Within years AI has become the household name, Artificial Intelligence is so real, it has the capacity to change human behaviour and interactions for good or bad or both ways.
To be honest, I have no contribution in the development of this scientific breakthrough, though I have a bachelor’s degree in mathematics and economics.
During my college years, my maths professor, to whom I was also going for private tutoring, mentioned, he has never seen someone suffering so much in maths class, more than me. He suggests that I study something else, more poetic. He sees in me a poet, writer and a philosopher but not an engineer or a technocrat.
Because of my inner reality and life experiences, I don´t hesitate to say, I have developed some capacity, one can say, Spiritual Intelligence. Yes, it is nothing extraordinary nor rocket science.
Keeping this in mind, let me say very clearly, Neo-Sannyas created the lab for Artificial Spiritual Intelligence (ASI)..
What is the foremost symptom of ASI? Going on quoting philosophers and mystics of the last century.
Fact is there is so much discrepancy between the walk and talk of star spiritualists, most probably they died with intact delusions.
One can see, their work has lost most of the real life meaning and impact.
Whether AI or ASI, both are leaving the inner sensibilities dry and juiceless. It is no wonder, in spite of all the prosperity, humans are feeling like existential orphans holding a survival stick called Mobile. We as a human collectives are living not on emotional connections but social media.
Even on this site, how many have got the chance to meet face to face and have a coffee or a beer?
Years ago, with my younger son, we spent just a few hours with Lokesh. They were Real, not artificial.
If I dream about a meeting place of friends, it is not to play a guru selling artificial wisdom but a space where spiritual intelligence is cultivated in one’s own heart and shared with others.
In my heart of hearts, I imagine a world better than the 20th or 21st century till now . Hopefully, evolution will take care.
Humanity does not need self-certified Enlightened but wise people next door.
PS:
In spiritual Intelligence, communication and dialogue are very important. There is always scope for correction and refinement.
I have read this article right through twice. I am unsure what it is all about. It is simply unclear on that level. It is viewed as quite standard for a writer to draw their conclusion in the last paragraph. In this case that is, “Humanity does not need self-certified Enlightened but wise people next door.” Erm…okay, Shantam, anything you say.
Shantam claims that, during his college years, his maths professor viewed him as a poet, writer and a philosopher but not an engineer or a technocrat. Perhaps this conclusion came from an algebra equation that was still in the experimental stage and needed a few kinks ironed out. I say this because I do not in the least view Shantam as a poet, philosopher or writer, particularly not the latter.
The reader is left with a reminder that “In spiritual Intelligence, communication and dialogue are very important. There is always scope for correction and refinement.”
A bit of a generalism, but in Shantam’s case this certainly rings true.
Even though the article does not make a lot of sense, I enjoyed it. Shantam’s maths professor missed the obvious. Shantam is a comedian.
Are the fellow commentators contemplating over the contents of this article?
If there is no readymade quotation about AI or ASI from the literature of last century, one can create a few.
Shantam, I waited a couple of days to reflect on what Lokesh wrote, who knows you best here.
Not knowing you, I don’t know if the irony I perceive in your post includes you as well, or if the core of your argument is serious, that is, not self-deprecating.
You apparently invite members of the neo-sannyasin movement to leave the ASI lab and meet people in person, people you know only thanks to this lab, which exists thanks to the vast spiritual science produced by a scientist you accuse of not having applied it to his own life.
Since your professor saw you as more of a poet than a mathematician, and since logical reasoning is a resource in an artificial intelligence lab, if you’re not being ironic, then I don’t understand the point of you entering a lab every day for 15 years, unless you, in such a lab, only went in to hand out samosas to the scientists during chai breaks, also finding time to recite some of your poems.
Since your poetry often focuses on the life and science to which the laboratory is dedicated, denouncing flaws in the management (not only financial) of the central hub, this may preclude the scientists from accepting your invitation to leave the laboratory and share real emotions with you…
Lokesh did so, and he preferred the man behind the poet. This means that before accepting the date with you, your poetry, at least in your intentions, must have struck a chord with him, but this is not the case with me.
In my opinion, if you want your invitation to be heard, you should first provide some clues about the man’s path, because this isn’t immediately clear from your poetry.
One might meet you and, as you say, be left with the delusions intact.
Sw. Veet fFrancesco, is there anyone on this site who knows you?
Are you on facebook or insta with your real face and identity?
One of the main symptoms of Artificial Spiritual Intelligence is to remain hidden in the veil of anonymity or create fictitous names.
All the sannyas names are fictitous.
The name change experiment has produced artifical personalites.
Usually, Shantam, you don’t meet Osho’s people through Facebook (I don’t have any social media platforms of that kind; I was one of the last to buy a mobile phone with internet, and only because the company where I worked communicated via WhatsApp) but through communes and meditation centres of the Master of Masters.
If you want, meet me there.
These are very violent times, full of people full of Zionist, Nazi, fundamentalist, pro-vaccination propaganda, etc. Even in civilized Holland, you could be welcomed by the same assholes seen in action in the USA, Israel, Portugal, Germany…
I don’t know how you absorb the mainstream narrative, but I prefer not to risk it; I’m a bit reactive myself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfZOfQr3hOM
Putting the ‘artificial’ in front of ‘spiritual intelligence’ seems like a thinly veiled piece of marketing gibberish, if you ask me, Shantam.
I think whatever spiritual intelligence sannyasins acquired, it owes much to Osho’s understanding and listening to his discourses. We don’t want to fall into the role of parrots, but we stand on the shoulders of a giant…
In a way, our education early in life was an attempt by society at brainwashing. I too received the ‘benefits’ of a university education (a bachelors in engineering) and found it to be of only slight use in later life. If you ask me what would I have liked to have done in hindsight, perhaps English literature. Something touching on the subject of life, not technology.
“Culture is not your friend. Culture is for other peoples’ convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes, what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you. It disempowers you. It uses and abuses you. None of us are well-treated by culture.”
( Terence McKenna )
“I think whatever spiritual intelligence sannyasins acquired, it owes much to Osho’s understanding and listening to his discourses. We don’t want to fall into the role of parrots, but we stand on the shoulders of a giant….”
Yeah. Ever heard of the Zen slogan:
‘If you meet the giant on your way, kill him immediately!’?
Or, Satchit, at the very least, get rid of the pedestals that dafties often hoist their heroes onto.
Shantam, frankly, in my experience, any kind of such a place you are dreaming of happens either when someone has absolutely undisputed existential as well as undisputed / disputed financial backing & all of that happens quite effortlessly.
Maybe initially even the supposed Gurus who created such places also had a dream like yours!
Btw, never before seen or heard anyone put so much written effort regarding such a dream!
Since I am not in any kind of astrology! Would only wish you the best always.
Somehow can’t relate to this AI / ASI, to me all technology is part of Existence & No-techno / Naturalness is beyond probably comprehensiveness, which we humans tend to comhrehend!
Osho told many illuminating stories, providing his listeners with a great set of tools to carry under their belts.
“The Zen Master Hakuin was honoured by his neighbours as oen who led a pure life. One day it was discoverd that a beautiful girl who lived near Hakuin was pregnant. The parents were very angry. At first, the girl would not say who the father was, but after much harassment she named Hakuin. In great anger, the parents went to Hakuin, but all he would say was, “Is that so?”
After the child was born, it was taken to Hakuin – who had lost his reputation by this time, although he didn’t appear much disturbed by the fact.
Hakuin took great care of the child. He obtained milk, food, and everything else the child needed from his neighbours.
A year later, the girl-mother could stand it no longer, so she told her parents the truth – the real father was a young man who worked in the fish market. The mother and father of the girl went round at once to Hakuin to tell him the story, apologise at great length, ask his forgiveness and get the child back.
As the master willingly yielded the child, he said, “Is that so?” “
If intelligence is “the mental faculty that allows us to understand, learn, elaborate concepts, and solve new problems,” then we need to understand what we want to learn, understand, and elaborate on spirituality, and what problems need to be solved.
For some, the problem is how to reach paradise, enlightenment, or the end of the cycle of rebirth and death.
Therefore, we must learn, understand, and elaborate concepts about spirituality, seeking the right sources and not misleading ones. However, recognizing that we are on the wrong path would not be the end of spiritual growth, since awareness of our own limitations and the flexibility to adapt to a new situation are a symptom of intelligence.
I read the article, was slightly confused by it, but on reflection some sense of the words “spiritual intelligence” did come through. I think it is fair to say that Osho did teach to his sannyasins a sense of spiritual intelligence. We all sat in Buddha Hall listening to his discourses, his anecdotes and his teachings, and we absorbed the sense in which the things he said were true…
For example, I loved this Sufi story of khidr:
“One day, a man, a minor official of weights and measures in his home town, received a visitation. A severe man in a green robe appeared to him to say, are you ready to follow me? The official replied fearfully, yes, and was told, then throw yourself off this bridge into the river. He did as he was told and was swept downstream, and was rescued after some distance by a fisherman.
The fisherman allowed him to stay at his cottage, and taught him to fish, while the man taught him to read and write. After some months, the man in the green robe appeared again, less severe this time, and instructed him to take his fish to a nearby town and become a trader in skins.
The man did as he was told, and prospered. After some years he had accumulated enough wealth to think of buying a property and settling down with a family, when the man in green appeared again, and with a small smile instructed him to sell everything that he owned and donate it to a temple.
The man did so, and staying at the temple, small things started happening around him. Lost objects would be found, people would be cured by his touch. When he was later asked, how did he become so holy that miracles would manifest around him, all he would say is that he did as he was told.”
Osho then explained the key to the story: khidr is associated with the colour green in the stories of the Sufi’s, and represents the flow of existence. By learning the story’s meaning, we begin to understand a little about the meaning of living a surrendered life, and we learn to see what it means to be spiritually intelligent.
The fact that this resonated with me, that I see something in it and have remembered it out of all the anecdotes Osho told, means that in some regard I am ready for what it teaches.
Oh dear, NP. Next, you’ll be floating down the Amstel on your way to only the man in the green robe knows.
This is the problem with taking these things literally. That is not an example of spiritual intelligence, I’m sad to say, Lokesh.
Yes, I suppose this is due to my lack of spiritual intelligence. My bad for taking the Sufi story literally and taking it as true, in that some poor unsurrendered guy jumped in the river and so forth.
So, speaking from your perspective of spiritual intelligence, what really happened?
That is the beauty of it, on some level it is true. It is about non-attachment, trust in existence, dedication to a spiritual life, generosity, discernment. If you can find these qualities in your life, then you will be able to recognise khidr when it comes into your life.
It’s not that everyone with whom the story resonates should start throwing themselves off bridges, just that when an unexpected influence comes into your life, you consider that it may be existence taking a hand, and that “no” and hard-heartedness are not friends of the spiritual life.
There was a movie a while back called ‘Yes Man’ starring Jim Carrey. I don’t know if you recall it. It’s about a cynic who visits a self-help seminar and gets given the task of saying yes to every opportunity that comes his way. It’s a comedy, showing all the things that happen if you take this to an extreme, but there is an underlying kernel of truth to the story.
I see, NP. From now on, you can call me Grasshopper, if you wish. Thank you for elucidating on the subject of spiritual intelligence.
Now, if I see a green-robed figure floating across the sea on the back of a big silver fish, I will know it is al-Khidr.
Well, I imagine you don’t want to try being sensei… it strikes me as not chiming well with your rebellious Scottish nature.
You’ve often said you have fond memories of your time with Osho, but I wonder about your later spiritual experiences. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since Osho, have you ever tried to see where your spiritual search has taken you?
NP, had you any idea about how patronizing you might come across in writing such a daft question to me, you would not have scribed it. So, in the meantime you can keep on wondering ad infinitum.
“NP, had you any idea how patronizing you might come across in writing such a daft question to me, you would not have scribed it. So, in the meantime, you can keep on wondering ad infinitum.” SN’s stern Jewish father.
It’s normal that he rejected such an attempt, Nityaprem. With such arrogant people, you try to use the rhetorical cudgel.
You tried to act like a father to someone who has a deep-seated dispute with his father.
The proof of this is in his recurring and favourite communication strategy, paternalistic, precisely: “a persuasive strategy based on a tone of good-natured superiority. The speaker addresses the audience by assuming the role of a wise and protective guide (like a loving father), implicitly diminishing the interlocutor’s autonomy and pushing him to accept unsolicited advice or directions.”
When Lokesh addresses you with “I wonder” or “I’m just curious” to learn something about you, he’s actually saying, “Let’s hear what this idiot has to say in defence of himself,” as he did on the previous page of the Chat, where you later criticized me for responding to him with a club, against the symbols of our original religion, not just his own, with the difference that we are grateful for the work of the club used by Osho.
In this, Shantam and Lokesh are in the same boat; they’re both trying to return to their father’s side, and they’d like to convince as many lost souls as possible to do the same…overlooking small details like how, in the name of the Father, I should grow my hair long and be reborn with Palestinian blood.
When the two prodigies talk about Meera or Papaji, it’s just a delaying tactic for a showdown that’s not yet ripe, while they collect smoking guns, a trail of over 40 years.
