When Vimalkirti died in early 1981 I was in Poona and remember a few things well. One thing I remember Osho saying was he had not been aware for sometime that Vimalkirti was even a Royal person. He just kept it to himself when he came to the ashram as a seeker. In fact many ashramites also did not know that he was Prince Welf von Hannover, he looked just like your average hippie to me.
I do remember at some previous point that Prince Charles was in Bombay (Mumbei) and that Vimalkirti went to see him at Charles’ request, and ashramites seemed to know about this visit. Technically Vimalkirti was the cousin of Prince Charles.
Of course with an apparently young fit man of Royal birth dying so young it was a nightmare scenario for the Ashram public relations dept! Vimalkirti had collapsed in a karate session whilst training with the rest of the ashram guards. ( He himself guarded Osho’s own room at the time, and Osho declared he was very comfortable with his energy in being the closest body guard.) Fortunately for everyone, an uncle of Vimalkirti collapsed and died in the same way shortly afterwards, and hence it had to be conceded that this was a hereditary weakness between blood and brain. (The sad result of the Royal families of Europe inbreeding).
Osho says goodbye to Vimalkirti
Of the connection to Prince Charles, Osho commented at the time:
“Prince Charles is deeply interested in meditation. He is also interested in exploring the inner world. But in the West, unfortunately, such people are thought to be a little crazy—a little loony….
When Charles was in India, he had specially telephoned Vimalkirti and his wife, Turiya—they both were my sannyasins. Vimalkirti was one of his cousins. Vimalkirti was the great-grandson of the German emperor, and he was directly connected to Prince Philip; Prince Philip was his mother’s brother.
(At the meeting) Charles talked for hours about me, about meditation, about what is happening here (in the ashram). . Vimalkirti and Turiya both invited him to come; he was very interested, but very afraid of the royal family. He was specially told by Queen Elizabeth not to go to Poona. (Whilst in India) He went to see the Shankaracharya, he went to see Mother Teresa, but Queen Elizabeth was more afraid of Poona than anything! ”
Today Prince Charles has never ascended the English throne. Some doubt whether he ever will. Pity he had not thrown in the towel back then, disobeyed his mother’s wishes and gone to see Osho. So near and yet so far!
Parmartha
One more article which supports my assumption that Sannyas has only the past, but no future.
When generations move together, when present exists like a bridge between past and future, it is life in making. Without such, it is the life of a childless widow/er looking at the marriage album.
Even if this were so (which it isn’t), the thing to ask Shantam (or anyone involved, for that matter) is what about his sannyas: Is Shantam’s sannyas alive or not?
I strongly suspect he wouldn’t even understand the question.
I felt like I was living in a large stagnant lake, which felt stagnant because I had outgrown the situation, just before I took sannyas.
Life with Osho has been a river. Sometimes wide. Sometimes narrow. Sometimes easy to negotiate. Sometimes extremely difficult.
Thank you, Osho and me.
1978, Prince Charles goes to Pune. His name is changed to Swami Antar Rajkumar. Antar means inside. Rajkumar means prince.
“Unless you become aquanted with your inner treasures, you have not got hold of your inner kingdom. Once you are entuned with your inner, you are prince; the divine prince.
I see the potential Gautama The Buddha in you.
How long you will stay?”!
“Five days.”
“Ok.”
The problem though, if Prince Charles had actually renounced his claims to the throne and ‘followed’ Osho, would surely have been the inevitable hounding he’d have received at the hands of the media, who’d have made his life a total misery, a virtual ‘crucifixion’ even. He surely realised this and understandably wanted to avoid that fate at all costs.
Such is the trap in which the rich and famous find themselves, particularly in these days of total media saturation. Sarah Ferguson (‘Fergie’), Prince Andrew’s former wife, stayed at Sai Baba’s ashram for a short visit, back in the 90′s, I think it was, and came in for much ridicule as a result.
Then, of course, there’s David Icke, a well-known tv man himself who, although not rich, suffered prolonged character assassination-by-media when he ‘came out’ as not only a (admittedly, at first, rather ‘eccentric’) spiritual ‘seeker’, but also as – heaven forbid, who does he think he is?! – a ‘finder’, someone who’d clearly ‘realised’ one or two things…
But Prince Charles and “The Sex Guru” would have been quite another kettle of fish – just think of the furore that would have surrounded him….
Gilded cage.
Living on benefits is much holier than to be in the Gilded Cage.
Shantam makes yet another lazy, thoroughly stupid comment.
Yes but Buddha ‘did’ it!
