If someone asks me if I am a sannyasin I always answer in the affirmative:
from Lokesh
During the past year on SN, accusatory fingers have been pointed at me indicating that I am an ex-sannyasin. Usually this has been directed at me in undertones that were distinctly negative, like being an ex-sannyasin is something to be ashamed of, that one has missed an essential point concerning one’s connection with Osho.
I have never viewed my sannyasin experience as something that held the potential to move into an ‘ex’ phase, yet others obviously do. There must be some line being drawn that I am missing, because others obviously perceive it and create some kind of gold standard by it. Of course, we all know that people do ‘drop’ sannyas. In my case I never picked it up in the first place. Sannyas represents to me a mysterious life gift, given by a dearly beloved and extremely mischievous friend. Now might be a good time to discuss the matter. I will give a concise summary of how I see or don’t see it and perhaps some of you might care to comment.
When I took sannyas, back in March 74, I saw myself as being distinctly anti-guru. I did not know any better. I had come to the end of a phase in my life that left me in need of spiritual guidance. In short, I was in a mess, dazed and confused. Osho gave me excellent advice and somehow watched over me as I underwent a metamorphosis that involved a period that could only be described as a spiritual death and rebirth.
During the seven years I spent in Poona I never saw myself as a student. I felt like a disciple most of the time and went through a brief period where I saw myself as a devotee. The latter had its roots in traditional Hinduism and here lies an important point. Although Osho was not a traditional Hindu guru he did allow, if not encourage, Indian sannyasins to treat him as such. It does have an appeal, more so if one is brought up in a culture venerating such traditions. Many westerners who met Osho had no doubt read such books as Yogananda’s Autobiography of a Yogi and were influenced by them. Therein the idea that surrender to a guru can continue for a lifetime and even beyond is promoted. I don’t see anything wrong in that, but I also can’t relate to it at this juncture in my life and somehow it is for me far away from the essential Osho, whose great love was Zen, which does not have anything to do with the Hindu dream.
As I see it, awakenings in life, be they spiritual, social, or otherwise, come as the result of a shock. During the eighties I went through two massive shocks. I will focus on the first one. In 1981 I became very ill. Intensive care on the critical list for four months. Two years to return to good health. It was seventh hell. There is something about extreme illness that can bring one in touch with the nuts and bolts of human reality. It is an experience that returns humility into one’s life, the realization of how fragile one is, and a place one is presented with an opportunity to build a new life. In seventh hell you need to come up with the right stuff or the furies will tear you apart. I looked to my sannysin programming, Osho, and it was just not enough to overcome the extreme difficulties I was forced to encounter, learning to walk again etc. The sannyasin commune life, in retrospect by then, appeared like I had been surfing a wave of bliss, but if you fell into the churning depths you were on your own. By the time I got my life back the Ranch fiasco was entering its death throes and I wanted no part of it. Firearms are horrible weapons and their proliferation on the Ranch was a sure sign that the rot was setting in. Osho slagged Gandhi off but he could have learned a few tricks from Gandhi’s peaceful revolution.
Certain anomalies began to enter the public domain concerning Osho’s behind the scenes life. A good example would be an Osho quote I read recently and the distance between what he said and what he did. Osho talked about how money and respectability are booby prizes in life, not real prizes, which I agree with to an extent. On the other hand we have Osho throwing a tantrum because Sheela told him the commune could not afford to buy him a $2,000,000 diamond-encrusted watch he craved and quite a few other instances betraying the fact that Osho was not as beyond it all as he claimed to be in public. Slowly I had to accept that something was wrong, including my perception. There was simply too much evidence to support the fact that Osho talked the talk but did not always walk the walk. In spite of this, I still today cherish my time with Osho and am still grateful for the help he gave me when I so much needed it. In saying that I feel compelled to be honest and admit that there was a period that I felt somehow let down by my sannyas expectations, disillusioned. Like all else in life the bitterness passed and was assimilated into my life story. Bottom line is the sooner one begins to take responsibility for what happens to you in life the better. Blaming others gives away your power to those you blame and leaves you weak and stuck in the quagmire of life events.
Over the years I found Osho books and videos to hold less and less appeal. Today I very rarely look into them, I heard all those words live from the horses mouth, having attended approximately 1500 discourses. That is, including Hindi ones, where you might hear one English word that remained with you for the rest of the day. Socially I have many sannyasin friends and even today I find that there is an unsaid understanding to share that, for the most part, I don’t have with my non-sannyasin friends, although there will always be exceptions.
Meeting H W L Poonja in Lucknow was a real eye opener for me. When it all boiled down he was representative of the same power, love, awareness, compassion etc. as Osho was. Comparisons are unnecessary, but pursuing logic there is no harm done in drawing them. The main difference for me between the two men was that Poonjaji was not interested in adulation and trying to change the world. (So much so that when I eventually left Lucknow I did so fully understanding that everything in life was the way it was for a reason and that life’s mechanism is perfection itself.) Perhaps, more importantly Poonjaji made it very clear that what you experienced around him was your business and nobody else’s, including him. Osho, at least how I experienced him, was different on that level. He smiled on as one indulged in all kinds of spiritual fantasies, knowing full well they were completely illusionary. Poonjaji would pull you up immediately for such indulgence. To this day I have no idea if either Osho or Poonjaji were enlightened. The word no longer carries much meaning for me. When it come to gurus take the best and forget the rest, and in my experience there has always been a rest as far as wise guys go.
Today, when I look at the sannyasin scene from a distance, it looks like a shadow of its former self. Most of the old-timers who are still hanging in there do so for quite worldly reasons. I don’t believe Osho would have been too happy to see the way it has all went. On the other hand I feel he would have given an ironic smile to see how important his physical presence was to the whole movement. The vibe he created around him while alive was unique, powerful and irreplaceable. Little wonder than that sannyas has slowly drifted into the realm of wacky cults built around a dead guru. The flame, as far as externals go, is almost out. For those of us who spent quality time with Osho the flame burns on, yes he was that amazing and influential.
If someone asks me if I am a sannyasin I always answer in the affirmative and suspect I always will. I am that grateful that I was part of the whole mad game when it was alive. I would never attend a White Robe Brotherhood or any other such cultist mumbo-jumbo, because it just does not work for me. Occasionally I meet people who are relatively fresh to sannyas, never actually having met Osho, and in general I find them as lost as anyone else is in this world. One of the dangers of listening to too much of Osho’s words is that one can take his wisdom to be one’s own and it isn’t. He had an answer for everything and if you really live you will find that there comes a day when you need to come up with your very own authentic answers. Even deeper, one’s greatest battles and struggles will have to be fought alone in life, you have to help yourself, which is part of why they are your greatest struggles. A guru or wise man can point the way, but it is you alone who must walk it.
Now then, would you describe me as a sannyasin, an ex-sannyasin, or something else, some kind of spiritual mutant perhaps? It is interesting to note that all the ones who have described me as an ex-sannyasin never actually spent much one on one time with Osho. So just for them I will say you will never know what it is that you missed and it is always good to bear in mind that Bob Marley put it best when he said, ‘Every time you point a finger three fingers point back at you’. Amen
What is the difference between boyfriend and ex-boyfriend? Ex-wife and present wife, and so on?
Emotionally, one does not need to declare at facebook about the relationship status, the moment person starts dating the new one, old equation comes to an end, new chapter begins.
In the world where we live today, freedom of choice is an essential ingredient, one does not need to feel guilty or remorseful about changing the course of his/her emotional or spiritual course.
During my student days, when I was reading Osho in our fields, the effect still lingers on my being. I was very impressed about His vision of Sannyas. One is free to take it and leave it. He was very particular to stress that old religions have only entrance and no exit doors.
Anyway, when sannyas movement is in the last phase in the West, it does not matter any more whether someone is sannyasin or ex-sannyasin.
