Compassion for the man Osho, by Nityaprem

Nityaprem writes:
I thought I’d write a bit about the various stages I went through after I started commenting for SannyasNews, so here is a slightly longer article on that…
It seems that these days most sannyasins live without the support of a commune, and so our opinions of Osho are also adrift from a steady anchor. Osho was different things at different points in his time with us, starting as the Acharya, becoming the Master and later being the spiritual friend, but he was also a very gifted human being. It struck me that for many current, ex-sannyasins and post-sannyasins here on SannyasNews we see him in different ways, and for a sannyasin to join in the discussion requires a certain gumption.

 

In the years following ‘Wild, Wild Country’ coming out on Netflix I found Osho’s negative media image frankly to be a burden. The social media pushes its images at you, and in dealing with it you necessarily pick up some of the archetypes: sex guru, cults, diamond watches, ninety-three Rolls Royces…It distracts you and turns you away from the Buddha Field. I was in that situation, wondering if I should continue as a Buddhist seeker instead. I still had things to learn.

Then came my time at SannyasNews, which was a bit intimidating, and some of the following re-evaluations here have been negative in tone: Erin Robbins’s letter about her sexual relations with Osho was quite painful, the talk about abuse in the communes, and reading ‘The Guru Papers’ as recommended by some here also shook me up a bit. There was quite a lot of soul-searching on my part after that education. Was Sannyas a cult?

In the end I felt a moment of choice, where rather than becoming disillusioned I ended up following what my heart said, and turned my back on all the negative talk about Osho — I went back to what I felt about my spiritual friend, because he was always that for me, and after a while I started reading a few of his books again and listening to a few of the discourses. I let all the rubbish disappear from my mind, and reconnected to Osho’s words.

A new appreciation of Osho as a human being went along with that. His insights were beautiful, and every book of his that I read made me more free. He was very extraordinary, and at the same time still human. The master has feet of clay, but in rediscovering him there was a new feeling of compassion towards him. I think a real connection with Osho is a heart connection, and it’s best not to let the mind second-guess the heart’s decisions.

You see, for all that he expressed his sexual nature, and that he had a magpie’s eye for beautiful and shiny things, I think these just showed his human qualities, the things that kept him on the Earth with us. At the same time, he had something transcendent about him, I recall an aura of cleanliness like the light of the full moon from when I sat at his feet; he shared his presence with us, and I feel he had good intentions towards his people. I loved him for that.

Sannyas to me after that is a beautiful gift, an attitude, a way of living. At various points in my life I’ve lived with other sannyasins and I’ve always learned things from it: not to get too hung up on things, to trust a lot (and tether your camel), to celebrate, to laugh more often. Without Osho that wouldn’t have been possible.

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47 Responses to Compassion for the man Osho, by Nityaprem

  1. swamishanti says:

    All I would say is be very careful what you read in the media, any dubious stories of ‘intimate relations’ or otherwise.

    Vishrant was recently removed from Rick Archer’s American ‘Buddha at the gas pump’ series. But he didn’t understand why until recently. There are several videos where he mentions strange circumstances around people he had long ago been in contact with, whom he didn’t have any problems with at the time, with as well as highly suspect stories about Osho. Of course, if they can’t find what they want, they can also invent things.

    Vishrant on Rick Archer and Osho:

    https://youtu.be/Tn057SF23SI?si=PjUPRHOn6-AGRZpS

    Not a lot of people know that Pappaji fathered a child with one of his young female disciples.

    One of his daughters also married a sannyasin, and they produced some grandchildren for him. Pappaji was also Mooji’s guru, who has also been removed from Rick Archer’s Batgap podcasts because of stories that he has polygamous relationships in his commune.

    Osho was asked about his sex life in 1985 and was quite clear that he was not always celibate and he had proved that making love does not destroy enlightenment. He said that his sex life was ‘always consensual of course’ and said he was fortunate that ‘no-one had ever refused him’.