Now that I think about it, it seems no coincidence that these are the two commentators who have been most present since the forum’s founding, that they are both critical of Osho’s work and lovers, that they both have a paternalistic attitude toward younger brothers who make mistakes, that they happen to be perhaps the only ones who have met in person, and finally, to divert some possible suspicions about their true intentions, they feigned a victim-tyrant dialectic between them.
I hope their home organizations give them some free lunches.
Osho for religions “in the name of the Father” is more corrosive than Max Stirner for Marxism, with the difference that Osho has a community that continues to be united by that quality of love for life, while poor M. Stirner died as he lived: a misanthrope.
Persuasion Techniques “in the Name of the Father”:
“How Paternalistic Rhetoric Works
False Symmetry: The speaker places himself on the same emotional level as the audience to create a sense of intimacy (e.g., “my friends,” “listen to my advice for your own good”), but maintains a clear intellectual or moral hierarchy.
Emotional but Limiting Language: Sweet and heartfelt tones are used to justify interfering in others’ choices, assuming that the recipient is incapable of making autonomous decisions for their own benefit.
Presumption of Benevolence:
The core principle of this rhetoric is the declared intent to “protect” or “guide” the other.
Practical Examples
Politics:
When a leader addresses citizens, presenting restrictive or welfare measures as “gestures of care” on the part of a welfare state, presenting obedience as the natural counterpart to protection.
Social Communication:
Speeches that They promote charity by portraying recipients as passively in need of protection, rather than as subjects with rights.” (AI)
Don’t tempt the Sufi master in me, Nityaprem.
I could take away your books and coffee for a week.
“At my most stupidly materialistic, I left a stable government job for a life of searching for resources to invest in my spiritual growth.”
I believe that if I had continued to apply the criterion of “material intelligence”, prioritizing the comforts of a life with a secure salary but neglecting the Master’s invitation to walk a path of light homeward, today I would probably be a somewhat withered single man, amidst the rewards of an easy life, or married and dealing with the complications of a family with intelligent material demands.
Nothing fails like the success of applying material intelligence, while the failures of spiritual intelligence heighten the awareness that joy lies not in achieving a goal.
Not my Lavazza Qualita Oro! Only an upset bowel will keep me from my morning moka. Hehe…
It’s definitely a thing. When you start making demands, you move away from a surrendered life, and habits and creature comforts are a barrier to a truly spiritual life.
In a way, to live a modern life is to accumulate things. And then you need a house to keep your things in. And a car to transport what you buy. Before you know it, you are enclosed in a matrix of legal obligations, finances, relationships…
Life as a sadhu in India would be simpler. Just bathe in the Ganges every day, pray to Shiva, and voila!
@MOD errata corrige at June 10, 2026 at 7:54 am, 2nd paragraph:
I’m not sure “materially stupid” is equivalent to the opposite of “spiritual intelligence.” To me, it should be “material stupidity”…are you kidding me?
MOD:
So how do you want to change it, Veet Francesco?
(And where does “are you kidding me?” fit into this?)
@MOD
You’re the English teacher…but since you might be offended and uncooperative, for assuming that I accidentally translated (Google) something that exposed me to ridicule, you then deliberately didn’t correct it, finding it an opportunity to snicker with your friends, like some time ago.
If that’s not the case, I apologize.
MOD:
No need to be so suspicious, Veet F, I had no such motivation.
(Btw, ‘are you kidding me?’ means ‘are you telling me an untruth?’, not ‘are you laughing at me?’).
@MOD
“No need to be so suspicious, Veet F, I had no such motivation.”
Mod,
Kavita complimenting me, you not wanting to sneer at me anymore…won’t it be too much for Lokesh all at once?
On the previous page, Veet Francesco said:
“A failure presupposes a goal that wasn’t achieved, like the conclusion of a fairy tale: “and they all lived happily ever after.”
Instead, other things happened after the Ranch, just as they had before the Ranch, yet it seems like failure is only spoken of when referring to the pinnacle of the American experience.
From my perspective, I might consider what happened on that piece of land not a success but even a miracle.”
I don’t consider the Ranch a failure. It left a deep impression in the hearts and minds of all those who contributed to it. It was a very special period of our lives.
Sorry, Nityaprem, now that you quoted my comment I noticed that I wrote the opposite of what I think, I pointed out to the MOD the correction on the previous page: “From my perspective, I might consider what happened on that piece of land not JUST a success but even a miracle.”
The other day, a local woman threw herself off a bridge, and a turbaned man in a green robe was seen hurrying from the scene.
A concerned onlooker turned to me and commented, “There was something fishy about that hombre in the green getup.
“What?” I said. “You suspect foul play?”
“Well,” the onlooker replied, “I just don’t trust those muslim cabrones.”
Nodding to themselves, they continued, “And I’ll tell you another thing. Sometimes the kindest words hide the sharpest intentions.”
I had no idea what they were talking about, so I turned their attention to the woman in the river. “Oh, look, a fisherman has saved her.”
Most of the comments, to be true, are not sharp enough to engage others.
It seems like private communication of two or three people, which creates boredom in readers.
It’s okay, Shantam, don’t feel guilty, the next article you write will definitely be more stimulating.
Thanks, Veet, for inspiring the next article.
This was already in my mind. Most probably it could be a game changer for sannyasnews too. Theme is very simple.
Some guess?
Shantam, do you think comments have to be sharp to attract interest? That is the way of social media, but it feeds discord and unhappiness. The lesson I took from Osho’s discourses is to minimise discord, to encourage, to point the way.
Doing this attracts its own audience. People want some interest, but not all of them are interested in arguments. A little bit of the spiritual way, a few jokes, a few anecdotes will also do.
While reading this book, my eyes get tears, throat gets choked, not for the Human Bhagwan & his management but honest account of one of the disciples who became the scapegoat…
Majority of the people who came to the master were more innocently intelligent than the Gadarwara Clan and so- alled chosen few.
As I see, Rajneeshpuram was one of the darkest phases of human devotion and its merciless exploitation..
Surely truth shines in the end, not the mixture of facts and fictions.
It seems you’ve discovered a smoking gun, Shantam…
You have the honour and the moral authority to use your Sikh knife to slaughter Osho.
Before the execution…a little compassion, please…I remind you that you share the same addiction to beautiful women with the man sentenced to death, even if in your case it resulted in a long withdrawal crisis that continues to this day.
Veet, when you are so articulate to do psychoanalysis, shed some light, what was that helplessness of Rajneesh to become Osho at the dead end of his lifespan cut short by various factors, but surely not some poison in American custody for a few days.
As I know, one can befool some group of people but not the world, cosmic Intelligence, not at all.
Shantam, between the two of us, you seem to be the sophisticated psychoanalyst, the one most convinced of knowing the inner soul of Chandra Mohan Jain Acharya Rajneesh Bhagwan Osho.
For me, the question of his nature remains open, so I don’t know whether the good things that have happened in my life are thanks to Osho or despite Osho. He certainly provided the social and human context in which they occurred.
In this suspension of judgment, you can’t slit my throat if I feel compassion for him and contempt for those who have the same headbanger attitude toward him as you do.
I remember Jane Stork from Poona One. She was an Australian mum and kind of squeaky clean, goody-goody, looking for enlightenment type sannyasin. I might order her book.
I think I have it somewhere, it was on my father’s bookshelf. Haven’t read it yet.
Ms. Stork compared her time as a sannyasin to her time with nuns during her Catholic upbringing — the same blind faith; she even goes so far as to say it’s the same mechanism of belonging that unites criminal gangs.
When asked if her experience with Osho has changed her view of religion, she replies “definitely.”
Then, when pressed by the interviewer and asked if there’s anything good worth saving in religion, she contradicts herself, pausing for a long moment before offering a patronizing reply about her sister finding comfort in doing something good for others.
You don’t have to be a skilled psychoanalyst to interpret such contradictions, expressed in such pauses and with such unspiritual content.
She, too, when questioned about true spiritual intelligence, couldn’t explain why Meera or Papaji is better than that devil Bhagwan.
The commercial wave started by Netflix is running out of steam; hurry up and sell the last of your unsold books before they end up in the landfill of history.
If I’ve lived 62 years without needing the Bible of Guru Nanak or Yahweh, I can do without Jane’s book, although I pity the bad things that happened to her…her problem, I believe, was precisely what she blames her sister for: “She hasn’t travelled the world like me” (almost).
The same naiveté of those with a narrow spiritual vision (intelligence). If her family hadn’t risked falling apart due to her husband’s crisis-malaise, she would never have left her comfort zone, she would never have even felt the need to leave her neighbourhood with its little white church (I have nothing against little white churches and the humanity that inhabits them).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNAkUgif76Y
It seems Shantam has seen something of himself in Jane Stork’s story…
Have to agree with Iqbal here. We delude ourselves when we get a little tickle of energy from people like Osho, either in person or more likely from reading memes on FB. In both cases it is mostly self-pleasuring without much real grounding in higher truth, which always includes compassion for all. Much of Osho’s stuff I consider little more than spiritual pornography, titillating, exciting but masturbatory, concerned with self, with little regard for others.
To(b)y boy, it’s easy to get too high-minded and say Osho wasn’t authentically spiritual.
No one can contradict you unless you first state your parameters.
It’s like someone calling you a true headbanger without mentioning anyone who isn’t.
I’d like to point out that you agree with Shantam, who on this forum is considered a true headbanger by Lokesh, someone who speaks from experience in these matters.
The other day I read an article against Osho, by someone with extensive background and a serious, trustworthy look.
He made a long list of all the limitations of the Master of Masters, until…he peed outside the toilet.
For goodness sake, who doesn’t piss outside the toilet when they’re excited?
But he wasn’t; he was serious, hieratic, pointing out all the urine splashes left by Osho.
Unlike a long list of authentic spiritual masters who never missed their aim: “Gautama the Buddha, Jesus, Antony of Egypt, Atisha, Kobo Daishi, Milarepa, Jnaneshvar, Rumi, Chinul, Dogen, Bankei, Hakuin, John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Moshe Cordovero, the Baal Shem Tov, Seraphim of Sarov (et al.), and widely visited and well documented figures of the modern era like Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Narayana Guru, Hazrat Babajan, Shirdi Sai Baba, Meher Baba, Shaikh al-Alawi, Padre Pio, Swami Gnanananda, Bhagavan Nityananda, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Anandamayi Ma, Anasuya Devi, Hsu Yun, Hsuan Hua, Taungpulu Sayadaw, Ajahn Chah, Songchol Kun Sunim, Daehaeng Kun Sunim, Dhilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, and many other luminaries.”
What?!!! Noticed anything? No Italians here? He included in the list the saint who garners the most blind devotion around here, despite all the well-documented urine splashes.
If this applies to a contemporary of Osho, imagine how popular worship, after centuries, can alter the description of events that accredit or discredit an authentic spiritual master.
To discourage me from continuing to read the long article, it was enough to note the gap between the forensic pathologist’s approach in dividing a hair from Osho’s asshole into four parts, longitudinally, and the ease of issuing a saint’s licence simply because the head of an institution more gossiped about than the English royal family had done the same before him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhs2JhOR2_k
https://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/rajneesh.html
And Veet, do you think it is true what Deeksha claimed in this article, you posted?
See below:
Further testimony from Deeksha comes from other sources, combined in Uday Mehta’s ‘Modern Godmen in India’ (p.121):
“Rajneesh was becoming increasingly violent, coercive and deceitful. She [Deeksha] admitted that, even in Pune, Rajneesh encouraged and permitted ‘everything, including prostitution and even drug dealing, as long as it brought him money. Deeksha claimed she had seen Rajneesh beat Ma Vivek badly.”
Thanks for the question, Satchit. I didn’t think you’d be interested in my perspective.
This testimony was also published in a book released three years after the deaths of the protagonists, referring to events from at least ten years earlier.
This woman appears to have given her worst self during sannyas, and everything she says sounds like a call for complicity, but unlike her accomplices, she is alive and cannot be contradicted, which doesn’t increase sympathy for her.
She doesn’t seem sorry for what happened to her; she describes everything in the same tone, even when she recounts events involving abuse suffered by others. She doesn’t seem sorry for them, nor even angry with the abuser.
If all that remains of that experience with Osho, which still gratifies her today, is that tough approach that for a time made her feel at the centre of the world, I can only feel compassion for her.
First comes disappointment that the ‘great spiritual experience’ hasn’t happened to you.
Then comes cynicism, as a defence against that disappointment which is damaging to the ego.
Then comes the need to drag down everyone who is still on the path by spreading that cynicism, to feed that ego and prove that you are right.
Because the ego loves to be right, that is its bread and butter.
You would do better to let go of the poison and just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram…
“You would do better to let go of the poison and just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram…” Nityaprem
I recently watched videos of interviews with the people of the Ranch, some while Osho was in prison.
What strikes me is the extraordinary focus of the people in answering questions honestly and originally, the furthest thing from a response dictated by a sense of belonging to a community that erases or diminishes the individual dimension.
Even when the images of Osho being interviewed in prison were released, where he expresses the humiliation of his unjust detention, the sannyasins, some in tears, retained the same innocence and focus, allowing the truth of what they were experiencing to emerge, without judgment.