Leaving the life of a Prince and becoming a wandering sadhu.
What, in Bihar, 2500 years ago? Don’t think there was a lot of media over there at that time (or maybe even now!).
Absurd romantic fantasy to imagine any well-known person, especially one of the rich and powerful, could manage that in today’s world.
Did you ever, wearing a mala and red, wish the earth would swallow you up, or you could be invisible, so engulfed by stomach-churning self-consciousness had you become?
(Obviously, I have, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to articulate such a question).
（⌒▽⌒）
(The above means ‘laughs ruefully’).
You bet, Arpana, especially during times of personal difficulties. Standing out from the crowd like that wasn’t exactly geared to mask a sense of humiliation, with which I was already too well acquainted. In other words, I felt an utter and total phoney.
First time I’ve ever mentioned this. We never talked about such things. Thanks.
Arps, dearest, why not write a string telling about such experiences? Your English is really good and your writings are easy to understand. We would really enjoy this. Cheers!
Tan.
I wrote something on this theme about three years ago. Will still be there, although I don’t know how to search the back pages.
Hang on, you said, 8.26pm this evening: “First time I’ve ever mentioned this. We never talked about such things.”
Now come on, Arps, one Shantam is more than enough around here, mate….
@ satyadeva 16 March, 2015 at 10:20 pm.
You’ve got me bang to rights, guv.
When I made that remark I was more thinking of at that time, and had forgotten, until Tan made the request, that I’d written something.
People on benefits are the monks of modern-day world. Who knows, they preserve the soul of the West?
Meher Baba would have recognised this.
Oh yeah? Where’s the evidence for this then? Shantam himself? I don’t think so.
He’d better find something else to make him feel like ‘somebody’.
Perfectly correct, Shantambhai!
To beg money from the gora and clean his toilets in a spiritual wasteland is indeed a pious and noble dharma!
And you are right when you say that Meher Baba certainly is a fine patron saint for disability benefit!
To be mentally incapable to hold down a job is certainly an impressive Sadhana!
And your tireless work and discussions as one of Meher Baba’s Masts here on Sannyas News certainly puts you in the clear category of a Mast debater!
Without this selfless and magnificently noble act of signing on the dole, which has clearly preserved the soul of the West, who knows what further horrors may have been visited on the world in this Kali Yuga?
The sages of mighty Bhorat are overjoyed that you have engaged in this noble and heartfelt enterprise in the true spirit of a sadhak and its western equivalent – a sadfuck!
Only yesterday our glorious leader Modi made it clear that along with plastic surgery, space travel, stemcell science, public toilets and comedy, the dole was also invented many moons ago in mighty Bhorat!
For millennia, half-assed layabouts have been loafing about getting a free lunch in the name of religion in our mighty land, but in this age, you, Bhai. have understood Osho’s teachings and like an unemployable Bodhidharma with an impeccable CV of utter failure you have taken this time-honoured wisdom to the West!
You have celebrated everything!
You have indulged and bloated on the 5 tantric maithuna : meat, fish, intoxication, gora girls and Japanese zen porn!
And may the fruits of your extraordinay wisdom continue to light up the West like Divali in the Job Centre!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
I agree.
I’ve been a Mast for many years.
Who are you kidding, you pretentious, deluded so’n'so? If you were a ‘Mast’ the last place you’d be is in front of a bloody computer!
Sannyas pre-dates Osho by several millenia. While Prince Charles cannot now go sit in front of Osho’s physical body, sannyas is still available to anyone interested. Osho is still available to those who seek…and Osho left a multitude of ways to find him. This has been my experience.
Osho called me through his books. Just by reading his books I felt a heart-to-heart connection.
Later, in Rajneeshpuram, when Osho was in public silence, I felt the connection through silence.
Later, in Pune, when Osho was speaking, the connection remained in the silence between the words.
Later, after Osho’s body was cremated at the burning ghats, I continued to feel the same intimate heart connection through books, audio, and video. The silence between the words is still available.
Now I can have satsang with Osho every day. So could Prince Charles. It is never too late for sannyas. Osho is more available now than ever.
A friend of mine once had darshan with Prince Charles. She said she was surprised how small he was and that he had bad dandruff.
She shook hands with him and he asked, “Do you know any Rastafarians?”
She replied that she did, he mumbled something and walked on.
It`s a funny old world.
Master of Commedia Dell`Arte !
Samarpan, is your daily satsang with Osho different than billions of people’s daily satsang with Jesus or Prophet Mohammed?
It is really never too late to be a Christian. One gets top of the class real estate in heritage!