    Comments have been hacked out of this very site, one of Satyadeva’s comments where he mentioned that Barry long had five girlfriends on the go at the same time was removed , as well as one of Parmartha’s comments where he criticised one of the Roman Catholic anti-cult writers who writes any old rubbish , whatever he can find about Osho.

    “Women are divine , women are life , women are jewels . One should always be either among hosts of women or ones own woman . When she is on the breast of a sadhaka in sexual intercourse, then speedily she becomes like the cow of plenty”
    -Devirahasya Tantra

    “Of the guru – even if he be young or illiterate, or addicted to the enjoyment of sense objects, even if he be a servant or a householder – none of these should be considered.”

    Advadhuta Gita

    The Avadhuta Gita , or ‘song of the free’, is considered one of the greatest treatises of Advaita Vedanta and tantra.
    Scholars agree that a spurious 8th chapter was a much later addition to the original text of 7 chapters, and not part of the original song or scripture.

    Many of the pdf`s and books of the Advadhuta Gita available only contain the original 7 chapters and disregard the later addition of the 8th.

    The Advadhuta Gita is attributed to Rishi Dattatreya, is considered by some to be an incarnation of Shiva and one of the originators of Tantra, whilst the Vaishnavas have claimed he is their incarnation. Others say he is a triple incarnation of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. But it is clear from the Advadhuta Gita, that he mentions ‘Siva-consciousness’, he is one who is merged worth Shiva, whether self realised man or incarnation of Shiva.

    Rishi Dattatreya also appears in several Upanishads and is the author of two tantric texts, the Haritayana Samhita and Dattatreya Tantra.

    Btw, I noticed you are able to edit a couple of your comments with logging-in. I brought this up with SD and he hasn’t given you permission to do that but said he trusts you. Some pigs are more equal than others.

    MOD:
    Shanti, if Nityaprem can sub-edit his comments he’s earned that right, as besides not being a troublemaker his articles have made a major contribution to SN’s survival for the last year or two. Your final sentence is therefore completely inappropriate.

    SHANTI:
    I know you don’t mind him doing it, but last time I discussed it with you you told me he had denied doing it.

    MOD:
    As far as I recall NP said that here at SN. Whatever is the truth he’s ok by me, he’s a key contributor, supports the site and deserves some leeway. And, most important, I rarely need to sub-edit his writing!

    You seem always to be on the look-out to cry “Not fair!” imagining some tiny or non-existent threat.

    As is the convention, the editor’s decision is final!

    SHANTI: I have noticed some changes to comments on this site, links I put into a comment such as an article on Bhagawati’s experience of being poisoned in a coffee at Sheela’s residence at Jesus Grove for example was taken out, I had to replace it, and others have noticed their comments have been changed and others gone missing.

    I have noticed other changes are happening elsewhere in the online media regarding Osho, pieces taken out, sentences involving Sheela tampering with tapes being hacked and removed, statements from US officials regarding Osho’s innocence being hidden and taken out, and many other things, hacking, etc.

    But this site has no security either. Please, no more comments inside this comment!

    • Nityaprem says:

      Certainly one needs to take care with accepting what is in the media, it’s one of the reasons why I wrote the article. In the end what matters to me is my connection to Osho, and it was a key moment for me to acknowledge that and let go of some of the other stuff.

      The media is largely a mind- and ego-created echo chamber of who shouts the loudest. Spirituality begins with trying to understand the heart, and one shouldn’t get sidetracked into other people’s arguments.

      I watched most of the video of Vishrant that you posted, and I agree with him that there are quite a few egoic forces trying to prevent the waking up of the human race. It’s not easy if you put yourself out there, you make yourself a target.

      As far as me sub-editing posts is concerned, I don’t know what you saw but I have no familiarity with the moderator interface of the website, I’m not interested in it, and I don’t edit my posts after submitting them to be moderated. No sub-editing going on here, just to be totally clear.