For me, this is a true social miracle; I repeat, I have no proof to say whether it is thanks to or despite Osho, this virtuous example of how a widespread sense of trust can coexist with the utmost critical thinking.
“Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?” T. S. Eliot (a genuine, post-World War I anguish that found relief in the name of the (Anglican) father).
The existential vision proposed by Osho, despite its superficial contradictions, cannot be trivialized by abstracting it from the effects of its application, which are still found today in contexts dedicated to the Master’s vision.
While aspects of spiritual growth are difficult to objectively assess, social ones can be assessed starting from evolved forms of coexistence measurable in terms of widespread joy, freedom, creativity, autonomy, and attention to aesthetic, gastronomic, architectural, therapeutic, and technological details functional to collective well-being.
Perhaps Sam is right: the real obstacle to the miracle of an eternal, trustful, and rebellious adolescence of the heart is the presence of a Master with a solid, coherent, and virtuous existential anecdote from which to draw an ethical compass for future generations, a potential source of misunderstanding regarding the model for conferring spiritual meaning and value.
Having an external model of a Master — aesthetically bizarre, philosophically contradictory, and ethically questionable — allows us to come to terms with our own vulnerability and solitude.
How can we nurture the spiritual seeds that, against all odds, we have received as a gift from a space of surrender, in communion with our Inner Master, evoked “in the presence” (initiatory) of Osho, the Master of (external) Masters?
Part of the process for me is observing how easy it is at times to give in to the cynicism that would save me from being judged as naive, stupid, a dreamer…in the name of Love, not of the Father.
And yet, like the fragrance of roses, against 93 Rolls Royces full of bizarre reasons, that sense of fresh breeze, like the first childish wonder, still deeply gladdens my soul, the thing that most inspires me to love life and humanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieTinz7xtJQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A8NgPVizP4
Yes, it puts me in mind of this photo
By chance today I came across this short video of Eckhart Tolle that deals with the source of compassion for others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYG2uyZii6A
Satyadeva, perhaps it’s no coincidence that you posted this link at this very point in the debate, where we were wondering which ego is a vehicle of compassion and which is a vehicle of existential failure-cynicism.
E. Tolle’s limitation, imv, is that he never uses a club, not even when he meets a headbanger.
For him, everything boils down to a technique-skill of observing reality as it is, as if awareness of one’s emotions implies knowing how to manage them, or that feeling empathy implies compassion.
Too intellectual for my intellectual tastes; rather than surrendering, he invites me to a pub over a beer to discuss human nature.
Much more authentic (than Tolle), in his cognitive dissonance, after having seen the dark side of Osho according to the mind-formatting industry, is Mr. Joe Rogan (I hope someone will be kind enough to send him the PDF of ‘Life of Osho’ by Sam Paritosh).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stiQTJuJNF8
I found the video of Eckhart Tolle talking about compassion a pleasant interlude, I always thought Tolle was a very sane person in that he always presents more or less the same face. He can therefore be said to have a specific teaching.
Osho on the other hand can be quite changeable according to whose question he is answering, he isn’t anything like as consistent as Tolle. He doesn’t fit neatly into categories, and defies being typed. But if you take the time to read enough of his talks you will find areas which resonate with you and where he appears to be talking to you…
NP declares, “The ego loves to be right, that is its bread and butter.”
That is correct.
Which raises the question, who or what do you believe is responsible for writing the above comment? If it is not the ego, do you imagine it is something beyond or above the ego that is doing the writing? Who determines this?
It just came as an impulse out of nowhere, Lokesh. I was just functioning as a translator….
Nityaprem, I wonder why, among so many “egos” on this forum, Lokesh always targets yours.
How does he determine, as in this case, that To(b)y boy speaks out of compassion while you are far from any spiritual perspective?
How does he sound like someone convinced he’s right?
Perhaps what you say about the ego’s bulimia is true. From his teacher, Lokesh became fond of not only fried vegetables but also bread and butter.
By the way, it’s well known that in Advaita culture, after realizing union with the universal soul, “the sense of individuality (Ahamkara) does not necessarily disappear, but is radically transformed. It no longer identifies the subject with the body-mind, but remains as an “empty shell” or a useful tool for acting in the world, comparable to a burned seed that can no longer germinate.”
The ego is therefore a problem if it creates suffering and not if it is a tool to invite people to see specific causes of suffering, as you, NP, have done with the cynicism that is intended to hide disappointment.
OK, NP, no problem. Thanks for your response.
Lokesh, old chum, somehow I don’t think it was the response you were looking for… maybe I wasn’t being as smart as you expected, or Scots thinking and Dutch thinking were clashing. Nevermind.
It’s hard to stop making assumptions because it’s our habit to assume. When we make assumptions, we believe they are the truth. We assume we know what other people think or feel, when in fact we do not.
“So I am saying everything that has not been said. Laughter has been completely avoided, because it seemed that it destroyed your seriousness. And all the masters of the past wanted you to be serious about your search. They misunderstood one thing, that sincerity about the search is one thing, and seriousness about the search is not the same thing. I want you to be sincere and authentic about your search – not only about your search, but about everything, because you cannot be sincere only in one dimension. If you are sincere, then all dimensions of your life are sincere.
But seriousness has been misunderstood as sincerity. Seriousness is a sickness. A serious seeker is searching for truth with sadness, with a burden on his head. He is not interested in the pilgrimage. He is only interested in the end, the goal, the paradise, the heaven, whatever name has been chosen by the master. My own understanding is: there is no heaven, and there is no paradise, there is no goal. Life is an eternal pilgrimage.
Now, making people serious is making them sick for eternity. They will lose all joy, they will shrink, all their juice will be gone. They will not see the beauty of the path and the trees and the mountains that they will be passing through, because seriousness does not allow these things. Seriousness condemns all this as mundane.
To me, there is no division like mundane and sacred. It is one universe. There are not two universes. Yes, the same universe you can look at in a mundane way, you can look at in a sacred way. The distinction is not between two universes, the distinction is only in two outlooks. And my feeling is, the more joyous you are, the more full of juice, love, laughter, music and dance, the more your journey will become a tremendously beautiful pilgrimage.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
“In a society which has been at war with itself and others for thousands of years, as an educationalist and as a human being, I began to despair of any solution to the perennial problems of war; poverty, hunger and man’s inhumanity to man. For the first time in my life, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh’s teachings and lifestyle has given me a glimmer of hope for mankind, not as an ideal, but as a definite practical solution to the world’s ills.
However, all great findings need the correct ambience to successfully flower and that’s my hope that Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh may be able to continue his work in the United States, a country renowned for its nurturing of the pioneer thought and the pioneer spirit, in religion, education and technology. This would be of incalculable benefit, not only to Americans, but the rest of mankind.”
Sw Premartha (1983, to support Osho’s attempt to obtain permanent resident status in the US)
Perhaps a different generation of sannyasins, compared to the founders and commentators on this forum, perhaps born in the 1930s or 1940s, recognized Osho’s spiritual intelligence, in his pioneering work, to contribute to creating the conditions for a joyful coexistence for humanity.
https://www.sannyas.wiki/index.php?title=Testimonial_letter_from_Sw_Premartha
Interesting to see Premartha’s letter, Veet F, I didn’t have any idea he had worked for such a long time for the BBC.
Nityaprem, I don’t know if I could have met this Premartha, perhaps by singing with him at the Smoking Temple in Pune, the large one near the main gate road, coming from German Bakery on the right side.
It doesn’t seem like he was a forum commentator.
The Premartha I’ve held in my heart for 30 years is a compatriot of yours.
https://www.oshonews.com/2023/06/09/anand-premartha/
“Identical twin brothers Hamish and Gordon lived in the same town. Hamish was married but Gordon was single and used to have an old rowboat.
It happens that Hamish’s wife dies on the same day that Gordon’s boat sinks.
The minister’s wife meets Gordon in the street and, mistaking him for Hamish, says, “I am very sorry to hear about your great loss.”
“Ah,” says Gordon, “I’m not sorry a bit. She was a rotten old thing from the start. Her bottom was all chewed up. The first time I got into her she made water faster than anything I have ever seen. She had a big crack and a big hole at the front, which just got bigger every time I used her. Then the other day, four guys came around looking for a good time and they asked if they could rent her. Well, the crazy fools all tried to get into her at the same time, and she cracked right up the middle.”
The minister’s wife collapsed.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
“What is the need? I cannot understand why the weather vane should want to know how the wind blows. Can you figure it out? Is there any need? Do these trees know where the wind is blowing? Do the stars know? Except man nothing in this whole existence is reluctant to go with existence. That’s why everything is happy, blissful. They don’t have riches; what do these poor trees have? But they have spontaneity. When the wind blows they dance, when it does not blow they rest. Both are equally acceptable.
A tremendous trust exists between the earth, the sky, the wind, the sun. When the sun starts rising in the morning, the trees wake up. They don’t need any alarm clock. And when the sun sets, they all start going to sleep. As the sun sets, the birds start coming back to their nests – it is time to rest. Nobody teaches them to go early to bed. Nobody teaches them…in the morning as the sun is rising they all wake up, start singing, making sounds of joy, rejoicing, welcoming another day.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
Nityaprem,
This post is for you. During my decades-long living in Germany, I have never seen more loving, balanced, peaceful human beings as in Jehovah’s Witnesses!
The way they quote Quotations from The Bible and try their level best to follow the teachings, I feel miles-long books of Indian gurus are not needed.
Yes, they are needed too for someone like you, those who are Osho The Witness…
Surely, such people are also very loving and pacifist in their approach.
Well, to be compared to a Jehovah’s Witness isn’t exactly a compliment in my book, my experiences with them weren’t positive. What’s more I don’t seek to convert people — if there is any place where you can post an Osho quote, it’s surely on a site called SannyasNews, where interested people may gather.
I’m not a fanatic or a missionary, at most I believe Osho still has gifts to give to the world. He dealt knocks to institutions that needed knocking, and set many other people on the spiritual path.
Nityaprem,
This post is for you. During my decades-long living in Punjab, I have never seen more loving, balanced, peaceful human beings as in Sikhism!
The way they quote Quotations from The Adi Granth Bible and try their level best to follow the teachings, I feel miles-long books of Christian saints are not needed.
Yes, they are needed too for someone like you, those who love books more than fitness…
Surely, such people are also very loving and pacifist in their approach.
The thing is, if you love fitness more than books you become very driven. I went through a phase where I did a lot of fitness, in the gym three times a week after a nine-to-five job, and in the end it didn’t do me much good.
“The sun starts rising in the morning after listening to the Cock´s first call at 04.30.”
Must be an ancient saying!
It seems we all lean upon pillars of wisdom…at a certain point in life, sooner or later we go looking for those who are wiser than ourselves. We end up on YouTube or in a spiritual bookshop, checking out those who have put themselves out there to be seen, looking for a living person who can show us the way.
Whether you believe in the Buddha’s teachings on the Noble Eightfold Path, or in Osho’s talks on meditation and relaxation, or in Eckhart Tolle’s writings on the ego and the pain-body and consciousness, the longing is the same. It is the mystery of a conscious existence, that which we feel but which we cannot put into words. What is the colour green, or the fragrance of a rose? It is just as ungraspable.
It is only when we learn to see that we live in a dream, that the mind surrounds us like a thick London pea-souper, that we begin to learn about our own nature.
Yeah, ego enjoys words like “pillars of wisdom”.
Basically you find a mirror.
And what do you see in the mirror?
The peace of your true self, something very familiar.
Truly blessed are the ones who are fair, good, intelligent, without any influence of self-certified Sadgurus; copycat Enlighteneds.
As I see, God is good – one ‘o’ less.
Goodness and God (Cosmic Wisdom) are enough. Age of Indian Guru Industry is over. Thank God.
MOD:
“God is good one ‘o’ less” – What does this mean, Shantam?
God is good with one ‘o’ less.
It is word game:
‘Good’ has double ‘o’, ‘God’ has one.
The deleted ‘o’ finds or steals another ‘o’ & becomes ‘Osho’!
Remember to drink enough water during this warm weather, while playing your game of ‘o’…
There are plenty of homegrown copycat enlightened out there, we do not need to import them from India.
Many times it feels we have not only over-population of humans in India but also over-population of self-proclaimed Gods & also a few self-proclaimed No Gods, not only in India but also the rest of the world!
Though O – shsh – O is more accurate, O = infinity & shsh = silence!
Just the last few weeks I have been coming across unexpected moments of real joyousness, jokes and fragments of books that have struck me as unexpectedly and deeply funny, that just made me roar with laughter.
I have been meeting myself on the road, and finding that my inner nature takes pleasure in dollops of levity. Listening to a podcast about P.G. Wodehouse’s book ‘The Code of the Woosters’ induced much laughter, giving a more lighthearted cast to the world.
Osho too in characteristic fashion says, I teach nothing except witnessing and then goes on to tell a series of jokes, showing that he does indeed teach a more joyous way of looking at things as well.
I agree, Nityaprem, someone like him is a true enemy of those who invest, in an organized way, in anguish and fear, but I don’t think Osho selected what to watch, as you do, with a podcast blasting in his ears. In fact, when you listened to Dragon Lady or the testimonies of the cult children, you seemed emotionally connected enough to those egregores* to see the Master as a dark, evil, and not at all joyful entity.
