5b75Mw7V8
P.S:
For non-Italians:
While you read the automatic translation, listen to Professor Mauro Belardi. For example, at 6:30, it seems to me he says “essoteriche favole” and not “esoteriche favole” as translated below. It would also make no sense to speak of the “esoteric content” of a popular work by M. Blavatsky in a context that criticizes the secrecy of spiritual knowledge.
Other errors include, in 2-3 cases, “16th century” translated as “10th century” and “gnostico” translated as “agnostic.”
Also pay attention to the titles of the books cited and the names of the authors.
In any case, if there are any poorly translated words that hinder understanding, just ask.
P.P.S:
In Philosophy and Theology Gnostic, the Ilici, Psychic and Pneumatics represent the tripartition of humanity based on the nature of the soul and its bond with the divine.
The subdivision is divided into:Ilici (from Hyle, matter/earth): They are the individuals totally dominated by the body and material instincts. Being bound to the sensible world, they are considered incapable of salvation and destined for annihilation.
Psychic (from psyché, soul): They represent the middle way, that is, people with intellect and free will. They can choose between good and evil, and through faith they can get a limited form of salvation.
Pneumatics (da pneuma, spirit): They represent the pinnacle of spiritual evolution. They possess an inner divine spark, comprehend supreme knowledge (gnosis), and are the only ones destined to return to the spiritual realm.
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Kavita, the “Lokesh truth” you persist in defending is based on a monologue that first asserts a verifiable criterion (being in the front row with respect to the facts; for him, the events in Pune were those of a disciple who loved his Master) and then disregards it (Lokesh wasn’t at the Ranch to be able to claim that Osho was a horny drug addict).
There’s no need to invoke Socrates or Freud to decide the irrelevance of your contribution, other than to convey your solidarity to Lokesh and direct your hostility toward whoever you believe is behind my comments.
You simply had to share your direct experience to avoid the chicken coop effect of an Indian Beauty Parlour.
Otherwise, one might deduce:
1) that you were a direct (front row) witness to the things Lokesh alludes to but you don’t want to/can’t talk about them;
2) that you missed an opportunity to shut up.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lZ5Cb4wY1NM
Nityaprem, isn’t it endearingly funny how our old friend tries to save the wrinkled hide of his ego by crawling from one topic to another?
He was cornered by his accusations of corruption against Osho that before drowning under the weight of such bullshit weighing down his bighead, eagerly clung to your lifebelt of changing the topic, which you had so mercifully thrown him before Kavita’s lifeboat pulled him out of the mess he’d gotten himself into.
So now, as is typical of those who have invested too much in their public image, instead of thanking you, after insulting and excluding me from the climate conversation, instead of thanking you, he shuts you up as a sign of avoidance syndrome: I didn’t risk drowning and I didn’t need your lifebelt.
Well, now that we’ve finished talking about the climate, let’s hear what our ego-hero has to say about the accusations of corruption he keeps making against Osho, even though he wasn’t even sitting in the back row.
Let’s see with what spiritual intelligence the cynical Scot continues to express trust in his obese master and slander Osho and his grateful disciples.
Yet the same rumours about sex could be framed in the context of Papaji and his direct heirs, like Moonji.
At least in the context of Osho, the lineage issue isn’t so emphasized.
Yes, Veet F, there is a bit of back and forth, and I don’t really like it when things get negative. I often just refrain from commenting, in order not to fan the flames of conflict, but sometimes I am tempted to say a few words.