On Oshonews
- Vimal Pieter 16/05/2012
- A Cup of Tea (24) 16/05/2012
- Liquid Cello by Kalyan 15/05/2012
- Japan without Nuclear Power 15/05/2012
- Which Sugar Makes You Fat? 15/05/2012
- Enigmatic India 15/05/2012
Group Admins
The Humaniversity
Public Group active 2 months agoDiscussion of the Humaniversity Holland, and Osho Leela.
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
The Humaniversity 2 months ago
I remember when I did groups in Pune in 1988 to 1990, we were always reminded by our group leaders to do Dynamic at 7AM, Kundalini at 5:15PM and go to discourse (video discourse if Osho was not well) at 7PM every day of the group. In other words, Osho’s meditations were always important even while doing a group. Therapy never replaced…[Read more]
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
Has anyone seen this group advertised at the Humaniversity: Chandrika’s Mama and Papa group? See this link.
http://www.aummeditation.se/mama-papa.html
Is it possible that this group encourages perpetual therapy by group leaders acting acting as surrogate parents where participants have to always come back for more instead of guiding…[Read more]
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Parmartha posted an update in the group
These humaniversity groups are basically a minority interets. My observation is that they seem to appeal to people who have self-importance and bullying tendencies, and those are the ones who end up living in that community. BUT my experience is simply that NOT AT ALL all sannyasins universally like such groups, or bother to partake in them. …[Read more]
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
Correction to sentence of last post:Though he had many criticisms of what went on, to the best of my belief, he never said anything afterwards which would be confrontational to the sannyasin therapists or higher ups.
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
Answer to JCP’s question Dec 18, 2011 (I have a difficult time typing in a narrow column):
I was disappointed when this friend of mine left the sannyasin community after a brief confrontation with the Aum Meditation leader over the Porno Dancing stage (although he made a few rare appearances at .sannyasin events and he kept in contact with his…[Read more]-
When exactly did all this happen?
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It happened during the late 80s
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Canada wrote “On the other hand however, I think that he felt that it was no use to say anything because it would only fall on deaf ears. Nobody seemed to care. ”
It is also my experience that the Humaniversity people have deaf ears, do not seem to care about criticisms. It appears that the bottom line is sadly getting enough people to pay…[Read more]
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It is not only Humaniversity leaders who have deaf ears which is understandable. It is also Humaniversity participants who have deaf ears which I do not find understandable. Some of this criticism aimed at group leaders might be beneficial knowledge to them. In spite of that often I have experienced intense anger from them. Some people seem to be…[Read more]
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I think that this why a even rebellious sannyasin finds that it is no use to deal with these people anymore and will go somewhere else.
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Canada wrote :” It is also Humaniversity participants who have deaf ears which I do not find understandable. Some of this criticism aimed at group leaders might be beneficial knowledge to them.”
Who knows. As Jay says maybe they are not too bright, so cannot deal with having their beliefs challenged.
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Though I was disappointed that my friend left the sannyas scene perhaps he was right when he said that it no use saying anything because nobody listened,
Another thing too, a lot people like the Aum Meditation (including me) because it brought people close together in interaction which is rarely experienced elsewhere. I liked the namaste part.…[Read more]
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
I like to stress that I am not invalidating the positive experiences of some of those who went to the Humaniversity. More power to you. I am just addressing issues about casualties some people have suffered at the Humaniversity.
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
My Question of the Day:
Why do sannyasins often experience extreme hostility and anger from other non therapist sannyasins when they mention the least bit perceived shortcoming of a sannyasin therapist even if they have made also some positive comments about this sannyasin therapist? In other words, why are positive comments are extremely welcome…[Read more]
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What an odd question. You talk about sannyasins as if they all react in this way. I’m sure there’s some that do but not all.
I have a suspicion this is all a bit hypothetical, when was the last time you actually had a conversation like this with a sannyasin and got this response?
I see your saying, if the negative gets mentioned, then…[Read more]
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No not all sannyasins react in this way. I had a few bad experiences with therapy groups but I discovered that it was wrong to invalidate the positive experiences that others experienced as much as it was wrong for others to invalidate my experiences. That is where things are confusing. Nothing is black and white. Some psychologists call this…[Read more]
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’We should not be angry at what others experience but develop instead a curiosity of where the person is coming from.’
I couldn’t agree more, then there is a chance of fruitful dialogue, and a possibility for both side to see new perspectives.
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maybe in the past, I felt vengeful and wanted to destroy therapists’ careers but today I am beyond that.
I would like to see dialogue between Veeresh, Chandrika et al and those who felt that they got negative experiences from the Humaniversity. When I hear that they ban people who criticize them or attempt to shut down blogs and websites that…[Read more]
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My impression is that many sannyasins were on the make in one way or another. So if Canada criticises snake oil therapist 1, he may criticise snake oil therapist 2 and 3 etc. Peoples livelihoods are at stake, remember, so they get defensive.