Joyful laughter is possible even amidst the social ruins of a pandemic organized in a military biolaboratory on the border with Russia or amidst the ruins of Gaza; the important thing is that it’s not a clumsy attempt to bypass reality.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore
The negative talkers did cause me to become angry at Osho, mostly because he allowed certain things to happen or didn’t conform to my image of the perfect guru. But that is of course silliness, expecting someone else to conform to your vision is totally futile. At some level by doing that you are making a judgment that someone should be like this, which is foolishness.
It is better to just accept people as they are, which may include a few flaws, and if you feel a connection see what you can learn from them. Now Osho is not the perfect exemplar, there are areas where he and I differ enormously in our views. But there are instances where he still illuminates me, his jokes shake me up, his insight still occasionally surprises me.
I think Osho was right to say that to feel is more important than to think. Thinking is coloured by culture, media, your conditioning, the opinion of others, many things. But the heart sees true, and the look of Osho’s eyes tell me he meant only good things for those who came to partake of his wisdom.
Gurus in general are the perfect screens for people to project their ideas, fantasies, love, aspirations and a whole lot of other things onto, not all of them healthy for sure. Big-shot gurus are hard to get to know on a personal level, and therefore, seekers in the back row are left in the dark as to the true nature of who a famous guru really is.
A guru with a beard and hypnotic eyes, or maybe an austere shaved head and a soothing voice that delivers all the seemingly correct answers, might appear benevolent and enlightened, but behind the stage presence often lurks someone with questionable moral values. Behind the velvet curtains, they are lusting after fame, fortune, power, attractive women, and in certain cases, young boys etc. Uncorrupted gurus are like true love…hard to find.
It is said that a true seeker can learn even from a shit guru. I suppose there is truth in that, but better if one hooks up with one of those rare bona fide teachers and save yourself some trouble. It is also said that the real teacher resides within us and will connect us with an external guru who will, hopefully, make us aware of the inner guru, who is ultimately who we really are. It appears the world is in you, not the other way around.
Meditation is very important. How do you know if your meditation practice is working? You will not think so much.
When I read the content of most of the comments on SN these days, I see that those comments are a product of busy minds, overflowing with thought. It would be easy for me to get into exposing that, but that in itself is a form of ego trip I no longer feel comfortable indulging in….well, at least most days. It is so basic, predictable and uninspiring, and as I said, too easy, especially when dealing with kindergarten seekers who think they are close to enlightenment and all that bullshit.
What to do? Sitting silently and doing absolutely nothing is certainly beneficial on many levels.
I really enjoy indulging in the ego trip of exposing the limitations of a busy mind like Lokesh’s. It’s very easy for me to see how his stream of thoughts is the result of an overflowing ego, always preoccupied with self-celebration.
Lokesh, after a premise of agreeable things about the Inner-Outer Master, was absorbed by the egregore of his original community, stepping into the usual role of self-proclaimed father of Osho’s young and naive orphans.
Alluding to the moral corruption of a guru like Osho, he argued that only seekers like him who weren’t in the “back row” could have noticed all the things that were going on behind the scenes, regarding sex, drugs, and RR’s.
The problem is that the “morally questionable” things Lokesh alluded to about Osho didn’t happen when Lokesh was in the front row and close to the Master, but when Osho was thousands of miles away: It wasn’t Lokesh who distanced himself from the corrupt Master, but rather the beloved Master who distanced himself from the then-trusting disciple.
I wonder if Lokesh will apply to himself one of the criteria he loves to share with young, naive sannyasins: learning to shut up about the dark and distant events of the Ranch, when he sat in the very back row, facing another guru, and opening his heart to share the reasons for his love for the Master, when he was so close he could embrace him.
What will Lokesh’s ego choose?
Was he naive when he loved the corrupt Master, or a slanderer today of facts never seen, not even from the last back row, and therefore should he shut up?
Lokesh, when old age sneaks up on you, there are two things you can do. You can become a cynic, someone who hasn’t found what they are looking for and is therefore convinced it doesn’t exist, or you can become a child again, a real kindergarten seeker but this time purified of rubbish. It’s up to you.
The first is a path of knowledge, of rejection, of negativity. It’s the way of an older man soured in juices of ego and mind, who wants to bring that sourness to others by occasionally spitting a stream of venom. The second is a path of let-go, releasing all those things that keep you tied down and by letting go just getting lighter and lighter… I know which I would choose.
In a way, society ties us down with all the things we are supposed to have and look after. That too is a process of letting go, because when we leave this world we go as naked as when we came in.
“Young Ruthie, the daughter of Hymie Goldberg, is watching her mother Becky as she tries on her new fur coat.
”Mum,” she says in disgust, ”do you realize how much a poor, dumb animal had to suffer, so you could have that coat?”
”Ruthie,” snaps Becky angrily, ”how dare you talk about your father like that.” ”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
Even though I don’t agree at all nor relate to what Veet says now…nevertheless I’m amazed how his mind can conjure such judgements!
Thank whosoever for not having met him in person ever!
Ready for his judgements about my comment, waiting in anticipation (smile)….
NP, sometimes copy/pastecan be boring; wondering if everything gets boring sometime, no one is an exception, not even me!
Kavita, don’t be surprised by how my mind works, but rather by how someone taught me not to let my mind use me (even if during a soccer game, the competitive trance can make me lose the detachment needed to see what’s there).
Don’t worry, I don’t have much to tell you. I’ve never met you. Maybe I don’t have anyone to thank for that; it’s because you’re not open to dialogue, like Lokesh, who prefers his inconsistent monologues about what the truth is.
You, too, love your idea of truth more than the men and women united by love in that search.
“you’re not open to dialogue, like Lokesh, who prefers his inconsistent monologues about what the truth is.”
Now, I am wondering if truth can be consistent! & to you, does only responding to anyone actively (typing) = to respond? & does silence have any significance to you?
“Kavita, don’t be surprised by how my mind works, but rather by how someone taught me not to let my mind use me.”
&
“You, too, love your idea of truth more than the men and women united by love in that search.”
Probably the same entity who taught you indicated to look at the moon & not the finger pointing towards it.
Kavita, don’t play the game of the apprentice philosopher-sophist. I’m not interested in outdoing you and your hero on this matter by abstracting the word “truth” from its context.
I was responding to Lokesh about the Master’s dirty finger, as if it were an established fact, to undermine the value of the things he pointed out. This is the context we should give, in this case, to “truth”.
Your and his rejection of the dialectical process, both regarding the Master’s dirty finger and the syllogism that, again according to you two, undermines his teaching, strikes me as highly arrogant.
Veet, you are always playing a supposed expert psychoanalyst, I am not interested in outdoing you or anybody – period.
About “I was responding to Lokesh about the Master’s dirty finger, as if it were an established fact, to undermine the value of the things he pointed out. This is the context we should give, in this case, to “truth””: btw, I was responding to ”you’re not open to dialogue, like Lokesh, who prefers his inconsistent monologues about what the truth is.”
Anyway, I am certain we are on different tangents; yes, probably, tangents do meet at some point!
Kavita, I will try and find some really boring quotes for you! But not today because it’s too warm to do anything much…
NP, luckily yesterday it rained here in Poona, so I can take anyone’s boring quotes today
The monsoon is arriving? I’ve been using my Weather app on my iPhone to track what the temperatures have been like and it has been unbearably hot in Varanasi I saw, it’s still 40 degrees C there and they are not expecting rain until a week from today…
Talking about the weather is one of the most common conversations in English — and one of the easiest ways to start a friendly chat with anyone on SN. Whether you are meeting a blogmate, chatting with a troll, or making small talk down at the opium den, weather is a topic that everyone can relate to. Yes, this is the truth. Knowing the right phrases makes these conversations feel natural and Zen.
In this free conversation Kavita and NP meet casually and talk about the weather, their feelings about the rainy season in India, and their preference for cyclones and bhang lassi. You will practise how to comment on the weather using simple, natural phrases, ask someone if they like a type of weather, respond to weather comments in a friendly and casual way, and use popular expressions like “The monsoon is arriving” and “It rained here in Poona” that native speakers use every day.
This is one of the best conversations for absolute beginners because the vocabulary is simple, the topic is familiar, and the situation happens every single day. NP or Kavita, read the lines out loud, and practise until it feels loose and natural — you will be ready to talk about the weather in English with anyone, even homophobic gay Italian truck drivers.
Don’t provoke me, you angry old Scots Jew in andropause. If you have no arguments, shut up.
If you misjudge people, completely or partially, you could find yourself with a truck driver in your home, one who delivers throughout Europe, including the islands, and be forced to witness the therapeutic effect Latin charm can have on your wife…I don’t want tips, don’t worry.
Lokie, that’s nice of you to have got some time with us now, before going for a swim on a hot summer afternoon in Ibiza!
Hi Kavita,
Coincidentally enough, I just returned from a swim. Coolest I will feel on this 37 degrees day. Still, life is good.
As for me, even though life is good…trying to get back some courage now to cope with plateau city life, after coming back from eleven weeks or so of mountain village life.
I happen to be interested in the weather in India.
I’ve been wondering for a while about the effect of weather on civilisation. You have no tradition of Sannyas in Europe, is that because abandoning one’s home in winter is very unwise when it snows and freezes?
Certainly, living outside like some people do in India isn’t really an option in Northern Europe in winter.
NP, just sharing, even though I am Indian by birth I had no real idea/knowledge of the word ‘Sannyas’ till I came to Poona in Feb ’90 , taking sannyas in April ’90, although of course I had read in school history books about Buddha’s journey.
My paternal side were not traditional or religious (except for my paternal grandmother, she was more of a liberal though), other half were Theosophists &then became friends of J.Krishnamurti,
so I didn’t really have any religious conditioning. Since we lived in Bombay, in a cosmopolitan locality, we visited friends during their religious festivities, our families would have probably just celebrated births & marriages in our home.
I was at Gangotri/Himalayas, by chance, while staying in Dehradoon, in Sw. Narendra Saraswati’s Commune in summer of 2000 and during my long stay there I met an Indian couple, Dipti & Ashok, Dipti was an old colleague from the Poona Commune, Audio Department in Omar Khyam, and they asked me if I would like to travel with them in their vehicle, which I did.
It was the first time I met a few traditional sannyasins in the Himalayas, the first time I came to know that there are these solo meditators who live here, even in the winter, with hardly any clothes on their body, with as good as no possessions & they have left their family & have been living this ascetic life, till they die .
Anyway, coming to your point, don’t think here too it’s an option to live in the open in Northern India, I am sure you may know this, that India too has snow-capped mountains like Northern Europe! Guess the weather everywhere on Earth has always been changing for millennia.
Certainly there is a tradition of Sannyas in Europe, NP.
There have been many hermits.
And many people did abandon their family and enter a monastery in search for God.
Thanks, Kavita! It is nice to hear a little about your travels in India, and your background. India is an amazing country…
My father and his girlfriend travelled to Nepal to see the Himalayas back in 2016, but I didn’t go with them. I just heard the stories about monasteries and a cave where Padmasambhava had meditated and the walks near Pokhara…
The last time I was in India was in 1997, visiting the Meditation Resort in Poona. I stayed in a little flat by the river, near the burning ghats, it was an adventure.
Here is a model of spiritual intelligence that inspires Lokesh, rather than that horny old pig Osho and his naive disciples:
”When asked about behaviour and rules of conduct, Ramana answered, “Since the prescribed observances for self-discipline [niyamas] help one to a considerable extent, they are worthy to be accepted and followed.”
And also:
“Whatever is done lovingly, with righteous purity and with peace of mind, is a good action. Everything which is done with the stain of desire and with agitation filling the mind is classified as a bad action.”
Contrarily, what we see in neo-Advaita is the idea that there is no right nor wrong, and we simply ought to accept everything as it is. Well-known teachers have used these “Advaita excuses” to justify their lack of compassion, gross mistakes, and even power and sexual abuse. It is beyond the scope of this article to analyze individual cases.”
https://liveanddare.com/neo-advaita/4/
AI:
”The Lineage:
Papaji sanctioned dozens of students to become spiritual teachers themselves. Several of these figures, including Andrew Cohen (who was later exposed for running an abusive, high-control organization) and Mooji (who faced allegations of sexual misconduct and cult-like behaviour at his ashram in Portugal), went on to become wealthy and highly controversial gurus.
The Fallout:
Critics in the non-dual community hold Papaji responsible for validating and enabling these teachers without verifying their psychological maturity or ethical conduct.
3. Allegations of Sexual Misconduct and Abuse – The Accusations:
Former visitors and devotees have alleged that Papaji engaged in inappropriate sexual relationships with his followers. Detractors cite a lack of traditional moral boundaries in his teachings, particularly regarding the spiritualization of sexual energy, which they argue allowed for severe boundary violations by both him and his authorized teachers.”
https://boa.unimib.it/bitstream/10281/306458/2/phd_unimib_835384.pdf
Oh well, as Granny Macguffin used to say, “I’ll tell you this, a wee spark of truth can burn up a great big mountain of lies.”