Thanks for your post, Samarpan.
If you are the Samarpan David who was captured by left-wing revolutionaries in Colombia in the eighties and survived, why not offer your story as a string head here?
Arps and Samarpan, both of you are proof enough that Osho is very much alive! Can you imagine thousands like you? Hope to see it before I pop off! XX
Shantam: “Samarpan, is your daily satsang with Osho different than billions of people’s daily satsang with Jesus or Prophet Mohammed?”
I would like to do the experiment, Shantam. Where does one find videos of Jesus or Mohammed giving discourses to their disciples? Of the three, I think video satsang is only possible with Osho.
I don’t know how it is for Christians and Muslims. When I close my eyes and lose myself in the silence between Osho’s words, the experience is exactly as in Buddha Hall.
This is quite a ´royal´ string, friends, isn´t it? And pretty English too.
For me, the main issue is if you cross the point of ´NO RETURN´. Or not. And if you cross this line, never being able (even if you would like to), to return into the fixed system of ´life´ and rather predictable psycho-social patterns, you (your body-mind-soul) may have been born into. I call that Sannyas, although it has no name. And no frame.
Quite recently, better words have been found about a point of ´bowing down´ – essentially, bowing down in a way from where ´you never have to get up again´.
The latter, a metaphor though, may be easy to misunderstand, especially by people who like to describe the ´world´ in ´top (dogs) vs. under(dogs)…and see the bowing down according to the latter mind-frame of understanding.
The fear exists in the mind to cross a line and apparently go on a ´loser’s´ track path; that´s how it looks from the outside so often.
And also the inner fear to be sucked by a void and face an abyss has to be faced.
And there is indeed no guarantee not to get lost completely; I mean here’s the risk, to get lost in a way neither good for yourself nor for others.
Hence this large ´Resistance Army´ with its tendencies to fight the unknown and especially unknowable, unpredictable and uncontrollable in beings, who are then declared as ´rebellious spirits´. Sometimes.
The most close, I feel, to your expression and sharing on this thread issue, Arpana.
Vimalkirti was a Noble Human, and his actual life turned out so different as possibly forecasted, from where he came. He left a trace by our all love-story-telling…as also Turiya´s, his former wife´s ones.
And her life also does leave traces, alive and unpredictable. Only the latter I came to know more personally, and she is ´noble´ too. Vimalkirti and her have a daughter, don’t they?
And what I can glimpse about Vimalkirti goes via my listening to story tellings – also those Turiya shared with us.
What is true Nobility (if I stay close to the thread´s issue)? It may be the committment to essential qualities on a Soul level and leave the space of bargaining (compromising or fighting corruption issues).
And don´t misunderstand me; growing older, discovering the path of NOT-knowing, I wouldn´t say at all that Prince Charles, also mentioned here, doesn´t live this kind a walking the path, in his unique ways.
Reading yours, Samarpan, I also could well relate to it, but stumbled on your ´predating´ issue in your first sentence: “Sannyas pre-dates Osho by several millennia.” Felt uncomfortable by the flavor of a hidden grandeur in the words.
Then, this always triggers my personal issue, that it would be quite nice and also fruitful to be able to meet contributors face-to-face and in the bodies. For a better understanding. And for that is what a living Sangha is all about.
Munich, yesterday, a premium spring day, was overcrowded with inhabitants, visitors and tourists.
One of the many possible events to humanly share was to join the visitors in the Botanical Garden to see the Living Butterflies, natives from all over the planet. I didn´t make it for an entry (too crowded), have still one week left.
So I sat in silence with a tree, whose seed is ´natif-home´ in the Himalayan area (Sikkim, Bhutan, Nepal and China); it´s called Malus Sikkinmensis (Sikkim apple). Some dry tiny apples still left over from last autumn.
For a further reading of traces of a Sangha happening I went underground, to be in awe at what sprayer artists left as story-tellings on the beton walls.
Milky blue spring sky today. Ever-changing.
Empty and yet full.
May you all have a beautiful day. Wherever you are.
Madhu
“For me, the main issue is if you cross the point of ´NO RETURN´. Or not. And if you cross this line, never being able (even if you would like to), to return into the fixed system of ´life´ and rather predictable psycho-social patterns, you (your body-mind-soul) may have been born into. I call that Sannyas, although it has no name. And no frame.”
Interesting comment. Madhu.
I reached that point long before I understood that had happened, and suspect, in hindsight, I panicked. Took a while to come to terms with the shift, and even more time to get it.
Good post, Madhu
Credit goes not to disciples but audio videos to keep Osho’s flame alive.