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
Various You Tube videos of the Humaniversity and specifically Veeresh: there are both negative and positive comments posted to these videos which are interesting
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
Here is another website that talks about the Humaniversity and Veeresh. Whether or not this site is truthful or slanderous or a bit of both will be left up to the reader to decide:
http://sarlo-guru-ratings-service.blogspot.com/2009/06/hidden-agenda-of-sarlos-guru-rating.html
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Sarlo is a good egg. He runs living Osho the way Pramartha and Dhanam run Sannyas news. He leans over back wards to avoid being dictatorial. He doesn’t join in at Living Osho as much as Pramartha does here, in the sense of contributions.
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I personally know very little about Sarlo. I only posted the website address on the Humaniversity group because it talks a little bit about Veeresh and the Humaniversity (which would be of interest to people in that group) as well as Sarlo.
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Whats your personal background, personal connection, story to humaniversity?
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I did aum meditations and a few other Humaniversity things about 20 years ago though not at the Humaniversity in Holland
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I did an Aum Marathon during the seventies in London. When it was over I went and bought a packet of cigarettes for the first time in my life. That is about my clearest memory from that time.
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Jai Bhagwan.
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
For a person to make a decision to go to the Humaniversity or not, one should be armed with as much information as possible from both positive and negative sources on the internet. A lot of the people with whom I have spoken have had many positive experiences at the Humaniversity. However, it is clear that many people also had bad experiences…[Read more]
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can any one help me for sanyas
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where r u? what r u looking for?
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Yes the first article is quite good. I have also read the rickross pages on the Humaniversity. I must say sometimes I think the Humaniversity epitomises the decline of the West into complete materialism with no values at all except anything goes….greed is good and the survival of the fittest.
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some of that rick ross anti-cult stuff is even more dubious than the propaganda of the cults themselves.
i would take that lot with a large rock of salt,for sure.-
some guy wrote on there,inventing a story about how a girl he knew had got into eckhart tolle.cut off from her family,stopped eating,acting weird and ended up killing herself,all from reading “the power of now”…a kind of 50s “reefer madness” tone horror story.
the regular idiots on rick ross all responded with outraged tones to the…[Read more]-
The thing that bothers me the most of about websites like http://www.rickross.com is that they have a huge list of religions considered to be cults and yet mainstream Christian churches, for example, do not appear on the list when they are often the biggest violators of brainwashing, blind following etc. This is bigotry. If what you say is true then I…[Read more]
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I agree that the rickross site should be read with a critical mind. But I agree with Canada when he says ”That does mean though that there is nothing truthful posted on this website and it should be ignored?”
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Somehow a lot of sannyasins have misinterpreted Osho’s work in having the idea that sannyas is freedom and it means that they can do what ever they want including stepping on other people’s toes. Freedom to them means, for example, using false therapy to rip people off. A sannyasin cannot make an honest living so he invents some gobbly gook as…[Read more]
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its true that the rick ross site probably still has some valid points on it,but their closed mindedness spoils it….
out of interest,canadaflower re. humaniversity as a rehab.do you know anyone who actually got off all drugs by going there?(i dont mean eg stopping smack and replacing it with puff and booze etc)
most folks i know eneded up doing more?!-
I agree with your assessment of the Rick Ross site. A lot of anti-cult organizations such as Rick Ross are financed by mainstream churches such as the Anglican Church when mainstream churches themselves have been in the business for hundreds of years of brainwashing and manipulating their flock. Hence these mainstream churches are not against…[Read more]
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I agree with Canada….”Somehow a lot of sannyasins have misinterpreted Osho’s work in having the idea that sannyas is freedom and it means that they can do what ever they want including stepping on other people’s toes…”
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What I find most apalling is how Veeresh, Chandrika, and other people responded the website published by the Brazilian sannyasin and the Humaniversity Friends Yahoogroup.
Instead of Veeresh, Chandrika et al responding to questions and concerns of people on these 2 websites, they chose to banish the Brazilian sannyasin and they contacted the Yahoo…[Read more]
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You are right of course Canada. That so few sannyasins protest the Humaniversity shows there is something wrong with most first generation sannyasins.
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I would like to add that that the Brazilian sannyasin who wrote that webpage wanted sincerely to suggest improvements to the Humaniversity. If Veeresh, Chandrika et al dropped their egos and listened to what this fellow said, perhaps the Humaniversity would be a fantastic place today for personal growth.