      • Lokesh says:

        NP says, “What matters to me is my connection to Osho.”

        Okay. How does that connection manifest itself and why is it so important to you?

        • Nityaprem says:

          That is not an easy question to answer.

          It has to do with freedom from the mind, with love, with wisdom. Osho’s discourses were the first to hint to me that these things were available, and for that I loved him. And as I said above, I try not to let the mind second-guess the heart’s decisions. He also brought laughter to the spiritual, which was special.

          When I read his books I still sometimes come across a passage that makes me sit up and pay attention, something that speaks to me deep inside. That is why it is important – those things he made clear long ago, they are still significant to me.

          • Lokesh says:

            Ok, NP, thanks for the response.

            • Nityaprem says:

              No problem, Lokesh. I know you have a complex view of Osho, and might not entirely agree with what I’m saying in the article, but I just wanted to talk about my compassion for Osho as a human being.

              There is always the tendency to put spiritual teachers on a pedestal and hold them to the highest standards, but is that justified? Are they not fallible human beings? I once heard that an American teacher said that after realisation the whole world was more vivid, including women and the desire for sex as a man. Go figure…

              Not every guru is going to be like Ramana, who seems to have pretty much left the world after his enlightenment. Just as there are differences between gurus and their enlightenments, so there are differences in their lifestyles.

      • swamishanti says:

        Well, I saw a couple of your comments waiting to be moderated, and then when they came on to the page they had a few extra lines added.

        The last time that happened was around Christmas, there were a few extra lines about Papaji added to your comment which were different to what I could see was waiting.

        • Nityaprem says:

          I noticed the SannyasNews site does not use the https protocol. That means that connections are inherently insecure and can be intercepted, or hackers can pose as you with a man-in-the-middle attack. Maybe that’s what is going on? I use a strong password for this site.

          MOD:
          THanks, NP. I’ve contacted Clive about this, asking for his view and whether it’s feasible to put SN on the https protocol.

    • swamishanti says:

      I’ll just put this link to this article again from Oshonews. It was not just Nirvano (aka Vivek) who was targeted and poisoned at the Ranch, and planned to be assassinated, also Devageet and Amrito(aka Devaraj, George Meredith,John Andrews), Bhagawati recalls being poisoned in her coffee while visiting Sheela’s residence at Jesus Grove:

      https://www.oshonews.com/2020/08/22/return-to-the-ranch/

      There were also other victims of poisoning, other residents of the Ranch that were targeted in various ways by Sheela’s fascist gang; some people were falsely given positive aids tests and sent into the isolation house for those found with aids, and other things. Apparently, Sheela got quite jealous of people.

      Patipada was one of Sheela’s gang who returned to be with Osho later back in India:

      “I have asked myself a thousand times after leaving the ranch – why didn’t I ever say anything. Why didn’t I try to stop what was going on. Why didn’t I try to send a message to Bhagwan and tell him what was happening. I never had an answer to these questions. Only a lot of pathetic excuses that I tried to hide behind.”
      (Prem Patipada : ‘Forever is Not Long Enough’ )

      • Nityaprem says:

        Do you think these things are important? We just visit this world temporarily, coming and going like white clouds against a blue sky…What is better, dying from a cup of poison like Socrates, or sitting while dementia takes your faculties away over years or a decade?

        • swamishanti says:

          I am very transcendental but yes, I do think these things are important: that Osho is remembered more accurately historically, and the real stories from those close to him are preserved.

          What has happened is that many more people have become attracted to Osho in recent years, mainly young people, but are being misled by the attempts by some of the Indian media, who deny that Sheela was involved in any poisoning and try to portray her as some kind of hero; in one youtube video she has even been named the `Leader of the Rajneesh Movement`! So you can see how crazy things are getting.