Anyway, we are all mature enough to look at our friends and colleagues irrespective of their beliefs, as long as company is interesting, exciting and alive.
In my personal opinion, Lokesh or Parmartha both are sannyasins though I think Parmartha has not gone to some other master, though as a matter of propriety and protocol; hypothetically, if there is a job vacancy in Osho´s Pune, latter should get a priority.
Shantam, the idea that there is some other master to go to is a misconception. There is only one master and he resides within your heart. Any external master who tells you otherwise is simply a deceiver.
People like Osho and Papaji manifest because we don’t believe that. So mired are we in the world of appearances we need a manifestation of that which is within, without. We simply don’t want to believe it. Then you meet a wise man or woman and they look into your eyes and say, “Wakey wakey, sleepy head, it’s true.”
It really is that simple. Our minds are complex and unwilling to accept the simple truth. Instead, we implement a complex world view where we have to run around doing a million and one things and never arrive at the truth.
I believe Lokesh when he says, real master is in your heart. After spending 7 intense years in Pune, this reality can dawn to many people.
For me, Osho is worth for gratitude for this very reason that he gave the ground to many people to come indefinitely and refine their own life story till the point they could let go the bridge with their chosen time.
Who else has given such possibility to wide variety of people?
Books, personal charisma and seducing voice is secondary.
Have just noticed this post, SP, and I feel I must congratulate you on its wisdom, particularly the bit that goes, “he (Osho) gave the ground to many people to come… and refine their own life story.”
These words reflect my own experience, and like you, I feel gratitude towards Osho as the person who created the space where, despite all the negatives of Pune, MisManagement etc., a significant and positive personal transformation took place in my own life.
Thanks, SP & thanks, Osho!
I have no idea about the puzzling concept of before and after…or a within and without, as a concept. I do wonder quite a bit though in a partial state of befuddlement (in contrast to that heightened, wisened state of not being able to name it)…
Which is where Osho the man leaves his indelible imprint: just at the point of the attempting return to mind and matter, he stands happily at the gate…One would wish all our loved ones would taste that joy in this life…sincerely trust that they do and can.
As it is, my entrance to that place was not through Zen-effect mountaineering moments or endeavour and achievement, but in being witness to something that in art is called the sublime, through the partaking of Receiving…
Understanding how that happens-chance to occur is beyond me, but the sacred is a great resting, fresh spring of life-water inside…It/she endures,forgives, bestows, reveals, loves and plays…
Osho’s great contribution (among the myriad) was the oceanic giggles…waves of them…down to base and back up in dissolving love…
It’s said that when someone thanked Rumi for his poetic journeying and sharing, he replied, “Thank you for receiving it.”
Gratefulness just gets passed on and on.
“…if you really live you will find that there comes a day when you need to come up with your very own authentic answers. Even deeper, one’s greatest battles and struggles will have to be fought alone in life, you have to help yourself, which is part of why they are your greatest struggles. A guru or wise man can point the way, but it is you alone who must walk it.”
You were doing a good job of maintaining ambiguity regarding your status…but you gave yourself away (that’s a good thing!).
Osho’s ten commandments start with saying you should trust your own experience. You have.
Osho spoke on “the flight of the Alone to the Alone”, and the difference between pointing and walking. You got it.
It is interesting that you also answer in the affirmative when asked if you are a sannyasin. I certainly agree, based on what you write. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Cool, Kabir.
Lokesh is a good student, that’s all.
Avinashi, thanks for sharing. Perhaps you would be so kind as to go one step further and explain to the readers the source of your penetrating insights.
As per my understanding, your judgment about Osho shows that you never crossed the level of being a student; disciple and devotee are just empty words for you.
Avinashi, I had an interesting conversation the other day with a friend. He was telling me about some shamanastic teaching, part of which was something that ran along the following lines:
People’s opinions and judgments mean nothing, except to show the set of mental constructs that they are lumped with.
I can dig it, babe.
Martyn declares, ‘I have no idea about the puzzling concept of before and after..or a within and without.’
I don’t think that within and without is a concept, puzzling or otherwise, but rather a fact of life. We inhabit both an inner and outer world. You have the external world of events and you have an inner world of thoughts, emotions and feelings. I would go so far as to say that even an ignorant person lives just so.
We can go to a great party, but if we don’t feel great it will just be a mess, which means to me that taking care of one’s inner world and learning about its highways and byways is more important than making it in the world. Hence, what could profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul, as many do?
Just like the external world that we wander around in, surely it’s true to say we also have an invisible (to others) spiritual world that we move around in. Just like a city, there are areas in our world that it is best not to visit for they are negative by nature, slums, dark alleys inhabited by malevolent spirits etc. We can also endeavour to clean up the dirty, dark places in ourselves.
A spiritual teacher’s job is partly to do with that, but more importantly to bring one in touch with that which is not of this world, something that will not be affected by the process of disintegration brought about with death.
One thing that both Osho and Poonjaji brought up for me was that I knew when I looked into their eyes they knew intuitively everything there was to know about me as a person, not least of which was the fact that my personality was a shaky fabrication mainly constructed through the circumstances of my worldly existence, impermanance incarnate. These men inspired me to find that which is eternal in myself. The spirit that shines bright high above the comings and goings of this world.
Martyn, you are a bright guy. I don’t believe you are unaware that you inhabit both an inner and outer world, and I very much doubt that you are puzzled by it.
Lokesh, what the condition of separation is, is what I used some incomplete language constructs above, to hint at.
What I’m inferring is that through having, in my case, met Osho, then his clear and definitive evidence as a person living both in this and that world gave me the taste. The incontrovertible, unambiguous taste. Of which other conceptual forms we discuss here as representations.
That there exist other evidences for revelation is out of concept, but I cannot refer to them as efficiently and evidentially as what was the tsunami of Osho. Although these other places exist in us and through us as indicators of the same rays.
How that then sublimates us is a koan-puzzle and by His example one trusts that it does. On the way, we play and make poetry out of the nests of meaning. A la Rumi…or Osho.
Enjoyed this one, Lokesh, thx.
Thanks for your story, Lokesh, it shows when you’re down to the nitty-gritty painful side of Life, we are alone, tools or masters to deal with it don’t help any longer. I’m sure Osho knew that, no doubt he went through it himself and he possibly mentioned it, but more in the way of “celebrate everything”, presumably meaning everything between very high and very low.
Well, the high bit is easy…I think he said it like that, to not scare us off about what we might encounter on our seeker’s trip to enlightenment!
I suddenly remember now that at he beginning of the series of lectures ‘Take It Easy’, he said he called it so because “it ain’t easy”! So he did warn us….
SN is zooming on fast track, many, many new threads, relevance of therapy to sannyasins/ex-sannyasins and so on, so forth.
My small contribution…
The journey doesn’t start until one starts to realise that he is identified with the wrong I/self and start looking for the real identity. All the mind, misery, sadness, fear, birth, death, the God, the enlightenment, everything is born out of that wrong identity. Once you go into the root of the wrong identity that you think you are, everything falls apart. One matchstick is enough to bring a huge heap of dry grass to ashes.
There is no other spiritual message than this. Maybe the temples and churches started using bells for this reason, to remind this one point: “REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE”.
To me this is the only seeking. This very moment you are free once you stop identifying with the wrong identity. All the meditations, therapies, prepare the ground, they are great, but they are not the end.
Once you are liberated from the mind – misery, sadness, fear, birth, death, the God, the enlightenment – all that remains is a pure love. A tremendous flow of love will gust out from everywhere. You are no more after anything and there is nothing to lose. All is yours.
Enough for today….
“Once you are liberated from the mind”…As a matter of interest, Swami Anand Newman, do you consider you are “liberated from the mind”, not just once in a while, but 24/7?!
Surely not, Parmartha. I still do not know what it is like. But remembering and trying to go to roots as many times as possible relieves me a lot nowadays. That much I shared from myself. But the words are not mine.