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What do you mean by first and second generation sannyasins? I take it that you mean that first generation sannyasins are those who were attracted by Osho in the beginning but somehow got sidetracked by adulating guru minded sannyasin therapists. My guess is that a second generation sannyasin will assess a sannyasin therapist by his or her merit…[Read more]
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Canada wrote “What do you mean by first and second generation sannyasins?” Sorry I was not clear. Roughly I meant a first generation sannyasin is someone who took sannyas when Osho was alive and was an adult at the time. Say people born between 1930 and 1970, this would include the baby boomers. When I first visited an Osho centre in the…[Read more]
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I guess that many ”first generation” sannysins had gurus like ”Fritz Perls” and Osho was only secondary.
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Once when I did a group with Vismaya, about 1983, the first thing she siad was ”Never mind what He (ie Osho) says.” I thought this was a bad omen for the future of the movement.
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Parmartha posted an update in the group
Alok, etc,
I have met at least five people who definitely should not have been exposed to Humaniversity therapy. one spends long periods in a mental hospital even now. I have also met a number of people who clearly seem to have benefited from it.
The Humaniversity may be a degree more professional now, but it clearly needs to be much more careful…[Read more]-
Strong survival of the fittest element to being round people with Osho sannyas names, and their hangers on. (>>)
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This is true but I doubt Osho meant to teach social darwinism/Nazism
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Well you know I’ve said before that a huge element of least bad of available alternatives seems to me to go, and maybe it was a lesson in developing the survival instinct. or just an unfortunate side effect. I don’t know.
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I agree
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parmartha,
re “therapeutic relationships which are abusive and kick the weak”
have you read “against therapy”by jeffrey masson?
he puts forward the argument forcefully that therapy itself is exactly such an abusive relationship per se.
whilst many would agree that this has been true in the history of psychiatry,few wish to entertain this…[Read more]-
Thanks Frank. Heard of the book often but never took a look. Will try and find a copy. Therapy, in the way I am talking about it, is a voluntary relationship, so, as they say, it takes two to tango.
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It is a very good book, if a bit dated. I tend to the opinion that one should never go to a therapist, however bad things are going. Something degrading about going to see a therapist, IMHO.
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I am not really talking here about madness. There is certainly a sense in which the human condition is one of universal madness – agreed. I am talking of comparative vulnerability. I see no sense in a so-called therapeutic relationship which is abusive and kicks the weak. Such kicking is another form of weakness itself.
When you talk of…[Read more] -
I visited the local mosque a few times. Hendon has a large Pakistani Muslim community. I would assess the mental health of the people I saw as good.
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canadafollower posted an update in the group
Dear Pooh
When I went to change my profile, this website stated that when I did this, I would lose all my postings and the replies to those postings. Before my posting was deleted, I copied and pasted my posting in a file and I reposted it. You can do the same by reposting your replies. -
canadafollower posted an update in the group
I have found all your discussions about Aum Meditation very interesting. Here are my observations when I did this 2 1/2 hour event when it first came out in 1988:
I thought it that it was fun and exhilarating. It certainly moved a lot of energy and it was a good way to connect with people.
However there were also flaws:
1)during the ”I hate…[Read more]
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I am the big bad Canuck for dirty oil
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canadafollower joined the group
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alokjohn posted an update in the group
Parmartha, you show good judgement in never visiting Leela. I always had a funny feeling about the place when I went.
Jay, I don’t think many sannyasins have advanced degrees, ie masters or doctorates. Quite a few have batchelor degrees, but as you say they do not seemed to have gained much from their education.
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Come to think of it, I might have read about that study in Cities on a Hill by Frances FitzGerald which has a large depressing chapter on Rajneeshpuram. It does occur to me to ask if the Oregon sociology dept actually saw the certificates. In the febrile atmosphere of Rajneeshpuram, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that lots of sannyasins…[Read more]
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Parmartha posted an update in the group
I have never been to the Humaniversity, and never been to Osho Leela (UK), and dont think this is an accident! I have had many opportunities, but something always did not feel right.
I met Veeresh a few times informally in Pune one, and once in a cellar off the Tufnell Park Road when he was trying to turn people on to a new south American…[Read more]-
Turning people onto drugs does not sound that it would Osho’s approval. Something is funny here.
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Parmartha joined the group
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sannyasnews joined the group
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alokjohn posted an update in the group
See the photo in Veeresh article on noticeboard. Very authoritarian
Is V sincere or a crook? Discuss.
For example in the interview ”All businesses are based on profit. We’re not. We’re based on love, friendship, communication, good things. The money comes as a result of that, it’s not our priority.”
But if you decide a group is not for you…[Read more]
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I like Veeresh. Haven’t seen him in years, but he’s alright in my book, which is black leather and has a skull and crossbones embossed on the front cover.
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I do not dislike him.
But the AUM and the Humaniversity trainings have real effects. People become more aggressive, and often become manipulative, amoral, and bullies, at least to some degree. This helps them survive in England.