          And some of the Nepalis who believe she is innocent and the `Resort` is somehow connected to the CIA, are not helping. Swami Anand Arun did not trust the Western sannyasins whom Osho picked to live close to him, I think he got those ideas from Laxmi and possibly Sheela when she visited Nepal in 1985, but he was unaware of what Sheela and her group had been up to during that time, even Laxmi claimed that Sheela had poisoned her juice one day and Arun did not know any of the Western sannyasins well and was not physically present near Osho in Pune Two.

          He didn’t know any of those people. Osho actually told him and Laxmi directly that he had chosen those people in 1986. Laxmi was concerned about Osho`s health in the hands of those Westerners close to him but was not accusing them of working for the CIA. And the whole buisness with the trademark and copyrights disputes, and other issues with the OIF management hasn`t helped.

          People are now being sold a false narrative on Osho, and now Sheela has been promoted all over the media, there is also a cunning strategy by Indian propagandists who are now using Sheela`s version of `Bhagwan`, her books, alongside other ex-sannyasins’ books, to attack Osho. They wish he could do back to the `Acharya Rajneesh` that fits with their religous programming and their comfort zone. At least what they think Acharya Rajneesh was like. In reality the same people wouldn`t have liked Acharya Rajneesh either and he would have engineered ways to clear away those who were attracted to him for the wrong reasons. And he did.

          • satyadeva says:

            “I am very transcendental” – what exactly do you mean, Shanti?

          • Lokesh says:

            Osho once told me that is only stupid people who are concerned about how they will be remembered by people when they are dead.
            Osho wasn’t stupid.

            • swamishanti says:

              He said lots of things to different people. Sometimes he said it didn’t matter what was said or written, other times he said the negative bullshit should be addressed. He asked his lawyer to write a book to ‘clear his name in America’. He asked several disciples to write books, Maneesha James, for example, to give a historical account of events in Rajneeshpuram and afterwards, his arrest with warrant and brief stay in jails.

              He told Neelam he wasn’t the ‘rich man’s guru’. He never said that as part of his ‘new man’ thing, it was just in response to a reporter’s question which he used to talk about ‘Zorba the Buddha’.

              • Lokesh says:

                What? Would you not agree that being concerned about how one will be remembered when dead is absurd?

              • simond says:

                Hi Swamishanti,

                One angle to perhaps explore this issue is to see that the concern about Osho and his memory or legacy is a displacement of sorts. In fact it’s you who are worried and concerned about your own identity and sense of Self.

                Crikey, it’s common enough to do this, we look for justice and fairness outside of us, because we see it lacking in ourselves.

                The problem is only that we are unaware of this and continue our battles seeking solutions in, for example, politics, or in your case, needing to defend Osho and his legacy.

                Turning around this displacement and looking at our own behaviour is a profound challenge, not easy, we are largely ignorant of our own motivations. It’s a challenge I’m constantly exploring and discovering.

                • Nityaprem says:

                  Hi Simond, nice to see you back again!

                  It’s very true, discussing Osho and his legacy is a kind of displacement for those of us who invested so much time and energy into being with him. Admitting that we might have been wrong about him would be a huge blow to the spiritual ego! I’m sure he would have approved, haha.

                  I think for those who still wish to find him, Osho left so many books and discourses that it is almost impossible to read them all in one lifetime. That is the true Osho.

                  Defending him is almost impossible, but I think his words resonate through the ages, and had a profound effect on the counterculture and the internet society.

                  Let’s not take it too seriously….

                • swamishanti says:

                  Hi Simond,

                  Sorry, no, I think that’s total rubbish, not knocking your own ideas of projection but you are misfiring here.

                  Osho’s legacy is nothing to do with my legacy. I don’t have lots of people writing lots of rubbish about me on the internet, or accusing me of crimes I didn’t commit, or books written about me by ex-sannyasins turned US agents who made deals circulating the internet, or crappy Roman Catholic anti-cult teachers or ex-sannyasins holding onto my tail and walking behind me, following me every day but claiming to be beyond me and ‘standing on their own two feet.’