Or as grandfather Macwinkel was oft heard to say, “De knuppel in het hoenderhok gooien.”
I didn’t know grandfather Macwinkel had a bit of Dutch in him.
“The mind creates questions. They may look very relevant and rational, but they are against experience, against existence. And because the whole world is communicating with each other only through the mind, nobody raises his voice against such questions, that they are basically wrong.
And it has to be understood that logic is man-manufactured. It does not grow in the fields. It is not like the mountains and the stars and babies. It is simply a mind projection. And it has dominated humanity for centuries. It has destroyed many valuable possibilities, potentialities. It has closed many doors to the mysteries of life. It has made man almost blind to light, to consciousness, to bliss, to truth.”
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
I enjoyed this piece about when Tamo-san came to visit Osho, and the author’s visit to her home in Japan…
https://www.oshonews.com/2026/06/19/meeting-tamo-san/
There are many beautiful people in the world, and existence does take care of them.
Aye, well, as Granny Macgruel used to say in the good auld days on the Isle of Lewis, “If you try to destroy someone’s reputation with lies and contrived propaganda, remember this: every false word creates a debt. Sooner or later, truth collects its payment and will bite you in the arse.”
Aye, as time shows, Granny Macgruel’s words still ring true today.
“Three women die and arrive at the Pearly Gates, where they are met by Saint Peter. ”Did you avoid sex on the earth?” he asks the first lady.
”I absolutely avoided it,” she replies.
”Very good,” says Peter. ”Here is a golden key, it will open the doors of paradise.”
Then he turns to the second woman and asks, ”What about you?”
”Well,” she replies, ”about half and half.”
”Okay,” says Peter. ”Here is a silver key, it will open the doors of purgatory.”
Then he asks the third woman, ”What about you?”
”Me?” she replies. ”I did all the things you can imagine and also many things you can’t imagine!”
”Great!” says Peter. ”Here is the key to my room, I’ll be coming there in a minute.””
( Osho, ‘Sat, Chit, Anand’ )
The thing about Osho jokes is that most of them, like the above, were not that funny.
What was extremely funny about those jokes was who was telling them.
Imagine serious seekers sitting in a discourse and Osho delivers the above joke. That is ridiculously funny. Particularly in this instance, because the joke is so corny.
Now that Osho has left this world and is no longer here to deliver his jokes personally, to copy and paste one of his shit jokes on this site is, to me, not in the least bit funny, and I do appreciate a good joke. This is not one of them.
Pff, you’re being overly harsh. It’s a vaguely amusing joke, which is good enough. Anyway, we don’t post enough jokes on here…
Perhaps, Lokesh, you should apply yourself to learning to write comedy. Try your hand at a Scottish play, maybe.
NP, I am not interested in your advice or suggestions. Mind your own business.
That’s too bad, I am full of spiffing good ideas these days!
It’s interesting, how being in tune with a guru has gone out of style since the 1970’s. I’d suspect a long anti-cult campaign by the mainstream media has made people suspicious of new religious movements, and social pressure has convinced people that what they are saying must be right.
The point of contact for many people new to Osho seems to now be the books, or perhaps the ‘Wild, Wild Country’ documentary on Netflix. But to go from there to considering yourself a sannyasin is a rather large jump, I bet there are a lot more people who read the books than who go to a Osho centre even.
So if you have felt something reading his words, perhaps a connection to his eyes in a photograph, where do you go from there? There are still people who give sannyas or run the meditations or the occasional festival. It just requires a bit of looking to find opportunities to celebrate Osho these days.
Really, NP, anyone might suspect you were brainwashed by Mum and Dad in the good auld days to believe there is no life worth living without Osho in it. Now your dad has gone and Mum dumped her Osho books in the rubbish, you have moved on to brainwashing yourself by reading Osho books, copy-and-pasting Osho quotes on Sannyas News and eating popcorn while watching Osho vids.
Anyway, why would one need opportunities to celebrate Osho? Why not simply celebrate, if you believe celebration is the way? What’s stopping you? It’s all in your mind.
If NP´s mom had dumped Osho books in rubbish, I would say she is a rebellious spirit, a truth-loving soul….
Who knows what would happen if Shantam’s mother threw Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji into the toilet…around those places the rebellious women who commit Beadbi (sacrilege) would not have a bright future, perhaps it is the sickhest son who has to wash away the guilt that falls on the family.
Yes, Shantam I Singh, I agree wholeheartedly. I propose that we decorate NP’s heroic mum with SN’s highest award for bravery. The double cross.
My mum has had to return the medal because a whole bookcase of Osho books has not been dumped but is in fact standing proudly in her living room….
Lokesh, this is not nice how you behave towards NP. If he wants to celebrate Osho, what’s wrong?
You should not be so negative.
Not everybody has dropped Osho like you.
Thanks, Satchit.
I think you’re right, Lokesh has dropped Osho, and he wants everybody else to do the same to prove that he is right. Sad, isn’t it?
But Osho definitely still has things to offer this world. He may not have been right about everything, but then, who is?
Yes. NP, Osho can still offer things.
He is still a hollow bamboo, but it depends of the listener.
Btw, what means “celebrating Osho”?
Satchit, the missing link, says, “If NP wants to celebrate Osho, what’s wrong?”
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I never said there was. All I said was that there is no need to wait for an opportunity to celebrate when you can simply celebrate…although you can count me out…been there, done that, many moons ago.
Satchit, you seem to share the same need to distort my words to mean anything you want as the unhinged, homophobic gay boy. Might be time to look into that. It’s not nice.
I wonder if Lokesh would be more proud if his son followed in his father’s Indian, neo-Advaita footsteps or those of his grandfather, God’s chosen race, treating a genocide in Gaza like a factory farm.
NP, I was joking. That is what you get when I apply myself to comedy.
Aha, the rapier of the Scotsman’s dry wit strikes again…
Aye, full speed ahead, Captain Dullard. Your photon condenser tube might explode, but I think the engines will hold if we don’t enter warp factor eight. Bendova says there is a Klingon ship in this quadrant of the multiverse. Switch phasers to stun! You can use logic to justify almost anything. That’s its power. And its flaw. Let’s make sure history never forgets the name ‘Sannyas News’.
Get ready to repel a Klingon attack!
I tried to warn you. Nobody listened. Now we have a Klingon on board the starship SN. The evil infiltrator has been spotted on the main deck, brandishing a live photon torpedo. The Klingon has tried to disguise himself by wearing an orange robe. But those bumps on his forehead are a dead giveaway.
If you spot the Klingon, do not approach. I repeat, do not approach. Set phaser to stun and contact Spock on the navigation deck.
I’m sorry. I don’t speak Klingon.
Just reading Deva Priya’s book about her time on the Ranch. Amongst other things, she was involved in going to LA to buy videos for the master of masters to watch. Turns out Osho was a big ‘Star Trek’ fan.
“I canna’ change the laws of physics.” — Montgomery “Scotty” Scott
“Knowing oneself is the whole of religion. Anything else is just a footnote.”
( Osho, ‘Om mani padme hum’ )
NP declares, “Just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram.”
When I read that sort of crap, I groan.
Why do you think the rest of the world needs to know? You’re just interested in calling other people’s comments “crap”, especially when it’s aimed at anyone seriously interested in Osho…
NP, it is the sentiment that is behind your comment that is crap.
“Just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram.”
Surrender what to who? That is mindless, sheep-minded bullshit. By Rajneeshpuram, not only was the goose out of the bottle, but the cat was also out of the bag. Osho wanted to give his people a taste of fascism and put Sheela in charge of the shit-show. Numpties like you, NP, surrendered to that nonsense and it was partly because of people like you that the Ranch collapsed.
Had people not surrendered to the likes of Sheela, a person who had never meditated in her life, perhaps things would have worked out better. Instead, there was a colossal waste of disciples’ money, time and a huge amount of energy. Had people had the courage to raise their voices against what was going on, perhaps things would have worked out differently. Instead, people like you kept their mouths shut because they were ‘surrendered’ or maybe just plain scared.
NP, I doubt you have been involved in raising kids, because if you had, you would not need to run off to a wacky commune to find out the real meaning of surrender; you would have found it at home.
Once upon a time, Osho provided the space for people to surrender their minds and egos. It felt pretty real at the time, although in retrospect, imaginations might have been running wild. By Oregon, the surrender gig had turned into a manipulative and coercive device to provide free labour. NP, if you want to surrender to that kind of bullshit go right ahead. Just don’t ask me to call it by any other name than spiritual bullshit or just plain crap.
Just like living in a family can teach one about the meaning of surrender, so could Rajneeshpuram also teach you about surrender. The difference is, in Rajneeshpuram there were actual people talking about surrender and encouraging you to learn the lesson.
Lokesh, surrender is not forever. Learning the meaning of surrendering is a beautiful thing, it can help free you from the mind.
Then when you decide to re-examine where you started from, you have the opportunity to see all the programmed-in rubbish you were fighting against.
Why did the surrendered state feel great? What was that lightness of being all about?
There is a difference between surrender and obey.
I suggest you find a quote.
.
Satchit, a few days ago I heard Osho say something that might clarify the difference between ‘surrender’ and ‘obey.’
He was talking about the possible explanation for Jewish intelligence, expressed by the high percentage of Nobel Prize winners (40%), with the shock of the (barbaric, imv) practice of circumcision to which newborns are subjected, stimulating their intelligence at an early age.
He then expressed the hope that this practice would be extended to non-Jews as well…
I think there’s no doubt that I’m facing the Master of Masters in a space of surrender, yet the last thing that crossed my mind was the idea of following such ‘advice.’ I wouldn’t obey such a practice even if I had a son like Lokesh or Shantam.
From a space of surrender, I can’t help but wonder: to whom was he speaking? To a Jew who wanted to be appreciated for his big head? Or a retarded person from another religion so he doesn’t feel guilty about his stupidity?
With Osho, it’s always like this; you can never get too distracted by clinging to his words, as if they were orders…a constant provocation that only love, the intelligence to remain receptive, with an open heart, prevents from behaving stupidly.
The question, then, is how was it possible for a precocious rebel against Judeo-Christian beliefs like me to obey a discipline that involved hours and hours of meditation techniques, White Robe celebrations in the four corners of the world, private viewings of speeches, book readings, endless and nourishing sharing and hugs with friends on the path?
The answer is ‘surrender’ and certainly not the need to cling to words.
Nowadays, it’s mainstream to blame Osho for using hypnosis, as Shantam recently parroted. He reads everything floating in the web’s cesspool, sometimes directly reading the ink streaks left on no yet dissolved pieces of shit.
But no criminology manual contemplates the possibility that someone can obtain obedience through hypnotic trance, making the subject act in trance against their goals, those established with the hypnotherapist during the initial interview, where a price is agreed upon to achieve a possible result in about 45 minutes.
The session can be interrupted at any time if the client feels their trust in the therapist is weakening, as the therapist is moving away from the initial agreement.
Meditation is the opposite of dreaming that someone can solve my problems.
NP writes about, “Anyone seriously interested in Osho.”
The old man would have laughed about such sentiments. NP, you copy and paste so many Osho quotes. I’m seriously interested to hear what Osho had to say about seriousness. PS, you are fast asleep.
But let’s go a little more into why you think “living in surrender” is crap, then shall we? I’d say that in the end you can’t do anything else, BUT live in surrender. Accepting that which is wholeheartedly is the only way to inner peace.
For someone conditioned to make his own way in the world, this can be hard to swallow. The usual cliches “you have to be tough to make it in the world” and “men don’t cry” and “he who isn’t strong, has to be smart” that get thrown around in childhood can mark you as a person, and living in surrender is difficult.
Learning to float down the river, as Osho said many times.
NP, now you are starting to copy Satchit and that other arsehole by distorting my words.
I never said “living in surrender” is crap. I think your comment ‘“Just live in surrender, as you had the option to do in Rajneeshpuram.” is crap. And if you can’t understand why, you have a problem. End of story.
It is a pity you can’t take a good psychedelic…good meaning something to lift you out of your body-mind complex. It is still one of the best ways to truly understand what surrender means. I understand you are on meds that prohibit such activities. As I say, pity.
A month ago, Shantam sent me a link from a Ms.Robbins, in audio as well print format. I encouraged him to post it on SN for an open discussion.
Somehow, I am guessing that the book Lokesh is referring to is also on the same topic – some kind of abuse.
I cannot digest that any being – child/adult – can not be aware of the touch/action in the first instance, if someone is enjoying it, only then can one allow it. This lady said she was abused for more than 2 years – how is it possible that it is allowed, it has to be mutual, then it means it is with consent; after 40/50 + years, ridiculous, one wakes up to tell the victim story.
Btw, that audio had more advertisements than the interview, I listened to the full video. Either both the interviewers & interviewee were having a transactional relation or the interviewee has not yet got out of her victim mode & then one fine day she will say, “I didn’t know what was happening, they made money out of me!”
Somehow now I can’t relate to Ignorance/unawareness, getting Brownie points for supposed Innocence.
Anyway, I may not be fully right about my observation.
Kavita, you are referring to Erin Robbins’s open letter. Shantam contacted me about it. He was all fired up, but did not realise he was new to a piece of quite old news, a bit frayed at the edges.