But I doubt this was what Osho intended through thirty years of teaching, through his discourses and meditations. …[Read more]
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Hi Alok,
I am new at posting here but what you and others write about the Humaniversity is all very interesting to me. I did Humaniversity at least 20 years ago although I never went to the Humaniversity itself. The Humaniversity groups themselves are very interesting but yes there is a big problem with manipulation, amorality and bullying which…[Read more]-
This was about ten years ago. Leela had a fund raising event in London. People were encouraged to pledge money which was to be collected later….lots of music and clapping….you can imagine the scene. Then my friend L pledged hundreds of pounds. Another friend asked Dhyano not to collect the money because L suffered from bipolar disorder,…[Read more]
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I have seen amoral things amongst sannyasin such an event advertised in a faraway location. One would make a phone call to see how much such an event would cost and then get a price quoted. Once the person would arrive there, they would make him pay far greater than the quoted price. The person would accept paying more reluctantly because he spent…[Read more]
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I can well imagine such things happening.
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Do you know much about Dhyano aka Chris Harding. It seems to me that did a stunt of walking barefoot over broken glass on You Tube. What is his background?
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I think he was once in the army. I believe he made some money by smuggling alcohol across the English Channel.
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Now we suspect that he is making money off gullible sannyasins
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I think he is more or less retired now.
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It is incredible how people can get away with murder when it comes to vulnerable such as L-it is incredible how people can lack empathy for other people’s pain and suffering just to make money and fill their pockets
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I agree it is terrible. Sannyas was or is full of people like this. You can understand why there was such a disaster at the Ranch. I think many sannyasins follow the religion of Me-ism of Self-ism, ie they worship themselves, which comes from so called Humanistic psychology.
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What happened at the ranch does not surprise me when I see type of sannyasins that I see today. Are you talking about narcissism? I think though that there are sannyasins out who understand Osho’s work but choose to be alone rather than be part of the me-ist or self-ist sannyasin community.
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You thought that this event was fun from what you wrote in the past. You just did not like what they did to L.
Often there are events like this that have sannyasins with open hearts and the leaders of the event take advantage of these open hearts to do ugly things like selling fake certificates and ripping off L. I have experienced similar…[Read more]
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Another thought: The positive thing about big events such as the Leela fundraising event is that there is a lot of strong energy and at these events one tends to run into sanyasins whom you have not seen for a long time. The nice thing about this is that a lot of sannyasins who can not go regularly to events because they are busy with work etc.…[Read more]
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According to you, is shouting at a person directly in his face so that the person goes into shellshock is a way at the Humaniversity to manipulate people?
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I did the vile AUM twice in my life which is more than enough for me. Both times I got shellshocked like you did.
“is shouting at a person directly in his face so that the person goes into shellshock is a way at the Humaniversity to manipulate people?”
Quite possibly, though I do not know if it is part of a deliberate plan to fleece…[Read more]
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I enjoyed most parts of the AUM meditation except for the flaws that I mentioned and that I did not mention. Even though it seemed to be a wierd pastiche of steps from Osho’s meditations such as the “running” stage from the Mandela meditation and shaking from Kundalini, it probably was inspired by Osho. I do not know. What though first raised a…[Read more]
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I remember doing a group in Pune in 1989 and one fellow said that he was was recently at the Humaniversity. Later during the group, he shouted at another fellow right in his face and the other fellow looked shock. I had never seen anyhting like this before.
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sorry that I did proofread: I meant shocked
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At the Humaniversity, is it clearly stated in writing or otherwise that once a group starts it is 100% non-refundable?
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I read it in their brochure. But I could not find it in their on line brochure today. They might have changed it.
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As long as they make things clear about their refund policies, then I do not see a problem.
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alokjohn created the group
Groups are just something to work through, but I’ve met a lot of people who make them an end in themselves, rather than a means to an end.
Often wonder if the main purpose of groups at the ashram wasn’t just to give people something to keep them busy, and then the bonding, in the best sense of the word, that came out of it.
Got involved in a…[Read more]
Would you happen to know what percentage of sannyasins are involved in Humaniversity activities? My idea is that people who have self-importance and bullying tendencies probably get to make it to the top and run the Humaniversity but others also participate in Humaniversity activities because they believe wrongly or rightly that these activities…[Read more]
Between 5 and 10% in Europe and Australia/New Zealand. .
Virtually no-one you would meet in India or Nepal would have done a humaniversity group.
Never found myself that Americans or Canadians were that interested in group work generally, alone the Humaniversity type groups, so less than 5% there.
What I have seen is that yes generally in the Americas (North and South), it does not seem that Humaniversity groups have been too popular. The only place in the Americas where Aum Meditation has been going on a regular basis since 1988 and has maintained popularity is Montreal. Check out the Humaniversity.nl website to see where Aum Meditations…[Read more]