I suggest what should ideally happen (and should ideally have happened then) was for any ‘rejects’ to be carefully informed as to the reasons for their exclusion – and, crucially, to be recommended or offered one-on-one counselling/therapy (whatever) to help them move on, to do what it takes to get themselves together (or more together), so that they might hopefully be ‘ready’ for a similar enterprise in the future (should they still be interested).

Apart from a continuous current of incipient and actual violence, emotional and physical, during those 3 months (Somendra euphemistically put it down to “personality issues”) a measure of just how inappropriate and even destructive this group was is that the only three contacts I ever had with any fellow-participants after it had finished were chance meetings, ie:

1/ receiving a very condescending, brief remark from someone I ‘ran into’ who happened to be working for a day or two in the same place as me.

2/ a similarly judgmental, contemptuous attitude and the memorable remark that I was “just an old dosser” from another (extremely amusing now, but not so much back then, when I was beginning to attempt to move out of the mire).

and 3/ a chance meeting with Somendra himself on Hampstead Heath, London, where I was enjoying working in a summer job, 3 and a 1/2 years later, who, when he heard I wasn’t bothering with any more groups, rather nervously responded, “Oh, that was ‘the group to end all groups’ then!” – before hurrying away, seemingly rather embarrassed and at a loss for words…

At the end of the Intensive, all he could say to me was that I “should go to Poona” as “there’s much more of a community there now” and it was “a waste of time” for me to do any more groups in England “at the level they’re at”. I suppose he meant well, but how on earth he expected me to do that in the state I was in, God only knows…(and how come he was surprised that I wasn’t involved in any further such initiatives?). It might have been helpful to have received some more practical, grounded help and advice as to how to proceed from ‘rock bottom’, but that wasn’t what he was about, apparently.

Also at the end of the Intensive, when I was still in significant financial arrears with the fees, barely having made ends meet before and during it all, he simply suggested I “get a better-paid job”, in the tone of voice which implied that was somehow pretty straightforward, even easy, which at that point it most certainly was not, demonstrating what little grasp he had of such basic realities of my real life practical situation.

Anyway, sure, eventually I ‘got through’, improved on all levels – but in the shadow of the cost of a lot of already very fragile self-esteem and ‘faith’ in Sannyas as a viable way for the likes of me. And I’ve certainly never done or wanted to do any similar group – no way, no matter how ‘seductively’ it might be packaged, or how eminent the person running the show, or how much others might have waxed lyrical on how great it was or would be.

As for ‘transference’, well, surely any therapist worth his/her salt will have been trained to spot and deal with that almost inevitable symptom in a long-term one-to-one situation, for the benefit of the client? I recall that when I did part of a ‘Body/Mind Therapy Training’ with the eminent Glyn Seaborn-Jones, he devoted the very first session (maybe two) to this very topic, clearly regarding it as fundamental.

The sort of “vulnerable” people excluded from groups are exactly those that need individual attention, or less ‘extreme’, less ‘confrontational’, more gently ‘supportive’ situations, aren’t they?

In darshan, Osho himself used to choose groups for people, including steering them away from inappropriate ones. I recall that he wouldn’t even allow me to engage in one-on-one ‘madness competitions’ (where the idea was to ‘defeat’ the other person by being ‘madder’ than him/her), gently advising me to “do it alone”. And as for “relationships”, his advice to me, aged 27, was just to “forget about” them (which I had anyway, since I was 21!).

When sharing that the last two days I have been (again, again) into inner research about the dilemma and the fatal consequences of what is called ‘Double Bind’, also ‘Posthypnotic Suggestions’, ‘no-win’ situations for the so exposed, up to a thoroughy damaging process, ‘Soul Killers’ – if any of you still presume that everyone is born as a Soul Being, besides bodymind psyche.

I myself do presume that, by the way.

If the way human beings are nowadays and – maybe especially – when their expression is transferred to a computer screen in terms of an algorithm, if that way we can maintain Trust in the quality of human inter-relating for a vision of ‘win-win’ situations? To enrich each other or to support each other instead of fighting? Or is it possible to send off a peace-train of reconciliation of unresolved stuff, individually as well as collectively too?

Open questions – for me.