I have read the letter a couple of times. Osho got a bit freaky with poor wee Erin. So what? They were both consenting adults. Getting over-interested in an Indian guru’s sex life is not my cup of chai. First of all, it’s none of my business.
Of course, traditionally, a guru having sex with his female disciples is a big no-no taboo. But Osho was not a traditionalist in this respect. Personally, I could not care less about any of it.
Yes, Lokie.
“First of all, it’s none of my business.
Of course, traditionally, a guru having sex with his female disciples is a big no-no taboo. But Osho was not a traditionalist in this respect. Personally, I could not care less about any of it.”
Totally agree with this.
Can’t help accepting Shantam’s take but definitely can’t resonate with such a sentiment.
Can’t help accepting Shantam’s take but definitely can’t resonate with such a sentiment of his.
I’ve come to largely agree with you about Erin’s letter, Lokesh. At first I was a bit shocked by it, but the fact that they were both consenting adults means there isn’t that much to it. The website of the letter talks about the power differential, but that kind of thing and worse is done by men in positions of authority all the time.
Nityaprem, Lokesh’s word on the Ranch events is as credible as a three-and-a-half-euro banknote. This doesn’t mean the Jewish ice cream maker’s book is more credible than Lokesh’s, the paradox of the liar squared: I’m a liar and she’s a liar.
You can’t infer anything from the judgment of an unreliable source, one way or another.
By his own admission, those sitting in the back row should shut up…but Lokesh loves to contradict himself, something he admires in Osho and identifies with…the problem is that Osho’s contradictions serve to demolish the intellectual structures that prevent the emergence of essential things, while he simply revels in the social ruins he has created.
As a corrupt child of post-modernity, like many, he loves to ride the nihilistic spirit as an alternative to Viagra, the will to power necessary for him to sell paintings to people like Kavita and Shantam, impressed by such (im)potence.
NP, Osho has been dead for decades. The past is a graveyard, full of rotting bones. I don’t want to drag those stinking bones into today.
My partner just finished reading ‘Breaking the Spell’. Sounds like quite a good book.
My partner was saying yesterday evening that the years she spent in Poona One were wonderful and that is how she remembers Osho…a fun and fascinating guru.
She also said, “Thank God, I never went to Rajneeshpuram! What a shit show!”
You’re still spewing your judgments and your fecal matter fascination all over SannyasNews.
If you truly wanted to remember Osho as a fun and fascinating guru, then you wouldn’t have any objections to people celebrating him.
Fuck! Nityaprem, weren’t you too harsh on him?
Perhaps he wasn’t expecting such direct expression from you.
Are you attending Veeresh’s school?
A kick like yours deserves a black belt in “fuck you”…if he still had hair, you’d have parted it in the centre.
I think he’ll spend a long time licking his wounds before he can coordinate his facial muscles and come back with one of his fake smiles.
The latest bullshit he wrote, in my opinion, is tied to his intellectual debt to Papaji’s stinking bones, which he continues to drag around, for his magic formula of self-indulgence: if everything is one, how could I hurt someone who is part of me? Is it my fault if they’re ignorant, stuck in their ignorance?
Yet, if he were a little more honest, he should apply to Papaji, the initiator of many neo-Advaists criticized for abuse of power, the same criterion applied to Osho, that one of someone has been dead for decades.
NP declares, “In Rajneeshpuram there were actual people talking about surrender and encouraging you to learn the lesson.”
And what lesson was that exactly? Whatever lesson it is, it does not seem to have done you much good, content to be viewed as Mr Nice Guy, changing your mind whichever way the wind blows, talking about subjects as if you know all about them, when you don’t, unable to put into practice all those wonderful things you’ve read about in Osho books, and the beat goes on.
NP, you are like a dog with a surrender bone…chew, chew. I already told you I have nothing more to say on the matter. You twisted my words. Okay, you can do that if there is a need, which obviously there is.
It could be the case that you go on brainwashing yourself for the rest of your life about this spiritual path you are dreaming about walking on. Otherwise, it will take you some time to wake up to the fact that you are dreaming your Osho dreams in La-la Landia, and you are simply going nowhere with it. Reading books is not the answer. You have fallen into a trap of your own making.
We all have different things to do down here on this crazy planet. It is enough to take care of one’s own business. So carry on regardless, NP. I just felt compelled to mention that I see you are utterly stuck. I recognize it and therefore it is okay to mention it. Be my guest and keep copy and pasting those Osho quotes you are so identified with. A pretty harmless preoccupation, I daresay.
You will not hear from me directly for some time. I know when what I write is disturbing someone’s sleep. Adios for now. End of story.
I won’t lose any sleep over this, Lokesh, it’s a very minor part of my day, although with the very hot weather I find myself awake anyway. You’re welcome to keep projecting.
The reason I put up a few Osho quotes is because I come across them in his books and I find them touching or beautiful, and I want to celebrate what he says. Sometimes the context is too long, and the quote would have to be literally pages of the book, and then I don’t bother. But it has nothing to do with you.
The fact of the matter is, you know nothing about the state of my mind or being, what of Osho’s teachings I have been able to put into practice, how my meditations go, or my spiritual state. Which is fine, I am not interested in discussing those things here. I just want to make you aware that you are projecting things that may be very different in reality…
Just because you have decided for yourself that the spiritual path does not exist does not mean that you are right. The door to the mystical experience that is closed to you, except for the occasional peek with the aid of psychedelic drugs, may be open and available to others.
“I want to celebrate what he says”
Sorry, that happens in every church.
They celebrate what Jesus said.
No wonder that Lokesh freaks out.
Hmm, wouldn’t you agree that what Osho says deserves more exposure than what is in the Bible?
NP, I like it when you sometimes share an Osho quote.
Why not? It’s a Sannyas list.
I wonder only why this Sannyas slang word of “celebrating” is needed for this?
Lokesh´s Osho was not a tradionalist, his mastery was to produce New Man through Oral.
His life was dedicated to oral. When someone does not walk his talk, all his talks can be described in one four letter word…Oral….
That’s an interesting point, Shantam. It bothered me for a while as well, Osho not being in his actions exactly at one with the things he described in his discourses. The does-he-walk-his-talk approach.
But after a while I realised that I was still trying to judge Osho as an ordinary human being. Osho was anything but ordinary, and in a way you could say that in his discourses he was a hollow bamboo touched by the superconscious mind, while in his everyday life he was more ordinary.
He definitely had more than one aspect to him, he was not always the master of masters who sat and gave discourses. But I think he was entirely aware of this and could guide the process of what was happening within him.
Nityaprem,
For small animals, elephants and tigers are quite impressive, almost Avataras.
To achieve extraordinary success, one must have some Black Swan effect.
Rajneesh Jain or Nicola Tesla or such extraordinary minds are rare, their rise and fall also is splendid.
Mr Master was the master of Emotional Exploitation. He was selling Hypnotic talks as one of Pyramid Scheme operator and consuming hard stuff.
Sorry to say, i won´t add him in the list of Buddha, Jesus, Mahavira etc.
“Sorry to say, I won’t add him to the list of Buddha, Jesus, Mahavira.” A virtuous Sikh (for lack of pussy)
I wonder how Shantam can be so sure that one day evidence (DNA) won’t surface that disproves his list of sexually repressed saints.
If he’s truly so sorry to discover that his former teacher doesn’t meet the ethical standards of his Sikh culture, why is he only saying it today, after 15 years spent collecting evidence that would have displeased him?
Hypocrite.
A mortal karmic sin is sowing discord in a spiritual community.
Spiritual community in the world of Osho!
Neither Pizza is left nor the Pizza box!
Little bit of a smell is there on the bench of a public park!
Sw.Francesco,
Come out from your delusions. If you contemplate over this word ‘Delusions’, one day you might feel gratitude not for your Late Osho but a common disciple like you.
Would you, Shantam, be the common disciple like me toward whom I could feel gratitude?
What would your discipline be?
Ring the doorbell every Sunday morning to bring me into Jehovah’s enclosure?
Thought experiment:
I buy a ticket to New Delhi and then travel by train to Punjab. I enter a Sikh temple full of worshippers, dressed like a tourist, climb to the highest point where everyone can see me, and begin preaching in a deep, confident voice: “I too once deluded myself about my guru, believing he was a good person, but then a former Sikh explained to me that a true guru, truly compassionate, must repress himself sexually and give common disciples a better chance with girls.”
Do you think I could earn gratitude (if I leave the temple alive)?
Do you think I only have to persist for about 15 years to save at least one soul?
How many followers of Guru Nanak have you managed to awaken from the delusion?
Why are you so interested in the fate of Osho’s disciples?
With billions of Christians, billions of Muslims, billions of Hindus, 500 million Buddhists, 420 million animists, 400 million followers of traditional Chinese religions, 300 million Sufists, 100 million followers of Sikhism, Judaism, and Baha’i, 9 million Jehovah’s Witnesses, 5 million Jains, 600,000 followers of Yazidism, 250,000 followers of Ron Hubbard, 60,000 followers of Mandaeism, 800 followers of Samaritanism…Shantam, why me? I mean, what did Osho do to you?
Trust me, Shantam, it’s only a matter of time. As Freud taught, after the oral stage comes the anal stage, and finally the genital stage.
Since Osho was a little more evolved than his disciples, it’s possible that while you were experiencing the oral stage, he was experiencing the genital stage.
But Osho doesn’t ask you to overcome the third stage by practising abstinence; simply try not to obsess over other people’s oral sex.
There are older spiritual traditions that have had the wisdom to preserve the fruits of the master’s oral spiritual legacy by writing everything in clear letters in a sacred book, so that misunderstandings don’t arise and the fruits don’t rot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R1qVaJ6dG0
Veet,
Maybe I come here on this forum to share due to some commune nostalgia or could be for catharsis or probably have nothing better to do in this moment, just like all of us here!
Thank you really for your suggestion. Seems you know about me through my SN posts. Just to let you know I have had a good companionship, intense love & sex life with my partner which I cherish & can live with this all my life, we are definitely connected telepathically & guess that’s enough for both of us now!
Btw, we did experiment living together again after a gap of fourteen years in 2008 for a year or so, we did go on holidays in the years in that gap, but frankly, I guess we both realized we are loners intrinsically & now are both enjoying living life on our own.
Kavita, your nostalgia is strange…you always seem to be compliant with what Lokesh says, a man who fights with all his remaining strength against giving in to nostalgia for the past, which for him begins after five minutes, consistent with the cognitive decline of a man his age.
Regarding your suggestion about the contribution you feel you can make to a virtual community inspired by the presence and spiritual teachings of Osho, equating boredom, the need to share, and the need for catharsis, it makes me wonder about your spiritual intelligence.
Evidently, after the catharsis you share on the forum, you give the best of yourself privately to your partner.
Btw, Veet, I am not concerned if I am compliant with you or anyone else, in that moment where there seems to be compliancy doesn’t mean we have to merge 100% in each and every matter.
You make me feel like I am your kindergarten teacher.
Anyway, I have taken into notice SD’s post in which he shared your email. Probably it’s shared so we can do such banter/discussion on our own, instead of using this forum!
MOD:
No, Kavita, that post of Veet was placed close to one of yours at his request as it had ended up quite far away so might not have easily been seen to be connected to yours.
Kavita, if you want to share privately with me, you can (I just need to find the password…it’s been a while since I opened that account).
You may have noticed that I almost never use a club with you. I always suspect you’re a very loving person, in the very discreet, almost circumspect way an Indian woman interacts with a man, even a non-Indian one.
I believe that you, Tan, and some other groupies/fans of the bullying group are partially responsible for the fights that have occurred on this forum, causing many honest and compassionate sannyasins to leave, discouraging who knows how many others from participating in this sharing of spiritual bread.
Perhaps outside the forum you know or are friends with some of the assholes in question. Maybe in real life they’re different from how they portray themselves here. That’s not my case; I don’t know them, I can only apply the principle that they could feel what they write.
I’m sorry to tell you this, it makes me feel like a hospice caregiver, I’d love for you to connect with the innocence of your inner child.
You sound hilarious, Veet – Innocence of your inner child!
If need be, shall connect on caravansarai messages with you.
Maybe we exchange some recipes!!!!
I am more or less sure the readers of sannyasnews don´t read the comments, only scroll casually, if they read, mental balance could get disturbed.
The side-effects of the thoughts of a deceased Indian guru are obvious.
Rajneesh aka Osho deserved to be uprooted as a tree with green leaves but poisoned fruits.
”Rajneesh aka Osho deserved to be uprooted as a tree with green leaves but poisoned fruits.”
Shantam Iqbal, I thought that you thought Rajneesh aka Osho deserved to be uprooted as a tree with poisoned roots & juicy fruits!
Shri Rajneesh aka Osho, the founder of “Synthetic Spirituality” was not a traditionalist, so if he indulges in Sex, why the fuss?
After all he was a man, man with a text book characterstics of a sociopath & Narcisstic traits.
I wonder time and again, how this Indian lecturer could penetrate the rational mind of western people. Thanks God, impact was eradicated because Greedy & Lusty Mystic (GLM) wanted to have all the cakes that others too must pay for!