As you and many friends probably know, the message I posted above is what Ramana Maharshi was teaching throughout his life. I would see Osho = Ramana + Therapies + Meditations. In that sense, Osho is richer in many respects.
The British baboon should be aware of his cynical questioning, which is coming from nowhere other than the mind!
Newman speaks perfectly correctly:
“liberated from the mind, a tremendous flow of love will gust out from everywhere”.
He is living proof of this assertion as he gusts forth from the Beyond and the Behind!
But the ex-sannyasin baboons will be too busy using their minds to justify their failure at the feet of the master to listen!
They think that being with a master is like being with some cheap, chavvy girlfriend – when you are bored with her, you jump on another one!
A master is for life, not just for Christmas!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
Anand Yogi,
You keep coming back like a Bumble Bee calling people Baboons!! (:- shh, shhhh….
Yogi, are you Avinashi’s guru?
Back in the day, when Sannyas was a 24/7 lifestyle – ashrams, communes, shared houses, work, sleep, eat together etc., the difference between sannyasin and ex became obvious when someone opted out.
(Maybe that still holds good in Nepal and other places).
It was a big deal in its day.
What were ex-sannyasins called at one point?
Wasn’t it “the late” swami so and so?
Woooo, that really was cult-stuff, straight out of an American B-movie.
Now that the vast majority of people who took sannyas in the orange and red days are dispersed in what sannyasspeak termed “the world”, the distinction just isn`t relevant.
In fact, if you meet anyone for whom it is relevant, you are probably receiving a cult-member alert from Existence!
Looks like Osho was speaking before the microphone for the ‘whole humanity’, but through its orange/ maroon lifestyle, He was entertaining the people who got initiated.
Maybe He was born to repay a kind of debt to the people who were present. It was nothing of existential value, it has no continuity for the future.
The first generation sannyasins are proving themselves as those spoiled Sheikhs who come to London with their multi-million cars, without any idea how technology was developed and for whom. Buying the car and keeping the production line active are two different things.
(Piece is dedicated to someone like Frank).
Yes, Shantambhai!
Those spoiled sheikhs who come from the East to the West and enjoy the benefits of the West whilst remaining utterly ignorant fools deserve our derision!
We can laugh heartily at their stupidity, bhai!
But remember, we are sannyasins, not ex-sannyasins, thus we are true representatives of mighty Bharat and as such we must feel compassion for them, for like the baboons, they are the filth and mud from which our lotus of higher consciousness grows!
But be careful, Bhai!
Why are you dedicating your posts, which shine out like a beacon of intelligence, clarity and enlightenment through the dark night of the ego of ignorance and confusion, to a depraved baboon like Frank, who takes pride in urinating on the holiest of shrines?
And Lokesh, I am not Avinashi`s guru, but if he wishes to become my disciple it is an entirely different matter!
Certainly, there is a certain connection between us that is beyond the mind, that even a mere paltry student like yourself could not have failed to notice!
He has clearly embraced devoteehood with a commitment that is rarely found and come close to the heights of which Osho has spoken.
However, for him, there is one last step…
If he surrenders to me, or to be more exact, to Swami Bhorat, then a transformation that he will not have dreamed of is possible.
That is my promise!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
Some years ago I linked this out here on SN for downloading. It includes my darshan on Aug 17, 1980.
Happy viewing (while I declare it’s not for sale and not knowingly lent out to infringe any copyright).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&srcid=0B3ysARk8MvMIOGQ5MGM4ZmQtZTIyYi00MWRlLTlkYzktM2U3NjUxNGM4ZmI1&authkey=CNHjv4wH
When yesterday evening – late – I discovered your sharing, Lokesh, I had a first read and then felt,
‘Oh, I have to read that again, that needs space’, and that called ‘me’ be out of the way.
So today, after seeing the doctor, the rivering of what you contributed to start was already in full gears.
When I say ‘thank you’, I felt ‘home’, still a bit scared to land in your ‘mumbo-mambo’ closet – but what to do?
Sitting by the river of a so-called thread is one thing, surfing the river another, taking care of the rockets in the river as well, from others who just throw stones and enjoy that, another another.
But the truth is, I felt ‘home’ when reading your contribution and that of some others too, and around lunch-break time there was this moment of joy and my heartbeat resonating in it.
And what a surprise was that – not to get hold of, just like a breeze – and even after having read Frank´s contribution of late afternoon or seeing Avinashi throw stones (little sharp ones), saying to myself,
“Aha – that’s it, let’s carefully surf – and take care.”
And thank you, Parmartha, for posting such a lovely picture in the midst of all that!
‘Mumbo-jumbo surfing’…
Madhu says thank you to all of you tonight, friends.
Sweet.
From ABC to XYZ, all have merged into one:
Osho was sitting on the chair, I also sit on the chair.
Osho was speaking, me too speaking.
Osho telling stories, I also tell his stories.
Osho leading the meditation camps, I even lead meditation groups all over the world.
Osho is my master, I am like my master.
Osho has left the body, I am still in the body..
My name is Swami Deep Gratitude.
Donations needed for new ashram!
When we have an original paradigm of incarnate buddhahood, for example, who becomes through their own or our own interpretive narrative, a tainted paradigm, then to what relative and renewed version of truth, love and simplicity or paradigm do we refer?
What shape does one’s heart take so as to remain not virtuous, nor partial, yet still attuned to the point of redeeming both suffering and any worldly disillusion (real or interpreted). And keeping alive to the intent of the master-y and not becoming embroiled in a linear, narrative definition instead? What holds us that is not of our doing and is steadfast?
By remaining present to our own scruples of our notional self, we are then in the service of not only our own regard, but part of each life that we equally touch wholeheartedly. And any understanding is certainly enriched and free to be included or adandoned in context.
Paradox is redemptive and occurs in the eschatology or final judgment and destiny of insight. This is truth containing its opposite, the “above all don’t wobble” duality giving rise to awareness, the helix, the trinity of the knower, the knowing, the known, dissolved into presence.
Osho was not his narrative and it is to that that he and we surrendered. And not out of piety or aggrandizement. But to the life stripped of distraction, yet with eyes filled with this essence.
Here is the San Damiano cross, upon which St Francis contemplated until his self-entry and dispersion. Notice the eyes…and the unambiguous similarity to those eyes in the sannyas mala locket perchance. It was common for Byzantine crosses to show Christ untouched by death.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/files/2010/04/damianocloseup2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2010/04/15/well-they-did-say-jesus-was-hung-on-a-cross/&h=550&w=364&tbnid=SBbPiIjLhp-IyM:&zoom=1&q=san+damiano+cross&docid=sM86IfV-TSQztM&hl=en&ei=Wpn9U9vvHJLqaNytgvAD&tbm=isch&ved=0CCMQMygGMAY
My God, Martyn, is this an attempt to get into ‘Private Eye’s ‘Pseuds’ Corner’, or what?!
You might well have a few interesting points here, if they were accessible – but could you possibly simplify the language, ‘deconvolute’ it, as it were, to make it less of a brain-twister?
SD, I was just typing out loud…
‘Blessed Are The Cheese Makers’ was the original title…
Anyway, tonight I’ve just been to a Ceilidh, big and zany event, great sweaty fun. If my prose reminds you of a Chinese/ English translated manual – just wait until you see my footwork on the boards…mesmeric and slightly idiosyncratic…toe bruising…
Ttfn…och the noo….
And as you asked for simplicity…here’s some words and images set to music…
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqVBGv2hpQ4
Ok, Mr Crazyman (that’s a compliment in these circles, of course!).
SANNYASIN/EX-SANNYASIN – WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?
Do other cult members have also particular word to describe their presence?
What is the difference between Mahesh Yogi´s followers, Hare Rama Hare Krishna followers and SANNYASINs/EX-SANNYASINs?