Yesterday, I walked the inner research about ‘Double Binds’ by the River Isar here – a river but such a good teacher helping in its very special way. The Wiki page I had chosen had also put me on a long memory line in my life, including Sannyas…Listening to the river recommended to stay with especially two of the issues mentioned there:

One is connected to Lewis Carroll’s ‘Through The Looking Glass And What Alice Found There’,
the other one connected to Zen Mastery and the essence of ‘river’ too.

And here I am, at Sannyas News and wish us ALL well on a Monday morning.

Madhu

PS:
http://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Double_bind#Examples

Is that even more so after taking Sannyas, or does heightened awareness make it seem so?

We often do not know where people are coming from when they say things like this. It must be unsettling for you when someone denies the authenticity of your own name and I understand this.

Right now, I will sit back in the background and see what you and others post as I do not know you at all.

I have actually met a few people over time who were ‘rejected’ from doing groups, and even more who were rejected from commune membership. Their accounts of their feelings were sad…and bespoke all sorts of things about not being worthy, etc.

This is not meant as an argument against ‘vetting’ but just to show whether one passes the vetting or not, a raft of feelings are likely to be produced and needing to be dealt with.

A word or two from someone who has reached maturity can certainly help, whatever the situation, in a one-to-one setting. However, transference can be a greater problem in one-to-one situations, rather than group psychotherapy, where the client is less prone to transference.

I never did much therapy, a day here, a session there, a weekend there. My experience varied from indifferent to quite good. However, I always had a very good nose for bullshit, so I was never taken advantage of.

I never visited Pune 1 but I suspect there was magic in the air, to say the least.

But then, if you are selling healing, you have to make sure you don`t lose the placebo effect.
A lot of all healing is about building up a positive expectation.

Again, it’s like the acid thing. The dealer isn`t going to say, “Here, get this down your neck, you might blend into total oneness or you might lob yourself out of a 17 storey window, who knows?” He needs a positive slant.

Memories are one thing, but lets face it, if anyone here on SN could go back in time for 24hrs to all that, they would probably have to have been wheeled out laughing at the silliness and delusoriness of it all and would have ended up either in Deolally or been declared enlightened!

I was keen to take part in the ‘Intensive’ as I believed the promo hype, which intimated that there was the prospect of somehow finally transcending the sort of limitations that had severely contracted my life for years, through prolonged exposure to the ‘magical energy work’ on offer. Indeed, Somendra himself had even once told me that I had “the potential to do the same sort of work” as he was doing! I mean, what a mouth-watering prospect for a young guy who desperately needed a radical change!

Unfortunately, however, it was a pile of unrealistic, irresponsible codswallop. Me (and a few others) doing that group was akin to signing up to a course on writing a novel – while barely able to put a single sentence together!

That’s why I recently suggested here (with Alok) that exaggerated claims made in promotional material (aka ‘hype’) for groups might have much to answer for in terms of ‘fraud’, and, as I’ve just outlined, also even for potential and actual ‘casualties’ incurred by the enterprise.

I suspect that certain purveyors of vaguely similar set-ups, including Swami Rajneesh with his asinine “for enlightenment, only dancing is needed” are also leading the gullible (again I agree with Alok) on an essentially false trail and into eventual disillusionment. But that’s another story and more than “enough for today”….

There isn’t a definitive ‘for the greater common good’ conclusion about whether “therapy” was efficacious or damaging. (There is less consensus on that for ‘therapy without apostrophes’ than most people imagine, btw).

Like Alan says, it was all a bit Leonard Cohen:
“Like a bird on a wire
Like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free…”

Osho was giving the Mahakashyapasyougoalong transmission.
Peeka peeka, risky business!

Look at Osho`s close entourage:
Vivek killed herself.
Sheela`s still has a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock.
That is two shots of pretty serious collateral damage for a movement that was trying to “prevent global suicide” and deal a blow to “politicians and priests” – and there were a few more.

Still…
Setting sail on that open sea…
And raising an orange Jolly Roger…
The odd shipwreck and some casualties were bound to happen…
And most importantly…
What was the alternative?

Born a generation earlier and I woulda been getting ‘therapy’ from Swami Adolf and all…

You won`t hear me complaining.