                  I also disagree with some of his ideas about things.

                  But, it is important to me personally that he is remembered more accurately, and the books that he asked to be written by those close to him are shared. That he is remembered for what He was/is, rather than just reactions from those who misunderstood/misunderstand him.

                  As there is a huge amount of misunderstanding about Osho.

                • satchit says:

                  Simon, it is simplistic and egoistic to argue that it is all inner stuff.

                  Fact is also that you devalue Shanti’s arguments.

                  Not all is neurosis, sometimes a fact is a fact.

                • Lokesh says:

                  Shanti says, “There is a huge amount of misunderstanding about Osho.”

                  I agree with that. Shanti, what makes you think that there are certain aspects of Osho’s life that you do not understand? What makes you believe that your understanding is the correct interpretation?

            • Nityaprem says:

              Sounds about right, Lokesh. After all, Osho wouldn’t be around to care, and trying to peer into the future would just be getting away from the present.

              Buddha once said his movement would last 500 years. I think he might be surprised that it is still going strong a couple of millennia later.

      • Nityaprem says:

        What I’m trying to get at, Swamishanti, is that while undoubtedly wicked, the poisonings and the slander of Vishrant are all negative acts. These people are not bringing more light into the world.

        I recently noticed that Eckhart Tolle’s audiobook of ‘The Power of Now’ is available on YouTube supported by a few ads. It has a lengthy discussion of ego and its pitfalls, and is the kind of spiritual book people benefit from reading. Now that is a way of bringing more light into the world.

  2. Lokesh says:

    NP asks, “What is better, dying from a cup of poison like Socrates, or sitting while dementia takes your faculties away over years or a decade?”

    I suppose it all depends on how you look at it. Poison would be quicker for sure.

    One of my closest friends died from dementia some years ago. He was a sannyasin and had led quite an adventurous life. It was strange to watch him go downhill over a period of 14 years. He had been a brilliant and fun guy to hang out with. Things started to go wonky after one too many ayahuasca sessions. He’d also been big on E when that was the thing to do. A mutual friend, a doctor, warned him he would blow a fuse, but he didn’t listen.

    Towards the end, my wonderful old pal, who had once been so vibrant, was reduced to a shuffling shell who chain-smoked. Three years before he died, during one of his clear moments, he said to me, “I’m sure glad I took all those psychedelics because it was a good preparation for what I am going through now.”

    Despite being completely nuts most of the time, most days he seemed to be enjoying going bonkers. Of course, it caused much stress for family and friends. Last time I saw him, I do not think he had any idea who I was, but he pretended he did. His was the strangest fate of all my departed friends.

    • Nityaprem says:

      Touching, Lokesh. I also know a sannyasin friend who is suffering from dementia; it is curious how it causes changes in personality and physical capability, as well as the mental decline the disease is known for. The first time it happens it is shocking and painful to have a once good friend say about you behind your back, “You know, I don’t trust that guy”, but then you realise it’s the disease speaking, and you forgive, you smile and sip your tea.

      But I wouldn’t like to end up in dementia care. We hear stories about eight patients to one carer on a ward, hours spent waiting in the morning to have your diaper replaced and get a wash. I’d prefer to go out with a little more dignity.

      I recently had two uncles die because of cancer; in a way that is an easier way to go because it is only really uncomfortable in the last couple of months, and at least here in the Netherlands you can say at a certain stage, I’m ready to go, give me an injection and, poof, gone.

  3. Lokesh says:

    Yes, good to see the return of Simond. All of you guys have been in my thoughts due to getting the new SN book shipshape and reading and rereading comments. It is shaping up nicely.

    NP says, “Admitting that we might have been wrong about him would be a huge blow to the spiritual ego!”
    That is correct. I know that through experience and a long time ago I had to do a major restructuring of my worldview, which Osho was part of.