May audio videos become i-phone and I watch in their next life!
Parmartha,
Have you ever heard or read a single statement of Charles regarding Osho? Is it because he is afraid to disobey his mother?
I go through more than 30, 40 news sites for many years, to be true I have not seen a single endorsement of Osho by any of the ‘who is who’ of the society, Indian or westerner.
Before someone contradicts me, let me say myself, Lady Gaga has mentioned Osho because one quotation about creativity is fitting with her idea.
Even she canot afford to go to Pune. Must be too expensive for her.
Shantam needs to wake up and realise that the hell-hounds of the media spend their lives waiting to pounce upon any such comment by a ‘celebrity’ in order to extract as much blood and guts from their victim as possible.
For any public figure with half a grain of common sense (ie not including the wretched Lady Gaga) expressing interest in Osho has been a ‘no go’ area for decades.
And anyway, so what? Who gives a damn about ‘celebrities’ and the media circus around them? Idiots like Shantam, who spend their lives pointlessly trawling the internet for “news sites”? Enough said!
Shantam, your usual sort of tired sofa consciousness is clearly unaware of this list:
http://www.otoons.com/osho/intellectual_impressions.htm#sthash.7zSRWqOR.dpbs
A quite impressive list, although only one or two ‘major players’. It would be interesting to know exactly when the comments were made, ie before or after Rajneeshpuram, and before or after Osho’s death, in order to gauge how much of a ‘risk’ any particular individual took.
Also, of course, saying a few positive words is one thing, but actually putting yourself ‘on the line’, as it were, eg as a ‘fully paid-up’, committed disciple – especially in the western world – is very much another.
!! We were sent this!
SN, thank you for the offer. I am rather enjoying my anonymity.
Mr. Surrendered, do you think website dedicated to Osho is a kind of literature erotica, where to enjoy anonymity is understandable?
I really doubt on the mental and emotional equilibrium of such shrewd, clever and pandit people.
Spooking the wisdom and yet feeling embarrassed to write with true identity.
Baba, say someting about my master. With your two words my morale will be boosted, baba.
Those who say something let they be happy.
Those who don’t, let they be happy too.
Om Shanti Om Jehovah Om Osho….
Thanks, Arps, got it!
It was one Hindu guru whose invitation “British Prince” Charles and his wife accepted and went to Haridwar/Rishikesh.
The followers of this guru may not tom tom Charles’s photo, but some Osho disciple can do. (MOD: tom tom – WHAT DO YOU MEAN, SHANTAM?)
This cheating reminds me of the happiness on the faces of beggars who get leftover food after some marriage party. These people are always more cheerful than the guests.
Here is one original photo in response to cheat sheet.
Charlie speaking to a few planks in India.
You have not only bad eyesight and should go to an oculist, Shantam Prem, you are also lacking vast amount of instinct, pretending sometimes you are very witty and cunning.
Discovering yesterday the very tasteless and badly made digital compilation as a Sannyas News ´contribution´ or whatsoever other address under the name of Sannyas News, my heart and my mind too went quite other ways, I will not describe just now.
SAD.
Arpana, please come out of your closet.
Enough for tonight.
I feel sick.
Madhu
P.S:
The moderators are on vacation, otherwise, all in all, not even a UK Rupert Murdoch gang of his criminal press firm scouts would have managed such a gross shit happening like here. And then even declaring some mystical ´isis news-press´ would be happening.
We know that the latter have very good advocates to bend any right and to distort it. But do you have?
So, as nobly as the thread got started, it went down the drain.
Unasked, I rate ´human-ness` in here and say it´s far below ZERO sometimes. Like this afternoon and day.
P.P.S:
My response ### as a woman to this may be inspiring Frank as he loves to chill in topping despair of a woman…or maybe also Prem Martyn, who has also a very special taste. And, and, and….
MOD: POST CONSIDERABLY EDITED.
(For Vartan)
Vimalkirti’s grandmother was Princess Alice of Battenberg, an absolutely amazing, exceptional and spiritual woman who dedicated her life to helping those in need (started her own cult too!)
Here is a video about her:
‘The Queen’s Mother-in-Law’ (video)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1d7tcx_ch4-the-queens-mother-in-law-pdtv-x264-aac-mvgroup-org_school
Vimalkirti’s mother’s name was Sophie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Sophie_of_Greece_and_Denmark
Vimalkirti’s father was Prince George William of Hanover, and Sophie’s second husband. Her first husband was Prince Christoph of Hesse, a nazi who died in WWII.