One difference just came in my mind: We object to the word ‘followers’.
Sannyasins/ex-Sannyasins are not followers. They are friends with their dad!
It’s a curious thing that when Osho spoke to what was the biggest single audience in his whole life bar none – that is, on ‘Nightline’, American prime-time national TV, in 1985, after his arrest, he objected to Ted Koppel, the interviewer, who refered to “your followers” and said, “I do not have any followers, only friends.”
If old age has not dented the memory of Frank, he can remember too what Osho said in Zen discourses when people started treating him like a ‘friend’?
Selective memory and ‘I can have my cake and eat it too’ attitude has eradicated most of the goodwill around that ‘not any more neo-Sannyas’ in the developed countries.
This is one of the reasons trade has shifted towards ex-Soviet bloc countries.
“(that’s a compliment in these circles, of course!)”
Would you please mind to clarify that – your remark – for me, Satyadeva?
Madhu
Well, Madhu, this is a very serious matter, you appear to have forgotten – or wilfully overlooked – one of Osho’s key statements from way back in the day, which went something like:
“I am the guru for the ‘crazies’! All the crazy people of the world are coming to me!”
And you – are you not “still crazy after all of these years”?!! (If not, why not?!).
Lokesh says:
“One of the dangers of listening to too much of Osho’s words is that one can take his wisdom to be one’s own and it isn’t. He had an answer for everything and if you really live you will find that there comes a day when you need to come up with your very own authentic answers.”
From your statement one assumes that Osho’s words were his own. In fact, if you had listened enough you would have realised that Osho spoke about everybody else, but never about himself.
The journey was not to come up with your own answers (which you clearly have done) but to stop questioning.
“On the other hand we have Osho throwing a tantrum because Sheela told him the commune could not afford to buy him a $2,000,000 diamond-encrusted watch he craved and quite a few other instances betraying the fact that Osho was not as beyond it all as he claimed to be in public.”
There was a game going on between Osho and Sheela that we were not privy to. He was stressing Sheela to breaking point…without knowing that she was already broken and propping herself up with drugs. Osho was merely ‘rubbishing money’ in the same way that he ‘rubbished all the world’s wisdom’.
After Sheela left, Osho was reduced to wearing fake diamond (quartz) watches which is the equivalent of driving a custom=built Ford instead of a Rolls Royce.
* * *
“Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.” (George S. Patton) [From Osho's favourite movie...I bet Osho did get a surprise!]
‘There was a game going on between Osho and Sheela that we were not privy to. He was stressing Sheela to breaking point…without knowing that she was already broken and propping herself up with drugs.’
Which might have something to do with the fact that he was pretty stoned at the time himself.
“The journey was not to come up with your own answers (which you clearly have done) but to stop questioning.”
Yeah, right, and thus a ton of bullshit gets accepted as something spiritual.
Bodhi, I find your post very questionable.
Neither overlooked nor forgotten, Satyadeva, but understanding such stuff another way than you do.
What was yesterday “crazy” can today be a show rewarded by prices.
What was yesterday “crazy” can have entered the saloons of this world by very decent-looking kind of bankers in suits.
And if you do a research into hisrory of societies, their ethical and moral and ‘sanity’ standards,
you can find numerous examples of mutating ‘standards’ of living and living in interpersonal traffic (communication) together.
I saw it this way, Satyadeva:
As I joined the Sannyas realms of the sangha (like many at that time), after having finished the university as psychologist and in the midst of a ‘gestalt training’ (FPI) and after having worked in social political science projects here, which left me unfulfilled and looking for something like it was called ‘Psychology of the Buddhas’ -
a more HUMAN way to deal with pain of ‘fitting-or-not-fitting’.
Until today, this very moment: what Osho has to contribute to get some screws loose and to go beyond a political way to look at issues of human mind and psyche and SOUL is very relevant. For me.
Have a nice day in terms of ‘crazy-not-crazy-beyond-craziness’, Satyadeva -
Madhu
Ok then, Madhu, in the spirit of the utmost scrupulous rigour, perhaps more accurate might have been “that’s a compliment in certain sectors of these circles”.
Although fyi, my original remark (and the last one) was just, er…a bit of, er…’fun’, ie not meant to be taken too seriously.
PS: Saturn exits Scorpio in a few months, so perhaps things might ‘lighten up’ a bit soon….
“PS: Saturn exits Scorpio in a few months, so perhaps things might ‘lighten up’ a bit soon….”
Very interesting, Satyadeva!
Does it mean 2 years ago things were easy, in 6 months again there will be fireworks?
Nothing for you to get excited about, Shantam, it was a purely personal comment to Madhu.
This sentence of yours, Satyadeva, I am going to quote quite often.
Your karma will come back….
As they casually say (with exquisite irony) in “certain sectors of certain circles” here in London, “Oh, really? I’m bothered”.
Nice one, Lokesh! I like it. As always, you are prepared to tell the unpalatable truth about Osho when many others prefer to bury their heads in the sand and pretend he was infallible or some other ‘Holy Shoite’.
Overall, it seems that you take the Osho experience to be a positive one despite some of the nonsense that went on. Obviously, the ‘Old Boy’ wasn’t perfect, but then who is? He still had a lot of positives in his favour and therefore. like you. I am happy to communicate to others that I am a sannyasin.
The name ‘White Robe Brotherhood’ has always seemed strange to me also. It conjures up the image of Ku Klux Klan or something similarly ugly. I have attended the ‘White Robe Evening’ on occasion, principally because I was obliged to do so when I did the 90-day Workers Meditation Programme (custodial sentence by another name). However, I would not recommend it.
Cheers, Bro’.
Ashok
Ashok,
There are more than 2.5 million people with this name.
Mr. Andi, under the veil of anonymity you can write, “The name ‘White Robe Brotherhood’ has always seemed strange to me also. It conjures up the image of Ku Klux Klan or something similarly ugly.”
In my opinion, one of the biggest imperfections of your “Old boy” was his ignorance of real western mind.
Needy disciples with broken self-esteem finally showed him after a bit of recovery what salt they are made of.
They raised market value of Sannyas rise like blue chip company and then dumped it after profit booking.
People born in India are too simple to understand complex mathematics of Analytical Heart!
Chudo, aren’t you supposed to be attending a Cuckoo-Clux-Clan meeting today…planning to burn a wooden Om outside the Resort?
Wow SP, after more than 2 yrs of dropping the occasional post on this website, it seems you have deigned to comment on something I have said! Does this mean that you think I have finally said something of note or is it a case of mistaken identity?
I am certainly not the Mr Andi (Andy Capp?), you think I might be. I am the Ashok who was recently described by Prem Martyn, in his infinite wisdom, as the Irish slime who likes to mock poor SN contributors ( partly true PM, but remember, I reserve that facility for only those who truly need to be honored in a special way).
As regards the general content of your offering, I think you might have something significant to say, however I cannot fully understand the cryptic nature of your poetry. Could you try to say things in a simpler way?
Cheers Bro’,
Best wishes,
Ashok
Coolio, Ashok.
Welcome to the Sannyas diaspora, Lokesh. There are many of us out here.
Hello, Prateeksha! IOU an email (from a few years ago)!
Thank you for responding, Satyadeva.
Madhu
Amazing, Ashok, how everybody takes some pieces to get his or her thing going…
Your contribution inspires me to here confirm that I have been to ‘White Robe Brotherhood Meeting’ every evening for very many years.
Loved it to change clothes and loved it to sink into the Silence together with others (the name of that has not been of such importance).
Same unimportance for me had been Osho’s watches, where they came from, how much they cost, or clothes and other stuff discussed her widely.
I waited for the Silence in between the words and that has been a peak ‘nutrition’.
Silence is so different, moment to moment…
Sometimes the so-named is noisy, sometimes you fall into the Void where anything is coming from and going to and that for me is ‘holy’, meaning nothing else than ‘whole’.