    Admitting we were wrong is always a blow to the ego, who always thinks it is right. Admitting you were wrong in guru relationships is even harder because of investments on many levels.

    • Nityaprem says:

      Lokesh said, “a long time ago I had to do a major restructuring of my worldview, which Osho was part of.”

      It puts me in mind of this Buddhist sutra, on the thicket of views…

      “Vaccha, the position that ‘the cosmos is eternal’ is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. It is accompanied by suffering, distress, despair, & fever, and it does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation; to calm, direct knowledge, full Awakening, Unbinding.”
      (The Buddha to Vaccha the wanderer)

      Having a worldview will inevitably lead to a thicket of views, and eventually to the realisation that it is totally irrelevant, that we eventually shed our worldview like a snake sheds its skin, or an actor changes expressions…

      • Lokesh says:

        That might well be true in certain ways. Nonetheless, you still hold a worldview today that apparently includes, “Having a worldview will inevitably lead to a thicket of views, and eventually to the realisation that it is totally irrelevant, that we eventually shed our worldview like a snake sheds its skin, or an actor changes expressions….”

        • Nityaprem says:

          Knowing what things pass like clouds beneath the endless blue sky is useful. If we know that our worldview is a temporary thing, that our likes and dislikes can pass away just as the years can, then we are less likely to hold on to them.

          I saw a near-death experience video on YouTube, about a man who died and found all his worldly cares dropped away in the afterlife, that it was a beautiful place where he got to meet his family again in forgiveness. These kind of experiences change the survivors, who lose all fear of death and look at the world differently afterwards. Another case of a radical change in worldview.

          Holding on to things is a source of suffering. In a way, suffering is your guide, pointing you at places where you need to do a little letting-go.

  4. Nityaprem says:

    Quote for the day…

    “MIND IS A DISEASE. This is a basic truth the East has discovered. The West says mind can become ill, can be healthy. Western psychology depends on this: the mind can be healthy or ill. But the East says mind as such is the disease, it cannot be healthy. No psychiatry will help; at the most you can make it normally ill.

    So there are two types of illness with mind: normally ill – that means you have the same illness as others around you; or abnormally ill – that means you are something unique. Your disease is not ordinary – exceptional. Your disease is individual, not of the crowd; that’s the only difference. Normally ill or abnormally ill, but mind cannot be healthy. Why?

    The East says the very nature of mind is such that it will remain unhealthy. The word ’health’ is beautiful. It comes from the same root as the word ’whole’. Health, healing, whole, holy – they all come from the same root.

    The mind cannot be healthy because it can never be whole. Mind is always divided; division is its base. If it cannot be whole, how can it be healthy? And if it cannot be healthy, how can it be holy? All minds are profane. There is nothing like a holy mind. A holy man lives without the mind because he lives without division.”

    (Osho, ‘Hsin Hsin Ming: The Book of Nothing’)

  5. VeetTom says:

    A little weird or strange sort compassion for Osho, but at least some influence was felt – maybe…

    What do you feel staring at the painting – while listening?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn7_JpmhZP0

    • Nityaprem says:

      I think the painting was him in a more serious mood, VeetTom. I’m not sure it did him justice. I liked the song though, it seemed quite lighthearted. Do you know the singer, Sufjan?

      • VeetTom says:

        I don’t know anything else by this singer/songwriter…but the song is interesting and non-mainstream enough to like it – for me.
        Yes, the painting is strangely empty and dead, a sad way to look at Osho – but it touches the meaningless search for the body. Also the song background sounds create cosmic loneliness in the vast empty space bewteen the stars with no spaceships…

        Lyrics:
        After the storm, we shaved our legs to the skin
        Into the snow, our footprints showed where we’d been
        They gave us names, they said my name means war
        Dwelling in song, the lion and the lamb were restored

        Illumination, accede my need, my Rajneesh
        Hallucination, accede my need, my Rajneesh