”After all he was a man, a man with text book characterstics of a sociopath with Narcisstic traits.” Now I am wondering if this is too late to realize that!
It is never too late to open the cupboards and see skeltons falling….
In spiritual intelligence there is no scope for Dead Men walking.
Don’t commit blasphemy (Beadbi), Guru Nanak doesn’t like being called a “stupid zombie.”
Sleep with the light on…if that doesn’t help, call Kavita.
You’ve been on this forum for 15 years, retracing your steps on the path of sannyasinhood, initially directing your sarcastic skepticism at the OIF managers and then at the Master’s genitals and his bank account.
The two phases are intellectually contradictory, because the first presupposes a defense of the values-vision implicitly attributed to Osho, which the managers allegedly betrayed, while the second phase, accusing Osho of lust and greed, implicitly exonerates the managers morally for their lustful and greedy behaviour inherited from the Master.
So, Shantam, if you had any spiritual intelligence, you’d recognize that it makes no sense to criticize disciples who share the Master’s vision and, in case, if you criticize the Master’s vision, you should point out the spiritual alternative.
If the alternative is the Sikh’s vision, learn to apply a little healthy skepticism to those beliefs as well, and don’t come here flaunting your spiritual superiority, like that other Scottish idiot who can’t shake his Jewish hypnotic trance.
By chance got this discourse, don’t remember posting such…thought & felt to share now:
https://oshoworld.com/come-come-yet-again-come-12
Is there a relationship between spiritual intelligence and the ability to understand the world we live in?
If overcoming prejudice toward strangers is part of spiritual intelligence, wouldn’t acknowledging that we’ve trusted the wrong people who have harmed us be equally intelligent? Doesn’t learning from one’s mistakes and then sharing build the same trust as overcoming prejudice, in this case positive prejudice (Bill is a billionaire philanthropist and can’t hurt me)?
And yet, even here, among Osho’s disciples, as in the rest of prejudiced society, I don’t see anyone admitting to having been fooled by some friend of Epstein.
https://ilsimplicissimus2.com/2026/06/30/batracomiomachie-sotto-il-sole/
Shantam I SIngh says:
27 June, 2026 at 8:40 pm
“Spiritual community in the world of Osho!
Neither Pizza is left nor the Pizza box!
Little bit of a smell is there on the bench of a public park!”
Shantam, your such statements make me melt!
“Not all battles are fought for victory. Some are fought simply to tell the world that someone was there on the battlefield.”
When I read this I thought of you
“Is there a relationship between spiritual intelligence and the ability to understand the world we live in?”
No, there can’t be between the two, because spiritual intelligence comes only when one is unable to understand the world!!
In a certain sense, what you say rings true to me, Kavita.
Understanding the material world passes through space-time coordinates, thus respecting the law of logic, confirming the principle of causality.
This requires a certain discipline, honesty, adaptability, or in a word, intelligence…but these don’t seem to me to be qualities distant to spiritual research.
It rings true, Kavita, only if you recognize that not all those who intelligently dedicate themselves to spiritual research live frustrated, due to a lack of tools for understanding, in the material world…otherwise, one might hypothesize that spiritual intelligence is the effect of a form of bypassing of material reality, in which we feel inadequate.
My common sense tells me spoon feeding is not feasible in such matters!
Sorry, Kavita, I posted the wrong link…not the one I iintended.
Speaking of how spiritual intelligence can or can not help us sannyasins understand the world around us, the link I mistakenly posted is still relevant, because it refers to how the media these days are reporting alarmingly about summer temperatures while ignoring the European military and economic disaster in Ukraine and runaway inflation.
The link I wasn’t able to paste, which I’m posting below (select the translation at the top right), also concerns the media’s misleading role in understanding what’s really happening in the world.
More and more data is accumulating, not only from private researchers but also from public institutions, demonstrating that COVID-19 was a bio-military operation, involving the experimental use of nanobiotechnologies, with the now-proven “side-effect” of blood clots in the human body.
I don’t want to spoon-feed you the answer, but since your attention has caught my question, which wasn’t specifically addressed to you, I ask you why even people like you, who don’t believe in God, presumably inspired by an iconoclastic and rebellious Master, first allowed themselves to be foolishly manipulated by Goebbels-esque propaganda and then proudly denied that this ever happened.
I don’t recall any intelligent and honest contribution from you on this forum during the pandemic, when the vast majority of the world’s population placed their bodies at the disposal of existentially squalid characters, friends of criminals protected by the secret services, puppets of the military-industrial complex, a fortress defending the system of financial rentiers.
https://ilsimplicissimus2.com/2026/06/29/falsi-allarmi-per-nascondere-quelli-veri/
Sw. Veet Francesco,
You are the intellectual swami on this site. I am looking forward to an article written by you. Let me suggest the topic, ‘Spiritual And Psychological Reasons For Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh To Wear The Name ‘Osho’.’
Intellectual honesty starts from oneself and one´s cherished beliefs!
Dear Mr Editor, please bring the above comment at the end, in case you don´t delete the very vital question.
MOD:
At the end of what, Shantam?
Hi Shantam,
Assuming you’re genuinely interested in reading an article of mine and not just curious about how I might amuse you by confirming the arguments crowding your consciousness, those prejudices that push you towards your well-known ironic skepticism about Osho & Friends, I don’t understand why I should be intellectually dishonest if I write things different from what you expect.
Do you think if you asked Lokesh the same question, he’d answer more honestly than me, contradicting what Osho himself said about this?
It seems to me that Osho died peacefully, as he lived, unconcerned with the judgment people like you might have had if he’d changed his name, or with the judgment of others if he’d continued to call himself “God.”
It seems he was primarily concerned with you being free to love whoever you want, just as he was free to welcome you into his garden, with the same joy he dedicated to all his spiritual children.
I’m sorry that there’s no trace of that joy left in your life; I don’t think it’s due to Osho’s name change.
I think you lack the gratitude and humility of a dog, the kind he seems to express when cared for by a human. You seem more reminiscent of a cat, who, when cared for by humans, thinks he is the only god.
Perhaps, rather than a psychologist, your question should be addressed to a veterinarian, an expert in animal behaviour. I have no idea why you feel like a cat, but the reason for your envy for the most beloved cat in this sangha seems very clear.
I enjoy the silence in this Chat, while the fascism of conformity triumphs throughout the decadent West.
In times of war, silence is necessary for propaganda to resonate in all its arrogance, but not in this forum, at least not for a while.
The battle to repel the attempt to neutralize Osho’s vision, reducing it to a metaphysical philosophical reflection, seems won.
Although it doesn’t seem like a great victory, while a terrible genocide is taking place in Gaza and people continue to die like flies in Donbas in a war intended to counter the end of a US-led geopolitical system.
There’s little to rejoice about when we can’t counter or disturb the actions of those who seek to resolve yet another systemic crisis of capitalism with world war (a financial world no longer able to suck the blood of the real economy, now indebted, socially disheartened to the point of feeling powerless, having nothing left to lose except life…).
For the financial world and its watchdogs (the military-industrial complex), it’s a win-win war, knowing full well that an atomized humanity, spoiled and weakened by decades of unbridled and cynical individualism, is no longer capable of attempting any resistance to their agenda, having lost the overall vision of reality: the fleeting event of a common human destiny, in the small, confined space of a planet.
Now, a few words that challenge the silence imposed by the propaganda of the psychopathic masters of the world — then silence, please! You greedy, heartless little pieces of shit, speaks the Master of Masters:
“BELOVED OSHO, IN THE LAND OF MONEY, POWER, DESIGNER DRUGS LIKE “ECSTASY” AND ENLIGHTENED INSURANCE, MANY OF YOUR SANNYASINS ARE NOW WORKING, WITH A JOB, AND EARNING THEIR LIVELIHOOD. LAUGHTER, A SENSE OF HUMOUR, AND A DEEP LOVE AND GRATITUDE TOWARDS YOU, KEEP US ALL CONNECTED WITH EACH OTHER SOMEHOW. WITH YOUR PEOPLE IN THE WORLD NOW AND PHYSICALLY SO FAR AWAY, HAS YOUR WORK WITH US TAKE ON A NEW SIGNIFICANCE?”
OSHO:
“It has certainly taken on a new significance, a new turn.
I always wanted my people to be in the world, occasionally coming to me, being with me, refreshing themselves, then going back again to the world — because the world has to be changed. We are not the ones who renounce the world.
All the religions have been teaching, “Renounce the world.” I teach you, transform the world.
Renouncing it is sheer cowardice, and by renouncing it, nothing significant happens – the world goes on living, producing new generations in the old pattern. And the persons who have renounced the world – they also don’t go through a transformation, for a simple reason that they lose all opportunities where they can test whether they are growing or not. You can sit in the Himalayas for a half a century and you will feel silent, but that silence is not yours; it belongs to the Himalayas. Everything is silent, eternally silent, and there is nobody to disturb you.
Just to get out of the situations where you get disturbed does not mean that you are retaining peacefulness; it simply means you are running away from situations where you are certain that your peace will be disturbed. Renouncing the world has never been my idea; it was always to change it.
Millions of people are suffering, and suffering for stupid reasons. It is absolutely inhuman to turn your back on it and move to the mountains or to the deserts to live peacefully there. That peace is very cheap, very superficial; it has almost no meaning. Just come back to the world and it will be disturbed, it will be shattered into pieces. And that will be immensely significant to awaken you, that what you have been thinking of as peace, silence, has been just a dream which is shattered by the reality, just as a mirror is shattered when hit by a rock…and it is shattered forever. That mirror you cannot put together again, and all those years that you were enjoying the idea that you have achieved peace have gone down the drain.
So my idea has always been: come to me to rejoice, come to me for a holiday. Come to me for pure joy. Be filled with the fragrance, be filled with my presence, then take it back into the world. There is the real test: whether it remains with you or not. If you want to keep it, spread it, share it, and it will grow within you. But whenever you feel somewhere stuck, not growing, I am available – come back to me, be with me. When you feel the clarity again, go back to the world.
If you start living with me you will be a loser on two counts. One: you will by and by start taking me for granted — which is a great loss, because I will be available to you. It is dangerous, because the more I am available to you, the less you will become available to me.”
https://oshoworld.com/beyond-psychology-17
Not all spiritual intelligence seems to be directed toward the good of humanity, pursuing peace, harmony, beauty, justice, love…
If there are and have been Masters who have made spiritual knowledge accessible, enabling us to free ourselves from the pain of ignorance, upon which the power of religious institutions (often at the service of sovereign secular institutions) was founded, then what is the true purpose of secret societies that select their followers to share esoteric knowledge under the bond of secrecy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY5b75Mw7V8
P.S:
For non-Italians:
While you read the automatic translation, listen to Professor Mauro Belardi. For example, at 6:30, it seems to me he says “essoteriche favole” and not “esoteriche favole” as translated below. It would also make no sense to speak of the “esoteric content” of a popular work by M. Blavatsky in a context that criticizes the secrecy of spiritual knowledge.
Other errors include, in 2-3 cases, “16th century” translated as “10th century” and “gnostico” translated as “agnostic.”
Also pay attention to the titles of the books cited and the names of the authors.
In any case, if there are any poorly translated words that hinder understanding, just ask.
P.P.S:
In Philosophy and Theology Gnostic, the Ilici, Psychic and Pneumatics represent the tripartition of humanity based on the nature of the soul and its bond with the divine.
The subdivision is divided into:Ilici (from Hyle, matter/earth): They are the individuals totally dominated by the body and material instincts. Being bound to the sensible world, they are considered incapable of salvation and destined for annihilation.
Psychic (from psyché, soul): They represent the middle way, that is, people with intellect and free will. They can choose between good and evil, and through faith they can get a limited form of salvation.
Pneumatics (da pneuma, spirit): They represent the pinnacle of spiritual evolution. They possess an inner divine spark, comprehend supreme knowledge (gnosis), and are the only ones destined to return to the spiritual realm.
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Kavita, the “Lokesh truth” you persist in defending is based on a monologue that first asserts a verifiable criterion (being in the front row with respect to the facts; for him, the events in Pune were those of a disciple who loved his Master) and then disregards it (Lokesh wasn’t at the Ranch to be able to claim that Osho was a horny drug addict).
There’s no need to invoke Socrates or Freud to decide the irrelevance of your contribution, other than to convey your solidarity to Lokesh and direct your hostility toward whoever you believe is behind my comments.
You simply had to share your direct experience to avoid the chicken coop effect of an Indian Beauty Parlour.
Otherwise, one might deduce:
1) that you were a direct (front row) witness to the things Lokesh alludes to but you don’t want to/can’t talk about them;
2) that you missed an opportunity to shut up.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lZ5Cb4wY1NM
Nityaprem, isn’t it endearingly funny how our old friend tries to save the wrinkled hide of his ego by crawling from one topic to another?
He was cornered by his accusations of corruption against Osho that before drowning under the weight of such bullshit weighing down his bighead, eagerly clung to your lifebelt of changing the topic, which you had so mercifully thrown him before Kavita’s lifeboat pulled him out of the mess he’d gotten himself into.