The way to celebrate that possible experience also in an outer form of Respect is still something very beautiful, if you celebrate it with others, like a feast.
What I related to in Lokesh´s contribution here is the HEARTbeat IN it, and the authenticity in sharing his very unique way, his Love story, going the bumpy ways from here to here.
Such way of Sharing always function like a magnet, that’s at least what I found out and is creating respect, without even asking for it or even demanding.
An ordinary-extraordinary miracle.
Madhu
I must receive some adulatory feedback or I might never write here again…
Looks like they haven’t got their speakers switched on…ahem…I said…
Look, here is some spiritual poetry I wrote especially…
There was an old fella from Poona
Who was ever such a marvellous crooner
Like Sinatra he’d say, just “Do it Your Way”,
Take your time so you’ll arrive much, much sooner.
This puzzled the assembled folk
Who couldn’t quite get all the joke.
A Scotsman then said
To put rights to bed,
“Freedom’s yours – if you take it, why vote?
The people all sighed in reply
They could see this was pie in the sky
Promised true liberation, spiritual folk of the nation
Rose as one to face Truth or to die.
Some failed to be roused by illusion
Preferred doubt to faith-like confusion
So scurrying along they tossed carefree song
Like Cabers, in chorused unison.
Oh mighty and worthwhile it was
This remembering to forget just because
It just wouldn’t pay to be led far astray
Or it might so you’d become Yerr own boss.
Nae bad, Jimmy.
“I have been to ‘White Robe Brotherhood Meeting’ every evening for very many years.
Loved it to change clothes and loved it to sink into the Silence together with others (the name of that has not been of such importance).”
I can borrow these words of Madhu. I am sure she must have seen me too in this every evening event for years and years.
Sunset time in India is so precious yet so ordinary, and to spend this time in Buddha hall or now Osho Auditorium is one of the most exquisite momentsfor Osho disciples.
Those who have experienced this can never forget.
Re your last paragraph here, SP, would you agree that all Osho disciples would consider the EM an ‘exquisite moment’? If you have been rudely and physically thrown out of the august assembly by the Osho ‘Cough Police’, regardless of whether you have coughed or not, as I have been, then I have to say you are way off the mark. Moreover, if you haven’t been thrown out, the same still applies as far as I am concerned.
SP, you write a load of bollocks. Does SN pay you in some way to act provocatively or are you really serious about what you write? If indeed it is the latter then all I can say is “GET SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP QUICKLY!”
Ashok, you can join Queen´s workforce. If someone is rude, you can sue him in the civil court for liability.
About professional help, many contemporaries of your old man were also of the opinion!
Please accept my profoundest of apologies, SP. The penny has finally dropped in me humble little thought box, and I have realised that your comments were in fact a kind of sarcastic spoof on the sentimental, holy nonsense that Madhu had come out with about White Robe. I feel sure that you don’t really agree with her drivel, do you?
I must admit you had me going there for a minute…you sounded so positive about the White Robe Meeting…I thought to myself, “He’s already on the Resort MisManagement Team and he’s now employed full-time writing up all the sales brochures! He’s living his dream.”
I talk a load of bollocks a lot of the time, I feel compelled to admit. To my credit, I am prepared to recognise this detrimental behaviour, whereas many others around here do not achieve my advanced level of humility, do they?
By the way, what does “Queen’s workforce” mean? You don’t mean some of the old British cronies that hang around this site that regularly use you for target practice, do you?
All the best, Bro’,
Ashok
Shantam, as well as me, can not ‘borrow’ from anybody, neither here, nor elsewhere – neither can you.
I dreamed and still dream of a Mystery School – and not the way a David Lynch performs dreams like nightmares in ‘Twin Peaks’, who is a VIP in TM and TM businesses.
This very night here I had a dream, meeting a Harlequin, who laughed very mischievously,
pointing at me: “The Dancer in the Dark”.
A Mystery School is a living thing, Shantam – not a dead institution. And you cannot vote for ‘president’ there – nobody can. It all surfaces by the dance of human hearts – and ingredients de plus ‘unknowable and yet felt’.
Some culture says Love is a game of Hide and Seek. That seems to be a rough description, but I do not know better how to put it just now.
Maybe a Mystery School is happening in the same natural way, appearing – disappearing – appearing – disappearing…more an evolutionary happening.
(By the way, I went to ‘White Robe Meditation’ in that Spirit).
Madhu
Madhu, I have often dreamed that I am a “harlequin laughing mischievously”. I have also often seen the vision of a ‘harlequin’ whilst in a deep process like ‘Who’s In?’, for example.
Maybe I am the ‘harlequin’ of your dream? One never knows, does one, how the energy moves through the air waves and so on? I think I need to consult my Fairy Tarot cards, don’t you?
And a PS:
Little dream besides…with a little quote:
“LIFE IS A MYSTERY TO BE LIVED, BUT NOT A PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED.”
And remember, as Karima did , a few days ago, the ‘Take it Easy’ lectures (and saying hello to Karima also with her words): maybe sometimes it is not easy at all…
And that´s human and compassionate.
And if the Spirit of Compassion is missing in a gathering it’s like bad soil conditions for something to grow.
“LIFE IS A MYSTERY TO BE LIVED, BUT NOT A PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED.”
It’s all right for some. Try telling that to the folks looking for a glass of water to drink, even if it’s muddy. Try telling that to the 3,000,000 Syrian refugees fleeing their homeland. Or maybe say it to a WHO doctor treating people who have contracted ebola.
It is a good saying, but it is not always appropriate, and if you believe it as your
world-view it’s flakey at best.
Perhaps it depends on how one defines ‘Life’, on how deep we go into the meaning of the word?
If by ‘Life’ we mean just the normal sense of ‘living our lives’, then your points are spot on, Lokesh – not to mention how privileged are those who don’t (yet) have to suffer such appaling privations, ie us, we who have the luxury of speculating on such matters, rather than on our very survival.
But if by ‘Life’ (especially with a capital ‘L’) we mean something like the ‘Essence’ of who we are, that which from a spiritual perspective we are attempting to unite ourselves with, ie equivalent to ‘Spirit’ (or whatever equivalent word one uses) then the “mystery, not a problem” phrase takes on quite another meaning, doesn’t it?
As Life itself, the Being-ness behind everything and every body, ‘just is’ (or so I’m told).
Now, please excuse me, I really must lie down for a while, it’s been SO ‘problematic’ composing this post…Oh dear, I do believe I’ve mislaid my Rescue Remedy….
“…It is a good saying, but it is not always appropriate,..”
True, Lokesh, you hit an open door this way, just for the joy of hitting (obviously).
If I would write addressing a Syrian refugee committee, I would just send a cheque with a money order, or might decide to increase my monthly outgoingss for ‘Medicine sans Frontières’.
When I write to UK SN chat, I try my best to keep with the issue here posted and given.
Some of you just feel a need to hit – now and then -
and maybe because that is quite a male energy here.
Madhu
PS:
And if YOU in Ibiza Finca tell the story of inviting a few refugees into your house – instead of VIPs – then post again like this, addressing me here in Munich.
No refugees in sight, but if I run into such people I will not tell them life is a mystery to be livd and not a problem to be solved, because they will be too preoccupied trying to solve some difficult life problems, or hustling up the money to buy some suntan lotion.
Ok, I think it’s time for me to say something serious instead of taking cheap shots at sitting ducks ( I think this is what Madhu means when she uses the word “hitting”? Forgive me, Madhu, for I have sinned and enjoyed it!).
So, in the attempt to elevate my mind I will focus on something that Lokesh said in his article about an “unsaid understanding to share” amongst his Sannyas friends, that he doesn’t generally experience with non-sannyasin friends.
Would you care to elaborate a little bit on this Lokesh, or is it pretty much as it is written?