        I lit a fire and drank of the breath of his kiss
        My tambourine affirmed by the dance of his wrist
        Mystical star, burn bright like the tail of a dog
        Now we are blessed with the righteousness of the Lord

        Illumination, accede my need, my Rajneesh
        Hallucination, accede my need, my Rajneesh

        I’m on a path of love, I’m on a parrot
        Possess me with prayer on the bluff
        I’m on a task for God
        Entheogen, you lift me within Upanishad

        Bright as a thunderbird singing
        You stare at the sun to see the sublime
        Forgetting the light that makes you go blind

        Osho you ask of us singing
        If courage is love of the unknown
        Consider the powers parading you home

        I’m on a path of love saying
        You stand in the shade to feel it was blessed
        Obscuring from light the seeds you possess

        I’m on a path of trust singing
        Whatever it takes, receive of the light
        The terror will take whatever it likes….

        Credits:
        ‘My Rajneesh’ was performed, recorded, engineered, mixed and produced by Sufjan Stevens with [...]

    • Nityaprem says:

      This image of the older Osho touched me deeply:

  6. satchit says:

    “Without Osho that wouldn’t have been possible.”

    One sees clearly, NP:

    Your trust in Osho has been tested and you did refuse the devil.

    Congrats!

    • Nityaprem says:

      Thanks, Satchit…that’s kind of why I wrote the article, to say that it’s more than okay, it’s actually truthful to choose your heart connection with Osho over what the media say about him. The media is all distortions anyway. It’s better to be at peace about your time with him on this Earth, and allow yourself to feel joy for the beauty of it.

      I’ve talked to a few young spiritual people about Osho, and some are so hung up on the media image that they end up creating arguments, they are parroting the media. I think it’s a shame that these untruths are still circulating, and I admire Shanti’s willingness to fight the good fight. But I don’t partake in that.

      In the end, if you watch the stories from near-death experiencers like this one:
      https://youtu.be/DRc430cTkQk
      Then you become convinced that in the place where we are going, there is no hierarchy, no judgement, and no separation. There are many of these stories, and many of those who experienced them have this glow about them, as if they know. That is the spirit in which I wrote the article.

      • satchit says:

        “I’ve talked to a few young spiritual people about Osho, and some are so hung up on the media image that they end up creating arguments, they are parroting the media. I think it’s a shame that these untruths are still circulating, and I admire Shanti’s willingness to fight the good fight.”

        There is no need to fight, NP.

        If some young spiritual searcher will feel attracted to Osho, it will happen.
        It will happen in spite of the media.

        And if not, it is also okay.
        The world is full of self-help gurus.

        • Nityaprem says:

          I think some of these anti-cult groups go too far, and end up taking some of the light out of the world’s spiritual teachers, it’s a very negative and destructive attitude.

          So whether there is no need to fight is a tricky question. You can choose to spread comments which tell the truth from another perspective, or you can send in quotes and words of wisdom. You decide whether you want to lay the emphasis on fighting disinformation or on spreading the light.

        • VeetTom says:

          “I think it’s a shame that these untruths are still circulating, and I admire Shanti’s willingness to fight the good fight. But I don’t partake in that.”

          Along with your words, Nitya, I remembered the ‘mantra’ of my Christian “initiation”…haha. It went like this:
          “Fight the good fight of Belief.”

          • Nityaprem says:

            Right, VeetTom, and much as I would dislike to say that sannyasins should follow Christians in anything, wouldn’t it be a shame if Sannyas disappeared within a generation or two?

            In a way it disappeared with Osho, because if he isn’t here anymore, who should give sannyas? What is the meaning of being Osho’s sannyasins? It becomes another dead religion driven by his books and lectures.

            • swamishanti says:

              Christians have a particular dogma, which they have historically tried to share and impose on others. A herd-like mentality. Christs teaching was devotional but unsophisticated.

