Whom may we defame? (63 posts)

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    On another site someone accused Teertha of paedophilia. The reaction was “This is only hearsay; you must not defame the man unless you have first hand evidence.”

    There was also a suggestion of paedophilia at Ko Hsuan school that no one wants to talk about.

    Similarly it was suggested that the therapist Rajan had adopted the name Alan Lowen to infer he was Alexander Lowen, founder of bioenergetics. Again people are uncomfortable discussing this.

    However when it comes to Osho anything goes. He was a drug addict, he killed himself, he lied about being poisoned….all this hearsay, third hand speculation, and no one is concerned about defamation.

    It seems that Osho is the only person sannyasins (ex-sannyasins?) like to defame.

  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 7 years ago:

    Yeah but look at the caliber of those who talk Osho down, defame him.

    Nats sucking the blood of a giant.
    Parasites.

  • Profile picture of Parmartha Parmartha said 7 years ago:

    Alok,
    Alan Lowen was Rajen’s original name before he took sannyas as far as I know.
    On therapist Teertha and Ko Hsuan I have heard these sort of things discussed a fair amount over the years so I dont think it has been suppressed.
    The Ko Hsuan thing was “investigated” by three mothers as far as I know.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    P,
    “Alan Lowen was Rajen’s original name before he took sannyas as far as I know.”

    You don’t think it is reasonable to be suspicious? Too much of a coincidence for me! At that time you could change your legal name without a deed poll. It was very easy. Or you just tell your bank you are trading under the name of Alan Lowen so that cheques in that name are paid into your account.

  • Profile picture of frank frank said 7 years ago:

    i think he was in fact irish and his real name was peter foyle.
    he used to have a sign outside his front door
    “peter foyle therapist”
    he didnt get a lot of customers,as you can imagine in an irish accent,so he changed his name, joined a cult,and his luck changed dramatically…

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    If he did change his name to Alan Lowen because he thought it was good for business, then if anyone paid for a group or session because they thought the group or session was run by the creator of bioenergetics, this would be obtaining money by deception, a serious crime.

  • Profile picture of Parmartha Parmartha said 7 years ago:

    Alok, you look at things like this from a rather Calvinist perspective.
    1) Sleeping with young men and women of one day less than 16 or one day more, dont you think this is a bit of an arbitrary distinction. Our ancestors just took puberty as the time for sex to be initiated. And perhaps they were right.
    2) The right to kill oneself, – well it sure deserves discussion, and discussion frankly for anyone who finds themselves in pain and incapacitated and unable to enjoy a normal life.
    3) And “lies” well there did you never tell a porkie?
    Osho admitted to being a charlatan, and I am sure he liked to annoy people, etc. Of course his silence transended all that talking, etc, but he liked to tell whoopers to annoy people, etc.
    After all, the statement I am now making is a lie. True or false?!

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    Alok, you look at things like this from a rather Calvinist perspective.
    1) Sleeping with young men and women of one day less than 16 or one day more, dont you think this is a bit of an arbitrary distinction. Our ancestors just took puberty as the time for sex to be initiated. And perhaps they were right.

    Well okay. I read recently the the age of consent in England was 13 in the 19th century. But there is some question about the age gap. A 40 year old can pressurise a 14 year old girl in a way that a 17 year old cannot. The age gap is taken into account in some countries in the definition of unlawful sex—small age gap no offence, large age gap…a crime.

    2) The right to kill oneself, – well it sure deserves discussion, and discussion frankly for anyone who finds themselves in pain and incapacitated and unable to enjoy a normal life.

    Yes but you often say “Osho just gave up.” I think this is defamatory in that you have little evidence for this (it is just speculation) and it causes the regard in which the subject is held by others to be lowered (definition of defamation.)

    3) And “lies” well there did you never tell a porkie?
    Very rarely. I really try not to do it. I think the negative spiritual and practical effects of lying are grossly underestimated.

    I do not think Osho used the word charlatan about himself.

    Sorry, too old for undergraduate philosophical paradoxes.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    For example Canada, the age of consent is 16 but

    ….. a 14 or 15 year old can consent to sexual activity with a partner as long as the partner is less than five years older and there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or any other exploitation of the young person. This means that if the partner is 5 years or older than the 14 or 15 year old, any sexual activity will be considered a criminal offence unless it occurs after they are married to each other (in accordance with the “solemnization” of marriage requirements that are established in each province and territory, governing how and when a marriage can be performed, including the minimum age at which someone may marry).

    There is also a “close-in-age” exception for 12 and 13 year olds: a 12 or 13 year old can consent to sexual activity with another young person who is less than two years older and with whom there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or other exploitation of the young person.”

    I would have thought in the case of Teertha, there was a relationship of trust, authority or dependency with the young person.

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    While I am about it what about Parmartha’s statements like “Most sannyasins agree Osho took vast amount of nitrous oxide.”

    Did Parmartha conduct a representative survey of the world’s sannyasins to gain their opinions? How did he know this?

    Again this is defamatory.

  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 7 years ago:

    Alok,
    Have you had personal dealings with Rajen?

  • Profile picture of alokjohn alokjohn said 7 years ago:

    Arpana, no, had nothing to do with him. I just hate dishonesty and exploitation of vulnerable people.

  • Profile picture of Deleted User said 7 years ago:

    I’ve had no personal dealings with exploiters, so I cant comment really, but this sounds personal. and I assume you’ve had some shit deals with group leaders,

    The only character I came across I had a grudge about, of that ilk, was called Willow, who I encountered in the early eighties, and he put a lot of backs up, although was really only a dick with double standards.

  • Profile picture of frank frank said 7 years ago:

    psychotherapy is still riddled with characters trying to shag their younger and vulnerable patients.
    it has been from the beginning of psychoanalysis..
    the human potential guys were no different and the osho therapists carried on from there.
    personally i was never that keen on having younger women,…so you can order them about and tell them whats what,as if you`re their dad, or something…
    it seemed too boring..and oddly old-fashioned.
    i like a fairer fight….
    with a few rolling pins to the head and the odd kick in the nuts…
    a bit of equality,you know…

  • Profile picture of frank frank said 7 years ago:

    and can you name one male guru,eo teacher,therapist etc who has/d a girlfriend or wife older than him….
    they`re usually miles younger.
    why?

    “egolessness” cant handle not being in control?
    strange,that.

    like pt mistleberger said,this probably shows that the egolessness is really an inflation…
    so a bit of backchat from a woman would pop the enlightened bubble….
    seems a bit old-fashioned,dont you think?

    its gotta be time to move on from taking orders from crusty old dinosaurs with more-brittle-than-average male egos..surely?