Ashok, one thing that Osho drummed into his people’s heads was ‘non-seriousness’. It’s a good one. Sannyasins are usually not so caught up in believing who they think they are. Average people believe they are their thoughts. Weird, but true. To understand that one is not who one thinks themselves to be is a biggie. To sannyasins, it is basic stuff.
Also, the idea that when you become serious about something or other it is usually an indication that your ego has become involved, identified etc. Try telling that to someone normal who has in issue.
One time in Costa Rica I ran into a guy in the sannyasin scene there. He had fallen in love with a sannyasin chick who obviously just saw it as a holiday romance. He, on the other hand, thought he had found his soul mate. He asked my advice. I told him not to take himself so seriously. His hot-headed temperament drove him to throw rocks at me. He was shouting, “This is really serious, how can you say otherwise?”
I reckon you will catch my drift, that sannyasins share a common understanding on such matters, while many normal folks do not.
I could give other examples, but I am off for my morning swim.
As I see it, the non-serious side of mind, although a lot more fun, is still mind. The mind uses it as a defence mechanism when provoked by ‘the other’, saying, “Oh, you are soooo serious, lighten up, after all we are sannyasins, always looking on the bright side of life, taradata, we can be sarcastic and ironic and slinging mud, but it’s all done in the best possible non-serious way, and if you have a problem with that, that’s just your mind, our mind is better, ’cause we are so awfully, ironically funny, innit?”
But ok, ok, this is the play, also on this virtual meeting-place called SN, but how I see it, from sannyasins contributing here, including myself, the simple fact that the mind wants to read and react here means that there is an attachment, identification of a particular part of the mind, serious or not serious.
If we could all confess our particular identification with this site it would create more awareness, now it is just a mind-game, mind reacting to mind, the part of my mind that writes here is: “Look how much I know,” and wanting acknowledgement for that, which it never gets, ha,ha.
And underneath that is the desire to communicate with fellow-travellers about Truth, a kind of Sangha, but I’m beginning to see that SN is not the place for that.
Good one, Karima, and your ‘typical sannyasin quote’ re ‘non-seriousness’ is most amusing (and apt), although that very attitude itself surely deserves its share of self-mockery from its perpetrators (yeah, if only!)…
But I think SN is of more value than you attribute to it here.
“But I think SN is of more value than you attribute to it here.”
Yes, I agree with this.
I’ve worked through matters I didn’t know at the time needed resolving, made sense of, because of SN and because of interacting with everyone.
Multi-layered is S.N.
Karima, I get your point and yes, it is valid. Somehow, I feel that you missed my point. I see it in myself that if I become overly serious in a normal exchange, 9 times out of 10 my ego is at play.
As far as your take on SN goes, it is limited. There is more to SN than meets the eye and in my opinion a good blog site. I don’t feel that I am identified with SN other than it can be a source of enlightentertainment.
Thanks for the offering, Lokesh, particularly the anecdote, which is very illuminating.
It reminded me of some of my own craziness in the past, eg road rage. The experience of meeting and beginning to understand some of my own demons, psychodramas, mind-shoite etc. did not begin until I started doing Osho meditation and therapy.
In this sense, I think that most ‘normal’ (ie non-clinical cases) sannyasins do in fact, to use your words, share a common understanding on such matters, although there are a few exceptions that prove the rule.
Ashok, you’re in morphic resonance territory there…
A lot of the blogs here are a result of the Parmarthic field of magnimosity governed by elliptical waves of fore and afterthought split into three categories of bloggers: those who think after writing, those who write instead of thinking and those who never think whilst writing.
See here for how things happen…
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg
Thx for the video, Martyn. I’ve been reading ‘The Science Delusion’ – radical, thought-and-wonder-provoking stuff indeed.
His wife being Jill Purce, the renowned Tibetan hummer, anointed Lama and sacred spiralist theoretician then one wonders what their combined family credo is, as he is no Buddhist but a Christian God believer, if I remember rightly…Perhaps humming through Carol services?:
“Silent mmmmmm Holy mmmmmmmmmmm:. All is mmmmmm Alll is Brii…..shhhhh! mmmmmmmm….”
Still, his notions are good fodder for dealing with the materialists, Darwinists and Dawkinists who do not attend to issues of their own resonance.
It seems that in philosophic enquiry after Kant (and his entreaty to enquire into what makes us capable of understanding, what the nature of enquiry consists of, rather than what exists to be understood or known of itself) we westerners started imposing mechanistic criteria into the equation, rather than that direct gnosis which was seen as elitist and out of the humanist field of accessibility and research.
There might even be a direct line between that Kantian identification of a pre-ordained religious belief system limitation and the subsequent limitations of mechanistic dialectical materialism seen in Marx, Darwin and Freud, which though investigative were bounded by left-brain analysis. Which is effectively reductionist, reducing items to the their composite functions within a created model or belief in empirical deduction.
However, because the means of enquiry is predetermined by the method and the absolute authority that constructed enquiry has over what is to be investigated or known ( contrasted to Gnosis: as Being of Itself and uncreated, residing and implicit though simultaneously uniquely created, where knower and the known are one through resonance), and through objective separation into duality and never-ending constructs which are aspects of the matrix but do not compose its entirety or reveal its nature, the western model is more like a shattered mirror.
Conversely, attuned resonance is more of a repeating pattern that pulsates like a mandala, and is not fixed into preordained shape to functionally enquire into.
It was only Jill Purce who first told me in session about the active mantric part of the Aramaic lord’s prayer, as I’m not a Gurdjieff or Ouspensky reader where the info came from.
By chance, it would seem, one of my recent students had studied and was friends with her first husband Karl Heinz Stockhausen, whose compositions are unbearable to my ears and make you want to humm to yourself to blot out the noise.
PS: That Lokesh geezer is currently swimming as I type….there is only one word for that ..lucky b&%^$#Trd
Ta, PM, for the link…will take a look. Your categorisation of bloggers though has left me in a bit of a mental pickle – I can’t quite work out which category I am!
“LIFE IS A MYSTERY TO BE LIVED, BUT NOT A PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED.”
Conditions Apply:
1. When other people do the dirty work of politics and military to keep the borders safe. X, Y or Z kind of Westerners with Indian names are not Yazidis.
2. It is also true when other people go for 9 to 5 rut. Do all kind of shitty jobs, pay taxes.
(Two years ago, I was working in old people´s home, changing soiled beds).
Mostly, I am also one of those financial parasites, who sleeps when sleep comes, who wakes up when eyes get open!
I don’t think there are many sannyasins who have contributed significant amount to their national treasury.
El Chudo states, “I don’t think there are many sannyasins who have contributed significant amount to their national treasury.”
Which is merely a reflection of the kind of sannyasins he meets.
I know a number of sannyasins who have, even on a personal level, paid millions in taxes. Besides, just living in a modern society one pays taxes on everything one buys, from gasoline to a packet of smokes and thus the national treasury’s coffers are filled.
Thank you for sharing, Karima.
Yes, Karima, perfectly correct,
SN is not the place for a sangha where the truth can be discussed by serious true seekers like yourself, whose seeking is pure and who knows from experience how stupid the mind is!
These so-called ‘non-serious’ baboons who desire only for their organs to be endlessly titillated and to receive “enlightentertainment” as if they were attending some sort of all-inclusive holiday in an Anglo-Saxon resort are simply proof of the madness of the mind itself!
And some of them are speaking against the mind, but where are they speaking from but the mind itself?
It is a zen koan!
Only two days ago, Swami Bhorat surfaced from deep meditation, turned to me and said:
“You know, Yogi, the mind is like the clap.
You can scratch it and curse it as much as you like, but when you have it, you just have to live with it.”
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN
Please could someone write to them to add this site as a Sangha?
Ta.
ΣΝ or Sigma Nu, a fraternity
Thanks, Bhorat Yogi and Martyn, humour is the best tool of the mind to show the oneness and coming together of the believed separation of emptiness and mind/matter, hi,hi,hi.