              Like Iskcon, which attempts to push its particular version of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, or Sri Prabhipada’s version, onto as many people as possible, often using food kitchens to lure poor people, giving free food is good but it is a strategy to gain more converts. That is also why they travel to Africa. And I know that Prabhupada encouraged the programming of their dogma onto children, as he knew how easy it is to program kids, something that Osho was against. Sometimes the kids where asked if they wanted to experiment with meditation but it was optional and no dogma was given to them.

              Thi is a very different approach to the majority of non-sectarian Hindus, Shaivism , Shaktism, Smartism and other more mainstream forms of Vaishnavism, which do not attempt to convert people and will even sometimes refuse foreigners access into their temples because they are not born into their caste system. Iskcon devotees are also taught through their books that they are superior to all other types , they don’t want to merge with Brahman, the want to stay separate and get to Vaikuntha.

              This violent attempt to convert others continues in the form of some Roman Catholics and Christians who create ‘anti-cult’ groups and try to trash Osho online, who are themselves in a cult-like, dogmatic mindset that they project onto sannyasins. They are not talking from their own experience but from a belief system.

              They ‘have to do it like this’. ‘They can’t do that’. They are are not allowed to do certain things and they expect everyone else to follow their own rules, their own scriptures.

              They have a particular programming that it is difficult for them to get out of.

              Many spiritual Westerners, particularly Americans, have that strong Christian conditioning that they expect everyone else to adhere too.

              And they have historically, violently forced their beliefs and dogmas onto other people, always interfering and converting people from different spiritual groups.

              Forcing their sexual repressiveness onto the Native Americans and destroying their culture.

              Burning , dunking, drowning and torturing many people, millions of women.

              Stretching women on racks , traction, sometimes until their legs were pulled out and asking them again and again to confess that they ‘had had sex with the devil’. The ‘devil’ was a creation of their own sexual desires. They believed that the devil had a forked penis that could do double penetration( I am not making this up).

              The Roman Catholic archbishop of Goa destroyed the Buddha’s tooth in Sri Lanka with a pestle and mortar. 


              Creating unnecessary fears amongst people.

              Osho was very clever in intentionally not creating a dogma. In that way he can be called the ‘Master of Masters’.


              That is why even if you have many sannyasins who are close to Osho, they can all talk with completely different takes and views on things. They are un ‘cult-like’.

              Below is a photo of an 18th century CE ivory dildo, complete with contrivance for simulating ejaculation and its own discreet cloth bag. The dildo was found hidden in an armchair in a Roman Catholic convent near Paris.

    • Lokesh says:

      Satchit says, “Your trust in Osho has been tested and you did refuse the devil.”
      Am I mistaken, or does that sound like patronizing twaddle?

  7. VeetTom says:

    It’s so easy to think Sannyas is beyond ordinary spiritual religion, but all the same things are possible as with any other movement. We have had enough of that already – and many are tired of it and may have skipped the whole thing – why not? But something may still continue…with some…

    When I opened ‘Sannyas Lost & Found’ I wanted people to share more than just Osho quotes (” I love you” and his 1001 photos) but this almost did not happen. I put up some ads in other Sannyas groups on fbk, but only those came who have had something in common with Saswad, because I used this old fortress pic for the main photo. Those commune stories were told quickly – then: nothing more went on…

    I quit the dead group and let go of all inhabitants/members…but some time later I relaunched it with a new pic that was meant to denote a more general content ;-) & no ads – but NOW:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/sannyaslostandfound

    Come yet come again? Young enough for facebook?

  8. VeetTom says:

    The admin corrects or changes some words of mine which sometimes may be really needed. I like it when it doesn’t change the content – but that may also be unclear at times? I do claim no absolute copyright here, so that’s OK.

    I am puzzled to have an editor trying his best to make a book or magazine out of this (again)? ;-)

    Thanks for having me! (as they say in broadcasted interviews).

    MOD:
    Veet Tom, let us know when you’re unhappy with anything that’s been altered, as it’s occasionally difficult to know exactly what you mean.

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