So now, as is typical of those who have invested too much in their public image, instead of thanking you, after insulting and excluding me from the climate conversation, instead of thanking you, he shuts you up as a sign of avoidance syndrome: I didn’t risk drowning and I didn’t need your lifebelt.
Well, now that we’ve finished talking about the climate, let’s hear what our ego-hero has to say about the accusations of corruption he keeps making against Osho, even though he wasn’t even sitting in the back row.
Let’s see with what spiritual intelligence the cynical Scot continues to express trust in his obese master and slander Osho and his grateful disciples.
Yet the same rumours about sex could be framed in the context of Papaji and his direct heirs, like Moonji.
At least in the context of Osho, the lineage issue isn’t so emphasized.
Yes, Veet F, there is a bit of back and forth, and I don’t really like it when things get negative. I often just refrain from commenting, in order not to fan the flames of conflict, but sometimes I am tempted to say a few words.
Nityaprem, in this case, your “to say a few words” prevented someone from taking responsibility for his defamatory accusations against Osho.
You probably feel the same compassion I do for an 80-year-old who’s saving his last energies to avoid dealing with an increasingly pressing existential reckoning, but I don’t think a cynical elderly person appreciates this kind of attention; in fact, at the first opportunity, he chased you away like a dog.
Much better, in my opinion, to respect his existential vision of (in)human relationships, and when he pees outside the toilet, don’t hesitate to point it out to him with the appropriate severity that an arrogant person like him deserves.
Veet, for your information! I have never shaped my eyebrows, if I have ever visited an Indian Beauty Parlour in my life it was for a haircut or maybe a head oil massage – well, it’s more than 26 years ago. Now, I cut my hair at home by myself since I don’t like going out anymore for unnecessary things & these days whenever I need a head oil massage I request for it at home, through an app service!
Btw, that was a funny clip!
Well, about!
1) I am not a witness to Lokesh’s/even your/anyone’s any kind of experience. Maybe I speak from my virtual perception!
2) About shutting up, it’s my prerogative, just like it’s yours!
Veet F said, “your “to say a few words” prevented someone from taking responsibility for his defamatory accusations against Osho.”
Do you think he was intending to do that? I would encourage it because I think it would be good for his state of mind. Ultimately the spiritual path requires a good amount of honesty, which means not avoiding what arises out of your own ego.
But he seems absolutely egosyntonic with what he writes, Nityaprem.
When he’s cornered about who’s responsible for the brown trail that comes from his swimsuit when he swims in Osho’s riverbed — and this happens more and more frequently — his narcissism prevents him from apologizing, preferring to play the cynical card of humour. But, being truly cynical, he’s not as funny as a joke you’ve heard before.
It seems unlikely to me that for 15 years he’s been playing the role of the cynical wise old man, a bit rude and a bit of an asshole, who ignores the consequences of his words with the argument that it’s possibly a problem for the audience if they don’t recognize and appreciate Jewish humour, in the name of the father.
I’m happy for you, Kavita, that Osho never molested you, whether he was sober or on drugs, in the Rolls Royce or in the bathrooms of the Resort restaurant, far from prying eyes.
But now I wonder why you’re against him, in the worst way, with sloth…Do you also feel like you’ve strayed too far from the comfort zone of the collective dream of the Indian god? Feeling nauseous and dizzy from flying too high?
Or perhaps just the effect of the “gain function of a virus” escaped from a Ukrainian biolaboratory, in the name of Epstein and his puppeteers?
To give you a little grounding, remember the words of that sweet little song, about where your home is.
Veet, thanks for being happy, so am I!!!
First of all, now I think & feel you & many like you live on a very superficial level of being in a collective dream about a so-called God. Yes, I did too at one time. I have no problem with your or anyone’s dreaming.
It’s natural for many to have vertigo, maybe I was one of them!
I can’t relate to Epstein in any which way. Yes, you are right, I escaped being a guinea-pig for sure in that experiment. But one never knows there is probably some experiment which may be going on which is beyond my knowing!
I just made a song…
“La la laa, there is no real home anywhere, a roof, furniture & technology are part of a dream, even though we can’t live without it Now.”
Kavita said, “I think & feel you & many like you live on a very superficial level of being in a collective dream about a so-called God.”
That’s interesting, Kavita because my experience is that it is society which is the so-called dream. People are chasing money, power, status, or if you will, control and safety and comfort. But really, if you think about it, these things are illusions of the mind.
Once you start observing the mind, many of its behaviours fall away, and you see that society is a construct of the mind – many of society’s foibles are the behaviours of the mind which we have externalised and fallen into following.
I don’t like to talk about God, I prefer to talk about Existence or Nature or the Tao. It feels to me more natural, less like an idealised father figure. But even so, I feel it makes more sense to spend time in devotion than to chase society#s artefacts. It doesn’t really matter in devotion to what, all streams of the divine are ultimately the same.
It seems to me that is man’s purpose in life – to reach a point where he can spend his days in devotion. Whether that is contemplating his gratitude to Existence or chanting mantras to Shiva while sitting on the banks of the Ganges makes no difference.
MOD:
This post from Veet Francesco in response to Kavita’s of June 25, 1.37am, has been moved close to hers in order to make this clear.
sw. veet francesco
151.19.72.201
Submitted on 2026/06/25 at 2:59 pm | In reply to kavita.
sw. veet francesco says:
25 June, 2026 at 1:56 pm
Okay, okay…Kavita, my invitation was to remember and reflect on the opportunities that could be provided by a community that cultivates the model of intersubjective relationship, which shapes human relationships, according to the vision of Osho, who is the anti-God-dream par excellence.
I repeat, against your cynical attempt to ignore, undervalue, or disdain the human potential that blossomed in the garden of the Beloved, that for me He is very relevant today, perhaps more so than in the past, to the extent that the objective conditions of the global community have reduced us to experimental guinea pigs, considered by a narrow elite as “useless eaters.”
I remember it hadn’t always been this way…not that even then there wasn’t an elite of psychopaths who fuelled archetypal energetic entities through human sacrifices (not just Epstein Island, but on a different scale, like the German Bakery in Pune, the Twin Towers, wars, pandemics, etc.), the collective horror that can be awakened in every single consciousness, to which, without meditation, one can react with paralysis or by contributing one’s own horror, befriending the horror, like Colonel Kurtz.
The difference is that today the elite have greater resources and technology for widespread control of their subjects, through an army, organized according to global and local institutions, of lawyers, philosophers, and a few economists who, in the guise of politicians, protect their interests.
It wasn’t my intention to criticize your lifestyle and related survival strategies. Keep crawling when you don’t see too many humans on the streets and avoiding places too close to the memory of the horror of the German Bakery.
Look, Veet, 99.99999(ad infinitum) % you are unrelatable to me, except for mostly avoiding crowds perhaps.
Btw, I livein the very lane where German Bakery is.
Anyway Dear, mostly it’s my bedtime, now.
Look, Kavita, you’re 99.999999999999…% wrong. I avoid people who react to horror the way you do — cynically, seeking social comfort with strong, cartoonish characters who use the same strategy as you, to avoid contacting their own vulnerability.
Why do you keep relating with the beloved’s garden through this forum? Are you sure you don’t want to relate with some tantric Latino male you saw in your youth?
Sleep well, Dear, and leave the light on; it keeps the ghosts away.
NP, yes agree with you mostly, as for me now, even using the word ‘Existence’ is part of my Osho conditioning & is a hindrance in truth, but guess for sheer lack of words we use it. Now I even think & feel all words / expressions are just a catharsis for all humans.
“Religion has two related meanings: it is the belief that one or more divine beings are responsible for the fate of every human life, and it is also an organization in which people of a specific religion can express and share their beliefs. Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Islam are all examples of the different religions that exist in the world, and millions of believers follow the principles defined by their faith. The Latin word ‘religio’ means ‘to bind’ and religion does just that: it binds people, not only in the performance of certain practices, but also in ideas. Most religions have a theory of the creation of the universe, and each has a different explanation of the meaning of life—which is a source of comfort for their followers.”
https://www.frasicelebri.it/argomento/religione/
I propose a reflection on Osho’s spiritual intelligence, between “axiological subjectivism” and “ontological objectivism,” a dichotomy proposed by Professor Zhok as a key to understanding many of the conflicts on this forum, but above all, for him, to understanding the reasons for the crisis of the Western world, following the emergence of post-modern nihilism-relativism.
To avoid casting too many pearls before swine, who continue to rummage around here without showing even a hint of gratitude to the Master of Masters, I propose that this reflection be based on aphorisms on religion (from the same site cited at the beginning of my comment), expressions of cultures, sensibilities, and spiritual intelligences different from Osho’s, whether close or distant from his vision.
Specifically, by asking ourselves whether today’s widespread existential tendency toward a certain cynical fatalism is truly inevitable, given that for post-modern man, there no longer seem to be any unshakeable and eternal Truths, but only transitory and relative opinions about reality, including the spiritual one.
This is the subjective tendency to create a personal system of values, through an often unconscious axiological choice, dictated by the capitalist system of value reproduction, through the hidden god of technology.
Or, whether it is still possible to identify objectively universal and eternal traits of reality, including the spiritual dimension.
This other, however, is a largely minority trend, favouring a spiritual vision of the human being that stems from an ontological choice-responsibility to seek a defined background to the whole, including its mystery (the background of the background), reversing the egocentric perspective so fashionable today, overly concerned with individual success and “fuck off everything else”:
“When a religion presumes to impose its doctrine on all humanity, it degrades into tyranny and becomes a form of imperialism.” (Rabindranath Tagore)
“Only when the world has become honest enough not to give religious lessons to children before the age of fifteen, can we expect anything from it.” (Arthur Schopenhauer)
“The problem is not the freedom of religions but the freedom from religions.” (Pino Caruso)
“If we were to wake up one morning and discover that everyone is of the same race, creed, and colour, we would find some other cause of prejudice before noon.” (George David Aiken)
“Most people don’t seek truths that can be proven. Truth, in many cases, as you said, involves suffering. And almost no one wants to suffer. What people need is a beautiful, pleasant story that makes their existence at least a little more meaningful. This is precisely why religions are born.” (Haruki Murakami)
“Religion is born from the intertwining of wonder and pain that life arouses, and sometimes digs, in the hearts of men. Between these two poles, however, there is no perfect symmetry: the stronger is the second, it is pain and death, and for this reason religion is first and foremost a search for salvation.” (Vito Mancuso)
“Truth is at the bottom of a well: you look into a well and see the sun or the moon; but if you throw yourself down, there is neither sun nor moon, there is only truth.”
(Leonardo Sciascia)
“You see, in these silences where things
abandon themselves and seem close
to betraying their final secret,
sometimes one expects
to discover a flaw in Nature,
the dead spot of the world, the link that doesn’t hold,
the thread to unravel that will finally put us
in the midst of a truth.”
Lines from the poem ‘The Lemons’ by Eugenio Montale.
https://www.studiarapido.it/limoni-di-eugenio-montale-analisi-e-commento
“Religion is an excellent way to evolve, but sometimes it isn’t enough, and in some cases, if misinterpreted, it can even be harmful because it doesn’t help you find what you’re looking for.” (Bruno Scattolin)
“Life is an accomplice, increasing understanding; its dense web slowly traps its prey in a maze of twists and turns until its existence becomes suffering. Only when the heart of man is gripped by pain does he seek freedom. Suffering ignites the search, and the search leads to the truth.” (Cleonice Paris)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGn58XquB1w
A close friend of mine, a herbalist (she, a Colombian, has also tried Yagé, but those trips weren’t great), just shared a video with me:
A man, the plants, the mountains of Trentino Alto Adige, a nature so majestic that it’s conducive to meditation, just one risk…one could do without human relationships, solitude as a vice.
Not just the sea or the lake, I happened to work as a lifeguard in those mountains in the summer, the Dolomites, the valley most celebrated by tourists, Val di Fassa.
A hotel with a pool, quite isolated from the nearest town, on my day off, when I didn’t feel like waiting for the bus, I would walk a few kilometres to Canazei, starting the day with a cappuccino and a hot, freshly baked strudel. Then in the afternoon I would fill my backpack with supermarket groceries that I would cook during the week on my electric stove.
I was a bit paranoid those mornings, walking along the path that runs alongside the still-not-so-busy road. A bear repopulation plan had been underway for a few years, decided by those dishonourable bureaucrats in Brussels…so the paranoia wasn’t entirely unfounded, even though bear attacks on humans are rare; usually, frightened mothers protecting their cubs, like the case, 5 years after, of the runner mauled in Val del Sol by Gaia, real name JJ4, who was later captured with her three cubs.
A man like Fero is sometimes afraid of sudden storms, but otherwise, he’s as wild as a peaceful but rebellious bear, with no desire to repopulate, I’d say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=oRSG0MldwNU
“Just think about these questions — “Who am I?” Do you think you can know it? The very process of knowing involves a duality between the knower and the known. And you are the knower, you can never be the known. It takes a little time to relax and accept the fact that “I am” without ever bothering about “who am I?””
( Osho, ‘Om Mani Padme Hum’ )
If you think “I am” then you missed it because it’s just a thought.
“I am” is a tautology.
Who am I ?
https://youtube.com/shorts/I7zsfIBNsOE?si=vlNoQt6NsbihRi4D