I’ll be off now, to curse and scratch a bit more, in the emptiness.
Ah, yes, Karima…the mystique rose to the deep North…where emptiness is full…of loveliness…
-
http://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Chinese/HanShan.htm
-
High, high, the summit peak, Boundless the world to sight! No one knows I am here, Lone moon in the freezing stream. In the stream, where’s the moon? The moon’s always in the sky. I write this poem: and yet, In this poem there is no Zen.
The last sentence (no pun intended) in your offering, A.Yogi, distinctly sounds like titilli-tashun (Oirish Gaeltacht Slime dialect) of the organs to me, which you had distinctly criticised earlier on in your piece, unless I am very much mistaken. A Freudian slip p’haps?
However, now let’s get down to some serious business re the ‘clap’. It all depends on which version of the ‘clap’ that you refer to exactly, as regards to having to live with it. Gonorrhea is, for the most part, curable these days, however the dreaded ‘erps’ would serve as a workable example of your version of the ‘clap’.
A lot is being said about the ‘truth’ here roundabouts so here is a little taster:
Question: What’s the difference between true love and herpes?
Answer: Herpes is for ever!
From a Baboon always ready for a feed supplied by another baboon.
My God!
Now an Irish baboon to complete the full set of British baboons!
I have heard from Alok John that this fellow previously went by the name of Pete O`Foyle, Therapist, but business was understandably slow, so he changed his name to A(shok) Lowen, then many innocent and gullible victims flocked to him as he proceeded to evilly abuse the freedom that Osho had given him!
It is a tragedy that instead of being a true sangha for true seekers, SN has given airtime to non-serious ex-sannyasins, cynical dogs, unsattvic irish gynaecologists, sannyasins who have utterly missed, failed comedians, utterly failed disciples of various ammas and papas, and depraved baboons of all stripes from the idiotic islands of Albion and beyond to give vent to their negativity which is nothing other than the mind!!
Despite the heroic efforts of Shantam, Karima and myself, who have stood firm against the depraved tide of filth pouring from the western mind, with Shantam dressed only in his heavily-stained holy underwear and armed only with a packet of Monodrone pills from the doctor, I fear that the baboons may finally win the day and that Osho’s movement will never again reach the Himalayan heights but be reduced to the level of consciousness of Quiznight at McCarthy’s bar!
Hari Om!
Yahoo!
Pint of Gat!
Lay aside all your anti-baboon rhetoric and claptrap, A. Yogi. Bear in mind that you have finally found a place full of the pure elusive truth you have been seeking in the wilderness for so long.
WELCOME TO SANNYAS NIRVANA (SN), BRO’. This is a place where a soul can truly rest in peace.
A.Yogi, thou (f)art awful, but I like you!
You are welcome, Madhu!
Friends,
I’d like to share just two of the numerous…from the world of Osho:
Swami Deva Coconut arrives in Bombay Airport with his pet parrot on his shoulder. He is intercepted by an Indian customs official who says, “Hey, stop! You have got to pay import duty on that parrot.”.
“How much?”, asks Coconut.
“Let me see”, says the official, paging through his imports book.
“Here we are”, he continues.”Five hundred rupees for an alive parrot, one hundred rupees for a stuffed one.”
“Hey, Coconut”, screams the parrot, “don´t get any crazy ideas!”
and…
Hamish and Maggie MacTavish are queuing for a Movie called ‘The Miracle’.
The girl, settling the tickets, tells Hamish that there are no cheap seats left any more, only a few of the ones costing six dollars each.
Hamish hesitates and consults with Maggie and at length produces two five dollar bills and a handful of loose change.
Hymie Goldberg steps out of the queue and says to Becky, “We can go home now, I have just seen the miracle.”
As well known, me, I am not yet a joke unto myself, and what I feel is neither have most of you arrived constantly at such stage.
But those who remember the precious Sangha laughter, some of which is compiled in a joke-memory book of Osho’s, titled:
‘TAKE IT REALLY SERIOUSLY’…
May you have a Monday´s laughter with me? Elsewhere? Or here?
Under ONE SKY…
Madhu
It’s the way he told ‘em, Madhu….
Maddie,
Laughter is like oxygen.
It is only “precious” when you don’t have enough of it.
Perfectly correct, Madhu.
Like you, I also feel that none of these self-styled ‘non-serious’ baboons who claim to be a light unto themselves have reached anywhere near the state of being a joke unto themselves!
Until they achieve this exalted state, their ‘jokes’ are meaningless, their attempts at humour are merely mind- stuff and their laughter is nothing more than vomit…the release of blocked energy from a diseased system!
You are perfectly right to issue a loving reminder to these utterly failed sannyasins to TAKE IT REALLY SERIOUSLY!
Swami Bhorat takes it very seriously indeed!
Only yesterday, he turned to me as we were enjoying a precious moment in his bathroom and said:
“You know, Yogi, a good joke is like the clap.
For a long time you don`t get. You even think you may never get it. But when you finally do get it…it can hurt so much that you can`t even get up off the floor!”
Yahoo!
Hari Om!
Thou art that!
Jus’ like that!
Night-Report to SN:
I spent the rest of the day yesterday here with a lot of people who love but one thing: to chill out while being in torture games and laughing about those whom they torture.
It was a multi-”cultural” expert team group. Indeed, I had nothing to laugh about in this game. But I was amusing those who just love ‘to play’, like some of you do.
It is true that I am not a joke unto myself, but you should see those laughing their big Bavarian bellies off when they can harm in a most sophisticated way – performed as a “joke”.
Maybe they are disciples of some of the males posting here, who knows?
Madhu
Madhu, sounds like you got in with the wrong crowd.
Something that I have just written to SP about how Osho provided a very special place for personal transformation has brought me back to the subject heading of Lokesh’s article, namely: SANNYASIN/EX-SANNYASIN. WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?
As far as I am concerned, if you continue to live your life on the basis of significant changes that the Osho experience brought about, then you will always be a sannyasin at heart. The outward ‘trappings’ of sannyas e.g. initiation rite, mala, name change, Osho transcripts, and regular attendance of the White Robe EM, are not even remotely significant and should be considered as constituting ‘fluff’.
In fact, I would go as far to say that obsession with the ‘fluff’ represents a pre-sannyasin stage that maybe some need to go thru afore they get to grips with the real McCoy, ie self-awareness and personal transformation.
Tragically, it seems that some never get beyond the ‘fluffing it up stage’ and may go on to become fully-fledged ‘Holy Shoiters’, i.e.’worshippers’ who criticise others for sharing some humour, and for taking a realistic & grounded view of some of the things that Osho did.
So p’haps what we should be looking at here is the mind-set of the pre-sannyasin.
Yes, Ashok, I can relate to that.
Glad I’m not alone. I would like to say some more to you, Lokesh, but I fear that Madhu will accuse me of trying to stick my head up your kilt (aka ‘buddying up’, I think she calls it) again!
Is there some hunger to be sannyasin by heart?
What is the need for that?
Founder has died, has gone back somewhere, not to come again.
What is the need for this bloody religious faithfulness to some concept called Sannyas?
SP asks: “Is there some hunger to be sannyasin by heart?”
Ashok replies: “No.”
SP asks: “What is the need for this bloody religious faithfulness to some concept called Sannyas?”
Ashok replies: “None!”
Chudo, that’s a bit rich coming from you. Put your chuddies back on.
As far as your mindset is concerned, Ashok, which passes a server of UK chat, it is the mindset of a Taliban.
And so are your ‘jokes’, looking for buddies –
and that is out of any joke!
Madhu
Dearest Madhu!
Keep your knickers on, girl!
Now, let’s get down to business…Is your message to me of a sincere and serious nature?
I shall assume for the moment that it is, and therefore firstly will categorically repute your vile imputation that I have the mindset of a Taliban! Really Madhu, whatever has got into you? Nothing could be further from the truth! I detest the Taliban and their radicalism as much as any other decent, peace-loving human being! Just because I criticise some aspects of Osho’s work, people and legacy that have more than a whiff of religious shoite about them, you brand me as some kind of irrational extremist.
Please remember that Osho himself gave instructions to not allow his movement to become a neo-religious entity, hence the removal of the podium in Buddha Grove, the gradual removal of pictures of Osho etc in the Resort and so on. If anybody is acting with the mind-set of a Taliban, then your knee-jerk reaction to my piece would indicate that it is you!
Madhu, I am sorry to have to say this, but it is not the first time you have projected your stuff on me, is it?
All I have attempted to do here is jump-start (with a little bit of spicy language), what I felt is a discussion running out of steam, whilst the subject is still ripe with many possible avenues to explore. So in a sense I am happy that you have reacted in the way you have.
Now please articulate some reasons as to why you disagree with me more substantial than your claim that all I have tried to do is win ‘buddies’. Quite clearly in your case it would appear I have achieved the opposite.
Ashok,
Who has given you the following information?
“Please remember that Osho himself gave instructions to not allow his movement to become a neo-religious entity, hence the removal of the podium in Buddha Grove, the gradual removal of pictures of Osho etc. in the Resort and so on.”
Bloody hell, SP! You’re fast on the draw, aren’t you? I wonder why? Now as it happens SP, I can’t honestly remember….it might have been somebody in the Management of Multi-media, Pune, where I was also informed that Osho wanted any factual errors in his transripts to be corrected. I couldn’t say for sure.
The truth is, I don’t think it is relevant to this discussion, unless you have a political agenda under your belt. The only thing that is important as far as I am concerned is that Osho did not want his movement to evolve into a conventional-type religious organisation like the Catholic Church, did he? Could be I have been misinformed about this latter piece of info? I don’t think so.
You may not like what I say, SP, but one of the things that I wholeheartedly agree with is the dismantling of anything that smacks of conventional religion, practice and idolatry etc. by the current MisManagement team. It is one of very few things I would actually congratulate them for.
Ashok, when were you in Pune for first or last time?
Now you are a regular contributor at Sannyasnews, is it not appropriate to ask for your photo – I mean regular photo, not in bra and panty hose!
Detective Chudo is back in town.
`Sounds like you are trying to ID me, Shantam! Do you suspect that I might be a MisManagement spy keeping an eye on you and others hereabouts? Don’t worry, the last time I was there they were about to ban me or at the very least give me another stiff warning. I considered all this a ‘coming of age’ and personally awarded myself ‘Full Sannyasin Rebel’ honours.
I don’t like this ‘regular’ contributor status you have attributed to me. Couldn’t it be something like ‘exceptional’ contributor?
Now as regards to your request for a foty: I hope you are not getting the hots for me or something, are you? Please note that when I confessed to sometimes wearing women’s knickers, it is for the benefit of females comfortable with a masculine role in the love-making area.
I will, however, see if I can find a foty to load up to the Caravanserai, so that you can all appreciate my handsome, manly, authentic ‘sannyasin male’ features!
Dear Ashok,
I was sure yóu are not planted by OFI or FBI.
I always nudge contributors to post their photo for the simple reason I wish them to be proud of their writing. We are not terrorists or leftists or rightists. Why not therefore stand with one’s words and expressions?
And also it gives clear insight to the readers whether person is writing from his own or it is borrowed or there is some pathological trait behind.
When I say something to someone, I also try to follow the lead. So here is my photo. When I told my younger son to click in this Jesus kind of pose, he looked at me with the expression, “Papa, I know you are not normal.”
Ok, Shantam,your wish has come true. At this point, I would like to remind you of a very old and wise saying which goes something like: “Be careful what you wish for!”
So hereabouts, if I have managed to get all the darn technical details rite, you will see a picture of me in all my glory taken about a month ago. I don’t bother taking foties of meself these days, but there are lots of admiring females who do (as was indeed the case here!).
Feast your eyes on my manly sannyasin profile and demeanour. This is what the ‘fully-developed’ authentic sannyasin man looks like…irresistible to any woman worth her salt. Being a clear example of the ‘ideal tantric man’, it would not surprise me if the Moderator decides to replicate all of this in the “Ideal Man, Ideal Woman” thread so as to provide that discussion with something more tangible than what is currently going on over there.
Please notice the beautiful flowers in the garden that surround me in this pic – they were all cultivated with my own special brand of TLC. I spend some hours every day working as a volunteer gardener, creating beautiful spaces similar to the beautiful spaces I create in the SN garden with my own special brand of manure!
Taliban, by evidence, Ashok, treat the female worse than their cattle.
And with that contempt they talk about female qualities amongst their so-called ‘brothers’.
That’s what I have been referring to.
Madhu
PS:
I don’t wear knickers.
Oh, oh, Madhu has joined the Chuddyban.
I see…or p’haps fortunately, I don’t! It often amazes me what is unearthed and revealed in the ‘search for the ultimate truth’ at SN! Is this the kind of ‘truth’ that Karima and A.Yogi considered to be lacking hereabouts? Please bear in mind, Madhu, that autumn is fast approaching, to be quickly followed by winter and therefore your current dress habits may be neither wise nor healthy!
Now, with regard to your comments about what you perceive as an attack on the ‘sacred feminine’ on my part and others. Please note, Fraulein Dagmar Frantzen, that I do note equate conventional religious rite and practice with the ‘feminine’. In fact I would have to say that it has a decidedly ‘masculine’ feel about it. Who is generally in charge of the major world religions? Who are the principal authors of, and protagonists in, carrying out the various different rites and ceremonies? Who elects the Pope? Men. Men. Men!
It might be a surprise to you to learn that since I became a sannyasin I have taken great joy in discovering and developing my own feminine side and qualities to such an extent that on occasion and unlike you ( I feel I must confess) I have taken to wearing women’s knickers! I hope you and others hereabouts will not be shocked by my own personal revelation!
Now, having got that burden off my mind, I think I should bring this post back in line with the subject heading. Therefore, I think it is fair to say that becoming a sannyasin entails making peace with one’s masculine and feminine qualities where necessary. To undo and renege on that kind of valuable personal development would constitute becoming an ‘ex-sannyasin’, I believe.
In conclusion, therefore, I have a question for Lokesh: How does the ‘Divine Feminine’ manifest itself in you? Have you been neglecting the ‘her’ in you recently? Is this the reason why some have labelled you an ‘ex-sannyasin? Please be candid.
For some, no doubt, a somewhat (a)shoking post there, Ashok…
However, in the spirit of self-revelation, I would now like to announce (rather than ‘admit’) that in order to counter-balance an excess of testosteronic influence, within and without, I make a point of wearing a skirt, nylon stockings and high-heels – while watching football on tv or online (at home only, of course) – carefully watching my breath throughout the 90-plus minutes.
Believe it or not, the latter was recommended by the person running my very first dynamic meditation course in London, in response to someone’s question re ‘how to watch football without losing awareness’. Bit tricky though at times, especially when you’ve got a fair amount of cash on the outcome…
But as Lokesh says, that’s the ‘divine life’, I guess – you get nuffin’ for nuffin’….
Thx for yr patience, mods!
Doesn’t surprise me one bit, SD, that you are not shocked by my revelation- as well as your own readiness for a bit of special frivolity from time to time. I had it worked out many moons ago that you and I have very much in common. I think this might have something to do with the ‘morphic resonance’ connection PM mentioned.
The transgender sannyban…it’s appalling.
Signed,
Mrs. Gladys Periwinkle (Derek Arthur Lowen),
Tunbridge Wells.
Sing this LIVE song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWjh6I9T8Ao
Lokesh, there is no such thing as ex-sannyasin. If you cannot be a sannyasin, then just forget all about it and don’t mess around.